November 20, 2024 • 48 mins
Nicole Dohmen from Atelier ND Interior in Amsterdam brings a refreshing perspective to the world of interior design, and she's here to share her colorful approach with us. Ever wondered how to create a home that feels truly yours? Nicole reveals the secrets behind her stunning designs, including the one featured on the cover of Elle Decoration.
From the art of using color and pattern to crafting interiors that brim with joy and personality, Nicole emphasizes patience and the organic evolution of design. She also offers insight into the unique challenge of harmonizing bold colors in open-plan homes and how a client's personal style—even through their wardrobe—can guide the design process. Listen as we unpack her techniques for creating spaces that resonate with individuality.
What's the secret to a harmonious home that both partners love? Nicole delves into the intricacies of intuitive design, highlighting the importance of involving both individuals in the process to ensure shared satisfaction. By tapping into subtle cues from quieter clients, she expertly balances desires and bold stylistic choices. Listen out as we discuss one of her client projects - a client that happens to be a very prominent Australian actor!
Our conversation also ventures into the vibrant world of office spaces, advocating for colors that defy stereotypes and reflect personal taste. Whether you're a young professional seeking a sanctuary or a creative spirit yearning for a lively environment, this episode promises to inspire and challenge conventional design norms. Tune in for a dose of creativity that could transform your living or working space into a true expression of joy.
Please do check out her gorgeous work on the Atelier ND Interior website & follow her on instagram @atelier.nd.interior
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast by friends and fellowdesigners me, laLuren Lee, and
me, brie Bantfield, and withsome amazing guests along the
way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style and, with ashared passion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces, we're really excited to
(00:24):
share our insights andinspiration with you.
And if you would love to divein a little bit deeper, I've got
a course called the StyleStudies Essentials where I can
help you create your own dreamhome and, for any designers
listening, I can also help youtoo with your business marketing
, fees, process, all the things,and there is a link down there
(00:44):
in the show notes.
Yes, I've been part of theDesign Society and it's quite
fabulous.
You can also find in the shownotes a link to sign up to be
notified when I release mypre-selected furniture
collections and also some shortcourses on styling and trends.
So cool, brie, love it.
(01:05):
And, brie, I think everyone isgoing to love this episode today
where we talk to Nicole Dohmenof Atelier ND, based in
Amsterdam.
She is an absolute joy to talkto.
I think we could have talkedfor hours and hours because her
style is never boring.
Her spaces are warm, reallypersonal and always with an edge
(01:26):
, and I just love the way sheuses colour and print.
So let's dive in to thisbeautiful episode with the
beautiful Nicole of Atelier ND.
Welcome, nicole, we are sothrilled to be talking with you
all the way from Amsterdam.
It's so cool.
I was just thinking that thefirst time I came across your
(01:49):
projects and it was this coverof Elle Decoration I've got it.
I've got it.
It tells me dead one, yes.
And it just popped off thenewsstand Like it just looked so
gorgeous.
I grabbed it and it's all tornbecause I've always had it on
the top of my little pile ofmagazines.
(02:09):
Of course we've all got, youknow, toddlers and kids, so I've
stuck it back together.
But oh my gosh, it's sogorgeous, so we're super chuffed
to have you here, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you for joining us.
I love that cover.
I love that as well.
I love that as well.
And, of course, when a projectis on the cover, I'm always so
thrilled and it's so cool thateverybody likes it.
So, yeah, that's very nice.
Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And then you know, when I'm looking at the project
and I'm diving in and I'mlooking at all of the images and
sort of almost trying to walkmy way through the house, like
they just pull you in all of theimages and it's just so joyful
the way that you use color andpattern.
It's so expressive and I thinkthat it just stands out.
So, and I always was like, ohgosh, that's a cool designer
(03:00):
over there, like what's going onover there.
So I'm like so interested tolearn more.
So, um, brie and I, we bothlove color as well and pattern
and lean into that.
Um, we have a few things wewould love to learn and love to
know about how you work.
So what I'm really curiousabout is how do you design an
(03:23):
interior to match the client'spersonality?
Because I think I read in thatarticle that you almost had to
say to the client whoa, let'sjust rein it in a bit, so that's
kind of nice for the client.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah gosh, I wish I had to say that well, I think,
um, in Holland, you see, likedifferent interiors, you have
more like all the beige and theneutral tones, or you have the
ones which express color themost.
For this particular client, ofcourse, she's like a Dutch
(03:56):
actress and she has this boldtaste herself.
Her clothes are amazing and Ithink that's the starting point
of every project to see theclient see what they wear, how
they are.
And for this project, I thinkit's very nice when you have
this specific eye for color,like when you look at a painting
(04:17):
, it's not blue and red, butthere is like thousands of
expressions for blue and alsofor the other colors.
And this client loves color somuch.
And the house is like an openplan.
So the difficulty with thehouse was that it all has to
(04:38):
match, especially when it goesaround on one floor, so when you
go from the living, know, fromthe, from the living room, to
the kitchen, to the bathroom.
So I think, uh, that was, inthis case, particularly like
challenging.
And the other thing with coloris that, uh, we took like a lot
(04:58):
of time and I know the processwhen you're an interior designer
.
Everybody wants it, ityesterday, they want it fast, it
has to be done too late.
And I do like it when aninterior it's when you have time
to evolve or you have like thisfirst layout with colors and
maybe in three months, when youare more into the project, you
(05:19):
think, oh, I had like Lila inthe first place, but now I like
I don't know another, you better, or and I like that.
So in this project we took likea lot of time.
We had like sessions almostevery week.
It was like everything was outin the open and I know in the
(05:41):
evening she called me.
I don't know about today, maybeI'm out of the blue and I'm
like okay, but just everythingwas finished.
So I'm a very patient person.
So the end result I think isvery nice in this project, yeah,
and also because of food type.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, Sorry, Nicole, Did you find that with that
evolution you both still wentthe same direction?
Or did you find I know I'vedone the same thing?
That's why I'm nodding a lot?
People can't see me nodding,but I'm nodding.
You know, I'm in a project atthe moment where it's a similar
thing, where they want color andyou have to sort of work out
(06:21):
how to make a full color palettework across different rooms
that are connected, and I thinkthat's a real challenge.
But also when the client has alot of input and you do take it
a bit slower, they alsosometimes have time to change
their minds, which can be okayif you're also kind of on the
same path as them.
But I've also had clients thatchange their mind and kind of go
(06:42):
, actually what about this?
And you're sort of having toreign them in.
Did you find that you were bothkind of going the same
direction?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, I think we did for this project.
We did, and I also said everytime for the colors we have like
time because, like other thingshad to be decided before, kind
of the last bit, right, yeah,but it is true when somebody is
like I don't know, seeing apicture on Pinterest, saying, oh
, I like this too and I'm like,no, no.
(07:12):
So I do try to convince thatthe choices we make are like
good choices and not like quickchoices.
So, yeah, there's a reasonbehind it.
It's a reason behind it.
Yes, so that is.
And of course you can diverse alittle bit with the use or the
tones, but in the first place, Ialso start with two or three
(07:36):
options in the beginning andthere's a natural tendency
already to one color palette.
So I do like it to go in, go onin that direction, not give too
much space, but a little bitspace is okay, because that's
also the creative part you haveand it's, I like, being
challenged as well.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So, yes, yeah, I do like it yeah, I think you,
looking at the space, it doeslook like a lot of thought and
consideration has been taken,because I think it's I don't
know, maybe it's the color tones, they all.
Just there's a few colors, buteverything just works together.
And although I did read in thearticle that you presented
(08:23):
something to the client and thehusband's feedback I don't know
if we can say who it is, but hesaid that it looked like a Katy
Perry kind of experience, whichI thought was really funny.
What did you say?
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, we had like this Jennifer Short short of
fabric, which is very lovelywith the lemons and we use in
his study.
But he says it looks like katieperry on speed and I'm it is
like a compliment it would begood to work out.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and which era of katie Katy Perry are we
talking about these days?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And he said he loved Connor as well.
So eventually he lovedeverything.
Very much Sounds great.
He was a very open person.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, there's, I guess, a little connection,
because I think it's known,isn't it, who we're talking
about.
So the client it's, how do yousay her name?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's the Dutch, one is Curries van Houten.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Ah, yes, yeah, and she's married to our Guy Pearce
and so we're in Melbourne and sothat's a nice little connection
there, because everybody inAustralia probably knows who Guy
Pearce is because he's justbeen a well-known actor
throughout the years.
So that's really lovely and Iguess you know what I find is it
(09:56):
can be a little bit tricky tonavigate that relationship.
You want to get everybody onthe same page.
How do you kind of navigatethat?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Sometimes well, not for this house, but for other
houses.
We do have clients whoparticularly ask can you be like
a mediator between the four ofus?
And I'm like, oh my God, thatcosts extra, like a shrink or
something that costs extra.
That costs extra, like a shrinkor something that costs extra.
When I try, I like very muchlike a harmony and balance.
(10:32):
So, yeah, I do try to feeleverybody's needs.
So I want the husband to bewith the process because
otherwise it's not his house andit's not hers or her house.
So I think that's important toboth talk to them.
And then I get like thisfeeling like, oh, he's like that
(10:53):
kind of person, she's like this, I have to blend it in.
Like, oh, he's like that kindof person, she's like this, I
have to blend it in.
We do some like maybe somemodern sofa over here, but more
like a graphic or more likeprint in the curtains.
I try to balance.
I think that's what I like themost.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, I think that's and it is almost a bit of your
intuition.
Like you, people they use wordsto explain some, some things,
but there's so much of it rightthat you just get a vibe.
I mean, I don't even know howto word it other than that.
But yeah, you sort of.
Even maybe it's a bit of bodylanguage you pick up on or it is
, I don't know yeah yeah, Ithink that's what makes a good
(11:31):
designer too.
Right is just picking up onthose little nuances from a
client, particularly the onethat stays a little bit more
quiet, which is potentiallyoften, um, a husband in the
situation.
You need to try and pick up onhis cues so that you can kind of
feed into that as well, becauseyou're exactly right, they both
need to feel like it's theirhome and not like he's living in
(11:53):
her house, yes, but sometimesthe women have, like I don't
know, more time.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know, not cost, but like, and that's fine
of course.
So no, but they then, yeah, Ihave more sessions with the
women and I think it's veryimportant and I do.
I think I do everythingintuitively.
I use my head when I need to,but when I dive into the project
(12:22):
and start designing, it's withso much intuition, it's just I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So we need to be marriage counselors and psychics
?
Yeah, that's the first twoprerequisites.
Is that?
Yeah, yes, so I'd really becurious to know about how you do
(12:50):
.
You know?
Obviously it's that intuition.
It's hard to to explain, but doyou start with an artwork or is
it a fabric, or is it?
Is it is there a method, or isit just really kind of different
for everyone?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
it is different for every project.
Sometimes, like in a recentproject, they had this really
nice dark green sofa from Etra,like very nice.
So that was the starting point.
So I added like all shades oflike light blue, icy blue and
some really pinkish burgundy topop some color.
(13:30):
So that's sometimes how I start, like when somebody has like
the favorite sofa or gives memore, like oh, I always dreamed
of a kitchen in pink, I don'tknow, and then that's a starting
point.
So yeah, yeah, we all, yeah.
So I think I started withsomething what like a client
(13:53):
gives me like a picture orsomething this is really what I
love, and then I just gobrowsing, like sometimes for
days.
It's sometimes a room.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, it's easy to get lost in it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, sometimes it takes like two days and I don't
get it and I think about it dayand night and then it's like it
clicks Something clicks, itclicks.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I relate to that so much.
Yeah, I have the sameexperience most of the time.
I mean, it's always lovely whenit comes together really
quickly, but sometimes it's niceto have those moments where you
haven't quite nailed it andthen you have that.
This is it.
It comes together as long asthey love it as well.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, that is true.
Sometimes I'm so enthusiasticand they're like no, I don't
like the greece.
Oh my god, I so beautifultogether.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And then, yes, then it's like, well, yeah, so, and
how do you like me so much?
Yeah, go ahead.
Well, I was no, I was justsaying I loved how you said dark
green sofa, icy blue and then apinkish burgundy, and I'm just
like trying to conjure up thoseimages of those colors in my
mind.
So how, how important is colorto your practice?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
oh, I think, um, it was not what I started like six
years ago, like, oh, let's doeverything in color.
It's just like a naturalprocess.
I do tend to use more color andnow everybody asks me about
color.
So it is, I think, especiallymaybe in Holland.
Um, we have, like what Ialready said, like the beige and
(15:31):
the white color, with, you know, the mid-century mix of, I
think also in Australia you seeit a lot, especially a little
bit in the high end market.
People are not using color toomuch because they spend like
more money on the old things andon the projects and on the
(15:51):
items.
The women who I see they arelike sometimes a little bit more
classical sometimes and likethere are a lot who are like
really bold, like I see thatlike more customers who come to
me are more bold and they try tothey're more like the creatives
(16:16):
more.
So I think I have like somesort of niche.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They seem like fun people likeyou know, just your projects.
They're so lively, they're sojoyful.
I'm like, oh my God, the peoplethat live here.
I want to know, like, who arethese cool people?
You know?
It's, yeah, really expressiveyes.
What about in terms of, like,different periods of your life
(16:43):
and color, Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, I think it depends on, like, if you're like
young, you have no kids, maybeyou have like these crazy jobs.
You want your house to be likemore like a sanctuary and maybe
have more like lighter colors,because your house especially in
the city, sometimes it's niceto have like this, like lighter
house.
I think when you're likeexpressive person yourself and
(17:10):
your house is really busy withwhat I say cats, kids I think
you tend to use more color andyou like it more, especially
when you're older.
It's really interesting.
Yeah, yes, I think you havelike more art and you evolved
your taste and you are like okay, like this is my color, this is
(17:30):
the sofa I love and this is theway I like to live.
When I see my own house, it'slike chaos.
It's we are like a combinedfamily with four teenagers.
It's so busy all the time, somy house is not perfect at all.
It's like chaos and I like itbecause it's how I am.
I don't want to live like ahouse.
(17:52):
Yes, so that depends on everykind of period you're in like
period of time.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I do think you do gain more confidence, don't you,
as you get older, with colorand know yourself more.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That is true In the beginning, you want to have
everything safe and you want tohave it perfect.
I think when you're our age,it's like I love it.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I try to choose and, like you know, like just do it,
I feel like we care more aboutwhat makes us happy and less
about what makes somethingperfect.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That is so true.
Yeah, that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And isn't it interesting?
Yeah, it's life and it's livingand it's relaxed and just enjoy
.
It doesn't have to be alluptight, but it's interesting.
Um, when you think about youknow, when you're a kid and kids
rooms, they can be bright andcolorful.
And then, for some reason,we've gone into this sort of
scared era I I don't know whatyou mean, but it's by our first
(18:58):
investment sofa where we're like, oh my gosh, it's just got to
be grey because that's going togo with everything.
And then we go after a fewyears.
You know what?
Let's just go for it.
I've always wanted to have apink sofa or a pink kitchen, as
you said.
So, yeah, it's interesting,isn't it?
You can kind of go full circle.
And why do we suppress that?
(19:19):
Why do we suppress all of those?
You know we love color as kidsand then for some reason it's
not serious enough or I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yes, I think it's.
I think that it is.
I think that's the point is,maybe you have like a just
grown-up house and you wanteverything because the sofa is
expensive and you're like, okay,it has to last for like 10
years, and of course I thinkabout that exactly the same way.
But I think when you have thecolor in your house, your
(19:50):
experience, it like suits youand I think it gives you these
certain vibes which I love somuch.
I love that too, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Oh, yeah, I liked how you were describing those
colours.
And also we're so limited inthe words that we have to
describe colour, and sometimesit's really hard to remember
colour as well, like in yourmind, if you try to picture that
colour, but then you actuallysee it and you're it.
You're like, oh gosh, I reallythought that was more red,
really flat.
(20:20):
Yeah, it's hard to capture that, that memory of a color.
So, yeah, I guess I'm curious,how do you communicate color to
clients?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
um, yeah, we do start off with a presentation and I
have like everything on thetables around me and we walk it
through.
I show them the colors, wecheck in different lights, like
in the outside of our companyand inside with daylight and, of
course, an artificial light.
Um, I think I'm a veryenthusiastic person, so I don't
(20:54):
know, I feed it, so I try toexpress it as much as I can yeah
and um.
I also think that the firstfeeling the customer has like
sometimes it's like I had likeone time this purple bedroom and
she said, oh, I don't likepurple, and it was like I
thought it was so cool so I hadto do it all over again, and
(21:20):
that's why I also make differentoptions.
Sometimes I work out two,everything, two options for like
a room, and then I can say likea little bit, we can go this
way or we can go that way, andif you like this I will do for
the next session, I will likedeepen into it more and I then
(21:41):
there comes like an end result.
But for me I think like 3D, soI always see like pictures and
not like words.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I try to express that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, it is hard, isn't it?
And sometimes, you know, Iremember a project a few years
ago and I sort of did every room.
It was like a federation homehere, which means you sort of
have a central hallway withrooms coming off it, so it
really lends itself to differentcoloured rooms in each
different colours in each room.
So, yeah, I just get in my ownlittle zone.
(22:20):
I'm like this is going to bethis colour and then this is
going to be that colour, and theclient was like, okay, okay, it
wasn't.
Until at the end of the projectshe was like, oh my gosh, I was
so scared.
I'm so glad that we did it,though I was like I didn't even
know.
You were scared because itdoesn't seem like a big deal to
me, sometimes like, yes, youknow, when you say purple
bedroom, a client's thinking oh,my god, oh.
(22:41):
But when you actually say, well, what kind of purple?
And like it sounds full on.
But sometimes it's not like asmuch as you think.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, that is true, and of course I use moods and I
try to find the perfect pictureto express what I think or what
I feel.
But the nicest, no, what I likethe most is then is then, okay,
you build your house and it'slike a rebuilding and it took
like a year or months andeverything is white.
(23:13):
And then the painter comes andcolors like the pink really
actually on the wall.
They all call me.
It's like, oh my god, it's toopink, it's too harsh, it's too.
You say no, no, no, no, please,please, please, stay there.
And then it will all cometogether with the furniture,
with the fabrics, but they are,I think, they are like afraid,
(23:37):
and then I, you know, convincethem.
And then somebody says thesister or the husband or the
mother or friend or the painterlike oh my god, my God, should
you really do that pink?
And yeah, I don't like that.
I'm like just try to standbehind all the choices and it's
going to be so beautiful.
(23:58):
And when everything comestogether, it's like you see the
relief, like oh my God.
But it's, in the end, all abouttrust and they have to trust me
and the process and everythingtogether, and also try to be
bold.
When somebody else comes intothe room and says so wow, this
is pink, you just say yes, Ilike it and it's my choice.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh, I love that and you know what.
It does take a small element ofbravery, doesn't it?
Because most rooms are not pink, let's face it, they're white.
No, that's true, yeah, that istrue, yeah, and it's not for
them, it's for you.
And if you walk into your roomand it's pink I have a pink
bedroom it makes me feel sohappy, it's so nice, so it does
(24:44):
feel good and it's reallyfulfilling.
And when you can sort ofexpress, you know yourself in
your space.
And talking about pink rooms,your office oh my gosh, I've
drooled all over the photosonline of your slime office, the
pink shelving and it's, youknow, got all of the Pierre Frey
(25:04):
books and all the beautifulfabric books in there and it
looks like such an inspiringspace to design In your office.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You can go, of course , more loudly than other houses
or the houses, but when peopleenter here, they all say and
that's not about the color, butthey express color because we
have like black and white.
You don't see it now, but maybeyou can see it later on our
Instagram.
They all say it's so cozy andnice here and atmosphere, and I
want to stay here and I thinkthat's nice about also like an
(25:42):
office, because we spent so manyhours here.
Why is it all white and gray?
I mean, when they are here,they experience the office, they
experience how it feels to usethe color we have like this
peach kitchen.
We have everything is thislilac color?
It's so lovely.
Even all the men like it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yes, but they say like maybe the lilac is too
bright for my house, but they doexperience color here, like how
it feels to be embraced bycolor.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
And isn't that funny, even that?
You just said that.
You know, even the men like it.
It's so cultural, isn't it howwe think about color.
Oh, am I allowed to like pink?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
you know these guys that, yeah, so that and yeah, I
think there are so many uhcolors.
Uh, they say, oh, pink is likegirlish, blue is for boys.
I don't know uh small rooms,don't uh need lighter colors?
And I don't know Small roomsdon't need lighter colors.
(26:49):
I don't think that way.
I think color is just you likeit.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast by friends and fellowdesigners me, laLuren Lee, and
me, brie Bantfield, and withsome amazing guests along the
way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style and, with ashared passion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces, we're really excited to
(00:24):
share our insights andinspiration with you.
And if you would love to divein a little bit deeper, I've got
a course called the StyleStudies Essentials where I can
help you create your own dreamhome and, for any designers
listening, I can also help youtoo with your business marketing
, fees, process, all the things,and there is a link down there
(00:44):
in the show notes.
Yes, I've been part of theDesign Society and it's quite
fabulous.
You can also find in the shownotes a link to sign up to be
notified when I release mypre-selected furniture
collections and also some shortcourses on styling and trends.
So cool, brie, love it.
(01:05):
And, brie, I think everyone isgoing to love this episode today
where we talk to Nicole Dohmenof Atelier ND, based in
Amsterdam.
She is an absolute joy to talkto.
I think we could have talkedfor hours and hours because her
style is never boring.
Her spaces are warm, reallypersonal and always with an edge
(01:26):
, and I just love the way sheuses colour and print.
So let's dive in to thisbeautiful episode with the
beautiful Nicole of Atelier ND.
Welcome, nicole, we are sothrilled to be talking with you
all the way from Amsterdam.
It's so cool.
I was just thinking that thefirst time I came across your
(01:49):
projects and it was this coverof Elle Decoration I've got it.
I've got it.
It tells me dead one, yes.
And it just popped off thenewsstand Like it just looked so
gorgeous.
I grabbed it and it's all tornbecause I've always had it on
the top of my little pile ofmagazines.
(02:09):
Of course we've all got, youknow, toddlers and kids, so I've
stuck it back together.
But oh my gosh, it's sogorgeous, so we're super chuffed
to have you here, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you for joining us.
I love that cover.
I love that as well.
I love that as well.
And, of course, when a projectis on the cover, I'm always so
thrilled and it's so cool thateverybody likes it.
So, yeah, that's very nice.
Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And then you know, when I'm looking at the project
and I'm diving in and I'mlooking at all of the images and
sort of almost trying to walkmy way through the house, like
they just pull you in all of theimages and it's just so joyful
the way that you use color andpattern.
It's so expressive and I thinkthat it just stands out.
So, and I always was like, ohgosh, that's a cool designer
(03:00):
over there, like what's going onover there.
So I'm like so interested tolearn more.
So, um, brie and I, we bothlove color as well and pattern
and lean into that.
Um, we have a few things wewould love to learn and love to
know about how you work.
So what I'm really curiousabout is how do you design an
(03:23):
interior to match the client'spersonality?
Because I think I read in thatarticle that you almost had to
say to the client whoa, let'sjust rein it in a bit, so that's
kind of nice for the client.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah gosh, I wish I had to say that well, I think,
um, in Holland, you see, likedifferent interiors, you have
more like all the beige and theneutral tones, or you have the
ones which express color themost.
For this particular client, ofcourse, she's like a Dutch
(03:56):
actress and she has this boldtaste herself.
Her clothes are amazing and Ithink that's the starting point
of every project to see theclient see what they wear, how
they are.
And for this project, I thinkit's very nice when you have
this specific eye for color,like when you look at a painting
(04:17):
, it's not blue and red, butthere is like thousands of
expressions for blue and alsofor the other colors.
And this client loves color somuch.
And the house is like an openplan.
So the difficulty with thehouse was that it all has to
(04:38):
match, especially when it goesaround on one floor, so when you
go from the living, know, fromthe, from the living room, to
the kitchen, to the bathroom.
So I think, uh, that was, inthis case, particularly like
challenging.
And the other thing with coloris that, uh, we took like a lot
(04:58):
of time and I know the processwhen you're an interior designer
.
Everybody wants it, ityesterday, they want it fast, it
has to be done too late.
And I do like it when aninterior it's when you have time
to evolve or you have like thisfirst layout with colors and
maybe in three months, when youare more into the project, you
(05:19):
think, oh, I had like Lila inthe first place, but now I like
I don't know another, you better, or and I like that.
So in this project we took likea lot of time.
We had like sessions almostevery week.
It was like everything was outin the open and I know in the
(05:41):
evening she called me.
I don't know about today, maybeI'm out of the blue and I'm
like okay, but just everythingwas finished.
So I'm a very patient person.
So the end result I think isvery nice in this project, yeah,
and also because of food type.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, Sorry, Nicole, Did you find that with that
evolution you both still wentthe same direction?
Or did you find I know I'vedone the same thing?
That's why I'm nodding a lot?
People can't see me nodding,but I'm nodding.
You know, I'm in a project atthe moment where it's a similar
thing, where they want color andyou have to sort of work out
(06:21):
how to make a full color palettework across different rooms
that are connected, and I thinkthat's a real challenge.
But also when the client has alot of input and you do take it
a bit slower, they alsosometimes have time to change
their minds, which can be okayif you're also kind of on the
same path as them.
But I've also had clients thatchange their mind and kind of go
(06:42):
, actually what about this?
And you're sort of having toreign them in.
Did you find that you were bothkind of going the same
direction?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yes, I think we did for this project.
We did, and I also said everytime for the colors we have like
time because, like other thingshad to be decided before, kind
of the last bit, right, yeah,but it is true when somebody is
like I don't know, seeing apicture on Pinterest, saying, oh
, I like this too and I'm like,no, no.
(07:12):
So I do try to convince thatthe choices we make are like
good choices and not like quickchoices.
So, yeah, there's a reasonbehind it.
It's a reason behind it.
Yes, so that is.
And of course you can diverse alittle bit with the use or the
tones, but in the first place, Ialso start with two or three
(07:36):
options in the beginning andthere's a natural tendency
already to one color palette.
So I do like it to go in, go onin that direction, not give too
much space, but a little bitspace is okay, because that's
also the creative part you haveand it's, I like, being
challenged as well.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So, yes, yeah, I do like it yeah, I think you,
looking at the space, it doeslook like a lot of thought and
consideration has been taken,because I think it's I don't
know, maybe it's the color tones, they all.
Just there's a few colors, buteverything just works together.
And although I did read in thearticle that you presented
(08:23):
something to the client and thehusband's feedback I don't know
if we can say who it is, but hesaid that it looked like a Katy
Perry kind of experience, whichI thought was really funny.
What did you say?
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, we had like this Jennifer Short short of
fabric, which is very lovelywith the lemons and we use in
his study.
But he says it looks like katieperry on speed and I'm it is
like a compliment it would begood to work out.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and which era of katie Katy Perry are we
talking about these days?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And he said he loved Connor as well.
So eventually he lovedeverything.
Very much Sounds great.
He was a very open person.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, there's, I guess, a little connection,
because I think it's known,isn't it, who we're talking
about.
So the client it's, how do yousay her name?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's the Dutch, one is Curries van Houten.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Ah, yes, yeah, and she's married to our Guy Pearce
and so we're in Melbourne and sothat's a nice little connection
there, because everybody inAustralia probably knows who Guy
Pearce is because he's justbeen a well-known actor
throughout the years.
So that's really lovely and Iguess you know what I find is it
(09:56):
can be a little bit tricky tonavigate that relationship.
You want to get everybody onthe same page.
How do you kind of navigatethat?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Sometimes well, not for this house, but for other
houses.
We do have clients whoparticularly ask can you be like
a mediator between the four ofus?
And I'm like, oh my God, thatcosts extra, like a shrink or
something that costs extra.
That costs extra, like a shrinkor something that costs extra.
When I try, I like very muchlike a harmony and balance.
(10:32):
So, yeah, I do try to feeleverybody's needs.
So I want the husband to bewith the process because
otherwise it's not his house andit's not hers or her house.
So I think that's important toboth talk to them.
And then I get like thisfeeling like, oh, he's like that
(10:53):
kind of person, she's like this, I have to blend it in.
Like, oh, he's like that kindof person, she's like this, I
have to blend it in.
We do some like maybe somemodern sofa over here, but more
like a graphic or more likeprint in the curtains.
I try to balance.
I think that's what I like themost.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, I think that's and it is almost a bit of your
intuition.
Like you, people they use wordsto explain some, some things,
but there's so much of it rightthat you just get a vibe.
I mean, I don't even know howto word it other than that.
But yeah, you sort of.
Even maybe it's a bit of bodylanguage you pick up on or it is
, I don't know yeah yeah, Ithink that's what makes a good
(11:31):
designer too.
Right is just picking up onthose little nuances from a
client, particularly the onethat stays a little bit more
quiet, which is potentiallyoften, um, a husband in the
situation.
You need to try and pick up onhis cues so that you can kind of
feed into that as well, becauseyou're exactly right, they both
need to feel like it's theirhome and not like he's living in
(11:53):
her house, yes, but sometimesthe women have, like I don't
know, more time.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know, not cost, but like, and that's fine
of course.
So no, but they then, yeah, Ihave more sessions with the
women and I think it's veryimportant and I do.
I think I do everythingintuitively.
I use my head when I need to,but when I dive into the project
(12:22):
and start designing, it's withso much intuition, it's just I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So we need to be marriage counselors and psychics
?
Yeah, that's the first twoprerequisites.
Is that?
Yeah, yes, so I'd really becurious to know about how you do
(12:50):
.
You know?
Obviously it's that intuition.
It's hard to to explain, but doyou start with an artwork or is
it a fabric, or is it?
Is it is there a method, or isit just really kind of different
for everyone?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
it is different for every project.
Sometimes, like in a recentproject, they had this really
nice dark green sofa from Etra,like very nice.
So that was the starting point.
So I added like all shades oflike light blue, icy blue and
some really pinkish burgundy topop some color.
(13:30):
So that's sometimes how I start, like when somebody has like
the favorite sofa or gives memore, like oh, I always dreamed
of a kitchen in pink, I don'tknow, and then that's a starting
point.
So yeah, yeah, we all, yeah.
So I think I started withsomething what like a client
(13:53):
gives me like a picture orsomething this is really what I
love, and then I just gobrowsing, like sometimes for
days.
It's sometimes a room.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, it's easy to get lost in it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, sometimes it takes like two days and I don't
get it and I think about it dayand night and then it's like it
clicks Something clicks, itclicks.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I relate to that so much.
Yeah, I have the sameexperience most of the time.
I mean, it's always lovely whenit comes together really
quickly, but sometimes it's niceto have those moments where you
haven't quite nailed it andthen you have that.
This is it.
It comes together as long asthey love it as well.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, that is true.
Sometimes I'm so enthusiasticand they're like no, I don't
like the greece.
Oh my god, I so beautifultogether.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
And then, yes, then it's like, well, yeah, so, and
how do you like me so much?
Yeah, go ahead.
Well, I was no, I was justsaying I loved how you said dark
green sofa, icy blue and then apinkish burgundy, and I'm just
like trying to conjure up thoseimages of those colors in my
mind.
So how, how important is colorto your practice?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
oh, I think, um, it was not what I started like six
years ago, like, oh, let's doeverything in color.
It's just like a naturalprocess.
I do tend to use more color andnow everybody asks me about
color.
So it is, I think, especiallymaybe in Holland.
Um, we have, like what Ialready said, like the beige and
(15:31):
the white color, with, you know, the mid-century mix of, I
think also in Australia you seeit a lot, especially a little
bit in the high end market.
People are not using color toomuch because they spend like
more money on the old things andon the projects and on the
(15:51):
items.
The women who I see they arelike sometimes a little bit more
classical sometimes and likethere are a lot who are like
really bold, like I see thatlike more customers who come to
me are more bold and they try tothey're more like the creatives
(16:16):
more.
So I think I have like somesort of niche.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They seem like fun people likeyou know, just your projects.
They're so lively, they're sojoyful.
I'm like, oh my God, the peoplethat live here.
I want to know, like, who arethese cool people?
You know?
It's, yeah, really expressiveyes.
What about in terms of, like,different periods of your life
(16:43):
and color, Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, I think it depends on, like, if you're like
young, you have no kids, maybeyou have like these crazy jobs.
You want your house to be likemore like a sanctuary and maybe
have more like lighter colors,because your house especially in
the city, sometimes it's niceto have like this, like lighter
house.
I think when you're likeexpressive person yourself and
(17:10):
your house is really busy withwhat I say cats, kids I think
you tend to use more color andyou like it more, especially
when you're older.
It's really interesting.
Yeah, yes, I think you havelike more art and you evolved
your taste and you are like okay, like this is my color, this is
(17:30):
the sofa I love and this is theway I like to live.
When I see my own house, it'slike chaos.
It's we are like a combinedfamily with four teenagers.
It's so busy all the time, somy house is not perfect at all.
It's like chaos and I like itbecause it's how I am.
I don't want to live like ahouse.
(17:52):
Yes, so that depends on everykind of period you're in like
period of time.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I do think you do gain more confidence, don't you,
as you get older, with colorand know yourself more.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
That is true In the beginning, you want to have
everything safe and you want tohave it perfect.
I think when you're our age,it's like I love it.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I try to choose and, like you know, like just do it,
I feel like we care more aboutwhat makes us happy and less
about what makes somethingperfect.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That is so true.
Yeah, that's what I love.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
And isn't it interesting?
Yeah, it's life and it's livingand it's relaxed and just enjoy
.
It doesn't have to be alluptight, but it's interesting.
Um, when you think about youknow, when you're a kid and kids
rooms, they can be bright andcolorful.
And then, for some reason,we've gone into this sort of
scared era I I don't know whatyou mean, but it's by our first
(18:58):
investment sofa where we're like, oh my gosh, it's just got to
be grey because that's going togo with everything.
And then we go after a fewyears.
You know what?
Let's just go for it.
I've always wanted to have apink sofa or a pink kitchen, as
you said.
So, yeah, it's interesting,isn't it?
You can kind of go full circle.
And why do we suppress that?
(19:19):
Why do we suppress all of those?
You know we love color as kidsand then for some reason it's
not serious enough or I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yes, I think it's.
I think that it is.
I think that's the point is,maybe you have like a just
grown-up house and you wanteverything because the sofa is
expensive and you're like, okay,it has to last for like 10
years, and of course I thinkabout that exactly the same way.
But I think when you have thecolor in your house, your
(19:50):
experience, it like suits youand I think it gives you these
certain vibes which I love somuch.
I love that too, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Oh, yeah, I liked how you were describing those
colours.
And also we're so limited inthe words that we have to
describe colour, and sometimesit's really hard to remember
colour as well, like in yourmind, if you try to picture that
colour, but then you actuallysee it and you're it.
You're like, oh gosh, I reallythought that was more red,
really flat.
(20:20):
Yeah, it's hard to capture that, that memory of a color.
So, yeah, I guess I'm curious,how do you communicate color to
clients?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
um, yeah, we do start off with a presentation and I
have like everything on thetables around me and we walk it
through.
I show them the colors, wecheck in different lights, like
in the outside of our companyand inside with daylight and, of
course, an artificial light.
Um, I think I'm a veryenthusiastic person, so I don't
(20:54):
know, I feed it, so I try toexpress it as much as I can yeah
and um.
I also think that the firstfeeling the customer has like
sometimes it's like I had likeone time this purple bedroom and
she said, oh, I don't likepurple, and it was like I
thought it was so cool so I hadto do it all over again, and
(21:20):
that's why I also make differentoptions.
Sometimes I work out two,everything, two options for like
a room, and then I can say likea little bit, we can go this
way or we can go that way, andif you like this I will do for
the next session, I will likedeepen into it more and I then
(21:41):
there comes like an end result.
But for me I think like 3D, soI always see like pictures and
not like words.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I try to express that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, it is hard, isn't it?
And sometimes, you know, Iremember a project a few years
ago and I sort of did every room.
It was like a federation homehere, which means you sort of
have a central hallway withrooms coming off it, so it
really lends itself to differentcoloured rooms in each
different colours in each room.
So, yeah, I just get in my ownlittle zone.
(22:20):
I'm like this is going to bethis colour and then this is
going to be that colour, and theclient was like, okay, okay, it
wasn't.
Until at the end of the projectshe was like, oh my gosh, I was
so scared.
I'm so glad that we did it,though I was like I didn't even
know.
You were scared because itdoesn't seem like a big deal to
me, sometimes like, yes, youknow, when you say purple
bedroom, a client's thinking oh,my god, oh.
(22:41):
But when you actually say, well, what kind of purple?
And like it sounds full on.
But sometimes it's not like asmuch as you think.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, that is true, and of course I use moods and I
try to find the perfect pictureto express what I think or what
I feel.
But the nicest, no, what I likethe most is then is then, okay,
you build your house and it'slike a rebuilding and it took
like a year or months andeverything is white.
(23:13):
And then the painter comes andcolors like the pink really
actually on the wall.
They all call me.
It's like, oh my god, it's toopink, it's too harsh, it's too.
You say no, no, no, no, please,please, please, stay there.
And then it will all cometogether with the furniture,
with the fabrics, but they are,I think, they are like afraid,
(23:37):
and then I, you know, convincethem.
And then somebody says thesister or the husband or the
mother or friend or the painterlike oh my god, my God, should
you really do that pink?
And yeah, I don't like that.
I'm like just try to standbehind all the choices and it's
going to be so beautiful.
(23:58):
And when everything comestogether, it's like you see the
relief, like oh my God.
But it's, in the end, all abouttrust and they have to trust me
and the process and everythingtogether, and also try to be
bold.
When somebody else comes intothe room and says so wow, this
is pink, you just say yes, Ilike it and it's my choice.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh, I love that and you know what.
It does take a small element ofbravery, doesn't it?
Because most rooms are not pink, let's face it, they're white.
No, that's true, yeah, that istrue, yeah, and it's not for
them, it's for you.
And if you walk into your roomand it's pink I have a pink
bedroom it makes me feel sohappy, it's so nice, so it does
(24:44):
feel good and it's reallyfulfilling.
And when you can sort ofexpress, you know yourself in
your space.
And talking about pink rooms,your office oh my gosh, I've
drooled all over the photosonline of your slime office, the
pink shelving and it's, youknow, got all of the Pierre Frey
(25:04):
books and all the beautifulfabric books in there and it
looks like such an inspiringspace to design In your office.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You can go, of course , more loudly than other houses
or the houses, but when peopleenter here, they all say and
that's not about the color, butthey express color because we
have like black and white.
You don't see it now, but maybeyou can see it later on our
Instagram.
They all say it's so cozy andnice here and atmosphere, and I
want to stay here and I thinkthat's nice about also like an
(25:42):
office, because we spent so manyhours here.
Why is it all white and gray?
I mean, when they are here,they experience the office, they
experience how it feels to usethe color we have like this
peach kitchen.
We have everything is thislilac color?
It's so lovely.
Even all the men like it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yes, but they say like maybe the lilac is too
bright for my house, but they doexperience color here, like how
it feels to be embraced bycolor.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
And isn't that funny, even that?
You just said that.
You know, even the men like it.
It's so cultural, isn't it howwe think about color.
Oh, am I allowed to like pink?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
you know these guys that, yeah, so that and yeah, I
think there are so many uhcolors.
Uh, they say, oh, pink is likegirlish, blue is for boys.
I don't know uh small rooms,don't uh need lighter colors?
And I don't know Small roomsdon't need lighter colors.
(26:49):
I don't think that way.
I think color is just you likeit.
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