August 20, 2025 • 33 mins
The Danish concept of "hygge" (pronounced hoo-ga) has captivated the world for good reason—it's the secret to creating spaces that nurture wellbeing rather than just looking pretty. Lauren and Bree dive deep into what makes a home truly feel good, challenging the sterile white aesthetic that has dominated Australian interiors for too long.
Drawing from their design expertise and personal experiences, they explore how our spaces profoundly shape our behaviour, mental state, and capacity for connection. While Australia boasts the largest homes in the world, a surprising 15% of Australians report feeling lonely—suggesting our cavernous houses might be doing more harm than good.
The conversation reveals four essential elements that create that coveted hygge feeling: thoughtful colour choices beyond stark white, layered lighting that creates intimate pools rather than harsh overhead illumination, genuine comfort (both perceived and actual), and appropriate scale that fosters coziness rather than isolation. Lauren shares a transformative experience at Stockholm's Ett Hem hotel designed by Ilse Crawford that perfectly embodies these principles.
What makes this discussion particularly valuable is the practical advice woven throughout. You don't need a complete renovation to bring hygge into your home—sometimes it's as simple as adding soft textiles, introducing varied lighting sources, or creating dedicated gathering spaces where family naturally comes together.
Whether you're building, renovating, or simply wanting to enhance your current space, this episode offers a fresh perspective on how thoughtful design directly contributes to health and happiness. Because ultimately, your home should make you feel good, not just look good.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me, brie
Banfield and me, lauren Lee,with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style, with a sharedpassion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights and inspiration with
(00:22):
you.
And what are we going to talkabout today, lauren?
Well, actually on the weekend Iwent to Adelaide, radelaide.
You mean, yeah, I love it, Ilove it.
I just love the fact that it'sso traffic friendly compared to
(00:44):
Melbourne oh my God, most placesare at the moment.
It's such a novelty, but I wasthere for the KBDI conference.
So every year it's the Kitchenand Bathroom Association,
Kitchen and Bathroom DesignAssociation or something like
that.
I don't know exactly what itstands for, but I was pretty
(01:05):
yeah, I was pretty honouredactually to be invited to speak
at their conference and what wetalked about was wellbeing and
touched on the concept of hyggeas well.
So I was like you know what?
I really think that we haven'teven talked about that in our
podcast yet and it might be afun topic to dive into and I
love trying to say the word Ithink that's how you say it, I'm
(01:30):
pretty sure, but please correctus if we're saying it wrong.
I remember when that firststarted to be sort of thrown
around that word, and everyone'slike what, hagi, higi, hug, and
then what?
And then we find out it's hugoand we're like, ah, none of us
worked that out.
No, was way off.
(01:50):
Yeah, so I guess the thing withthat concept of hygge, it was
like, I don't know, maybe 10 orso years ago there was like a
book that came out and it wasjust sold in every bookshop.
Yeah, yeah, and I think it wasliterally just called that,
wasn't it?
Or something with the tagline,but I feel like that was the
(02:10):
name of the book.
Yeah, I think there was likeone well-known one that came out
and then a few others were likeoh, let's bring out a book as
well, because this is like awhole thing.
And I think when I think of theword hygge, what comes to mind
is like warm, fuzzy socks, hotchocolate, open fire, you know
this kind of thing.
But I think today, hopefully,we'll dive a little bit deeper
(02:32):
into what it can mean for how welive, and related to interior
design Makes sense, I suppose.
So what is hygge, I guess, is agood place to start right.
Yeah, what?
How do we break it down?
Well, I think hygge is not justa look, it's more a feeling,
(02:53):
and I think you know you and Iare pretty aligned about how a
space feels is really important.
You know, we we love talkingabout color and you know
different kind of style,directions and things, but at
the end of the day, I think it'sjust really important to really
always come back to how a spacefeels, absolutely.
I think that's what our aim isusually, isn't it?
(03:14):
When we work with anyone on anyspace, or even if I go back to
creating content and creatingimages, it always comes back to
how we want someone to feelabout something.
So, yeah, it's very connectedto feeling and not just
prettiness, exactly, yeah.
And when I started to thinkabout this concept of, you know,
(03:35):
wellness in our spaces, Ilooked up who were the happiest
people in the world andapparently it's Finland.
They've been number one forquite a few years, yeah, and
those other Nordic countries arepretty close behind as well.
And it's things like the GDP,life expectancy, governance and
things like that.
But it's also social support,generosity and freedom to make
(03:58):
choices.
And when I started to thinkabout that.
It's feeling connection andtrust.
They have a really high senseof trust in things and a sense
of safety, and I think that'swhat spaces can nurture those
things.
In fact, we talk about that allthe time.
Like you know, in trendforecasting, when there's a lot
(04:20):
of uncertainty in the world, wedo talk about this kind of like
cocooning effect and wanting tobe somewhere safe, and that home
is this safety.
We try not to use that wordbecause it sounds like something
a bit scary is going on, and Ithink it is.
It's like it's really scary outthere.
So home is this haven where wewant to escape to, where we can
be completely ourselves, besurrounded by things that make
(04:41):
us feel good, and then that'swhat makes us feel safe.
So there's all those thingsthat you know you have to tick
the boxes for right, and youknow a space that feels yourself
like is so important.
But also you want to feelyourself in your home, but you
also want your guests to feelthemselves in your home too.
And I mean, I feel like when Ithink about that in the first
(05:05):
episode or the second episode ofand Just Like that, remember
when Carrie is like, oh my gosh,my husband's just died, I need
to sell that apartment, yeah.
And she goes and she looks atthis penthouse and it's the best
penthouse on offer in New Yorkthe bright white one.
Amazing, exactly.
So there she is, standing atthis bright white kitchen, stark
(05:29):
white, shiny materials.
But there she is, thiscolourful person with a hat,
with a scarf and everything.
She's not herself.
All the layers and all thefeels and all the tactility that
she has, yeah, yeah, all herpersonality, and I feel like
that's a lot of homes inaustralia, these bright white
spaces.
I mean, I'm going to be bangingon about this until I die.
(05:50):
I think probably me too.
I just don't feel like you canbe yourself in a place, in a
space that feels so sterile andjust no texture, no color.
It does not, does not feelrelaxing, it's not.
It's like living in a warehouseor something that's overly lit
and designed for work orsomething.
(06:11):
How is it relaxing?
I don't know how it can be.
I know I was really worried.
So I've just moved house and,as you know, I had painted a few
of my rooms in my last place Irent and I'm moving now into
another white space and I was soscared.
I would feel like like that,like, just like, really it does
affect my happiness 100%.
(06:32):
It sounds like this sort ofsuperficial thing and it's
definitely not.
It's been okay because thelight's really beautiful in here
and they actually have drapes,so there's some tactility and
softness, and then I've got allof my stuff in there, obviously,
which changes it and brings allthe color.
But there's this fear for me ofliving in like soulless spaces
and going around to find a newhome.
(06:52):
It reminded me how many awfulplaces there are out there.
When I say awful, like yes,there's a lot of issues with
functionality, and I'm nottalking about something being
old or even something beingbrand new, it's just
soullessness.
It's kind of soulless feelingwhen you walk into a space and I
know you bring a lot into ahome when you move into it the
(07:13):
shell itself can do so muchalready for you, right, agree?
And you know, if you have aspace like that Kerry Bradshaw,
in that stark white space, it'slike even her presence looks
messy.
Even a phone on the islandbench looks messy, like even the
smallest thing.
You try to make it feel at homebut there's nowhere for
(07:33):
anything to properly live.
It's just like a gallery spacewhere everything is sort of
heightenly on display and looksmessy, so I'm just not about it,
nowhere to hide.
Yeah, exactly, you're under thespotlight.
And when I was looking into thistopic a bit more, I was looking
into some statistics on youknow that happiness index and I
(07:54):
found out that 15% ofAustralians reported loneliness
in 2023, according to the HILDAsurvey.
And social isolation isdirectly linked to poor mental
and physical health.
So I'm like, okay, we know thatthere's like a loneliness
epidemic.
It's no joke, it's serious.
How can our environment helpwith that?
(08:14):
How can we feel more nurturedand connected in our spaces?
And then, when you look at thesize of an Australian home, it's
the largest homes in the world.
They're 214 square meters.
We're so disconnected, even inour own home, and I actually
feel like that's really so wrongon so many levels that we're
building houses this big whenwe're all off on our own little,
(08:38):
in our own rooms, in our ownquarters, in our own home.
We also have a housing crisis,don't we?
So I mean, I know there's a lotof talk about how to fix that
and I guess a lot of dual-ocsort of situations happening.
That's what I've moved into herein a townhouse, but there was
this funny sense of when in myolder home it was very big and
(09:01):
it was exactly what you'retalking about.
It was a sort of spec buildwith four bedrooms, a study, a
living area, a meals area, adining room, another living area
upstairs and another like kidsroom at the back, and it was,
and I didn't, I didn't sort ofchoose it for those reasons.
It's just ended up happening tobe the best place for us to go
at the time.
But I always had this weirdfeeling about it being too big
(09:24):
and even like so, my, the mainbedroom, was big enough for me
to have my queen size bed,bedside tables, a whole sofa, a
big coffee table, another chair.
It was a living room.
And then you walked through thewalk-in robe.
I do I do, slightly miss mywalk-in robe, though that's
practical.
(09:44):
That's practical.
That's storage.
I did use that.
Well, I probably used thatbetter than I did my bedroom
Into a bathroom which had a bathand a separate toilet and a big
, big shower, and it was like Icould have probably did dance in
there many times, pirouetting,you know, with my arms out.
I would bet my life on it thatyou danced in that bathroom,
because when we stayed in thatParis hotel, you guys, the music
(10:09):
, the singing, it was the mostjoyful thing.
Yeah, there's probably not aroom I haven't danced in in any
of the houses but it was just.
It was sort of this kind ofyucky feeling of excess and I
like it's nice to have bigspaces.
But to the point where before Ihad to move, weirdly, before I
was told that we had to move, wedid have to.
(10:31):
It wasn't a choice at the timeand that's just because moving
is awful I had these weirdfeelings of feeling almost
suffocated in a house that wasso big I can't explain it.
I think it would be more aboutit being small, but it was just.
It was this feeling of kind ofexcess and that I didn't need it
and it was like bothering methat I had all this space.
That was kind of just likewasteful.
(10:51):
There was this wasteful feeling.
I don't know we're getting offtrack, but yeah, I think it's
like you sort of feel this.
I can see how I would feel itwas.
Like one night there's usuallysomeone here, but you know, my
kids are pretty grown up and allthe teenagers and grown up.
So sometimes, very rarely, I'mat home and no one's there, and
(11:11):
when it happened, it was just meand the dog and we would be
like using one tiny space inthis huge house, and you do feel
more lonely, I think, if thehome was smaller and you're kind
of, I don't know, like there isdefinitely a factor in the size
of our spaces and how do weneed all that space?
We don't, we just need to useit better.
Yes, oh, that's so interesting,isn't it?
So we aspire for big, bighouses, multiple living rooms.
(11:37):
You know the butler's pantry,which is another rant for
another day, or I could, I meanit could set me off anyway, I
don't have one of those now.
I have got no butler's pantry.
Be very happy.
Well, to be honest, it's notabout a butler's pantry, it's
about double kitchens.
Really, it's about having akitchen for show and another
(11:57):
kitchen where the actual cookinghappens.
Again, it's that you mentionedwasteful.
That doesn't make you feel good, I don't think, when you feel a
sense of wastefulness in yourhome and I think that at
different stages of life, I meansure your boys don't want to
hang out with each other and you, no offence, every minute of
(12:20):
the day, not all the time, but Istill think that there are
times when families should betogether and this is just my own
idea, which is mealtimes Likethat should be effortless for a
family to sit around a table.
And actually I just visited aclient today and they just moved
in and there's a U-shaped sortof kitchen and they were
(12:41):
thinking about renovating it andputting an island bench in the
middle so they could put stoolsup in the kitchen.
But they've put a beautiful oldit's like a French rustic farm
table, farmhouse table,surrounded by chairs, in the
middle of the kitchen.
So they were amazed about howthey all sit together as a
family and just a simple chairand tables has brought them
(13:01):
together just for chats, justfor coffee, just for yeah, I
mean, because it's inviting,right.
Well, I think it's.
You know, they've had stalls,they've had an island bench, but
there's nothing as simple andas as powerful as a table and
chairs.
Like I mean, yeah, it's nothingnew, but I just feel like we're
so focused on kitchens.
But what we need to focus on isa dining experience.
(13:23):
And it's funny too there's oneof the trends that we've talked
about for next year is kind ofthis revival of dining on all
those levels, on this kind ofbringing people together,
creating convivial moments,making it really inviting for
the simple casual thing thatwe're talking about, like where
it's just impromptu, and alsokind of creating these more
(13:44):
grand dining experiences andreally, you know, focusing on it
being all about that.
And I think it's because peoplewant that connection.
So even those sort of more grand, amazing kind of events that
are focused around dining arestill really about, you know, at
its core, about connection,because we love to connect over
food and I think if we had totalk about something to do with
(14:08):
Australian culture which youknow I struggle with trying to
work out exactly what that is Ido think that that's part of it
and I think that's probably todo with the fact that we have,
you know, come from immigrantsfrom all over the world, and
particularly Europeans, and theylove to connect over food right
, and I think that has beenpassed down into an Australian
culture.
We might do it slightlydifferently, but it's really
important.
(14:28):
That's one of those momentsthat's kind of casual enough
that you can actually have aconversation with, maybe, yeah,
like your family that youhaven't seen for all week, or
whenever it is if everyone'scoming together in that moment,
it lets you guard down a littlebit, I think, when you, when
it's about the food, that's nice.
Well, I mean, you know, myhusband feels chinese and it's
the same obviously.
(14:49):
I think it's the same in prettymuch every culture.
Food brings people together andit is right, the feasts.
So I've just identified anotherthing that isn't unique about a
story and culture.
Sorry, yes, well, I, when I waswriting the French book the New
French Look, I was looking forimages of kitchens.
(15:09):
I'm like, why am I not findingimages of kitchens?
It's because that's not theheart of the home, it's the
dining experience.
And I was like that's reallyinteresting, because they
literally stop for lunchtimeevery day.
They don't just like grabsomething in the car and go,
like they are.
It's actually that culturethat's quite ingrained, which I
think that we some do, somedon't.
(15:31):
It's not part of our culture tostop for lunch and sit at a
table.
No way, no, it definitely isn't.
Yeah, or even, you know, inEurope it's not unusual to go
home for lunch.
You know, even if you're atwork, if you're not far to head
home, I mean, hopefully they'llhold on to that for, like, some
of that sort of seeping away.
But I think also that's thatwhole thing of you know, when
you do see Parisian or evenItalian kitchens, they're
(15:54):
usually quite small, they're notour ridiculous kitchens, and
they have a table in them,whether that's a tiny table or
whatever it is.
So it is kind of all quitecontained and small and
everything kind of happens inthat one space, right, and I
think you know that goes back tothat idea of hygge.
It is you can hygge by yourselfor you can hygge with others.
Is that how you say it?
(16:15):
I don't know, I'm gonna gohygge by myself, but it's like,
don't question me.
Yeah, it's something that itbrings people together.
It's that warm and fuzzyfeeling when you're sitting
around the table, and it's easy.
There's a table there, there'sa deck of cards there, I don't
know, sitting around playing unoor something like that, like
(16:36):
it's a very good thing, yes, avery good board game, yeah, yes,
yes.
So it's the feel, I guess.
Would you break it down, it'show you create the feelings in
your home, and so hygge could bekind of different for everyone
in a way.
Right, I think so Does it haveto be all the same?
I mean, there are some basicthings.
Well, I think that there's somethings I kind of jotted down.
(16:59):
Colour I don't know if we canhygge in a completely white
space.
No, not if it's very cold andminimal.
I mean, I don't think there's alot of hygge going on in, like,
you know, doctor's surgery, orno, exactly Is there?
I don't think so, not in theactual surgery itself.
Maybe in the waiting room therecould be some hygge.
So, lighting I think lighting isessential.
(17:22):
I feel like that's even I wouldgo as far to say that lighting
is more important than colour.
Yeah, same Blasphemy, I know,coming from my mouth.
However, if we do have an allwhite, bright space, you can,
without painting at all, youknow, and doing the extreme
things, you could just changethe lighting and make a huge
difference, right?
(17:42):
Well, you know, we bang onabout white spaces, and I think
somebody who does white spacesso well is leanne ford, and they
are loaded with hygge, goodfeels, you know, she's got the
record player, the music, it'samped up in the texture, it's
layered lighting and it's uh,it's cozy and it has a warmth to
it, even if it's softness too,right, yeah, and that can come
(18:05):
from the type of lighting.
See, even if you have, likequite a cool white, you can
actually.
I guess the greatest benefit ofwhite is you can adjust the
warmth just through light.
You can actually add a littlebit of warmth to your very
clinically white space by havingwarm lighting and kind of
pulling it all down and notusing, you know, the overheads
or any kind of white light atall.
(18:26):
I can pull it all back, that'strue.
Yeah, not that I'm advocatingfor the all white spaces.
Well, yeah, they can be done.
Well.
So you want to create littlepools of lighting, to create
like little intimate corners.
It's about a textured lightingeffect.
So you'll have a pendant lightfor general lighting.
You'll have table lamps, floorlamps, wall sconces maybe
(18:51):
Absolutely I love that orsomething that at least hits the
wall with light.
So you know, I think it's greatif you can't have wall lights
or you don't have wall lights,if you have a lamp where you can
direct the light or it's gotuplighting in the lamp, it just
creates that beautiful glow thatmaybe hits the wall, hits the
ceiling, without it being, youknow, crazy.
Yeah, I think that's reallynice, that indirect lighting.
(19:14):
Another one is comfort.
So I think that you know, and Imean, it sounds like so obvious
, doesn't it?
But sometimes, I mean, as wewere saying, even if you're
talking about a kitchen, anisland bench situation which
turns into where the family doesall of their shares, their
meals, together, is it actuallycomfortable sitting precariously
on a stool, yes, or would youprefer sitting on a dining chair
(19:36):
?
But also, it's not just howcomfortable it feels to sit on,
but it's also how inviting itlooks.
I was about to say exactly that.
So that's comfort is seen first, right, and then enjoyed, like
through feel.
So you might look at somethingthat looks comfortable and you
sort of head towards it and it'sinviting.
You look at it and it's likeyou know, sharp angles and cold
(19:58):
looking, you're like, well, thatdoesn't look so comfortable.
So visually it has to kind ofinvite you in, and that's that
tactility moment often, isn't it?
It's whether there's perceivedsoftness or something about it
that you want to touch or beclose to.
That makes sense.
I like that.
Yeah, it's comfort is seenfirst.
(20:18):
I like that.
Yeah, there you go.
And I think the fourth one thatI kind of thought could be scale
, which is kind of what we'vetalked about.
You know those big, oversized,cavernous spaces, you actually
feel kind of exposed.
I mean, even if it's in yourown house, it doesn't feel good
(20:38):
to be in a one big space withlots of windows.
I don't know.
People feel more comfortablebeing in a space where we can
feel a bit more of a boundary.
Well, it comes back to, I guess, a perceived safeness as well.
Right, you're not as exposed.
There's something creatingsafety, whether that's tactility
(20:59):
or not, having your back tocold, even with windows.
As much as I love big windowsand obviously different homes in
different areas, it suitsdifferent things but I actually
even hate even if it's like thisamazing view and all these
grand windows, I still kind ofwant to be able to like have a
little sheer tactility drapemoment, just to kind of break it
a little bit, because it can bea bit much, can't it?
(21:19):
It is quite.
You do feel like you're veryexposed and you can't maybe
fully relax unless you have thatat some point you can sit there
and take in the view and havethose moments, but you don't
always want to feel like that.
Sometimes you want to have alittle bit of I don't know a
little cozy, cocoony moment.
I agree, I mean, where we are,we've got big windows and
(21:40):
because we can move fromapartments before we lived in an
apartment and we had shears youcould close.
You know you do want thatprivacy because there's other
apartment buildings but you'reup high and you know that
somebody can't walk past yourwindow.
But when we were here the firstfew nights I was a bit scared
because I couldn't see.
I couldn't see anything outside, yeah, so you would have been
(22:03):
used to seeing other lights andother buildings and then all of
a sudden you're like countrysidekind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, country, but itlooks like the countryside.
Yeah, and we did, we did putsome shears up on a window.
Um, that does help with thatfeeling of feeling, of feeling
safe.
But you weren't thinking thatall the kangaroos were just
standing out there staring atyou.
They, they could have been, youcouldn't see them, I couldn't
(22:23):
see them.
So I sort of thought color,lighting, comfort and scale were
some key things that can createthat sense of hygge in our home
.
Yeah, I think the other I guessslightly still important but
that you could add into thoselayers would be, um, scent and
(22:46):
how things smell, right, so youcould have all those things and
walk in and get, like one of thehouses I looked at, walk in and
get an immediate smell, likethere's rising damp or some kind
of mold, yeah, and you're likeI can't relax, get out of here,
whereas you walk in and maybeyou smell freshly baked cookies
or bread in the toaster or justa beautiful candle or some
(23:08):
essence, I don't know.
I feel like that's a big dealfor me and particularly like
almost can be nostalgic, so itcan make you feel safe and calm,
or it's just, you know, justsmells good, I guess.
Well, I think that when we wentoverseas and when we went on
our design tour visiting theapartments, it was scent,
(23:28):
especially in Milan, thoseproperties that we visited,
those apartments, apartmentssounds like that.
It sounds underwhelming becausethey were so amazing, but they
smelled amazing.
But the mentor yes, yeah, yes,they did.
Yeah, it was all the sensesright, and they do lighting so
(23:49):
well too.
So well, you know, when we weretalking about sitting around a
table, talking about hygge, Ihad like the most hygge day of
my life life.
(24:12):
Um, it was 2020, at the start ofthe year, and I went to the
stockholm furniture fair.
Oh, yeah, yeah, and I wanted tovisit ethem, and ethem is a
hotel.
It's a boutique hotel.
It's designed by ilsa crawfordand a lot of interior designers
really froth over her projectsbecause she's really does that
Hoogah concept really well.
And anyway, I was like I'mgoing to go and have a look.
So I wrapped up there, got outof my Uber, dropped off at this
(24:34):
hotel and it's a house.
It's like a stately brick housewith a brick fence.
And just as I was kind oflooking at the fence, thinking
at the gate, how do I get inhere?
A car pulls up and it's Antonand Megan from Great Dane.
Literally at that moment, atthat exact moment where I'm like
literally just sitting there,it's like standing there
(24:54):
scratching my head, thinking, ohhow I can't get in here because
I'm not a guest they pull up,they're like hey, laura, do you
want to go in and have a look?
We're staying here, yes, please.
So that was so impactful.
I think about that visit quiteoften and it was because it used
to be a home.
I mean, already it has a homelyfeel.
But yeah, you can't just floatin from the street because the
(25:19):
foyer, if you could call it that, is really like a living space,
so it's made up of all of thesedifferent sort of areas.
A couple of armchairs togetherunder a lamp, there's this black
and white stripy sofa You'dlove that, really sink into it.
And then there's a piano.
There's actually a bar as well,and the concept with the bar is
(25:40):
you mix yourself a drink andyou just write your name down
and they'll bill you at the endof the stay.
So even their trust, as we sortof talked about with the hygge
and, you know, feeling connected, that's kind of inbuilt in that
space and a sense of community,because a lot of different
people can be sort of using thespace as they were.
They were on their laptops,they were having a conversation,
they were just reading a book,like it was just like I was
(26:01):
stepped into, like a movie.
It was amazing.
But everyone's got space,everyone feels at ease, you feel
like you can be yourself, andwe had a cup of tea and a piece
of cake at the kitchen.
So in the kitchen you've got adining table, as we were saying,
and every day they bake a cakeand you can take yourself a
slice.
Oh my God, brie is the best Iknow, I know.
(26:24):
And then who should walk in?
But the Queen herself, ilsaCrawford, your best friend that
time, yes, and I was like, actcool, act cool.
Well, I didn't act cool.
I love your photos from that.
Oh, I couldn't resist.
I was like, can we please get aphoto together?
She did not want to take aphoto with me.
(26:45):
She was so happy in the photo,I'm gonna have to dig it out.
Oh, my god, she was notimpressed.
Yeah, oh, how embarrassing forme and that I mean you are you
probably.
I think that story, when youtold me I'd been seeing the
photos and I thought it was sofunny, has made me like hesitant
(27:06):
all the time.
But you're still like, we sawFaye, our friend Faye.
Yeah, too good.
Yeah, you still went like justgoing to do it.
Come on, let's just go talk toher.
I'm like, hey, I know I'mreally bad, like that, you're
really good.
No, I think it's great.
Who cares?
Who cares what they think?
Our friend Faye, she was justgorgeous.
Faye's beautiful.
(27:26):
Yeah, she was happy, she wassmiley, she was, yeah, she was
really cute.
But yeah, that hotel.
So if you like the idea ofHooga, look up Etem.
I think it's E-double-T-H-E-Mand it's in Stockholm, which
brings us to, I guess, our trip.
(27:47):
That's made you feel a littlehygge there.
You just had a little moment.
I did that was the best, oh myGod.
Well, the hotel we stay in inParis I find has pretty good
hygge.
It really does.
I love that hotel.
Experimental yeah, experimentalgroup Grande Boulevard.
How do you say it in French?
(28:08):
I say everything I say soundslike I'm trying to talk in
Italian.
I think that was perfect.
We only have a few spots to fillfrom our tour and we haven't
even advertised it fullyproperly yet.
We haven't tried.
I've been slacking off.
I've been moving house.
I haven't tried.
I've been slacking off.
I've been moving house.
I haven't tried yet.
But I have to say when I sawsome of the ladies pop their
(28:29):
name and say, yes, I'm coming, Iwas like, oh my God, brie
Already such an exciting group.
That's a cool person, I loveher, she's going to be fun, so
it's a good group.
So I guess, if you're curiousand you want to know about our
(28:49):
Milan Paris trip in April 2026.
Get in touch with us.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.
Yes, I think.
I believe, because we'll beannoying people about that this
week.
Well, you know, they won't beannoyed because they'll be happy
to hear from us about it, but Ithink those last spots will
fill pretty quick.
Yes, so it's not really Idecided to drink at the same
time.
That was funny.
People love it when there's anice silence in a podcast
episode.
(29:09):
Thanks for cutting that one outfor us, bill.
Yes, so wrapping it up.
Wrapping it up, what is that?
What are our key takeaways?
Aluren tell me.
Well, I think hygge is aboutconnection, comfort and
well-being.
I think our spaces shape ourbehavior more than we realize
and I think that we're in tunewith it, because that's our
(29:32):
literal job interior design.
But even if you're not in tunewith it, your behavior is
adjusting to your surroundings,it just is.
I think the tricky part withthat sometimes is because a lot
of people let's face it don'tnecessarily put a lot of
emphasis on their surroundings.
It's only when they aresomewhere else or they make
(29:52):
changes to that space that theyrealize how much happier they
are or more relaxed, or that itdoes actually affect your mental
state and your well-being, likeI, and even, as you said, we
are quite attuned to it and I'meven being more aware of it,
even when I painted those coupleof rooms in my house, how much
it changed the whole mood ofthat space, even as a family
(30:15):
being in it, and how much theboys appreciated it.
Even so, like it's, it issomething that has huge impact
and that you should.
You know if, if you're just notquite feeling right at home or
that it doesn't feel homelyenough, like just making those
few little changes, like, dosomething small.
Even buying yourself a few newbeautiful cushions and lighting
a gorgeous candle can be enoughon a Sunday night just to wind
(30:37):
down and have your own bit ofhygge.
Right, definitely.
And if you wanted to make achange, I love what you said
cushions, candle go to Ikea andjust get yourself some lamps.
Yeah, the lighting so let'scome back to that Absolutely.
Yeah, like you don't have tospend a lot of money but you can
really create a beautifulatmosphere with lighting,
(30:57):
definitely.
What was another takeaway?
I think Australian homes aretoo big.
We need to start buildingsmaller homes and I think it's
up to us as designers to see ifwe can have some sort of
influence on that.
Yeah, and if you, you know,obviously you're already in a
bigger home and you're so happywith it, but you have that
feeling, I think it is comingback to creating exactly what
(31:19):
you described in the hotel.
Those moments create momentswithin your spaces.
Don don't stick to that formulaof you know, like, um, here's
the living room with a sofa anda chair and a coffee table.
Like you can break that up.
It doesn't all have to face thetelevision.
You've got room to createanother little moment with two
chairs where you can kind of sitin a little table and have your
cup of tea, and that'sorientated a different way and
(31:40):
there's a lamp there.
Those are the things you can doto break up those kind of big,
cavernous, soulless spaces thatyou might end up with in a new
home too.
So true, and I think, just toround that out, it's design
isn't just aesthetics, it'shealth and happiness, 100, 100.
And even if I wasn't a designer, I just know you know in your
(32:02):
core that actually makes adifference, because it's not
just about interiors, it's abouteverything.
It's about the comfort of youknow a handle and the way you
use a stove and the way you opena fridge, like all of those
things are designed and they'vebeen designed to make you feel
better, and you know ergonomics,like all of that stuff.
It's all sort of intertwinedand interrelated.
And when you add interiors intothat and treat it in the same
(32:25):
way, then you just get like abrilliant result from the space.
I think.
So good, brie, I love it.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you, it's been fun.
Bye everyone.
See ya, we've got the utmostrespect for the Wurundjeri
people of the Kulin nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
(32:46):
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me, brie
Banfield and me, lauren Lee,with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style, with a sharedpassion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights and inspiration with
(00:22):
you.
And what are we going to talkabout today, lauren?
Well, actually on the weekend Iwent to Adelaide, radelaide.
You mean, yeah, I love it, Ilove it.
I just love the fact that it'sso traffic friendly compared to
(00:44):
Melbourne oh my God, most placesare at the moment.
It's such a novelty, but I wasthere for the KBDI conference.
So every year it's the Kitchenand Bathroom Association,
Kitchen and Bathroom DesignAssociation or something like
that.
I don't know exactly what itstands for, but I was pretty
(01:05):
yeah, I was pretty honouredactually to be invited to speak
at their conference and what wetalked about was wellbeing and
touched on the concept of hyggeas well.
So I was like you know what?
I really think that we haven'teven talked about that in our
podcast yet and it might be afun topic to dive into and I
love trying to say the word Ithink that's how you say it, I'm
(01:30):
pretty sure, but please correctus if we're saying it wrong.
I remember when that firststarted to be sort of thrown
around that word, and everyone'slike what, hagi, higi, hug, and
then what?
And then we find out it's hugoand we're like, ah, none of us
worked that out.
No, was way off.
(01:50):
Yeah, so I guess the thing withthat concept of hygge, it was
like, I don't know, maybe 10 orso years ago there was like a
book that came out and it wasjust sold in every bookshop.
Yeah, yeah, and I think it wasliterally just called that,
wasn't it?
Or something with the tagline,but I feel like that was the
(02:10):
name of the book.
Yeah, I think there was likeone well-known one that came out
and then a few others were likeoh, let's bring out a book as
well, because this is like awhole thing.
And I think when I think of theword hygge, what comes to mind
is like warm, fuzzy socks, hotchocolate, open fire, you know
this kind of thing.
But I think today, hopefully,we'll dive a little bit deeper
(02:32):
into what it can mean for how welive, and related to interior
design Makes sense, I suppose.
So what is hygge, I guess, is agood place to start right.
Yeah, what?
How do we break it down?
Well, I think hygge is not justa look, it's more a feeling,
(02:53):
and I think you know you and Iare pretty aligned about how a
space feels is really important.
You know, we we love talkingabout color and you know
different kind of style,directions and things, but at
the end of the day, I think it'sjust really important to really
always come back to how a spacefeels, absolutely.
I think that's what our aim isusually, isn't it?
(03:14):
When we work with anyone on anyspace, or even if I go back to
creating content and creatingimages, it always comes back to
how we want someone to feelabout something.
So, yeah, it's very connectedto feeling and not just
prettiness, exactly, yeah.
And when I started to thinkabout this concept of, you know,
(03:35):
wellness in our spaces, Ilooked up who were the happiest
people in the world andapparently it's Finland.
They've been number one forquite a few years, yeah, and
those other Nordic countries arepretty close behind as well.
And it's things like the GDP,life expectancy, governance and
things like that.
But it's also social support,generosity and freedom to make
(03:58):
choices.
And when I started to thinkabout that.
It's feeling connection andtrust.
They have a really high senseof trust in things and a sense
of safety, and I think that'swhat spaces can nurture those
things.
In fact, we talk about that allthe time.
Like you know, in trendforecasting, when there's a lot
(04:20):
of uncertainty in the world, wedo talk about this kind of like
cocooning effect and wanting tobe somewhere safe, and that home
is this safety.
We try not to use that wordbecause it sounds like something
a bit scary is going on, and Ithink it is.
It's like it's really scary outthere.
So home is this haven where wewant to escape to, where we can
be completely ourselves, besurrounded by things that make
(04:41):
us feel good, and then that'swhat makes us feel safe.
So there's all those thingsthat you know you have to tick
the boxes for right, and youknow a space that feels yourself
like is so important.
But also you want to feelyourself in your home, but you
also want your guests to feelthemselves in your home too.
And I mean, I feel like when Ithink about that in the first
(05:05):
episode or the second episode ofand Just Like that, remember
when Carrie is like, oh my gosh,my husband's just died, I need
to sell that apartment, yeah.
And she goes and she looks atthis penthouse and it's the best
penthouse on offer in New Yorkthe bright white one.
Amazing, exactly.
So there she is, standing atthis bright white kitchen, stark
(05:29):
white, shiny materials.
But there she is, thiscolourful person with a hat,
with a scarf and everything.
She's not herself.
All the layers and all thefeels and all the tactility that
she has, yeah, yeah, all herpersonality, and I feel like
that's a lot of homes inaustralia, these bright white
spaces.
I mean, I'm going to be bangingon about this until I die.
(05:50):
I think probably me too.
I just don't feel like you canbe yourself in a place, in a
space that feels so sterile andjust no texture, no color.
It does not, does not feelrelaxing, it's not.
It's like living in a warehouseor something that's overly lit
and designed for work orsomething.
(06:11):
How is it relaxing?
I don't know how it can be.
I know I was really worried.
So I've just moved house and,as you know, I had painted a few
of my rooms in my last place Irent and I'm moving now into
another white space and I was soscared.
I would feel like like that,like, just like, really it does
affect my happiness 100%.
(06:32):
It sounds like this sort ofsuperficial thing and it's
definitely not.
It's been okay because thelight's really beautiful in here
and they actually have drapes,so there's some tactility and
softness, and then I've got allof my stuff in there, obviously,
which changes it and brings allthe color.
But there's this fear for me ofliving in like soulless spaces
and going around to find a newhome.
(06:52):
It reminded me how many awfulplaces there are out there.
When I say awful, like yes,there's a lot of issues with
functionality, and I'm nottalking about something being
old or even something beingbrand new, it's just
soullessness.
It's kind of soulless feelingwhen you walk into a space and I
know you bring a lot into ahome when you move into it the
(07:13):
shell itself can do so muchalready for you, right, agree?
And you know, if you have aspace like that Kerry Bradshaw,
in that stark white space, it'slike even her presence looks
messy.
Even a phone on the islandbench looks messy, like even the
smallest thing.
You try to make it feel at homebut there's nowhere for
(07:33):
anything to properly live.
It's just like a gallery spacewhere everything is sort of
heightenly on display and looksmessy, so I'm just not about it,
nowhere to hide.
Yeah, exactly, you're under thespotlight.
And when I was looking into thistopic a bit more, I was looking
into some statistics on youknow that happiness index and I
(07:54):
found out that 15% ofAustralians reported loneliness
in 2023, according to the HILDAsurvey.
And social isolation isdirectly linked to poor mental
and physical health.
So I'm like, okay, we know thatthere's like a loneliness
epidemic.
It's no joke, it's serious.
How can our environment helpwith that?
(08:14):
How can we feel more nurturedand connected in our spaces?
And then, when you look at thesize of an Australian home, it's
the largest homes in the world.
They're 214 square meters.
We're so disconnected, even inour own home, and I actually
feel like that's really so wrongon so many levels that we're
building houses this big whenwe're all off on our own little,
(08:38):
in our own rooms, in our ownquarters, in our own home.
We also have a housing crisis,don't we?
So I mean, I know there's a lotof talk about how to fix that
and I guess a lot of dual-ocsort of situations happening.
That's what I've moved into herein a townhouse, but there was
this funny sense of when in myolder home it was very big and
(09:01):
it was exactly what you'retalking about.
It was a sort of spec buildwith four bedrooms, a study, a
living area, a meals area, adining room, another living area
upstairs and another like kidsroom at the back, and it was,
and I didn't, I didn't sort ofchoose it for those reasons.
It's just ended up happening tobe the best place for us to go
at the time.
But I always had this weirdfeeling about it being too big
(09:24):
and even like so, my, the mainbedroom, was big enough for me
to have my queen size bed,bedside tables, a whole sofa, a
big coffee table, another chair.
It was a living room.
And then you walked through thewalk-in robe.
I do I do, slightly miss mywalk-in robe, though that's
practical.
(09:44):
That's practical.
That's storage.
I did use that.
Well, I probably used thatbetter than I did my bedroom
Into a bathroom which had a bathand a separate toilet and a big
, big shower, and it was like Icould have probably did dance in
there many times, pirouetting,you know, with my arms out.
I would bet my life on it thatyou danced in that bathroom,
because when we stayed in thatParis hotel, you guys, the music
(10:09):
, the singing, it was the mostjoyful thing.
Yeah, there's probably not aroom I haven't danced in in any
of the houses but it was just.
It was sort of this kind ofyucky feeling of excess and I
like it's nice to have bigspaces.
But to the point where before Ihad to move, weirdly, before I
was told that we had to move, wedid have to.
(10:31):
It wasn't a choice at the timeand that's just because moving
is awful I had these weirdfeelings of feeling almost
suffocated in a house that wasso big I can't explain it.
I think it would be more aboutit being small, but it was just.
It was this feeling of kind ofexcess and that I didn't need it
and it was like bothering methat I had all this space.
That was kind of just likewasteful.
(10:51):
There was this wasteful feeling.
I don't know we're getting offtrack, but yeah, I think it's
like you sort of feel this.
I can see how I would feel itwas.
Like one night there's usuallysomeone here, but you know, my
kids are pretty grown up and allthe teenagers and grown up.
So sometimes, very rarely, I'mat home and no one's there, and
(11:11):
when it happened, it was just meand the dog and we would be
like using one tiny space inthis huge house, and you do feel
more lonely, I think, if thehome was smaller and you're kind
of, I don't know, like there isdefinitely a factor in the size
of our spaces and how do weneed all that space?
We don't, we just need to useit better.
Yes, oh, that's so interesting,isn't it?
So we aspire for big, bighouses, multiple living rooms.
(11:37):
You know the butler's pantry,which is another rant for
another day, or I could, I meanit could set me off anyway, I
don't have one of those now.
I have got no butler's pantry.
Be very happy.
Well, to be honest, it's notabout a butler's pantry, it's
about double kitchens.
Really, it's about having akitchen for show and another
(11:57):
kitchen where the actual cookinghappens.
Again, it's that you mentionedwasteful.
That doesn't make you feel good, I don't think, when you feel a
sense of wastefulness in yourhome and I think that at
different stages of life, I meansure your boys don't want to
hang out with each other and you, no offence, every minute of
(12:20):
the day, not all the time, but Istill think that there are
times when families should betogether and this is just my own
idea, which is mealtimes Likethat should be effortless for a
family to sit around a table.
And actually I just visited aclient today and they just moved
in and there's a U-shaped sortof kitchen and they were
(12:41):
thinking about renovating it andputting an island bench in the
middle so they could put stoolsup in the kitchen.
But they've put a beautiful oldit's like a French rustic farm
table, farmhouse table,surrounded by chairs, in the
middle of the kitchen.
So they were amazed about howthey all sit together as a
family and just a simple chairand tables has brought them
(13:01):
together just for chats, justfor coffee, just for yeah, I
mean, because it's inviting,right.
Well, I think it's.
You know, they've had stalls,they've had an island bench, but
there's nothing as simple andas as powerful as a table and
chairs.
Like I mean, yeah, it's nothingnew, but I just feel like we're
so focused on kitchens.
But what we need to focus on isa dining experience.
(13:23):
And it's funny too there's oneof the trends that we've talked
about for next year is kind ofthis revival of dining on all
those levels, on this kind ofbringing people together,
creating convivial moments,making it really inviting for
the simple casual thing thatwe're talking about, like where
it's just impromptu, and alsokind of creating these more
(13:44):
grand dining experiences andreally, you know, focusing on it
being all about that.
And I think it's because peoplewant that connection.
So even those sort of more grand, amazing kind of events that
are focused around dining arestill really about, you know, at
its core, about connection,because we love to connect over
food and I think if we had totalk about something to do with
(14:08):
Australian culture which youknow I struggle with trying to
work out exactly what that is Ido think that that's part of it
and I think that's probably todo with the fact that we have,
you know, come from immigrantsfrom all over the world, and
particularly Europeans, and theylove to connect over food right
, and I think that has beenpassed down into an Australian
culture.
We might do it slightlydifferently, but it's really
important.
(14:28):
That's one of those momentsthat's kind of casual enough
that you can actually have aconversation with, maybe, yeah,
like your family that youhaven't seen for all week, or
whenever it is if everyone'scoming together in that moment,
it lets you guard down a littlebit, I think, when you, when
it's about the food, that's nice.
Well, I mean, you know, myhusband feels chinese and it's
the same obviously.
(14:49):
I think it's the same in prettymuch every culture.
Food brings people together andit is right, the feasts.
So I've just identified anotherthing that isn't unique about a
story and culture.
Sorry, yes, well, I, when I waswriting the French book the New
French Look, I was looking forimages of kitchens.
(15:09):
I'm like, why am I not findingimages of kitchens?
It's because that's not theheart of the home, it's the
dining experience.
And I was like that's reallyinteresting, because they
literally stop for lunchtimeevery day.
They don't just like grabsomething in the car and go,
like they are.
It's actually that culturethat's quite ingrained, which I
think that we some do, somedon't.
(15:31):
It's not part of our culture tostop for lunch and sit at a
table.
No way, no, it definitely isn't.
Yeah, or even, you know, inEurope it's not unusual to go
home for lunch.
You know, even if you're atwork, if you're not far to head
home, I mean, hopefully they'llhold on to that for, like, some
of that sort of seeping away.
But I think also that's thatwhole thing of you know, when
you do see Parisian or evenItalian kitchens, they're
(15:54):
usually quite small, they're notour ridiculous kitchens, and
they have a table in them,whether that's a tiny table or
whatever it is.
So it is kind of all quitecontained and small and
everything kind of happens inthat one space, right, and I
think you know that goes back tothat idea of hygge.
It is you can hygge by yourselfor you can hygge with others.
Is that how you say it?
(16:15):
I don't know, I'm gonna gohygge by myself, but it's like,
don't question me.
Yeah, it's something that itbrings people together.
It's that warm and fuzzyfeeling when you're sitting
around the table, and it's easy.
There's a table there, there'sa deck of cards there, I don't
know, sitting around playing unoor something like that, like
(16:36):
it's a very good thing, yes, avery good board game, yeah, yes,
yes.
So it's the feel, I guess.
Would you break it down, it'show you create the feelings in
your home, and so hygge could bekind of different for everyone
in a way.
Right, I think so Does it haveto be all the same?
I mean, there are some basicthings.
Well, I think that there's somethings I kind of jotted down.
(16:59):
Colour I don't know if we canhygge in a completely white
space.
No, not if it's very cold andminimal.
I mean, I don't think there's alot of hygge going on in, like,
you know, doctor's surgery, orno, exactly Is there?
I don't think so, not in theactual surgery itself.
Maybe in the waiting room therecould be some hygge.
So, lighting I think lighting isessential.
(17:22):
I feel like that's even I wouldgo as far to say that lighting
is more important than colour.
Yeah, same Blasphemy, I know,coming from my mouth.
However, if we do have an allwhite, bright space, you can,
without painting at all, youknow, and doing the extreme
things, you could just changethe lighting and make a huge
difference, right?
(17:42):
Well, you know, we bang onabout white spaces, and I think
somebody who does white spacesso well is leanne ford, and they
are loaded with hygge, goodfeels, you know, she's got the
record player, the music, it'samped up in the texture, it's
layered lighting and it's uh,it's cozy and it has a warmth to
it, even if it's softness too,right, yeah, and that can come
(18:05):
from the type of lighting.
See, even if you have, likequite a cool white, you can
actually.
I guess the greatest benefit ofwhite is you can adjust the
warmth just through light.
You can actually add a littlebit of warmth to your very
clinically white space by havingwarm lighting and kind of
pulling it all down and notusing, you know, the overheads
or any kind of white light atall.
(18:26):
I can pull it all back, that'strue.
Yeah, not that I'm advocatingfor the all white spaces.
Well, yeah, they can be done.
Well.
So you want to create littlepools of lighting, to create
like little intimate corners.
It's about a textured lightingeffect.
So you'll have a pendant lightfor general lighting.
You'll have table lamps, floorlamps, wall sconces maybe
(18:51):
Absolutely I love that orsomething that at least hits the
wall with light.
So you know, I think it's greatif you can't have wall lights
or you don't have wall lights,if you have a lamp where you can
direct the light or it's gotuplighting in the lamp, it just
creates that beautiful glow thatmaybe hits the wall, hits the
ceiling, without it being, youknow, crazy.
Yeah, I think that's reallynice, that indirect lighting.
(19:14):
Another one is comfort.
So I think that you know, and Imean, it sounds like so obvious
, doesn't it?
But sometimes, I mean, as wewere saying, even if you're
talking about a kitchen, anisland bench situation which
turns into where the family doesall of their shares, their
meals, together, is it actuallycomfortable sitting precariously
on a stool, yes, or would youprefer sitting on a dining chair
(19:36):
?
But also, it's not just howcomfortable it feels to sit on,
but it's also how inviting itlooks.
I was about to say exactly that.
So that's comfort is seen first, right, and then enjoyed, like
through feel.
So you might look at somethingthat looks comfortable and you
sort of head towards it and it'sinviting.
You look at it and it's likeyou know, sharp angles and cold
(19:58):
looking, you're like, well, thatdoesn't look so comfortable.
So visually it has to kind ofinvite you in, and that's that
tactility moment often, isn't it?
It's whether there's perceivedsoftness or something about it
that you want to touch or beclose to.
That makes sense.
I like that.
Yeah, it's comfort is seenfirst.
(20:18):
I like that.
Yeah, there you go.
And I think the fourth one thatI kind of thought could be scale
, which is kind of what we'vetalked about.
You know those big, oversized,cavernous spaces, you actually
feel kind of exposed.
I mean, even if it's in yourown house, it doesn't feel good
(20:38):
to be in a one big space withlots of windows.
I don't know.
People feel more comfortablebeing in a space where we can
feel a bit more of a boundary.
Well, it comes back to, I guess, a perceived safeness as well.
Right, you're not as exposed.
There's something creatingsafety, whether that's tactility
(20:59):
or not, having your back tocold, even with windows.
As much as I love big windowsand obviously different homes in
different areas, it suitsdifferent things but I actually
even hate even if it's like thisamazing view and all these
grand windows, I still kind ofwant to be able to like have a
little sheer tactility drapemoment, just to kind of break it
a little bit, because it can bea bit much, can't it?
(21:19):
It is quite.
You do feel like you're veryexposed and you can't maybe
fully relax unless you have thatat some point you can sit there
and take in the view and havethose moments, but you don't
always want to feel like that.
Sometimes you want to have alittle bit of I don't know a
little cozy, cocoony moment.
I agree, I mean, where we are,we've got big windows and
(21:40):
because we can move fromapartments before we lived in an
apartment and we had shears youcould close.
You know you do want thatprivacy because there's other
apartment buildings but you'reup high and you know that
somebody can't walk past yourwindow.
But when we were here the firstfew nights I was a bit scared
because I couldn't see.
I couldn't see anything outside, yeah, so you would have been
(22:03):
used to seeing other lights andother buildings and then all of
a sudden you're like countrysidekind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, country, but itlooks like the countryside.
Yeah, and we did, we did putsome shears up on a window.
Um, that does help with thatfeeling of feeling, of feeling
safe.
But you weren't thinking thatall the kangaroos were just
standing out there staring atyou.
They, they could have been, youcouldn't see them, I couldn't
(22:23):
see them.
So I sort of thought color,lighting, comfort and scale were
some key things that can createthat sense of hygge in our home
.
Yeah, I think the other I guessslightly still important but
that you could add into thoselayers would be, um, scent and
(22:46):
how things smell, right, so youcould have all those things and
walk in and get, like one of thehouses I looked at, walk in and
get an immediate smell, likethere's rising damp or some kind
of mold, yeah, and you're likeI can't relax, get out of here,
whereas you walk in and maybeyou smell freshly baked cookies
or bread in the toaster or justa beautiful candle or some
(23:08):
essence, I don't know.
I feel like that's a big dealfor me and particularly like
almost can be nostalgic, so itcan make you feel safe and calm,
or it's just, you know, justsmells good, I guess.
Well, I think that when we wentoverseas and when we went on
our design tour visiting theapartments, it was scent,
(23:28):
especially in Milan, thoseproperties that we visited,
those apartments, apartmentssounds like that.
It sounds underwhelming becausethey were so amazing, but they
smelled amazing.
But the mentor yes, yeah, yes,they did.
Yeah, it was all the sensesright, and they do lighting so
(23:49):
well too.
So well, you know, when we weretalking about sitting around a
table, talking about hygge, Ihad like the most hygge day of
my life life.
(24:12):
Um, it was 2020, at the start ofthe year, and I went to the
stockholm furniture fair.
Oh, yeah, yeah, and I wanted tovisit ethem, and ethem is a
hotel.
It's a boutique hotel.
It's designed by ilsa crawfordand a lot of interior designers
really froth over her projectsbecause she's really does that
Hoogah concept really well.
And anyway, I was like I'mgoing to go and have a look.
So I wrapped up there, got outof my Uber, dropped off at this
(24:34):
hotel and it's a house.
It's like a stately brick housewith a brick fence.
And just as I was kind oflooking at the fence, thinking
at the gate, how do I get inhere?
A car pulls up and it's Antonand Megan from Great Dane.
Literally at that moment, atthat exact moment where I'm like
literally just sitting there,it's like standing there
(24:54):
scratching my head, thinking, ohhow I can't get in here because
I'm not a guest they pull up,they're like hey, laura, do you
want to go in and have a look?
We're staying here, yes, please.
So that was so impactful.
I think about that visit quiteoften and it was because it used
to be a home.
I mean, already it has a homelyfeel.
But yeah, you can't just floatin from the street because the
(25:19):
foyer, if you could call it that, is really like a living space,
so it's made up of all of thesedifferent sort of areas.
A couple of armchairs togetherunder a lamp, there's this black
and white stripy sofa You'dlove that, really sink into it.
And then there's a piano.
There's actually a bar as well,and the concept with the bar is
(25:40):
you mix yourself a drink andyou just write your name down
and they'll bill you at the endof the stay.
So even their trust, as we sortof talked about with the hygge
and, you know, feeling connected, that's kind of inbuilt in that
space and a sense of community,because a lot of different
people can be sort of using thespace as they were.
They were on their laptops,they were having a conversation,
they were just reading a book,like it was just like I was
(26:01):
stepped into, like a movie.
It was amazing.
But everyone's got space,everyone feels at ease, you feel
like you can be yourself, andwe had a cup of tea and a piece
of cake at the kitchen.
So in the kitchen you've got adining table, as we were saying,
and every day they bake a cakeand you can take yourself a
slice.
Oh my God, brie is the best Iknow, I know.
(26:24):
And then who should walk in?
But the Queen herself, ilsaCrawford, your best friend that
time, yes, and I was like, actcool, act cool.
Well, I didn't act cool.
I love your photos from that.
Oh, I couldn't resist.
I was like, can we please get aphoto together?
She did not want to take aphoto with me.
(26:45):
She was so happy in the photo,I'm gonna have to dig it out.
Oh, my god, she was notimpressed.
Yeah, oh, how embarrassing forme and that I mean you are you
probably.
I think that story, when youtold me I'd been seeing the
photos and I thought it was sofunny, has made me like hesitant
(27:06):
all the time.
But you're still like, we sawFaye, our friend Faye.
Yeah, too good.
Yeah, you still went like justgoing to do it.
Come on, let's just go talk toher.
I'm like, hey, I know I'mreally bad, like that, you're
really good.
No, I think it's great.
Who cares?
Who cares what they think?
Our friend Faye, she was justgorgeous.
Faye's beautiful.
(27:26):
Yeah, she was happy, she wassmiley, she was, yeah, she was
really cute.
But yeah, that hotel.
So if you like the idea ofHooga, look up Etem.
I think it's E-double-T-H-E-Mand it's in Stockholm, which
brings us to, I guess, our trip.
(27:47):
That's made you feel a littlehygge there.
You just had a little moment.
I did that was the best, oh myGod.
Well, the hotel we stay in inParis I find has pretty good
hygge.
It really does.
I love that hotel.
Experimental yeah, experimentalgroup Grande Boulevard.
How do you say it in French?
(28:08):
I say everything I say soundslike I'm trying to talk in
Italian.
I think that was perfect.
We only have a few spots to fillfrom our tour and we haven't
even advertised it fullyproperly yet.
We haven't tried.
I've been slacking off.
I've been moving house.
I haven't tried.
I've been slacking off.
I've been moving house.
I haven't tried yet.
But I have to say when I sawsome of the ladies pop their
(28:29):
name and say, yes, I'm coming, Iwas like, oh my God, brie
Already such an exciting group.
That's a cool person, I loveher, she's going to be fun, so
it's a good group.
So I guess, if you're curiousand you want to know about our
(28:49):
Milan Paris trip in April 2026.
Get in touch with us.
We'll put a link in the shownotes.
Yes, I think.
I believe, because we'll beannoying people about that this
week.
Well, you know, they won't beannoyed because they'll be happy
to hear from us about it, but Ithink those last spots will
fill pretty quick.
Yes, so it's not really Idecided to drink at the same
time.
That was funny.
People love it when there's anice silence in a podcast
episode.
(29:09):
Thanks for cutting that one outfor us, bill.
Yes, so wrapping it up.
Wrapping it up, what is that?
What are our key takeaways?
Aluren tell me.
Well, I think hygge is aboutconnection, comfort and
well-being.
I think our spaces shape ourbehavior more than we realize
and I think that we're in tunewith it, because that's our
(29:32):
literal job interior design.
But even if you're not in tunewith it, your behavior is
adjusting to your surroundings,it just is.
I think the tricky part withthat sometimes is because a lot
of people let's face it don'tnecessarily put a lot of
emphasis on their surroundings.
It's only when they aresomewhere else or they make
(29:52):
changes to that space that theyrealize how much happier they
are or more relaxed, or that itdoes actually affect your mental
state and your well-being, likeI, and even, as you said, we
are quite attuned to it and I'meven being more aware of it,
even when I painted those coupleof rooms in my house, how much
it changed the whole mood ofthat space, even as a family
(30:15):
being in it, and how much theboys appreciated it.
Even so, like it's, it issomething that has huge impact
and that you should.
You know if, if you're just notquite feeling right at home or
that it doesn't feel homelyenough, like just making those
few little changes, like, dosomething small.
Even buying yourself a few newbeautiful cushions and lighting
a gorgeous candle can be enoughon a Sunday night just to wind
(30:37):
down and have your own bit ofhygge.
Right, definitely.
And if you wanted to make achange, I love what you said
cushions, candle go to Ikea andjust get yourself some lamps.
Yeah, the lighting so let'scome back to that Absolutely.
Yeah, like you don't have tospend a lot of money but you can
really create a beautifulatmosphere with lighting,
(30:57):
definitely.
What was another takeaway?
I think Australian homes aretoo big.
We need to start buildingsmaller homes and I think it's
up to us as designers to see ifwe can have some sort of
influence on that.
Yeah, and if you, you know,obviously you're already in a
bigger home and you're so happywith it, but you have that
feeling, I think it is comingback to creating exactly what
(31:19):
you described in the hotel.
Those moments create momentswithin your spaces.
Don don't stick to that formulaof you know, like, um, here's
the living room with a sofa anda chair and a coffee table.
Like you can break that up.
It doesn't all have to face thetelevision.
You've got room to createanother little moment with two
chairs where you can kind of sitin a little table and have your
cup of tea, and that'sorientated a different way and
(31:40):
there's a lamp there.
Those are the things you can doto break up those kind of big,
cavernous, soulless spaces thatyou might end up with in a new
home too.
So true, and I think, just toround that out, it's design
isn't just aesthetics, it'shealth and happiness, 100, 100.
And even if I wasn't a designer, I just know you know in your
(32:02):
core that actually makes adifference, because it's not
just about interiors, it's abouteverything.
It's about the comfort of youknow a handle and the way you
use a stove and the way you opena fridge, like all of those
things are designed and they'vebeen designed to make you feel
better, and you know ergonomics,like all of that stuff.
It's all sort of intertwinedand interrelated.
And when you add interiors intothat and treat it in the same
(32:25):
way, then you just get like abrilliant result from the space.
I think.
So good, brie, I love it.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you, it's been fun.
Bye everyone.
See ya, we've got the utmostrespect for the Wurundjeri
people of the Kulin nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
(32:46):
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
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