Milan in review: Georgina Wilson’s Viral Approach to Architecture

Architect Georgina Wilson joins us to share her remarkable journey from traditional practice to social media phenomenon. What began as a simple experiment on TikTok — "because no one I knew was on it" — unexpectedly transformed her 25-year architectural career and business model. Today, her viral design content reaches hundreds of thousands of followers, and her firm operates "as if from the moon," providing virtual design consultations to clients worldwide.

Georgina's success stems from her refreshingly straightforward approach. Frustrated by how architects typically communicate only with other designers through meaningless jargon, she decided to speak directly to what she affectionately calls "normies" — everyday people who want to understand good design without the pretension. Her content breaks down complex design principles into accessible advice, often featuring floor plans that visually demonstrate why certain layouts work better than others.

Fresh from Milan Design Week, Georgina shares how her perspective has evolved from viewing design through a personal lens to approaching it journalistically, seeking stories that would interest her audience. She was particularly captivated by innovations in lighting design, discovering how new technologies can influence behavior and create versatility in spaces.

What makes Georgina's approach truly inspiring is her philosophy of authenticity and continuous improvement. "It's gotta be shit before it's good," she explains, describing how this mindset frees her from perfectionism and encourages experimentation. This authenticity extends to her design principles — "Interior design is not fashion. If anything, it's anti-fashion" — emphasizing creating environments that remain beautiful and functional for decades, not seasons.

Subscribe for more conversations with design professionals who are changing the industry through innovation and authenticity. Want to improve your own space? Follow Georgina on Instagram for practical design advice that makes a real difference in how you live.

INSTAGRAM @georginawilsonassociates

 WEB: https://www.georginawilsonassociates.com

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Milan Tour 2026

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
okay, so you might know Georgina the same way that
I do.
She pops up on my Instagramfeed with her viral reels, such
as like the the five things I'dnever do, or like the most
common floor plan mistakes I see, and Georgina offers valuable
information and tips on how tobest design spaces in the home,

(00:32):
but also she gives you like thewhy behind it, which I love.
They're also entertaining andshe has like a really natural
style talking to the camera.
So it's kind of like getting afree design consultation and I'm
a bit the same Georgina, thisis the first so it's kind of
like getting a free designconsultation and I'm a bit the
same.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I georgina.
This is the first time we'rekind of properly meeting.
I only fangirl on instagram aswell, um, and it was lauren who
actually said do you followgeorgina?
I know I will now, um, um, butyou're not just all about social
media and being a social mediapersonality.
Obviously there's a backgroundand a history to that, and I

(01:10):
think you've got more than 25years of experience and you're
an award-winning architect anddon't look old enough to have
had that much experience.
I'm quite suspicious.
We're on to you the.
You're the founder of georginawilson associates, correct?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, and you know we'll putthe website in the show notes.

(01:32):
So, if you're listening, go andhave a look at the beautiful
portfolio of projects there.
Yeah, but we wanted to have youon this is our milan series and
we knew you were over there.
We saw all your amazing content, which I think is still rolling
out at the moment, isn't it?
yeah, I assume you capturedquite a lot of great stuff.
So we wanted to talk toAustralians who were, you know,

(01:52):
in Milan, as we were, and geteveryone's kind of point of view
of, you know, their take on it.
Was it your first time in Milan, or have you been before?

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Actually, we went for the first time last year, so
this year was our second timeand, yeah, it was very different
actually because we, in spiteof deciding to go at the very
last minute as you found out,lauren, we I guess last year
when we went, we went with a haton of.
Like you know, we're architectsfrom Australia.

(02:22):
We're just really curious aboutwhat are the latest products
and inspiration and looking forthings like that, I guess.
But I suppose over the pastyear we've started looking at
and producing YouTube content ina more kind of serious way, and
so this year when we went, Ifeel like there's been this
process of kind of figuring outwho we are, and this year it

(02:45):
felt like we were there morewith the intent to sort of
discover as much as we couldabout the designers and the
processes and the new thingsthat were being conceived, and
we really wanted to share thosestories and bring them to life
for our audience.
So I guess it's been a processover the past few years this
sort of transition from justthinking of ourselves as

(03:08):
architects towards maybethinking more about our audience
and how we can bring these sortof very design related concepts
to life in that context.
So this year we had a lot oflike really good access to
people and exhibitions andthings.
I guess we, you know, we wentas press.

(03:29):
So it was a very focused week,very, very busy and, as you say,
we're still rolling out thecontent.
It's quite a bit of work toedit and, you know, refine all
that work as we're finding.
So but yeah, it's sort of wasquite different this year, I
guess with that lens.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, it's a really different lens to look through.
It's, as you say, to lookthrough the lens going, you know
, last year or a few years ago,you know thinking, oh, that's a
great idea I could use for aproject.
Or I wonder if my client wouldlike that.
As, looking at now through thelens of oh, that would look so
great in a reel, or I thinkpeople would be so curious.

(04:08):
Well, it's just interesting.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, and it's funny because last year I was a bit
obsessed with what my opinionwas about the things I was like
do I like that?
Do I think that would be usefulin our designs or this sort of
thing.
But this year it was more likeI guess I see value in
highlighting certain products orpeople or things because it's

(04:33):
of interest, I guess in a more,almost like a journalistic sense
not not exactly, but like justit could be interesting to
someone in the audience for somereason not because I actually
like it necessarily- yeah.
It's interesting or it's, youknow, presenting a certain idea
that maybe should be told youknow.
So yeah, it's a kind ofshifting perspective, I guess.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
You're sort of like looking for the story and you do
it so well.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I feel like it feels to me like you are pretty
much like a journalist.
When you're doing those likeinterviews and talking to people
, you have a presence of someonewho is like an interviewer or a
host, so you kind of lead itquite well.
So it seems to come quitenaturally.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Well, that's nice to hear, because I guess I hadn't
really thought about it likethat until I was in the
situation and because this yearwe were introduced to a lot of
the designers themselves.
We were just there and wealready had a videographer and
we thought, well, let's get themto tell their stories rather
than us trying to, I don't know,put words in their mouth or

(05:34):
something.
And it was so interesting tohear what they had to say.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
It is always, isn't it Cool?

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, because, especially this year, because it
was lighting focus I reallydidn't expect.
I don't know that much aboutlighting, really Like, of course
it's a part of what we do anddesign for, but I guess I
wouldn't call myself aspecialist in lighting by any
means, and so it was reallyinteresting for me because I
learned so much from all theselighting designers and it was a

(06:01):
lot more fun than I expectedactually.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah that's interesting.
So when you say it was a lotmore fun than I expected?
Actually, yeah, that'sinteresting.
So what?
So when you say it was a lotmore fun than you expected, were
you thinking our lighting yearis going to be a little bit like
you prefer?

Speaker 3 (06:11):
to you're a kuchina, which you would have done last
year well, I thought I wouldenjoy kuchina more, but actually
, having now experienced both ofthem, I enjoyed lighting more
and I enjoyed kitchens becauselighting.
I think lighting is having amoment Like it's.
Like all the technology that'scoming to the fore in lighting

(06:31):
is really really making a hugedifference to the way you can do
things with lighting and how itcan create spaces and
atmosphere and manipulate thebehaviour of your guests and
family.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Like it's kind of crazy, of crazy, right?
So you're using lighting tomanipulate people?

Speaker 3 (06:48):
yeah, I was fascinated by that.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I hope it's not like the overhead, like you know what
you did yeah like no.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
There's a different more like more like dim the
lighting and people talk andthey you know, have more
intimate conversations andthings, or then you, you flood
the place with lighting andeveryone energizes and you know.
So it's more and more possiblewhat I believe, like from what I
was told it's now possible tocontrol these elements within

(07:22):
the one fitting and set scenes,and so this sort of capacity for
lighting to influence behaviorand, you know, create
versatility in design justreally appeals to me.
It's like this sort of invisibleconcept, a bit like layout
planning is an invisible concept, but it makes a huge difference

(07:43):
.
So yeah, I kind of felt quitecaptivated by it.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Isn't it cool that you know you can be working as
an architect for 25 years andthen go, and you just never stop
learning.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
There's always something new to learn, I think
the day that you say that oh,I've got this, I've got
everything.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's like that's the end and things change around.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Well, things change around you.
I mean it's over the last fewyears.
I think it's over the last fewyears, I think it's um, and
partly it's probably becausewe're trying to tell so many
stories and video everything andcommunicate.
I mean, I just feel like we'reliving in unprecedented times of
possibility, like thetechnology is just so um yeah,
makes things possible, even, Ithink, back to two years ago,

(08:21):
and the things we're trying todo and, um, now we're able to do
it in a far more seamless way.
Yeah, that's so true.
I think you're right.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I think lighting is having a bit of a moment.
I think it's having a momentyeah, we were talking to Ollie
from Lost Profile and even theway.
So some of his lights are quitesculptural and they border on
being art pieces, but thetechnology behind it means that
they can be more than that.
Yeah, and you know, he wastalking about a few of the
things that he's now able to dowith.

(08:50):
You know, led, as opposed towhat they were doing before with
incandescent, and the abilityto kind of like, I guess, craft
it more in a way and make itexactly what you want it to be.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
And they can control, like colour, temperature and
dim to warm and, like you knowit, it's incredible and the beam
I think they're working on likethe beam of the light as well,
being adjustable to change that?
Yeah, that'd be amazing in theone fitting yeah, so certain
yeah like that was really reallyfascinating yeah did you um go
out to salone?

Speaker 1 (09:21):
did you go out to Salone?
Did you go out to the fair?

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, so this year we went.
Last year we went only one dayand we thought that was
incredibly intense and you knowit was a lot and we thought
that's all that was required.
But this year we went two daysbecause we had to do one day for
lighting and we interviewed alot of people, and so that was

(09:44):
one whole day, and then we didanother whole day on furniture
as well.
So, yeah, it took us a while,but I thought it was.
I guess I've changed in myopinion a bit of it Like last
year, I thought it was just sohectic and just so intense.
I wasn't exactly lookingforward to going back to that
scene again, but it was good forour purposes this year because

(10:07):
everything was just laid out inthe one place and we were able
to get sort of footage of youknow a lot of things, as much as
is possible in one day.
So yeah, it was quite effectivein that sense, I guess.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I think that's the benefit, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
You're still only capturing such a small fraction.
Oh, absolutely, it's just crazyhow it is the benefit.
Yeah, you're still onlycapturing such a small fraction
like it's oh, absolutely,raising how.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
and we were, we were literally running the whole time
and we I feel like, yeah, wedidn't capture nearly everything
, yeah, yeah, I've had days likethat there, because I've gone
down to to one day there usuallyand I just like really have a
very tight list and it is likerunning and I have been at the
end of days there where I'm likeliterally, because I'm usually

(10:47):
with other people I'm like comeon, and when I'm like this at
the end of the thing.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
I just need to tick off these last three things.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
But we actually only did half a day this year.
Oh, that's quite nice.
I think I was the same lastyear.
Yuriko Chino was like the worstI've seen in terms of crowds.
I'm normally pretty good atcapturing, just like being
patient and waiting for a momentto capture something on camera
or whatever it is, and it wasimpossible.
It was just even just to likelook at a draw front or

(11:16):
something.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
you were like trying to push through.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
And then you.
I was very unpleasant, itwasn't fun.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
I think the best thing we did this year that was
different was we got we werepress access, so we had access
to everything in the days beforethe fair opened.
Also, we have a slightly morecumbersome crew, like we work
with a videographer in Milan,and so everything takes us a bit
longer.
Anyway, but it was just.
I was so grateful that we hadthat access, because I went back

(11:45):
to a few things in thefollowing days and you would
have been lining up for fourhours, you know, for like
Artemis and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Well, artemis, I think we worked out, was the
longest wait that year or thisyear.
What I heard, what did it say?

Speaker 1 (12:00):
It looked ridiculous.
It looked ridiculous.
I think, yeah, it wasridiculous, yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
It was insane, Like one day I went back to just pick
up some outside shots and therewere people lined up all around
the block to see that I meanthey were not going to get in
for like five hours.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
So it's yeah, it has become rather crowded.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I think it's just hard because you know can't go
enough time it's just hardbecause you know you don't only
spend all the money to get there.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, you're waiting, yeah, for three hours all day.
It's such a valuable time Idon't know um like absolutely
and I.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
We took a group of designers over to milan, oh
wonderful, did a tour, so, um,we were able to get access
beforehand to that's good to abunch of of places, and I don't
think it was really we justwalked straight in because it
was before it started.
Yeah yeah it wasn't untilafterwards the the ladies on the

(12:57):
the tour were like, oh my god,we didn't realize how great that
was.
Like, yeah, it's.
Yeah, it's pretty tough, isn'tit?

Speaker 3 (13:05):
but I mean, I have to say the art, I think that's why
you do what you're doing islike it's much better to be very
organized about it.
Yeah, you know, not just youcan't really just float around.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
No, yeah, you wouldn't get enough done, times
two and I think if you want tosee those, the ones that have
the long lines, literally everymorning you start at that most
popular one and you get therereally early and you get, you
know, as far up in the line asyou can because it just gets
busier and busier as the daygoes on, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, did you go out to Alcova?
No, no, not this year, no.
Did you go out last yearva?
No, no, not this year, no.
Did you go out last year?
No, we didn't either.
So last year we sort of we didtake a bit of an approach of
like, we will try and record thethings that other people are
not, because, like so manypeople were recording that, we

(14:01):
were like, well, it's been done.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, it's been captured.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
We'll get on and do some other stuff.
So we made that.
We were like well, it's beendone, yeah, it's been captured,
We'll get on and do some otherstuff.
So we made a.
We sort of try actually eachyear to do things that other
people are not so much doing.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's a good strategy.
It's really smart, because Ihave to say that you do see a
lot of the same spaces pop upagain and again, and sometimes
it's not.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
it doesn't mean that they're the best either.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
It just means that they just got saturated with so
many people, they just got thehype, yeah, yeah, I thought it
was interesting.
What you said before was thatyou were also sort of capturing
things that you didn'tnecessarily all like love all of
it, but you were like I stillfeel like I need to share this,
like could you speak on that alittle more?

Speaker 3 (14:46):
I guess, um, because one of the things we've always
really tried to do with ourcontent is talk to people, like
talk to normal people, yeah, um,so not one thing.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I think that you mean outside of the industry.
Is that what you we?

Speaker 3 (15:03):
call them normies.
Oh, that's cute.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Hi to any normies Not muggles, just normal people.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Like not people who are architects or designers.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
I'm not one of the normal people, but for many
different reasons.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
It's cute I think it's.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
It's not meant to be a like a bad thing to be a
normal person.
I I guess I think that theproblem that a lot of design, um
sort of press and that has anddesigners in general, is that
they talk um in a way that toother designers yeah, you know,
they talk, it's like that's toother designers yeah.
You know they talk.
It's like they're sort of.

(15:47):
I don't know if they're showingoff or like or what, but oh,
it's showing off.
I don't know the whole narrativeis about look what I do.
I'm like as a designer, but itseems to be aimed at other
designers.
So I guess what we've alwaystried to do is talk in a way

(16:09):
about design that just makessense to a normal person yeah,
and that's in no way an insult.
So just so that normal peoplecan understand more about design
and have access to this.
So I guess when we go to Milan,our goal is to talk about the

(16:31):
things that we see there andbring it to life for normal
people.
Oh, I love that, not so muchfor other designers who are, you
know, read all the magazinesand whatever.
So it's a bit challengingsometimes, with a really sort of
high-end design event likeMilan, to bring it to a point

(16:54):
where normal people would beinterested.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
you know, it's not just like, hey, I'm having the
best day I'm at a party I'mdrinking Aperol, well I know, oh
my god, so no one cares.
Oh my God, so many great points.
I 100% agree.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
No one cares, guys, You've got like such a huge
following.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Was it 360,000 followers or something on
Instagram?
And you've just nailed it.
That's why Because you'respeaking to people, you're not
just speaking to designers I wasat a lunch the other day.
Do you know kennedy nolanarchitects?
Yeah, um, with rachel nolan.
And um, yeah, he.
I said to her I tried not tofangirl, I tried to be a normie,

(17:33):
but I failed.
She.
I said to her oh, I heard youtalk on this podcast with um
dave shark.
I don't know if you know hispodcast office talk.
Yeah fantastic I've heard of it.
Yeah, he's great, yeah, she, uh.
So she was talking, her andpatrick, exactly about what you
were saying that architects loveto speak in this kind of

(17:56):
language.
That's so, um, you know it's.
It's so much in that bubble,it's what we're sort of taught.
And she's like let's just benormal, let's talk in a normal
language.
And when I looked at yourwebsite, it's very high and
elevated, beautiful projects,but the language is talking to a
client and it's in such a way,it's so smart, the way that

(18:22):
you've just said oh, we offerthis service, we offer that
service.
So if you're, you know, anormal person, you can look at
that and go, oh, here issomebody that can actually help
me and I understand how she canhelp me.
I just thought that was soclever.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's not even like yeah, it's just I guess it was
something that always kind ofpissed me off that none of the
architectural content actuallytalks like.
Most of it actually doesn'tmake any sense at all.
It doesn't say anything.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I struggle with a lot of that stuff too.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
I agree, like it's lovely to be eloquent and be
able to explain things well, butyou don't have to kind of be.
You don't have to use thesestupid words.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Multidisciplinary, anyway, yeah, like
multidisciplinary.
Yeah, I didn't even say awardwinning, yeah, no, yeah, so yeah
, no, I think everyoneunderstands award winning though
it makes me cringe.
It makes me cringe.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
So, me cringe well um so we just kind of wanted to do
things a bit differently it'sreally smart and I guess that,
yes, big to your success, youknow, on terms of you know,
moving into, I guess it's likethat editor content sort of.
Yeah, it's a different, it's adifferent and it's a different
approach, because I think yourInstagram it's not a portfolio

(19:49):
of I've done this and I've donethat.
It offers advice, it offersthought-provoking tips and I I
like some of the spicy ones thatyou put in there.
You know, like the do not dothis, but I think you have to
have an opinion and you have tostand by.
You know, stand by somethingand it's very, um, I don't know

(20:11):
people like to interact withthat, right, oh, yeah man, they
fight like crazy.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, I mean, the way I look at it actually is that,
look, with Instagram you onlyhave 90 seconds to make a point.
And so the way I actually lookat it is it's more freeing to be
able to say to someone look, dowhatever you want, but don't do
this, because I've tried it andit just it will not work if you

(20:40):
do that.
But then there's, you haveevery other possibility to play
with, other than I'm just sayingdon't do this, because this
will really stuff you up, youknow like.
So I find it's a good way totalk in a 90 second kind of
context, um, but I guess inyoutube it's it's a bit

(21:01):
different, which I'm reallylooking forward to, because that
gives me a chance to talk in amore um, detailed and in-depth
way about things yeah but in ininstagram there's not really any
room for nuance.
It's like you're right, you'vegot it and it's quite hard to
like.
Often we'll be making a videoand we're like oh god, like it's

(21:22):
got to fit in 90 seconds.
Trimming it, trimming, trimmingit to get to 90 seconds.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Um so, but you know, yes, that's interesting.
Even in those reels that you do, you back it up with a floor
plan, like in the backgroundthere's a floor plan and you're
like arrows here and here.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
It's like so clever well, but that's, that's another
thing where, like, thetechnology is really helping us,
because you, I remember, whenwe first started a couple of
years ago, we'd, um, I rememberlike trying to record myself
drawing a plan on a piece ofpaper and I had the camera on a
chair, like mounted on a chairabove me, trying to like the

(22:00):
iPhone, like trying to like draw, like what I wanted to show
people and, um, I think I calledmyself Mrs Squiggle or
something like it was so dumband then.
But now like fast forward oflike two years forward and we're
able to video everything we doon iPads, like record screen,

(22:22):
record meetings and stream themacross the world, like it's just
, oh my God, so much easier tobe clear.
And I think I guess one of thethings I'd always thought as
well was that it's very hard torepresent architecture and the
difference between good and badarchitecture and design in just

(22:43):
photographs, like 2D photographsof finished jobs, because you
can show a beautiful picture ofa corner of an architectural
room and it'll look beautiful,but then when you actually look
at the house, it's negligentdesign.
So it's.
I guess I've always just beeninterested in trying to clarify

(23:06):
for the audience how to identifygood and bad and what actually
is it that makes good and baddesign.
So the plan thing really kindof helps.
I've been surprised actually,that people engage with the plan
thing really kind of helps.
I've been surprised actually,that people engage with the plan
so much.
Yeah, I didn't think I thoughtit was just.

(23:27):
I'm a bit of a plan freak and Ialways wanted to make plans
sexy.
I love them.
But I don't know if I'vesucceeded, but I'm a plan freak
and so.
But I was surprised that peoplefull-on engaged with it.
I really didn't expect normiesto want to talk about layouts
and stuff.
I but, yeah, seems like it'sokay as long as you do it

(23:51):
clearly and yeah well, that's it.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
That's the key, isn't it?
Because a lot of normies don'tlook at plans every day and we
forget that when we arepresenting to a client you know,
I don't know, yeah, you have toput yourself in their shoes,
but I think it comes down to youexplaining it in such a clear
way without a split second tospare, to fit it all into 90

(24:14):
seconds.
It's just wild.
So tell us a bit more aboutyour YouTube.
90 seconds, it's just wild.
So tell us a bit more aboutyour youtube.
Um, because I haven't.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Actually I'm not a huge youtube watcher, but uh,
yeah, well, not me either.
But I'm learning so it's like weI think we started our youtube
with milan last year yeah,because we had the opportunity
for the first time to work witha proper videographer and that
was last year and um, then wemade a few videos about that and
then, um, we also started tomake a few videos about some of

(24:46):
the work that we do.
So, like, um, we do sort of alot of services, design services
to people all over the worldnow Cool, and it makes for
really interesting content.
So we talk through case studiesof jobs that we're working on

(25:06):
and just try and bring it downto a really clear again, we're
just finding our way, but that'sbeen sort of successful, I
guess.
Great, and, yeah, we're justtrying things, but it's
interesting.
Youtube is a very big leap,like in terms of production
value and like it's like inevery sense, you've got to be a

(25:28):
lot better.
So we're working on it.
It's the next challenge we'reworking on it, but, yeah, it's
very interesting.
Yeah, because, um, we needbetter videography, better
editing better scripting better.
You know you need to perform itbetter to like carry people for

(25:51):
, say yeah, longer, longer um,like, I went to acting class the
first time a few weeks ago, didyou?
Oh, what was that?
Like it was good actually.
Yeah, it was only a day, likelittle thing, but I'd just never
done anything like that reallybefore.
So, yeah, definitely learned afew things.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
So you know this transition.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Are you doing them now?
What's happening?

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, sorry.
What are the tips?
Are you?

Speaker 2 (26:19):
like actively going, say like you know you're with us
.
Now, is there anything cominginto your head that's like oh,
I've learnt this and I'm goingto do it like this now?

Speaker 3 (26:29):
She's only had one class, oh actually, yeah, I've
only had one class one day, butyeah for sure, like, well, it's
not so much the same right now,because we're I don't know.
It's a bit of a weird situationin that we're all on screens
and whatever.
I'm sure there's an application.
But you know, normally whenyou're presenting it's sometimes

(26:52):
it's like what do you do withyour hands?
Um, you know, the neutral kindof posture helps.
And also I like the way theysaid um, when you're talking to
a crowd, talk to a person at atime, so like, pick one person
and give them the full thoughtand then move on.
Otherwise you look a bit, Idon't know, like you're not

(27:14):
getting any engagement.
That's a good time, but it'syeah, I guess it's a little
little like you're not gettingany engagement.
That's a good tip, but it'syeah, I guess it's a little
different when you're justtalking to cameras and stuff.
But one thing they did say thatwas incredibly interesting was
that apparently, when you'regiving any kind of presentation,
what you actually are sayinglike the words of what you're

(27:35):
saying is only about, representsonly about eight percent of the
message that is received, likethe rest is I think I don't know
it might have been 15 or 20percent is your vocal range and
then the rest is all visual, soyour body language, all that
sort of stuff.
so that's so I thought that wasinteresting because if you don't

(27:57):
get the big ones right, likeyou're really distracting in
your body language or something,no one will ever hear what you
say.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
So oh, so interesting way.
So with your work, you know, asan architect.
When did you think you knowwhat I'm going to start talking
to the camera?
How did that start?
People find it terrifying to doit, which it is, but I guess
the more you do it it's easier.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Well, I don't know, yes and no.
So like when I first started, Iwould have been the last person
you would expect to do this.
Like, really I hated publicspeaking and all that sort of
thing.
But, um, I was just curiousabout that idea that I spoke to
you about before, where itseemed like architects were

(28:47):
talking to themselves and therest of the world was talking
together about design and thingsand I just saw so much rubbish
being put up.
I just couldn't believe it.
I was like that's just notright and people were having
this conversation.
That was just so dumb.
I just couldn't.

(29:08):
I was like but you know, youcan't bitch about something
unless you're going tocontribute.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I agree.
I love it.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
I was just curious about whether people would be
interested in a realconversation about good design,
and I guess I was also looking alittle bit for a way to assist
the 99% of the sort of worldthat doesn't have access to an
architect or doesn't want it oryou know, there's so many people

(29:37):
building and optimising theirhomes without the help of a
designer.
I was just wondering if therewas a way to maybe assist that
part of the world.
Anyway, all these ideas arejust going through my head and
in the end we just started.
It was just the most randomthing.
We just picked up a phone oneday and answered a question on

(30:01):
TikTok and we just started doinga few little videos on TikTok
because no one I knew is onTikTok I'm too old for TikTok,
so no one I know was on it.
So it was like this secret andum, just started doing it and
very quickly, before I kind ofknew what was happening, one of
the videos went viral and, um,it was kind of a bit weird, um,

(30:26):
because I didn't know what washappening.
It so got like three millionviews overnight, sort of thing
and I was like oh, um, it was, Ithink, initially like there was
some small ones about plugs andlike something really dumb, um,
anyway.
And so this little video gotlike three million views.

(30:48):
It was me talking aboutsomething and, um, I was like at
first I thought I should turnit off because this is scary, I
don't know what's going on.
And then I thought, actually,you know what, now I've done it,
I'm already doing it, talkingin front of the camera, which
I'd always.

(31:08):
I wouldn't have done it if I'dthought about it.
And then I thought, now I justneed to get better, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
So I just will commit to doing it every week and, um,
getting better each time inwhatever way I can think of well
, I mean, I think, your exampleabout drawing the floor plan
with the chair and the overhead,like you've got to start
somewhere and I think you couldget really held back starting
because you're like it has to beperfect and it has to get three
million views.
I think you can just put itsomewhere right.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Like we have a saying in our office and it's like
that it's got to be shit beforeit's good, and so we have
absolutely the expectation thatthings are going to be shit,
like you'll try, start doingsomething, you'll be shit at it,
but you have to go through theshit to get good.
Yeah, that's so true, and in theend, it stops that paralysis of

(32:02):
like yeah, so we do.
Nowadays we do all sorts ofthings that I would never have
thought we would do.
Like what?
Like I'm well, I mean just thefact that, like I don't know,
like the projects that come inthe door, or like even you know
being talking with you guys andyou're from Melbourne, yeah,
yeah, who would have thought?

(32:22):
you know who would have thoughtwe'd be here today you know,
this is really cool orinterviewing Maya Davis in Italy
and like, what am I doing here?
Like it's just?

Speaker 1 (32:34):
incredible.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
It's really cool, it's so fun, so fun.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
I think you get this.
Yeah, I get the sense.
You're so natural talking tothe camera.
You've got to enjoy it.
You've got to have fun likeyou've got to just lean in and
yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Well, and I think the more relaxed you become, the.
But you know I treat it a bitlike fitness, like I think I've
got to stay.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
I keep forcing myself to do it every week, just so I
don't get too in my head aboutit or, yeah, too freaked out
about it it's gotta be shitbefore it'll be shit, but
doesn't matter whatever I'mgonna say I think I'll take that
saying on, because I I'm one ofthose people who definitely get

(33:17):
the paralysis of the curse ofthe perfectionist kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I tell you what life's much more fun when you
just accept that you're going tobe shit, like we laugh about it
all the time.
That was pretty shit, butwhatever You'll be good soon
You'll be better Next timeyou'll be better.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I guess it's also just not taking yourself too
seriously, right?
Like it's also just not takingyourself too seriously, right
Like it's not.
We're not curing cancer.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
It's supposed to be fun what we do as well, it's fun
and like, yeah, I mean that Ithink that is a sort of side
effect of being so much onsocial media and stuff, like
it's quite, it's sort of brutal,you know.
Yeah, you just can't.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
You can't take it, just can't.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
You can't take it too seriously, otherwise it's like
whatever, you probably yeah yeah, you end up in a deep,
depressed hole yes, um, I wasgonna say so.
You mentioned interviewing.
Did you say maya davis?
Yeah, was there a favorite kindof moment when you were doing
all of the content in Milan,like of you know, meeting

(34:21):
someone or interviewing?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:22):
I really liked talking to them.
They were really cool because Iguess they just felt quite
aligned because they talked alot about circulation and
designing a space with that inmind, which I really, which I
just resonated with, I suppose.
And another person I reallyliked meeting was, I think, her

(34:46):
name's Ferruccio Levani.
She was doing some work withFoscarini, oh yeah, and she does
some beautiful work with colour.
So that kind of reallyfascinated me, because I'm not I
don't think I'm much good withthat sort of thing.
She's really like exuberantwith the colour and like bold
with it.

(35:06):
So that kind of I found thatfascinating.
And I also really enjoyedtalking with the CEO of Occhio I
don't know if you've heard ofhim, the lighting brand, with
the CEO of Occhio.
I don't know if you've heard ofhim the lighting brand.
He was, yeah, reallyinteresting just talking about
those ideas, about manipulatingpeople's behaviour with lighting

(35:27):
.
And I thought, oh, that's justreally cool.
And another person I guess I'vegot to know a bit over the last
few years is Gabriel Salvatore.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
And he's just a lovely fellow and, yeah, very
generous with his time andthings, so we had a really nice
conversation, yeah.
So yeah, there were fascinatingpeople.
I'm trying to think who else,but yeah, just a real varied
smorgasbord of reallyinteresting people, so fun.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
We had pretty um cool chance encounters with people
oh yeah who did you meet?
Oh, I just caught up withpatricia ericiola.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I mentioned that, lauren I didn't really run into
lauren's a good spotter ofpeople too.
I think I'm like busy like withmy head somewhere, and she's
like look, there's x, there'sXXX.
Oh, I know.
Although I did get us a littlemeet and greet with Rosanna
Orlandi, didn't I?
Oh yeah, that was great.
That was my big one.
I was fangirling though.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Oh yeah, she is gorgeous.
It's interesting, Georgina,like you mentioned that, you
know your work through thesocial media and content
creation has opened other doorsthat you didn't expect.
Are there any other things thathave come up, Any other
opportunities?

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Oh look, I mean, it's completely transformed the
business.
So, yeah, don't even know howto describe that.
That's crazy.
It's like it just exploded thebusiness like blew it up, and
now we're sort of trying to putit back together in a way that
makes sense with the sort ofglobal reach and, effectively,

(37:10):
pipelines that we have.
So there's sort of an elementof e-commerce, I guess, coming
into this, which I knew nothingabout before and is really
fascinating to learn about.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, what do you mean?
How do you offer?

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Well, like sales pipelines and things, so like we
, I guess.
Because so we started talkingon social media, as you know,
and that probably about twoyears ago or no more than that,
maybe almost three, and for thefirst year we were just talking
and I don't know we didn't makeany dollars out of it or
anything like that.

(37:43):
But then as the sort ofcommunity grew, we started to.
Well, people just startedreaching out more and more with,
like, requests for help, cool,and people from all around the
world, obviously because, like Ididn't expect this, I thought
that the effect would be morelocalized somehow.

(38:04):
I don't know why I thought that, but, as it happens, the
audience is really global.
So people started reaching outasking for help and things.
So we developed our layoutreview offering so smart.
That's where we started, and now, like we've done hundreds and
hundreds of like I don't evenknow how many done lots and lots

(38:26):
and lots over the past year?

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Do you do them yourself or does your team do it
?

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Well, we've got a team, the team's really great
and so I'm involved.
Yeah, and I do.
I don't't know, I do some ofthem and yeah, it's evolving as
we speak.
But, um, yeah, so I'm involved,I do.
I've probably done the majorityof them in just in a design
sense, not in everything sense,um, so, yeah, um, so that was

(38:57):
the first thing and then um, sothat's just kind of grown and
evolved into.
Nowadays we're doing lots morefull concept designs for people
all over the world, so we liketo think of ourselves as if
we're located on the moon.
And how would we and how wouldwe sort of provide assistance to

(39:17):
people if we were located onthe moon?
You know, how would you do it,because it can't be localised.
So that's been interesting andI guess in terms of
opportunities it's just brought.
You know, like the other, justbefore I was designing a house
in Colorado, out of town, thenyesterday in Sweden and in the

(39:42):
UK and like across.
Australia, and so it's likewe're even designing a boat,
Like so, it's like that, that'sI mean.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, so social media is really the thing that's made
you a more like global companyin a way.
Right, yeah, that's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Because I guess once you have the audience you're
thinking how can you sort ofassist people at that scale?
So it's still not a questionwe've completely, just sort of
successfully answered, but we'rejust working our way through it
and we'll see.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
It's so inspiring.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I feel like it's going pretty well.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah Well, it's super stimulating.
So the sales thing comes in andthe pipelines and things when
you like.
We started to get more and morevolume of inquiry yeah, and had
to get much more organized withhow we process that and um,
yeah, so that's absolutelyfascinating as well, digital

(40:49):
marketing, and yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
It's a whole other world, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (40:54):
it's a whole other world.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, well, I think during COVID when the expert
came out?
Are you familiar with theexpert?

Speaker 3 (41:00):
yeah, yeah, it sort of made that, um, e-design,
e-commerce.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
It felt elevated and it was really exciting to see
that presented in such abeautiful way.
And it's really interestingbecause, um, I'm kind of
shifting my mindset a little bitas well, because, you know, I
like to offer full service, butnot everybody needs that and
actually, it's reallyinteresting because I've I've
been designing for 20 years orso as well yeah, a while.

(41:31):
Yeah, that it's.
It's it's now that I feelreally confident taking on those
kind of consultations, becauseit's almost flipped.
It's like when you're a juniorand you're just starting out,
you think you could just do aone-hour consultation, but I
feel like, no, I really neededto sit with the client or sit by
myself and figure stuff outbefore I gave a solution.
But now I'm like, well, I'vekind of learned a lot of things

(41:53):
along the way that it's so mucheasier to now give a one-hour
consultation and really move thedial.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
I think so.
Yeah, I think that's that's.
One thing I've really noticedis that you develop.
When you do like bajillions ofdesigns like we have because
we've been in practice for solong you develop a fluency with
it that makes it possible foryou to talk on like sort of we

(42:22):
call it sort of surprise design,when you kind of just get
confronted with a plan andyou've got to do it on the spot.
So, like I was talking to oneof my colleagues the other day
and they were saying you've done, you know, bajillions of
designs over the last two years,say, do you feel like you're
getting any?
Oh all?

Speaker 2 (42:42):
right.
Hang on, mute myself for asecond they were like coughing
dom's coughing.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
They were saying do you feel like you've got any
better at it?
And I was like, oh, not really.
But then, when I think about it, it's that fluency that allows
me now to um live stream aworkshop across the world and do
the design and talk it throughat the same time, you know so
it's like and all of that's nowstarting to happen and be

(43:11):
possible because of thetechnology and the reach, and so
it's all.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting,super fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
You know, you looked at, as you said, a bajillion
floor plans and you yourselfbeing a floor plan freak, was
that the right term?

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yeah, totally yeah, we're all freaks about that, you
just know the things to lookout for, don't you?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
You sort of get so used to seeing the same old
things with a toilet, thepatterns you can see a toilet
from the kitchen or you can seethere's no way to put the TV.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Like, just like the things that you know.
I don't know that.
We've seen a lot of things overthe last two years and we see a
lot of people's work.
We see, like you know, so manyplans and designs and homes.
I just feel kind of a little bitdisturbed at the level of

(44:15):
design quality that I see andlike it's a bit confronting, I'm
not quite sure how to, I guess,maybe have a bigger impact,
because there's no way that weas a team or you know, like it's

(44:35):
just no way that you can fixthe quantum of problem or the
amount of design problems thereare in the world.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
So that sort of bothers me, I do.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
I feel a bit every time I think about it I just
feel a little bit confrontedbecause I think it's just, I
don't know quite what to doabout it yet.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
So, maybe I'll figure that out.
I don't know what to do aboutit yet, but I'm going to work
this out and I'm going to fixthe whole thing.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
It's a trip right now , but I'm going to fix it.
I think you really like.
You know it's such a huge, biggap between the everyday mum and
dad, the normie, and somebodywho has the budget to work with

(45:23):
an architect.
There's such a huge gap inbetween and there are not a lot
of architects of your calibrewanting to address that.
So I really think that'sabsolutely so awesome and I do
get that sense.
It bothers you so much, butthat must just keep you so
driven to make a difference.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, it's driving you in the background.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I wonder yeah, it's driving you in the background, I
wonder, yeah, I wonder yeah, wedid try and release, like, for
example, a course, and that'sbeen interesting.
So maybe education or maybeit's just YouTube?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Maybe it's just YouTube, I don't know that
you'll ever be able to fix itall only because, I mean, I
think you're probably alreadymaking a really big difference
and I think education isprobably the thing.
So if you are building and youdon't have maybe it's a spec
build or maybe it's directly tothe builder or whatever and you
really don't have the I don'tknow the knowledge or the

(46:15):
ability to have someone on boardto make sure it's right, at
least you're kind of giving themsome insight, even if it's like
guidance questions to ask,whatever it is, because I'm the
same it infuriates me to see andI think that probably the root
of the problem why you won'tever properly fix it is is is
capitalism right?

(46:35):
it's, like you know, building toturn things over and maybe not
like it's making it just makingit cheaper, and it's like it's
so annoying.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
It's so annoying, though, because I always say
like it costs the same yeah yeahto put things in the wrong spot
, as it does to put in the rightspot right, you're still
building a kitchen.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I think it's laziness because they want to keep just
like cookie cutter, and that'swhere it sort of falls down.
So it's like you know, let'sjust replicate it's sold and we
made money, why would we do itany different?
So there's like they don'tthink it's broke from their
perspective and we can see it'sreally broke.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
I guess that's what I try and do with the reels is
like just, I don't know, shockpeople enough to get them to go,
huh like does it really have tobe that way?

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Or?
Maybe you know, like, maybejust do it a different way, or
think about it a bit You'rebasically grabbing them by the
shoulders and shaking them.
Yeah, just like shake them.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, no, totally Like smack them around a bit.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, I don't know just totally Like smack them
around a bit.
Yeah, I don't know Just wake up.
Yeah, I don't know.
You've probably impacted somany people that you could not
even imagine just with some ofyour words of advice there.
So I think that Three millionapparently.
Yeah, that was just one reel onTikTok, exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Don't even remember what it was about.
Yeah, what I was talking about.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I feel like I'm going to go into your TikTok now
tonight when I'm doom scrollingand just like trying to all the
way back.
Oh God, it's going to beembarrassing.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
Go right back to the like.
Ooh, the first ones I have to.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Now it's going to be in my head I'm going to decide
what your next topic is going tobe?
Does it come from that?
Oh, that bothers me so much.
I have to talk about it yeah,oh, absolutely.
Okay, cool, so like today.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
I was just just before I got on this.
I was like I was just walkingaround outside and I was.
I've said the same thing tothree clients today, and this is
true that interior design isnot fashion.
If anything, it's anti-fashion.
You know, when I just said thisto the camera on the street,

(48:44):
I'm like you know, the focus ison creating an environment that
is going to be beautiful andtimeless and functional for the
next 20 years of your life, notsomething that can be easily
replaced every two years whenyou get sick of it, and I would
argue, though, that I thinkfashion's already moving in that
direction too.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
You know, I guess it comes back to that
sustainability element thatpeople are a lot more conscious
of the fact of like wheresomething's made when you buy it
.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Do I love it because I love it, or do I?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
love it because I saw five other people influence,
like wearing it or something andyou know, obviously things turn
around, but I like, I havestuff in my wardrobe, even just
recently, that I've pulled outand worn in Milan.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
That is like 10 years old, so I love the rediscover.
Yeah, yeah, isn't that great.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, because it's like new, but you didn't have to
spend any money on it.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Totally Love that.
Yeah, haven't worn it for 10years.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I do think there's a shift and I think you know
interiors and fashion, I think,are quite connected in terms of,
I guess, lifestyle and cycle,and the reason why things happen
within that industry is oftensimilar influence.
And I do think, sustainabilityis something that's, I guess,
being looked at in both areasWell that's a positive way of

(50:05):
thinking of it.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I just I guess actually being in Milan made me
think more about sort of theplace of fashion and trends in
design, and I guess I alwaysthink of design as really
wanting to make our own designstimeless, because I think of it
as a, I think of it as more than20 years anyway.
I think of it like,architecturally, your house will
be standing in 100 years, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Well, you hope so right.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Interior-wise, maybe it's a 20-year sort of equation,
but you know, I was justperplexed about like so what's
the place then of trend?
You know, like everyone always,asks me, what are the trends,
you see, and I'm like, well, youknow, I mean, personally, I
think it really has to besomething timeless that's
presenting as a long-lastingkind of theme.

(50:54):
But anyway that I found myselfsaying this sort of dumb thing
to three clients in a row, and Ithink that's I guess they're
just things like that that comeup.
What were you saying?
you know, three clients exactly.
Oh, the thing about interiordesign not being fashion not
being fashion like because likeI was talking to clients and

(51:14):
literally three times in one dayI was having that same
conversation.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
So and that's really something else.
Like I think that, um, I guessI might would know that I am a
train forecaster, but thatdoesn't mean that I it's more of
an, it's more just observingwhat is happening and trying to
yeah, you know, yeah, where it'sgoing yeah, but my whole take
on the whole trends thing,because I'm not a fast fashioner

(51:42):
and I don't think that youshould be creating an interior
or spending a whole heap ofmoney just because it's on trend
.
I don't believe in that at all.
I believe it helps peopleexplore what they like and don't
like when they are in themoment of doing their interior
and they see things and they getgreat examples, because a lot

(52:03):
of people just don't know and Ialso think that sorry, I've got
kids talking in the background.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
It's a kid.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
I've realised that after 3.30.
Maybe isn't a good time for meat home doing the podcast on
Friday.
Yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah, so,uh, with with trends as well,
that they're.
They're more just like ainspiration point and, um, I
don't know, an exploration ofwhat's possible is kind of how.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I look at it and I would never encourage a client
to.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
I guess the bottom line for me is, if you need to
love it and it needs to resonatewith you and it needs to work
in your home and that isn'talways the case, and I don't
think you can also either justchoose a particular trainer,
sort of jump on board you needto be like this works for me,
this works for me, this worksfor me and this works for me,
but none of these other thingsdo so.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
It's very hard to kind of like you know, follow a
formula.
You've got to be able to say noto different things Like
sometimes our clients will love,like I don't know, 50 images or
something and they're alldirectly contradicting each
other.
I don't know 50 images orsomething, and they're all
directly contradicting eachother.
Oh God, that's the worst.
So, like I kind of usually, Iforce people at a certain point
I'll say okay, now you get threeimages.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, I do that too.
Oh, I like that Go.
I actually say five.
I need to use that Only at acertain point.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
I usually try and work it out myself.
Only at a certain point, onlyat, but it's a good point
because it is confusing and youcan.
I think, because it becomesoverwhelming.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Well, we see so much now.
We didn't used to see as much.
Now we see everything.
And if you're in that spacewhere you're thinking about your
home and you don't.
I think it's fear-based andthat's the problem.
You don't want to make amistake.
So you're like going oh, but Ilike this and I like this and I
like this.
So you have to kind of takethat away and you go.
Don't worry about what you'remissing out on.
Worry about what you love Likewhat is the thing that you

(54:00):
really love and that's whatyou've got to kind of run
towards.
You know.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
But I think sometimes people don't know what they
love, and so they see what theJoneses are doing and what
everyone's doing.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
What's on?

Speaker 1 (54:09):
trend and go.
I think that other people saythat's good, so I also think
it's good.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Yeah, that's good.
So I also think it's good.
Yeah, but, um, georgina, I finda good way.
I do find one good way to sortthat out is we put together like
the mood boards and things andwe throw in like decoys so like
the thing that's like they'regonna say I hate that and then
from there you get their peopleare.
They find it easier to say whatthey hate than what they love,

(54:41):
and so that helps us reallynarrow down on what it is that
they don't want Could backfirewhat they do it's actually a
marketing.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
It's an actual, real marketing ploy.
So if you've ever worked withagencies before which I've done
lots of work with they actuallywhen they do, concepts will
usually have there's a term forit.
I think I was going to saywhite elephant, it's something.
It's not elephant in the room,but there's a term for it.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Something to do with an elephant.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
They present one that they really believe the client
isn't going to like, so thatthey lean into the one that they
want them to go for.
It can backfire.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
I've seen it, but I feel like I feel like, though,
we don't ever put anything upthat like we wouldn't do if the
like, if the client was like ohno, I want a really high
contrast interior with, likeblack.
You know, I want it to bereally dark.
That's fine, it's just has ithas to be that, but really well
done.

(55:41):
Yeah so but I, I guess we kindof have in our mind, like we
suspect the client is going togo for one, a different one, but
yeah, I hope you know yourclient well enough too, right.
And if it ever happened, itactually doesn't bother me
because it's not my home butit's more.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, we just want a clear direction.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, you want to get a yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
So we prevent a bit.
We call it a provocativeprocess.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I'm gonna go hang out in your office for a while.
You guys have some goodconversations.
We have all these little terms.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
I'm loving it actually this okay, we
experiment a lot.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
That's what you need to do.
You need to do like a book withall the different terms and
what they mean from yourperspective.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Oh my gosh.
Architectural definitions.
Yes, it's just going to be aglossary of terms.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yep.
It's architecture translated tophenomies, phenomies,
architectural phenomies.
It's serious for normies.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Architect it's architectural normies.
Yeah, sounds like an insult,but it's really not.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
No, really not meant to be.
No, no, no, no, yeah, um, can Iput you on the spot and ask you
a question?
Yeah, we've got any designerslistening and architects.
Can you give us a couple oflike, like social media tips?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
um okay, yeah, um sure I'm.
It's funny I'm not a specialist.
Really well, I don't think ofmyself as a specialist maybe
you've accidentally ended upbeing a specialist.
I've accidentally learned a fewthings, though well, you know,
I was like I found out what asmrmeant.
Do you know what that?

(57:16):
I didn't know what that meant.
I didn't know what that means.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I love a bit of ASMR.
I didn't know what ASMR meant.
I've got a 12 and 11-year-old.
I know what that is.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Do you know what ASMR means?
No, I think my biggest tipwould be just start Okay that's
cool.
I would also say start onsomething like TikTok, because I
don't know, look, if you'rereally young, maybe all your
friends are on it, but if you'rea bit older, like me, no one

(57:45):
you know will be on TikTok.
Love that.
So it's not embarrassing in theslightest.
It's like just this secretexperiment.
And the other good thing aboutTikTok is that the feedback loop
on TikTok is really fast andreally aggressive.
So if something does well onTikTok, it's going to really do

(58:06):
well on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, that's so interesting.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Shorts is a bit different, but whatever.
But TikTok, I feel likesometimes we use it as a bit of
an experiment dumping ground.
So we will put a reel there ifwe're not quite sure and then
see whatever, like the ferociousfeedback that comes back.
You know I hate you.
You're stupid ugly, did youhave?

Speaker 1 (58:31):
TikTok, TikTok's really vicious isn't it.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
It's really vicious but it gives you just this
really good feedback loop, youknow like are you boring or are
you capturing someone?
Are you getting some traction?
That's a great tip, so it'sfast yeah, so I think that's
what I do, I guess.
Also, I don't know if I thinksocial media really is for

(58:58):
everyone, is that not?

Speaker 1 (59:00):
what I'm going to say .

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Decide if you need to do it, not everybody needs to I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Well, I mean, I do think I don't know like it's
been absolutely critical for us,but at some point along the way
I don't know exactly when, um,we decided that we really enjoy
it and we really commit to itand like it's a huge commitment.
Like I don't.

(59:26):
I don't sort of see it likethat, because I enjoy it and
it's fun and I'm like it's newand exciting and all the rest of
it, but it's um, it is a hugecommitment.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
I'm sure it wouldn't be for everyone, but um, I think
it's really hard when you Imean, I know obviously you
you've got a business and you'vegot um a team I think it's
really hard when there's one ofyou, or even two of you, to
dedicate the time and obviouslyyou've made it quite a big part
of your business but, even inthose initial stages you've got

(59:58):
to have, like you said, committo it and do something every
week or whatever it is, and havethat consistency.
I think that's where it'sreally hard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
And I think also like look, we struggled for years
and years before we before thelast say three years, like I'd
the last say three years, likeI'd been running this business
for 15 years.
So it's like prior to that we'dreally struggled with the sort
of style of social media thatwas around before then.
It was like all little picturesof beautiful moments and like

(01:00:28):
honestly.
I think it's bullshit.
It's kind of it's lies.
What you really think it's lies.
I think it's bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
It's kind of it's lies what you really think.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Lies.
I think Well, I think it reallyis lies.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's 100%.
Every photo shoot is a lie ofsome kind.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
It's a lie right, and I've had to get over that.
So that's what I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Are you over it, though Deep down.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
No, but I am over it deep down.
No, but no, but I am.
I've had to get over it becauseI've had to learn how to have
photo shoots of my own work thatare more successful.
Yeah, and I've had to learn toplay the game right, you know
that I could I think the problemis the normies think it's real.
We know it sort of not, and Iwant to, kind of, I want to be

(01:01:12):
more transparent than that.
So.
But I have learned a lot alongthe way.
I think I used to be a sort ofa reverse snob, like I'd be like
this is lies, because I didn'treally get it.
I didn't understand.
I didn't understand anythingabout all that.
Well, okay, so, but we, westruggled for many, many years
when we were a smaller team andwe had local jobs and I guess in

(01:01:37):
the end I got a bit bored and Ikind of I don't know.
I just really wanted to dothings differently.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I love that.
And so that's how it happened.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
So I guess for people who are sort of in a small you
know business and it's justthemselves, it is very difficult
to give it the sort ofcommitment that it needs.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
I guess.
But TikTok's a good testingground to see if you can maybe
find something that people givea shit about, Like if they
actually if it resonates withpeople.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
You know, and I would say also, the moment we started
talking, like just sayingactually what we think and how
we feel and like being a bitmore honest that's when the fire
started.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, having an opinion about something,
authenticity, actually sayingsomething, not using all these
meaning like meaninglessarchitectural lingo.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Yeah, and just like I don't know.
Yeah, I have a sort of have apoint of view, have a.
You don't have to be like um,contrarian or anything, but just
whatever it is, whatever's yourthing like.
Yeah, I would say, the morehonest you are, the more
authentic you are, the morelikely you are to find your

(01:02:57):
stride Like.
The other thing we say in theoffice is that everyone's got a
superpower.
It's just, you know, we alwaystry and uncover what people's
superpower is when they areworking with us and you know,
it's fascinating how everyone'sdifferent and they have a
different superpower.
I guess, yeah, for us.

(01:03:19):
Just somewhere along the way,we realised that, yeah, this is
really something we want to beserious about.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
It's so great.
It's kind of like you've, it'slike you're free of all of that
other stuff and you can just dowhat you want to do.
Don't worry about what otherdesigners and what other
architects I've sort of I'm notreally worried about what they
think.
You know, it's the clients thatI want to work with.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Actually, to be honest, I don't really know.
I mean I don't.
I mean I've got friends,obviously, in the architecture
industry.
But yeah, actually that'sinteresting that you say that
I'm not sure what architects anddesigners really think about
what we do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Well, I didn't mean to say it like that.
I'm not sure You're just doingyour own thing and you're not
following anyone.
You're actually leading the wayin this different type of, I
guess, essentially marketingit's well, it's all a big
experiment, right?

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
yeah, I don't know, you don't try.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
If you don't try, you don't know what could happen.
So how?
Do you split your time betweenthe content versus working on
projects.
It's a good question um, youknow what?

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
it's a really good.
That's a really good question,because in the beginning it was
like we'd do one afternoon offilming a week and one afternoon
of sort of scripting and youknow ideas and thinking of what
we're going to do, sort ofplanning for it, um, and.
But I would say that's got more, it's become more.

(01:04:53):
But the other thing that'shappening is, um, so, like I'm
doing I probably do, I don'tknow god like a lot of days of
the week I feel like I've got acamera in my face, um, these
days in some one way, shape orform.
Um, but the other thing that'sinteresting, that I'm really
curious to see how this evolves,is I find that the work and the

(01:05:17):
content is becoming more linked, like I don't know.
I feel like there's anopportunity to say we do
meetings with people whereverthey are in the world and we
call them workshops, and so theinteresting thing is because we

(01:05:37):
can now share the iPad andactually workshop things on a
screen together and I'm drawingas we talk it through.
The response to that kind ofengagement has been really
interesting.
People just love it.
Cool.
It is like Mr Squiggle.
They can talk through what theywant to try and I can draw it

(01:06:01):
for them and we can talk aboutwhy it doesn't work or does work
or whatever, and then we recordthese sessions and beam them
back across the world.
And I've been starting to thinkit would be interesting to
start to cut out clips of thosesort of occasions for content.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
You know, and then maybe even live stream certain
things.
So like, yeah, that's why I wasgetting more advanced equipment
, because we need better quality, yeah, yeah, better quality of
everything.
So we'll see.
Oh, it's so exciting Becausethat would be so cool if we
could actually make the contentmore directly from the work that

(01:06:48):
we do, because I'm sure a lotof people would like to see how
our clients are making a familyhome out of a houseboat yeah,
you know, oh my god, or how howdonut house in Sweden is coming
along, like you know.
I think a lot of people would beinterested in that oh, I
completely, I agree, you knowlike it's just crazy and

(01:07:09):
interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
So yeah, oh, it's so great, so I don't know I guess
you've sort of answered my lastquestion, which was what's next
for georgina?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
wilson associates world domination solving the
world, getting rid of theterrible design eradicating bad
eradicating that time in theworld.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
She's on the moon, just small.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Yeah, we're on the moon and we're acting for the
world, so who knows?
I don't know.
That's why it's fun.
It's so fun.
Who knows where we'll be in sixmonths or a year?
Yeah, but I do want to do moreYouTube, so we'll be working on
it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
So exciting.
Yeah, thank you so much Noreenthis has been such a fun
discussion.
It's so good to know you alittle bit.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
I only wish we had a drink, Like it's Friday evening.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I know we should have .

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
We should have had a drink and like I wish we were
actually together.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
We will do that though We'll catch up.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
We'll probably have you back One day.
Yeah, one day.
Well, if I'm in Melbourne, I'lllet you know.
Do we can actually likephysically be in the same place.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Yeah, that would be lovely, that would be amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Yeah, Then lovely to meet professionals you know it
is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Oh, it's great to talk to someone who's just very
authentic.
And yeah, straight talker,that's what we are.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
so, yeah, yeah, it does make it fun, I can sense
that you'll like that I hope.
So yeah, you can edit out anybits you want?

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Yeah, Sweet Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Georgina.

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
Anyway, well, have a lovely evening and a.