June 11, 2025 • 38 mins
The beautiful chaos of Milan Design Week comes alive through the fresh eyes of first-time attendee Alvin Wu, brand manager at Niche Media. What began as a career in interior design evolved into finding his true passion within the design community—organizing events like the "30 Under 30" program that recognizes emerging design talent through mentorship and a creativity retreat in Bali.
Drawn to Milan with the hope of experiencing a quieter edition during a non-Euroluce year, Alvin quickly discovered the reality: design week has surpassed fashion week in popularity, with half a million visitors descending upon a city not quite built for such numbers. The notorious three-hour queues for installations like L' Appartamento by Artemest contrast sharply with the magical moments found in unexpected places—like sitting beneath trees at Alcova, a welcome respite from the urban intensity.
For Australian designers on the global stage, Milan represents both challenge and triumph. Ross Gardam and Articolo showcased lighting innovations that drew gasps of appreciation, proving the calibre of design talent from down under. These moments of national pride punctuated Alvin's evolving appreciation for lighting design, which has now become his "top category" of interest. Standing in the Molteni showroom, witnessing how strategic lighting transformed entire spaces, revealed how transformative thoughtful illumination can be.
The true value of Milan, Alvin discovered, transcends products and installations. "My biggest takeaway is definitely the networking experience," he reflects. "At the end of the day, no matter what role you play in this industry, we are all one community." While products change annually, the connections formed during these intense, inspiration-filled days create lifelong relationships that ultimately shape the design world more profoundly than any single object ever could.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi everyone.
We are with Alvin Wu today andboth of us know Alvin pretty
well, particularly because weactually were traveling with him
in April and got to spend sometime with him.
But before that I had met youbefore last year's Saturday,
indesign, I can't remember where, just probably.
(00:22):
Oh, it was Michael's house, afriend, friend of ours.
His birthday, he had a houseparty and that's when I first
met Alvin and I think you werewearing like the sequin outfit,
was it.
Anyway, I was very taken by himin this fashion sense and we
didn't spend a lot of timetogether then and then we really
(00:42):
got to know each other a bitbetter.
Last year at Saturday in Designin Sydney I ran into you at
Colt and I was with my dearfriend Ming and she was driving
and we were going to the nextthing and I just said, do you
want to come?
And you went, oh, would that beokay?
And then you spent the day withus and it was absolutely lovely
.
So, yeah, and more times havebeen had since.
But that's how I know, alvin,what about you, lauren?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, Alvin, it's so good to talk because we were in
Milan the last time we werehanging out, right?
Oh, I'm going to be droppingthat into conversations until
2026.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Just dropping that in .
We were just in Milan hangingout.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I think I sort of got to know you a little bit, got
to know your face, at least fromInstagram and then we caught up
for drinks one time and I waslike, oh, this is Alvin.
I'm like, oh my God, he has thebest hair I've ever seen.
And then it was just so fun tohang out together.
I think that you know tointroduce you properly a little
(01:41):
bit, so it's really interestingthat you know, when you study
interior design, there's likeall these different pathways
that you can take, which is,yeah, pretty cool.
And now so you started as adesigner, working in design, and
I remember we had a chat aboutworking in retail design and
both of us saying, well, thatwas interesting, but not for me.
And then you moved into mediaand you're a brand manager for
(02:03):
niche.
So I guess it's like, reallyinteresting.
How did that happen?
How did you evolve frominterior design you know retail
into becoming a brand managerfor niche?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
so, yeah, um, so I did study interior design and I
did a internship for a retailgroup and to do their store
design.
And then that's when I realizedthat maybe this is not for me.
So I did another internship fora media company, which is the
same company that I work for nowNiche Media and then, yeah,
realized that is something thatI'm really passionate about,
(02:33):
that I love being a part of thiscommunity, but I just don't
have to be the person that'sactually designing it.
So yeah, no, I found my niche.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
No pun intended, I found my niche.
No pun intended.
That's really cool, though, too, I feel like the fact that you
were able to do an internshipand I sort of did a similar
thing.
I started with a company aslike a you know work experience
thing and then, you know, got ajob.
It's such a great way to sortof get into a place at that
level.
And so when you so you had theinternship, what role did you
(03:04):
first go into?
Was it straight into it?
Wasn't straight into brandmanager, was it?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, so I started as a event coordinator and obviously
that's a very big part of ourcompany that we do lots of
industry activations andobviously the idea awards and 30
under 30.
And when I first started, 30under 30 was just starting.
So you know, I was very heavilyinvolved with the first initial
setup and which is still one ofthe most incredible thing that
(03:32):
I think for my career, that I amvery proud of.
And yeah, and then just slowlymoved my way up.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, we were just talking about your experience
because you've just come backfrom Bali, right?
So how was it?
And what is 30 under 30?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
You've just come back from Bali, right?
So how was it?
And what is 30 Under 30?
So 30 Under 30 is a recognitionprogram for designers,
architects or innovators age 30and under and for them to have a
platform to hear their voice.
So what they do is they submittheir portfolio with the
projects they've done orinvolved in before, and then
(04:05):
we'll have a panel of judges andmentors that will review them
and then, yeah, so like thefinal 30, and then they're
invited to come to Bali with usfor a creativity retreat.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I just missed out by a few years.
Yeah, I was pretty close to oneyear, for sure.
So who was the?
Who was the mentor?
Who were the people that camethis year?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So this year we had Kirsten Stanisic from Richard
Stanisic.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Oh, I love her.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and Mim Fanning , from Mim Design.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Oh, I love Mim.
What a star.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, and Eva Su from Woods Packard in Perth, and
then Sophia Leopardi fromWilliams Leopardi from Adelaide,
amazing and then, who was thelast person?
Chris Hardy, who unfortunatelycouldn't make it.
But you know, um, we just lovehaving a mix of technologies, um
, designers, and to come along,because, like I said, I've even
(04:53):
my personal, you know,experience.
There's all these pivotalmoments in your career and we
just want to be able to providethat same thing mentorship, um,
for we'll call them the kids,the final 30, to have have, like
you know, different mentors.
They can, you know, align withthemselves, with what an
incredible event to organise.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So that's your baby.
Basically, that's one of yourprojects.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Only your baby, because you've been there from
the beginning, right?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yes, and it's just very rewarding to see grow as
well.
And every time when we comeback from Bali, everyone just
you know, the bus is stillhappening.
Like everyone in the cohort inthe past, they're still, you
know, friends.
If they're interstate, theywill try to catch up dinners
together, like that.
And then for them to also havethose mentors as well and that
connection.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think you know we've seen other years 30 under
30, people really do like sowell.
So I think it is a real littlekind of boost for the start of
their career and so it's abrilliant initiative and, yeah,
you should be really proud ofthat.
That's amazing.
Thank you, sorry.
I was going to say when you'retalking about the energy, it's
sort of a little segue into it'swhen we do Milan Design Week
(06:09):
and you're there and you're withlots of like-minded people
because we're going to talkabout Milan, right.
It's kind of that, yeah, whenyou come back, you've still got
the buzz right.
You're still kind of thinkingabout all the things, and it's
not just being there and seeingthings, it's the people around
you.
I think that make thedifference and how it sort of I
don't know makes you feel moreconnected to the industry too.
But I was going to say soyou're in Milan this year.
(06:31):
Had you been before, what wasyour, I guess?
Why did you decide this was theyear if you haven't been, or
what was your experience with itpreviously?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So this is actually my first time in Milan, for
Design Week, also first time inMilan.
So I had no idea what you knowwhat I was expecting to see.
But I just thought I just saidto myself just keep it an open
mind, go with the flow.
Anything happens happens.
The only reason I chose thisyear because I was thinking
maybe this year might be quieterbecause it's not, it's Yoluchi.
(07:00):
So I thought, you know, as afirst time, I'll just go ahead
and do something that's not ascrazy.
Yeah, but when I got there Iwas like I was wrong.
I wouldn't describe it as quietno.
But my first initial thoughtwas like wow, like an event to
bring half a million peoplearound the world to go to one
(07:23):
city is just absolutelyincredible and my experience has
been really positive.
Obviously with you guys.
It was, you know, definitelybetter.
Um, we make everything better Ithink the most part of it um
that I enjoyed the most was umthe people, like I mean the
people, the people I get to hangout with, the people that's
(07:44):
interstate or overseas, that youwork with before, but you never
get to see them.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So incredible to bring all these people together
and have a good time.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I agree, and it's kind of rare and you feel the
energy that you're with yourpeople.
Like, for instance, you know,when you're at Saloni, or even
if you're at a restaurant,you're there and you're just
looking at the details, you'relooking at the furniture, you're
taking photos of the coolbathrooms, like that's
completely normal during designweek.
We all get it, we're all likedoing the same things and you
(08:18):
just have that feeling of like Idon't know, just like-minded
people.
So, and it is true, like you'recatching up with people that
you might've talked to onInstagram or whatever.
You're bumping into people.
But, to be fair, we were justso busy the whole time, weren't
we?
We were like literallysometimes running through the
streets of Milan to get to thethings.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Absolutely.
It was so fun, I know, but itis.
It is that funny thing thatit's not.
You're often catching up withpeople from Australia in Milan
and that always sort of likebaffles me and blows my mind
that sometimes I'll say I'll seesomeone and go.
When was the last time I sawyou?
Oh, it was here last year andwe both live in the same country
.
But we've caught up Two daystravel away just because you're
(09:02):
all sort of in there and thenyou just sort of run into people
on the street, like it's, thereare a lot of Australians there,
I think, and it's interesting,like I don't know why there's
such a, such an attraction.
I think a lot of Australians goand I think if you spoke to you
know people over there they'dsay, yeah, we see a lot of
Australians here.
What do you think?
It is, alvin?
That's like the attraction ofAustralians to Milan Design Week
(09:24):
.
Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Australia is just such an isolated country, Like
we're so far away fromeverything, and I think if you
grew up in Australia, it's likeyou know, going to Europe is
like a nice holiday thing.
So I feel like they have asignificant impact.
You know you get to go to Milanfor a bit of work, a bit of
lecture.
Why not why?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
not?
Indeed, coffee pastries,negronis espresso.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Pizza, pasta, pizza, I mean what?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
is bad.
There's no bad.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Gelato.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Although I think probably the only bad thing
people would talk about is thebusyness of it, and I think that
there's pros and cons to that.
It is buzzing and so thebusyness adds to the energy.
I think sometimes it can get abit frustrating, particularly
with the amount of like QR codescanning and filling things out
just to kind of get in a line orget in the door.
Did you like find it didn'tbother you that it was that busy
(10:16):
, or do you think it's become abit of an?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
issue, I think.
I mean there's a few things youdefinitely need appointments to
get in, which I was fine doingit, I think, if you are
well-organized, sort of you knowwith all your meetings and
everything.
It was fine.
But the one thing that I forany newcomers probably don't
overbook yourself as well, Ithink there was one night in
Milan.
I actually booked myself sevenevents.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
You did.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And actually I ended up going to five of them which I
was quite proud of myself.
That's pretty good.
And actually I ended up goingto five of them which I was
quite proud of myself.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But I overdone it and then the next morning I was
having to get up and go to doother things.
There was a bit much, butthat's the only negative things
I'll say, and I definitely won'tbe doing the same thing next
year.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And, to be fair, because you are working in media
, you have a press pass so youget to kind of skip a lot of
those cues, but it's for youworking within the media.
Is there something that you arelooking for in particular to
see in Malone?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I was, because it was the first time, so I kind of
just wanted to see everythingand but I was looking for new
inspiration as well, like youknow, for things how we can sort
of like take home to share withour colleagues and potentially
not improving, but, like youknow, to sort of make some
relevance in terms of contentand all the things we're doing
(11:32):
and the way we sort of think.
And obviously, the upcomingyears there's going to be all
these new innovations andtechnology coming.
so I feel, like it's importantfor us to stay informed and and
then how we can sort of continueto grow.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
There's nothing quite likehaving your feet on the ground,
being there, experiencing it andtaking in some of those.
Sometimes it's talking about aninnovative material and it's
not like a real Instagramable,photographable thing.
It's the story behind it thatyou really learn when you're
there too.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, it is one thing , I guess, to watch it, you know
, from an Instagram perspective.
But I've learned over the yearstoo that you can kind of get a
bit sucked in by that when I'mover there.
I, you know, as you both know, Ihave a ridiculous itinerary and
I revise it pretty much everynight because I sort of go okay,
(12:26):
no, I get feedback from otherpeople that's probably not worth
going to, or actually we missedthis, so let's add that.
But if you just look at socials, sometimes there'll be just
this one great photo of an, ofan installation, and then you'll
be like we have to see that, wehave to see that, and you go
out of your way and you go thereand it's literally that one
great photo and it's like everylike it's just that one spot,
(12:48):
and so you kind of go, okay,that it, I got the photo that
everyone else has got.
So you do have to kind of, Iguess, be a little bit careful
about the FOMO sometimes and notlike let that override what
your agenda should sort of be.
And, like you know, yeah, Ifind that can be hard, the
amount of like socials you see,definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Alvin, I'm curious to know, did you get to go to like
the main exhibition at row I?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
actually did um, so, um, like, I had my media pass
and then, so I was invited to go.
um, it was my first time and allthe people that has been in the
past from the company, theywere like, oh, make sure you
just select, you know, only acouple of holes, that what you
wanted to do and then goingstraight away have a target,
don't wander around because youend up getting really exhausted,
(13:38):
which I did, and the way I sortof look at things was that
obviously we my agenda waspretty much to visit the brands
we've worked in now and sort ofin the past, to sort of visit
them and see how different fromtheir marketing strategy is in
Milan with their stand and youknow what they do in Australia,
(14:01):
and it was actually prettyamazing to see how some of the
installations were justincredible in there.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, there's a lot of investment in those stands
and the space at Rowan.
It has shrunk a lot over theyears but it's still absolutely
huge.
And you're so right, you can'tjust sort of wander in there and
wander around or you'll spendfive days wandering around and
you'll miss all the good stuffand you'll see a lot of maybe
not so good stuff with a fewgood moments.
So you have to have a plan,there has to be a strategy for
(14:30):
the fair.
And how long were you out atthe fair for?
Did you spend a day out thereor just half a day?
Just half?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
a day, really.
Yeah.
So you really nailed it.
Yeah, and I think you guys mustfeel the same way as well.
When you sort of got to thereand when you're doing the lap a
couple of times, you're like youknow what.
This is enough, it's just gotto go, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Well, we were just talking about it the other day,
weren't we Bree?
Because it's one of thosethings that I mean I wish I had
more time.
Of course, everyone says thatwe were there for half the day
and I thought, oh, I wish I wasthere for a bit longer.
Because it's a balance ofplanning what you want to see.
You know, we hit up Cartel andwe hit up Mini Forms and BD
Barcelona and heaps of brandsthat we already know.
But you also want to stumbleacross brands that we already
(15:09):
know, but you also want tostumble across brands that you
don't know.
But you can't just do as yousaid.
You'd be there for five days ifyou saw the whole thing.
So it's just trying to get thatbalance, because I could just
look at furniture and lightingall day long, like I think we
are probably the three of us arepretty hardcore, like it is
quite fatiguing, but you just,you know, again, it's talking
(15:30):
about that buzz.
You just have to keep pushingon.
And I'm curious, alvin, did youhave any like furniture pieces
or brands or anything that kindof popped out to you?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So I really enjoyed going to see Null.
Like Null has always been oneof my favorite sort of furniture
, but this time they're sort oflike I feel like I know their
brand better.
It's kind of like they've got anod up there.
It was more about how they it'sabout the storytelling of their
brand, and I really enjoy it.
And I was really amazed howthey sort of combined the whole
(16:02):
biofilipped sort of design intothat stand as well.
That was quite incredible fromwhat I saw, yeah, but I
definitely, because I in thepast I've always just been
loving, you know, kitchen designand furniture, but I never
realized that I actually reallyreally enjoy lighting as well,
and I think I discovered thatwhen we got there and it was
just like everything was soincredible.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You know, I think lighting has now become my top
category.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, it is interesting with the.
I found this year's lightingyear was better than the
previous one.
Like Uraluchi last time, it waskind of a bit of a letdown for
me.
I remember walking throughbecause I usually get a bit
excited about new lighting.
I kind of have a bit of a weirdlamp obsession.
I like lamps and I love lamps,that's not a weird obsession.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's normal.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I could have so many, and so I love the lighting year
, but last time I was justreally like I walked through and
it was very it wasn't reallyanything super like.
You know there were a couple ofmoments but it just wasn't like
what it was the previous andyou know when you do that
comparison but I felt like thisyear there was just a lot more
sort of innovation and nice kindof directional movement in
(17:14):
lighting that we kind of hadn'tseen before, like a little bit
of a bigger shift which was justso much nicer to see.
Was there a particular brandthat you loved?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
well with lighting brands um.
I mean we certainly do see somemovements that um lots of
designers in australia.
Now we're all cross promotingum local design, local
manufacturing.
I think that has gotten to mefrom a lighting perspective,
because I should really enjoygoing to see ross gardam's new
collection and I thought thatwas very innovative and um, it
(17:44):
was just really really beautiful, very clever.
How you know, his thoughtprocess is I'm designing those
um lights, um yeah I agree.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Seeing ross, it was like a moment of pride being an
australian and seeing, like youknow, such an incredible
exhibition in milan and thequality, like the what you were
saying, his ideas behind thepieces that I can't, I can't
explain.
It's like how two sort of puffydiscs merge together.
He knows the name of the shapePuffy discs.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
He's going to love that description.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I know, like at 90 degrees they turn on each other.
I can't just, you know, we'llput something in the show notes
about it.
It was incredible that geometryand then the fabrication to be
pulling something like that offin such a refined way.
And you know, his glass lamp,that, oh, it's just absolutely
(18:39):
beautiful, isn't it?
So yeah, I think Australians ina way I mean Articolo were
there as well at Solano, andthat light, that vanity light
that pivots.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We were just gasping Like, oh, that's so clever.
We were very excited on thearticular stand weren't we?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
yeah, it was really clever.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I love seeing that and I love seeing like
Australian brands there and itmight seem weird to be all the
way over there and then go and Ialways make an effort to try
and see the brands because it'ssuch a big deal and such a huge
effort to go there in the firstplace to exhibit and there's
it's usually new thingsobviously too.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So you get to sort of just support that and be
excited for them as well, like Iget really excited for people
it is and because, like you know, like we sort of talked about,
like everyone goes to Milan tosort of look for inspiration.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So seeing like Aussies there, you know,
presenting their work, it'sactually quite incredible and I
think it comes back to what youwere saying, alvin, that we are
so far away that we don't haveaccess to, you know, visiting
Europe so quickly.
Or I mean we do with, obviously, social media and the internet,
but we design in our own wayhere and I think a bit off topic
(19:55):
, but Melbourne Design Week ishappening as we're recording
this, and the 100 Lightsexhibition.
That was incredible to see allof that.
Australian talent and thecaliber is pretty high, I think.
So, yeah, and it is very.
You feel very proud to be ableto see, you know, the Articulos,
rosgarden and Rukumba like ahandful of amazing designers on
(20:19):
that world stage and theirpieces are so gorgeous, so very
cool.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That is.
I love that you're now a biglighting fan, alvin to be
hunting down the new things.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Because where did we go?
We went to Martini, thatapartment, and I was just amazed
with you know how lighting sortof just changed the entire look
and feels and everything.
It doesn't matter what finishesyou've got in there, what
greenery you've got in there,With the right lighting, it's
like you don't have to do much.
It was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well that, maltini, I feel like we say that all the
time, don't we?
Lauren Lighting is to do much.
It was just so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Well, that's like we say that all the time, don't we?
Lauren, lighting is everything.
Yeah, that maltini showroom wasincredible.
So that had just been umrefurbished, was it?
Oh, who was the designer again?
Was it axel?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
was probably, I'm not sure.
Uh, I thought it might havebeen there in-house, is it
vincent?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
vincent van dyson.
Maybe we'll have to check that,vincent van dyson, but some
vincenti or something.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Oh, it was just incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But um, and the pieces there, um, for me that
was a highlight the christophedelcourt pieces, the first
collaboration with malteni.
The sofas were just incredible.
They were beautiful, weren'tthey?
And that was just such a greatexperience.
We went up was it seven floorsor something?
Right to the rooftop.
We went through kitchens,furniture and we were just, and
(21:40):
then we'd bumped into Jackiethere.
So Jackie, she, you know, hastheir showroom in Melbourne.
So it was just again you'rebumping into people there.
I'm in big shock to bump intoJackie at Molteni because she
has the Molteni.
It's not like the biggestcoincidence in the world, but it
was so fun to experience thattogether, wasn't it, alvin?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It was just, yeah, very incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, did you have any like takeaways?
You know, broadly speaking,about Malone.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So I think you sort of like my biggest takeaway is
definitely the, not theconnections, but sort of like
the networking experience.
Like you know, at the end ofthe day, we it doesn't matter
what role you play in thisindustry we are all one
community and I think being inMilan or any sort of world fair
is that, that opportunity tobring everyone together, and I
think to me that's gold becauseobviously, products wise every
(22:31):
year there's going to be a newproduct, but I think um
connections and networking andthose lifelong friends are, um
something that's way morevaluable oh, that's really
lovely.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I'm spot on too right , we're lifelong friends now, so
you can't get rid of me that'sright, you're, you're in the
inner circle and it's, you know,it is true, there's that sense
of community and there's a lotof people.
And I think we sort of touchedon the busyness before and you
know you having a press passmaybe not the most best person
(23:05):
to speak to about waiting in athree hour long queue, that was
probably not your experience,but you know it is an issue.
People are, I don't know it's,it's just the way it is.
There's fashion brandsexhibiting.
I have to say I don't think wereally.
I didn't attend any of thefashion brands, did you, alvin?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Me neither.
No, I think definitely, likeyou know, there is definitely
some solutions that maybe we can.
They can put out a designcompetition, how to sort of move
up, do a better way on notwayfinding, but just like how to
sort of like solve that problem.
Because I think the queue,definitely it changes your
experience quite significantly,like because one of the worst
(23:43):
ones it was um three hours, umfor one of the apartment woods
and I just thought you know ifyou have to wait for three hours
for to see an apartment by thetime you're ready, was that?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
al decor was our decor I think it might have been
.
Oh, I heard it was three hoursagain for the um apartmento with
artemist oh, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, yeah, which has grown here.
So sort of what happens is so Iwould say, not, not 2024, but
2023.
That was sort of.
It might have been the firstyear that they did it with
collaborations with designers,and then people sort of catch on
.
So then the next year it'sbusier and this was the peak
year, I think, where everyonehad caught on to it and it was
(24:25):
like a you know, have to see it.
And then that sort of happensand it's a massive line and then
it'll kind of like roll on tothe next thing.
So I feel like it's justevolutions of what's the hottest
thing, and it's not always atthe show the first time that it
gets as busy.
It takes like one or two yearsfor it to end up kind of in that
situation, because I've beenthere the last couple of years
(24:46):
and it's never been, and I oftendon't also wait in the lines
because I'll make appointmentsand things, but I've seen the
lines and it wasn't like that.
That was like huge.
But I think it's justrecognition over a period of
time where it gets to that point.
It's the same thing with theMorde, where they used to have
they didn't do it in theirapartment upstairs this year.
But that started, as you know.
(25:07):
You'd wait in a line a littlebit, but it wasn't.
It would keep moving and itwasn't crazy and it didn't feel
like it was an issue to thepoint where people were getting
there, you know, early in themorning and down the street kind
of thing, and that was again.
That was just a buildup ofyears of people going.
This is incredible, you have tosee it.
So it sort of becomes a word ofmouth situation and I think
(25:27):
that was what happened withArtemis.
But three hours is a long wait.
It's not just that.
I think it's that you miss outon other things if you have to
dedicate that much time tostanding in a line for that one
thing and there's just so muchto see that I would find that
quite stressful.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Absolutely, and I think I sort of see both ways as
well, because I think it wasgetting to the point where the
staff was like all right, you'vebeen waiting for a long time
just going.
But it gets to the point whereinside was really crowded as
well, and I think in my lineeverything was about experience
and queuing is definitely notthe most glamorous one.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, and also, if you've come all the way from
Australia, think about how muchmoney you've spent to be
standing in that line.
Accommodation and it's the besthalf of a day three hours the
time.
I don't know what the answer is,but it could be.
You know, as you say, makingappointments, brie.
You know, in the past you'vebeen able to make appointments.
Maybe there is time slots likethe NGV.
(26:23):
The exhibitions there are huge.
Everybody makes an appointment.
I don't think having anexclusive invites only list is
the way to go.
That's just not my vibe.
I like it that it's inclusive.
If you want to wait for threehours, everybody deserves to go
and have a look at it.
In my opinion, and with Demore,I know there was perhaps a bit
(26:43):
of criticism about thefour-minute window that you got
to go and view Demore, but ifthat's what it takes to get as
many people through as possible,then that's what it takes and
I'm all for it.
Yeah, I actually thought theydid it quite.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I thought they did it really well compared to other
years where they do just have along line of people.
This year you did have to booka slot and it was easy because
you didn't have to stand in linefor a ridiculous amount of time
.
They kept people moving through.
It was an experience, so it hada start and an end.
It wasn't this just go in andyou've got four minutes, hurry,
(27:15):
hurry.
You walked in and it was like alittle moment where it had
audio and visual and then thespace, and then they had like
maybe a short moment at the endto be able to take some photos,
because you couldn't take photoswhile the experience was on.
I thought it was actually quitebrilliant because if you didn't
get to make an appointment youmight miss out, but then I'd
(27:36):
rather do that than stand in aline for three hours.
The problem with you know it'sfunny talking to a couple of
people this week and everyonealways goes how is Milan?
Like?
They always want to know.
And I was talking to someone itwas actually Jordan, jordan
Fleming, and she was saying youknow what do they do about?
You know the amount?
Is there too many installations?
I said there probably is.
(27:57):
But it's not like here forDesign Week, where you have to
submit something and then itkind of gets approved and it's
part of an official thing.
Anyone can kind of be involved.
So it would be amazing if theydid kind of decide to try, and I
don't know, make it a littlebit more curated.
But knowing Italy, it's abeautiful mess and I don't think
(28:18):
that will happen.
And they have had apps before,for instance, that you're
supposed to like when I firstused to go get the app and it
never worked.
It never ever worked properly.
You'd be like trying to use itand you'd just give up or it was
just sort of that sort of stuff.
They're just not super great atOther stuff.
Amazing, we will forgive themfor that um, but yeah.
So I don't know, I think it'sjust, it's just an evolution of
(28:42):
any kind of show or design orany kind of, I guess, event not
just in design has an evolutionof sorts and and it peters off
and then it might come backagain and we're just I think
we're just in peak milan designweek at the moment and in terms
of popularity and it'll probablydrop off yeah, and I think
probably Milan itself is notbuilt for that many people
(29:03):
either.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like you know, speaking to some of the taxi
drivers I was like, oh, is thereno?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
no.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Texas, because it was actually quite hard.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah and oh, it's just this one week, normally
we're fine yeah, well, it'sovertaken fashion week, so
fashion week is also in Milan,and I think now design week has
overtaken Fashion Week, soFashion Week is also in Milan
and I think now Design Week hasovertaken it for popularity of
the amount of people that arethere.
I think because it has beenvery inclusive.
Exactly like Lauren says, it'sopen to kind of everyone.
It's a public event.
(29:31):
You don't have to be a designerto attend, and when you do
Fashion Week it is a little bitmore exclusive.
So it's more about media andfashion industry.
I think Design Week has becomepeople will go just because they
kind of just think it's cooland that will be great and it's
Instagrammable, right.
So if you can get there, you gothere and you, you know, you're
an influencer, just kind ofadjacent to that world, right,
(29:54):
you want to kind of like jump inand do it.
So I think that's why it's kindof picked up and yeah, right,
you want to kind of like jump inand do it.
So I think that's why it's kindof picked up and yeah, but I
think you just I love it.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I'll go again.
Oh, totally, and you're right,you know it is inclusive.
But at the same time, salone,going to the actual fair itself,
you need to have a trade.
Oh, yes, you need to be withinthe trade.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
They have a public day on the Saturday.
On the Saturday oh right, Cool.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Isn't it funny that what it started as, which was
the Salone, is now almost like abit of an afterthought compared
to what actually goes on intothe city itself.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
The satellite events have definitely taken over and
Salone has sort of shrunk alittle bit.
At the fair it's definitely.
Yeah, it's evolved, it'sshifted, and I think they'll
struggle to get some of thebrands that have left there and
have showrooms in the city.
I think they'll struggle to getthem back unless there's some
massive change.
So you know and we're seeingthat everywhere, really not just
(30:45):
in Milan, you go, look atAustralia the exhibition kind of
caliber has really dropped andI don't know what they're going
to do to kind of pick that backup again.
I love the shows we have inAustralia, but they haven't been
awesome and I feel like there'sa lot of room for improvement
to kind of get them to be peopleto stay interested in attending
.
So yeah, that's my take.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
So, alvin, would there be anything that you would
do differently next time inMilan, and do you plan to go
next year, or are we going totake a break?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I'm definitely going next year.
I just want just newinnovations because you know, my
favorite category kitchen andbathroom is just going to be
incredible, and with that I justfeel like there is all, not
just new products, but, like youknow, kitchen to me is the
heart of the house and I thinkit's the most important thing
when it comes to design, and sowould love to see what sort of
(31:36):
clever things that brands or,you know, participants sort of
come up with in terms of theinstallations and everything.
Next year I would definitely bemore realistic in terms of my
appointments.
No seven parties tonightanymore, just five then, because
it becomes a mass productionsort of.
You know you just go there,there you don't actually enjoy
(31:59):
being there because you'realways on the clock, whereas
like if you have one event ortwo, then you just go and you
actually enjoy yourself and youknow, enjoy the conversation,
don't feel like you're always onthe clock.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, that's a hard one, because you do.
You definitely do try tosqueeze in as much as you can
while you're there, but I tendto end up kind of going I just
can't.
I can't do this, this and this,even though I intended to.
Right, you can only do so much,otherwise it does become not
very enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, wasn't there a day that you came back to the
apartment to have a na-na-na?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
There was a day I had my seven events the previous
day.
Yeah, yeah, I had my sevenevents the previous day.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And I just think you know talking about well-being.
In the current climate, it'slike you just need to be true to
yourself, like, don't worry,because you end up being, you
know, tired or, you know,sometimes sick as well, and just
you know, I had the mindset atthe end, just kind of like you
know, you can only see what youcan see.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You do have to do that Absolutely, and Lauren and
I have kind of talked about that, like what can you do?
You can't see everything, soyou've just got to accept that
(33:21):
you'll miss some things.
I did get a bit of a bone aboutseeing Demore, because I've
seen it every year and I reallywanted to see it and I did.
I got there at the very end butum but other, there's things
that I know I just have to letgo.
I didn't get to see it, but Isaw amazing things and I filled
every day.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So what you can't do more than that right and I'm
very glad we actually went um,went to um Alcova.
That was actually quiteincredible.
It was amazing actually.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, that was really good.
A lot we're talking about howthat was kind of nice.
So Alcova is sort of justoutside of Milan, in another
little town which I'm forgettingthe name of starts with L, so
it sort of feels like you'rehaving a little break from the
city when you go out there andit's still busy but it's quite
spread out.
You get on the train, get off,you walk through kind of little
the little village and it wasspread out over four or three
(33:59):
different locations.
I think it was four this year,wasn't it?
And yeah, so that was just.
It was kind of a little breakfrom being like in the.
It was just a completelydifferent sort of setting, I
suppose.
So I hope they do that again andhave it outside of the city
that's.
They only did that the firsttime last year.
It's normally somewhere kind ofa bit more industrial and in,
but apparently some of the sitesare getting really hard to get
(34:21):
because they're beingredeveloped, because they need
more houses and homes andapartments generally.
So a lot of those venues orlocations that were sort of
abandoned, warehouse or vacantplaces aren't that anymore
because they've been sold andbeing developed.
So apparently those spaces aregetting hard to come by how dare
they how?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
dare they Don't, they know, we just need that for
that one week a year?
Yeah, like that authenticabandoned yeah.
But I agree, brie, I think atthat stage it was exactly.
What I needed was just to seesome like grass trees like.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
not that Milan is not a beautiful city.
It was like a little brook, butjust spaciousness.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
It was trees, like not that Milan.
There was like a little brook,just spaciousness that's right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And then when we went to that amazing um palazzo, I
can't remember yeah yeah, andthen we sat underneath the trees
and we got a drink.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Like remember how we stayed there for like just we
did.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
We didn't really want to leave, yeah yeah, it was
just what we needed.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
so, yeah, it so magic , and I'm so happy we got to
share that experience together.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, how good was the weather.
It was good.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Blessed.
We were quite blessed.
Yes, it was good, it was a good, it was a great year, it was
great people.
Yeah, I'm glad you were around,alvin.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, it was so good.
It was such a good experience,you know, with you guys together
.
It was just yeah magical.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Thank you Unforgettable Next year, yeah
we'll do it again, yeah.
I think that you know, alvin,when I think about what it was
like to spend time with you, Ijust remember just like giggling
, like you're so funny andyou're so much fun to be around
and it was just such a greatvibe.
So thank you for bringing thegood vibes always.
Um, and yeah, when you backdown in melbourne, let's, let's
(36:03):
reminisce again yes, we'll havea reunion dinner or something
actually oh yes, that's a greatidea.
Should we have italian?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
have to.
Oh, thanks so much for joiningus, alvin.
Thank you From the other sideof the world.
Well, not quite the other sideof the world, not quite in
Australia yet either.
But yeah, thanks for making theeffort.
It was such a great kind ofrecap and chat.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Thanks, Alvin.
Hi everyone.
We are with Alvin Wu today andboth of us know Alvin pretty
well, particularly because weactually were traveling with him
in April and got to spend sometime with him.
But before that I had met youbefore last year's Saturday,
indesign, I can't remember where, just probably.
(00:22):
Oh, it was Michael's house, afriend, friend of ours.
His birthday, he had a houseparty and that's when I first
met Alvin and I think you werewearing like the sequin outfit,
was it.
Anyway, I was very taken by himin this fashion sense and we
didn't spend a lot of timetogether then and then we really
(00:42):
got to know each other a bitbetter.
Last year at Saturday in Designin Sydney I ran into you at
Colt and I was with my dearfriend Ming and she was driving
and we were going to the nextthing and I just said, do you
want to come?
And you went, oh, would that beokay?
And then you spent the day withus and it was absolutely lovely
.
So, yeah, and more times havebeen had since.
But that's how I know, alvin,what about you, lauren?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, Alvin, it's so good to talk because we were in
Milan the last time we werehanging out, right?
Oh, I'm going to be droppingthat into conversations until
2026.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Just dropping that in .
We were just in Milan hangingout.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I think I sort of got to know you a little bit, got
to know your face, at least fromInstagram and then we caught up
for drinks one time and I waslike, oh, this is Alvin.
I'm like, oh my God, he has thebest hair I've ever seen.
And then it was just so fun tohang out together.
I think that you know tointroduce you properly a little
(01:41):
bit, so it's really interestingthat you know, when you study
interior design, there's likeall these different pathways
that you can take, which is,yeah, pretty cool.
And now so you started as adesigner, working in design, and
I remember we had a chat aboutworking in retail design and
both of us saying, well, thatwas interesting, but not for me.
And then you moved into mediaand you're a brand manager for
(02:03):
niche.
So I guess it's like, reallyinteresting.
How did that happen?
How did you evolve frominterior design you know retail
into becoming a brand managerfor niche?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
so, yeah, um, so I did study interior design and I
did a internship for a retailgroup and to do their store
design.
And then that's when I realizedthat maybe this is not for me.
So I did another internship fora media company, which is the
same company that I work for nowNiche Media and then, yeah,
realized that is something thatI'm really passionate about,
(02:33):
that I love being a part of thiscommunity, but I just don't
have to be the person that'sactually designing it.
So yeah, no, I found my niche.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
No pun intended, I found my niche.
No pun intended.
That's really cool, though, too, I feel like the fact that you
were able to do an internshipand I sort of did a similar
thing.
I started with a company aslike a you know work experience
thing and then, you know, got ajob.
It's such a great way to sortof get into a place at that
level.
And so when you so you had theinternship, what role did you
(03:04):
first go into?
Was it straight into it?
Wasn't straight into brandmanager, was it?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, so I started as a event coordinator and obviously
that's a very big part of ourcompany that we do lots of
industry activations andobviously the idea awards and 30
under 30.
And when I first started, 30under 30 was just starting.
So you know, I was very heavilyinvolved with the first initial
setup and which is still one ofthe most incredible thing that
(03:32):
I think for my career, that I amvery proud of.
And yeah, and then just slowlymoved my way up.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, we were just talking about your experience
because you've just come backfrom Bali, right?
So how was it?
And what is 30 under 30?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
You've just come back from Bali, right?
So how was it?
And what is 30 Under 30?
So 30 Under 30 is a recognitionprogram for designers,
architects or innovators age 30and under and for them to have a
platform to hear their voice.
So what they do is they submittheir portfolio with the
projects they've done orinvolved in before, and then
(04:05):
we'll have a panel of judges andmentors that will review them
and then, yeah, so like thefinal 30, and then they're
invited to come to Bali with usfor a creativity retreat.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I just missed out by a few years.
Yeah, I was pretty close to oneyear, for sure.
So who was the?
Who was the mentor?
Who were the people that camethis year?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
So this year we had Kirsten Stanisic from Richard
Stanisic.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Oh, I love her.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and Mim Fanning , from Mim Design.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Oh, I love Mim.
What a star.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, and Eva Su from Woods Packard in Perth, and
then Sophia Leopardi fromWilliams Leopardi from Adelaide,
amazing and then, who was thelast person?
Chris Hardy, who unfortunatelycouldn't make it.
But you know, um, we just lovehaving a mix of technologies, um
, designers, and to come along,because, like I said, I've even
(04:53):
my personal, you know,experience.
There's all these pivotalmoments in your career and we
just want to be able to providethat same thing mentorship, um,
for we'll call them the kids,the final 30, to have have, like
you know, different mentors.
They can, you know, align withthemselves, with what an
incredible event to organise.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So that's your baby.
Basically, that's one of yourprojects.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Only your baby, because you've been there from
the beginning, right?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yes, and it's just very rewarding to see grow as
well.
And every time when we comeback from Bali, everyone just
you know, the bus is stillhappening.
Like everyone in the cohort inthe past, they're still, you
know, friends.
If they're interstate, theywill try to catch up dinners
together, like that.
And then for them to also havethose mentors as well and that
connection.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think you know we've seen other years 30 under
30, people really do like sowell.
So I think it is a real littlekind of boost for the start of
their career and so it's abrilliant initiative and, yeah,
you should be really proud ofthat.
That's amazing.
Thank you, sorry.
I was going to say when you'retalking about the energy, it's
sort of a little segue into it'swhen we do Milan Design Week
(06:09):
and you're there and you're withlots of like-minded people
because we're going to talkabout Milan, right.
It's kind of that, yeah, whenyou come back, you've still got
the buzz right.
You're still kind of thinkingabout all the things, and it's
not just being there and seeingthings, it's the people around
you.
I think that make thedifference and how it sort of I
don't know makes you feel moreconnected to the industry too.
But I was going to say soyou're in Milan this year.
(06:31):
Had you been before, what wasyour, I guess?
Why did you decide this was theyear if you haven't been, or
what was your experience with itpreviously?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So this is actually my first time in Milan, for
Design Week, also first time inMilan.
So I had no idea what you knowwhat I was expecting to see.
But I just thought I just saidto myself just keep it an open
mind, go with the flow.
Anything happens happens.
The only reason I chose thisyear because I was thinking
maybe this year might be quieterbecause it's not, it's Yoluchi.
(07:00):
So I thought, you know, as afirst time, I'll just go ahead
and do something that's not ascrazy.
Yeah, but when I got there Iwas like I was wrong.
I wouldn't describe it as quietno.
But my first initial thoughtwas like wow, like an event to
bring half a million peoplearound the world to go to one
(07:23):
city is just absolutelyincredible and my experience has
been really positive.
Obviously with you guys.
It was, you know, definitelybetter.
Um, we make everything better Ithink the most part of it um
that I enjoyed the most was umthe people, like I mean the
people, the people I get to hangout with, the people that's
(07:44):
interstate or overseas, that youwork with before, but you never
get to see them.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So incredible to bring all these people together
and have a good time.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I agree, and it's kind of rare and you feel the
energy that you're with yourpeople.
Like, for instance, you know,when you're at Saloni, or even
if you're at a restaurant,you're there and you're just
looking at the details, you'relooking at the furniture, you're
taking photos of the coolbathrooms, like that's
completely normal during designweek.
We all get it, we're all likedoing the same things and you
(08:18):
just have that feeling of like Idon't know, just like-minded
people.
So, and it is true, like you'recatching up with people that
you might've talked to onInstagram or whatever.
You're bumping into people.
But, to be fair, we were justso busy the whole time, weren't
we?
We were like literallysometimes running through the
streets of Milan to get to thethings.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Absolutely.
It was so fun, I know, but itis.
It is that funny thing thatit's not.
You're often catching up withpeople from Australia in Milan
and that always sort of likebaffles me and blows my mind
that sometimes I'll say I'll seesomeone and go.
When was the last time I sawyou?
Oh, it was here last year andwe both live in the same country
.
But we've caught up Two daystravel away just because you're
(09:02):
all sort of in there and thenyou just sort of run into people
on the street, like it's, thereare a lot of Australians there,
I think, and it's interesting,like I don't know why there's
such a, such an attraction.
I think a lot of Australians goand I think if you spoke to you
know people over there they'dsay, yeah, we see a lot of
Australians here.
What do you think?
It is, alvin?
That's like the attraction ofAustralians to Milan Design Week
(09:24):
.
Well, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Australia is just such an isolated country, Like
we're so far away fromeverything, and I think if you
grew up in Australia, it's likeyou know, going to Europe is
like a nice holiday thing.
So I feel like they have asignificant impact.
You know you get to go to Milanfor a bit of work, a bit of
lecture.
Why not why?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
not?
Indeed, coffee pastries,negronis espresso.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Pizza, pasta, pizza, I mean what?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
is bad.
There's no bad.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Gelato.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Although I think probably the only bad thing
people would talk about is thebusyness of it, and I think that
there's pros and cons to that.
It is buzzing and so thebusyness adds to the energy.
I think sometimes it can get abit frustrating, particularly
with the amount of like QR codescanning and filling things out
just to kind of get in a line orget in the door.
Did you like find it didn'tbother you that it was that busy
(10:16):
, or do you think it's become abit of an?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
issue, I think.
I mean there's a few things youdefinitely need appointments to
get in, which I was fine doingit, I think, if you are
well-organized, sort of you knowwith all your meetings and
everything.
It was fine.
But the one thing that I forany newcomers probably don't
overbook yourself as well, Ithink there was one night in
Milan.
I actually booked myself sevenevents.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
You did.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And actually I ended up going to five of them which I
was quite proud of myself.
That's pretty good.
And actually I ended up goingto five of them which I was
quite proud of myself.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But I overdone it and then the next morning I was
having to get up and go to doother things.
There was a bit much, butthat's the only negative things
I'll say, and I definitely won'tbe doing the same thing next
year.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And, to be fair, because you are working in media
, you have a press pass so youget to kind of skip a lot of
those cues, but it's for youworking within the media.
Is there something that you arelooking for in particular to
see in Malone?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
I was, because it was the first time, so I kind of
just wanted to see everythingand but I was looking for new
inspiration as well, like youknow, for things how we can sort
of like take home to share withour colleagues and potentially
not improving, but, like youknow, to sort of make some
relevance in terms of contentand all the things we're doing
(11:32):
and the way we sort of think.
And obviously, the upcomingyears there's going to be all
these new innovations andtechnology coming.
so I feel, like it's importantfor us to stay informed and and
then how we can sort of continueto grow.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
There's nothing quite likehaving your feet on the ground,
being there, experiencing it andtaking in some of those.
Sometimes it's talking about aninnovative material and it's
not like a real Instagramable,photographable thing.
It's the story behind it thatyou really learn when you're
there too.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, it is one thing , I guess, to watch it, you know
, from an Instagram perspective.
But I've learned over the yearstoo that you can kind of get a
bit sucked in by that when I'mover there.
I, you know, as you both know, Ihave a ridiculous itinerary and
I revise it pretty much everynight because I sort of go okay,
(12:26):
no, I get feedback from otherpeople that's probably not worth
going to, or actually we missedthis, so let's add that.
But if you just look at socials, sometimes there'll be just
this one great photo of an, ofan installation, and then you'll
be like we have to see that, wehave to see that, and you go
out of your way and you go thereand it's literally that one
great photo and it's like everylike it's just that one spot,
(12:48):
and so you kind of go, okay,that it, I got the photo that
everyone else has got.
So you do have to kind of, Iguess, be a little bit careful
about the FOMO sometimes and notlike let that override what
your agenda should sort of be.
And, like you know, yeah, Ifind that can be hard, the
amount of like socials you see,definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Alvin, I'm curious to know, did you get to go to like
the main exhibition at row I?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
actually did um, so, um, like, I had my media pass
and then, so I was invited to go.
um, it was my first time and allthe people that has been in the
past from the company, theywere like, oh, make sure you
just select, you know, only acouple of holes, that what you
wanted to do and then goingstraight away have a target,
don't wander around because youend up getting really exhausted,
(13:38):
which I did, and the way I sortof look at things was that
obviously we my agenda waspretty much to visit the brands
we've worked in now and sort ofin the past, to sort of visit
them and see how different fromtheir marketing strategy is in
Milan with their stand and youknow what they do in Australia,
(14:01):
and it was actually prettyamazing to see how some of the
installations were justincredible in there.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, there's a lot of investment in those stands
and the space at Rowan.
It has shrunk a lot over theyears but it's still absolutely
huge.
And you're so right, you can'tjust sort of wander in there and
wander around or you'll spendfive days wandering around and
you'll miss all the good stuffand you'll see a lot of maybe
not so good stuff with a fewgood moments.
So you have to have a plan,there has to be a strategy for
(14:30):
the fair.
And how long were you out atthe fair for?
Did you spend a day out thereor just half a day?
Just half?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
a day, really.
Yeah.
So you really nailed it.
Yeah, and I think you guys mustfeel the same way as well.
When you sort of got to thereand when you're doing the lap a
couple of times, you're like youknow what.
This is enough, it's just gotto go, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Well, we were just talking about it the other day,
weren't we Bree?
Because it's one of thosethings that I mean I wish I had
more time.
Of course, everyone says thatwe were there for half the day
and I thought, oh, I wish I wasthere for a bit longer.
Because it's a balance ofplanning what you want to see.
You know, we hit up Cartel andwe hit up Mini Forms and BD
Barcelona and heaps of brandsthat we already know.
But you also want to stumbleacross brands that we already
(15:09):
know, but you also want tostumble across brands that you
don't know.
But you can't just do as yousaid.
You'd be there for five days ifyou saw the whole thing.
So it's just trying to get thatbalance, because I could just
look at furniture and lightingall day long, like I think we
are probably the three of us arepretty hardcore, like it is
quite fatiguing, but you just,you know, again, it's talking
(15:30):
about that buzz.
You just have to keep pushingon.
And I'm curious, alvin, did youhave any like furniture pieces
or brands or anything that kindof popped out to you?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
So I really enjoyed going to see Null.
Like Null has always been oneof my favorite sort of furniture
, but this time they're sort oflike I feel like I know their
brand better.
It's kind of like they've got anod up there.
It was more about how they it'sabout the storytelling of their
brand, and I really enjoy it.
And I was really amazed howthey sort of combined the whole
(16:02):
biofilipped sort of design intothat stand as well.
That was quite incredible fromwhat I saw, yeah, but I
definitely, because I in thepast I've always just been
loving, you know, kitchen designand furniture, but I never
realized that I actually reallyreally enjoy lighting as well,
and I think I discovered thatwhen we got there and it was
just like everything was soincredible.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You know, I think lighting has now become my top
category.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, it is interesting with the.
I found this year's lightingyear was better than the
previous one.
Like Uraluchi last time, it waskind of a bit of a letdown for
me.
I remember walking throughbecause I usually get a bit
excited about new lighting.
I kind of have a bit of a weirdlamp obsession.
I like lamps and I love lamps,that's not a weird obsession.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's normal.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I could have so many, and so I love the lighting year
, but last time I was justreally like I walked through and
it was very it wasn't reallyanything super like.
You know there were a couple ofmoments but it just wasn't like
what it was the previous andyou know when you do that
comparison but I felt like thisyear there was just a lot more
sort of innovation and nice kindof directional movement in
(17:14):
lighting that we kind of hadn'tseen before, like a little bit
of a bigger shift which was justso much nicer to see.
Was there a particular brandthat you loved?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
well with lighting brands um.
I mean we certainly do see somemovements that um lots of
designers in australia.
Now we're all cross promotingum local design, local
manufacturing.
I think that has gotten to mefrom a lighting perspective,
because I should really enjoygoing to see ross gardam's new
collection and I thought thatwas very innovative and um, it
(17:44):
was just really really beautiful, very clever.
How you know, his thoughtprocess is I'm designing those
um lights, um yeah I agree.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Seeing ross, it was like a moment of pride being an
australian and seeing, like youknow, such an incredible
exhibition in milan and thequality, like the what you were
saying, his ideas behind thepieces that I can't, I can't
explain.
It's like how two sort of puffydiscs merge together.
He knows the name of the shapePuffy discs.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
He's going to love that description.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I know, like at 90 degrees they turn on each other.
I can't just, you know, we'llput something in the show notes
about it.
It was incredible that geometryand then the fabrication to be
pulling something like that offin such a refined way.
And you know, his glass lamp,that, oh, it's just absolutely
(18:39):
beautiful, isn't it?
So yeah, I think Australians ina way I mean Articolo were
there as well at Solano, andthat light, that vanity light
that pivots.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
We were just gasping Like, oh, that's so clever.
We were very excited on thearticular stand weren't we?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
yeah, it was really clever.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I love seeing that and I love seeing like
Australian brands there and itmight seem weird to be all the
way over there and then go and Ialways make an effort to try
and see the brands because it'ssuch a big deal and such a huge
effort to go there in the firstplace to exhibit and there's
it's usually new thingsobviously too.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So you get to sort of just support that and be
excited for them as well, like Iget really excited for people
it is and because, like you know, like we sort of talked about,
like everyone goes to Milan tosort of look for inspiration.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
So seeing like Aussies there, you know,
presenting their work, it'sactually quite incredible and I
think it comes back to what youwere saying, alvin, that we are
so far away that we don't haveaccess to, you know, visiting
Europe so quickly.
Or I mean we do with, obviously, social media and the internet,
but we design in our own wayhere and I think a bit off topic
(19:55):
, but Melbourne Design Week ishappening as we're recording
this, and the 100 Lightsexhibition.
That was incredible to see allof that.
Australian talent and thecaliber is pretty high, I think.
So, yeah, and it is very.
You feel very proud to be ableto see, you know, the Articulos,
rosgarden and Rukumba like ahandful of amazing designers on
(20:19):
that world stage and theirpieces are so gorgeous, so very
cool.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That is.
I love that you're now a biglighting fan, alvin to be
hunting down the new things.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Because where did we go?
We went to Martini, thatapartment, and I was just amazed
with you know how lighting sortof just changed the entire look
and feels and everything.
It doesn't matter what finishesyou've got in there, what
greenery you've got in there,With the right lighting, it's
like you don't have to do much.
It was just so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well that, maltini, I feel like we say that all the
time, don't we?
Lauren Lighting is to do much.
It was just so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Well, that's like we say that all the time, don't we?
Lauren, lighting is everything.
Yeah, that maltini showroom wasincredible.
So that had just been umrefurbished, was it?
Oh, who was the designer again?
Was it axel?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
was probably, I'm not sure.
Uh, I thought it might havebeen there in-house, is it
vincent?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
vincent van dyson.
Maybe we'll have to check that,vincent van dyson, but some
vincenti or something.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Oh, it was just incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
But um, and the pieces there, um, for me that
was a highlight the christophedelcourt pieces, the first
collaboration with malteni.
The sofas were just incredible.
They were beautiful, weren'tthey?
And that was just such a greatexperience.
We went up was it seven floorsor something?
Right to the rooftop.
We went through kitchens,furniture and we were just, and
(21:40):
then we'd bumped into Jackiethere.
So Jackie, she, you know, hastheir showroom in Melbourne.
So it was just again you'rebumping into people there.
I'm in big shock to bump intoJackie at Molteni because she
has the Molteni.
It's not like the biggestcoincidence in the world, but it
was so fun to experience thattogether, wasn't it, alvin?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It was just, yeah, very incredible.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, did you have any like takeaways?
You know, broadly speaking,about Malone.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
So I think you sort of like my biggest takeaway is
definitely the, not theconnections, but sort of like
the networking experience.
Like you know, at the end ofthe day, we it doesn't matter
what role you play in thisindustry we are all one
community and I think being inMilan or any sort of world fair
is that, that opportunity tobring everyone together, and I
think to me that's gold becauseobviously, products wise every
(22:31):
year there's going to be a newproduct, but I think um
connections and networking andthose lifelong friends are, um
something that's way morevaluable oh, that's really
lovely.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I'm spot on too right , we're lifelong friends now, so
you can't get rid of me that'sright, you're, you're in the
inner circle and it's, you know,it is true, there's that sense
of community and there's a lotof people.
And I think we sort of touchedon the busyness before and you
know you having a press passmaybe not the most best person
(23:05):
to speak to about waiting in athree hour long queue, that was
probably not your experience,but you know it is an issue.
People are, I don't know it's,it's just the way it is.
There's fashion brandsexhibiting.
I have to say I don't think wereally.
I didn't attend any of thefashion brands, did you, alvin?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Me neither.
No, I think definitely, likeyou know, there is definitely
some solutions that maybe we can.
They can put out a designcompetition, how to sort of move
up, do a better way on notwayfinding, but just like how to
sort of like solve that problem.
Because I think the queue,definitely it changes your
experience quite significantly,like because one of the worst
(23:43):
ones it was um three hours, umfor one of the apartment woods
and I just thought you know ifyou have to wait for three hours
for to see an apartment by thetime you're ready, was that?
Speaker 3 (23:54):
al decor was our decor I think it might have been
.
Oh, I heard it was three hoursagain for the um apartmento with
artemist oh, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, yeah, which has grown here.
So sort of what happens is so Iwould say, not, not 2024, but
2023.
That was sort of.
It might have been the firstyear that they did it with
collaborations with designers,and then people sort of catch on
.
So then the next year it'sbusier and this was the peak
year, I think, where everyonehad caught on to it and it was
(24:25):
like a you know, have to see it.
And then that sort of happensand it's a massive line and then
it'll kind of like roll on tothe next thing.
So I feel like it's justevolutions of what's the hottest
thing, and it's not always atthe show the first time that it
gets as busy.
It takes like one or two yearsfor it to end up kind of in that
situation, because I've beenthere the last couple of years
(24:46):
and it's never been, and I oftendon't also wait in the lines
because I'll make appointmentsand things, but I've seen the
lines and it wasn't like that.
That was like huge.
But I think it's justrecognition over a period of
time where it gets to that point.
It's the same thing with theMorde, where they used to have
they didn't do it in theirapartment upstairs this year.
But that started, as you know.
(25:07):
You'd wait in a line a littlebit, but it wasn't.
It would keep moving and itwasn't crazy and it didn't feel
like it was an issue to thepoint where people were getting
there, you know, early in themorning and down the street kind
of thing, and that was again.
That was just a buildup ofyears of people going.
This is incredible, you have tosee it.
So it sort of becomes a word ofmouth situation and I think
(25:27):
that was what happened withArtemis.
But three hours is a long wait.
It's not just that.
I think it's that you miss outon other things if you have to
dedicate that much time tostanding in a line for that one
thing and there's just so muchto see that I would find that
quite stressful.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Absolutely, and I think I sort of see both ways as
well, because I think it wasgetting to the point where the
staff was like all right, you'vebeen waiting for a long time
just going.
But it gets to the point whereinside was really crowded as
well, and I think in my lineeverything was about experience
and queuing is definitely notthe most glamorous one.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, and also, if you've come all the way from
Australia, think about how muchmoney you've spent to be
standing in that line.
Accommodation and it's the besthalf of a day three hours the
time.
I don't know what the answer is,but it could be.
You know, as you say, makingappointments, brie.
You know, in the past you'vebeen able to make appointments.
Maybe there is time slots likethe NGV.
(26:23):
The exhibitions there are huge.
Everybody makes an appointment.
I don't think having anexclusive invites only list is
the way to go.
That's just not my vibe.
I like it that it's inclusive.
If you want to wait for threehours, everybody deserves to go
and have a look at it.
In my opinion, and with Demore,I know there was perhaps a bit
(26:43):
of criticism about thefour-minute window that you got
to go and view Demore, but ifthat's what it takes to get as
many people through as possible,then that's what it takes and
I'm all for it.
Yeah, I actually thought theydid it quite.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I thought they did it really well compared to other
years where they do just have along line of people.
This year you did have to booka slot and it was easy because
you didn't have to stand in linefor a ridiculous amount of time
.
They kept people moving through.
It was an experience, so it hada start and an end.
It wasn't this just go in andyou've got four minutes, hurry,
(27:15):
hurry.
You walked in and it was like alittle moment where it had
audio and visual and then thespace, and then they had like
maybe a short moment at the endto be able to take some photos,
because you couldn't take photoswhile the experience was on.
I thought it was actually quitebrilliant because if you didn't
get to make an appointment youmight miss out, but then I'd
(27:36):
rather do that than stand in aline for three hours.
The problem with you know it'sfunny talking to a couple of
people this week and everyonealways goes how is Milan?
Like?
They always want to know.
And I was talking to someone itwas actually Jordan, jordan
Fleming, and she was saying youknow what do they do about?
You know the amount?
Is there too many installations?
I said there probably is.
(27:57):
But it's not like here forDesign Week, where you have to
submit something and then itkind of gets approved and it's
part of an official thing.
Anyone can kind of be involved.
So it would be amazing if theydid kind of decide to try, and I
don't know, make it a littlebit more curated.
But knowing Italy, it's abeautiful mess and I don't think
(28:18):
that will happen.
And they have had apps before,for instance, that you're
supposed to like when I firstused to go get the app and it
never worked.
It never ever worked properly.
You'd be like trying to use itand you'd just give up or it was
just sort of that sort of stuff.
They're just not super great atOther stuff.
Amazing, we will forgive themfor that um, but yeah.
So I don't know, I think it'sjust, it's just an evolution of
(28:42):
any kind of show or design orany kind of, I guess, event not
just in design has an evolutionof sorts and and it peters off
and then it might come backagain and we're just I think
we're just in peak milan designweek at the moment and in terms
of popularity and it'll probablydrop off yeah, and I think
probably Milan itself is notbuilt for that many people
(29:03):
either.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like you know, speaking to some of the taxi
drivers I was like, oh, is thereno?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
no.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Texas, because it was actually quite hard.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah and oh, it's just this one week, normally
we're fine yeah, well, it'sovertaken fashion week, so
fashion week is also in Milan,and I think now design week has
overtaken Fashion Week, soFashion Week is also in Milan
and I think now Design Week hasovertaken it for popularity of
the amount of people that arethere.
I think because it has beenvery inclusive.
Exactly like Lauren says, it'sopen to kind of everyone.
It's a public event.
(29:31):
You don't have to be a designerto attend, and when you do
Fashion Week it is a little bitmore exclusive.
So it's more about media andfashion industry.
I think Design Week has becomepeople will go just because they
kind of just think it's cooland that will be great and it's
Instagrammable, right.
So if you can get there, you gothere and you, you know, you're
an influencer, just kind ofadjacent to that world, right,
(29:54):
you want to kind of like jump inand do it.
So I think that's why it's kindof picked up and yeah, right,
you want to kind of like jump inand do it.
So I think that's why it's kindof picked up and yeah, but I
think you just I love it.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I'll go again.
Oh, totally, and you're right,you know it is inclusive.
But at the same time, salone,going to the actual fair itself,
you need to have a trade.
Oh, yes, you need to be withinthe trade.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
They have a public day on the Saturday.
On the Saturday oh right, Cool.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Isn't it funny that what it started as, which was
the Salone, is now almost like abit of an afterthought compared
to what actually goes on intothe city itself.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
The satellite events have definitely taken over and
Salone has sort of shrunk alittle bit.
At the fair it's definitely.
Yeah, it's evolved, it'sshifted, and I think they'll
struggle to get some of thebrands that have left there and
have showrooms in the city.
I think they'll struggle to getthem back unless there's some
massive change.
So you know and we're seeingthat everywhere, really not just
(30:45):
in Milan, you go, look atAustralia the exhibition kind of
caliber has really dropped andI don't know what they're going
to do to kind of pick that backup again.
I love the shows we have inAustralia, but they haven't been
awesome and I feel like there'sa lot of room for improvement
to kind of get them to be peopleto stay interested in attending
.
So yeah, that's my take.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
So, alvin, would there be anything that you would
do differently next time inMilan, and do you plan to go
next year, or are we going totake a break?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I'm definitely going next year.
I just want just newinnovations because you know, my
favorite category kitchen andbathroom is just going to be
incredible, and with that I justfeel like there is all, not
just new products, but, like youknow, kitchen to me is the
heart of the house and I thinkit's the most important thing
when it comes to design, and sowould love to see what sort of
(31:36):
clever things that brands or,you know, participants sort of
come up with in terms of theinstallations and everything.
Next year I would definitely bemore realistic in terms of my
appointments.
No seven parties tonightanymore, just five then, because
it becomes a mass productionsort of.
You know you just go there,there you don't actually enjoy
(31:59):
being there because you'realways on the clock, whereas
like if you have one event ortwo, then you just go and you
actually enjoy yourself and youknow, enjoy the conversation,
don't feel like you're always onthe clock.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, that's a hard one, because you do.
You definitely do try tosqueeze in as much as you can
while you're there, but I tendto end up kind of going I just
can't.
I can't do this, this and this,even though I intended to.
Right, you can only do so much,otherwise it does become not
very enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, wasn't there a day that you came back to the
apartment to have a na-na-na?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
There was a day I had my seven events the previous
day.
Yeah, yeah, I had my sevenevents the previous day.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And I just think you know talking about well-being.
In the current climate, it'slike you just need to be true to
yourself, like, don't worry,because you end up being, you
know, tired or, you know,sometimes sick as well, and just
you know, I had the mindset atthe end, just kind of like you
know, you can only see what youcan see.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You do have to do that Absolutely, and Lauren and
I have kind of talked about that, like what can you do?
You can't see everything, soyou've just got to accept that
(33:21):
you'll miss some things.
I did get a bit of a bone aboutseeing Demore, because I've
seen it every year and I reallywanted to see it and I did.
I got there at the very end butum but other, there's things
that I know I just have to letgo.
I didn't get to see it, but Isaw amazing things and I filled
every day.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So what you can't do more than that right and I'm
very glad we actually went um,went to um Alcova.
That was actually quiteincredible.
It was amazing actually.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, that was really good.
A lot we're talking about howthat was kind of nice.
So Alcova is sort of justoutside of Milan, in another
little town which I'm forgettingthe name of starts with L, so
it sort of feels like you'rehaving a little break from the
city when you go out there andit's still busy but it's quite
spread out.
You get on the train, get off,you walk through kind of little
the little village and it wasspread out over four or three
(33:59):
different locations.
I think it was four this year,wasn't it?
And yeah, so that was just.
It was kind of a little breakfrom being like in the.
It was just a completelydifferent sort of setting, I
suppose.
So I hope they do that again andhave it outside of the city
that's.
They only did that the firsttime last year.
It's normally somewhere kind ofa bit more industrial and in,
but apparently some of the sitesare getting really hard to get
(34:21):
because they're beingredeveloped, because they need
more houses and homes andapartments generally.
So a lot of those venues orlocations that were sort of
abandoned, warehouse or vacantplaces aren't that anymore
because they've been sold andbeing developed.
So apparently those spaces aregetting hard to come by how dare
they how?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
dare they Don't, they know, we just need that for
that one week a year?
Yeah, like that authenticabandoned yeah.
But I agree, brie, I think atthat stage it was exactly.
What I needed was just to seesome like grass trees like.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
not that Milan is not a beautiful city.
It was like a little brook, butjust spaciousness.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
It was trees, like not that Milan.
There was like a little brook,just spaciousness that's right.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
And then when we went to that amazing um palazzo, I
can't remember yeah yeah, andthen we sat underneath the trees
and we got a drink.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Like remember how we stayed there for like just we
did.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
We didn't really want to leave, yeah yeah, it was
just what we needed.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
so, yeah, it so magic , and I'm so happy we got to
share that experience together.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, how good was the weather.
It was good.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Blessed.
We were quite blessed.
Yes, it was good, it was a good, it was a great year, it was
great people.
Yeah, I'm glad you were around,alvin.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, it was so good.
It was such a good experience,you know, with you guys together
.
It was just yeah magical.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Thank you Unforgettable Next year, yeah
we'll do it again, yeah.
I think that you know, alvin,when I think about what it was
like to spend time with you, Ijust remember just like giggling
, like you're so funny andyou're so much fun to be around
and it was just such a greatvibe.
So thank you for bringing thegood vibes always.
Um, and yeah, when you backdown in melbourne, let's, let's
(36:03):
reminisce again yes, we'll havea reunion dinner or something
actually oh yes, that's a greatidea.
Should we have italian?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
have to.
Oh, thanks so much for joiningus, alvin.
Thank you From the other sideof the world.
Well, not quite the other sideof the world, not quite in
Australia yet either.
But yeah, thanks for making theeffort.
It was such a great kind ofrecap and chat.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Thanks, Alvin.
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