December 10, 2025 • 44 mins
The colour world just lit a match and called it neutral. Pantone crowned white as Colour of the Year, and we couldn’t let that pass without a serious debrief. With our friend and designer Jono Fleming, we dig into why a “blank canvas” lands as apathy for many, how politics always sneaks into palettes, and what this choice says about the stories brands tell when the world feels anything but calm.
We pull apart the forecasting machine—zeitgeist reading, panel dynamics, and the messy lag between runway hype and real homes. From Benjamin Moore & Co's safe browns to WGSN’s transformative teal and Dulux UK’s wave of blues, we compare signals and ask what colour could have held the moment with more honesty. Grey with a breath of blue. A slightly uneasy avocado. Blues that steady rather than sedate. These choices admit tension, instead of painting it out.
Then we get practical. What does white mean in lived-in spaces with pets, kids and real budgets? Why does white often telegraph luxury by exclusion, and how can you use it intentionally—layered, textured, characterful—rather than as a default? We share how trend cycles really move, why your home shouldn’t swing with every headline, and how to keep your colour confidence when the feed shouts “reset.” Design is allowed to soothe, but it should also say something. If your palette helps you act, rest and connect, it’s doing its job.
Subscribe for more candid interior talk, send this to a friend arguing for the landlord special, and tell us: what colour actually reflects the year ahead for you?
Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the Interior Design
Podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me, Bree
Banfield.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
And me, Lauren Li, with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and
lived-in spaces, we're excitedto share our insights and
inspiration with you.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And today we had to call an emergency meeting
because the Pantone colour ofthe year was just announced.
And we are emotional, raging,confused.
All of the above.
All the emotions, we've invitedour friend Jono Fleming to
debrief with us.
Thanks for being here, Jon o.
Speaker (00:43):
Oh my gosh, thank you.
As soon as you said, do youhave time to have a chat about
this?
I was already taking notes forwhoever would want to listen.
I'm mad.
I'm I'm raging.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Same.
I am in I'm in shock.
I am scratching my head tryingto make sense of this.
So let's dive in.
What are your thoughts, Bree?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Um, well, I'm gonna go straight to I think the the
obvious tone deaf situationwhere um we've talked about this
before, where um, you know,politics plays a part in trend
forecasting, right?
Anything that's going on in theworld, negative, positive, um
plays a part.
So there's obviously bigdiscussions that happen before a
(01:31):
colour like this gets released.
You know, they're talking aboutall the ins and outs and the
whys, and they're trying toactually predict something.
So I'm just confused about didit not cross anyone's mind or
did it not come up inconversation that potentially
are white in today's politicalclimate.
(01:53):
And Johnny, you said it reallywell today in in your reel.
If everyone anyone hasn'twatched that, go watch it.
Um that it's a weird, it's aweird choice.
It's like why would you putthat out there unless it's like
a deliberate clickbait, ragebait situation?
Um just different that youdidn't have to go down the path
(02:15):
of white to reflect what youknow their their very short
statement about it is um thatit's about uh relaxation and
quiet contemplation and peoplekind of reverting back to that.
Uh I guess it's quiteintrospective.
But there were there's there'slots of choices you could make
other than white for that.
Agree.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What were your thoughts, Jono, when you first
saw it?
Speaker (02:37):
It's fun because you know, we all designers, everyone
in the design community sort ofin a way waits on bated breath
of like, oh, what's it gonna be?
And often it's a colour that iscontroversial.
No, I don't agree with that.
What's peach fashion is likethat's not gonna be the next big
colour.
And the first thing that cameto mind this morning was like I
(02:57):
open it up and it's like it'swhite.
And first I'm like, what?
Where's where's the trying topunk us?
Yeah.
And then is this real?
I thought it was like PantoneWhite Power.
Like, this thing that came tomy head, and I'm like, I
couldn't not associate it withlike the conversations about
white nationalism andtraditional values and like trad
(03:19):
wifes and all this sort ofthing that's happening in the
states that is spreading thatsort of rhetoric around the
world.
I couldn't not think of it.
And I know a lot of people aregonna go, we absolutely not
leave politics out of this, likethis is just colours and stuff.
And it's like, if you're gonnabe so ignorant to think that
politics doesn't seep into everysingle aspect of our lives,
(03:41):
then you just keep burying yourhead in the sand.
But it's a strategy, right?
If you like neutrals and whitecolours and white paint and
white walls, like you're a giantracist.
I'm not saying that I might sayyou're a little boring in your
interior choices, but you're nota racist.
It's not about you, theconsumer, whether you love this
(04:02):
as a crazy wild concept.
It's really about Pantone, Ithink, making a really big
choice.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think so too, yeah.
And you felt like that too,didn't you, Lauren?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, exactly.
I mean, Pantone is not a paintcompany, and it's not an
interior design company, it is acolour company, a colour
forecasting company.
And as you said at the top,Bree, they are taking in it's
the zeitgeist, it's what'shappening in the world, and
they're kind of, I don't know, Iimagining looking at all
different perspectives and theydecide of the colour of the
(04:34):
year.
And I mean, in the past, I'velooked at the colours, as you
said, Jono, and I'm like, Idon't, I don't see why that's
relevant right now.
But sometimes it's actuallylooking back and I go, oh, that
did make sense, but it tookthree years for it to make
sense.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And my first thought was the same as you, Jono.
I was just like Sydney Sweeney,having good jeans, American
Eagle.
It's so on the nose.
And if they're looking at thoseZeitgeist, then how did they
miss that?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I don't and I feel like um the it's like what you
were talking about with the thetread wife and you know, looking
at looking at something thatdevoid of for me, it's actually
more devoid of emotion when Isee it.
And the the word that I keepcoming back to is apathy.
(05:24):
And I do think there's a lot ofapathy in the world at the
moment.
So from that point of view, andI mean that's not what they're
saying, it is, but that was myfirst thing was this is apathy,
even their whole take on whythat colour, and to not be even
uh in a way considering what'sreally going on at the moment,
which I don't think is sure.
I think we'd all love to dosome quiet contemplation, but I
(05:47):
don't think I think it's I thinkwe're in activation mode,
aren't we?
Not quite contemplation mode.
We're in like what we need todo things and we need to make
changes, and there's a lothappening in the world.
So I get that maybe they'retrying to like say, oh, this is
like the the antidote to that isto like, you know, what are we
saying?
It's like um padded cell.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's giving asylum.
It is giving, I don't find thatcolour calming.
Speaker (06:14):
It's natural whitewashing, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yes, it's just like there's definitely connotations,
right?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Whether you like it or not, there's connotations.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, when I was trying to understand it, um I I
saw that um Laurie Pressman, whois like the the vice president
or the president of Pantone,said it's like a blank canvas
and it's a desire for a freshstart.
And I think that exactly whatyou're saying, Bree, it's
apathy.
It's like what we need morethan ever is for people to be
(06:44):
active, to take action.
You know, I'm just being overeverything.
No, we're in it.
We're so in it.
And you see, yeah, you see likethe ice raids happening and you
know, all of these thingshappening overseas.
And I mean, to some extent, Idon't know how much we take on.
I mean, you sort of mentionedthat before, Jono.
(07:04):
All the white nationalists.
We are influenced by Americanculture, protests and things,
right?
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't want to see white,I don't want to paint over it.
I want to, I want to tackle itheadfirst.
I don't, I'm not up to thatfresh start yet.
Speaker (07:19):
It's the it's the landlord special of like healing
the world.
It's like everything's fine.
Don't worry, we'll paint itover like a lot of the keys,
everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Everything's fine.
We just need a little quietcontemplation and everything was
like fine.
Speaker (07:33):
You know, there's black mold growing under here, like
it's still best for me.
Paint it all white and sayeverything's fine.
It's not.
No way, alright.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And that's making me really mad to think that they
can say that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, yeah.
I um uh, you know, looking attrend things basically daily as
part of my job, and I look a lotat fashion and lifestyle and
even just like you know, TikToktrends and things, and there's
like such a massive backlashagainst that trad wife, clean
girl aesthetic, things beingperfect, even in like graphic
(08:06):
design, like in imperfection,hand-drawn.
This is where I'm seeing thingsgoing because thing people are
really pushing back on it.
And that sort of the messy girlaesthetic is a thing.
People are smoking again,people are like, they don't care
if they're out all night andtheir makeup's the same the next
day.
It's like a really big backlashagainst that.
And for me, this is going theother direction and kind of
(08:26):
trying to reinforce that kind ofI don't know, everything, yeah,
everything's fine.
And um, you know, like theworld is beautiful, and you've
just got to go sit in a whiteroom with some clouds and have a
little quiet contemplation.
It's delusional, it'll be fine.
It is a bit delusional.
Speaker (08:42):
Yeah, it's delusional.
That would have been a littlebit more reflective of like the
world and the time we're 100%.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, I think my sort of prediction was this kind of
avocado green, like a slightlysickly, sickly green.
Because I feel like, yeah,exactly, but could be fresh, but
could be, I guess almost in thechatrouse as you were sort of
um yeah, I don't know, but Ithink it's not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I expected it to be conservative.
I expected safeness because ifyou basically, if you look back
in history, anytime the worldfeels the way it does now,
particularly politically,there's a lot of people who are
very unsure, you know, globalfinancial crisis, we're kind of
like on the edge of that, right?
(09:28):
So what usually happens ispeople return to safety, and
that tends to be safe colours orgrounding colours.
So it's usually in, you know,the brown, beige, greyige, etc.,
in that kind of family of likeuh it feels like a bit of it
does feel like a bit of nothing,but for it to be completely
reset to a white, that's notjust like a bit of nothing.
(09:50):
That's like, yeah, it's likewe're trying to reset when we're
not even, it's not even there.
We're not even close to beingable to reset.
Yes, we might be holdingeverything back and and being
quite safe in decisions thatwe're making about our spending
money or you know, lifedecisions because we're not sure
about what's happening in theworld.
So those things tend to kind ofaffect decisions we make from a
(10:13):
decorating point of view aswell.
But why isn't it?
I'm just, yeah, I'm still Istill think there were better
choices.
Uh um, so the there are otherpeople doing colour of the year.
Painting is obviously one ofthe one of the bigger ones that
we're the average personprobably knows about that.
There's paint companies likeBenjamin Moore, who are
American, and their color waslike a, I would call it like a
(10:36):
grade-off brown, like a charredbrown, very neutral, very
conservative, like rental carpetcolor.
You know that rental carpet?
Speaker (10:44):
I'm just looking it up.
I'm just looking up thatpalette for their 2026 palettes.
Pretty, it's very subdued, butit's really interesting reading
the wording that they're sayingon the website.
So they're saying delicate,traditional.
It literally says here thecolor trends of 2026 signals a
return to timeless classics andthoughtful attention to detail.
(11:06):
And I just read all of that astraditional and delicate and a
return to classics of like goodtraditional family value.
Like this is how it's supposedto be.
And we're not taking riskshere, we're going with karma
colours, and it's thatconfirmative thing.
I mean, Benjamin Moore's anAmerican company, so they're
gonna reflect, you know, what ishappening in that space as
(11:28):
well.
But it yeah, like what you'reseeing it across the board, I
guess, for like two pretty bigcolor forecasters right there.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, the other one, um, WGSN,which is again, they're not a
they're not a paint company,they're not an interior company,
they're just literally a trendforecasting company.
And their color of the yearprediction was transformative
teal, which for me had a lotmore meaning.
And this is, you know, it'ssupposed to be fashion, graphic
design, um, packaging,cosmetics, etc.
(11:59):
So it's really hard, honestly.
I will say it's a verydifficult job to choose one
color as a direction for a wholeyear.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Like that's that's it's not that's why Panda really
didn't choose one.
They didn't choose one.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
They went, it's just too hard.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And they were just looking atthe black piece of paper that
was supposed to be pinningideas, and they went, actually,
it's just what phone like theother thing is, like, people
think that Pantone.
Speaker (12:32):
I think a lot of people hear the Pantone colour of the
year and they go, Oh my god,that's the colour that's gonna
be in fashion.
It's gonna be in every interiornow.
Designers are gonna put it in.
And as you said, sometimes ittakes a couple of years for it
to filter through, and theydon't always get it right.
But I'm thinking back to likeI'm looking at the sort of bat
catalogue of Pantone Color ofthe Years, and I think the first
time it really clicked for mewhen they absolutely bang on
(12:56):
nailed it was 2016, and it wasSerenity and Rose Quartz, where
it was like that millennialperiod.
Yeah, the double color.
And I was like, that was thefirst time I was like, oh,
they've like, they are so on thepulse.
This is it.
Yeah, but they're also trendforecasting, they're not
supposed to always be right onthe money.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You're gonna see no, it is it is a prediction, it's
not a this is right now.
I mean, it's only next yearthough, and we're we're in
December.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But um, but yeah, I mean, you're spot on about like
trend forecasting is not anexact science.
There is a lot of science thatgoes into it, like facts, and
it's not just all woo-woo, butthe timing can change just by
something dramatic evenhappening in the world.
Absolutely.
So, like the you know, itsomething that you think is
gonna roll out kind of in thenext year could take two years
(13:42):
to catch on.
And it could be really fast.
Speaker (13:45):
It doesn't happen.
Like when they did the gray andyellow thing a few years ago, I
was like, gross, nobody wantsthat.
And turns out they didn'treally, like it's not really
coming back in the way that theypredicted.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So gray, I would have actually almost expected
because I was waiting for graythis year.
We saw gray, let's say from aninterior's point of view, grey
is creeping back in, not in abig way like it was all over
walls and you know, all overcabinetry, but it more as an
accent, and it does go very wellwith the butter yellow, for
instance.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But I would have that would have been very, I mean, I
wouldn't have been happy aboutit, but I could see it coming.
Yeah.
Um, grey is like probably oneof the most conservative type of
colours because there's no warpin it.
I mean, you have a warm grey, Iguess, but it's very different
to say doing like a beige or abrown, which is quite
traditional but very nostalgic,and there's warmth and there's
(14:38):
grounding in it.
But a gray is gray is likegoing in a different direction.
And I kind of feel like thatwould have been a better choice,
to be honest.
Because it's a little bit, it'sa little bit sad and
conservative, you know.
Like funny though, like it'smore reflective than white, like
you know, don't you think?
Speaker (14:54):
And I mean, grey and yellow came 2021, so I can see
where the thinking is that we'regonna come out of 2020 and we
need to be uplifted, and there'sstill maybe a bit of shadow in
with it all.
And weirdly, like last year,this year's colour um was
mockamus, and I remember when itcame out, people were like, Oh,
this is so obvious.
So, like, when they get itright, and and it's like it is
(15:15):
obvious, but you know what?
That colour is stilleverywhere, the brown tones are
still everywhere.
So when they get it right,people complain.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
When they get it wrong, it's definitely a rose
quartz.
But I agree with you, Jono,that rose quartz.
Um, I at the time I was like,what, this is random.
And then now I look at TaylorSwift's album Lover, that was
released three years after, andit's Rose Quartz and Blue.
So it's weird how even thePantone colour could actually
even influence music.
Speaker (15:43):
Totally.
It's just across the board.
What's um Life of a Showgirl isall about the like oranges and
stuff, and two years ago it waspeach fuzz.
So maybe let's get the Swiftieson this because they are all
over that, some clue-droppingstuff, and I'm putting it out
there now.
Taylor Swift is working withPantone, and she is printing
(16:04):
this stuff like Oh, there'd be amillion, there'd be a million
of them.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's get the Swifties going on the
conspiracies and the Eastereggs.
Speaker (16:13):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know.
I'm like, I'm my rage hasbubbled down, and I think it's
because I'm talking to you two,but I think it is just look,
there's gonna be a lot ofdefensive people online going,
yeah, this is it.
I mean, look, um, our friendJackie Turk, I'm gonna shout her
out.
She's been wanting to paint herroom at her home, like one of
(16:34):
her uh her living room at home.
And she messaged me today, shegoes, Great, I don't have to
paint it anymore.
I can live white.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no, we're giving fuel to the people who won't
make decisions about color.
Even my neighbor's what I callwhite default, which is why I
like look at it as being kind ofapathy.
And if we talk about white ininteriors, it's not a decision,
it's a default.
People go into a default mode.
They don't even realize it's adecision when they actually go
to the paint store and realizehow many whites there are, and
(17:03):
then they go, Oh shit.
I thought it was just that Icould just go, oh, we'll paint
it white.
Totally.
And then they kind of getcaught up in the, you know,
which white or whatever, or theydon't and they paint it the
whole wrong white.
Yeah, they choose the white.
But it is apathy and it'sindecision and it's being
sitting on the fence and notlike just going bad or do.
Like it's not for me, it's notliving your life, making any
(17:24):
kind of statement or connectingwith any kind of emotion.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Anyway, yeah, I mean that's what I hate.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
No, I was just gonna say that's what I hate about
this cloud dreamer that itdoesn't even have an undertone,
it doesn't have a warmundertone, it doesn't really
even have a cool undertone, itdoesn't have anything.
It's a bit dirty, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
It's like ever so slightly dirty panel white.
Ever so slightly.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But I mean, we've just had white bouquet for the
past however years.
So it's not even it's like anew colour anyway.
Speaker (17:51):
Well, it's a pretty boucle sofa, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
After a few actually quite relatable for me with my
chair.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think there's been some people saying when you
watch that AI, you know, youknow, they do the AI version,
and basically it's somebody kindof floating around with the
with the clouds and the youknow, soft, probably boucle so
far, that it's a a bitdystopian.
I I agree, it's disconnect tome.
It's like disconnect instead ofactually dealing with things.
(18:22):
I'm just gonna go and take mypills.
My head in the clouds.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (18:27):
I think this is the thing, is that, and you
mentioned it, Lauren.
Like, we've spent so many yearsgetting people comfortable
enough to dip their toe in thecolor pool.
And then I've got people likeJackie messaging me, being like,
Oh, thank god, I don't have tomake a decision.
I'm gonna keep the room white.
And I had my neighbor messagewhen he goes, Oh, I was just
getting comfortable with color,but now I can retreat.
And I'm like, No, no, don't doit.
(18:47):
And then a girlfriend We needto revolt.
I know, and one of mygirlfriends who we just told
her, like, paint all the wallsin your house.
She's like, I just painted allthe walls in my house over all
the white.
She's like, I'm going around itchopping all the cushions now.
I'm not listening to anythingelse you say to me.
And I was like, So funny.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Oh my gosh, no, this is so I would say, like, who
wants to be the same as everyoneelse anyway, right?
If this is if white is thething, then we'll push against
it.
Speaker (19:15):
There are gonna be people that love neutrals, that
love white, that love whitepaint, all of that.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's okay.
You were always gonna be.
Speaker (19:25):
When they came out, if they had come out with
chartreuse as the colour, youwould have complained as well.
Like you had your moment, youwin.
It's a big one for them.
Yeah, it wouldn't have beencomplaining.
Oh no, I wouldn't havecomplained.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yes, people will, yes.
Speaker (19:39):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
People would have been like, that colour's
disgusting.
Speaker (19:43):
I think for me, yeah, does raise the bigger question
of how relevant are these bigtrend forms?
Like taking it out of justinteriors, the latest fashion
show that I've just watched wasthe Chanel show.
And Chanel is, I guess youcould.
Say it's a pretty conservativefashion house.
And who's the new uh MatthewBlazy is the probably butcher
(20:07):
that is the new creativedirector there, artistic
director doing the show.
And they did this beautiful uhnew run runway in like an
abandoned subway station.
And it's so good.
And it's full of detail andit's full of colour and there's
animal print and there's allsorts of patterns and things
happening.
And it's a dirty subway.
(20:28):
And it's a dirty subway.
And I'm like, okay, we'regetting told that like this is
the colour of the year.
This is the thing that we'resupposed to be looking out for.
And creatives are just going todo whatever the hell they want.
And I think it kind of showsthat the trend cycle's moving a
lot faster than it used to.
It's not taking years forthings to filter through.
(20:49):
It's definitely not true.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Um well that's the that's the it's yes and no.
So what's happening is yes, ithappens very quickly because we
all see it.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But in real life, how long does it take if you order
a sofa from Italy to arrive in astate?
Speaker (21:06):
People's gonna love their white sofas, so you know
they're right on trend.
Well done.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, that's the other thing, too, is that um
like white has thisrepresentation of luxury, in my
opinion, too.
And like so, there's this sortof purist white is luxury
because if you can have a whitesofa or white carpet or white
fabrics, there's an element ofluxury to that as well.
So like that feels a bit on thenose too.
Like we're like we're headinginto a a situation in a lot of
(21:35):
places where poverty is going tobe a real thing for many people
that weren't in that positionbefore.
Um so I don't know.
It's just I don't know thatit's I don't know that it was a
great um predictor, in myopinion.
I think it was like a a weirdchoice.
I'd love to have been a fly onthe wall of those discussions.
(21:55):
And this and how they actuallylanded there.
Speaker (21:58):
One person in that room would have brought it up,
right?
One person must have brought itup.
And they went, nah, it's okay.
They could have gone withpoverty purple.
I would have been happy withthat.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
That's poverty.
Actually, that wouldn't haveworked either.
Because purple is like a rawcolour.
So that's also yeah, that'spoverty is probably more in the
browns and the and the veryconservative and grey.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Give us something.
It's so nothing.
And I when I looked onto the,I'm trying to understand, I'm
trying to grasp and find someinformation.
And one of the points was it'sa nothing colour, which is
almost like if you're aneco-conscious person, I saw it
on, I think it was like theGuardian website or the Guardian
and a Guardian article, andthey said that it was like an
(22:46):
opt-out and nothing.
I'm not going to buy anything,nothing.
I was like, I don't know if I'mreally convinced about that.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I don't know if we can twist it to being um an
eco-friendly.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, it's I know they've got the white play-doh.
It's like, you know, all thecollaborations that they have,
it's like it's just white.
They already have whiteplay-doh.
Like this, it's just a nothing.
It's not even giving anythingnew.
But yeah, it just seems kind oftone-deaf to me.
But I like what you weresaying, John Out it is hard to
predict the trends because itdoes move so quickly.
(23:19):
But everyone almost has theirown bubble that they're living
in.
And I heard this term, it wasum subjective reality.
Everyone has their own versionof reality, which is always
always being you're living inthe world.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's like having your own algorithm.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Exactly.
It is having your ownalgorithm, or it's like, you
know, walking down the streetand you've got you're listening
to a podcast and you'reexperiencing it this way.
And the next person's talking,they're talking that to someone
there on a phone call on theirown their own reality.
So it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's the reason to have panels that decide this
stuff because you're supposed tohave all the different points
of view come into thediscussion.
Yeah, I've I've been on thesepanels before, and I'm not
talking about, you know, thedeluxe forecast.
I've been involved in globalpanels for trend forecasting,
and we have in-depth, you know,like two-day-long discussions,
(24:14):
you know, in small groups, inbigger groups, we present our
findings, everyone discusses it.
Like it's it's like a properdemocracy.
Um, and we all have a say.
And usually why it's successfulis even though we're all coming
at things from um, you know,our own subjective reality,
which I love that.
I'm gonna use that now.
Um, there's usually stillthreads that connect us all.
(24:38):
We all still live in the world.
We all still are affected by,you know, bigger things that are
happening.
Um, and this happens when youget a whole heap of creatives
together from all over theworld.
And this is why things likeMilan, um, you walk through and
see repeating colours frompeople who have not had
discussions about these colours.
They're not like, you know,messaging each other and going,
I'm gonna put blue on my sofathis year in the display.
(24:59):
What color are you gonna do?
They have never had discussionsbefore, they're on opposite
sides of the world, but we see asame thing, whether it's a
texture, a color, a shape,because we're all, while we're
still living in our subjectiverealities, we're still all
affected by what's going onaround us.
And yes, we're out there in thevibe, guys.
But like yeah, that's why itfeels odd.
(25:21):
And are we missing something asto why this was the decision
when I am making the assumptionthat there were long, in-depth
discussions between people withdifferent points of view, and
maybe that was the problem.
Maybe they weren't coming at itfrom too many different places,
yeah.
Um, yeah, where you get a morebalanced view.
And I agree, trend forecastingisn't easy.
(25:42):
I think it is uh potentiallymore difficult, particularly to
forecast long term.
Um, but it is still, there isstill a science to it.
There is a reality.
History repeats itself.
You can study the way uminteriors and colour and the
reaction to things have evolvedand actually see all the
patterns.
We're human beings.
This is how we live, wherepatterns are our thing.
(26:03):
So there's ways to do it.
Yeah, but I guess the world ischanging, right?
Speaker (26:07):
The world is changing.
So Lauren's Lauren's pick wouldhave been like a dirty avocado
sort of colour.
What would have your colour of2020?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Probably a gray.
Speaker (26:16):
A gray.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
A gray, yeah.
Speaker (26:18):
What a bummer.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I know.
Not you know, and you andthat's but that's literally just
based on where like thedirection of the world and what
I'm seeing happening.
Um, I wouldn't have gone as faras a Y.
Speaker (26:32):
No, absolutely.
Um, yeah, no, because I've youguys have been threatening
Grey's coming back for a while,and I'm just like really
avoiding it at all costs.
But interestingly, like notgoing too far off it, like the
colour that I am, I'm not sayingthat this is my pick for the
trend, but I'm like the colourI'm I'm gravitating towards is
this sort of very pale blue,which between a white and a
(26:55):
grey, really.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
A grey I think and would have been a better
contemplative type colour, Ithink, too.
Speaker (27:02):
All this all the shit that they're saying about like
fresh starts and like all thisstuff and clouds and all this
beautiful dreamy imagery.
If they just dropped one dropof blue in there, it would have
actually all made sense.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, yes, it's a little bit more positive leaning
too.
But the problem is that's notwhere we're at.
We're not in a positive.
I mean, we would like to be,but I think that um, which is
why I would have pickedsomething a little bit more to
include, um, because we'retrying to reflect, you know, the
mood.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
A grey with a tiniest bit of blue or a grey with a
little bit of purple is probablywhere I would have gone.
Speaker (27:40):
Purple as well.
I I I think when what we saw inMilan was a lot of chartreuse,
a lot of purple, the marooneswere still there, but I was
dreading like this like idea ofput purples and chartreuse
coming into fashion.
And now my god, all I want issomeone take that risk and not
give us like beige whitetraditional family values.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, maybe there's just going to be a huge um like
divide, which is also what we'reseeing in the world, a really
big divide between conservatismand um, I guess more
progressive.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
This is definitely not, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, isn't it when you add allthe spectrum together, it's
white?
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So maybe it's all the colours, maybe it represents
all the colours and you choose.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
That's a cop out.
It's a cop out pantomime.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's a cop out.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh no, yeah.
I love I mean, it is worth ifyou um want to read some
interesting comments, it'sdefinitely worth having a look
at their post and going throughthe comments.
I because I liked um it'scrazy.
Speaker (28:46):
People are not happy.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I like someone said um is the colour in the room
with us.
I liked that one.
Um, and someone else saidstraight jacket white, which I
think we already said, likepadded cell.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And then they were talking about dystope.
Oh, yeah.
Like it's just, I didn't reallysee.
Okay, so sometimes there's abalance of comments, right?
Everyone's always going to beup in arms no matter which
colour it is, because it'spersonal.
People like colour, they hatesome, they like others.
That's like everyone has anopinion.
But for me, I felt like thiswas the proper this, I didn't
really see a positive comment inthere at all.
Speaker (29:22):
Um look, as I said, we're not attacking the people
that think that it's a nice,safe choice.
Go nuts.
If you're if people're not acolour person and you've spent
your whole life fighting againstit, you're probably not gonna
be a colour person.
This is your year.
Have fun.
But next year, chat.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
T-Rick, I'm in for you.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We're not gonna take two neutral avoiding things and
having apathy.
Speaker (29:49):
This is the one year you're gonna get this because
next year, Pantone is not gonnafuck up again like they have
this time.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
But I wonder if they actually are taking on any,
like, oh my god, this is notwhat we expected, or do they
expect this?
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because it is like it is a massive marketing tool.
I would say color of the yearhas put Pantone on the map for
people who had no idea whatPantone was.
If you didn't live in a worldof like having to um, even
interior designers, a lot ofthem wouldn't have known what
Pantone was.
Um, I had to use it because Ideveloped products, so we'd use
Pantone as reference.
Um, or if you're a graphicdesigner or you're in printing,
(30:27):
you know Pantone.
But it, you know, that onepoint they just decided they
were going to make themselves areally well-known brand, and
there's now Pantone, you know,branded mugs and all sorts of
things.
Um, but color of the year islike a huge marketing strategy
for them, right?
So I I do have that littlequestion mark of how much of a
(30:47):
decision was this because theyknew it would get a lot of
attention.
Look at us, we called anemergency podcast.
And we're giving them theirtime.
Um, so like you do kind of go,it's a marketing strategy, how
much of it was a marketingstrategy?
I I lean into like wherethey've gone in terms of it
being, I agree with aconservative direction for what
the colour should have been.
(31:08):
However, I I think they reallytook it to the extreme, and
maybe that was a consciouschoice.
I don't know.
Speaker (31:15):
Yeah.
unknown (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
How many of those white mugs are they gonna how
many of those white mugs arethey gonna sell?
It's just a white mug now.
That's funny.
Speaker (31:30):
That is so funny.
Oh no.
Um hey, I guess we'll guess theworld is more oyster now
because um anything else canhappen after this.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, and I I think that's everyone's announced.
I don't I think they're thelast ones to announce a colour
of the year.
The um the other big one thattends to I usually pay attention
to because Australia tends tofollow Europe more than America
in terms of interior trends, um,is the Dulux UK colour of the
year.
And theirs was, I don't knowthat they've done an actual
(32:03):
single colour.
I couldn't find it.
Um, but they've called it DuluxColours with an S of the Year,
and they're blues.
It's a it's a selection ofblues, grooves, slow swing, and
mellow flow.
So I find that interesting thatthey kind of went with that,
and that's a bit more of atransformative type colour as
(32:27):
well.
Um, but that can be reallycalming, yeah, but can also be
quite energizing.
But yeah, so it's very safe aswell.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Blue is a mass appeal.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Blue is one of the most popular colours.
If you ask people theirfavorite colour, blue is one of
the most popular.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So definitely I think it's a safe one because of men
like blue.
Speaker (32:48):
You know what's interesting though, like we say
that, and it is true.
Um, people will say that.
And yet if you look up the andwe're kind of shifting gears a
little bit, I'm really justtaking us on a journey here.
If you go on like everyAustralian furniture website,
yeah, you'll get a caramel orforest green, a chocolate,
maybe, and a beige.
No one sells a blue sofa, likethey've barely get a blue sofa,
(33:11):
and you don't find a lot ofdrugs.
Like blue in interiors issomething people love, but they
don't, as Australians, I don'tthink you'd think there'd be a
lot more.
We're such a coastal nation.
People love the coast, but wego to coast and we just start
going to whites, and you don'tget a lot of blues in the um in
the mix there.
(33:32):
And I'll do it my own plughere, but like a rug collection
at the moment, and one of thebest sellers is this sort of
steely light blue.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, no, the one.
And with a here, I think it Ithink that's a good point,
right?
That people bring they mightnot paint, they might not buy a
blue sofa or paint the wholewall blue because they love
blue, but they'll still includeit in the interior, right?
They'll have blue accents,maybe it's blue in the rug,
cushions, artwork, small pieces,and so they bring it in that
(34:06):
way.
Um, yeah, but it's I'd still Istill say it would be considered
to be a safe color in the worldof actual colour.
Actual colour.
Um it's interesting that uh sothe Dulux UK um colour
explanation is a lot more, Ifeel, progressive compared to
the one you just read fromBenjamin Moore about the
(34:27):
traditional.
They're saying um it offers asense of stability, fluidity,
and boundlessness.
Um, and it's what we need intoday's hectic world.
Also the world's favoritecolor.
Calming properties of blue makeit perfect for creating serene,
fluid, they use that wordagain, color scheme.
So I feel like there's littleundertones of a progressive
(34:48):
direction there compared to it'sa bit more positive.
Yeah.
Speaker (34:52):
Anyway, always interesting, always interesting,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
No, I think who knew that white would be so divisive?
It's white, it's nothing.
Speaker (35:02):
Who knew we could talk about white walls for white
paint and white walls for thislong?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Exactly.
Well, it's been good to chat.
Speaker (35:14):
I think it's I feel better now.
I it's been a really positivesort of therapy session.
unknown (35:19):
Yes, yes.
Speaker (35:20):
I think we needed it.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Have you calmed down or are you more fired after?
Speaker (35:25):
The blood pressure's down a bit.
Um, I'm gonna go drink somewine.
Not white.
You're gonna go.
It's like a rose or uh yeah,something a little hint of
colour in it at least.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Go relaxing in a white room.
Speaker (35:44):
No, God, oh, who wants to do that?
Oh, I can't, and the thing is,I'm getting fired up again.
I'm gonna see lots of peoplejustifying it being it's fresh,
it's relaxing, and it's gonna belike it's not like stressful,
particularly.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
As I said before, it's like a luxury thing because
you need the luxury of a eitherbeing able to clean or replace
it, or be living kind of on yourown with no pets and which I
don't consider to be a luxury,but let's say like people who
are like, you know, able to golike there's no pets in here or
there's no children or whatever.
So it's actually kind of astressful colour for an interior
(36:23):
in a way, right?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Oh, I agree.
Do you know the oh, I was justgonna say the only person who I
love that does white is LeanneFord.
So I'm gonna jump on herInstagram and see what she's
saying about the Pantone colourbecause I think she just is a
really great designer decorator,and she uses white in an
intentional way, and I thinkthat's the difference, right?
(36:45):
And intentional thing as well,Bree.
Yes, it's the room that's whitethat you have intended, and
it's textured, yes, layered,textured, has character, yeah,
has mood.
Yeah, she's a cool person, soshe gets away with it.
Absolutely.
Speaker (37:05):
I think, I think, yeah.
Look, I think we've I thinkwe've said it all.
Um I think so.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And we'll probably repeat ourselves many times over
the coming weeks.
Speaker (37:15):
The thing is, is that like I put up a reel this
morning really quickly, mainlyjust because I was like, I want
to get this off my chest a bit.
Yeah.
And I said in a I normally tryand keep things really positive
because I think there's so muchin interiors and there's so many
people.
I mean, there's a lot of menonline floating heads telling
you what's right and what'swrong.
So I've always been someonelike if I'm gonna be another one
(37:37):
of those men online tellingpeople what to do in their home,
I want to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You do not give that vibe.
Thanks.
Speaker (37:43):
But I'm like, what a value add.
I want to make sure peoplearen't feeling shit about their
interiors.
I don't want people to feel badabout their homes.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Oh no, of course not.
Yeah.
And but if they notintentionally, but if they are
feeling bad about it, sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm everywhere.
Speaker (38:02):
But I think the thing is it's like immediately I have
three friends who I've givenadvice to if they watch my
advice and they're like, ohwait, wait, we we don't need to
paint our homes now.
Okay, we can just live with ourcut like white walls.
Oh, I can regress a bit.
And I'm like, as far as I sortof said this morning, I'm like,
I don't, I normally try and puta positive spin on things.
I don't really have anythingnice to say this time.
(38:24):
And I'm not trying to be aclickbaity person to be like,
here's my rage bait, but I'mlike, I don't have anything
positive to say, and that's justwhat it is.
I'm like, I think immediatelythink about how many people have
bloody color drenched theirhomes this year.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
The whole thing, every goddamn wall, and the
ceiling, and the don't forgetthe train, and then they woke up
this morning and they're like,take it all back to white, and
they've got a deep burgundybedroom.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Like waiting over there to get it back to white.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
They've gotta wake up this morning and feel like
garbing.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
All of a sudden, Julex has been had a huge surge
in sales of their um super hyde.
I think it's called super hideor something, where it's like
the undercoat and like hides thefeet.
Speaker (39:13):
And I feel god for that's the people I feel bad for
who have like finally takenthis big step and like expressed
themselves through colour.
And yes, did I say that ordrinking the feature wall of the
2025?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Sure, maybe, but feature wall in white, yeah.
Speaker (39:31):
It's just the white thing.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
So they've got their burgundy interior, and like, oh
gosh, how do we get back ontrend?
We'll just do a white featurewall.
That's hilarious.
But oh my god, this could be athing.
Jeez, that's weird.
Um, but to be honest, as well.
That's oh sorry, just for thepeople who are maybe flipping
out a little bit.
If the colour had beenchartreuse, would you be
(39:53):
suddenly painting your houseback to chartreuse?
No.
Just because it's white doesn'tmean that you need to adapt it
because it seems like somethingyou can adapt and all of a
sudden everyone's going to dowhite.
They're not.
Did everyone do, you know, pinkballs?
They didn't.
Like it's take it all with agrain of salt, have
conversations about the why ofthe white, I think is important
and more important is to um andhow that applies to you is going
(40:17):
to be different and it doesn'tapply to probably any of us.
We wouldn't go that direction.
But someone might go, well, youknow, I was already here in the
white space.
They're the people that aregoing to be happy about it, I
think.
Um or just, or just like, okay,yeah, it's fine.
They're not going to be ragingabout it like we are.
But I think it's the why, thewhy of the white.
(40:38):
Yeah.
This is the questions.
We need to have thosediscussions.
Speaker (40:42):
Yeah.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
And I and and I glad I'm gladwe dove into it because
someone's going to have thatconversation and it's may as
well be us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Well any last thoughts?
Speaker (40:59):
No.
No, I've I have nothing left.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
It's nothing.
It's a nothing colour and it'sno more comments.
I've got just it's I think I'veI've gone through the emotions
of shock and surprise thenthinking oh my god this sounds
political going in the commentsgetting that yes it is political
because that's what everyoneelse is thinking too and then
disappointment well or no Ithink I was mad and I was now
(41:27):
I'm just disappointed and sadand now I was just like oh
that's nothing yeah it's nothingyou know what now we're all
just going to be flat we've justgot got it out yeah just feel
like disappointed I think wejust keep doing what we do and
spread our love of colour andand discussion and discussion I
(41:50):
think I think that's it like andif anyone is listening God if
you're still here listening tous talk about white and you're
still not convinced that it isisn't a political thing or like
I think either you're a lostcause oh no this is so just that
I don't want to becontroversial online take it all
(42:16):
back.
Speaker (42:16):
Take it all back um I'm full troll mole uh troll mode
now.
No I think troll molecules Ithink I think if you really
don't think that interiorsfashion film art anything like
oh let's keep politics out of itthat's just not the world we
(42:37):
live in.
It's just not realistic.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
In fact I would go the other way and say art exists
to reflect all of those things.
Not always sometimes it is justliterally for aesthetic or joy
but most artists have somethingto say and they're they're
saying it from their point ofview or whatever.
Absolutely so this is thePantone point of view I guess
yeah yeah nothing.
Yeah they don't have one I gotno point of view it should be
(43:03):
called head in the clouds colourshould be called apathy I
reckon yeah that's my that'swhat I that's my that's my
that's the new name forpalatable than white power
slightly slightly oh dear wellthank you for thank you for the
therapy I needed it's just ajumping for the meeting thanks
(43:25):
for the emergency meeting goodFriday therapy session.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yeah thanks John O talk soon thank you we've got
the utmost respect for theWurundjeri people of the Kulin
Nation they're the OG custodiansof this unceded land and its
waters where we set up shop,create and call home and come to
you from this podcast today.
(43:52):
A big shout out to all of theamazing elders who have walked
before us, those leading the wayin the present and the emerging
leaders who will carry thetorch into the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the Interior Design
Podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me, Bree
Banfield.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
And me, Lauren Li, with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and
lived-in spaces, we're excitedto share our insights and
inspiration with you.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
And today we had to call an emergency meeting
because the Pantone colour ofthe year was just announced.
And we are emotional, raging,confused.
All of the above.
All the emotions, we've invitedour friend Jono Fleming to
debrief with us.
Thanks for being here, Jon o.
Speaker (00:43):
Oh my gosh, thank you.
As soon as you said, do youhave time to have a chat about
this?
I was already taking notes forwhoever would want to listen.
I'm mad.
I'm I'm raging.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Same.
I am in I'm in shock.
I am scratching my head tryingto make sense of this.
So let's dive in.
What are your thoughts, Bree?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Um, well, I'm gonna go straight to I think the the
obvious tone deaf situationwhere um we've talked about this
before, where um, you know,politics plays a part in trend
forecasting, right?
Anything that's going on in theworld, negative, positive, um
plays a part.
So there's obviously bigdiscussions that happen before a
(01:31):
colour like this gets released.
You know, they're talking aboutall the ins and outs and the
whys, and they're trying toactually predict something.
So I'm just confused about didit not cross anyone's mind or
did it not come up inconversation that potentially
are white in today's politicalclimate.
(01:53):
And Johnny, you said it reallywell today in in your reel.
If everyone anyone hasn'twatched that, go watch it.
Um that it's a weird, it's aweird choice.
It's like why would you putthat out there unless it's like
a deliberate clickbait, ragebait situation?
Um just different that youdidn't have to go down the path
(02:15):
of white to reflect what youknow their their very short
statement about it is um thatit's about uh relaxation and
quiet contemplation and peoplekind of reverting back to that.
Uh I guess it's quiteintrospective.
But there were there's there'slots of choices you could make
other than white for that.
Agree.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What were your thoughts, Jono, when you first
saw it?
Speaker (02:37):
It's fun because you know, we all designers, everyone
in the design community sort ofin a way waits on bated breath
of like, oh, what's it gonna be?
And often it's a colour that iscontroversial.
No, I don't agree with that.
What's peach fashion is likethat's not gonna be the next big
colour.
And the first thing that cameto mind this morning was like I
(02:57):
open it up and it's like it'swhite.
And first I'm like, what?
Where's where's the trying topunk us?
Yeah.
And then is this real?
I thought it was like PantoneWhite Power.
Like, this thing that came tomy head, and I'm like, I
couldn't not associate it withlike the conversations about
white nationalism andtraditional values and like trad
(03:19):
wifes and all this sort ofthing that's happening in the
states that is spreading thatsort of rhetoric around the
world.
I couldn't not think of it.
And I know a lot of people aregonna go, we absolutely not
leave politics out of this, likethis is just colours and stuff.
And it's like, if you're gonnabe so ignorant to think that
politics doesn't seep into everysingle aspect of our lives,
(03:41):
then you just keep burying yourhead in the sand.
But it's a strategy, right?
If you like neutrals and whitecolours and white paint and
white walls, like you're a giantracist.
I'm not saying that I might sayyou're a little boring in your
interior choices, but you're nota racist.
It's not about you, theconsumer, whether you love this
(04:02):
as a crazy wild concept.
It's really about Pantone, Ithink, making a really big
choice.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think so too, yeah.
And you felt like that too,didn't you, Lauren?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, exactly.
I mean, Pantone is not a paintcompany, and it's not an
interior design company, it is acolour company, a colour
forecasting company.
And as you said at the top,Bree, they are taking in it's
the zeitgeist, it's what'shappening in the world, and
they're kind of, I don't know, Iimagining looking at all
different perspectives and theydecide of the colour of the
(04:34):
year.
And I mean, in the past, I'velooked at the colours, as you
said, Jono, and I'm like, Idon't, I don't see why that's
relevant right now.
But sometimes it's actuallylooking back and I go, oh, that
did make sense, but it tookthree years for it to make
sense.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And my first thought was the same as you, Jono.
I was just like Sydney Sweeney,having good jeans, American
Eagle.
It's so on the nose.
And if they're looking at thoseZeitgeist, then how did they
miss that?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I don't and I feel like um the it's like what you
were talking about with the thetread wife and you know, looking
at looking at something thatdevoid of for me, it's actually
more devoid of emotion when Isee it.
And the the word that I keepcoming back to is apathy.
(05:24):
And I do think there's a lot ofapathy in the world at the
moment.
So from that point of view, andI mean that's not what they're
saying, it is, but that was myfirst thing was this is apathy,
even their whole take on whythat colour, and to not be even
uh in a way considering what'sreally going on at the moment,
which I don't think is sure.
I think we'd all love to dosome quiet contemplation, but I
(05:47):
don't think I think it's I thinkwe're in activation mode,
aren't we?
Not quite contemplation mode.
We're in like what we need todo things and we need to make
changes, and there's a lothappening in the world.
So I get that maybe they'retrying to like say, oh, this is
like the the antidote to that isto like, you know, what are we
saying?
It's like um padded cell.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's giving asylum.
It is giving, I don't find thatcolour calming.
Speaker (06:14):
It's natural whitewashing, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yes, it's just like there's definitely connotations,
right?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Whether you like it or not, there's connotations.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, when I was trying to understand it, um I I
saw that um Laurie Pressman, whois like the the vice president
or the president of Pantone,said it's like a blank canvas
and it's a desire for a freshstart.
And I think that exactly whatyou're saying, Bree, it's
apathy.
It's like what we need morethan ever is for people to be
(06:44):
active, to take action.
You know, I'm just being overeverything.
No, we're in it.
We're so in it.
And you see, yeah, you see likethe ice raids happening and you
know, all of these thingshappening overseas.
And I mean, to some extent, Idon't know how much we take on.
I mean, you sort of mentionedthat before, Jono.
(07:04):
All the white nationalists.
We are influenced by Americanculture, protests and things,
right?
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't want to see white,I don't want to paint over it.
I want to, I want to tackle itheadfirst.
I don't, I'm not up to thatfresh start yet.
Speaker (07:19):
It's the it's the landlord special of like healing
the world.
It's like everything's fine.
Don't worry, we'll paint itover like a lot of the keys,
everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Everything's fine.
We just need a little quietcontemplation and everything was
like fine.
Speaker (07:33):
You know, there's black mold growing under here, like
it's still best for me.
Paint it all white and sayeverything's fine.
It's not.
No way, alright.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And that's making me really mad to think that they
can say that.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, yeah.
I um uh, you know, looking attrend things basically daily as
part of my job, and I look a lotat fashion and lifestyle and
even just like you know, TikToktrends and things, and there's
like such a massive backlashagainst that trad wife, clean
girl aesthetic, things beingperfect, even in like graphic
(08:06):
design, like in imperfection,hand-drawn.
This is where I'm seeing thingsgoing because thing people are
really pushing back on it.
And that sort of the messy girlaesthetic is a thing.
People are smoking again,people are like, they don't care
if they're out all night andtheir makeup's the same the next
day.
It's like a really big backlashagainst that.
And for me, this is going theother direction and kind of
(08:26):
trying to reinforce that kind ofI don't know, everything, yeah,
everything's fine.
And um, you know, like theworld is beautiful, and you've
just got to go sit in a whiteroom with some clouds and have a
little quiet contemplation.
It's delusional, it'll be fine.
It is a bit delusional.
Speaker (08:42):
Yeah, it's delusional.
That would have been a littlebit more reflective of like the
world and the time we're 100%.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, I think my sort of prediction was this kind of
avocado green, like a slightlysickly, sickly green.
Because I feel like, yeah,exactly, but could be fresh, but
could be, I guess almost in thechatrouse as you were sort of
um yeah, I don't know, but Ithink it's not.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I expected it to be conservative.
I expected safeness because ifyou basically, if you look back
in history, anytime the worldfeels the way it does now,
particularly politically,there's a lot of people who are
very unsure, you know, globalfinancial crisis, we're kind of
like on the edge of that, right?
(09:28):
So what usually happens ispeople return to safety, and
that tends to be safe colours orgrounding colours.
So it's usually in, you know,the brown, beige, greyige, etc.,
in that kind of family of likeuh it feels like a bit of it
does feel like a bit of nothing,but for it to be completely
reset to a white, that's notjust like a bit of nothing.
(09:50):
That's like, yeah, it's likewe're trying to reset when we're
not even, it's not even there.
We're not even close to beingable to reset.
Yes, we might be holdingeverything back and and being
quite safe in decisions thatwe're making about our spending
money or you know, lifedecisions because we're not sure
about what's happening in theworld.
So those things tend to kind ofaffect decisions we make from a
(10:13):
decorating point of view aswell.
But why isn't it?
I'm just, yeah, I'm still Istill think there were better
choices.
Uh um, so the there are otherpeople doing colour of the year.
Painting is obviously one ofthe one of the bigger ones that
we're the average personprobably knows about that.
There's paint companies likeBenjamin Moore, who are
American, and their color waslike a, I would call it like a
(10:36):
grade-off brown, like a charredbrown, very neutral, very
conservative, like rental carpetcolor.
You know that rental carpet?
Speaker (10:44):
I'm just looking it up.
I'm just looking up thatpalette for their 2026 palettes.
Pretty, it's very subdued, butit's really interesting reading
the wording that they're sayingon the website.
So they're saying delicate,traditional.
It literally says here thecolor trends of 2026 signals a
return to timeless classics andthoughtful attention to detail.
(11:06):
And I just read all of that astraditional and delicate and a
return to classics of like goodtraditional family value.
Like this is how it's supposedto be.
And we're not taking riskshere, we're going with karma
colours, and it's thatconfirmative thing.
I mean, Benjamin Moore's anAmerican company, so they're
gonna reflect, you know, what ishappening in that space as
(11:28):
well.
But it yeah, like what you'reseeing it across the board, I
guess, for like two pretty bigcolor forecasters right there.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, the other one, um, WGSN,which is again, they're not a
they're not a paint company,they're not an interior company,
they're just literally a trendforecasting company.
And their color of the yearprediction was transformative
teal, which for me had a lotmore meaning.
And this is, you know, it'ssupposed to be fashion, graphic
design, um, packaging,cosmetics, etc.
(11:59):
So it's really hard, honestly.
I will say it's a verydifficult job to choose one
color as a direction for a wholeyear.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Like that's that's it's not that's why Panda really
didn't choose one.
They didn't choose one.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
They went, it's just too hard.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And they were just looking atthe black piece of paper that
was supposed to be pinningideas, and they went, actually,
it's just what phone like theother thing is, like, people
think that Pantone.
Speaker (12:32):
I think a lot of people hear the Pantone colour of the
year and they go, Oh my god,that's the colour that's gonna
be in fashion.
It's gonna be in every interiornow.
Designers are gonna put it in.
And as you said, sometimes ittakes a couple of years for it
to filter through, and theydon't always get it right.
But I'm thinking back to likeI'm looking at the sort of bat
catalogue of Pantone Color ofthe Years, and I think the first
time it really clicked for mewhen they absolutely bang on
(12:56):
nailed it was 2016, and it wasSerenity and Rose Quartz, where
it was like that millennialperiod.
Yeah, the double color.
And I was like, that was thefirst time I was like, oh,
they've like, they are so on thepulse.
This is it.
Yeah, but they're also trendforecasting, they're not
supposed to always be right onthe money.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You're gonna see no, it is it is a prediction, it's
not a this is right now.
I mean, it's only next yearthough, and we're we're in
December.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But um, but yeah, I mean, you're spot on about like
trend forecasting is not anexact science.
There is a lot of science thatgoes into it, like facts, and
it's not just all woo-woo, butthe timing can change just by
something dramatic evenhappening in the world.
Absolutely.
So, like the you know, itsomething that you think is
gonna roll out kind of in thenext year could take two years
(13:42):
to catch on.
And it could be really fast.
Speaker (13:45):
It doesn't happen.
Like when they did the gray andyellow thing a few years ago, I
was like, gross, nobody wantsthat.
And turns out they didn'treally, like it's not really
coming back in the way that theypredicted.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
So gray, I would have actually almost expected
because I was waiting for graythis year.
We saw gray, let's say from aninterior's point of view, grey
is creeping back in, not in abig way like it was all over
walls and you know, all overcabinetry, but it more as an
accent, and it does go very wellwith the butter yellow, for
instance.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But I would have that would have been very, I mean, I
wouldn't have been happy aboutit, but I could see it coming.
Yeah.
Um, grey is like probably oneof the most conservative type of
colours because there's no warpin it.
I mean, you have a warm grey, Iguess, but it's very different
to say doing like a beige or abrown, which is quite
traditional but very nostalgic,and there's warmth and there's
(14:38):
grounding in it.
But a gray is gray is likegoing in a different direction.
And I kind of feel like thatwould have been a better choice,
to be honest.
Because it's a little bit, it'sa little bit sad and
conservative, you know.
Like funny though, like it'smore reflective than white, like
you know, don't you think?
Speaker (14:54):
And I mean, grey and yellow came 2021, so I can see
where the thinking is that we'regonna come out of 2020 and we
need to be uplifted, and there'sstill maybe a bit of shadow in
with it all.
And weirdly, like last year,this year's colour um was
mockamus, and I remember when itcame out, people were like, Oh,
this is so obvious.
So, like, when they get itright, and and it's like it is
(15:15):
obvious, but you know what?
That colour is stilleverywhere, the brown tones are
still everywhere.
So when they get it right,people complain.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
When they get it wrong, it's definitely a rose
quartz.
But I agree with you, Jono,that rose quartz.
Um, I at the time I was like,what, this is random.
And then now I look at TaylorSwift's album Lover, that was
released three years after, andit's Rose Quartz and Blue.
So it's weird how even thePantone colour could actually
even influence music.
Speaker (15:43):
Totally.
It's just across the board.
What's um Life of a Showgirl isall about the like oranges and
stuff, and two years ago it waspeach fuzz.
So maybe let's get the Swiftieson this because they are all
over that, some clue-droppingstuff, and I'm putting it out
there now.
Taylor Swift is working withPantone, and she is printing
(16:04):
this stuff like Oh, there'd be amillion, there'd be a million
of them.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's get the Swifties going on the
conspiracies and the Eastereggs.
Speaker (16:13):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know.
I'm like, I'm my rage hasbubbled down, and I think it's
because I'm talking to you two,but I think it is just look,
there's gonna be a lot ofdefensive people online going,
yeah, this is it.
I mean, look, um, our friendJackie Turk, I'm gonna shout her
out.
She's been wanting to paint herroom at her home, like one of
(16:34):
her uh her living room at home.
And she messaged me today, shegoes, Great, I don't have to
paint it anymore.
I can live white.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no, we're giving fuel to the people who won't
make decisions about color.
Even my neighbor's what I callwhite default, which is why I
like look at it as being kind ofapathy.
And if we talk about white ininteriors, it's not a decision,
it's a default.
People go into a default mode.
They don't even realize it's adecision when they actually go
to the paint store and realizehow many whites there are, and
(17:03):
then they go, Oh shit.
I thought it was just that Icould just go, oh, we'll paint
it white.
Totally.
And then they kind of getcaught up in the, you know,
which white or whatever, or theydon't and they paint it the
whole wrong white.
Yeah, they choose the white.
But it is apathy and it'sindecision and it's being
sitting on the fence and notlike just going bad or do.
Like it's not for me, it's notliving your life, making any
(17:24):
kind of statement or connectingwith any kind of emotion.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Anyway, yeah, I mean that's what I hate.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
No, I was just gonna say that's what I hate about
this cloud dreamer that itdoesn't even have an undertone,
it doesn't have a warmundertone, it doesn't really
even have a cool undertone, itdoesn't have anything.
It's a bit dirty, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
It's like ever so slightly dirty panel white.
Ever so slightly.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
But I mean, we've just had white bouquet for the
past however years.
So it's not even it's like anew colour anyway.
Speaker (17:51):
Well, it's a pretty boucle sofa, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
After a few actually quite relatable for me with my
chair.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think there's been some people saying when you
watch that AI, you know, youknow, they do the AI version,
and basically it's somebody kindof floating around with the
with the clouds and the youknow, soft, probably boucle so
far, that it's a a bitdystopian.
I I agree, it's disconnect tome.
It's like disconnect instead ofactually dealing with things.
(18:22):
I'm just gonna go and take mypills.
My head in the clouds.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (18:27):
I think this is the thing, is that, and you
mentioned it, Lauren.
Like, we've spent so many yearsgetting people comfortable
enough to dip their toe in thecolor pool.
And then I've got people likeJackie messaging me, being like,
Oh, thank god, I don't have tomake a decision.
I'm gonna keep the room white.
And I had my neighbor messagewhen he goes, Oh, I was just
getting comfortable with color,but now I can retreat.
And I'm like, No, no, don't doit.
(18:47):
And then a girlfriend We needto revolt.
I know, and one of mygirlfriends who we just told
her, like, paint all the wallsin your house.
She's like, I just painted allthe walls in my house over all
the white.
She's like, I'm going around itchopping all the cushions now.
I'm not listening to anythingelse you say to me.
And I was like, So funny.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Oh my gosh, no, this is so I would say, like, who
wants to be the same as everyoneelse anyway, right?
If this is if white is thething, then we'll push against
it.
Speaker (19:15):
There are gonna be people that love neutrals, that
love white, that love whitepaint, all of that.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's okay.
You were always gonna be.
Speaker (19:25):
When they came out, if they had come out with
chartreuse as the colour, youwould have complained as well.
Like you had your moment, youwin.
It's a big one for them.
Yeah, it wouldn't have beencomplaining.
Oh no, I wouldn't havecomplained.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yes, people will, yes.
Speaker (19:39):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
People would have been like, that colour's
disgusting.
Speaker (19:43):
I think for me, yeah, does raise the bigger question
of how relevant are these bigtrend forms?
Like taking it out of justinteriors, the latest fashion
show that I've just watched wasthe Chanel show.
And Chanel is, I guess youcould.
Say it's a pretty conservativefashion house.
And who's the new uh MatthewBlazy is the probably butcher
(20:07):
that is the new creativedirector there, artistic
director doing the show.
And they did this beautiful uhnew run runway in like an
abandoned subway station.
And it's so good.
And it's full of detail andit's full of colour and there's
animal print and there's allsorts of patterns and things
happening.
And it's a dirty subway.
(20:28):
And it's a dirty subway.
And I'm like, okay, we'regetting told that like this is
the colour of the year.
This is the thing that we'resupposed to be looking out for.
And creatives are just going todo whatever the hell they want.
And I think it kind of showsthat the trend cycle's moving a
lot faster than it used to.
It's not taking years forthings to filter through.
(20:49):
It's definitely not true.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Um well that's the that's the it's yes and no.
So what's happening is yes, ithappens very quickly because we
all see it.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But in real life, how long does it take if you order
a sofa from Italy to arrive in astate?
Speaker (21:06):
People's gonna love their white sofas, so you know
they're right on trend.
Well done.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, that's the other thing, too, is that um
like white has thisrepresentation of luxury, in my
opinion, too.
And like so, there's this sortof purist white is luxury
because if you can have a whitesofa or white carpet or white
fabrics, there's an element ofluxury to that as well.
So like that feels a bit on thenose too.
Like we're like we're headinginto a a situation in a lot of
(21:35):
places where poverty is going tobe a real thing for many people
that weren't in that positionbefore.
Um so I don't know.
It's just I don't know thatit's I don't know that it was a
great um predictor, in myopinion.
I think it was like a a weirdchoice.
I'd love to have been a fly onthe wall of those discussions.
(21:55):
And this and how they actuallylanded there.
Speaker (21:58):
One person in that room would have brought it up,
right?
One person must have brought itup.
And they went, nah, it's okay.
They could have gone withpoverty purple.
I would have been happy withthat.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
That's poverty.
Actually, that wouldn't haveworked either.
Because purple is like a rawcolour.
So that's also yeah, that'spoverty is probably more in the
browns and the and the veryconservative and grey.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Give us something.
It's so nothing.
And I when I looked onto the,I'm trying to understand, I'm
trying to grasp and find someinformation.
And one of the points was it'sa nothing colour, which is
almost like if you're aneco-conscious person, I saw it
on, I think it was like theGuardian website or the Guardian
and a Guardian article, andthey said that it was like an
(22:46):
opt-out and nothing.
I'm not going to buy anything,nothing.
I was like, I don't know if I'mreally convinced about that.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I don't know if we can twist it to being um an
eco-friendly.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, it's I know they've got the white play-doh.
It's like, you know, all thecollaborations that they have,
it's like it's just white.
They already have whiteplay-doh.
Like this, it's just a nothing.
It's not even giving anythingnew.
But yeah, it just seems kind oftone-deaf to me.
But I like what you weresaying, John Out it is hard to
predict the trends because itdoes move so quickly.
(23:19):
But everyone almost has theirown bubble that they're living
in.
And I heard this term, it wasum subjective reality.
Everyone has their own versionof reality, which is always
always being you're living inthe world.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's like having your own algorithm.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Exactly.
It is having your ownalgorithm, or it's like, you
know, walking down the streetand you've got you're listening
to a podcast and you'reexperiencing it this way.
And the next person's talking,they're talking that to someone
there on a phone call on theirown their own reality.
So it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's the reason to have panels that decide this
stuff because you're supposed tohave all the different points
of view come into thediscussion.
Yeah, I've I've been on thesepanels before, and I'm not
talking about, you know, thedeluxe forecast.
I've been involved in globalpanels for trend forecasting,
and we have in-depth, you know,like two-day-long discussions,
(24:14):
you know, in small groups, inbigger groups, we present our
findings, everyone discusses it.
Like it's it's like a properdemocracy.
Um, and we all have a say.
And usually why it's successfulis even though we're all coming
at things from um, you know,our own subjective reality,
which I love that.
I'm gonna use that now.
Um, there's usually stillthreads that connect us all.
(24:38):
We all still live in the world.
We all still are affected by,you know, bigger things that are
happening.
Um, and this happens when youget a whole heap of creatives
together from all over theworld.
And this is why things likeMilan, um, you walk through and
see repeating colours frompeople who have not had
discussions about these colours.
They're not like, you know,messaging each other and going,
I'm gonna put blue on my sofathis year in the display.
(24:59):
What color are you gonna do?
They have never had discussionsbefore, they're on opposite
sides of the world, but we see asame thing, whether it's a
texture, a color, a shape,because we're all, while we're
still living in our subjectiverealities, we're still all
affected by what's going onaround us.
And yes, we're out there in thevibe, guys.
But like yeah, that's why itfeels odd.
(25:21):
And are we missing something asto why this was the decision
when I am making the assumptionthat there were long, in-depth
discussions between people withdifferent points of view, and
maybe that was the problem.
Maybe they weren't coming at itfrom too many different places,
yeah.
Um, yeah, where you get a morebalanced view.
And I agree, trend forecastingisn't easy.
(25:42):
I think it is uh potentiallymore difficult, particularly to
forecast long term.
Um, but it is still, there isstill a science to it.
There is a reality.
History repeats itself.
You can study the way uminteriors and colour and the
reaction to things have evolvedand actually see all the
patterns.
We're human beings.
This is how we live, wherepatterns are our thing.
(26:03):
So there's ways to do it.
Yeah, but I guess the world ischanging, right?
Speaker (26:07):
The world is changing.
So Lauren's Lauren's pick wouldhave been like a dirty avocado
sort of colour.
What would have your colour of2020?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Probably a gray.
Speaker (26:16):
A gray.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
A gray, yeah.
Speaker (26:18):
What a bummer.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I know.
Not you know, and you andthat's but that's literally just
based on where like thedirection of the world and what
I'm seeing happening.
Um, I wouldn't have gone as faras a Y.
Speaker (26:32):
No, absolutely.
Um, yeah, no, because I've youguys have been threatening
Grey's coming back for a while,and I'm just like really
avoiding it at all costs.
But interestingly, like notgoing too far off it, like the
colour that I am, I'm not sayingthat this is my pick for the
trend, but I'm like the colourI'm I'm gravitating towards is
this sort of very pale blue,which between a white and a
(26:55):
grey, really.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
A grey I think and would have been a better
contemplative type colour, Ithink, too.
Speaker (27:02):
All this all the shit that they're saying about like
fresh starts and like all thisstuff and clouds and all this
beautiful dreamy imagery.
If they just dropped one dropof blue in there, it would have
actually all made sense.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, yes, it's a little bit more positive leaning
too.
But the problem is that's notwhere we're at.
We're not in a positive.
I mean, we would like to be,but I think that um, which is
why I would have pickedsomething a little bit more to
include, um, because we'retrying to reflect, you know, the
mood.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
A grey with a tiniest bit of blue or a grey with a
little bit of purple is probablywhere I would have gone.
Speaker (27:40):
Purple as well.
I I I think when what we saw inMilan was a lot of chartreuse,
a lot of purple, the marooneswere still there, but I was
dreading like this like idea ofput purples and chartreuse
coming into fashion.
And now my god, all I want issomeone take that risk and not
give us like beige whitetraditional family values.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, maybe there's just going to be a huge um like
divide, which is also what we'reseeing in the world, a really
big divide between conservatismand um, I guess more
progressive.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
This is definitely not, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, isn't it when you add allthe spectrum together, it's
white?
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So maybe it's all the colours, maybe it represents
all the colours and you choose.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
That's a cop out.
It's a cop out pantomime.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's a cop out.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh no, yeah.
I love I mean, it is worth ifyou um want to read some
interesting comments, it'sdefinitely worth having a look
at their post and going throughthe comments.
I because I liked um it'scrazy.
Speaker (28:46):
People are not happy.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I like someone said um is the colour in the room
with us.
I liked that one.
Um, and someone else saidstraight jacket white, which I
think we already said, likepadded cell.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And then they were talking about dystope.
Oh, yeah.
Like it's just, I didn't reallysee.
Okay, so sometimes there's abalance of comments, right?
Everyone's always going to beup in arms no matter which
colour it is, because it'spersonal.
People like colour, they hatesome, they like others.
That's like everyone has anopinion.
But for me, I felt like thiswas the proper this, I didn't
really see a positive comment inthere at all.
Speaker (29:22):
Um look, as I said, we're not attacking the people
that think that it's a nice,safe choice.
Go nuts.
If you're if people're not acolour person and you've spent
your whole life fighting againstit, you're probably not gonna
be a colour person.
This is your year.
Have fun.
But next year, chat.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
T-Rick, I'm in for you.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We're not gonna take two neutral avoiding things and
having apathy.
Speaker (29:49):
This is the one year you're gonna get this because
next year, Pantone is not gonnafuck up again like they have
this time.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
But I wonder if they actually are taking on any,
like, oh my god, this is notwhat we expected, or do they
expect this?
I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Because it is like it is a massive marketing tool.
I would say color of the yearhas put Pantone on the map for
people who had no idea whatPantone was.
If you didn't live in a worldof like having to um, even
interior designers, a lot ofthem wouldn't have known what
Pantone was.
Um, I had to use it because Ideveloped products, so we'd use
Pantone as reference.
Um, or if you're a graphicdesigner or you're in printing,
(30:27):
you know Pantone.
But it, you know, that onepoint they just decided they
were going to make themselves areally well-known brand, and
there's now Pantone, you know,branded mugs and all sorts of
things.
Um, but color of the year islike a huge marketing strategy
for them, right?
So I I do have that littlequestion mark of how much of a
(30:47):
decision was this because theyknew it would get a lot of
attention.
Look at us, we called anemergency podcast.
And we're giving them theirtime.
Um, so like you do kind of go,it's a marketing strategy, how
much of it was a marketingstrategy?
I I lean into like wherethey've gone in terms of it
being, I agree with aconservative direction for what
the colour should have been.
(31:08):
However, I I think they reallytook it to the extreme, and
maybe that was a consciouschoice.
I don't know.
Speaker (31:15):
Yeah.
unknown (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
How many of those white mugs are they gonna how
many of those white mugs arethey gonna sell?
It's just a white mug now.
That's funny.
Speaker (31:30):
That is so funny.
Oh no.
Um hey, I guess we'll guess theworld is more oyster now
because um anything else canhappen after this.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, and I I think that's everyone's announced.
I don't I think they're thelast ones to announce a colour
of the year.
The um the other big one thattends to I usually pay attention
to because Australia tends tofollow Europe more than America
in terms of interior trends, um,is the Dulux UK colour of the
year.
And theirs was, I don't knowthat they've done an actual
(32:03):
single colour.
I couldn't find it.
Um, but they've called it DuluxColours with an S of the Year,
and they're blues.
It's a it's a selection ofblues, grooves, slow swing, and
mellow flow.
So I find that interesting thatthey kind of went with that,
and that's a bit more of atransformative type colour as
(32:27):
well.
Um, but that can be reallycalming, yeah, but can also be
quite energizing.
But yeah, so it's very safe aswell.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Blue is a mass appeal.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Blue is one of the most popular colours.
If you ask people theirfavorite colour, blue is one of
the most popular.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So definitely I think it's a safe one because of men
like blue.
Speaker (32:48):
You know what's interesting though, like we say
that, and it is true.
Um, people will say that.
And yet if you look up the andwe're kind of shifting gears a
little bit, I'm really justtaking us on a journey here.
If you go on like everyAustralian furniture website,
yeah, you'll get a caramel orforest green, a chocolate,
maybe, and a beige.
No one sells a blue sofa, likethey've barely get a blue sofa,
(33:11):
and you don't find a lot ofdrugs.
Like blue in interiors issomething people love, but they
don't, as Australians, I don'tthink you'd think there'd be a
lot more.
We're such a coastal nation.
People love the coast, but wego to coast and we just start
going to whites, and you don'tget a lot of blues in the um in
the mix there.
(33:32):
And I'll do it my own plughere, but like a rug collection
at the moment, and one of thebest sellers is this sort of
steely light blue.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, no, the one.
And with a here, I think it Ithink that's a good point,
right?
That people bring they mightnot paint, they might not buy a
blue sofa or paint the wholewall blue because they love
blue, but they'll still includeit in the interior, right?
They'll have blue accents,maybe it's blue in the rug,
cushions, artwork, small pieces,and so they bring it in that
(34:06):
way.
Um, yeah, but it's I'd still Istill say it would be considered
to be a safe color in the worldof actual colour.
Actual colour.
Um it's interesting that uh sothe Dulux UK um colour
explanation is a lot more, Ifeel, progressive compared to
the one you just read fromBenjamin Moore about the
(34:27):
traditional.
They're saying um it offers asense of stability, fluidity,
and boundlessness.
Um, and it's what we need intoday's hectic world.
Also the world's favoritecolor.
Calming properties of blue makeit perfect for creating serene,
fluid, they use that wordagain, color scheme.
So I feel like there's littleundertones of a progressive
(34:48):
direction there compared to it'sa bit more positive.
Yeah.
Speaker (34:52):
Anyway, always interesting, always interesting,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
No, I think who knew that white would be so divisive?
It's white, it's nothing.
Speaker (35:02):
Who knew we could talk about white walls for white
paint and white walls for thislong?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Exactly.
Well, it's been good to chat.
Speaker (35:14):
I think it's I feel better now.
I it's been a really positivesort of therapy session.
unknown (35:19):
Yes, yes.
Speaker (35:20):
I think we needed it.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Have you calmed down or are you more fired after?
Speaker (35:25):
The blood pressure's down a bit.
Um, I'm gonna go drink somewine.
Not white.
You're gonna go.
It's like a rose or uh yeah,something a little hint of
colour in it at least.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Go relaxing in a white room.
Speaker (35:44):
No, God, oh, who wants to do that?
Oh, I can't, and the thing is,I'm getting fired up again.
I'm gonna see lots of peoplejustifying it being it's fresh,
it's relaxing, and it's gonna belike it's not like stressful,
particularly.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
As I said before, it's like a luxury thing because
you need the luxury of a eitherbeing able to clean or replace
it, or be living kind of on yourown with no pets and which I
don't consider to be a luxury,but let's say like people who
are like, you know, able to golike there's no pets in here or
there's no children or whatever.
So it's actually kind of astressful colour for an interior
(36:23):
in a way, right?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Oh, I agree.
Do you know the oh, I was justgonna say the only person who I
love that does white is LeanneFord.
So I'm gonna jump on herInstagram and see what she's
saying about the Pantone colourbecause I think she just is a
really great designer decorator,and she uses white in an
intentional way, and I thinkthat's the difference, right?
(36:45):
And intentional thing as well,Bree.
Yes, it's the room that's whitethat you have intended, and
it's textured, yes, layered,textured, has character, yeah,
has mood.
Yeah, she's a cool person, soshe gets away with it.
Absolutely.
Speaker (37:05):
I think, I think, yeah.
Look, I think we've I thinkwe've said it all.
Um I think so.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And we'll probably repeat ourselves many times over
the coming weeks.
Speaker (37:15):
The thing is, is that like I put up a reel this
morning really quickly, mainlyjust because I was like, I want
to get this off my chest a bit.
Yeah.
And I said in a I normally tryand keep things really positive
because I think there's so muchin interiors and there's so many
people.
I mean, there's a lot of menonline floating heads telling
you what's right and what'swrong.
So I've always been someonelike if I'm gonna be another one
(37:37):
of those men online tellingpeople what to do in their home,
I want to do it.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You do not give that vibe.
Thanks.
Speaker (37:43):
But I'm like, what a value add.
I want to make sure peoplearen't feeling shit about their
interiors.
I don't want people to feel badabout their homes.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Oh no, of course not.
Yeah.
And but if they notintentionally, but if they are
feeling bad about it, sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm everywhere.
Speaker (38:02):
But I think the thing is it's like immediately I have
three friends who I've givenadvice to if they watch my
advice and they're like, ohwait, wait, we we don't need to
paint our homes now.
Okay, we can just live with ourcut like white walls.
Oh, I can regress a bit.
And I'm like, as far as I sortof said this morning, I'm like,
I don't, I normally try and puta positive spin on things.
I don't really have anythingnice to say this time.
(38:24):
And I'm not trying to be aclickbaity person to be like,
here's my rage bait, but I'mlike, I don't have anything
positive to say, and that's justwhat it is.
I'm like, I think immediatelythink about how many people have
bloody color drenched theirhomes this year.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
The whole thing, every goddamn wall, and the
ceiling, and the don't forgetthe train, and then they woke up
this morning and they're like,take it all back to white, and
they've got a deep burgundybedroom.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Like waiting over there to get it back to white.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
They've gotta wake up this morning and feel like
garbing.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
All of a sudden, Julex has been had a huge surge
in sales of their um super hyde.
I think it's called super hideor something, where it's like
the undercoat and like hides thefeet.
Speaker (39:13):
And I feel god for that's the people I feel bad for
who have like finally takenthis big step and like expressed
themselves through colour.
And yes, did I say that ordrinking the feature wall of the
2025?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Sure, maybe, but feature wall in white, yeah.
Speaker (39:31):
It's just the white thing.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
So they've got their burgundy interior, and like, oh
gosh, how do we get back ontrend?
We'll just do a white featurewall.
That's hilarious.
But oh my god, this could be athing.
Jeez, that's weird.
Um, but to be honest, as well.
That's oh sorry, just for thepeople who are maybe flipping
out a little bit.
If the colour had beenchartreuse, would you be
(39:53):
suddenly painting your houseback to chartreuse?
No.
Just because it's white doesn'tmean that you need to adapt it
because it seems like somethingyou can adapt and all of a
sudden everyone's going to dowhite.
They're not.
Did everyone do, you know, pinkballs?
They didn't.
Like it's take it all with agrain of salt, have
conversations about the why ofthe white, I think is important
and more important is to um andhow that applies to you is going
(40:17):
to be different and it doesn'tapply to probably any of us.
We wouldn't go that direction.
But someone might go, well, youknow, I was already here in the
white space.
They're the people that aregoing to be happy about it, I
think.
Um or just, or just like, okay,yeah, it's fine.
They're not going to be ragingabout it like we are.
But I think it's the why, thewhy of the white.
(40:38):
Yeah.
This is the questions.
We need to have thosediscussions.
Speaker (40:42):
Yeah.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
And I and and I glad I'm gladwe dove into it because
someone's going to have thatconversation and it's may as
well be us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Well any last thoughts?
Speaker (40:59):
No.
No, I've I have nothing left.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
It's nothing.
It's a nothing colour and it'sno more comments.
I've got just it's I think I'veI've gone through the emotions
of shock and surprise thenthinking oh my god this sounds
political going in the commentsgetting that yes it is political
because that's what everyoneelse is thinking too and then
disappointment well or no Ithink I was mad and I was now
(41:27):
I'm just disappointed and sadand now I was just like oh
that's nothing yeah it's nothingyou know what now we're all
just going to be flat we've justgot got it out yeah just feel
like disappointed I think wejust keep doing what we do and
spread our love of colour andand discussion and discussion I
(41:50):
think I think that's it like andif anyone is listening God if
you're still here listening tous talk about white and you're
still not convinced that it isisn't a political thing or like
I think either you're a lostcause oh no this is so just that
I don't want to becontroversial online take it all
(42:16):
back.
Speaker (42:16):
Take it all back um I'm full troll mole uh troll mode
now.
No I think troll molecules Ithink I think if you really
don't think that interiorsfashion film art anything like
oh let's keep politics out of itthat's just not the world we
(42:37):
live in.
It's just not realistic.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
In fact I would go the other way and say art exists
to reflect all of those things.
Not always sometimes it is justliterally for aesthetic or joy
but most artists have somethingto say and they're they're
saying it from their point ofview or whatever.
Absolutely so this is thePantone point of view I guess
yeah yeah nothing.
Yeah they don't have one I gotno point of view it should be
(43:03):
called head in the clouds colourshould be called apathy I
reckon yeah that's my that'swhat I that's my that's my
that's the new name forpalatable than white power
slightly slightly oh dear wellthank you for thank you for the
therapy I needed it's just ajumping for the meeting thanks
(43:25):
for the emergency meeting goodFriday therapy session.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Yeah thanks John O talk soon thank you we've got
the utmost respect for theWurundjeri people of the Kulin
Nation they're the OG custodiansof this unceded land and its
waters where we set up shop,create and call home and come to
you from this podcast today.
(43:52):
A big shout out to all of theamazing elders who have walked
before us, those leading the wayin the present and the emerging
leaders who will carry thetorch into the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
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