Redefining Luxury: Nickolas Gurtler on Personal Style and Timeless Design

Renowned interior designer Nickolas Gurtler invites us to rethink the concept of luxury in our homes. He shares his unique experiences working on projects like a menopause clinic and a lively New York apartment, emphasizing that luxury is a personal journey, not just a display of wealth. Discover how Nickolas's perspective on luxury intertwines comfort, functionality, and personal flair, as well as the growing appeal of vintage pieces. With recent accolades such as a Vogue feature and a new book project, Nickolas offers listeners a peek into the creative mind behind stunning, personalized spaces.

Our conversation takes an empowering turn as we explore design's transformative power, particularly for women. Drawing inspiration from the timeless elegance of Monica Bellucci and the charm of 1970s Milanese style, we discuss the symbolism of red lipstick and the importance of redefining menopause. Nickolas shares insights from his collaborations with luxury brands like Tiffany & Co., Chanel, and Gucci, illustrating how luxury can enhance daily rituals through quality materials and thoughtful design. We delve into the role of vintage influences and personalized touches in creating spaces that not only look luxurious but feel it too.

The journey continues with a focus on sustainability in luxury design, where we highlight the importance of timeless choices and the craftsmanship of bespoke lighting. Uncover how Australian designers like Christopher Boots are redefining lighting as the "jewelry of a project," enhancing a home's ambiance and exclusivity. This episode celebrates the subjective nature of luxury, encouraging listeners to embrace indulgent and quirky choices that bring joy and happiness to their living spaces. Nickolas leaves us with the idea that true luxury isn't just about aesthetics but about the soul and character infused into every corner of a home.

Check out Nick's Social Media on Instagram & his Website

Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD

If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?

These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE

YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Me, b Banfield and me , Lauren Li, with some amazing
guest appearances along the way.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
We're here to break down everything from current
trends to timeless style.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and
lived-in spaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights and inspiration with
you and in this really engagingconversation with Nickolas
Gurtler, an accomplishedinterior designer.
He shares insights into theessence of luxury in interior
design.
He discusses his recentprojects, including a unique

(00:38):
menopause clinic that wasunexpected, and elaborates on
how luxury transcends mereopulence into encompassing
comfort, functionality andpersonal expression.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
It was an interesting one the menopause clinic, I
must admit, but I'm quitefascinated to see that one.
We discuss how personal tasteinfluences design choices and
the evolving perception ofluxury, emphasising the value of
vintage pieces and the need forharmony in design.
The conversation highlights theidea that luxury is subjective

(01:12):
and can be defined differentlyby each person.
Yeah, that was probably one ofthe biggest outtakes, I think,
from the discussion.
The definition of luxurydefinitely changes from person
to person, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think, yeah, it was so great to hear Nickolas's
you know interpretation ofluxury.
It's not just all about goldshiny things, is it?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
No, definitely not.
While we're talking aboutluxury, I am saying to come and
have a look at the show notesand our offers down there and
links to the other work that wedo which could be luxurious in
your opinion.
I have a link there to thenewsletter for information on

(01:52):
what I've got coming up, whichwill be design packages that are
available and trend informationweekly and also some short
courses that we'll be releasing.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
So sign up to know more about that Gorgeous and
yeah, I think that really tiesinto that.
You know that idea of luxuryand being a personal thing for
you, what that is for you, andyou know with your furniture
collections you can create thatidea of luxury in your own home,
that you've got Bree sort ofguiding you and holding your

(02:25):
hand and giving you thoseamazing resources, which is
beautiful, yes, I think we allyou know deserve to have a
little level of luxury in ourlives Very much, if we can,
absolutely.
Yeah, and before we get started,I'll just remind you guys that
in the Design Society this yearwe are kicking off our mentor

(02:45):
groups, very small groups, withlike-minded designers.
We're just trying to live acreative life and be profitable
and do our best work together.
So it's a beautiful way just to, yeah, not feel so alone out
there.
All right, without any furtherado, let's dive into this
fantastic conversation withNickolas Gurtler.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Amazing.
Welcome, nick.
We are going to be talkingtoday with Nickolas Gurtler,
amazing interior designer, aboutwhat makes a luxury interior.
But before we dive into that,we also love to ask, Nick, what

(03:26):
have you been up to lately?
Anything interesting to report?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Well, thank you both for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
What have I been working on?
We've been doing so much in thelead up to the end of the year.
Actually, I'm working onapartments in New York and in
Sydney, houses in Perth,brisbane.
Melbourne and Perth a lightingshowroom, a dental practice, a
little perfume project.
There's a little fun passionone on the side.

(03:52):
So yeah, I've been workingquite a bit and we just
completed a really excitingmedical project which is going
to be in Vogue in January.
So stay tuned.
That's so exciting, veryexciting project, probably the
most significant one I've donepersonally in my career.
And we just celebrated the nineyear birthday of the business
last week.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, you did, congratulations Thank you.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I was just elected to the Victorian Council for the
Design Institute of Australia,so that's really exciting.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Congratulations.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Thank you.
I'm hoping to really make somechange in the industry.
So yeah, I'm really reallyexcited about that, and the last
thing I'm doing is I'm startingwork on my book to celebrate 10
years.
So, lots of balls in the air.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Wow, that is impressive that is impressive.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
So many things and they're not like just a couple
of things.
And here's one big thing.
They're all quite huge.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
We try.
I'm an overachiever, alwayshave been.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
So can.
I just Sorry go.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Lauren.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, I was just going to say so many things that
you just mentioned then.
But can I ask you about the NewYork apartment, like, how did
you score?
A project in New York.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I was over there.
As you guys know, my partnerlives there, so I was over in
New York in July and justthrough social media, basically
it's a little.
It's a small project, but it'san exciting one, working in an
old heritage warehouseconversion apartment, so it
should be really fun.
A little bit colourful yeah, itshould be fun.

(05:25):
So we'll be completing that inthe early part of next year.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's exciting.
When will you be heading backthere?

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Probably end of Jan, early Feb and then probably
again in July.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Amazing, I love that and a book.
So when you say you've startedthat, how far along the track
are you Like?
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (05:46):
I've been thinking about it for a really long time
and I wanted to do something atthe 10-year mark.
I felt time.
As you can see, I'm an avidbook collector.
Yeah, and look, I've gotLauren's book here.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
There we go.
Thank you on the top of thepile there.
That's so sweet, thank you.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
But no, I wanted to do something to kind of
commemorate 10 years.
We've worked on so many thingsin 10 years and I really wanted
to think about what kind ofangle I would go on.
And I think what I want to dois talk about the blurring of
the line between residential andcommercial.
I feel like I work strugglesthat quite a lot.
So the working title isResmercial, but it's not going
to be that.
It's going to be something moreinteresting and exciting,

(06:29):
something along the lines of um,yeah, that kind of context.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
So, um, yeah, it should be exciting.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
It's really fun.
Yeah, super exciting.
I will be hassling lauren for alot of advice on booking.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, I've got so many questions about the book.
I mean, you already have somuch absolutely stunning imagery
of your projects, so that's,that's done.
Um are you going?
To work with a publisher or areyou going to self-publish?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
I don't know actually , um, I'm not sure.
I think we probably would shopthe idea around to the
publishers and see what happens,but, um, there's not a lot of
books on commercial interiordesign, I think, from an
australian perspective anyway,it's a lot of residential and I
didn't want to just do aportfolio of our work.
I just didn't feel like thatwas the right kind of direction.
We wanted to go on right nowanyway, so we'll see.

(07:11):
You're right there isn't a lotof Very exciting yeah, no, there
isn't.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
I can't think of anything specifically.
I mean, there's probably somemaybe that we don't know about,
but you'd be right, I think mostof it's based on residential
and probably even moredecorating in a way.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, I would agree.
It's a lot of decorating stuff,so yeah, so anyway, that should
be exciting, a little funpassion project that I'm going
to somehow have to find time for.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I mean talking about that blur of the
residential and commercial.
When you just mentioned thatyou've got a project, a medical
centre in Vogue Living, likethat does not make sense to me.
You know, and that's really.
You know, how many medicalcentres do you think Vogue
Living would publish?
Probably not many.
That says a lot about your workreally, and that is the yeah,

(08:00):
because that is the.
You know, what you just do sowell is that you really elevate
that category of interiors,interior design, can you?
tell us a bit about that project, or is it all onto an embargo?
I can talk about it, I justcan't show you the photos of it.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Basically, it is for an incredible doctor, dr Fatima
Khan.
She is a specialist inmenopause and it might sound
weird that she hired you know ayoung male to design her
menopause clinic, but we have alot of experience working in the
kind of beautifying medicalspaces through a lot of the work
that we've done in cosmetic youknow, injectables and hair

(08:37):
salons and stuff like that and Ireally, when I met with her, we
just really hit it off and Ireally loved her vision.
I grew up in a very matriarchalfamily so I watched a lot of
women in my family go throughmenopause and it was actually
really exciting.
And I remember my partnersaying to me it doesn't sound
like a very exciting project andI was like we're going to make
it exciting.
So it's really more colorfulthan anything I've ever done.

(09:00):
The entire design is based onempowering women and, yeah, it's
a very, very cool space.
It's a little bit like 1970sMilanese influence.
I was really influenced bylipstick the concept of a woman
putting on red lipstick and likehow powerful Lauren's got it on

(09:20):
right now.
But you know how powerful andtransformative that was and that
was a really big part of it.
Looking at people like MonicaBellucci the Italian actress was
a really big One of my favoritepeople, isn't she absolutely
incredible.
I looked at a lot of her kindof red carpet looks and there
was like a poise and an elegancein her later life.
Obviously that she's carriedthrough her whole life really,

(09:41):
but it was a big inspiration, soit's very cool.
I'm very proud of it.
I worked with my gorgeousfriend C Bochnik.
She styled it for thephotography.
Ah yes.
So very excited for that to comeout in the January edition.
So buy a copy support localpress.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
But yeah, I have to say that I did not expect the
topic of menopause to come up inour chat today.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I learned a lot about menopause through the process
of this project.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I just love that because.
I really think that we need toopen up the conversation.
I mean, that's obviously awhole other topic, but you know,
you were just learning a lotand you know, and the fact that
this gorgeous project is goingto be published and it just I
don't know in a small way helpsopen up a conversation about it.
So thank you for being an ally.

(10:29):
I hope so.
That's really cool.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Always, always.
I think what was reallyimportant for my client and for
us as well, was to not make itthis issue that women don't talk
about.
It's becoming a very hot buttonissue.
There's just been a Senateinquiry into menopause and it
affects every woman an issue.
There's just been a senateinquiry into menopause um, it
affects every woman.
That's 50% of the planet, um,and we should be able to talk
about it more.
But also the concept that it'snot a sickness and it shouldn't
be treated like going to ahospital to be repaired.

(10:52):
You know it's.
She has a lot more of aobviously a medical approach,
but it's a lot more mentalhealth focused as well.
So she was honestly such anincredible client, um, and she
really just trusted us to kindof roll with it.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
So it's not like any medical practice you've seen
before.
She must be thrilled as wellshe is.
She loves it, but it's in vogueLike that's yeah, that's
amazing, she's very delightedMostly for her.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
She wants to get the message out there and anything
we can do to do that.
So look her up, dr Fatima Khan.
She's incredible.
Book an appointment.
Um she's, she's absolutelyphenomenal.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh, that's really exciting.
Thank you for sharing that.
So you've got your New Yorkapartment.
You mentioned your book.
You've got a medical center, um, going into Vogue.
But I think you know.
To bring us back to the topictoday about luxury design.
I mean, I feel like yourprojects really really
encapsulate luxury in aunderstated way, but it's really

(11:48):
elevated.
So how do you define luxury?

Speaker 3 (11:52):
This is probably a bit of a long winding answer, so
I apologize in advance.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
No, we've got time.
This is your moment.
Go for it.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Before I was an interior designer, I worked for
three luxury brands Tiffany, co,chanel and Gucci in visual
merchandising and it was reallyan incredible education in what
luxury is.
And I think people think luxuryor they use the term luxury
synonymously with things likeopulent or, you know, decadent

(12:21):
or you know things like that,and I think there's this sort of
connotation that luxury isshiny and luxury is over the top
and expensive, and sometimesthat's true, but I think luxury
means something different toeverybody.
I think the way I approachluxury from an interiorist
perspective is very materialfocused.
It's very story focused.

(12:41):
It's very much about the littlethings that you don't even see
in the images of our work how adrawer closes.
You know the practicality andthe comfort of something that
we've designed.
You know we had a client thatwe did a tea drawer for, that we
built compartments for tea bagsand that for her was a luxury,
a little ritual she could do.

(13:02):
Yeah, and rituals in general.
We love doing bathrooms.
For that reason I'm a big bathtaker.
Um I apologize to the planet inadvance for the hot water that
I've used.
But, um, you know, creating aritual around you know daily,
daily things that we do and Ithink interiors have a big, big
part in playing with that.
But I think what people couldsee in the images, um, yeah, I I

(13:23):
was.
I was born in 1990, so I wasborn in the area of minimalism
and you know.
But I grew up loving, reallyyou know, designers like Kelly
Worsley.
You can see all the booksbehind me.
You know I grew up loving thatmaximalist kind of vibe and I
sort of found this weird tensionpoint between them and we slide
a little bit along the scale,depending on the project.
But, um, I always say my, myperfect ideal house is just a

(13:44):
concrete box.
But, um, I don't really think Iwould actually do that.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So we'll see concrete box with a big old bath in the
middle yes, big stone bath,knowing me but um lots of hot
water, but um, yeah, I think Ithink

Speaker 1 (14:03):
luxury it.
So you go no, no, I was gonnasay um without it then that one
of the key points I think thatcan be overlooked in interiors
is that luxury isn't justactually about how it looks, but
it's about how it feels or howit operates or how it functions
with those soft closed drawersor something feels a certain way

(14:25):
when you touch it, but youcan't necessarily see that in a
visual.
So I feel like luxury kind oflike can be overlooked in that
way sometimes from an interiorperspective.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
It's sort of tangible and intangible, and I think
luxury doesn't exist withoutboth of those things together.
I think about.
You know, the idea of comfortis luxury.
It's actually one of thedefining factors of the word.
Luxury is about comfort and Ithink that gets lost.
I think the word luxury isoverused so often.
I mean it's used in somecontexts where I don't think it

(14:56):
belongs, like luxury vinyl um,not really sure how I feel about
that one, but, um, you know, Ithink it's just this where the
people throw in and it has thisconnotation with expensive or,
you know, opulent, and I don'treally subscribe to that kind of
context of it.
I usually say to clients when Itake a project, how do you want
to feel and that's the luxuryto them.

(15:17):
You know, when you go into likea really incredible hotel and
you just feel good and that isluxury and that you can feel in
your house.
And I feel like a lot of peopledon't.
You know, a lot of the clientsthat we work with are obviously
high net worth individuals, andwe go into their homes and I'm
like this is how you've beenliving, like you could.
You could live so much better,and that's what we're here to
help with and I think comfort.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Comfort is sometimes a hard thing to convey using
imagery and we're so swampedwith imagery and a lot of images
that are just so styled withinan inch of their lives.
But you know the comfort thatyou get from I mean even the
ease of making a beautiful cupof tea you know, that's.
That's sort of a reallybeautiful way to think about

(16:00):
comfort in that way.
But you know, the comfort of achair, of a I mean just all of
the things that you use in your,your everyday life and I think
also function, as you mentioned.
You know, I just love yourexample of the tea because it
ties into so many things aboutluxury that I that's how I see
luxury it's it's um bespoke,it's designed specifically for

(16:23):
your client, and I think thereis that element of that custom
design something crafted by hand, made just for you and just to
make your everyday ritual justenrich that whole experience.
It's just beautiful.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, it does mean something different to everybody
and doing this for so long now,I've seen how people live and
there's a lot of similaritiesbetween countries how
Australians live compared toBritish people, to American
people, to people from China toJapan.
Everyone lives very differentlyin a lot of ways.
But even amongst families, theway we ritualize things, the way
we cook, clean, relax all thosethings are very different.

(16:59):
So it's about kind ofunderstanding those things and
often clients haven't eventhought about it.
So we ask a lot of probingquestions and some of those
things we discover as we go.
I just did a presentationyesterday and we're talking
about the wardrobe and how theywant to be able to put their
clothes away and what they'rereally going to do versus what's
going to look beautiful for aphotograph.
We designed a really beautifulstone plinth to go underneath

(17:21):
the wardrobe for them to puttheir shoes.
And I was like I have prefacedthat I don't believe that you're
all going to merchandise yourshoes every time you take them
off.
So you know, asking some ofthose questions, they evolve as
we kind of go, but I think a lotof it is feeling and how people
live, but also something thatthis is going to sound a bit
hippie, but like what brings youjoy, and for me my house is an

(17:43):
experimentation.
What brings you joy, and for me, my house is an experimentation
?
It's changes all the time.
Interior designers are theworst clients or our own worst
nightmares, but you know, I havea few really beautiful things
that looking at them brings mejoy and makes me feel calm in my
house and, yeah, I think that'sa luxury to me as well.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, I think it is very personal, even just
listening to you talk about thatwardrobe design and that you
know you don't think thatthey'll do that.
But there are people that willliterally go.
I feel good because my shoesare all like laid out
beautifully and I put my thingsaway and it stresses me out not
to have them away.

(18:19):
I have a client at the momentwhere you know the partner is
the exact opposite and they'retrying to live in the same space
, so like they leave all thedoors open and the other one
wants them all neat and tidy.
So I mean, I don't know howthat goes in a world, but
sometimes we're the ones thathave to try and solve that
problem.
But yeah, I think that….

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Interior designers are marriage counsellors all the
time, for sure.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Absolutely.
It's not the first time we'vesaid that.
Is it, lauren?
I think we sort of end uptalking about the fact that we
end up being some sort ofcounsellors.
But you sort of brought upabout the stone, the stone
plinth, and I think materialityreally does play like a really
big part in that, in the waysomething I guess comes together
to make it feel luxurious.

(19:03):
I mean, stone is obviously oneof the kind of more expensive
things, but do you think thatit's about the mix of material?
Absolutely, what is it about?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
that Absolutely.
I think any good designer has aformulaic approach to combining
materials.
I know I certainly do.
I just instinctively know, aswe're progressing, oh, we need
to add a metal, we need to add astone, we need to add a timber,
or you know, I have a way ofapproaching things that I think
is applicable to all of ourprojects and is sort of

(19:34):
signature in that sense, and Ithink every designer does that a
little differently, which isreally beautiful, I think you
know it's so great to seeespecially Australian design
talent, the recipe you know.
if you will to use a simplifiedkind of, you know explanation of
it.
But if the way everyone cooks,the dish is a little different,
but I do think the materialsplay a really big part.
Lauren and I've talked aboutthis at length.

(19:54):
But you know, the sustainableangle of things for us is about
using natural materials that canbe serviced, that can be cared
for, um versus, you know, theindustrial strength, plastic
protected version, um, or versusthe recycled option.
Necessarily a lot of the time,um, but also patina, which is a

(20:15):
really tricky thing tocommunicate to clients,
particularly when they've spenta lot of money.
That it's like when you buy anew car that first scratch on
the rim and you park parallelparked and you're like, oh, um,
what'd you get over the hump ofthat?

Speaker 1 (20:27):
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
My rims look terrible but you know it's, I understand
it.
You know, and I mean even youknow, if I buy a new bag, I
scratch the leather.
Oh my god, like you know, Ispent so much money on this.
I've damaged it.
But it's about like realizingthat the patina and the use is
part of the story and choosingthings that can be repaired and
touched up means it will foreverbe beautiful.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Um, that's sometimes a hard concept for clients to
get, though and I think that'sreally you know, you're showing
empathy and that you'reunderstanding how your clients
feel about that.
Um, so many good things you'vejust mentioned.
Then, um, I just wanted totouch on, um, the stone plinth
of your client's shoes again,because I feel like that is a
beautiful luxury.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's just like the bat's been plinthed, I know Well
.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
It's a beautiful touch of luxury to add into
somebody's everyday ritual and Ifeel like, by adding that stone
plinth detail, that you'reactually more encouraged to take
a bit more care in putting yourthings away, because you're
changing the way that people areliving and you're giving them
that enrichment in theireveryday, which I just think
that is a really beautifuldefinition of luxury too.

(21:32):
I also liked what you weresaying about sustainability, and
unfortunately or fortunately, Idon't really know, but
sometimes sustainable choicescan be a luxury.
Absolutely Because sometimesmaking a sustainable choice.
It might cost more money upfront and it may sort of yeah,
isn't it funny when you say that.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
you almost say it like it's a negative like oh
that's a luxury.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
I think it is a negative.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
That's a luxury, almost like that.
I can't afford like it is yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, I think that's unfortunate in a way.
So I guess what we're saying isthey should be more accessible
right, exactly so.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
they're not a luxury and just more part of the
everyday.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah Well our approach to things and when we,
you know, enter awards and stufflike that for our work.
It's always a question aboutsustainability and I always feel
kind of feeble when I'manswering it because my
pragmatic Building anything isnot good for the environment.
Consumption is bad, just ingeneral.
Things that are sustainablefrom a consumption perspective
are often really terrible froman emissions perspective.

(22:30):
So it's robbing Peter to payPaul all of the time.
So for me, the best thing I cando is design something that
doesn't feel trend focused,something that can be, you know,
grow with the family or onlywould require a slight update
going forward.
The concept of timelessness isreally important to us.
We do a lot of, I would say,you know a lot of white walls,
and it's not necessarily myfavourite thing to do, but, you

(22:53):
know, working with white stoneand things that I guess would be
more palatable to the averageperson, because we don't want
the family to have to rip it allout when they want to go and
sell it you know, especially ifit's a five-year house project
rather than a forever house.
Um, so I think our perspectiveis going well.
How can we design somethingthat doesn't need to be ripped
out, something that can be caredfor, something that uses local

(23:15):
suppliers where we can, and justtry to be mindful, and I think
that makes more of an impact.
Um, and a lot of our clientsare more concerned with
sustainability.
It is becoming becoming more.
I mean, I don't think anyonewould look at our work and think
we're necessarily the mostsustainable design practice out
there, but you know, I think wedo really think about it and try
to do something pragmaticrather than something that
sounds good to people and tojust sort of make it as part of

(23:37):
the process.
It's not kind of greenwashCorrect and even when we're
doing the design, how do wemaximize?

Speaker 1 (23:56):
the material If we're buying a slab.
This is how this plinth cameabout we were buying some stone
for the bedhead and I'm like,well, we're going to have
leftover, like you know, half aslab.
Like you know, what are wegoing to do with that?
Get as much out of it as youcan.
But there's usually some leftthat we don't even think about
half the time.
So it's great to be able tofully utilize that.
Um, I'm just going to touch onone thing cause I have to cause
of the color thing.
Color aspect, um is, um, Itotally hear what you're saying

(24:18):
about, I guess, it being morepalatable.
And, yes, if the house is goingto be turned over and sold
within a certain amount of time,that has to be taken into
consideration.
But I would say that, withoutbeing trend focused, I think if
the client and the people thatlive in the home, I guess, are
open to color because they loveit and not because, oh, this is

(24:42):
really cool at the moment, thenI think that also can have the
same longevity as somethingthat's quite neutral.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
So I'll throw that in there.
No, I mean, this is the thingyou know, brie.
We've talked about this.
I love colour, I really love it.
But, I don't always haveclients who are willing to take
the risk on things, and I try sohard.
I've even offered to repaint aclient's powder room if they
didn't like it at the end.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
You in overalls.
I want to say that.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
I wanted to paint their entire powder room in this
air forcey kind of blue color.
I think it's called DuluxGrumman Bath.
I think it was the same colorfrom memory and I loved it and I
was like it's a kid's powderroom upstairs.
You know, I didn't want it tofeel super sleek and sexy.
I was like it needs to feellike cool and fun and for them
to grow with.
And the client, she was sort ofopen to it.
In the end she was like I justcan't, I need to do it white.
We're going to sell the house,you know, in five years and I

(25:29):
was like I will come and paintit for you when you're ready to
sell the house, like I promiseyou.
It was called Carmen Miranda.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
I know the Carmen Miranda that's an intense
bedroom.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
I didn't sleep very well, I can tell you that, but
you know it was invigorating.
I think color is amazing.
I like to.
If I'm going to do color, let'sgo all in.
You probably know my oceancosmetics project.
It looks like Ariel'sunderwater cave.
It's all completely.
You know the sky blue color, soI love to like.

(26:04):
I'm not about a pop, I'm likelet's go all in or we'll be
restrained, so, um, but no, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
I think color is a is a very luxurious kind of thing,
um, and I think people couldcould be more adventurous with
it, because it's very easy topaint, you can pay, anyone can
paint and it's cheap, and we'lllook for a paint sponsor for
this podcast now, um, yeah, no,I think color can be luxurious
and I think it's how you use it,and you mentioned, um, your,

(26:29):
your project, what's it called?
Ocean?
ocean cosmetics yeah, which youdo use that.
You know beautiful blue, but Ithink tonal palettes lend
themselves to feeling more likea luxury space than maybe doing
like pops of colour against awhite background.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, I mean yes and no.
I mean I take a lot of cuesfrom fashion and I think that
changes a lot.
I mean, if you look at Tom Fordfor Gucci versus, you know,
frida Janini for Gucci, verycompletely different concepts, a
completely different way ofapproaching colour.
They could both feel veryluxurious and expensive and
beautiful, and I think the fearfor people is very, completely
different concepts, a completelydifferent way of approaching
color.
Um, yeah, they could both feelvery luxurious and expensive and
beautiful, and I think the fearfor people is they'll get bored

(27:07):
.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
But if you really love a color I don't I don't
think you really get bored yeah,I agree, I agree and I can, and
um, I think you get more boredwhen you don't have color I
think, I think a plain white.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Everything can be a little snoozy from time to time.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
But you know, I feel like um, the other thing with
luxury we've talked about sortof material and I guess what
kind of goes hand in hand withthat is that tactility as well.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Like we've talked about the way things feel, but
and sometimes you can sort ofsee tactility, so that texture
and kind of amping that up canactually really add to that sort
of I've spoken to Ruby Shieldsa lot about this because
obviously she loves color justas much as you, and we talk, we
talk about a lot, but for me,I've always felt more
comfortable with tactility.
I don't know what that's about,but I've always felt combining

(27:53):
materials to be a very luxuriousexperience because you can
touch it and interior should beexperienced with all of your
senses.
So you know I think they're allimportant.
But visual texture and how thatlooks.
You know a really really thick,chunky, you know Italian boucle
against really sleek, polishedstainless steel, like there's a
really beautiful way you cankind of play with texture like

(28:14):
that, and I think that's a bigfocus in what we do is playing
with the tactility of things.
I always say to clients, if youdon't want to walk into your
kitchen and just run your handacross it and lay down on the
stone that I failed, that's cute, you know, and that's why I've
always been really averse tosort of products pretending to
be other products.
Like I don't really like tilesthat look like wood or, you know
, fake stone or anything likethat.

(28:35):
The beautiful natural part ofit and how it feels when you
touch it is a big part of makingsomething feel luxurious.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
So right, I also thought another point, which I
feel like you do convey that inyour projects, is something
that's unique, something that'skind of exclusive, like that
feels quite luxurious as well.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
And I noticed that you use Lost Profile a bit.
I do.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
We almost exclusively use Australian lighting brands,
not necessarily out of a devoutsense of patriotism but, I,
just think Australian lightingis some of the absolute best in
the world.
There's a handcraftedness,especially with Lost Profile.
I discovered Ollie and hisbrand at the design show five or
six years ago and I don't thinkwe've had a project since that.

(29:22):
We haven't done a piece of his.
And nothing is off the shelf,it's always, I feel, like I'm a
difficult client because I'malways like hey can we make this
bit like double the size, orone of his.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
He probably loves that.
I feel like that's where heexcels, isn't it?
I think?

Speaker 3 (29:37):
So, yeah, it's a.
It's a bit of a um, aninteresting kind of arrangement,
but the my apartment we'reworking on in Sydney is a double
height void and I want tocreate this thing like a six and
a half meter long drop in thiskind of alcove and it's not
standard, but it means that theclient's like the only ones that
are going to have it.
So I think there's a luxury andexclusiveness.

(29:58):
In that I mean think about aBirkin and a Kelly.
Everybody wants one becausethey can't have one.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
True and also lighting too.
Sorry go, Lauren.
I'll come back to that.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Oh no, you go, because I was just going to talk
about another point that I Iwas just thinking about how.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I mean we're talking about, obviously, lighting in
terms of how it looks from anaesthetic point of view, but
lighting is another aspect ofluxury in terms of you know
having a room full of downlights doesn't feel very luxury
I call it homophobic lighting.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
It's homophobic lighting.
I'm sorry.
It's fair.
Nobody looks good under directlighting.
I can tell you that um, you'rehilarious I almost never use
them.
Um, I was sitting on the sofayesterday and my partner was
cooking and he turned it on andI was just like, oh, like no,
off off.
I have a very carefully curatedlayer of lighting.

(30:50):
Um, and like you know, sometimesI go to people's homes and they
just have all the down and,like you know, those houses and
they've got like 50 down lightsin each room and I'm like I
don't most modern houses, I feellike do i's kind of become a
real standard thing.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Are you performing?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
micro-surgery on me, Like why does it need to be so
angry?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Micro-surgery.
But lighting, to me, is thejewellery of the project.
I think you know we play a lotwith budget.
A lot of our work looks a lotmore expensive than it is
because we've been clever with,you know, creating ideas and
concepts that feel luxurious,that didn't cost a lot, but that
didn't cost a lot.
But lighting is somewhere Ijust have never cheaped out on.
I don't think it's the mostobvious thing that you've done
on the budget if the lighting'snot kind of good and you can

(31:27):
also take lights with you whenyou sell the house.
That's always what the bribe Iuse to clients to get a piece of
the loan.
Oh okay, yep, but you knowAustralia in particular has so
many incredible lighting makersand we pretty much mostly use at
least now work withhand-finished materials, so aged

(31:47):
brass, aged bronze, you know,hand-finished, stainless, that
kind of thing.
We're not really using a lot ofmachine kind of finished or
like blonde brass.
We don't really kind of workwith that a lot these days.
But you know it's that jewelryand when you walk around the
space you know like I have aChristopher Boots light that I
customized from his standardPrometheus collection and every
time I have a guest over that isthe one piece that people are
like wow, this is amazing and itis a little jewel in my house,

(32:08):
so that is a big part of it forme.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
So we've got yeah.
Lost Studio Christopher Boots,volker Haag.
Articolo Rukumba.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
We do have good lighting, don't we?
We have got so many.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
It's called the Lighting Mafia, apparently.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Really.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
That's hilarious.
There's Henry Wilson.
There's Ross Garden.
Like you know, australia hassome of the best lighting.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I love.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Ross as well, I've been to yeah, sorry, go.
Well, I was going to say I meanNew Zealand as well.
Snelling Studios.
Yes absolutely, and oh, there'sanother one as well Nightworks.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Nightworks.
Yeah, that's what I was goingto say.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
I think we could, you know, bring them into, like
they're practically Australianright.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Sorry, new, zealanders, we all just claim
yeah, we claim New Zealanders asAustralians all the time don't
we?

Speaker 2 (32:53):
They punch above their weight.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
I mean, when I first started studying design, you
know, I feel like the italianrenaissance, if you will, was in
.
Everyone wanted minotti and allthese like casino and all these
italian brands and um, you know,I just don't feel like lighting
has ever really tickled meuntil I looked at australian
lighting um, apparatus, studioexcluded.
Obviously, they do amazing work.
Um, allied maker as well, outof new york, also amazing, but
um, yeah, effectively, like Ithink australian lighting is
incredible, I'm also seeingamazing lights being made from

(33:25):
like small, up-and-coming people, objects for thought, one of my
new favorite lighting brands,such nice guys, um, and they've
made an office for us for ourlight, for our studio and um two
of them for our project in newyork and just like people with
so much creativity and so muchraw artisan feel very, very cool
.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
It's really beautiful and I suppose almost to counter
what you were saying a littlebit about the light is something
that you really feel like youdon't want to compromise so much
on the budget, because I alsothink that sometimes what you
want to achieve is the glow, isthe effect that you get, and I
think that sometimes in yourhome you achieve is the glow, is
the effect that you get, and Ithink that sometimes in your
home, you can really go to ikea,go to your homeware store on

(34:09):
down your high street and pickup something that was is going
to give you that glow effect.
Like don't feel like on one dayI'm going to get that.
Like, please turn off your downlights and just buy whatever
lamp you can afford today 100%would agree.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
I think we're all absolutely on board with that.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yes, I think I mean such a difference if we
inherently come from a firecelebrating species, we're all
about being around a campfire,you know, from there it was
candles.
We are programmed to enjoy asofter glow.
Um, and we also have likedevices and screens and like
everything is just like so inyour face, like, just turn the

(34:50):
dimmer on, turn it down like lowlevel.
Very, you'll look a lot moreattractive to your partner, I
promise.
Um, there's a restaurant backin perth that I used to take
people on the first date tocalled balthazar, because it was
so dark, but there was abeautiful little beam of light
on the table and everyone lookedgood.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
So, um, everyone, that's better than low lighting
oh, you've got to look good on adate.
Oh my god, that's the worst ifyou go to a restaurant, the
lighting's bad, like I went toone with cold blue fluorescent
lighting.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
you know, I got up and I was like I'm sorry to be
this, this person.
This is what I do for a job.
You need to change out thebulbs because it makes the food
look pallid.
I'm sorry, yes that's true.
I was like here's some freeadvice.
I normally charge a lot ofmoney for that.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I can just imagine going on a date and sitting
opposite to somebody that's, youknow, looking really attractive
, and you're like, oh, they arefantastic.
Then you go next door to your7-Eleven and you're like, oh, my
God.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
That would be me.
I feel like I was joking withmy kids.
How, you know, getting olderand trying to like just look a
bit nicer in lighting and withthe whole down lights and
lighting from above, it, justeverything.
It's like the bags under theeyes are five times as big.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Not kidding, not kidding.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
And I was joking saying that I need to just like
hook up a ring light that justfollows me around well, just
talk to people through that,that would be normal.
Go for a break oh look, and heis young.
God, it's with good lighting.
I love it.
Um, all right.
So I think the other aspect isum with luxury.
I think we could say that wewent through a period of

(36:23):
thinking very minimal.
Decluttered spaces were quiteluxurious and even all white you
know, how I find that to bereally cold.
But even then I guess there wasa period where that was sort of
also considered to be a luxury,whereas now I feel like you know
, talking about tactility, oftenit's the layers and the things

(36:45):
that get put into the room, kindof after all of the finishes
and fixtures are in, thatactually elevate it.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
I think lockdown had a really profound impact on that
.
Actually, almost everyone'shome I go to my own included, I
would say is probably visuallyovercluttered, but like that's
just how people live, if thatmakes sense.
So I think the idea of like itbeing minimal was like oh look,
you know a Marie Kondo.
And like this, like oh, howelevated my life must be if I
don't have a lot of junk.
I don't think there's a truthin an element to that.

(37:14):
I think different people preferto live in different ways.
Look at architects like Tadaando, like you know, basically
creating concrete boxes forkanye west to buy and ruin.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
But um you know like.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
If some people like to live that way, we, I would
say I'm very influenced bybelgian and sort of french
designers who do take a morerestrained approach to that, and
space and light, and you know,the significance of each piece
has increases the less stuff youhave, um, so I think there's an
element to that in terms ofluxury, but I think really it's
a very personal taste.
I mean, you know, I rememberwatching this tv show while I

(37:47):
was studying million dollardecorators, with katherine
island and mary mcdonald and soon, and I remember watching um
katherine island's interiorsgoing.
I could never live in one ofthese, but I respect the design
and I appreciate the layeringand how it's put together and I
think think that's the beauty ofyou know, especially in
Australia, we have so manydifferent designers who do
completely different things, soyou can shop around, you'll find

(38:09):
what you like and we allapproach things a little
differently, but I don't know.
I think white feels safe.
I actually call it kind of theIKEA complex that Australia
seems to have.
You know, Scandinavianfurniture is bright and
interiors are light and brightbecause it's so dark.
The IKEA complex that Australiaseems to have.
You know, scandinavianfurniture is bright and
interiors are light and brightbecause it's so dark through.
You know the big parts of theyear.

(38:29):
Whereas Australia I'm from Perth, very sunny place it never
really made sense to me thissort of bright, white light, oak
, timber, everything.
But you know, it's what peoplefeel comfortable with, it's
what's within people'svocabulary.
And I always say to clientslike what you know, it's what
people feel comfortable with,it's what's within people's
vocabulary.
And I always say to clientslike what you know about design
is like looking through apinhole and what I know is like
looking through the Hubble Space.

(38:49):
Telescope.
So I mean, there might be otherthings that you've never seen
that you would love even morethan what you have seen.
Um, that's a great analogy,yeah um, but yeah, like just
trying to take clients on a bitof a journey and show them
things, and I would say almostevery single project we've ever
done, the client has said thisis not what I thought I wanted,
but it's actually exactly what Iwanted.
Um, and I was like, well, I'vedone my job.
Then, like, I've I've taken youon a journey and I've shown you

(39:12):
pieces of furniture that you'venever even thought existed,
because really, especiallynowadays with marketing and
advertising and social media,people are seeing the same king
living.
So far, yes, you know, over andover and over again, and same
with ikea.
It's like this indoctrination,and all you see is what you're
comfortable with.
So that's what you want, that'swhat you think you like.
Um, and I've been fortunateafter a lot of traveling, I'm

(39:34):
very passionate aboutarchitecture and interiors in
different parts of the world, um, throughout different parts of
history as well, and we've allyou know.
There's just so much to see anddo.
There's beautiful things tohave.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
That's so true.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
That's for sure.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think another point about luxury as well is sort of
playing on that uniqueness butbringing in vintage pieces
because you do feel like you'vefound this treasure and you
could be like searching for twoyears for something, and when
you finally find it you mightnot have cost a fortune, but for

(40:09):
you it's part of that journeyof sourcing it and finding it,
and I feel like that's a niceway of looking at luxury as well
.
Do you use vintage that much,Nicholas?

Speaker 3 (40:18):
I love vintage, and we don't get to use it anywhere
near as much as I would like.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, it is hard to put into projects, I find
sometimes.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Australia is really tricky, because the price point
for vintage is usually reallyhigh because we don't have what
I call heirloom culture.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
There's not much here , yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
You didn't get left your grandma's armoire.
You know what I mean.
Like australia is so young as ayou know a country you don't
have.
You know the heirloom.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
We don't have that mentality.
I mean, even if you had thatheirloom, you were like I don't
like it.
It's going on the.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
It's going on the street period, I reckon in the
in the 90s and early 2000s,where everyone just kind of
turned their nose up on thingslike that were handed down even
if they were of value and theyeither, yeah, got sort of thrown
out or given away and there isjust less here.

(41:07):
Obviously you know any vintageperson here.
Selling is over in Europe goingto all the markets and
collecting all the stuff andthen shipping it, and so that's
what you're paying for, right?
It's probably even the shippingitself.
That cost would be huge.
And then if it's lighting, ithas to be rewired and checked,
and all of that sort of stuff,but I love vintage too, and I

(41:31):
think that you hit on a reallygood point, lauren, that I was
thinking about Nicholas when yousaid, like about appreciating.
You know that more clutteredabout Nicholas when you said,
like about appreciating, youknow that, more cluttered look,
let's call it, you know, in thesort of English way I think,
yeah, yes, that's quite layered,but I think what it is, you

(41:53):
know, to try and pinpoint whythat still could be a luxury
space.
I think it's the considerationthat's given to each piece, as
you said, that goes into thespace.
So it's the time taken to findthat amazing vintage piece that
you've been looking for for twoyears, or it's not necessarily
always paying someone, but whatyou do, or what we do, is think
about that and really put somuch thought into every single

(42:16):
element of the space and reallyput so much thought into every
single element of the space.
But you can achieve that justas much by doing the same thing
over a period of time and notwith, you know, huge budget.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
We work on a lot of you know, new builds or when
people are renovating, they'vesaved up or they've, you know,
got finance.
They want to do a big thing, sothey want to do everything at
once and it's kind of hard tomake that work because it does
have a very moment of time feelum, you know, obviously, when we
work with clients on, you know,the whole house, it's a
multi-year project for us.

(42:44):
It's not, you know, a fivemonth, six month kind of thing.
But you know, even when itcomes down to sort of the bits
and pieces, I'm like you willcollect these things as you go
and allowing kind of space forthat.
And I always said in my classbut you can always call me when
you're in Morocco and you findsome weird leather like.
Ottoman that you're like, hey,do you think we could get this?
I might say, no, I might say,buy me one as well.

(43:07):
You know, and I'm also alwayson the lookout for things, you
know, particularly for art andaccessories.
I have clients that you know.
I finished the project three orfour years ago.
I, you know I finished theproject three or four years ago.
I'm like, hey, by the way, Ijust saw this, you should really
should buy this, like thiswould be really great for your
house.
So you know, for me, I'm neverreally done.
I'm really really done with thejob.
But you know, you have tocollect things over time and I
think my apartment is a reallygreat example of that.

(43:28):
Where it's, it's a collectionof nearly 10 years of things and
you know, your taste waxes andwanes, but you know, I think
when you buy something that youreally love, it's kind of
forever.
I tend to be very mindful on apurchase.
I'm not an impulsor unless itcomes to a handbag, but you know
, when it comes to furniture, Ireally like to think about it a
lot and you know, I think whenyou buy things that you love,

(43:50):
they will find a home.
Conversely, I like to say thatinterior is all about editing.
I talk to clients a lot aboutsometimes.
You know the thing that theywould.
It was that you know when we'relooking at sofas, for example,
the number one that they lovemakes absolutely no context like
makes.
It has no sense of context ofwhat we're doing.
So maybe it's the second bestchoice, that is the best fit for

(44:10):
a sense of harmony and cohesiveinterior.
But that's really just like astyle and a recipe sort of thing
.
Um, for me, from from aluxurious perspective, the
concept of harmony is soimportant.
I think a lot about Versaillesand you know the concept of
enfilade, which is a bit of afancy architecture term, but
it's the relationship betweenspaces as you move between them.
Think about the Hall of Mirrorsas a really great example, what

(44:31):
you can kind of see through athreshold into the next space,
and we think about that all thetime.
And some designers do a kind ofshock value thing where, like,
you'll move from the bathroom tothe bedroom and it's like
completely different colorpalette, completely different
story, and I do love that, Ithink that's fantastic.
But I also, you know, I thinkfor me, harmony and peace and
living on a day-to-day basis isthe relationship between the

(44:53):
spaces having a connection, andthat doesn't mean using the same
things in every room, but justthinking about how they kind of
connect.
And yeah, I think, when youknow, when it comes to just like
a cluttered life, I mean, ifthat's what you like and that's
what makes you feel amazing,then, like you should, a hundred
percent, you should have that.
You should find a designer thatdoes that for you.
I'm probably not that person,but you know you should hire
someone, because there's noright or wrong.

(45:14):
I'm not the arbiter of what isluxury, what is not, but
everyone lives very differently,everyone has different values
and people dress differently andfeel differently about life.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
So finding out what luxury means to you, I suppose I
love that and I think, yeah,finding out what luxury means to
you and then implementing it.
Just do it, go for it, try it.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
I would say hire an interior designer, we can help
you find out.
Yes, that's very true.
We're here for you.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I think harmony is actually one of the best words
for luxury.
I think if something is reallyjarring in a space, it would
change it from it being luxuryto maybe more I don't know.
It's more making a statement ormaking people feel something
that's a little bit ooh not Forme.
I guess luxury is more aboutthat.
As we said, comfort.

(46:01):
So you feel comfortable in aspace, you're not going to feel
that if something's reallyjarring.
So Harmony is probably I wouldput that kind of almost pretty
high on the list for a feel ofluxury.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
There's an amazing scene from Will and Grace.
I grew up watching that.
I'm pretty sure Grace Adler iswhy I became an intuitive
designer, but Grace.
I grew up watching that.
I'm pretty sure Grace Adler iswhy I became an intuitive
designer.
But there's this one episodewhere Grace moves into an
apartment and she's got boxesand stuff everywhere and she's
like, do you think if I movethis vase on the vessel from
here to here it would throw offthe whole room?
And I think about that all thetime because I'm that person.
I sit at home, even in my ownhouse.
I'm like if I swapped wherethat glass dish is on the coffee

(46:33):
table to the other book, wouldthat, would that look better,
would that?

Speaker 1 (46:36):
work for everything.
I do it to 100, but you know itdoes sometimes do that right
absolutely can do.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
But I think what also comes down to, like you know,
when people will use the wordclutter, they and I think
sometimes it comes across in anegative way but I'm like you
don't like those interiors thatyou see are so carefully thought
of it's, it's like it's a yeah,it's an assemblage, um, it's
not just I didn't buy a lot ofcrap and put it in.
You know, everything was reallyconsidered and um, I think

(47:05):
that's I I think would be thehardest thing for someone who's
not trained in interiors to do.
And even those of us who aretrained in interiors and working
all the time um the assemblageof the things and the editing is
really um, the expertise I andknowing what goes with what.
A lot of our clients areprofessional.
They work in medicine and lawand finance and real estate and
all those kinds of things but itdoesn't really require a lot of

(47:25):
creativity and sometimes Ithink it can be difficult if
you're not creatively minded tounderstand that what you're
paying for when you're workingwith interiors or paying for
when are you buying a reallyexpensive piece, is sure it
couch or you know you're payingfor a design or whatever, but
it's the decades of experienceto create that.
That that's what you're payingfor.
It's like that um connotationthat you pay the plumber.

(47:47):
You pay the plumber 100 bucksfor 10 minutes work because it
only took him 10 minutes, um,because of his experience in his
life.
So, um, I guess it's the samewith interiors.
That context, definitely, Ifeel, I feel like that's one of
your mantras, Lauren.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Well, yeah, I mean charging for your time.
That's why you know my work inthe Design Society.
We talk about, you know, tryingto figure out the value that
you bring.
Your value, your unique valuethat you bring to your clients
is what they want to pay for.
They don't really want to payfor your time.
It's that end result or thatexperience along the way, but
that's a conversation foranother day.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Well, I think, also when you were talking about
vintage before, I think we lovevintage.
We are inspired by vintagepieces.
We create a lot of our ownpieces that are inspired by
vintage a lot of the time, notnecessarily.
It might be scale, it might becost, it might be material
opportunities, um, that we wantto kind of tweak things.
I'm also not I'm not reallygreat at just off the shelf.

(48:43):
I always want to changesomething.
Um, I'm that rude person in arestaurant who wants something
different about the dish.
I'm that person, um, but I thinkyou know it's when you're
hiring a designer or workingwith someone creative.
It connects back to theirrepertoire, their rolodex, if we
still have those, um, theknowledge we have.
Like, we use a lot of piecesfrom up and coming people who

(49:06):
you know I've just spent timeresearching, seen at shows or
have come across um, furnishedforever.
I have one of my favoritepieces is their waffle chair.
I saw it, I think, on aninstagram post really obscure
thing and I had it up in the pinboard of the office and I have
one in my house.
We just put two in a commercialproject and it was the client's
absolute favorite piece andit's just not something that you

(49:28):
can go into a big departmentstore and buy.
You know it's knowing where toget those little weird little
things.
There was a girl jess humpston,I think her name was from craft
victoria.
This year she'd had these littlewooden tables with a travertine
block in it and I was like thisis the coolest thing I've ever
seen.
I'm absolutely, absolutelyobsessed.
The tables aren't superexpensive.
It doesn't mean I have to paynine thousand dollars for a side

(49:50):
table.
To come from italy, you know, Ican buy something locally made
by some small creative person.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Was she using offcuts ?
I think so.
I think so.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
There were little like kind of lattice-y wooden
things, which is so cool, so, socool, and you know I call those
pieces the future heirloom andthat's the kind of thing that
you will hold on to and we willhopefully restart the cycle that
your grandchildren will inheritfrom you and you will love and
will kind of have a long life.
So I think that, and it's alsothe character in the story, when

(50:22):
people come over and they'relike, wow, I love this little
side table, and you go, it'smade by someone locally.
This was her vision.
You know, it means that yourinterior has a soul and kind of
a personality that it can speakto.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I couldn't agree more , and I think actually that's a
really good point in terms ofdefining luxury.
I think if you know the name ofthe person that's created,
that's crafted, that's forged,that's handmade, that piece that
you own, that is amazing tohave that level of connectedness

(50:55):
to the maker.
You know whether it's a diningtable that you've met, the
person, the human hands thathave made it Like.
That is the definition ofluxury at least for me, you know
, to know the designer.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
It's a big part of it for us as well, yeah, you know,
even to take clients.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
I took one of my clients to Daniel Barbera's
workshop.
She loved it.
We were talking about it theother day and we went months ago
.
Just the experience of being inhis workshop, meeting Daniel
he's fantastic and we had such agreat meeting there, you know
to be able to have those piecesin your home that tell that

(51:33):
story back to what you're saying, that is just a beautiful
luxury to have I think you'reright, lauren.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
What it comes down to is like there's no luxury from
ikea because it's amass-produced, you don't really
know anything about it.
It didn't come into your housewith soul and didn't come into
your house with personality orquality, and I think that's kind
of where people struggle.
But you know, I I think we hadthe exact same experience with
lost profileile.
We did a house, we had a lot oflighting, everything was custom
and I took the clients down tomeet Oliver.

(52:01):
They got to see their pieces inthe workshop and it was like an
experience they would neverforget and they would tell
everyone that came through thehouse and I just think that is
really, really special.
That is a luxury.
And I think when you know, Istarted kind of calling this
term zoom shame during covidbecause I was on a lot of zoom
calls with people and I was like, girl, you gotta tidy that up,
like what is that?

(52:22):
Um, and you know I have a lotof I'm very house proud.
If someone's coming to my house, it is immaculately cleaned,
everything is perfectly styled,there is a candle, like I'm.
I'm that way, but you know, tofeel proud of your house and
have people come around and beexcited about the house that you
live in.
That to me is a luxury, um, andthat you know.
I guess when you think aboutluxury from a more plastic kind

(52:44):
of perspective, you know,working with those fashion
brands, when I sort of began myyou know professional career as
an adult, half the people onhalf most of the people came in.
They wanted to buy somethingthat had the logo on it and to
them that was the luxury thatsomeone else knew that they'd
spent money and I think, to behonest, before I started working
in that space, I probably felta bit like that too.
Oh, I want to have a Gucci bag,or I want to have the look I

(53:06):
want people to know I spentmoney.
What I realized the longer Iworked there was the thing that
I loved, the thing that wasbeautiful and crafted and like
there was 10 of these made oryou know, like the stitching on
this was done by hand orwhatever.
That was the luxury and theother branded products supported
the more you know high-endstuff.
But it comes back to thingslike you know, couture and

(53:27):
fashion.
The perfume supports thebusiness of the couture that
doesn't make any money but iscrafting beauty, and I think
interiors can sometimes be likethat too.
I think there's been a tendencyover the last maybe 10 or 15
years with magazines to promoteprojects that are heavily
featuring expensive furniturebrands like Casina or.

(53:48):
Petronio Frau or you know, artecand all these really high-end
brands, edra, that kind of stuffand people go, oh, what a
beautiful interior.
They spend a lot of money andsure.
Sure, those things areincredible and beautiful.
We love using them when we canput them into a project, but
that doesn't define luxury, forme at least.
Um, you know they have theirplace, but I don't think that's

(54:09):
a marker of luxury.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
I think that's the illusion of it, if that makes
sense I agree I like that, theillusion of luxury, yeah and
it's because it could just beshowpiece right.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Or status thing, and it's all.
The things we've talked aboutare much more emotive, to do
with what actually makes luxury.
Whereas that is just like youknow.
You could easily fill a spaceeven if you just borrowed all
the furniture with all the veryexpensive stuff.
But that doesn't it kind of.
It's the illusion, it's justthe aesthetic.
It's not actually how itfunctions and how you live and

(54:42):
and maybe you're not evenattached or care about that.
So it's not real right.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Yeah, it's not real.
There's so much spoken mirrors.
I was actually with a client ina showroom.
We were looking at lightingsome beautiful lighting for the
kitchen, dining and, and thelady in the showroom she said,
oh, you know, you want to.
Oh, the client said, oh, wecould put that in our master en
suite and the lady actually said, oh, you maybe want to put that
in your powder room becausethen people will see it and

(55:07):
she's like the client's like,but I'll see it.
You know, it's not all aboutshowing off to your guests or
whatever.
It's.
That sort of feels like luxuryto me.
It's just for me to just enjoyand that's okay.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
One of my favorite phrases of all time is money
shouts and wealth whispers, andI think that's where it comes
into luxury, where it's like youcan spend an awful lot of money
and it not look like you spendan awful lot of money and that's
not necessarily a bad thing.
It sounds bad, but if you'vebought a handful of really
incredible pieces and you knowthey all have this incredible

(55:40):
story and you love them and theybring you joy, then that was a
good investment if you bought it.
So the people think you spentmoney.
That's just keeping up with thejoneses.
To me, um, and I don't reallythink it says a lot about the
people who live there.
Um, I think australians are notparticularly good at this,
because we have a differentattachment to our homes because
of the commodification.
Is that a word?
Um?

(56:00):
yeah of you just made it one,but we know exactly what you're
talking about you're right, theresale, and I feel like half the
time the third client when Ihave a couple is the resale
client and you know we'rethinking about.
oh well, I don't want to buythis because you know, and I'm
like we've lived in this housefor 10 years, that's 10 years of
you looking at this lightfixture and going, wow, how

(56:21):
happy does this make me?
And I think Australiansnecessarily aren't programmed as
people in the United States,the United Kingdom, for example,
to use comparative countrieswhere they're a little bit more
focused on like, wow, this isreally beautiful.
On the flip side, my absoluteindulgence and my porn is
selling Sunset and MillionDollar Listing and all those
shows, because I love looking atthese $40, $50, $60 million

(56:43):
houses and I'm like I want tovomit all over the floor.
This is disgusting.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
The French one's the best.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
I haven't started that one, but it's on the list.
It's the best.
They're my family.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I love the family, the Kretz or whatever family.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
I haven't seen the French one, I can't get enough
to check that out, but I thinkyou know.
Yes, there you go.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Well, I was just going to bring it back to your
sort of one of the first thingsyou said.
You know, it's not about thestatus, the bling, and look at
me, it's the draw for the tea,it's that thing for yourself
that doesn't shout in aphotograph but it gives you that
beautiful, enriched, you know,ritual every day in life and I

(57:25):
think that's to me you soundlike, yeah, that really you've
captured luxury.
I think that's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Well, you know, it's like if you close the door in a
luxury car, that kind of likethick, clunky click that it
makes versus the Toyota Camrythat you get picked up in your
Uber.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
You know what I mean like there's, there's, it's the
intangible luxury, although Ihave to say sometimes I feel
like, if you're defining luxury,um, there's a Rolls Royce which
is a very expensive car.
It's a status symbol.
Um, is that luxury?
Or is your toyota luxurybecause your toyota is going to

(57:59):
be like the most reliable carand it's going to do all of the
things for you, like it comesback to that function as well?
Maybe a rolls royce with allthose maybe silly bells and
whistles that you don't reallyneed?
It's?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Yes, and no, I think it depends on who you are and
where you are in your life.
I mean, I think there's atendency with social media now
to like you see all these youngwomen carrying Birkins around
Like that was for a very longtime the bag when you've made it
.
Remember Samantha Jones fromthe Sex and the City episode.
She's like I've made it, I canbuy it now, and I think we all.
But then she had to wait for itand she didn't want to exactly.

(58:35):
But, um, you know, we all, weall want to jump to the rolls
royce, but there's a lot oflayers in between that and
different levels of luxury.
I remember when I bought myfirst Ford ps start was black
with a deep burgundy interior,thought it was the coolest thing
ever.
Um, and was it the mostluxurious car on the road?
No, but I was like, wow, thisis so cool and it's new and has
all these cool gadgets, and thatwas luxury to me.

(58:55):
And I think that's how you cankind of look at it Like you
don't.
You know, there's not thisgreat divide between the Turok
$25 million mansion and yourone-bedroom apartment.
You can still live luxuriouslyand live in luxury in your own
space.
You know, there's not someinvisible wall that prevents you
from accessing it, and it'sjust about being thoughtful.

(59:16):
It's about being you know,investing in yourself and your
pieces.
It's about you know collectingand it's about hiring a designer
who can help you get there,because it's pretty much all on
your own.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Well, my ultimate definition of luxury is to take
a daytime nap.
I haven't got there yet.
I love a nap.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
You know what I feel guilty when.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I have a nap.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
I feel bad.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Oh, one day I'm not very good at doing the napping
either.
If I could, I feel like we needto probably wrap it up, even
though we could, I reckon,continue the conversation
Probably.
I feel like we've touched onsome really great points in
terms of what I think it'll makepeople really think about what
luxury is too.
I hope so, compared to what youmaybe started started thinking

(59:58):
of it as and oh, I think it's avery plasticky word, you know, I
think, even like I'm sure inthe clickbait of the head.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
You know the, the episode, you know people who
luxury and um, in some ways Ioccasionally feel a little bit,
um, not shamed, a littleembarrassed.
I consider my work luxuriousand I think that's a signature
of what we do, because I thinkpeople are like oh, it must be
glitzy, you know, and I'm like,well, if that's, if that's what
you want, then that's a bit of abad rap, doesn't?

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
it like even the word .
I don't mind the word luxury,but luxurious sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I don't like luck, and I don't know why I don't
like luck.
It's true words.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Don't like that words for it, because there's not a
lot yeah, I think it wasoverused.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
I like indulgent as a bit of a marketing thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Indulgence is good.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I also like obnoxious .
That's one of my favoriteswhere I'm like how obnoxious
that I spent this much money onthis beautiful thing that I
can't afford, but it makes me sohappy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
I love that one as well.
It's so funny.
Okay, so that's a new podcast.
Podcast topic obnoxiousinteriors.
I like it.
We'll work that one out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
There's quite a few.
I'm sure I can pull for that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Thank you so much, Nicholas.
What a fun chat.
Thank you so much for having me.
This was great.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I hope it really opened some people's minds to
thinking about luxury.
I could talk about it until I'mblue in the face, so thank you
for indulging me for an hour.