Ruby Shields on Pursuing Passion and Redefining Success in Interior Design

What motivates someone to leave a successful career path and venture into the unknown? Ruby Shields did just that when she bid farewell to her flourishing advertising career to embrace her true passion: interior design. Join us as Ruby opens up about the pivotal moment at 27 when she realized she had to make a drastic change for personal happiness. Ruby’s journey is marked by the courage to take risks, driven by advice from her father and a tenacity cultivated since childhood. Her story underscores the importance of making life choices that align with personal fulfillment, even when it means embracing uncertainty and the challenges of starting anew.

Ruby Shields' experience as an interior designer is as vibrant and multifaceted as her career transition. In this episode, we discuss how Ruby’s advertising background enriches her design aesthetic, shaping her unique approach to building a portfolio and networking within the industry. Ruby offers invaluable insights for emerging designers on using social media creatively, illustrating how past experiences can influence professional growth. From overcoming personal adversities to celebrating achievements and mentorships, Ruby’s narrative is a testament to resilience and ambition, providing inspiration for both new and seasoned professionals navigating the evolving design landscape.

The transformative power of mentorship, self-awareness, and ambition takes center stage in our conversation with Ruby. We explore her current projects, where she gets hands-on with tasks like painting and tiling, showcasing her dedication to honing her craft. The episode dives deep into the significance of setting aspirational goals, embracing life’s unpredictability, and honoring the legacies of those who've inspired us. Ruby Shields’ journey is not just a career story; it’s a celebration of breaking cycles, living authentically, and paving a path for future generations to follow.

Follow Ruby's journey on her socials

Web: https://studioshields.com.au

Instagram: @_studio.shields  &  @studio.shields_theview

Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD

If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?

These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me Bree
Banfield and me Lauren Li, withsome amazing guest appearances
along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style, with a sharedpassion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights and inspiration with

(00:23):
you.
In this conversation, rubyShields shares her unique
journey into the interior designindustry, highlighting her
transition from advertising todesign.
The discussion covers theimportance of networking,
overcoming fears and thesignificance of authenticity in
building a personal aesthetic,which she most certainly has
done.
She sure does.

(00:43):
Ruby emphasizes the need totake risks and make bold
decisions to pursue one'spassion, while also reflecting
on her experiences in theadvertising world and how they
have shaped her design approach.
In this wonderful discussion,we explore the significance of
experience, research ineducation and the drive to

(01:04):
overcome doubts and challengesin pursuing a fulfilling career
in design, and I think that isreally key, isn't it?
And it's something that Rubyshows its passion.
She is just so passionate aboutdesign.
She is, yeah, and I think thatyou know if you're an
established designer, you'vebeen doing this for a little
while.
It's always so great to tapinto somebody who's feeling that

(01:26):
really great enthusiasm againfor design.
I know I felt that talking toRube.
Always, she's definitelypassionate, it would be one word
for it yeah, a hundred percent.
Before we dive in, I am helpingtwo small groups of interior
designers one emerging group andone for more established

(01:47):
designers in a mentor group, amastermind that we're doing this
year.
So if you would like to join asmall group of like-minded
designers to just be the bestdesigner that you can work on
your business, work on yourmarketing, and do it with
somebody guiding you and we'reall helping each other there's a
link in the show notes to findout more.

(02:07):
Sounds amazing and jump inthere to also find a link to
sign up for my info coming out.
I've got a few things coming upthis year.
It's going to be a big one.
We're going to be releasingcurated design packages so you
can achieve the look of abespoke design on a tighter
budget.
We're also going to be sendingout regular trend information

(02:28):
and we'll be releasing someshort courses to help you as
well.
So jump in and sign up for thatWonderful.
All right, let's dive into thisreally thoughtful and really
real discussion with RubyShields.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Hey everyone, we are with RubyShields today, who I guess I've

(02:48):
known Ruby, for it's been anumber of years.
Ruby, I met the first time at acult event and she I don't know
if you came up to me, ruby, andjust started chatting and then
we just I don't know, kind ofhit it off.
Anyway, I would say, got alongvery well, um, and then sort of
kept in touch, and then I askedRuby if she wanted to come and

(03:11):
do some work with me.
So she did that for as long asshe could put up with it, and
then, and then she was like ah,actually I'd like to think that
she was telling me the truthwhen she said she had too much
to do at school and needed tofocus on math, which I
completely respect.
And she was, I think, that yearalso heading off to the 30

(03:31):
under 30, which was a hugeachievement as well.
So she had a bit going on, butwe had a fleeting moment
together, working on a projectthat's nearly finished now,
actually, and it was really funto work together.
And I don't know how do you knowRuby Lauren?
Well, I think, ruby, we werechatting in the DMs in Insta and

(03:54):
it was just like back and forth, just friendly banter, and then
it was at one of those Decor oDesign or what was it?
Design show or one of thethings.
And then you're like, um ruby,I was like, oh my god, and
there's this beautiful person.
I was so nice to put a face tothe name.
So, yeah, it's, it's reallylovely, like I guess.

(04:17):
I feel like, yeah, chatting toyou as you were a student and
now look at all you've done.
It's really, but sincerely,it's really cool.
We'd like to think we had apart to play in your rise.
Oh, taking all the credit, noway, uh, you'll see, welcome
ruby.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you've been up to lately.

(04:37):
Oh well, you girls diddefinitely play a part in.
We thought, yeah, 100.
Um, everyone plays a part insome aspect of someone's journey
.
Uh, what have I been up to?
Just been bloody busy.
Quite frankly, if I'm not busy,I'm bored.
Um, but no, just busy.
Uh, working, uh, doing my ownlittle things.

(05:01):
And then, obviously, therenovation which is going to be
painting away this week, uh,this weekend, yes, painting, and
then tiling the fireplace,which is was my new bright idea.
So we've just, yeah, I know methat it's.
It'll look so good and thetiles are a good choice, um, but

(05:22):
poor pat has to do most of themanual labor on that one.
God love him.
He's so good at it.
So tiling is a tricky one, buthe's a perfectionist, isn't he?
So, oh, you'll nail it.
Yeah, killer perfectionist, um,resetting out because he wants
all the tiles in line.
Good though, great love thatfor him and for you.
Mostly, 100%, nothing less.

(05:47):
And I feel like so we've gotRuby on, because one of our
discussions we wanted to talkabout starting out in the
interiors industry, becausethere's a lot of different ways
that people do this.
You know, lauren and I went toschool and did it very
traditionally in a way, but mostpaths to interiors seem to be

(06:07):
not quite so linear, and I guessyours is one of those, ruby,
with having a different careerto start with, and so we thought
it would be great to have youon just to have a little chat
about those different ways thatwe get started in interiors.
And I guess let's start withthat.
The whole second career thing Imean I kind of had second

(06:28):
careers after interior designinstead of before.
You know, I did the study, didthe interior design job and then
I went and did architecturalrep and then I sort of went into
marketing and did other things.
I think, have you always been ininteriors, lauren?
Yeah, same as you,

Bree (06:45):
brie B.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Like high school diploma, did the degree, worked
as a student, worked as agraduate, like just the boring,
standard linear path.
I'm not boring.
Well, yeah, I guess, ruby, liketell us like what drew you to
interiors?
Oh, it's a long-ish story, butlet's go back to when I was like

(07:07):
14, 15.
Or back in time.
Back in time, let's get in theback in time machine.
Anyway, I loved interiors andall I wanted to do was be an
interior designer.
I met Sabella Court at her booklaunch, et cetera, when I was 15
, and I was just like so in aweof her.
I was like I Court at her booklaunch, et cetera, when I was 15

(07:28):
.
And I was just like so in aweof her.
I was like I went to herPaddington Isn't she?
She's a cool lady.
Yeah, I went to her Paddingtonhouse where they had the book
launch and I was just like sobesotted with the colors and all
of her little things and hercollection, anyway.
So I was like, yeah, this iswhat I'm going to do.
This is definitely what I'mgoing to do.
And then there was a woman thatI met at a show just like mind

(07:52):
you, a show, so like Melbourneshow, but it was Canton just to
put into perspective theirenvironment, that we're in a
cultural kind of show with likerides and stuff.
Animals, yeah, country showOkay, I think there was animals,
yeah, but anyway we did.
My family tradition was to do adrover's camp and we made damper
.
Anyway, this woman, where isthis going?

(08:14):
I know, let me damper one day,by the way, okay, I do know the
recipe off by heart, goldensyrup 101, butter.
Anyway, off my heart, goldenSyrup 101, butter.
Anyway, this woman came over tome and she was I don't know
where she was from, but she waslike I wouldn't do interiors if
I was you.
You'll never make it and you'llnever, like, earn enough money,

(08:35):
blah, blah, blah.
Like went on a whole diatribeabout it and I was like, oh,
okay, cool, no probs, I'll kindof put that in the back of my
head Anyway, I'll kind of putthat in the back of my head
anyway.
And then I was like I'll be anarchitect.
So I went and told mybiological mother that I will be
an architect and she was likeyou're not smart enough to do
that.
And I was like, okay, cool,I'll put that.
Thanks for your support.
Man's world, you never make it.

(08:56):
And I was like, okay, cool,okay, so I'll do fine arts.
Then, okay, so there's a look.
Yeah, I got accepted into finearts.
And then, right at the lastmoment, I changed that and was
like I'll do advertising.
Oh, great.
And because I was watching, whatwas the reason you decided to?
I was watching Mad Men at thetime.
Love the honesty.

(09:16):
It was like, so, growing up asa country kid, right, country
kid, country kid no concept ofmarketing, advertising anything.
Mad men sick, I'll do thatanyway.
I think it was fashion.
Honestly, yeah, I so annoyed atmyself although the interiors

(09:37):
and the interiors and theinteriors just like the whole
set design of that and I waslike, yeah, advertising anyway.
So I just decided that I'd moveto Melbourne.
I told my now husband, pat, hecould stay in Canberra if he
wanted to, because I was goingto move to Melbourne and this is
what I was doing, so you cancome or you can stay.
Anyway, he came.

(09:57):
So, yeah, started advertising,was good at it because I put
effort into it.
I think if you put effort intoit, you're always just going to
be good at something andexcelled in that career.
But there's always like beenthis inkling of like wanting to
be an interior designer.
The people in the agencieswould come up to me and be like,
hey, what are your thoughts onthis?
And I'd be like, oh well, I'dgo here.

(10:17):
Hey, rubes, where would you geta couch here?
I'd like be the first one in toget all the Bell magazines.
And what was the other?
There was like two, twomagazines that we'd get in the
first big agency that I'd workat and I'd race to get in first
up.
Just like, take one of theinterior design magazines home,

(10:38):
love that.
What was that agency world likeworking in?
Was it a big sort of morecorporate environment or what
was it like?
Gosh, it's not corporate,because we're all very creative
people.
Okay, yeah, right, because Iwas in the, yeah, art director.
So in the creative it was.
You know, when you're in it it'stumultuous and it's like wild

(10:59):
and it's hard and it's like it'schanged.
But it was a man's world.
So, like being a graduate inthat environment, you had to get
a thick skin really fast.
And I mean, you did watch MadMen, so you did know that going
in yeah, I did know that goingin Literally, of what it was
going to be like.
It was also set 40 or 50 yearsago, longer Right, so you'd

(11:22):
think it like half changed, butno, no, it hadn't really changed
.
Um, it had changed a bit.
But, yeah, you're, you're justin this drive of like this
creative and there's like teamsand you're working with each
other and like so it'stumultuous being in it.
And then, and you kind of like Ididn't love it, I found it
really difficult.
But looking back on it now I'mlike, oh, my god, it was

(11:43):
actually so much fun, like thethings that we get away with, of
like going for pub lunches onWednesday at 12 and getting
drunk and then coming back tothe office and working Good
ideas, good ideas come withalcohol.
But it was just, yeah, I guessit was like that environment of
just like you just work hard,you're coming up with new briefs

(12:08):
Like I turned out like arounder pitch for a sex toy
company, mind you, in 24 hours,yeah, so I think that just that
environment of yeah, ideas andcoming up with new things and
then presenting it, and thenthose ideas dying and then it's
just like you learn a lot inthat environment.
So I suppose, like it soundedlike I mean, you look back,

(12:31):
don't you?
You look back and thinkactually that was fun, but, as
you said, when you're in it it'spretty tough.
So you were the go-to interiorsperson unofficial so what made
you think you know?
Know what I'm going to takethat leap?
Was there a moment?
Or I feel like it's a prettybig decision.
If you're yeah, it is in acareer that you're doing well in

(12:53):
as well um, to make a decisionto leave that and do something.
I guess it's pretty unreal.
I mean, it's creative but it'sstill fairly unrelated, um, and
so you're going into a bit of anunknown.
You've got to go back to school, so you've got to start earning
money, so it's a really big.
And how?
And also, how old were you then?
If you don't mind me askingabout your age, hang on, I

(13:16):
actually don't know how old I am.
I had to do the mathematics,but I'm not good at doing
mathematics fast, I think.
I think I was 27.
I would have been 27, yeah,okay.
So you're established andworking, so it's not like you
know you're 22 or something andno, yeah, god, no, yeah, like
definitely established.

(13:36):
Um, okay, so, putting it intocontext, I got married.
I changed my last name, so itwent from Ruby Boynton Boardman
oh God, so long To Ruby Shield.
I then cut all my hair off.
I had really long blonde hair,cut it all off.
I was working at the top agencyin Melbourne and is still the
top agency in Melbourne Calledmy boss.

(13:56):
I said I've got some bad newsfor you, but good news for me he
looks like you're pregnant.
I was like you get something,but yeah, no, I'm leaving you.
What kind of came to that?
I think I just got to a pointwhere I was like, if I don't do
this now, then when am I goingto do it?

(14:18):
Yeah, and I think we all askourselves if not now, then when?
And my second part of that isbut why, when?
Why are we waiting for thatwhen?
Yeah, when it can just be now,uh, so good, actually, because,
um, I feel like you can, you canwait forever for when and it
doesn't happen, yeah, or it canalways be the wrong time there's

(14:41):
sometimes.
You just got to take a bit of aleap if it's something that you
know is going to make you happy, or you even just believe is
going to make you happy, andmaybe it doesn't, but you'll
never know that it didn't makeyou happy, right, if you don't
do it?
And I think there's two storiesthat come into this.
First part is like my dad, whowould say to me if you don't ask
, you don't know, and if youdon't do, you don't know.

(15:03):
So that's one.
So I was like, okay, cool, I'lldo it.
Yeah, he always said that Ifyou don't ask me, ruby, how do
you know?
I'm not going to say yes, okay,so I'll ask.
It's a no.
And I think the other one islike that tenacity and I guess I
got that like side story whichwe're going to go down is like

(15:24):
when I was 11, I decided that Iwas just going to move out of
home and I took it upon myselfthat I would take myself out of
this situation and choose abetter life for myself, 11 years
old, 11.
And I was going into an unknownand I didn't know if they were
going to say yes to me beingthere.
But what I knew was if I didn'ttry, how was I going to know

(15:46):
that I wasn't going to have abetter life.
Yeah, so I think the same aslike when I decided that I
wasn't going to stick inadvertising I needed to choose a
better life for me that wasgoing to make me happy.
So you reflect in to thatlittle person that was like you
need to do this for you 27,.
You need to do this for you 27,.
I need to do this for me.

(16:08):
Yeah, to see where it goes.
Yeah, so I applied like I put myportfolio together.
I didn't even really discuss itwith Pat.
Really, that's interesting.
No, because that little personwas like you're doing this?
Yeah, it wasn't anyone else,you wasn't anyone else and not
be influenced.
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't anyoneelse's choice besides mine.

(16:28):
So I was like put the portfoliotogether.
I turned to.
I had like I had a week to puta portfolio together because I
just decided.
I just was like, if not now,then when and why?
When?
Let's just do it now.
Yeah, put that portfoliotogether.
I submitted it to RMIT.
One because I'd already been toRMIT and it was easy.
Two, because the course wasreally good.
So it was like a double-edgedsword.

(16:49):
I was like, yeah, I should just.
Um, I told Pat, I was like thisis what I've done.
He was like, okay, well, I'llsupport you, no matter what
happens.
And I was like, hey, cool, Iwas like, because we're good egg
, he's a good egg, he's such agood egg.
Um, and then, and then, yeah,and then I, I got accepted and I
was like, okay, so now I guessI gotta quit my job because I
start in a month to go back touni, um, and I guess, yeah, that

(17:13):
that's the story, but thethings all weighing into it was
like having a whole shift inlike who I was at that time of
like changing name, cutting hair, yeah, it's a lot I wanted,
yeah, I just I wanted to, I justwanted to shed everything and
do something that was for me, um, and yet, going to a single
income was really that's alwaystough, yeah, but I guess, like

(17:37):
my, my goal was always to havekids at 29 and live life after
that.
So by taking that choice of, doI stay in a career that I'm like
semi-unhappy and slightly analcoholic and you're sort of
waiting, I mean, she has it rude, like a little bit, like a
little bit, but I still, youknow.

(17:58):
But you know, stay in a careerwhere I'm not particularly happy
but make a good amount of money.
It's an enabling career.
Let's clarify that.
Yes, it was an enabling career,although you do part-time work
at a winery.
That can't be, yeah, I know,because I get a discount in wine
, so like I can't give it up.
Sorry, we digress, we digress,oh, we digress, but yeah, so

(18:26):
it's like, do you stick and dosomething that you're not
particularly happy in so thenyou can fulfil one part of your
life of having kids, having acareer, settling down or doing
that.
And also you're waiting.
You literally just said youwere waiting to start your life.
Like that's not good.
Your life is now.
Your life is every day, exactlyyeah, exactly so like yeah, or
do I just, you know, throw it up, just do it, and my choice was
just do it.
Did you see how I tied that intoadvertising and mark tagline?

(18:49):
I love it, that slogan have Iheard that before?
Absolutely.
I liked the word that you used,tenacity before, and I think
that really, yeah, it does.
And no one's going to come andrescue you.

(19:11):
You, you know, when no one'sgoing to say fill out these
forms, like if you want to applyfor a new course and change
your career.
You just sounded like you, yeah,you were really at a point in
your life a lot of shifts and alot of changing.
Um, it takes so much courageand it takes a lot of sacrifice.
Like, as you sort of mentioned,you know it's real, going to
one single income, that's nojoke.
Like that's a real sacrificethat you, you do have to make
that choice.
And you know, it sounded likeyou really had that passion for,

(19:32):
for interior design in thebeginning.
So, um, the other thing that Ikind of take away from that is
you know, I was waiting for youto sort of go and this happened
and it was like a light bulbmoment and I decided to do that
and it wasn't.
And it's actually better,because if there's people
listening who are like, oh,maybe I want to do interiors, I
reckon a lot of people arewaiting for some kind of light

(19:53):
bulb moment.
Or, you know, if you want to bea bit woo, woo, a sign to say
this is what I should do, andyou just it was all, just you
you went, this is what I need todo for myself to live my life
the way I want to live it.
You didn't wait for some otherthing to happen and then go, oh,
that's probably what I shoulddo, like it wasn't an outside
influence, even not even talkingabout it, like I kind of love

(20:14):
that and I think more, morewomen in particular, I would say
, need to start being more incontrol of their own life and
and it come from within, notfrom an exterior, kind of thing.
That was just one of the thingsI thought was quite clever.
I think it's also like it'sjust our inner selves, like if
we're not, you know, we want tobe the little.
We want to be the person thatour little self wanted to be or

(20:37):
our little self wish they hadaround.
I saw a meme the other day thatsaid I'm into the memes that are
like meaningful.
Sometimes they speak to me,sometimes I just send them to
other people to make them laugh.
But this one said somethinglike the only people you need to
impress is like youreight-year-old self, let's say,
and your 80-year-old self.

(20:59):
Those are the only two peopleyou need to impress.
So will you look back and behappy with your life?
And would you look back andthink about your eight-year-old
self looking at you and goingthis is great, this is what you
should be doing.
I really liked that becauseit's no kind of external
influence.
It's all about making sureyou're doing the right thing for
you.
But it sounded like, you know,as you mentioned Ruby, you were

(21:20):
like this is not working for mehere.
I need to make a change.
So you've had that innerstrength since you were little
and I guess that's still.
Yeah, making a decision tochange your career, it has to
come from within and, yeah, Ijust really take my hat off to
that and that shows so muchcourage.
Yeah, it really does.

(21:40):
When I think about it, I'm likefuck, yeah, girl, you got this.
I look at that person and I'mlike I wish I had you once you
start making those harddecisions.
But the next hard decision isjust a little bit easier, right,
and I, yeah, and I think wewill get into that in like in
one of the other questions oflike you know what is what is

(22:01):
fear, when you've already fearedso much?
Well, that's, I mean we cantalk about it now Like what did
you want to add to that?
God, I can't remember.
I just it was like around fearof like, rejection or, you know,
fearing taking thoseopportunities, like what's the
worst that's going to happen.
You're going to be left onbread, possibly, which you know

(22:23):
seen on Insta a lot.
It's a hard thing, though, toget past.
I don't know.
We probably haven't had thisconversation, lauren, so I'll
get you to chime in, but for me,I take things very personally
and even after 50 years, I stillfind it really difficult to
separate things from it being apersonal, I don't know, not

(22:46):
attack, but like just they don'tlike me, or it's something
quite personal.
The reason why, where oftenthat's not the case In fact,
you'd probably say maybe 90% ofthe time it's to do with some
other situation, or that thingsweren't right, it wasn't the
right time, wasn't the rightperson, whatever it is, we're
talking career stuff, but Ireally struggle with that
separation of taking rejectionin particular.

(23:09):
Personally.
What are you like, lauren?
Are you good at kind of beingable to kind of I don't know
separate those two things, orare you a bit the same?
I feel like creatives tend tobe a bit like that.
Well, in my old age, I thinkI'm getting a bit better at it.
I you know, and I think that'swhy it's so great to be chatting
to you, ruby, because you know,talking about that fear and

(23:31):
putting yourself out there, itis scary.
It is scary to put your videoon Instagram, to put your
opinions out there to the worldof.
You know, a bunch of strangersand no, not everyone's going to
like you, and I've just thought,oh well, and not everyone's
going to like me and that's okay.

(23:51):
Yeah, and that's a really goodpoint.
I mean, we all sort of have toput ourselves out there at the
moment in terms of and you know,one of the things we wanted to
talk about was how you make yourpresence known, and social
media gives you that opportunityright to actually make your
presence known in the industry.
But to do that, you have to putyourself out there.
You have to take that risk thatpeople aren't going to like you

(24:12):
, people are going to say shitthings and you've just kind of
got to let that roll off.
Right, you do, and I think youknow, when we first started
chatting Ruby on insta, and I'mseeing this student create these
amazing materials boards andyou put your 3D renders out
there on Instagram I'm like, ohmy gosh, every other student

(24:32):
needs to see this.
This is what you need to do.
You need to put your work outthere.
Is it a real project?
No, who cares?
No one cares.
But we got to really get toknow your aesthetic, your point
of view, your ideas about design, and you know, I think, maybe
do you think your advertisingbackground played into that.
Oh, I think, without a doubt,the marketing, advertising

(24:53):
background.
You can't not look at my pageand go advertising and marketing
has, like, yeah, just the artdirector of like being able to
refine, you know, refine yourideas.
And you know, refine your ideasand you know, market that and
place it in a really nice,aesthetically pleasing like.
I love my Instagram.
That sounds so egotistical, butlike, scrolling through it, I'm

(25:14):
like love it.
I think it looks so nice.
It does, though, but you haveto stand by it.
You have you have to believe init, because otherwise other
people won't.
Um, have you read that book?
It's called the practice byseth godin.
No, I only ever read um crimethrillers.
I know, I'm so nerdy.
I read all the nerdy books.

(25:35):
Anyway, he just talks aboutputting your work out there,
basically, and shipping it.
That's the way he sort of saysyou create it and just take, put
it out into the world.
And you know, because he's sortof a marketing kind of guy I
thought you might have.
You're not as nerdy as me,obviously, so that's that's good
for you.
But, um, is that what it'scalled the practice?
Yeah, by Seth Godin?
Yeah, and it's just about thatcreative process.

(25:56):
And you know, there's no pointin hoarding it all and keeping
it in your Dropbox cloud for noone to see, but so putting it
out there on Instagram it's just.
You know, did you find that wasthat difficult in the beginning,
or how did you sort of overcomethat?
Or were you just like you knowwhat?
I got nothing left to lose.
Yeah, I think it goes back tojust like having nothing to lose

(26:17):
.
Like, what?
What's the worst that's goingto happen?
Yeah, like in in the scheme ofthings, in what I as, like a
sole person, has gone through,just as an individual, what is
the worst that's going to happen?
Yeah, you might get a troll.
I don't know.
You might get a troll, and thatwould be kind of validating.
Wow, I've made it.
I find it really entertaining.
I find it really entertainingwhat we learn about.

(26:38):
Like, if you get a troll,you're doing good.
Yeah, you're doing yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it shows that you'reputting someone that starts an
account, just so they controlyou.
I've made it flattering.
Oh god, it's so flattering.
Actually I'd be like, oh, but Idon't care that much.
You need a poor ruby.
That's your next goal.
Ah, okay, I'll add that to thelist.

(26:59):
If anyone's listening, can youplease be my troll?
But literally, isn't that theworst thing that could happen?
And who cares?
Who cares?
Who cares?
Honestly, at the end of the day, like you know God, we've just
got to bloody try.
I've got you know the people.
The only thing that I'm scaredof is disappointing the people
that I really respect and adore,like, and you know, at the end

(27:22):
of the day, I don't do that tothem.
That's all I care about.
Yeah, I like that.
If someone doesn't like my post, oh, screw you.
It's a good post I love.
You're missing out.
What is your instagram handle?
Abrivi shields underscoredesign.
Oh, okay, got it.
Everybody.
Where to go?
Yeah, please, no, I feel likeobviously, social media is like

(27:44):
a really big thing in terms ofpresence in the industry.
I would probably say the otherthing that I think you and
Lauren and I are probablyreasonably good at is just
getting out there and being inthe industry personally and
seeing people.
Do you think that's anotherthing that is like really
important to kind of get yoursort of self-known 100% starting

(28:07):
out as a graduate.
Yes, it's scary, like it is isincredibly scary, um, doing that
.
But what's like again, what isthe worst that's going to happen
?
They're probably going to turntheir back and be like, oh,
thanks, thanks for coming, nice,to meet you.
And then walk away like, yeah,it hurts a little, but like at
the end of the day, at leastthey know your face and you've
made some sort of impression.

(28:28):
And then you can follow them upand DM them on Instagram and be
like, hey, it was really greatmeeting you tonight.
And if they leave you unseen,that's fine.
Like you, still, you made theeffort and you can walk away and
know that you tried.
And then, if they don't, youcan turn around and one day,
when you're in Vogue Living andyou look really good, you can be

(28:49):
like bet you wish you commentedand like replied to my message.
But even if they don't, even ifthey don't, that's fine, why
don't you?
I'm just trying to think back.
I mean it was a long time agowhen I was out of school or even
well, you were really going toevents when you were still at
school.
How did you even find out aboutthem?

(29:10):
Like, what we do, was it viasocial media or just by other
people that tell the totalsocial media?
Social media played a reallybig part in that and, like I
guess, having a couple of goodpeople that you know, that was
like doing bits and pieces inthe industry, but also, like I
just spent a lot of time slidinginto people's DM I thought I

(29:31):
was the only one.
No, me too.
Sorry, laurie.
Sorry, I have to say you did itin a really genuine way, like
we would have nice chats.
So there's a difference, youknow.
And also, I just wanted to getthat mention in there that you
were.
You got a commendation for theGraduate of the Year Award, is

(29:52):
that right?
Yes, and that is so awesome.
So you know, we're not justtalking to, like you know, and
that's across all of thegraduates of interior design.
Is that right?
Yeah, it's pretty big.
Yeah, in Victoria, oh, right,yeah, it's pretty big.
Yeah, in Victoria.
Yeah, oh, in Victoria, it'spretty big.
So, sorry, I just wanted to getthat in there.
Thank you, I was.

(30:12):
It's very cool.
I feel like awards can be.
So I've never I don't thinkI've ever entered any awards and
I kind of I need to sort of,you know, do that a bit more now
.
But I feel like that'ssomething you're actually really
good at too spending the timeand making sure you're doing
that and I think that is a wayto get noticed too, isn't it?
Yeah, the award thing comespurely from advertising, like

(30:36):
the drive to win awards.
Because, like in advertising,that's part of it.
You go hard on awards.
They're quite meaningful, yeah,and you want to be an agency
that's multi-awarded,multi-awards, yeah.
So that's why I've entered intoall of the awards only purely
because in advertising land,awards are currency and if you

(30:57):
have good currency, then youcost more.
Yeah, that's the mentality inadvertising.
You've got it.
Oh, yeah, I entered theAustralian Interior Design
Awards and I got shortlistedtwice.
So it is nice to be minglingwith that group.
But I was going to say as well,you know, I could imagine a lot
of graduates or a lot ofstudents going oh, how come Ruby

(31:17):
got to do this?
How come Ruby got to do that?
Because she entered.
Yeah, did you?
I don't know.
It's really cool.
It goes back to one of my dad'sother sayings If you don't try,
then like again.
You don't know Like, so you mayas well just try, and if you
don't get it, then that's fine,but you can just try again later
.
Love that.

(31:49):
And I want to come back to yourpoint, lauren, like genuineness,
I feel if you're not authenticand you're not you, then you
won't have the cut through.
Yeah, because totally there isso many interior designers out
there and decorators and if youaren't authentically who you are
and you're about lost, you justyou're just gonna get lost.
Yeah, because no one can be you.
Yeah, only you can be you.
So you really need to hone thatskill.
It's simple, but actually Ithink you're really hitting on

(32:12):
something there that people do.
I think people can feel thatgenuine I don't know character
and when you're not, that peoplereally notice it and you're
sort of way less memorable whenyou're not yourself, like you
just have to kind of trust thatnot everyone's going to be your
person, but the people that areare the ones you're going to
attract when you'reauthentically yourself.

(32:34):
I think that's another fearthing, right To think that you
have to be, have to kind of youknow, appeal to everyone, and
it's almost the same thing.
Like you know that, lauren, andand I would say too, if you're
an interior designer trying toget work, you can't appeal to
everyone.
You've got to kind of find yourpeople right, and if you're not
authentically yourself or doingwhatever you're supposed to be

(32:55):
doing, it doesn't happen and yousort of end up getting just
lost in a sea of yeah, ofnormalness or whatever.
And I think I said like I, Igot bullied so much in school.
No, awful amount.
I didn't have very many friends, like full stop.
I found that really funny,right, so sociable and so easy

(33:15):
to yeah.
High school is a whole otherthing, though, isn't it High
school?
But it was primary school aswell.
Primary school and high schoolawful time.
But I think that's what's alsocreated that Like I don't care
about, I'm not going to be yourfriend, I've got my people and
that's all that matters.
Yeah, like I can't please, youknow, cheryl, I can't please

(33:36):
Ruth, but I can please hurry andlike yeah, like you know, and
god.
There was another thing that Iwanted to pull back on.
Okay, so also, when going toevents, research who you're
seeing, yeah, okay, yeah, that'sa good point Vaguely know who
will be there as well.
So, for instance, I went to oneof Flaxclint's drinks and I

(33:58):
would have been first year,first year studying, and I had
researched Marty Doherty andMarty was there.
Oh, that's cute.
So I walked up to her and Isaid hi, marty Doherty, I'm Ruby
Shields.
Hi, marty Doherty, first andlast name.
I know that you like to sing inthe car really loud when you go
home and I really like to dothat too.

(34:20):
Cute, and you really likeearrings and that's so fun.
And then I followed it up thenext day with really lovely to
meet you.
And now I'm a really closefriend with marty jody.
Yeah, so that's not a badfriend to have.
And marty, it's not about she'sso lovely, so beautiful, and
she's just like, oh, I just yeah, I have a lot of respect for
marty, but like, if you don't,you know, she could have turned

(34:42):
around and said really nice tomeet you, ruby.
Um, have a good night.
Yeah, that's fine, and stopbeing my stalker.
Um, all the articles, um, andknow what I do in my downtime,
um, but yeah, I think that's areally important thing is like
when you're going out into theindustry to like at least know
some key people.
Then, another thing that Ilearned last night is to go in

(35:05):
and have three people that youreally want to have meaningful
conversations with and thenfloat between the two and make
it that your mission.
So, for instance, what do youfocus?
Just rock up and go where'swhere's my wine?
And, hi, look, I meet most ofmy people at the snack table.
Um, that's where I'm lingering,near the catering.
I always linger near the food.

(35:27):
You're always funny.
I think it's wine first andthen, okay, where is the food
coming from?
I need to be in that kind ofprojectory.
We've got it down pat.
We've got it down pat, but canI just back up for a second?
So when you said you went tothis event, so you're in first
year, yeah, who did you go with?
Like, did you have a buddy togo with?
Or oh, who did I go with?

(35:49):
Like I don't remember who Iwent with.
It's almost like even justtaking that first step, if
you're first year, you might notreally have a little, you know,
a few interior design buddiesyet.
Um, yeah, it's on your own.
It can be quite scary to go onyour own.
Um, so that that you know who.
Who are you studying with?
You know, get a group together,say let's go to this event

(36:11):
together and then totallyabandon them when you see Marty
Doherty over there.
No, don't do that 100%.
Do that.
It's really important.
But I also love that you didthat bit of research and you
know, every now and thensomebody will shoot me a resume
and when they don't know my nameor they address it as Dear
Sassala, well, sassala is mybusiness name, it's not my

(36:33):
actual name.
I mean, it's a bare minimum.
You've got to know my name.
But why is it Exactly?
I hate that.
I mean, I almost just skim overthose or delete them if there's
no, particularly if they getsomething wrong in the first
line, like you're natural, yeah,yeah, why would you even kind

(36:55):
of think about it?
Because you're obviously notthat interested and they're
literally just shooting thingsout to everyone.
Yeah, haven't thought properlyabout who they want to.
I guess work with which I guess, is a good, a good point.
Like I was really fortunate, Ium went straight into a job in
my final year of school.
Actually, I was trying toremember how this happened when
we were like writing stuff totalk about, and I actually can't
remember whether I was justnoticed in the class might've

(37:18):
been one of the teachers put meforward.
You know like you've got greatteachers right.
You're a teacher, lauren, andyou know what it's like if
you've got a great student,you'll put them forward if
someone's looking for someone.
I think that's how it happenedand anyway I fell into a job at
which I ended up in for a while.
But like that's probably one ofthe hardest things, I think, if
you don't even know where tostart in getting a job, like if

(37:40):
you want a job in the industry,did you, ruby?
Would you say that you kind ofjust approached the right people
or what was your kind of?
I don't know?
Did you have a strategy on that?
I guess my strategy on that wasstalk people.
It's called research, it'scalled research, research,
researching people.
I think there was like my hitlist and I had like nurtured

(38:03):
those relationships throughoutuni and made sure that I was
like that if I walked into aroom they'd know exactly who I
was.
So like, for instance, david.
David said to me when I, when Imet him and I went to introduce
myself and David Flack was likeno, ruby Shields, I know who
you are.
And I was like, oh, that's sogreat, cool.
That is cool, ruby, that iscool.

(38:25):
That doesn't happen by accident.
You know you've nurtured that.
You've.
Yeah, exactly so I think it'slike that.
Yeah, it's paid off.
That's some research reallywell done.
Um, on that Instagram now, butyou know it paid off at the time
.
Um, I mean, yeah, I'm blocked.
No, I'm not, thank god, thankgod.
No, I think there's a level.

(38:46):
There's a level that you needto respect.
It's like engaging with thembut not like being creepy, and I
think that is a good point.
You know it's having thatrespect for them as
professionals.
You're not like first DM, hey,dave, like da-da-da, like I
don't know you yet, we're notthat familiar.
Yeah, no, you've got to alsorespect that they're.

(39:07):
Yeah, I think that's a goodpoint.
Yeah, can we just go back to?
You were saying you know you'vegot to put your work out there,
but also you've got to be you.
But sometimes, when you'vestudied, you don't know who you
are yet as a designer, how doyou develop that aesthetic?
How do you?
You and I guess it's probablyby putting it out there, isn't
it?
You just gotta put it out thereand you, you're honing it.

(39:30):
I don't know, you are honing it.
You are honing it as you go.
It's, it's hard again.
Someone recently asked me thisof like, how do I be more like
you?
And I was like fuck, that'sreally hard.
Um, hashtag, trauma, go throughit, coming out the other end,
um.
But I, yeah, I honestly don'tknow, I just I guess my, my

(39:52):
style, I don't know.
I can't answer that properly.
I just I just push really hard.
Do you think, ruby?
Um, and this may not be relevant, but I think that you, because
you had that first career, youprobably have a different level
of confidence than, say, someonewho's gone straight from school
into interior design course andthen they're still kind of

(40:14):
quite young and I think whenyou're younger you can have a
particular point of view, butit's really not developed as
much as someone who has alreadykind of been out in life and
been working and I don't knoweven just experience, like even
travel and all of that stuff.
I think that all of thosethings kind of help develop your
sense of style or whatever youraesthetic is.

(40:34):
So I think it can be reallytricky.
You've just got to kind oftrust that you're going to start
somewhere when you're youngerand that it will develop, and
you've just kind of got to likeput it out there and let it
happen, a bit like what you'resaying, lauren, but um seth says
like if you don't, it can'tdevelop, if you don't put it out
there and just keep kind oflike working on it, right, yeah,
hmm, it's hard when you'rereally young.

(40:56):
Yeah, in advertising, likeyou've gone through, you've
tried a lot of different styles.
Like you're meeting differentbrand guidelines every day.
You can go from Bupa healthinsurance to sex toys, back to
Haagen-Dazs ice cream, yeah, andit's like you have to balance
all those different tones ofvoices and styles.

(41:17):
And so through that processI've already nutted out, you
know, not colours but like, forinstance, I've like nutted out
what my style is through thatand my style has developed over
time.
But I guess there's always justbeen a knack for combining
materials together that I justreally love and it's just like a
lot of research.
I spend a lot of time scouringthe internet looking for new

(41:40):
products, for new materials, fornew designs, and that helps me
develop as well, because I'mconstantly looking and
researching and I always returnto faction because, one, I love
it and, two, it's just reallygood inspiration, um, but we can
just learn a lot from ourenvironment, even nature, like I
love making material boardsfrom nature.

(42:01):
Yeah, it's cool.
Something like that was aproject once.
We had to like actually usesound objects.
That sounds really fun.
Oh, that is fun, lauren, youcould do that.
Yeah, I feel like doing thatthis afternoon.
But yeah, I think you make sucha good point, ruby.
You know we're not all in ourown little island.
We are always absorbing what isaround us.
And you've just got that radaron and you can't switch it off.

(42:24):
So you know you've got to castthat net wide and I like this, I
like this.
No, not that.
No, not that.
Like you've just got to have it, you know you've.
Then you slowly start to editdown and that develops your own
aesthetic, and then we all knowwhat that aesthetic is because
you've put it out there, so youknow.
So I suppose could you tell usabout how your position now with

(42:48):
Wawa?
How did that come about?
Sorry, I said that wrong.
No, don't worry, tell us again,ruby, once and for all, so
everyone knows how to say it.
I might say it wrong.
Now.
Pressure, pretty sure, I'mpretty sure.
Wawa, wawa, wawa, but don'tworry, I yeah, I went into my

(43:09):
interview and was like I reallywant to work at, well, well, um,
how did that come about?
Research, research, um.
But I guess I was always, um,sliding into, uh, the dms and
just made myself very activelyin view.
So, going back to that hit list, yeah, that hit list was

(43:33):
Doherty, flack there was oneother one and Wawa, so I had a
top four that I wanted to workat.
I got an interview with Marty.
Marty was like yes, but I don'thave the work in the pipeline.
I went in for one at Flack todo the FF&E.
It was an FF&E role and Idecided that I didn't actually
really want to do that.
So I said, no, I just I wantedto design, yeah, and that, yeah,

(43:59):
I needed to design.
I didn't want to, I just didn'twant to do schedules all day.
And then I did go for WendyBergman, because I love Bergman
and Co.
Yeah, um, but Wendy didn't haveWendy runs a really small
studio and she didn't have spacefor me.
But it was yes.
Again, it's always it's like,yeah, those there were yeses.
It was just like they didn'thave the work work in the

(44:19):
pipeline.
So when I went to Mon, mon waslike yes, but I don't have
anything at this point in timeand I was like that's cool, was
like I'll bring you on as a daya week, though, to do the
Instagram, and I was like, okay,I can do that.
And then that day turned intothree days, and then that day
those three days turned intofour days, and then those four

(44:39):
days are turned into a nine dayfull night.
So yeah, so you've got yourfoot in the door right like 100.
That's so awesome.
So I think it's just like thatopportunity like you know, it's
not always going to happen andif it starts off a day a week,
you know like at least you'rethere a day a week, and then it
might turn, yeah, and then youmight turn into something else,
and it might not, and at the endof the day, that's okay too,
like we'll just find somewhereelse.

(45:01):
This is the thing as well.
You have changed your wholecareer.
You have re re-qualifiedyourself.
You have spent a lot of well,time and effort putting your
work out there.
You sort of really have to backyourself and think you know,
what do I really want to do?
Where do I really want to be?
And yeah, it's.

(45:21):
You know it is hard sometimes tosort of think almost a yes, but
no, I can't take that positionLike I think that's actually
pretty amazing that you actuallysaid no to David Flack's studio
.
It's not that it was a no, Ijust I went in for the interview
and then I sent an email thenext day and I was like I just
don't think it's right for me.

(45:41):
Good luck with your search.
So it wasn't like they offeredme it, I just was like like I
don't want to waste time, go, gonext.
Because, to be fair, you knowit, sometimes when you're
working as an interior designer,even if you're working on the
most amazing projects, you arestill in front of an excel
spreadsheet.
Yeah, day every day.
You know it's not as actually,you know, as fun as it sometimes

(46:04):
might seem, and so you werealready on that, which is miles
ahead of where I was.
Took me a few years to realise.
I don't know if I want to doanother 50 markups of
documentation today and drawinganother toilet and bathroom.
Really good point in terms ofwhen you are starting out that.

(46:25):
I mean, I know you sort ofshifted away from that
particular role, but you did endup taking a role that still was
social media, which I guess maybe slightly more appealing.
But it's a really good point tomake that when you are trying
to get into the industry,sometimes you've just got to
take something that maybe isn'texactly what you want but it's a
foot in the door of where youwant to work.

(46:45):
So say, if you had gone downthat path with flack, that still
could have opened up.
You know, you might have had tohave spent time in that role,
but it could have been anotherrole open and then they would
have recognised that you weregreat for that.
I think that's sort of, you know, like there's that organic way
that you end up where you needto be and that it's good to
definitely have a strategy andto say no to things that aren't

(47:08):
right, but also to be a littlebit open about how you sort of
get to where you need to go,because there's not always a
direct way.
Sometimes there's the back doorand the side street.
Yeah, totally, totally.
And you know, sometimes I thinkabout that and I go.
Maybe I should have gonethrough the whole process just
to see where it landed.
But then in other breaks I'mlike you know, this is where I

(47:31):
am and this is what I'm doing.
I love that you were decisiveabout that, yeah, and you've
ended up where you need to be.
But, yeah, I think that there'sjust, there's just a, I guess,
a trust in yourself to know whento say no to things and when to
say yes.
Or you just do what I do andjust kind of say yes to
everything and then work it outlater, yeah, but I think that

(47:55):
speaks to your ambition, ruby,and where do you think that's
come from?
How do you think about ambition?
Do you manifest or do you moodboard, or how do you?
I don't mood board, or how doyou?
I don't mood board?
Voodoo dolls?
I don't know, I wouldn't put itpast me.

(48:15):
No, I'm joking.
Mac and Marty, can I tell you afunny story about a voodoo doll
?
Yeah, oh, please.
When I was a student at a littlearchitecture practice.
You know all the fun things youget to do when you're a student
at a little architecturepractice.
You know all the fun things youget to do when you're a student
.
My task that day was to defrostthe freezer You're kidding.
And in the freezer, oh, I'vedone all sorts of things.

(48:38):
You know this littlearchitecture practice and you
know you do what you've got todo.
I found a voodoo doll in thefreezer that had clients and
builders' names pinned to it.
That's so funny.
Yeah, no, I was like what'sthis guys?

(48:58):
Wow, yeah, I think there's athing with voodoo dolls that
they're not activated.
You put them in the freezer andput them on ice.
They're saving it for later.
So funny.
Yeah, this architect, he wasalways like he was a lovely guy.
You know, you're doing weirdjobs like that and you do learn.

(49:21):
You know it was diarymanagement, it was oh, I can't
remember the other things Ilearned, but yeah, it leads you
on to the next thing.
That leads you on to the nextthing.
So I think, yeah, back to yourpoint, brie, about you know,
sometimes it's.
You know, was it my dream jobto be defrosting a freezer?
No, but um, it led to the nextthing, which led to the next

(49:42):
thing.
I don't know, I think I guessit's an old school way of saying
that and I'm just going to putthis out there.
My point of view is that I thinkthere's a lot of young people
that come out of design schoolsand their goal is and I think
this is a bit of a generationalthing, because I always wanted
to.
You know, when you're at schooland you're doing your projects,

(50:04):
you sort of in your head thinkabout what it's going to be like
if you had your brand and yourdesign thing and what it would
be called and all of that sortof stuff.
So I get that that's a big partof what a lot of people kind of
dream of and are aiming for.
But I'm astonished at how manypeople come out of school and
think that they can just gostraight into their own firm
without and I know people do andsome of them do it well and

(50:26):
some of them don't but you justlearn so much working with
people and for people and notjust.
I mean it's just so much thatyou don't get taught at school,
right, but there's also justgreat people skills that you
learn working with other peopleand I would highly recommend
anyone even if your goal is yourown firm just to spend a couple

(50:48):
of years even just with otherpeople and learning from them
and seeing how they work andkind of like just I don't know
learning a bit more about theindustry through other people
before sort of jumping into yourown business.
I don't know.
That's kind of.
I'm always amazed at how manypeople just kind of go oh, I'm
just going to go straight intomy own business, cause I think
it's.
I think it's just you don'tknow enough to do that.

(51:11):
Yeah, and it depends where youare, it depends what you've done
in your previous career.
But you know, working at thatlittle practice, you know, yes,
I learned about diary managementand I learned about, but I got
to see almost like a bit of abird's eye view on how a
practice runs.
Yeah, you know.
And then I went to anotherpractice which was a bit bigger,
and so it's a hierarchy.
I was like, oh, that'sinteresting and not for me.

(51:33):
Oh, wow, but I got to learn.
And there was a graphicdesigner in-house.
I got to learn software fromthem.
There was a CAD manager.
I got to learn CAD.
And I look back now and I think, oh my gosh, you guys taught me
so much.
And even if you wanted to workin a showroom, you know all of
the different contacts that youget to.

(51:55):
You know you get to speak toMarty Doherty when she walks in
or whatever.
You know just to talk aboutMarty again because she's so
lovely and awesome.
But sometimes you might have adesigner that you put on a
pedestal and then you work in ashow.
When you meet them and you go,I know, yeah, because you get to
see how they interact, eventhose little things, as you say

(52:16):
back to the people, brie, andyou know, working at those
practices, oh, I've got a greatnetwork of people.
If I need to start somebody,tell me some documentation,
somebody to help.
You know, you've got those foryears after, so there's
definitely something to be said.
Yeah, I mean no shade to workingin a showroom.
It's not like a lesser thing.
I think showrooms like part ofme is like one day I'd really

(52:39):
like to work in a showroombecause you learn so much, yeah,
yeah, you get to really getthat fine detail about the
product knowledge.
Yeah, there's so many pathways,but I think you know back to
you know, ruby, you've got areally you've got a pretty clear
path.
I feel Like you know where youwant to go, yeah, and I guess,

(52:59):
if so, where does that?
Yeah, where does that come from?
I like that.
That was a good question.
I think I have always had peoplethat have doubted me, and it's
not and it's not proved themwrong, it's like more.
So well, if they think I can'tdo it, then I'm just going to
make sure that I can do it LikeI'm going to shine because I

(53:21):
feel like not that I deserve toshine.
I don't think that's the rightway, cause I don't.
I don't.
Yeah Deserves not right wordthere, I guess.
Shine, I don't think that's theright way because I don't.
Yeah deserves not right wordthere, I guess.
Yeah, I just want somethingdifferent for my life than what
was laid out in front of me.
It's really interesting, isn'tit?
Like I feel.
I mean, you and I have hadconversations about trauma and

(53:41):
we've got some similarities inthe past there.
But I think that one of thethings that can happen is you
know, and I know other peoplewho've been through similar
things, and you kind of go.
It seems to be two ways you cango, yeah, and one of them is, I
guess, to fall into that sortof victim mentality and that
ends up where your life isprobably not so great because

(54:03):
you don't ever quite recover, orit's to tackle it, which is
sort of like what you've done,what I've done, and use it in
your life to, I don't know, fuelthe ambition or fuel the I
don't know the goals and notwant to repeat the things that
you grew up with.
And to do that, you have tokind of separate yourself from

(54:25):
that and just know this is whoyou are and be true to that, and
that's kind of what it is.
It's like it doesn't matterwhat they said or what situation
you were in.
It doesn't mean it has tobecome who you are.
I don't know if I put that verywell no, no, no, that is
exactly it.
It's like going back to thememe of be the two people that

(54:47):
you need to impress is the 80year old you and the eight year
old you, yeah, and then you'rethe person in the middle that's
gonna make that.
So you break the cycles, yes,you break out of the victim
mentality and you just pushthrough that, because you only
have one chance at life.
You're true, yeah, so you mayas well just use every essence
of that and make sure that whenyou get at the end, you're true,

(55:07):
yeah, so you may as well justuse every essence of that and
make sure that when you get atthe end, you're not like fuck.
I really wish I did thatbecause, like you know what is
the point?
I think also this drive of likeambition comes from, like my nan
was so awesome, yeah, she was,she was a pilot and then, oh
yeah, I know, but likesmall-time pilot, like, not like
a fancy, she was just asmall-time pilot at the local

(55:29):
airport, but still, as a woman,being a pilot back then, it's
still a big deal, right, it'sstill a really big deal, super
big deal.
Except she got married and hepigeonholed her into just having
kids and taking away herambition and making sure that
she was at home with the kids.

(55:49):
And, like nan played the pianoand she played the piano
accordion and she was aceramicist and she made those
creepy dolls with the ceramicfaces.
Oh yeah, the ones that stood inthe corner, yeah, fucking weird
, she had a whole room of them,like super weird.
And teddy bears.
She also made teddy bears.
Oh my god, there's dolls for me.

(56:10):
I had, like she used to givethem away and I a couple anyway,
the creepy, creepy dolls, um,but she was a super ambitious
person.
He's really creative, obviouslytoo, yeah, super creative, and
someone came along and dimmedthat.
So, like in some essences, I gowell, I'm living this life, not
just for me, I want to do it forher as well because, like, if I

(56:33):
could be awesome, then shecould be awesome as well.
That's beautiful, ruby.
Thanks for sharing that.
You know, if you have kids, oryou're an aunt, or the people
around you, the younger peoplearound you, you're doing it and
they're going to look to you inthe same way and go well, look
at what Ruby did and how amazingshe is.
Yeah, and you're a greatexample.

(56:54):
I think.
I hope so.
I think so.
I hope so.
My mouth is not as articulate aswhat I would hope it would be
sometimes.
I know you're doing sobrilliantly.
I think you should be so proudof yourself.
Hopefully that doesn't soundcondescending.
No, no, because I don't.
No, it's not condescending.

(57:16):
I guess you know I've got suchthe ambition of like and drive.
You know the commendation forthe interior design graduate
from the DIA.
You know I was happy, but I'malso like disappointed in myself
.
Oh, why?
Why?
Because it's like, not goodenough.
Oh God, I'm like, I'm so.
I am so hard on myself of like.

(57:38):
Well, you're always your worstcritic, right?
100%, 100%.
But yeah, it's amazing that Igot accommodation, but like,
wish I was the winner.
It's okay to be your harshestcritic as long as you still
realise how well you've done toget to that point, and I think
you've got to remind yourselfthat, how great that is and what

(58:00):
an achievement, and not be toohard on yourself.
I think it's okay to have alittle bit of that.
So you've got the drive to kindof keep on going and I love it.
Some credit, though, absolutely, and that it means a lot to you
.
I love that.
Something like that means a lotto you as well.
I think that's oh, it does.
Yeah, I put in a lot of like.

(58:21):
Going back to your firstcommentary of like leading you
to actually work on schoolworkwas 100% true, but like, I guess
, yeah, I made a lot ofsacrifices.
The heart that, yeah, the thingthat I put on myself is that I
made a lot of sacrifices to dothat degree and I really wanted
to be the graduate of the year.
Yeah, fair.

(58:41):
So I'm annoyed at myself that Ididn't get there, because
that's my goal in uni was totake out Jewel Arts Colour Award
.
Well, you did that, didn't you?
I did that, I did that and tobe graduate of the year.
So at least I got one of them.
Can I go back to?
I meant to ask you about thisbecause I won't know a lot about

(59:02):
it, but the 30 under 30, thatwas a great achievement too.
Right, that was a greatachievement.
Why for that?
Yeah, I did apply.
Okay, so this is like anotherone of like an opportunity.
So I applied, I didn't get inthe top 30.
Oh, I do know this story.
But yes, yeah, I didn't get inthe top 30.
I went to an event at MieleShowroom in South Melbourne I

(59:23):
think it's Miele, anyway, one ofthe brands and Paul was there.
So Paul's the runner ofAustralian Design Review and he
came up to me and he was like hi, ruby.
And I was like hi, sometimes Icompletely blink and I'm like
trying to fucking work out whoyou are and where you fit in.
He's like congrats on 30thanniversary.
I was like, oh, thanks, didn'tmake it enough.
And he was like well, you were31.

(59:46):
You were like you were so close.
And he's like but look, we'veactually got some spaces to go
to Bali and contact me tomorrow.
And I'll contact you tomorrowbecause I've got all your
details and I'll send youthrough the information.
So I got to go to Bali and Igot the trip.
What?
Oh, my God, that's so cool.

(01:00:07):
I remember that now, yeah, oh,wow, I got the mentoring session
and like Ara, who's the stateof kin director, is my mentor
and like, hands down, that womanis like she's, she's fucking
amazing.
Yeah, she works so hard and issuch a wonderful, genuine person
and I am so happy to have, likeyou know how you have like

(01:00:30):
people in your court, yeah, andlike I've got you too, and I
have you know, nick, and I haveAra, and like if those are my
people that I have that I canalways rely on, yeah, then I'm,
then I'm, then I'm doing prettywell, yeah, well, that's
actually.
That's actually brings us tolike.
A really good point is that ifyou can find a mentor just to

(01:00:51):
like help you I don't knownavigate the industry, that's
worth its weight in gold, isn'tit?
Yeah, or just like someone thatyou can call up and you're like
shit, like this is whathappened today.
How do I navigate it?
Yeah, and that person justturns around and they're like
it's okay, I've done this, I'vebeen through this, this is how
you can tackle it, don't stresswell, and it's just like, oh

(01:01:12):
yeah, thank god, yeah, I'd loveto actually want a mentor now.
I know, yeah, you always justneed to bounce ideas and I mean,
we were just having a chatbefore, ruby, weren't we?
And it's just like oh, the wayI see is like this.
And you're like, oh, that's adifferent point of view, I don't
.
Oh, okay.
So that is really valuable andit's not happened by accident.

(01:01:36):
These are relationships that youhave worked on, that you have
seeked out, so I think thatthat's a good message for people
.
Yeah, work on that.
It's going to come back.
It totally is.
And, like you know, when anyoneever messages me on Instagram,
I will always do my best tomessage back and give them like
the no bullshit answer.
Yeah, like this is what's toexpect bullshit answer.

(01:01:59):
And like this is what's toexpect.
Don't think that it's justmaking material boards.
And then, when people messageyou, they're like I really want
to do your course.
And it's like I know you wantto do my course because I've
succeeded at it, but you have tomake a lot of fucking
sacrifices.
Like that's the point, too,that we haven't really touched
on the kind of a big deal isdeciding um, which horse to go
with, but when you've decidedthat's what you want to do,

(01:02:20):
there are quite a few differentones out there now aren't there.
There's so many out there.
I think when Lauren and Istarted, there was really I mean
, I don't think there wasanything else other than RMIT at
the time.
Was there Lauren?
There might have been Box Hill,but yeah, rmit.
I mean the whole process haschanged so much it has.
We had an interview.
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
Yeah, so it was maybe a classof maybe 20 or 25.

(01:02:45):
Maybe there was two classes, anA and a B, so limited.
Bring back the interviews.
I say that's a good idea.
It's all changed now it's allgone.
There's private, you know.
Yeah, it's all changed now it'sall gone.
There's private, you know.
Private.
Do that research right.
So I think I mean you can kindof go.
I guess you have to think aboutwhat your end goal is Like.

(01:03:05):
Do you want to be doing?
You know what sort of interiordesign you want to be doing, and
if you want to know more aboutthat, you can listen to one of
our other podcasts talking aboutall the different types of
interior design and all thedifferent industries and
versions of.
So I think you kind of got towork that out first and then go
back and look at the courses andwhat the content is and also
just sort of match it to whatyou're keen to do, because not

(01:03:27):
everyone wants to do, I guessthe more let's say technical
side of things, like being ableto, you know, design kitchens
and bathrooms, they may onlywant to select the finishes or
do the decoration.
I think that's sort of howyou've got to decide where you
want to go in terms of schooland then how long you want to do
it for too right.
I think there's a couple ofthings.

(01:03:49):
There's like, I think, researchwhere you actually want to work
, because FLAC will only hirepeople who have a bachelor and
not an associate I think Marty'sthe same it will specifically
say bachelors.
My thought was I've alreadydone a bachelor's, don't really
need to do it again.
Yeah, I think that's true,right, well, the associate
degree, I feel, is a reallysmart choice, yeah.

(01:04:11):
So then it's like whatinteriors do you want to do?
Is the next part, like you werediscussing where you want to
work, what interiors, and thenresearch it and then work out
the amount of time and whatskill set you need, what you
already have versus what youneed to hone your skills on.
So the associate degree isexcellent, but it focuses
heavily on documentation, whichis not what the young kids

(01:04:33):
thought it was.
They thought it was like thefun stuff, yeah.
And then when we get into likeheavy, I love documentation too.
It was so good, I love it.
If I got into a zone I would behand drawing, but I did learn
CAD as well, but yeah, I lovedall of that.
Yeah, when you get in the moodand you're like doing the

(01:04:54):
lighting plan and then theelectrical, it's just like, and
then you make a really hotdocumentation pack and then you
like you finish it and you lookback on it, you're like I am All
the pages and yeah, you get inthe zone and you've got the
music on and you wrap it all upin a bow and you're like done,
love it, done.
And it was like there was nightswhen I was doing my final two

(01:05:14):
big commercial projects for YingYi and I would stay up and
listen to Doveset.
Okay, this is probably this isreally inappropriate, but I'd
listen to Doveset.
I'd have like the computersrunning, I'd have all the
materials on the Mac and thenlike be documenting on my PC and
then I'd have one and then I'dso the Doveset's like going and
your heart rate's going fast andpumping to that, and then I pop

(01:05:36):
anxiety pills to bring me backdown to a whole level.
I think that's at leastsomething that a 20-year-old can
do because, like you know yourlimits.
It's so funny, during one ofthose all-nighters to finish a
project, my music of choice wason Triple J at the time, so you
notice they have the particularmusic night and it was a
freaking beat.

(01:05:57):
Oh my God, oh shit.
That like got me through thatnight.
It was awesome, like a littledance.
Funny, I was doing like thefull, you know dancing and then
I'd get back into it Hilarious,it's so true, though, like even
renovating the house, I'm like,okay, is definitely a Kanye West
gold album?

(01:06:17):
Yes, we're going back a fewyears, hopefully Like 2012, I
think it was, or 2010.
Yeah, that album, that was agood one, that was a good one,
that was a solid one.
Or is it like 80s, like poprock day?
Yes, so, yeah, I love the music100%, but I think, yeah, going
back to like the course, that'sgoing to work for you.

(01:06:39):
You definitely need to do theresearch and have all of like
the facets that work into it andknow that what's going to work
for you, and then just notexpect, don't expect to exceed,
like others, like everyone's gota very singular journey.
Yeah, we, we all do itdifferently.
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's intense.
Like the associate degree isextremely intense.

(01:07:00):
Like we started with 26, nearly30 students.
By the end of it there was sixleft.
Oh, wow, that's something that Ithink's changed a lot, because
when I studied everyone, theymight have had a few drop, but
now they just drop off likeflies.
Yeah, I think people just don'thave the, I want to say,
attention span.

(01:07:20):
I think it's just like peoplego like no, this isn't for me,
and they move on, whereas, yeah,you kind of I think, from a
generational point of view,maybe more than anything, we
would stick with somethingbecause that's kind of what we
were taught to do.
I mean, I think if you hated it, you gotta leave.
But like you're like no, no,we'll see this through.
It's kind kind of like what wedo, right.
But I feel like people just,but also the cost of it, I mean
the cost of these degrees, likeyou know, if you are not loving

(01:07:42):
it, I mean, do you really wantto have?
I don't even know, like howmuch they like at least $25,000.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
So that actually plays into itmore than it did back when I
studied.
Oh my gosh, we're soundingreally old now, brie.
I think really, theuniversities have changed

(01:08:02):
dramatically in 10 years.
In even 10 years, I think it'schanged dramatically.
You know, the cost has gone up,but yeah, just, I mean even the
teachers, the casualisation ofall of the teachers.
You know, when I studied I hadmy teachers and I knew that the
next semester I'd get thoseteachers, but now you don't even
know who you float in and out,always different.

(01:08:24):
Wow, so it's quite different.
Yeah, yeah, it's even starting.
Doing my first degree, like youcould go through your timetable
and pick the teacher that youwanted to be with, whereas the
associate degree it was likewho's gonna be and pick the
teacher that you wanted to bewith, whereas the associate
degree it was like, oh, that'sthe teacher that, yeah, and they
were all really great.
Yeah, yeah.
So was RMIT?
Was that a choice that you madeor how did that sort of fit?

(01:08:46):
Or you sort of mentioned beforeyou'd already studied there, so
you're in the system.
I already studied there and Iwas like, yeah, good to go.
I had to keep my student cardof me at 21.
And I was like, I looked at itand I was like this is
humiliating, like I havedeveloped.

(01:09:06):
That's funny.
It was a lull.
But yeah, no, I was already inthe system and I knew the course
was a good course and it wasonly two years and I didn't want
to do a hard slog.
Yeah, yeah, I think thetimeframe is always a big factor
in it, especially when you'vegot like you've had a career you
don't really want tonecessarily go back for like
another three, like nobody's got.

(01:09:28):
No, I think it's really smartof you.
You've got to do your researchbecause it is going to be a lot
of money, it's a lot ofsacrifice, it's a lot of time
investment.
Go to the universities, askwhat the outcomes are.
Speak to ex-students Like it'sworth doing your research.
Because, yeah, I mean I don'twant to drop any hard truths

(01:09:49):
right now, but sometimes somestudents are pretty shocked of
what their you know employmentopportunities can be.
So you've really got to do yourresearch.
You really do and then, andthen it's how you use it, like
it's how you use that degreeexactly associate degree or
whatever it is like, you know,I've got six other students, but
do we know any of their faces,like you know?

(01:10:11):
And there was a cohort beforeme, do we?
So it's just like it's how youutilize that degree to make it
more beneficial for you.
Yeah, and it's what you want toget out of it.
I mean, yeah, you, you've gotreally big ambitions, um, and
that's okay if not everybody hasthat, and also some people.
Some people want to go sort ofmore under the radar and they
want to work on oh, I don't knowhospital interiors no, not not

(01:10:34):
the glamorous ones, and it'sstill really valid fulfilling
work as well.
Totally, yeah, it is.
Do you think we've covered offeverything?
Yeah, we have a couple of funquestions for you.
Ruby Goodie, before we jump ontothat, we were going to ask Ruby
about what she sort of sees toher future.
Being like, what's next for you?

(01:10:55):
Ooh, I'm too ambitious.
I've actually been like becauseI turned 30 in a week.
I'm like, oh, I really need tochange my ambitions because
they're too high and the diathing really like threw me.
Oh, um, you'll recover.
I will recover, because I keepon telling myself that's 30, I'm
going to be doing this foranother 20 years.
So, like, by the time I'm 50, Ican at least look back and be

(01:11:16):
like fuck, yeah, this is whatyou did.
Big goals.
My best friend said to me theother day.
She was like I'm not surprisedthat you've like, cause her,
she's getting married in April.
She was like I'm starting toorganize my wedding, blah, blah,
blah.
And I was like okay, here's myto-do list.
This is what you need to verymoving.
How many kids, where are we?
She was like oh my God.
And her, her fiance, was likehow have you already thought

(01:11:42):
about it?
And then Annalise was likeshe's been planning this for
like the last four.
Like don't, don't underestimate.
Oh, she's like, she's like thisway, all right.
So my goals are or like myambition is Vogue Living.
Like, I just want to bepublished in Vogue Living.
That's a beautiful goal, that'slike one, it's like a
semi-achievable like VogueLiving, just because I aspire
that magazine and I've beencollecting it for years.

(01:12:04):
And like, just like to be inthe glossy pages.
Yeah, 80, 100.
Oh God, that's like, that's abig one.
That's yeah, I love that foryou.
That's huge.
Yeah, that's like I.
Just I would love to be in thepages of like Yaz, you know,
like, and Black and like Fiona,like, yeah, okay, yes, I would

(01:12:24):
love to be the I think it's thetop 50 of Vogue Living.
Ah, yes, yeah, yeah, I'd loveto be a part of, like the women,
women in interiors that issue,that's a nice issue.
Yeah, and like you know, theissue that when they did that
issue, marty's little blurb sobeautiful, and I was like I just

(01:12:45):
want to be like marty.
I think we should dedicate thisepisode.
Yeah, we should.
Marty doherty um, she's gonnabe.
Here's a burning somewhere,right, yeah, yeah, she's the
best.
She'd be.
Like that's that.
Ruby Shield again.
Oh, amazing, amazing goals.

(01:13:05):
Yeah, she's not finished, she'snot finished.
We've got more.
So I've got more, but that'sokay, I'll just wrap it up with,
like, obviously, thoseambitions you know are under my
own studio, because, like, yeah,I think everyone, everyone
knows that's the end goal of whoI am.
Yeah, that's where I'll end up.
That makes sense.

(01:13:26):
It's just yeah, yeah, none ofthose are shocking.
I can actually picture them.
Yeah, I can actually visualizethe ad 101 is like yeah, nah,
not, no, I can see that, sorry,like, you've got a hundred
percent, I can see it.
Yeah, yep, I love it, love that, love that for you, ruby.
I can so visualise it.

(01:13:46):
So, all right, should we get toour fluffy questions?
Yes, so if you're listening onthe podcast, this is all you'll
hear.
If you want to hear the answersto these more personal and
interesting questions, you'llhave to jump over onto the
youtube channel.
There's bonus content.
Thanks, ruby.
So, um, thank you guys forlistening in and just a quick
reminder if you would like somehelp with the interiors for your

(01:14:07):
own home, I can help you in acourse called the style studies
essentials.
Or for designers out there,come into the design society for
business and marketing and allof the things.
Yeah, and in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for my soon-to-be-releasedfurniture collections,
pre-selected furniturecollections and cool trend

(01:14:29):
information, and then, in thefuture, some short courses on
styling and trends as well.
So, good Bree, we've got theutmost respect for the
Wurundjeri people of the KulinNation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you

(01:14:50):
from this podcast today.
A big shout out to all of theamazing elders who have walked
before us, those leading the wayin the present and the emerging
leaders who will carry thetorch into the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.