What happens when the timeless elegance of historical architecture meets the chic allure of contemporary design? Join us as we explore the fascinating world of the new French look, where iconic architectural elements blend seamlessly with modern aesthetics. In this episode, French Architect & Designer Sophie Dries shares the inspiration behind the project that features on the cover of the The New French Look, and reveals the delightful encounter with actress Julianne Moore, whose admiration for Sophie's work led to an unexpected friendship. Using her own apartment as a canvas, she illustrates the delicate balance of honoring traditional Parisian charm while incorporating futuristic pieces by innovative designers like Philippe Starck.
We journey into the heart of interior design with Sophie embracing the "genius loci" (The Spirit of the Place) of a space, the unique spirit that guides the creative process and the client's emotional connection to their home. The magic happens when transparency and collaboration meet, transforming a house into a personal sanctuary. Discover the rich tapestry of stories woven into the character of historical homes and the vital role designers and photographers play in capturing these narratives through evocative imagery. Each space tells a story, and we explore how personal touches and historical context can create interiors that resonate on a deeply meaningful level.
Perfection is overrated. Rather, it's the imperfections, the handcrafted, sustainably made objects, that truly define luxury in design. Sophie sheds light on the tactile experience of natural materials and their profound impact in a technology-driven world. From cultural differences in appreciating these nuances to the challenge of managing client expectations, this episode celebrates the evolution and innovation in architecture. Sophie discusses understanding and valuing our past, so we pave the way for future interpretations, inspiring creativity and experimentation in design.
Join us as we uncover the beauty hidden in imperfections and the limitless potential it unleashes in the world of interior design with this inspiring discussion with Sophie Dries.
About Sophie....
"After working with prestigious architecture and design offices such as Jean Nouvel, Pierre Yovanovitch and Christian Liaigre, Sophie created her studio in Paris in 2014 and then opened a second address in Milan in 2017."
"Sophie Dries was one the top 100 AD designers selected of 2022 & one of the 100 Phaidon’s World Best Interior designer and AD & Land Rover Awards."
Follow along on her instagram & website to see her bea
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If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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where it was, but I think I'vebeen following you for a while
and, yeah, I think it was justresearching for the book, coming
across your work and justthinking that is it.
Like, that is the new Frenchlook, you know, because it
(00:22):
really brings in, like those,obviously the historical
architecture.
But then you know, with your um, you know, this space, it's got
like a really contemporaryartwork and it's got these
really quite unique um furniture, um, it's got that handmade,
you know, bespoke element and itjust ticked all the boxes
(00:43):
basically.
So I was so thrilled when youagreed to share your beautiful
projects with me.
Um, so I think that was, yeah,probably the first, and it's
been so lovely, like you know,back and forth with all of our
emails and everything to get theyes, I really appreciate it.
Um, and one really cool thingthat happened was that, um, I
think it must have been throughyou.
(01:06):
The actress Julianne Moorereached out to me.
Oh, that's right.
Oh my goodness, she did.
How huge is that?
She's so nice.
She just slid into my DMs.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Really she's so nice
and she's really, yeah, she's so
nice, she's a true designer.
So, long story short, shementioned my name in an article
in Wallpaper Magazine and Ididn't know, like, as like
architects and designers, sheliked, and a friend sent it to
me and I was on my way to LosAngeles just for holidays
(01:38):
actually and I was like, oh,come on, this is just a sign
from Karma.
So I DMed her like, thank youfor mentioning my work, I'm a
big fan, but I just thought thatshe had a manager oh my gosh,
she does it personally, Wow.
And she immediately responds Ilove your work, let's try to
meet.
So super yeah, super, supernice, yeah, super, super nice.
(02:03):
And last day I was in a charityevent for art in New York and
she was there and I didn't wantto interrupt her and thanks for
her.
But I wanted to say that I loveyour work.
I truly am so honored.
And now we discuss more.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I imagine her to be
adorable.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I also have a bit of
a thing for redheads.
She's truly adorable and trulydesigned over.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
She's beyond gorgeous
, isn't she?
She is, I love her Well.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I remember seeing one
of her?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I think it was one of
her.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
New York apartments.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I've got an image.
It's saved from like 2008 or Idon't know, from years ago.
I was like I love that.
But yeah, it was such awonderful surprise and she just
said she really loved the bookand we've been friends ever
since.
Well, not really so close, soclose friends, we're really
close.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
That's our next
design tour.
Where does she live, lauren?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I've actually got her
address because she gave me her
home address she's in New York.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Oh, we're totally
doing New York next.
We're going to rock up.
She's going to connect us withall the right people.
New York, yes, and then I'llget to meet my redhead, an old
fangirl.
Yeah, she's great yes.
No, I think, yeah, design is aroute.
(03:32):
Yeah, that's so true.
I love that so much aboutdesign.
We kind of end up on a pathright and, um, I don't know, you
come across things that maybeyou hadn't expected to.
But that's part of the beautyof what we do absolutely,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
yes, she came first
time she saw maybe you too.
It was because I was publishingT Magazine like my personal
apartment and it was like a bigexposure.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Of course it was my
apartment.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So it was quite
radical what I could do in there
, but it's exactly what youdescribed now and it's a mix of
traditional context, veryParisian Love that mix.
It's a mix of traditionalcontext, a very Parisian
building apartment with supercontemporary furniture and art.
That's what I like to do toplay on this sort of real
balance between the respect oftradition and trying to be in
(04:19):
our and I think you've got somereally cool Philip Stark pieces
in there too, and so maybethey're not.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, they're sort of
not yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One here, like this
big, big bookshelf.
I bet I have quite many yes,90s and 80s pieces.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
They're so forward.
They're so forward looking Likethey're very sort of almost
futuristic, but yeah, reallygood.
Good mix like a really nicemingle of different eras.
It's so nice.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think that's my
favorite thing about european
design in general, not just umfrench style, is that ability to
be able to mix that tradition,particularly the architecture of
a space which is often a lotolder than what we have to do
within Australia with thosecontemporary pieces.
(05:08):
I think there's a real skill inthat.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, true, true, we
can live in a very old building.
My building is 250 years oldand sometimes in Italy, I lived
in 550 years old, 500 years oldbuildings or palazzos.
And what's interesting is tocreate this type of contrast
Regarding the Phoenix Dark orthe 90s furniture.
(05:33):
To me, they are related to mynostalgia of my childhood
because I was born in the late80s.
I think my nostalgia of vintageis not the 50s genre or the
mid-century, which is more thegeneration of older internal
designer than me.
That inspired me a lot, but Idon't relate to this nostalgia.
(05:56):
I don't have that in mychildhood memories of my
grandfather's house or myparents' house, but the 1980s it
was really also in the tv showsthat I was watching and I I
realized now by watching again,the, the first beetle juice by
the by team it's full of 80sfurniture from yes, oh, the
(06:17):
whole aesthetic crazy yes, alsothe fashion yes, like I could go
on and on.
So I have all this.
That's why I try to blendwithin my interiors also these
vintage pieces that are not yetI mean now.
They are since five years ago.
I feel like 80s is vintage nowright, yeah, absolutely.
(06:40):
Now it's vintage.
Even 90s it's vintage too.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yes, yeah, absolutely
.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Now it's vintage,
even 90s, 90s too, yes, but now
they are also in the market.
That design dealers.
It's Design my Main Pair isnext week and design dealers now
also sell 80s and 90s vintage.
It's more to me to relate to myown nostalgia.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I love that Love,
that Nostalgia is like such a
big part.
Well, for me it's a big part ofdesign.
But I'm just curious, like, howdo you work with other clients
that like that idea of nostalgia, but you're tapping into their
idea of nostalgia Do?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
you ever to their age
.
So, as I mentioned, the clientson the cover of your book is a
genius in tech, so he was one ofmy youngest clients.
He was in his 20s when I didthe apartment, so we could go on
like 80s and 90s.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Some of my clients.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
they are 70s, so
those type of 80s furniture they
had it at the time For them.
It's not those, they don't havethe same connection right.
They've been there, done that,it's really either they really
like the pieces, and they caneven in old collections
sometimes to find some of thesepieces, or, and if they have
(08:02):
beautiful mid-century pieces, Ilove them too.
I mean, I'm not againstbeautiful pieces, even from Art
Deco or from.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Art Deco?
Yeah, of course I likeoff-match pieces.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I love Jean-Michel
Franck and et cetera.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
But I don't fantasize
them or I try not to make it as
a fetish, sure, because I thinknot in the 30s and 40s, and I
think we have to look at yourand to support your, your
designers that are working today, and I think that what I found
(08:36):
when I was putting the booktogether is that that was one of
the.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
The elements was that
nothing like the rooms weren't
too precious, nothing, nothing'sput on a pedestal, it's lived
in Like you've got your PhilipStarck, you know, chairs or they
might not all be thatcomfortable, but they look cool,
but you can sit on it.
True, I'm sorry, but they lookamazing.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
But that sort of
relates to like the era, relates
to how relaxed it is too Likeif you talk about pieces from
the 30s and 40s they're probablyantique and maybe a little more
precious right?
When you talk about vintagepieces from the 80s and 90s, we
can be way more relaxed withthem, don't you think?
(09:20):
Like they're less preciousright.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Absolutely, because
also it was another industry
that in the 30s and 40s.
Every piece is handmade.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
A little more fragile
.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And absolutely.
And it was made of wood, it wasmade of lacquer and et cetera,
and in the 80s I mean since the70s there is an industry of
furniture and it was made to bemoved many times Also, like you
can move it from a house toanother.
You can move from a room toanother.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Durability became
more of a factor right Than it
was before.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's another way to
live with.
Yes, and what Lauren said thedesign is quite pure and radical
.
So it's true that it's not ascomfortable as in the 30s, where
we could stay four hours in onearmchair.
Yes, or you can have a quickerlunch or quicker dinner on this
type of chair.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
But you know what I
find it comfortable for my eyes
to look at, oh, my God, I lovethat.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
It's a whole
different level of comfort,
right I?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
find it comfortable.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yes, it's more about
being on the move than just
being sitting somewhere.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yes, you know, I was
looking at your website, sophie,
and there was this reallyinteresting term that I had not
heard before.
Can you help me understand?
It was called Genius Loki.
Genius Loki, it was a Latinterm.
Loki, yes, yeah, yes, and itwas about the spirit of a place.
(10:59):
How does that kind of informyour projects?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yes, so it's a very
important term.
So that's why I use theoriginal term, the latin one,
genius loki, uh, which is aboutthe genius of the space.
So the spirit of the space, um,of the location, uh, because to
me, even though I did, I don'tknow how many like osmanian
apartments that can be similar.
(11:25):
They are always differentbecause they are always unique.
The light is unique in each ofthem because they are located in
the same directions, in thesame building, and also it's
about the people living in.
So to me, every project is sounique because it's about where
it is.
So you have to understand thefuture of the place, the history
of the place, the vibe.
Because it's about where it is.
(11:45):
So you have to understand thefuture of the place, the history
of the place, the vibe.
So it's very, it's somethingyou have to experience, you have
to build these things.
And then about the owner,because everybody's different.
Even though most of the designI do homes for families or
couples, sometimes for singlesEvery scenario is different.
(12:06):
So you always have to tell anew story, even though it's
always like a master bedroom andmaster street and kitchen and
dining, but you have to tellthose people's story in this
exact space.
I love that I sometimes say that, making the house of someone as
(12:31):
an NJR designer is like makingthe portrait of someone it will
look like the person, but I willbe the author and it will be my
piece of art that's such abrilliant analogy.
I love that that we have to havea conversation together to
reach the point of.
It looks like you, but it's, byme, so good.
So good Because you are both inthe industry and you know that
(12:53):
most of the people, especiallytoday, with beautiful books you
do, or internet or magazines,people sometimes feel very
entitled to be their owndesigner.
But they call us to have somehelp.
But it's very different what wedo.
We are not just helping peoplemaking their home, we are really
making their home to help themto live there but, not to be
(13:16):
assisting them, as they would bethe interior designer of the
house.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, that's so true,
it's very important to explain
at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, that's so true.
It's very important to explainat the beginning.
There is a big educationalpreparation work to say we're
going to work together this way,not that you have the ideas and
I help you with the technicalmatter, because this is not what
we do.
What we do is beyond.
(13:43):
We also, as we discussed aboutfurniture, give them like a bit
of history of why the pieces arethere, what are the reference
behind it, what are thematerials and the technique at
the time.
So it's really a path we dotogether where they learn a lot
(14:03):
from our knowledge.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Do you talk to the
client about this idea of the
genius Loki?
I had heard of it before but Ididn't really fully understand
it until I went and did a littleGoogling and read and
understood sort of the idea ofof it and I actually really love
it because it's something thatwe probably all intrinsically do
(14:30):
as designers.
But we didn't know there wasthis term like the spirit of a
place, and it can mean so manythings.
Obviously you know the historyof it is the, the guardian
spirit of a place, but for us,when we, when we go into a home
or into any kind of space, it'sthe, the essence of it, and so
many things make that up.
(14:51):
I think you touched on you knowjust the light in the place, you
know the history of it and thenwho occupies it now and what
they do and how they use thespace.
That all affects that spirit ofit and that still I think can
connect back to the idea of aguardian spirit, like even
someone who's moved into a newhome.
(15:12):
That has the history.
They then kind of take that on.
But when you're talking to aclient initially, do you, do you
kind of like talk about that oris that kind of just something
that you keep for yourself towork on, or do they sort of get
to think about what that is?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
yeah, I'm a very
transparent person, so you you
know what I, what I feel, quiteimmediately I'm very expressive,
so I'm I've been to, to, to thespace, and it's definitely
related to what was the spacebefore.
(15:51):
I try sometimes not to researchtoo much and to go there and to
have just.
Most of the time when we visit,we visit with the client
because we have access thanks tothem.
It's a few reasons together.
They've been there, usuallyalready before me, but I'm very
(16:27):
transparent about what I feel.
So recently I work on the 20thbuilding in Paris that was owned
by and commissioned by ElenaRubinstein, so she was also an
Australian famous character andshe lived in Paris.
Yes, and in the 20th she wasliving in Paris and she built
one building where there wereartists to do because she was
supporting artists, and she hada house there and my client
bought one piece of the buildingthat used to be the living room
(16:50):
, and so after that, anotherlady lived there.
She was a collector andredesigned part of it in the 80s
, and my client is verysensitive also to design and
story and so it was interestingfor both of us to understand
that those important womenliving there and we discussed
that.
So we were totally aligned onthis.
(17:11):
Some clients are not at allsensitive to what happened
before they buy, like a realestate asset, and then we talk
more about features, that aboutthe design.
I take it in consideration,even though sometimes clients
are not very connected to it,but most of the time they are
(17:34):
Because they buy a place alsobecause it's sort of a crush
they have on some place,especially for your home.
It's definitely going down toyour heart, yes, so true.
When you buy a place.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, I think that
you know it is hard to describe.
You know the spirit of theplace and that's why it's such a
great term.
And you're right, some clientsare in tune with that and some
clients are just not.
Where I'm living now.
The lady lived here for herwhole life and she actually
wrote two books in this house aswell, um, and it's just got
(18:09):
such a feel of writing spirit Ido, but, um, she was like a very
smart lady so hopefully some ofthat will come, but it's just
yeah I'm sure it does but it isI mean.
And also on the flip side, I'vebeen to some clients' homes
where I'm like I can't wait toget out of this place, like
(18:29):
there is not a good vibe here.
I hate that and that can be abit challenging as well.
But yeah, it is a hard thing todeal with, like put into words,
and also sometimes inphotography it's hard to capture
that feeling as well.
So true yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I think that's what
almost makes a good photographer
.
I think if the photographer cancapture yes, genius, low-key of
a place, they are a goodphotographer.
Not everyone can do it.
Yes, I think, as I said before,it's like an intrinsic, it's
like something that it's quiteintuitive to do.
I don't think you can learnthat.
(19:10):
I think you either see thosethings and know how to capture
them or you don't.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, same for
portraits.
I go to a photographer that isable to show somebody's
personality just through aportrait, like a still image,
but you can see a lot of thepersonality of the person.
Yes, true, what's deep inside,and you're right about interiors
(19:40):
.
It's usually two years.
Renovation of hard work then issummarized in some certain
images and and things to to thephotographers, and it's it's
same.
It's a very personalrelationship that we have with
photographers to to have to showour work.
(20:01):
I usually, before shooting,have a big conversation about
what are their hopes and to alsoshow in the final images the
story that was behind andusually years of relationship
with the clients.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It can be kind of a
push and pull with that, because
I've found shooting my projects.
I really love to be able totell the story of the client and
put in some of those personalpieces.
But then sometimes when you'reshooting a project and you want
to get it published, all ofthose lovely personal things are
the first things to get takenout of a shot.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
The personal item.
Yeah, so it's really hard.
Sometimes I'm just like, oh,stuff it.
I just want to tell the storyof the client and I feel like
other clients that are lookingat it might think well, that's
not my taste, but I can see thatthere's a mix of things.
I don't know.
It is a bit of a hard one,isn't it?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Oh, I understand
exactly where you're coming from
.
That can be quite tricky, butyeah.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
But I think it's
really interesting, like's
almost like the spirit of theperson as well, and it just
depends on the project Boosttogether.
Yeah, sometimes you have thisarchitecture that is so amazing
that that's the thing.
And then sometimes you mighthave a new build or something or
just a nice place, but it's theperson and you're like, oh my
(21:18):
gosh, we have to tell your storyLike I don't care if that isn't
and they're injecting theirspirit into that, like if it's
something reasonably new.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
They are starting the
history of that home or that
space.
Yeah, true, by injecting thatinto it and you're kind of
helping them do that, you'rehelping create the genius loggy.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Absolutely, and to
involve them in this part, they
like their interiors even moreand they trust you more.
I agree you said like 80sdesign or some materials that
was never experienced.
If you involve the clients inthe story behind an interior,
then we would go together onthis way of lots of surprises
(21:59):
and adventures.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Oh, I agree.
And it's just so much more funand so much more easy, easier,
when, yeah, you can bring in astory like I have these clients
and they lived in New York, sohe really, and he was American,
so he really identified withthat.
So, anyway, we wove that storyinto their space, into their
(22:20):
space and when they can say,this is a light fitting here,
it's actually made in Brooklyn,blah, blah, blah, like they're
just so connected to it and it'sjust so wonderful, it's more
than what it looks like.
It has.
That connection and guess what,the invoices get paid and
everything starts to happen alot easier.
So if you're sort of fightingwith it, you have to.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And also I realized
for pieces that we make for
clients, they really need tounderstand how is it made yes
it's crafted by hand.
where was it made?
How long did it take all theprocesses for?
Let's take an example of of awood table that, okay, this is
michael, he's making your tableand he works by hand and he put
(23:08):
a layer of this varnish and thisveneer and etc.
Then people can understand,first the delay, definitely the
price, because it's handmade andit's precious materials and
they are sourced in a very cleanway, respecting the environment
, and also they are very happyto share it with their guests as
(23:29):
well.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah they love the
story.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right Happy to share
the stories and to live with the
pieces.
I say, yeah, you can find inany shop a cheaper table, but
this table will be yours.
This table, you will live withit.
If it's damaged you can repairit because it's natural material
.
We can always send it back tothe workshop that is next door
(23:52):
and not at the other side of theworld.
Yeah, you've got Michael'sphone number, you get Michael's
phone number and also you cangive it to your children after
all, because it's a valuableobject.
This is the thing right, it'smore expensive first, but it
lasts longer and it's reallyyours.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It becomes a
sustainability issue as well.
When you have a story behind anobject, you are way less likely
to go okay, this is hardrubbish.
I'm just going to give thisaway.
I'm going to put it on.
In Australia, it's marketplacewhere we sell stuff that's, you
know, just that we want to getrid of.
That doesn't happen when you'reinvested in how something's
(24:32):
made and brought together andwhat the materials are and where
it's from.
All of those things.
So it becomes like it's almost akind of a responsibility thing
as well, when you can connectthat directly back to
sustainability for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And plus I think
Michael would get hurt feelings
if he saw his table onMarketplace.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Poor Michael we won't
tell him yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I think that is like
the definition of luxury, though
, when you know the name of theperson that's made your pieces
like that is just so incredible.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
It is but that
doesn't necessarily I mean.
Obviously there is a costinvolved in handmade pieces that
are made by someone like acraftsman, but it doesn't mean
exorbitant amounts it just meansthat you're like you know it
could be just your local person,that you know that's a joiner
in your area or in your state,um, or you know just local right
(25:28):
, and that doesn't have to meanlike ridiculous amounts of money
.
The luxury is the privilege ofknowing who had their hands on
this piece and crafted it foryou.
Like I love that you're right.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And also patience,
because it's not okay you click
in and the day after it's inyour room.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
That's a challenge
right.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That would be yours,
yes, yes.
And also I try in my interiorsand also my furniture work to do
something very textured,related to the material that
people then, when they have itin their room and I do that
myself all the time I touch myfurniture I like to put my hands
on it, I get it.
I want to have a relationshipto the material because today
(26:13):
our life is so digital, soabstract, so unreal that we need
to have grounded experience.
And I think the objects thatyou live in and we know that
since the pandemic thatinteriors have been more and
more important to people Indeedthe relationship to the
(26:35):
materials.
That's why I always use naturalmaterials and I can work on the
texture.
The tactile experience is soimportant.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Couldn't agree more,
Sophie.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And it's not
something that you sometimes see
on pictures.
So I try also to write aconversation with the
photographer to say look closerto this texture, Try to give the
impression of touch to thepeople who look at this picture.
I love that, because to me itwas a hard work, also to yeah to
show this material, if it'ssoft, if it's like I work a lot
(27:11):
with in ceramics, in wood or orsome textures in plaster.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I really want people
to have a feeling of touch, even
when they look at pictures well, that is so true, because those
pieces that you just released,it's that material, those
juxtaposition of that roughtexture.
Are they the candle holdersthat you did?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yes, I mean, in many
of my pieces there are like
sorts of a contrast and I likeparadox of rough materials with
precious materials.
So I've done some mirrors inplaster with inlays of rust.
I've done some glassworks withinlays of minerals that are
precious, but then the glass iscompletely organic and with a
(27:57):
random shape.
There's some candle holdersthat are in minerals and with
brass, and the minerals arequite rough or they can be some
sort of very raw materials withvery sharp lines so it creates a
contrast and each of them comesdifferently because every
(28:19):
mineral is unique and forceramic the textures also.
you see some ceramics behind me.
The textures are reallyimportant.
They are handmade so every timethey come different, they are
cooked and then after the otherare made.
So I like that people feel thatitems can be unique because
they are handmade and we areunique as well, because we are
(28:41):
all different from each other.
And you can add to items andinteriors if you approach that
in this way of getting to feelthem.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So true.
Well, you know what I findsometimes with clients here and
I don't know if it's the same inFrance but clients want
perfection.
They want a stone benchtop thatwill never stain.
They want, you know, wallcarpets that don't tuft.
They want a wood grain that'slike that one, but not like that
(29:12):
one.
Is that an approach?
Do people in France have abetter understanding?
Do you think of those naturalimperfections being part of the
beauty?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I think it's because
of the perfection of the images
now that are in magazines, onsocial networks.
So I try to educate also myclients when we have the
discussion during the projectand say you know, it's exactly
like going to the hairdresserand say I want to look like Kate
Moss.
It's not possible because allthe images that you see in
(29:44):
magazines and we know because wedo completely restyled,
completely post-produced, andit's not reality.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's not real life.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And also the beauty
of material is when they age.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
So you have to.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
You really have to
love the perfection, because the
beauty of nature marble isabout imperfection.
It's about water that went intostones centuries ago and that
beauty.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
I know.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
So ember is an
imperfection because it just
fossilized the trees you knowelements, so beauty most of the
time comes from imperfection.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I feel like that's a
really great example to use,
even to explain to clients.
I agree with Lauren over here.
I think my theory behind it isthat in Europe there's age, so
there's imperfection from age,so you see it all the time and
you just accept and understandthat as part of your aesthetic.
(30:52):
In Australia there's less ofthat, so there's a lot of
newness.
So when you have a lot ofnewness you notice the
imperfections so much more andyou see them as almost a
negative, not a positive,whereas I think if you kind of
teach the client that some ofthose best things, those
(31:13):
beautiful materials and whythey're beautiful, is because
they're actually imperfect.
They're not perfect at all.
They've been created over timeand that's what creates that
beautiful imperfection, that iswhat they love.
I think maybe teaching themthat is a really good kind of
way to explain why theimperfection actually to embrace
it.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
You have beautiful
nature.
So you can also relate to andsay look, nature is beautiful
because it's not geometric andneat look.
Nature is beautiful becauseit's not geometric and neat,
it's beautiful because of theperfection of what elements are
brought there.
(31:57):
And having a house, verywabi-sabi, is also trying to
reproduce this imperfection ofnature, this concept, this
Japanese concept of what ishaving Me.
I'm interested also in kintsugiabout that repaired objects are
more beautiful than non-brokenobjects.
Yes, that part of the historyof the object is making it more
interesting and more beautifuland more consistent, and I think
(32:18):
it's the same with people.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
It is People who are
just like perfect.
Are robots so cute?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And we will be
surrounded by robots soon.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
So it's important
that we are imperfection.
Imperfection will become luxury.
If everything becomes verydigital right, and perfect and
over-engineered is probably agood way to put it.
Then imperfections will becomethe new luxury.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Absolutely, and even
I keep this gimmick yeah, it's a
good way to explain it toclients and sometimes what I'll
do, like the whole marblestaining conversation try to
romanticize it and I'll say youknow, have you ever been to
paris and been to a littlebistro and the the marble of the
(33:02):
countertop and it's not covered, it's like used, it's beautiful
, like that's just part of lifeand living, but it's a hard
thing to sell, but we try.
And I was also thinking about,you know, talking about the
spirit of a place and putting itinto.
I guess for me, when I hearthat term, you know, in
(33:26):
Australia, when we talk about,maybe, the spirit of a place, it
could almost lean into talkingabout First Nations people.
And you know, we might not havelike hundreds and hundreds of
years of built, you knowarchitecture, but you know
Australia has the oldestcontinuous living culture in the
whole world, which is somethingreally beautiful to celebrate.
(33:46):
Um, so it's, it's just aninteresting different take on it
.
You know it's, yeah, australiais a new country, but you know
it's very, very old in someother ways as well true, we
should be leaning into thatprobably a lot more yeah, I
think we might be starting to um, but yeah, it's a really, it's
a really interesting.
Yeah, just point um when I wasand I guess, like respecting
(34:10):
history and the context, youknow, um, that's what I found
researching the book.
And in australia we love toknock down old buildings.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Well, some of us love
to.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Well, yeah.
I mean and to find old buildingas well, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Well, that's the
thing too.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
But even I feel, like
you know mid-century houses,
like there's somethingdefinitely worthy in those
buildings and they're not thatold.
But I just feel like thatapproach in France, do you think
that's different?
Do you think there is a lotmore respect for old buildings
and what is old in Francecompared to….
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yes, we also have.
Like, we have administrationsfor that.
Like monuments and historicalbuildings are protected and
definitely we renovate much morethan we build.
Sure, Most of the architectsare working on renovation in
(35:16):
cities like Paris or big cities,and I in Italy and I still have
my connection with the studiothere that in Italy it's even
more than in France that reallypreserving what's in place is
the main activity of thearchitecture and interiors
industry.
(35:39):
Carpenters are extremely carefulbecause they learn by
renovating historical buildingshistorical, like I mean
historical furniture and when Igo to them to ask them to do
contemporary, they are most ofthe time extremely enthusiastic
because they have done this.
Okay, murano glass techniqueforever.
(35:59):
Or this gold leaf restorationforever.
And when I come and I say withgold leaf, uh, molding,
restoration forever.
And when I come and I say withgold leaf, let's do kintsugi,
they are like okay, it's fun,let's try.
I know we don't understand whyyou want to do that.
We never know that, but we andthat and that's why I'm
extremely lucky to have infrance and italy these kids that
(36:22):
are still alive because of therestoration business that is
going on Right, and also it'sfull of knowledge for us to look
at historical techniques andnot dare to say what's in the
past is not, it's old-fashioned.
I think what was relevant in thepast, what could be the
(36:43):
equivalent today of thistechnique, for example, I love
Jean-Michel Franck in the 30sand he was a total punk at the
time.
He was destroying the moldingsand all the traditional decors
and said we have to go minimal.
So can you imagine forextremely bourgeois like the
Noir and the Rubinstein and allthose people, it was a big shock
(37:08):
.
And even Jean Cocteau said whenyou see someone that has an
entire by Jean-Michel Franck,you think it just got robbed,
that it's so minimal.
I haven't heard that before.
And yes, and in my opiniontoday I haven't heard that
before.
And yes, and in my opiniontoday we have to understand.
(37:28):
What Jean-Michel Franck meantat the time is not to do
Jean-Michel Franck today.
It's to be the punk of todaywith the bourgeois codes and
trying to be disruptive.
And I'm not saying I do thatnow, but that's my ambition to
try to be really disruptive, butby understanding the codes.
So when my interior is veryclassic, it's classic with
(37:51):
moldings, but I try to disruptby keeping the symmetry and the
general scheme and organizationof classical places but to put
very contemporary materials,contemporary art, involving my
community of creative people oftoday.
So it's probably different inAustralia that you have less
(38:15):
historical places, but I thinkyou should relate also to your
history.
That is different with nativepeople.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
It's sort of about
evolution, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, but evolution
always has the roots of what
happened before.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yes, you need to
understand it.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It's not to erase.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yes, exactly, and
there's always that fine line
and I do feel like, as Laurensaid, I think in Australia there
is a bit of an issue of erasure.
It's like if we say heritage inAustralia, we're thinking you
know 30s, 40s, maybe 50s, andthen it kind of slows right down
(38:55):
where people are missing thefact that the 60s buildings, 70s
buildings, 80s buildings,probably 90s buildings that also
need to be protected andrespected, and that I don't
think is happening.
It's like there's kind of likethis full stop of what's
considered to be heritage andthen, oh, that's new, but it's
not new.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, I would even
say Art Deco is where we're
knocking it down.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Art Deco buildings,
which is sad.
Oh, no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
I really liked
reading on your website that
you're inspired by the age ofEnlightenment and contemporary
art, and I'm so curious.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
It just sounds like a
movie to me.
Age of Enlightenment.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Is that a movie?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, it could be,
I'm sure it is.
It could be.
Yeah, yeah, peter Greenaway dida movie about one architect of
the Enlightenment.
It's called the Belly of theArchitect.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Oh, I'm going to
watch that now.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yes, it's an 80s
movie, but it's about the era of
Enlightenment, so it's theFrench Revolution, so end of
18th century, and at the timethere were extremely radical
architects called Boulay and LeDoubs and they were doing very
abstract shapes inspired byactually antique buildings, by
(40:09):
Roman and Greek temples, but invery contemporary shapes.
And it was a moment of crisis.
We were trying to cut the headof our kings and to say, okay,
there are no more more differentlayers of society and not an
aristocrat and bourgeoisie haveto be shakedown.
(40:31):
And so it was a moment ofcrisis, of course, for
architecture, because definitelythe buildings are commissioned
by rich aristocrats, thebourgeoisie and the aristocrat
classes.
So architects didn't have muchwork at the time, so they were
designing a lot of paper andalso this era is called paper
architecture.
(40:53):
They were designing extremelycrazy buildings and that were
never built because theycouldn't need anymore any hotel
particuliers, because there wereno commissions by the rich
classes, because they werefighting for their rights at the
time yeah, they were locked injail cells and so the production
(41:13):
of the drawings are extremelyinteresting, and I sometimes dig
in there or be inspired for mywork, because I think we are
also now in the crisis ofspending Because of
sustainability because, ofrecession, we have to be more
creative in the design than ever, and we have new tools that are
(41:37):
technology, 3d drawings.
Now we have artificialintelligence, so I think we are
also in this time of let's thinkabout what we put out in the
world, and those radical shapesare extremely interesting too.
I should look at one of thevase here.
It's a pure columns, and for meit's inspired either by
(42:01):
primitive tribal artifacts andby this 18th century
Enlightenment era architecture,and one of my items that I have
designed for a perfume brand iscalled the Olfactory Column.
This is inspired by Ludo.
What is the infinite brokencolumn?
The infinite broken columns?
(42:23):
Yeah, to me all theseinfluences.
I try to put them in my worktoday, but they are not direct
references.
I'm not doing like exactly the30s copycat of something,
because I don't see the point.
I mean, the architects of the30s and 40s were very skeptical
and I prefer to but also, itdoesn't mean that it's exactly
relevant now.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
You can take that
inspiration and and rethink it,
for now, right, it's still.
There's relevance in um.
You know, obviously history hasa tendency to repeat itself.
Um and the age of enlightenment, you know, a lot of it was to
do with individualism, wasn't it?
So there's a lot of kind oflike um pushing the boundaries
and like pushing back againstauthority, which is kind of
(43:06):
relevant at the moment.
But I love how that's kind ofinforming your ideas.
But, yeah, that don't have tobe copies of that.
It's like your owninterpretation, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
yes, yeah, it was
philosophical reflection at the
time about authority and aboutwhat is it to be a human, what
is it to to be able to think byyourself?
Yes, and I think, in thetechnological era that we are,
it's very important to thinkabout that as well.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's kind of like the
I love that those themes become
relevant.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Sorry, Lauren.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well, I was just
going to say it's kind of like
the spirit of the era.
So we've sort of talked aboutthe spirit of the place, the
spirit of the person and thespirit of an era.
That's so true, it's reallycool, it's all about the spirit
yeah that's what German peoplecall the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yes that's exactly it
, the spirit of the times, you
know, and what's the zeitgeistin our days?
Like, just well, yeah, you haveto feel what's going on.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And to understand
what's going on, you have to
understand the past.
Yes, be very, very focused onwhat's now and what's next.
And sometimes in my interiorsor my design, I experience
things.
Sometimes they fail, it's okay,but I try to experience and not
just do what was already donebefore, because it's just being
(44:23):
a composer where you can playperfectly with art but you are
not Daft Punk.
You know, some people cancreate new music and that's
what's relevant in the future.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
It's what you create
now that is new and you know
there's no creating somethingnew without a few failures along
the way, like that's justinnovation, so oh, that's so
cool.
Risk yeah, you've got to takethose risks and you know you've
got to have that space and thattime for creativity, which?
Speaker 2 (44:54):
brings me to my next
question.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
So we are going to
have this podcast on youtube as
well and we can flash up someimages so people can see what
we're talking about.
And these next questions we'regoing to pop onto our YouTube
channel so for everybodylistening on the podcast.
Thank you, guys, so much.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
And we'll see you
over on YouTube, thank you.