November 5, 2024 • 56 mins
Picture this: a digital platform born in 2008 transforming into a vibrant print magazine in 2024. That's the incredible journey of Lucy Feagins and The Design Files. Join us as Lucy shares the story of how The Design Files emerged as a beacon of inspiration during times of uncertainty and how it has evolved within the ever-shifting design media landscape. From unforgettable open houses to collaborative experiences at Milan Design Week, this episode reflects on the deep connections within the design community that continue to fuel her passion for creating, capturing joyful lived-in spaces and showcasing the best in local designs.
The Design Files announce the launch of their very first print magazine, Issue 01 now available. This new venture showcases diverse Australian homes, from charming mid-century abodes to cozy rented apartments, all while balancing aspiration with authenticity. Their cover story on Missy Higgins' house is a testament in commitment to inspire and uplift, so every reader feels good about their own space. This episode also navigates the complex dynamics of digital versus print publications, underscoring the enduring prestige of print media and its unique ability to enhance brand credibility in a digital-dominated era.
As The Design Files navigates the future of home magazine publishing, they emphasise authentic storytelling and the evolution of the industry. With insights from Lucy & speaking of her editor Bea Taylor and their dynamic team, she delves into the strategies and challenges of launching a print magazine as part of a multifaceted media approach. We discuss the resurgence of niche titles and the potential for new publications to fill the gaps left by traditional print media closures, all while prioritising reader-driven content. We conclude with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the Wurundjeri people, honouring their legacy and recognising the importance of creating on their unceded land.
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast by friends and fellowdesigners.
Me, lauren Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And me, Brie Banfield , and with some amazing guests
along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We're here to break down everything from current
trends to timeless style.
And with a shared passion forjoyful, colour-filled and
lived-in spaces, we're reallyexcited to share our insights
and inspiration with you and ifyou would love to dive in a
little bit deeper, I've got acourse called the style studies
essentials where I can help youcreate your own dream home and,
(00:36):
for any designers listening, Ican also help you too with your
business, marketing, fees,process, all the things, and
there is a link down there inthe show notes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yes, I've been part of the Design Society and it's
quite fabulous.
You can also find in the shownotes a link to sign up to be
notified when I release mypre-selected furniture
collections and also some shortcourses on styling and trends so
cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Brie Love it.
So in this conversation, LucyFagans reflects on the Design
Files journey from its 2008launch to the recent print
magazine debut.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
She discusses that shift from digital to print and
the evolving design medialandscape and that importance of
authentic niche storytelling inreaching today's audiences.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And if you want to get a more visual experience of
this podcast, you can jump ontoYouTube and we will be sharing
some imagery and at the endthere is a little treat for you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, some bonus content from our guests where we
ask them really hard personalquestions, that some of the
things you may never have heardbefore about them.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So good Shall we dive in Brie, let's get going.
So I was trying to remember thefirst time I came across Lucy
in the design files and I thinkit was like oh my gosh, when did
the design file start?
Was it 2008?
Yes, 2008.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So I think, because I remember I'd just come back
from a year or so in London andI was just like it was GFC, it
was like a bit doom and gloomkind of vibe, and then I don't
even know, you know, you'd neverknow how you go down this kind
of rabbit hole.
But then, following the designfiles and I was working in an
office and it was anarchitectural office, it was a
(02:26):
little bit boring, sorry.
And then I would like get inearly, get my coffee, and the
first thing I would do is gointo the design files and read
my.
It was like a little hit ofinspiration that you needed in
your day, yeah, yeah.
And then I think when I firstmet you I think it was at one of
the open houses- yeah, I thinkit was the one um on.
(02:49):
Gertrude Street yeah, just off,gertrude.
Street and we all were on ourlunch break and we went in and
it was so exciting.
It was so cool like everyonewas there.
There was, like these, umshelves filled with all these
beautiful colourful objects.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That was the era of fluoro everything.
It was like fluoro pink andthose Miranda Scotcher artworks
in the fluoro frames.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It was in vibe at the time.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
It was such a vibe and they were always like bright
, pink or bright yellow.
Fluoro.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, it was a time, yeah, it was such a good time.
And then, yeah, it would bejust like oh, wednesday, what's
the house going to be featuredLike?
I was like really in it.
Oh, you also joined one.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That was our first ever open house event, so you
must have been there, you knowright from very early days, so
thank you for being you know afan for all this time I'm such a
fan.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I feel like so.
Did you say 2008?
I think it must have been thenwhen I first started interacting
with the design files like as ablog.
Right, yeah, because that's kindof how it started.
Yeah, yeah, and I won a prize.
Oh, what did you win?
I won.
It was one of those.
You know, the timber rainbowsthe colourful.
(04:06):
It was one of those.
You know, the timber rainbowsthe colorful ones, like the
original ones that were made bythe melbourne yes, um, craft.
I can't even think of the brandI know, I wish I could remember
the same brand that does thetrams.
Now, is it that brand?
I don't know anyway I wish Icould remember I won, like it
was quite big and it was soexciting, and so that's the
first interaction I ever hadwith the design files.
Was winning, winning?
Um yeah, the, the colorfulrainbow, which is probably still
(04:28):
somewhere, oh.
I love garage packed up andthen we didn't actually, and
then obviously we would haveknown of each other for a long
time, just being in the industry, but we didn't actually meet.
Do you remember it was an NGVevent?
Yeah, and it wasn't probablyuntil so.
It would have been pre-covid, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah but like surely I met you before, that time it
was this weird thing where weboth went.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Actually we've never met in person.
Oh, it would have been.
What about milan?
No, that was after that, so itwas before milan that we met.
Yeah, milan was 2016, I thinkyou went.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I knew I should have revisited these days before I
sat down here.
I know this was like a fewyears ago.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Well, I went 2017 and it was before that, and I think
you mentioned, oh, you wentafter that when you went.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So it was the year after Maybe.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, so weird isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
For those listening that have no idea what we're
talking about, lucy did a serieswhere she went to Milan and
Dulux, I guess, sponsored thatand then David Flack was sort of
like I guess little storiesaround different people and what
they do in Milan, you and whatyou got up to, david Flack from
Flack Studio and then myself andAndrea Lucina Orr from Dulux as
(05:43):
the trend podcasters.
It was a really cool series.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I loved that.
It was so fun.
I remember following along.
I'm like Phil, we've got to gonext year.
I know it was sort of.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I mean, milan has become even bigger in everyone's
imagination.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Now I feel like now more people go and it's a big
hike for people to go from.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Melbourne to Milan, but there are people that go
every year and I feel like thatwas, yeah, just the start of it
for me.
But I mean, I don't actually goto Milan every year.
I'm not good like that.
I know some people you do, yeah, but to be honest, for us we've
sort of come to a differentplace where we feel our audience
are much more engaged withlocal design, Australian design
and so even though we love itand our clients love it and a
(06:26):
certain subset of our audiencelove it.
I think the thing about Milan is, you know it very much is an
industry.
It's about the design industryand I think we've realized over
time that our audience is prettymuch about 80% the general
public design enthusiasts andyou, you know maybe renovators
and you know house proud people,and it's about 20 percent
(06:47):
design industry, so architectsand designers and stylists and
stuff.
So that's why milan for us is asometimes thing, but it's not.
It's not something I feel, um,we need to do every year, but I
do still get the fomo when I seebrie there in her amazing
outfits, pounding the pavementTrue.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It is fun, but I totally get that.
I think it is probably more ofan interest from the design
industry perspective and someconsumers will obviously love it
, but it's not for everyone.
I think sometimes it's not asrelatable, maybe just to the
average consumer who's?
Interested in design.
Maybe that's just notnecessarily what they're into,
(07:27):
but we did want to just check inwith you too, Lucy.
Like what have you been up to?
Tell us what's new for you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well, since you asked , it's a pretty exciting time
for us because we have justreleased our first print
magazine Very exciting.
So it's at the exciting timefor us because we have just
released our first printmagazine.
Very exciting.
So it's at the printers as wespeak.
I wish I had a physical copy toshow you, but it will be in
stores on October the 12th.
I'm not sure when this isreleased, but I think, yeah,
(08:00):
it'll be out soon and I'll bevery relieved to see the real,
you know, the fruits of all ourwork.
But, yeah, it's a big leap forus going to print.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So when you say in stores, which stores?
Okay, good question.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So obviously we are selling it online, so you can
just buy it on our website, butwe also have a.
Really we've had a really greatresponse from retailers, mainly
good booksellers.
So, Readings is taking it theAvenue Bookstore Happy Valley.
It's going to be the NGVBookstore.
So all our stockists are listedon the website.
But yeah, we've got about 35stockists.
(08:37):
Oh wow, that's pretty good.
Yeah, mainly Melbourne, and thenyou know we'd love a few more
in other other states, but we dohave a few in every state.
So, yeah, it's actually beenvery encouraging because, you
know, like people look at designfiles and they think, oh, you
know, they've got all thesefollowers they've got.
You know, they don't have toworry about promoting things,
but we still, for us, this is avery new you know, venture and
(09:01):
we definitely have been very youknow know a bit nervous about
how it's going to be receivedand obviously we want it to be a
success.
So it's been very validating tohave some really wonderful
stockers jump on board and saythey'll take some copies and
yeah, get it out there.
Yeah, so you've got thembelieving in you, I guess yeah
exactly, yeah, and we don't takethat for granted at all and,
(09:23):
unlike you guys, I've never donea book, so I feel like this is
a whole new world for us andhaving a physical thing to
actually sell people is, itfeels like a big leap.
Like you know, everything we dois free, like we've.
So I, as you mentioned, startedDesign Files in 2008.
So it's been 16 years of freecontent, all online.
(09:44):
Yeah, so it may not seem likethat big a deal, but to me it
feels like a big deal to saythis is one thing that is a
physical thing that you doactually need to buy and it's a
very different proposition.
So we're excited but a bitnervous.
But yeah, it's been a greatresponse so far.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I cannot wait to see it.
I'm super excited.
I mean, I just love anything ina print media form as well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I will be absolutely having a copy of that on my
coffee table.
Thank you, it just seems like ano-brainer.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think, yeah, from your point of view, you're like,
oh, here's this physicalproduct you can buy, but for us
we're like okay, great, likeyeah, we'll buy that.
I think I've already got minepre-ordered.
Oh, lauren, you guys are sogood On YouTube.
We're going to show like acover.
Yes, but can you describewhat's on the cover?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, well, we're pretty excited because we shot
Missy Higgins' house.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Missy.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Higgins is doing a lot of promo at the moment for
her new album.
Yeah, that's so cool, love her.
I am a child of that era whereMissy was a very big deal in my
you know teenage years.
So yeah, we're pretty pumpedthat Missy's house is on the
cover and obviously we've got abig story on her place in the
mag.
But it's not really that sortof mag where it's like celebrity
houses that was happened to beone.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It just happened to be a really cool house.
It looked like a natural fitfor the design files.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So you know, I think you know, in coming up with sort
of the look and feel of the magand the type of content we were
going to run, we sort of wantedto have, you know, be true to
our general ethos, which is verymuch showing the diversity of
the houses we live in inAustralia.
So there is a bit ofmid-century in there, there's a
(11:31):
couple of really amazingarchitectural homes, but
likewise there's apartments,there's a rented home, there's.
You know, there's a real mixand we feel like that's our
differentiator and that's whatwe feel we do.
Well, and I think when I thinkabout I want to create content
about homes and design thatmakes you feel good when you
(11:51):
read it, when you close themagazine, you're going to feel
good about your own place.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You're not going to feel like you know worse about
how you live at home.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It reflects you rather than you know, makes you
feel like you're not good enough.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's my vibe.
That's so interesting actuallyand I think, yeah, the diversity
it's so appreciated because youcan look through some other
magazines which are reallyhigh-end and it's really fun to
look through, but it's notexactly relatable.
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's thegreat thing with the design
files, you can find something alittle relatable, it's a little
bit more within reach.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, exactly, and I think you know we do need to
strike a balance.
Obviously there's aspiration inthere too, and we do need to
still be providing inspiration,but I just sort of feel like our
unique place in the medialandscape is to, you know,
really show how we live in asort of authentic way, and I
(12:48):
don't want to just sharemultimillion dollar homes every
day of the week.
I feel like that isn't, it'snot a true reflection of how,
you know, australians live intheir homes.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I think the thing that I love about the
design files is that they'relived in.
The houses are lived in, yeah,and I mean that seems like
obviously it's a house thatthey're lived in the houses are
lived in.
Yeah, and I mean that seems likeobviously it's a house yeah but
you do see a lot of housesrepresented in media that are
just so taken out.
Everything of the person istaken out for the photo shoot
(13:18):
and I get it like that's one wayto do it.
Yeah, but I think you know thedesign file strikes that balance
, like obviously it's not a mess.
Yeah, no one wants to see likea messy house, but you can still
see something of the peoplethat live there, so that's
really nice.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
I guess that sort of brings usto our overall topic, which is
the changing landscape ininteriors, in media.
It's a long topic, but I feellike that's where traditional
media has sat right, when it'smore, it's far more aspirational
in terms of I don't know thingsthat maybe do make you feel a
(13:57):
little bit like could I ever getthere, Whereas what you're sort
of representing, or have beenon the design files, is that
more connected interior whereyou could see yourself getting
there.
So it's like a tighter view ofbeing aspirational and not so,
you know, lofty and you knowjust a dream.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
But I feel like that's where.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So traditional print media for interiors has kind of
sat in that space where it's,yeah, the people are sort of
maybe taken out of it, or whenthey're included, it's still
very stylised.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I guess the thing which is sad is that Inside Out
magazine that's just folded.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So I think that did do that quite well.
It would put people in thereand real living before that, and
I loved real living as well.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But that's interesting because you know,
with the design files startingas a digital publication, you've
almost totally flipped it,because a lot of these
traditional print publicationsstart as print and then they're
trying to navigate their wayonline, and some do it way
better than others.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I don't know that any of them do it super well.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
if I'm being honest, I think some of those websites
are.
I think some of theinternational ones maybe do it
pretty well like Architectural.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Digest.
Is there one that you think ofthat does digital really well?
That was traditional and hasmoved into that.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
No, well, I think overseas, yes, and I think in
Australia, I must admit.
I mean, I don't like to talkabout other publications but I'm
really sad that Inside Out'sclosing this month and.
I must say it was a bit of anervous, a scary one, when I
heard that, because we areliterally launching a magazine
in the same month that they'refolding, and I remember when
Inside Out was my favorite mag,when Karen McCartney was at the
(15:41):
helm, the best.
I'm talking 12 or more yearsago.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And so it started out as a very different mag.
But I think, if I couldpinpoint where I think maybe
they went a little wrong was,you know, amalgamating a lot of
brands under the Homes to Lovewebsite.
Yes, because what I feel andthis is my personal rationale
for launching a print magazinein a climate where a lot of
print magazines are folding myrationale for it is you know,
(16:09):
it's really all about yourunique brand in a very cluttered
media landscape.
So by that I mean, you know,there are so many voices now,
there's so many publications,and even influencers are also
many sort of publications intheir own way.
So there's so much content youcould be consuming in this space
(16:31):
and I think you really need todouble down on your unique
proposition in this clutteredspace and on your unique brand.
And the problem with Homes toLove is it brought a lot of
brands under one umbrella.
And then it didn't really giveyou know, inside out its own
online presence, which is ashame because I think you know
that could have been built.
(16:51):
So that's.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think the good news is and I could be wrong,
because this is just all youknow what I hear is that it
wasn't necessarily doing thatbadly.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
As a magazine sales-wise.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And there were other reasons behind it, yeah, which I
won't go into because I don'treally know for sure, but that's
that's what I'm hearing is thatit's not necessarily that it
took a big dive and had to gobecause it wasn't profitable
it's probably more in.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
In situations like that, where one uh publisher
owns a number of magazines, theysort of become their own
competitor.
So meaning they're sellingadvertising across multiple
magazines and they probably justlook at it and go well, we can
just sell the same advertisingto two titles and not spread it
across four or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So it does.
So it's just looking at thatprofitability from a different
way.
How can we make it moreprofitable even though it was
maybe doing okay?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Exactly, exactly.
So I don't know, it is sad tosee titles like that close and
real living before it, but Ifeel like for us it's a very
different strategy and rationalebehind doing the magazine.
So, you know, the bulk of ouraudience will always be online.
That's where the big reach isfor us and always will be.
(18:08):
But we feel the magazine isgoing to hopefully engage our
you know, our biggest fans, likeyou guys.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The ones that have bought it on pre-order on the
first day.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How many copies?
How many copies did you order?
Should I buy more?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Okay, I'll buy more.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Lauren, our number one fan.
But I think for us it's aboutadding this extra thing.
It's not going to take awayfrom what's happening online and
it's you know online will reachmore people, but the magazine's
about doubling down on ourbrand, sort of elevating design
files, maybe a little bit interms of credibility, because I
(18:47):
think you know we have beenaround for 16 years, we do know
our stuff.
But I think if you're onlyonline, it can be easy to I
don't know be somewhat likeperceived as a less valuable
resource somehow.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's about perception, isn't it funny?
And also it's free, as you sortof said before.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, but I feel like it's so fascinating that whole
perception, even say, as adesigner, to have your project
in print still, and maybe thisis changing, maybe this is a
generational thing as well wouldstill be a far bigger deal,
even though that magazine maynot have the same reach, for
(19:25):
instance.
Bigger deal even though thatmagazine may not have the same
reach, for instance, or audience, as say, the design files, or
an online um media where youknow you're going to actually
get more people see it, but it'sstill so much I don't know.
There's still this kind of likepride in absolutely well it's.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
It's about, um, uh, rarity.
Do you know what I mean?
Like on, like that.
We find that you know it's hardfor us to secure an
architectural project for designfiles before it's been in print
, because all the architectswant their projects to be in
print first, and so I think itwill enable us to maybe get some
different projects you knowfirst and not have to wait for
it to be in magazines.
(20:01):
So there is definitely thatfeeling, I think, of just the
rarity of it, like, at the endof the day, if we're publishing
15 stories a week online, it'sbecoming less rare to be
featured on the design files,whereas to be featured in the
magazine is sort of.
Yeah, it has, I guess, aperceived value that is higher
than being featured in thisendless stream of content that
(20:23):
is quite prolific.
Now, you know the websiteitself, so true, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And when you're looking at, I guess, print
versus online, I'm reallycurious.
Is there a generational thing?
Who's reading print as opposedto digital?
Is it the same audience, like?
I don't even really know.
I've tried to think about thisand whether or not, maybe maybe
there's definitely like an olderaudience who prefers to have
(20:48):
like I know people who like evenstill print things out because
they prefer to hold it and readit.
Whereas I am quite a digitalperson and maybe that's a bit
different for my generation thanthe average person my age who
would much prefer to havesomething they can hold or read
with their coffee, whereas Iliterally nearly all my
(21:08):
magazines.
Now it's rare that I buy anactual magazine.
They're all on my iPad, it'sall Zinio, really yeah.
Yeah, but I might be.
I'm probably not the averageconsumer.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
No, I feel like, because you're in the industry,
you have a different you knowway of approaching, because,
also, you know, don't you feelwhen you read a design magazine,
it also feels a bit like work.
Even though you enjoy it, ithas a research element to it and
you feel like you've got to bethorough and get all your issues
on time when they come out andyou can't just yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I have two different modes.
So I'll have a mode where andI'll often do this say on the
weekend, where I get out theiPad, have the coffee or the
breakfast or whatever it is, orthe wine, and then I just go
into like enjoy it mode and Iflick through and I try and like
absorb it and I just as me andmy point of view, and then I
(21:59):
have a mode where I'm likeliterally churning through it
from a work point of view.
So I have two different modeswhen I do it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Okay, that's interesting.
Well, that's funny because youreading magazines, print
magazines digitally.
Does that mean that the DesignFiles magazine is going to go
digital?
Well, you know what?
Next step?
Who knows A few?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
people have asked about that.
It's funny.
And we are doing that to startwith.
It won't be on Zinio, at leastnot initially, because we just
really want people to buy it.
And I don't want it to beonline, but I think this is a
good thing.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So I would go absolutely.
I would still need a copy ofthat.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I would enjoy it because it is a physical copy.
It's just that I don't, and Isubscribe to a lot of magazines,
so there's that too.
I just don't buy all of them.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It would have to be something unique and special and
kind of that's good, actually,that you're not doing a digital
copy at least yet, because Ithink, yeah, you need people to
enjoy it, as it is intended tobe first I suppose, yeah, I
think we just really want to getit out there and encourage
people to get the print copy,and it's like there is so much
Design Files, content onlinethat you, you know there's no
(23:05):
shortage if you want to engagewith us in that way.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
What about the different types of stories like
that you would write, comparedto digital versus print?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, Well, that's sort of one of the most exciting
things, because you know,what's interesting about running
an online publication is,whether you like it or not, you
are always.
Everything becomes quite datadriven, and by that I mean we
know what stories and whatheadlines and what images get
the most clicks.
And even if you're only, youknow, an influencer, like you
(23:36):
are, you know, I think you cantell when you're posting
something online on Instagramwhat performs well and what
doesn't, and then thatinevitably sort of-.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Starts to shape the content Exactly Detects what you
post in the future.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So even though we try not to be too swayed by that,
at the end of the day, you knowwhen a story comes across our
desk, if a pitch comes in, we'llgo well, that's not going to
get any clicks, even if we loveit.
It's like that photo, likereally boring stuff, like really
dark photos, like I love thathouse but we'd have to reshoot
it.
Those photos can't run, Eventhough we like them.
They're really moody andbeautiful.
That's going to get no clicksand we just know that and it's
(24:13):
unfortunate.
So I think what we're reallyenjoying by putting together
content for the magazine is thisidea of actually we can't.
We will have stats on how wellthis issue goes but I don't know
which stories in the magazineare going to be the ones people
pour over versus the ones thatthey might just flick over more
quickly, or the ones they readfrom word to word rather than
(24:37):
just flicking, and I thinkthere's something quite freeing
in that.
Editorially to sort of curatean issue and go.
We're going to be freed up fromthe numbers here.
We're going to fill a magazinewith stories so exciting.
Yeah, that we're excited aboutand we really want people to
love them.
But equally we can put storiesin there that are probably a bit
longer a bit, you know a bitmore.
(24:59):
There's a couple of stories inthere that have a little bit
more substance to them that weprobably wouldn't get a huge
amount of clicks online, buthopefully in the magazine people
can sit with them a bit longerand engage with them in a
different way.
So we really like the idea ofhaving this one vehicle where we
can put slightly longer formcontent, slightly more
meaningful content alongside alot of gorgeous homes and not
(25:22):
feel like we're failing if it'snot a high rating story.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's so interesting too.
I feel like it's so importantto have that kind of content
that isn't analysed to deathabout what's going to sell or be
clicked on, because whathappens is and I've had these
conversations with magazineeditors where they'll have
pressure from the publisher, whoobviously the idea is to sell
(25:49):
magazines Like this is the worldwe live in, right, we've all
got to make money from what wedo, even if we love what we do,
and so they get this pressurewhere they go.
You know blue doors of a thingthat everybody wants.
And so it sort of becomes almostself perpetuating right so if
we're all posting blue doors,where's the new content?
(26:10):
Where's the new ideas?
What are we being inspired by?
We can't keep just seeing thesame stuff because that's what
sells Like.
You've got to kind of be ableto be in a space where you can
put other stuff out there andsee what happens, right
Otherwise we're kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It's an echo chamber yeah, and I think that's where
magazines uh, you know, that'swhy, when we engage magazines,
we do have a slightly differentfeeling in terms of what we take
away from them, because they'renot, um, predetermined by an
algorithm, you know it's, it'ssomething that we're sort of um,
you can sort of step intoanother world and really give
(26:44):
yourself over to the editors ofthat magazine and take that hour
of your time to be in acompletely other realm.
That isn't sort of, you know,data driven and algorithm driven
, maybe a bit slower.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I guess If you've got a print mag, you're more likely
to kind of take your time,whereas I feel like when I'm
swiping or scrolling, I'mprobably going to go a lot
faster, right, yeah, and notspend as much time on the page
as you do with something inprint.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, and I think it's nice when you're reading a
story in a magazine, you knowthere might be a shot of the
door.
And then there's another shotthat looks back at the door.
It's almost like you can walkyour way through the house, yeah
, you know you can connect thedots and sort of work.
I just love doing that.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Whereas online it's just yeah, it is too quick, you
can't really dive right into aproject.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Well, you can sort of on one screen whether it's your
laptop or a desktop or a phoneyou sort of are engaging with
one image at a time.
Really, you don't have thatexperience of seeing images side
by side and sort of being ableto sort of curate that
experience for your reader.
So, yeah, I mean we'll see.
This issue isn't out yet.
Hopefully it does all thethings that we're, you know,
aiming for it to do.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Oh, I kind of love that you do it.
So you're doing two issues ayear.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, we're just starting with two, so it'll be
October and April.
So it's sort of like a summerissue and a winter issue
initially and we'll just gaugehow it goes.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
But yeah, that feels manageable to us for now Is it
bigger, like is it a fattermagazine, because it's.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, it's slightly fatter than Kind of like a good
chunky book?
Yeah, yeah, to be honest, Idon't know, because we don't
have the physical copy back yet,but we've printed.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
we've sort of got mock-ups in our office, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
But it's 176 pages and there are ads in it, but
there are not many ads.
It's very juicy in terms of theamount of content versus ads.
So, yeah, it's going to beslightly chunkier than your
average glossy mag.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, it's going to be slightly chunkier than your
average glossy mag.
That's cool.
So for your team, I'm curious,because you know you've got
writers, you've got designers,you've got the amazing team how
did they go working on amagazine?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
You know, what.
It's a whole different thing,isn't it?
Well, the great thing was, andpart of the reason we sort of
really felt this was the year todo it.
We've been sort of talkingabout it on and off for a couple
of years, but there are a fewsort of, I guess, things that
made it, that came together andmade this the right time.
And one is we have a reallystrong team and Bea Taylor,
who's the managing editor of theDesign Files website, is
(29:20):
actually the editor of themagazine.
So I'm sort of stepping intoeditor-in-chief and she's the
editor, and that's because shebrings.
She used to work.
She's from New Zealand.
She came to work for us acouple of years ago and she was
working in magazines in NewZealand, so she has taught us a
lot.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
That's cool.
She's just the best.
She's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I know she's lovely, so, so lucky to have Bea and,
honestly, like I think Iunderestimated how valuable her
input would be because I feellike we'd just be working out as
we went along.
But she really has a lot ofrigor in terms of the process
for editing and copy editing andthe layers of editing that go
on, because we finished writingthis content a couple of months
(30:00):
ago but there's been a lot ofreally stringent editing process
.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So, yeah, the team is right.
The skills are all pretty muchin-house, except for our amazing
photographers, who are allfreelance, you know we have
almost all the stories arewritten by our in-house team,
and so we have this reallystrong team, and the funny thing
is they're all so excited aboutit because a lot of my team are
younger, you know.
Many of them are in their 20s,which is funny because you'd
(30:27):
think these are the digitalnatives.
These are the kids that grew upon Instagram and they should
all be about online and whywould they care about magazines?
But the thing is, they'rereally excited about magazines
and these are girls that sort ofgrew up thinking I want to work
in a magazine one day.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's cute, but there aren't many left and
certainly not in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
For them, they're actually very they've driven
this.
They've been really excitedabout it and that gives me hope
that the new generation comingthrough will still get excited.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It sort of makes sense, right?
I mean that you've got a younggeneration who loves vinyl.
Like it's kind of it's sort oflike you know, we were talking
about that sort of evolution ofstarting with digital and going
to print.
Yeah, and maybe you're kind ofalmost a little bit like I know
that we've talked about,obviously, magazines kind of
falling off, but that's becausethey're very much in that.
I don't know, that was how theystarted.
(31:17):
That's kind of what they'reentrenched in.
The publishers are entrenchedin that and just trying to make
it profitable, whereas you'recoming at it from a completely
different angle.
And, yeah, and I feel like whatyou said before too, about just
nailing and doubling down onthe brand, is kind of key there.
I think that is key and it'llbe interesting to see what
happens in print media inAustralia, because it's really
(31:40):
been kind of dissected now,where there's only really what
Vogue and Belle House and GardenHome, beautiful, better Homes
and Garden, which sort of sitsin almost a slightly different
space as well.
We sort of have lost any of themags that do present anything
real.
So you're really going to kindof just slide in there,
(32:02):
hopefully.
Well, that's sort of how I'mseeing it in terms of like
looking at it from a biggeroverall view that you would
never have known, obviously,that you know inside out was
going to disappear yeah, soyou're running your own game
you're not really comparing toall those other things.
You're sort of going this worksfor us now and to me that means
it's probably going to besuccessful just based on that
(32:25):
and not trying to kind of Idon't know outdo or like.
I feel like that makes a bigdifference.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean it's got it.
I think we have our own nicheand it doesn't feel like anyone
else's niche, like I feel likeI'm not competing.
I mean, obviously we competewith people, but it's not.
We're very different to a Bellor a Vogue Living you know, so
it does feel like there's spacein the market for us.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
But I think to your point about just the business
proposition of it and the factthat other magazines are closing
.
You know, I think in thecurrent landscape as a publisher
, a magazine could not work,could not be profitable or
successful if that was thebusiness Like.
It has to be part of a broaderbusiness and as a media platform
(33:09):
we need to be multifaceted.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I don't think magazines work on their own, but
they, you know, hopefully willwork as part of a broader you
know platform where we are alsoonline.
We also have a podcast, youknow we're in a lot of places
and the magazine is just anadded layer.
But it's certainly not like Iwouldn't want to have eight
staff and just have a magazineand be stressed if that was our
(33:34):
only channel.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Do you know what I mean?
Well, it's a lot of pressure onthat channel too.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
No, that makes complete sense.
I think that's that view ofcoming at it as something that's
just like adding to what you'vealready got.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I think that's yeah makes so much sense and
when you've got the like, I feellike we have the audience.
So it's not about necessarilyfinding new audience, it's just
about giving our existingaudience another slice of design
files in a new way.
So I feel confident that theaudience is there.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I'm not sort of trying to find a new reader,
it'll be so interesting, though,to see whether there is, like
you know, the people picking itup in your retail space, where
you're going to be selling, whoaren't really aware of it in the
digital space, and it becomes awhole new.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, that is weird Because I'm seeing the design
files for the first time.
Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, that is weird, because I'm seeing the design
files for the first time.
Yeah, that's a thing.
I think that will happen.
Anyway, that's just why I'vegot so much to learn.
I'll report back, yeah well, itwill be interesting to see.
Yeah we'll do another, we'll doa catch-up 12 months.
Two episodes and we'll see howit goes Well.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I'm in.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm just in your feedback.
So when you guys have got yourcopies.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I'm in two issues.
What did you say?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I said two episodes.
I didn't even catch that.
I'm in podcast mode.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
All good, all good and I guess, um, the other thing
that I find really interestingso like you know, I do a lot of
shoots for brands is trying tofind locations and the right
places to shoot in that space.
Like, how does that just kindof organically happen?
Because you are the designfiles, you just get like a
million people sending yourandom things like, hey, shoot
(35:17):
my house, or do you still needto go out and proactively find
the right things?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
No, we really have to be proactive because, yes, we
do get a lot of pictures, but wereally need a mix and I think
nowadays I don't knowAustralians like we have some
beautiful houses and I think wereally punch above our weight in
terms of the interior designand the architecture.
You know residentialarchitecture going on in
Australia.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But what that means is that there's a lot of players
when a house is, when a newhome is completed.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
you know as to who gets it kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, so interior designers and architects.
So those are the houses thatare designed by architects and
interior designers are the onesthat everyone wants.
That there's a bit morecompetition to run, yeah.
So those are the ones we sortof have to be proactive about,
and it's about relationshipswith those designers as well as
with, you know, homeowners.
So those are the ones that wehave to be more proactive about.
We do always get picturescoming in and those are often
(36:13):
the more eclectic homes, becauseI guess often it'll be a PR
person pitching it on behalf of,maybe, a business owner.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Sure yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
It's a real mix and I think yeah, but we certainly
can't sit back and go oh, we'redesign foals.
People are going to just sendus their houses.
I think it's more competitivethan ever.
There's more, you know, mediaoutlets running houses like this
now and we need to be always onthe hunt.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm always curious, like from a, I guess, from any
perspective, from a printperspective or a digital side of
things, in terms of a home,like you sort of touched on it a
little bit that there's sort oftwo facets to it.
There's, you want it becauseit's a particular design firm or
architect.
Is that because there's justgoing to be more PR around it or
(37:01):
people?
There's more interest becausepeople want to know what was
done by that particular designer, or is it more important about
the person that lives there?
So like, does that make a housemore interesting?
I think it's a bit of both Forme.
I'm always quite interested,particularly in the houses that
are a bit more eclectic andlayered and not overly styled,
(37:24):
because I feel like I can kindof see that anywhere.
I want to know about that personand what they do and how they
live, and I think that that's areally that's kind of almost
what makes a good story, andthat you kind of actually want
to read it.
You know, sometimes you don'teven read the story, you just
kind of flip through and look atthe pictures.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting
question.
I think for us we lean moretowards the side of who lives
here and we want to talk aboutthe homeowner and their story
and why that house works forthem and what they were hoping
to create in their space.
So for us, that's our focus.
And also we quite rarely run astory where homeowners are
(38:01):
anonymous.
We really like to name them, welike to take a photograph of
them and so people can see who'sin this house.
So for us, that's our focus.
But I will say there arecertain like architecture firms
that just always get the clicks.
So you know, we certainly won'tsay no to a Kennedy Nolan house
.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I'll tell you how much who says no to?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
that Say along.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I know.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
But more and more I feel like, again, it's important
to differentiate and I thinkthere are a lot of other titles
out there magazines and othertitles that are covering the
Kenny Nolan houses, and so it'shard to differentiate oneself if
that is your bread and butter.
So, I think for us we do runthose beautiful homes and we
(38:47):
always want to run those homes.
But I think if that were all wewere running, we would struggle
to look and feel different toother magazines and other titles
.
So I think for us we're veryconscious of finding real people
and showing those people andtalking to those homeowners in
our stories, so we have thatauthentic sort of take on it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Do you think that also means that when you're
talking about the homeowner moreand who lives there and
whatever they do, or the family?
Do you think that makes it moreattractive to consumer versus
like the design industry as well?
Like, do you wonder if thepeople clicking through on like
the Kennedy, Nolan House sort ofthing?
Is it going to be more industrybased?
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Well, funnily enough, I mean a Kennedy Nolan House
will always get heaps of clicksjust because it's going to be
stunning house will always getheaps of clicks just because
it's going to be stunning.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, so like it's just that it looks great.
Not necessarily because peopleknow who the architect is, it's
just about how it looks.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I don't think.
Well, it's interesting Industry, so architects really like to
look what other architects aredoing, and architects whose
projects are featured are alwaysvery conscious of how other
architects are perceiving them.
There's a lot of interesting soI mean the industry certainly
will be looking at the latestproject by a big local firm yeah
(40:01):
um, but that's not our mainaudience as I said before,
that's 20 percent of ouraudience so for us, we really
want to appeal to the consumeror the general public, so we try
not to get too sidetracked bythat.
But yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthe name of the firm is really
the clincher in terms of theviews or the engagement with
(40:24):
that story.
I think it really is just thestrength of the design and the
imagery.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, but I think that maybe Kennedy Nolan's not
like the best example to usebecause, well, it's not like a
huge, big turac mansion justwith marble everywhere yeah you
know like their projects reallylean into the design files.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Aesthetic anyway, yeah, there's a bit more, yeah,
more layered, more sort ofeclectic yeah and just like a
like a bit.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You know there's mid-century vibes and colour and
everything like that.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, we don't reallyfeature that many white giant
houses filled with marble.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I feel like that's probably a big hard.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
no, yeah, others that do that and that's okay.
I know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
No, you're right, Kennedy Nolan is, and I am the
hugest fan of Kennedy Nolan.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I feel like they should sponsor this podcast now.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
They don't need to.
They are fine, they've got noshortage of work.
But, yeah, I think it's reallyquite a mix, but we really want
to tell the story of the peoplethat live in the homes.
That's our focus and we feellike that's really our unique
take on homes and interiors.
(41:39):
So that's certainly what welook for.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, I'm really curious about where interiors
meter is going to go, because itfeels like we're going in that
circle.
Right, you're launching amagazine, there's magazines
closing and I feel like we'rekind of on a bit of a precipice
of change in terms of thetraditional print media,
(42:02):
particularly in Australia, andwhat's going to happen?
Will there be another magazinenow come up that's not
necessarily you, but in thatsort of more traditional, you
know, owned by a publisherthat's going to fill the gap for
Inside Out, real Living andthose style of magazines?
Because for me there is likestill a big, even with your
(42:23):
magazine coming in, there'sstill a gap there, for you know
what was those magazines?
So I don't know.
Do you think that there's goingto be?
Do you think that's kind oflike like we're rarely going to
see another magazine launch?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
now in print?
I think it's possible.
When I was at the supermarketthe other day, I saw a relaunch
of Cosmopolitan magazine, yeah,and I was looking through it and
I was like I feel like I'm in atime warp right now.
So maybe they're like the newgeneration.
Do they find magazines, thesekind of cool retro things?
(42:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
I think fashion is quite different and I think all
those sort of women's mags likeCosmo.
I think they have a muchbroader audience, so I think
they maybe make a bit more.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
That's true.
We're in a niche, right theyhave bigger readership.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah yeah, the niche makes it hard, I think.
Look, the pessimist in me wouldsay as a publisher, when I see
a new magazine title, forinstance, um marie claire has
put out a handful and I stillcan't figure out what their
publishing cycle is, it feelscompletely random.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I've put out maybe two or three copies of this at
Home's Marie Claire magazineMarie Claire lifestyle.
Yeah, I see it pop up every nowand then Occasionally.
Yeah, I haven't been able tomake that up either.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
I think it's even maybe once a year I've seen it.
I don't even know if I've seentwo in a year, anyway, but this
pessimist in me would say well,that's not driven by the
audience, that's by the audience, that's driven by the
advertiser.
Meaning marie claire will havean opportunity to sell some
space to a big um home where'suh, you know home advertised.
I think one issue was full of alot of fisher and pike lads,
(44:03):
for instance I mean, I can't getfisher and pike lads in their
glossy fashion mag.
Um well, they're limited in whatthey can sell to a advertiser
like that in a fashion mag, sothey in.
I feel like they just bring outa special issue at a certain
time because there is anadvertising demand for it, and
my feeling is that's not reallydriven by the audience.
(44:27):
It's actually driven by theadvertisers, and I don't think
that's a recipe for success.
Long term is if your only focusis on what advertising dollars
are out there.
Let's invent something that wecan sell to those advertisers.
To me, that's not the recipefor a long-term, you know,
building a readership.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's just not coming from like a space of
authenticity where you wantsomething to you want to express
your creativity you know, thisis what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I feel like this is what you know.
Everything I hear about themagazines that are in existence
now I rarely hear.
I mean the people that workthere have that.
They have that authenticity.
They're there to produceamazing stories and they still
have that passion for print.
And you know journalism in away but based around interiors.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
But I feel like they're absolutely being
overtaken and driven by whatyou're talking about, and then
that's starting to mold thecontent and then that's almost
the downfall really, I mean, Idon't think we're going to see
another glossy mag like anInside Out that is broad, you
know, that sells a huge amountof copies, like I think what
(45:34):
we're going to see is the riseof niche titles that will have a
very strong you know, probablysmaller audience, many of whom
subscribe directly, which meansthat, you know, is a viable
business model for a smallerpublisher.
But I don't see how Inside Outor Real Living are going to be
replaced by a new title in thatspace, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
But here's to niche things.
I kind of love that more in away.
I think that you know, ifthere's a select amount of great
things out there, it's alwaysbetter than being driven by
what's going to sell.
Or how do we get thisadvertising into something so
that we can make money Like it's?
(46:21):
I think people start to seethrough that.
I mean, yes, we have to makemoney.
I totally get that, but you canstill do it from a place of
authenticity when you'reproducing things.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think for us.
I mean we obviously have a hugenumber of brand partners and
advertisers and we certainlywouldn't be here without them.
As you said, that's that'scommercially.
You know what is needed to be abusiness and to be successful
and to have longevity.
But uh, I think you know it'sabout well for us.
Anyway, you've got.
We put the reader first andthen we so we go what, what does
(46:48):
our audience want?
And then how do we fund that?
What advertisers andpartnerships do we need to make
to bring that thing to market?
And that's what we've done withthe magazine and that's what we
do with all our content.
So I think any publisher hasthese two sort of stakeholders
in everything we do.
We have our readers and we haveour advertisers and everyone
(47:10):
needs to be happy at the end ofthe day.
But the advertisers are notgoing to get a great result if
the readers aren't there, and ifthe readers aren't engaged, so
you know it's a balance that weplay every day and you find that
good fit.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
So if you know what the readers want, then you can
kind of go.
Who is also going to workreally well with this, whereas I
think when you do it the otherway around it's harder to kind
of make the two things fittogether.
Yeah, you're sort of liketrying to retrofit it and it
doesn't quite gel.
I don't know, that's my twocents on never being in
(47:43):
publishing, but like what Ithink of it from the outside,
it's interesting, though, tohear your perspective.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It's interesting to hear your perspective, because
you never hear it from thatinside.
Yeah, that point of view.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, I mean, I'm very in it.
So it is really valuable tohear other sort of perspectives.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And you're in the industry too for example yeah,
I'm not immune to the influencesof everything that I hear.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
But I mean, I think you know, with magazines, you
know print magazines sort ofdeclining a bit, I think it
really it's not that they're,it's not that the market itself
is declining as you said peopleare still passionate about this
content.
They still want to buy magazines.
It's just that the medialandscape is so fragmented now
that we get this inspiration inmany different ways and
(48:28):
magazines don't hold all of that, you know.
They don't own inspirationanymore.
They're part of it, yeah, butwe also have blogs and we also
have pinterest and we also havethe instagram influences we love
to follow, and so,unfortunately, magazines, you
know, have their probably youknow 20 stake in in inspiration,
but they don't own it entirelyand I think, uh, that's not
(48:51):
necessarily a bad thing, but itmeans that, as publishers, we
can't be wedded to one channel.
We really need to look at it asmore of a holistic landscape.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
That's literally so well said.
I think that's exactly it, andI think that's where it's all
heading.
I do want to just ask one morequestion, because I'm curious
about this and we've had a chatabout this before about how we
think that blogs are kind ofcoming back and you've got a sub
stack, so we call it oh yeah,which is kind of it's basically
(49:22):
a blog, right yeah, it's like anold school blog again and it's
so fun.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's nice to see.
Yeah, a sub stack thing, aplatform where the creators you
can, you know, subscribe forfree.
But I was blown away at peoplethat wanted to subscribe and pay
to read my content.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, yeah, so that's really nice to see anything
sometimes, yeah, I just actuallydo.
It wasn't why I was doing it.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
I was just wanting to put my ideas out there, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
But um, yeah, it's kind of nice to see blogs almost
come back in a different wayagain yeah yeah, from a
different perspective well, Ithink you know that speaks to
sort of the, the importance of,of trusted voices, and you know,
like, the value of of certainbrands and certain voices in
(50:11):
this space, and I think it's notnecessarily about reaching
millions of people, it's abouthaving a small but loyal
following, you know, and thatcan be enough If there's one
publisher.
I mean, it's happening a lotwith food writers, where they've
, you know, they're generatingthese great recipes and they're
really forging a whole newbusiness by having subscribers
(50:34):
that directly subscribe to theirSubstack.
And you know it's quite aninteresting space.
I don't know how, if there's acapacity people have for, like,
how many Substacks can yousubscribe to?
It's sort of like Netflix, likehow many?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
can you actually?
Speaker 3 (50:50):
I know I've got a small handful I subscribe to and
I just can't read them all yeah, and I mean you sort of have a
limit of like how much outlayyou're willing to spend in any
given month.
Just on content, I think yeah,but it is encouraging that
people are seeing the value ingood content and voices they
trust, and enough to to invest alittle bit each month in those
(51:10):
voices yeah yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
yeah, well, I reckon we've almost well, we probably
haven't exhausted the topic.
We could keep going, but wemight want to wrap it up.
Yeah, but yeah, I think thatwe've covered so many great
things.
Thank you, lucy, for youramazing input and wealth of
knowledge.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Thank you, I hope I said something valuable and
clear.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Oh no, absolutely, Well, I've got one question Do
you have a favourite story fromyour magazine?
Speaker 3 (51:40):
Yeah, okay, so one that I'm really I mean Misty
Higgins' House Aside, which wasa bit of a fangirl moment.
One story which is a greatexample of a story that probably
wouldn't necessarily, you know,be one that goes nuts online
but I think hopefully peoplewill engage with in the mag is I
(52:01):
wrote this story about anIndigenous housing collective in
Northern Territory, and so it'sjust a really great story about
people that have come togetherwith Indigenous leaders and sort
of are doing this reallyinnovative and quite meaningful
project where they really wantto just design better housing
(52:23):
for Indigenous people living outin remote communities, and so
the organisation is called WiljaJanta and yeah, that's just a
really it's close to my heartbecause I wrote that story and
also I just feel like it's astory that deserves this moment
(52:43):
in the spotlight in a way thatit might not get online.
So that's that's.
That's a cool one, that isamazing.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Actually, I think that's gonna um spark a lot of
interest for people who don'tknow a lot about it too.
Because you've got such a greataudience, they're going to want
to kind of like okay, what isthis about?
And yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Opening people's eyes to things that maybe they just
wouldn't necessarily.
Yeah, so they wouldn'tnecessarily click on it, but
they're going to come across itin the magazine and maybe it'll
get that kind of hold, thatvalue for them.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, I think so.
So, yeah, hopefully there'll bestories like that in every
issue.
That can just, um, yeah, likelead people somewhere that they
might not expect to, you know,go uh, but hopefully it will be,
um, yeah, a way to tell somenew stories in new ways, and
that's yeah, that's just a goodexample of of that for our
launch issue.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, perfect well, I feel like we've had the best
chat and, um, it's just a goodexample of that for our launch
issue.
Yeah, perfect.
Well, I feel like we've had thebest chat and it's been a very
big pleasure to have you here,lucy.
I would like to say that we aregoing to have some extra
content on our YouTube channel,which will be Lucy revealing
some things that nobody elseknows about and her life.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
No pressure, no pressure.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
So do pop over for that bonus content.
We would love you to hear thatas well, but for now, thank you,
and thank you, lauren.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Thank you.
Thanks for the chat.
It's so fun.
Thank you so much for having me.
Guys.
This has been a pleasure.
That was such a fun chat withLucy, like she's just so
knowledgeable, she's so down toearth and it's such a cool
insight to that kind of mediaworld, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, she's so amazing to talk to and shared so
much as well, which isfantastic, great knowledge.
So good.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
So remember you guys.
If you're listening in and youwant to make your home magazine
worthy and the best it can be, Ican help you with my course
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
It's been so fun to create thiscourse.
It's all the good information.
And then for interior designprofessionals out there, come
(54:48):
and jump into the Design Society.
I'm helping you with your fees,with your process and marketing
and all the things, and it'sjust such a great community in
there and it is.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
I love the design society.
I've had a lot of fun umconversations in there with that
group.
Uh and yeah, in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for um my up and comingrelease of pre-selected
furniture collections.
So they'll be fun and therewill be some short courses also
to help you style those andgreat trend information.
(55:20):
So it's worth signing up for oh, good stuff, gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
So if you guys wanted to jump onto youtube for that
more visual experience, you can,but I think for now it's over
and out.
Yeah, we'll speak to you nexttime.
We've got the utmost respectfor the Wurundjeri people of the
Kulin nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
(55:46):
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast by friends and fellowdesigners.
Me, lauren Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And me, Brie Banfield , and with some amazing guests
along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We're here to break down everything from current
trends to timeless style.
And with a shared passion forjoyful, colour-filled and
lived-in spaces, we're reallyexcited to share our insights
and inspiration with you and ifyou would love to dive in a
little bit deeper, I've got acourse called the style studies
essentials where I can help youcreate your own dream home and,
(00:36):
for any designers listening, Ican also help you too with your
business, marketing, fees,process, all the things, and
there is a link down there inthe show notes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yes, I've been part of the Design Society and it's
quite fabulous.
You can also find in the shownotes a link to sign up to be
notified when I release mypre-selected furniture
collections and also some shortcourses on styling and trends so
cool.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Brie Love it.
So in this conversation, LucyFagans reflects on the Design
Files journey from its 2008launch to the recent print
magazine debut.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
She discusses that shift from digital to print and
the evolving design medialandscape and that importance of
authentic niche storytelling inreaching today's audiences.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And if you want to get a more visual experience of
this podcast, you can jump ontoYouTube and we will be sharing
some imagery and at the endthere is a little treat for you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, some bonus content from our guests where we
ask them really hard personalquestions, that some of the
things you may never have heardbefore about them.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So good Shall we dive in Brie, let's get going.
So I was trying to remember thefirst time I came across Lucy
in the design files and I thinkit was like oh my gosh, when did
the design file start?
Was it 2008?
Yes, 2008.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So I think, because I remember I'd just come back
from a year or so in London andI was just like it was GFC, it
was like a bit doom and gloomkind of vibe, and then I don't
even know, you know, you'd neverknow how you go down this kind
of rabbit hole.
But then, following the designfiles and I was working in an
office and it was anarchitectural office, it was a
(02:26):
little bit boring, sorry.
And then I would like get inearly, get my coffee, and the
first thing I would do is gointo the design files and read
my.
It was like a little hit ofinspiration that you needed in
your day, yeah, yeah.
And then I think when I firstmet you I think it was at one of
the open houses- yeah, I thinkit was the one um on.
(02:49):
Gertrude Street yeah, just off,gertrude.
Street and we all were on ourlunch break and we went in and
it was so exciting.
It was so cool like everyonewas there.
There was, like these, umshelves filled with all these
beautiful colourful objects.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That was the era of fluoro everything.
It was like fluoro pink andthose Miranda Scotcher artworks
in the fluoro frames.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
It was in vibe at the time.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
It was such a vibe and they were always like bright
, pink or bright yellow.
Fluoro.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, it was a time, yeah, it was such a good time.
And then, yeah, it would bejust like oh, wednesday, what's
the house going to be featuredLike?
I was like really in it.
Oh, you also joined one.
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That was our first ever open house event, so you
must have been there, you knowright from very early days, so
thank you for being you know afan for all this time I'm such a
fan.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I feel like so.
Did you say 2008?
I think it must have been thenwhen I first started interacting
with the design files like as ablog.
Right, yeah, because that's kindof how it started.
Yeah, yeah, and I won a prize.
Oh, what did you win?
I won.
It was one of those.
You know, the timber rainbowsthe colourful.
(04:06):
It was one of those.
You know, the timber rainbowsthe colorful ones, like the
original ones that were made bythe melbourne yes, um, craft.
I can't even think of the brandI know, I wish I could remember
the same brand that does thetrams.
Now, is it that brand?
I don't know anyway I wish Icould remember I won, like it
was quite big and it was soexciting, and so that's the
first interaction I ever hadwith the design files.
Was winning, winning?
Um yeah, the, the colorfulrainbow, which is probably still
(04:28):
somewhere, oh.
I love garage packed up andthen we didn't actually, and
then obviously we would haveknown of each other for a long
time, just being in the industry, but we didn't actually meet.
Do you remember it was an NGVevent?
Yeah, and it wasn't probablyuntil so.
It would have been pre-covid, Iguess.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah but like surely I met you before, that time it
was this weird thing where weboth went.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Actually we've never met in person.
Oh, it would have been.
What about milan?
No, that was after that, so itwas before milan that we met.
Yeah, milan was 2016, I thinkyou went.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I knew I should have revisited these days before I
sat down here.
I know this was like a fewyears ago.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Well, I went 2017 and it was before that, and I think
you mentioned, oh, you wentafter that when you went.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So it was the year after Maybe.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, so weird isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
For those listening that have no idea what we're
talking about, lucy did a serieswhere she went to Milan and
Dulux, I guess, sponsored thatand then David Flack was sort of
like I guess little storiesaround different people and what
they do in Milan, you and whatyou got up to, david Flack from
Flack Studio and then myself andAndrea Lucina Orr from Dulux as
(05:43):
the trend podcasters.
It was a really cool series.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I loved that.
It was so fun.
I remember following along.
I'm like Phil, we've got to gonext year.
I know it was sort of.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I mean, milan has become even bigger in everyone's
imagination.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Now I feel like now more people go and it's a big
hike for people to go from.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Melbourne to Milan, but there are people that go
every year and I feel like thatwas, yeah, just the start of it
for me.
But I mean, I don't actually goto Milan every year.
I'm not good like that.
I know some people you do, yeah, but to be honest, for us we've
sort of come to a differentplace where we feel our audience
are much more engaged withlocal design, Australian design
and so even though we love itand our clients love it and a
(06:26):
certain subset of our audiencelove it.
I think the thing about Milan is, you know it very much is an
industry.
It's about the design industryand I think we've realized over
time that our audience is prettymuch about 80% the general
public design enthusiasts andyou, you know maybe renovators
and you know house proud people,and it's about 20 percent
(06:47):
design industry, so architectsand designers and stylists and
stuff.
So that's why milan for us is asometimes thing, but it's not.
It's not something I feel, um,we need to do every year, but I
do still get the fomo when I seebrie there in her amazing
outfits, pounding the pavementTrue.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It is fun, but I totally get that.
I think it is probably more ofan interest from the design
industry perspective and someconsumers will obviously love it
, but it's not for everyone.
I think sometimes it's not asrelatable, maybe just to the
average consumer who's?
Interested in design.
Maybe that's just notnecessarily what they're into,
(07:27):
but we did want to just check inwith you too, Lucy.
Like what have you been up to?
Tell us what's new for you.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well, since you asked , it's a pretty exciting time
for us because we have justreleased our first print
magazine Very exciting.
So it's at the exciting timefor us because we have just
released our first printmagazine.
Very exciting.
So it's at the printers as wespeak.
I wish I had a physical copy toshow you, but it will be in
stores on October the 12th.
I'm not sure when this isreleased, but I think, yeah,
(08:00):
it'll be out soon and I'll bevery relieved to see the real,
you know, the fruits of all ourwork.
But, yeah, it's a big leap forus going to print.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So when you say in stores, which stores?
Okay, good question.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So obviously we are selling it online, so you can
just buy it on our website, butwe also have a.
Really we've had a really greatresponse from retailers, mainly
good booksellers.
So, Readings is taking it theAvenue Bookstore Happy Valley.
It's going to be the NGVBookstore.
So all our stockists are listedon the website.
But yeah, we've got about 35stockists.
(08:37):
Oh wow, that's pretty good.
Yeah, mainly Melbourne, and thenyou know we'd love a few more
in other other states, but we dohave a few in every state.
So, yeah, it's actually beenvery encouraging because, you
know, like people look at designfiles and they think, oh, you
know, they've got all thesefollowers they've got.
You know, they don't have toworry about promoting things,
but we still, for us, this is avery new you know, venture and
(09:01):
we definitely have been very youknow know a bit nervous about
how it's going to be receivedand obviously we want it to be a
success.
So it's been very validating tohave some really wonderful
stockers jump on board and saythey'll take some copies and
yeah, get it out there.
Yeah, so you've got thembelieving in you, I guess yeah
exactly, yeah, and we don't takethat for granted at all and,
(09:23):
unlike you guys, I've never donea book, so I feel like this is
a whole new world for us andhaving a physical thing to
actually sell people is, itfeels like a big leap.
Like you know, everything we dois free, like we've.
So I, as you mentioned, startedDesign Files in 2008.
So it's been 16 years of freecontent, all online.
(09:44):
Yeah, so it may not seem likethat big a deal, but to me it
feels like a big deal to saythis is one thing that is a
physical thing that you doactually need to buy and it's a
very different proposition.
So we're excited but a bitnervous.
But yeah, it's been a greatresponse so far.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I cannot wait to see it.
I'm super excited.
I mean, I just love anything ina print media form as well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I will be absolutely having a copy of that on my
coffee table.
Thank you, it just seems like ano-brainer.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think, yeah, from your point of view, you're like,
oh, here's this physicalproduct you can buy, but for us
we're like okay, great, likeyeah, we'll buy that.
I think I've already got minepre-ordered.
Oh, lauren, you guys are sogood On YouTube.
We're going to show like acover.
Yes, but can you describewhat's on the cover?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, well, we're pretty excited because we shot
Missy Higgins' house.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Missy.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Higgins is doing a lot of promo at the moment for
her new album.
Yeah, that's so cool, love her.
I am a child of that era whereMissy was a very big deal in my
you know teenage years.
So yeah, we're pretty pumpedthat Missy's house is on the
cover and obviously we've got abig story on her place in the
mag.
But it's not really that sortof mag where it's like celebrity
houses that was happened to beone.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It just happened to be a really cool house.
It looked like a natural fitfor the design files.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So you know, I think you know, in coming up with sort
of the look and feel of the magand the type of content we were
going to run, we sort of wantedto have, you know, be true to
our general ethos, which is verymuch showing the diversity of
the houses we live in inAustralia.
So there is a bit ofmid-century in there, there's a
(11:31):
couple of really amazingarchitectural homes, but
likewise there's apartments,there's a rented home, there's.
You know, there's a real mixand we feel like that's our
differentiator and that's whatwe feel we do.
Well, and I think when I thinkabout I want to create content
about homes and design thatmakes you feel good when you
(11:51):
read it, when you close themagazine, you're going to feel
good about your own place.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You're not going to feel like you know worse about
how you live at home.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It reflects you rather than you know, makes you
feel like you're not good enough.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's my vibe.
That's so interesting actuallyand I think, yeah, the diversity
it's so appreciated because youcan look through some other
magazines which are reallyhigh-end and it's really fun to
look through, but it's notexactly relatable.
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's thegreat thing with the design
files, you can find something alittle relatable, it's a little
bit more within reach.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, exactly, and I think you know we do need to
strike a balance.
Obviously there's aspiration inthere too, and we do need to
still be providing inspiration,but I just sort of feel like our
unique place in the medialandscape is to, you know,
really show how we live in asort of authentic way, and I
(12:48):
don't want to just sharemultimillion dollar homes every
day of the week.
I feel like that isn't, it'snot a true reflection of how,
you know, australians live intheir homes.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I think the thing that I love about the
design files is that they'relived in.
The houses are lived in, yeah,and I mean that seems like
obviously it's a house thatthey're lived in the houses are
lived in.
Yeah, and I mean that seems likeobviously it's a house yeah but
you do see a lot of housesrepresented in media that are
just so taken out.
Everything of the person istaken out for the photo shoot
(13:18):
and I get it like that's one wayto do it.
Yeah, but I think you know thedesign file strikes that balance
, like obviously it's not a mess.
Yeah, no one wants to see likea messy house, but you can still
see something of the peoplethat live there, so that's
really nice.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
I guess that sort of brings usto our overall topic, which is
the changing landscape ininteriors, in media.
It's a long topic, but I feellike that's where traditional
media has sat right, when it'smore, it's far more aspirational
in terms of I don't know thingsthat maybe do make you feel a
(13:57):
little bit like could I ever getthere, Whereas what you're sort
of representing, or have beenon the design files, is that
more connected interior whereyou could see yourself getting
there.
So it's like a tighter view ofbeing aspirational and not so,
you know, lofty and you knowjust a dream.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
But I feel like that's where.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So traditional print media for interiors has kind of
sat in that space where it's,yeah, the people are sort of
maybe taken out of it, or whenthey're included, it's still
very stylised.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I guess the thing which is sad is that Inside Out
magazine that's just folded.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So I think that did do that quite well.
It would put people in thereand real living before that, and
I loved real living as well.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
But that's interesting because you know,
with the design files startingas a digital publication, you've
almost totally flipped it,because a lot of these
traditional print publicationsstart as print and then they're
trying to navigate their wayonline, and some do it way
better than others.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I don't know that any of them do it super well.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
if I'm being honest, I think some of those websites
are.
I think some of theinternational ones maybe do it
pretty well like Architectural.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Digest.
Is there one that you think ofthat does digital really well?
That was traditional and hasmoved into that.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
No, well, I think overseas, yes, and I think in
Australia, I must admit.
I mean, I don't like to talkabout other publications but I'm
really sad that Inside Out'sclosing this month and.
I must say it was a bit of anervous, a scary one, when I
heard that, because we areliterally launching a magazine
in the same month that they'refolding, and I remember when
Inside Out was my favorite mag,when Karen McCartney was at the
(15:41):
helm, the best.
I'm talking 12 or more yearsago.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And so it started out as a very different mag.
But I think, if I couldpinpoint where I think maybe
they went a little wrong was,you know, amalgamating a lot of
brands under the Homes to Lovewebsite.
Yes, because what I feel andthis is my personal rationale
for launching a print magazinein a climate where a lot of
print magazines are folding myrationale for it is you know,
(16:09):
it's really all about yourunique brand in a very cluttered
media landscape.
So by that I mean, you know,there are so many voices now,
there's so many publications,and even influencers are also
many sort of publications intheir own way.
So there's so much content youcould be consuming in this space
(16:31):
and I think you really need todouble down on your unique
proposition in this clutteredspace and on your unique brand.
And the problem with Homes toLove is it brought a lot of
brands under one umbrella.
And then it didn't really giveyou know, inside out its own
online presence, which is ashame because I think you know
that could have been built.
(16:51):
So that's.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think the good news is and I could be wrong,
because this is just all youknow what I hear is that it
wasn't necessarily doing thatbadly.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
As a magazine sales-wise.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And there were other reasons behind it, yeah, which I
won't go into because I don'treally know for sure, but that's
that's what I'm hearing is thatit's not necessarily that it
took a big dive and had to gobecause it wasn't profitable
it's probably more in.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
In situations like that, where one uh publisher
owns a number of magazines, theysort of become their own
competitor.
So meaning they're sellingadvertising across multiple
magazines and they probably justlook at it and go well, we can
just sell the same advertisingto two titles and not spread it
across four or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So it does.
So it's just looking at thatprofitability from a different
way.
How can we make it moreprofitable even though it was
maybe doing okay?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Exactly, exactly.
So I don't know, it is sad tosee titles like that close and
real living before it, but Ifeel like for us it's a very
different strategy and rationalebehind doing the magazine.
So, you know, the bulk of ouraudience will always be online.
That's where the big reach isfor us and always will be.
(18:08):
But we feel the magazine isgoing to hopefully engage our
you know, our biggest fans, likeyou guys.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The ones that have bought it on pre-order on the
first day.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
How many copies?
How many copies did you order?
Should I buy more?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Okay, I'll buy more.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Lauren, our number one fan.
But I think for us it's aboutadding this extra thing.
It's not going to take awayfrom what's happening online and
it's you know online will reachmore people, but the magazine's
about doubling down on ourbrand, sort of elevating design
files, maybe a little bit interms of credibility, because I
(18:47):
think you know we have beenaround for 16 years, we do know
our stuff.
But I think if you're onlyonline, it can be easy to I
don't know be somewhat likeperceived as a less valuable
resource somehow.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's about perception, isn't it funny?
And also it's free, as you sortof said before.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, but I feel like it's so fascinating that whole
perception, even say, as adesigner, to have your project
in print still, and maybe thisis changing, maybe this is a
generational thing as well wouldstill be a far bigger deal,
even though that magazine maynot have the same reach, for
(19:25):
instance.
Bigger deal even though thatmagazine may not have the same
reach, for instance, or audience, as say, the design files, or
an online um media where youknow you're going to actually
get more people see it, but it'sstill so much I don't know.
There's still this kind of likepride in absolutely well it's.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
It's about, um, uh, rarity.
Do you know what I mean?
Like on, like that.
We find that you know it's hardfor us to secure an
architectural project for designfiles before it's been in print
, because all the architectswant their projects to be in
print first, and so I think itwill enable us to maybe get some
different projects you knowfirst and not have to wait for
it to be in magazines.
(20:01):
So there is definitely thatfeeling, I think, of just the
rarity of it, like, at the endof the day, if we're publishing
15 stories a week online, it'sbecoming less rare to be
featured on the design files,whereas to be featured in the
magazine is sort of.
Yeah, it has, I guess, aperceived value that is higher
than being featured in thisendless stream of content that
(20:23):
is quite prolific.
Now, you know the websiteitself, so true, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And when you're looking at, I guess, print
versus online, I'm reallycurious.
Is there a generational thing?
Who's reading print as opposedto digital?
Is it the same audience, like?
I don't even really know.
I've tried to think about thisand whether or not, maybe maybe
there's definitely like an olderaudience who prefers to have
(20:48):
like I know people who like evenstill print things out because
they prefer to hold it and readit.
Whereas I am quite a digitalperson and maybe that's a bit
different for my generation thanthe average person my age who
would much prefer to havesomething they can hold or read
with their coffee, whereas Iliterally nearly all my
(21:08):
magazines.
Now it's rare that I buy anactual magazine.
They're all on my iPad, it'sall Zinio, really yeah.
Yeah, but I might be.
I'm probably not the averageconsumer.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
No, I feel like, because you're in the industry,
you have a different you knowway of approaching, because,
also, you know, don't you feelwhen you read a design magazine,
it also feels a bit like work.
Even though you enjoy it, ithas a research element to it and
you feel like you've got to bethorough and get all your issues
on time when they come out andyou can't just yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I have two different modes.
So I'll have a mode where andI'll often do this say on the
weekend, where I get out theiPad, have the coffee or the
breakfast or whatever it is, orthe wine, and then I just go
into like enjoy it mode and Iflick through and I try and like
absorb it and I just as me andmy point of view, and then I
(21:59):
have a mode where I'm likeliterally churning through it
from a work point of view.
So I have two different modeswhen I do it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Okay, that's interesting.
Well, that's funny because youreading magazines, print
magazines digitally.
Does that mean that the DesignFiles magazine is going to go
digital?
Well, you know what?
Next step?
Who knows A few?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
people have asked about that.
It's funny.
And we are doing that to startwith.
It won't be on Zinio, at leastnot initially, because we just
really want people to buy it.
And I don't want it to beonline, but I think this is a
good thing.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So I would go absolutely.
I would still need a copy ofthat.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I would enjoy it because it is a physical copy.
It's just that I don't, and Isubscribe to a lot of magazines,
so there's that too.
I just don't buy all of them.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It would have to be something unique and special and
kind of that's good, actually,that you're not doing a digital
copy at least yet, because Ithink, yeah, you need people to
enjoy it, as it is intended tobe first I suppose, yeah, I
think we just really want to getit out there and encourage
people to get the print copy,and it's like there is so much
Design Files, content onlinethat you, you know there's no
(23:05):
shortage if you want to engagewith us in that way.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
What about the different types of stories like
that you would write, comparedto digital versus print?
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, Well, that's sort of one of the most exciting
things, because you know,what's interesting about running
an online publication is,whether you like it or not, you
are always.
Everything becomes quite datadriven, and by that I mean we
know what stories and whatheadlines and what images get
the most clicks.
And even if you're only, youknow, an influencer, like you
(23:36):
are, you know, I think you cantell when you're posting
something online on Instagramwhat performs well and what
doesn't, and then thatinevitably sort of-.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Starts to shape the content Exactly Detects what you
post in the future.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So even though we try not to be too swayed by that,
at the end of the day, you knowwhen a story comes across our
desk, if a pitch comes in, we'llgo well, that's not going to
get any clicks, even if we loveit.
It's like that photo, likereally boring stuff, like really
dark photos, like I love thathouse but we'd have to reshoot
it.
Those photos can't run, Eventhough we like them.
They're really moody andbeautiful.
That's going to get no clicksand we just know that and it's
(24:13):
unfortunate.
So I think what we're reallyenjoying by putting together
content for the magazine is thisidea of actually we can't.
We will have stats on how wellthis issue goes but I don't know
which stories in the magazineare going to be the ones people
pour over versus the ones thatthey might just flick over more
quickly, or the ones they readfrom word to word rather than
(24:37):
just flicking, and I thinkthere's something quite freeing
in that.
Editorially to sort of curatean issue and go.
We're going to be freed up fromthe numbers here.
We're going to fill a magazinewith stories so exciting.
Yeah, that we're excited aboutand we really want people to
love them.
But equally we can put storiesin there that are probably a bit
longer a bit, you know a bitmore.
(24:59):
There's a couple of stories inthere that have a little bit
more substance to them that weprobably wouldn't get a huge
amount of clicks online, buthopefully in the magazine people
can sit with them a bit longerand engage with them in a
different way.
So we really like the idea ofhaving this one vehicle where we
can put slightly longer formcontent, slightly more
meaningful content alongside alot of gorgeous homes and not
(25:22):
feel like we're failing if it'snot a high rating story.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's so interesting too.
I feel like it's so importantto have that kind of content
that isn't analysed to deathabout what's going to sell or be
clicked on, because whathappens is and I've had these
conversations with magazineeditors where they'll have
pressure from the publisher, whoobviously the idea is to sell
(25:49):
magazines Like this is the worldwe live in, right, we've all
got to make money from what wedo, even if we love what we do,
and so they get this pressurewhere they go.
You know blue doors of a thingthat everybody wants.
And so it sort of becomes almostself perpetuating right so if
we're all posting blue doors,where's the new content?
(26:10):
Where's the new ideas?
What are we being inspired by?
We can't keep just seeing thesame stuff because that's what
sells Like.
You've got to kind of be ableto be in a space where you can
put other stuff out there andsee what happens, right
Otherwise we're kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It's an echo chamber yeah, and I think that's where
magazines uh, you know, that'swhy, when we engage magazines,
we do have a slightly differentfeeling in terms of what we take
away from them, because they'renot, um, predetermined by an
algorithm, you know it's, it'ssomething that we're sort of um,
you can sort of step intoanother world and really give
(26:44):
yourself over to the editors ofthat magazine and take that hour
of your time to be in acompletely other realm.
That isn't sort of, you know,data driven and algorithm driven
, maybe a bit slower.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I guess If you've got a print mag, you're more likely
to kind of take your time,whereas I feel like when I'm
swiping or scrolling, I'mprobably going to go a lot
faster, right, yeah, and notspend as much time on the page
as you do with something inprint.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, and I think it's nice when you're reading a
story in a magazine, you knowthere might be a shot of the
door.
And then there's another shotthat looks back at the door.
It's almost like you can walkyour way through the house, yeah
, you know you can connect thedots and sort of work.
I just love doing that.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Whereas online it's just yeah, it is too quick, you
can't really dive right into aproject.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Well, you can sort of on one screen whether it's your
laptop or a desktop or a phoneyou sort of are engaging with
one image at a time.
Really, you don't have thatexperience of seeing images side
by side and sort of being ableto sort of curate that
experience for your reader.
So, yeah, I mean we'll see.
This issue isn't out yet.
Hopefully it does all thethings that we're, you know,
aiming for it to do.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Oh, I kind of love that you do it.
So you're doing two issues ayear.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, we're just starting with two, so it'll be
October and April.
So it's sort of like a summerissue and a winter issue
initially and we'll just gaugehow it goes.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
But yeah, that feels manageable to us for now Is it
bigger, like is it a fattermagazine, because it's.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, it's slightly fatter than Kind of like a good
chunky book?
Yeah, yeah, to be honest, Idon't know, because we don't
have the physical copy back yet,but we've printed.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
we've sort of got mock-ups in our office, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
But it's 176 pages and there are ads in it, but
there are not many ads.
It's very juicy in terms of theamount of content versus ads.
So, yeah, it's going to beslightly chunkier than your
average glossy mag.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, it's going to be slightly chunkier than your
average glossy mag.
That's cool.
So for your team, I'm curious,because you know you've got
writers, you've got designers,you've got the amazing team how
did they go working on amagazine?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
You know, what.
It's a whole different thing,isn't it?
Well, the great thing was, andpart of the reason we sort of
really felt this was the year todo it.
We've been sort of talkingabout it on and off for a couple
of years, but there are a fewsort of, I guess, things that
made it, that came together andmade this the right time.
And one is we have a reallystrong team and Bea Taylor,
who's the managing editor of theDesign Files website, is
(29:20):
actually the editor of themagazine.
So I'm sort of stepping intoeditor-in-chief and she's the
editor, and that's because shebrings.
She used to work.
She's from New Zealand.
She came to work for us acouple of years ago and she was
working in magazines in NewZealand, so she has taught us a
lot.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
That's cool.
She's just the best.
She's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I know she's lovely, so, so lucky to have Bea and,
honestly, like I think Iunderestimated how valuable her
input would be because I feellike we'd just be working out as
we went along.
But she really has a lot ofrigor in terms of the process
for editing and copy editing andthe layers of editing that go
on, because we finished writingthis content a couple of months
(30:00):
ago but there's been a lot ofreally stringent editing process
.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So, yeah, the team is right.
The skills are all pretty muchin-house, except for our amazing
photographers, who are allfreelance, you know we have
almost all the stories arewritten by our in-house team,
and so we have this reallystrong team, and the funny thing
is they're all so excited aboutit because a lot of my team are
younger, you know.
Many of them are in their 20s,which is funny because you'd
(30:27):
think these are the digitalnatives.
These are the kids that grew upon Instagram and they should
all be about online and whywould they care about magazines?
But the thing is, they'rereally excited about magazines
and these are girls that sort ofgrew up thinking I want to work
in a magazine one day.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's cute, but there aren't many left and
certainly not in Melbourne.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
For them, they're actually very they've driven
this.
They've been really excitedabout it and that gives me hope
that the new generation comingthrough will still get excited.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It sort of makes sense, right?
I mean that you've got a younggeneration who loves vinyl.
Like it's kind of it's sort oflike you know, we were talking
about that sort of evolution ofstarting with digital and going
to print.
Yeah, and maybe you're kind ofalmost a little bit like I know
that we've talked about,obviously, magazines kind of
falling off, but that's becausethey're very much in that.
I don't know, that was how theystarted.
(31:17):
That's kind of what they'reentrenched in.
The publishers are entrenchedin that and just trying to make
it profitable, whereas you'recoming at it from a completely
different angle.
And, yeah, and I feel like whatyou said before too, about just
nailing and doubling down onthe brand, is kind of key there.
I think that is key and it'llbe interesting to see what
happens in print media inAustralia, because it's really
(31:40):
been kind of dissected now,where there's only really what
Vogue and Belle House and GardenHome, beautiful, better Homes
and Garden, which sort of sitsin almost a slightly different
space as well.
We sort of have lost any of themags that do present anything
real.
So you're really going to kindof just slide in there,
(32:02):
hopefully.
Well, that's sort of how I'mseeing it in terms of like
looking at it from a biggeroverall view that you would
never have known, obviously,that you know inside out was
going to disappear yeah, soyou're running your own game
you're not really comparing toall those other things.
You're sort of going this worksfor us now and to me that means
it's probably going to besuccessful just based on that
(32:25):
and not trying to kind of Idon't know outdo or like.
I feel like that makes a bigdifference.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean it's got it.
I think we have our own nicheand it doesn't feel like anyone
else's niche, like I feel likeI'm not competing.
I mean, obviously we competewith people, but it's not.
We're very different to a Bellor a Vogue Living you know, so
it does feel like there's spacein the market for us.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
But I think to your point about just the business
proposition of it and the factthat other magazines are closing
.
You know, I think in thecurrent landscape as a publisher
, a magazine could not work,could not be profitable or
successful if that was thebusiness Like.
It has to be part of a broaderbusiness and as a media platform
(33:09):
we need to be multifaceted.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I don't think magazines work on their own, but
they, you know, hopefully willwork as part of a broader you
know platform where we are alsoonline.
We also have a podcast, youknow we're in a lot of places
and the magazine is just anadded layer.
But it's certainly not like Iwouldn't want to have eight
staff and just have a magazineand be stressed if that was our
(33:34):
only channel.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Do you know what I mean?
Well, it's a lot of pressure onthat channel too.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
No, that makes complete sense.
I think that's that view ofcoming at it as something that's
just like adding to what you'vealready got.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah, I think that's yeah makes so much sense and
when you've got the like, I feellike we have the audience.
So it's not about necessarilyfinding new audience, it's just
about giving our existingaudience another slice of design
files in a new way.
So I feel confident that theaudience is there.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I'm not sort of trying to find a new reader,
it'll be so interesting, though,to see whether there is, like
you know, the people picking itup in your retail space, where
you're going to be selling, whoaren't really aware of it in the
digital space, and it becomes awhole new.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, that is weird Because I'm seeing the design
files for the first time.
Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, that is weird, because I'm seeing the design
files for the first time.
Yeah, that's a thing.
I think that will happen.
Anyway, that's just why I'vegot so much to learn.
I'll report back, yeah well, itwill be interesting to see.
Yeah we'll do another, we'll doa catch-up 12 months.
Two episodes and we'll see howit goes Well.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I'm in.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm just in your feedback.
So when you guys have got yourcopies.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I'm in two issues.
What did you say?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I said two episodes.
I didn't even catch that.
I'm in podcast mode.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
All good, all good and I guess, um, the other thing
that I find really interestingso like you know, I do a lot of
shoots for brands is trying tofind locations and the right
places to shoot in that space.
Like, how does that just kindof organically happen?
Because you are the designfiles, you just get like a
million people sending yourandom things like, hey, shoot
(35:17):
my house, or do you still needto go out and proactively find
the right things?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
No, we really have to be proactive because, yes, we
do get a lot of pictures, but wereally need a mix and I think
nowadays I don't knowAustralians like we have some
beautiful houses and I think wereally punch above our weight in
terms of the interior designand the architecture.
You know residentialarchitecture going on in
Australia.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But what that means is that there's a lot of players
when a house is, when a newhome is completed.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
you know as to who gets it kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, so interior designers and architects.
So those are the houses thatare designed by architects and
interior designers are the onesthat everyone wants.
That there's a bit morecompetition to run, yeah.
So those are the ones we sortof have to be proactive about,
and it's about relationshipswith those designers as well as
with, you know, homeowners.
So those are the ones that wehave to be more proactive about.
We do always get picturescoming in and those are often
(36:13):
the more eclectic homes, becauseI guess often it'll be a PR
person pitching it on behalf of,maybe, a business owner.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Sure yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
It's a real mix and I think yeah, but we certainly
can't sit back and go oh, we'redesign foals.
People are going to just sendus their houses.
I think it's more competitivethan ever.
There's more, you know, mediaoutlets running houses like this
now and we need to be always onthe hunt.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm always curious, like from a, I guess, from any
perspective, from a printperspective or a digital side of
things, in terms of a home,like you sort of touched on it a
little bit that there's sort oftwo facets to it.
There's, you want it becauseit's a particular design firm or
architect.
Is that because there's justgoing to be more PR around it or
(37:01):
people?
There's more interest becausepeople want to know what was
done by that particular designer, or is it more important about
the person that lives there?
So like, does that make a housemore interesting?
I think it's a bit of both Forme.
I'm always quite interested,particularly in the houses that
are a bit more eclectic andlayered and not overly styled,
(37:24):
because I feel like I can kindof see that anywhere.
I want to know about that personand what they do and how they
live, and I think that that's areally that's kind of almost
what makes a good story, andthat you kind of actually want
to read it.
You know, sometimes you don'teven read the story, you just
kind of flip through and look atthe pictures.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting
question.
I think for us we lean moretowards the side of who lives
here and we want to talk aboutthe homeowner and their story
and why that house works forthem and what they were hoping
to create in their space.
So for us, that's our focus.
And also we quite rarely run astory where homeowners are
(38:01):
anonymous.
We really like to name them, welike to take a photograph of
them and so people can see who'sin this house.
So for us, that's our focus.
But I will say there arecertain like architecture firms
that just always get the clicks.
So you know, we certainly won'tsay no to a Kennedy Nolan house
.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I'll tell you how much who says no to?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
that Say along.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
I know.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
But more and more I feel like, again, it's important
to differentiate and I thinkthere are a lot of other titles
out there magazines and othertitles that are covering the
Kenny Nolan houses, and so it'shard to differentiate oneself if
that is your bread and butter.
So, I think for us we do runthose beautiful homes and we
(38:47):
always want to run those homes.
But I think if that were all wewere running, we would struggle
to look and feel different toother magazines and other titles
.
So I think for us we're veryconscious of finding real people
and showing those people andtalking to those homeowners in
our stories, so we have thatauthentic sort of take on it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Do you think that also means that when you're
talking about the homeowner moreand who lives there and
whatever they do, or the family?
Do you think that makes it moreattractive to consumer versus
like the design industry as well?
Like, do you wonder if thepeople clicking through on like
the Kennedy, Nolan House sort ofthing?
Is it going to be more industrybased?
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Well, funnily enough, I mean a Kennedy Nolan House
will always get heaps of clicksjust because it's going to be
stunning house will always getheaps of clicks just because
it's going to be stunning.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, so like it's just that it looks great.
Not necessarily because peopleknow who the architect is, it's
just about how it looks.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I don't think.
Well, it's interesting Industry, so architects really like to
look what other architects aredoing, and architects whose
projects are featured are alwaysvery conscious of how other
architects are perceiving them.
There's a lot of interesting soI mean the industry certainly
will be looking at the latestproject by a big local firm yeah
(40:01):
um, but that's not our mainaudience as I said before,
that's 20 percent of ouraudience so for us, we really
want to appeal to the consumeror the general public, so we try
not to get too sidetracked bythat.
But yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthe name of the firm is really
the clincher in terms of theviews or the engagement with
(40:24):
that story.
I think it really is just thestrength of the design and the
imagery.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, but I think that maybe Kennedy Nolan's not
like the best example to usebecause, well, it's not like a
huge, big turac mansion justwith marble everywhere yeah you
know like their projects reallylean into the design files.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Aesthetic anyway, yeah, there's a bit more, yeah,
more layered, more sort ofeclectic yeah and just like a
like a bit.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You know there's mid-century vibes and colour and
everything like that.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, we don't reallyfeature that many white giant
houses filled with marble.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I feel like that's probably a big hard.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
no, yeah, others that do that and that's okay.
I know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
No, you're right, Kennedy Nolan is, and I am the
hugest fan of Kennedy Nolan.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I feel like they should sponsor this podcast now.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
They don't need to.
They are fine, they've got noshortage of work.
But, yeah, I think it's reallyquite a mix, but we really want
to tell the story of the peoplethat live in the homes.
That's our focus and we feellike that's really our unique
take on homes and interiors.
(41:39):
So that's certainly what welook for.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, I'm really curious about where interiors
meter is going to go, because itfeels like we're going in that
circle.
Right, you're launching amagazine, there's magazines
closing and I feel like we'rekind of on a bit of a precipice
of change in terms of thetraditional print media,
(42:02):
particularly in Australia, andwhat's going to happen?
Will there be another magazinenow come up that's not
necessarily you, but in thatsort of more traditional, you
know, owned by a publisherthat's going to fill the gap for
Inside Out, real Living andthose style of magazines?
Because for me there is likestill a big, even with your
(42:23):
magazine coming in, there'sstill a gap there, for you know
what was those magazines?
So I don't know.
Do you think that there's goingto be?
Do you think that's kind oflike like we're rarely going to
see another magazine launch?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
now in print?
I think it's possible.
When I was at the supermarketthe other day, I saw a relaunch
of Cosmopolitan magazine, yeah,and I was looking through it and
I was like I feel like I'm in atime warp right now.
So maybe they're like the newgeneration.
Do they find magazines, thesekind of cool retro things?
(42:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
I think fashion is quite different and I think all
those sort of women's mags likeCosmo.
I think they have a muchbroader audience, so I think
they maybe make a bit more.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
That's true.
We're in a niche, right theyhave bigger readership.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah yeah, the niche makes it hard, I think.
Look, the pessimist in me wouldsay as a publisher, when I see
a new magazine title, forinstance, um marie claire has
put out a handful and I stillcan't figure out what their
publishing cycle is, it feelscompletely random.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I've put out maybe two or three copies of this at
Home's Marie Claire magazineMarie Claire lifestyle.
Yeah, I see it pop up every nowand then Occasionally.
Yeah, I haven't been able tomake that up either.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
I think it's even maybe once a year I've seen it.
I don't even know if I've seentwo in a year, anyway, but this
pessimist in me would say well,that's not driven by the
audience, that's by the audience, that's driven by the
advertiser.
Meaning marie claire will havean opportunity to sell some
space to a big um home where'suh, you know home advertised.
I think one issue was full of alot of fisher and pike lads,
(44:03):
for instance I mean, I can't getfisher and pike lads in their
glossy fashion mag.
Um well, they're limited in whatthey can sell to a advertiser
like that in a fashion mag, sothey in.
I feel like they just bring outa special issue at a certain
time because there is anadvertising demand for it, and
my feeling is that's not reallydriven by the audience.
(44:27):
It's actually driven by theadvertisers, and I don't think
that's a recipe for success.
Long term is if your only focusis on what advertising dollars
are out there.
Let's invent something that wecan sell to those advertisers.
To me, that's not the recipefor a long-term, you know,
building a readership.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's just not coming from like a space of
authenticity where you wantsomething to you want to express
your creativity you know, thisis what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
I feel like this is what you know.
Everything I hear about themagazines that are in existence
now I rarely hear.
I mean the people that workthere have that.
They have that authenticity.
They're there to produceamazing stories and they still
have that passion for print.
And you know journalism in away but based around interiors.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
But I feel like they're absolutely being
overtaken and driven by whatyou're talking about, and then
that's starting to mold thecontent and then that's almost
the downfall really, I mean, Idon't think we're going to see
another glossy mag like anInside Out that is broad, you
know, that sells a huge amountof copies, like I think what
(45:34):
we're going to see is the riseof niche titles that will have a
very strong you know, probablysmaller audience, many of whom
subscribe directly, which meansthat, you know, is a viable
business model for a smallerpublisher.
But I don't see how Inside Outor Real Living are going to be
replaced by a new title in thatspace, unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
But here's to niche things.
I kind of love that more in away.
I think that you know, ifthere's a select amount of great
things out there, it's alwaysbetter than being driven by
what's going to sell.
Or how do we get thisadvertising into something so
that we can make money Like it's?
(46:21):
I think people start to seethrough that.
I mean, yes, we have to makemoney.
I totally get that, but you canstill do it from a place of
authenticity when you'reproducing things.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think for us.
I mean we obviously have a hugenumber of brand partners and
advertisers and we certainlywouldn't be here without them.
As you said, that's that'scommercially.
You know what is needed to be abusiness and to be successful
and to have longevity.
But uh, I think you know it'sabout well for us.
Anyway, you've got.
We put the reader first andthen we so we go what, what does
(46:48):
our audience want?
And then how do we fund that?
What advertisers andpartnerships do we need to make
to bring that thing to market?
And that's what we've done withthe magazine and that's what we
do with all our content.
So I think any publisher hasthese two sort of stakeholders
in everything we do.
We have our readers and we haveour advertisers and everyone
(47:10):
needs to be happy at the end ofthe day.
But the advertisers are notgoing to get a great result if
the readers aren't there, and ifthe readers aren't engaged, so
you know it's a balance that weplay every day and you find that
good fit.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
So if you know what the readers want, then you can
kind of go.
Who is also going to workreally well with this, whereas I
think when you do it the otherway around it's harder to kind
of make the two things fittogether.
Yeah, you're sort of liketrying to retrofit it and it
doesn't quite gel.
I don't know, that's my twocents on never being in
(47:43):
publishing, but like what Ithink of it from the outside,
it's interesting, though, tohear your perspective.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
It's interesting to hear your perspective, because
you never hear it from thatinside.
Yeah, that point of view.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, I mean, I'm very in it.
So it is really valuable tohear other sort of perspectives.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And you're in the industry too for example yeah,
I'm not immune to the influencesof everything that I hear.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
But I mean, I think you know, with magazines, you
know print magazines sort ofdeclining a bit, I think it
really it's not that they're,it's not that the market itself
is declining as you said peopleare still passionate about this
content.
They still want to buy magazines.
It's just that the medialandscape is so fragmented now
that we get this inspiration inmany different ways and
(48:28):
magazines don't hold all of that, you know.
They don't own inspirationanymore.
They're part of it, yeah, butwe also have blogs and we also
have pinterest and we also havethe instagram influences we love
to follow, and so,unfortunately, magazines, you
know, have their probably youknow 20 stake in in inspiration,
but they don't own it entirelyand I think, uh, that's not
(48:51):
necessarily a bad thing, but itmeans that, as publishers, we
can't be wedded to one channel.
We really need to look at it asmore of a holistic landscape.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
That's literally so well said.
I think that's exactly it, andI think that's where it's all
heading.
I do want to just ask one morequestion, because I'm curious
about this and we've had a chatabout this before about how we
think that blogs are kind ofcoming back and you've got a sub
stack, so we call it oh yeah,which is kind of it's basically
(49:22):
a blog, right yeah, it's like anold school blog again and it's
so fun.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's nice to see.
Yeah, a sub stack thing, aplatform where the creators you
can, you know, subscribe forfree.
But I was blown away at peoplethat wanted to subscribe and pay
to read my content.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Yeah, yeah, so that's really nice to see anything
sometimes, yeah, I just actuallydo.
It wasn't why I was doing it.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
I was just wanting to put my ideas out there, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
But um, yeah, it's kind of nice to see blogs almost
come back in a different wayagain yeah yeah, from a
different perspective well, Ithink you know that speaks to
sort of the, the importance of,of trusted voices, and you know,
like, the value of of certainbrands and certain voices in
(50:11):
this space, and I think it's notnecessarily about reaching
millions of people, it's abouthaving a small but loyal
following, you know, and thatcan be enough If there's one
publisher.
I mean, it's happening a lotwith food writers, where they've
, you know, they're generatingthese great recipes and they're
really forging a whole newbusiness by having subscribers
(50:34):
that directly subscribe to theirSubstack.
And you know it's quite aninteresting space.
I don't know how, if there's acapacity people have for, like,
how many Substacks can yousubscribe to?
It's sort of like Netflix, likehow many?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
can you actually?
Speaker 3 (50:50):
I know I've got a small handful I subscribe to and
I just can't read them all yeah, and I mean you sort of have a
limit of like how much outlayyou're willing to spend in any
given month.
Just on content, I think yeah,but it is encouraging that
people are seeing the value ingood content and voices they
trust, and enough to to invest alittle bit each month in those
(51:10):
voices yeah yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
yeah, well, I reckon we've almost well, we probably
haven't exhausted the topic.
We could keep going, but wemight want to wrap it up.
Yeah, but yeah, I think thatwe've covered so many great
things.
Thank you, lucy, for youramazing input and wealth of
knowledge.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Thank you, I hope I said something valuable and
clear.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Oh no, absolutely, Well, I've got one question Do
you have a favourite story fromyour magazine?
Speaker 3 (51:40):
Yeah, okay, so one that I'm really I mean Misty
Higgins' House Aside, which wasa bit of a fangirl moment.
One story which is a greatexample of a story that probably
wouldn't necessarily, you know,be one that goes nuts online
but I think hopefully peoplewill engage with in the mag is I
(52:01):
wrote this story about anIndigenous housing collective in
Northern Territory, and so it'sjust a really great story about
people that have come togetherwith Indigenous leaders and sort
of are doing this reallyinnovative and quite meaningful
project where they really wantto just design better housing
(52:23):
for Indigenous people living outin remote communities, and so
the organisation is called WiljaJanta and yeah, that's just a
really it's close to my heartbecause I wrote that story and
also I just feel like it's astory that deserves this moment
(52:43):
in the spotlight in a way thatit might not get online.
So that's that's.
That's a cool one, that isamazing.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Actually, I think that's gonna um spark a lot of
interest for people who don'tknow a lot about it too.
Because you've got such a greataudience, they're going to want
to kind of like okay, what isthis about?
And yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Opening people's eyes to things that maybe they just
wouldn't necessarily.
Yeah, so they wouldn'tnecessarily click on it, but
they're going to come across itin the magazine and maybe it'll
get that kind of hold, thatvalue for them.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, I think so.
So, yeah, hopefully there'll bestories like that in every
issue.
That can just, um, yeah, likelead people somewhere that they
might not expect to, you know,go uh, but hopefully it will be,
um, yeah, a way to tell somenew stories in new ways, and
that's yeah, that's just a goodexample of of that for our
launch issue.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, perfect well, I feel like we've had the best
chat and, um, it's just a goodexample of that for our launch
issue.
Yeah, perfect.
Well, I feel like we've had thebest chat and it's been a very
big pleasure to have you here,lucy.
I would like to say that we aregoing to have some extra
content on our YouTube channel,which will be Lucy revealing
some things that nobody elseknows about and her life.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
No pressure, no pressure.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
So do pop over for that bonus content.
We would love you to hear thatas well, but for now, thank you,
and thank you, lauren.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Thank you.
Thanks for the chat.
It's so fun.
Thank you so much for having me.
Guys.
This has been a pleasure.
That was such a fun chat withLucy, like she's just so
knowledgeable, she's so down toearth and it's such a cool
insight to that kind of mediaworld, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, she's so amazing to talk to and shared so
much as well, which isfantastic, great knowledge.
So good.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
So remember you guys.
If you're listening in and youwant to make your home magazine
worthy and the best it can be, Ican help you with my course
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
It's been so fun to create thiscourse.
It's all the good information.
And then for interior designprofessionals out there, come
(54:48):
and jump into the Design Society.
I'm helping you with your fees,with your process and marketing
and all the things, and it'sjust such a great community in
there and it is.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
I love the design society.
I've had a lot of fun umconversations in there with that
group.
Uh and yeah, in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for um my up and comingrelease of pre-selected
furniture collections.
So they'll be fun and therewill be some short courses also
to help you style those andgreat trend information.
(55:20):
So it's worth signing up for oh, good stuff, gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
So if you guys wanted to jump onto youtube for that
more visual experience, you can,but I think for now it's over
and out.
Yeah, we'll speak to you nexttime.
We've got the utmost respectfor the Wurundjeri people of the
Kulin nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
(55:46):
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
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