June 25, 2025 • 45 mins
What begins as an accidental career path often leads to the most extraordinary destinations. Luke Fry's journey exemplifies this perfectly—originally waitlisted for graphic design, he reluctantly accepted a spot in interior design at Swinburne University, never imagining it would become the foundation for his acclaimed architectural practice two decades later.
Growing up with a builder father and brother, Luke had construction in his blood. "I was on building sites from the day I could walk," he shares, revealing how this early exposure proved invaluable when he later obtained his builder's registration alongside his design qualifications. This rare triple-threat perspective—interior designer, architect, and builder—gives Luke a uniquely comprehensive understanding of the entire project lifecycle.
The conversation reveals fascinating insights into the challenges of documentation, with Luke noting that "a builder's pet peeve is documentation that's not detailed enough." This understanding fundamentally shapes his practice's approach, emphasizing meticulous documentation as both a design tool and crucial contract document. In an era where building regulations have intensified following cladding scandals, these skills have become even more critical.
After eleven years leading his own practice, Luke's perspective on design has matured beautifully. Where aesthetic considerations once dominated, he now finds deepest fulfillment in how spaces transform clients' lives—"their ability to communicate better, to function better, to foster better relationships." This evolution mirrors his practice's growth from primarily residential work to an expanding portfolio including hotels, hospitality venues, and wineries.
Perhaps most revealing is Luke's current rebranding from "Luke Fry Architecture & Interior Design" to simply "Fry"—a change reflecting his desire to spotlight his seven-person team rather than himself. "It's making it a little bit more about the team than it is about me as an individual," he explains, demonstrating the collaborative spirit that has become central to his success.
Check out Luke's rebrand & follow along on his socials
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, thank you so much, Luke, for meeting with us
for the podcast and I guess, asa way of kind of introducing you
, I thought I would go back intime.
Oh my gosh, how many years hasit been, luke.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I don't know that we should say to be completely
honest.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Give things away 20?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
20 odd years ago.
Yeah, 20, 20 odd years ago.
Yeah, yeah we actually studiedinterior design at swinburne
together a long time ago.
It was like the era even beforeskinny jeans were a thing.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
That was that long ago it was that long ago, yeah
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And now skinny jeans are out again.
So we've we've gone throughmany trend cycles.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yep, it won't be long and we'll be back there.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Exactly.
So, yeah, we studied togetherinterior design and then you
went on to study further, whichI love to talk a bit more about,
but I guess it's been so coolto see you, know, know, your
career just absolutely explodeand just to see the beautiful
work that you're putting outthere.
(01:10):
And I think when I first metyou, um, I was a mature student,
because I was 25 when I started, I think, or was.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I 22, 21, I was very mature, though I was very old
and everyone else was very young, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But you were always very down to earth, very kind
and just really.
Yeah, it was like a great groupthat we had back then and I
thought it would be great justto get in touch with you again
and yeah, see what's going on.
And the funny thing was, youknow, I was driving on the way
(01:47):
to meet someone yesterday and Isaw your name in big font on the
hoarding of a renovation.
I was like, oh, look at that,there's.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Luke.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll be chatting to him tomorrow, so you know it's
really cool because you study?
With the group and then you allgo off onto your own things and
it's just beautiful to see youknow how successful you've been
and, yeah, it's a really coolthing.
What about you, brie?
How do you know?
Luke?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I don't know Luke at all.
I've literally just met Luke.
I mean, obviously I've had alittle look at your work and
Lauren has definitely talked youup, as she just did then.
So, yeah, I'm super curious.
I'm going to be hearingeverything for the first time in
what you've got to say and whoyou are.
So, yeah, it's actually unusual.
(02:36):
I don't think we've actuallyhad someone on that.
I don't actually know.
So this is a first.
Cool Must be good, it'sexciting.
Yeah, it's always good to meetnew people.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
this is a first, cool Must be good.
It's exciting, surely?
Yeah, it's always good to meetnew people.
Absolutely Well, I think I meanvery kind words, lauren.
Thank you, it was a long timeago.
A lot's changed since then, youknow.
We're so married and kids andall that kind of stuff, and it's
a stark contrast to what it wasback then.
But I'm glad to hear that youthought that I was down to earth
(03:04):
and all those kinds of things,because I just think I was a
little rat bag you know, backthen Were you, I can't remember.
Probably.
But yeah, look, a lot haschanged.
Yeah, I mean, and that groupwas a lovely group of people
that I feel like if you bumpinto anyone, even today, there's
(03:32):
this kind of connection therethat's always going to remain.
And I don't know that I hadthat as much with other groups
when I was studying.
It was a really nice littlegroup that we had, so cool?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, that is really cool.
You often make really corefriends then, don't you?
In that stage of your life, thecollege years, we'll call them,
yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It's true, because I think you know in school primary
school, high school you're all.
Just what you've got in commontogether is that you're the same
age and you're just all lumpedtogether.
But I think when you go touniversity it's like oh, these
are my people, we have commoninterests, and it's not just
about we're in the same location, same age.
It's kind of nice.
(04:16):
So after we did our interiordesign degree, what did you do
after that?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I continued studying and did architecture after that.
So another.
I got a year of dispensations,but another four years of study
after that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So I was at uni for seven years A long time, isn't
it?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah yeah, but it was , I felt like it was always
meant to be, and that interiorswas kind of just the beginning.
It was a very it was a naturalprogression for me, totally, it
wasn't a chore or anything likethat.
Yeah, I feel like it would havebeen, you know, unfinished if I
had just stopped there.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Fair enough.
I love the fact that you're anarchitect who started in
interior design, because I feellike it's usually the other way
around if they've becomeinterested in interiors not
necessarily move to that, but tohave that sort of you know as
part of what you do.
So that's kind of cool.
But why did you chooseinteriors first, do you think?
And then you realised youwanted to do architecture?
(05:17):
Like, how did that evolve?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Good question.
I actually didn't apply forinteriors at all.
I applied for graphic design atSwinburne and you might
remember back then the way thecourses were structured was that
your first year of universitywas kind of a general year, Like
you did classes, you sharedclasses with graphic designers
(05:42):
and industrial designers andwhatnot, and the graphic design
course was full.
So they offered me a positionin interiors and said you can
transfer at the end of firstyear and I just decided at the
end of first year that I wasn'tgoing to transfer and that was
the path I was going to take.
(06:02):
And I decided at that point intime that I was going to go on
to architecture after interiors.
So it was very early on that Ikind of made that decision to do
it.
But rather than finish thereand go straight to architecture,
it was only an extra year ofstudy, I think, to do both.
So that's what I did.
That's my story, for you knowmy uni days.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
So you're an accidental designer, Well.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I was much more interested in graphics then than
I was.
You know the built form.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Do you ever think about, if you had have got into
the graphic design course,whether you would have taken a
different path, or do you thinkyou still would have ended up
back in sort of architecturalinteriors?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I don't know, I don't know one of my cousins one of
my cousins, um, is a graphicdesigner and he was sort of you
know, an inspiration to moveinto that industry.
So that's, that's where myinterest came from there.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
But um, here we are, you know I know isn't it strange
how like those few years whenyou sort of graduate high school
, they're just you know.
One little decision can justchange your whole course of life
.
It's kind of wild when youthink about it, but am I seeming
to remember was your, are yourfamily?
Is your dad a builder?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
my dad and my brother are.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I mean, construction's always been a big
part of my life, from the day Iwas born, basically.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You had no choice.
You tried to fight it.
You were like I'm going to dographic design, but the universe
, but the fate said no, yeah,yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
There's probably a psychologist out there, you know
, looking at me in terms ofnature versus nurture, and has
all the answers to that.
But it's not like architectureand interiors was foreign to me
at all, and more so, obviously,construction.
But I was on building sitesfrom you know the day I could
walk, basically, and we werebuilding and selling houses and
(08:05):
doing all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So it was all just it's the norm to me yeah, right,
yeah, so I guess that'sprobably informed your practice
today, right?
So can you tell us a bit aboutyour work and how your practice
kind of works?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
yeah, well, we're both architecture and interior
design, obviously.
Um, our team are botharchitects and interior
designers.
Um, we do most of our projects,inclusive of both um
disciplines, but don't reallysee much of a line between the
two.
Um, but then we will also do,you know, architecture-only
(08:45):
projects and interiordesign-only projects as well.
We're collaborating with otherarchitects and other interior
designers if that's what theproject calls for.
Otherwise, we'll just do thoseservices you know, sort of
independently as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Great, it's good to have that versatility and, I
think, that understanding aswell.
Yeah, because you know I'm aninterior designer, bree's an
interior designer, so when weget called in with an architect,
you know it's such acollaborative process.
At the end of the day, it's onehouse, so there is no line
between them, but sometimes whenwe work it's very separate and
(09:21):
it can be a little bit jarring.
So I think you know for yourapproach.
You know if you're working withan architect, you obviously
know what kind of I don't knowhow they want to collaborate,
and that must make it a bit moreseamless for them as well.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, I was just going to say what about the
building side of things?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah Well, I was doing some projects with my dad
years and years ago and the ideawas floated at that time to do
design and construct kind ofpractice.
You know, this was very earlyearly days where we were still
sort of finding our feet andexploring things, and in the end
(10:01):
that didn't eventuate but Idecided to do it myself.
So I went and got my builder'sregistration and started a
construction company.
And yeah, built a couple ofprojects where I was both the
designer and the builder andultimately, you know that's all
(10:22):
wrapped up.
Now we're not doing that anylonger.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I was going to say because, like the industry,
can't handle a triple threat,You're an interior design
architecture and builder.
I'm like come on leave someroom for the rest of us to get
in somewhere.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You're fluffing cushions too, Luke.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Which is too much.
So the time I had uh, I had one, I had my son was born and then
, during these two projects, mydaughter was born.
Um, you know, they're only 14months apart, and did you say 14
months?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
yeah, yeah wow, okay, because my my daughters are 17
months apart, but that's nextlevel.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, that's a lot, yeah, and life was just a little
bit crazy, yeah, so we gave upon that approach and just looked
at you know, really what wewere trying to achieve out of it
, and looking at ways in whichwe could still improve our
processes, improve projectdelivery, you know, give our
(11:28):
clients better service, betteroutcomes, uh, all those sorts of
things.
And and there's there's also aninterest from my perspective to
do my own projects as well um,so, you know, that's something
that we are doing currently, butjust not where I am wearing the
builder's cap.
It's just a different,different approach, because
(11:50):
there's, um, you know, you canonly do so much you're only one
person.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, how many hats can one person pile on their
head?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
that's.
That's the age-old question,right before they all start
falling off, exactly before itstarts to unravel.
Yeah, so it's.
It's really just the the loveof creating, creating buildings
and exploring ways in which wecan do that.
That's been the driving forcebehind it all, I think, but very
(12:19):
glad I did it.
It's made me a better architectand a better interior designer
as a result, just with broaderknowledge, being on that side of
the fence as well, betterunderstanding as to what
builders go through, what tradespeople go through, what drives
them, and you know thechallenges that they face and
(12:39):
all those sorts of things.
So it's been good.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I'd love to speak on that a little bit more,
if that's okay.
Like, can you give us someexamples of.
You know, from a designer'spoint of view, you know we might
prioritize I don't know.
A beautiful drawing package, Idon't know, Whereas a builder
what from that other side, fromthe builder's side, was there
something that you learned that,oh, I know designers think like
(13:04):
this but builders don't reallycare about that?
Or I wish that designers gavemore of this kind of information
.
Or how is this going to floatin midair with gravity and
everything?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
yeah, um, I think, like I think, in terms of what
builders want versus whatdesigners want, um, I think
builders their their pet peeve,if you like, is probably just
drawing packages, documentationthat's not detailed enough.
Um, you know, there's a certainlevel of documentation that
(13:35):
needs to be produced, andproducing the level of projects
that we want to be producing,that's a lot.
You can't get that outcome withlimited documentation, and that
is just time that needs to bepoured into.
It is just time that needs tobe poured into it.
(13:57):
I think, yeah, that's reallywhat I would say would be what
most builders would be alwayswanting, is that more level of
detail.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I think that comes from the designer or the
architect setting up the projectin the right way from day one,
where they need to be educatingtheir client on exactly why
that's required and what needsto be put into that in order to
get the outcomes that they'reafter.
And I think what a lot ofpeople tend to forget as well is
(14:22):
that the documentation packagesthat we produce end up being
contract documents, so that'swhat your building contract is
based upon, it's what you'rereferencing, and if there's
missing information, then that'swhen things start to unravel on
site.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, and it's not just about the end result in
terms of how it looks orfunctions.
It can affect that budget aswell.
Right, if something's missingand it hasn't been quoted
properly and the designer or thearchitect thinks it needs to
look like this, but if it wasn'tdetailed properly, then the
builder goes well, no, we didn'tallow for it to look like that,
we allowed for it to look likethis.
The assumptions kind of comeinto play, don't they?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
exactly right.
Yeah, and and I think that'ssomething that's probably not
communicated well enough in theearly stages everyone's very
excited to get started and youknow going in with optimism and
you know energy, and they wantto get started, but they're
really not thinking as muchabout the end goal as they
(15:21):
should be, and I think clientsneed to understand that a little
bit more as well, that,especially in the last, you know
, five years, I would that thelevel of documentation that's
been required and the number ofregulation changes that we've
seen, that results in just moredocumentation is pretty
staggering, even just for basiccompliance.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So what kind of regulations do you mean that?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I think there's a lot more scrutiny around details,
materials, all kinds of things.
It sort of kicked off aroundabout the time when all of the
non-compliant cladding and fireissues were happening.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, it has a lot to answer for it does.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So building surveyors are under a lot more scrutiny.
Therefore they are asking formore information.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And more information, and more information.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's a good thing, oh definitely, and I mean you can.
You know?
I think, as you said to yourpoint in the beginning, it's
about educating the clients.
You know, like we can say toour clients oh, we do like a
fixed fee for the design up todesign development, and then we
quote give a fee proposal forthe design, sorry for the
(16:39):
construction documentation afterthat, because we don't know
what that is until we've donethe design, so can't quote for
it before that.
And they say, oh, but if we takethese 3D views to the builder,
you know, for this kitchen andbathroom, do you think that we
could do that?
I'm like you know you could,but you don't know what you're
going to get, Like the drawings,yeah, I mean, you just need the
(17:01):
documentation because you'requoting, you're getting a quote
from the documentation.
As you say, it's a contractdocument and you can't rely on a
tiler, for instance, just touse like mind reading skills to
know which way you want to haveyour tiles.
You know which direction wherethe set out is.
(17:21):
Like all of these tiny littlethings, they're just turning
into huge big headaches and itsimply could be solved in a
drawing.
And actually in my mentor groupin the design society I was
showing them some documentationand it was just done in layout,
sketch up layout, which is very,quite a basic way to do it.
(17:42):
But it's just knowing how todraw and how to add those
details of like oh my God, canyou do a course on that Cause?
I don't know how to do thatbecause you can.
You can wing it only so far,but it's a contract document.
You need to be able to know howto dimension and tag and detail
.
Basically, and I feel like ifyou have just graduated and you
(18:04):
start your own business, there'sa huge, big piece of the pie
missing.
And I feel like I just learnedso much when I worked at
architecture practice when theytaught me how to document
correctly.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's a rite of passage.
I think that we all go throughand I don't think it happens in
one project either.
You know it's something thattakes time.
You need to fully go throughthat process, from concept
through to constructioncompletion.
It's not just something you'lllearn necessarily by documenting
a project and obtaining abuilding permit.
(18:41):
People who really know how todetail have seen that through
and had conversations on sitewith the joiner or the tiler or
the builder or whoever it is,about exactly how that's going
to go together, because justbecause you can draw, it doesn't
mean it can be built, or how isit going to be built.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Well, bree and I, we talked a few weeks ago about our
design mistakes and I think youknow sometimes you just do have
to make the mistakes to go.
Oh my gosh, I can't believethat the cabinet makers drawn it
like that, but if I see itthrough their eyes I'm like I
know why they did, cause Ididn't draw that bit clearly and
, um, that was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I think there's also, uh, there's just an
understanding that you need toget of their processes as well,
like um, uh, you know what arethe limitations of the joiner's
machinery?
How long can you create adesktop, for example, before it
doesn't fit on the edgingmachine?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I wouldn't know, I wouldhave no idea.
And then you've got to combinethat with the limitations of the
I can tell you I've pushed thelimits on that.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And combining that with the limitations of the
materials too.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Right, exactly, yeah, there's a lot to know, yeah,
there of the materials too,right, like Exactly yeah,
there's a lot to know, yeah,there's a lot of things that
people just you just don't knowinitially.
And until you've gone throughit, you know over and over again
, you've tested it, you've andeven you know, you've visited
that joiners workshop orwhatever it is you know.
I would just encourage anyoneyou know that's just starting
out to get your hands dirty,because that's the way you'll
(20:11):
learn and you'll be way morevaluable in the long run to the
other people that you're workingwith and you won't be that
frustrating designer thatthey've got to deal with.
You can actually bring value,bring knowledge, and that's much
more part of the collaborativeprocess.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
I love that and it is a collaboration.
At the end of the day, we mighthave a design intent, but I'm
not a cabinet maker, so I wantto use their knowledge like.
Let's put our heads togetherand figure this out.
They're across all the latesthardware and you know all the
stuff that you don't see, thatthey just make it look so easy
and something just arrives onsite like magic, it's like, no,
(20:48):
it's been crafted by human handsand like that is.
It's not magic, it's like Imean, it feels like it sometimes
, but every piece has been, youknow, handled and gone through
this process that if you don'tgo to you know, your cabinet
maker's factory or your steelfabricator, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, you do learn a lot you do yeah, it's, it's,
it's it is so I'm curious toknow, because you have worked
across residential.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
but are there any other sectors that you are
working within?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
been a long time coming, but, yeah, it's
something that we're doing tostart to reflect the scope of
projects that we're working on.
That people will start to seevery soon.
And we're really looking toexpand beyond residential not
that we're turning our back onthat.
We love it and we'll always doit but a little more variety in
our portfolio is what peoplewill start to see very soon.
So we've got some hotels,hospitality venues.
(21:58):
We are working on a winery atthe moment.
You know there's a broaderspectrum of projects in the
works.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Wow, that's so exciting.
So what can you reveal aboutthis?
Like, what's the hotel?
What's the winery?
That's so exciting, so what canyou reveal about this?
Like, what's the hotel?
What's the winery?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Like, I want to know the first, we've got two, at the
moment two hotels.
The first one is our project ismore of a live music venue,
outdoor beer garden,entertainment space, you know,
kitchens and bars and all ofthose sorts of things.
It's not accommodation as such.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Where's this?
It's in Torquay Surf Coast ohamazing Because Corey and I we
like to go and see live music,don't we Bree?
I like wine, I like music, Ilike the beach.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
We're expecting an invite to the opening.
I think is what we're sayingyes speech yeah, we're expecting
an invite to the opening.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I think is what we're saying.
Yeah, well, it's a, it's aboutto start construction.
Um, it's been a few years inthe making, um, so yeah, it's
very exciting very exciting thatsounds amazing cool.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I was gonna say um, with those sort of projects
coming from residential, do youfind that you kind of get to be
a bit more creative, I guess,and push the boundaries a little
bit more?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
In different ways.
Yes, I've been involved inprojects like that before
starting my own practice, and sohave members of the team as
well.
We've done a lot of, you knowhospitality, hotel, you know
workplace projects, so it's notunfamiliar to us.
But it's nice to be justthinking differently and facing
(23:38):
different challenges and, yes,pushing the boundaries, for sure
.
But it's not to say that wedon't get to do that in
residential projects, because wecertainly don't.
It's just differentfunctionalities and different
agendas and priorities and allof those sorts of things.
So it keeps us, I think itkeeps us sharp, and you know,
(24:01):
one project informs another, andyou know holistically it's
making us better.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, cool, yeah, like different I mean a whole
different brief like a venue, ahotel.
You know ultimately they needto turn a profit, whereas if
it's a residential home, it's amotive and you're dealing with
those.
You know that wishlist andtrying to fit it within the
budget.
It must be a totally differenttype of project and you know you
(24:27):
mentioned your team before.
How many people have you got inyour team?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We've got seven at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So a good number.
I don't know about managingmany more than that myself, but
a good number to be.
You know, doing a variety ofprojects where we can put the If
it's a larger project.
Or you know, alternatively, wecan split that up and take on
(24:57):
multiple.
You know residential projects,for example, but yeah, it's not
something that I ever want toget out of control.
In terms of, you know, the teamthat we've got, it's more about
quality rather than thequantity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Okay, yeah, I was going to say you often, or we've
had this conversation, butLauren often talks about the
fact that when you have too manypeople, you sort of stop being
a designer or an architect andyou become like a manager of
people and you sort of lose thata little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, and that's not why any of us and
Seven does seem like a fairlybig team yeah.
It's not why any of us startedin the profession, right, you
know?
I don't ever want to be notpicking up a pen, that's for
sure.
But yeah, it's funny, thingsevolve over time.
I've had my practice 11 yearsnow and interests and things
(25:48):
that drive me have changed overthat time well and truly.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
How?
So when you started yourpractice, what did you see it
being?
And now, where do you want tobe in another five years or so
time?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I mean it started quite accidentally, to
be completely honest, just witha friend's project, that I was
working at another practice andwas offered the opportunity and
took it on a whim, basically.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You started your business on a whim.
Pretty much I love it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
It's always a good foundation.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I feel like a lot of it starts that way, though right
, there was no business plan,let me put it that way.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It was just an opportunity to do a project.
I was interested.
I always wanted to work formyself and I just thought, you
know, if the project is done andanother one you know doesn't
come along, I'll go back topractice again for somebody else
.
But you know, one projectturned into another, turned into
another, and before you know it, you're, you know, 11 years
(26:47):
down the track.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, I sort of feel quite similar to that, because I
think, yeah, I'm probably about12 or so years of my business
and it was.
It was just one person reachingout and you know I didn't have
a business yet, but you do oneproject and get it photographed
and do all the things and thenthe next thing, you know, yeah,
and I think for me I sort ofwanted to work on really big
(27:09):
homes and do amazing sort ofstatement, iconic furniture
pieces, decoration, kitchens,bathrooms, everything.
And I think my business hasevolved a bit too in that I
actually find it more fulfillingto work for people that it's
really changing their life.
Like I know that sounds cornyand stuff, but it changes.
It's not just about like livingin a perfect showroom, it's
(27:31):
really you know the family andthe kids and their memories.
It's like a backdrop for theirwhole life.
It's just really I find thatreally fulfilling.
So, like for you, have you,have your sort of goals been
different or changed throughoutyour sort of business?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, I think you realize that after time, where
it's more about there's more joyto be had from the end user's
experience and whether that's afamily, you know their ability
to communicate better, tofunction better, you know to
foster better relationships.
All of those sorts of thingsare really rewarding and it's
(28:07):
not something that you canexplain to someone initially
Totally.
They've got to live in the home, live in the project for
sometimes years before theyfully understand that and
appreciate that.
From a commercial perspective,you know if we're working with
another business.
You know a hotelier or adeveloper or whatever.
(28:28):
Their drivers are different,but you know there's reward in
giving them what they're seekingas well.
Yeah, whether that's betteroperations or more customers or
whatever that looks like, you'refocused on the end goal and the
outcomes and the way you'regoing to improve somebody's life
(28:50):
, rather than the initialprocess.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, you're right.
Though it is hard tocommunicate to a client how much
they're, you know, speaking forresidential, how much their
lifestyle is going to change,and you know it does take a
while for that to kind ofpercolate, for them to live in
the space, for that to becomeappreciated.
But it's just so fulfilling,like we've been invited to
clients' Christmas parties andthis kind of thing, and the way
(29:16):
they speak about their home,they're so house proud and it's
just like really nice.
That's not how I reallyimagined.
You just don't know.
You just don't know what youdon't know, I guess.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah Well, I think, as designers, when you start in
the industry, you're reallydesigning for yourself.
You're designing because youhave an interest in interiors or
in architecture and youruniversity projects, for example
, you're effectively the clientin a way.
You're not getting thatfulfillment yet.
You're not understanding theimpact that you can have on
(29:49):
someone's life, and it's notuntil you've executed some
projects and seen it and livedit that that starts to become
more of a reality and more of adriver.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Now, when I looked on your website before, I noticed
that you do some work in theMansfield area.
Are you still working in thatregion?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, well, that's where I grew up, in the high
country.
Oh, cool so that's my wife andI and our kids.
We went and moved up there fora year during COVID.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Oh, like so, many.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, because Melbourne was such a lovely
place to be at that time, so wewere doing some projects up
there on Mount Bulla, inMansfield itself and the
surrounding area.
But yeah, I think regionalprojects will always have a
place for us.
We're probably doing about 50%of projects at the moment
(30:47):
outside of Melbourne or outsideof the capital city.
I should say, as opposed to youknow, yeah, the other half
being inner city.
So we're not really limited bylocation.
We're driven by, you know, thedesired outcome, rather than
where it is or what the budgetis, for example.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah.
So, if somebody was to ask youwell, maybe me, if I was to ask
you, how would you describe yourdesign aesthetic or your design
ethos?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Just to put you on the spot.
It's really hard, isn't it?
I know Thanks.
How would you describe yourdesign aesthetic or your design
ethos?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Just to put you on the spot.
It's really hard, isn't it?
I know, thanks Could have putthat in the question.
Little PDF thing we had there.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It is a hard question to answer because, contextually
, projects vary so much Whetherthat's a renovation to an inner
city property or it's a newbuild in a rural or coastal
setting.
There's different drivers,there's different things that
you need to work with in termsof existing conditions versus
(31:49):
materiality and other factors,so it's difficult to really
define.
But I think we're detail driven, um, we love texture and
tactile spaces, um, and and lovesort of minimal detailing and
things like that.
Um, I think if you were to lookat our website today, you would
(32:10):
probably see a lot of neutral,sort of monochromatic type
spaces.
Um, but that's changing.
You know projects that we'vegot um that are under
construction or about to bephotographed, uh, a stark
contrast to that oh, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Has that been driven by a client or?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
uh, it's been driven by by us, by clients, by, you
know, things just changing overtime, just evolving, just
evolving, yeah.
So I think, moving forward,people will see a lot more
variety from us in that respect.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah.
And yeah, just having a bitmore fun with it, that's cool,
you know it's interesting whatyou said before about you know
the projects that you do duringuniversity and I remember
feeling quite stuck sometimesbecause you don't have that
parameter of a client.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
And it's kind of like you know, you seem like you're
quite responsive.
You're responsive to the client, you're responsive to the site,
responsive to all of thosethings, and then you pull it all
together in a very beautiful,considered way.
But I think that is a greatdesign ethos to have as well.
I'm assuming if you've evolvedand you've changed, it's not
just one, you get this.
(33:18):
It's not like one cookie cutteryou get that, you will get the
sort of same version of that.
So I think that's that's agreat kind of design ethos,
great way to be.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think keeping it fluid is a part of what keeps it
exciting.
I don't really want to do thesame thing twice, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, there's details andthings that we do that we know
work well.
Of course, we have typical doorjam details and things like
that, because that's somethingthat's been refined over time,
but ultimately, we like to takeeach and every project on its
(33:49):
own merits and work to a custombrief that creates a unique
outcome.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, you know, bree, I've banged on about this so
often, about the idea oftimelessness, and I'm just like
why?
Why should it always stay thesame, like stuck in a time,
which time, like I think it'snatural for us to evolve and
change and, you know, explorenew ideas and keep things
exciting.
The way we live changes, so whyshould our space be stuck in
(34:16):
one time?
So, yeah, I think that's thatreally resonates with me, that
kind of idea as well.
Um, I'm curious, uh, though, doyou see any sort of common
pitfalls like that designersfall into that, um, coming from
the builder perspective, or evenyou know interior designers
working with an architect,because you sort of work across
those three, you know buildinginteriors and with an architect,
(34:37):
because you sort of work acrossthose three, you know building
interiors and architecture?
Are there sort of some kind ofpitfalls that we can avoid that
just make everything kind offlow a bit better?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It's a good question.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Tell us all of the secrets.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I think there's other designers.
One thing that's important whenyou're collaborating on a
project and I think everyonelistening would agree with this
if they've experienced it isthat the documentation package
is done by one person, so youdon't have two documentation
(35:12):
packages that aren't coordinated, because that will just
there'll be gaps and there'll bethings that don't align.
I think in the projects thatwe've done where we've
collaborated with otherdesigners, it's always been the
final documentation package hasbeen handled by one practice,
usually the architect.
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I mean even things like when you're drawing the
interiors.
So I draw the interiors interms of joinery, you know
kitchens, bathrooms, that typeof thing.
But I have a building designer.
He submits the plans andeverything to council and we
work together on quite a fewprojects.
So we kind of know what's goingon.
But you know it's things likeelectrical and coordinating that
(35:56):
with the joinery.
You can see those kind ofslip-ups happening where it's
not.
They're not speaking to eachother.
So that's one kind of, that'sone pitfall.
I can think of coordinatingwith the engineers drawings, you
know, making sure thateverybody is putting the columns
in, or whatever, in the rightplace.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's one thing that comes to
mind yeah, I think the otherthing that I'd be curious about
is when there's budgets to meet,when you collaborate and across
where the money goes.
I guess, because, as Laurensaid before, it's still one
project and usually there's likethis kind of overall budget.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And even when you break it down, I know if I'm
looking after something, I stillmassage that around from one
area to another to make it work.
How does that work when you'recollaborating?
I think that comes back tothere being a lead consultant
that's responsible for that andreally establishing from day one
who is responsible for what.
Either it's the architect andthe interior designer is
responsible more for designdirection and things like that,
or perhaps there's a projectmanager, somebody independent, a
(37:04):
third party, that's responsible.
I mean, it depends on thesituation, but it's establishing
clear roles andresponsibilities that'll get the
desired outcome.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And which kind of leads me to sorry.
I was thinking the other thing.
When you're collaborating and Iguess would help if you have a
non-biased person kind ofleading everything is, what do
you do when there's disputesover things, as, in the way
something needs to look Like?
I guess you try and start outby collaborating with people who
are like-minded and have thesame, you know, end goal and
(37:35):
idea, but surely there must betimes when there's a clash and
who's sort of the decidingfactor?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, Good question.
I don't really know how toanswer it.
It's.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Have you had it happen?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
before.
Not really, I mean yes, butnothing that can't be resolved.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know, I think, leave your ego at the door and,
you know, sit down with eyeswide open and try to reach a
resolution, but it depends onwhat it is.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I guess it sort of ends up being a bad
collaboration if it gets to thatpoint I guess A good one is
talking it out and you end upwith a great resolution that
maybe is better than what bothof you thought separately.
So a good collaboration isthose two ideas come together
and you actually get somethingbetter than what it was
individually, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Well, I think it has to be.
Otherwise there's no point incollaborating If you're just two
individual groups approaching aproject and you're not getting
a better outcome.
Well, what's the point?
Because there's plenty ofpractices out there doing
architecture and interiors whocan deliver the project
holistically, without theargument.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Don't you think it's like so much about communication
?
Like, yeah, yes, we design, butI have really tried to lean
into more that client serviceand really try to provide a
great client service.
And sometimes it's not alwaysabout perfect documentation or I
mean not necessarily the bestdesign.
Some clients don't want thebest design, whatever that means
(39:05):
.
Like it's about having a greatexperience with that client.
And even, you know, I had aclient over for a meeting last
week and she was here for twohours and she's like, oh my gosh
, I'm so sorry, Next meetingwe'll try to be quicker.
I'm like, no, this is lovely,this is the service I'm actually
providing, which is I thinkshe's a great woman because
(39:26):
she's a really cool entrepreneur, so we could chat for two hours
, which we always do.
But yeah, it's interesting howI've actually really relaxed on
that and I've leaned intoproviding that client service.
I've got another client who's alawyer.
She does not have two hours tosit and chin wag with me.
She's like a criminal.
(39:46):
What is she?
A prosecutor?
No, she's a defender.
She defends like criminals.
Anyway, she's just like very,very busy person.
Like you have to kind of thenadjust your service to that type
of client as well.
Like I will meet her at, youknow, 3.30 and I'm out of there
at 3.35 because she's got to bein court or whatever.
So, yeah, it's so much more ofthe client experience but also
(40:10):
the design.
I think, yeah, you can do agreat design, but if the
client's not enjoying theexperience, then you sort of
haven't lived up to that end aswell.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So, yeah, it's interesting.
I think that's a lesson thateveryone has to learn, because I
think most people probablystart off with this ideal
scenario where they're thedesigner and it's sort of their
vision and those sorts of things, and I think it's very
unrealistic and it takes timeexecuting projects and seeing
them all the way through beforeyou fully appreciate that and
and understand that relationshipbetter.
(40:43):
Um, because really it's aboutthem and their outcome, their
desired outcome, and giving themthat experience.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
That's exactly right yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, for me,
it's been such a great part ofour practice is just the cool
people we get to work with.
You get an insight into theirworld and it's yeah, I find that
really interesting as well.
So what's coming up with younext, luke?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Good question.
Well, these new projects whichare very exciting.
We've got a new office on theway, which is also good.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Oh great, Where's that going to be?
Brighton which is also good, oh, great.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Where's that going to be?
Brighton, oh, great, so closerto home for me, yeah.
And the rebrand I mean gettingthat out is going to be, yeah,
really exciting.
It's been a long time comingand something that we're, yeah,
really looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
And how has that experience been getting that
going Like, what does it include?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Like a new logo, et cetera, et cetera, everything
it's everything Refined name,new branding, new website, new
domain name, new everything yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Can you say what the name is yet, or is it too early
to reveal?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
We're just going to Fry, oh cool.
Just as a brand, if you like,love it.
Yeah, dropping my first name,obviously, making it a little
bit more about the team than itis about me as an individual,
and just recalibrating, I think,and getting clearer on the
message that we're sending outand describing who we are and
(42:16):
what we do.
Um, yeah it's, it's all.
It was something that you knowI don't think was ever really
done to this level when we firststarted.
We've been working with slystudio on the rebrand um, and
that's been that's been reallyeye-opening, really rewarding
and and being the client foronce is yeah, really really
weird experience.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's so interesting to see how they do their
onboarding and stuff yeah, yeah,like oh, I'm being onboarded
now like exactly right, it'sweird being on the other end of
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
It actually teaches you a lot, I think.
Yeah, so that's that's us, youknow, in the foreseeable future
and just trying to, you know,constantly sort of push the
boundaries and and explore newthings and do projects in
different locations.
You know, constantly sort ofpush the boundaries and explore
new things and do projects indifferent locations, and you
know we've got interstateprojects now and it's, yeah,
just whatever keeps us, you know, excited and gets us out of bed
(43:09):
in the mornings.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Love that.
I've loved catching up.
It's been 20 or so years.
Hopefully won't be another 20or so years.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
No, we'll see you at the talkie event.
Totally.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Well, yeah, hopefully Christmas We'll see.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Exciting Love it.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Fingers crossed, but yeah, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So good, Luke.
Thank you so much for the chat.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Thanks for having me.
Thanks, Luke.
Thank you Bye.
Well, thank you so much, Luke, for meeting with us
for the podcast and I guess, asa way of kind of introducing you
, I thought I would go back intime.
Oh my gosh, how many years hasit been, luke.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I don't know that we should say to be completely
honest.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Give things away 20?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
20 odd years ago.
Yeah, 20, 20 odd years ago.
Yeah, yeah we actually studiedinterior design at swinburne
together a long time ago.
It was like the era even beforeskinny jeans were a thing.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
That was that long ago it was that long ago, yeah
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
And now skinny jeans are out again.
So we've we've gone throughmany trend cycles.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yep, it won't be long and we'll be back there.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Exactly.
So, yeah, we studied togetherinterior design and then you
went on to study further, whichI love to talk a bit more about,
but I guess it's been so coolto see you, know, know, your
career just absolutely explodeand just to see the beautiful
work that you're putting outthere.
(01:10):
And I think when I first metyou, um, I was a mature student,
because I was 25 when I started, I think, or was.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I 22, 21, I was very mature, though I was very old
and everyone else was very young, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But you were always very down to earth, very kind
and just really.
Yeah, it was like a great groupthat we had back then and I
thought it would be great justto get in touch with you again
and yeah, see what's going on.
And the funny thing was, youknow, I was driving on the way
(01:47):
to meet someone yesterday and Isaw your name in big font on the
hoarding of a renovation.
I was like, oh, look at that,there's.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Luke.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll be chatting to him tomorrow, so you know it's
really cool because you study?
With the group and then you allgo off onto your own things and
it's just beautiful to see youknow how successful you've been
and, yeah, it's a really coolthing.
What about you, brie?
How do you know?
Luke?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I don't know Luke at all.
I've literally just met Luke.
I mean, obviously I've had alittle look at your work and
Lauren has definitely talked youup, as she just did then.
So, yeah, I'm super curious.
I'm going to be hearingeverything for the first time in
what you've got to say and whoyou are.
So, yeah, it's actually unusual.
(02:36):
I don't think we've actuallyhad someone on that.
I don't actually know.
So this is a first.
Cool Must be good, it'sexciting.
Yeah, it's always good to meetnew people.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
this is a first, cool Must be good.
It's exciting, surely?
Yeah, it's always good to meetnew people.
Absolutely Well, I think I meanvery kind words, lauren.
Thank you, it was a long timeago.
A lot's changed since then, youknow.
We're so married and kids andall that kind of stuff, and it's
a stark contrast to what it wasback then.
But I'm glad to hear that youthought that I was down to earth
(03:04):
and all those kinds of things,because I just think I was a
little rat bag you know, backthen Were you, I can't remember.
Probably.
But yeah, look, a lot haschanged.
Yeah, I mean, and that groupwas a lovely group of people
that I feel like if you bumpinto anyone, even today, there's
(03:32):
this kind of connection therethat's always going to remain.
And I don't know that I hadthat as much with other groups
when I was studying.
It was a really nice littlegroup that we had, so cool?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, that is really cool.
You often make really corefriends then, don't you?
In that stage of your life, thecollege years, we'll call them,
yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It's true, because I think you know in school primary
school, high school you're all.
Just what you've got in commontogether is that you're the same
age and you're just all lumpedtogether.
But I think when you go touniversity it's like oh, these
are my people, we have commoninterests, and it's not just
about we're in the same location, same age.
It's kind of nice.
(04:16):
So after we did our interiordesign degree, what did you do
after that?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I continued studying and did architecture after that.
So another.
I got a year of dispensations,but another four years of study
after that.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So I was at uni for seven years A long time, isn't
it?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah yeah, but it was , I felt like it was always
meant to be, and that interiorswas kind of just the beginning.
It was a very it was a naturalprogression for me, totally, it
wasn't a chore or anything likethat.
Yeah, I feel like it would havebeen, you know, unfinished if I
had just stopped there.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Fair enough.
I love the fact that you're anarchitect who started in
interior design, because I feellike it's usually the other way
around if they've becomeinterested in interiors not
necessarily move to that, but tohave that sort of you know as
part of what you do.
So that's kind of cool.
But why did you chooseinteriors first, do you think?
And then you realised youwanted to do architecture?
(05:17):
Like, how did that evolve?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Good question.
I actually didn't apply forinteriors at all.
I applied for graphic design atSwinburne and you might
remember back then the way thecourses were structured was that
your first year of universitywas kind of a general year, Like
you did classes, you sharedclasses with graphic designers
(05:42):
and industrial designers andwhatnot, and the graphic design
course was full.
So they offered me a positionin interiors and said you can
transfer at the end of firstyear and I just decided at the
end of first year that I wasn'tgoing to transfer and that was
the path I was going to take.
(06:02):
And I decided at that point intime that I was going to go on
to architecture after interiors.
So it was very early on that Ikind of made that decision to do
it.
But rather than finish thereand go straight to architecture,
it was only an extra year ofstudy, I think, to do both.
So that's what I did.
That's my story, for you knowmy uni days.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
So you're an accidental designer, Well.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I was much more interested in graphics then than
I was.
You know the built form.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Do you ever think about, if you had have got into
the graphic design course,whether you would have taken a
different path, or do you thinkyou still would have ended up
back in sort of architecturalinteriors?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I don't know, I don't know one of my cousins one of
my cousins, um, is a graphicdesigner and he was sort of you
know, an inspiration to moveinto that industry.
So that's, that's where myinterest came from there.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
But um, here we are, you know I know isn't it strange
how like those few years whenyou sort of graduate high school
, they're just you know.
One little decision can justchange your whole course of life
.
It's kind of wild when youthink about it, but am I seeming
to remember was your, are yourfamily?
Is your dad a builder?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
my dad and my brother are.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I mean, construction's always been a big
part of my life, from the day Iwas born, basically.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You had no choice.
You tried to fight it.
You were like I'm going to dographic design, but the universe
, but the fate said no, yeah,yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
There's probably a psychologist out there, you know
, looking at me in terms ofnature versus nurture, and has
all the answers to that.
But it's not like architectureand interiors was foreign to me
at all, and more so, obviously,construction.
But I was on building sitesfrom you know the day I could
walk, basically, and we werebuilding and selling houses and
(08:05):
doing all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So it was all just it's the norm to me yeah, right,
yeah, so I guess that'sprobably informed your practice
today, right?
So can you tell us a bit aboutyour work and how your practice
kind of works?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
yeah, well, we're both architecture and interior
design, obviously.
Um, our team are botharchitects and interior
designers.
Um, we do most of our projects,inclusive of both um
disciplines, but don't reallysee much of a line between the
two.
Um, but then we will also do,you know, architecture-only
(08:45):
projects and interiordesign-only projects as well.
We're collaborating with otherarchitects and other interior
designers if that's what theproject calls for.
Otherwise, we'll just do thoseservices you know, sort of
independently as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Great, it's good to have that versatility and, I
think, that understanding aswell.
Yeah, because you know I'm aninterior designer, bree's an
interior designer, so when weget called in with an architect,
you know it's such acollaborative process.
At the end of the day, it's onehouse, so there is no line
between them, but sometimes whenwe work it's very separate and
(09:21):
it can be a little bit jarring.
So I think you know for yourapproach.
You know if you're working withan architect, you obviously
know what kind of I don't knowhow they want to collaborate,
and that must make it a bit moreseamless for them as well.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, I was just going to say what about the
building side of things?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah Well, I was doing some projects with my dad
years and years ago and the ideawas floated at that time to do
design and construct kind ofpractice.
You know, this was very earlyearly days where we were still
sort of finding our feet andexploring things, and in the end
(10:01):
that didn't eventuate but Idecided to do it myself.
So I went and got my builder'sregistration and started a
construction company.
And yeah, built a couple ofprojects where I was both the
designer and the builder andultimately, you know that's all
(10:22):
wrapped up.
Now we're not doing that anylonger.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I was going to say because, like the industry,
can't handle a triple threat,You're an interior design
architecture and builder.
I'm like come on leave someroom for the rest of us to get
in somewhere.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You're fluffing cushions too, Luke.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Which is too much.
So the time I had uh, I had one, I had my son was born and then
, during these two projects, mydaughter was born.
Um, you know, they're only 14months apart, and did you say 14
months?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
yeah, yeah wow, okay, because my my daughters are 17
months apart, but that's nextlevel.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, that's a lot, yeah, and life was just a little
bit crazy, yeah, so we gave upon that approach and just looked
at you know, really what wewere trying to achieve out of it
, and looking at ways in whichwe could still improve our
processes, improve projectdelivery, you know, give our
(11:28):
clients better service, betteroutcomes, uh, all those sorts of
things.
And and there's there's also aninterest from my perspective to
do my own projects as well um,so, you know, that's something
that we are doing currently, butjust not where I am wearing the
builder's cap.
It's just a different,different approach, because
(11:50):
there's, um, you know, you canonly do so much you're only one
person.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, how many hats can one person pile on their
head?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
that's.
That's the age-old question,right before they all start
falling off, exactly before itstarts to unravel.
Yeah, so it's.
It's really just the the loveof creating, creating buildings
and exploring ways in which wecan do that.
That's been the driving forcebehind it all, I think, but very
(12:19):
glad I did it.
It's made me a better architectand a better interior designer
as a result, just with broaderknowledge, being on that side of
the fence as well, betterunderstanding as to what
builders go through, what tradespeople go through, what drives
them, and you know thechallenges that they face and
(12:39):
all those sorts of things.
So it's been good.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I'd love to speak on that a little bit more,
if that's okay.
Like, can you give us someexamples of.
You know, from a designer'spoint of view, you know we might
prioritize I don't know.
A beautiful drawing package, Idon't know, Whereas a builder
what from that other side, fromthe builder's side, was there
something that you learned that,oh, I know designers think like
(13:04):
this but builders don't reallycare about that?
Or I wish that designers gavemore of this kind of information
.
Or how is this going to floatin midair with gravity and
everything?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
yeah, um, I think, like I think, in terms of what
builders want versus whatdesigners want, um, I think
builders their their pet peeve,if you like, is probably just
drawing packages, documentationthat's not detailed enough.
Um, you know, there's a certainlevel of documentation that
(13:35):
needs to be produced, andproducing the level of projects
that we want to be producing,that's a lot.
You can't get that outcome withlimited documentation, and that
is just time that needs to bepoured into.
It is just time that needs tobe poured into it.
(13:57):
I think, yeah, that's reallywhat I would say would be what
most builders would be alwayswanting, is that more level of
detail.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I think that comes from the designer or the
architect setting up the projectin the right way from day one,
where they need to be educatingtheir client on exactly why
that's required and what needsto be put into that in order to
get the outcomes that they'reafter.
And I think what a lot ofpeople tend to forget as well is
(14:22):
that the documentation packagesthat we produce end up being
contract documents, so that'swhat your building contract is
based upon, it's what you'rereferencing, and if there's
missing information, then that'swhen things start to unravel on
site.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, and it's not just about the end result in
terms of how it looks orfunctions.
It can affect that budget aswell.
Right, if something's missingand it hasn't been quoted
properly and the designer or thearchitect thinks it needs to
look like this, but if it wasn'tdetailed properly, then the
builder goes well, no, we didn'tallow for it to look like that,
we allowed for it to look likethis.
The assumptions kind of comeinto play, don't they?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
exactly right.
Yeah, and and I think that'ssomething that's probably not
communicated well enough in theearly stages everyone's very
excited to get started and youknow going in with optimism and
you know energy, and they wantto get started, but they're
really not thinking as muchabout the end goal as they
(15:21):
should be, and I think clientsneed to understand that a little
bit more as well, that,especially in the last, you know
, five years, I would that thelevel of documentation that's
been required and the number ofregulation changes that we've
seen, that results in just moredocumentation is pretty
staggering, even just for basiccompliance.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So what kind of regulations do you mean that?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I think there's a lot more scrutiny around details,
materials, all kinds of things.
It sort of kicked off aroundabout the time when all of the
non-compliant cladding and fireissues were happening.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, it has a lot to answer for it does.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So building surveyors are under a lot more scrutiny.
Therefore they are asking formore information.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And more information, and more information.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's a good thing, oh definitely, and I mean you can.
You know?
I think, as you said to yourpoint in the beginning, it's
about educating the clients.
You know, like we can say toour clients oh, we do like a
fixed fee for the design up todesign development, and then we
quote give a fee proposal forthe design, sorry for the
(16:39):
construction documentation afterthat, because we don't know
what that is until we've donethe design, so can't quote for
it before that.
And they say, oh, but if we takethese 3D views to the builder,
you know, for this kitchen andbathroom, do you think that we
could do that?
I'm like you know you could,but you don't know what you're
going to get, Like the drawings,yeah, I mean, you just need the
(17:01):
documentation because you'requoting, you're getting a quote
from the documentation.
As you say, it's a contractdocument and you can't rely on a
tiler, for instance, just touse like mind reading skills to
know which way you want to haveyour tiles.
You know which direction wherethe set out is.
(17:21):
Like all of these tiny littlethings, they're just turning
into huge big headaches and itsimply could be solved in a
drawing.
And actually in my mentor groupin the design society I was
showing them some documentationand it was just done in layout,
sketch up layout, which is very,quite a basic way to do it.
(17:42):
But it's just knowing how todraw and how to add those
details of like oh my God, canyou do a course on that Cause?
I don't know how to do thatbecause you can.
You can wing it only so far,but it's a contract document.
You need to be able to know howto dimension and tag and detail
.
Basically, and I feel like ifyou have just graduated and you
(18:04):
start your own business, there'sa huge, big piece of the pie
missing.
And I feel like I just learnedso much when I worked at
architecture practice when theytaught me how to document
correctly.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
It's a rite of passage.
I think that we all go throughand I don't think it happens in
one project either.
You know it's something thattakes time.
You need to fully go throughthat process, from concept
through to constructioncompletion.
It's not just something you'lllearn necessarily by documenting
a project and obtaining abuilding permit.
(18:41):
People who really know how todetail have seen that through
and had conversations on sitewith the joiner or the tiler or
the builder or whoever it is,about exactly how that's going
to go together, because justbecause you can draw, it doesn't
mean it can be built, or how isit going to be built.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Well, bree and I, we talked a few weeks ago about our
design mistakes and I think youknow sometimes you just do have
to make the mistakes to go.
Oh my gosh, I can't believethat the cabinet makers drawn it
like that, but if I see itthrough their eyes I'm like I
know why they did, cause Ididn't draw that bit clearly and
, um, that was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I think there's also, uh, there's just an
understanding that you need toget of their processes as well,
like um, uh, you know what arethe limitations of the joiner's
machinery?
How long can you create adesktop, for example, before it
doesn't fit on the edgingmachine?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I wouldn't know, I wouldhave no idea.
And then you've got to combinethat with the limitations of the
I can tell you I've pushed thelimits on that.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
And combining that with the limitations of the
materials too.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Right, exactly, yeah, there's a lot to know, yeah,
there of the materials too,right, like Exactly yeah,
there's a lot to know, yeah,there's a lot of things that
people just you just don't knowinitially.
And until you've gone throughit, you know over and over again
, you've tested it, you've andeven you know, you've visited
that joiners workshop orwhatever it is you know.
I would just encourage anyoneyou know that's just starting
out to get your hands dirty,because that's the way you'll
(20:11):
learn and you'll be way morevaluable in the long run to the
other people that you're workingwith and you won't be that
frustrating designer thatthey've got to deal with.
You can actually bring value,bring knowledge, and that's much
more part of the collaborativeprocess.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
I love that and it is a collaboration.
At the end of the day, we mighthave a design intent, but I'm
not a cabinet maker, so I wantto use their knowledge like.
Let's put our heads togetherand figure this out.
They're across all the latesthardware and you know all the
stuff that you don't see, thatthey just make it look so easy
and something just arrives onsite like magic, it's like, no,
(20:48):
it's been crafted by human handsand like that is.
It's not magic, it's like Imean, it feels like it sometimes
, but every piece has been, youknow, handled and gone through
this process that if you don'tgo to you know, your cabinet
maker's factory or your steelfabricator, it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, you do learn a lot you do yeah, it's, it's,
it's it is so I'm curious toknow, because you have worked
across residential.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
but are there any other sectors that you are
working within?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
been a long time coming, but, yeah, it's
something that we're doing tostart to reflect the scope of
projects that we're working on.
That people will start to seevery soon.
And we're really looking toexpand beyond residential not
that we're turning our back onthat.
We love it and we'll always doit but a little more variety in
our portfolio is what peoplewill start to see very soon.
So we've got some hotels,hospitality venues.
(21:58):
We are working on a winery atthe moment.
You know there's a broaderspectrum of projects in the
works.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Wow, that's so exciting.
So what can you reveal aboutthis?
Like, what's the hotel?
What's the winery?
That's so exciting, so what canyou reveal about this?
Like, what's the hotel?
What's the winery?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Like, I want to know the first, we've got two, at the
moment two hotels.
The first one is our project ismore of a live music venue,
outdoor beer garden,entertainment space, you know,
kitchens and bars and all ofthose sorts of things.
It's not accommodation as such.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Where's this?
It's in Torquay Surf Coast ohamazing Because Corey and I we
like to go and see live music,don't we Bree?
I like wine, I like music, Ilike the beach.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
We're expecting an invite to the opening.
I think is what we're sayingyes speech yeah, we're expecting
an invite to the opening.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I think is what we're saying.
Yeah, well, it's a, it's aboutto start construction.
Um, it's been a few years inthe making, um, so yeah, it's
very exciting very exciting thatsounds amazing cool.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I was gonna say um, with those sort of projects
coming from residential, do youfind that you kind of get to be
a bit more creative, I guess,and push the boundaries a little
bit more?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
In different ways.
Yes, I've been involved inprojects like that before
starting my own practice, and sohave members of the team as
well.
We've done a lot of, you knowhospitality, hotel, you know
workplace projects, so it's notunfamiliar to us.
But it's nice to be justthinking differently and facing
(23:38):
different challenges and, yes,pushing the boundaries, for sure
.
But it's not to say that wedon't get to do that in
residential projects, because wecertainly don't.
It's just differentfunctionalities and different
agendas and priorities and allof those sorts of things.
So it keeps us, I think itkeeps us sharp, and you know,
(24:01):
one project informs another, andyou know holistically it's
making us better.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, cool, yeah, like different I mean a whole
different brief like a venue, ahotel.
You know ultimately they needto turn a profit, whereas if
it's a residential home, it's amotive and you're dealing with
those.
You know that wishlist andtrying to fit it within the
budget.
It must be a totally differenttype of project and you know you
(24:27):
mentioned your team before.
How many people have you got inyour team?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We've got seven at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So a good number.
I don't know about managingmany more than that myself, but
a good number to be.
You know, doing a variety ofprojects where we can put the If
it's a larger project.
Or you know, alternatively, wecan split that up and take on
(24:57):
multiple.
You know residential projects,for example, but yeah, it's not
something that I ever want toget out of control.
In terms of, you know, the teamthat we've got, it's more about
quality rather than thequantity.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Okay, yeah, I was going to say you often, or we've
had this conversation, butLauren often talks about the
fact that when you have too manypeople, you sort of stop being
a designer or an architect andyou become like a manager of
people and you sort of lose thata little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, and that's not why any of us and
Seven does seem like a fairlybig team yeah.
It's not why any of us startedin the profession, right, you
know?
I don't ever want to be notpicking up a pen, that's for
sure.
But yeah, it's funny, thingsevolve over time.
I've had my practice 11 yearsnow and interests and things
(25:48):
that drive me have changed overthat time well and truly.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
How?
So when you started yourpractice, what did you see it
being?
And now, where do you want tobe in another five years or so
time?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, I mean it started quite accidentally, to
be completely honest, just witha friend's project, that I was
working at another practice andwas offered the opportunity and
took it on a whim, basically.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You started your business on a whim.
Pretty much I love it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
It's always a good foundation.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I feel like a lot of it starts that way, though right
, there was no business plan,let me put it that way.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It was just an opportunity to do a project.
I was interested.
I always wanted to work formyself and I just thought, you
know, if the project is done andanother one you know doesn't
come along, I'll go back topractice again for somebody else
.
But you know, one projectturned into another, turned into
another, and before you know it, you're, you know, 11 years
(26:47):
down the track.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, I sort of feel quite similar to that, because I
think, yeah, I'm probably about12 or so years of my business
and it was.
It was just one person reachingout and you know I didn't have
a business yet, but you do oneproject and get it photographed
and do all the things and thenthe next thing, you know, yeah,
and I think for me I sort ofwanted to work on really big
(27:09):
homes and do amazing sort ofstatement, iconic furniture
pieces, decoration, kitchens,bathrooms, everything.
And I think my business hasevolved a bit too in that I
actually find it more fulfillingto work for people that it's
really changing their life.
Like I know that sounds cornyand stuff, but it changes.
It's not just about like livingin a perfect showroom, it's
(27:31):
really you know the family andthe kids and their memories.
It's like a backdrop for theirwhole life.
It's just really I find thatreally fulfilling.
So, like for you, have you,have your sort of goals been
different or changed throughoutyour sort of business?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, I think you realize that after time, where
it's more about there's more joyto be had from the end user's
experience and whether that's afamily, you know their ability
to communicate better, tofunction better, you know to
foster better relationships.
All of those sorts of thingsare really rewarding and it's
(28:07):
not something that you canexplain to someone initially
Totally.
They've got to live in the home, live in the project for
sometimes years before theyfully understand that and
appreciate that.
From a commercial perspective,you know if we're working with
another business.
You know a hotelier or adeveloper or whatever.
(28:28):
Their drivers are different,but you know there's reward in
giving them what they're seekingas well.
Yeah, whether that's betteroperations or more customers or
whatever that looks like, you'refocused on the end goal and the
outcomes and the way you'regoing to improve somebody's life
(28:50):
, rather than the initialprocess.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, you're right.
Though it is hard tocommunicate to a client how much
they're, you know, speaking forresidential, how much their
lifestyle is going to change,and you know it does take a
while for that to kind ofpercolate, for them to live in
the space, for that to becomeappreciated.
But it's just so fulfilling,like we've been invited to
clients' Christmas parties andthis kind of thing, and the way
(29:16):
they speak about their home,they're so house proud and it's
just like really nice.
That's not how I reallyimagined.
You just don't know.
You just don't know what youdon't know, I guess.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah Well, I think, as designers, when you start in
the industry, you're reallydesigning for yourself.
You're designing because youhave an interest in interiors or
in architecture and youruniversity projects, for example
, you're effectively the clientin a way.
You're not getting thatfulfillment yet.
You're not understanding theimpact that you can have on
(29:49):
someone's life, and it's notuntil you've executed some
projects and seen it and livedit that that starts to become
more of a reality and more of adriver.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Now, when I looked on your website before, I noticed
that you do some work in theMansfield area.
Are you still working in thatregion?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, well, that's where I grew up, in the high
country.
Oh, cool so that's my wife andI and our kids.
We went and moved up there fora year during COVID.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Oh, like so, many.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, because Melbourne was such a lovely
place to be at that time, so wewere doing some projects up
there on Mount Bulla, inMansfield itself and the
surrounding area.
But yeah, I think regionalprojects will always have a
place for us.
We're probably doing about 50%of projects at the moment
(30:47):
outside of Melbourne or outsideof the capital city.
I should say, as opposed to youknow, yeah, the other half
being inner city.
So we're not really limited bylocation.
We're driven by, you know, thedesired outcome, rather than
where it is or what the budgetis, for example.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah.
So, if somebody was to ask youwell, maybe me, if I was to ask
you, how would you describe yourdesign aesthetic or your design
ethos?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Just to put you on the spot.
It's really hard, isn't it?
I know Thanks.
How would you describe yourdesign aesthetic or your design
ethos?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Just to put you on the spot.
It's really hard, isn't it?
I know, thanks Could have putthat in the question.
Little PDF thing we had there.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
It is a hard question to answer because, contextually
, projects vary so much Whetherthat's a renovation to an inner
city property or it's a newbuild in a rural or coastal
setting.
There's different drivers,there's different things that
you need to work with in termsof existing conditions versus
(31:49):
materiality and other factors,so it's difficult to really
define.
But I think we're detail driven, um, we love texture and
tactile spaces, um, and and lovesort of minimal detailing and
things like that.
Um, I think if you were to lookat our website today, you would
(32:10):
probably see a lot of neutral,sort of monochromatic type
spaces.
Um, but that's changing.
You know projects that we'vegot um that are under
construction or about to bephotographed, uh, a stark
contrast to that oh, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Has that been driven by a client or?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
uh, it's been driven by by us, by clients, by, you
know, things just changing overtime, just evolving, just
evolving, yeah.
So I think, moving forward,people will see a lot more
variety from us in that respect.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah.
And yeah, just having a bitmore fun with it, that's cool,
you know it's interesting whatyou said before about you know
the projects that you do duringuniversity and I remember
feeling quite stuck sometimesbecause you don't have that
parameter of a client.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
And it's kind of like you know, you seem like you're
quite responsive.
You're responsive to the client, you're responsive to the site,
responsive to all of thosethings, and then you pull it all
together in a very beautiful,considered way.
But I think that is a greatdesign ethos to have as well.
I'm assuming if you've evolvedand you've changed, it's not
just one, you get this.
(33:18):
It's not like one cookie cutteryou get that, you will get the
sort of same version of that.
So I think that's that's agreat kind of design ethos,
great way to be.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think keeping it fluid is a part of what keeps it
exciting.
I don't really want to do thesame thing twice, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, there's details andthings that we do that we know
work well.
Of course, we have typical doorjam details and things like
that, because that's somethingthat's been refined over time,
but ultimately, we like to takeeach and every project on its
(33:49):
own merits and work to a custombrief that creates a unique
outcome.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Well, you know, bree, I've banged on about this so
often, about the idea oftimelessness, and I'm just like
why?
Why should it always stay thesame, like stuck in a time,
which time, like I think it'snatural for us to evolve and
change and, you know, explorenew ideas and keep things
exciting.
The way we live changes, so whyshould our space be stuck in
(34:16):
one time?
So, yeah, I think that's thatreally resonates with me, that
kind of idea as well.
Um, I'm curious, uh, though, doyou see any sort of common
pitfalls like that designersfall into that, um, coming from
the builder perspective, or evenyou know interior designers
working with an architect,because you sort of work across
those three, you know buildinginteriors and with an architect,
(34:37):
because you sort of work acrossthose three, you know building
interiors and architecture?
Are there sort of some kind ofpitfalls that we can avoid that
just make everything kind offlow a bit better?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It's a good question.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Tell us all of the secrets.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I think there's other designers.
One thing that's important whenyou're collaborating on a
project and I think everyonelistening would agree with this
if they've experienced it isthat the documentation package
is done by one person, so youdon't have two documentation
(35:12):
packages that aren't coordinated, because that will just
there'll be gaps and there'll bethings that don't align.
I think in the projects thatwe've done where we've
collaborated with otherdesigners, it's always been the
final documentation package hasbeen handled by one practice,
usually the architect.
Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I mean even things like when you're drawing the
interiors.
So I draw the interiors interms of joinery, you know
kitchens, bathrooms, that typeof thing.
But I have a building designer.
He submits the plans andeverything to council and we
work together on quite a fewprojects.
So we kind of know what's goingon.
But you know it's things likeelectrical and coordinating that
(35:56):
with the joinery.
You can see those kind ofslip-ups happening where it's
not.
They're not speaking to eachother.
So that's one kind of, that'sone pitfall.
I can think of coordinatingwith the engineers drawings, you
know, making sure thateverybody is putting the columns
in, or whatever, in the rightplace.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's one thing that comes to
mind yeah, I think the otherthing that I'd be curious about
is when there's budgets to meet,when you collaborate and across
where the money goes.
I guess, because, as Laurensaid before, it's still one
project and usually there's likethis kind of overall budget.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And even when you break it down, I know if I'm
looking after something, I stillmassage that around from one
area to another to make it work.
How does that work when you'recollaborating?
I think that comes back tothere being a lead consultant
that's responsible for that andreally establishing from day one
who is responsible for what.
Either it's the architect andthe interior designer is
responsible more for designdirection and things like that,
or perhaps there's a projectmanager, somebody independent, a
(37:04):
third party, that's responsible.
I mean, it depends on thesituation, but it's establishing
clear roles andresponsibilities that'll get the
desired outcome.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And which kind of leads me to sorry.
I was thinking the other thing.
When you're collaborating and Iguess would help if you have a
non-biased person kind ofleading everything is, what do
you do when there's disputesover things, as, in the way
something needs to look Like?
I guess you try and start outby collaborating with people who
are like-minded and have thesame, you know, end goal and
(37:35):
idea, but surely there must betimes when there's a clash and
who's sort of the decidingfactor?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, Good question.
I don't really know how toanswer it.
It's.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Have you had it happen?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
before.
Not really, I mean yes, butnothing that can't be resolved.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You know, I think, leave your ego at the door and,
you know, sit down with eyeswide open and try to reach a
resolution, but it depends onwhat it is.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I guess it sort of ends up being a bad
collaboration if it gets to thatpoint I guess A good one is
talking it out and you end upwith a great resolution that
maybe is better than what bothof you thought separately.
So a good collaboration isthose two ideas come together
and you actually get somethingbetter than what it was
individually, if that makessense.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Well, I think it has to be.
Otherwise there's no point incollaborating If you're just two
individual groups approaching aproject and you're not getting
a better outcome.
Well, what's the point?
Because there's plenty ofpractices out there doing
architecture and interiors whocan deliver the project
holistically, without theargument.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Don't you think it's like so much about communication
?
Like, yeah, yes, we design, butI have really tried to lean
into more that client serviceand really try to provide a
great client service.
And sometimes it's not alwaysabout perfect documentation or I
mean not necessarily the bestdesign.
Some clients don't want thebest design, whatever that means
(39:05):
.
Like it's about having a greatexperience with that client.
And even, you know, I had aclient over for a meeting last
week and she was here for twohours and she's like, oh my gosh
, I'm so sorry, Next meetingwe'll try to be quicker.
I'm like, no, this is lovely,this is the service I'm actually
providing, which is I thinkshe's a great woman because
(39:26):
she's a really cool entrepreneur, so we could chat for two hours
, which we always do.
But yeah, it's interesting howI've actually really relaxed on
that and I've leaned intoproviding that client service.
I've got another client who's alawyer.
She does not have two hours tosit and chin wag with me.
She's like a criminal.
(39:46):
What is she?
A prosecutor?
No, she's a defender.
She defends like criminals.
Anyway, she's just like very,very busy person.
Like you have to kind of thenadjust your service to that type
of client as well.
Like I will meet her at, youknow, 3.30 and I'm out of there
at 3.35 because she's got to bein court or whatever.
So, yeah, it's so much more ofthe client experience but also
(40:10):
the design.
I think, yeah, you can do agreat design, but if the
client's not enjoying theexperience, then you sort of
haven't lived up to that end aswell.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
So, yeah, it's interesting.
I think that's a lesson thateveryone has to learn, because I
think most people probablystart off with this ideal
scenario where they're thedesigner and it's sort of their
vision and those sorts of things, and I think it's very
unrealistic and it takes timeexecuting projects and seeing
them all the way through beforeyou fully appreciate that and
and understand that relationshipbetter.
(40:43):
Um, because really it's aboutthem and their outcome, their
desired outcome, and giving themthat experience.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
That's exactly right yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, for me,
it's been such a great part ofour practice is just the cool
people we get to work with.
You get an insight into theirworld and it's yeah, I find that
really interesting as well.
So what's coming up with younext, luke?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Good question.
Well, these new projects whichare very exciting.
We've got a new office on theway, which is also good.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Oh great, Where's that going to be?
Brighton which is also good, oh, great.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Where's that going to be?
Brighton, oh, great, so closerto home for me, yeah.
And the rebrand I mean gettingthat out is going to be, yeah,
really exciting.
It's been a long time comingand something that we're, yeah,
really looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
And how has that experience been getting that
going Like, what does it include?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Like a new logo, et cetera, et cetera, everything
it's everything Refined name,new branding, new website, new
domain name, new everything yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Can you say what the name is yet, or is it too early
to reveal?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
We're just going to Fry, oh cool.
Just as a brand, if you like,love it.
Yeah, dropping my first name,obviously, making it a little
bit more about the team than itis about me as an individual,
and just recalibrating, I think,and getting clearer on the
message that we're sending outand describing who we are and
(42:16):
what we do.
Um, yeah it's, it's all.
It was something that you knowI don't think was ever really
done to this level when we firststarted.
We've been working with slystudio on the rebrand um, and
that's been that's been reallyeye-opening, really rewarding
and and being the client foronce is yeah, really really
weird experience.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's so interesting to see how they do their
onboarding and stuff yeah, yeah,like oh, I'm being onboarded
now like exactly right, it'sweird being on the other end of
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
It actually teaches you a lot, I think.
Yeah, so that's that's us, youknow, in the foreseeable future
and just trying to, you know,constantly sort of push the
boundaries and and explore newthings and do projects in
different locations.
You know, constantly sort ofpush the boundaries and explore
new things and do projects indifferent locations, and you
know we've got interstateprojects now and it's, yeah,
just whatever keeps us, you know, excited and gets us out of bed
(43:09):
in the mornings.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Love that.
I've loved catching up.
It's been 20 or so years.
Hopefully won't be another 20or so years.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
No, we'll see you at the talkie event.
Totally.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Well, yeah, hopefully Christmas We'll see.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Exciting Love it.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Fingers crossed, but yeah, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
So good, Luke.
Thank you so much for the chat.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Thanks for having me.
Thanks, Luke.
Thank you Bye.
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