August 5, 2024 • 27 mins
Jon Fox talks about his journey into the field o design, his approach to design and how new technologies are changing the creative landscape.
Jon is a Creative Director at Hothaus Creative, a globally recognized design and production firm offering innovative solutions for the television and film sectors. With decades of experience, their expertise spans creative direction in broadcast design, film and digital television production, animation, print, digital media, social media, and editorial content,
Hothaus Creative has built strong partnerships with a wide range of clients in the entertainment industry. They are known for their commitment to staying at the forefront of the constantly evolving creative industry and digital consumption trends, providing a comprehensive suite of services and solutions.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is Design Voices with Daniel Trainer.
(00:05):
We're going to hear from industry professionals and leaders in the field of design.
Today, we're joined by...
My name is Jon Fox. I'm the executive creative director of Hothouse Creative in Dallas, Texas,
which I think means I'm the oldest.
But we've been a company since 1997,
(00:26):
and we specialize in broadcast design, motion graphics, image campaigns, and promos.
We're very happy to have you here with us.
If you could tell us a little bit about your journey into design,
what initially drew you into this field?
I think I knew early on in life that I was going to do something that was art-related.
I was always drawing, sketching, even chalk on a sidewalk,
(00:53):
drawing things with a stick in the ground.
I knew I was going to do something creative.
I really learned more about the avenues available as I went off to university,
and I studied commercial art, visual communication,
and I really wanted to go into the commercial art world, perhaps an agency, that sort of thing.
I didn't really have my mindset on any of the motion or the broadcast stuff yet.
(01:17):
It didn't really exist when I got out of college.
I mean, it was 82, so I mean, this is a long time ago,
and there weren't the avenues available that there are now.
I had to get a job at a TV station in Chicago and do black-and-white TV guide ad paste-up to get my start,
(01:39):
and I sat up there making next to nothing, doing print work, sales one sheets, that sort of stuff,
and I got an opportunity to go to St. Louis as an assistant art director,
work there, and learned the on-air end.
But again, the industry as it exists today was just coming alive then.
(02:01):
There weren't computers.
There weren't—you not only had to come up with an idea, but you had to figure out how to pull it off.
But that took me then to Cleveland, then Sacramento, then Denver, New York, Miami, and then Dallas.
And again, a lot of it was because there weren't companies at that time that do what we do.
(02:24):
There weren't motion graphics companies.
There weren't broadcast groups like they have now.
And so I had to go get hired by each of these different stations and broadcast groups and do all of it internally.
And then once I had done a whole redesign and set design too—I mean, we did all of it back then, print, everything—
and you didn't take that and you're bored.
(02:46):
You're almost like a junkie where you need a bigger high.
You've got to go find that next opportunity.
And it got to the point where I thought, you know, I should go do this on my own.
And so I did and set out and did that and brought me to Dallas, and I'm still here.
Moving into design philosophy processes, how would you describe your design philosophy?
(03:11):
What core principles guide your work?
It's an easy answer, though. Less is more.
I'm a very clean, simple approach to stuff.
I believe in solid design and not just a lot of extraneous stuff, just as eye candy.
I think if you've got a strong logo design, you don't need to have a lot of flash in the animation of it and stuff.
(03:33):
I think it kind of speaks for itself.
I've always tried to approach any design, whether it be print, anything, as what can I take away from this
and have it not affect what it's supposed to do.
It's got to be simple and it's got to work on its own.
You know, again, all the motion and all the flash and all the different, you know, plug-ins and everything make it wonderful.
(03:55):
But if it's not good design to begin with, it's not going to work.
And I think the simpler the design is, the better it works.
And that's just always been my philosophy that less is more. Yes.
Could you walk us through what the typical design process is from concept all the way through to the final execution?
They all vary. That's the interesting part about this.
(04:18):
And I think one of the things that's kept me excited about this industry is that no two jobs come in the same, no two go out the same.
But what we try to do at the beginning is to establish the what is the job supposed to accomplish?
What is what are the parameters? What do you need from this?
And we have a lot of Zoom calls. We meet a lot in person.
(04:41):
We a lot of phone calls. We meet internally with my people, my designers.
And we kind of come up with a rough idea and a time frame and get back with them, see if that works with what they're doing.
And we try to arrange how it needs to be delivered to deliver this.
I mean, if you're doing a news package or something that sort of with that kind of intensity or show package, you deliver the internals first.
(05:06):
All the internal stuff, the lower thirds, the over the shoulders, the full screens and the things that that's up the lion's share of the time.
You know, your opens are gone in four seconds. And then the rest of the stuff has to tell that story.
So we get a job and we look at what it's supposed to do. What is this supposed to accomplish?
And then we put together a plan that we think will accomplish that.
(05:29):
And we then work together with the client to see what changes they need made to that, what what they want to add to it, what they want to take away.
And then we begin delivering the internals first, the animated pieces and everything else comes at the end,
because they have to get the internals and get things in house and begin producing all the daily stuff.
You know, they've got all their news anchor names need to be on the lower thirds or all the other stuff.
(05:54):
And it's that's really the most important thing. So we then deliver all the internals.
We deliver the animation last. But everything goes out each night up on an FTP site.
We get approvals, tweaks. We go back in in the morning and go back into doing whatever we need to do to make the changes and make them happy.
But again, no two really come in the same way. We do a lot of just graphic work.
(06:17):
We do a lot of production work and we do a lot of just post production work.
So we come in three different avenues and they're all different.
But it really comes down to really good communication with the client before you start, because you've got everyone's got to get their expectations on the same page and their understanding on the same page and that sort of thing.
What would be your major influences? It could be a person even when it comes to design. Is there anything in particular?
(06:43):
Probably David Carson as far as print, Saul Bass doing all his old movie posters and everything.
But I'm just influenced really, I think, by the Europeans approach to television and how simple and flat.
And it's more in the cleverness of it rather than a big lens flare or some beveled edge with a light reflection on it.
(07:07):
And we get so caught up in trends and this and that. And they really are about communication, making it simple.
It has taken over in the US here. I mean, I'll tell you that 90 percent of the packages we've done in the last five years, they want flat.
They want flat. They don't want any 3D. They want flat. They want they want the logo to be able to work one color.
(07:30):
You know, it can be full color, but they want to work one.
So, I mean, everything's kind of we're deconstructing everything right now and going with what's the basic core, which, like I said, less is more.
What can we do away with? What is left at the end of taking away all the extraneous stuff? Does it communicate? Does it work?
(07:51):
Is it appealing? And that's really what I think the goal is and stuff.
Now, moving into visual media and visual communication, we all know visual media plays a real crucial role in brand identity and viewer engagement.
So how do you approach the creation of visual media to ensure that they're both memorable but also effective?
(08:12):
I think it really everything comes down to, you know, do the messages say what they're supposed to say?
Can you get your message across? I mean, don't get caught up in and trends and trying to make, you know,
you know, try to utilize something that's trendy and hot right now to just force it on your project and put it in there somehow.
(08:33):
But I think, you know, the messages say what they're supposed to.
It's, you know, don't get caught up in the trends. It's the message that's growing your brand, you know.
And as long as you can still get your message across, I think that's the important thing.
Problem is, is we get so many people that come in and say they want to do something away.
But when you show them something away, it scares the hell out of them. And they're like, no, no, a little more like Channel 12 is doing.
(08:59):
I think that people act like they want something innovative. They want to follow a trend.
They want to do this and they don't really understand why they want to do it.
It doesn't really apply to their project, but it's something cool they saw on TV.
They want to pound that square peg into a round hole and somehow make that work for their project.
It has nothing to do with their project. But we run into that all the time, all the time.
(09:20):
What's the most significant changes?
They may even be just one major change, but things that you've seen in the field of visual media design over the past few years.
Well, again, I got in this in the early 80s. So I got in before, you know, it became I think the coolest.
The biggest thing that I've to start over with that, the biggest change I've seen is the computers coming into it.
(09:45):
And it's not just because of the obvious that it speeds things up. It makes it a big cleaner image and much more simple.
But because I think for the first time, the technology fell into the creative's hands when we got into Adobe and we got into all the stuff that we're doing now.
I mean, after effects and we no longer need to have a compositor and, you know, a Quantel, Henry or, you know, Discrete Logic, Flame or something and an operator on it.
(10:14):
We can now do it all ourselves and we are we can color correct. We can, you know, we can do all this.
We don't. The technology has fallen into our hands, and it has allowed us as creatives to get even more creative because we don't have to rely on editors
helping us put stuff together and other things like that. Audio people. I mean, you know, we can bring in our own audio, do our own stuff, do our own editing.
(10:37):
And it's just that's the biggest one because I mean, I got into there weren't even computers.
So, I mean, to watch how all this has happened, I think most of the people of my generation are gone.
I think they're scared off and, you know, at some point it got to be too much to keep up with or something.
But the last several years, I mean, A.I. is going to push this into the next year or two. But I next generation, I mean, but I think the biggest thing is that the technology has fallen into the hands of the creatives.
(11:05):
I don't think we are dependent on other people anymore to get our message across. We can do it ourselves.
Now we move over to the role of technology.
How do you see the advent of digital technology and all these new media platforms as almost influencing or do they influence your design work, particularly in the realm of visual media?
(11:27):
Well, we're using A.I. to write treatments. But, you know, I mean, A.I. is really just Google at this point.
I mean, you're only as good as what you've put in. So we're not using it for a lot. We're using it for concepting.
We're experimenting with storyboarding with it because there's some incredible stuff that you can do.
(11:51):
But again, we don't want to be driven by the technology. We still start everything with pencil on paper.
We do. I mean, that's just how we started. And, you know, let's think things through.
Let's look at space and balance and composition and those things are important. A.I. and everything is just another thing.
It's like a T-square or a, you know, it's a tool and it's an exacto knife or something back in the day.
(12:17):
But I mean, it's just a tool. It's something that should enhance an idea that exists instead of coming up with an idea.
So again, we'll settle for a typeface that's already loaded in the in the box rather than go, what would be the best typeface to choose for this?
And I think we've lost all that as creatives because we've opted for speed and time and time is money and all this stuff.
(12:44):
And people don't want to pay for that extra time to research and this and that. And I think it's you'll hear me say this more than once.
I think we've gotten to the point where if Adobe went out of business, half of the companies in the world would go under.
The analog approach to me is go sit down, think through what you want to do before you start polishing it up and making it wonderful.
(13:05):
Look at what it is. I mean, good art, as I said earlier, is chalk on a chalkboard. It communicates. It's pretty.
It's well done if it is pretty and well done.
But I think we all get caught up in the tools and we lose sight of the fact that we're selling a concept, not that the treatment of the concept should be secondary.
(13:26):
The concept should be first. What are your thoughts on the use of emerging technologies?
You know, we've got A.I. We've got augmented reality. How do you see those in design?
Do you see them as tools that enhance creativity or as a potential challenge?
I think A.I. is a great thing. Don't let it fall into the wrong hands.
(13:47):
But I think the key is, is that it can be used well and it can be used poorly.
And there can be people that, you know, I think you're going to have a hard time writing a lot of scripts with it because I don't think it writes emotion and things like this and that.
But I think that too many people can get dependent on something rather than use it to enhance what they've already been working on.
(14:10):
And I keep coming back to that, you know, it really comes down to what your initial idea is and everything else and all these others, they can either enhance it or destroy it.
You know, it's it's what it is.
I think it really comes down to the initial concept and how well you're able to sell it to the client and get everybody on board with it.
But A.I. is a tool and it can be a great one or it can be a bad one.
(14:32):
I think, you know, none of us really know how that ends yet.
How would you stay updated with all these latest, you know, technological advancements?
How do you go about it and then integrate them into your work?
Getting, you know, younger and younger people that come in here that this is already second nature to them, that they push you and challenge you and they force you to get better or, you know, you're sitting the bench.
(14:56):
But it's it's just I think that there are so many ways to stay abreast of it. But again, I think it's just user groups, you know, just talking a lot with the staff and things that, you know, that they've been reading independently, that they bring in stuff and say, let's look into trying this.
Let's do this. I mean, it's just constant. It never ends.
(15:17):
It's daily. You know, there's just there's a something breaking every day.
So you've just got to constantly fish out there for what's out there and, you know, what's down top.
Now, moving into the creative challenges and aspirations, what's some of the biggest challenges that you've encountered personally in the industry?
And how did you navigate through them?
(15:38):
Our biggest situation, our biggest issue, and it is kind of what I was starting to go down that path a minute ago.
But it's really that we're based in Dallas, Texas, and most of our work is on either coast.
And, you know, that's the biggest challenge for us is because these people can get this work done in those cities.
They don't need to come to Dallas, you know, and for them to come here and ask us to do it and be involved in it is always a challenge because we are competing against, you know, the big dogs and stuff like that.
(16:07):
But we're always up against the fact that when we go in, we're from Dallas, Texas, we go in and shoot in in New York, obtaining permits, getting and that, you know,
that's the biggest part is that, you know, you go in there and everybody has their hand out up there and just the costs have gotten so out of control and, you know, production crews are through the roof.
(16:29):
And it's just the big trend in America right now is each of the broadcast groups have created graphic hubs.
And you see in the past, like, let's take the Tecna stations here, the Tecna ownership group here.
They used to own like 140 stations. I used to have 140 potential clients.
(16:52):
Okay, I now have one. And if they come to us, we do a package, they version everything out in-house for all the other stations in the group.
And so instead of 140 potential clients, I have one client and then they don't, we don't even do a full package because we just have to do templates, and they have enough people and enough gear that they can take it from there.
(17:13):
So even if we're doing down from 140 to one, we're also doing it for less money, even though we're delivering less. But I mean, it's just shrinking.
It's just there's so many in-house groups. I think people are okay with TikTok technology now. And that's fine. I don't mean to trash anybody doing TikTok stuff.
I'm just saying that we've always been about the big over the top production value and the big beautiful stuff. And it's just not that important anymore.
(17:41):
I just don't think if the money's not coming in, they're not spending it.
And we've just seen a, you know, we're watching companies roll up the sidewalk every day and go home. You know, I mean, they're just done.
And it's very tough to keep it going because the revenues for the stations and networks are not what they used to be. So they're not spending.
And they come in and pay you for one and it goes, you know, out to 140 other people. But they, you know, they paid for it. So it's theirs. They can do what they want. But it's a different time.
(18:10):
I mean, everyone's trying to figure out, you know, what the next thing is, you know, we're hoping AI is a savior somehow, you know, streaming didn't help, you know.
Looking into the future, all the way ahead, what are some of the goals and projects that you aspire to achieve or work on in the next few years?
Is survival a goal? Does that count? No. We're, you know, it's an interesting time. I think that the future just means change.
(18:39):
It just does. I mean, especially every other six month period, every, you know, half year, there's major, major changes.
You have to stop relearn new software, new whatever. But I mean, you just got to change, adapt, grow and survive.
I mean, that's really what the next couple of years are going to be. I don't think anyone knows. I wish there were a crystal ball.
(19:00):
But I think, as I said, I think we all thought streaming was going to be a more successful, you know, endeavor than it's turned out to be so far. And I don't know really what it brings.
But AI is going to play a big role. And again, that can either be a great thing or a bad thing.
And really don't let it fall into the wrong hands, you know.
In your opinion, what do you believe unites designers across different cultures and disciplines in the universal quest to create something simple, functional and beautiful?
(19:31):
I think in all creatives, it's a need for self-expression. I think that you that's if you could find one thing that went across all cultures, all everything,
I think it would be that there is a need to answer that bell. I think that, you know, you want to get up and you want to take a piece of you and put it out there and let everyone judge it, entertain people with it, do whatever.
(19:55):
But I think that it's got to be a real love for what you do to stay in this because this is a hard business, you know.
It's so subjective. You could bring a hang a painting on the wall and bring three people through.
And I say this all the time, show three people, one's going to love it, one's going to hate it, one's going to be indifferent and they're all right.
You know, it's subjective. It's their thing. And I think that what we as creatives need is that outlet and need to express ourselves and need to, you know, I think if I either want to play pro football or or join the circus.
(20:32):
And I got a little bit of both by doing this because they're just it's a beat you up every day and it is a circus. And it's you know, I just think that you have to really love it in order to survive in this industry.
What role do you think design plays in shaping our everyday lives and society at large?
The world would be void of like beauty and creativity and human expression if we didn't have this, you know.
(21:01):
What is it Picasso said there could be no life without art or something. Somebody said that. I don't know if it's him, but I think that's it.
I mean, we've got from your art to your furniture, to your clothing, to, you know, everything. I mean, art drives our lives.
Everything, you know, form always follows function, I think.
Now we're looking way off into the future. How do you see the future of design evolving, especially in the context of global challenges and advancements?
(21:30):
I think that always going to Bauhaus and all that's going to be very important forever.
I think that, you know, it's we all have to learn from what came before us, you know, and everybody had something to say and it shapes where we go.
I don't really know. As I said, I hate to keep coming back to this, but I think AI is going to shape stuff so much.
(21:51):
And, you know, it really just depends on the regulations and what kind of deep fakes we can avoid. Just I don't really know how design is going to change.
But I just think the world's going to change so much that, you know, design will be a part of it.
But I think that it's, you know, it's really going to be about technology, I think, more than design, even, to be honest.
(22:15):
It's an interesting time because you're seeing that as all these groups, like when again, we talked earlier, when a group comes in and buys up another station group, they've gone in.
And when they put in a hub and stuff to handle all the groups, graphics needs, they the stations release all but one of their artists.
And so you're losing local a lot and you're getting into group packaging and things like that.
(22:42):
I think that, you know, local is getting ready to go away and they're really trying very, very hard to try to save that because it is important.
But I don't think that regular TV, you know, linear TV is just not cutting it anymore.
There's just not there's just not an audience out there.
And we can fight that and deny it. But, I mean, we're watching it and I'm seeing the budgets coming in and it's there's it's it's a tough time.
(23:06):
You're saying that CBS News, their national news, network news and all their owned stations, CBS, they share a graphics package now.
They used to the network used to be its own thing and the affiliates were their own thing.
You're even seeing they're going away with like, you know, they don't even have call letters anymore.
(23:27):
They're all CBS 11. They're all NBC 5. They're all whatever.
But I mean, you know, it's all about the networks now. It's not so much local, but they're all preaching local, but they're not really going local graphically.
They're kind of sharing packages and I think pooling resources just simply because revenues aren't where they used to be.
We've lost the human element to a lot of it. I think that it's, you know, and again, this is another AI thing.
(23:51):
You know, what's this going to do to further lose the human element?
So it's just got to continue to be communicative.
I think that we get caught up in, you know, technique.
We get caught up in, you know, when we let the medium get in the way of the message and stuff like that.
And I think as long as design is clean and simple and it does what it's supposed to do, which is, you know, evoke an emotion, communicate.
(24:16):
I think that that's the way it always evolves.
Again, you'll have different techniques. You'll have different, you know, you'll go from having the big 3D logo tumbling through the air
animation to the flat animation that comes in, you know, the very European approach to stuff with the animation.
And I think that, you know, it really comes down to does it communicate? Does it do its job?
(24:38):
The rest of it's just a technique or an approach, you know.
But I really think it comes down to does it communicate? Does it speak to people?
I think you have to look back. I don't think you have to look back as this is a blueprint.
Here's a guide. We've got to start doing this this way again.
I think you have to understand the successes and the mistakes of any past, especially design.
(25:02):
But I think that all of that's important and it's relevant.
And we see it cycle through and show its influence in architecture here and there and other stuff comes and goes.
And I think you have to understand where we've been before you know where you're going.
I know it's kind of cliche sounding, but I think that, again, so many people don't understand the process of it.
(25:24):
They don't. They're more about operating a box that runs Adobe software.
And they're not really thinkers. They're not really people that have gone out and had come up with a concept.
And then they, you know, create all the support graphics for it rather than doing something cool.
You know, this is cool. Let's do this. You know, it's got to solve something. It's got to speak to the situation.
(25:46):
It's got to, you know, it's got to mean something.
And I think that, you know, the stuff that we celebrate, even though it's in the past,
we celebrate it because it meant something, because it accomplished something.
You know, it was something that, you know, you look back and go, damn, these guys were good, you know.
And it wasn't just a lens flare added to it. You know, it's these guys, you know, so that sort of thing.
(26:07):
I think, you know, again, it gets back to actually doing it with your hands rather than just a box, I think, too.
Well, I guess we're at the end. Again, I really want to thank you a lot for taking these questions.
Your insight into the world of design has been absolutely amazing.
If you could give one piece of advice out to aspiring designers, what would it be?
First would be listen. Listen, whether it's the client, your boss, your coworkers, anyone, listen.
(26:36):
It's all about the sum of everything. And if you miss what they're saying, you're going to miss some of it.
But listen, everybody wants to jump in and start doing the listen, hear it.
And probably the most important piece of advice I could give anybody that wanted to go into any creative field at all is - be resilient.
(26:58):
Because you're going to get the snot kicked out of you. You are. And, you know, it's just count on it.
It's going to happen. And you just got to be resilient. Get up, dust yourself off and go back to work.
You're going to get no more than you're going to get yes. You just are.
And, you know, it's and if you're not, then you're probably not asking the right questions.
But I think that it's really about going in there and understanding the situation. And that means listening.
(27:25):
And I think that you may listen and you may come up with what you feel is your best approach that you've ever come up with.
And you may go in there and it gets shot down in a second. And you've got to be able to be OK with that.
It's a tough thing. You're taking a big chunk of your heart and laying it out there and letting everyone judge it.
So it's a cool thing.
This is Design Voices with Daniel Trainer.
(00:05):
We're going to hear from industry professionals and leaders in the field of design.
Today, we're joined by...
My name is Jon Fox. I'm the executive creative director of Hothouse Creative in Dallas, Texas,
which I think means I'm the oldest.
But we've been a company since 1997,
(00:26):
and we specialize in broadcast design, motion graphics, image campaigns, and promos.
We're very happy to have you here with us.
If you could tell us a little bit about your journey into design,
what initially drew you into this field?
I think I knew early on in life that I was going to do something that was art-related.
I was always drawing, sketching, even chalk on a sidewalk,
(00:53):
drawing things with a stick in the ground.
I knew I was going to do something creative.
I really learned more about the avenues available as I went off to university,
and I studied commercial art, visual communication,
and I really wanted to go into the commercial art world, perhaps an agency, that sort of thing.
I didn't really have my mindset on any of the motion or the broadcast stuff yet.
(01:17):
It didn't really exist when I got out of college.
I mean, it was 82, so I mean, this is a long time ago,
and there weren't the avenues available that there are now.
I had to get a job at a TV station in Chicago and do black-and-white TV guide ad paste-up to get my start,
(01:39):
and I sat up there making next to nothing, doing print work, sales one sheets, that sort of stuff,
and I got an opportunity to go to St. Louis as an assistant art director,
work there, and learned the on-air end.
But again, the industry as it exists today was just coming alive then.
(02:01):
There weren't computers.
There weren't—you not only had to come up with an idea, but you had to figure out how to pull it off.
But that took me then to Cleveland, then Sacramento, then Denver, New York, Miami, and then Dallas.
And again, a lot of it was because there weren't companies at that time that do what we do.
(02:24):
There weren't motion graphics companies.
There weren't broadcast groups like they have now.
And so I had to go get hired by each of these different stations and broadcast groups and do all of it internally.
And then once I had done a whole redesign and set design too—I mean, we did all of it back then, print, everything—
and you didn't take that and you're bored.
(02:46):
You're almost like a junkie where you need a bigger high.
You've got to go find that next opportunity.
And it got to the point where I thought, you know, I should go do this on my own.
And so I did and set out and did that and brought me to Dallas, and I'm still here.
Moving into design philosophy processes, how would you describe your design philosophy?
(03:11):
What core principles guide your work?
It's an easy answer, though. Less is more.
I'm a very clean, simple approach to stuff.
I believe in solid design and not just a lot of extraneous stuff, just as eye candy.
I think if you've got a strong logo design, you don't need to have a lot of flash in the animation of it and stuff.
(03:33):
I think it kind of speaks for itself.
I've always tried to approach any design, whether it be print, anything, as what can I take away from this
and have it not affect what it's supposed to do.
It's got to be simple and it's got to work on its own.
You know, again, all the motion and all the flash and all the different, you know, plug-ins and everything make it wonderful.
(03:55):
But if it's not good design to begin with, it's not going to work.
And I think the simpler the design is, the better it works.
And that's just always been my philosophy that less is more. Yes.
Could you walk us through what the typical design process is from concept all the way through to the final execution?
They all vary. That's the interesting part about this.
(04:18):
And I think one of the things that's kept me excited about this industry is that no two jobs come in the same, no two go out the same.
But what we try to do at the beginning is to establish the what is the job supposed to accomplish?
What is what are the parameters? What do you need from this?
And we have a lot of Zoom calls. We meet a lot in person.
(04:41):
We a lot of phone calls. We meet internally with my people, my designers.
And we kind of come up with a rough idea and a time frame and get back with them, see if that works with what they're doing.
And we try to arrange how it needs to be delivered to deliver this.
I mean, if you're doing a news package or something that sort of with that kind of intensity or show package, you deliver the internals first.
(05:06):
All the internal stuff, the lower thirds, the over the shoulders, the full screens and the things that that's up the lion's share of the time.
You know, your opens are gone in four seconds. And then the rest of the stuff has to tell that story.
So we get a job and we look at what it's supposed to do. What is this supposed to accomplish?
And then we put together a plan that we think will accomplish that.
(05:29):
And we then work together with the client to see what changes they need made to that, what what they want to add to it, what they want to take away.
And then we begin delivering the internals first, the animated pieces and everything else comes at the end,
because they have to get the internals and get things in house and begin producing all the daily stuff.
You know, they've got all their news anchor names need to be on the lower thirds or all the other stuff.
(05:54):
And it's that's really the most important thing. So we then deliver all the internals.
We deliver the animation last. But everything goes out each night up on an FTP site.
We get approvals, tweaks. We go back in in the morning and go back into doing whatever we need to do to make the changes and make them happy.
But again, no two really come in the same way. We do a lot of just graphic work.
(06:17):
We do a lot of production work and we do a lot of just post production work.
So we come in three different avenues and they're all different.
But it really comes down to really good communication with the client before you start, because you've got everyone's got to get their expectations on the same page and their understanding on the same page and that sort of thing.
What would be your major influences? It could be a person even when it comes to design. Is there anything in particular?
(06:43):
Probably David Carson as far as print, Saul Bass doing all his old movie posters and everything.
But I'm just influenced really, I think, by the Europeans approach to television and how simple and flat.
And it's more in the cleverness of it rather than a big lens flare or some beveled edge with a light reflection on it.
(07:07):
And we get so caught up in trends and this and that. And they really are about communication, making it simple.
It has taken over in the US here. I mean, I'll tell you that 90 percent of the packages we've done in the last five years, they want flat.
They want flat. They don't want any 3D. They want flat. They want they want the logo to be able to work one color.
(07:30):
You know, it can be full color, but they want to work one.
So, I mean, everything's kind of we're deconstructing everything right now and going with what's the basic core, which, like I said, less is more.
What can we do away with? What is left at the end of taking away all the extraneous stuff? Does it communicate? Does it work?
(07:51):
Is it appealing? And that's really what I think the goal is and stuff.
Now, moving into visual media and visual communication, we all know visual media plays a real crucial role in brand identity and viewer engagement.
So how do you approach the creation of visual media to ensure that they're both memorable but also effective?
(08:12):
I think it really everything comes down to, you know, do the messages say what they're supposed to say?
Can you get your message across? I mean, don't get caught up in and trends and trying to make, you know,
you know, try to utilize something that's trendy and hot right now to just force it on your project and put it in there somehow.
(08:33):
But I think, you know, the messages say what they're supposed to.
It's, you know, don't get caught up in the trends. It's the message that's growing your brand, you know.
And as long as you can still get your message across, I think that's the important thing.
Problem is, is we get so many people that come in and say they want to do something away.
But when you show them something away, it scares the hell out of them. And they're like, no, no, a little more like Channel 12 is doing.
(08:59):
I think that people act like they want something innovative. They want to follow a trend.
They want to do this and they don't really understand why they want to do it.
It doesn't really apply to their project, but it's something cool they saw on TV.
They want to pound that square peg into a round hole and somehow make that work for their project.
It has nothing to do with their project. But we run into that all the time, all the time.
(09:20):
What's the most significant changes?
They may even be just one major change, but things that you've seen in the field of visual media design over the past few years.
Well, again, I got in this in the early 80s. So I got in before, you know, it became I think the coolest.
The biggest thing that I've to start over with that, the biggest change I've seen is the computers coming into it.
(09:45):
And it's not just because of the obvious that it speeds things up. It makes it a big cleaner image and much more simple.
But because I think for the first time, the technology fell into the creative's hands when we got into Adobe and we got into all the stuff that we're doing now.
I mean, after effects and we no longer need to have a compositor and, you know, a Quantel, Henry or, you know, Discrete Logic, Flame or something and an operator on it.
(10:14):
We can now do it all ourselves and we are we can color correct. We can, you know, we can do all this.
We don't. The technology has fallen into our hands, and it has allowed us as creatives to get even more creative because we don't have to rely on editors
helping us put stuff together and other things like that. Audio people. I mean, you know, we can bring in our own audio, do our own stuff, do our own editing.
(10:37):
And it's just that's the biggest one because I mean, I got into there weren't even computers.
So, I mean, to watch how all this has happened, I think most of the people of my generation are gone.
I think they're scared off and, you know, at some point it got to be too much to keep up with or something.
But the last several years, I mean, A.I. is going to push this into the next year or two. But I next generation, I mean, but I think the biggest thing is that the technology has fallen into the hands of the creatives.
(11:05):
I don't think we are dependent on other people anymore to get our message across. We can do it ourselves.
Now we move over to the role of technology.
How do you see the advent of digital technology and all these new media platforms as almost influencing or do they influence your design work, particularly in the realm of visual media?
(11:27):
Well, we're using A.I. to write treatments. But, you know, I mean, A.I. is really just Google at this point.
I mean, you're only as good as what you've put in. So we're not using it for a lot. We're using it for concepting.
We're experimenting with storyboarding with it because there's some incredible stuff that you can do.
(11:51):
But again, we don't want to be driven by the technology. We still start everything with pencil on paper.
We do. I mean, that's just how we started. And, you know, let's think things through.
Let's look at space and balance and composition and those things are important. A.I. and everything is just another thing.
It's like a T-square or a, you know, it's a tool and it's an exacto knife or something back in the day.
(12:17):
But I mean, it's just a tool. It's something that should enhance an idea that exists instead of coming up with an idea.
So again, we'll settle for a typeface that's already loaded in the in the box rather than go, what would be the best typeface to choose for this?
And I think we've lost all that as creatives because we've opted for speed and time and time is money and all this stuff.
(12:44):
And people don't want to pay for that extra time to research and this and that. And I think it's you'll hear me say this more than once.
I think we've gotten to the point where if Adobe went out of business, half of the companies in the world would go under.
The analog approach to me is go sit down, think through what you want to do before you start polishing it up and making it wonderful.
(13:05):
Look at what it is. I mean, good art, as I said earlier, is chalk on a chalkboard. It communicates. It's pretty.
It's well done if it is pretty and well done.
But I think we all get caught up in the tools and we lose sight of the fact that we're selling a concept, not that the treatment of the concept should be secondary.
(13:26):
The concept should be first. What are your thoughts on the use of emerging technologies?
You know, we've got A.I. We've got augmented reality. How do you see those in design?
Do you see them as tools that enhance creativity or as a potential challenge?
I think A.I. is a great thing. Don't let it fall into the wrong hands.
(13:47):
But I think the key is, is that it can be used well and it can be used poorly.
And there can be people that, you know, I think you're going to have a hard time writing a lot of scripts with it because I don't think it writes emotion and things like this and that.
But I think that too many people can get dependent on something rather than use it to enhance what they've already been working on.
(14:10):
And I keep coming back to that, you know, it really comes down to what your initial idea is and everything else and all these others, they can either enhance it or destroy it.
You know, it's it's what it is.
I think it really comes down to the initial concept and how well you're able to sell it to the client and get everybody on board with it.
But A.I. is a tool and it can be a great one or it can be a bad one.
(14:32):
I think, you know, none of us really know how that ends yet.
How would you stay updated with all these latest, you know, technological advancements?
How do you go about it and then integrate them into your work?
Getting, you know, younger and younger people that come in here that this is already second nature to them, that they push you and challenge you and they force you to get better or, you know, you're sitting the bench.
(14:56):
But it's it's just I think that there are so many ways to stay abreast of it. But again, I think it's just user groups, you know, just talking a lot with the staff and things that, you know, that they've been reading independently, that they bring in stuff and say, let's look into trying this.
Let's do this. I mean, it's just constant. It never ends.
(15:17):
It's daily. You know, there's just there's a something breaking every day.
So you've just got to constantly fish out there for what's out there and, you know, what's down top.
Now, moving into the creative challenges and aspirations, what's some of the biggest challenges that you've encountered personally in the industry?
And how did you navigate through them?
(15:38):
Our biggest situation, our biggest issue, and it is kind of what I was starting to go down that path a minute ago.
But it's really that we're based in Dallas, Texas, and most of our work is on either coast.
And, you know, that's the biggest challenge for us is because these people can get this work done in those cities.
They don't need to come to Dallas, you know, and for them to come here and ask us to do it and be involved in it is always a challenge because we are competing against, you know, the big dogs and stuff like that.
(16:07):
But we're always up against the fact that when we go in, we're from Dallas, Texas, we go in and shoot in in New York, obtaining permits, getting and that, you know,
that's the biggest part is that, you know, you go in there and everybody has their hand out up there and just the costs have gotten so out of control and, you know, production crews are through the roof.
(16:29):
And it's just the big trend in America right now is each of the broadcast groups have created graphic hubs.
And you see in the past, like, let's take the Tecna stations here, the Tecna ownership group here.
They used to own like 140 stations. I used to have 140 potential clients.
(16:52):
Okay, I now have one. And if they come to us, we do a package, they version everything out in-house for all the other stations in the group.
And so instead of 140 potential clients, I have one client and then they don't, we don't even do a full package because we just have to do templates, and they have enough people and enough gear that they can take it from there.
(17:13):
So even if we're doing down from 140 to one, we're also doing it for less money, even though we're delivering less. But I mean, it's just shrinking.
It's just there's so many in-house groups. I think people are okay with TikTok technology now. And that's fine. I don't mean to trash anybody doing TikTok stuff.
I'm just saying that we've always been about the big over the top production value and the big beautiful stuff. And it's just not that important anymore.
(17:41):
I just don't think if the money's not coming in, they're not spending it.
And we've just seen a, you know, we're watching companies roll up the sidewalk every day and go home. You know, I mean, they're just done.
And it's very tough to keep it going because the revenues for the stations and networks are not what they used to be. So they're not spending.
And they come in and pay you for one and it goes, you know, out to 140 other people. But they, you know, they paid for it. So it's theirs. They can do what they want. But it's a different time.
(18:10):
I mean, everyone's trying to figure out, you know, what the next thing is, you know, we're hoping AI is a savior somehow, you know, streaming didn't help, you know.
Looking into the future, all the way ahead, what are some of the goals and projects that you aspire to achieve or work on in the next few years?
Is survival a goal? Does that count? No. We're, you know, it's an interesting time. I think that the future just means change.
(18:39):
It just does. I mean, especially every other six month period, every, you know, half year, there's major, major changes.
You have to stop relearn new software, new whatever. But I mean, you just got to change, adapt, grow and survive.
I mean, that's really what the next couple of years are going to be. I don't think anyone knows. I wish there were a crystal ball.
(19:00):
But I think, as I said, I think we all thought streaming was going to be a more successful, you know, endeavor than it's turned out to be so far. And I don't know really what it brings.
But AI is going to play a big role. And again, that can either be a great thing or a bad thing.
And really don't let it fall into the wrong hands, you know.
In your opinion, what do you believe unites designers across different cultures and disciplines in the universal quest to create something simple, functional and beautiful?
(19:31):
I think in all creatives, it's a need for self-expression. I think that you that's if you could find one thing that went across all cultures, all everything,
I think it would be that there is a need to answer that bell. I think that, you know, you want to get up and you want to take a piece of you and put it out there and let everyone judge it, entertain people with it, do whatever.
(19:55):
But I think that it's got to be a real love for what you do to stay in this because this is a hard business, you know.
It's so subjective. You could bring a hang a painting on the wall and bring three people through.
And I say this all the time, show three people, one's going to love it, one's going to hate it, one's going to be indifferent and they're all right.
You know, it's subjective. It's their thing. And I think that what we as creatives need is that outlet and need to express ourselves and need to, you know, I think if I either want to play pro football or or join the circus.
(20:32):
And I got a little bit of both by doing this because they're just it's a beat you up every day and it is a circus. And it's you know, I just think that you have to really love it in order to survive in this industry.
What role do you think design plays in shaping our everyday lives and society at large?
The world would be void of like beauty and creativity and human expression if we didn't have this, you know.
(21:01):
What is it Picasso said there could be no life without art or something. Somebody said that. I don't know if it's him, but I think that's it.
I mean, we've got from your art to your furniture, to your clothing, to, you know, everything. I mean, art drives our lives.
Everything, you know, form always follows function, I think.
Now we're looking way off into the future. How do you see the future of design evolving, especially in the context of global challenges and advancements?
(21:30):
I think that always going to Bauhaus and all that's going to be very important forever.
I think that, you know, it's we all have to learn from what came before us, you know, and everybody had something to say and it shapes where we go.
I don't really know. As I said, I hate to keep coming back to this, but I think AI is going to shape stuff so much.
(21:51):
And, you know, it really just depends on the regulations and what kind of deep fakes we can avoid. Just I don't really know how design is going to change.
But I just think the world's going to change so much that, you know, design will be a part of it.
But I think that it's, you know, it's really going to be about technology, I think, more than design, even, to be honest.
(22:15):
It's an interesting time because you're seeing that as all these groups, like when again, we talked earlier, when a group comes in and buys up another station group, they've gone in.
And when they put in a hub and stuff to handle all the groups, graphics needs, they the stations release all but one of their artists.
And so you're losing local a lot and you're getting into group packaging and things like that.
(22:42):
I think that, you know, local is getting ready to go away and they're really trying very, very hard to try to save that because it is important.
But I don't think that regular TV, you know, linear TV is just not cutting it anymore.
There's just not there's just not an audience out there.
And we can fight that and deny it. But, I mean, we're watching it and I'm seeing the budgets coming in and it's there's it's it's a tough time.
(23:06):
You're saying that CBS News, their national news, network news and all their owned stations, CBS, they share a graphics package now.
They used to the network used to be its own thing and the affiliates were their own thing.
You're even seeing they're going away with like, you know, they don't even have call letters anymore.
(23:27):
They're all CBS 11. They're all NBC 5. They're all whatever.
But I mean, you know, it's all about the networks now. It's not so much local, but they're all preaching local, but they're not really going local graphically.
They're kind of sharing packages and I think pooling resources just simply because revenues aren't where they used to be.
We've lost the human element to a lot of it. I think that it's, you know, and again, this is another AI thing.
(23:51):
You know, what's this going to do to further lose the human element?
So it's just got to continue to be communicative.
I think that we get caught up in, you know, technique.
We get caught up in, you know, when we let the medium get in the way of the message and stuff like that.
And I think as long as design is clean and simple and it does what it's supposed to do, which is, you know, evoke an emotion, communicate.
(24:16):
I think that that's the way it always evolves.
Again, you'll have different techniques. You'll have different, you know, you'll go from having the big 3D logo tumbling through the air
animation to the flat animation that comes in, you know, the very European approach to stuff with the animation.
And I think that, you know, it really comes down to does it communicate? Does it do its job?
(24:38):
The rest of it's just a technique or an approach, you know.
But I really think it comes down to does it communicate? Does it speak to people?
I think you have to look back. I don't think you have to look back as this is a blueprint.
Here's a guide. We've got to start doing this this way again.
I think you have to understand the successes and the mistakes of any past, especially design.
(25:02):
But I think that all of that's important and it's relevant.
And we see it cycle through and show its influence in architecture here and there and other stuff comes and goes.
And I think you have to understand where we've been before you know where you're going.
I know it's kind of cliche sounding, but I think that, again, so many people don't understand the process of it.
(25:24):
They don't. They're more about operating a box that runs Adobe software.
And they're not really thinkers. They're not really people that have gone out and had come up with a concept.
And then they, you know, create all the support graphics for it rather than doing something cool.
You know, this is cool. Let's do this. You know, it's got to solve something. It's got to speak to the situation.
(25:46):
It's got to, you know, it's got to mean something.
And I think that, you know, the stuff that we celebrate, even though it's in the past,
we celebrate it because it meant something, because it accomplished something.
You know, it was something that, you know, you look back and go, damn, these guys were good, you know.
And it wasn't just a lens flare added to it. You know, it's these guys, you know, so that sort of thing.
(26:07):
I think, you know, again, it gets back to actually doing it with your hands rather than just a box, I think, too.
Well, I guess we're at the end. Again, I really want to thank you a lot for taking these questions.
Your insight into the world of design has been absolutely amazing.
If you could give one piece of advice out to aspiring designers, what would it be?
First would be listen. Listen, whether it's the client, your boss, your coworkers, anyone, listen.
(26:36):
It's all about the sum of everything. And if you miss what they're saying, you're going to miss some of it.
But listen, everybody wants to jump in and start doing the listen, hear it.
And probably the most important piece of advice I could give anybody that wanted to go into any creative field at all is - be resilient.
(26:58):
Because you're going to get the snot kicked out of you. You are. And, you know, it's just count on it.
It's going to happen. And you just got to be resilient. Get up, dust yourself off and go back to work.
You're going to get no more than you're going to get yes. You just are.
And, you know, it's and if you're not, then you're probably not asking the right questions.
But I think that it's really about going in there and understanding the situation. And that means listening.
(27:25):
And I think that you may listen and you may come up with what you feel is your best approach that you've ever come up with.
And you may go in there and it gets shot down in a second. And you've got to be able to be OK with that.
It's a tough thing. You're taking a big chunk of your heart and laying it out there and letting everyone judge it.
So it's a cool thing.
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