April 10, 2025 • 20 mins
Through the conversation with Megan Kadoulis, we explore how viewing disability as a difference can enhance our understanding of identity and community. With insights into her life with Williams syndrome, Megan inspires us to appreciate diversity and fosters connections that truly care for one another.
• Rethinking disability as a divine gift
• The impact of living with Williams syndrome
• Emphasizing identity beyond medical labels
• Defining community and belonging
• Building connections through empathy and understanding
• Navigating conflicts and tensions gracefully
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Disabling the Church is a production of the Center
for Disability and Ministry atWestern Theological Seminary.
This series amplifies thevoices, giftedness and
perspectives of disabled peopleto enrich the ministry and
witness of the church.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
and perspectives of disabled people to enrich the
ministry and witness of thechurch.
Hello, welcome to Disabling theChurch.
I'm your host, Dr LS CarlosThompson.
In today's episode you'll get achance to meet my friend, Megan
Kadoulis, who's a fourth-yearFriendship House Fellow in the
Friendship House.
Over the course of the episode,we're being invited to rethink
things like disability asdeficit.
(00:46):
We begin to be invited by Meginto reframing disability as
difference, which is a part ofdiversity, which is a gift from
God that connects us to what itmeans to divinely bear the image
of Christ as a part of the bodyof Christ.
Divinely bear the image ofChrist as a part of the body of
(01:07):
Christ.
Listen closely as Megintroduces herself and we get a
chance to introduce some largertheological categories in a
conversation between myself andmy good friend, Meg Kadoulis.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
All right, my name is Megan Kadoulis.
I live on Meg, I am a fourthyear Friendship House resident
at the Friendship House and I amalmost 29.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Almost 29.
When do you turn 29?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
In two weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
For me, when birthdays roll around, I get a
little bit reflective, somewhatpensive.
As your birthday approaches, doyou get nervous, do you get sad
?
Are you excited about thefuture?
Invite us into that a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think that I am mostly excited to turn 29.
I want to, in my almost 30years of life, be more involved
with creation, care, communitypastoral care and being more
involved in different thingsthat happen around here.
(02:10):
I think that the four yearsI've been in school, plus the
year or so I've been in thehouse the friendship house I've
learned through that, likecommunity is very important, but
the Bible also says that theworld is important, like animals
(02:31):
and creation is important, andso I want to be more involved
with that and, like maybe divein deeper into those categories.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So I wonder creation care?
You mentioned animals andcreatures, and obviously human
beings are co-creatures.
We're created by God, createdin the image of God.
Maybe we can lean in a bit here.
You also live with a disability, and so you come in with a
whole set of life experiencesthat make it difficult to engage
(03:10):
in theological dialogue becauseof the way that people approach
you.
Can you explain a little bit ofwhat it's like to live with
your medical diagnosis?
And then I want to ask somequestions around how that might
shape how you understandinterdependence or human need.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So I was born with a disability.
It's called Williams syndrome,and it happens when you have
genes off of your seventhchromosome that are missing, and
so I'm missing about like like30-plus of them.
And so people who are born withLeukemia usually have genetic
(03:51):
heart defects, different othermedical conditions, but I'm
considered pretty healthy, thankyou Jesus.
And so having that disabilitythat also affects my brain and
(04:29):
how like I live my life, I havehuge empathy for other people
with disabilities and humans ingeneral, the same empathy to
like caring about the rainforestor like creatures in different
countries, you know, because ifwe don't care about them,
everyone's just gonna be gone.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So, living with a medical diagnosis and you hear
from doctors a particular way ofexplaining how you inhabit the
world and some information aboutyour DNA structure, right.
But with that comes a certainamount of personality trait as
well, this idea that you arenaturally a very empathetic
(05:03):
person.
You are wired for relationalconnection, and in some ways all
human beings are, but that doesfluctuate in its particulars,
right.
So there's a part of you thathas been told medically this is
who you are, this is your limitsand this is what your life will
(05:25):
be.
And yet you exist as a seminarystudent in a postgraduate
institution, embedded in acommunity that challenges and
stretches your theologicalframeworks.
And, as a result, now you'resaying things like it's my
responsibility to care forcreation and others, not just
receive care.
So I'm wondering how do youdefine yourself and your
(05:51):
identity beyond just simplemedicalized language attached to
a diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, I grew up where people said like, oh,
people with disabilities areacts of the devil, like they're
not fully human.
You know, like, oh, satan musthave done something, or oh, your
mom and dad must have sinned orwhatever.
But when I came to Michigan andwent to Hope, their Ready for
(06:23):
Life program, which is a wholeother subject I met someone who
introduced me to Jesus andintroduced me to faith.
Then, and like I have grown somuch ever since, like eight
years ago basically.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Wow, so you're in a place now where you can attach
certain things like because Ilive with Williams syndrome, I
have a well-developed empathicside to my way of being.
I've read other things becauseof you inviting me in and
teaching me things like peoplewho live with Williams syndrome
(07:02):
are often very quick to trustand form relationships, attach
to music easily, those kinds ofthings right, and I find it, if
I can just be blunt, I find itodd that things like hardwired
for relationships, empathetic,quick to trust, those kinds of
things are listed as somehowdeficient medical traits.
(07:25):
That seems kind of odd, butthat maybe is a separate
conversation.
What I hear now is you, becauseof who you are, have entered a
space where you're attachingcertain elements of how you're
wired to a vocational call and acertain communal theological
(07:46):
expectation.
Right, Because I am wired acertain way.
What am I created for?
Who am I created?
To be in Christ.
And then you reference thingslike creation, care, communal
involvement, and so I'd like tojust maybe develop that a little
bit more.
It seems like your vocation iscoming out of the needs that you
(08:10):
have as a person a need forconnection, a need for others, a
need to be connected tocreation, a need to have a role
to play in a community.
It doesn't seem like yourvocation is rooted in trying to
structure your life in a way sothat you don't need people.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So how would you lean into explaining to those who
are listening the connectionbetween what God has created you
to do, who God's created you tobe, and the needs that you have
?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, god's created you to be and the needs that you
have, yeah, community and makesure everyone feels like they're
a part of community.
It's a big part of my life andthat might be like the pastoral
care person coming out of me,and I think that everybody
(09:02):
deserves to be seen, loved andheard, no matter who they are.
They should have a community,and here at the Friendship House
we have a very large community.
Sometimes it's strong,sometimes it's not.
I mean, we're only human, webicker, we fight, but we also
(09:23):
get along, which is great.
And so, like I see myself beinga person that fosters the care
circles to like fix that hole,patch it up, take care of other
people.
I think that being a communitylike like we can all help each
(09:45):
other heal, so like going from aplace where, oh you know, like
your mom and dad must have donesomething, you're an act of the
devil, like you're not fullyhuman to I am seen, I'm loved,
I'm heard is community and goingto church and just like
(10:09):
different categories all whippedinto one cake per se.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So you use the word community as sort of a space
where someone goes from aparticular nefarious way or
negative way of definingidentity to being seen, known
and heard.
Can you walk me through howwould you define a community,
and then maybe we can lean intoa little bit of how that plays
out in the Friendship House?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, the community to me, in my opinion, is defined
as people who are together.
They don't just live together,but they do a lot of things
together and if someone'smissing, it's like, oh, where's
that person?
(10:56):
Like is she or he?
Okay, you know, like do theyneed me for some reason or
whatever?
And so if you're not there,you're missed and like it's way
different from oh, I'm justgoing to this group to do this
thing and I'll go home and I'llbe forgotten afterwards right.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So what I hear there um is help me remember this
rightly but um reverend dr johnswinton out of the university of
aberdeen in hisen.
In a number of his writings, andsome of which we read in class,
he says belonging versusinclusion is sort of
differentiated this wayInclusion says you're kind of
(11:41):
welcomed into the room somehow,whether it's a ramp to get you
in the building, or you'relistened to in a conversation or
maybe you're heard in aconversation.
But belonging says that if youare absent from that space, you
are so well known that you'remissed, right.
And then we sort of lean intothat and press it a little bit
(12:03):
further and say maybe belongingisn't so much that you're missed
when you're absent, but it'sthat you're so well known that
the good and the fruit of whathappens in that space can't
occur without you present,because the fullness of who you
are actually changes a space.
What does that mean then interms of how life functions in
(12:26):
the friendship house, if we seekto be a community and we seek
to belong to one another?
Let me phrase it this way howmight you say or explain that
the friendship house is acommunity versus a social group?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So each and every week we do dinners every
Thursday night usually.
We do dinners every Thursdaynight usually and like if
someone isn't going to comethey'll let us know.
On our text thread we have acommunal thread that we text
each other a lot and askquestions about.
Like you don't just do thatwith everyday people.
(13:05):
These people, you have to trustthem, they have to trust you.
Like there has to be more than,oh, this person is my friend,
I'll ask him a random questionand then, like it won't matter,
but community is like a super,super strong spider web or a net
(13:27):
strong spider web or a net ifone part is not there, or if one
part, one person, not part.
But I'm saying part becausethat's how I feel like the
thread is missing and so it'snot fully uh strong as it should
be.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So community, to use the analogy, oh man, I can't
believe you use the analogy of aspider web.
That's icky and you don't likespiders, meg.
So we can talk about that later.
But, um, let's use the analogy,right?
So a spider web or a net?
Um, it's almost like communityis the the place that holds you
or catches you when you feellike you're in a bit of a free
(14:12):
fall.
It's not necessarily aboutachieving a task, so much as it
is about being a particular kindof person in a particular kind
of space.
And so this idea of this is aplace where we are regularly
connected.
You know a text thread dinners,doing life together, that kind
of thing.
(14:32):
But also this is a place wherewe're regularly connected and
leaning on one another in andthrough our needs and our
humanity, right.
So let me just ask you this youdo, as a person who identifies
(14:54):
as a Christian, to welcomepeople into existing in the body
of Christ, and vulnerably inthe body of Christ.
How do you exist as a person tomake sure that you're inviting
people into the kind ofvulnerability that fosters
community?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I know everyone has opinions and I have opinions too
and they're very strong at somepoints.
But, like I try to be kind andto like just forget about my
opinions at first, just like letthem know, like hey, I'm Megan.
Like let's get to know eachother and we'll talk about our
(15:27):
theological opinions later, aswe get to know each other, and
we'll talk about our theologicalopinions later, as we get to
know each other.
But like I want them to knowthat I see them, that I care
about them, and I want to get toknow, like maybe they had a
struggle and I had that struggletoo, so I can you know, like
confirm with them and be on thesame page, like identify the
(15:50):
same role as them at some points.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
So what I think I hear yousaying is maybe a step, maybe
even step one, is recognizingthat we should listen to one
another in order to understandone another, not necessarily in
order to respond right away.
So here's a question and maybewe can close here how do you
(16:21):
enter a space where you'retrying to listen in order to
invite someone into closer,deeper, richer relationship and
you come across a very realdifference in your way of being
maybe a source of conflict or asource of tension, right as a
Christian who's committed toliving in community with other
(16:42):
Christians?
How do you navigate thatconflict or difference or
tension without letting itdevelop into a place of
dissension?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, perhaps let's just say that this person is not
a Christian, this persondoesn't know Jesus or whatever
the Bible says to be the way ofthe light, like be more like
Jesus.
Bible says to be the way of thelight, like be more like Jesus,
(17:16):
and so I think that I wouldwant to show them light.
And if there is tension, then Ijust pray about it and see what
the Bible says about it andthen, like, defer from there
because you don't want to leavesomeone like, oh, that person is
a Christian and they're usingthe Bible against me because I'm
(17:37):
different than them, or like Isin.
People can say like, oh, you'rea sinner, but wait, you're not
a sinner too, you know.
Like.
That kind of stuff is alsoimportant to understand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, meg, I hear you saying that Scripture and the
Word is sort of a common anchorpoint.
And we go back to and we say,as a Christian, I allow the Word
to govern the choices I make,the conversations I have and the
way that I act.
But what about when I'minteracting with someone who
doesn't have that same anchorpoint?
(18:13):
Then we say, well, humility andgentleness is sort of how I
enter this.
For those of us who areentering these kinds of
conversations for the first time, what's one piece of advice
that you would leave ourlisteners with around how to
(18:33):
engage in these kinds ofconversations with people like
you and me that havedisabilities and maybe it's all
new to them?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think that people with disabilities are very much
alike everyone else, liketypical people, and therefore
like don't be afraid of thatperson because they're disabled
and just act like you normally,act like you don't have to treat
(19:01):
them special because you knowthere's the it can be a little
bit mistreated and maybe thatperson doesn't want to be
treated special, and so you haveto understand we are people of
God who God greatly loves andwho Jesus is always by just as
(19:23):
much as the person lives downthe road.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Thank you, Meg, and thank you so much for agreeing
to share some time with me andall of us.
Thank you for the way that youinvite us into the life that God
has given you.
Thank you for being a member ofthe Friendship House community
and such a beautiful friend tome and so many others.
Please remember that this isDisabling the Church and we look
(19:52):
forward to being with you insubsequent weeks.
Thank you all for being willingto share some time with Meg and
I.
I look forward to inviting withyou in subsequent weeks.
Thank you all for being willingto share some time with Meg and
I.
I look forward to inviting youback in the next episode and
also inviting Meg back insubsequent episodes as we
continue our conversation.
May God bless and keep you.
May God's face shine upon youand give you peace.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
This has been a Center for Disability and
Ministry production.
Join us next time for anotherinsightful episode.
Disabling the Church is a production of the Center
for Disability and Ministry atWestern Theological Seminary.
This series amplifies thevoices, giftedness and
perspectives of disabled peopleto enrich the ministry and
witness of the church.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
and perspectives of disabled people to enrich the
ministry and witness of thechurch.
Hello, welcome to Disabling theChurch.
I'm your host, Dr LS CarlosThompson.
In today's episode you'll get achance to meet my friend, Megan
Kadoulis, who's a fourth-yearFriendship House Fellow in the
Friendship House.
Over the course of the episode,we're being invited to rethink
things like disability asdeficit.
(00:46):
We begin to be invited by Meginto reframing disability as
difference, which is a part ofdiversity, which is a gift from
God that connects us to what itmeans to divinely bear the image
of Christ as a part of the bodyof Christ.
Divinely bear the image ofChrist as a part of the body of
(01:07):
Christ.
Listen closely as Megintroduces herself and we get a
chance to introduce some largertheological categories in a
conversation between myself andmy good friend, Meg Kadoulis.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
All right, my name is Megan Kadoulis.
I live on Meg, I am a fourthyear Friendship House resident
at the Friendship House and I amalmost 29.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Almost 29.
When do you turn 29?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
In two weeks.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
For me, when birthdays roll around, I get a
little bit reflective, somewhatpensive.
As your birthday approaches, doyou get nervous, do you get sad
?
Are you excited about thefuture?
Invite us into that a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I think that I am mostly excited to turn 29.
I want to, in my almost 30years of life, be more involved
with creation, care, communitypastoral care and being more
involved in different thingsthat happen around here.
(02:10):
I think that the four yearsI've been in school, plus the
year or so I've been in thehouse the friendship house I've
learned through that, likecommunity is very important, but
the Bible also says that theworld is important, like animals
(02:31):
and creation is important, andso I want to be more involved
with that and, like maybe divein deeper into those categories.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So I wonder creation care?
You mentioned animals andcreatures, and obviously human
beings are co-creatures.
We're created by God, createdin the image of God.
Maybe we can lean in a bit here.
You also live with a disability, and so you come in with a
whole set of life experiencesthat make it difficult to engage
(03:10):
in theological dialogue becauseof the way that people approach
you.
Can you explain a little bit ofwhat it's like to live with
your medical diagnosis?
And then I want to ask somequestions around how that might
shape how you understandinterdependence or human need.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So I was born with a disability.
It's called Williams syndrome,and it happens when you have
genes off of your seventhchromosome that are missing, and
so I'm missing about like like30-plus of them.
And so people who are born withLeukemia usually have genetic
(03:51):
heart defects, different othermedical conditions, but I'm
considered pretty healthy, thankyou Jesus.
And so having that disabilitythat also affects my brain and
(04:29):
how like I live my life, I havehuge empathy for other people
with disabilities and humans ingeneral, the same empathy to
like caring about the rainforestor like creatures in different
countries, you know, because ifwe don't care about them,
everyone's just gonna be gone.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So, living with a medical diagnosis and you hear
from doctors a particular way ofexplaining how you inhabit the
world and some information aboutyour DNA structure, right.
But with that comes a certainamount of personality trait as
well, this idea that you arenaturally a very empathetic
(05:03):
person.
You are wired for relationalconnection, and in some ways all
human beings are, but that doesfluctuate in its particulars,
right.
So there's a part of you thathas been told medically this is
who you are, this is your limitsand this is what your life will
(05:25):
be.
And yet you exist as a seminarystudent in a postgraduate
institution, embedded in acommunity that challenges and
stretches your theologicalframeworks.
And, as a result, now you'resaying things like it's my
responsibility to care forcreation and others, not just
receive care.
So I'm wondering how do youdefine yourself and your
(05:51):
identity beyond just simplemedicalized language attached to
a diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, I grew up where people said like, oh,
people with disabilities areacts of the devil, like they're
not fully human.
You know, like, oh, satan musthave done something, or oh, your
mom and dad must have sinned orwhatever.
But when I came to Michigan andwent to Hope, their Ready for
(06:23):
Life program, which is a wholeother subject I met someone who
introduced me to Jesus andintroduced me to faith.
Then, and like I have grown somuch ever since, like eight
years ago basically.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Wow, so you're in a place now where you can attach
certain things like because Ilive with Williams syndrome, I
have a well-developed empathicside to my way of being.
I've read other things becauseof you inviting me in and
teaching me things like peoplewho live with Williams syndrome
(07:02):
are often very quick to trustand form relationships, attach
to music easily, those kinds ofthings right, and I find it, if
I can just be blunt, I find itodd that things like hardwired
for relationships, empathetic,quick to trust, those kinds of
things are listed as somehowdeficient medical traits.
(07:25):
That seems kind of odd, butthat maybe is a separate
conversation.
What I hear now is you, becauseof who you are, have entered a
space where you're attachingcertain elements of how you're
wired to a vocational call and acertain communal theological
(07:46):
expectation.
Right, Because I am wired acertain way.
What am I created for?
Who am I created?
To be in Christ.
And then you reference thingslike creation, care, communal
involvement, and so I'd like tojust maybe develop that a little
bit more.
It seems like your vocation iscoming out of the needs that you
(08:10):
have as a person a need forconnection, a need for others, a
need to be connected tocreation, a need to have a role
to play in a community.
It doesn't seem like yourvocation is rooted in trying to
structure your life in a way sothat you don't need people.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So how would you lean into explaining to those who
are listening the connectionbetween what God has created you
to do, who God's created you tobe, and the needs that you have
?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, god's created you to be and the needs that you
have, yeah, community and makesure everyone feels like they're
a part of community.
It's a big part of my life andthat might be like the pastoral
care person coming out of me,and I think that everybody
(09:02):
deserves to be seen, loved andheard, no matter who they are.
They should have a community,and here at the Friendship House
we have a very large community.
Sometimes it's strong,sometimes it's not.
I mean, we're only human, webicker, we fight, but we also
(09:23):
get along, which is great.
And so, like I see myself beinga person that fosters the care
circles to like fix that hole,patch it up, take care of other
people.
I think that being a communitylike like we can all help each
(09:45):
other heal, so like going from aplace where, oh you know, like
your mom and dad must have donesomething, you're an act of the
devil, like you're not fullyhuman to I am seen, I'm loved,
I'm heard is community and goingto church and just like
(10:09):
different categories all whippedinto one cake per se.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
So you use the word community as sort of a space
where someone goes from aparticular nefarious way or
negative way of definingidentity to being seen, known
and heard.
Can you walk me through howwould you define a community,
and then maybe we can lean intoa little bit of how that plays
out in the Friendship House?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Okay, the community to me, in my opinion, is defined
as people who are together.
They don't just live together,but they do a lot of things
together and if someone'smissing, it's like, oh, where's
that person?
(10:56):
Like is she or he?
Okay, you know, like do theyneed me for some reason or
whatever?
And so if you're not there,you're missed and like it's way
different from oh, I'm justgoing to this group to do this
thing and I'll go home and I'llbe forgotten afterwards right.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So what I hear there um is help me remember this
rightly but um reverend dr johnswinton out of the university of
aberdeen in hisen.
In a number of his writings, andsome of which we read in class,
he says belonging versusinclusion is sort of
differentiated this wayInclusion says you're kind of
(11:41):
welcomed into the room somehow,whether it's a ramp to get you
in the building, or you'relistened to in a conversation or
maybe you're heard in aconversation.
But belonging says that if youare absent from that space, you
are so well known that you'remissed, right.
And then we sort of lean intothat and press it a little bit
(12:03):
further and say maybe belongingisn't so much that you're missed
when you're absent, but it'sthat you're so well known that
the good and the fruit of whathappens in that space can't
occur without you present,because the fullness of who you
are actually changes a space.
What does that mean then interms of how life functions in
(12:26):
the friendship house, if we seekto be a community and we seek
to belong to one another?
Let me phrase it this way howmight you say or explain that
the friendship house is acommunity versus a social group?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So each and every week we do dinners every
Thursday night usually.
We do dinners every Thursdaynight usually and like if
someone isn't going to comethey'll let us know.
On our text thread we have acommunal thread that we text
each other a lot and askquestions about.
Like you don't just do thatwith everyday people.
(13:05):
These people, you have to trustthem, they have to trust you.
Like there has to be more than,oh, this person is my friend,
I'll ask him a random questionand then, like it won't matter,
but community is like a super,super strong spider web or a net
(13:27):
strong spider web or a net ifone part is not there, or if one
part, one person, not part.
But I'm saying part becausethat's how I feel like the
thread is missing and so it'snot fully uh strong as it should
be.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So community, to use the analogy, oh man, I can't
believe you use the analogy of aspider web.
That's icky and you don't likespiders, meg.
So we can talk about that later.
But, um, let's use the analogy,right?
So a spider web or a net?
Um, it's almost like communityis the the place that holds you
or catches you when you feellike you're in a bit of a free
(14:12):
fall.
It's not necessarily aboutachieving a task, so much as it
is about being a particular kindof person in a particular kind
of space.
And so this idea of this is aplace where we are regularly
connected.
You know a text thread dinners,doing life together, that kind
of thing.
(14:32):
But also this is a place wherewe're regularly connected and
leaning on one another in andthrough our needs and our
humanity, right.
So let me just ask you this youdo, as a person who identifies
(14:54):
as a Christian, to welcomepeople into existing in the body
of Christ, and vulnerably inthe body of Christ.
How do you exist as a person tomake sure that you're inviting
people into the kind ofvulnerability that fosters
community?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I know everyone has opinions and I have opinions too
and they're very strong at somepoints.
But, like I try to be kind andto like just forget about my
opinions at first, just like letthem know, like hey, I'm Megan.
Like let's get to know eachother and we'll talk about our
(15:27):
theological opinions later, aswe get to know each other, and
we'll talk about our theologicalopinions later, as we get to
know each other.
But like I want them to knowthat I see them, that I care
about them, and I want to get toknow, like maybe they had a
struggle and I had that struggletoo, so I can you know, like
confirm with them and be on thesame page, like identify the
(15:50):
same role as them at some points.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
So what I think I hear yousaying is maybe a step, maybe
even step one, is recognizingthat we should listen to one
another in order to understandone another, not necessarily in
order to respond right away.
So here's a question and maybewe can close here how do you
(16:21):
enter a space where you'retrying to listen in order to
invite someone into closer,deeper, richer relationship and
you come across a very realdifference in your way of being
maybe a source of conflict or asource of tension, right as a
Christian who's committed toliving in community with other
(16:42):
Christians?
How do you navigate thatconflict or difference or
tension without letting itdevelop into a place of
dissension?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, perhaps let's just say that this person is not
a Christian, this persondoesn't know Jesus or whatever
the Bible says to be the way ofthe light, like be more like
Jesus.
Bible says to be the way of thelight, like be more like Jesus,
(17:16):
and so I think that I wouldwant to show them light.
And if there is tension, then Ijust pray about it and see what
the Bible says about it andthen, like, defer from there
because you don't want to leavesomeone like, oh, that person is
a Christian and they're usingthe Bible against me because I'm
(17:37):
different than them, or like Isin.
People can say like, oh, you'rea sinner, but wait, you're not
a sinner too, you know.
Like.
That kind of stuff is alsoimportant to understand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, meg, I hear you saying that Scripture and the
Word is sort of a common anchorpoint.
And we go back to and we say,as a Christian, I allow the Word
to govern the choices I make,the conversations I have and the
way that I act.
But what about when I'minteracting with someone who
doesn't have that same anchorpoint?
(18:13):
Then we say, well, humility andgentleness is sort of how I
enter this.
For those of us who areentering these kinds of
conversations for the first time, what's one piece of advice
that you would leave ourlisteners with around how to
(18:33):
engage in these kinds ofconversations with people like
you and me that havedisabilities and maybe it's all
new to them?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think that people with disabilities are very much
alike everyone else, liketypical people, and therefore
like don't be afraid of thatperson because they're disabled
and just act like you normally,act like you don't have to treat
(19:01):
them special because you knowthere's the it can be a little
bit mistreated and maybe thatperson doesn't want to be
treated special, and so you haveto understand we are people of
God who God greatly loves andwho Jesus is always by just as
(19:23):
much as the person lives downthe road.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Thank you, Meg, and thank you so much for agreeing
to share some time with me andall of us.
Thank you for the way that youinvite us into the life that God
has given you.
Thank you for being a member ofthe Friendship House community
and such a beautiful friend tome and so many others.
Please remember that this isDisabling the Church and we look
(19:52):
forward to being with you insubsequent weeks.
Thank you all for being willingto share some time with Meg and
I.
I look forward to inviting withyou in subsequent weeks.
Thank you all for being willingto share some time with Meg and
I.
I look forward to inviting youback in the next episode and
also inviting Meg back insubsequent episodes as we
continue our conversation.
May God bless and keep you.
May God's face shine upon youand give you peace.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
This has been a Center for Disability and
Ministry production.
Join us next time for anotherinsightful episode.
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