July 31, 2025 • 20 mins
The essence of this podcast episode revolves around the exploration of the multifaceted artist, Sarah Kinsley, who remarkably ascended to prominence while navigating the rigors of her collegiate studies. We delve into her compelling journey, which encompasses her classical roots in music, her viral success on platforms such as TikTok, and the profound themes of grief and escapism that pervade her work. As we unpack her creative process, we aim to illuminate the intricate blend of classical discipline and modern pop innovation that characterizes her sound. Additionally, we scrutinize the ethical considerations surrounding the commodification of grief in art, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in her music. Ultimately, we invite our listeners to engage deeply with Kinsley’s artistry, reflecting on how personal experiences can be transformed into resonant art that fosters connection and understanding.
Who is
“From her dorm room at Columbia University to stages across the U.S., Sarah Kinsley is reshaping what it means to be a modern pop artist. A classically trained pianist turned self-produced alt-pop innovator, Sarah isn’t just writing songs—she’s crafting sonic worlds entirely on her own.
In this episode, we dive deep into her musical universe: how TikTok turned her track ‘The King’ into a viral anthem, why she chooses to produce every instrument herself, and how solitude became her creative superpower.
Join us as we explore the story of a young woman who proves that you don’t need a big studio to sound like royalty—you just need a vision, a laptop, and the courage to stay true to your voice.”*
An exploration of the artist Sarah Kinsley reveals a compelling narrative of a young musician who has seamlessly navigated the confluence of rigorous classical training and the dynamic realm of contemporary pop. Kinsley, whose journey commenced in Mountain View, California, and later transitioned to Connecticut and Singapore, has experienced profound cultural exposure that has significantly shaped her artistic voice. This podcast delves into the intricate layers of her music, which, while firmly rooted in alt-pop, engages with deep themes such as grief and escapism, presented through a unique artistic lens. Kinsley's distinctive sound is not merely a product of clever production; rather, it embodies a rich tapestry of emotional depth, a testament to her classical background and her innovative approach to music-making. The discussion invites listeners to uncover how her personal experiences and her artistic evolution intertwine, challenging conventional notions of identity and creativity in the music industry.
Takeaways:
- The podcast delves into the intricate journey of Sarah Kinsley, an artist who achieved viral fame while balancing her college education, highlighting the challenges and triumphs faced along the way.
- We explore the profound themes of grief and escapism prevalent in Kinsley's music, which is presented through a unique alt-pop lens that captivates listeners with its emotional depth.
- The discussion emphasizes Kinsley's classical roots and how her rigorous training informs her contemporary pop sound, allowing for a blend of sophistication and raw emotional expression.
- The episode highlights Kinsley's determination to take control of her artistic identity, particularly in an industry where female producers are often underrepresented, demonstrating her commitment to challenging the status quo.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Who is Sarah Kinsley?
That's the question we'rereally getting into today.
Yeah.
And it's a fascinating one.
It really is.
We're looking at this.
Well, this journey of anartist who kind of blew up, went
viral while she was still, youknow, in college.
Right.
Juggling classes and thisexploding music career.
Exactly.
But then you look closer, andher music tackles some.
(00:22):
Some really deep themes.
Grief, escapism, heavy stuff,but presented in this incredibly
unique alt pop way.
It's captivating.
Totally.
So our mission today basicallyis to unpack all that.
Her background, which ispretty unique.
Classical roots meeting pop innovation.
Yeah.
We want to dig into how sheactually makes her music, her process,
(00:43):
and really understand what'sgoing on with her latest work.
What makes that voice so, Iguess, resonant.
Why does it connect?
Exactly.
Expect some surprises, maybesome aha moments, you know, trying
to see how an artist like herfinds her footing today.
Yeah.
It's more than just a bio,isn't it?
It's about how that distinctvoice, that uniqueness emerges now,
especially that blend, the.
(01:03):
Classical discipline mixedwith, like, raw feeling and being
smart about the digital world.
Okay, so let's start at thebeginning, her early years.
Yeah.
How did music become, as sheputs it, everything?
Well, she was born back in2000 in Mountain View, California.
Silaton Valley, actually.
Oh, interesting.
But she didn't say long.
Nope, just the first fivemonths or so.
(01:25):
She mostly grew up in a smalltown in Connecticut, so very east
coast upbringing, largely.
And she's of Chinese Americandescent, too.
Right.
Adds another layer.
It does.
And music, from what she says,wasn't just, like, a hobby.
It was everywhere, alwaysthere, she said.
Yeah.
And eventually inseparablefrom life.
That's pretty intense.
It sounds less like she pickedmusic and more like music picked
(01:47):
her.
Yeah, totally.
Like it was just part of her makeup.
And that connection showed upearly in, well, pretty ser.
Classical training.
Right.
The piano and violin.
Lots of practice.
Youth orchestras.
And apparently even back then,people noticed her performances were
really emotional.
So it wasn't just about technique.
Even as a kid, she was alreadychanneling feeling.
(02:07):
Seems like it.
Which, you know, definitelyforeshadows her songwriting later
on.
It's not just about clever production.
There's real heart there, afoundation built on discipline and
emotion.
Okay.
But then her world shiftsquite dramatically.
Yeah.
Big time.
Middle school.
The whole family moves.
Where to?
Singapore.
She went to an internationalschool there.
(02:28):
Wow.
Okay.
Connecticut to Singapore.
That's a huge change,especially at that age.
Absolutely.
Imagine the cultural exposure,the different perspectives it must
have broadened her horizons massively.
And she actually connects thatperiod in her classical training,
during that period to how shemakes music now.
She does.
She said it was important forher later production process.
(02:49):
It's like laying down thisdeep, complex wiring, you know, ready
for the pop sensibility toplug into later.
So it's not like you hear, Idon't know, a string quartet in her
songs necessarily.
Not literally, no.
It's more subtle.
It's maybe in the structure,the way she layers sounds, the harmonic
choices that are maybe a bitunexpected for pop.
Like an over plus under or Starling.
(03:11):
You can kind of hear that complexity.
Exactly.
It's like having this deeperarchitectural understanding even
when you're building somethingvery modern and fresh.
The classical training givesher that framework that makes sense.
It's a foundation, not a blueprint.
She has to follow rigidly, precisely.
So after Singapore, sheeventually lands in New York City,
and that's when she startsexploring pop more directly.
(03:34):
And how did that start?
Was she writing her own stuffright away?
Not quite for publicconsumption at first.
She started, like a lot ofyoung artists do, by posting covers
online on Instagram.
Like Justin Bieber, Julia Michaels.
Yep.
Those kinds of artists.
Putting her voice out there.
But she was shy about itinitially, apparently.
Yeah.
Which is relatable.
(03:54):
Right.
Putting your voice, your artout there is vulnerable.
Totally.
But the reaction was positive.
People liked the covers.
And that positive feedback,that validation was really crucial
for her.
That gave her the confidenceto keep going.
It seems like it.
It encouraged her to exploremore, maybe trust her instincts a
bit.
It was an important step.
Yeah.
You need that little push sometimes.
(04:15):
Okay.
So this leads us towards areally key moment.
Getting into production herself.
She's in New York.
Right.
And years after her time inSingapore, she reconnects with someone
from her past.
A former classmate, Luke Bradford.
He'd become a producer workingunder the name Ford.
Okay.
And he reached out.
Yeah.
Seems he saw her covers orknew she was musical.
(04:35):
They ended up collaborating ona track called Craving.
How did that work?
She wrote lyrics.
She wrote the lyrics?
Yeah.
And Ford handled all the production.
On the surface, it looks likea great opportunity for her.
But.
There's always a but.
While the reaction to the songbecame this major catalyst for her,
she got compliments, but shecalled them twisted.
(04:56):
Compliments.
Twisted.
What does she mean by that?
Because all the praise was forthe production, for Ford's work.
Nobody seemed to notice orcredit her input beyond just singing
the lyrics.
Ah.
So she felt like just afeature vocalist, not a Collaborator
in the sound.
Exactly.
She had zero input into howthe track actually sounded, the arrangement,
the instruments.
(05:16):
And that lack of recognition,that oversight really, really bothered
her.
I could see why.
It made her realize she didn'tjust want to write and sing.
She wanted to build the wholesonic world herself.
She wanted to be the architect.
That's a powerful realization.
Not just wanting creativecontrol, but wanting the credit and
recognition for the full, full artistry.
(05:36):
Absolutely.
And it wasn't just a personal thing.
It got amplified by somethingelse she learned around that time.
What was that?
A statistic from a USCAnnenberg report in 2018.
It found that only like 2% ofmusic producers identified as female.
Wow, 2%.
That's stark.
Incredibly stark.
And knowing that seeing thatnumber fueled her drive even more.
(05:58):
It wasn't just I want toproduce, it became I need to produce.
So it became a mission almostto challenge that imbalance.
Pretty much.
She explicitly decided shewanted to produce every single part
of her music herself.
It was a statement, a way topush back against that underrepresentation
and show it could be done.
That takes serious determination.
Yeah.
And it connects directly toher experiences later.
(06:19):
Right.
Even in academic settings.
Yeah, absolutely.
Which brings us neatly intoher college years.
That whole period ofbreakthrough and viral success.
Okay, part two.
She's at Columbia Universitystudying music theory.
Right.
Deep in the academic world.
But her music career isstarting to bubble up fast.
Real balancing act.
And she found this brilliantway to merge the two worlds, didn't
(06:41):
she?
She really did.
Some of her assignmentsactually required her to produce
and record songs.
So she just released them, basically.
Yeah.
She used these assignments as opportunities.
Her single over plus underfrom 2021, that actually got her
a good grade in a class.
That's genius.
Academic credit.
And a hit single.
Well, a buzzy single anyway.
Talk about practical application.
(07:01):
Right?
Yeah.
And she was also involved inother musical things at Columbia,
like the capella group NonSequitur, a cappella, which is, you
know, intense vocal arranging,harmonies, rhythm, all with just
voices.
You can definitely see howthat would sharpen her skills for
layering vocals and creatingcomplex textures in her own productions.
(07:22):
Totally.
It's all about how differentparts fit together to make a whole
sound.
But her time at Columbiawasn't all smooth sailing, especially
regarding production.
Right.
She mentioned encountering asort of male geared environment.
Yeah.
Feeling like male classmatesmight speak over her or their ideas
were given more weight inproduction discussions.
So the very issue she wasreacting to with that 2% statistic,
(07:45):
she was seeing glimpses of itin her Own university classes.
Seems that way.
It just solidified herconviction that female producers
needed more recognition, morespace, more amplification.
It wasn't abstract.
It was her reality.
Man, that must have been frustrating.
But also validating in a weird way.
Like, okay, this is real and Iam gonna push against it.
Exactly.
(08:06):
And the tension between herstudies and her music career was
intense.
There's that story.
The final exam in the MercuryLounge show.
Yeah.
On the same day she had thisgig at a really cool New York venue.
A big step, but also a finalexam looming.
What did she do?
Had to plead with herprofessor to let her take the exam
early, like in the morning, soshe could literally race downtown
(08:27):
for soundcheck.
I just picture her runningnotes, flying, guitar case banging.
Yeah, it's almost like a movie scene.
It really captures thatpressure cooker moment.
Music, which had been thisescape, this.
Intense pipe dream, suddenlybecame very, very real and demanding.
Yeah, she hadn't evennecessarily seen herself being the
artist.
She thought maybe she'd workat a label, you know, behind the
(08:49):
scenes.
But the universe had other plans.
Or maybe TikTok did, becausethat's what happened next, right?
June 4, 2021, she drops the EP.
The Kung, and the title track just.
Explodes on TikTok overnight, practically.
Suddenly, she's not just atalented student, she's a name people
are hearing everywhere.
It shows the sheer power ofthat platform.
Unpredictable but massivepotential reach.
(09:11):
Undeniable.
It launched her into a muchwider consciousness.
And the EP itself got greatreviews too.
Right.
It wasn't just the viral moment.
No, critics really dug it.
Praised her vocals, thesongwriting, the whole package.
They noted how meticulouslycrafted it was.
Even though it's short.
That production work paid off.
So the substance was there toback up the hype.
(09:32):
Definitely.
And the industry noticed.
It got on a big top debutprojects of 2021 list.
She was named one of the topemerging artists for the next year.
That kind of recognition musthave opened doors for sure.
It signals real potential, notjust a fleeting trend.
And she kept the momentumgoing with.
The Cypress EP in 2022.
Right.
June 10, 2022.
(09:53):
And the lead single for thatone, hills of Fire, has an interesting
origin.
Where did that come from?
It came from a time when sheactually needed to step back.
After the King blew up, therewas all this press interviews, noise.
Understandable.
That must have been overwhelming.
So she went back toCalifornia, where she was born, just
to get away from it all, findsome quiet.
And that's where Cyprusstarted taking shape.
(10:14):
Yeah, she said the EP's themebecame about unraveling the growth
of uncertainty, the unknowing.
And Hills of Fire capturesthat feeling.
Kind of finding your waythrough the fog.
Exactly.
And the title Cypress camefrom seeing all the cypress trees
out there in California.
Became a symbol for her duringthat time.
Resilience, maybe.
Standing tall through change.
(10:35):
Could be.
And then she toured for thatep often with Jane Pocnia, another
musician she knew from Colombia.
Nice to see those connectionscontinuing, building her musical
community.
Yeah, definitely.
And then came the Ascension EPin June 2023.
Keeping up the pace.
Singles like the Giver, oh no, Darling.
Love God, yeah, yeah.
(10:55):
Showing she wasn't slowingdown, continuing to evolve her sound,
building towards something bigger.
Which brings us perfectly topart three.
The evolving artist, herinfluences, and the big one, her
debut album, Escaper.
Right.
Diving deeper now.
We know she's alt pop, butthose classical roots are still there,
influencing things.
She actually names names, right?
(11:15):
Chopin, Beethoven, ClaraSchumann, Debussy, Ravel.
It's quite a list.
How do you think thoseinfluences actually manifest in her
pop music?
It seems like such a leap.
It's not always direct, like Isaid, but maybe from Chopin or Debussy
you get those flowingmelodies, those atmospheric synth
texture she builds.
Beethoven might inspire asense of like dramatic structure
(11:38):
or emotional weight.
And Schumann or Ravel, maybesophistication in the harmonies.
Exactly.
It's like she absorbed theirunderstanding of musicality, of how
to build tension and release,how to create color and depth.
And she applies thoseprinciples within her own modern,
electronic infused pop framework.
So it enriches her toolbox massively.
(11:58):
Absolutely.
And then her pop influencesare just as important.
She's talked a lot aboutLorde, Melodrama specifically.
Yeah.
Calls it a heavy inspiration.
She aims for that kind of song.
Juicy, sweet, daring, open,intimate, full with no bounds.
That's a high bar.
But you can hear that ambitionin her work, that desire for depth
and boldness.
Totally.
And her taste is wide rangingbeyond that too.
(12:20):
Fleetwood Mac, eba, Sting, theEagles, Foreigner, Madonna, it's
all in there.
Classic rock harmonies, popmastery, lyrical depth, iconic boundary
pushing.
It all feeds into this uniquesoup that becomes her sound, pretty
much.
Which leads us to Escaper, thedebut album, Huge Step, released
September 6, 2024.
(12:41):
We heard singles like LastTime, We Never Meet Again, starling
realms leading up to it,building anticipation.
And the title itself, Escaper,has a really interesting story behind
its meaning.
It evolved.
How so?
It started as being about herown tendency to escape.
Yeah, exactly.
Her escapist tendencies.
Using you Know imagination orcreating other worlds as a way to
(13:04):
cope when reality or maybedifficult truths felt like.
Too much, which is super relatable.
We all do that sometimes, I think.
Right.
But then the meaning shifted,deepened as she worked on the album
into something.
More complex, much more.
It became not just aboutrunning away, but about the really
hard work of coming back.
Coming back to yourself,coming back to yourself.
Choosing to rejoin society, community.
(13:24):
Accepting the world as it is,flaws and all.
And crucially, accepting itwithout certain people you love in
it anymore.
Wow, that hits hard.
Accepting the world after loss.
She calls that the painfulchoice, the conscious decision to
return and re engage eventhough the world is fundamentally
changed.
That's why it's called Escaper.
It reframes escaping as thisact of profound courage.
(13:47):
Ultimately.
That's incredibly insightful.
Turning avoidance intoconfrontation and acceptance.
Yeah, and it makes it clearthe album is deeply, deeply rooted
in grief and loss.
Very personal stuff she's exploring.
The vulnerability is just palpable.
Let's talk about specific tracks.
Nights really connected withpeople, didn't it?
Sonically, too.
Oh, yeah.
(14:08):
It's got that really distinctsynth sound.
From that tiny little thing.
The OP one.
That's the one.
It looks almost like a toy.
Less than 20 keys, just four knobs.
But it's incredibly versatile.
It can do all sorts of synthesis.
And she plays it live.
It's not just a loop.
No, she emphasizes that.
She's playing the Arpegg,twisting those knobs in real time
to shape the sound, make it evolve.
(14:29):
That's why it feels so alive.
Creates that rich, incrediblesound she mentioned.
But it was hard to finish.
Apparently the hardest on the album.
She said the structure wasreally strange and wonky, Took a
lot of wrestling, butultimately cathartic.
Deeply cathartic and fun, she said.
And it features StellaMazagawa from War Paint on drums.
Oh, cool.
(14:49):
What does she bring?
Sarah loved her playing.
Called it very technical, butalso very emotional.
Said Stella just filled thesonic canvas with whatever she felt.
Sounds like a great collaboration.
That trust, that freedom.
You can hear it.
Okay, so if Nights was hard tofinish, which one was hardest to
write?
That would be Beautiful Things.
What was that one?
So tough.
Just the sheer intimacy of it.
(15:10):
Who she was writing about,what she was processing.
Remember, the album is steepedin grief, right?
And she had this massiveinternal struggle.
Feeling ridiculous was her word.
Writing songs about somethingso personal, so painful, and then
having to, you know, sell it,promote it.
The commodification of grief, essentially.
That worry.
Exactly.
(15:30):
Was she shrinking somethinghuge like death into a consumable
product.
Was she diminishing thegreatness of the person she lost
just to benefit her career?
These are heavy ethicalquestions for an artist.
Absolutely.
It shows how seriously shetakes her responsibility.
It really does.
Her whole philosophy seems tobe about embracing complexity, showing
(15:51):
the good and the bad, stayingambiguous, never being one sided.
And she feels like wordssometimes just aren't enough.
Right?
Yeah.
Lyrics, words, language is notenough to capture an emotion that
is just so beyond.
It's a really profound pointabout the limits of art when facing
overwhelming emotion.
But despite finding it hard,she actually likes talking about
(16:12):
grief now.
She does.
She sees it as undeniable,central to the album.
And she wants it to be present.
She doesn't shy away from it.
She broadens the definition too.
Right.
Not just loss of a person.
Yeah.
Grief for a past self, Lostrelationships, friendships, a version
of the world that's gone.
She sees it as something we carry.
From birth almost, and findsit beautiful.
Very beautiful, she says.
(16:33):
A way to honor what or who was lost.
It's a really powerful reframe.
Turning pain into tribute.
That honesty, that willingnessto sit with discomfort, is probably
why her music connects so deeply.
I think so.
It feels incredibly generous artistically.
Okay.
Let's shift slightly in part four.
Look beyond the music at someof her personal reflections, future
(16:55):
stuff.
She's only 24 now, but shetalked about being worried about
turning 20.
Yeah.
Looking back, she says her 20year old self just would not believe
any of it.
The tours, the album,everything that's happened.
That feeling of how did I get here?
Must be intense.
Totally.
And it makes performing oldersongs a strange experience for her
now.
Like weird time travel.
Exactly.
(17:15):
Singing those lyrics takes herright back to who she was at that
moment, what she was feeling then.
Her discography is like apublic audible diary.
That's a cool way to thinkabout it.
And she contrasts her pathwith like a more normal post college
path.
Yeah.
The straightforward graduateget a job route.
Her journey has been anythingbut street.
Super confusing and kind ofoverwhelming at times, she admits.
(17:37):
Winding roads, definitely.
But she feels she's on theright one.
Even with the confusion,there's a sense of underlying purpose.
And she still seems genuinely amazed.
To be in the heart of it.
Right.
Living this life that oncefelt like an impossible dream.
Absolutely.
Considering she picturedherself behind a desk at a label
and now she's headlining tours.
(17:59):
It's a huge shift, A testamentto her talent and drive.
Taking her places she didn't expect.
It really is.
Now, besides the deep Stuff.
There's that playful visualelement we see sometimes.
Ah, the running barefoot onthe beach.
Yes.
It's become a signature almost.
Someone actually called herout on it playfully.
Yeah, she just laughs about it.
So she does it because it makes.
(18:19):
Her feel free, liberated,connecting with nature, feeling grounded.
Seems like it.
She feels most true to herart, most authentic.
When she's in nature like that.
It connects back to thatvulnerability and unraveling theme.
But it also shows a lighter side.
Right.
Her goofball side.
Totally.
A chance to just let loose.
Like filming the nights video,which deals with heavy themes.
(18:41):
But they're out there atRockaway beach at 4 or 5am running
around.
It balances the intensity.
It makes her feel more human,Less like just an introspective artist
figure.
Exactly.
And looking forward, she'sdefinitely not resting.
The journey continues.
Three EPs, the debut album.
The momentum is there.
What's next?
Immediately headlining theEscaper tour.
(19:02):
Taking the album on the road.
That's a big focus.
Playing her own shows,connecting directly with fans who
love this new work.
And also some really coolsupport slots.
Opening for Mitsky for a dateon her tour.
Wow, Mitsky.
That's huge.
And opening for Nitsky on herAustralian tour dates in 2025.
So building her audience,gaining experience on big stages
(19:23):
alongside her own headlining shows.
It shows continued growth.
Definitely.
She's evolving as an artist,as a performer, navigating this whole
complex industry.
So wrapping this up then,we've traced Sarah Kinsley from those
early classical roots.
That emotional playing throughthe move to Singapore.
The Instagram covers thatpivotal moment.
Deciding to self produce.
(19:45):
Columbia, balancing act.
The TikTok explosion with the King.
The introspective journey ofCyprus and Ascension.
And now the deep dive intogrief and acceptance with the Scaper.
Her dedication to her vision,challenging norms, turning personal
pain into something universal.
It's quite a story.
It really is.
It speaks to passion,resilience, being willing to be vulnerable.
(20:08):
I think it resonates withanyone who's navigated growth or
tried to express somethingdeep through creativity.
Definitely.
And maybe a final thought forour listeners to chew on.
Go for it.
How can these really intensepersonal experiences like grief be
turned into art that helpsboth the creator and the audience?
What are the complexities, theethics of sharing that kind of vulnerability?
(20:29):
And how do we as listenersengage with that?
Respectfully honoring theartist's journey without simplifying
it or making it purely about consumption.
Heavy questions, but importantones when engaging with art.
This personal, for sure.
And the best way to engagereally is to listen.
Absolutely dive into hermusic, the King, Cyprus Ascension
and especially the new album, Escaper.
(20:50):
Experience the sounds, thethemes, the whole journey for yourself.
It's rich, rewarding stuff.
Who is Sarah Kinsley?
That's the question we'rereally getting into today.
Yeah.
And it's a fascinating one.
It really is.
We're looking at this.
Well, this journey of anartist who kind of blew up, went
viral while she was still, youknow, in college.
Right.
Juggling classes and thisexploding music career.
Exactly.
But then you look closer, andher music tackles some.
(00:22):
Some really deep themes.
Grief, escapism, heavy stuff,but presented in this incredibly
unique alt pop way.
It's captivating.
Totally.
So our mission today basicallyis to unpack all that.
Her background, which ispretty unique.
Classical roots meeting pop innovation.
Yeah.
We want to dig into how sheactually makes her music, her process,
(00:43):
and really understand what'sgoing on with her latest work.
What makes that voice so, Iguess, resonant.
Why does it connect?
Exactly.
Expect some surprises, maybesome aha moments, you know, trying
to see how an artist like herfinds her footing today.
Yeah.
It's more than just a bio,isn't it?
It's about how that distinctvoice, that uniqueness emerges now,
especially that blend, the.
(01:03):
Classical discipline mixedwith, like, raw feeling and being
smart about the digital world.
Okay, so let's start at thebeginning, her early years.
Yeah.
How did music become, as sheputs it, everything?
Well, she was born back in2000 in Mountain View, California.
Silaton Valley, actually.
Oh, interesting.
But she didn't say long.
Nope, just the first fivemonths or so.
(01:25):
She mostly grew up in a smalltown in Connecticut, so very east
coast upbringing, largely.
And she's of Chinese Americandescent, too.
Right.
Adds another layer.
It does.
And music, from what she says,wasn't just, like, a hobby.
It was everywhere, alwaysthere, she said.
Yeah.
And eventually inseparablefrom life.
That's pretty intense.
It sounds less like she pickedmusic and more like music picked
(01:47):
her.
Yeah, totally.
Like it was just part of her makeup.
And that connection showed upearly in, well, pretty ser.
Classical training.
Right.
The piano and violin.
Lots of practice.
Youth orchestras.
And apparently even back then,people noticed her performances were
really emotional.
So it wasn't just about technique.
Even as a kid, she was alreadychanneling feeling.
(02:07):
Seems like it.
Which, you know, definitelyforeshadows her songwriting later
on.
It's not just about clever production.
There's real heart there, afoundation built on discipline and
emotion.
Okay.
But then her world shiftsquite dramatically.
Yeah.
Big time.
Middle school.
The whole family moves.
Where to?
Singapore.
She went to an internationalschool there.
(02:28):
Wow.
Okay.
Connecticut to Singapore.
That's a huge change,especially at that age.
Absolutely.
Imagine the cultural exposure,the different perspectives it must
have broadened her horizons massively.
And she actually connects thatperiod in her classical training,
during that period to how shemakes music now.
She does.
She said it was important forher later production process.
(02:49):
It's like laying down thisdeep, complex wiring, you know, ready
for the pop sensibility toplug into later.
So it's not like you hear, Idon't know, a string quartet in her
songs necessarily.
Not literally, no.
It's more subtle.
It's maybe in the structure,the way she layers sounds, the harmonic
choices that are maybe a bitunexpected for pop.
Like an over plus under or Starling.
(03:11):
You can kind of hear that complexity.
Exactly.
It's like having this deeperarchitectural understanding even
when you're building somethingvery modern and fresh.
The classical training givesher that framework that makes sense.
It's a foundation, not a blueprint.
She has to follow rigidly, precisely.
So after Singapore, sheeventually lands in New York City,
and that's when she startsexploring pop more directly.
(03:34):
And how did that start?
Was she writing her own stuffright away?
Not quite for publicconsumption at first.
She started, like a lot ofyoung artists do, by posting covers
online on Instagram.
Like Justin Bieber, Julia Michaels.
Yep.
Those kinds of artists.
Putting her voice out there.
But she was shy about itinitially, apparently.
Yeah.
Which is relatable.
(03:54):
Right.
Putting your voice, your artout there is vulnerable.
Totally.
But the reaction was positive.
People liked the covers.
And that positive feedback,that validation was really crucial
for her.
That gave her the confidenceto keep going.
It seems like it.
It encouraged her to exploremore, maybe trust her instincts a
bit.
It was an important step.
Yeah.
You need that little push sometimes.
(04:15):
Okay.
So this leads us towards areally key moment.
Getting into production herself.
She's in New York.
Right.
And years after her time inSingapore, she reconnects with someone
from her past.
A former classmate, Luke Bradford.
He'd become a producer workingunder the name Ford.
Okay.
And he reached out.
Yeah.
Seems he saw her covers orknew she was musical.
(04:35):
They ended up collaborating ona track called Craving.
How did that work?
She wrote lyrics.
She wrote the lyrics?
Yeah.
And Ford handled all the production.
On the surface, it looks likea great opportunity for her.
But.
There's always a but.
While the reaction to the songbecame this major catalyst for her,
she got compliments, but shecalled them twisted.
(04:56):
Compliments.
Twisted.
What does she mean by that?
Because all the praise was forthe production, for Ford's work.
Nobody seemed to notice orcredit her input beyond just singing
the lyrics.
Ah.
So she felt like just afeature vocalist, not a Collaborator
in the sound.
Exactly.
She had zero input into howthe track actually sounded, the arrangement,
the instruments.
(05:16):
And that lack of recognition,that oversight really, really bothered
her.
I could see why.
It made her realize she didn'tjust want to write and sing.
She wanted to build the wholesonic world herself.
She wanted to be the architect.
That's a powerful realization.
Not just wanting creativecontrol, but wanting the credit and
recognition for the full, full artistry.
(05:36):
Absolutely.
And it wasn't just a personal thing.
It got amplified by somethingelse she learned around that time.
What was that?
A statistic from a USCAnnenberg report in 2018.
It found that only like 2% ofmusic producers identified as female.
Wow, 2%.
That's stark.
Incredibly stark.
And knowing that seeing thatnumber fueled her drive even more.
(05:58):
It wasn't just I want toproduce, it became I need to produce.
So it became a mission almostto challenge that imbalance.
Pretty much.
She explicitly decided shewanted to produce every single part
of her music herself.
It was a statement, a way topush back against that underrepresentation
and show it could be done.
That takes serious determination.
Yeah.
And it connects directly toher experiences later.
(06:19):
Right.
Even in academic settings.
Yeah, absolutely.
Which brings us neatly intoher college years.
That whole period ofbreakthrough and viral success.
Okay, part two.
She's at Columbia Universitystudying music theory.
Right.
Deep in the academic world.
But her music career isstarting to bubble up fast.
Real balancing act.
And she found this brilliantway to merge the two worlds, didn't
(06:41):
she?
She really did.
Some of her assignmentsactually required her to produce
and record songs.
So she just released them, basically.
Yeah.
She used these assignments as opportunities.
Her single over plus underfrom 2021, that actually got her
a good grade in a class.
That's genius.
Academic credit.
And a hit single.
Well, a buzzy single anyway.
Talk about practical application.
(07:01):
Right?
Yeah.
And she was also involved inother musical things at Columbia,
like the capella group NonSequitur, a cappella, which is, you
know, intense vocal arranging,harmonies, rhythm, all with just
voices.
You can definitely see howthat would sharpen her skills for
layering vocals and creatingcomplex textures in her own productions.
(07:22):
Totally.
It's all about how differentparts fit together to make a whole
sound.
But her time at Columbiawasn't all smooth sailing, especially
regarding production.
Right.
She mentioned encountering asort of male geared environment.
Yeah.
Feeling like male classmatesmight speak over her or their ideas
were given more weight inproduction discussions.
So the very issue she wasreacting to with that 2% statistic,
(07:45):
she was seeing glimpses of itin her Own university classes.
Seems that way.
It just solidified herconviction that female producers
needed more recognition, morespace, more amplification.
It wasn't abstract.
It was her reality.
Man, that must have been frustrating.
But also validating in a weird way.
Like, okay, this is real and Iam gonna push against it.
Exactly.
(08:06):
And the tension between herstudies and her music career was
intense.
There's that story.
The final exam in the MercuryLounge show.
Yeah.
On the same day she had thisgig at a really cool New York venue.
A big step, but also a finalexam looming.
What did she do?
Had to plead with herprofessor to let her take the exam
early, like in the morning, soshe could literally race downtown
(08:27):
for soundcheck.
I just picture her runningnotes, flying, guitar case banging.
Yeah, it's almost like a movie scene.
It really captures thatpressure cooker moment.
Music, which had been thisescape, this.
Intense pipe dream, suddenlybecame very, very real and demanding.
Yeah, she hadn't evennecessarily seen herself being the
artist.
She thought maybe she'd workat a label, you know, behind the
(08:49):
scenes.
But the universe had other plans.
Or maybe TikTok did, becausethat's what happened next, right?
June 4, 2021, she drops the EP.
The Kung, and the title track just.
Explodes on TikTok overnight, practically.
Suddenly, she's not just atalented student, she's a name people
are hearing everywhere.
It shows the sheer power ofthat platform.
Unpredictable but massivepotential reach.
(09:11):
Undeniable.
It launched her into a muchwider consciousness.
And the EP itself got greatreviews too.
Right.
It wasn't just the viral moment.
No, critics really dug it.
Praised her vocals, thesongwriting, the whole package.
They noted how meticulouslycrafted it was.
Even though it's short.
That production work paid off.
So the substance was there toback up the hype.
(09:32):
Definitely.
And the industry noticed.
It got on a big top debutprojects of 2021 list.
She was named one of the topemerging artists for the next year.
That kind of recognition musthave opened doors for sure.
It signals real potential, notjust a fleeting trend.
And she kept the momentumgoing with.
The Cypress EP in 2022.
Right.
June 10, 2022.
(09:53):
And the lead single for thatone, hills of Fire, has an interesting
origin.
Where did that come from?
It came from a time when sheactually needed to step back.
After the King blew up, therewas all this press interviews, noise.
Understandable.
That must have been overwhelming.
So she went back toCalifornia, where she was born, just
to get away from it all, findsome quiet.
And that's where Cyprusstarted taking shape.
(10:14):
Yeah, she said the EP's themebecame about unraveling the growth
of uncertainty, the unknowing.
And Hills of Fire capturesthat feeling.
Kind of finding your waythrough the fog.
Exactly.
And the title Cypress camefrom seeing all the cypress trees
out there in California.
Became a symbol for her duringthat time.
Resilience, maybe.
Standing tall through change.
(10:35):
Could be.
And then she toured for thatep often with Jane Pocnia, another
musician she knew from Colombia.
Nice to see those connectionscontinuing, building her musical
community.
Yeah, definitely.
And then came the Ascension EPin June 2023.
Keeping up the pace.
Singles like the Giver, oh no, Darling.
Love God, yeah, yeah.
(10:55):
Showing she wasn't slowingdown, continuing to evolve her sound,
building towards something bigger.
Which brings us perfectly topart three.
The evolving artist, herinfluences, and the big one, her
debut album, Escaper.
Right.
Diving deeper now.
We know she's alt pop, butthose classical roots are still there,
influencing things.
She actually names names, right?
(11:15):
Chopin, Beethoven, ClaraSchumann, Debussy, Ravel.
It's quite a list.
How do you think thoseinfluences actually manifest in her
pop music?
It seems like such a leap.
It's not always direct, like Isaid, but maybe from Chopin or Debussy
you get those flowingmelodies, those atmospheric synth
texture she builds.
Beethoven might inspire asense of like dramatic structure
(11:38):
or emotional weight.
And Schumann or Ravel, maybesophistication in the harmonies.
Exactly.
It's like she absorbed theirunderstanding of musicality, of how
to build tension and release,how to create color and depth.
And she applies thoseprinciples within her own modern,
electronic infused pop framework.
So it enriches her toolbox massively.
(11:58):
Absolutely.
And then her pop influencesare just as important.
She's talked a lot aboutLorde, Melodrama specifically.
Yeah.
Calls it a heavy inspiration.
She aims for that kind of song.
Juicy, sweet, daring, open,intimate, full with no bounds.
That's a high bar.
But you can hear that ambitionin her work, that desire for depth
and boldness.
Totally.
And her taste is wide rangingbeyond that too.
(12:20):
Fleetwood Mac, eba, Sting, theEagles, Foreigner, Madonna, it's
all in there.
Classic rock harmonies, popmastery, lyrical depth, iconic boundary
pushing.
It all feeds into this uniquesoup that becomes her sound, pretty
much.
Which leads us to Escaper, thedebut album, Huge Step, released
September 6, 2024.
(12:41):
We heard singles like LastTime, We Never Meet Again, starling
realms leading up to it,building anticipation.
And the title itself, Escaper,has a really interesting story behind
its meaning.
It evolved.
How so?
It started as being about herown tendency to escape.
Yeah, exactly.
Her escapist tendencies.
Using you Know imagination orcreating other worlds as a way to
(13:04):
cope when reality or maybedifficult truths felt like.
Too much, which is super relatable.
We all do that sometimes, I think.
Right.
But then the meaning shifted,deepened as she worked on the album
into something.
More complex, much more.
It became not just aboutrunning away, but about the really
hard work of coming back.
Coming back to yourself,coming back to yourself.
Choosing to rejoin society, community.
(13:24):
Accepting the world as it is,flaws and all.
And crucially, accepting itwithout certain people you love in
it anymore.
Wow, that hits hard.
Accepting the world after loss.
She calls that the painfulchoice, the conscious decision to
return and re engage eventhough the world is fundamentally
changed.
That's why it's called Escaper.
It reframes escaping as thisact of profound courage.
(13:47):
Ultimately.
That's incredibly insightful.
Turning avoidance intoconfrontation and acceptance.
Yeah, and it makes it clearthe album is deeply, deeply rooted
in grief and loss.
Very personal stuff she's exploring.
The vulnerability is just palpable.
Let's talk about specific tracks.
Nights really connected withpeople, didn't it?
Sonically, too.
Oh, yeah.
(14:08):
It's got that really distinctsynth sound.
From that tiny little thing.
The OP one.
That's the one.
It looks almost like a toy.
Less than 20 keys, just four knobs.
But it's incredibly versatile.
It can do all sorts of synthesis.
And she plays it live.
It's not just a loop.
No, she emphasizes that.
She's playing the Arpegg,twisting those knobs in real time
to shape the sound, make it evolve.
(14:29):
That's why it feels so alive.
Creates that rich, incrediblesound she mentioned.
But it was hard to finish.
Apparently the hardest on the album.
She said the structure wasreally strange and wonky, Took a
lot of wrestling, butultimately cathartic.
Deeply cathartic and fun, she said.
And it features StellaMazagawa from War Paint on drums.
Oh, cool.
(14:49):
What does she bring?
Sarah loved her playing.
Called it very technical, butalso very emotional.
Said Stella just filled thesonic canvas with whatever she felt.
Sounds like a great collaboration.
That trust, that freedom.
You can hear it.
Okay, so if Nights was hard tofinish, which one was hardest to
write?
That would be Beautiful Things.
What was that one?
So tough.
Just the sheer intimacy of it.
(15:10):
Who she was writing about,what she was processing.
Remember, the album is steepedin grief, right?
And she had this massiveinternal struggle.
Feeling ridiculous was her word.
Writing songs about somethingso personal, so painful, and then
having to, you know, sell it,promote it.
The commodification of grief, essentially.
That worry.
Exactly.
(15:30):
Was she shrinking somethinghuge like death into a consumable
product.
Was she diminishing thegreatness of the person she lost
just to benefit her career?
These are heavy ethicalquestions for an artist.
Absolutely.
It shows how seriously shetakes her responsibility.
It really does.
Her whole philosophy seems tobe about embracing complexity, showing
(15:51):
the good and the bad, stayingambiguous, never being one sided.
And she feels like wordssometimes just aren't enough.
Right?
Yeah.
Lyrics, words, language is notenough to capture an emotion that
is just so beyond.
It's a really profound pointabout the limits of art when facing
overwhelming emotion.
But despite finding it hard,she actually likes talking about
(16:12):
grief now.
She does.
She sees it as undeniable,central to the album.
And she wants it to be present.
She doesn't shy away from it.
She broadens the definition too.
Right.
Not just loss of a person.
Yeah.
Grief for a past self, Lostrelationships, friendships, a version
of the world that's gone.
She sees it as something we carry.
From birth almost, and findsit beautiful.
Very beautiful, she says.
(16:33):
A way to honor what or who was lost.
It's a really powerful reframe.
Turning pain into tribute.
That honesty, that willingnessto sit with discomfort, is probably
why her music connects so deeply.
I think so.
It feels incredibly generous artistically.
Okay.
Let's shift slightly in part four.
Look beyond the music at someof her personal reflections, future
(16:55):
stuff.
She's only 24 now, but shetalked about being worried about
turning 20.
Yeah.
Looking back, she says her 20year old self just would not believe
any of it.
The tours, the album,everything that's happened.
That feeling of how did I get here?
Must be intense.
Totally.
And it makes performing oldersongs a strange experience for her
now.
Like weird time travel.
Exactly.
(17:15):
Singing those lyrics takes herright back to who she was at that
moment, what she was feeling then.
Her discography is like apublic audible diary.
That's a cool way to thinkabout it.
And she contrasts her pathwith like a more normal post college
path.
Yeah.
The straightforward graduateget a job route.
Her journey has been anythingbut street.
Super confusing and kind ofoverwhelming at times, she admits.
(17:37):
Winding roads, definitely.
But she feels she's on theright one.
Even with the confusion,there's a sense of underlying purpose.
And she still seems genuinely amazed.
To be in the heart of it.
Right.
Living this life that oncefelt like an impossible dream.
Absolutely.
Considering she picturedherself behind a desk at a label
and now she's headlining tours.
(17:59):
It's a huge shift, A testamentto her talent and drive.
Taking her places she didn't expect.
It really is.
Now, besides the deep Stuff.
There's that playful visualelement we see sometimes.
Ah, the running barefoot onthe beach.
Yes.
It's become a signature almost.
Someone actually called herout on it playfully.
Yeah, she just laughs about it.
So she does it because it makes.
(18:19):
Her feel free, liberated,connecting with nature, feeling grounded.
Seems like it.
She feels most true to herart, most authentic.
When she's in nature like that.
It connects back to thatvulnerability and unraveling theme.
But it also shows a lighter side.
Right.
Her goofball side.
Totally.
A chance to just let loose.
Like filming the nights video,which deals with heavy themes.
(18:41):
But they're out there atRockaway beach at 4 or 5am running
around.
It balances the intensity.
It makes her feel more human,Less like just an introspective artist
figure.
Exactly.
And looking forward, she'sdefinitely not resting.
The journey continues.
Three EPs, the debut album.
The momentum is there.
What's next?
Immediately headlining theEscaper tour.
(19:02):
Taking the album on the road.
That's a big focus.
Playing her own shows,connecting directly with fans who
love this new work.
And also some really coolsupport slots.
Opening for Mitsky for a dateon her tour.
Wow, Mitsky.
That's huge.
And opening for Nitsky on herAustralian tour dates in 2025.
So building her audience,gaining experience on big stages
(19:23):
alongside her own headlining shows.
It shows continued growth.
Definitely.
She's evolving as an artist,as a performer, navigating this whole
complex industry.
So wrapping this up then,we've traced Sarah Kinsley from those
early classical roots.
That emotional playing throughthe move to Singapore.
The Instagram covers thatpivotal moment.
Deciding to self produce.
(19:45):
Columbia, balancing act.
The TikTok explosion with the King.
The introspective journey ofCyprus and Ascension.
And now the deep dive intogrief and acceptance with the Scaper.
Her dedication to her vision,challenging norms, turning personal
pain into something universal.
It's quite a story.
It really is.
It speaks to passion,resilience, being willing to be vulnerable.
(20:08):
I think it resonates withanyone who's navigated growth or
tried to express somethingdeep through creativity.
Definitely.
And maybe a final thought forour listeners to chew on.
Go for it.
How can these really intensepersonal experiences like grief be
turned into art that helpsboth the creator and the audience?
What are the complexities, theethics of sharing that kind of vulnerability?
(20:29):
And how do we as listenersengage with that?
Respectfully honoring theartist's journey without simplifying
it or making it purely about consumption.
Heavy questions, but importantones when engaging with art.
This personal, for sure.
And the best way to engagereally is to listen.
Absolutely dive into hermusic, the King, Cyprus Ascension
and especially the new album, Escaper.
(20:50):
Experience the sounds, thethemes, the whole journey for yourself.
It's rich, rewarding stuff.
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