June 3, 2025 • 19 mins
John and Amy talk about the best ways to enjoy the classic Chicago condiment, how to pronounce it, John's rankings of the best jarred versions, and whether the hosts are true Chicagoans.
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Amy Cavanaugh (00:01):
John, how do you say it?
John Kessler (00:01):
I mean, I kind of say jar-din-AIR, but that's just
because I want real Chicagoansto think I'm cool, and none of
them do, but I don't know theguy at my local pizza place says
jar-din-AIR, so I follow hislead.
Amy Cavanaugh (00:46):
Welcome to Dish From Chicago Magazine. I'm Amy
Cavanaugh, Chicago magazine'sdining editor.
John Kessler (00:51):
And I'm John Kessler, Chicago magazine's
dining critic.
Amy Cavanaugh (00:55):
Today we're talking all things giardiniera,
which we cover in depth in ournew June-July issue. We have a
recipe from Monteverde ChefSarah Grueneberg. We put
together a list of our ninefavorite ways to experience
giardiniera around the city, andwe have a taste test in which
John names the No. 1 jarredversion that you can get around
(01:16):
town. We'll get into all of thatand more, and then we'll wrap up
by sharing the best things we'veeaten lately, which includes a
tavern-style pizza at a buzzynew hotspot.
John Kessler (01:33):
So I have to admit something, which is that I grew
up in Chevy Chase Maryland,which is like the most
un-Italian place in the entireEast Coast. And so I did not
know Chicago-style giardinieravery well before I moved here. I
was, of course, familiar withthe more Italian kind that
(01:54):
isn't, that's just pickledvegetables, you know, packed in
brine, but not in oil. So Ilearned to love it. After I
moved here, I kind of figuredout on my own that the very best
pizza is a tavern-style,party-cut pizza covered with
sausage and giardinara, and onceI put that equation together, I
(02:17):
have never looked back. Howabout you?
Amy Cavanaugh (02:20):
My relationship is very similar. I did not know
what it was until I moved hereas well. I'm from Western
Massachusetts, and I grew upeating Greek pickled veggies
called toursi, which is verysimilar to the Italian style.
And so I always loved pickles,and that was always a favorite
snack when I was a kid. So I'mgoing to take naturally to
(02:41):
anything sort of like pickleyand spicy, but yeah, it was a
condiment that I didn't knowuntil I moved here, and now I
love it, and I'm with you onpizza. One of the reasons we
want to do this feature ongiardiniera is it feels like
we're seeing it more and morelately, seeing it across all
types of cuisines. We're seeingit used in really novel ways. I
(03:02):
think that chefs are reallyembracing that spicy, pickly
flavor. We know that the Italianbeef is having a moment thanks
to The Bear. And so, you knowwhere Italian beef goes,
giardiniera follows. And so Ithink there are a number of
reasons why we're seeing iteverywhere. I'm thrilled. I
love, you know, anytime I canget some spicy food, and, you
(03:23):
know, I love that it's somethingthat has such a strong Chicago
connection. But as we wereworking on this, one thing that
repeatedly came up is how topronounce this word. There,
seemed there are multiple waysthere. I think there are two
ways that are acceptable, andthen I've heard many other ways
that probably aren't quitegetting it right. John, how do
you say it?
John Kessler (03:44):
I mean, I kind of say jar-din-AIR, but that's just
because I want real Chicagoansto think I'm cool. But I don't
know the guy at my local pizzaplace says jar-din-AIR, so I
follow his lead. How about you?
Amy Cavanaugh (04:00):
I say jar-din-AIR-ah with hitting the
A at the end, but I feel like Imaybe hear jar-din-AIR More most
frequently. I guess both areacceptable. I think Jeff Mauro
has a t-shirt that says that,so, maybe it's says
jar-din-AIR-ah. The othergiardiniera debate that I saw
coming up when we were reportingthis, and people feel very
(04:21):
strongly about this, is whetherthere are olives or no olives.
And I know some of the ones inyour taste test had olives. Some
didn't. Do you have apreference?
John Kessler (04:31):
I mean, I never say no to an olive, so I'm, I'm,
you know, Team Olive on this,but I can see why it doesn't
belong. I mean, it's not acrispy, crunchy vegetable the
way everything else is. And, youknow, I can see getting into a
bit of a lather about that,although, you know, life is
short and I'd rather argue aboutother things.
Amy Cavanaugh (04:52):
At what point do you become a real Chicagoan?
John Kessler (04:54):
My guess is never.
I'm trying to think, I've been a— like, I felt like I became a
real Atlantan after about 10years. I still don't feel like a
real Chicago. And I don't know,do you are you a real Chicagoan?
I can't tell.
Amy Cavanaugh (05:09):
I've been here 15 years, and I don't think so. I
feel like it's one of theseplaces you have to grow up here
to truly be a Chicagoan. I don'tknow.
John Kessler (05:19):
I mean, I'm learning. I'm saying like, you
know, I'll call it Jewel now,not Jewel-Osco, and I get nods
of approval. So.
Amy Cavanaugh (05:27):
Every time I walk to get a tavern-style pizza and
a bottle of soda on a Fridaynight, that's when I feel like
I'm a real Chicagoan. So we dida big Italian beef feature last
fall, and we were thinkingabout, you know, what are some
other classic Chicago foods thatwe should feature? And
giardiniera seems an obviousone. So we thought about, you
(05:50):
know, all the different facetsof it. We love, the version that
Sarah Grueneberg makes atMonteverde. She puts it on her
smoked fish dip, which we bothlove. And yes, and that one is
so good, we named that one ofour best dishes in the city back
in 2023 and so when I knew wewanted a recipe, she was my
(06:11):
first choice, and she said, Yes,so we have a recipe from her,
and we also tapped chefs aroundtown to get their tips for the
best ways to make it. I thinkwhat's cool about giardiniera is
that there is no one singlerecipe, and so you can really
take it and run with it and makeit your own. And every chef
makes it differently and so andthey use it differently too, as
(06:34):
you know, we kind of saw in the"Nine Best Ways to Experience
Giardiniera", which is kind ofour anchor feature here. So we
both contributed some some picksto this nine best ways list, you
wrote about the longanisa andgiardiniera pizza, at Novel
Pizza. Why is that a greatgiardiniera experience?
John Kessler (06:50):
Because the flavor is just so spot on. It is like
that mixture of sweetness,porky, oily goodness and hot,
spicy pickle business that justlike, Wow, I love it. And it's
(07:11):
so, like, perfectly calibrated.
So I think about that pizza veryfrequently, and I will tell
anybody who's listening that thetrick is go in the middle of the
afternoon when it's not busy,get a pizza, wolf down three
pieces while you're there afterit comes out, and then bring the
(07:31):
rest home, and you will be ahappy person.
Amy Cavanaugh (07:32):
That sounds perfect. You also wrote about a
dish from Meat Moot, whichremains one of my favorite
restaurant names in town. Tellme about this one.
John Kessler (07:41):
So Meat Moot is this like multinational chain
restaurant with its headquartersin Turkey, and they make Halal
smoked meat in these you know,this bank of smokers, when you
walk in, it's different kinds ofcuts of beef and lamb. It is
absolutely delicious, you know,just fall-apart, tender,
(08:05):
delicious smoked meat that comeswith a zillion different kinds
of sauce and seasonings and sidedishes. You pay for the meat by
the pound and everything else isas much as you want. So when it
comes to the table, they kind oflocalize it here with a nice big
pile of spicy giardiniera. Andthey also serve it with honey,
(08:27):
which is traditional. You caneven have the honey drizzled all
over the meat after they pull itout of the smoker. But it's that
same thing. It's a sweetness thehot, spicy giardiniera, and that
super rich, fatty meat isheaven.
Amy Cavanaugh (08:41):
Oh, that sounds incredible. I wrote a couple of
these as well. And one of them,of course, is the Italian beef
from Johnnie's. And, you know, Ithink that giardiniera's best
use is for cutting through allthe beefy, fatty dishes. And so,
you know, a hot Italian beef atJohnnie's is a classic. But I
also wrote about the giardinieraaioli at El Che Steakhouse,
(09:03):
which I actually first had on aquail dish. They had a grilled
quail that I was really obsessedwith, and it was like this, the
sauce formed the base of thedish. They don't, it's, it's
like the giardiniera aioli. Sothey use the oil leftover from
J.P. Graziano giardiniera, addtheir own pickled cauliflower,
blend it up, and it's really,really good. And so they always
(09:27):
have a quail, but they change ita lot, and they no longer offer
that quail version, but they usethat giardiniera aioli for their
Italian beef empanadas, and it'sreally good, really tasty.
John Kessler (09:38):
That sounds amazing, and then didn't you
also write about the TrippingBilly giardiniera Salsa?
Amy Cavanaugh (09:45):
I did. He does it with Caruso's, which we'll talk
about later as well. And yeah,he is, you know, the king of
pop-ups, and so he created thisgiardiniera salsa, and it's
really good. It's. I love howit's, you know, it seems silly
to say, but like, thegiardiniera chunks can be, like,
too big if you want to use themon something, like in a dish or
(10:07):
something. So I like how it's,there's a little chunk to it,
but it's more blended. And so itlike, works seamlessly on, like
a breakfast taco or, you know,on nachos or something like that
too. So that's really tasty.
John Kessler (10:19):
Oh, that sounds great. What are some of the
other ones that other writerswrote about?
Amy Cavanaugh (10:24):
Yeah, so Maggie Hennessy wrote about the
giardiniera cream cheese atMindy's Bakery, which,
giardiniera cream cheese soundsabsolutely fabulous, and Mindy's
bagels are, as we know, some ofthe best in town. Cate Huguelet
wrote about the giardinierafocaccia at Zeitlin's
Delicatessen, which I'm reallyexcited is opening a new shop in
(10:44):
Lincoln Park, so not too farfrom me, which is great. And so
they like bake the giardinierainto the focaccia, but then they
also use it on a like as thebread for a turkey sandwich at
the From Here On food hall,which is really cool. But I have
to say that the one dish thatpeople wrote about that I
haven't had that I that I'mlike, dying to go try, is cheese
(11:05):
fries with giardiniera. That's aTitus Ruscitti pick. And I love
cheese fries. And he talkedabout how the hot cheese and the
hot fries with the coolgiardiniera is this just like,
unbelievable combination. Andso, you know, you can certainly
get them elsewhere at you know,I would think most hot dog
stands that sell cheese frieswill have some giardiniera they
(11:26):
can toss on for you. But he'sparticularly a fan of the one at
Little Island in Evanston. Yeah,I had never heard of it, but
they use Merkts cheddar, which,you know, is the best cheese fry
cheese.
John Kessler (11:39):
That sounds like maybe I need to get my bike out
when the weather's nice, andbike up to Evanston and then
reward myself with a big pile ofthat.
Amy Cavanaugh (11:48):
Yes, that sounds like a good summer activity.
Another big part of this featurewas your taste test, which
really had some unexpectedresults. How—
John Kessler (12:07):
my god—
Amy Cavanaugh (12:08):
Walk me through it? How did you do this?
John Kessler (12:11):
So it was a blind taste test. So what we did is we
got a tavern-style pizza andjust put some giardiniera on it,
and I was working with somefolks who were filming it, and
they, you know, mixed things up.
They knew what was what, andthey brought them to me. And I
will tell you, my pickssurprised me. I was not
(12:34):
expecting to like what I likedand not like what I didn't like,
which is why it's a good idea togo blind on this. So when we sat
down to do the taste test, I hada rubric that I looked at, and I
judged the giardiniera on abunch of different criteria. One
(12:59):
was, how spicy was it? Becausethere was, like a real broad mix
there. There was, you know, onefrom face melting to, I could
put Sriracha in it to, you know,give a little more something
going on. I looked at how crispthe vegetables were and how much
of a variety of vegetables therewere. You know, I like seeing
nice little chunks of celery andolive and red pepper, and some
(13:23):
of them have different kinds ofspicy pepper, and I thought the
variety made it moreinteresting. And then I tasted
the oil, because, truth be told,some of the oil seemed a little
off to me.
Amy Cavanaugh (13:39):
You tasted seven, but let's, let's do three, two,
one. What was in third?
John Kessler (13:44):
So third for me was Mauro's, which is a, you
know, much loved local brand.
And I thought it was very, verygood. It was kind of one of the
more complex ones. There waslots of red bell pepper and
olive and other nice things init. And it was just a nice,
broad, pretty spicy flavor. Ishould also add that we just did
(14:11):
the hot giardiniera, right? Youknow, go big or go home, right?
And I thought it was just areally solid hot giardiniera.
No. 2 is called ChicagoJohnny's. Have you seen that in
shops?
Amy Cavanaugh (14:23):
I have seen it, but I've never tried it.
John Kessler (14:26):
It's a little fancy. It's a brand that is made
with olive oil instead of, youknow, expeller pressed canola
oil, like everyone else's is. Soit's a little different color.
That oil is, like, slurpablestuff. It is delicious. It's
very hot. It's not the mostinteresting mix of vegetables or
(14:49):
the crispest texture, but it isjust, it's like the way the fat
carries the flavor in that andto put that on top of something,
that is, you know, just sort oflet that flavor seep in, is
great. So I, I'm a new fan, andI keep it at home now.
Amy Cavanaugh (15:09):
Oh yeah, that one sounds great. I know you
mentioned just like, dippingbread in there. And I was like,
that sounds like a really niceway to, you know, something to
snack on while you make dinner.
John Kessler (15:17):
Right? We should, like, dip some of that
giardiniera bread, thatgiardiniera focaccia, dip it in
that oil and just, you know, letyour mind explode.
Amy Cavanaugh (15:25):
You've got something there, I think.
John Kessler (15:27):
So, right? So my No. 1, big surprise! It was like
one of the cheapest ones wetried, one of the most, easiest
to get. The one you see in allthe supermarkets. It's
Orlando's. I loved it. Thevegetables were crisp. The spice
was great. And the thing Ireally loved about it is it was
vinegary, you know, it wasn'tjust so hot or so oily that
(15:50):
that's all you tasted. You gotthat, like, super bright, acidic
vinegar thing going on. And soit's the one I kind of, you
know, had in back in myrefrigerator, because it was,
you know, what was available toJewel. And I'm glad I have it.
Amy Cavanaugh (16:05):
Yeah, you know, I have mostly been a J.P. Graziano
enjoyer, but I'm gonna have totry this Orlando. I mean, it is
the cheapest. So that's, youknow, that's a surprising pick,
really exciting. So I know therewas one you didn't quite enjoy,.
John Kessler (16:22):
Yeah, which was a surprise. It was Caruso, which I
know is like the giardinierathat everyone says is one of the
best. I picked up a jar of it atAgora Market, and to my taste,
it seemed like the oil wasrancid. And so I thought maybe
it was a bad batch. So I wentback to Agora Market, talked to
(16:44):
them about it. They tasted acouple. They thought it tasted
fine. I got another jar. And itwasn't really rancid so much,
but I just thought the oil hadthis, like this, sort of, I
don't know, weird old paperytaste to it. And, yeah, and then
I went and got Caruso from acompletely different source, and
(17:07):
I felt the same thing. So, butcould've all been from a, you
know, a batch that went off alittle bit. I mean, you know,
oil, you know, they are packedin clear glass jars, and it's,
you know, exposure to sunlightcan give oil off flavors. So,
you know, I'm definitely willingto give another try, but the
three that I tried just didn'tdo it for me.
Amy Cavanaugh (17:35):
John, what's the best thing you ate lately?
John Kessler (17:38):
So I met a friend from out of town who wanted to
have a real Chicago diningexperience. We went to Indienne,
the tasting menu Indianrestaurant, Michelin one star.
And there was one dish therecalled scallop xec xec, with a
Goan-style xec xec curry. It wasjust a beautiful scallop that
(18:01):
had been seared, served withsome Kaluga caviar and a corn
sauce. And it was just likeslurp, slurp, slurp. It was
great. How about you?
Amy Cavanaugh (18:10):
Sounds great. I went to the new Zarella, which
is the Boka restaurant from LeeWolen and Chris Pandel. It was
super fun. That place is reallyresonating. While we were
waiting for our table, therewere, like, multiple people
walking in trying to get seatsand walking out because they
couldn't get bar seats. So it'stotally taken off. A lot of
(18:30):
things to like here. I reallylike the artisan-style crust,
but my favorite was thetavern-style pizza with the
spicy vodka sauce. Really goodtavern style like, I think it
has to be in the conversationamong this, like new wave of
great tavern styles likePizz'amici and Middle Brow. I
like what's happening here. I'mreally here for these new tavern
(18:52):
style takes. So tavern-stylevodka sauce is really a pick.
John Kessler (18:56):
That sounds great.
And I kind of want a, you know,a spicy vodka sauce martini now.
Amy Cavanaugh (19:01):
I did have a pepperoncini martini with it.
John Kessler (19:03):
Oh yeah? How was it?
Amy Cavanaugh (19:04):
It was pretty good. It was less — I was
worried it was going to be alittle intense for me, but it
was not so.
John Kessler (19:10):
Okay.
Amy Cavanaugh (19:11):
I've been trying dirty martinis around town, I
feel like I'm gonna have to dosomething on those soon.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Dish From Chicago
Magazine. Your hosts are diningeditor Amy Cavanaugh and critic
John Kessler, editing by SarahSteimer and music by Bill
(19:32):
Harris. You can find us onlineat Chicagomag.com Please be sure
to follow, rate, and review uswherever you get your podcasts.
We'll see you next time you.
John, how do you say it?
John Kessler (00:01):
I mean, I kind of say jar-din-AIR, but that's just
because I want real Chicagoansto think I'm cool, and none of
them do, but I don't know theguy at my local pizza place says
jar-din-AIR, so I follow hislead.
Amy Cavanaugh (00:46):
Welcome to Dish From Chicago Magazine. I'm Amy
Cavanaugh, Chicago magazine'sdining editor.
John Kessler (00:51):
And I'm John Kessler, Chicago magazine's
dining critic.
Amy Cavanaugh (00:55):
Today we're talking all things giardiniera,
which we cover in depth in ournew June-July issue. We have a
recipe from Monteverde ChefSarah Grueneberg. We put
together a list of our ninefavorite ways to experience
giardiniera around the city, andwe have a taste test in which
John names the No. 1 jarredversion that you can get around
(01:16):
town. We'll get into all of thatand more, and then we'll wrap up
by sharing the best things we'veeaten lately, which includes a
tavern-style pizza at a buzzynew hotspot.
John Kessler (01:33):
So I have to admit something, which is that I grew
up in Chevy Chase Maryland,which is like the most
un-Italian place in the entireEast Coast. And so I did not
know Chicago-style giardinieravery well before I moved here. I
was, of course, familiar withthe more Italian kind that
(01:54):
isn't, that's just pickledvegetables, you know, packed in
brine, but not in oil. So Ilearned to love it. After I
moved here, I kind of figuredout on my own that the very best
pizza is a tavern-style,party-cut pizza covered with
sausage and giardinara, and onceI put that equation together, I
(02:17):
have never looked back. Howabout you?
Amy Cavanaugh (02:20):
My relationship is very similar. I did not know
what it was until I moved hereas well. I'm from Western
Massachusetts, and I grew upeating Greek pickled veggies
called toursi, which is verysimilar to the Italian style.
And so I always loved pickles,and that was always a favorite
snack when I was a kid. So I'mgoing to take naturally to
(02:41):
anything sort of like pickleyand spicy, but yeah, it was a
condiment that I didn't knowuntil I moved here, and now I
love it, and I'm with you onpizza. One of the reasons we
want to do this feature ongiardiniera is it feels like
we're seeing it more and morelately, seeing it across all
types of cuisines. We're seeingit used in really novel ways. I
(03:02):
think that chefs are reallyembracing that spicy, pickly
flavor. We know that the Italianbeef is having a moment thanks
to The Bear. And so, you knowwhere Italian beef goes,
giardiniera follows. And so Ithink there are a number of
reasons why we're seeing iteverywhere. I'm thrilled. I
love, you know, anytime I canget some spicy food, and, you
(03:23):
know, I love that it's somethingthat has such a strong Chicago
connection. But as we wereworking on this, one thing that
repeatedly came up is how topronounce this word. There,
seemed there are multiple waysthere. I think there are two
ways that are acceptable, andthen I've heard many other ways
that probably aren't quitegetting it right. John, how do
you say it?
John Kessler (03:44):
I mean, I kind of say jar-din-AIR, but that's just
because I want real Chicagoansto think I'm cool. But I don't
know the guy at my local pizzaplace says jar-din-AIR, so I
follow his lead. How about you?
Amy Cavanaugh (04:00):
I say jar-din-AIR-ah with hitting the
A at the end, but I feel like Imaybe hear jar-din-AIR More most
frequently. I guess both areacceptable. I think Jeff Mauro
has a t-shirt that says that,so, maybe it's says
jar-din-AIR-ah. The othergiardiniera debate that I saw
coming up when we were reportingthis, and people feel very
(04:21):
strongly about this, is whetherthere are olives or no olives.
And I know some of the ones inyour taste test had olives. Some
didn't. Do you have apreference?
John Kessler (04:31):
I mean, I never say no to an olive, so I'm, I'm,
you know, Team Olive on this,but I can see why it doesn't
belong. I mean, it's not acrispy, crunchy vegetable the
way everything else is. And, youknow, I can see getting into a
bit of a lather about that,although, you know, life is
short and I'd rather argue aboutother things.
Amy Cavanaugh (04:52):
At what point do you become a real Chicagoan?
John Kessler (04:54):
My guess is never.
I'm trying to think, I've been a— like, I felt like I became a
real Atlantan after about 10years. I still don't feel like a
real Chicago. And I don't know,do you are you a real Chicagoan?
I can't tell.
Amy Cavanaugh (05:09):
I've been here 15 years, and I don't think so. I
feel like it's one of theseplaces you have to grow up here
to truly be a Chicagoan. I don'tknow.
John Kessler (05:19):
I mean, I'm learning. I'm saying like, you
know, I'll call it Jewel now,not Jewel-Osco, and I get nods
of approval. So.
Amy Cavanaugh (05:27):
Every time I walk to get a tavern-style pizza and
a bottle of soda on a Fridaynight, that's when I feel like
I'm a real Chicagoan. So we dida big Italian beef feature last
fall, and we were thinkingabout, you know, what are some
other classic Chicago foods thatwe should feature? And
giardiniera seems an obviousone. So we thought about, you
(05:50):
know, all the different facetsof it. We love, the version that
Sarah Grueneberg makes atMonteverde. She puts it on her
smoked fish dip, which we bothlove. And yes, and that one is
so good, we named that one ofour best dishes in the city back
in 2023 and so when I knew wewanted a recipe, she was my
(06:11):
first choice, and she said, Yes,so we have a recipe from her,
and we also tapped chefs aroundtown to get their tips for the
best ways to make it. I thinkwhat's cool about giardiniera is
that there is no one singlerecipe, and so you can really
take it and run with it and makeit your own. And every chef
makes it differently and so andthey use it differently too, as
(06:34):
you know, we kind of saw in the"Nine Best Ways to Experience
Giardiniera", which is kind ofour anchor feature here. So we
both contributed some some picksto this nine best ways list, you
wrote about the longanisa andgiardiniera pizza, at Novel
Pizza. Why is that a greatgiardiniera experience?
John Kessler (06:50):
Because the flavor is just so spot on. It is like
that mixture of sweetness,porky, oily goodness and hot,
spicy pickle business that justlike, Wow, I love it. And it's
(07:11):
so, like, perfectly calibrated.
So I think about that pizza veryfrequently, and I will tell
anybody who's listening that thetrick is go in the middle of the
afternoon when it's not busy,get a pizza, wolf down three
pieces while you're there afterit comes out, and then bring the
(07:31):
rest home, and you will be ahappy person.
Amy Cavanaugh (07:32):
That sounds perfect. You also wrote about a
dish from Meat Moot, whichremains one of my favorite
restaurant names in town. Tellme about this one.
John Kessler (07:41):
So Meat Moot is this like multinational chain
restaurant with its headquartersin Turkey, and they make Halal
smoked meat in these you know,this bank of smokers, when you
walk in, it's different kinds ofcuts of beef and lamb. It is
absolutely delicious, you know,just fall-apart, tender,
(08:05):
delicious smoked meat that comeswith a zillion different kinds
of sauce and seasonings and sidedishes. You pay for the meat by
the pound and everything else isas much as you want. So when it
comes to the table, they kind oflocalize it here with a nice big
pile of spicy giardiniera. Andthey also serve it with honey,
(08:27):
which is traditional. You caneven have the honey drizzled all
over the meat after they pull itout of the smoker. But it's that
same thing. It's a sweetness thehot, spicy giardiniera, and that
super rich, fatty meat isheaven.
Amy Cavanaugh (08:41):
Oh, that sounds incredible. I wrote a couple of
these as well. And one of them,of course, is the Italian beef
from Johnnie's. And, you know, Ithink that giardiniera's best
use is for cutting through allthe beefy, fatty dishes. And so,
you know, a hot Italian beef atJohnnie's is a classic. But I
also wrote about the giardinieraaioli at El Che Steakhouse,
(09:03):
which I actually first had on aquail dish. They had a grilled
quail that I was really obsessedwith, and it was like this, the
sauce formed the base of thedish. They don't, it's, it's
like the giardiniera aioli. Sothey use the oil leftover from
J.P. Graziano giardiniera, addtheir own pickled cauliflower,
blend it up, and it's really,really good. And so they always
(09:27):
have a quail, but they change ita lot, and they no longer offer
that quail version, but they usethat giardiniera aioli for their
Italian beef empanadas, and it'sreally good, really tasty.
John Kessler (09:38):
That sounds amazing, and then didn't you
also write about the TrippingBilly giardiniera Salsa?
Amy Cavanaugh (09:45):
I did. He does it with Caruso's, which we'll talk
about later as well. And yeah,he is, you know, the king of
pop-ups, and so he created thisgiardiniera salsa, and it's
really good. It's. I love howit's, you know, it seems silly
to say, but like, thegiardiniera chunks can be, like,
too big if you want to use themon something, like in a dish or
(10:07):
something. So I like how it's,there's a little chunk to it,
but it's more blended. And so itlike, works seamlessly on, like
a breakfast taco or, you know,on nachos or something like that
too. So that's really tasty.
John Kessler (10:19):
Oh, that sounds great. What are some of the
other ones that other writerswrote about?
Amy Cavanaugh (10:24):
Yeah, so Maggie Hennessy wrote about the
giardiniera cream cheese atMindy's Bakery, which,
giardiniera cream cheese soundsabsolutely fabulous, and Mindy's
bagels are, as we know, some ofthe best in town. Cate Huguelet
wrote about the giardinierafocaccia at Zeitlin's
Delicatessen, which I'm reallyexcited is opening a new shop in
(10:44):
Lincoln Park, so not too farfrom me, which is great. And so
they like bake the giardinierainto the focaccia, but then they
also use it on a like as thebread for a turkey sandwich at
the From Here On food hall,which is really cool. But I have
to say that the one dish thatpeople wrote about that I
haven't had that I that I'mlike, dying to go try, is cheese
(11:05):
fries with giardiniera. That's aTitus Ruscitti pick. And I love
cheese fries. And he talkedabout how the hot cheese and the
hot fries with the coolgiardiniera is this just like,
unbelievable combination. Andso, you know, you can certainly
get them elsewhere at you know,I would think most hot dog
stands that sell cheese frieswill have some giardiniera they
(11:26):
can toss on for you. But he'sparticularly a fan of the one at
Little Island in Evanston. Yeah,I had never heard of it, but
they use Merkts cheddar, which,you know, is the best cheese fry
cheese.
John Kessler (11:39):
That sounds like maybe I need to get my bike out
when the weather's nice, andbike up to Evanston and then
reward myself with a big pile ofthat.
Amy Cavanaugh (11:48):
Yes, that sounds like a good summer activity.
Another big part of this featurewas your taste test, which
really had some unexpectedresults. How—
John Kessler (12:07):
my god—
Amy Cavanaugh (12:08):
Walk me through it? How did you do this?
John Kessler (12:11):
So it was a blind taste test. So what we did is we
got a tavern-style pizza andjust put some giardiniera on it,
and I was working with somefolks who were filming it, and
they, you know, mixed things up.
They knew what was what, andthey brought them to me. And I
will tell you, my pickssurprised me. I was not
(12:34):
expecting to like what I likedand not like what I didn't like,
which is why it's a good idea togo blind on this. So when we sat
down to do the taste test, I hada rubric that I looked at, and I
judged the giardiniera on abunch of different criteria. One
(12:59):
was, how spicy was it? Becausethere was, like a real broad mix
there. There was, you know, onefrom face melting to, I could
put Sriracha in it to, you know,give a little more something
going on. I looked at how crispthe vegetables were and how much
of a variety of vegetables therewere. You know, I like seeing
nice little chunks of celery andolive and red pepper, and some
(13:23):
of them have different kinds ofspicy pepper, and I thought the
variety made it moreinteresting. And then I tasted
the oil, because, truth be told,some of the oil seemed a little
off to me.
Amy Cavanaugh (13:39):
You tasted seven, but let's, let's do three, two,
one. What was in third?
John Kessler (13:44):
So third for me was Mauro's, which is a, you
know, much loved local brand.
And I thought it was very, verygood. It was kind of one of the
more complex ones. There waslots of red bell pepper and
olive and other nice things init. And it was just a nice,
broad, pretty spicy flavor. Ishould also add that we just did
(14:11):
the hot giardiniera, right? Youknow, go big or go home, right?
And I thought it was just areally solid hot giardiniera.
No. 2 is called ChicagoJohnny's. Have you seen that in
shops?
Amy Cavanaugh (14:23):
I have seen it, but I've never tried it.
John Kessler (14:26):
It's a little fancy. It's a brand that is made
with olive oil instead of, youknow, expeller pressed canola
oil, like everyone else's is. Soit's a little different color.
That oil is, like, slurpablestuff. It is delicious. It's
very hot. It's not the mostinteresting mix of vegetables or
(14:49):
the crispest texture, but it isjust, it's like the way the fat
carries the flavor in that andto put that on top of something,
that is, you know, just sort oflet that flavor seep in, is
great. So I, I'm a new fan, andI keep it at home now.
Amy Cavanaugh (15:09):
Oh yeah, that one sounds great. I know you
mentioned just like, dippingbread in there. And I was like,
that sounds like a really niceway to, you know, something to
snack on while you make dinner.
John Kessler (15:17):
Right? We should, like, dip some of that
giardiniera bread, thatgiardiniera focaccia, dip it in
that oil and just, you know, letyour mind explode.
Amy Cavanaugh (15:25):
You've got something there, I think.
John Kessler (15:27):
So, right? So my No. 1, big surprise! It was like
one of the cheapest ones wetried, one of the most, easiest
to get. The one you see in allthe supermarkets. It's
Orlando's. I loved it. Thevegetables were crisp. The spice
was great. And the thing Ireally loved about it is it was
vinegary, you know, it wasn'tjust so hot or so oily that
(15:50):
that's all you tasted. You gotthat, like, super bright, acidic
vinegar thing going on. And soit's the one I kind of, you
know, had in back in myrefrigerator, because it was,
you know, what was available toJewel. And I'm glad I have it.
Amy Cavanaugh (16:05):
Yeah, you know, I have mostly been a J.P. Graziano
enjoyer, but I'm gonna have totry this Orlando. I mean, it is
the cheapest. So that's, youknow, that's a surprising pick,
really exciting. So I know therewas one you didn't quite enjoy,.
John Kessler (16:22):
Yeah, which was a surprise. It was Caruso, which I
know is like the giardinierathat everyone says is one of the
best. I picked up a jar of it atAgora Market, and to my taste,
it seemed like the oil wasrancid. And so I thought maybe
it was a bad batch. So I wentback to Agora Market, talked to
(16:44):
them about it. They tasted acouple. They thought it tasted
fine. I got another jar. And itwasn't really rancid so much,
but I just thought the oil hadthis, like this, sort of, I
don't know, weird old paperytaste to it. And, yeah, and then
I went and got Caruso from acompletely different source, and
(17:07):
I felt the same thing. So, butcould've all been from a, you
know, a batch that went off alittle bit. I mean, you know,
oil, you know, they are packedin clear glass jars, and it's,
you know, exposure to sunlightcan give oil off flavors. So,
you know, I'm definitely willingto give another try, but the
three that I tried just didn'tdo it for me.
Amy Cavanaugh (17:35):
John, what's the best thing you ate lately?
John Kessler (17:38):
So I met a friend from out of town who wanted to
have a real Chicago diningexperience. We went to Indienne,
the tasting menu Indianrestaurant, Michelin one star.
And there was one dish therecalled scallop xec xec, with a
Goan-style xec xec curry. It wasjust a beautiful scallop that
(18:01):
had been seared, served withsome Kaluga caviar and a corn
sauce. And it was just likeslurp, slurp, slurp. It was
great. How about you?
Amy Cavanaugh (18:10):
Sounds great. I went to the new Zarella, which
is the Boka restaurant from LeeWolen and Chris Pandel. It was
super fun. That place is reallyresonating. While we were
waiting for our table, therewere, like, multiple people
walking in trying to get seatsand walking out because they
couldn't get bar seats. So it'stotally taken off. A lot of
(18:30):
things to like here. I reallylike the artisan-style crust,
but my favorite was thetavern-style pizza with the
spicy vodka sauce. Really goodtavern style like, I think it
has to be in the conversationamong this, like new wave of
great tavern styles likePizz'amici and Middle Brow. I
like what's happening here. I'mreally here for these new tavern
(18:52):
style takes. So tavern-stylevodka sauce is really a pick.
John Kessler (18:56):
That sounds great.
And I kind of want a, you know,a spicy vodka sauce martini now.
Amy Cavanaugh (19:01):
I did have a pepperoncini martini with it.
John Kessler (19:03):
Oh yeah? How was it?
Amy Cavanaugh (19:04):
It was pretty good. It was less — I was
worried it was going to be alittle intense for me, but it
was not so.
John Kessler (19:10):
Okay.
Amy Cavanaugh (19:11):
I've been trying dirty martinis around town, I
feel like I'm gonna have to dosomething on those soon.
Thanks for joining us for thisepisode of Dish From Chicago
Magazine. Your hosts are diningeditor Amy Cavanaugh and critic
John Kessler, editing by SarahSteimer and music by Bill
(19:32):
Harris. You can find us onlineat Chicagomag.com Please be sure
to follow, rate, and review uswherever you get your podcasts.
We'll see you next time you.
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