In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a raw, unscripted conversation on the future of psychedelic therapy, the dangers of hype, and the deeply personal reasons behind his decades-long mission.
We go deep into:
- Why MDMA was criminalized and how Doblin outmaneuvered the DEA
- The hard lessons from MAPS' FDA rejection and what's next
- Parenting and psychedelics: how both Rick and 3L1T3 approach education with their kids
- The trauma epidemic—why it’s bigger than war, abuse, or addiction
- How psychedelics could help shift collective consciousness in an age of collapse
- Burning Man, the Zendo Project, and building a new kind of community
Doblin shares stories of his first psychedelic trips, his rebellious roots, and his vision for a future where safe, supported altered states are a human right, not a privilege. This isn’t just policy talk, it’s soul talk.
👉 If you’re neurodivergent, psychedelic-curious, or just fed up with the way things are—this one’s for you.
🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎟️ Learn more about Psychedelic Science 2025: maps.org
🔬 Psychedelic Science 25 at https://www.psychedelicscience.org
Thank you to our Visionary Collaborators on Patreon!
Thank you to Flintwick for the music!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Divergent States and MAPS
02:47 Rick Doblin's Journey and the Founding of MAPS
10:03 The Messianic Idea and Psychedelics
18:54 Psychedelics as Tools for Healing
19:00 Educating the Next Generation about Psychedelics
25:00 The Role of Psychedelics in Addressing Global Trauma
30:09 Psychedelics and the Future of Humanity
33:31 Revitalizing Spirituality and Cultural Contexts
34:45 Psychedelics and Responsible Use
36:11 Modern Rites of Passage through Music
37:57 Harm Reduction and Support at Festivals
39:19 Psychedelic Science 2025 Conference
41:35 Community and Collaboration in Psychedelic Research
43:42 Reflections on Policy and Progress
45:42 Navigating Politics and Science
49:35 Globalizing Access to Psychedelic Therapies
52:42 The Importance of Divergent Perspectives
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Special Thanks to our Macrodosers and Heroic Dosers on Patreon, Super D and Lucy!
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