June 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Jason Edwards welcomes back Jared Barton, CRNA, to discuss the Dave Ramsey baby steps program and how it transformed his financial life and mindset about money.
• Jared discovered Dave Ramsey while working in the steel industry making $38,000 annually in the late 1990s
• Tracking every expense gave Jared an immediate $500 monthly "raise" without changing his income
• The debt snowball method (paying smallest debts first) provides psychological wins that help maintain momentum
• Financial discipline doesn't necessarily reduce quality of life or happiness
• Research shows purchases provide only temporary happiness boosts before returning to baseline
• Current housing challenges can be overcome through starting with modest properties and building equity gradually
• DIY skills significantly reduce home maintenance costs and build pride in ownership
• The final baby step focuses on wealth building to enable generous giving to others
• Financial freedom isn't about deprivation but about intentionality and respecting your future self
Take control of your financial future today by tracking your expenses, building an emergency fund, and taking the first steps toward debt freedom.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Doc Discussions.
This is Jason Edwards and I'mhere with my friend, jared
Barton.
Jared was with us on a previousepisode.
He's a CRNA or a nurseanesthetist, and after the
episode we got to talking aboutthe Dave Ramsey baby steps
program and how that had apositive impact on them and I
(00:20):
thought you know, one ofgrandma's golden rules is don't
talk about money, politics orreligion, and so I think if we
have to break one of those rules, this is probably the best one
to break.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
doing Jared.
I'm great, I'm great.
Thank you, jason, for having meback.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You bet buddy and so tell me where you were in life
when you kind of came acrossthis program.
Were you out of nursing schoolor where were you at?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I had just changed jobs and had gotten in the steel
industry this was many, manyyears ago, steelworking,
steelworker.
So I was in a steel processingcenter how about that?
And somebody had mentioned DaveRamsey and how it had just
(01:06):
changed their life and I hadnever heard of the guy, didn't
know anything about the man,yeah.
And so I did a little researchand he had.
He was.
He was pretty new as far ashaving the audio collection,
that he had a book, but he alsohad it on an audio CD set and I
got, I bought one and it was itwasn't CD set and I bought one
(01:26):
and it was at FinancialUniversity.
It was the one before that.
I can't remember the Total MoneyMakeover is what it was.
It was this first one that cameout.
It was technically a second onebecause before that they did
the envelope system, if you'refamiliar with that.
I've heard of it.
Yeah, they got rid of that,thank God, because I never could
have done that.
I've heard of it.
Yeah, they got rid of that,thank God, because that was I
couldn't.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I never could have done that.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But what it was basically the way it started was
is I did the audio because Idid not want to read the book,
because I was afraid I wouldn't.
Yeah, Financial stuff is justnot that exciting, right?
Exactly so I got the audioseries and was and listened to
it, and I did, I just jumpedright into it.
I took and I've always beenpretty handy with Excel, so I
(02:11):
went on my computer and mademyself an Excel spreadsheet of
everything that I spent my moneyon, Because that was the big
thing is you got to write downpen to paper and write down
every expense.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Now can I ask you and you can say no, roughly how
much were you making working ona steel plant?
I was making $38,000 a year,$38,000.
And what year was that roughlyLate?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
90s.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So $38,000 in the late 90s is not a bad salary.
It's not flush with cash, butit's definitely solidly middle
class.
I was fine.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I was fine.
I had a little house.
I had my first house.
I mean, I was young, so firsthome.
I had a degree in collegealready and I wasn't a dock
worker.
I was a management Gotcha.
I wasn't a.
You know, I wasn't a dockworker, or I was.
I was a management Gotcha.
You know the, the, the, thepeople on the floor were making
you know around, you know eightto $10 an hour at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And that's probably about what a school teacher made
back then, roughly, that'scorrect, and so so you started
off with this plan and and hissystem evolved into this baby
steps plan.
But the first step is to save athousand dollars, correct?
And so you do that, and thenyou start working through the
(03:32):
other steps.
It's payoff.
All debt was number two.
How did that go for you?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, can I back up?
I'll tell you one quick thingis, is I I wasn't completely
100%.
Is I wasn't completely 100%?
I'd say sold on the idea atfirst, but when I did actually
do, because there for a couplemonths I just kind of did the, I
guess, like everybody you know,it's like my power bill is
(03:58):
about you know 100 andsomething-ish, and so I never
did.
But then when I actually putthe pen to paper like he
stresses, stresses like, if youwould just listen to what he
says.
Yeah, and actually did that.
I actually gave myself a hugeraise in pay because I was
blowing money.
You know, stop by the gasstation get a coke, get some
chips, you know right, you know,yeah, stop get a hamburger on
(04:21):
the way home, you know.
And you don't realize how muchthat adds up.
And, yeah, even on a modestsalary, I believe when I did put
the pen to paper, I gave myselfabout a five hundred dollar a
month raise and pay.
That's crazy, especially backthen 38 grand and and and you're
talking not doing withoutanything, just not not just
wildly blowing money you know,and were you happier, was your
(04:43):
life better or worse.
No Right, it made no difference,absolutely not.
If you look at the two metricsof length of life and quality of
life, it makes no differenceand you're saving 500 bucks a
month Exactly, and then and then, after you get cause that's
where you get, that's where youhave to start because you gotta
have good, you gotta have reallygood data going into this,
because you know they saygarbage in, garbage out, so and
(05:05):
you can't, you got to do it.
Now the one thing I will say isI did not do it like to the
dollar.
I got a bunch of my power billsper se let's say it was
electric power bill.
Then what I would do is Ilooked and over the course of so
many months it was about $110.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, so you weren't.
You weren't shooting from thehip, but you didn't have a
sniper rifle either.
You were just kind of somewherein between.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Exactly.
And so for every single bill,every single instance where
money was leaving my hands, Ihad it almost identical to the
bill.
But I wasn't doing it on amonth to month basis, except for
what I did was I did.
A column of my bills was set onmy sheet where I had what they
(05:51):
run normally, and then anothercolumn I did, and they were all
actual.
So if I said my power bill is110 and it came in at 108, then
at the end you can self-tally it.
You're a big nerd like me andknow how to use Excel.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, excel's great, by the way, so you can put a
delta in there and it shows youthe $2.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I have all different lines, subtracting, adding,
putting all this for me.
And that way, when you get tothe end, then you start seeing
it.
It'll tell you whether you'rein deficit or in the positive,
You're in the green or in thered, you know, and and based on
that, you in the end of themonth it can't be in the
negative Gotcha.
So you've, you've got to.
Really, if you're, if you don'tstart out real smart, you're
(06:32):
going to end up really dumb atthe end of the month.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Cause you're going to be broke Now I had lots of debt
.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I had college debt.
I had random, stupid creditcard debt.
You had credit card debt.
I had yeah, I put some of mycollege on my credit card, so I
had thousands and thousands ofdollars.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And that's high interest?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Oh, of course it's like loan sharks coming after me
, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you know.
So I did a little bit ofresearch on credit card debt.
It's currently at like $1.3trillion nationally.
It's about 47% of people havecredit card debt and on average
it's about a seven grand bill.
So credit card debt's a realissue in this world.
And so how did you go aboutpaying off the debt?
Because a mathematician wouldsay find the highest interest
(07:21):
debt and pay that off first,which is called the debt
avalanche, and then the debtsnowball is different.
It's find the debt that is thelowest dollar amount and pay
that off first and you know,initially a smart person would
say that's dumb, you should paythe highest interest rate off.
But the people who understandhow humans work realize that
(07:45):
it's actually better to pay thelowest off first, because then
you get some positive feedbackand it makes you stick with the
program right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So yeah, like you said, the very first step is get
a thousand dollars for anemergency fund.
That way, if something breaks,something cracks, something goes
wrong, you can, you can pay forit.
You don't have to stop, you canjust continue on.
You pay for it, you don't haveto stop, you can just continue
on, you pay for that, getwhatever, because $1,000 will
fix most any emergency.
God forbid, you know somethingmajor.
But if you're talking about,you know your X breaks, your
(08:14):
fridge breaks, you know your cargets a flat tire, $1,000 is
covered and then you fully fundthat and you just keep on
trucking with it.
But yeah, then you start payingoff of the debt.
That's maybe step two, did you?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
do the debt snowball where you pick the lowest dollar
amount.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So you listened to them and you stuck with the
program.
I did because I wanted to startwith the highest debt dollar
amount.
But it would have taken meyears and I think I would have
lost some.
But it would have taken meyears and I think I would have
lost some.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And so they've done research since this and proven
that actually, picking the debtwith just the lowest amount, the
fastest one, you'll pay off,and you're making the minimal
interest, the minimal paymentson the other ones, correct, and
you throw everything towards thelowest dollar amount, not the
highest percentage that you'repaying.
As far as interest Right, anddata has shown.
As far as interest Right, andand data has shown that that
(09:08):
works better Right and, so andand and, mathematically you're
actually not that much worse offeither if you did the other
perfectly and it's justsomething it really does.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's so gratifying when you get to pay one off.
Yeah, you know, you're, you're,you're in, you're still in debt
, but you're in debt minus one,yeah, and you get this almost
just this excitement of thisworks.
I can do this, you know.
And when you pay off that firstdebt and you start on the next
debt, you have a little bit moremoney to throw at that second
debt.
So, even though that amount islarger now, you have more money
(09:48):
to throw at that debt to to payit off sooner.
So you have some psychologicalmomentum and some financial
momentum, yeah, and so that'sthat's very helpful as well.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then I had some people I know who I went to high
school with, who who did thisand and it was it was just in a
few years, but they paid off.
It was something crazy and theyhad, I would say, two kind of
normalist jobs, you know nothing, crazy, um, and I think they I
think one of them, the guy, thehusband, may have built a spec
(10:18):
home or two in the summers, sohe was doing some side gigs, but
it was some.
It was in the 200, like 200 andsomething thousand and I think
they were both like uh, likesolid jobs, like school teachers
, but not crazy right and um,and a lot of people say and you
know you're eating?
He always says eat rice.
And you know you're notspending much, you're not going
(10:40):
out to eat.
Your friends are criticizingyou, saying you're weird.
Did you experience any of that?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
no, I didn't.
Okay, good, I um, uh, I Ididn't.
I've never been really thatthat big on.
You know, by the time I'dstarted this too, I was a little
bit.
I wasn't, you know, in my teensor, uh, you know, in college
anymore.
So I was, I was older, when Iold, but I wasn't still in that
that, you know, go to the clubs,it clubs and blow body type
(11:06):
phase, so not that big of aparty or drinker, that type of
deal, so that wasn't a big thing.
I never really went out tolavish restaurants that type of
deal, always driven cars thatrun.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So it wasn't a giant deviation from your norm for a
norm and I think people think,oh, going down this path and
actually kind of getting somemore discipline in my life
financially is going to behorrible.
I'm not going to go out to, butI think people actually would
probably look back on it and saythat was kind of a cool time in
life.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think so too, because you're I mean I'm
actually I'm off next week andI'm taking a staycation because
I want to.
Yeah, I mean I could gosomewhere and do something if I
wanted to, but I need to, I needthere's things I need to do at
the house, yeah, so you know,that's just part of getting
older, you know, and if you justkind of get that mindset to
where you know this year we'retaking two really nice
(12:01):
staycations, you know to reallynice staycations.
You know, and do something foryourself or something for your
house, something that you knowthat you need to do or want to
do, then it makes it fun as welland at the same time, you're
just banking that money.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Instead of blowing money on a big, big, expensive
vacation, instead of blowingmoney that you can put towards
your debt.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So you know he always has all these sayings you know,
live what is it?
Live like nobody else today soyou can live like nobody else
tomorrow.
Be frugal right now and thenyou don't have to be later.
And being frugal doesn't meanbeing boring, it doesn't mean
the rice and beans sounds awful,and I didn't do that for sure I
(12:40):
wasn't eating rice and beans.
I wasn't eating caviar andlobster either, but all with a
reason.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
You know the it's, and people may find this hard to
believe it's it's actually hardto spend money on things that
actually make your life betterin the long run.
And so if you had and this islike research there's, there's
(13:07):
research, you know, on this Ifyou had like two twin brothers
and one of them broke their legone day and the other one won
the lottery the other day andthe day before, you know on this
If you had like two twinbrothers and one of them broke
their leg one day and the otherone won the lottery the other
day and the day before you know,they'd both say they're seven
out of 10 happy.
Two years later, they will bothbe seven out of 10 happy again.
You know, it's, it's and it'sbecause, or or the lottery
(13:27):
stories you've heard that ortheir life's way worse.
But you tend to just kind of goin the short term, right, if
expectations are exceeded in ashort-term scenario, then you're
happy for the moment until youkind of re-equilibrate.
Like, if you get a new car,it's fun for three months or six
months and then it's just yourcar again, but you spend a bunch
of money and for five years youhave that note.
(13:48):
Yeah, you know a bunch of money, and for five years you have
that note.
Yeah, you know um, and andactually um, kind of.
The one of the things that'skind of the opposite is that
I've in my mind is going onvacation, um, which I'm not a
huge fan of vacation personallyum, because it feels like you're
just in my mind blowing moneyand you don't have anything
(14:09):
tangible.
But I actually think going onvacation, you are at least left
with like some memories, right,and in a way that may even be
worth more than buying a thing,right, you know that um.
So even though it seemsintangible, it kind of lasts
longer it does, and and again.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
You know you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know, travel halfway around the world for
sure go to nashville, you know,go to kansas city, I mean you
can have, you don't have totravel halfway around the world.
For sure, go to Nashville, goto Kansas City, I mean you're
going to have a good time.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I've been to over half of the states in the US and
I'd love to see the rest ofthem.
Yeah, and that does not take alot of money.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So my kids, I've never taken them to Disney World
, I've taken them to SilverDollar City.
They're 10 out of 10, happy.
They're not going to get to 11.
You know this is not right.
This is not Spinal Tap.
You know that's a reference toan amplifier in the movie.
But I mean you know 10 out of10, you're maximal happy.
I'm not throwing shade at peoplewho take their kids to, you
(15:08):
know, disney World, but I meanto me it's it's just a bunch of
extra money and like they'regoing to be happy with what they
got.
But I think you know kind ofknowing that and knowing that
when you, you can, if you want,you can keep spending money
trying to chase this high andkeep momentarily being happy,
(15:29):
but it puts you in a badposition.
You know, financially, and whenyou, when you realize that, you
know kind of Eastern philosophy, that you know if you want to
be happy, think about happythoughts.
You know it's, it's in yourbrain, it's not.
Yeah, you know, if you want tofeel accomplished, you know,
don't go buy a Rolex, just thinkabout your accomplishments,
(15:50):
right, and subvert it.
But you just don't want to getinto a position and sometimes
you can't help it, but you don'twant to get into a position
where you're financiallyleveraged and you're kind of up
against the wall Because there'sno stress like financial stress
.
I mean, I've seen patients showup in the ER having panic
attacks and you just don't wantto live that way if you can
(16:11):
avoid it and some people havebad breaks in life, no doubt
about it.
I mean I definitely acknowledgethat.
But you want to do everythingyou can to prepare yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So if you do have a bad break, you're at least
secure in that capacity and Idon't know about you, but when I
see somebody, you know I'mtalking about you.
I don't know what you drive.
I don't know what you drive,but when somebody passes me in
the brand new super duper BMWXXX you know, whatever, there's
zero envy for me.
I look at that and the firstthing I think is man, you're
broke.
(16:41):
You are more than likely youare broke.
You're fixing to go to a houseyou can't afford.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You're going to park your car in the garage of your
house.
You can't afford.
It's a weird thing becauseyou're, you're um, if you wanted
to be, you can kind of cut outthe middleman, right?
If you wanted to think you'rerich, you could.
At least you can look at themoney that you saved, or you can
spend all that money.
Not be rich and let somebodyelse tell you you're rich right
but or you could just subvertthe process and look at your
account and be like you know,know what.
I've been disciplined.
I can see in my account.
(17:18):
There's money there, whetherit's your retirement account or
whatever, and people can spendtheir money on whatever they
want.
I don't want to pass judgment,necessarily, but you don't want
to get on this hedonic treadmillwhere you keep buying something
else, something else, somethingelse yeah, keeping up with the
Joneses.
You don't have to be like ohman Walmart, what was him?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Remember?
He was known for driving thistruck.
Oh, sam Walton.
Yeah, he barely drove.
Yeah, an old Chevy truck.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
But there's something you kind of love about that
story.
You know Sam Walton, he's worth$80 billion.
Story.
You know sam walton, he's worth80 billion and overall he's got
a truck, an old chippy truck,and there's something that's
kind of great about that andit's like the guy had some inner
peace.
You know um and so um, and soyou stuck with the program I did
.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have been, I'm still on the program.
Yeah, it's.
It's just basically justchanged my, my way of thoughts,
my thinking process, how I actand react towards money.
Yeah, because once you getdebt-free, there's no feeling
like it and in fact you neverwill.
(18:25):
It doesn't matter whether youmake minimum wage or six figures
.
You'll never really know yourincome if you have all this debt
.
Yeah, because you have what youmake minus what the government
takes and allows you to keep,and then after that it's what
all you've spent on your stuff.
Yeah, and minus that is whatyou've now got to live on until
(18:48):
the next either two weeks orweek or month or what have you.
Yeah, and so you never reallyrealize your income and you
won't.
You won't until you, until youget done paying for your things.
Yeah, you know, and it's, it's.
I always think.
You know like, uh, you knowyour, your grandparents, you
know like, was talking about.
You know if you couldn't affordit, you don't buy it, you can't
(19:10):
.
You know there was no creditcards and if you went to the
bank, it was, it was a handshake.
You know those type of days aregone.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, and, and I think sometimes people work hard
.
You know, and, and you think,and you see, every social media
has made this worse.
You know, you see your neighborwith this fancy thing or that
and you feel like, well, Ideserve that, and it's, and it's
like you.
Your bank account will tell youif you deserve it, but it's not
going to make you happier.
It will not in the long run.
(19:38):
Momentarily you'll be happy,but then in the long run you're
going to be worse off for it.
And and it's, and it's, um, andI do think you know we were
social animals.
We compare ourselves to eachother for sure, and so and and
we're all nobody's perfect withthat.
I'm not, you're not.
You know we all fall prey tothat, but it is just good to
know that there's.
(19:59):
If you're looking for qualityof life in the long run, think
about your future self and andtry to try to have the
discipline and develop thehabits of being happy without
spending money, so you can havethat financial security.
I grew up and there's this guyI've known almost my whole life
(20:23):
and he had a below average jobas far as income.
It was an honest living.
He was a good person, but asfar as income it was below the
job.
Okay, as far as income it wasan honest living.
He was a good person.
But as far as income it wasbelow the median.
Um, but he didn't spend much.
Um, he always had.
If he bought a car it was usedUm he'd work on it, um you don't
have it for a long time.
(20:44):
I could probably name every carthis guy ever had, cause
there's only a few.
And he's in his 60s now and he'sgot a nice enough house, it's
paid for, he's got two cars andhe just lived a disciplined life
.
I mean, he just did not spendmore than he had and he's doing
(21:05):
fine for himself.
And I guess what I'd tell youngpeople is you know, it's super.
I think for the young peopleout there now it's really tough
for them.
I mean the, the, the amount youknow your rent payment is or
your house payment is as apercentage of your income, is
probably the worst it's been in50 years due to the inflation,
you know the last five years.
But you, you can becomefinancially independent, you can
(21:32):
become wealthy, but there's noshortcut.
It's boring and it's going totake a long time and it's hard
to suffer what you think issuffering today by not kind of
scratching that itch of buyingthe thing you got your eye on.
But it won't make you happierand you are going to be 65 at
(21:53):
some point and it's better tojust try to have the discipline
and develop good habits todayand for your future self.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I think the, the.
I think it's changed a lot toofrom like when, you know, I was
in my twenties.
You know, early thirties, the,the, the peer pressure is quite
different because wes, you know,early 30s, the peer pressure is
quite different because we,like you know, I didn't come
from the side of town that hadmoney.
So, you know, going to Europewas beyond.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That was only for rich people.
That's what you see on TV, yeah, so there was no, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Hey, you know, come over and look at my new $70,000
truck, or hey, we're justgetting back from Ireland.
There was none of that, so youdidn't have to.
It was a lot easier to keep upwith the Joneses.
You had a car that ran, thatlooked halfway dead seat, and
you kept it clean and you tookcare of it and that was pretty
much.
You want to keep it in my car.
(22:51):
I just washed it.
It's clean.
It looks real nice.
That was how you kept up withthe chances.
Yeah, you know your house wasnice.
You kept it clean.
It didn't stink.
You know it was.
You know you you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
You kept pictures online.
Yeah, you know.
If people see you wearing thesame outfit you know for three
different events, then they actlike something's wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And Facebook is like look at me, book, it's what it
is, show and tell.
Book it's it's, and there'spositives and negatives, but I
mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It kind of cultivates some of this behavior.
That's not good for you in thelong run.
You've got to be happy withyourself For sure, happy with
yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
That doesn't come easy.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Right, you don't read a book and it happens.
No, and just like about thewhole Dave Ramsey plan, is that
you didn't amount all this debtovernight.
You're not going to pay it offovernight.
It's like like a diet.
You know it was fun putting theweight on.
It's not fun taking it off.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Paying the debt off it's not fun either and there's
a lot of similarities, you know,with dieting too.
Um, being kind of more like anengineer and like actually
looking at the calories is theway to go, but not all of us,
you know, turn into an artistwhere we're like, oh, I'm
roughly about this and so yeah,for sure it's, but good things
(24:19):
they take time and they takediscipline and it's.
I think it's hard to replacethat feeling of having that
financial freedom.
I mean, nothing you could buywould ever make you that happy
or free.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I tell you for me personally, like as I was going
through the steps, it was evenjust more motivation, it was
more fun, it became fun, itbecame exciting, yeah, that I'm
fixing to hit another milestone.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
A couple of yeah for sure, like most people will
describe it as like no, that wasa good time in my life, you
know, going through that.
A couple statistics here tothrow out Worldwide to be the
top 1% of earners worldwide, inAmerica or not in America.
(25:12):
Worldwide, you got to make$65,000 to be the first
percentile worldwide.
And so, just to put things intoperspective, to be in the top
20% which different people willuse different numbers, but the
top 20% of considered upperclass or at least upper middle
(25:34):
class as a household, you make$160,000.
Okay, which is a lot of money,but but I think a lot of people
who fall into this category youknow if you're a what's 160, I'm
guessing is like a firefighterand a teacher with some years of
(25:55):
experience in a nice district,roughly A lot of times, I think,
because of all the stuff yousee out there, people making
that often probably don't feellike they're upper class.
Right, you know what I mean, andsome of it too, is perspective.
We live in this metro area.
This is all you see.
(26:16):
I'm not from a metro area, Idon't think you are either, and
so my view of the world is alittle bit broader maybe.
But I mean, I think withinflation and just the
comparison is, people in thisdemographic don't feel like
they're upper class.
People in this demographicdon't feel like they're upper
class and I think.
(26:39):
But when you compare yourselfto your friends and neighbors,
you don't know what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I mean their whole lifestyle may be leveraged.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
What are some parting thoughts you have about all
this Jared?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, one of the things also is is I look at
housing?
Housing is so expensive.
You know I grew Jared Um well,one.
One of the things also is is Ilook at housing?
Housing is so expensive.
You know, I grew up inBirmingham, alabama, and you
know you think it's kind of likeway everywhere.
But you know when and this waswhen I, when I was looking for a
house, way back, way back whenthe average house was about
$150,000 and you know there wasno way I could afford that.
(27:16):
So I bought a house.
My first house was $78,500.
And it needed a lot of work.
And I'm not a carpenter, but Ihad to learn how to become one.
I'm not a plumber orelectrician, but you bet I
learned how to be a plumber andelectrician because I could not
afford to pay these people tocome in and fix my stuff,
because they made way more thanI did my average.
(27:37):
I paid one plumber one time tocome out and fix a leaky sink.
When I bought my first house,I'd been there maybe a couple
months and he worked for about30 minutes and he took a week's
pay from me.
That's rough.
I said right then, and there youknow, I'm a plumber, I'm a
plumber.
I can learn it did not look likerocket science what he did back
(27:59):
there.
So if he can do it, I'm smartenough at least.
I can at least get near it, youknow, yeah, so I learned how to
do a lot of things, and so eventoday I have a real hard time
paying someone to do somethingthat I can do.
And a lot of people say, well,your time is worth something.
It's really not Because you'reinvesting in yourself or your
(28:20):
property or what have you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And it's another skill, another experience to go
through.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It broadens your and I actually I hate to say it, but
I kind of enjoy it.
I don't when I'm doing it.
You know I'm one of those guysthat you know leave me in the
basement and cover your earsbecause it might get colorful,
you know, because it never goes,because I don't do it all the
time.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I'm not a professional plumber or
something, so it never works outperfectly.
But how much pride do you havewhen you finish it?
When I finish it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I'm looking at it and I'm thinking that looks
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, you found your chest.
Even when I'm on the yard, I'mfeeling good about myself, you
know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
But Just the housing has gotten to be so much that I
hear.
It pains me to hear.
I just had a guy tell me thiswas just a couple months ago.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
He's probably mid-20s and he told me he and his wife.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
they just don't foresee in the future how they
can buy a house and I didn't sayanything.
But I thought you're going tohave to reevaluate what's
important to you, because if Ihad that same mentality then I
would have never bought my firsthouse.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah.
So the median home price now Ithink it's about $350,000.
And that's just median and then.
But one thing is, the medianhome size is a lot bigger than
it used to be too.
I mean, just go drive down inSouth city or or in C, homes
that were built in the fifties,um, or um, uh or earlier, and I
(29:42):
mean there's, there's smaller1200 square feet, you know type
of deal.
And so we're just kind of acustom to um live is what seems
normal is to now live in a.
I would say the average houseis probably over 2,000 square
feet.
I could be wrong, but it'ssignificantly larger than it was
in 1990.
And HOAs, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I mean, not only do you have to pay this exorbitant
price for this house, becauseit's got this brick sign in the
front that says something thatpeople recognize you know the
cove, or whatever it says, youknow and it's like, oh, I live
in the cove.
Well, now that you live in thecove and you have this house,
that's, you know, probably alittle bit it was a little tight
(30:30):
to get in, but now every monthyou've got this thing called
HOAs that you've got to pay in.
They're the people that it'slike still living kind of at
your parents' place.
They tell you what color youcan paint your house, if you can
have a car outside or not, whattime you need to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I mean, all these things, they don't feel free.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Right, right, and so I find that, if you can do, this
is still America.
You can still do what you want.
It depends.
You've got to scale it back,though, because what you do is
like that house I bought, Iworked on it, worked on it I
mean, I was doing all that Icould do for that house, and
(31:10):
when I sold it, I made a prettynice little profit from it
rolled it into another house,got in that house, did a whole
lot of work on that house, youknow, sold it, rolled it into
another house, got in that house, did a whole lot of work on
that house, sold it, rolled itinto the third house, and you
keep doing that until that's howyou can get.
You can still buy that, say,$100,000 house, but by the time
you're in your third house,you're still.
(31:31):
You're paying $100,000, butyou're buying a $250,000 house.
Yeah, because you just keeprolling that equity into the
other homes.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For the young people out there,it's not going to come quick.
No, it's not fun and it's justbrick by brick, step by step.
But you might as well starttoday.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And the Dave Ramsey plan is a way to get you there.
I think faster Probably thebest thing going out there.
I think it's faster becauseyou're going to come to this one
way or the other.
I think You're going to have aone day.
You and your family is going tohave a sit-down, yeah, and it's
going to be like we've got todo something because what we're
doing is not working.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, the pesky shackles of reality always end
up winning, don't they Right?
Always end up winning, don'tthey Right.
All right, jared Well hey,buddy, I appreciate you and it's
always good talking to you.
Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Can I leave you one last?
Thing, yeah, please.
Number 10 on the I think it'sthe 107th of the plan is what I
think is the most exciting tolook forward to.
That's the one where you cangive.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, build wealth and give Right, and so you
donate to things that you thinkare important Church, maybe the
server you have.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Give her a hundred bucks.
Yeah, Haircut girl, she'stelling you a sad story.
A hundred bucks, you give her ahundred bucks.
You're not out that much.
Yeah, you just changed her week, her month.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And the feeling you get from that is longer lasting
than the feeling you're going toget from buying that new pair
of shoes.
And so if your goal is tooptimize your length of life and
quality of life, your return oninvestments typically better
with giving.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And by that point you're already to the last baby
step, so everything's paid for.
You've got your next day,you're pretty much should be set
and you're making a positivedifference in this world, and
now you can go out and you canhelp others.
Yeah, and that's the only thingit was.
Just you know, once you get tothe very end, it still continues
.
Yeah, because now you have achance to change someone else's
(33:30):
life and be positive.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And you sympathize with people who are kind of in
the same position.
You were a long time ago.
We've all been down the sameroad.
You bet Most of us.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean for sure.
Yeah, everybody's going to havetough times and we're all in
this world together, right, andwe got to try to take care of
each other, but it really yougot to take care of yourself too
.
Right to right, and you'reyou're.
There's something called aMonte Carlo simulation and we
use it for radiationcalculations, but it's a Monte
(34:01):
Carlo.
Is that a roulette wheel?
Okay, and so it started offdoing multiple runs on a
roulette wheel, so you just itwould be like a thousand balls
in a row and seeing what numbersit landed on, and that's called
a run.
And it became a mathematicalway to simulate things.
And if you looked at your lifelike a monte carlo simulation,
like over the next 20 years,your life, there's there's a
(34:23):
thousand different use thatcould exist.
But if, if you're making movestoday that are going to help,
kind of any of those potentialuse, if you looked at your life
like a simulation, a lot ofthings could happen.
But you want to do things thatkind of, have some respect for
the future version of you,whatever that may be, and it
(34:43):
could be anything and and Ithink you know, having the
discipline to do that, findingmeaning in your life and purpose
.
I mean people will keep workingeven if they're totally
financially free, because theyfeel like they have obligations
to charities and obligations topeople or family or whatever,
and they feel good about that,their legacy.
(35:06):
I think in life it's good tohave purpose, it's good to be on
a mission, it's good to try tomake a positive difference in
this world and most people whowhat's the meaning of life,
that's what it is Find thingsyou think are important and try
to make them better.
Um and um.
You know you'll get all kindsof philosophies, but I think if
you put them into an AI andaveraged them out, it would be
(35:28):
something like that and it, it,I know it's, it's, it's
gratifying for me to give it's.
Probably the happiest momentsof the year are when you're, you
know somewhere and you have theopportunity to give a little
bit Right.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, Like you said, you got to help yourself first.
It's like they say on theairplane you always put the
oxygen on yourself.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, save yourself, because if you, start putting it
on others.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You're of no good to anyone.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And you know, another good kind of saying about life
is nobody's coming to save you,Right.
You've got to save yourself,exactly, and that's good news
and bad news, because I don'twant to be somebody else up to
somebody else, but the bad newsis I've got to do the work.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And hard living, hard choices, I think, have escaped
most people these days.
Yeah, a lot of the youth thatare coming up are not being told
no, are not doing without.
They don't understand doingwithout.
Doing without is like a timeoutfor 10 minutes with their
favorite game.
You know not that I can't, wecan't afford that game.
Yeah, you can't have that game,we won't get that game yeah,
(36:30):
it's a, it's a.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Hard people, uh, create good time.
You know, bad times create hardpeople.
Hard people create good times.
Good times create, create hardpeople.
Hard people create good times.
Good times create soft people.
And it feels like we're in thatphase of the cycle and you've
got to develop self-discipline.
In anything in life, we're notperfect.
(36:53):
Forgive yourself for sure forUm, for your weaknesses and your
past transgressions.
We all have them.
Just move forward and figureout.
You know how can you have somerespect for your future version
of yourself?
Exactly All right, buddy.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Hey, good seeing you Good talking to you as well.
It's always fun.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Thanks, chris for for um for your work here today.
And, Todd, as always, always.
And Kelly, we appreciateeverybody in the staff.
That's all for today.
Jared Barton, you're my man.
All right, Thank you.
Welcome to Doc Discussions.
This is Jason Edwards and I'mhere with my friend, jared
Barton.
Jared was with us on a previousepisode.
He's a CRNA or a nurseanesthetist, and after the
episode we got to talking aboutthe Dave Ramsey baby steps
program and how that had apositive impact on them and I
(00:20):
thought you know, one ofgrandma's golden rules is don't
talk about money, politics orreligion, and so I think if we
have to break one of those rules, this is probably the best one
to break.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
doing Jared.
I'm great, I'm great.
Thank you, jason, for having meback.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You bet buddy and so tell me where you were in life
when you kind of came acrossthis program.
Were you out of nursing schoolor where were you at?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I had just changed jobs and had gotten in the steel
industry this was many, manyyears ago, steelworking,
steelworker.
So I was in a steel processingcenter how about that?
And somebody had mentioned DaveRamsey and how it had just
(01:06):
changed their life and I hadnever heard of the guy, didn't
know anything about the man,yeah.
And so I did a little researchand he had.
He was.
He was pretty new as far ashaving the audio collection,
that he had a book, but he alsohad it on an audio CD set and I
got, I bought one and it was itwasn't CD set and I bought one
(01:26):
and it was at FinancialUniversity.
It was the one before that.
I can't remember the Total MoneyMakeover is what it was.
It was this first one that cameout.
It was technically a second onebecause before that they did
the envelope system, if you'refamiliar with that.
I've heard of it.
Yeah, they got rid of that,thank God, because I never could
have done that.
I've heard of it.
Yeah, they got rid of that,thank God, because that was I
couldn't.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I never could have done that.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But what it was basically the way it started was
is I did the audio because Idid not want to read the book,
because I was afraid I wouldn't.
Yeah, Financial stuff is justnot that exciting, right?
Exactly so I got the audioseries and was and listened to
it, and I did, I just jumpedright into it.
I took and I've always beenpretty handy with Excel, so I
(02:11):
went on my computer and mademyself an Excel spreadsheet of
everything that I spent my moneyon, Because that was the big
thing is you got to write downpen to paper and write down
every expense.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Now can I ask you and you can say no, roughly how
much were you making working ona steel plant?
I was making $38,000 a year,$38,000.
And what year was that roughlyLate?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
90s.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So $38,000 in the late 90s is not a bad salary.
It's not flush with cash, butit's definitely solidly middle
class.
I was fine.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I was fine.
I had a little house.
I had my first house.
I mean, I was young, so firsthome.
I had a degree in collegealready and I wasn't a dock
worker.
I was a management Gotcha.
I wasn't a.
You know, I wasn't a dockworker, or I was.
I was a management Gotcha.
You know the, the, the, thepeople on the floor were making
you know around, you know eightto $10 an hour at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And that's probably about what a school teacher made
back then, roughly, that'scorrect, and so so you started
off with this plan and and hissystem evolved into this baby
steps plan.
But the first step is to save athousand dollars, correct?
And so you do that, and thenyou start working through the
(03:32):
other steps.
It's payoff.
All debt was number two.
How did that go for you?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, can I back up?
I'll tell you one quick thingis, is I I wasn't completely
100%.
Is I wasn't completely 100%?
I'd say sold on the idea atfirst, but when I did actually
do, because there for a couplemonths I just kind of did the, I
guess, like everybody you know,it's like my power bill is
(03:58):
about you know 100 andsomething-ish, and so I never
did.
But then when I actually putthe pen to paper like he
stresses, stresses like, if youwould just listen to what he
says.
Yeah, and actually did that.
I actually gave myself a hugeraise in pay because I was
blowing money.
You know, stop by the gasstation get a coke, get some
chips, you know right, you know,yeah, stop get a hamburger on
(04:21):
the way home, you know.
And you don't realize how muchthat adds up.
And, yeah, even on a modestsalary, I believe when I did put
the pen to paper, I gave myselfabout a five hundred dollar a
month raise and pay.
That's crazy, especially backthen 38 grand and and and you're
talking not doing withoutanything, just not not just
wildly blowing money you know,and were you happier, was your
(04:43):
life better or worse.
No Right, it made no difference,absolutely not.
If you look at the two metricsof length of life and quality of
life, it makes no differenceand you're saving 500 bucks a
month Exactly, and then and then, after you get cause that's
where you get, that's where youhave to start because you gotta
have good, you gotta have reallygood data going into this,
because you know they saygarbage in, garbage out, so and
(05:05):
you can't, you got to do it.
Now the one thing I will say isI did not do it like to the
dollar.
I got a bunch of my power billsper se let's say it was
electric power bill.
Then what I would do is Ilooked and over the course of so
many months it was about $110.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, so you weren't.
You weren't shooting from thehip, but you didn't have a
sniper rifle either.
You were just kind of somewherein between.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Exactly.
And so for every single bill,every single instance where
money was leaving my hands, Ihad it almost identical to the
bill.
But I wasn't doing it on amonth to month basis, except for
what I did was I did.
A column of my bills was set onmy sheet where I had what they
(05:51):
run normally, and then anothercolumn I did, and they were all
actual.
So if I said my power bill is110 and it came in at 108, then
at the end you can self-tally it.
You're a big nerd like me andknow how to use Excel.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, excel's great, by the way, so you can put a
delta in there and it shows youthe $2.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I have all different lines, subtracting, adding,
putting all this for me.
And that way, when you get tothe end, then you start seeing
it.
It'll tell you whether you'rein deficit or in the positive,
You're in the green or in thered, you know, and and based on
that, you in the end of themonth it can't be in the
negative Gotcha.
So you've, you've got to.
Really, if you're, if you don'tstart out real smart, you're
(06:32):
going to end up really dumb atthe end of the month.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Cause you're going to be broke Now I had lots of debt
.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I had college debt.
I had random, stupid creditcard debt.
You had credit card debt.
I had yeah, I put some of mycollege on my credit card, so I
had thousands and thousands ofdollars.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And that's high interest?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Oh, of course it's like loan sharks coming after me
, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And you know.
So I did a little bit ofresearch on credit card debt.
It's currently at like $1.3trillion nationally.
It's about 47% of people havecredit card debt and on average
it's about a seven grand bill.
So credit card debt's a realissue in this world.
And so how did you go aboutpaying off the debt?
Because a mathematician wouldsay find the highest interest
(07:21):
debt and pay that off first,which is called the debt
avalanche, and then the debtsnowball is different.
It's find the debt that is thelowest dollar amount and pay
that off first and you know,initially a smart person would
say that's dumb, you should paythe highest interest rate off.
But the people who understandhow humans work realize that
(07:45):
it's actually better to pay thelowest off first, because then
you get some positive feedbackand it makes you stick with the
program right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
So yeah, like you said, the very first step is get
a thousand dollars for anemergency fund.
That way, if something breaks,something cracks, something goes
wrong, you can, you can pay forit.
You don't have to stop, you canjust continue on.
You pay for it, you don't haveto stop, you can just continue
on, you pay for that, getwhatever, because $1,000 will
fix most any emergency.
God forbid, you know somethingmajor.
But if you're talking about,you know your X breaks, your
(08:14):
fridge breaks, you know your cargets a flat tire, $1,000 is
covered and then you fully fundthat and you just keep on
trucking with it.
But yeah, then you start payingoff of the debt.
That's maybe step two, did you?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
do the debt snowball where you pick the lowest dollar
amount.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So you listened to them and you stuck with the
program.
I did because I wanted to startwith the highest debt dollar
amount.
But it would have taken meyears and I think I would have
lost some.
But it would have taken meyears and I think I would have
lost some.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And so they've done research since this and proven
that actually, picking the debtwith just the lowest amount, the
fastest one, you'll pay off,and you're making the minimal
interest, the minimal paymentson the other ones, correct, and
you throw everything towards thelowest dollar amount, not the
highest percentage that you'repaying.
As far as interest Right, anddata has shown.
As far as interest Right, andand data has shown that that
(09:08):
works better Right and, so andand and, mathematically you're
actually not that much worse offeither if you did the other
perfectly and it's justsomething it really does.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's so gratifying when you get to pay one off.
Yeah, you know, you're, you're,you're in, you're still in debt
, but you're in debt minus one,yeah, and you get this almost
just this excitement of thisworks.
I can do this, you know.
And when you pay off that firstdebt and you start on the next
debt, you have a little bit moremoney to throw at that second
debt.
So, even though that amount islarger now, you have more money
(09:48):
to throw at that debt to to payit off sooner.
So you have some psychologicalmomentum and some financial
momentum, yeah, and so that'sthat's very helpful as well.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And then I had some people I know who I went to high
school with, who who did thisand and it was it was just in a
few years, but they paid off.
It was something crazy and theyhad, I would say, two kind of
normalist jobs, you know nothing, crazy, um, and I think they I
think one of them, the guy, thehusband, may have built a spec
(10:18):
home or two in the summers, sohe was doing some side gigs, but
it was some.
It was in the 200, like 200 andsomething thousand and I think
they were both like uh, likesolid jobs, like school teachers
, but not crazy right and um,and a lot of people say and you
know you're eating?
He always says eat rice.
And you know you're notspending much, you're not going
(10:40):
out to eat.
Your friends are criticizingyou, saying you're weird.
Did you experience any of that?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
no, I didn't.
Okay, good, I um, uh, I Ididn't.
I've never been really thatthat big on.
You know, by the time I'dstarted this too, I was a little
bit.
I wasn't, you know, in my teensor, uh, you know, in college
anymore.
So I was, I was older, when Iold, but I wasn't still in that
that, you know, go to the clubs,it clubs and blow body type
(11:06):
phase, so not that big of aparty or drinker, that type of
deal, so that wasn't a big thing.
I never really went out tolavish restaurants that type of
deal, always driven cars thatrun.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So it wasn't a giant deviation from your norm for a
norm and I think people think,oh, going down this path and
actually kind of getting somemore discipline in my life
financially is going to behorrible.
I'm not going to go out to, butI think people actually would
probably look back on it and saythat was kind of a cool time in
life.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I think so too, because you're I mean I'm
actually I'm off next week andI'm taking a staycation because
I want to.
Yeah, I mean I could gosomewhere and do something if I
wanted to, but I need to, I needthere's things I need to do at
the house, yeah, so you know,that's just part of getting
older, you know, and if you justkind of get that mindset to
where you know this year we'retaking two really nice
(12:01):
staycations, you know to reallynice staycations.
You know, and do something foryourself or something for your
house, something that you knowthat you need to do or want to
do, then it makes it fun as welland at the same time, you're
just banking that money.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Instead of blowing money on a big, big, expensive
vacation, instead of blowingmoney that you can put towards
your debt.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So you know he always has all these sayings you know,
live what is it?
Live like nobody else today soyou can live like nobody else
tomorrow.
Be frugal right now and thenyou don't have to be later.
And being frugal doesn't meanbeing boring, it doesn't mean
the rice and beans sounds awful,and I didn't do that for sure I
(12:40):
wasn't eating rice and beans.
I wasn't eating caviar andlobster either, but all with a
reason.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
You know the it's, and people may find this hard to
believe it's it's actually hardto spend money on things that
actually make your life betterin the long run.
And so if you had and this islike research there's, there's
(13:07):
research, you know, on this Ifyou had like two twin brothers
and one of them broke their legone day and the other one won
the lottery the other day andthe day before, you know on this
If you had like two twinbrothers and one of them broke
their leg one day and the otherone won the lottery the other
day and the day before you know,they'd both say they're seven
out of 10 happy.
Two years later, they will bothbe seven out of 10 happy again.
You know, it's, it's and it'sbecause, or or the lottery
(13:27):
stories you've heard that ortheir life's way worse.
But you tend to just kind of goin the short term, right, if
expectations are exceeded in ashort-term scenario, then you're
happy for the moment until youkind of re-equilibrate.
Like, if you get a new car,it's fun for three months or six
months and then it's just yourcar again, but you spend a bunch
of money and for five years youhave that note.
(13:48):
Yeah, you know a bunch of money, and for five years you have
that note.
Yeah, you know um, and andactually um, kind of.
The one of the things that'skind of the opposite is that
I've in my mind is going onvacation, um, which I'm not a
huge fan of vacation personallyum, because it feels like you're
just in my mind blowing moneyand you don't have anything
(14:09):
tangible.
But I actually think going onvacation, you are at least left
with like some memories, right,and in a way that may even be
worth more than buying a thing,right, you know that um.
So even though it seemsintangible, it kind of lasts
longer it does, and and again.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
You know you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know, travel halfway around the world for
sure go to nashville, you know,go to kansas city, I mean you
can have, you don't have totravel halfway around the world.
For sure, go to Nashville, goto Kansas City, I mean you're
going to have a good time.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I've been to over half of the states in the US and
I'd love to see the rest ofthem.
Yeah, and that does not take alot of money.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So my kids, I've never taken them to Disney World
, I've taken them to SilverDollar City.
They're 10 out of 10, happy.
They're not going to get to 11.
You know this is not right.
This is not Spinal Tap.
You know that's a reference toan amplifier in the movie.
But I mean you know 10 out of10, you're maximal happy.
I'm not throwing shade at peoplewho take their kids to, you
(15:08):
know, disney World, but I meanto me it's it's just a bunch of
extra money and like they'regoing to be happy with what they
got.
But I think you know kind ofknowing that and knowing that
when you, you can, if you want,you can keep spending money
trying to chase this high andkeep momentarily being happy,
(15:29):
but it puts you in a badposition.
You know, financially, and whenyou, when you realize that, you
know kind of Eastern philosophy, that you know if you want to
be happy, think about happythoughts.
You know it's, it's in yourbrain, it's not.
Yeah, you know, if you want tofeel accomplished, you know,
don't go buy a Rolex, just thinkabout your accomplishments,
(15:50):
right, and subvert it.
But you just don't want to getinto a position and sometimes
you can't help it, but you don'twant to get into a position
where you're financiallyleveraged and you're kind of up
against the wall Because there'sno stress like financial stress
.
I mean, I've seen patients showup in the ER having panic
attacks and you just don't wantto live that way if you can
(16:11):
avoid it and some people havebad breaks in life, no doubt
about it.
I mean I definitely acknowledgethat.
But you want to do everythingyou can to prepare yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So if you do have a bad break, you're at least
secure in that capacity and Idon't know about you, but when I
see somebody, you know I'mtalking about you.
I don't know what you drive.
I don't know what you drive,but when somebody passes me in
the brand new super duper BMWXXX you know, whatever, there's
zero envy for me.
I look at that and the firstthing I think is man, you're
broke.
(16:41):
You are more than likely youare broke.
You're fixing to go to a houseyou can't afford.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You're going to park your car in the garage of your
house.
You can't afford.
It's a weird thing becauseyou're, you're um, if you wanted
to be, you can kind of cut outthe middleman, right?
If you wanted to think you'rerich, you could.
At least you can look at themoney that you saved, or you can
spend all that money.
Not be rich and let somebodyelse tell you you're rich right
but or you could just subvertthe process and look at your
account and be like you know,know what.
I've been disciplined.
I can see in my account.
(17:18):
There's money there, whetherit's your retirement account or
whatever, and people can spendtheir money on whatever they
want.
I don't want to pass judgment,necessarily, but you don't want
to get on this hedonic treadmillwhere you keep buying something
else, something else, somethingelse yeah, keeping up with the
Joneses.
You don't have to be like ohman Walmart, what was him?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Remember?
He was known for driving thistruck.
Oh, sam Walton.
Yeah, he barely drove.
Yeah, an old Chevy truck.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
But there's something you kind of love about that
story.
You know Sam Walton, he's worth$80 billion.
Story.
You know sam walton, he's worth80 billion and overall he's got
a truck, an old chippy truck,and there's something that's
kind of great about that andit's like the guy had some inner
peace.
You know um and so um, and soyou stuck with the program I did
.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I have been, I'm still on the program.
Yeah, it's.
It's just basically justchanged my, my way of thoughts,
my thinking process, how I actand react towards money.
Yeah, because once you getdebt-free, there's no feeling
like it and in fact you neverwill.
(18:25):
It doesn't matter whether youmake minimum wage or six figures
.
You'll never really know yourincome if you have all this debt
.
Yeah, because you have what youmake minus what the government
takes and allows you to keep,and then after that it's what
all you've spent on your stuff.
Yeah, and minus that is whatyou've now got to live on until
(18:48):
the next either two weeks orweek or month or what have you.
Yeah, and so you never reallyrealize your income and you
won't.
You won't until you, until youget done paying for your things.
Yeah, you know, and it's, it's.
I always think.
You know like, uh, you knowyour, your grandparents, you
know like, was talking about.
You know if you couldn't affordit, you don't buy it, you can't
(19:10):
.
You know there was no creditcards and if you went to the
bank, it was, it was a handshake.
You know those type of days aregone.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, and, and I think sometimes people work hard
.
You know, and, and you think,and you see, every social media
has made this worse.
You know, you see your neighborwith this fancy thing or that
and you feel like, well, Ideserve that, and it's, and it's
like you.
Your bank account will tell youif you deserve it, but it's not
going to make you happier.
It will not in the long run.
(19:38):
Momentarily you'll be happy,but then in the long run you're
going to be worse off for it.
And and it's, and it's, um, andI do think you know we were
social animals.
We compare ourselves to eachother for sure, and so and and
we're all nobody's perfect withthat.
I'm not, you're not.
You know we all fall prey tothat, but it is just good to
know that there's.
(19:59):
If you're looking for qualityof life in the long run, think
about your future self and andtry to try to have the
discipline and develop thehabits of being happy without
spending money, so you can havethat financial security.
I grew up and there's this guyI've known almost my whole life
(20:23):
and he had a below average jobas far as income.
It was an honest living.
He was a good person, but asfar as income it was below the
job.
Okay, as far as income it wasan honest living.
He was a good person.
But as far as income it wasbelow the median.
Um, but he didn't spend much.
Um, he always had.
If he bought a car it was usedUm he'd work on it, um you don't
have it for a long time.
(20:44):
I could probably name every carthis guy ever had, cause
there's only a few.
And he's in his 60s now and he'sgot a nice enough house, it's
paid for, he's got two cars andhe just lived a disciplined life
.
I mean, he just did not spendmore than he had and he's doing
(21:05):
fine for himself.
And I guess what I'd tell youngpeople is you know, it's super.
I think for the young peopleout there now it's really tough
for them.
I mean the, the, the amount youknow your rent payment is or
your house payment is as apercentage of your income, is
probably the worst it's been in50 years due to the inflation,
you know the last five years.
But you, you can becomefinancially independent, you can
(21:32):
become wealthy, but there's noshortcut.
It's boring and it's going totake a long time and it's hard
to suffer what you think issuffering today by not kind of
scratching that itch of buyingthe thing you got your eye on.
But it won't make you happierand you are going to be 65 at
(21:53):
some point and it's better tojust try to have the discipline
and develop good habits todayand for your future self.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I think the, the.
I think it's changed a lot toofrom like when, you know, I was
in my twenties.
You know, early thirties, the,the, the peer pressure is quite
different because wes, you know,early 30s, the peer pressure is
quite different because we,like you know, I didn't come
from the side of town that hadmoney.
So, you know, going to Europewas beyond.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That was only for rich people.
That's what you see on TV, yeah, so there was no, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Hey, you know, come over and look at my new $70,000
truck, or hey, we're justgetting back from Ireland.
There was none of that, so youdidn't have to.
It was a lot easier to keep upwith the Joneses.
You had a car that ran, thatlooked halfway dead seat, and
you kept it clean and you tookcare of it and that was pretty
much.
You want to keep it in my car.
(22:51):
I just washed it.
It's clean.
It looks real nice.
That was how you kept up withthe chances.
Yeah, you know your house wasnice.
You kept it clean.
It didn't stink.
You know it was.
You know you you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
You kept pictures online.
Yeah, you know.
If people see you wearing thesame outfit you know for three
different events, then they actlike something's wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And Facebook is like look at me, book, it's what it
is, show and tell.
Book it's it's, and there'spositives and negatives, but I
mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It kind of cultivates some of this behavior.
That's not good for you in thelong run.
You've got to be happy withyourself For sure, happy with
yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
That doesn't come easy.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Right, you don't read a book and it happens.
No, and just like about thewhole Dave Ramsey plan, is that
you didn't amount all this debtovernight.
You're not going to pay it offovernight.
It's like like a diet.
You know it was fun putting theweight on.
It's not fun taking it off.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Paying the debt off it's not fun either and there's
a lot of similarities, you know,with dieting too.
Um, being kind of more like anengineer and like actually
looking at the calories is theway to go, but not all of us,
you know, turn into an artistwhere we're like, oh, I'm
roughly about this and so yeah,for sure it's, but good things
(24:19):
they take time and they takediscipline and it's.
I think it's hard to replacethat feeling of having that
financial freedom.
I mean, nothing you could buywould ever make you that happy
or free.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I tell you for me personally, like as I was going
through the steps, it was evenjust more motivation, it was
more fun, it became fun, itbecame exciting, yeah, that I'm
fixing to hit another milestone.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
A couple of yeah for sure, like most people will
describe it as like no, that wasa good time in my life, you
know, going through that.
A couple statistics here tothrow out Worldwide to be the
top 1% of earners worldwide, inAmerica or not in America.
(25:12):
Worldwide, you got to make$65,000 to be the first
percentile worldwide.
And so, just to put things intoperspective, to be in the top
20% which different people willuse different numbers, but the
top 20% of considered upperclass or at least upper middle
(25:34):
class as a household, you make$160,000.
Okay, which is a lot of money,but but I think a lot of people
who fall into this category youknow if you're a what's 160, I'm
guessing is like a firefighterand a teacher with some years of
(25:55):
experience in a nice district,roughly A lot of times, I think,
because of all the stuff yousee out there, people making
that often probably don't feellike they're upper class.
Right, you know what I mean, andsome of it too, is perspective.
We live in this metro area.
This is all you see.
(26:16):
I'm not from a metro area, Idon't think you are either, and
so my view of the world is alittle bit broader maybe.
But I mean, I think withinflation and just the
comparison is, people in thisdemographic don't feel like
they're upper class.
People in this demographicdon't feel like they're upper
class and I think.
(26:39):
But when you compare yourselfto your friends and neighbors,
you don't know what's going onthere?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I mean their whole lifestyle may be leveraged.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
What are some parting thoughts you have about all
this Jared?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, one of the things also is is I look at
housing?
Housing is so expensive.
You know I grew Jared Um well,one.
One of the things also is is Ilook at housing?
Housing is so expensive.
You know, I grew up inBirmingham, alabama, and you
know you think it's kind of likeway everywhere.
But you know when and this waswhen I, when I was looking for a
house, way back, way back whenthe average house was about
$150,000 and you know there wasno way I could afford that.
(27:16):
So I bought a house.
My first house was $78,500.
And it needed a lot of work.
And I'm not a carpenter, but Ihad to learn how to become one.
I'm not a plumber orelectrician, but you bet I
learned how to be a plumber andelectrician because I could not
afford to pay these people tocome in and fix my stuff,
because they made way more thanI did my average.
(27:37):
I paid one plumber one time tocome out and fix a leaky sink.
When I bought my first house,I'd been there maybe a couple
months and he worked for about30 minutes and he took a week's
pay from me.
That's rough.
I said right then, and there youknow, I'm a plumber, I'm a
plumber.
I can learn it did not look likerocket science what he did back
(27:59):
there.
So if he can do it, I'm smartenough at least.
I can at least get near it, youknow, yeah, so I learned how to
do a lot of things, and so eventoday I have a real hard time
paying someone to do somethingthat I can do.
And a lot of people say, well,your time is worth something.
It's really not Because you'reinvesting in yourself or your
(28:20):
property or what have you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And it's another skill, another experience to go
through.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It broadens your and I actually I hate to say it, but
I kind of enjoy it.
I don't when I'm doing it.
You know I'm one of those guysthat you know leave me in the
basement and cover your earsbecause it might get colorful,
you know, because it never goes,because I don't do it all the
time.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I'm not a professional plumber or
something, so it never works outperfectly.
But how much pride do you havewhen you finish it?
When I finish it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I'm looking at it and I'm thinking that looks
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, you found your chest.
Even when I'm on the yard, I'mfeeling good about myself, you
know.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
But Just the housing has gotten to be so much that I
hear.
It pains me to hear.
I just had a guy tell me thiswas just a couple months ago.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
He's probably mid-20s and he told me he and his wife.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
they just don't foresee in the future how they
can buy a house and I didn't sayanything.
But I thought you're going tohave to reevaluate what's
important to you, because if Ihad that same mentality then I
would have never bought my firsthouse.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah.
So the median home price now Ithink it's about $350,000.
And that's just median and then.
But one thing is, the medianhome size is a lot bigger than
it used to be too.
I mean, just go drive down inSouth city or or in C, homes
that were built in the fifties,um, or um, uh or earlier, and I
(29:42):
mean there's, there's smaller1200 square feet, you know type
of deal.
And so we're just kind of acustom to um live is what seems
normal is to now live in a.
I would say the average houseis probably over 2,000 square
feet.
I could be wrong, but it'ssignificantly larger than it was
in 1990.
And HOAs, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I mean, not only do you have to pay this exorbitant
price for this house, becauseit's got this brick sign in the
front that says something thatpeople recognize you know the
cove, or whatever it says, youknow and it's like, oh, I live
in the cove.
Well, now that you live in thecove and you have this house,
that's, you know, probably alittle bit it was a little tight
(30:30):
to get in, but now every monthyou've got this thing called
HOAs that you've got to pay in.
They're the people that it'slike still living kind of at
your parents' place.
They tell you what color youcan paint your house, if you can
have a car outside or not, whattime you need to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I mean, all these things, they don't feel free.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Right, right, and so I find that, if you can do, this
is still America.
You can still do what you want.
It depends.
You've got to scale it back,though, because what you do is
like that house I bought, Iworked on it, worked on it I
mean, I was doing all that Icould do for that house, and
(31:10):
when I sold it, I made a prettynice little profit from it
rolled it into another house,got in that house, did a whole
lot of work on that house, youknow, sold it, rolled it into
another house, got in that house, did a whole lot of work on
that house, sold it, rolled itinto the third house, and you
keep doing that until that's howyou can get.
You can still buy that, say,$100,000 house, but by the time
you're in your third house,you're still.
(31:31):
You're paying $100,000, butyou're buying a $250,000 house.
Yeah, because you just keeprolling that equity into the
other homes.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For the young people out there,it's not going to come quick.
No, it's not fun and it's justbrick by brick, step by step.
But you might as well starttoday.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And the Dave Ramsey plan is a way to get you there.
I think faster Probably thebest thing going out there.
I think it's faster becauseyou're going to come to this one
way or the other.
I think You're going to have aone day.
You and your family is going tohave a sit-down, yeah, and it's
going to be like we've got todo something because what we're
doing is not working.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, the pesky shackles of reality always end
up winning, don't they Right?
Always end up winning, don'tthey Right.
All right, jared Well hey,buddy, I appreciate you and it's
always good talking to you.
Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Can I leave you one last?
Thing, yeah, please.
Number 10 on the I think it'sthe 107th of the plan is what I
think is the most exciting tolook forward to.
That's the one where you cangive.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, build wealth and give Right, and so you
donate to things that you thinkare important Church, maybe the
server you have.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Give her a hundred bucks.
Yeah, Haircut girl, she'stelling you a sad story.
A hundred bucks, you give her ahundred bucks.
You're not out that much.
Yeah, you just changed her week, her month.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And the feeling you get from that is longer lasting
than the feeling you're going toget from buying that new pair
of shoes.
And so if your goal is tooptimize your length of life and
quality of life, your return oninvestments typically better
with giving.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And by that point you're already to the last baby
step, so everything's paid for.
You've got your next day,you're pretty much should be set
and you're making a positivedifference in this world, and
now you can go out and you canhelp others.
Yeah, and that's the only thingit was.
Just you know, once you get tothe very end, it still continues
.
Yeah, because now you have achance to change someone else's
(33:30):
life and be positive.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And you sympathize with people who are kind of in
the same position.
You were a long time ago.
We've all been down the sameroad.
You bet Most of us.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean for sure.
Yeah, everybody's going to havetough times and we're all in
this world together, right, andwe got to try to take care of
each other, but it really yougot to take care of yourself too
.
Right to right, and you'reyou're.
There's something called aMonte Carlo simulation and we
use it for radiationcalculations, but it's a Monte
(34:01):
Carlo.
Is that a roulette wheel?
Okay, and so it started offdoing multiple runs on a
roulette wheel, so you just itwould be like a thousand balls
in a row and seeing what numbersit landed on, and that's called
a run.
And it became a mathematicalway to simulate things.
And if you looked at your lifelike a monte carlo simulation,
like over the next 20 years,your life, there's there's a
(34:23):
thousand different use thatcould exist.
But if, if you're making movestoday that are going to help,
kind of any of those potentialuse, if you looked at your life
like a simulation, a lot ofthings could happen.
But you want to do things thatkind of, have some respect for
the future version of you,whatever that may be, and it
(34:43):
could be anything and and Ithink you know, having the
discipline to do that, findingmeaning in your life and purpose
.
I mean people will keep workingeven if they're totally
financially free, because theyfeel like they have obligations
to charities and obligations topeople or family or whatever,
and they feel good about that,their legacy.
(35:06):
I think in life it's good tohave purpose, it's good to be on
a mission, it's good to try tomake a positive difference in
this world and most people whowhat's the meaning of life,
that's what it is Find thingsyou think are important and try
to make them better.
Um and um.
You know you'll get all kindsof philosophies, but I think if
you put them into an AI andaveraged them out, it would be
(35:28):
something like that and it, it,I know it's, it's, it's
gratifying for me to give it's.
Probably the happiest momentsof the year are when you're, you
know somewhere and you have theopportunity to give a little
bit Right.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, Like you said, you got to help yourself first.
It's like they say on theairplane you always put the
oxygen on yourself.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, save yourself, because if you, start putting it
on others.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You're of no good to anyone.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And you know, another good kind of saying about life
is nobody's coming to save you,Right.
You've got to save yourself,exactly, and that's good news
and bad news, because I don'twant to be somebody else up to
somebody else, but the bad newsis I've got to do the work.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And hard living, hard choices, I think, have escaped
most people these days.
Yeah, a lot of the youth thatare coming up are not being told
no, are not doing without.
They don't understand doingwithout.
Doing without is like a timeoutfor 10 minutes with their
favorite game.
You know not that I can't, wecan't afford that game.
Yeah, you can't have that game,we won't get that game yeah,
(36:30):
it's a, it's a.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Hard people, uh, create good time.
You know, bad times create hardpeople.
Hard people create good times.
Good times create, create hardpeople.
Hard people create good times.
Good times create soft people.
And it feels like we're in thatphase of the cycle and you've
got to develop self-discipline.
In anything in life, we're notperfect.
(36:53):
Forgive yourself for sure forUm, for your weaknesses and your
past transgressions.
We all have them.
Just move forward and figureout.
You know how can you have somerespect for your future version
of yourself?
Exactly All right, buddy.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Hey, good seeing you Good talking to you as well.
It's always fun.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Thanks, chris for for um for your work here today.
And, Todd, as always, always.
And Kelly, we appreciateeverybody in the staff.
That's all for today.
Jared Barton, you're my man.
All right, Thank you.
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