August 22, 2025 • 38 mins
James Mistry: Pulling Back The Curtain On Event Safety.
This week on EventNewsDXB, we sit down with James Mistry, founder of JAM Event Services, for an unfiltered conversation about the realities of event safety and staffing in the Middle East.
From the chaotic beginnings of Dubai’s early event scene to Expo 2020’s game-changing legacy, James shares candid insights into why event safety is now seen as essential. Plus he offers his take on how the culture around mental health is finally evolving in a field long defined by burnout and unsustainable hours.
James doesn’t hold back when it comes to the industry’s challenges, explaining why he believes too many companies still think quantity trumps quality. He also shines a light on Saudi Arabia’s explosive growth, where a young, ambitious population and a rapidly expanding events calendar are creating opportunities unlike anywhere else in the world.
🎧 Listen now to hear James’s take on what the industry gets right, what it gets wrong, and why the future of events in the Middle East has never looked more promising.
EventNewsDXB is supported by Warehouse Four and -45dB
Production Credits:
Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian Carless (00:19):
Thank you.
Lead or part of an in-houseteam.
I hope that this podcast givesyou some practical takeaways,
fresh perspectives and a deeperunderstanding of how things
really get done in one of theworld's most fast-moving event
markets.
And for season two, I'm superpleased to let you know that
Event News DXB is brought to youby Warehouse 4, dubai's best
(00:40):
independent event venue, andMinus45DB, the team transforming
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Minus 45 dB builds modularspaces that are quiet,
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And they're sustainable tooSmart design with zero waste.
(01:04):
Check them out at minus45dbcom.
In this week's episode, I'mjoined by James Mystery, founder
of JAM Event Services, who'splayed a big part in shaping how
we think about safety, staffingand training across the event
industry here in the UAE andSaudi Arabia.
Across the event industry herein the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
(01:26):
We talk about how JAM hasevolved from a one-man
production and safety gig into atrusted name across the region,
and how that growth was drivennot by a master plan but by
listening to what clientsactually needed, whether it's
crowd management, mental healthawareness or placing the right
people in the right roles.
James brings a brutally honestand no BS perspective to how
(01:47):
things work in the Middle East.
So if you've ever worked a14-hour shift, juggled on-site
chaos, or been thrown in thedeep end and expected to swim,
you'll probably relate to thisepisode.
Let's get into it into it.
(02:07):
You're listening to the EventNews DXB podcast, james.
James Mistry (02:13):
Welcome to the podcast Ian, thank you for the
invite.
Ian Carless (02:19):
Yeah, we finally get there.
It took a while, but here weare.
A few weeks in the making, buthere we are.
Let's just jump straight intoit, shall we?
How did you end up in Dubai?
And, more importantly, how didyou end up?
James Mistry (02:25):
in events.
Let me go with the secondquestion.
First, how did I end up inevents?
I always wanted to work inevents.
I always thought it was cooland one day I basically did a
course while I was sat in myparents' house and then moved to
London and started doing events.
So I started from the ground upup, which people would have
(02:47):
heard me say before, but I thinkit's the only way you should do
it.
Yeah, so I was local crew.
I was building stages, lightingrigs, troughs, sound systems,
and it could be argued that wasone of the happiest happiest
times of my event career.
To be honest, because you do it.
You'd smash it out for 12 hoursand then you'd walk away from it
and go home and not think aboutit absolutely um so, yeah,
(03:11):
that's how I got into events andthen, I guess probably like
most people, it grew from there,so started off as local crew.
Then I started doing artistliaison, did the whole festival
scene in the uk, then productionmanagement project, production
safety, and here I am now.
Yeah, so what brought you outhere?
So me and what's now my wife,were in London for 10 years.
(03:35):
Every weekend, most nights,we'd go to the pub every weekend
, we just party and we justthought, listen, we might turn
around and we'll be 60 and we'llstill be doing this.
Yeah, so we were like, let's do.
When I say we, I mean my wife,of course no, so we were like
listen, let's do somethingdifferent.
So we looked with the skillsthat we had and what we could
(03:57):
doing, where could we go?
Dubai was on the map.
My what's now?
My wife got a job here.
That fell through.
I got a job here.
We moved out here the job I had.
I was only there for two weeksbecause it didn't match what I
was looking for.
They're now my client I won'tsay who it is, but bigger.
(04:17):
So, yeah, that's kind of whatbrought us out here.
And then the last eight yearshas been pretty exciting, yeah.
Ian Carless (04:26):
Which probably leads us right up to where you
are now, doesn't it, jam?
Yeah, how did that come intofruition?
James Mistry (04:32):
So, as I said, I moved out here.
I was head of production forone of the agencies.
It was they're a small agencyand a couple of weeks in it just
didn't really sit with what Iwanted and where I thought they
could go.
They're an amazing company now,by the way.
They were back then.
So then I kind of started doinga bit of freelancing.
(04:53):
I was a production managerthat's what was my trade, if you
will, but I had my health andsafety qualifications.
I took those to be a betterproduction manager.
Yeah, I started doing a bit ofsafety stuff and then, I think,
naturally, once I was out here,there was a bit of a gap in the
market and started running atthat.
So the company was firstincorporated as Jam Productions.
(05:14):
We moved that across to JamEvent Services and then,
naturally, that's kind of webecame the safety guys of Dubai.
That's what we were kind ofknown as.
And then from there we keptgetting asked for more by our
clients, which is how jam peoplehappened.
Because people, because we werestill going out as production
managers, a small team of us, sothat's kind of how jam people
(05:37):
the freelancers, perm, hires,events, staffing that's how that
grew.
And then, yeah, a couple ofyears ago, jam training, which
again was born from the want andneeds of our clients.
If we look at, a huge amount ofwhat we do is in Saudi.
It's 70% of the populationthere are under 35.
They didn't have events fiveyears ago.
They want to get into it.
(05:58):
That's where jam training fitsin.
So natural progression from allof it.
Yeah.
Ian Carless (06:03):
And we'll come on shortly to talk about jam people
and jam training.
I just want to stick with thesafety thing to begin with.
Look for the layman out there.
I think of event safety and Ithink of crowd control barriers,
and maybe there's an ambulanceparked at the entrance somewhere
.
There's obviously a lot more toit than that there's a little
bit more, yeah, so give us arundown.
And secondly, actually the firstpart of the question is so when
(06:25):
you moved out here, yeah, whatwas your perception of the
safety industry around events?
I mean, I've been here for 22years now and I think I wouldn't
be going too far out of thedeep end if I said that when I
moved out here, yeah, crowdsafety or any kind of safety
events or you know, and withinproduction and many industries
was it a nice to have if youwanted it, but not necessarily a
(06:49):
must have.
That's obviously changed.
So what was your perception?
James Mistry (06:53):
What was my perception is absolute insanity,
I think was the.
Why am I not surprised?
Yeah, absolute insanity.
But listen, everyone goes intoevents because they like events.
Yeah, if people want it andwanted a nine to five, they'll
go and get a nine to five.
People want to earn as muchmoney as possible.
You never meet someone you go.
Why were you into events?
I wanted to.
(07:13):
I didn't want to be aninvestment banker.
I thought I'd make more moneydoing events.
You do events.
It comes from passion everyone.
So that's my opinion anyway.
Yeah, so I think it's uh, backto kind of where you were going.
One of the first big events Iworked on was um, mother of the
nation, and I was literallybrought in as a safety advisor
(07:33):
under a guy called bruno marx,who is very well known, and it
was just to look after one standand it was just.
It was insanity because you'rejust.
It was like herding cats and Ithink in the uae it's not as
much like that anymore.
There's still a hell of a lotof companies that are, but
generally speaking, the levelsstandards have gone up a lot.
(07:54):
But now I understand a lot morethe levels of safety here
across the gcc saudi.
It's all to do with training,it's all to do with education.
It's not because people aretrying to fight against it, if
you will, but now we understandthat it's like a lot of the
people who are working on theseevent sites never had that
(08:15):
education, so they don't know abetter way to do it.
So you can hit them with astick and shout with them as
much as you want that's notliterally with a stick, because
you're not allowed to as youwant.
That's not literally with astick, because you're not
allowed to do that, by the way,but nothing's going to change
there.
So it kind of comes down toeducation, yeah, so when you
were thinking about starting jam.
Ian Carless (08:35):
What was it that you identified?
What was the area where youthought you god, I gotta do
something about this.
James Mistry (08:40):
We, you know do you know what?
Being honest, I don't thinkthere wasn't.
You know, this was me eightyears ago, so I was in my early
30s.
I wasn't, like you know,calling greta thunberg on the
weekend and working out what theproblems were and how we can
solve the solutions.
It wasn't as deep as that.
Yeah, it's like, let's behonest, I just moved across to
(09:01):
dubai.
I was trying to find my find myway within the events world, so
I think it was about utilizingthe skills I had and then, as
things move forward, as Istarted to meet more companies,
as I started to see more of theopportunity I would say jam was
born then, so jam was probablyaround before the the deep
(09:22):
vision and goals and objectivesthat we have now, you know, and
that comes years after years.
And it's like, you know, as afounder as well.
It's like I was a freelancerback in the day.
You know, you're not like 21years old and you're like, oh,
I'm actually a, I'm a thoughtleadership specialist.
It's like that's all bullshit,man.
It's like I was a freelancer.
(09:43):
You're kind of working stuffout.
As you go through, as you getolder, you make a load of
mistakes.
You try and not do those again.
So I think it's yeah, withoutgoing too deep of my vision for
the.
You know, when I was 21 yearsold, we're a lot wiser now.
Let's just say thatno-transcript.
(10:10):
I think you know when we'retalking about jam safety, it's
event safety and it's crowdmanagement.
And like what are thoseelements?
Event safety any stakeholderwho's basically involved.
It's about public safety andrelating to the safety of that,
yeah, yeah.
So any stakeholder, anyonewho's involved.
Crowd management crowdmanagement to us as a company is
(10:33):
ingress, circulation and egressof large amounts of people.
If you're talking about, inSaudi Arabia, crowd management
is often considered hostessesand ushers that play a part in
that.
But for us we take a more kindof UK thought process on what
crowd management is.
So I think there's those twoelements you know.
(10:53):
So usually on the jam safetyside, we're engaged for both or
for one of those elements.
I think what's important for usis when we get a call, we just
try and find out from the clientwhy are they calling us?
Yeah, they're calling usbecause they and find out from
the client why are they callingus?
Yeah, they're calling usbecause they've been told they
have to.
They're calling us because theywant to run a good event.
They're calling us because theyunderstand how important safety
(11:15):
is for the overall operation,which means everyone there will
have a great time and the outputand the media will echo that.
So I think for us it's firstoff, why are you calling us?
How can we help you?
The amount of calls we get fromsaudi going I need safety and
we go fantastic stage one.
What do you need?
I need safety.
Cool, we're still at stage one,you know so it's.
(11:37):
But listen, that's part of ourjob.
It's about well, you're back tothe education and training yeah,
but it's about like working outwhat do you need, and sometimes
they don't know what they needand that's cool, we can help
them with that.
So a bit of navigating thatgoes with it, yeah.
Ian Carless (11:51):
How much has the industry changed with regard to
that?
With clients, I want to saythat probably when you got off
the boat then it was a bit of anice to have, or yeah, let's
just not bother with that andhope for the best.
And how much of that haschanged now?
How many of your clients areactually coming to you knowing
that this has to be an integralpart of their operation?
James Mistry (12:11):
I would say, as I said before, eight years.
We've been here now, yeah, andwe've been operating in saudi
for seven years as well.
So I think it's basically expowas the?
Was the turning point, if youwill.
So it's like, as I said, whenwe got here it was pretty rogue.
Now that's a staple in 90% ofthe events.
Safety is a critical element in90% of the events that get
(12:34):
delivered in Dubai and I thinkthere's also forwarded on by the
companies in our ecosystem.
By companies, I mean eventagencies and the production
houses that they use.
So, like an early adopter, backin the day, evolution, I
remember Caroline and David very, very early on, one of our
first long-term clients, if youwill.
They basically turned aroundand were like we will have an
(12:57):
event safety representative onevery single event.
They were one of the first todo that and that was them
basically putting their company.
They were basically sayingthat's one of the ways we can
differentiate ourselves.
Yeah.
Then you've got all of theglobal agencies Jack Morton,
imagination, blah, blah.
They're bound by what they needto do globally.
So they were, you know, earlyadopters and have been doing it
(13:18):
for a long time.
So I think there was a slowshift and now it's in a really
good place here.
Saudi is going through the samething.
I don't need to harbor thepoint that event safety in saudi
is less advanced than here.
We all know that.
Yeah, but they're getting itand more and more of the
(13:39):
agencies out there understand itand the government entities
which are passing their jobsdown.
You know it's built into moreof the rfps, so exactly the same
as it was here, but, yeah, abit more wild west in the um in
saudi, of course how much of acatalyst was covid in terms of
event safety.
I don't know how much.
I think I mean there's no rightanswer.
Ian Carless (14:02):
It might it might not have been you know.
James Mistry (14:03):
No, I think it's event safety.
Covid covid was was funny yeah.
And it was probably noteveryone will have that approach
to it, but COVID was Funny.
Peculiar as opposed to probablyhard, yeah peculiar is probably
the thanks for pulling me out ofthat one.
You know, we were an eventsafety company and then COVID
(14:24):
hit and our clients are turningaround and being like what do we
do?
And it's like we haven't dealtwith many global pandemics.
And, of course, we can do theresearch.
People go to school for 20, 20years to learn about things like
this.
Yeah, we can't become an expertin a few days, you know.
It just doesn't really worklike that.
So I think it brought in a lotof different control measures
(14:46):
that we had to try and play with.
But I think it's for me eventsafety and COVID.
They were slightly differentand COVID-19 became a section in
event safety management plans.
It's no longer in it for us.
We took that out a while ago.
Ian Carless (15:01):
Now moving on.
Obviously you've now got JAMpeople and JAM training.
Tell us about the peopleelement people and jam training.
James Mistry (15:11):
Yeah, tell us about the people element
essentially.
Yeah, we for a long time we'vebeen known as as the safety.
You know, jam safety is verywell known across the gcc.
You know, a few years ago westarted jam people.
As I said, born from the wantof our clients, that's grown.
Now they're essentially threecompanies under one jam roof, if
you will.
So jam people, we've gotfreelancers, permanent and then
event staffing as well.
It's good, it's hardcore, it'syeah three.
(15:34):
Three businesses is a lot, youknow, especially when they're
all set in the same office butthey all complement each other.
You know, that's the wholething is you need all of these
services when you're deliveringevents.
Clients want to come to atrusted provider who can give
them more than one servicerather than having to break it
up.
So Jam People is, for me,probably the most exciting part
(15:54):
of the business at the moment.
There's amazing stuff going onthere.
We've got an amazing team splitacross Riyadh and Dubai.
So, yeah, it's very exciting.
I'll just say that.
Ian Carless (16:07):
How do you get around the whole staffing issue
for events?
I mean, clearly you knowthere's only so many people you
have on the books full time.
You know the freelance industryhere in Dubai whilst it's got
much, much, much better,obviously, and there is a
freelance industry now, you knowI can go back not so many years
and there just wasn't theopportunity for freelancing.
(16:27):
How has that changed and how doyou manage that element of your
business?
James Mistry (16:32):
Listen, I think it's let's talk openly yeah, and
it's.
There's a number of companiesdo this Event Lab with a start
big up to Nadeem.
He's done an amazing job.
Where that company is now, youknow, there's a number of
companies that do what we do.
What makes us different for meis quality and customer service
and is the level of service thatpeople get.
(16:53):
Do you get that from the othercompanies?
I don't know, I don't work withthem, but the whole idea of
everything that comes out of Jamis quality.
We stamped our name on theindustry with Jam Safety and
it's like what we do in thatspace is important and it's
critical, especially for thesize and scale of events that
we're working on.
Yeah, we wanted that same levelof accuracy, of quality, to go
(17:16):
into Jam People, to go into JamTraining.
So I think with Jam People,there's a number of providers
out there.
Do they all deliver as well aswe do?
I don't know.
Let the clients answer that.
You know, I think withdifferent companies in that
(17:36):
space as well, they've gotdifferent ideas and objectives
and targets and all of that.
What's important for us?
Do what we do, do what we doreally well, I think with the
freelance market.
It's great, it's buoyant,there's a lot going on, there's
a lot of people that get pulledacross from Europe and globally
and it's it's an exciting timefor freelanc pulled across from
Europe and globally, and it's anexciting time for freelancers
as far as I'm concerned, becausewhat's going on in Saudi Arabia
at the moment?
It's insane, it's crazy.
(17:57):
No one's spending money likethat.
No one's putting on gigs likethat.
So it's an exciting time tolearn and grow.
We want to facilitate that.
It's like if I put myself backto being a freelancer, what did
I want 20 years ago?
Wanted to work on cool gigs,man.
This is why I'm doing it.
I either want to earn goodmoney on them or I want to be
(18:18):
educated and I want to be aroundcool stuff and we have to
facilitate that.
Like what's Jam's job.
What's Jam people's job is tomake sure that we're working
with the best clients.
We're making sure that we'reworking with clients that care,
and that's on us, that's not onthe freelancer.
Ian Carless (18:33):
Yeah, Do you think you'd have been able to run this
side of the business, say, 10years ago?
Hell, no.
James Mistry (18:38):
Hell, no, not at all.
Why?
Because I think it's naturalprogression and I think it's,
you know, just with jam training.
It's about a year and a halfold, something like that.
It's like we're growing andwe're learning as we're moving
forward and we're seeingopportunities.
I've got two or three otherbusinesses I want to do and you
know the wife's like yeah, yeah,cool, just chill out a bit.
(18:59):
It's, you know and it's, butit's about it's, it's about
timing, it's about understanding.
With Jam People, I've hiredsome amazing people who are very
, who have got great experiencein this space, have got great
experience in the global eventspace, to help us position
ourselves for the things we wantto be working on.
Yeah, could I have done it 10years ago?
(19:21):
No, I wouldn't want it tobecause my focus was elsewhere.
Jam wasn't even.
I was like 10 years ago, whatwas I doing?
Trying to get paid, man, tryingto get paid, trying to make it
till the end of the month.
Ian Carless (19:30):
Yeah, let's just quickly talk about just doing
business in the UAE overall,because obviously you've come
over from the UK.
How easy, shall we say, or howdifficult has it been to
initially set up the businessand then also scale it to the
level that you're obviouslyrunning at right now?
James Mistry (19:48):
I guess the honest answer is I've got nothing to
compare it to.
Yeah, so I don't.
You know, I can have a littlepity party and say how hard it's
been and all this, but it'slike the honest answer to that I
absolutely love it, like I lovethe hustle, I love the insanity
, I love the madness.
I'm getting a bit older now soI don't love it as much as I
(20:08):
used to, but five years ago, Ithrive off that stuff.
I live and breathe it.
You know, that's why I loveSaudi so much, because it's the.
You get one phone call and itcan lead to you know well, it
can lead to a lot of trouble,but it can lead to a lot of good
things.
So I think it's easy to set upbusinesses here now.
It's easy to set up businesseshere now.
It's a lot easier in Saudi.
(20:29):
I think what you have to haveis the passion You've got to.
How has Jam got where it istoday?
Probably just through the sheeramount of time that I've put
into it.
Ian Carless (20:41):
You talked about quality earlier in relation to
staffing.
Obviously, we were talking offcamera, weren't we?
Or, just before the podcaststarted, about the sheer volume
of people that were descendingon Dubai from all corners of the
world.
In my experience, you know alot of people come here and it
seems to be a two or three yeargig.
And does that affect you?
A with hiring the people thatyou want to take on full time
(21:12):
and then ensuring that you'vegot that freelance level of
quality as well available foryour clients?
James Mistry (21:18):
Let me be honest just because people are here
doesn't mean they're the rightpeople for the job.
And I think that, again, thatdepends on the approach that the
event agencies or governmentorganizations are taking.
Some of them want the bestperson available for the job
globally and don't mind payingwhat that is.
Other companies I'm not goingto name you, but you know who
(21:39):
you are, or all my team know whoyou are.
Other companies they'll hirethree site managers for a job
who will work 14 hours a day andall get paid pittance, whereas
another agency will hire onesite manager who'll work for 12
hours, will get twice as muchdone.
So I think there's, you knowit's how the agencies approach
(22:03):
staffing their projects is.
Once we know who we're workingwith and dealing with, then we
know what are the key aspectsfor them, basically delivery or
cost.
But I think, listen, globally,you've got amazing people
everywhere.
There's no shortage of people.
Of course, when it's sillyseason here, a lot of people get
pulled across.
So I think there's not ashortage of people.
(22:25):
How does it affect us when itgets busy?
We need to make sure that we'rekeeping the clients we have,
and have had for a long time,happy.
It's not just about bouncingaround and trying to put as many
people on site.
What have we learned?
You just throw a load of peopleon site who aren't right for
the job.
It just means they'll getremoved.
They will leave themselves.
(22:45):
It creates more problems.
So I think it's aboutsustainable business, both for
what we're doing and for ourclients, and I think, again,
that just comes with experience.
Ian Carless (22:56):
Yeah, I think that sort of leads on to the next
question, which is what are thesort of common mistakes that you
see clients sort of making overand over again, if you like?
I mean not just on the safetyside but, as you just alluded to
there, on the hiring side aswell?
You know, like you said, it'sall very well.
I mean, in some areas labor canbe inexpensive in this part of
the world.
But volume, as you said,doesn't necessarily equal
(23:19):
quality.
James Mistry (23:20):
I'm not sure how well this is going to go if I
start telling you why I think myclients are not good at what
they do, so I'll choose my wordswisely.
Let me change that slightly.
What do I find frustrating inthe industry that we're working
in and you know we're supplyingskilled people within safety,
within jam people what do I findfrustrating is companies that
(23:45):
hire the wrong people to thenmanage other people, companies
that are hiring inexperiencedpeople in what is very important
roles.
Some of the companies in theindustry.
They win these huge events.
They're then getting projectmanagers in, paying them 20,000
dirhams, where elsewhere you'dbe looking at 3,000 dirhams per
(24:05):
day minimum that these peopleshould be getting, bearing in
mind the budgets that you'retalking about, responsibility,
the vvi, the vip guests that aregoing to be there.
Yeah, so I'm all about givingpeople opportunity.
I'm all out, all about.
You know you should always bepushing working slightly outside
your comfort zone.
Kind of take that job on, callyour mate and work, you know,
(24:29):
and that's a delicate balance,but it goes too far.
And that's one thing is theamount of times.
If I look on the jam safetyside, we get dragged into ops
one because we enjoy it, butjust because we know what we're
doing, because the people whoare going to be managing us
don't really know that yeah,where does that come from them?
Ian Carless (24:48):
because I mean, I, I worked out in hong kong for
for many years, back in theearly 90s god show my age now
and I remember there was a.
There was a phrase when I livedout there called filth failed
in london, try hong kong 100.
If you flip that onto a sort ofpositive, uh, yeah, note.
Then what it meant was that andthis is what I liked about
(25:08):
living in Asia, and this existsin this part of the world as
well you get the opportunityhere and you got the opportunity
in Hong Kong.
You could come out and youcould say hi, I'm Ian.
Listen, I don't have a hugeamount of experience in whatever
field it is that I want to do,and oftentimes employers would
go do you All right, I'll giveyou a go, have a go, have three
(25:29):
months and then we'll see howyou get on.
Now, the result of that wasthat if you were good, you fly
and you fly very quickly.
The bad side of that was alsothat and to coin a phrase, shit
floats, and so there was quite afew people who get through who
(25:49):
really in other markets wouldn'thave done, and I think some of
that is perhaps down to justpeople doing due diligence, and
some of it is perhaps down topeople in those middle
management roles who are alsoperhaps a little bit beyond
their pay grade.
James Mistry (26:04):
I think with that it's also about what's your
availability of people.
So is it easier just to putthat guy in it or do I need to
pay another 20 grand plus flysomeone in, plus get their visa,
plus get their account?
Do you know what I mean?
So I think it's that balanceand essentially you're also
looking at like you've gotaccountants who are running a
(26:27):
lot of these jobs.
Now you've got commercial teamsthat are running the jobs, so
they don't really the troublesthat you'll have on the site.
They're not bothered about that.
That's the project managerstuff.
Yeah, I'm just here to make surethe bottom line works really
well, you know, but I think it's.
It's a lot easier to thrive andsurvive in the middle east than
(26:49):
it would be in the heart oflondon.
A hundred percent, yeah, butthat can be very dangerous at
the same time, you know, becauseyou've got people coming out
here giving it a go.
As I said, there's a delicatebalance there.
I'm all about people steppingup, but then it can go too far.
But again, for me it's on theevent management companies, it's
(27:09):
on companies like us.
We have to place the rightpeople in the right roles and it
is difficult placing people.
Even I'm a business owner.
Yeah, we have people full-time,who you know.
We take people on full-time allthe time.
I struggle, yeah, because Ireally believe and I understand
the agencies, the governmententities.
Anybody can get through a jobinterview.
(27:30):
Anyone can smile and do the.
You know I mean and you can.
You can get through a jobinterview.
Anyone can smile and do the.
You know what I mean and youcan.
You can get through that.
After one month the cracks areappearing a little bit.
Oh, I didn't realize it.
I thought it was okay, you know, I mean.
Yeah, after six weeks that likethey're either out the door or I
know yeah, they're out the doorbecause they've been found out
(27:50):
or I know they'll be with us forthree, four years, you know,
and that is difficult and ourclients even struggle with this
and like, didn't you do your duediligence?
And I'm like, well, it justcomes down to exactly that,
doesn't it due diligence?
Ian Carless (28:02):
and that was that was what I could ask you.
James Mistry (28:03):
How do you do your .
So we've done our due diligencein the same way.
So I'll answer that in onesecond.
Yeah, so we've done our duediligence as a company in the
same way that you, as the peoplehiring have also done your due
diligence, because you had threeinterviews with them.
They spoke to your hr, theyspoke to this, this, this.
But if the guy's a blagger andhe's got through and it's like
(28:24):
you know where does that end,where this and I guess what's
probably happening now, you cantell I'm getting heightened.
Yeah, it's, it's, that's astruggle.
Maybe this goes to your filththing about.
You know, like how, how fardoes blagging go?
That it's like doesn't you knowthat it goes too far?
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's asa company.
If I talk about jam people, wecan do our due diligence.
(28:47):
We can get references.
The events industry is quitesmall globally.
It's a mad thing to say, butusually if you've got people
who've got a good CV and they'veworked on certain events, you
can call people from thoseevents.
You can find out about them.
So it's like you can do yourdue diligence.
You've got another side to itthere, which is culture, which
(29:08):
is actually what's the personlike there's certain clients or
people you can't get on witheveryone yeah.
So you can have all the bestqualifications in the world yeah
.
But if you're jarring withsomeone all the time, it's just
not going to work.
How do you do that?
How deep as a staffing agencydo we need to go in
(29:29):
psychological profiling of ourclient?
Do we need to go inpsychological profiling of our
client?
To you know, it's like, yeah,hopefully one day we will reach
the point where we have enoughbudget to implement that.
You know, yeah.
Ian Carless (29:40):
I think you make a very good point.
I mean, I think that that sideof the personality side and the
temperament is super important.
I remember when I was in thetelevision production industry,
you know we'd have a lot ofpeople coming out to Southeast
Asia and you know, and back inthe UK or the US, wherever they
were from, I mean, they wereexperts in their field, they ran
productions like Clockwork.
(30:01):
But when they came out to theFar East they struggled and that
was like you say, that was downto culture and also down to the
fact that them not being ableto adapt, adapt to that culture
quite as as well as perhaps theythey should have done, because
things are done differently.
You, you can't get in front ofa southeast asian film crew and
ball them out to their face, notat least if you want them to
(30:23):
work again for the rest of thatproject anyway but you work that
stuff out, you know.
James Mistry (30:28):
I mean, you understand that.
And it's like every year webring people across from from
wherever, yeah, and it's liketheir first gig and you watch
them go through that process,yeah, where they stand, there go
.
This is absolutely mental.
Some of them they'll never comeback, others they get the bug
for it.
They understand it.
(30:49):
So, again, I think that comesdown to personality type and all
of that, but I think it's Imight get in trouble for this,
but it's like there's a certainamount of due diligence we can
do as a company.
Yes, there's a certain amountof due diligence you can do as
the client.
There's also you've got to suckit and see, and just you know,
I mean roll the dice and see ifit works, you know let's move on
(31:10):
to sa, to Saudi, because I knowSaudi is a big part of your
business at the moment.
Ian Carless (31:13):
You've got an office there.
Tell us about what you're doingthere and what's your
experience been about working inSaudi.
James Mistry (31:18):
You know, I moved here in 2017.
We were working in Saudi verysoon after that with you know,
as events started to happen, etc.
So I think for us, it's justpart of our normal business.
As I said, we've got afull-time team over there.
We're highly active.
I love Saudi.
Yeah, and this is a debateargument that I have with my
(31:41):
friends back home.
I love Saudi, I love what'sgoing on there.
I think it's so exciting.
It's you've got a young nationwho are happy to be educated,
who understand the opportunitiesthey have in front of them, and
there's some of the youngSaudis that we've employed full
time and have moved on to otherstuff and I'm like, dude, you're
(32:03):
going to be earning double whatI'm earning within the next
five, 10 years, because they'rebright, they're on it, they
understand it and it's like thatstuff's exciting.
Man, you don't see thatanywhere else.
Yeah, saudi is great.
It's insane.
Ian Carless (32:15):
It was more insane five years ago, seven years ago,
but for me personally, saudi isexciting yeah I think any
conversation around safety justto go full circle would be
remiss if we didn't mention sortof mental health and things
like that.
It's just become such animportant facet of life.
You know, full stop.
(32:35):
Obviously the event industry,as you say.
People don't get into itthinking, oh, you know, I'll do
this instead of being a, youknow, a merchant banker.
With it comes a huge level ofstress and work.
How much of that conversationaround mental health now is also
part of the work that you do inthe sort of health and safety
area I would say it's, it's atthe forefront a lot more and I
(33:00):
think it's so.
James Mistry (33:00):
On the jam training side, we deliver mental
health courses there.
Yeah, so it's interesting tosee when we're talking to our
clients who, when we mentionthat, go.
That's really interesting.
Maybe it's something we shouldlook at and others that it's not
a consideration.
Yeah, what's also interestingis is some of our clients we've
spoken to about it and they'relike all of our team have mental
(33:21):
health qualifications.
They have all the systems andprocesses in place already.
Yeah, I think there's a shift,if you will.
Yeah, so when I was younger andgrowing up, 12 hour days back
to back 30 days absolute badgeof pride, yeah, and I just
absolutely love it and you werea hero and it was, and maybe
that's just being 25 and likeyou know, I mean, when you're
(33:43):
older, you're like that justsounds miserable.
Yeah, but I think it's.
There is a bit of a change nowand I think it's also not even
just for the people on site, butfor people in offices, yeah,
people who are part of thatevent ecosystem and it's like
internally, our office teamshave a tough time six to eight
(34:03):
months a year and it's like it'sup to me as a business owner
how do we caveat that?
And it's not as easy as that.
I just go, we'll hire a loadmore people, what it takes three
months to train them tounderstand what we do.
So it's a delicate balance, butI think being aware of it is
something we can do.
I think it's it's a positivechange that people are now aware
(34:25):
of that.
I think again, personallyspeaking, yeah, 10 years ago you
said to me mental health I'd belike dude, you're in the wrong
industry.
Whereas now it's like for allof my team and I'm talking about
the teams on the ground and inthe office if we can maintain
their mental health, theydeliver more productive, quicker
, they're happier.
(34:45):
You know, I mean.
So I think there's a lot ofwork to be done there, but I
think it's positive that it'sthe conversations are happening
and moving in the rightdirection.
It'd be interesting to seewhere that is in five years,
because it's like, just becausethe events industry has always
been mental long hours and allthat, is that all right, is that
like?
Is you know?
Ian Carless (35:07):
I mean OK, yeah, know, I mean okay yeah yeah, so
like.
James Mistry (35:10):
However, I'd love to see the day where this has
only happened on a couple ofsites where, instead of you're
looking at like two 12 hourshifts where they've gone three
shifts of eight hours, so you'vejust increased your um what's
it called cost by 33 on all ofthat labor transport, you know.
So, yeah, let's do this againin five years and we'll uh,
(35:31):
we'll see.
We'll see where we're at thenBefore we wrap up.
Ian Carless (35:33):
I've got a couple of quick fire questions for you.
Let's go.
Here we go.
Biggest on-site challengeyou've ever faced.
James Mistry (35:39):
Biggest on-site challenge.
One of our clients was tryingto make napalm on site and
didn't realize it was napalm.
It took us two days to talkthem down and threatening to put
all of our team on a plane.
Ian Carless (35:53):
That was a fun one yeah, napalm, that's a good one.
Yeah, one thing you'd ban atevents if you could one thing I
would ban at events.
James Mistry (36:01):
I'm gonna have to take time because there's.
I'd probably get in trouble ifI answered that straight away.
Uh, listen, it'd be good to seemore like no phone zones at the
concerts and all of this,because that's kind of ruining
it.
It's a bit of an obvious answer.
Most underrated event role.
Ian Carless (36:19):
Most underrated the purse lose gets the least
thanks, but it's one of thebiggest jobs the radio shack guy
, man, the radio, or maybethat's just the.
James Mistry (36:29):
I like that role because you can just sit in the
same place all day.
It's quite low pressure,underrated.
It's got to be the safety guyevery time, man yeah.
Ian Carless (36:38):
Okay, one thing clients should do before they
book your services.
James Mistry (36:43):
Just think about why they're calling us and what
they want from it.
Yeah, yeah, simple as that, andthat will help us service them
better.
Yeah, before, as simple as thatand that will help us service
them better.
Yeah, before we wrap up, what'snext for you?
What's next for me?
There's lots of things.
Listen.
Jam's my passion.
I've got two kids.
This this was my first, though.
Yeah, so I've got three kids,so it's like I'm excited about
(37:04):
what the next two to five yearsof jam will bring.
Yeah, with what's happening inthe gcc and globally, it's
really exciting.
There's that.
There's other things I want tolook at.
I think that's a pub chat, nota podcast chat, but it's
exciting.
The future for the team thatwe've built at JAM, it's
(37:25):
exciting.
Ian Carless (37:26):
And finally, we've asked all our guests this, just
to wrap up the podcast with youmust be a music fan.
I know I am Okay.
What's on your playlist at themoment?
Playlist Where's my phone, man?
James Mistry (37:39):
What's on the playlist, Listen.
It's everything from drum andbass, grime, UK hip hop, house,
reggae, et cetera, et cetera.
So a little bit of everything,yeah.
Ian Carless (37:50):
Brilliant.
James Mistry (37:54):
James, thanks very much for joining us on the
podcast.
Ian Carless (37:57):
Been a pleasure, man.
Thanks very much.
Event News DXP is brought toyou by Warehouse 4, dubai's best
independent event venue, andMinus Fortified DB, the team
transforming noisy event spacesinto slick, sound-reduced
environments.
It was presented by myself, ianCarlos, the studio engineer and
(38:17):
editor was Roy DeMonte, theexecutive producer was myself
and Joe Morrison, and thispodcast was produced by W4
Podcast Studio Dubai, and if youhaven't done so already, please
do click that follow orsubscribe button.
See you next time.
Thank you.
Lead or part of an in-houseteam.
I hope that this podcast givesyou some practical takeaways,
fresh perspectives and a deeperunderstanding of how things
really get done in one of theworld's most fast-moving event
markets.
And for season two, I'm superpleased to let you know that
Event News DXB is brought to youby Warehouse 4, dubai's best
(00:40):
independent event venue, andMinus45DB, the team transforming
noisy event spaces into slick,sound-reduced environments, from
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Minus 45 dB builds modularspaces that are quiet,
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And they're sustainable tooSmart design with zero waste.
(01:04):
Check them out at minus45dbcom.
In this week's episode, I'mjoined by James Mystery, founder
of JAM Event Services, who'splayed a big part in shaping how
we think about safety, staffingand training across the event
industry here in the UAE andSaudi Arabia.
Across the event industry herein the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
(01:26):
We talk about how JAM hasevolved from a one-man
production and safety gig into atrusted name across the region,
and how that growth was drivennot by a master plan but by
listening to what clientsactually needed, whether it's
crowd management, mental healthawareness or placing the right
people in the right roles.
James brings a brutally honestand no BS perspective to how
(01:47):
things work in the Middle East.
So if you've ever worked a14-hour shift, juggled on-site
chaos, or been thrown in thedeep end and expected to swim,
you'll probably relate to thisepisode.
Let's get into it into it.
(02:07):
You're listening to the EventNews DXB podcast, james.
James Mistry (02:13):
Welcome to the podcast Ian, thank you for the
invite.
Ian Carless (02:19):
Yeah, we finally get there.
It took a while, but here weare.
A few weeks in the making, buthere we are.
Let's just jump straight intoit, shall we?
How did you end up in Dubai?
And, more importantly, how didyou end up?
James Mistry (02:25):
in events.
Let me go with the secondquestion.
First, how did I end up inevents?
I always wanted to work inevents.
I always thought it was cooland one day I basically did a
course while I was sat in myparents' house and then moved to
London and started doing events.
So I started from the ground upup, which people would have
(02:47):
heard me say before, but I thinkit's the only way you should do
it.
Yeah, so I was local crew.
I was building stages, lightingrigs, troughs, sound systems,
and it could be argued that wasone of the happiest happiest
times of my event career.
To be honest, because you do it.
You'd smash it out for 12 hoursand then you'd walk away from it
and go home and not think aboutit absolutely um so, yeah,
(03:11):
that's how I got into events andthen, I guess probably like
most people, it grew from there,so started off as local crew.
Then I started doing artistliaison, did the whole festival
scene in the uk, then productionmanagement project, production
safety, and here I am now.
Yeah, so what brought you outhere?
So me and what's now my wife,were in London for 10 years.
(03:35):
Every weekend, most nights,we'd go to the pub every weekend
, we just party and we justthought, listen, we might turn
around and we'll be 60 and we'llstill be doing this.
Yeah, so we were like, let's do.
When I say we, I mean my wife,of course no, so we were like
listen, let's do somethingdifferent.
So we looked with the skillsthat we had and what we could
(03:57):
doing, where could we go?
Dubai was on the map.
My what's now?
My wife got a job here.
That fell through.
I got a job here.
We moved out here the job I had.
I was only there for two weeksbecause it didn't match what I
was looking for.
They're now my client I won'tsay who it is, but bigger.
(04:17):
So, yeah, that's kind of whatbrought us out here.
And then the last eight yearshas been pretty exciting, yeah.
Ian Carless (04:26):
Which probably leads us right up to where you
are now, doesn't it, jam?
Yeah, how did that come intofruition?
James Mistry (04:32):
So, as I said, I moved out here.
I was head of production forone of the agencies.
It was they're a small agencyand a couple of weeks in it just
didn't really sit with what Iwanted and where I thought they
could go.
They're an amazing company now,by the way.
They were back then.
So then I kind of started doinga bit of freelancing.
(04:53):
I was a production managerthat's what was my trade, if you
will, but I had my health andsafety qualifications.
I took those to be a betterproduction manager.
Yeah, I started doing a bit ofsafety stuff and then, I think,
naturally, once I was out here,there was a bit of a gap in the
market and started running atthat.
So the company was firstincorporated as Jam Productions.
(05:14):
We moved that across to JamEvent Services and then,
naturally, that's kind of webecame the safety guys of Dubai.
That's what we were kind ofknown as.
And then from there we keptgetting asked for more by our
clients, which is how jam peoplehappened.
Because people, because we werestill going out as production
managers, a small team of us, sothat's kind of how jam people
(05:37):
the freelancers, perm, hires,events, staffing that's how that
grew.
And then, yeah, a couple ofyears ago, jam training, which
again was born from the want andneeds of our clients.
If we look at, a huge amount ofwhat we do is in Saudi.
It's 70% of the populationthere are under 35.
They didn't have events fiveyears ago.
They want to get into it.
(05:58):
That's where jam training fitsin.
So natural progression from allof it.
Yeah.
Ian Carless (06:03):
And we'll come on shortly to talk about jam people
and jam training.
I just want to stick with thesafety thing to begin with.
Look for the layman out there.
I think of event safety and Ithink of crowd control barriers,
and maybe there's an ambulanceparked at the entrance somewhere
.
There's obviously a lot more toit than that there's a little
bit more, yeah, so give us arundown.
And secondly, actually the firstpart of the question is so when
(06:25):
you moved out here, yeah, whatwas your perception of the
safety industry around events?
I mean, I've been here for 22years now and I think I wouldn't
be going too far out of thedeep end if I said that when I
moved out here, yeah, crowdsafety or any kind of safety
events or you know, and withinproduction and many industries
was it a nice to have if youwanted it, but not necessarily a
(06:49):
must have.
That's obviously changed.
So what was your perception?
James Mistry (06:53):
What was my perception is absolute insanity,
I think was the.
Why am I not surprised?
Yeah, absolute insanity.
But listen, everyone goes intoevents because they like events.
Yeah, if people want it andwanted a nine to five, they'll
go and get a nine to five.
People want to earn as muchmoney as possible.
You never meet someone you go.
Why were you into events?
I wanted to.
(07:13):
I didn't want to be aninvestment banker.
I thought I'd make more moneydoing events.
You do events.
It comes from passion everyone.
So that's my opinion anyway.
Yeah, so I think it's uh, backto kind of where you were going.
One of the first big events Iworked on was um, mother of the
nation, and I was literallybrought in as a safety advisor
(07:33):
under a guy called bruno marx,who is very well known, and it
was just to look after one standand it was just.
It was insanity because you'rejust.
It was like herding cats and Ithink in the uae it's not as
much like that anymore.
There's still a hell of a lotof companies that are, but
generally speaking, the levelsstandards have gone up a lot.
(07:54):
But now I understand a lot morethe levels of safety here
across the gcc saudi.
It's all to do with training,it's all to do with education.
It's not because people aretrying to fight against it, if
you will, but now we understandthat it's like a lot of the
people who are working on theseevent sites never had that
(08:15):
education, so they don't know abetter way to do it.
So you can hit them with astick and shout with them as
much as you want that's notliterally with a stick, because
you're not allowed to as youwant.
That's not literally with astick, because you're not
allowed to do that, by the way,but nothing's going to change
there.
So it kind of comes down toeducation, yeah, so when you
were thinking about starting jam.
Ian Carless (08:35):
What was it that you identified?
What was the area where youthought you god, I gotta do
something about this.
James Mistry (08:40):
We, you know do you know what?
Being honest, I don't thinkthere wasn't.
You know, this was me eightyears ago, so I was in my early
30s.
I wasn't, like you know,calling greta thunberg on the
weekend and working out what theproblems were and how we can
solve the solutions.
It wasn't as deep as that.
Yeah, it's like, let's behonest, I just moved across to
(09:01):
dubai.
I was trying to find my find myway within the events world, so
I think it was about utilizingthe skills I had and then, as
things move forward, as Istarted to meet more companies,
as I started to see more of theopportunity I would say jam was
born then, so jam was probablyaround before the the deep
(09:22):
vision and goals and objectivesthat we have now, you know, and
that comes years after years.
And it's like, you know, as afounder as well.
It's like I was a freelancerback in the day.
You know, you're not like 21years old and you're like, oh,
I'm actually a, I'm a thoughtleadership specialist.
It's like that's all bullshit,man.
It's like I was a freelancer.
(09:43):
You're kind of working stuffout.
As you go through, as you getolder, you make a load of
mistakes.
You try and not do those again.
So I think it's yeah, withoutgoing too deep of my vision for
the.
You know, when I was 21 yearsold, we're a lot wiser now.
Let's just say thatno-transcript.
(10:10):
I think you know when we'retalking about jam safety, it's
event safety and it's crowdmanagement.
And like what are thoseelements?
Event safety any stakeholderwho's basically involved.
It's about public safety andrelating to the safety of that,
yeah, yeah.
So any stakeholder, anyonewho's involved.
Crowd management crowdmanagement to us as a company is
(10:33):
ingress, circulation and egressof large amounts of people.
If you're talking about, inSaudi Arabia, crowd management
is often considered hostessesand ushers that play a part in
that.
But for us we take a more kindof UK thought process on what
crowd management is.
So I think there's those twoelements you know.
(10:53):
So usually on the jam safetyside, we're engaged for both or
for one of those elements.
I think what's important for usis when we get a call, we just
try and find out from the clientwhy are they calling us?
Yeah, they're calling usbecause they and find out from
the client why are they callingus?
Yeah, they're calling usbecause they've been told they
have to.
They're calling us because theywant to run a good event.
They're calling us because theyunderstand how important safety
(11:15):
is for the overall operation,which means everyone there will
have a great time and the outputand the media will echo that.
So I think for us it's firstoff, why are you calling us?
How can we help you?
The amount of calls we get fromsaudi going I need safety and
we go fantastic stage one.
What do you need?
I need safety.
Cool, we're still at stage one,you know so it's.
(11:37):
But listen, that's part of ourjob.
It's about well, you're back tothe education and training yeah,
but it's about like working outwhat do you need, and sometimes
they don't know what they needand that's cool, we can help
them with that.
So a bit of navigating thatgoes with it, yeah.
Ian Carless (11:51):
How much has the industry changed with regard to
that?
With clients, I want to saythat probably when you got off
the boat then it was a bit of anice to have, or yeah, let's
just not bother with that andhope for the best.
And how much of that haschanged now?
How many of your clients areactually coming to you knowing
that this has to be an integralpart of their operation?
James Mistry (12:11):
I would say, as I said before, eight years.
We've been here now, yeah, andwe've been operating in saudi
for seven years as well.
So I think it's basically expowas the?
Was the turning point, if youwill.
So it's like, as I said, whenwe got here it was pretty rogue.
Now that's a staple in 90% ofthe events.
Safety is a critical element in90% of the events that get
(12:34):
delivered in Dubai and I thinkthere's also forwarded on by the
companies in our ecosystem.
By companies, I mean eventagencies and the production
houses that they use.
So, like an early adopter, backin the day, evolution, I
remember Caroline and David very, very early on, one of our
first long-term clients, if youwill.
They basically turned aroundand were like we will have an
(12:57):
event safety representative onevery single event.
They were one of the first todo that and that was them
basically putting their company.
They were basically sayingthat's one of the ways we can
differentiate ourselves.
Yeah.
Then you've got all of theglobal agencies Jack Morton,
imagination, blah, blah.
They're bound by what they needto do globally.
So they were, you know, earlyadopters and have been doing it
(13:18):
for a long time.
So I think there was a slowshift and now it's in a really
good place here.
Saudi is going through the samething.
I don't need to harbor thepoint that event safety in saudi
is less advanced than here.
We all know that.
Yeah, but they're getting itand more and more of the
(13:39):
agencies out there understand itand the government entities
which are passing their jobsdown.
You know it's built into moreof the rfps, so exactly the same
as it was here, but, yeah, abit more wild west in the um in
saudi, of course how much of acatalyst was covid in terms of
event safety.
I don't know how much.
I think I mean there's no rightanswer.
Ian Carless (14:02):
It might it might not have been you know.
James Mistry (14:03):
No, I think it's event safety.
Covid covid was was funny yeah.
And it was probably noteveryone will have that approach
to it, but COVID was Funny.
Peculiar as opposed to probablyhard, yeah peculiar is probably
the thanks for pulling me out ofthat one.
You know, we were an eventsafety company and then COVID
(14:24):
hit and our clients are turningaround and being like what do we
do?
And it's like we haven't dealtwith many global pandemics.
And, of course, we can do theresearch.
People go to school for 20, 20years to learn about things like
this.
Yeah, we can't become an expertin a few days, you know.
It just doesn't really worklike that.
So I think it brought in a lotof different control measures
(14:46):
that we had to try and play with.
But I think it's for me eventsafety and COVID.
They were slightly differentand COVID-19 became a section in
event safety management plans.
It's no longer in it for us.
We took that out a while ago.
Ian Carless (15:01):
Now moving on.
Obviously you've now got JAMpeople and JAM training.
Tell us about the peopleelement people and jam training.
James Mistry (15:11):
Yeah, tell us about the people element
essentially.
Yeah, we for a long time we'vebeen known as as the safety.
You know, jam safety is verywell known across the gcc.
You know, a few years ago westarted jam people.
As I said, born from the wantof our clients, that's grown.
Now they're essentially threecompanies under one jam roof, if
you will.
So jam people, we've gotfreelancers, permanent and then
event staffing as well.
It's good, it's hardcore, it'syeah three.
(15:34):
Three businesses is a lot, youknow, especially when they're
all set in the same office butthey all complement each other.
You know, that's the wholething is you need all of these
services when you're deliveringevents.
Clients want to come to atrusted provider who can give
them more than one servicerather than having to break it
up.
So Jam People is, for me,probably the most exciting part
(15:54):
of the business at the moment.
There's amazing stuff going onthere.
We've got an amazing team splitacross Riyadh and Dubai.
So, yeah, it's very exciting.
I'll just say that.
Ian Carless (16:07):
How do you get around the whole staffing issue
for events?
I mean, clearly you knowthere's only so many people you
have on the books full time.
You know the freelance industryhere in Dubai whilst it's got
much, much, much better,obviously, and there is a
freelance industry now, you knowI can go back not so many years
and there just wasn't theopportunity for freelancing.
(16:27):
How has that changed and how doyou manage that element of your
business?
James Mistry (16:32):
Listen, I think it's let's talk openly yeah, and
it's.
There's a number of companiesdo this Event Lab with a start
big up to Nadeem.
He's done an amazing job.
Where that company is now, youknow, there's a number of
companies that do what we do.
What makes us different for meis quality and customer service
and is the level of service thatpeople get.
(16:53):
Do you get that from the othercompanies?
I don't know, I don't work withthem, but the whole idea of
everything that comes out of Jamis quality.
We stamped our name on theindustry with Jam Safety and
it's like what we do in thatspace is important and it's
critical, especially for thesize and scale of events that
we're working on.
Yeah, we wanted that same levelof accuracy, of quality, to go
(17:16):
into Jam People, to go into JamTraining.
So I think with Jam People,there's a number of providers
out there.
Do they all deliver as well aswe do?
I don't know.
Let the clients answer that.
You know, I think withdifferent companies in that
(17:36):
space as well, they've gotdifferent ideas and objectives
and targets and all of that.
What's important for us?
Do what we do, do what we doreally well, I think with the
freelance market.
It's great, it's buoyant,there's a lot going on, there's
a lot of people that get pulledacross from Europe and globally
and it's it's an exciting timefor freelanc pulled across from
Europe and globally, and it's anexciting time for freelancers
as far as I'm concerned, becausewhat's going on in Saudi Arabia
at the moment?
It's insane, it's crazy.
(17:57):
No one's spending money likethat.
No one's putting on gigs likethat.
So it's an exciting time tolearn and grow.
We want to facilitate that.
It's like if I put myself backto being a freelancer, what did
I want 20 years ago?
Wanted to work on cool gigs,man.
This is why I'm doing it.
I either want to earn goodmoney on them or I want to be
(18:18):
educated and I want to be aroundcool stuff and we have to
facilitate that.
Like what's Jam's job.
What's Jam people's job is tomake sure that we're working
with the best clients.
We're making sure that we'reworking with clients that care,
and that's on us, that's not onthe freelancer.
Ian Carless (18:33):
Yeah, Do you think you'd have been able to run this
side of the business, say, 10years ago?
Hell, no.
James Mistry (18:38):
Hell, no, not at all.
Why?
Because I think it's naturalprogression and I think it's,
you know, just with jam training.
It's about a year and a halfold, something like that.
It's like we're growing andwe're learning as we're moving
forward and we're seeingopportunities.
I've got two or three otherbusinesses I want to do and you
know the wife's like yeah, yeah,cool, just chill out a bit.
(18:59):
It's, you know and it's, butit's about it's, it's about
timing, it's about understanding.
With Jam People, I've hiredsome amazing people who are very
, who have got great experiencein this space, have got great
experience in the global eventspace, to help us position
ourselves for the things we wantto be working on.
Yeah, could I have done it 10years ago?
(19:21):
No, I wouldn't want it tobecause my focus was elsewhere.
Jam wasn't even.
I was like 10 years ago, whatwas I doing?
Trying to get paid, man, tryingto get paid, trying to make it
till the end of the month.
Ian Carless (19:30):
Yeah, let's just quickly talk about just doing
business in the UAE overall,because obviously you've come
over from the UK.
How easy, shall we say, or howdifficult has it been to
initially set up the businessand then also scale it to the
level that you're obviouslyrunning at right now?
James Mistry (19:48):
I guess the honest answer is I've got nothing to
compare it to.
Yeah, so I don't.
You know, I can have a littlepity party and say how hard it's
been and all this, but it'slike the honest answer to that I
absolutely love it, like I lovethe hustle, I love the insanity
, I love the madness.
I'm getting a bit older now soI don't love it as much as I
(20:08):
used to, but five years ago, Ithrive off that stuff.
I live and breathe it.
You know, that's why I loveSaudi so much, because it's the.
You get one phone call and itcan lead to you know well, it
can lead to a lot of trouble,but it can lead to a lot of good
things.
So I think it's easy to set upbusinesses here now.
It's easy to set up businesseshere now.
It's a lot easier in Saudi.
(20:29):
I think what you have to haveis the passion You've got to.
How has Jam got where it istoday?
Probably just through the sheeramount of time that I've put
into it.
Ian Carless (20:41):
You talked about quality earlier in relation to
staffing.
Obviously, we were talking offcamera, weren't we?
Or, just before the podcaststarted, about the sheer volume
of people that were descendingon Dubai from all corners of the
world.
In my experience, you know alot of people come here and it
seems to be a two or three yeargig.
And does that affect you?
A with hiring the people thatyou want to take on full time
(21:12):
and then ensuring that you'vegot that freelance level of
quality as well available foryour clients?
James Mistry (21:18):
Let me be honest just because people are here
doesn't mean they're the rightpeople for the job.
And I think that, again, thatdepends on the approach that the
event agencies or governmentorganizations are taking.
Some of them want the bestperson available for the job
globally and don't mind payingwhat that is.
Other companies I'm not goingto name you, but you know who
(21:39):
you are, or all my team know whoyou are.
Other companies they'll hirethree site managers for a job
who will work 14 hours a day andall get paid pittance, whereas
another agency will hire onesite manager who'll work for 12
hours, will get twice as muchdone.
So I think there's, you knowit's how the agencies approach
(22:03):
staffing their projects is.
Once we know who we're workingwith and dealing with, then we
know what are the key aspectsfor them, basically delivery or
cost.
But I think, listen, globally,you've got amazing people
everywhere.
There's no shortage of people.
Of course, when it's sillyseason here, a lot of people get
pulled across.
So I think there's not ashortage of people.
(22:25):
How does it affect us when itgets busy?
We need to make sure that we'rekeeping the clients we have,
and have had for a long time,happy.
It's not just about bouncingaround and trying to put as many
people on site.
What have we learned?
You just throw a load of peopleon site who aren't right for
the job.
It just means they'll getremoved.
They will leave themselves.
(22:45):
It creates more problems.
So I think it's aboutsustainable business, both for
what we're doing and for ourclients, and I think, again,
that just comes with experience.
Ian Carless (22:56):
Yeah, I think that sort of leads on to the next
question, which is what are thesort of common mistakes that you
see clients sort of making overand over again, if you like?
I mean not just on the safetyside but, as you just alluded to
there, on the hiring side aswell?
You know, like you said, it'sall very well.
I mean, in some areas labor canbe inexpensive in this part of
the world.
But volume, as you said,doesn't necessarily equal
(23:19):
quality.
James Mistry (23:20):
I'm not sure how well this is going to go if I
start telling you why I think myclients are not good at what
they do, so I'll choose my wordswisely.
Let me change that slightly.
What do I find frustrating inthe industry that we're working
in and you know we're supplyingskilled people within safety,
within jam people what do I findfrustrating is companies that
(23:45):
hire the wrong people to thenmanage other people, companies
that are hiring inexperiencedpeople in what is very important
roles.
Some of the companies in theindustry.
They win these huge events.
They're then getting projectmanagers in, paying them 20,000
dirhams, where elsewhere you'dbe looking at 3,000 dirhams per
(24:05):
day minimum that these peopleshould be getting, bearing in
mind the budgets that you'retalking about, responsibility,
the vvi, the vip guests that aregoing to be there.
Yeah, so I'm all about givingpeople opportunity.
I'm all out, all about.
You know you should always bepushing working slightly outside
your comfort zone.
Kind of take that job on, callyour mate and work, you know,
(24:29):
and that's a delicate balance,but it goes too far.
And that's one thing is theamount of times.
If I look on the jam safetyside, we get dragged into ops
one because we enjoy it, butjust because we know what we're
doing, because the people whoare going to be managing us
don't really know that yeah,where does that come from them?
Ian Carless (24:48):
because I mean, I, I worked out in hong kong for
for many years, back in theearly 90s god show my age now
and I remember there was a.
There was a phrase when I livedout there called filth failed
in london, try hong kong 100.
If you flip that onto a sort ofpositive, uh, yeah, note.
Then what it meant was that andthis is what I liked about
(25:08):
living in Asia, and this existsin this part of the world as
well you get the opportunityhere and you got the opportunity
in Hong Kong.
You could come out and youcould say hi, I'm Ian.
Listen, I don't have a hugeamount of experience in whatever
field it is that I want to do,and oftentimes employers would
go do you All right, I'll giveyou a go, have a go, have three
(25:29):
months and then we'll see howyou get on.
Now, the result of that wasthat if you were good, you fly
and you fly very quickly.
The bad side of that was alsothat and to coin a phrase, shit
floats, and so there was quite afew people who get through who
(25:49):
really in other markets wouldn'thave done, and I think some of
that is perhaps down to justpeople doing due diligence, and
some of it is perhaps down topeople in those middle
management roles who are alsoperhaps a little bit beyond
their pay grade.
James Mistry (26:04):
I think with that it's also about what's your
availability of people.
So is it easier just to putthat guy in it or do I need to
pay another 20 grand plus flysomeone in, plus get their visa,
plus get their account?
Do you know what I mean?
So I think it's that balanceand essentially you're also
looking at like you've gotaccountants who are running a
(26:27):
lot of these jobs.
Now you've got commercial teamsthat are running the jobs, so
they don't really the troublesthat you'll have on the site.
They're not bothered about that.
That's the project managerstuff.
Yeah, I'm just here to make surethe bottom line works really
well, you know, but I think it's.
It's a lot easier to thrive andsurvive in the middle east than
(26:49):
it would be in the heart oflondon.
A hundred percent, yeah, butthat can be very dangerous at
the same time, you know, becauseyou've got people coming out
here giving it a go.
As I said, there's a delicatebalance there.
I'm all about people steppingup, but then it can go too far.
But again, for me it's on theevent management companies, it's
(27:09):
on companies like us.
We have to place the rightpeople in the right roles and it
is difficult placing people.
Even I'm a business owner.
Yeah, we have people full-time,who you know.
We take people on full-time allthe time.
I struggle, yeah, because Ireally believe and I understand
the agencies, the governmententities.
Anybody can get through a jobinterview.
(27:30):
Anyone can smile and do the.
You know I mean and you can.
You can get through a jobinterview.
Anyone can smile and do the.
You know what I mean and youcan.
You can get through that.
After one month the cracks areappearing a little bit.
Oh, I didn't realize it.
I thought it was okay, you know, I mean.
Yeah, after six weeks that likethey're either out the door or I
know yeah, they're out the doorbecause they've been found out
(27:50):
or I know they'll be with us forthree, four years, you know,
and that is difficult and ourclients even struggle with this
and like, didn't you do your duediligence?
And I'm like, well, it justcomes down to exactly that,
doesn't it due diligence?
Ian Carless (28:02):
and that was that was what I could ask you.
James Mistry (28:03):
How do you do your .
So we've done our due diligencein the same way.
So I'll answer that in onesecond.
Yeah, so we've done our duediligence as a company in the
same way that you, as the peoplehiring have also done your due
diligence, because you had threeinterviews with them.
They spoke to your hr, theyspoke to this, this, this.
But if the guy's a blagger andhe's got through and it's like
(28:24):
you know where does that end,where this and I guess what's
probably happening now, you cantell I'm getting heightened.
Yeah, it's, it's, that's astruggle.
Maybe this goes to your filththing about.
You know, like how, how fardoes blagging go?
That it's like doesn't you knowthat it goes too far?
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's asa company.
If I talk about jam people, wecan do our due diligence.
(28:47):
We can get references.
The events industry is quitesmall globally.
It's a mad thing to say, butusually if you've got people
who've got a good CV and they'veworked on certain events, you
can call people from thoseevents.
You can find out about them.
So it's like you can do yourdue diligence.
You've got another side to itthere, which is culture, which
(29:08):
is actually what's the personlike there's certain clients or
people you can't get on witheveryone yeah.
So you can have all the bestqualifications in the world yeah
.
But if you're jarring withsomeone all the time, it's just
not going to work.
How do you do that?
How deep as a staffing agencydo we need to go in
(29:29):
psychological profiling of ourclient?
Do we need to go inpsychological profiling of our
client?
To you know, it's like, yeah,hopefully one day we will reach
the point where we have enoughbudget to implement that.
You know, yeah.
Ian Carless (29:40):
I think you make a very good point.
I mean, I think that that sideof the personality side and the
temperament is super important.
I remember when I was in thetelevision production industry,
you know we'd have a lot ofpeople coming out to Southeast
Asia and you know, and back inthe UK or the US, wherever they
were from, I mean, they wereexperts in their field, they ran
productions like Clockwork.
(30:01):
But when they came out to theFar East they struggled and that
was like you say, that was downto culture and also down to the
fact that them not being ableto adapt, adapt to that culture
quite as as well as perhaps theythey should have done, because
things are done differently.
You, you can't get in front ofa southeast asian film crew and
ball them out to their face, notat least if you want them to
(30:23):
work again for the rest of thatproject anyway but you work that
stuff out, you know.
James Mistry (30:28):
I mean, you understand that.
And it's like every year webring people across from from
wherever, yeah, and it's liketheir first gig and you watch
them go through that process,yeah, where they stand, there go
.
This is absolutely mental.
Some of them they'll never comeback, others they get the bug
for it.
They understand it.
(30:49):
So, again, I think that comesdown to personality type and all
of that, but I think it's Imight get in trouble for this,
but it's like there's a certainamount of due diligence we can
do as a company.
Yes, there's a certain amountof due diligence you can do as
the client.
There's also you've got to suckit and see, and just you know,
I mean roll the dice and see ifit works, you know let's move on
(31:10):
to sa, to Saudi, because I knowSaudi is a big part of your
business at the moment.
Ian Carless (31:13):
You've got an office there.
Tell us about what you're doingthere and what's your
experience been about working inSaudi.
James Mistry (31:18):
You know, I moved here in 2017.
We were working in Saudi verysoon after that with you know,
as events started to happen, etc.
So I think for us, it's justpart of our normal business.
As I said, we've got afull-time team over there.
We're highly active.
I love Saudi.
Yeah, and this is a debateargument that I have with my
(31:41):
friends back home.
I love Saudi, I love what'sgoing on there.
I think it's so exciting.
It's you've got a young nationwho are happy to be educated,
who understand the opportunitiesthey have in front of them, and
there's some of the youngSaudis that we've employed full
time and have moved on to otherstuff and I'm like, dude, you're
(32:03):
going to be earning double whatI'm earning within the next
five, 10 years, because they'rebright, they're on it, they
understand it and it's like thatstuff's exciting.
Man, you don't see thatanywhere else.
Yeah, saudi is great.
It's insane.
Ian Carless (32:15):
It was more insane five years ago, seven years ago,
but for me personally, saudi isexciting yeah I think any
conversation around safety justto go full circle would be
remiss if we didn't mention sortof mental health and things
like that.
It's just become such animportant facet of life.
You know, full stop.
(32:35):
Obviously the event industry,as you say.
People don't get into itthinking, oh, you know, I'll do
this instead of being a, youknow, a merchant banker.
With it comes a huge level ofstress and work.
How much of that conversationaround mental health now is also
part of the work that you do inthe sort of health and safety
area I would say it's, it's atthe forefront a lot more and I
(33:00):
think it's so.
James Mistry (33:00):
On the jam training side, we deliver mental
health courses there.
Yeah, so it's interesting tosee when we're talking to our
clients who, when we mentionthat, go.
That's really interesting.
Maybe it's something we shouldlook at and others that it's not
a consideration.
Yeah, what's also interestingis is some of our clients we've
spoken to about it and they'relike all of our team have mental
(33:21):
health qualifications.
They have all the systems andprocesses in place already.
Yeah, I think there's a shift,if you will.
Yeah, so when I was younger andgrowing up, 12 hour days back
to back 30 days absolute badgeof pride, yeah, and I just
absolutely love it and you werea hero and it was, and maybe
that's just being 25 and likeyou know, I mean, when you're
(33:43):
older, you're like that justsounds miserable.
Yeah, but I think it's.
There is a bit of a change nowand I think it's also not even
just for the people on site, butfor people in offices, yeah,
people who are part of thatevent ecosystem and it's like
internally, our office teamshave a tough time six to eight
(34:03):
months a year and it's like it'sup to me as a business owner
how do we caveat that?
And it's not as easy as that.
I just go, we'll hire a loadmore people, what it takes three
months to train them tounderstand what we do.
So it's a delicate balance, butI think being aware of it is
something we can do.
I think it's it's a positivechange that people are now aware
(34:25):
of that.
I think again, personallyspeaking, yeah, 10 years ago you
said to me mental health I'd belike dude, you're in the wrong
industry.
Whereas now it's like for allof my team and I'm talking about
the teams on the ground and inthe office if we can maintain
their mental health, theydeliver more productive, quicker
, they're happier.
(34:45):
You know, I mean.
So I think there's a lot ofwork to be done there, but I
think it's positive that it'sthe conversations are happening
and moving in the rightdirection.
It'd be interesting to seewhere that is in five years,
because it's like, just becausethe events industry has always
been mental long hours and allthat, is that all right, is that
like?
Is you know?
Ian Carless (35:07):
I mean OK, yeah, know, I mean okay yeah yeah, so
like.
James Mistry (35:10):
However, I'd love to see the day where this has
only happened on a couple ofsites where, instead of you're
looking at like two 12 hourshifts where they've gone three
shifts of eight hours, so you'vejust increased your um what's
it called cost by 33 on all ofthat labor transport, you know.
So, yeah, let's do this againin five years and we'll uh,
(35:31):
we'll see.
We'll see where we're at thenBefore we wrap up.
Ian Carless (35:33):
I've got a couple of quick fire questions for you.
Let's go.
Here we go.
Biggest on-site challengeyou've ever faced.
James Mistry (35:39):
Biggest on-site challenge.
One of our clients was tryingto make napalm on site and
didn't realize it was napalm.
It took us two days to talkthem down and threatening to put
all of our team on a plane.
Ian Carless (35:53):
That was a fun one yeah, napalm, that's a good one.
Yeah, one thing you'd ban atevents if you could one thing I
would ban at events.
James Mistry (36:01):
I'm gonna have to take time because there's.
I'd probably get in trouble ifI answered that straight away.
Uh, listen, it'd be good to seemore like no phone zones at the
concerts and all of this,because that's kind of ruining
it.
It's a bit of an obvious answer.
Most underrated event role.
Ian Carless (36:19):
Most underrated the purse lose gets the least
thanks, but it's one of thebiggest jobs the radio shack guy
, man, the radio, or maybethat's just the.
James Mistry (36:29):
I like that role because you can just sit in the
same place all day.
It's quite low pressure,underrated.
It's got to be the safety guyevery time, man yeah.
Ian Carless (36:38):
Okay, one thing clients should do before they
book your services.
James Mistry (36:43):
Just think about why they're calling us and what
they want from it.
Yeah, yeah, simple as that, andthat will help us service them
better.
Yeah, before, as simple as thatand that will help us service
them better.
Yeah, before we wrap up, what'snext for you?
What's next for me?
There's lots of things.
Listen.
Jam's my passion.
I've got two kids.
This this was my first, though.
Yeah, so I've got three kids,so it's like I'm excited about
(37:04):
what the next two to five yearsof jam will bring.
Yeah, with what's happening inthe gcc and globally, it's
really exciting.
There's that.
There's other things I want tolook at.
I think that's a pub chat, nota podcast chat, but it's
exciting.
The future for the team thatwe've built at JAM, it's
(37:25):
exciting.
Ian Carless (37:26):
And finally, we've asked all our guests this, just
to wrap up the podcast with youmust be a music fan.
I know I am Okay.
What's on your playlist at themoment?
Playlist Where's my phone, man?
James Mistry (37:39):
What's on the playlist, Listen.
It's everything from drum andbass, grime, UK hip hop, house,
reggae, et cetera, et cetera.
So a little bit of everything,yeah.
Ian Carless (37:50):
Brilliant.
James Mistry (37:54):
James, thanks very much for joining us on the
podcast.
Ian Carless (37:57):
Been a pleasure, man.
Thanks very much.
Event News DXP is brought toyou by Warehouse 4, dubai's best
independent event venue, andMinus Fortified DB, the team
transforming noisy event spacesinto slick, sound-reduced
environments.
It was presented by myself, ianCarlos, the studio engineer and
(38:17):
editor was Roy DeMonte, theexecutive producer was myself
and Joe Morrison, and thispodcast was produced by W4
Podcast Studio Dubai, and if youhaven't done so already, please
do click that follow orsubscribe button.
See you next time.
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