February 25, 2025 • 32 mins
EventNewsDXB Ep. 07 Mike Wain: Thriving & Surviving - Balancing Business & Well-Being
EventNewsDXB is supported by Warehouse Four - Dubai's best independent event venue.
Join host Ian Carless and seasoned event professional, Mike Wain, as he shares his insights on Dubai’s ever-evolving event industry and the challenges of entrepreneurship.
It's a candid discussion that shed's light on the rise and fall of Mike's previous company, Action Impact and see's him advocate for stronger industry standards and pre-qualification processes to create a more sustainable business landscape.
The conversation also explores the mental health toll of the industry, with Mike emphasising the need for empathy, rest, and healthy client relationships.
It's an engaging and honest discussion that provides valuable insights into the realities of building and sustaining a business in Dubai’s competitive events scene.
Podcast rundown
• Mike Wayne recounts his journey into Dubai's event industry.
• Closing Action Impact and how COVID-19 reshaped event planning and engagement.
• The importance of maintainng industry production standards.
• Exploration of the need for mental health awareness in the event industry.
• Insights into future trends and the sustainability of the events sector.
Production Credits:
Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian Carless (00:00):
Welcome to Event News DXB.
Before we begin, I've got aquick favour to ask.
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Thanks a bunch.
(00:20):
Thanks a bunch.
Event News DXB.
You're listening to the EventNews DXB podcast.
Your behind-the-scenes look intothe world of events in Dubai,
the UAE and the MENA region.
I'm Ian Carlos and each weekI'll be bringing you the latest
(00:43):
news, industry trends andinsider stories shaping one of
the world's most dynamic eventmarkets.
From professional insights toDubai's most inspiring success
stories, we've got everythingyou need to stay ahead in the
ever-evolving event industry.
So, whether you're an eventplanner, a brand manager or just
someone passionate about thepower of events, you're in the
right place.
(01:03):
This week, we're talking to oneof Dubai's longest-serving event
professionals, mike Wayne.
Mike's career in events spansover 28 years, during which time
he's been a driving force increating unforgettable
experiences.
He's also established severalsuccessful businesses, including
the UAE's first livecommunications company, eclipse
(01:24):
Staging Services, followed bythe brand experience agency,
action Impact.
In addition to his professionalachievements, mike is a
passionate advocate for mentalhealth and wellness in the event
industry and recently spoke onthe subject at the Middle East
Events Show.
Today he's founder and CEO ofVibrance, which focuses on event
management, exhibition standdesign and interior fit-out
(01:47):
solutions.
Mike, welcome to the podcast,ian.
Thank you for having me.
Mike Wayne (01:52):
How are you?
We haven't met for how long?
Oh, it must be 20 years almostit really is, isn't it?
Ian Carless (01:57):
Yeah, I mean just for everybody listening.
Mike and I first met when I wasat Ten Sports and you were at.
I was at MICE.
Mike Wayne (02:04):
Yeah, it was MICE Graffo, I think you designed the
first studio set didn't you, Idid.
It was a TV set and studio upin Media City for.
Ten Sports, it was yeah.
Ian Carless (02:14):
Fun times.
I know Picking up on that.
Then let's kick off.
How did you end up in Dubai inthe first place?
Mike Wayne (02:21):
Oh, that's a good question.
Yeah, funnily enough, it wasactually a friend of mine my
best friend from school, whosefather was actually working in
the oil and gas industry and hewanted to move his family out
here.
Okay, so I came out on holidayfor a month to have a look and
stayed for three months, saw theopportunities, went back to the
UK and then within two weekscame back out and started work
(02:46):
in Dubai, started with Pico inthose days, so it was doing
events and exhibitions.
Ian Carless (02:51):
I've got to ask you this as well, then, obviously,
on the subject how did you getinto events?
I mean, I hear you know, withother industries it's
interesting, isn't it?
I mean, for example, likemyself, I was in television
production for a long time and Iknew from a very early age that
that's what I wanted to do.
I don't hear a lot of people inthe event industry say, oh, I
knew, I always wanted to doevents since the age of six.
It seems to be more of avocation that people fall into
(03:15):
via something else.
So how did you end up in events?
Mike Wayne (03:20):
I think I started when I was at university.
Really.
I mean, at school I alwaysliked a good party, but
university really sort of tookit to the next level for me.
So going back all those years,I was on the crew setting up all
the events at university.
We had singers coming in, wehad Gabrielle, we had all the
uni balls, so we were organizingall the events within the
(03:41):
university.
So you know, an events industryis very addictive.
So once you're in it, you'rethere, you're partying.
You're there, you're the lastone at night, there at the show.
So you're pulling it all out,you're promoting it.
So you learn quite a lot yeahand in those days that's when
when free parties started.
So of course you were atuniversity, we were doing the uh
, doing the, the legal events,and then obviously we were doing
(04:04):
the free parties on theweekends.
So as you can see my universitydays, you know, and I don't
know what happened because I wasstudying accounts and finance.
So really true contrast.
But I would say that's where mypassion came for the events and
exhibition industry.
So it was the building thingsand creating things in the
(04:25):
middle of a field, for example,from nothing, the set building
and the looking at it thatreally sort of got under the
skin.
I didn't realise it at the time.
And then we came out here and itbecame a lot more commercially
driven.
You know, when I joined Picoout, here it was.
You know exhibitions was abigger market here, building
stuff, and then it grew fromthere.
So you know, exhibitions was abigger market here, building
stuff, and then it grew fromthere.
(04:45):
So you know, once you're inthis industry it's very
addictive, you know, similar totelevision for you.
You know the pressure's on,everything is a deadline,
everything is exciting,everything is new and each job
is different.
Ian Carless (04:56):
And when I met you, so you were with.
Who was it at the time when Imet you?
Oh, it was Mice.
Mice, yes, because I rememberyou chatting.
At the time you were saying, ohyou know, look, I'm not going
to be, and you were verywhispering on the sidelines
listen, you know, something'safoot.
Mike Wayne (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, talk to us about that, talk to us about
your journey, my journey yeah,your journey, okay, you really
want to and Adrian were talkingto set up.
I was looking at setting upsomething separately because I
thought you know, we could dothis a little bit better.
As you do when you're young,you always think you're better
(05:33):
than your boss and you know moreand you think you're great, but
the reality is it's a lottougher than you think.
So Adrian and I partnered upand formed Eclipse, which is an
event rental company which doeslighting lasers with Mark Brown
bless his soul, he's passed awaya few years ago of cancer, but
(05:56):
lovely guy.
So yeah.
So we formed Eclipse.
We were doing events, we weredoing exhibitions and it was the
first time really eventsaudiovisual rental and building
things like exhibitions hadreally come together, which we
then converted into livecommunications because we are a
grey industry.
We're not like an advertisingindustry.
You look through the industrylist, there isn't anything.
(06:18):
What do we come under?
Are we AV?
Are we event services?
What are we?
It's a grey industry.
So we then formed and created alive communications company
which focused on exhibitions andevents, um, with agents,
background in equipment rental,mine, in building and doing
things, concerts.
Then we pushed that businessforward.
Uh, unfortunately, you know,things don't always go as to
(06:41):
plan in business and the thirdpartner we fell out with and we
went our separate ways.
And then we formed ActionImpact, which we never looked
back on really, and it was anamazing 15, 16 years of growth
and launching many of the majorprojects that you see here.
So that was where I went.
I went from.
Ian Carless (07:01):
You know, seeing you and unfortunately not seeing
as much as you over the 20years that have passed by, but
one's been busy and tell us alittle bit more about your
action impact journey, because Iknow, obviously you guys, when
covid hit, it was a really toughtime for everybody, wasn't it?
I mean, I know, yeah, withmyself running warehouse four, I
mean we, for 18 months justtwiddling our thumbs, I, I had,
(07:23):
you know, 4,000 square feet ofevent space that was being
unused.
So it was challenging times,weren't they?
Mike Wayne (07:28):
Yeah, totally.
I think the whole COVID era,shall we say, was challenging
for the events industry, more sothan any other industry in the
world, I think because you knownobody comes to your aid.
Ian Carless (07:40):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (07:41):
You know, airlines you hear suffering because
nobody's travelling.
But the reality is governmentshelp them and they have assets
that they can redo.
You know.
But the events industry webring people together, suddenly
we're not allowed to bringpeople together.
Yeah, what do we do?
Yeah, um, so yeah, it was areally really tough time.
Uh, it was a lot time forself-reflection, yeah, time for
(08:04):
reassessing everything we weredoing hybrid events, but hybrid
events.
People don't really exposethemselves and want to have
communication online, so you'restill not doing the real deals.
It's almost like people aregoing through the motions as
opposed to actually engaging inthe events, if that makes sense
to you, which you still see themaround now, but it's not to the
level that it was, becausereally people aren't doing the
(08:26):
bigger deals and openingthemselves up online as they
were.
So, yeah, covid was reallytough financially across the
industry.
I think a lot of people leftthe industry.
Ian Carless (08:40):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (08:40):
You know, I think where we are now is an
interesting time because thewhole industry as a whole has
rebuilt.
You know, a lot of people sayit's bounced back, but I still
don't believe the industry isanywhere where it was in terms
of skill set, in terms of people, in terms of what could truly
be done.
I think there's still thelegacy of COVID still sits there
(09:03):
with mental health.
These days, our industry isdeadlines driven.
Everything is last minute.
Ian Carless (09:09):
Yep.
Mike Wayne (09:10):
You know, it's the nature of the industry and we
know what we're getting into,but the number of people coming
into the industry is less, youknow.
And then we have all thetechnology aspects heading up.
We've got AI, we've gotdesigners, you know.
So the talent pool is astruggle these days.
Ian Carless (09:27):
Yeah, it's interesting that you I was going
to ask you actually, you know,if you had to write a report
card on the health of theindustry you know pre-COVID and
post-COVID what would yourreport card say?
I mean, from my point of viewon the warehouse side, I've
noticed pre-COVID we were doinga lot larger events and probably
not as many of them Post-COVIDwe're doing a lot, lot more
(09:50):
smaller events, and I guess whatI take away from that is that I
think there was a certainrealization over COVID as well
that yeah, okay, it's greatgetting, you know, 1500 people
together in a room, or even 750people together in a room, but
as a client, how much face timedo you actually get with those
people?
You know, and I think what,what the learning seems to have
been is that with smaller groups, you just get more intimacy,
(10:12):
you get more one-on-one timewith people and you're able to
foster better relationships and,as you know, in this market,
relationships are key yeah,totally, I.
Mike Wayne (10:20):
I.
I think there's, there are roomfor you know, your epic big
launch events where you need youknow, you see them, you need
them.
They're big statement events.
You know the intimate eventsare where the real deals and
everything get done.
Yeah, you know always.
You know it's always those onesthat you don't hear about.
The people aren't invited.
(10:41):
It's it's quite specific onyour audience that you're
inviting the people aren'tinvited.
It's it's quite specific onyour audience that you're
inviting.
Yeah, but you also still needyour brand building events.
Where it's big, it's out there,it's the everyone event.
It's not just, you know, thedecision makers.
You need to get everybody onside and they're really what
you've seen less of, and that'sreally because of budget, I
believe.
I believe the brands still wantto do it.
(11:03):
I still still believe they wantto be there.
The issue is they can't be seento be doing that too much
because they've got to realigntheir budgets in certain areas.
So it's wiser spending, if thatmakes sense over the last few
years that have passed Talkingof big events.
Ian Carless (11:18):
if you look back over, I guess, your time with
Action, impact and before that,and Eclipse, what are the ones
that stand out for you where yougo?
Damn?
Mike Wayne (11:26):
I'm glad we did that .
I would say my biggest sort ofproudest moment is from
launching the, the concept ofDubai Parks and Resorts in Dubai
Land, which was launched in thevision of Dubai Land, and then,
in 2016, launching Dubai Parksand Resorts.
I mean it's quite a major feat.
There was four theme parks alllaunched in one on a floating
(11:49):
stage the first drone showwithin the Middle East that had
ever been done.
Small in comparison to thenumber of drones that people are
flying around these days.
However, the logistics of itand everything else, that was
probably be one of my proudestmoments from.
You know, 10 years fromlaunching the actual vision yeah
to actually seeing that come tofruition to almost 10 years
(12:11):
later is quite an achievementnow, I know you've you've
recently, I think in the last 18months you've launched a new
venture.
Ian Carless (12:19):
I wanted to ask you you know, as somebody who's now
launched what three, fourcompanies and obviously being,
you know, salaried in between atvarious points what is it that
keeps driving you back towardsthat entrepreneurial journey,
versus just taking the salariedrole?
Mike Wayne (12:34):
I know, it's pure madness, isn't it?
I don't know, I think it's theaddiction of that going through
the process.
You know, the addictiveness ofour industries itself is
challenging enough.
Then layering on, startingagain and redoing is, you know,
I think I like to be in controlof my own destiny a little bit.
You know, the stresses and theworries keep me going.
(12:56):
I think it's maybe adrenalinekick.
You know, maybe I'm actuallyjust a junkie of, uh, setting up
businesses and things.
I, I don't know, um, I've neverreally sat back and analyzed it,
but, uh, I think you know,since covid, when I looked at
closing, closing action in factdown and then, um, starting,
starting fresh, you know, Ireally did take a few years out
(13:19):
just to look and see.
Okay, is there something else Iwant to go into is that, you
know, business is business andthere's many different areas
that you can do.
But there was always thisdrawback to the events industry.
You know, from a building, from, you know from interiors to set
building, to putting instructures.
That always fascinates mebecause you are seeing it I
(13:42):
think I touched on it earlierwhere you're seeing the actual
finished product within a shortperiod of time.
So that job satisfaction andthat satisfaction moment of
seeing a client smile and begrateful and that gives you true
purpose of why you're doing it.
And as long as you agree withwhy they want to do what they
want to do, then it really givesyou a purpose to help people to
(14:02):
grow.
So that's why I sort of startedagain, really, because I was
sort of seeing the market takinga bit of a change and slowly I
could see it in a bit of adownward trend of the standards
and people not finishing work ontime and doing it right and I
thought, oh, actually, maybenow's the time to sort of come
(14:23):
back in.
But you know the market, there'slots of people in the market,
there's lots of people doinggreat work and the industry's
slowly coming back.
But I would really love for thestandard to be back where it
was, of truly, truly world class.
Ian Carless (14:34):
That's interesting.
I wanted to ask you this.
I mean, like yourself, I'vefounded businesses over the
years, production companies inparticular.
Some have succeeded, some havefailed, some because of my own
doing perhaps, if I look backand I'm completely honest, and
some just because ofcircumstances that were out of
my control.
What do you think you'll takeaway from those past experiences
(14:54):
moving forward now in your newjourney?
It's interesting.
Mike Wayne (14:59):
I think you learn most when you fail.
Yes, you know, and you trulylook back and people are scared
to fail, you know, and Dubai'snever really been a place that
allows you to fail, you know,but the government is really
sort of pushing things so thatyou can these days, which is
great, because to truly becomean entrepreneur you need to fail
(15:20):
.
You know, as you say, youfailed.
I've had failed businesses aswell, I believe it or not.
I went into car ventures, youknow, because I enjoyed driving
cars and looking at cars, butyou know, some of them failed
and some of them didn't, but youknow, they were just little
side hobbies.
So I think the reality is isfocus.
I would say you need focus andyou have to drive and you have
(15:42):
to be focused and you want to bethe best of what you do.
You know, just acceptingsomething because that's what
somebody says doesn't mean it'sright.
You have to question, you haveto be curious, you don't need to
be able to adapt to yourcircumstances and I think
measuring these days, more sothan ever, managing your cash
(16:04):
flow.
Ian Carless (16:05):
Yeah, that's a big one.
Mike Wayne (16:05):
You know that's the big one at the moment, I would
say, in the world cash flow,because it's all about cash that
makes the world go round.
So managing that cash flow whencompanies aren't paying you on
time and delaying that giveschallenges.
Ian Carless (16:18):
And that's a perennial problem, I think, is
managing that cash flowparticularly and getting paid on
time.
I think often, when you'retalking about big events as well
, there's a huge outlay involvedat the beginning and that's a
lot for people to carry.
Mike Wayne (16:30):
Yeah, of course People don't realise that just
to design something has a cost.
You know, people believe that,oh, just change this design,
just make this tweak.
Ian Carless (16:39):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (16:39):
You spend all that money designing and you know,
dare I say, the client has morethan 10 companies pitching on
the same project.
Yeah, 10 companies that justhad that cost of a designer or
design team, because you stillneed to cost it.
So you still need yourproduction, you still need your
producers, you still needeveryone to spend time across
that project.
It has a cost and when they goout to more companies, then it
(17:02):
becomes harder and harder.
So the pre-qualifications needto be better, the standards need
to be better.
Standards need to be there inorder to choose correctly.
So it becomes a lot harder tomanage your cash flow.
Because you've spent money onpitching, now you also need to
win the project.
If you don't, nine companieshave lost.
Only one person has won thatproject.
(17:22):
So that company now needs tothen put performance bonds, put
all these ties down in order to,so cash is king.
Ian Carless (17:32):
Which leads me on to.
You know, I was going to askyou what do you think are some
of the challenges that wecurrently face in the event
industry?
Managing that pitching process,for example.
I mean we experience that atWarehouse 4 quite a bit.
You know, I'll often get for anevent, I'll get four or five
different event companieslooking to book the warehouse
and I'll you know, when you lookat the brief you're like oh,
that's all the same event, it'sthe same events.
(17:54):
And I feel for those eventmanagement companies because, as
you just pointed out, only oneof them is going to get the gig
I mean we're a little bit luckybecause we've got five bites of
the cherry, for example.
They've only got one bite ofthat cherry.
And I think sometimes it's alittle unfair of clients just to
sort of machine gun out a wholeload of RFPs to as many event
companies as they can.
Mike Wayne (18:15):
Yeah, and I agree with you 100%.
I think the industry just needsto talk more to each other.
That's the key is, rather thantreating each other as
competitors.
We're all in the same industry.
We all should be companions onthe same journey, willing to
help each other along the way.
So only if you do that thenwill you stride in the right
direction, because nothing'sgoing to change.
(18:36):
They're still going to go outto the companies procurement
legislation you have to.
You know it's standard.
You know why wouldn't you goand get three quotes If you're
not getting three quotes?
I think it's crazy.
You know 10 quotes, probably abit too much to be fair.
Ian Carless (18:49):
Yeah, I think sometimes I mean just thinking
about that now.
I think we're also perhaps alittle bit of a maybe this is
one of the negatives of justwhere we are, and that's that
Dubai is quite a transient place, and I always used to joke that
you know, you'd often ring up aclient after 18 months and
they'd be like who?
And you'd realize, oh, they'vemoved on.
(19:11):
Now the best case scenario isthat is, they've moved on within
the UAE and you now hopefullyhave a new client.
The downside of it is thatthey've either left the country,
in which case you've lost thatexisting client, but then also,
ok, you may have gained the sameclient with a new company, but
then you then have a newrelationship to build.
Mike Wayne (19:31):
Yeah, but I think that's where your client
servicing team really comes intoplay and I think that's one
thing you know since COVID.
People try to cut out theclient servicing and it's a
sales slash project manager inone thing.
But true client servicing, youwould be able to cover that
because you're friendly with theprocurement, you're friendly
with the CEO and one person'sleft.
(19:51):
One person isn't the companythat you're dealing with.
One person's an individual thatyou warm to, but actually
you're dealing with.
One person is an individualthat you warm to, but actually
you're working with an entity.
It's the entity that's employed,you, not the individual.
And that's where clientservices is a true tool art in
itself.
And if you're able to managethose relationships which we
keep talking about, it's allabout relationship management.
(20:13):
It's not the person, it's theentity with the people yeah that
you're dealing with, becauseyou know the brand better than
them, you know you should becometheir brand guardian because
you know them better than theyknow themselves.
Yeah, that's a true partnership.
That's how we grew thebusinesses, that's how we grow
our relationships with people,that's how we operate, so that
we know them better than theyknow themselves, because that
(20:36):
new person in doesn't reallyknow.
All they want to do is lookgood.
And that's how you build theirtrust and build their reliance,
because you're aware yep, so youknow that that that's the art
form I think you know, andbusiness growth will grow.
That person will call youbecause you made them look good
before and you'll make them lookgood again.
So, especially now, with thebrain drain and everyone going
(20:57):
to Saudi Arabia, you know hereis becoming, you know, short on
true talent.
Ian Carless (21:04):
That was actually going to be.
One of my next questions wasSaudi.
You know, you've been here what27, 28 years?
I've been here 22 years.
I think.
We've both seen things come andgo, as they do Saudi.
Is that one of those thingsthat's going to come and go?
Or how important is Saudi goingto be moving forward, in
particular, obviously inrelation to the event?
Mike Wayne (21:24):
industry.
It's interesting Maybe 15 yearsago we were working in Saudi
Arabia and doing projects and wetake everything from here and
go in there and deliver projects, fly things in from Europe,
deliver the projects and thencome back.
You know, great, wonderfulplace, great projects.
Saudi will grow.
There's no doubt about it.
It will grow.
It's going through what I callthe gold rush season, which will
(21:46):
come to an end.
I think it probably is.
People are starting to read,revisit budgets, see the true
sustainability of what they'retrying to do, and then it will
grow a reasonable pace.
It's been very fast paced overthe last few years, to say the
least.
Do I think it will be asustainable market?
Yes, I do.
I think it'll be a huge marketfor everybody, but I think the
(22:08):
UAE is ahead by far and I thinkthe UAE stands to stay ahead if
they keep doing what they'redoing.
Looking at the events that thesectors are doing very well,
both DTCM and ADTA in Abu Dhabiare doing fantastic jobs of
keeping people as UAE as numberone in the region.
(22:29):
You know Saudi Arabia will taketime to come to where the UAE
is and I think they're just alittle bit too far behind, and
it doesn't matter how much moneyyou throw at it.
It takes time to build thatacross the world.
You know we're talking aboutinternational visitors.
Saudi Arabia has its ownvisitors internally that they
can just service, but on theglobal stage I think the UAE is
(22:50):
the place to be.
Ian Carless (22:52):
So moving tax slightly.
I mean, you mentioned thisearlier in the conversation.
We work in an incrediblystressful industry.
You know short deadlines, highpressure, high stakes.
How, then, you know, when welive in such a stressful or work
in such a stressful industry,mental health has become
increasingly important, has it,hasn't it, as it has throughout
(23:13):
the world in pretty much everyindustry, and I know that's
something you're pretty hot onat the moment.
Do you want to talk about that?
Mike Wayne (23:19):
yeah, I'm, you know, I'm very, I'm very close to it.
I haven't had my own uhchallenges over the over the
years likewise been in thisindustry.
I don't think anyone within theevents industry hasn't had some
form of mental issue or concernor, you know, sleepless nights,
whatever you want to term it.
But I think the world is nowgiving things a name.
You know there is anxiety,there is everything.
(23:40):
As soon as you give things aname mental health, etc.
Then people can relate to it,then you can address it.
I think the key is people haveto accept it and address it,
because everyone suffers.
There's no two ways about itthe pressure release you'll find
people on events, the buildupand the pressure of the event
the following week after theystop and then they're sick.
(24:01):
It is very important to allowtime for mental health and for
people to address it and also tobe aware of it.
Because at any time somethingcan happen.
We've got more suicides thanever in the uk.
Uh, events, industry happening.
You know it's getting betterbecause people are addressing it
and people have been aware.
But you know, as guys we don'twant to go and talk about it.
(24:22):
We, you know it's a bit of anembarrassment, it's a bit of a
but the more people talk aboutit, the better.
Better, and I spoke about theMiddle East event show last year
on mental health because it isdefinitely an issue that only
the individuals can sort out.
The businesses can point you inthe right direction and help
you, but as an individual youhave to take it on yourself and
your friends and colleaguesaround you can try and help
(24:45):
identify any issues that may bethere.
And it's a very delicatesubject.
Ian Carless (24:52):
Do you think, as somebody that's perhaps been on
both sides of that, you know andlike myself, you know that
we've had stressful times andtimes of, you know, great
discomfort.
Do you think it's the onus ison?
You alluded to it just then,but do you think the onus is on
the individual, or is there morethat corporations and companies
, employers can be doing as wellto help?
Mike Wayne (25:30):
no-transcript, know, and I thought that was funny at
the time and it was a joke andit was ongoing.
Should I say something alongthose lines?
These days, the anxiety and thestress that that would cause
people when they leave of, youknow, do they feel they should
be doing more is wrong andthat's the education piece
(25:50):
that's helped.
So, being empathetic towardsthem.
And you know, making surepeople get enough rest days, you
know recovery days, you know isimportant, you know, for their
own mental well-being.
You know you want the most outof your staff and teams that are
doing.
And you know, in our industry,if you're're in this industry,
(26:12):
you are committed 150 percent toa project.
Ian Carless (26:15):
Do you think that it's something that's the
recognition is where it shouldbe within our industry?
Mike Wayne (26:22):
no, no, there's a long way to go, you know, and
that that's you know.
We've got budget pressures.
We've got people saying you'retoo expensive.
You've got, you know, clientsnot necessarily accepting it,
but yet in their own industriesthey accept it.
But why don't they accept itfor the event industry, their
procurement teams?
Why are your rates so expensive?
Well, they're not.
The market rates are the marketrates.
(26:44):
These are the rates.
Ian Carless (26:47):
One of the things you could throw back there is,
as we all know, timelines.
Maybe my stress will be managedif you gave us a little bit
more time to work on this event.
Mike Wayne (26:56):
Yeah, I mean that's been a lifelong thing.
I mean time's got shorter andshorter, but I actually do think
there is a bit more planninggoing ahead now, especially as
people look more towards theinternational type events.
But there is planning in, butthere is.
You'll never have pure planningacross everything.
You will always have the lastminute events what have you done
differently then?
Ian Carless (27:16):
do you think to manage your own sort of mental
health in that, in that space?
Mike Wayne (27:20):
I think I've become a lot more selective.
You know, the power of no isdefinitely more rigid than it
was many years ago, because whenyou're off you just want to
chase and run and you thinkyou're invincible.
You can run 150 miles an hour,which I'm sure I could in the
old days, I think.
But I think now we just get abit more.
(27:42):
We measure the risk.
I think that is the key ismeasuring your risk and what it
takes, and is it worth thereward at the end of the end of
the tunnel?
Ian Carless (27:53):
do you think we mellow with age as well?
Mike Wayne (27:56):
I don't think we necessarily mellow.
I think we just don't mellows.
It mellows an interesting word.
Yeah, I.
I think we become a little bitmore reserved and wiser.
I think that gray is truly alittle bit more of a wiser.
You know, there is alwayssomeone younger and faster
behind you, you know like boxingcareers.
(28:18):
You know there's always someonestronger and faster behind you.
You know they're short careers,but yeah, I think it's a young
man's sport to be running 100miles an hour.
Yeah, but you know, we havethat knowledge.
You know as we get older andhopefully we can pass that on to
others.
That's the key.
Ian Carless (28:37):
Very true.
Well, before we wrap up, I'vebeen asking everybody this.
I'm a bit of a music fan.
The vinyl collection is growingagain.
What's on your playlist at themoment?
What are you listening to inthe car?
Mike Wayne (28:55):
That's again what's on your playlist at the moment.
What are you listening to inthe car?
That's interesting actually.
I've actually gone back.
I've actually gone way back andlet me think, sing.
I've gone way back.
Yeah, no, I'm actuallylistening to a bit of rap at the
moment, funnily enough.
Yeah, mc dmc, I wouldn't putyou around.
Nobody would, nobody Jumparound, nobody would, nobody
would.
But I don't know why.
I don't know if it's lyrical, Idon't know if it's just a time.
I've sort of flashback.
I like all music, don't get mewrong.
(29:16):
I like all genres of music.
I actually love country musicand I think it's because the
stories in it it's the same asthe events industry.
You haven't got anything.
So you know, stories in countrymusic is second to none.
Rapping is very similar if yousit back.
Ian Carless (29:39):
And for anybody listening to this, I'm now sat
across a Mike Wayne who'slooking a little bit like Kenny.
Loggins at the moment, ohGetting that country reference
no exactly.
And just to wrap up, what areyou looking forward to?
Mike Wayne (29:51):
I'm looking forward to this year.
Actually, I think this year isgoing to be quite an exciting
year.
I think 2025, we're going tosee a lot of resets, you know,
politically across the world.
Hopefully we'll see somestability coming back in and
some wisdom and just some action, really just to reset
everything and build up sopeople can be positive, because
(30:12):
I think the last few years havebeen quite negative and quite
down, but yet here in the uaecertainly, and saudi arabia as
well although let's focus on theuae because that's where we are
is had an exceptional year andI think that can just continue
and can grow with stability, andI think 2025 is going to be a
(30:35):
year of forward motion is what Ithink.
I think we're going to see a lotmore intimate events, as you
said earlier.
I think they will continue.
I think we're seeing, you know,a large number of high net
worth individuals coming inwanting to have interesting
events.
Yeah, I think we'll see somebigger giga events.
We're seeing a lot morefestivals going on.
(30:56):
I think there'll be more andmore festivals, because it's an
area where people can cometogether both families,
communities.
So you, you're enabling bothbalance of people spending time
with their families and havingfun and engaging.
I still think you'll see supplychain issues and talent issues
going on across the region, frommaterials through to the talent
(31:17):
.
I still think that will stay inplace, but I'm really looking
forward to the forward motion of2025, which is what I think
everybody should be lookingforward to.
That wave is there, even thoughbusinesses may be down in some
sectors, but I believe it willtruly push through in 2025.
Ian Carless (31:35):
Mike, thank you very much for coming in and
thanks for joining me.
Mike Wayne (31:38):
No, thanks very much for having me.
It's been a pleasure after allthese years.
Ian Carless (31:41):
Mustn't leave it this long.
Mike Wayne (31:42):
Sitting across from you seeing your face.
I'll see you in 25 years next,but no, it's been fantastic
really.
Ian Carless (31:50):
So you in 25 years next, but no, it's been
fantastic, really.
So thank you for having me.
You're welcome.
Event news dxb was presented bymyself, ian carlos, the studio
engineer and editor was roy demonte, the executive producer
was myself and joe morrison, andthis podcast is a co-production
between warehouse 4 and w4podcast studio dubai, and if you
haven't done so already, pleasedo click that follow or
subscribe button.
See you next time.
Welcome to Event News DXB.
Before we begin, I've got aquick favour to ask.
There's one simple way that youcan support our show, and
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(00:20):
Thanks a bunch.
Event News DXB.
You're listening to the EventNews DXB podcast.
Your behind-the-scenes look intothe world of events in Dubai,
the UAE and the MENA region.
I'm Ian Carlos and each weekI'll be bringing you the latest
(00:43):
news, industry trends andinsider stories shaping one of
the world's most dynamic eventmarkets.
From professional insights toDubai's most inspiring success
stories, we've got everythingyou need to stay ahead in the
ever-evolving event industry.
So, whether you're an eventplanner, a brand manager or just
someone passionate about thepower of events, you're in the
right place.
(01:03):
This week, we're talking to oneof Dubai's longest-serving event
professionals, mike Wayne.
Mike's career in events spansover 28 years, during which time
he's been a driving force increating unforgettable
experiences.
He's also established severalsuccessful businesses, including
the UAE's first livecommunications company, eclipse
(01:24):
Staging Services, followed bythe brand experience agency,
action Impact.
In addition to his professionalachievements, mike is a
passionate advocate for mentalhealth and wellness in the event
industry and recently spoke onthe subject at the Middle East
Events Show.
Today he's founder and CEO ofVibrance, which focuses on event
management, exhibition standdesign and interior fit-out
(01:47):
solutions.
Mike, welcome to the podcast,ian.
Thank you for having me.
Mike Wayne (01:52):
How are you?
We haven't met for how long?
Oh, it must be 20 years almostit really is, isn't it?
Ian Carless (01:57):
Yeah, I mean just for everybody listening.
Mike and I first met when I wasat Ten Sports and you were at.
I was at MICE.
Mike Wayne (02:04):
Yeah, it was MICE Graffo, I think you designed the
first studio set didn't you, Idid.
It was a TV set and studio upin Media City for.
Ten Sports, it was yeah.
Ian Carless (02:14):
Fun times.
I know Picking up on that.
Then let's kick off.
How did you end up in Dubai inthe first place?
Mike Wayne (02:21):
Oh, that's a good question.
Yeah, funnily enough, it wasactually a friend of mine my
best friend from school, whosefather was actually working in
the oil and gas industry and hewanted to move his family out
here.
Okay, so I came out on holidayfor a month to have a look and
stayed for three months, saw theopportunities, went back to the
UK and then within two weekscame back out and started work
(02:46):
in Dubai, started with Pico inthose days, so it was doing
events and exhibitions.
Ian Carless (02:51):
I've got to ask you this as well, then, obviously,
on the subject how did you getinto events?
I mean, I hear you know, withother industries it's
interesting, isn't it?
I mean, for example, likemyself, I was in television
production for a long time and Iknew from a very early age that
that's what I wanted to do.
I don't hear a lot of people inthe event industry say, oh, I
knew, I always wanted to doevents since the age of six.
It seems to be more of avocation that people fall into
(03:15):
via something else.
So how did you end up in events?
Mike Wayne (03:20):
I think I started when I was at university.
Really.
I mean, at school I alwaysliked a good party, but
university really sort of tookit to the next level for me.
So going back all those years,I was on the crew setting up all
the events at university.
We had singers coming in, wehad Gabrielle, we had all the
uni balls, so we were organizingall the events within the
(03:41):
university.
So you know, an events industryis very addictive.
So once you're in it, you'rethere, you're partying.
You're there, you're the lastone at night, there at the show.
So you're pulling it all out,you're promoting it.
So you learn quite a lot yeahand in those days that's when
when free parties started.
So of course you were atuniversity, we were doing the uh
, doing the, the legal events,and then obviously we were doing
(04:04):
the free parties on theweekends.
So as you can see my universitydays, you know, and I don't
know what happened because I wasstudying accounts and finance.
So really true contrast.
But I would say that's where mypassion came for the events and
exhibition industry.
So it was the building thingsand creating things in the
(04:25):
middle of a field, for example,from nothing, the set building
and the looking at it thatreally sort of got under the
skin.
I didn't realise it at the time.
And then we came out here and itbecame a lot more commercially
driven.
You know, when I joined Picoout, here it was.
You know exhibitions was abigger market here, building
stuff, and then it grew fromthere.
So you know, exhibitions was abigger market here, building
stuff, and then it grew fromthere.
(04:45):
So you know, once you're inthis industry it's very
addictive, you know, similar totelevision for you.
You know the pressure's on,everything is a deadline,
everything is exciting,everything is new and each job
is different.
Ian Carless (04:56):
And when I met you, so you were with.
Who was it at the time when Imet you?
Oh, it was Mice.
Mice, yes, because I rememberyou chatting.
At the time you were saying, ohyou know, look, I'm not going
to be, and you were verywhispering on the sidelines
listen, you know, something'safoot.
Mike Wayne (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, talk to us about that, talk to us about
your journey, my journey yeah,your journey, okay, you really
want to and Adrian were talkingto set up.
I was looking at setting upsomething separately because I
thought you know, we could dothis a little bit better.
As you do when you're young,you always think you're better
(05:33):
than your boss and you know moreand you think you're great, but
the reality is it's a lottougher than you think.
So Adrian and I partnered upand formed Eclipse, which is an
event rental company which doeslighting lasers with Mark Brown
bless his soul, he's passed awaya few years ago of cancer, but
(05:56):
lovely guy.
So yeah.
So we formed Eclipse.
We were doing events, we weredoing exhibitions and it was the
first time really eventsaudiovisual rental and building
things like exhibitions hadreally come together, which we
then converted into livecommunications because we are a
grey industry.
We're not like an advertisingindustry.
You look through the industrylist, there isn't anything.
(06:18):
What do we come under?
Are we AV?
Are we event services?
What are we?
It's a grey industry.
So we then formed and created alive communications company
which focused on exhibitions andevents, um, with agents,
background in equipment rental,mine, in building and doing
things, concerts.
Then we pushed that businessforward.
Uh, unfortunately, you know,things don't always go as to
(06:41):
plan in business and the thirdpartner we fell out with and we
went our separate ways.
And then we formed ActionImpact, which we never looked
back on really, and it was anamazing 15, 16 years of growth
and launching many of the majorprojects that you see here.
So that was where I went.
I went from.
Ian Carless (07:01):
You know, seeing you and unfortunately not seeing
as much as you over the 20years that have passed by, but
one's been busy and tell us alittle bit more about your
action impact journey, because Iknow, obviously you guys, when
covid hit, it was a really toughtime for everybody, wasn't it?
I mean, I know, yeah, withmyself running warehouse four, I
mean we, for 18 months justtwiddling our thumbs, I, I had,
(07:23):
you know, 4,000 square feet ofevent space that was being
unused.
So it was challenging times,weren't they?
Mike Wayne (07:28):
Yeah, totally.
I think the whole COVID era,shall we say, was challenging
for the events industry, more sothan any other industry in the
world, I think because you knownobody comes to your aid.
Ian Carless (07:40):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (07:41):
You know, airlines you hear suffering because
nobody's travelling.
But the reality is governmentshelp them and they have assets
that they can redo.
You know.
But the events industry webring people together, suddenly
we're not allowed to bringpeople together.
Yeah, what do we do?
Yeah, um, so yeah, it was areally really tough time.
Uh, it was a lot time forself-reflection, yeah, time for
(08:04):
reassessing everything we weredoing hybrid events, but hybrid
events.
People don't really exposethemselves and want to have
communication online, so you'restill not doing the real deals.
It's almost like people aregoing through the motions as
opposed to actually engaging inthe events, if that makes sense
to you, which you still see themaround now, but it's not to the
level that it was, becausereally people aren't doing the
(08:26):
bigger deals and openingthemselves up online as they
were.
So, yeah, covid was reallytough financially across the
industry.
I think a lot of people leftthe industry.
Ian Carless (08:40):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (08:40):
You know, I think where we are now is an
interesting time because thewhole industry as a whole has
rebuilt.
You know, a lot of people sayit's bounced back, but I still
don't believe the industry isanywhere where it was in terms
of skill set, in terms of people, in terms of what could truly
be done.
I think there's still thelegacy of COVID still sits there
(09:03):
with mental health.
These days, our industry isdeadlines driven.
Everything is last minute.
Ian Carless (09:09):
Yep.
Mike Wayne (09:10):
You know, it's the nature of the industry and we
know what we're getting into,but the number of people coming
into the industry is less, youknow.
And then we have all thetechnology aspects heading up.
We've got AI, we've gotdesigners, you know.
So the talent pool is astruggle these days.
Ian Carless (09:27):
Yeah, it's interesting that you I was going
to ask you actually, you know,if you had to write a report
card on the health of theindustry you know pre-COVID and
post-COVID what would yourreport card say?
I mean, from my point of viewon the warehouse side, I've
noticed pre-COVID we were doinga lot larger events and probably
not as many of them Post-COVIDwe're doing a lot, lot more
(09:50):
smaller events, and I guess whatI take away from that is that I
think there was a certainrealization over COVID as well
that yeah, okay, it's greatgetting, you know, 1500 people
together in a room, or even 750people together in a room, but
as a client, how much face timedo you actually get with those
people?
You know, and I think what,what the learning seems to have
been is that with smaller groups, you just get more intimacy,
(10:12):
you get more one-on-one timewith people and you're able to
foster better relationships and,as you know, in this market,
relationships are key yeah,totally, I.
Mike Wayne (10:20):
I.
I think there's, there are roomfor you know, your epic big
launch events where you need youknow, you see them, you need
them.
They're big statement events.
You know the intimate eventsare where the real deals and
everything get done.
Yeah, you know always.
You know it's always those onesthat you don't hear about.
The people aren't invited.
(10:41):
It's it's quite specific onyour audience that you're
inviting the people aren'tinvited.
It's it's quite specific onyour audience that you're
inviting.
Yeah, but you also still needyour brand building events.
Where it's big, it's out there,it's the everyone event.
It's not just, you know, thedecision makers.
You need to get everybody onside and they're really what
you've seen less of, and that'sreally because of budget, I
believe.
I believe the brands still wantto do it.
(11:03):
I still still believe they wantto be there.
The issue is they can't be seento be doing that too much
because they've got to realigntheir budgets in certain areas.
So it's wiser spending, if thatmakes sense over the last few
years that have passed Talkingof big events.
Ian Carless (11:18):
if you look back over, I guess, your time with
Action, impact and before that,and Eclipse, what are the ones
that stand out for you where yougo?
Damn?
Mike Wayne (11:26):
I'm glad we did that .
I would say my biggest sort ofproudest moment is from
launching the, the concept ofDubai Parks and Resorts in Dubai
Land, which was launched in thevision of Dubai Land, and then,
in 2016, launching Dubai Parksand Resorts.
I mean it's quite a major feat.
There was four theme parks alllaunched in one on a floating
(11:49):
stage the first drone showwithin the Middle East that had
ever been done.
Small in comparison to thenumber of drones that people are
flying around these days.
However, the logistics of itand everything else, that was
probably be one of my proudestmoments from.
You know, 10 years fromlaunching the actual vision yeah
to actually seeing that come tofruition to almost 10 years
(12:11):
later is quite an achievementnow, I know you've you've
recently, I think in the last 18months you've launched a new
venture.
Ian Carless (12:19):
I wanted to ask you you know, as somebody who's now
launched what three, fourcompanies and obviously being,
you know, salaried in between atvarious points what is it that
keeps driving you back towardsthat entrepreneurial journey,
versus just taking the salariedrole?
Mike Wayne (12:34):
I know, it's pure madness, isn't it?
I don't know, I think it's theaddiction of that going through
the process.
You know, the addictiveness ofour industries itself is
challenging enough.
Then layering on, startingagain and redoing is, you know,
I think I like to be in controlof my own destiny a little bit.
You know, the stresses and theworries keep me going.
(12:56):
I think it's maybe adrenalinekick.
You know, maybe I'm actuallyjust a junkie of, uh, setting up
businesses and things.
I, I don't know, um, I've neverreally sat back and analyzed it,
but, uh, I think you know,since covid, when I looked at
closing, closing action in factdown and then, um, starting,
starting fresh, you know, Ireally did take a few years out
(13:19):
just to look and see.
Okay, is there something else Iwant to go into is that, you
know, business is business andthere's many different areas
that you can do.
But there was always thisdrawback to the events industry.
You know, from a building, from, you know from interiors to set
building, to putting instructures.
That always fascinates mebecause you are seeing it I
(13:42):
think I touched on it earlierwhere you're seeing the actual
finished product within a shortperiod of time.
So that job satisfaction andthat satisfaction moment of
seeing a client smile and begrateful and that gives you true
purpose of why you're doing it.
And as long as you agree withwhy they want to do what they
want to do, then it really givesyou a purpose to help people to
(14:02):
grow.
So that's why I sort of startedagain, really, because I was
sort of seeing the market takinga bit of a change and slowly I
could see it in a bit of adownward trend of the standards
and people not finishing work ontime and doing it right and I
thought, oh, actually, maybenow's the time to sort of come
(14:23):
back in.
But you know the market, there'slots of people in the market,
there's lots of people doinggreat work and the industry's
slowly coming back.
But I would really love for thestandard to be back where it
was, of truly, truly world class.
Ian Carless (14:34):
That's interesting.
I wanted to ask you this.
I mean, like yourself, I'vefounded businesses over the
years, production companies inparticular.
Some have succeeded, some havefailed, some because of my own
doing perhaps, if I look backand I'm completely honest, and
some just because ofcircumstances that were out of
my control.
What do you think you'll takeaway from those past experiences
(14:54):
moving forward now in your newjourney?
It's interesting.
Mike Wayne (14:59):
I think you learn most when you fail.
Yes, you know, and you trulylook back and people are scared
to fail, you know, and Dubai'snever really been a place that
allows you to fail, you know,but the government is really
sort of pushing things so thatyou can these days, which is
great, because to truly becomean entrepreneur you need to fail
(15:20):
.
You know, as you say, youfailed.
I've had failed businesses aswell, I believe it or not.
I went into car ventures, youknow, because I enjoyed driving
cars and looking at cars, butyou know, some of them failed
and some of them didn't, but youknow, they were just little
side hobbies.
So I think the reality is isfocus.
I would say you need focus andyou have to drive and you have
(15:42):
to be focused and you want to bethe best of what you do.
You know, just acceptingsomething because that's what
somebody says doesn't mean it'sright.
You have to question, you haveto be curious, you don't need to
be able to adapt to yourcircumstances and I think
measuring these days, more sothan ever, managing your cash
(16:04):
flow.
Ian Carless (16:05):
Yeah, that's a big one.
Mike Wayne (16:05):
You know that's the big one at the moment, I would
say, in the world cash flow,because it's all about cash that
makes the world go round.
So managing that cash flow whencompanies aren't paying you on
time and delaying that giveschallenges.
Ian Carless (16:18):
And that's a perennial problem, I think, is
managing that cash flowparticularly and getting paid on
time.
I think often, when you'retalking about big events as well
, there's a huge outlay involvedat the beginning and that's a
lot for people to carry.
Mike Wayne (16:30):
Yeah, of course People don't realise that just
to design something has a cost.
You know, people believe that,oh, just change this design,
just make this tweak.
Ian Carless (16:39):
Yeah.
Mike Wayne (16:39):
You spend all that money designing and you know,
dare I say, the client has morethan 10 companies pitching on
the same project.
Yeah, 10 companies that justhad that cost of a designer or
design team, because you stillneed to cost it.
So you still need yourproduction, you still need your
producers, you still needeveryone to spend time across
that project.
It has a cost and when they goout to more companies, then it
(17:02):
becomes harder and harder.
So the pre-qualifications needto be better, the standards need
to be better.
Standards need to be there inorder to choose correctly.
So it becomes a lot harder tomanage your cash flow.
Because you've spent money onpitching, now you also need to
win the project.
If you don't, nine companieshave lost.
Only one person has won thatproject.
(17:22):
So that company now needs tothen put performance bonds, put
all these ties down in order to,so cash is king.
Ian Carless (17:32):
Which leads me on to.
You know, I was going to askyou what do you think are some
of the challenges that wecurrently face in the event
industry?
Managing that pitching process,for example.
I mean we experience that atWarehouse 4 quite a bit.
You know, I'll often get for anevent, I'll get four or five
different event companieslooking to book the warehouse
and I'll you know, when you lookat the brief you're like oh,
that's all the same event, it'sthe same events.
(17:54):
And I feel for those eventmanagement companies because, as
you just pointed out, only oneof them is going to get the gig
I mean we're a little bit luckybecause we've got five bites of
the cherry, for example.
They've only got one bite ofthat cherry.
And I think sometimes it's alittle unfair of clients just to
sort of machine gun out a wholeload of RFPs to as many event
companies as they can.
Mike Wayne (18:15):
Yeah, and I agree with you 100%.
I think the industry just needsto talk more to each other.
That's the key is, rather thantreating each other as
competitors.
We're all in the same industry.
We all should be companions onthe same journey, willing to
help each other along the way.
So only if you do that thenwill you stride in the right
direction, because nothing'sgoing to change.
(18:36):
They're still going to go outto the companies procurement
legislation you have to.
You know it's standard.
You know why wouldn't you goand get three quotes If you're
not getting three quotes?
I think it's crazy.
You know 10 quotes, probably abit too much to be fair.
Ian Carless (18:49):
Yeah, I think sometimes I mean just thinking
about that now.
I think we're also perhaps alittle bit of a maybe this is
one of the negatives of justwhere we are, and that's that
Dubai is quite a transient place, and I always used to joke that
you know, you'd often ring up aclient after 18 months and
they'd be like who?
And you'd realize, oh, they'vemoved on.
(19:11):
Now the best case scenario isthat is, they've moved on within
the UAE and you now hopefullyhave a new client.
The downside of it is thatthey've either left the country,
in which case you've lost thatexisting client, but then also,
ok, you may have gained the sameclient with a new company, but
then you then have a newrelationship to build.
Mike Wayne (19:31):
Yeah, but I think that's where your client
servicing team really comes intoplay and I think that's one
thing you know since COVID.
People try to cut out theclient servicing and it's a
sales slash project manager inone thing.
But true client servicing, youwould be able to cover that
because you're friendly with theprocurement, you're friendly
with the CEO and one person'sleft.
(19:51):
One person isn't the companythat you're dealing with.
One person's an individual thatyou warm to, but actually
you're dealing with.
One person is an individualthat you warm to, but actually
you're working with an entity.
It's the entity that's employed,you, not the individual.
And that's where clientservices is a true tool art in
itself.
And if you're able to managethose relationships which we
keep talking about, it's allabout relationship management.
(20:13):
It's not the person, it's theentity with the people yeah that
you're dealing with, becauseyou know the brand better than
them, you know you should becometheir brand guardian because
you know them better than theyknow themselves.
Yeah, that's a true partnership.
That's how we grew thebusinesses, that's how we grow
our relationships with people,that's how we operate, so that
we know them better than theyknow themselves, because that
(20:36):
new person in doesn't reallyknow.
All they want to do is lookgood.
And that's how you build theirtrust and build their reliance,
because you're aware yep, so youknow that that that's the art
form I think you know, andbusiness growth will grow.
That person will call youbecause you made them look good
before and you'll make them lookgood again.
So, especially now, with thebrain drain and everyone going
(20:57):
to Saudi Arabia, you know hereis becoming, you know, short on
true talent.
Ian Carless (21:04):
That was actually going to be.
One of my next questions wasSaudi.
You know, you've been here what27, 28 years?
I've been here 22 years.
I think.
We've both seen things come andgo, as they do Saudi.
Is that one of those thingsthat's going to come and go?
Or how important is Saudi goingto be moving forward, in
particular, obviously inrelation to the event?
Mike Wayne (21:24):
industry.
It's interesting Maybe 15 yearsago we were working in Saudi
Arabia and doing projects and wetake everything from here and
go in there and deliver projects, fly things in from Europe,
deliver the projects and thencome back.
You know, great, wonderfulplace, great projects.
Saudi will grow.
There's no doubt about it.
It will grow.
It's going through what I callthe gold rush season, which will
(21:46):
come to an end.
I think it probably is.
People are starting to read,revisit budgets, see the true
sustainability of what they'retrying to do, and then it will
grow a reasonable pace.
It's been very fast paced overthe last few years, to say the
least.
Do I think it will be asustainable market?
Yes, I do.
I think it'll be a huge marketfor everybody, but I think the
(22:08):
UAE is ahead by far and I thinkthe UAE stands to stay ahead if
they keep doing what they'redoing.
Looking at the events that thesectors are doing very well,
both DTCM and ADTA in Abu Dhabiare doing fantastic jobs of
keeping people as UAE as numberone in the region.
(22:29):
You know Saudi Arabia will taketime to come to where the UAE
is and I think they're just alittle bit too far behind, and
it doesn't matter how much moneyyou throw at it.
It takes time to build thatacross the world.
You know we're talking aboutinternational visitors.
Saudi Arabia has its ownvisitors internally that they
can just service, but on theglobal stage I think the UAE is
(22:50):
the place to be.
Ian Carless (22:52):
So moving tax slightly.
I mean, you mentioned thisearlier in the conversation.
We work in an incrediblystressful industry.
You know short deadlines, highpressure, high stakes.
How, then, you know, when welive in such a stressful or work
in such a stressful industry,mental health has become
increasingly important, has it,hasn't it, as it has throughout
(23:13):
the world in pretty much everyindustry, and I know that's
something you're pretty hot onat the moment.
Do you want to talk about that?
Mike Wayne (23:19):
yeah, I'm, you know, I'm very, I'm very close to it.
I haven't had my own uhchallenges over the over the
years likewise been in thisindustry.
I don't think anyone within theevents industry hasn't had some
form of mental issue or concernor, you know, sleepless nights,
whatever you want to term it.
But I think the world is nowgiving things a name.
You know there is anxiety,there is everything.
(23:40):
As soon as you give things aname mental health, etc.
Then people can relate to it,then you can address it.
I think the key is people haveto accept it and address it,
because everyone suffers.
There's no two ways about itthe pressure release you'll find
people on events, the buildupand the pressure of the event
the following week after theystop and then they're sick.
(24:01):
It is very important to allowtime for mental health and for
people to address it and also tobe aware of it.
Because at any time somethingcan happen.
We've got more suicides thanever in the uk.
Uh, events, industry happening.
You know it's getting betterbecause people are addressing it
and people have been aware.
But you know, as guys we don'twant to go and talk about it.
(24:22):
We, you know it's a bit of anembarrassment, it's a bit of a
but the more people talk aboutit, the better.
Better, and I spoke about theMiddle East event show last year
on mental health because it isdefinitely an issue that only
the individuals can sort out.
The businesses can point you inthe right direction and help
you, but as an individual youhave to take it on yourself and
your friends and colleaguesaround you can try and help
(24:45):
identify any issues that may bethere.
And it's a very delicatesubject.
Ian Carless (24:52):
Do you think, as somebody that's perhaps been on
both sides of that, you know andlike myself, you know that
we've had stressful times andtimes of, you know, great
discomfort.
Do you think it's the onus ison?
You alluded to it just then,but do you think the onus is on
the individual, or is there morethat corporations and companies
, employers can be doing as wellto help?
Mike Wayne (25:30):
no-transcript, know, and I thought that was funny at
the time and it was a joke andit was ongoing.
Should I say something alongthose lines?
These days, the anxiety and thestress that that would cause
people when they leave of, youknow, do they feel they should
be doing more is wrong andthat's the education piece
(25:50):
that's helped.
So, being empathetic towardsthem.
And you know, making surepeople get enough rest days, you
know recovery days, you know isimportant, you know, for their
own mental well-being.
You know you want the most outof your staff and teams that are
doing.
And you know, in our industry,if you're're in this industry,
(26:12):
you are committed 150 percent toa project.
Ian Carless (26:15):
Do you think that it's something that's the
recognition is where it shouldbe within our industry?
Mike Wayne (26:22):
no, no, there's a long way to go, you know, and
that that's you know.
We've got budget pressures.
We've got people saying you'retoo expensive.
You've got, you know, clientsnot necessarily accepting it,
but yet in their own industriesthey accept it.
But why don't they accept itfor the event industry, their
procurement teams?
Why are your rates so expensive?
Well, they're not.
The market rates are the marketrates.
(26:44):
These are the rates.
Ian Carless (26:47):
One of the things you could throw back there is,
as we all know, timelines.
Maybe my stress will be managedif you gave us a little bit
more time to work on this event.
Mike Wayne (26:56):
Yeah, I mean that's been a lifelong thing.
I mean time's got shorter andshorter, but I actually do think
there is a bit more planninggoing ahead now, especially as
people look more towards theinternational type events.
But there is planning in, butthere is.
You'll never have pure planningacross everything.
You will always have the lastminute events what have you done
differently then?
Ian Carless (27:16):
do you think to manage your own sort of mental
health in that, in that space?
Mike Wayne (27:20):
I think I've become a lot more selective.
You know, the power of no isdefinitely more rigid than it
was many years ago, because whenyou're off you just want to
chase and run and you thinkyou're invincible.
You can run 150 miles an hour,which I'm sure I could in the
old days, I think.
But I think now we just get abit more.
(27:42):
We measure the risk.
I think that is the key ismeasuring your risk and what it
takes, and is it worth thereward at the end of the end of
the tunnel?
Ian Carless (27:53):
do you think we mellow with age as well?
Mike Wayne (27:56):
I don't think we necessarily mellow.
I think we just don't mellows.
It mellows an interesting word.
Yeah, I.
I think we become a little bitmore reserved and wiser.
I think that gray is truly alittle bit more of a wiser.
You know, there is alwayssomeone younger and faster
behind you, you know like boxingcareers.
(28:18):
You know there's always someonestronger and faster behind you.
You know they're short careers,but yeah, I think it's a young
man's sport to be running 100miles an hour.
Yeah, but you know, we havethat knowledge.
You know as we get older andhopefully we can pass that on to
others.
That's the key.
Ian Carless (28:37):
Very true.
Well, before we wrap up, I'vebeen asking everybody this.
I'm a bit of a music fan.
The vinyl collection is growingagain.
What's on your playlist at themoment?
What are you listening to inthe car?
Mike Wayne (28:55):
That's again what's on your playlist at the moment.
What are you listening to inthe car?
That's interesting actually.
I've actually gone back.
I've actually gone way back andlet me think, sing.
I've gone way back.
Yeah, no, I'm actuallylistening to a bit of rap at the
moment, funnily enough.
Yeah, mc dmc, I wouldn't putyou around.
Nobody would, nobody Jumparound, nobody would, nobody
would.
But I don't know why.
I don't know if it's lyrical, Idon't know if it's just a time.
I've sort of flashback.
I like all music, don't get mewrong.
(29:16):
I like all genres of music.
I actually love country musicand I think it's because the
stories in it it's the same asthe events industry.
You haven't got anything.
So you know, stories in countrymusic is second to none.
Rapping is very similar if yousit back.
Ian Carless (29:39):
And for anybody listening to this, I'm now sat
across a Mike Wayne who'slooking a little bit like Kenny.
Loggins at the moment, ohGetting that country reference
no exactly.
And just to wrap up, what areyou looking forward to?
Mike Wayne (29:51):
I'm looking forward to this year.
Actually, I think this year isgoing to be quite an exciting
year.
I think 2025, we're going tosee a lot of resets, you know,
politically across the world.
Hopefully we'll see somestability coming back in and
some wisdom and just some action, really just to reset
everything and build up sopeople can be positive, because
(30:12):
I think the last few years havebeen quite negative and quite
down, but yet here in the uaecertainly, and saudi arabia as
well although let's focus on theuae because that's where we are
is had an exceptional year andI think that can just continue
and can grow with stability, andI think 2025 is going to be a
(30:35):
year of forward motion is what Ithink.
I think we're going to see a lotmore intimate events, as you
said earlier.
I think they will continue.
I think we're seeing, you know,a large number of high net
worth individuals coming inwanting to have interesting
events.
Yeah, I think we'll see somebigger giga events.
We're seeing a lot morefestivals going on.
(30:56):
I think there'll be more andmore festivals, because it's an
area where people can cometogether both families,
communities.
So you, you're enabling bothbalance of people spending time
with their families and havingfun and engaging.
I still think you'll see supplychain issues and talent issues
going on across the region, frommaterials through to the talent
(31:17):
.
I still think that will stay inplace, but I'm really looking
forward to the forward motion of2025, which is what I think
everybody should be lookingforward to.
That wave is there, even thoughbusinesses may be down in some
sectors, but I believe it willtruly push through in 2025.
Ian Carless (31:35):
Mike, thank you very much for coming in and
thanks for joining me.
Mike Wayne (31:38):
No, thanks very much for having me.
It's been a pleasure after allthese years.
Ian Carless (31:41):
Mustn't leave it this long.
Mike Wayne (31:42):
Sitting across from you seeing your face.
I'll see you in 25 years next,but no, it's been fantastic
really.
Ian Carless (31:50):
So you in 25 years next, but no, it's been
fantastic, really.
So thank you for having me.
You're welcome.
Event news dxb was presented bymyself, ian carlos, the studio
engineer and editor was roy demonte, the executive producer
was myself and joe morrison, andthis podcast is a co-production
between warehouse 4 and w4podcast studio dubai, and if you
haven't done so already, pleasedo click that follow or
subscribe button.
See you next time.
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