November 6, 2025 • 42 mins
What happens when men start tapping into their emotional intelligence? How might our lives transform if we stopped trying to "cover all streets with leather" and instead crafted shoes to protect our own feet?
In this powerful conversation with men's coach Stefanos Koutsoupis, we explore the profound disconnect many successful men experience—achieving external goals while feeling something essential is missing from their lives. Stefanos shares his journey from physicist to men's coach, revealing how his own search for meaning led him to discover the untapped potential of emotional awareness.
We dive deep into what happens in men's groups, where even first-time participants show remarkable courage in sharing their struggles. From divorce and homelessness to health crises brought on by work stress, men are carrying heavy burdens often without the tools to process them. Yet when given a safe space and clear ground rules, they're ready to be vulnerable in ways that challenge our cultural scripts about masculinity.
The conversation illuminates how men have been conditioned to approach life solely through logic, effectively operating with only half their cognitive capacity. By integrating emotional intelligence with rational thinking, men develop the ability to make decisions that align with their deeper values rather than external expectations. This integration doesn't weaken men—it empowers them to build more authentic connections, regulate stress responses, and tap into creativity.
For those feeling stuck in circular thinking or isolated despite social connections, this episode offers practical insights including Stefanos' "First Aid Kit" for men—daily practices that create immediate relief from stress and overwhelm. Whether you're curious about men's work or already on the journey, you'll discover why consistent practice and community support are essential to developing the relationships and self-awareness that make life meaningful.
Ready to transform your approach to connection and purpose? This conversation might just be your first step.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Are you ready to break free from hesitation,
self-doubt and isolation?
Do you want to lead withconfidence, build powerful
connections and live boldly?
I'm Cory Baum and I'm here toshare the most impactful
strategies and mindsets thatI've learned through coaching,
leadership and real-worldexperience.
Together, we'll forgeunshakable confidence, master
social dynamics and create alife rooted in purpose,
(00:27):
brotherhood and bold action.
Inside, you'll get the toolsand insights to become the
strongest, most connectedversion of yourself.
Let's dive in, all right.
Well, welcome everyone to theEvolvement Podcast.
I've got with me today StefanosKoutsoupis, and he is a fellow
men's coach that I've got on theshow.
I'm really excited to talk tohim.
(00:48):
So, stefanos, why don't youtell us a little bit about
yourself and kind of yourjourney along the way, as to
what brought you here?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for having me here, and it's
very nice to to meet othercoaches working with men,
because I think it's a really,really underrepresented the
world out there for for men inmental health and coaching and
therapy and psychotherapy.
So about my journey you know Iinitially, you know, studying.
(01:22):
I was a physicist.
I did the PhD, I worked acouple of years in research
before pivoting at some point tobusiness and to IT and to
project management.
So I've been doing very well inmy professional life in
research.
I was doing very well in myprofessional life later on in
(01:45):
business, and still there wassomething that was budging me
and I was doing a zillionhobbies, I was trying a lot of
different things, I was meetinga lot of people and still this
feeling of you know, somethingwas disturbing me, something was
not right and I couldn't tellwhat disturbing me.
(02:07):
Something was not right and Icouldn't tell what.
So, more or less things startedwhen, when I tried to look for
that answer and I did thisthrough, initially, a
self-development group I was, Ifound, in my town and later
through therapy, that and thosetwo things are that helped me
really come in terms that, okay,okay, I'm a human being.
I do have some emotional needswhich are not met and I don't
(02:30):
have yet the tools to handlethem.
And I worked a lot withcognitive therapy and I learned,
you know, to understand thepatterns of mind and what make
me tick.
So this is one part.
In the meantime, I learnedabout mindfulness and I
practiced a lot and it worked inparallel with therapy and it
(02:54):
made waters.
I know it's something I stilldo, practice today, every day,
and at some point I found outalso about coaching, and
coaching came to me as an answerto you know, I'm having this
conversation with Corey and Iknow I'm right.
Why can't I make him see mypoint?
(03:14):
And you know coaching replied,gave me this answer that you
know you can't make someone elsebelieve anything.
The solution comes and theanswers come from within.
So this is the speed version,speed dating version, of what
brought me here today.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, yeah.
So with that, I know that youhost men's groups where you're
at right, not only men's groupsbut as well as coaching.
Tell me a little bit aboutthose men's groups and kind of
what your experience have beenabout the men that are showing
up and some of the strugglesthat they're dealing with as
(03:54):
they're there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, I'm always amazed by the people coming in,
about how open they are tocollaborating and sharing with
other men even from the firsttime.
As soon as you set some groundrules about confidentiality and
about not telling other peoplewhat to do, they are ready to
(04:22):
share.
And there are very heavysubjects coming up.
There are men who are divorcedand they don't have a place to
stay.
Or there are men that theirwork has taken such a big toll
on their lives that they endedup sick, sick, overweight, not
(04:45):
being able to move.
So those are some of thetoughest situations.
But more or less what I see inmen is that they really, really
and this is true, there was truefor me and it still is to some
extent it's super, super hard tounderstand what is bothering
(05:08):
them, what brought them heretoday.
I mean, people are coming intheir room and they're not sure
what is happening.
And you know this is not ourstrong point understanding our
feelings, our emotions, whatmake us tick.
So without doing this, it'ssuper hard to actually find a
(05:30):
solution to your problemsbecause you are not problem
aware at all.
You know something is buggingyou, but you don't know what it
is.
Maybe it's your wife, maybeit's your job, maybe you are
unlucky and something is wrongalways on their external factors
, and we're trying to changethat.
So this is why men are coming.
They are trying to change theirexternal factors, with no
(05:53):
success for so long that theystart seeking for help.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, definitely I resonate with that.
So, it sounds like for you thata lot of these guys maybe and I
think it's the case with a lotof men is that they're so in
their head or they're used toapproaching things from this
logical sort of standpoint right, that they can only go in
circles so many times beforethey're like man I.
This isn't working for me.
(06:20):
I keep doing the same thing andkeep getting the same results,
and there might actually besomething to exploring how it is
that I feel about it or theseother sort of things.
How has that?
How has that journey been foryou and the group?
You know, I imagine, that thereis probably a certain part of
(06:40):
the population that shows upthat is, I don't want to say
like hesitant or resistant oranything like that, but it's
just new to them.
They don't know anything aboutit.
How has that journey been foryou and the men along that path?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
You know, I never expected what will happen that
people will be coming and beready to participate, and
starting in the first meetings,I was very held back because I
didn't know how far I can go orhow far I can ask.
And what I found out is thatmen are carrying a lot of
(07:22):
courage with them to share andbe open.
They are always happy and theyare looking forward sharing
their knowledge and their lifelessons with other people.
So most men are coming.
They have burned in their livesone or twice and they are
saying, okay, I'm here, I'velearned something.
I want to teach other peopleabout this.
(07:46):
So this sharing mindset issomething I love.
I see that the men who arecoming you know they don't care
that much about what I do interms of work, of coaching, of
self-development.
Maybe they have seen some ofthese things.
They don't care, they don'tbelieve them, but they do care a
(08:09):
lot about the community andthey do strongly believe in
having other people in yourenvironment that can support you
in your journey.
So this is something big.
This is something you know.
We have to tap more into it,because men are looking for
(08:30):
friends, men are looking formentors, for support, and they
can't find it.
Actually, you know, they justbumped into my group, for
example.
They didn't know I existed.
Nothing similar is in thiscountry at least you know, I'm
based in Greece and they bumpinto it and they like it, and
they like what they see and it'ssomething new to them.
(08:52):
So, yes, tapping into thiscommunity, it's, it's something
we should do more, because theyneed it more.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, definitely.
What do you think?
What do you think it is thatkeeps men from searching those
sort of things out or resonatingwith that sort of environment
Right I mean on the flip side ofthat, right there's there's
women's groups where this is thenorm, right that everybody's
showing up and doing it.
(09:21):
Like, how do men get in thisspace of of one?
Not you know?
And part of what we talkedabout before the show is that
there is a real need forcommunity, and it's not just
necessarily about I think it'sgreat when they end up in a
place where they are vulnerableand they're challenged by other
men, but I think that overall,the, the men, don't have the
(09:44):
same number of friendships nowthat they have in the past.
And so what do you think it isthat kind of finds men in this
place of low number of,especially a low number of like
deep, intimate connections?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What I know, you know and it'sfrom my personal experience a
lot, and from what I know as aman is we have no clue about
sharing.
We want always to save face, toappear strong, to appear stoic
Like we have all the answers.
Yeah, and it's funny, you know,because if you go to find, for
(10:30):
example, an alpha male in movies, if you end up in a James Bond
movie, you have this guy who'salways in control, zero emotions
, he knows everything and thisis what we are trying and
envision to be some sort of sucha character.
But those are not realcharacters, those are not real
(10:51):
men at all.
So we have no idea of what aman looks like.
We tend to men, men.
We tend to go into communitiesand they can be business
communities, they can be sportsclubs.
You can go out with friendsfriends in a pub for a beer, you
(11:12):
know, but you don't have thosevulnerable discussions because
you have learned that youshouldn't have them.
What happens at your housestays at your house.
You need to appear strong, evento your friends.
It's funny, you know, this is mywork and sometimes a friend
might call me, mention an issuethey're having and I feel the
(11:35):
rush to change the subject,because I still don't feel
comfortable when someone isopening up and it's the same for
me and same for other men thatwe're not feeling comfortable
about opening up ourselves orhearing other people comfortable
about opening up ourselves orhearing other people.
(11:55):
And we really needed, you know,in the men's group, to create
the ground rules and the space,the emotionally safe space, for
people to to feel that okay,it's okay to do that.
This is this is my best answerthat we're not primed for that,
we are not taught how to, to dothat and it won't happen on its
own.
You know, having those deepconversations, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
You know, as you mentioned, that I'm thinking
watching with my kids marvelmovies, right, like these action
figures you got captain americaand iron man and all of these
sort of things.
And like Iron Man's not, he'snot necessarily breaking down
and like sharing his feelingsand sharing with the other
character that never has a badday, that never needs anything.
(12:43):
And, interestingly, one of thetopics that we talked about
(13:04):
recently in my men's group isand it's something that's come
up a lot is leadership and whatleadership looks like.
You know, and really what wedug into in that time was that
leadership isn't always aboutone having all the answers right
, doing everything right.
(13:24):
That, if anything, that'sprobably that that sort of
mentality probably inhibitsgrowth, right, and that sense of
progress and leadership andthings like that.
That it's not.
Until you actually maybe stepback and allow others the
opportunity, you know thatyou're sharing with them and
you're connecting with them andyou allow others to kind of take
(13:48):
the lead, that real wholesomesort of leadership really kind
of happens.
So what, what do you feel likefrom your perspective?
What sort of changes arepossible when, when a man does
kind of start this journey andstart opening up to explore it.
You know, and this isn'tobviously, you know I've done it
(14:10):
and you've done it and we we'vebeen in groups for a while, so
I know that it's not, it's not asoftening of going to that side
of things, right, that thatthere's a real sort of like I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's I.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I picture it as like a, a glowing right, A radiance
of like kind of coming to lifeand coming to yourself, maybe
for the first time in your life.
But from your experience, whatdo you feel like is possible
when men start to explore this?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You know, we have this big part of our brain that
is totally untapped and we don'tuse it, and it's our emotional
brain and you know, as men,we're not very good in
emotionally regulating ourselves.
So this is a part for growthand this is something we can
(15:08):
really.
You know, you can make yourbrain smarter, you can be
smarter.
This is the the answer thatpeople who start tapping into
their feelings and becomingvulnerable learn how to take
smarter decisions, fasterdecisions, because they train
their their brain to and use itas a whole both their logical
(15:33):
brains and their emotional brainto get to faster, better
decisions that are betteraligned with what they really
want.
This is an example I'm alwaysgiving and it's not a funny one,
but it's about lobotomizedpeople.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You know, in the 1900s, when they would do this
operation to separate thelogical brain from the emotional
brain and people oh, and you'retalking about like when they,
when they do, when they get alobotomy, like they, actually go
in and take a piece out.
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And when you have your frontal lobes, you know,
separated from the emotionalparts of your brain, you
couldn't take any decisions atall.
I mean like what to eat or ifyou want to sleep or lie down or
get up.
And we're very close to thatbecause we do take decisions,
(16:29):
but only logical decisions.
But you know, there are somethings that you can't decide
logically, like where do youwant to stay, or who to marry,
or how many children you stillhave.
These are the things that mencoming to the groups are
struggling with.
They know how to take logicaldecisions, but those decisions
(16:51):
don't have any meaning behindthem.
They don't mean anything tothem, so they don't have the
scale to tell them what theyshould do.
And you know you either go intothe FOMO approach, like I have
to do everything, or you becomevery cynic and say, okay, I
(17:12):
won't do nothing, this is mylife, I'll be like this, I'll be
bitter until I'm 70.
So this is the change that Isee.
That is happening.
People are becoming smarter.
They are taking decisions thatthey support with their hearts
better, they are more sure ofthemselves.
(17:33):
You know, this is howself-esteem and self-confidence
is built From doing things.
You believe in them and you cando a hundred great things and
people will clap you because youare such a great leader.
But if you don't believe inyour decisions and all the
validation you are getting isexternal, then you'll never have
(17:55):
the confidence, you'll neverhave the self-esteem to put
behind this and you will neverrelax.
Actually, you can never letyour guard down like this.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You know, one of the things that reminds me of so I
have part of my program is aman's guide to self-leadership,
and in that we we talk a lotabout this model, this be do
have model.
I don't know if it's somethingthat you're familiar with, but
how a lot of times, especiallyas men, that we go about it kind
of the wrong way and it canshow up in different ways.
(18:29):
Kind of the wrong way and itcan show up in different ways.
One that like, hey, if I, if Ihave these things, or if I buy
these things, then I'll be ableto do these sort of things and
as a result of that, I'll becomethis sort of person, right?
Or there's also, if I, if Ijust go out and I work really
(18:50):
hard, I work my face off and asa result of that, I'll get to
buy all of these sorts of thingsand then I'll get to be that
person, then in the end I'll getto be that person.
But the reality is is reallystarting from who is it who?
Who do I want to be Like?
What matters to me?
What are my values?
What's the core?
What matters to me?
(19:11):
What are my values?
What's the core?
And then from that decidingwhat needs to be done in order
to be that person, and as aresult of that, as a by-product
of that, you have the life thatyou want to live, but it all
goes back.
And this was the same way forme that I don't know in the
beginning, when I started on myjourney, that I had ever really
(19:32):
asked myself well one.
I had never considered what mycore values were, right, but I'd
never stopped and taken thetime to ask myself, like, how do
I feel about this?
Why is why is this important tome, right?
Or what is important to me?
And and I think those are timeswhere you, as a man, have to
(19:54):
like, stop and ask yourself,like, how do I feel about this?
And when we don't have theskills to be able to feel, then
we pick up.
I think, from a lot of times wepick up what it is that we're
supposed to, who we're supposedto be from everybody else, who
we're supposed to be fromeverybody else, right?
Well, you know, the way to besuccessful is to work your face
off, never spend any time withyour family and have a lot of
(20:17):
money, like you know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So, yeah, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
I was reading today a story youknow it's a story for children
and it says that there was thisking, this very wealthy king,
and once he had to go out of thestreet to meet the villagers,
the road was just dirt.
(20:40):
So he was walking with no shoesbecause at that time there were
no shoes.
He was walking on the dirt andhis feet were hurt and swollen
and he was very angry with that,that he had to do this to his
body.
So he called every person whowas working with leather in his
(21:01):
village and he asked them tocover all the streets with
leather so when he walked hewouldn't have to hurt his feet.
And someone told him okay, thiswill be a very hard project.
Maybe it will be easier tocreate something to cover your
feet.
And this is how they createdshoes.
This is the same story.
(21:23):
The king was trying to changeall the external factors to
solve the problem and he wouldhave to do this huge effort.
That would cost a lot and wouldtake a lot of resources, but
the solution was within.
He could just protect his feet.
And it's like this, you know,exactly like your story.
You can have all the checkmarks.
(21:46):
You can have all the successes,you can buy all the things, get
all the money and it willimprove your life to some extent
, for certain.
But as long as you don't workwith yourself and fix the things
that bother you on the inside,you will never be fulfilled.
This has no bottom.
(22:08):
Actually, there is not a peakhigh enough that will make you
happy if you don't feel happy inthe first place you know, he
(22:31):
went back to the leather makerand was like, hey, line the
streets with leathers.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Like, oh man, that's, that's so funny.
Like, hey, let's just put thisblanket, let's cover the world
with leather and I'll never haveto worry about it again,
instead of, like, going back andlooking at how you personally
could address this for yourself.
Right, what is this?
What can I do?
What kind of action that I take?
Right, and maybe you can tellother men after that.
(22:53):
Hey man, I put these leatherthings on the bottom of my feet
and my entire life changed.
Okay, cool, but you had to dothe work for yourself in the
beginning.
So I love that story, the menthat you work with and the men
in your group that you have somesort of like a first aid kit
(23:14):
for men that are starting to dothe work, that are doing the
work as a way to handle stressand situations and feelings and
things like that.
What's in that toolkit?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, I've been meeting a lot of people and I
was feeling the same and I stilldo feel the same at some points
, but less and less thatsometimes I'm too stressed or
sometimes I want to quiteverything and stop being.
And you know, we can pivot inour lives, but quitting life is
(23:48):
not an option actually.
So we have to keep goingthrough and I started writing an
article with things that I didand helped me personally, and I
ended up creating a small guidewith five habits someone can
incorporate and have immediaterelief in how they are feeling.
(24:13):
You know, these feelings ofstress, of want to quit, there
are some habits of our mind,there are some inclinations we
have and it's good to recognizethis because this is our
patterns.
This is how I'm clocked or howsomeone else is clocked, how I'm
clocked or how someone else isclocked.
So the habits that I describe,they are there to work in 180
(24:39):
degrees the opposite direction,make your mind inclined for the
best.
You know, I have them as aguide, but as a quick reference.
There are some things you cando daily, like they can use
detox, stop learning bad thingsor connect with people, but you
know, real connections, practicea bit of mindfulness.
(25:02):
You know, 10 minutes per daycan work wonders.
This is, you know, there is anexample I'm giving, always about
habits, because it's a hardidea to grasp and it's not
enough, you know, listening to apodcast, finding a guru,
reading a book, it's not enoughhaving the information about
(25:25):
something.
I mean, I know that washing myteeth every night will help my
gums be healthy, but if I justread it and I don't do it daily,
then it won't work.
It's the same with our minds.
We do have a lot of negativepatterns, a lot of bad habits.
(25:48):
We think negatively a lot.
This is how we are built.
So we need some kind of way ofmental hygiene and we need to do
it daily.
And those are the habits weneed to build.
And it's not enough justknowing that.
Okay, I shouldn't have badthoughts, but you should really,
(26:10):
for example, practice gratitudeand do it daily and do it
intentionally.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I totally resonate with all of that.
I one of the things that comesup for me along the way.
You know, and I've, it's almostlike that there's this earned
sense of confidence, right, thatit's not to your point, you
can't just think your way intohealthy teeth, right.
(26:39):
That you actually have to dothe work and it's not until you
do the work that there's.
I feel like there's, and itgoes back to this be do have.
I feel like there's thismindset that like, hey, I, I
need to do these things so thatI can become confident, so that
I can come out and go out.
And once I'm confident, thenI'll go out and do these things
(27:02):
Right.
But the reality is that in mostcases, and whatever it is, it
doesn't have to just beconfidence or brushing your
teeth or whatever it is, butlike you have to actually brush
your teeth first.
That's like the key ingredient.
You know, and I have found formyself that a lot of times it's
navigating all of the stories.
You know whether it's theinternal or the external or how
(27:24):
it is that I'm going to dealwith it ahead of time, but still
in the end, just going out andtaking that action, right.
So if it's approaching somebodyin public and introducing
myself, spending some time andhaving navigated, like what it
is that I'm afraid of, right,all of the other possibilities,
(27:45):
but at the end of that I stilljust have, like the real fruit
comes from, just going out anddoing it.
So how do you success as a partof that kit?
What do you, you know, what doyou suggest that?
How do you suggest that menapproach those sorts of things?
Because it's, it's easy enoughto just say like, oh, okay, like
(28:09):
I'll, I'll add more gratitudein my life, as you kind of
mentioned.
But how do you suggest that mengo about implementing these
sorts of things into their life?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
you know you need to to approach this as a habit or
as a ritual, as something youyou do every day.
I mean you, you take a showerevery day and you eat every day.
You know if you have just onelunch, it won't last you for a
week, so so you need to to bethere.
It needs consistency.
(28:44):
You know I can read a hundredbooks about working out, but in
no chance I will go to sleeptonight and wake up tomorrow and
I'll be shredded, like, forexample, I need to do the work,
I need to to eat healthy, orit's actually what I need to
(29:05):
grow.
I need to go to the gym fivetimes per week.
And it's the same thing forevery habit we are trying to
build, and especially for thosehabits that involve the brain,
because we know that we need tobuild those new pathways, those
new neurons, and it takes time.
(29:25):
So this is how I tell to peopleto approach this.
Approach it as a ritual, do itevery day.
After some time it becomeseasier and easier and you start
to see the results.
And the results won't come toin day one, they might come in
day seven, but if you keeppracticing for longer and longer
(29:47):
, this is where your life ischanging.
This is, you know, a big partof the western philosophy.
We trust a lot our logicalbrains and the information that
we're having.
If you go to the westernphilosophies, people would
repeat the same exercise foreverand ever and ever.
(30:08):
And this is the Tao.
You do the same thing day afterday after day, and this is the
road to mastery.
So this is true we need time tolearn.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Repetition is the road to mastery, even in the
simpler tasks or in the even thesimpler habits yeah, you know,
from what you're saying, I hearlike a lot of consistency in
there of like, hey, that thisday in and day out, that doing
the same thing with repetitionfor myself.
(30:41):
Long ago from one of my mentorsI picked up like a essentially
like a habit tracker where I itwas.
For me it was in Excel, right,I do so much in Excel and I
would have my goals across thetop and maybe the dates down the
side, the extent where I wouldactually every day, you know,
(31:09):
marking a yes or a no, that Ispent 15 minutes salsa dancing
or I got in the cold plunge,right, or I did these sorts of
things to where I could lookover the course of a week and
over a month what my, what myconsistent consistency
percentages were Right, and Ican see that over the course of
the month, like you know, thateither I had a really high or a
really low consistency.
And then it gave me anopportunity to to look at and
(31:32):
evaluate and fit, you know, tolook at why was it I wasn't
meeting my goals, right, whatwas what is important to me,
what's not important to me?
But but being that level ofintentional and tracking where
it is that I want to go, orwhat's important.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, you know, tracking and getting stats is a
big part in business and Iunderstand a lot of the men that
you're working with are leaders, they're managers, so in their
work they do track progress,they do have their key
performance indices, they domeasure stuff.
(32:13):
If this works in a businessenvironment, then it will work
in a personal environment aswell.
And I do something somethingsimilar.
I do have some KPIs in myclients and help them define
them for themselves and thentrack them, because it's easy,
(32:33):
you know, to fall back into thehabit of just thinking,
overthinking and procrastinating, and our minds can tell the
difference between thinkingabout something or actually
doing the work.
But if I think all day aboutthat salsa class I should do and
I never go because I'm stressedin the end of the night I'll
(32:57):
still be exhausted and have zeroexperience because my mind was
thinking about it.
So my mind is exhausted but Ido have the zero experience and
we have to track it sometimesand people totally underestimate
this and once you have them,you know if they are on a diet.
If you have them track how manytimes they eat sweets in their
(33:22):
week, they will be amazedbecause they might be doing, for
example, every day, in smalldoses.
They forget, but they do itevery day and it's important to
track what we do.
In these things we want toimprove at least.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And as you're saying that, Ifeel like I find myself back in
this logical place, right, likeyou say, I have KPIs.
It's really easy to get rightback into that.
But it is that ebb and flowbetween that and I think,
especially as men, that I find,at least for myself, that I do
(33:59):
enjoy looking at things at timesfrom that perspective of being
able to make it very logical andbreak it down right that, how
am I doing this?
But it takes both that logicalside and the emotional side to
go back I think and questionyourself like okay, well, I can
understand logistically why itis that now I can see that I am
(34:20):
or I am not doing this.
Now I can see that I am or I amnot doing this.
Why am I not doing it Right anddigging into the emotions
around?
That is interesting.
I'd like to, as we continue on,kind of get back to a little
bit of the men's group and youworking with men and what, from
(34:41):
your experience, has been someof the changes that have
happened for the men that haveshown up for you and done the
work either with you or in themen's group.
What sort of realizations havethey realized in their life.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
But men start building different kinds of
relationships with other people,not only with the men in their
group, but they startquestioning all of their
relationships.
They start having deeperconversations with people they
(35:24):
already had the existingrelationships with.
So this is what is moreinteresting for me that they
change how they approach thework, the world in general.
There are smaller life changeshappening, like someone getting
a raise, a promotion or startingsomething of its own, which are
the good side results of thegroup, because you know people,
(35:47):
once they get some, once theyare released from the stress
they live, they become a bitmore creative, they see more
opportunities and they go afterthose opportunities.
So somehow they end upimproving as well their external
factors in their lives, becausethey are more ready for that.
But the biggest part is howthey approach relationships and
(36:11):
how they approach friends andhow they get some.
You know there are things thatwe don't know.
No one taught us in school howto make a relationship.
It just happened.
You know to sit with that guyand you are still friends 20
years down the road.
But learning how to makefriends from scratch is a life
(36:31):
skill Learning how to managetough times for yourself so you
won't indulge into rage orself-doubt is a new skill into
rage or self-doubt is a newskill by being able to
emotionally regulate yourselfbetter and this is something men
(36:53):
are taking from the groups thenyou are ready to take more
educated decisions in your life.
It doesn't matter if you are,you know in in the, if you're
driving your car and someonegets you and you learn how to
(37:14):
process the trades, or if thisis your boss and you are afraid
of him and you freeze every timeand you're still be able there
to process that feeling and comeback with a better answer for
yourself, a better way to handlethe situation, whatever that is
.
So, if I sum up, the two thingsI see are that people are
(37:39):
learning to connect better withother friends, men or women or
their parents or whoever, andthey also learn how to process
their emotions in a way that ishelpful for them and supports
their goals, instead of, youknow, not helping them.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, totally, I totally resonate with that
(38:50):
no-transcript that it's expectedthat you picked up on it
magically along the way.
Magically along the way.
But there's not a whole lot ofemphasis that goes into learning
and developing these sort ofskills, and so it yeah, that
(39:12):
people are kind of out to theirdefend for themselves and don't
realize that it carries over toso many different things in
their life that it's soimportant.
So, yeah, well, hey, what, whatwould you say?
Is we kind of start to wrap uphere, stefanos, what?
What would you say to the manthat's on the outside right now?
(39:36):
That's, I guess, kind of likelost in their life and looking
for hope and don't know where tolook.
And maybe they're they'relooking for the first time and
getting support through either amen's group or coaching or
something like that.
What advice would you give tothat man?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I would give the advice to experiment a bit.
Give it a couple of tries andcome up with some solutions that
may be there for him.
It can be group, it can betherapy, it can be trying, a new
experience.
But I will say, just go and tryit and trust your gut and if
(40:12):
you think that it's working,then it is really working.
I'm speaking with a lot of menwho say, okay, that therapy oh,
that's good for other people,coaching is good, but for other
people, therapy oh, that's goodfor other people, coaching is
good, but for other people.
Well, if you think thatsomething is good for other
people, then most probably it'sgood for you as well.
So give it a try.
(40:34):
You know it's no shame intrying definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Well, hey, stefanos, I've loved talking with you
today.
This has been been.
It's been great to get to knowyou.
How can the men that arelistening here get a hold of you
or get in touch with you orfollow your work a little bit
more to find out about who youare and what you do?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
this guide, the first aid kit I created there.
People can find me also on inmeetup, but I'll give you the
links where people can find myevents and everything and I
think this is the best way tofollow with me and if anyone
feels like he wants toexperiment, you can join.
You know, your group, my group,have an experience and a voice
of his own, actually.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, again, Stefanos, thanksfor coming on the show and, of
course, we'll have any of theinformation in the show notes of
how to get a hold of Stefanos.
And yeah, it was a pleasure, itwas a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Nice speaking to you, Corey.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Hey, before you go, this podcast is just the surface
.
It was a pleasure, nice, firstto claim your spot.
If you're tired of going tolife alone and you're ready for
true accountability, support andconnection with men who get it
head to evolvemenprojectcom,slash brotherhood, don't just
listen.
Step into the Brotherhood, I'llsee you inside.
Are you ready to break free from hesitation,
self-doubt and isolation?
Do you want to lead withconfidence, build powerful
connections and live boldly?
I'm Cory Baum and I'm here toshare the most impactful
strategies and mindsets thatI've learned through coaching,
leadership and real-worldexperience.
Together, we'll forgeunshakable confidence, master
social dynamics and create alife rooted in purpose,
(00:27):
brotherhood and bold action.
Inside, you'll get the toolsand insights to become the
strongest, most connectedversion of yourself.
Let's dive in, all right.
Well, welcome everyone to theEvolvement Podcast.
I've got with me today StefanosKoutsoupis, and he is a fellow
men's coach that I've got on theshow.
I'm really excited to talk tohim.
(00:48):
So, stefanos, why don't youtell us a little bit about
yourself and kind of yourjourney along the way, as to
what brought you here?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for having me here, and it's
very nice to to meet othercoaches working with men,
because I think it's a really,really underrepresented the
world out there for for men inmental health and coaching and
therapy and psychotherapy.
So about my journey you know Iinitially, you know, studying.
(01:22):
I was a physicist.
I did the PhD, I worked acouple of years in research
before pivoting at some point tobusiness and to IT and to
project management.
So I've been doing very well inmy professional life in
research.
I was doing very well in myprofessional life later on in
(01:45):
business, and still there wassomething that was budging me
and I was doing a zillionhobbies, I was trying a lot of
different things, I was meetinga lot of people and still this
feeling of you know, somethingwas disturbing me, something was
not right and I couldn't tellwhat disturbing me.
(02:07):
Something was not right and Icouldn't tell what.
So, more or less things startedwhen, when I tried to look for
that answer and I did thisthrough, initially, a
self-development group I was, Ifound, in my town and later
through therapy, that and thosetwo things are that helped me
really come in terms that, okay,okay, I'm a human being.
I do have some emotional needswhich are not met and I don't
(02:30):
have yet the tools to handlethem.
And I worked a lot withcognitive therapy and I learned,
you know, to understand thepatterns of mind and what make
me tick.
So this is one part.
In the meantime, I learnedabout mindfulness and I
practiced a lot and it worked inparallel with therapy and it
(02:54):
made waters.
I know it's something I stilldo, practice today, every day,
and at some point I found outalso about coaching, and
coaching came to me as an answerto you know, I'm having this
conversation with Corey and Iknow I'm right.
Why can't I make him see mypoint?
(03:14):
And you know coaching replied,gave me this answer that you
know you can't make someone elsebelieve anything.
The solution comes and theanswers come from within.
So this is the speed version,speed dating version, of what
brought me here today.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, yeah.
So with that, I know that youhost men's groups where you're
at right, not only men's groupsbut as well as coaching.
Tell me a little bit aboutthose men's groups and kind of
what your experience have beenabout the men that are showing
up and some of the strugglesthat they're dealing with as
(03:54):
they're there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, I'm always amazed by the people coming in,
about how open they are tocollaborating and sharing with
other men even from the firsttime.
As soon as you set some groundrules about confidentiality and
about not telling other peoplewhat to do, they are ready to
(04:22):
share.
And there are very heavysubjects coming up.
There are men who are divorcedand they don't have a place to
stay.
Or there are men that theirwork has taken such a big toll
on their lives that they endedup sick, sick, overweight, not
(04:45):
being able to move.
So those are some of thetoughest situations.
But more or less what I see inmen is that they really, really
and this is true, there was truefor me and it still is to some
extent it's super, super hard tounderstand what is bothering
(05:08):
them, what brought them heretoday.
I mean, people are coming intheir room and they're not sure
what is happening.
And you know this is not ourstrong point understanding our
feelings, our emotions, whatmake us tick.
So without doing this, it'ssuper hard to actually find a
(05:30):
solution to your problemsbecause you are not problem
aware at all.
You know something is buggingyou, but you don't know what it
is.
Maybe it's your wife, maybeit's your job, maybe you are
unlucky and something is wrongalways on their external factors
, and we're trying to changethat.
So this is why men are coming.
They are trying to change theirexternal factors, with no
(05:53):
success for so long that theystart seeking for help.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, definitely I resonate with that.
So, it sounds like for you thata lot of these guys maybe and I
think it's the case with a lotof men is that they're so in
their head or they're used toapproaching things from this
logical sort of standpoint right, that they can only go in
circles so many times beforethey're like man I.
This isn't working for me.
(06:20):
I keep doing the same thing andkeep getting the same results,
and there might actually besomething to exploring how it is
that I feel about it or theseother sort of things.
How has that?
How has that journey been foryou and the group?
You know, I imagine, that thereis probably a certain part of
(06:40):
the population that shows upthat is, I don't want to say
like hesitant or resistant oranything like that, but it's
just new to them.
They don't know anything aboutit.
How has that journey been foryou and the men along that path?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
You know, I never expected what will happen that
people will be coming and beready to participate, and
starting in the first meetings,I was very held back because I
didn't know how far I can go orhow far I can ask.
And what I found out is thatmen are carrying a lot of
(07:22):
courage with them to share andbe open.
They are always happy and theyare looking forward sharing
their knowledge and their lifelessons with other people.
So most men are coming.
They have burned in their livesone or twice and they are
saying, okay, I'm here, I'velearned something.
I want to teach other peopleabout this.
(07:46):
So this sharing mindset issomething I love.
I see that the men who arecoming you know they don't care
that much about what I do interms of work, of coaching, of
self-development.
Maybe they have seen some ofthese things.
They don't care, they don'tbelieve them, but they do care a
(08:09):
lot about the community andthey do strongly believe in
having other people in yourenvironment that can support you
in your journey.
So this is something big.
This is something you know.
We have to tap more into it,because men are looking for
(08:30):
friends, men are looking formentors, for support, and they
can't find it.
Actually, you know, they justbumped into my group, for
example.
They didn't know I existed.
Nothing similar is in thiscountry at least you know, I'm
based in Greece and they bumpinto it and they like it, and
they like what they see and it'ssomething new to them.
(08:52):
So, yes, tapping into thiscommunity, it's, it's something
we should do more, because theyneed it more.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, definitely.
What do you think?
What do you think it is thatkeeps men from searching those
sort of things out or resonatingwith that sort of environment
Right I mean on the flip side ofthat, right there's there's
women's groups where this is thenorm, right that everybody's
showing up and doing it.
(09:21):
Like, how do men get in thisspace of of one?
Not you know?
And part of what we talkedabout before the show is that
there is a real need forcommunity, and it's not just
necessarily about I think it'sgreat when they end up in a
place where they are vulnerableand they're challenged by other
men, but I think that overall,the, the men, don't have the
(09:44):
same number of friendships nowthat they have in the past.
And so what do you think it isthat kind of finds men in this
place of low number of,especially a low number of like
deep, intimate connections?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What I know, you know and it'sfrom my personal experience a
lot, and from what I know as aman is we have no clue about
sharing.
We want always to save face, toappear strong, to appear stoic
Like we have all the answers.
Yeah, and it's funny, you know,because if you go to find, for
(10:30):
example, an alpha male in movies, if you end up in a James Bond
movie, you have this guy who'salways in control, zero emotions
, he knows everything and thisis what we are trying and
envision to be some sort of sucha character.
But those are not realcharacters, those are not real
(10:51):
men at all.
So we have no idea of what aman looks like.
We tend to men, men.
We tend to go into communitiesand they can be business
communities, they can be sportsclubs.
You can go out with friendsfriends in a pub for a beer, you
(11:12):
know, but you don't have thosevulnerable discussions because
you have learned that youshouldn't have them.
What happens at your housestays at your house.
You need to appear strong, evento your friends.
It's funny, you know, this is mywork and sometimes a friend
might call me, mention an issuethey're having and I feel the
(11:35):
rush to change the subject,because I still don't feel
comfortable when someone isopening up and it's the same for
me and same for other men thatwe're not feeling comfortable
about opening up ourselves orhearing other people comfortable
about opening up ourselves orhearing other people.
(11:55):
And we really needed, you know,in the men's group, to create
the ground rules and the space,the emotionally safe space, for
people to to feel that okay,it's okay to do that.
This is this is my best answerthat we're not primed for that,
we are not taught how to, to dothat and it won't happen on its
own.
You know, having those deepconversations, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
You know, as you mentioned, that I'm thinking
watching with my kids marvelmovies, right, like these action
figures you got captain americaand iron man and all of these
sort of things.
And like Iron Man's not, he'snot necessarily breaking down
and like sharing his feelingsand sharing with the other
character that never has a badday, that never needs anything.
(12:43):
And, interestingly, one of thetopics that we talked about
(13:04):
recently in my men's group isand it's something that's come
up a lot is leadership and whatleadership looks like.
You know, and really what wedug into in that time was that
leadership isn't always aboutone having all the answers right
, doing everything right.
(13:24):
That, if anything, that'sprobably that that sort of
mentality probably inhibitsgrowth, right, and that sense of
progress and leadership andthings like that.
That it's not.
Until you actually maybe stepback and allow others the
opportunity, you know thatyou're sharing with them and
you're connecting with them andyou allow others to kind of take
(13:48):
the lead, that real wholesomesort of leadership really kind
of happens.
So what, what do you feel likefrom your perspective?
What sort of changes arepossible when, when a man does
kind of start this journey andstart opening up to explore it.
You know, and this isn'tobviously, you know I've done it
(14:10):
and you've done it and we we'vebeen in groups for a while, so
I know that it's not, it's not asoftening of going to that side
of things, right, that thatthere's a real sort of like I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's I.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I picture it as like a, a glowing right, A radiance
of like kind of coming to lifeand coming to yourself, maybe
for the first time in your life.
But from your experience, whatdo you feel like is possible
when men start to explore this?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You know, we have this big part of our brain that
is totally untapped and we don'tuse it, and it's our emotional
brain and you know, as men,we're not very good in
emotionally regulating ourselves.
So this is a part for growthand this is something we can
(15:08):
really.
You know, you can make yourbrain smarter, you can be
smarter.
This is the the answer thatpeople who start tapping into
their feelings and becomingvulnerable learn how to take
smarter decisions, fasterdecisions, because they train
their their brain to and use itas a whole both their logical
(15:33):
brains and their emotional brainto get to faster, better
decisions that are betteraligned with what they really
want.
This is an example I'm alwaysgiving and it's not a funny one,
but it's about lobotomizedpeople.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You know, in the 1900s, when they would do this
operation to separate thelogical brain from the emotional
brain and people oh, and you'retalking about like when they,
when they do, when they get alobotomy, like they, actually go
in and take a piece out.
Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And when you have your frontal lobes, you know,
separated from the emotionalparts of your brain, you
couldn't take any decisions atall.
I mean like what to eat or ifyou want to sleep or lie down or
get up.
And we're very close to thatbecause we do take decisions,
(16:29):
but only logical decisions.
But you know, there are somethings that you can't decide
logically, like where do youwant to stay, or who to marry,
or how many children you stillhave.
These are the things that mencoming to the groups are
struggling with.
They know how to take logicaldecisions, but those decisions
(16:51):
don't have any meaning behindthem.
They don't mean anything tothem, so they don't have the
scale to tell them what theyshould do.
And you know you either go intothe FOMO approach, like I have
to do everything, or you becomevery cynic and say, okay, I
(17:12):
won't do nothing, this is mylife, I'll be like this, I'll be
bitter until I'm 70.
So this is the change that Isee.
That is happening.
People are becoming smarter.
They are taking decisions thatthey support with their hearts
better, they are more sure ofthemselves.
(17:33):
You know, this is howself-esteem and self-confidence
is built From doing things.
You believe in them and you cando a hundred great things and
people will clap you because youare such a great leader.
But if you don't believe inyour decisions and all the
validation you are getting isexternal, then you'll never have
(17:55):
the confidence, you'll neverhave the self-esteem to put
behind this and you will neverrelax.
Actually, you can never letyour guard down like this.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You know, one of the things that reminds me of so I
have part of my program is aman's guide to self-leadership,
and in that we we talk a lotabout this model, this be do
have model.
I don't know if it's somethingthat you're familiar with, but
how a lot of times, especiallyas men, that we go about it kind
of the wrong way and it canshow up in different ways.
(18:29):
Kind of the wrong way and itcan show up in different ways.
One that like, hey, if I, if Ihave these things, or if I buy
these things, then I'll be ableto do these sort of things and
as a result of that, I'll becomethis sort of person, right?
Or there's also, if I, if Ijust go out and I work really
(18:50):
hard, I work my face off and asa result of that, I'll get to
buy all of these sorts of thingsand then I'll get to be that
person, then in the end I'll getto be that person.
But the reality is is reallystarting from who is it who?
Who do I want to be Like?
What matters to me?
What are my values?
What's the core?
What matters to me?
(19:11):
What are my values?
What's the core?
And then from that decidingwhat needs to be done in order
to be that person, and as aresult of that, as a by-product
of that, you have the life thatyou want to live, but it all
goes back.
And this was the same way forme that I don't know in the
beginning, when I started on myjourney, that I had ever really
(19:32):
asked myself well one.
I had never considered what mycore values were, right, but I'd
never stopped and taken thetime to ask myself, like, how do
I feel about this?
Why is why is this important tome, right?
Or what is important to me?
And and I think those are timeswhere you, as a man, have to
(19:54):
like, stop and ask yourself,like, how do I feel about this?
And when we don't have theskills to be able to feel, then
we pick up.
I think, from a lot of times wepick up what it is that we're
supposed to, who we're supposedto be from everybody else, who
we're supposed to be fromeverybody else, right?
Well, you know, the way to besuccessful is to work your face
off, never spend any time withyour family and have a lot of
(20:17):
money, like you know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So, yeah, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
I was reading today a story youknow it's a story for children
and it says that there was thisking, this very wealthy king,
and once he had to go out of thestreet to meet the villagers,
the road was just dirt.
(20:40):
So he was walking with no shoesbecause at that time there were
no shoes.
He was walking on the dirt andhis feet were hurt and swollen
and he was very angry with that,that he had to do this to his
body.
So he called every person whowas working with leather in his
(21:01):
village and he asked them tocover all the streets with
leather so when he walked hewouldn't have to hurt his feet.
And someone told him okay, thiswill be a very hard project.
Maybe it will be easier tocreate something to cover your
feet.
And this is how they createdshoes.
This is the same story.
(21:23):
The king was trying to changeall the external factors to
solve the problem and he wouldhave to do this huge effort.
That would cost a lot and wouldtake a lot of resources, but
the solution was within.
He could just protect his feet.
And it's like this, you know,exactly like your story.
You can have all the checkmarks.
(21:46):
You can have all the successes,you can buy all the things, get
all the money and it willimprove your life to some extent
, for certain.
But as long as you don't workwith yourself and fix the things
that bother you on the inside,you will never be fulfilled.
This has no bottom.
(22:08):
Actually, there is not a peakhigh enough that will make you
happy if you don't feel happy inthe first place you know, he
(22:31):
went back to the leather makerand was like, hey, line the
streets with leathers.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Like, oh man, that's, that's so funny.
Like, hey, let's just put thisblanket, let's cover the world
with leather and I'll never haveto worry about it again,
instead of, like, going back andlooking at how you personally
could address this for yourself.
Right, what is this?
What can I do?
What kind of action that I take?
Right, and maybe you can tellother men after that.
(22:53):
Hey man, I put these leatherthings on the bottom of my feet
and my entire life changed.
Okay, cool, but you had to dothe work for yourself in the
beginning.
So I love that story, the menthat you work with and the men
in your group that you have somesort of like a first aid kit
(23:14):
for men that are starting to dothe work, that are doing the
work as a way to handle stressand situations and feelings and
things like that.
What's in that toolkit?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, I've been meeting a lot of people and I
was feeling the same and I stilldo feel the same at some points
, but less and less thatsometimes I'm too stressed or
sometimes I want to quiteverything and stop being.
And you know, we can pivot inour lives, but quitting life is
(23:48):
not an option actually.
So we have to keep goingthrough and I started writing an
article with things that I didand helped me personally, and I
ended up creating a small guidewith five habits someone can
incorporate and have immediaterelief in how they are feeling.
(24:13):
You know, these feelings ofstress, of want to quit, there
are some habits of our mind,there are some inclinations we
have and it's good to recognizethis because this is our
patterns.
This is how I'm clocked or howsomeone else is clocked, how I'm
clocked or how someone else isclocked.
So the habits that I describe,they are there to work in 180
(24:39):
degrees the opposite direction,make your mind inclined for the
best.
You know, I have them as aguide, but as a quick reference.
There are some things you cando daily, like they can use
detox, stop learning bad thingsor connect with people, but you
know, real connections, practicea bit of mindfulness.
(25:02):
You know, 10 minutes per daycan work wonders.
This is, you know, there is anexample I'm giving, always about
habits, because it's a hardidea to grasp and it's not
enough, you know, listening to apodcast, finding a guru,
reading a book, it's not enoughhaving the information about
(25:25):
something.
I mean, I know that washing myteeth every night will help my
gums be healthy, but if I justread it and I don't do it daily,
then it won't work.
It's the same with our minds.
We do have a lot of negativepatterns, a lot of bad habits.
(25:48):
We think negatively a lot.
This is how we are built.
So we need some kind of way ofmental hygiene and we need to do
it daily.
And those are the habits weneed to build.
And it's not enough justknowing that.
Okay, I shouldn't have badthoughts, but you should really,
(26:10):
for example, practice gratitudeand do it daily and do it
intentionally.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I totally resonate with all of that.
I one of the things that comesup for me along the way.
You know, and I've, it's almostlike that there's this earned
sense of confidence, right, thatit's not to your point, you
can't just think your way intohealthy teeth, right.
(26:39):
That you actually have to dothe work and it's not until you
do the work that there's.
I feel like there's, and itgoes back to this be do have.
I feel like there's thismindset that like, hey, I, I
need to do these things so thatI can become confident, so that
I can come out and go out.
And once I'm confident, thenI'll go out and do these things
(27:02):
Right.
But the reality is that in mostcases, and whatever it is, it
doesn't have to just beconfidence or brushing your
teeth or whatever it is, butlike you have to actually brush
your teeth first.
That's like the key ingredient.
You know, and I have found formyself that a lot of times it's
navigating all of the stories.
You know whether it's theinternal or the external or how
(27:24):
it is that I'm going to dealwith it ahead of time, but still
in the end, just going out andtaking that action, right.
So if it's approaching somebodyin public and introducing
myself, spending some time andhaving navigated, like what it
is that I'm afraid of, right,all of the other possibilities,
(27:45):
but at the end of that I stilljust have, like the real fruit
comes from, just going out anddoing it.
So how do you success as a partof that kit?
What do you, you know, what doyou suggest that?
How do you suggest that menapproach those sorts of things?
Because it's, it's easy enoughto just say like, oh, okay, like
(28:09):
I'll, I'll add more gratitudein my life, as you kind of
mentioned.
But how do you suggest that mengo about implementing these
sorts of things into their life?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
you know you need to to approach this as a habit or
as a ritual, as something youyou do every day.
I mean you, you take a showerevery day and you eat every day.
You know if you have just onelunch, it won't last you for a
week, so so you need to to bethere.
It needs consistency.
(28:44):
You know I can read a hundredbooks about working out, but in
no chance I will go to sleeptonight and wake up tomorrow and
I'll be shredded, like, forexample, I need to do the work,
I need to to eat healthy, orit's actually what I need to
(29:05):
grow.
I need to go to the gym fivetimes per week.
And it's the same thing forevery habit we are trying to
build, and especially for thosehabits that involve the brain,
because we know that we need tobuild those new pathways, those
new neurons, and it takes time.
(29:25):
So this is how I tell to peopleto approach this.
Approach it as a ritual, do itevery day.
After some time it becomeseasier and easier and you start
to see the results.
And the results won't come toin day one, they might come in
day seven, but if you keeppracticing for longer and longer
(29:47):
, this is where your life ischanging.
This is, you know, a big partof the western philosophy.
We trust a lot our logicalbrains and the information that
we're having.
If you go to the westernphilosophies, people would
repeat the same exercise foreverand ever and ever.
(30:08):
And this is the Tao.
You do the same thing day afterday after day, and this is the
road to mastery.
So this is true we need time tolearn.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Repetition is the road to mastery, even in the
simpler tasks or in the even thesimpler habits yeah, you know,
from what you're saying, I hearlike a lot of consistency in
there of like, hey, that thisday in and day out, that doing
the same thing with repetitionfor myself.
(30:41):
Long ago from one of my mentorsI picked up like a essentially
like a habit tracker where I itwas.
For me it was in Excel, right,I do so much in Excel and I
would have my goals across thetop and maybe the dates down the
side, the extent where I wouldactually every day, you know,
(31:09):
marking a yes or a no, that Ispent 15 minutes salsa dancing
or I got in the cold plunge,right, or I did these sorts of
things to where I could lookover the course of a week and
over a month what my, what myconsistent consistency
percentages were Right, and Ican see that over the course of
the month, like you know, thateither I had a really high or a
really low consistency.
And then it gave me anopportunity to to look at and
(31:32):
evaluate and fit, you know, tolook at why was it I wasn't
meeting my goals, right, whatwas what is important to me,
what's not important to me?
But but being that level ofintentional and tracking where
it is that I want to go, orwhat's important.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, you know, tracking and getting stats is a
big part in business and Iunderstand a lot of the men that
you're working with are leaders, they're managers, so in their
work they do track progress,they do have their key
performance indices, they domeasure stuff.
(32:13):
If this works in a businessenvironment, then it will work
in a personal environment aswell.
And I do something somethingsimilar.
I do have some KPIs in myclients and help them define
them for themselves and thentrack them, because it's easy,
(32:33):
you know, to fall back into thehabit of just thinking,
overthinking and procrastinating, and our minds can tell the
difference between thinkingabout something or actually
doing the work.
But if I think all day aboutthat salsa class I should do and
I never go because I'm stressedin the end of the night I'll
(32:57):
still be exhausted and have zeroexperience because my mind was
thinking about it.
So my mind is exhausted but Ido have the zero experience and
we have to track it sometimesand people totally underestimate
this and once you have them,you know if they are on a diet.
If you have them track how manytimes they eat sweets in their
(33:22):
week, they will be amazedbecause they might be doing, for
example, every day, in smalldoses.
They forget, but they do itevery day and it's important to
track what we do.
In these things we want toimprove at least.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And as you're saying that, Ifeel like I find myself back in
this logical place, right, likeyou say, I have KPIs.
It's really easy to get rightback into that.
But it is that ebb and flowbetween that and I think,
especially as men, that I find,at least for myself, that I do
(33:59):
enjoy looking at things at timesfrom that perspective of being
able to make it very logical andbreak it down right that, how
am I doing this?
But it takes both that logicalside and the emotional side to
go back I think and questionyourself like okay, well, I can
understand logistically why itis that now I can see that I am
(34:20):
or I am not doing this.
Now I can see that I am or I amnot doing this.
Why am I not doing it Right anddigging into the emotions
around?
That is interesting.
I'd like to, as we continue on,kind of get back to a little
bit of the men's group and youworking with men and what, from
(34:41):
your experience, has been someof the changes that have
happened for the men that haveshown up for you and done the
work either with you or in themen's group.
What sort of realizations havethey realized in their life.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
But men start building different kinds of
relationships with other people,not only with the men in their
group, but they startquestioning all of their
relationships.
They start having deeperconversations with people they
(35:24):
already had the existingrelationships with.
So this is what is moreinteresting for me that they
change how they approach thework, the world in general.
There are smaller life changeshappening, like someone getting
a raise, a promotion or startingsomething of its own, which are
the good side results of thegroup, because you know people,
(35:47):
once they get some, once theyare released from the stress
they live, they become a bitmore creative, they see more
opportunities and they go afterthose opportunities.
So somehow they end upimproving as well their external
factors in their lives, becausethey are more ready for that.
But the biggest part is howthey approach relationships and
(36:11):
how they approach friends andhow they get some.
You know there are things thatwe don't know.
No one taught us in school howto make a relationship.
It just happened.
You know to sit with that guyand you are still friends 20
years down the road.
But learning how to makefriends from scratch is a life
(36:31):
skill Learning how to managetough times for yourself so you
won't indulge into rage orself-doubt is a new skill into
rage or self-doubt is a newskill by being able to
emotionally regulate yourselfbetter and this is something men
(36:53):
are taking from the groups thenyou are ready to take more
educated decisions in your life.
It doesn't matter if you are,you know in in the, if you're
driving your car and someonegets you and you learn how to
(37:14):
process the trades, or if thisis your boss and you are afraid
of him and you freeze every timeand you're still be able there
to process that feeling and comeback with a better answer for
yourself, a better way to handlethe situation, whatever that is
.
So, if I sum up, the two thingsI see are that people are
(37:39):
learning to connect better withother friends, men or women or
their parents or whoever, andthey also learn how to process
their emotions in a way that ishelpful for them and supports
their goals, instead of, youknow, not helping them.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, totally, I totally resonate with that
(38:50):
no-transcript that it's expectedthat you picked up on it
magically along the way.
Magically along the way.
But there's not a whole lot ofemphasis that goes into learning
and developing these sort ofskills, and so it yeah, that
(39:12):
people are kind of out to theirdefend for themselves and don't
realize that it carries over toso many different things in
their life that it's soimportant.
So, yeah, well, hey, what, whatwould you say?
Is we kind of start to wrap uphere, stefanos, what?
What would you say to the manthat's on the outside right now?
(39:36):
That's, I guess, kind of likelost in their life and looking
for hope and don't know where tolook.
And maybe they're they'relooking for the first time and
getting support through either amen's group or coaching or
something like that.
What advice would you give tothat man?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I would give the advice to experiment a bit.
Give it a couple of tries andcome up with some solutions that
may be there for him.
It can be group, it can betherapy, it can be trying, a new
experience.
But I will say, just go and tryit and trust your gut and if
(40:12):
you think that it's working,then it is really working.
I'm speaking with a lot of menwho say, okay, that therapy oh,
that's good for other people,coaching is good, but for other
people, therapy oh, that's goodfor other people, coaching is
good, but for other people.
Well, if you think thatsomething is good for other
people, then most probably it'sgood for you as well.
So give it a try.
(40:34):
You know it's no shame intrying definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Well, hey, stefanos, I've loved talking with you
today.
This has been been.
It's been great to get to knowyou.
How can the men that arelistening here get a hold of you
or get in touch with you orfollow your work a little bit
more to find out about who youare and what you do?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
this guide, the first aid kit I created there.
People can find me also on inmeetup, but I'll give you the
links where people can find myevents and everything and I
think this is the best way tofollow with me and if anyone
feels like he wants toexperiment, you can join.
You know, your group, my group,have an experience and a voice
of his own, actually.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, again, Stefanos, thanksfor coming on the show and, of
course, we'll have any of theinformation in the show notes of
how to get a hold of Stefanos.
And yeah, it was a pleasure, itwas a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Nice speaking to you, Corey.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Hey, before you go, this podcast is just the surface
.
It was a pleasure, nice, firstto claim your spot.
If you're tired of going tolife alone and you're ready for
true accountability, support andconnection with men who get it
head to evolvemenprojectcom,slash brotherhood, don't just
listen.
Step into the Brotherhood, I'llsee you inside.
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