November 13, 2025 • 57 mins
If you’ve ever felt a tug in your gut that didn’t match the story in your head, this conversation will feel like a map and a mirror. We sit down with Andrew Carruthers to unpack what an “inner compass” really is, how to hear it beneath fear and habit, and why your body often tells the truth before your mind catches up. From early sparks in faith and Buddhism to a life coach’s core values work, Andrew traces how love, wisdom, harmony, and success became daily anchors—turning vague intuition into practical guidance.
We get specific about the mechanics of trust. Andrew shares how losing his voice revealed a protection pattern and how somatic signals—tightness, gravel, strain—became early warnings of misalignment. You’ll learn how to turn gym time or a walk into mindfulness, why even a 5% shift from autopilot to awareness changes relationships, and how to integrate head and heart without demonizing thought. We explore sovereignty under pressure from mentors and “shoulds,” using community as a mirror while maintaining discernment: take what rings true, release what doesn’t.
This is wayfinding, not rule-following. Andrew describes his evolution from Wayfinder to Wayfarer—choosing to walk beside clients rather than plot their path—so they can build a compass they actually trust. We talk presence, patience, and the long arc of calibration through trial, reflection, and small courageous choices. If you’re craving clarity without outsourcing your life, you’ll walk away with practices to listen to your body, align with your values, and make decisions you can stand behind.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. Ready for real accountability and connection? Join the Evolve Men Brotherhood waitlist and step into a circle that sharpens your compass.
Andrew Carruthers -
IG - https://www.instagram.com/andrew.carruthers/
Website - https://outofstep.life/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
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(00:25):
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Brotherhood and be a part of themovement.
Today I'm joined by my friendAndrew Carruthers, and we're
diving into something that'sboth deeply challenging, and
(00:46):
that's trusting our innercompass.
We're we're going to explorewhat that means, how it shows up
in our lives, and what it lookslike to actually follow it, even
when it's not the easy road.
So, Andrew, man, I'm excited tohave you here.
And I'd love to start by justasking you when you think about
(01:07):
your inner compass, what doesthat mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Hmm.
Well, that's a good questionbecause it's pretty layered.
To me, I guess on the simplestlevel, it's that it's internal
director of like how I want tomove within my life, who I want
to be, how I want to show up,the decisions I want to make,
(01:33):
but from a from a place of Iguess what I might refer to as
kind of like higher self or trueself, versus being maybe
misguided by parts of me thatjust want to seek pleasure or
just get some type of need medor or potentially are just
acting out of fear.
(01:53):
I feel like following my innercompass, I would say that when
I'm yeah, following thedirection of more uh true self
or higher self.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Yeah.
Was there a time, like how didit come to be, right?
When we talk about innercompass, I I feel like for
myself, the for most of my life,I I I wasn't even aware that I
was carrying around a compass.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople talk about, you know, and
I don't know if that's a senseof morals or guidance or spirit
(02:29):
or whatever it is, but was therewas there a moment for you when
you feel like you realized thatthat it was there and and that
you couldn't ignore it anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
I think I got my first hint when um in um well I
I guess actually if I if I evendrill back a little bit further,
um the first hint was probablywhen I joined like a Christian
youth group way back in my likeearly teens.
I think I was like 13 or 14years old.
(03:05):
And I think that was kind of thefirst time that I really um got
a sense that there was somethinghigher, I guess is is the term I
would put to it.
And while that youth groupdidn't really last and I ended
up you know not following thatpath, the real part that I I can
(03:25):
really draw back to is in highschool, I started to really get
into Buddhism.
And it was because I had uh Ihad this really great teacher in
a philosophy class that he hadkind of introduced me to that
concept.
And my best friend Josh and I,we would go to Borders Bookstore
(03:47):
and get like a huge coffee andget all of the Buddhist books
off of the shelves and like justsit in the Borders bookstore
coffee shop and read theseBuddhist books.
And then he and I started todabble in meditation.
We didn't really have a teacheror anything.
We were just going based off ofthese things that we were seeing
with in the books we werereading.
(04:07):
But we started meditating.
And I think that was the firsttime that I really truly
connected to something where Iwas like, oh, okay, there's
there's a uh me, and thenthere's like big picture me.
Like there's not just one personhere, there's kind of like
multiple levels, and I thinkthat's when I really started to
(04:29):
come more clear that sometimes Iwas acting from what I now know
is kind of more thatsubconscious self, or acting
more from a conscious, higherconscious self.
And so I think that was that wasthe first introduction to it or
(04:49):
peak behind the curtain.
But it was, I think it wasreally when I started to work
with my first life coach, LynnChristian.
That that was really the firsttime that I was introduced to
quote deeper work, you know,really recognizing the
difference between thesubconscious needs and our kind
(05:13):
of parts that form based off ofthe experiences we have, the
beliefs that are formed withinthe subconscious, and how strong
they can really guide us, versusmore consciously in deciding
kind of some of the things thatyou pointed towards.
Like one of the first thingsthat Lynn took me through was my
core values exercise.
(05:34):
And I got to at that point, itwas love, wisdom, harmony, and
success were my four corevalues.
And that was the first time thatI had really been intro
introduced to having somethingfairly defined that became more
of an inner compass because partof that process was for me to
(05:58):
each day sit with those corevalues and really look at okay,
well, how would I behave today?
What would I do today if I wastruly living from these core
values?
And what just sometimes happensin my life that's out of
alignment with these corevalues.
So I think, yeah, theintroduction, the the kind of
(06:21):
inkling was there early in life,but it wasn't until that was I
think 2003 or 2004 that I firsthired Lynn.
And I think that was when I itreally started to click that, oh
wow, like I do have somethingdeeper within me that can guide
me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Yeah, definitely.
You know, as as you were sayingthat I I was thinking about how,
you know, at different times youwere talking about the different
parts of yourself, right?
And there's there's all of theseother things that, you know,
fear or impulses or all of theseother things that that I feel
(07:01):
like almost kind of they'rethey're chattering in the
background at any given time.
You know, and I think beforefiguring out what that voice is,
what that inner compass is, andand what you talked about,
having established, you know,discovering and establishing
really your your core valuesthat that I feel like a lot of
(07:25):
these different things, thesevoices and conversations are
going on in the background.
How do you feel like foryourself that how do you
distinguish between some ofthose other things?
Like what is something that'smaybe fear or impulses, really
just those kind of things versusyour genuine inner guidance?
(07:49):
Because I I know at least formyself that I feel like at times
they could they could lookreally similar.
You know, and it's how do youbegin to differentiate for
somebody that's starting kind ofthe journey of acknowledging
that there are these differentparts of ourselves and they're
trying to establish what istheir inner compass, how do you
(08:12):
start to differentiate as towhat that is?
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
Yeah.
The the first step, I think, isdeveloping some type of practice
of greater awareness, becausewithout the awareness, the none
of it's going to become clear.
If we if we don't have some wayof looking inside and actually
seeing the thoughts and seeingthe feelings, and seeing perhaps
(08:38):
where those thoughts andfeelings even originated from
and what effect they're havinguh on the life that that we're
living, there is no way todifferentiate them because, like
as a child, we we are very muchkind of guided uh by in the
teaching around us.
(09:00):
So that can be experiences inlife, that can be teachers, that
can be our parents, that can beuh other friends.
Like in that initial childhoodstage, we're just taking in a
ton of information, and all ofthat is subconscious.
Like, well, not all of it, but95% of it is subconscious.
The subconscious is just pickingup the teachings, it's picking
(09:21):
up the experiences, and that'swhere most of our fears and our
needs and our beliefs andeverything are starting to
develop.
And it's not until later in lifethat we really do have the
ability to then kind of sit backand have greater awareness of,
oh, well, yeah, I do have thisbelief, or I do have this way of
(09:45):
being, or this habit, or thispattern of action.
But shit, man, where did thateven come from?
And is that serving me?
And is that something I want tocontinue to do?
But to get to that place, wehave to start with some type of
awareness practice.
You know, people are probablysick of hearing about
meditation, but there's a reasonthat meditation always comes up,
(10:08):
and it's one of the most directand simple ways to start to
develop a relationship withthose parts of ourselves.
And that's I do think it takestime because that first step of
just awareness.
I don't know that it is reallyvery easy to distinguish between
(10:31):
maybe this, you know,subconscious part that broke off
to protect itself from the bigscary thing that it thought it
would needed to protect itself,and then developed a habit or a
pattern, an action that it woulddo to protect itself.
I don't know at first that we'regoing to have the ability to
distinguish that from maybe thatlike deeper inner truth at
(10:55):
first, like the first time wesit down to you know have a
meditation or something.
But that first step of justawareness, I think, is the
really essential part, becausethen we'll start to know notice
more of the nuance.
And that's really where the thatdistinction can be made then.
For me, um, I think one of thethings that it really helped me
(11:19):
distinguish from subconsciousjust habits and patterns versus
real conscious thoughtful actionor thoughtful creation of you
know what what I wanted thingsto be, I I really trace it back
to when I really started to domore kind of like somatic and
(11:40):
embodiment type of work.
Because I think that, and wewere kind of talking about this
last night.
If if we don't have arelationship to the rest of the
body, if we're stuck up herejust in the head, again, it's
going to be really hard todistinguish from a supportive
thought and pattern that we'veconsciously created created
(12:01):
versus an unsupportive justhabit or pattern that's just
been there forever.
And kind of to your point, itjust sort of plays out in the
background without us evennoticing most of the time.
It's just it's like a a taperecorder on repeat that's just
tucked way back in that corner,and we're not even going to
notice it because it's alwaysbeen there.
(12:23):
And so one of the one of the biguh things that helps me is I can
tune into the sensation muchquicker and easier than I can
maybe that really hidden cornerback here, that that belief
system or that story is playingout.
I can feel in my body that, ohman, I'm like really tight.
(12:47):
I think I was telling you andAhmed last night that like one
of my things, I I had a reallycrazy experience back in 2019
where I'm almost completely lostmy voice, like my ability to
speak.
My throat just completely wasclosing up on me.
And after tons of doctors said,hey, look, there's there's
(13:10):
nothing wrong with you, man.
Like you're you're healthy,there's no reason for this to
actually be happening.
And finally, and what it came tobe through lots of other kind of
avenues of looking at this, Irealized it it was actually a
protective mechanism because in2019 I was putting myself in in
(13:31):
places within my business,especially that I wasn't feeling
safe.
I wasn't healing feeling heard,I wasn't feeling uh that I had a
place.
I was just basically using myvoice in all the wrong places
and being shut down reallyoften.
And so my body started toprotect itself.
(13:52):
It's like, all right, fuck it.
Like, if if you're not gonna beheard, then we're just gonna
stop talking.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
You're not gonna have a choice.
And so that over the course of acouple years, it developed into
a really strong habit andpattern that I still sometimes
struggle with.
But the great thing is uh it'sit's a really strong signal to
me now when I'm out of alignmentwith some of my personal truth.
(14:23):
So if the little kid in me thatwanted everyone to like him and
you know, wanted to be heard,wanted to be seen, and never
felt that he was, when he startsto show up again, and that's a
pattern, and that's somethingthat's in my subconscious, my
throat starts to close up.
(14:44):
And so now I don't really noticeat first that I'm feeling
insecure.
I'm wondering, like, oh man,does Corey think what I'm saying
right now?
Stupid, you know.
I don't notice that voice loudand clear because it's tucked
way back in the background.
It's been there for a reallylong time.
But what I will notice is, man,I'm starting to get a little
(15:06):
more like my voice is getting alittle more gravelly, it's
getting a little tighter.
And so now I can go, that oldpattern, that old habit's back.
And so I notice the physicalsensation and the physical
response of it much faster thanlike the story itself showing
up.
So for me, getting a deeperconnection to my body and to
(15:30):
what happens within my body,that has been a huge piece too
of really knowing am I operatingfrom my inner compass or am I
kind of stuck in subconsciouspatterns and habits.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Yeah.
You know, as you were sayingthat, it makes me think that I
know that I think people willsay that every day that we make,
you know, 60,000 decisions, ormaybe it's 60,000 thoughts or
something like that.
But I think that it's less aboutactually making decisions and
we're just replaying the sameframeworks, right?
That the brain's reallyefficient.
(16:07):
And so it's not necessarily evermaking any new decisions as it
is just going back andreferencing what it did the last
time and then carrying that backout.
So I think a lot of these thingsthat we go through from day to
day happen on autopilot, right?
That we're we're not eventhinking about why we made that
(16:28):
decision or whatever.
And to your point, right, goingback to maybe whether it's
childhood or society or socialmedia or whatever it is, but to
an extent that these decisionsare being made outside of like
our thought process.
And so that's a really goodpoint that you bring up that
that that there's indicatorsalong the way that that we're
(16:53):
not even noticing.
Right.
And it sounds like for you, it'sthat your your throat closes up,
but being able to like, andsometimes I I describe it as
like split stream, to be able tolike split that stream into
different feeds, you know, andyou've got maybe what's going on
in your mind, and you've gotwhat's going on to your body,
(17:14):
and to be able to be, you know,logically maybe present in the
moment, but to also feelyourself, you know, something
physiologically, right, orphysically starting to change in
you, to cue you on to like,okay, I'm still running patterns
up here, but there's this otherthing that's going like my eye
is twitching, you know, orwhatever it is.
(17:36):
Like, I know that there'ssomething going on.
And I think that's a really goodpoint of people starting to slow
down.
And I think it does take that,you know.
To your point, I thinkmeditation at times can get this
bad rap or this stigma of like,ah, you know, like woo-woo or
whatever it is.
But I think all too often wedon't slow down to enough to
(17:58):
acknowledge that these thingsare going on in our our bodies,
let alone ask actually ask us,ask ourselves why we're making
the decisions that we are.
And for myself, you know, evenjust as of recently, I've
noticed at times where and itstarted for me about a year ago.
(18:22):
I have like in my my left eye, Iwould feel almost like a I I
consider it or when I thinkabout it as like a a focus of
attention, if that makes sense.
Right.
So it's almost like it's nottwitching, it's not itchy, it's
not a thing like that, but it'slike a it's like a strain.
(18:43):
It's that when I'm focusing onsomething so intently, or you
know, that could be stress, thatcould be whatever, that this
part of my eye is like all of myfocus is drawn to that area.
And kind of similar to you,that's something for me now
that's like, oh, okay, likethere's something going on.
(19:03):
I I need to probably let go ofsomething in my body, right?
And kind of going back totrusting my inner compass and
what's kind of going on, thatit's telling me that there's
there's something right now thatI need to to kind of tune into.
So yeah.
What do you go ahead?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Oh, I was just gonna say, I I think that you know
that's part of building therelationship is being able to,
again, like we have to get to aplace that we can even notice
that something so subtle, likeyou just shared, that oh, I get
almost this like focus point inmy left eye.
Um you have to be pretty in tunewith your body.
And to your point that you know,people sometimes get a little
(19:48):
whatever about meditation.
Also remember, like, meditationdoesn't necessarily have to be
sitting on a on a pad with yourlegs crossed.
You know, the people that I workwith within my wayfaring
clientele, um, a lot of them areleaders and they're busy people.
Like they don't have time to goto the gym, then come home, do
(20:11):
like a half-hour meditation,then prepare their meals, then
do this, then get the kids up.
Like, so there does have to besome multitasking that happens.
And something that can canreally help with this is to look
at well, what can I turn into apractice of mindfulness?
So if if someone already isgoing to the gym, there is a
(20:33):
simple switch that can be madethere to turn gym time actually
into a mindfulness practice,into a meditation.
And it's to not distractourselves.
So, you know, I know for me,like when I used to go to the
gym a lot, the first thing I dois get out my phone and put on
my favorite like YouTube videoson the treadmill and stuff.
And I'm just I'm completelytuned out to my body at that
(20:56):
point, except for maybe like thepain that's starting to burn in
my you know, quads or somethingbecause I'm walking uphill.
But other than that, I'm liketuned into a screen or I'm
listening to my favorite songs.
And let me be clear, there'snothing wrong with that.
I'm just suggesting if you'resomeone that wants to
incorporate something likemeditation into your practice,
(21:16):
you're already gone to the gym,turn the gym into a meditative
practice, which means reallytuning the focus into the
experience that you're having.
And really the meditation is oh,I notice my mind is distracted,
and I'm thinking about maybewhat I'm gonna make for dinner
or where I'm gonna go next week,or like what I'm worried about
(21:39):
in the future.
You just go, oh, okay, themind's distracted.
Back to the sensation of melifting this weight and letting
me actually feel fully into mywhole body, not just like, okay,
I'm doing bicep curls, so I'mjust gonna focus on that bicep
I'm trying to build up.
Like actually feeling into thewhole body and feel how as you
(22:01):
lift that weight, it doessomething throughout the whole
body.
It's not because it's not justaffecting your bicep.
That is meditation.
It's part of the process ofbuilding deeper awareness and
also getting control of thatkind of monkey mind that
constantly wants to take us intothe past, to replay things that
(22:23):
happened in the past or take usinto the future so that we can,
you know, prepare ourselves forwhatever's gonna happen next.
It's just bringing us back intoa moment and giving ourselves
something to give the mind tofocus on.
So it doesn't, it doesn't haveto look like what we think of as
traditional meditation to justbuild uh awareness.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
What do you feel like, you know,I I I know that at least for
myself, that there can be timesto, you know, the point that you
made about the monkey mind, andthere's a lot of other things
that are that are coming andgoing.
And and for myself, as I've kindof been on this journey of of
starting to trust myself more orto know where that part of
(23:11):
myself is, that I feel at timesthat there can be a discrepancy
between what kind of my headsays, right?
As we talked about kind of thelogical sort of time part of it,
and like what my heart ispulling me into, or maybe that
that inner compass.
What do you how do youdifferentiate for yourself
(23:36):
between the head and the heartand things like that?
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Well, probably sound like a broken record, but part
of it is actually feeling intoit.
You know, I'm pretty tuned intomy body at this point, so I can
I can feel that oh man, my headis really like spinning.
It's taking over, it's reallydirecting the show versus
something that's coming frommore like my internal guidance
(24:03):
system, which might be like deepin my belly space or like deep
in my heart space.
And even like I don't want tovilify the head, because the the
head brain can be really apowerful and really supportive
intelligence within our body.
Again, it's it's aboutdistinguishing okay, is this
(24:26):
like you know, primitive monkeymind shit that's just like
driving me crazy, or is thislike really conscious
thoughtfulness?
You know, different beliefsystems believe that like even
the seat of the soul can be inthe head.
You know, there's some beliefsystems that think that the
spiritual center is thepituitary gland, something
(24:48):
that's the third eye.
In traditional Chinese medicineor qigong, they talk about shen
being in the center of the head,which shen is like the spirit
energy.
So I don't want to you know makeit seem like the head's
necessarily this bad placethat's always gonna trick us,
but even that I can feelsomething very different when
(25:11):
I'm from uh working from a veryconscious elevated mind space
versus just being stuck in likethe thoughts and subconscious
pieces.
And I I think a a another pieceof this too, Corey, is if if we
want to be able to distinguishthat, we have to start building
(25:35):
the compass too.
Because again, if if we've neversat down and consciously did
practices like the core valuespractice or really looking at
what's important to us in ourlife, what are the decisions
we're making each day?
Something as simple as like ajournaling practice.
(25:56):
If if we don't have something inplace to actually take the
awareness and look at it andsay, well, is this even what I
want?
We're always just going toreturn into exactly what you
said.
The mind is really, reallysmart.
It wants to keep us using theleast amount of energy possible.
And the least amount of energyis just to follow our old
(26:17):
patterns and habits that havebeen built over years.
Because it actually takes a tonmore energy for the body to use
the prefrontal cortex, whichmany believe is kind of like the
source of that consciousthinking mind.
It requires a ton more energy tooperate that prefrontal cortex
than it does the whole rest ofthe primitive portion of the
(26:39):
brain.
So the body wants to keep us inthose patterns and habits.
So if we haven't really takenthe time to sit down and be
like, okay, well, what do I wantto guide me?
Do I want to be guided by love?
Do I want to be guided by truth?
Do I want to be guided bycourage?
You know, like what do Iactually want to be guided by?
(27:01):
If we don't build the compass, Idon't know that there's anything
to really compare off of anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
Yeah, as you were saying that, I I had this
picture in my mind of literallylike, I don't know, almost like
a pocket watch level complexity,right?
That all of the differentcomponents that are going into
it.
And I don't think that it has tobe that complex.
You know, I mean, if you thinkif I really break it down, just
(27:29):
having, you know, an enclosure,probably some sort of a looking
passage, you know, window, aglass thing on the front of it,
you know, I'm trying to not makeit too complicated, and then a
dial to kind of read off of, andthen a magnetism that is pulling
you in the direction of truenorth, right?
(27:53):
Or what your truth kind of is.
And and I think it is just that,that it's almost like going
through a process of goingaround to different vendors and
sourcing the materials to tobuild and to calibrate that
compass over time.
(28:14):
You know, and and speaking ofthat, of of like calibration
with it, you know, I I thinkthat it's something that you
know, I don't know that it's aseasy as like a true north sort
of thing.
That well, and and maybe it isas as I think about that, that
there is actually a true north,but it's really about really
(28:36):
differentiate it's like there'sa bunch of different things in
the area that are pulling themagnetism away from what true
north is, and it's it's a bit ofa process over time to really
figure out you know, it's it'salmost like there's no
background on the compass.
And you have to figure out foryourself where true north is.
(28:59):
That it'll spin and it goes indifferent directions, but you
have to decide that foryourself.
So I'm I'm curious, kind of withthat, you know, on your journey,
like where where do you feellike you you know, where do you
still struggle maybe to to trustit fully?
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
The the piece that I still struggle with sometimes is
trusting my true north when uhespecially someone I trust in
the world that their true northis different.
Because I think as as we developourselves, just again, like as
we look back to childhood and wepretty much put our full trust
(29:43):
as far as learning and growinginto other people.
Like we have to have otherpeople to guide us, to teach us,
to show us the way.
And then as we start to age, westart to build a little bit more
autonomy, we start to think forourselves a bit more.
Then I think as we get into ouradulthood stage, that's where we
(30:04):
really start to look for kind ofair quotes truth.
So perhaps we do start aspiritual practice.
We start to maybe look formentorship.
We start to read different typesof books that have more of a
guidance to them versus justentertainment.
(30:24):
We start to really look for,okay, well, like what's the
right thing to do here?
And you know, how do I want tolive my life?
And I feel like I'm now, youknow, I'm gonna be 48 this year.
And I've been I've had thenickname Old Man Carruthers
since I was in my 20s, so I'mkind of an old 48-year-old at
(30:46):
heart.
But what I find now is most ofthe time I do feel like I've
developed my personal sovereignsense of true north.
And I follow it well for themost part.
(31:07):
What rocks me at times is whenI'm in the presence of other
people that I have a lot ofrespect for.
Or if I picture them to havepotentially more wisdom or more
experience in a certain area oflife, that's where I start to
doubt myself sometimes.
(31:28):
Where I see you, oh man, thatyou know, this person's making
this decision, and they'resaying that this is the right
way, and that I should believethis, and I should want these
things, or I should picturethings in a certain way.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
It's a lot of shudd.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Exactly.
It's a lot of shudd.
Yeah, shoulding all over myself.
And that is the place thatsometimes I I still get a little
off path.
But I would say that's only beenin the last maybe four or five
years of my life that I can saythat that's true.
(32:04):
I think, especially up into evenmy early 40s, I still had a
pretty shaky sense of like avery true devotion to my own
true north.
Because I think I was stilldeveloping, honestly.
I've I've dabbled in so manythings in my life, and I think a
(32:27):
lot of it looking back waslooking for someone else to tell
me, here's your true north.
You know, I tried so manydifferent spiritual paths, hope,
because I think I think ingeneral, humans want truth.
We want someone to be able tolay out in front of us and say,
here's the truth, here's how youshould think about things, how
(32:48):
here's how you should see theworld, here's how you should be
behave.
I think there's a part of usthat wants that.
And I did crave that.
And I did, you know, put my footin so many different ponds
looking for that truth allthrough, like especially in my
20s and 30s.
And it wasn't until I was kindof in my mid-40s that I was
like, oh, what I was actuallydoing was visiting these
(33:14):
different spaces.
You know, it was, I was, it'slike I was sitting in the
church, and it was like, oh, youknow what?
I like this piece of thischurch.
I'm gonna take that, I'm gonnaput it in my bag.
Okay, now I'm gonna go sit withsome like indigenous medicine
person.
And oh man, this is awesome.
(33:35):
Like, let me take this piece ofthat, and now that's gonna go
into my bag.
And I don't think I realized itduring that time, but that's
kind of that's what washappening to get me to a place
now that I do feel like I have avery kind of sovereign, unique,
true north that I've designed,like I've actually created it
for myself.
(33:56):
But it took a really long time.
And again, back to yourquestion, what can still rocket
sometimes is if if I am in thepresence of someone that I have
the a great respect for or seethem as having greater knowledge
or greater wisdom aboutsomething, um, that can still
take me off my off my course.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
Yeah, man, so much of that really resonates with
me.
I I think you know, it'sinteresting that we didn't know
each other at that time in ourlife, but I feel like I've
followed a really similarjourney in that up until even
just recently that I I struggledto make decisions for myself,
you know, and I I had just to acertain extent, like I didn't
(34:42):
know what I wanted.
I had never I had followed somuch of everybody else's
direction that that I had neverreally stopped to ask myself
like what it is that I want andwhy it is that this is important
to me.
And and like you, I I wentthrough and and it's looking
(35:03):
back, I can see it in so manydifferent how it showed up in so
many different ways in my lifeover time.
But to your point of of reallygetting out there and and
looking at different ways ofexploring that or making
decisions or curiosity.
But I found for myself at a lotof those times that that maybe
it fit one aspect of it, youknow.
(35:24):
You I would go over there and belike, oh, okay, finally, like
somebody's gonna make all of mydecisions, and I can just like
follow it and never have tothink about it again, and then
something would happen, and itwouldn't like, well, it doesn't
fit in this case, you know, andthen I'd go somewhere else and
it'd be like, Well, yeah, youknow, I mean, that's pretty
close, but there's still theseother things that it doesn't fit
(35:47):
into.
And you know, I it was finallythat after going through that so
many different times in so manyplaces and appreciating the
aspects, the wisdom that I didgain from that, but really like
figuring it out in the end thatI'm the only one that can make
these decisions, right?
(36:07):
And and especially taking intoaccount like my own life and my
own experiences and putting allof that together, that that it's
everybody's carrying aroundtheir own compass, you know,
whether they know it or not,that it's it's there, and and
(36:28):
that it's I found for myselfthat it's pretty on point, but
it is going to, you know, whenyou've got all of these other
things, as you said, like you'vegot all of these other things
that it's like holding it up andlooking at it, and you're
looking at everybody else, andyou're like, man, you know, like
imagine it like being out in thewoods, right?
And you you've got a compass andyou've been out there all day,
(36:50):
and you're like, no, I know thatthe mountain is over that
direction, right?
I can't see it through the treesright now, but I'm certain that
that's where it is, right?
But the reality is, like,probably nine and a half times
out of ten, that's where it'sat.
Like, that's the direction to begoing.
But we'll walk around in circlesover and over again, certain
(37:13):
that it's somewhere else.
As you know, as we're talkingabout that, I I keep thinking,
you know, something that'sreally important to me and and
even how we met is that thatsense of community and and
brotherhood, and to your point,right?
Like a lot of these things canget picked up by other people.
(37:37):
You know, we talked about likesocial media and society, and
like, okay, there's that's thataspect of it, but there is this
aspect of like, man, this thisguy or this brother or this
person that I hold in highregard, like what about that,
you know, and and so I thinkthat there is a role that
community and brotherhood playin in strengthening that
(37:59):
compass, right?
And and and and maybe part ofthat process is not even so much
of like showing us what thatwe're wrong in our ways, but in
maybe a sense of ofstrengthening our trust and
belief in that.
unknown (38:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:18):
What are your what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
I I fully agree.
I I think that having especiallycommunity that we trust or
leaders that we trust or mentorsthat we trust is super essential
to developing that in ourcompass aspect because there is
going to be very often thingsthat we cannot see, patterns of
behavior that we've been playingout our entire life that we are
(38:46):
completely unconscious of.
I kind of follow the multi-levelof consciousness map of, you
know, there's higherconsciousness, there's
consciousness, there'ssubconsciousness, which is a
part of us that we can stillkind of see if we look back
there with the conscious mind.
But then there's also like areally deep unconscious that
(39:10):
even if we point our eyesdirectly towards it, it can be
living in the shadows.
And it's like, holy shit, I Ihad no idea that was there.
And I've maybe done this mywhole life.
That's where I really thinkcommunity that can act as a
reflection is really essential.
You know, we we had talked aboutthis with our friend, and you
(39:33):
know, because because one of themen that that we sit with, he
was kind of like, Yeah, I wantyou guys to call me out of my
shit, you know.
And that is sometimes what isneeded by people we trust.
And, you know, for me, I've Itold you guys I don't want to be
called out of my shit.
I want to be, you know, lovinglyreflected to.
(39:59):
But, you know, that's justthat's more, you know, how we
want it to be delivered.
But the truth is, is we do needoutside voices to be able to
say, hey, you say this, you sayyou're this person, you say you
want to be like this, or youwant to act this way, and that's
not what I'm experiencing fromyou.
That's not what I'm seeing fromyou.
(40:20):
That is a lot of times how weneed to come to awareness of
those things because they are sotucked in our unconscious that
we just can't see them forourselves.
What I think is important withthis kind of stuff, and I think
this is really important even inlike reading books or having a
mentor, anything like that, isstill hearing that feedback or
(40:47):
hearing the instruction orhearing the guidance with
discernment.
And again, I think that thatcomes back to over time
developing that ability to feelinto something in a way that
it's like, huh, okay, that doesmake a lot of sense.
But honestly, there's somethinginside me that's like, that's
not for me.
(41:08):
I see that you see it that way.
I hear a very convincingargument for that point, but it
that just doesn't feel like it'sfor me.
And that's discernment.
It's being able to recognize,like, yeah, cool, that sounds
great, but I don't need to takeit on.
Or the opposite side, which islike, ooh, man, Corey just you
(41:30):
just reflected something back tome that it actually kind of
hurt, like it stung.
It kind of tapped into somethingthat is pretty sensitive there.
And not just immediately wantingto reject it because it's
uncomfortable.
That's another big piece todiscernment.
It's being able to sit with itlong enough to go, hmm.
(41:55):
Is this my self-protectionthat's coming up?
I don't want to hear it becauseit maybe suggests that I'm
something other than what Ithink I that I am.
Or do I feel a little guilt orshame that I have shown that,
shown up that way in my life?
And we that's part ofdiscernment is also being able
(42:17):
to recognize, like, oh man,yeah, there is some, I do feel
some truth to this, but it'sreally uncomfortable to be with
us right now.
So yeah, I think it's superessential that we have that
sense of community.
It's essential to have greatmentors, it's essential to have
great teachers.
And I think for me at least, abig part of that is being able
(42:41):
to receive pretty much all ofthat input that comes in, but
then also be able to sortthrough it with discernment and
really take in, yep, this ispart of my inner compass, that's
part of their inner compass, andknowing the difference.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Yeah.
So interesting.
So many, so many juicy tidbitsin there to to pull on.
It it kind of brings up the thequestion for me of like, man,
what what would the world looklike if more of us were trusting
that inner accomplice?
(43:20):
Right?
You know, I imagine this like Idon't know, that it's full of
wholesome and connection andhonesty, and I don't know, it's
uh it's a really interestingthought.
SPEAKER_00 (43:37):
It's it's a very utopian thought.
I don't know.
I I think the part of part of mypersonal mission is is to help
people to step further intoconsciousness, like to really
have more time throughout theirday that they're they're living
(43:58):
in a state of some level ofconsciousness.
Because depending on what youlook at, you know, as far as
even neuroscience data, they saythat like 95% or more of most
human beings' day is really justliving out subconscious habit
and pattern.
(44:18):
And that to me just seems like,damn, that's a lot of time to
just be living from habits andpatterns.
But again, there's a reason forit, and it's because if we tried
to stay conscious, you know,through 100% of our day, we
would probably be fuckingexhausted because it does take a
(44:39):
lot of energy to stay in thatconscious state.
So to me now it's like, can weshift it from 95 to even like
90?
Could we get to that place whereit's like more often that
conscious place is shifting intogear and saying, okay, before I
react to what my partner justsaid to me, can I take two
(45:02):
breaths and really come back tothis conversation from a
conscious place where I'mchoosing my words, not just
reacting with my words.
And to be honest with you, likeI can picture a world where if
even that happened, where it waslike a five percent shift, I
(45:25):
think that would have that thatin and of itself would have
tremendous difference,especially in how we interact
with each other, which wouldshape everything.
SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, that that utopian sort ofthing really stands out, right?
Like, is this just as crazymaking?
Like, are we on drugs?
Right, like but I I do like I Ithink so much of it as I think
about myself and presence uhespecially, you know, and I
(45:59):
think of like getting to the endof my life and looking back, you
know, something that for me as Iwas going through my my divorce
and afterwards, like something Iacknowledged or I noticed along
that journey was that I that Iwasn't very present in a lot of
things, right?
That I was sure I was likechecking the boxes and I was
(46:19):
doing the things and andwhatnot, but I was never
stopping to like smell theroses.
And and I think, you know, kindof like tying all of this back
together, I think thatrecognizing that there was an
inner compass that that wasputting out things all along the
(46:43):
way, right?
That it was there, but I just Ididn't even know that it was
that I was carrying it aroundthat and that entire time.
And it just yeah, as I thinkabout like wanting to live a
life worth living, right?
Or or living it passionately,like, yeah, I could see how it
would be exhausting to go from95 to 90 percent, right?
(47:06):
Because we're so used to notactually spending the cycles and
being inside of that moment, butbut similarly, like how much
more fulfilling each day andthat life would be if we were we
were actually there and presentfor it.
So it's a really interestingthought.
(47:27):
Well, one of the things I findreally, you know, about this
topic and and is you as well, isthat you call yourself a a
wayfinder, and and I see a lotof similarities in there between
an internal compass and kind ofwayfinding.
Do you do you want to speak tothat a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (47:45):
Yeah, because that's that's a big part of what before
I before I had my currentversion of my company and I
called myself the journeyistbecause kind of the same same
idea behind what I now refermyself to is well, I actually
changed it just recently toWayfarer instead of Wayfinder.
(48:07):
Because of yeah, just a littlenuance there, because I don't
necessarily want to find the wayfor my clients.
I will I want to help walk theway with them, which Wayfarer
kind of felt more in alignmentwith that for some reason.
I just digested that becausethat is truly what I'm I'm here
(48:28):
to do is to support this otherperson in developing that inner
compass so that they can guidethemselves.
Because again, I I will stepinto like teacher, mentor,
guide, and especially dependingon what specifically we're
working on.
But most of the time I'm reallytrying to stay in that true
(48:49):
space of I'm just walking nextto you.
And I'm I'm occasionally goingto ask you the questions that
need to be asked and reflectthings back to you that you need
to see or hear, so that you cantell me then where do you want
to take your next step and whydo you want to take that next
step?
Where is that coming from withinyou?
That that step is where you wantto go.
(49:11):
That's that development of theinner compass.
So yeah, it very much all fitsthis.
I really I I love to hike, likeI love to walk in the woods.
It's one of my absolute favoritethings to do.
And that's what I picture.
I either picture that or beingin the ocean, like captain of a
(49:32):
ship or something.
Those are the two things that Iuse a lot for my own personal
metaphors.
And so it is that aspect of justwalking with people so that they
can develop their system, theycan develop their maps, they can
develop their compass, and itfits for their specific needs.
(49:54):
Because again, what I think isright or what the things that I
have developed in my life, mybelief systems, they might not
be the right belief systems forthem.
I mean to offer them up topeople, like if they're stuck in
a place and they don't knowwhere to go, I might offer to
them, like, hey, I'm gonna sharewith you something I personally
believe, and you don't have tobelieve this, but I think it
(50:18):
might be helpful as something toconsider in this particular
situation.
But in the end, I only want themto adopt that belief as their
own, if it resonates, if it'strue for them.
unknown (50:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:32):
And I, you know, another part of this whole kind
of thought process of thejourney and and finding our way,
the only way that we can do itis to just start walking.
You know, again, kind of comingback to where I can look back at
my past and my history.
You know, we hear this all thetime.
(50:53):
Like, well, if you're notmessing up, you're you know, you
can't really learn.
And we hear something in thatthat vein.
And it's really true, though.
It's like the only way that I'mgoing to know if my compass is
in true north is to walk southsometimes and fall off a fucking
cliff and go, oh, yeah, Iprobably shouldn't do that
(51:15):
anymore.
That really sucked.
And that helps to tune thecompass back in.
It goes, oh, okay, I thoughtthat was true north.
That definitely wasn't truenorth for me because I
experienced it.
I know I have to go a differentdirection now to find true
north.
And I think that that's oftenthe way that we have to do it is
we have to just start wanderingand putting our foot on
(51:38):
different paths and be willingto make the mistake or choose
the wrong path at times.
Or, you know, I think we're soafraid to like quote waste time.
And it's like, look, man, if ifyou're on the path and you're
you're looking for the way andand you're on your journey,
(51:59):
there's no wasted time.
That that was probably what hadto happen to lead you there.
I mean, you talk about that allthe time with your experience
with your divorce and all ofthat.
Is you know, you I know that youlook back at it and you
recognize that so much of thatwas something that you had to go
through so that you could findyour true north, which is really
(52:21):
hard, man.
Like that's that's rough tothink about something as as hard
and heavy as a divorce and youknow division of a family as
maybe what is needed to find ourway, but at times it is.
SPEAKER_01 (52:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with so muchof that.
Well, hey man, as we start towrap up, I I want to really just
kind of take a moment and andsee if there is one piece of
wisdom that that you would wantthe the men listening to take
away with them, right?
(53:00):
About trusting their own innercompass.
And and if you have that, whatwould it be?
SPEAKER_00 (53:08):
The thing that jumps out right this moment as you as
you ask that question is ishonestly patience based on
exactly what we just said isdeveloping this sense of inner
compass.
There's no way to do it exceptfor time.
There's no way to do it exceptfor uh experiencing life every
(53:28):
day, and hopefully doing it in asomewhat conscious way that we
have that ability to reflect on.
Okay, I did this, I said this, Ibehaved in this way, I acted out
this urge that I had.
What happened?
How did that feel?
What did that do for me, orwhere did that take me in my
(53:49):
life?
And is that what I want tocontinue to keep doing?
It takes a long time to get to aplace that we have a strong
sense of inner guidance, and ittakes a lot of patience.
So I think that's that's reallywhat I would want people to
hear.
Especially reflecting back on myown journey.
(54:11):
There was a hell of a lot oftimes where I wanted the answer
now.
I just wanted it to be fixednow.
I wanted the experience tochange now.
I wanted clarity right now.
And looking back, it's like Icouldn't have had it.
There was nothing I could havedone.
There's no deep meditation Icould have done.
There's no contemplationpractice that I could have done
(54:33):
to give me the answer versusjust going through it, getting
to the other side, taking thetime to reflect on it, learn
from it, grow from it, andtesting something else.
So patience, friends.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
Patience.
You know, as you're saying that,I I go back to the saying of uh
it's about the journey, not thedestination.
You know, and it's it's thingslike that that growing up never
make sense in the moment.
Right?
Like, what the what the helldoes that even mean?
You know, but until you've untilyou've gone through enough of
(55:13):
those experiences to reallyappreciate that, yeah, it's not
about it's not about gettingthere.
Right.
It's it's really about thejourney along the way.
That somebody can't just grabyour compass, right?
And be like, oh hey, let me tunethat up for you.
You know, no, man, like it'sit's it takes your own journey.
(55:34):
Your your compass is attuned orconnected to only you, and
you're the only one that cantune it.
And that that takes time, takeswisdom.
So well, hey man, thisconversation has been awesome.
I really appreciate it.
I I always love connecting withyou.
How can the the guys that arelistening that maybe want to
(55:55):
connect with you or or followyou or just learn more about
your work and what you do, howcan they connect with you?
SPEAKER_00 (56:04):
Probably the easiest place that I think most people
are connecting Instagram.
It's the place that I'm mostactive.
And direct messaging throughInstagram is a really easy way
to connect with me.
You can also go to my website.
It's not a really elaboratewebsite, it's pretty much just a
splash page with a little bit ofinformation at this point.
But it's uh my company is calledout of step.
(56:27):
And you can go to the website isoutofstep.life.
And there is some information onthere.
Um and it does have a way foryou to connect with me there
too.
So Instagram or the website,those would be two best
resources.
SPEAKER_01 (56:42):
Awesome.
Great.
All right, man.
Well, we'll uh we'll catch upsoon.
Thanks.
Thanks again for joining theshow.
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Brotherhood and be a part of themovement.
Today I'm joined by my friendAndrew Carruthers, and we're
diving into something that'sboth deeply challenging, and
(00:46):
that's trusting our innercompass.
We're we're going to explorewhat that means, how it shows up
in our lives, and what it lookslike to actually follow it, even
when it's not the easy road.
So, Andrew, man, I'm excited tohave you here.
And I'd love to start by justasking you when you think about
(01:07):
your inner compass, what doesthat mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Hmm.
Well, that's a good questionbecause it's pretty layered.
To me, I guess on the simplestlevel, it's that it's internal
director of like how I want tomove within my life, who I want
to be, how I want to show up,the decisions I want to make,
(01:33):
but from a from a place of Iguess what I might refer to as
kind of like higher self or trueself, versus being maybe
misguided by parts of me thatjust want to seek pleasure or
just get some type of need medor or potentially are just
acting out of fear.
(01:53):
I feel like following my innercompass, I would say that when
I'm yeah, following thedirection of more uh true self
or higher self.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Yeah.
Was there a time, like how didit come to be, right?
When we talk about innercompass, I I feel like for
myself, the for most of my life,I I I wasn't even aware that I
was carrying around a compass.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople talk about, you know, and
I don't know if that's a senseof morals or guidance or spirit
(02:29):
or whatever it is, but was therewas there a moment for you when
you feel like you realized thatthat it was there and and that
you couldn't ignore it anymore?
SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
I think I got my first hint when um in um well I
I guess actually if I if I evendrill back a little bit further,
um the first hint was probablywhen I joined like a Christian
youth group way back in my likeearly teens.
I think I was like 13 or 14years old.
(03:05):
And I think that was kind of thefirst time that I really um got
a sense that there was somethinghigher, I guess is is the term I
would put to it.
And while that youth groupdidn't really last and I ended
up you know not following thatpath, the real part that I I can
(03:25):
really draw back to is in highschool, I started to really get
into Buddhism.
And it was because I had uh Ihad this really great teacher in
a philosophy class that he hadkind of introduced me to that
concept.
And my best friend Josh and I,we would go to Borders Bookstore
(03:47):
and get like a huge coffee andget all of the Buddhist books
off of the shelves and like justsit in the Borders bookstore
coffee shop and read theseBuddhist books.
And then he and I started todabble in meditation.
We didn't really have a teacheror anything.
We were just going based off ofthese things that we were seeing
with in the books we werereading.
(04:07):
But we started meditating.
And I think that was the firsttime that I really truly
connected to something where Iwas like, oh, okay, there's
there's a uh me, and thenthere's like big picture me.
Like there's not just one personhere, there's kind of like
multiple levels, and I thinkthat's when I really started to
(04:29):
come more clear that sometimes Iwas acting from what I now know
is kind of more thatsubconscious self, or acting
more from a conscious, higherconscious self.
And so I think that was that wasthe first introduction to it or
(04:49):
peak behind the curtain.
But it was, I think it wasreally when I started to work
with my first life coach, LynnChristian.
That that was really the firsttime that I was introduced to
quote deeper work, you know,really recognizing the
difference between thesubconscious needs and our kind
(05:13):
of parts that form based off ofthe experiences we have, the
beliefs that are formed withinthe subconscious, and how strong
they can really guide us, versusmore consciously in deciding
kind of some of the things thatyou pointed towards.
Like one of the first thingsthat Lynn took me through was my
core values exercise.
(05:34):
And I got to at that point, itwas love, wisdom, harmony, and
success were my four corevalues.
And that was the first time thatI had really been intro
introduced to having somethingfairly defined that became more
of an inner compass because partof that process was for me to
(05:58):
each day sit with those corevalues and really look at okay,
well, how would I behave today?
What would I do today if I wastruly living from these core
values?
And what just sometimes happensin my life that's out of
alignment with these corevalues.
So I think, yeah, theintroduction, the the kind of
(06:21):
inkling was there early in life,but it wasn't until that was I
think 2003 or 2004 that I firsthired Lynn.
And I think that was when I itreally started to click that, oh
wow, like I do have somethingdeeper within me that can guide
me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Yeah, definitely.
You know, as as you were sayingthat I I was thinking about how,
you know, at different times youwere talking about the different
parts of yourself, right?
And there's there's all of theseother things that, you know,
fear or impulses or all of theseother things that that I feel
(07:01):
like almost kind of they'rethey're chattering in the
background at any given time.
You know, and I think beforefiguring out what that voice is,
what that inner compass is, andand what you talked about,
having established, you know,discovering and establishing
really your your core valuesthat that I feel like a lot of
(07:25):
these different things, thesevoices and conversations are
going on in the background.
How do you feel like foryourself that how do you
distinguish between some ofthose other things?
Like what is something that'smaybe fear or impulses, really
just those kind of things versusyour genuine inner guidance?
(07:49):
Because I I know at least formyself that I feel like at times
they could they could lookreally similar.
You know, and it's how do youbegin to differentiate for
somebody that's starting kind ofthe journey of acknowledging
that there are these differentparts of ourselves and they're
trying to establish what istheir inner compass, how do you
(08:12):
start to differentiate as towhat that is?
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
Yeah.
The the first step, I think, isdeveloping some type of practice
of greater awareness, becausewithout the awareness, the none
of it's going to become clear.
If we if we don't have some wayof looking inside and actually
seeing the thoughts and seeingthe feelings, and seeing perhaps
(08:38):
where those thoughts andfeelings even originated from
and what effect they're havinguh on the life that that we're
living, there is no way todifferentiate them because, like
as a child, we we are very muchkind of guided uh by in the
teaching around us.
(09:00):
So that can be experiences inlife, that can be teachers, that
can be our parents, that can beuh other friends.
Like in that initial childhoodstage, we're just taking in a
ton of information, and all ofthat is subconscious.
Like, well, not all of it, but95% of it is subconscious.
The subconscious is just pickingup the teachings, it's picking
(09:21):
up the experiences, and that'swhere most of our fears and our
needs and our beliefs andeverything are starting to
develop.
And it's not until later in lifethat we really do have the
ability to then kind of sit backand have greater awareness of,
oh, well, yeah, I do have thisbelief, or I do have this way of
(09:45):
being, or this habit, or thispattern of action.
But shit, man, where did thateven come from?
And is that serving me?
And is that something I want tocontinue to do?
But to get to that place, wehave to start with some type of
awareness practice.
You know, people are probablysick of hearing about
meditation, but there's a reasonthat meditation always comes up,
(10:08):
and it's one of the most directand simple ways to start to
develop a relationship withthose parts of ourselves.
And that's I do think it takestime because that first step of
just awareness.
I don't know that it is reallyvery easy to distinguish between
(10:31):
maybe this, you know,subconscious part that broke off
to protect itself from the bigscary thing that it thought it
would needed to protect itself,and then developed a habit or a
pattern, an action that it woulddo to protect itself.
I don't know at first that we'regoing to have the ability to
distinguish that from maybe thatlike deeper inner truth at
(10:55):
first, like the first time wesit down to you know have a
meditation or something.
But that first step of justawareness, I think, is the
really essential part, becausethen we'll start to know notice
more of the nuance.
And that's really where the thatdistinction can be made then.
For me, um, I think one of thethings that it really helped me
(11:19):
distinguish from subconsciousjust habits and patterns versus
real conscious thoughtful actionor thoughtful creation of you
know what what I wanted thingsto be, I I really trace it back
to when I really started to domore kind of like somatic and
(11:40):
embodiment type of work.
Because I think that, and wewere kind of talking about this
last night.
If if we don't have arelationship to the rest of the
body, if we're stuck up herejust in the head, again, it's
going to be really hard todistinguish from a supportive
thought and pattern that we'veconsciously created created
(12:01):
versus an unsupportive justhabit or pattern that's just
been there forever.
And kind of to your point, itjust sort of plays out in the
background without us evennoticing most of the time.
It's just it's like a a taperecorder on repeat that's just
tucked way back in that corner,and we're not even going to
notice it because it's alwaysbeen there.
(12:23):
And so one of the one of the biguh things that helps me is I can
tune into the sensation muchquicker and easier than I can
maybe that really hidden cornerback here, that that belief
system or that story is playingout.
I can feel in my body that, ohman, I'm like really tight.
(12:47):
I think I was telling you andAhmed last night that like one
of my things, I I had a reallycrazy experience back in 2019
where I'm almost completely lostmy voice, like my ability to
speak.
My throat just completely wasclosing up on me.
And after tons of doctors said,hey, look, there's there's
(13:10):
nothing wrong with you, man.
Like you're you're healthy,there's no reason for this to
actually be happening.
And finally, and what it came tobe through lots of other kind of
avenues of looking at this, Irealized it it was actually a
protective mechanism because in2019 I was putting myself in in
(13:31):
places within my business,especially that I wasn't feeling
safe.
I wasn't healing feeling heard,I wasn't feeling uh that I had a
place.
I was just basically using myvoice in all the wrong places
and being shut down reallyoften.
And so my body started toprotect itself.
(13:52):
It's like, all right, fuck it.
Like, if if you're not gonna beheard, then we're just gonna
stop talking.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
You're not gonna have a choice.
And so that over the course of acouple years, it developed into
a really strong habit andpattern that I still sometimes
struggle with.
But the great thing is uh it'sit's a really strong signal to
me now when I'm out of alignmentwith some of my personal truth.
(14:23):
So if the little kid in me thatwanted everyone to like him and
you know, wanted to be heard,wanted to be seen, and never
felt that he was, when he startsto show up again, and that's a
pattern, and that's somethingthat's in my subconscious, my
throat starts to close up.
(14:44):
And so now I don't really noticeat first that I'm feeling
insecure.
I'm wondering, like, oh man,does Corey think what I'm saying
right now?
Stupid, you know.
I don't notice that voice loudand clear because it's tucked
way back in the background.
It's been there for a reallylong time.
But what I will notice is, man,I'm starting to get a little
(15:06):
more like my voice is getting alittle more gravelly, it's
getting a little tighter.
And so now I can go, that oldpattern, that old habit's back.
And so I notice the physicalsensation and the physical
response of it much faster thanlike the story itself showing
up.
So for me, getting a deeperconnection to my body and to
(15:30):
what happens within my body,that has been a huge piece too
of really knowing am I operatingfrom my inner compass or am I
kind of stuck in subconsciouspatterns and habits.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Yeah.
You know, as you were sayingthat, it makes me think that I
know that I think people willsay that every day that we make,
you know, 60,000 decisions, ormaybe it's 60,000 thoughts or
something like that.
But I think that it's less aboutactually making decisions and
we're just replaying the sameframeworks, right?
That the brain's reallyefficient.
(16:07):
And so it's not necessarily evermaking any new decisions as it
is just going back andreferencing what it did the last
time and then carrying that backout.
So I think a lot of these thingsthat we go through from day to
day happen on autopilot, right?
That we're we're not eventhinking about why we made that
(16:28):
decision or whatever.
And to your point, right, goingback to maybe whether it's
childhood or society or socialmedia or whatever it is, but to
an extent that these decisionsare being made outside of like
our thought process.
And so that's a really goodpoint that you bring up that
that that there's indicatorsalong the way that that we're
(16:53):
not even noticing.
Right.
And it sounds like for you, it'sthat your your throat closes up,
but being able to like, andsometimes I I describe it as
like split stream, to be able tolike split that stream into
different feeds, you know, andyou've got maybe what's going on
in your mind, and you've gotwhat's going on to your body,
(17:14):
and to be able to be, you know,logically maybe present in the
moment, but to also feelyourself, you know, something
physiologically, right, orphysically starting to change in
you, to cue you on to like,okay, I'm still running patterns
up here, but there's this otherthing that's going like my eye
is twitching, you know, orwhatever it is.
(17:36):
Like, I know that there'ssomething going on.
And I think that's a really goodpoint of people starting to slow
down.
And I think it does take that,you know.
To your point, I thinkmeditation at times can get this
bad rap or this stigma of like,ah, you know, like woo-woo or
whatever it is.
But I think all too often wedon't slow down to enough to
(17:58):
acknowledge that these thingsare going on in our our bodies,
let alone ask actually ask us,ask ourselves why we're making
the decisions that we are.
And for myself, you know, evenjust as of recently, I've
noticed at times where and itstarted for me about a year ago.
(18:22):
I have like in my my left eye, Iwould feel almost like a I I
consider it or when I thinkabout it as like a a focus of
attention, if that makes sense.
Right.
So it's almost like it's nottwitching, it's not itchy, it's
not a thing like that, but it'slike a it's like a strain.
(18:43):
It's that when I'm focusing onsomething so intently, or you
know, that could be stress, thatcould be whatever, that this
part of my eye is like all of myfocus is drawn to that area.
And kind of similar to you,that's something for me now
that's like, oh, okay, likethere's something going on.
(19:03):
I I need to probably let go ofsomething in my body, right?
And kind of going back totrusting my inner compass and
what's kind of going on, thatit's telling me that there's
there's something right now thatI need to to kind of tune into.
So yeah.
What do you go ahead?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Oh, I was just gonna say, I I think that you know
that's part of building therelationship is being able to,
again, like we have to get to aplace that we can even notice
that something so subtle, likeyou just shared, that oh, I get
almost this like focus point inmy left eye.
Um you have to be pretty in tunewith your body.
And to your point that you know,people sometimes get a little
(19:48):
whatever about meditation.
Also remember, like, meditationdoesn't necessarily have to be
sitting on a on a pad with yourlegs crossed.
You know, the people that I workwith within my wayfaring
clientele, um, a lot of them areleaders and they're busy people.
Like they don't have time to goto the gym, then come home, do
(20:11):
like a half-hour meditation,then prepare their meals, then
do this, then get the kids up.
Like, so there does have to besome multitasking that happens.
And something that can canreally help with this is to look
at well, what can I turn into apractice of mindfulness?
So if if someone already isgoing to the gym, there is a
(20:33):
simple switch that can be madethere to turn gym time actually
into a mindfulness practice,into a meditation.
And it's to not distractourselves.
So, you know, I know for me,like when I used to go to the
gym a lot, the first thing I dois get out my phone and put on
my favorite like YouTube videoson the treadmill and stuff.
And I'm just I'm completelytuned out to my body at that
(20:56):
point, except for maybe like thepain that's starting to burn in
my you know, quads or somethingbecause I'm walking uphill.
But other than that, I'm liketuned into a screen or I'm
listening to my favorite songs.
And let me be clear, there'snothing wrong with that.
I'm just suggesting if you'resomeone that wants to
incorporate something likemeditation into your practice,
(21:16):
you're already gone to the gym,turn the gym into a meditative
practice, which means reallytuning the focus into the
experience that you're having.
And really the meditation is oh,I notice my mind is distracted,
and I'm thinking about maybewhat I'm gonna make for dinner
or where I'm gonna go next week,or like what I'm worried about
(21:39):
in the future.
You just go, oh, okay, themind's distracted.
Back to the sensation of melifting this weight and letting
me actually feel fully into mywhole body, not just like, okay,
I'm doing bicep curls, so I'mjust gonna focus on that bicep
I'm trying to build up.
Like actually feeling into thewhole body and feel how as you
(22:01):
lift that weight, it doessomething throughout the whole
body.
It's not because it's not justaffecting your bicep.
That is meditation.
It's part of the process ofbuilding deeper awareness and
also getting control of thatkind of monkey mind that
constantly wants to take us intothe past, to replay things that
(22:23):
happened in the past or take usinto the future so that we can,
you know, prepare ourselves forwhatever's gonna happen next.
It's just bringing us back intoa moment and giving ourselves
something to give the mind tofocus on.
So it doesn't, it doesn't haveto look like what we think of as
traditional meditation to justbuild uh awareness.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
What do you feel like, you know,I I I know that at least for
myself, that there can be timesto, you know, the point that you
made about the monkey mind, andthere's a lot of other things
that are that are coming andgoing.
And and for myself, as I've kindof been on this journey of of
starting to trust myself more orto know where that part of
(23:11):
myself is, that I feel at timesthat there can be a discrepancy
between what kind of my headsays, right?
As we talked about kind of thelogical sort of time part of it,
and like what my heart ispulling me into, or maybe that
that inner compass.
What do you how do youdifferentiate for yourself
(23:36):
between the head and the heartand things like that?
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Well, probably sound like a broken record, but part
of it is actually feeling intoit.
You know, I'm pretty tuned intomy body at this point, so I can
I can feel that oh man, my headis really like spinning.
It's taking over, it's reallydirecting the show versus
something that's coming frommore like my internal guidance
(24:03):
system, which might be like deepin my belly space or like deep
in my heart space.
And even like I don't want tovilify the head, because the the
head brain can be really apowerful and really supportive
intelligence within our body.
Again, it's it's aboutdistinguishing okay, is this
(24:26):
like you know, primitive monkeymind shit that's just like
driving me crazy, or is thislike really conscious
thoughtfulness?
You know, different beliefsystems believe that like even
the seat of the soul can be inthe head.
You know, there's some beliefsystems that think that the
spiritual center is thepituitary gland, something
(24:48):
that's the third eye.
In traditional Chinese medicineor qigong, they talk about shen
being in the center of the head,which shen is like the spirit
energy.
So I don't want to you know makeit seem like the head's
necessarily this bad placethat's always gonna trick us,
but even that I can feelsomething very different when
(25:11):
I'm from uh working from a veryconscious elevated mind space
versus just being stuck in likethe thoughts and subconscious
pieces.
And I I think a a another pieceof this too, Corey, is if if we
want to be able to distinguishthat, we have to start building
(25:35):
the compass too.
Because again, if if we've neversat down and consciously did
practices like the core valuespractice or really looking at
what's important to us in ourlife, what are the decisions
we're making each day?
Something as simple as like ajournaling practice.
(25:56):
If if we don't have something inplace to actually take the
awareness and look at it andsay, well, is this even what I
want?
We're always just going toreturn into exactly what you
said.
The mind is really, reallysmart.
It wants to keep us using theleast amount of energy possible.
And the least amount of energyis just to follow our old
(26:17):
patterns and habits that havebeen built over years.
Because it actually takes a tonmore energy for the body to use
the prefrontal cortex, whichmany believe is kind of like the
source of that consciousthinking mind.
It requires a ton more energy tooperate that prefrontal cortex
than it does the whole rest ofthe primitive portion of the
(26:39):
brain.
So the body wants to keep us inthose patterns and habits.
So if we haven't really takenthe time to sit down and be
like, okay, well, what do I wantto guide me?
Do I want to be guided by love?
Do I want to be guided by truth?
Do I want to be guided bycourage?
You know, like what do Iactually want to be guided by?
(27:01):
If we don't build the compass, Idon't know that there's anything
to really compare off of anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
Yeah, as you were saying that, I I had this
picture in my mind of literallylike, I don't know, almost like
a pocket watch level complexity,right?
That all of the differentcomponents that are going into
it.
And I don't think that it has tobe that complex.
You know, I mean, if you thinkif I really break it down, just
(27:29):
having, you know, an enclosure,probably some sort of a looking
passage, you know, window, aglass thing on the front of it,
you know, I'm trying to not makeit too complicated, and then a
dial to kind of read off of, andthen a magnetism that is pulling
you in the direction of truenorth, right?
(27:53):
Or what your truth kind of is.
And and I think it is just that,that it's almost like going
through a process of goingaround to different vendors and
sourcing the materials to tobuild and to calibrate that
compass over time.
(28:14):
You know, and and speaking ofthat, of of like calibration
with it, you know, I I thinkthat it's something that you
know, I don't know that it's aseasy as like a true north sort
of thing.
That well, and and maybe it isas as I think about that, that
there is actually a true north,but it's really about really
(28:36):
differentiate it's like there'sa bunch of different things in
the area that are pulling themagnetism away from what true
north is, and it's it's a bit ofa process over time to really
figure out you know, it's it'salmost like there's no
background on the compass.
And you have to figure out foryourself where true north is.
(28:59):
That it'll spin and it goes indifferent directions, but you
have to decide that foryourself.
So I'm I'm curious, kind of withthat, you know, on your journey,
like where where do you feellike you you know, where do you
still struggle maybe to to trustit fully?
SPEAKER_00 (29:20):
The the piece that I still struggle with sometimes is
trusting my true north when uhespecially someone I trust in
the world that their true northis different.
Because I think as as we developourselves, just again, like as
we look back to childhood and wepretty much put our full trust
(29:43):
as far as learning and growinginto other people.
Like we have to have otherpeople to guide us, to teach us,
to show us the way.
And then as we start to age, westart to build a little bit more
autonomy, we start to think forourselves a bit more.
Then I think as we get into ouradulthood stage, that's where we
(30:04):
really start to look for kind ofair quotes truth.
So perhaps we do start aspiritual practice.
We start to maybe look formentorship.
We start to read different typesof books that have more of a
guidance to them versus justentertainment.
(30:24):
We start to really look for,okay, well, like what's the
right thing to do here?
And you know, how do I want tolive my life?
And I feel like I'm now, youknow, I'm gonna be 48 this year.
And I've been I've had thenickname Old Man Carruthers
since I was in my 20s, so I'mkind of an old 48-year-old at
(30:46):
heart.
But what I find now is most ofthe time I do feel like I've
developed my personal sovereignsense of true north.
And I follow it well for themost part.
(31:07):
What rocks me at times is whenI'm in the presence of other
people that I have a lot ofrespect for.
Or if I picture them to havepotentially more wisdom or more
experience in a certain area oflife, that's where I start to
doubt myself sometimes.
(31:28):
Where I see you, oh man, thatyou know, this person's making
this decision, and they'resaying that this is the right
way, and that I should believethis, and I should want these
things, or I should picturethings in a certain way.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
It's a lot of shudd.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Exactly.
It's a lot of shudd.
Yeah, shoulding all over myself.
And that is the place thatsometimes I I still get a little
off path.
But I would say that's only beenin the last maybe four or five
years of my life that I can saythat that's true.
(32:04):
I think, especially up into evenmy early 40s, I still had a
pretty shaky sense of like avery true devotion to my own
true north.
Because I think I was stilldeveloping, honestly.
I've I've dabbled in so manythings in my life, and I think a
(32:27):
lot of it looking back waslooking for someone else to tell
me, here's your true north.
You know, I tried so manydifferent spiritual paths, hope,
because I think I think ingeneral, humans want truth.
We want someone to be able tolay out in front of us and say,
here's the truth, here's how youshould think about things, how
(32:48):
here's how you should see theworld, here's how you should be
behave.
I think there's a part of usthat wants that.
And I did crave that.
And I did, you know, put my footin so many different ponds
looking for that truth allthrough, like especially in my
20s and 30s.
And it wasn't until I was kindof in my mid-40s that I was
like, oh, what I was actuallydoing was visiting these
(33:14):
different spaces.
You know, it was, I was, it'slike I was sitting in the
church, and it was like, oh, youknow what?
I like this piece of thischurch.
I'm gonna take that, I'm gonnaput it in my bag.
Okay, now I'm gonna go sit withsome like indigenous medicine
person.
And oh man, this is awesome.
(33:35):
Like, let me take this piece ofthat, and now that's gonna go
into my bag.
And I don't think I realized itduring that time, but that's
kind of that's what washappening to get me to a place
now that I do feel like I have avery kind of sovereign, unique,
true north that I've designed,like I've actually created it
for myself.
(33:56):
But it took a really long time.
And again, back to yourquestion, what can still rocket
sometimes is if if I am in thepresence of someone that I have
the a great respect for or seethem as having greater knowledge
or greater wisdom aboutsomething, um, that can still
take me off my off my course.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
Yeah, man, so much of that really resonates with
me.
I I think you know, it'sinteresting that we didn't know
each other at that time in ourlife, but I feel like I've
followed a really similarjourney in that up until even
just recently that I I struggledto make decisions for myself,
you know, and I I had just to acertain extent, like I didn't
(34:42):
know what I wanted.
I had never I had followed somuch of everybody else's
direction that that I had neverreally stopped to ask myself
like what it is that I want andwhy it is that this is important
to me.
And and like you, I I wentthrough and and it's looking
(35:03):
back, I can see it in so manydifferent how it showed up in so
many different ways in my lifeover time.
But to your point of of reallygetting out there and and
looking at different ways ofexploring that or making
decisions or curiosity.
But I found for myself at a lotof those times that that maybe
it fit one aspect of it, youknow.
(35:24):
You I would go over there and belike, oh, okay, finally, like
somebody's gonna make all of mydecisions, and I can just like
follow it and never have tothink about it again, and then
something would happen, and itwouldn't like, well, it doesn't
fit in this case, you know, andthen I'd go somewhere else and
it'd be like, Well, yeah, youknow, I mean, that's pretty
close, but there's still theseother things that it doesn't fit
(35:47):
into.
And you know, I it was finallythat after going through that so
many different times in so manyplaces and appreciating the
aspects, the wisdom that I didgain from that, but really like
figuring it out in the end thatI'm the only one that can make
these decisions, right?
(36:07):
And and especially taking intoaccount like my own life and my
own experiences and putting allof that together, that that it's
everybody's carrying aroundtheir own compass, you know,
whether they know it or not,that it's it's there, and and
(36:28):
that it's I found for myselfthat it's pretty on point, but
it is going to, you know, whenyou've got all of these other
things, as you said, like you'vegot all of these other things
that it's like holding it up andlooking at it, and you're
looking at everybody else, andyou're like, man, you know, like
imagine it like being out in thewoods, right?
And you you've got a compass andyou've been out there all day,
(36:50):
and you're like, no, I know thatthe mountain is over that
direction, right?
I can't see it through the treesright now, but I'm certain that
that's where it is, right?
But the reality is, like,probably nine and a half times
out of ten, that's where it'sat.
Like, that's the direction to begoing.
But we'll walk around in circlesover and over again, certain
(37:13):
that it's somewhere else.
As you know, as we're talkingabout that, I I keep thinking,
you know, something that'sreally important to me and and
even how we met is that thatsense of community and and
brotherhood, and to your point,right?
Like a lot of these things canget picked up by other people.
(37:37):
You know, we talked about likesocial media and society, and
like, okay, there's that's thataspect of it, but there is this
aspect of like, man, this thisguy or this brother or this
person that I hold in highregard, like what about that,
you know, and and so I thinkthat there is a role that
community and brotherhood playin in strengthening that
(37:59):
compass, right?
And and and and maybe part ofthat process is not even so much
of like showing us what thatwe're wrong in our ways, but in
maybe a sense of ofstrengthening our trust and
belief in that.
unknown (38:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:18):
What are your what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
I I fully agree.
I I think that having especiallycommunity that we trust or
leaders that we trust or mentorsthat we trust is super essential
to developing that in ourcompass aspect because there is
going to be very often thingsthat we cannot see, patterns of
behavior that we've been playingout our entire life that we are
(38:46):
completely unconscious of.
I kind of follow the multi-levelof consciousness map of, you
know, there's higherconsciousness, there's
consciousness, there'ssubconsciousness, which is a
part of us that we can stillkind of see if we look back
there with the conscious mind.
But then there's also like areally deep unconscious that
(39:10):
even if we point our eyesdirectly towards it, it can be
living in the shadows.
And it's like, holy shit, I Ihad no idea that was there.
And I've maybe done this mywhole life.
That's where I really thinkcommunity that can act as a
reflection is really essential.
You know, we we had talked aboutthis with our friend, and you
(39:33):
know, because because one of themen that that we sit with, he
was kind of like, Yeah, I wantyou guys to call me out of my
shit, you know.
And that is sometimes what isneeded by people we trust.
And, you know, for me, I've Itold you guys I don't want to be
called out of my shit.
I want to be, you know, lovinglyreflected to.
(39:59):
But, you know, that's justthat's more, you know, how we
want it to be delivered.
But the truth is, is we do needoutside voices to be able to
say, hey, you say this, you sayyou're this person, you say you
want to be like this, or youwant to act this way, and that's
not what I'm experiencing fromyou.
That's not what I'm seeing fromyou.
(40:20):
That is a lot of times how weneed to come to awareness of
those things because they are sotucked in our unconscious that
we just can't see them forourselves.
What I think is important withthis kind of stuff, and I think
this is really important even inlike reading books or having a
mentor, anything like that, isstill hearing that feedback or
(40:47):
hearing the instruction orhearing the guidance with
discernment.
And again, I think that thatcomes back to over time
developing that ability to feelinto something in a way that
it's like, huh, okay, that doesmake a lot of sense.
But honestly, there's somethinginside me that's like, that's
not for me.
(41:08):
I see that you see it that way.
I hear a very convincingargument for that point, but it
that just doesn't feel like it'sfor me.
And that's discernment.
It's being able to recognize,like, yeah, cool, that sounds
great, but I don't need to takeit on.
Or the opposite side, which islike, ooh, man, Corey just you
(41:30):
just reflected something back tome that it actually kind of
hurt, like it stung.
It kind of tapped into somethingthat is pretty sensitive there.
And not just immediately wantingto reject it because it's
uncomfortable.
That's another big piece todiscernment.
It's being able to sit with itlong enough to go, hmm.
(41:55):
Is this my self-protectionthat's coming up?
I don't want to hear it becauseit maybe suggests that I'm
something other than what Ithink I that I am.
Or do I feel a little guilt orshame that I have shown that,
shown up that way in my life?
And we that's part ofdiscernment is also being able
(42:17):
to recognize, like, oh man,yeah, there is some, I do feel
some truth to this, but it'sreally uncomfortable to be with
us right now.
So yeah, I think it's superessential that we have that
sense of community.
It's essential to have greatmentors, it's essential to have
great teachers.
And I think for me at least, abig part of that is being able
(42:41):
to receive pretty much all ofthat input that comes in, but
then also be able to sortthrough it with discernment and
really take in, yep, this ispart of my inner compass, that's
part of their inner compass, andknowing the difference.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Yeah.
So interesting.
So many, so many juicy tidbitsin there to to pull on.
It it kind of brings up the thequestion for me of like, man,
what what would the world looklike if more of us were trusting
that inner accomplice?
(43:20):
Right?
You know, I imagine this like Idon't know, that it's full of
wholesome and connection andhonesty, and I don't know, it's
uh it's a really interestingthought.
SPEAKER_00 (43:37):
It's it's a very utopian thought.
I don't know.
I I think the part of part of mypersonal mission is is to help
people to step further intoconsciousness, like to really
have more time throughout theirday that they're they're living
(43:58):
in a state of some level ofconsciousness.
Because depending on what youlook at, you know, as far as
even neuroscience data, they saythat like 95% or more of most
human beings' day is really justliving out subconscious habit
and pattern.
(44:18):
And that to me just seems like,damn, that's a lot of time to
just be living from habits andpatterns.
But again, there's a reason forit, and it's because if we tried
to stay conscious, you know,through 100% of our day, we
would probably be fuckingexhausted because it does take a
(44:39):
lot of energy to stay in thatconscious state.
So to me now it's like, can weshift it from 95 to even like
90?
Could we get to that place whereit's like more often that
conscious place is shifting intogear and saying, okay, before I
react to what my partner justsaid to me, can I take two
(45:02):
breaths and really come back tothis conversation from a
conscious place where I'mchoosing my words, not just
reacting with my words.
And to be honest with you, likeI can picture a world where if
even that happened, where it waslike a five percent shift, I
(45:25):
think that would have that thatin and of itself would have
tremendous difference,especially in how we interact
with each other, which wouldshape everything.
SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, that that utopian sort ofthing really stands out, right?
Like, is this just as crazymaking?
Like, are we on drugs?
Right, like but I I do like I Ithink so much of it as I think
about myself and presence uhespecially, you know, and I
(45:59):
think of like getting to the endof my life and looking back, you
know, something that for me as Iwas going through my my divorce
and afterwards, like something Iacknowledged or I noticed along
that journey was that I that Iwasn't very present in a lot of
things, right?
That I was sure I was likechecking the boxes and I was
(46:19):
doing the things and andwhatnot, but I was never
stopping to like smell theroses.
And and I think, you know, kindof like tying all of this back
together, I think thatrecognizing that there was an
inner compass that that wasputting out things all along the
(46:43):
way, right?
That it was there, but I just Ididn't even know that it was
that I was carrying it aroundthat and that entire time.
And it just yeah, as I thinkabout like wanting to live a
life worth living, right?
Or or living it passionately,like, yeah, I could see how it
would be exhausting to go from95 to 90 percent, right?
(47:06):
Because we're so used to notactually spending the cycles and
being inside of that moment, butbut similarly, like how much
more fulfilling each day andthat life would be if we were we
were actually there and presentfor it.
So it's a really interestingthought.
(47:27):
Well, one of the things I findreally, you know, about this
topic and and is you as well, isthat you call yourself a a
wayfinder, and and I see a lotof similarities in there between
an internal compass and kind ofwayfinding.
Do you do you want to speak tothat a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (47:45):
Yeah, because that's that's a big part of what before
I before I had my currentversion of my company and I
called myself the journeyistbecause kind of the same same
idea behind what I now refermyself to is well, I actually
changed it just recently toWayfarer instead of Wayfinder.
(48:07):
Because of yeah, just a littlenuance there, because I don't
necessarily want to find the wayfor my clients.
I will I want to help walk theway with them, which Wayfarer
kind of felt more in alignmentwith that for some reason.
I just digested that becausethat is truly what I'm I'm here
(48:28):
to do is to support this otherperson in developing that inner
compass so that they can guidethemselves.
Because again, I I will stepinto like teacher, mentor,
guide, and especially dependingon what specifically we're
working on.
But most of the time I'm reallytrying to stay in that true
(48:49):
space of I'm just walking nextto you.
And I'm I'm occasionally goingto ask you the questions that
need to be asked and reflectthings back to you that you need
to see or hear, so that you cantell me then where do you want
to take your next step and whydo you want to take that next
step?
Where is that coming from withinyou?
That that step is where you wantto go.
(49:11):
That's that development of theinner compass.
So yeah, it very much all fitsthis.
I really I I love to hike, likeI love to walk in the woods.
It's one of my absolute favoritethings to do.
And that's what I picture.
I either picture that or beingin the ocean, like captain of a
(49:32):
ship or something.
Those are the two things that Iuse a lot for my own personal
metaphors.
And so it is that aspect of justwalking with people so that they
can develop their system, theycan develop their maps, they can
develop their compass, and itfits for their specific needs.
(49:54):
Because again, what I think isright or what the things that I
have developed in my life, mybelief systems, they might not
be the right belief systems forthem.
I mean to offer them up topeople, like if they're stuck in
a place and they don't knowwhere to go, I might offer to
them, like, hey, I'm gonna sharewith you something I personally
believe, and you don't have tobelieve this, but I think it
(50:18):
might be helpful as something toconsider in this particular
situation.
But in the end, I only want themto adopt that belief as their
own, if it resonates, if it'strue for them.
unknown (50:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:32):
And I, you know, another part of this whole kind
of thought process of thejourney and and finding our way,
the only way that we can do itis to just start walking.
You know, again, kind of comingback to where I can look back at
my past and my history.
You know, we hear this all thetime.
(50:53):
Like, well, if you're notmessing up, you're you know, you
can't really learn.
And we hear something in thatthat vein.
And it's really true, though.
It's like the only way that I'mgoing to know if my compass is
in true north is to walk southsometimes and fall off a fucking
cliff and go, oh, yeah, Iprobably shouldn't do that
(51:15):
anymore.
That really sucked.
And that helps to tune thecompass back in.
It goes, oh, okay, I thoughtthat was true north.
That definitely wasn't truenorth for me because I
experienced it.
I know I have to go a differentdirection now to find true
north.
And I think that that's oftenthe way that we have to do it is
we have to just start wanderingand putting our foot on
(51:38):
different paths and be willingto make the mistake or choose
the wrong path at times.
Or, you know, I think we're soafraid to like quote waste time.
And it's like, look, man, if ifyou're on the path and you're
you're looking for the way andand you're on your journey,
(51:59):
there's no wasted time.
That that was probably what hadto happen to lead you there.
I mean, you talk about that allthe time with your experience
with your divorce and all ofthat.
Is you know, you I know that youlook back at it and you
recognize that so much of thatwas something that you had to go
through so that you could findyour true north, which is really
(52:21):
hard, man.
Like that's that's rough tothink about something as as hard
and heavy as a divorce and youknow division of a family as
maybe what is needed to find ourway, but at times it is.
SPEAKER_01 (52:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with so muchof that.
Well, hey man, as we start towrap up, I I want to really just
kind of take a moment and andsee if there is one piece of
wisdom that that you would wantthe the men listening to take
away with them, right?
(53:00):
About trusting their own innercompass.
And and if you have that, whatwould it be?
SPEAKER_00 (53:08):
The thing that jumps out right this moment as you as
you ask that question is ishonestly patience based on
exactly what we just said isdeveloping this sense of inner
compass.
There's no way to do it exceptfor time.
There's no way to do it exceptfor uh experiencing life every
(53:28):
day, and hopefully doing it in asomewhat conscious way that we
have that ability to reflect on.
Okay, I did this, I said this, Ibehaved in this way, I acted out
this urge that I had.
What happened?
How did that feel?
What did that do for me, orwhere did that take me in my
(53:49):
life?
And is that what I want tocontinue to keep doing?
It takes a long time to get to aplace that we have a strong
sense of inner guidance, and ittakes a lot of patience.
So I think that's that's reallywhat I would want people to
hear.
Especially reflecting back on myown journey.
(54:11):
There was a hell of a lot oftimes where I wanted the answer
now.
I just wanted it to be fixednow.
I wanted the experience tochange now.
I wanted clarity right now.
And looking back, it's like Icouldn't have had it.
There was nothing I could havedone.
There's no deep meditation Icould have done.
There's no contemplationpractice that I could have done
(54:33):
to give me the answer versusjust going through it, getting
to the other side, taking thetime to reflect on it, learn
from it, grow from it, andtesting something else.
So patience, friends.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
Patience.
You know, as you're saying that,I I go back to the saying of uh
it's about the journey, not thedestination.
You know, and it's it's thingslike that that growing up never
make sense in the moment.
Right?
Like, what the what the helldoes that even mean?
You know, but until you've untilyou've gone through enough of
(55:13):
those experiences to reallyappreciate that, yeah, it's not
about it's not about gettingthere.
Right.
It's it's really about thejourney along the way.
That somebody can't just grabyour compass, right?
And be like, oh hey, let me tunethat up for you.
You know, no, man, like it'sit's it takes your own journey.
(55:34):
Your your compass is attuned orconnected to only you, and
you're the only one that cantune it.
And that that takes time, takeswisdom.
So well, hey man, thisconversation has been awesome.
I really appreciate it.
I I always love connecting withyou.
How can the the guys that arelistening that maybe want to
(55:55):
connect with you or or followyou or just learn more about
your work and what you do, howcan they connect with you?
SPEAKER_00 (56:04):
Probably the easiest place that I think most people
are connecting Instagram.
It's the place that I'm mostactive.
And direct messaging throughInstagram is a really easy way
to connect with me.
You can also go to my website.
It's not a really elaboratewebsite, it's pretty much just a
splash page with a little bit ofinformation at this point.
But it's uh my company is calledout of step.
(56:27):
And you can go to the website isoutofstep.life.
And there is some information onthere.
Um and it does have a way foryou to connect with me there
too.
So Instagram or the website,those would be two best
resources.
SPEAKER_01 (56:42):
Awesome.
Great.
All right, man.
Well, we'll uh we'll catch upsoon.
Thanks.
Thanks again for joining theshow.
Hey, before you go, this podcastis just the surface.
The real work happens inside theEvolve Men Brotherhood.
This is our private community ofmen committed to leading
themselves boldly, buildingconfidence, and sharpening one
another in the fire.
Registration officially opensDecember 1st, and we kick off
(57:06):
our Brotherhood calls togetherbeginning in January 2026.
But you can get on the listtoday and be the first to claim
your spot.
If you're tired of going to lifealone and you're ready for true
accountability, support, andconnection with men who get it,
head to EvolvmenProject.comslash brotherhood.
Don't just listen, step into theBrotherhood.
(57:26):
I'll see you inside.
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