August 28, 2025 • 46 mins
When you live abroad, how do you balance your vacation days? You want to visit your friends and family but you also want to rest or explore somewhere new. Doing one means less time to do the other, so it's tricky!
Liz feels guilty that she left and bends over backwards to create an intricate schedule to see everyone she can while she's back in New York. Ryan feels like he came all the way back to South Africa so his friends and family can put a little effort in to see him while he's there. What about you? Join the conversation on Instagram and tell us what you think! @expatslisten
This week's would you rather is two true vacation destinations, Iceland and the Seychelles.
#vacationmode #visitinghome #expatlife #holidays
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Expats Listen with Ryan and Liz, the podcast where
we share the ups and downs, struggles and celebrations of
living abroad. I'm Ryan.
And I'm Liz. And this has been a really good
week. I think we've spent a lot of
time hanging out with Mr. Henry,visiting interesting places,
(00:20):
spending time with some cool friends.
And happy to be here today with you, Liz.
Yeah, I think it's been quite a busy week and yesterday was the
first time that I went to bed super early and I feel like it's
such a life hack. Guys, I want to share this with
everyone. Sleep.
What a thing. When you actually get proper
(00:42):
sleep, I feel like a new person,like wow, I am ready to take on
the day. Yeah, we've definitely hit that
age where a good night's sleep is worth a lot more than it used
to be. So, Ryan, what are we talking
about today? Today we're talking about
needing to book holidays and trips home, and how confusing
(01:05):
and difficult and weird sometimes that process can be.
Living that expect life. Yeah, I think this has been
difficult for me since I moved abroad in in 2010.
And there's something about leaving that your friends and
family expect every single time that you have a vacation, you're
(01:27):
going to go and visit them because why wouldn't you?
The 1st place that I moved abroad was actually Australia,
which might be the furthest place away from New York that
you could possibly go. And when I went there, I did
want to see my friends and family back in New York as much
as I could. But I was in Australia and I was
(01:47):
working full time and I had limited vacation days.
And I remember there was always this tension of can you take a
vacation for yourself? Like can you just go away for a
long weekend and take a day off work for that?
Or by doing that, am I like doing wrong to my family?
(02:11):
Like will my mom be mad if I take this little vacation and
don't spend that extra day with her where I could have?
What about my aunts and my uncles and my cousins and my
friends And like all of these people that you need to see when
you're taking these trips and they need to be longer trips in
order to do that, but you don't have that many days.
(02:31):
And when you're working full time and you're trying to
balance everything, I feel like it can just be really difficult
mentally to wrap your head around how to schedule vacation.
Well, I think I'm actually very impressed that it's such an
existential and abstract question for you with regards to
(02:52):
what your family's expectations are, because from my side, it's
quite an easy question and answer.
Yes, they do expect you to come and visit them any moment that
you're not working or doing something important.
It's not even a question of whether or not you're able to go
on holiday or go and try something new and different
(03:13):
somewhere else. It's an immediate, oh, so you've
got some time off. What time should I pick you up
at the airport? Yeah.
And, and I think it's violencingthat.
I think you can't expect that every single vacation of your
life is going to be a trip home,but you also need to go home.
And I think I don't want it to ever come across that I don't
(03:36):
want to visit home and that I don't want to visit my friends
and family. But sometimes you also want to
relax a little bit and sometimesyou want to explore and go on an
adventure and be somewhere new and eat new food.
And for people like us who love travel as much as we really,
truly love travel, it can be really difficult to say, OK, I'm
(03:57):
using all of my vacation days this year to visit home again.
And I'm not going to see anything I haven't seen.
And I'm not going to go anywhereI haven't gone.
And I'm not going to do anythingI haven't done because I'm just
going to go and and visit these people.
Yeah, I think that our family, when they're imagining our lives
here away from them, they're imagining that we're actually
(04:20):
doing that every day, exploring and going on adventures and
doing interesting things all thetime.
And they don't actually really consider the idea that the most
prevalent part of our time is spent doing day-to-day boring
work life kinds of things. And so when we are like, OK, we
(04:43):
want to go on a holiday. They're thinking, yeah, but
you've been on a holiday since you've left home, So what are
you talking about? There's also the mental
gymnastics of these trips home where it's not just you go and
visit your parents house and yousleep in your childhood bedroom
and everything is really relaxing and you're just hanging
(05:06):
out. No, these trips home are busy
and packed. I know for me it's always this
spreadsheet of, OK, this person is only available on Tuesday for
lunch and that person is only available after 8:00 PM on
Thursday. But they live very close to each
other. So I'm going to have to go there
(05:26):
and then I'm going to have to come back.
And New York is one of those places where everyone is just
far from each other. There's to get from Brooklyn to
Queens can take you an hour to get from Long Island, where some
of my family lives back to the city.
I have friends who live in New Jersey.
Now, all of these trips take time half an hour, an hour, an
(05:48):
hour and a half, two hours. And you really need to look at
who you're going to see and whenyou're going to see them and put
it together into this matrix of some kind of level of efficiency
in order to see all of the people that you want to see and
to spend time with them when they're free.
And the older we get, the harderit is.
(06:09):
When I was 25 and taking a trip back to New York, I feel like it
was a lot easier because it would just be, let's go to this
bar and everyone would just cometo the bar and that would be
fine. But now my friends have families
and small children, and the scheduling is so much more
(06:29):
difficult than it's ever been before.
And it really is like they can'tdo Tuesday.
That's just impossible. Tuesday is impossible because
I've got 16 things on and yes, I'm going to be in Brooklyn
right next to their house, but Ican't see them on Tuesday.
So I need to figure out what else I'm going to do.
And then I'm going to come back.And I think it takes me weeks to
(06:51):
figure out exactly when I'm going to be able to see each
person and where to go and all of that.
And it feels stressful, to be honest.
And I feel a lot of guilt when I'm not able to see someone.
And I feel extra guilt if I wasn't able to see someone on my
last trip and now I'm going backto New York and I'm still not
(07:14):
going to see them. I feel terrible.
And I feel like I really try to move heaven and earth in order
to get the schedule to work in away where I can see all the
people that I feel I owe my timeto.
Because I love these people and I want to spend time with these
people. And it is difficult sometimes.
(07:35):
Do you think that's a healthy way of looking at it in terms of
needing to move heaven and earthto see people when you're the
one that's going there? Of course it's not healthy.
I never thought it was. But my guilt runs deep, Ryan.
No, I mean, I think that's, that's why this is a big
conversation for us today. I just think that it's an
(07:57):
interesting dynamic where we go to these places.
It's not just you. There's so many of us who do it.
I do it when I go to South Africa, but we make these huge
trips and we go out of our way to find time to spend with
people around these schedules, around whatever it is that's
happening in their lives. And I'm happy to do it.
(08:20):
But I think that one of the things that comes up for me is
not necessarily guilt, but sometimes a certain level of
disappointment that I need to work as hard as I need to to
spend time with those people when I'm the one that's actually
making so much more of an effort.
And I find that difficult because I do want to spend time
with them, but it's almost tempered by a little bit of that
(08:43):
disappointment that I'm needing to bend over backwards to put in
that effort to make that time sothat it's on the schedule.
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel the other way.
I feel like it's all my fault and I feel like I left.
It was my choice to leave. They stayed.
If I had stayed like they did, then I would be able to see them
(09:07):
on whenever they wanted and I could see them on their schedule
and we could make it work and itwould be so much easier.
But I didn't. I left.
And because I left, I feel like it's completely on me and that
this responsibility is, if not 100 percent, 99% mine of making
(09:28):
it work to see them. So you did something wrong by
leaving. I think maybe I feel that way.
I think maybe deep down I feel like the the common life, the
expected life, the, the expectation that was on me was
to stay. And if I had done that the way
(09:49):
that all of them had, then this would be so easy.
But I didn't do that. So it was my choice and it was
my fault. Yeah, look, it's a it's a tough
way of looking at it. I think if you find yourself
feeling like you've done something wrong by spreading
your wings and living the life you wanted to live.
(10:09):
But I guess, you know, we all have different feelings about
having left home. Maybe it'll be something that we
talk about in the future, but when I consider what it is that
I owe people back home in terms of visitation, in terms of
activities, even general correspondence, I tend to find
(10:30):
that distance between us is not necessarily just geographical.
I think there is more of a distance between us in terms of
relationship because we don't spend that time together anymore
because I am so far away. And so now I feel as though I'm
not really as obligated as I used to be when I lived there,
(10:52):
because if I lived down the road, I feel as though I should
be seeing them more regularly. Whereas now when I live on
another continent, I feel as though I'm in your country, I'm
in your town, I'm in your general area.
I feel is that we should do something because we're close
enough to get it done, but I'm not really losing any sleep over
(11:14):
us not making it work. Because I've come this far to
your area and if you can't meet me 10 meters down the road from
your house, then I don't know ifthat's on me anymore.
I understand and I don't agree. And I think for me it's like
(11:34):
it's really the opposite. Because I feel like if I were
down the road and if I were living there, I wouldn't feel
that obligation to go to my friend's son's soccer game on a
random Saturday. Because I could go to any other
soccer game on any other Saturday.
But I'm only there for two Saturdays of the whole year.
(11:56):
So now I feel like I really haveto go.
Well, I think it's clear who would be the good cop and who
would be the bad cop between US.So at least that's established
between US and for anyone who happens to be listening to this
podcast. But definitely interested to
hear what you guys think. And do you agree more with Ryan
that when you go home, your friends should be making the
(12:19):
effort? Or do you agree more with me
thinking that you're the one wholeft, so you're the one who has
to make all the plans and put inall the effort?
I've really got my thumbs held and my fingers crossed that the
general perspective is somewherein the middle.
So too because I feel like maybeI am bending over backwards and
(12:40):
trying to move heaven and earth a bit too much, and maybe Ryan
has a point. And maybe I need to be more
understanding that other people have got the routine set up and
they've got established lives and they can't always step away
from that to hang out with me when I happen to be in the
country. The next part of this that I
(13:02):
think we really need to talk about is money.
And when you're scheduling tripsto visit home or when you're
scheduling vacations to relax orexplore or do anything else,
money is a huge factor. And, and I think that a lot of
people believe, oh, you're living abroad, you must be so
rich and you must have so much money now and it must be so easy
(13:26):
for you to just pay for things. It's such a complicated topic
and I think maybe it might require a lot more discussion,
but maybe I would step in as a member of two minorities, which
is brown and African. And I will say that the
(13:49):
relationship between your familyand friends and money and
international living is very complicated because it's almost
embarrassing to say. Like I'm I'm feeling nervous to
talk about it because a lot of people don't realize that in
browner communities, a lot of children are part of parents
(14:13):
retirement plans that you have this child, you take care of
this child, this child grows up.This child is successful because
of the opportunities afforded bythe parent.
And then once the child is successful and is earning money,
they, they are now then responsible for the care of that
parent and the home and the household and anyone else who
(14:35):
happens to turn up because the parent might think that that's
where resources should be allocated.
And it's really difficult because it becomes even more
hard to shirk that obligation because you're living in Europe
or America or Australia or the UK or wherever it is that you
(14:58):
happen to be, and you're earningin a more powerful currency and
you're living this very fancy lifestyle, at least in their
eyes. And you now need to take into
consideration that everyone's got this expectation that you
are able to jump on an aeroplane, traverse the entire
(15:18):
planet to come there. And while you're there, you're
also spending money on everyone.And they are thinking, well, he
or she lives in Europe and everything is rocking for them.
They're living in the ultimate luxury.
They they go to different placesand all of these weird things
that people imagine, and then you're just left standing there
(15:43):
basically with an empty wallet in your home country trying to
uphold the weird impression thatthose people have got of what
your life really is. And I think when you go on
vacation, like holidays, it emphasizes that point even more
to the people who don't know thenumbers behind things.
(16:04):
So for example, Badejos is a city in Spain that Ryan and I
really enjoy. And you can drive there in about
two hours on the non toll road, an hour and a half if you take
the toll road and we'll take thedog and we'll go for the day.
And that costs us maybe €15 in gas for that trip to Spain.
(16:26):
And when we go there, yeah, maybe we'll have lunch, but it
would only be maybe €20 for lunch.
So maybe we've spent €3035 for the day, but we went to Spain
that day and it was nice and we enjoyed it when people from back
home here, oh, we just went to Spain for the day.
I think they're thinking that wedropped hundreds of EUR and had
(16:51):
this luxury experience and that's just not what happened.
Yeah, the concept of Spain to a lot of people in my community is
very strange because for some people it means, oh, you went to
Spain, so you traveled thousandsof kilometers to get to this
very exotic and fancy location. That must be the life.
(17:15):
Or you've got people who have noidea what going to Spain means
because it's just another word and just another place.
And they don't really understandit other than to know that, oh,
this guy and his wife and his dog went on an international
adventure for the weekend. What a life those two people are
(17:36):
living. And in both of those cases, you
really still are left trying to find interesting and weird words
to express what our lives are really like.
And to this day I don't think I've really been successful if
I'm honest. How can you describe something
(17:57):
that someone's never experiencedin a way that they can
understand it? I know for me personally, it's
always really difficult to understand when you just have no
experience in that thing whatsoever.
For people who in my case have never left the US, in your case
have never left South Africa, their idea of what it is to live
(18:19):
in another country is basically the same as living on Mars.
It's true, and you can't blame people for it.
I don't think that anyone's doing anything on purpose.
I don't think that there's any I'll will or malice in however
it is that people try to empathize with us in terms of
(18:40):
how we live our lives. But I do feel as though there's
often a disconnect with empathy sometimes of trying to
understand the bigger picture that we present with regards to
what our lives are like. Because there's an assumption
that how we live isn't very close to how normal people live,
(19:04):
albeit in a different country. And not having that
understanding sometimes creates very uncomfortable and difficult
and pressure our situations, which we often are in when we
try to interact and spend time with those people.
So let's end this on a higher note.
What are your absolute favorite things about visiting South
(19:28):
Africa? I don't know if that's a good
question. The reason being that I would
answer with everything that I have ever loved about South
Africa and I don't know if this is the time or place for it, but
in terms of what I look forward to going home and experiencing
(19:50):
is first of all is spending timewith my nieces.
I have 4 beautiful nieces and they are all growing up so
quickly. Too quickly in fact, and because
we only go back so seldom, maybeonce or twice a year if we're
lucky, I'm really only experiencing their lives almost
(20:13):
in snapshots and it really is special to go back and see how
each one of them have progressed.
As they've grown older and becoming the people that they're
eventually going to become, so my niece is eating a burger at
Spur restaurant. I want you all to know that it's
(20:35):
not a good restaurant. The burger isn't even
particularly very good, but it is dripping with nostalgia and
good memories and the South African spirit and eating a lot
of South African Indian food. A lot of people don't know this
about the huge community of Indian people in South Africa
(20:57):
who have a very unique culture that is based on regional Indian
culture. But we have specific kinds of
spices and foods which you cannot find anywhere else in the
world and I miss it terribly. I have some amazing aunties and
cousins who are always happy to cook for us whenever we're
(21:19):
there. I think Liz gets overloaded with
the spice levels, but it really is just a Taste of Home and
comfort for me. And in terms of the specific
food that we have out in South Africa from the Indian
community, my favorite is Lambrionni, cooked specifically
(21:42):
by my mom. Because there is nothing on this
planet that I hope for more thanthat taste in terms of comfort
and home and warmth and love. And I'm super grateful that I do
(22:04):
get to eat that biryani every time I do go home.
And then the last two things I feel are more as a result of
what I miss while I live in Portugal specifically.
And one is laughter in society and community.
(22:24):
I had no idea that when I left South Africa that South Africa,
amongst other countries, absolutely love to laugh.
The people of South Africa love to laugh and they laugh
everywhere and they're looking for a joke constantly and in
public. When you walk anywhere, you're
always going to hear someone laughing.
(22:45):
When you interact with anyone, it's always just a matter of
time before someone cracks a joke.
And I absolutely love that and Imiss that very much.
And the last thing that I miss the most is warm ocean water.
We live in Portugal where we're in the Atlantic zone, and it is
(23:06):
super cold water, amazing beaches, we love to surf.
It's an incredible experience tobe here.
But in South Africa, you've got the same thing but with warm
water, albeit with sharks. But let's ignore that little
bit. And you, what do you miss from
home? What do you look forward to when
we go back to the United States?It's the same as you in that the
(23:29):
people are #1 I have two nieces who are getting bigger every
day. And like you said, you don't
really get the same kind of interaction when you have a
video chat with them as when you're actually with them.
And it's so wonderful to spend real time and to play and to
laugh and to see the people thatthey're becoming because they're
(23:53):
getting to the age where they have personalities and thoughts
and feelings. And you can ask them a question
and they really have a conversation about what that
means to them. And I think it's, it's really
great that you have that experience in person that that
you really wouldn't get in the same way over over the phone.
(24:13):
Also, seeing the older people inmy life, I think is really
important. My dad is getting older, There's
aunts and uncles that are getting older, even the parents
of my friends who I've been close with my whole life.
I think it's really important tome that I get to see these
people and spend time with thesepeople because you really never
know. Life is short and time is
(24:36):
moving. And I think that's one of the
more sobering things that we do encounter whenever we do go
back. Because if you're watching
someone change one moment at a time over the course of years,
it really does stand out a lot more than it does when you're
watching them on a day-to-day basis.
(24:58):
Because I think it affects us too.
I mean, it's, I'm sure they're thinking exactly the same thing
when we go back where it's wow for Ryan is looking certainly at
least a year older because, well, the last time they saw me
was a year ago. And we're looking back at them
in exactly the same way. But also as time has gone by,
we're all getting older. And I think there's that level
(25:20):
of sadness I think that I carry where I do watch members of
older generations entering into those twilight phases of life.
And it's a subtle, not even a subtle, I think it's a obvious
reminder of mortality and time moving forward, irregardless of
(25:45):
how we feel about it. But I feel grateful every time I
do get to spend that time with those people too.
For sure the happier things thatI love in the US Broadway.
Look, when I was a kid my brother and I were super nerds.
So we got A's on every report card for everything.
(26:07):
But my parents made a rule that for every A we got, we got to
see a Broadway show. So I think it helped our super
nerd dumb because we really wanted to see those Broadway
shows. So Broadway was always a reward
when I was a kid. And I think as an adult, I still
see Broadway as such a gift and such a reward for being alive
(26:27):
and getting to enjoy live theater right in front of you.
I really love the last minute tickets that you can buy.
I sign up for all the lotteries,the cheaptickets.
I will see anything and everything.
I'm just happy to be their Broadway goer every single time.
What's your favorite Broadway production?
Oh, come on, it's Hamilton. Hamilton is.
(26:49):
It's amazing. When Hamilton first came out, it
was when my mom was going through chemotherapy and through
her cancer journey, and I used it as a coping mechanism in a
lot of ways. I memorized every single word to
every single song, and my friendand I got tickets to see the
original cast and I think we cried the entire time, but it
(27:15):
was this joyful, amazing experience.
One of the songs is room where it happens and that you get to
be in the room where it happens.And I think we just looked at
each other and bald because we were in the room where it
happens and I felt so lucky to be there and to experience that.
And yeah, I think living in Portugal where there is some
(27:40):
live theater, but most of it's not going to be in English and
most of it's not going to be Broadway level, it's really
something that I miss. And I'm so excited to see a
Broadway show every time I'm back in New York.
I also really love sports games in the USI love going to a Mets
game, even kids soccer games. I really think that in the US
(28:05):
people have a good time at a sports game and, and I have, I
always have a great time when I get to go food.
I mean, obviously we're going tohave to talk about favorites.
My say what you want about American food.
I know that a lot of people havea lot of assumptions about how
everything is processed and whatever.
(28:27):
And to an extent that's true. But in New York, you can get
food from every single country in the world right next to each
other. So you can have Korean for
dinner, have a drink at a Thai place, go for El Salvadorian, go
for anything you want, really. Like every country in the
world's food is represented, andit's not just represented in
(28:52):
some fake way. Like in Portugal, sometimes
you'll go to a quote Mexican restaurant, but it's really just
Indian food cooked by Indian people, and it's completely
Indian food. The fajitas are really just
chicken, and there's a lot of that going on where you're kind
of like, is this Mexican? Has anyone who's ever been to
(29:12):
Mexico ever tasted this food in New York?
The person who's cooking your Mexican food is from Mexico and
grew up in Mexico and cooked in Mexico.
The person who's cooking your Mongolian food is from Mongolia,
and you really do get authentic food that, in my opinion, is
often very delicious. New York's also expensive, so
(29:33):
most of these restaurants that aren't very good don't survive.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of food in the United States.
I know Liz is talking about the multicultural experience and the
variety of cuisines, but I thinkthat even generic American food
(29:53):
is its own experience. Going to Red Lobster and having
the Admirals feast is really nota highlight of eating food that
you're ever going to sort of remember with great love and
fondness, but it's got its own uniqueness in its experience.
So they have Cheddar Bay biscuits, which are like super
(30:18):
delicious and really not high quality and really not good for
you, but super delicious. And Gray's Papaya hot dogs,
which are not leading the way interms of Michelin stars, but
they're comforting and yummy andI love a dollar slice.
As well all of the chains like Ryan loves Olive Garden and
(30:41):
Cheesecake Factory and Applebee's.
I've gone to more of those chains since taking Ryan with me
on these trips to the US than I ever did before.
I have no shame when it comes tothat.
Cheesecake Factory is a gloriousplace where I wish every person
had the opportunity to visit. It has a menu that's a small
(31:05):
version of a novel, and I will read that novel every time I get
the chance to. And the last thing that I really
love in the US or holidays. I think the US does holidays
quite well. I know in my family we always
made a big deal of every small holiday, whether it's 4th of
July with fireworks and BBQ, Halloween with trick or treating
(31:29):
and costumes, Thanksgiving with all of the food and friends and
family and the obligatory shopping the next day.
Or Easter with painting eggs andgoing on egg hunts, or Hanukkah
with lighting candles and eatingamazing food.
I feel like holidays are taken really seriously in the US and
(31:53):
we have these traditions that will be the same every time, and
there's something really comforting to me about that.
Yeah, I think the holiday culture in America is super cool
because there are so many of them and there's so much culture
built around them. So you've got costumes, you've
got food, you've got family gatherings, and there's always
(32:16):
one to look forward to. So it kind of keeps people
looking forward to whatever is next as well as enjoying each
one. One of my favourites as well is
Thanksgiving. We I had never experienced
Thanksgiving before in South African culture.
So to have a day where people get together and the cause for
(32:39):
celebration is just the fact that we have so many things to
be thankful for, and in celebrating that we get to just
spend that time with each other.It's such a cool holiday to
have. I know that there's a big
history around it, and it becomes a whole complicated and
political thing, but that's not what I'm talking about.
(33:00):
I just think that it's so nice that people take the time to
give thanks for whatever it is that they happen to have in
their lives. And I feel like every culture
should have something like that or something similar.
Yeah. All right, Well, Are you ready
for? Would you rather?
(33:20):
I hope I'm ready. Tell me about the countries
we're choosing between today. Today we have two island
nations. We've got the Seychelles, okay,
And Iceland. These are two amazing places.
OK, I'm really this is going to be tough.
OK, would you rather eat a pizzain the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(33:43):
I think that one of the things that's going to play a big role
in whatever choices we're going to make for any of these
questions is the price of stuff,because island nations tend to
be significantly more expensive.And I know that Seychelles in
Iceland are really pricey when it comes to these kinds of
things. So I would choose the Seychelles
(34:06):
for my pizza. Not any particular reason other
than maybe the dream of sitting on a beautiful beach eating an
overpriced pizza. I could do the same thing in
Iceland, but maybe I'd be a bit warmer in the Seychelles.
And you? I feel like neither country is
(34:27):
really known for pizza, and whenI'm thinking of pizza in either
place, I'm not that excited. I feel like I'm going to go
Iceland though, because I think that maybe there is going to be
a slightly better pizza culture.What is pizza culture?
(34:52):
I don't know, Like people are eating pizza more often.
I don't know. Well, it is more of a European
nation, I guess, than Seychellesare, so maybe there are more
Italian people there, or maybe there are more people there who
enjoy a good piece of pizza. Maybe that's something we'd need
to learn for ourselves. All right, next one, would you
(35:14):
rather go for a hike in Iceland or in the Seychelles?
I would choose Iceland for this because the landscape there is
so unique and so special. And whenever I think about the
stuff that I saw in Iceland, it always reminds me of what the
Earth must have been like millions of years ago.
(35:35):
And being able to see that now is really a treat and really
something super unique. And I appreciate the lush
jungles of the Seychelles, that is gorgeous too.
But the specialness of Iceland really jumps out to me and you.
(35:58):
I'm also choosing Iceland because the last time we were in
Seychelles, Ryan got super hurt on our hike and we hiked through
a jungle to a beach and we hadn't been dating for that log
and he got really hurt and was aman about it and was like, I'm
fine, I'm fine, we don't need tostop, it's fine.
And obviously just made it worse.
(36:18):
Yes, I fell off the side of an actual mountain and damaged a
significant number of ligaments and tendons in my leg, which
Lystel helps me with by providing massages on the other
occasion, even to this day. So I think that Iceland might be
(36:38):
safer for both of us too. Next up, would you rather see
the wildlife in Iceland or the Seychelles?
That's a really good question. I feel as though most of the
wildlife in the Seychelles is inthe ocean, and we really enjoyed
snorkeling out there. And it's one of my best memories
(37:03):
of that country, spending time in the water, looking at the
little fishies around the corals.
But in Iceland they have those puffins, they have whales, they
have sharks. I think I'm going to go with
Iceland on this one. I really enjoy those bigger
(37:24):
animals in the ocean. Yeah, I think I'm agreeing with
the whales. I feel like every time you see a
whale, it feels like magic and it's really something to be able
to see whales. I don't know what it is about
whales that really gets people going, because whenever I see a
whale, I just feel like I'm seeing something so majestic and
(37:48):
almost ethereal, you know? It's got this like alien quality
about it that it's so unknowable, it's so mysterious,
it's so huge. And it's so rare that I feel
like when you see one, you almost feel like you
accomplished something. Like, yes, Oh my God, do you see
it? Do you see it?
Do you see it? And there's this huge excitement
(38:10):
that comes when you actually getto see one.
Absolutely, Absolutely. All right.
Next up, would you rather ask for directions in Iceland or in
the Seychelles? I think I would ask for
directions in Iceland because I probably need directions more in
Iceland because the Seychelles islands are remarkably small and
(38:34):
if you were to walk for half an hour or drive for 15 minutes, in
most cases, you'd probably find wherever it is that you're
wanting to go anyway. So I I would say I would say
Iceland. Easy.
See, I'm not going Iceland because I feel like those town
names are like 40 letters long and I would not understand what
(38:58):
someone's meant. That's a good.
Point. So I would go Seychelles because
yes, it's smaller and I feel like I probably have less chance
of getting lost, which I might or might not be known for
getting lost very easily. Next up, would you rather eat
the street food in Iceland or inSeychelles?
(39:18):
I would rather eat the street food of Seychelles because they
have some delicious preparation methods for very fresh seafood
and fish and they have these markets that happen on odd
occasions on weekly basis. And they cook the most delicious
(39:39):
crab and fish curries and stews.And I really enjoy the freshness
of the food there. And I don't feel like Iceland is
really a Mecca for gastronomic experience.
You did love that Icelandic hot dog street food though.
Well, one of the reasons why I loved it so much was because the
(40:01):
price was very reasonable in comparison to the other food
that was there as well as being.Really decent and comforting and
I enjoyed that, but I would still lean towards island style
cooking and eating. I couldn't agree more.
I think the street food that we had in Seychelles was
(40:22):
incredible. The fresh seafood, the
interesting preparations. I feel like they had a lot of
interesting spices and flavour combinations that I hadn't had
anywhere else that I really enjoyed.
It's an interesting group of people culturally and I think it
comes out nicely in a lot of that culture.
It's a very lively and spicy culture and you can tell by the
(40:45):
food, so I prefer that kind of food myself.
Right. Would you rather live for three
months in Iceland or in Seychelles?
You go first, you told me. OK, so I would go Iceland.
I think 3 months in Seychelles Iwould get cabin fever and I
think it would just feel too small for me.
(41:06):
And three months would be I would be itching to get to
something a bit bigger and have more city life.
So I'm choosing Iceland where I feel like 3 months I could do an
epic road trip and see a lot of the country and I also would get
(41:27):
a lot of those city comforts. Even though Reykjavik isn't
huge, it's still a lot bigger than any of the towns in
Seychelles. I would agree with you.
I think 3 months in Iceland would be a great opportunity to
explore the entire landmass because you'd be able to go from
town to town and spend quality time there.
(41:49):
And I'm sure that you'd actuallyend up seeing a lot of stuff
that many people wouldn't ever get the opportunity to see
because very few people spend long stretches there.
So being able to experience thatcountry without any real time
pressure and being able to explore fully I think would be
really a great experience. I think the Seychelles offers a
(42:12):
great experience in terms of theisland living lifestyle.
But I think I would agree with you that after a few weeks for
me I'd probably want to have some type of different
environment to explore. Next up, would you rather visit
for a long weekend in the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(42:34):
And I feel like for me this is perfect Seychelles.
A long weekend in the Seychellesis everything I want from the
Seychelles. You get to really enjoy the
beaches, you get to go on a hike, you get to swim and
snorkel and maybe see a second island even and eat some
delicious street food and seafood.
(42:54):
I feel like you could really experience the place in a long
weekend. Yeah, I would agree with you.
I'm on the same page. Next up, do a road trip.
Would you rather road trip in Iceland or Seychelles?
I feel like this is an obvious answer for Iceland.
An Icelandic road trip is a dream for so many people, me
included. Yeah, I think it sounds as if
(43:15):
we're slowly putting together a plan for the future, Liz.
A three month road trip throughout Iceland.
All right, Next up, would you rather learn the language of
Iceland or the Seychelles? Yeah, that's a really good
question. I think that being able to speak
Icelandic is super cool, and I think you'd probably make a lot
(43:35):
of friends at parties pulling out your Icelandic language
skills. But I think that Creole might be
even more interesting and exotic, and I think being able
to communicate in a way that's super unique like that might be
(43:55):
my choice. I think it's a really
interesting question because it's 2 languages that don't have
a ton of speakers and Icelandic.I'm coming back to the fact that
a lot of those words have like 40 letters in them and my fear
of that is pushing me toward Creole.
But I think you're right, if we were to both speak Creole, it
would almost be like a secret code because I feel like we
(44:17):
could go anywhere and the majority of people would not
understand us. It would really be cool being
able to talk in front of other people without anyone
understanding. I think is really cool.
We do that with Portuguese in non Portuguese speaking
countries and it's super useful.Especially when someone's like
annoying or we need to get out of a situation or leave a party.
(44:40):
Being able to switch to Portuguese and exit is really a
blessing. But then there's some Brazilians
in the crowd who give us a look because they understand
everything we just said, yeah. You can't always win, I guess.
All right, last up and this one,I'm interested in your answer.
Would you rather buy a house in the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(45:00):
I think I would lean towards getting a house in the
Seychelles because there's a certain level of quietness to it
and the beach vibe which really appeals to me.
So if ever there was the need for me to flee to a particular
country, maybe fleeing to the Seychelles wouldn't be such a
(45:24):
bad idea because you'd have the ocean, you'd have the beautiful
weather, you'd have the amazing people and the great food.
And yeah, I don't know if I'm truly convinced of my answer on
this one, but I would say Seychelles.
What do you think? I'm going Iceland only because I
think we would use it more. And I feel like if we had a
(45:44):
house in Iceland, we would be able to pop over and spend a
week, come back, pop over again in a different season.
And Iceland is so different in the different seasons, winter
versus summer, fall versus spring.
It's such a different experienceof the place that I think it
could be quite nice to be able to just pop in and out.
(46:06):
That's actually a good point because they have direct flights
now from Lisbon, so it's not even that far.
Maybe that's something that we need to look into, Liz.
But that's it for today. I just wanted to say thank you
to everyone for tuning in and spending this time with us.
We really enjoyed having this conversation with you.
(46:27):
If you have any thoughts or feelings or ideas, please share
them with us. We're on Instagram at Expats
Listen or you can e-mail us on expatslisten at gmailcom and
we're always hay to hear from you.
And until the next time, Kee. Well, bye bye.
Welcome to Expats Listen with Ryan and Liz, the podcast where
we share the ups and downs, struggles and celebrations of
living abroad. I'm Ryan.
And I'm Liz. And this has been a really good
week. I think we've spent a lot of
time hanging out with Mr. Henry,visiting interesting places,
(00:20):
spending time with some cool friends.
And happy to be here today with you, Liz.
Yeah, I think it's been quite a busy week and yesterday was the
first time that I went to bed super early and I feel like it's
such a life hack. Guys, I want to share this with
everyone. Sleep.
What a thing. When you actually get proper
(00:42):
sleep, I feel like a new person,like wow, I am ready to take on
the day. Yeah, we've definitely hit that
age where a good night's sleep is worth a lot more than it used
to be. So, Ryan, what are we talking
about today? Today we're talking about
needing to book holidays and trips home, and how confusing
(01:05):
and difficult and weird sometimes that process can be.
Living that expect life. Yeah, I think this has been
difficult for me since I moved abroad in in 2010.
And there's something about leaving that your friends and
family expect every single time that you have a vacation, you're
(01:27):
going to go and visit them because why wouldn't you?
The 1st place that I moved abroad was actually Australia,
which might be the furthest place away from New York that
you could possibly go. And when I went there, I did
want to see my friends and family back in New York as much
as I could. But I was in Australia and I was
(01:47):
working full time and I had limited vacation days.
And I remember there was always this tension of can you take a
vacation for yourself? Like can you just go away for a
long weekend and take a day off work for that?
Or by doing that, am I like doing wrong to my family?
(02:11):
Like will my mom be mad if I take this little vacation and
don't spend that extra day with her where I could have?
What about my aunts and my uncles and my cousins and my
friends And like all of these people that you need to see when
you're taking these trips and they need to be longer trips in
order to do that, but you don't have that many days.
(02:31):
And when you're working full time and you're trying to
balance everything, I feel like it can just be really difficult
mentally to wrap your head around how to schedule vacation.
Well, I think I'm actually very impressed that it's such an
existential and abstract question for you with regards to
(02:52):
what your family's expectations are, because from my side, it's
quite an easy question and answer.
Yes, they do expect you to come and visit them any moment that
you're not working or doing something important.
It's not even a question of whether or not you're able to go
on holiday or go and try something new and different
(03:13):
somewhere else. It's an immediate, oh, so you've
got some time off. What time should I pick you up
at the airport? Yeah.
And, and I think it's violencingthat.
I think you can't expect that every single vacation of your
life is going to be a trip home,but you also need to go home.
And I think I don't want it to ever come across that I don't
(03:36):
want to visit home and that I don't want to visit my friends
and family. But sometimes you also want to
relax a little bit and sometimesyou want to explore and go on an
adventure and be somewhere new and eat new food.
And for people like us who love travel as much as we really,
truly love travel, it can be really difficult to say, OK, I'm
(03:57):
using all of my vacation days this year to visit home again.
And I'm not going to see anything I haven't seen.
And I'm not going to go anywhereI haven't gone.
And I'm not going to do anythingI haven't done because I'm just
going to go and and visit these people.
Yeah, I think that our family, when they're imagining our lives
here away from them, they're imagining that we're actually
(04:20):
doing that every day, exploring and going on adventures and
doing interesting things all thetime.
And they don't actually really consider the idea that the most
prevalent part of our time is spent doing day-to-day boring
work life kinds of things. And so when we are like, OK, we
(04:43):
want to go on a holiday. They're thinking, yeah, but
you've been on a holiday since you've left home, So what are
you talking about? There's also the mental
gymnastics of these trips home where it's not just you go and
visit your parents house and yousleep in your childhood bedroom
and everything is really relaxing and you're just hanging
(05:06):
out. No, these trips home are busy
and packed. I know for me it's always this
spreadsheet of, OK, this person is only available on Tuesday for
lunch and that person is only available after 8:00 PM on
Thursday. But they live very close to each
other. So I'm going to have to go there
(05:26):
and then I'm going to have to come back.
And New York is one of those places where everyone is just
far from each other. There's to get from Brooklyn to
Queens can take you an hour to get from Long Island, where some
of my family lives back to the city.
I have friends who live in New Jersey.
Now, all of these trips take time half an hour, an hour, an
(05:48):
hour and a half, two hours. And you really need to look at
who you're going to see and whenyou're going to see them and put
it together into this matrix of some kind of level of efficiency
in order to see all of the people that you want to see and
to spend time with them when they're free.
And the older we get, the harderit is.
(06:09):
When I was 25 and taking a trip back to New York, I feel like it
was a lot easier because it would just be, let's go to this
bar and everyone would just cometo the bar and that would be
fine. But now my friends have families
and small children, and the scheduling is so much more
(06:29):
difficult than it's ever been before.
And it really is like they can'tdo Tuesday.
That's just impossible. Tuesday is impossible because
I've got 16 things on and yes, I'm going to be in Brooklyn
right next to their house, but Ican't see them on Tuesday.
So I need to figure out what else I'm going to do.
And then I'm going to come back.And I think it takes me weeks to
(06:51):
figure out exactly when I'm going to be able to see each
person and where to go and all of that.
And it feels stressful, to be honest.
And I feel a lot of guilt when I'm not able to see someone.
And I feel extra guilt if I wasn't able to see someone on my
last trip and now I'm going backto New York and I'm still not
(07:14):
going to see them. I feel terrible.
And I feel like I really try to move heaven and earth in order
to get the schedule to work in away where I can see all the
people that I feel I owe my timeto.
Because I love these people and I want to spend time with these
people. And it is difficult sometimes.
(07:35):
Do you think that's a healthy way of looking at it in terms of
needing to move heaven and earthto see people when you're the
one that's going there? Of course it's not healthy.
I never thought it was. But my guilt runs deep, Ryan.
No, I mean, I think that's, that's why this is a big
conversation for us today. I just think that it's an
(07:57):
interesting dynamic where we go to these places.
It's not just you. There's so many of us who do it.
I do it when I go to South Africa, but we make these huge
trips and we go out of our way to find time to spend with
people around these schedules, around whatever it is that's
happening in their lives. And I'm happy to do it.
(08:20):
But I think that one of the things that comes up for me is
not necessarily guilt, but sometimes a certain level of
disappointment that I need to work as hard as I need to to
spend time with those people when I'm the one that's actually
making so much more of an effort.
And I find that difficult because I do want to spend time
with them, but it's almost tempered by a little bit of that
(08:43):
disappointment that I'm needing to bend over backwards to put in
that effort to make that time sothat it's on the schedule.
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel the other way.
I feel like it's all my fault and I feel like I left.
It was my choice to leave. They stayed.
If I had stayed like they did, then I would be able to see them
(09:07):
on whenever they wanted and I could see them on their schedule
and we could make it work and itwould be so much easier.
But I didn't. I left.
And because I left, I feel like it's completely on me and that
this responsibility is, if not 100 percent, 99% mine of making
(09:28):
it work to see them. So you did something wrong by
leaving. I think maybe I feel that way.
I think maybe deep down I feel like the the common life, the
expected life, the, the expectation that was on me was
to stay. And if I had done that the way
(09:49):
that all of them had, then this would be so easy.
But I didn't do that. So it was my choice and it was
my fault. Yeah, look, it's a it's a tough
way of looking at it. I think if you find yourself
feeling like you've done something wrong by spreading
your wings and living the life you wanted to live.
(10:09):
But I guess, you know, we all have different feelings about
having left home. Maybe it'll be something that we
talk about in the future, but when I consider what it is that
I owe people back home in terms of visitation, in terms of
activities, even general correspondence, I tend to find
(10:30):
that distance between us is not necessarily just geographical.
I think there is more of a distance between us in terms of
relationship because we don't spend that time together anymore
because I am so far away. And so now I feel as though I'm
not really as obligated as I used to be when I lived there,
(10:52):
because if I lived down the road, I feel as though I should
be seeing them more regularly. Whereas now when I live on
another continent, I feel as though I'm in your country, I'm
in your town, I'm in your general area.
I feel is that we should do something because we're close
enough to get it done, but I'm not really losing any sleep over
(11:14):
us not making it work. Because I've come this far to
your area and if you can't meet me 10 meters down the road from
your house, then I don't know ifthat's on me anymore.
I understand and I don't agree. And I think for me it's like
(11:34):
it's really the opposite. Because I feel like if I were
down the road and if I were living there, I wouldn't feel
that obligation to go to my friend's son's soccer game on a
random Saturday. Because I could go to any other
soccer game on any other Saturday.
But I'm only there for two Saturdays of the whole year.
(11:56):
So now I feel like I really haveto go.
Well, I think it's clear who would be the good cop and who
would be the bad cop between US.So at least that's established
between US and for anyone who happens to be listening to this
podcast. But definitely interested to
hear what you guys think. And do you agree more with Ryan
that when you go home, your friends should be making the
(12:19):
effort? Or do you agree more with me
thinking that you're the one wholeft, so you're the one who has
to make all the plans and put inall the effort?
I've really got my thumbs held and my fingers crossed that the
general perspective is somewherein the middle.
So too because I feel like maybeI am bending over backwards and
(12:40):
trying to move heaven and earth a bit too much, and maybe Ryan
has a point. And maybe I need to be more
understanding that other people have got the routine set up and
they've got established lives and they can't always step away
from that to hang out with me when I happen to be in the
country. The next part of this that I
(13:02):
think we really need to talk about is money.
And when you're scheduling tripsto visit home or when you're
scheduling vacations to relax orexplore or do anything else,
money is a huge factor. And, and I think that a lot of
people believe, oh, you're living abroad, you must be so
rich and you must have so much money now and it must be so easy
(13:26):
for you to just pay for things. It's such a complicated topic
and I think maybe it might require a lot more discussion,
but maybe I would step in as a member of two minorities, which
is brown and African. And I will say that the
(13:49):
relationship between your familyand friends and money and
international living is very complicated because it's almost
embarrassing to say. Like I'm I'm feeling nervous to
talk about it because a lot of people don't realize that in
browner communities, a lot of children are part of parents
(14:13):
retirement plans that you have this child, you take care of
this child, this child grows up.This child is successful because
of the opportunities afforded bythe parent.
And then once the child is successful and is earning money,
they, they are now then responsible for the care of that
parent and the home and the household and anyone else who
(14:35):
happens to turn up because the parent might think that that's
where resources should be allocated.
And it's really difficult because it becomes even more
hard to shirk that obligation because you're living in Europe
or America or Australia or the UK or wherever it is that you
(14:58):
happen to be, and you're earningin a more powerful currency and
you're living this very fancy lifestyle, at least in their
eyes. And you now need to take into
consideration that everyone's got this expectation that you
are able to jump on an aeroplane, traverse the entire
(15:18):
planet to come there. And while you're there, you're
also spending money on everyone.And they are thinking, well, he
or she lives in Europe and everything is rocking for them.
They're living in the ultimate luxury.
They they go to different placesand all of these weird things
that people imagine, and then you're just left standing there
(15:43):
basically with an empty wallet in your home country trying to
uphold the weird impression thatthose people have got of what
your life really is. And I think when you go on
vacation, like holidays, it emphasizes that point even more
to the people who don't know thenumbers behind things.
(16:04):
So for example, Badejos is a city in Spain that Ryan and I
really enjoy. And you can drive there in about
two hours on the non toll road, an hour and a half if you take
the toll road and we'll take thedog and we'll go for the day.
And that costs us maybe €15 in gas for that trip to Spain.
(16:26):
And when we go there, yeah, maybe we'll have lunch, but it
would only be maybe €20 for lunch.
So maybe we've spent €3035 for the day, but we went to Spain
that day and it was nice and we enjoyed it when people from back
home here, oh, we just went to Spain for the day.
I think they're thinking that wedropped hundreds of EUR and had
(16:51):
this luxury experience and that's just not what happened.
Yeah, the concept of Spain to a lot of people in my community is
very strange because for some people it means, oh, you went to
Spain, so you traveled thousandsof kilometers to get to this
very exotic and fancy location. That must be the life.
(17:15):
Or you've got people who have noidea what going to Spain means
because it's just another word and just another place.
And they don't really understandit other than to know that, oh,
this guy and his wife and his dog went on an international
adventure for the weekend. What a life those two people are
(17:36):
living. And in both of those cases, you
really still are left trying to find interesting and weird words
to express what our lives are really like.
And to this day I don't think I've really been successful if
I'm honest. How can you describe something
(17:57):
that someone's never experiencedin a way that they can
understand it? I know for me personally, it's
always really difficult to understand when you just have no
experience in that thing whatsoever.
For people who in my case have never left the US, in your case
have never left South Africa, their idea of what it is to live
(18:19):
in another country is basically the same as living on Mars.
It's true, and you can't blame people for it.
I don't think that anyone's doing anything on purpose.
I don't think that there's any I'll will or malice in however
it is that people try to empathize with us in terms of
(18:40):
how we live our lives. But I do feel as though there's
often a disconnect with empathy sometimes of trying to
understand the bigger picture that we present with regards to
what our lives are like. Because there's an assumption
that how we live isn't very close to how normal people live,
(19:04):
albeit in a different country. And not having that
understanding sometimes creates very uncomfortable and difficult
and pressure our situations, which we often are in when we
try to interact and spend time with those people.
So let's end this on a higher note.
What are your absolute favorite things about visiting South
(19:28):
Africa? I don't know if that's a good
question. The reason being that I would
answer with everything that I have ever loved about South
Africa and I don't know if this is the time or place for it, but
in terms of what I look forward to going home and experiencing
(19:50):
is first of all is spending timewith my nieces.
I have 4 beautiful nieces and they are all growing up so
quickly. Too quickly in fact, and because
we only go back so seldom, maybeonce or twice a year if we're
lucky, I'm really only experiencing their lives almost
(20:13):
in snapshots and it really is special to go back and see how
each one of them have progressed.
As they've grown older and becoming the people that they're
eventually going to become, so my niece is eating a burger at
Spur restaurant. I want you all to know that it's
(20:35):
not a good restaurant. The burger isn't even
particularly very good, but it is dripping with nostalgia and
good memories and the South African spirit and eating a lot
of South African Indian food. A lot of people don't know this
about the huge community of Indian people in South Africa
(20:57):
who have a very unique culture that is based on regional Indian
culture. But we have specific kinds of
spices and foods which you cannot find anywhere else in the
world and I miss it terribly. I have some amazing aunties and
cousins who are always happy to cook for us whenever we're
(21:19):
there. I think Liz gets overloaded with
the spice levels, but it really is just a Taste of Home and
comfort for me. And in terms of the specific
food that we have out in South Africa from the Indian
community, my favorite is Lambrionni, cooked specifically
(21:42):
by my mom. Because there is nothing on this
planet that I hope for more thanthat taste in terms of comfort
and home and warmth and love. And I'm super grateful that I do
(22:04):
get to eat that biryani every time I do go home.
And then the last two things I feel are more as a result of
what I miss while I live in Portugal specifically.
And one is laughter in society and community.
(22:24):
I had no idea that when I left South Africa that South Africa,
amongst other countries, absolutely love to laugh.
The people of South Africa love to laugh and they laugh
everywhere and they're looking for a joke constantly and in
public. When you walk anywhere, you're
always going to hear someone laughing.
(22:45):
When you interact with anyone, it's always just a matter of
time before someone cracks a joke.
And I absolutely love that and Imiss that very much.
And the last thing that I miss the most is warm ocean water.
We live in Portugal where we're in the Atlantic zone, and it is
(23:06):
super cold water, amazing beaches, we love to surf.
It's an incredible experience tobe here.
But in South Africa, you've got the same thing but with warm
water, albeit with sharks. But let's ignore that little
bit. And you, what do you miss from
home? What do you look forward to when
we go back to the United States?It's the same as you in that the
(23:29):
people are #1 I have two nieces who are getting bigger every
day. And like you said, you don't
really get the same kind of interaction when you have a
video chat with them as when you're actually with them.
And it's so wonderful to spend real time and to play and to
laugh and to see the people thatthey're becoming because they're
(23:53):
getting to the age where they have personalities and thoughts
and feelings. And you can ask them a question
and they really have a conversation about what that
means to them. And I think it's, it's really
great that you have that experience in person that that
you really wouldn't get in the same way over over the phone.
(24:13):
Also, seeing the older people inmy life, I think is really
important. My dad is getting older, There's
aunts and uncles that are getting older, even the parents
of my friends who I've been close with my whole life.
I think it's really important tome that I get to see these
people and spend time with thesepeople because you really never
know. Life is short and time is
(24:36):
moving. And I think that's one of the
more sobering things that we do encounter whenever we do go
back. Because if you're watching
someone change one moment at a time over the course of years,
it really does stand out a lot more than it does when you're
watching them on a day-to-day basis.
(24:58):
Because I think it affects us too.
I mean, it's, I'm sure they're thinking exactly the same thing
when we go back where it's wow for Ryan is looking certainly at
least a year older because, well, the last time they saw me
was a year ago. And we're looking back at them
in exactly the same way. But also as time has gone by,
we're all getting older. And I think there's that level
(25:20):
of sadness I think that I carry where I do watch members of
older generations entering into those twilight phases of life.
And it's a subtle, not even a subtle, I think it's a obvious
reminder of mortality and time moving forward, irregardless of
(25:45):
how we feel about it. But I feel grateful every time I
do get to spend that time with those people too.
For sure the happier things thatI love in the US Broadway.
Look, when I was a kid my brother and I were super nerds.
So we got A's on every report card for everything.
(26:07):
But my parents made a rule that for every A we got, we got to
see a Broadway show. So I think it helped our super
nerd dumb because we really wanted to see those Broadway
shows. So Broadway was always a reward
when I was a kid. And I think as an adult, I still
see Broadway as such a gift and such a reward for being alive
(26:27):
and getting to enjoy live theater right in front of you.
I really love the last minute tickets that you can buy.
I sign up for all the lotteries,the cheaptickets.
I will see anything and everything.
I'm just happy to be their Broadway goer every single time.
What's your favorite Broadway production?
Oh, come on, it's Hamilton. Hamilton is.
(26:49):
It's amazing. When Hamilton first came out, it
was when my mom was going through chemotherapy and through
her cancer journey, and I used it as a coping mechanism in a
lot of ways. I memorized every single word to
every single song, and my friendand I got tickets to see the
original cast and I think we cried the entire time, but it
(27:15):
was this joyful, amazing experience.
One of the songs is room where it happens and that you get to
be in the room where it happens.And I think we just looked at
each other and bald because we were in the room where it
happens and I felt so lucky to be there and to experience that.
And yeah, I think living in Portugal where there is some
(27:40):
live theater, but most of it's not going to be in English and
most of it's not going to be Broadway level, it's really
something that I miss. And I'm so excited to see a
Broadway show every time I'm back in New York.
I also really love sports games in the USI love going to a Mets
game, even kids soccer games. I really think that in the US
(28:05):
people have a good time at a sports game and, and I have, I
always have a great time when I get to go food.
I mean, obviously we're going tohave to talk about favorites.
My say what you want about American food.
I know that a lot of people havea lot of assumptions about how
everything is processed and whatever.
(28:27):
And to an extent that's true. But in New York, you can get
food from every single country in the world right next to each
other. So you can have Korean for
dinner, have a drink at a Thai place, go for El Salvadorian, go
for anything you want, really. Like every country in the
world's food is represented, andit's not just represented in
(28:52):
some fake way. Like in Portugal, sometimes
you'll go to a quote Mexican restaurant, but it's really just
Indian food cooked by Indian people, and it's completely
Indian food. The fajitas are really just
chicken, and there's a lot of that going on where you're kind
of like, is this Mexican? Has anyone who's ever been to
(29:12):
Mexico ever tasted this food in New York?
The person who's cooking your Mexican food is from Mexico and
grew up in Mexico and cooked in Mexico.
The person who's cooking your Mongolian food is from Mongolia,
and you really do get authentic food that, in my opinion, is
often very delicious. New York's also expensive, so
(29:33):
most of these restaurants that aren't very good don't survive.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of food in the United States.
I know Liz is talking about the multicultural experience and the
variety of cuisines, but I thinkthat even generic American food
(29:53):
is its own experience. Going to Red Lobster and having
the Admirals feast is really nota highlight of eating food that
you're ever going to sort of remember with great love and
fondness, but it's got its own uniqueness in its experience.
So they have Cheddar Bay biscuits, which are like super
(30:18):
delicious and really not high quality and really not good for
you, but super delicious. And Gray's Papaya hot dogs,
which are not leading the way interms of Michelin stars, but
they're comforting and yummy andI love a dollar slice.
As well all of the chains like Ryan loves Olive Garden and
(30:41):
Cheesecake Factory and Applebee's.
I've gone to more of those chains since taking Ryan with me
on these trips to the US than I ever did before.
I have no shame when it comes tothat.
Cheesecake Factory is a gloriousplace where I wish every person
had the opportunity to visit. It has a menu that's a small
(31:05):
version of a novel, and I will read that novel every time I get
the chance to. And the last thing that I really
love in the US or holidays. I think the US does holidays
quite well. I know in my family we always
made a big deal of every small holiday, whether it's 4th of
July with fireworks and BBQ, Halloween with trick or treating
(31:29):
and costumes, Thanksgiving with all of the food and friends and
family and the obligatory shopping the next day.
Or Easter with painting eggs andgoing on egg hunts, or Hanukkah
with lighting candles and eatingamazing food.
I feel like holidays are taken really seriously in the US and
(31:53):
we have these traditions that will be the same every time, and
there's something really comforting to me about that.
Yeah, I think the holiday culture in America is super cool
because there are so many of them and there's so much culture
built around them. So you've got costumes, you've
got food, you've got family gatherings, and there's always
(32:16):
one to look forward to. So it kind of keeps people
looking forward to whatever is next as well as enjoying each
one. One of my favourites as well is
Thanksgiving. We I had never experienced
Thanksgiving before in South African culture.
So to have a day where people get together and the cause for
(32:39):
celebration is just the fact that we have so many things to
be thankful for, and in celebrating that we get to just
spend that time with each other.It's such a cool holiday to
have. I know that there's a big
history around it, and it becomes a whole complicated and
political thing, but that's not what I'm talking about.
(33:00):
I just think that it's so nice that people take the time to
give thanks for whatever it is that they happen to have in
their lives. And I feel like every culture
should have something like that or something similar.
Yeah. All right, Well, Are you ready
for? Would you rather?
(33:20):
I hope I'm ready. Tell me about the countries
we're choosing between today. Today we have two island
nations. We've got the Seychelles, okay,
And Iceland. These are two amazing places.
OK, I'm really this is going to be tough.
OK, would you rather eat a pizzain the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(33:43):
I think that one of the things that's going to play a big role
in whatever choices we're going to make for any of these
questions is the price of stuff,because island nations tend to
be significantly more expensive.And I know that Seychelles in
Iceland are really pricey when it comes to these kinds of
things. So I would choose the Seychelles
(34:06):
for my pizza. Not any particular reason other
than maybe the dream of sitting on a beautiful beach eating an
overpriced pizza. I could do the same thing in
Iceland, but maybe I'd be a bit warmer in the Seychelles.
And you? I feel like neither country is
(34:27):
really known for pizza, and whenI'm thinking of pizza in either
place, I'm not that excited. I feel like I'm going to go
Iceland though, because I think that maybe there is going to be
a slightly better pizza culture.What is pizza culture?
(34:52):
I don't know, Like people are eating pizza more often.
I don't know. Well, it is more of a European
nation, I guess, than Seychellesare, so maybe there are more
Italian people there, or maybe there are more people there who
enjoy a good piece of pizza. Maybe that's something we'd need
to learn for ourselves. All right, next one, would you
(35:14):
rather go for a hike in Iceland or in the Seychelles?
I would choose Iceland for this because the landscape there is
so unique and so special. And whenever I think about the
stuff that I saw in Iceland, it always reminds me of what the
Earth must have been like millions of years ago.
(35:35):
And being able to see that now is really a treat and really
something super unique. And I appreciate the lush
jungles of the Seychelles, that is gorgeous too.
But the specialness of Iceland really jumps out to me and you.
(35:58):
I'm also choosing Iceland because the last time we were in
Seychelles, Ryan got super hurt on our hike and we hiked through
a jungle to a beach and we hadn't been dating for that log
and he got really hurt and was aman about it and was like, I'm
fine, I'm fine, we don't need tostop, it's fine.
And obviously just made it worse.
(36:18):
Yes, I fell off the side of an actual mountain and damaged a
significant number of ligaments and tendons in my leg, which
Lystel helps me with by providing massages on the other
occasion, even to this day. So I think that Iceland might be
(36:38):
safer for both of us too. Next up, would you rather see
the wildlife in Iceland or the Seychelles?
That's a really good question. I feel as though most of the
wildlife in the Seychelles is inthe ocean, and we really enjoyed
snorkeling out there. And it's one of my best memories
(37:03):
of that country, spending time in the water, looking at the
little fishies around the corals.
But in Iceland they have those puffins, they have whales, they
have sharks. I think I'm going to go with
Iceland on this one. I really enjoy those bigger
(37:24):
animals in the ocean. Yeah, I think I'm agreeing with
the whales. I feel like every time you see a
whale, it feels like magic and it's really something to be able
to see whales. I don't know what it is about
whales that really gets people going, because whenever I see a
whale, I just feel like I'm seeing something so majestic and
(37:48):
almost ethereal, you know? It's got this like alien quality
about it that it's so unknowable, it's so mysterious,
it's so huge. And it's so rare that I feel
like when you see one, you almost feel like you
accomplished something. Like, yes, Oh my God, do you see
it? Do you see it?
Do you see it? And there's this huge excitement
(38:10):
that comes when you actually getto see one.
Absolutely, Absolutely. All right.
Next up, would you rather ask for directions in Iceland or in
the Seychelles? I think I would ask for
directions in Iceland because I probably need directions more in
Iceland because the Seychelles islands are remarkably small and
(38:34):
if you were to walk for half an hour or drive for 15 minutes, in
most cases, you'd probably find wherever it is that you're
wanting to go anyway. So I I would say I would say
Iceland. Easy.
See, I'm not going Iceland because I feel like those town
names are like 40 letters long and I would not understand what
(38:58):
someone's meant. That's a good.
Point. So I would go Seychelles because
yes, it's smaller and I feel like I probably have less chance
of getting lost, which I might or might not be known for
getting lost very easily. Next up, would you rather eat
the street food in Iceland or inSeychelles?
(39:18):
I would rather eat the street food of Seychelles because they
have some delicious preparation methods for very fresh seafood
and fish and they have these markets that happen on odd
occasions on weekly basis. And they cook the most delicious
(39:39):
crab and fish curries and stews.And I really enjoy the freshness
of the food there. And I don't feel like Iceland is
really a Mecca for gastronomic experience.
You did love that Icelandic hot dog street food though.
Well, one of the reasons why I loved it so much was because the
(40:01):
price was very reasonable in comparison to the other food
that was there as well as being.Really decent and comforting and
I enjoyed that, but I would still lean towards island style
cooking and eating. I couldn't agree more.
I think the street food that we had in Seychelles was
(40:22):
incredible. The fresh seafood, the
interesting preparations. I feel like they had a lot of
interesting spices and flavour combinations that I hadn't had
anywhere else that I really enjoyed.
It's an interesting group of people culturally and I think it
comes out nicely in a lot of that culture.
It's a very lively and spicy culture and you can tell by the
(40:45):
food, so I prefer that kind of food myself.
Right. Would you rather live for three
months in Iceland or in Seychelles?
You go first, you told me. OK, so I would go Iceland.
I think 3 months in Seychelles Iwould get cabin fever and I
think it would just feel too small for me.
(41:06):
And three months would be I would be itching to get to
something a bit bigger and have more city life.
So I'm choosing Iceland where I feel like 3 months I could do an
epic road trip and see a lot of the country and I also would get
(41:27):
a lot of those city comforts. Even though Reykjavik isn't
huge, it's still a lot bigger than any of the towns in
Seychelles. I would agree with you.
I think 3 months in Iceland would be a great opportunity to
explore the entire landmass because you'd be able to go from
town to town and spend quality time there.
(41:49):
And I'm sure that you'd actuallyend up seeing a lot of stuff
that many people wouldn't ever get the opportunity to see
because very few people spend long stretches there.
So being able to experience thatcountry without any real time
pressure and being able to explore fully I think would be
really a great experience. I think the Seychelles offers a
(42:12):
great experience in terms of theisland living lifestyle.
But I think I would agree with you that after a few weeks for
me I'd probably want to have some type of different
environment to explore. Next up, would you rather visit
for a long weekend in the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(42:34):
And I feel like for me this is perfect Seychelles.
A long weekend in the Seychellesis everything I want from the
Seychelles. You get to really enjoy the
beaches, you get to go on a hike, you get to swim and
snorkel and maybe see a second island even and eat some
delicious street food and seafood.
(42:54):
I feel like you could really experience the place in a long
weekend. Yeah, I would agree with you.
I'm on the same page. Next up, do a road trip.
Would you rather road trip in Iceland or Seychelles?
I feel like this is an obvious answer for Iceland.
An Icelandic road trip is a dream for so many people, me
included. Yeah, I think it sounds as if
(43:15):
we're slowly putting together a plan for the future, Liz.
A three month road trip throughout Iceland.
All right, Next up, would you rather learn the language of
Iceland or the Seychelles? Yeah, that's a really good
question. I think that being able to speak
Icelandic is super cool, and I think you'd probably make a lot
(43:35):
of friends at parties pulling out your Icelandic language
skills. But I think that Creole might be
even more interesting and exotic, and I think being able
to communicate in a way that's super unique like that might be
(43:55):
my choice. I think it's a really
interesting question because it's 2 languages that don't have
a ton of speakers and Icelandic.I'm coming back to the fact that
a lot of those words have like 40 letters in them and my fear
of that is pushing me toward Creole.
But I think you're right, if we were to both speak Creole, it
would almost be like a secret code because I feel like we
(44:17):
could go anywhere and the majority of people would not
understand us. It would really be cool being
able to talk in front of other people without anyone
understanding. I think is really cool.
We do that with Portuguese in non Portuguese speaking
countries and it's super useful.Especially when someone's like
annoying or we need to get out of a situation or leave a party.
(44:40):
Being able to switch to Portuguese and exit is really a
blessing. But then there's some Brazilians
in the crowd who give us a look because they understand
everything we just said, yeah. You can't always win, I guess.
All right, last up and this one,I'm interested in your answer.
Would you rather buy a house in the Seychelles or in Iceland?
(45:00):
I think I would lean towards getting a house in the
Seychelles because there's a certain level of quietness to it
and the beach vibe which really appeals to me.
So if ever there was the need for me to flee to a particular
country, maybe fleeing to the Seychelles wouldn't be such a
(45:24):
bad idea because you'd have the ocean, you'd have the beautiful
weather, you'd have the amazing people and the great food.
And yeah, I don't know if I'm truly convinced of my answer on
this one, but I would say Seychelles.
What do you think? I'm going Iceland only because I
think we would use it more. And I feel like if we had a
(45:44):
house in Iceland, we would be able to pop over and spend a
week, come back, pop over again in a different season.
And Iceland is so different in the different seasons, winter
versus summer, fall versus spring.
It's such a different experienceof the place that I think it
could be quite nice to be able to just pop in and out.
(46:06):
That's actually a good point because they have direct flights
now from Lisbon, so it's not even that far.
Maybe that's something that we need to look into, Liz.
But that's it for today. I just wanted to say thank you
to everyone for tuning in and spending this time with us.
We really enjoyed having this conversation with you.
(46:27):
If you have any thoughts or feelings or ideas, please share
them with us. We're on Instagram at Expats
Listen or you can e-mail us on expatslisten at gmailcom and
we're always hay to hear from you.
And until the next time, Kee. Well, bye bye.
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