August 14, 2025 • 58 mins
Thinking of making the move to Portugal? You're not alone! So many folks have recently made the move or are planning it now. Stop reading articles that tell you how idyllic and perfect your life will be here. There are phenomenal things about living in Portugal, but you also need to hear some of the hard truths of what you need to accept if you want to live here. So let's get going. Don't move to Portugal unless.......
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Expats Listen with Ryan and Liz.
This is the podcast where we share the ups and downs, the
struggles and the celebrations of living abroad.
I'm Ryan. And I'm Liz Ryan, how was your
week? Oh this was a really busy and
awesome week. We did a road trip and we find
ourselves in Bordeaux, France and it's our first time here and
(00:23):
I am absolutely loving the city.It's gorgeous and obviously the
food is the highlight and I haveeaten way too much duck this
week. And how are things with you,
Liz? Yeah, I mean the same.
I'm very, very full of duck and it's amazing and also a bit
difficult at times because I can't say no.
I don't know about other people and self-control, but I really
(00:46):
don't think I have any. When something is truly
delicious, like every bite is incredible, I don't know how
people stop eating. I really don't understand it.
So I just keep eating it. I keep eating it, I keep eating,
and then I feel a bit sick afterward.
But it was amazing in every bitethat I experienced.
(01:07):
I have 0 regrets. Me neither.
OK, well, we're not talking about food this week, but what
are we talking about, Ryan? We're talking about whether or
not moving to Portugal might be for you.
So you think you want to move toPortugal?
Yeah, I think this is quite a big one because there are so
many people thinking about moving to Portugal right now, so
(01:30):
many people coming to Portugal right now, and it's such a
popular destination. I feel like it's on every list.
My dad's retirement community has everyone talking about it.
It's mentioned constantly, it's in so many conversations and I
really think this is one of those times where the sugar
(01:50):
coated version of things is whateveryone gets told and we're
here to tell you the reality. Yeah, it's been such a hot topic
for a good few years now and I think so many people are
considering it more and more. And while they're doing the
consideration, so many things are changing.
So I think it's a really good idea to cover what the reality
(02:11):
is of the situation before you jump on an aeroplane and arrive.
So looking forward to this. Yeah, so I guess let's start
with the good, the bad and the ugly.
So the good. We've got weather, obviously a
lot of people are coming here for sunny weather, nice weather,
warm weather, no snow, all of this.
We've got healthcare. We'll get into it in other
(02:33):
topics, but Ryan and I have bothused the healthcare system and
have been so impressed. We know that there are issues
with not having enough doctors and doctors having to work too
much overtime, but in general I have been nothing but impressed
with the Portuguese healthcare system.
Fish, I have to say, like fresh fish in Portugal is
(02:56):
unbelievable. We eat so much of it.
Ryan, I think you've eaten more fish since moving to Portugal
than in every year of your life before that combined.
What a new and amazing addition to my life, really so good and
to be able to have fish of this quality, I'm a lucky, lucky boy.
Wine. We are talking to you from
France right now and I'm still telling you that Portuguese wine
(03:17):
is phenomenal. It's well priced, it's really
good quality. It's hard to find a bad bottle
of wine. There are gorgeous beaches.
The beaches are truly stunning from the north to where we live
in the middle of the country, all the way down South.
There are cliffs, there are these beautiful little beaches.
(03:38):
There are long beaches. The beach in our house is over
20 kilometers long. There is diversity in this
coastline that is going to be beautiful all the time wherever
you go. Yeah, and there's also a slower
pace of life with people moving at their own speed, which is
really a big deal with regards to your experience of day-to-day
(04:00):
life and what it is that you're taking out of the joys of
living. And the people are some of the
nicest and most incredible people you'll ever meet around
the whole world. That's not to say they aren't
amazing people in other places, but the concentration of high
quality, humble, kind, honest people in Portugal is
(04:21):
phenomenal. And I think the other thing that
really puts us in play is the growing expat community.
The number of new people arriving on a daily basis is
really a huge thing that's changing the landscape of the
country and it's a place where you can find a lot of support
because it's people who might beexactly like you.
(04:44):
So now we'll move on to what we put in the category of the bad.
So the first is that you need tolearn the language and it's
going to be harder than you think it is.
I think for people like me who spoke Spanish before or have
some kind of a background in another language, you assume
that you're going to be having amuch easier time learning a
(05:08):
language that's so similar, right?
And I think Spanish and Portuguese written are very
similar. Spoken are very different.
And I have this problem all the time where it's really easy for
me to read things in Portuguese and then I hear someone say
something and I'm like, whoa, I am lost.
And you really have to put the work in.
(05:28):
No, it's not an easy language. You can actually learn it, and
it's an important thing to learnso that you can function fully
in society. But it's not an easy language to
learn and be prepared to learn. Regardless of whatever Romance
background you might have in terms of language, you're going
to need to come here and adapt and adjust especially to maybe
(05:51):
more local Portuguese people whospeak really fast and understand
that whenever you interact with the Portuguese bureaucratic
system or any kind of organization, you're probably
going to need to have some levelof Portuguese to make it work.
Just something important to remember for learning
Portuguese. Then our next under the bad, we
(06:13):
have that prices have gone up a lot and what might be getting
sold to you as so cheap and you read these articles of like you
can retire in Portugal for $1000a month.
It's just not true anymore and the prices have gone up and it's
not so cheap. So you really need to be sure
that you know how much money it's things are going to cost
(06:36):
before you arrive. And then we moved to the ugly,
and the ugly is going to be bureaucracy and waiting longer
than you could ever imagine for every single thing that you need
to do in your life. It's just part of the experience
(06:56):
here. There is no way of you living a
normal life without accepting the fact that things are going
to take longer for you to get anything done.
And until you accept that fact, you are constantly going to be
on the edge. So please prepare yourself for
that. Ask yourself the question, am I
capable of living in a country where things take longer than
(07:19):
they should? As a rule, the exception does
happen where something accidentally might happen
quickly, but don't come here expecting things to move
quickly. Yeah, and whatever timeline that
you might have, Portugal will laugh in the face of your
timeline. If you think that you're going
to be at this place within a year, you're not.
You're just not like if things are going to take longer than
(07:41):
than you think that they're going to take.
So now we've got a little bit ofa list of things for you.
Don't come to Portugal unless, and this is kind of fun to come
up with this list and also I hope that it comes across from a
place of love because that's really where it started from.
(08:02):
We love Portugal, we love livingin Portugal, we love Portuguese
people and Portuguese culture, and we want to make sure that
the people who are coming in canshare in that love to not change
the place into what they want itto be, but to make the place
better by adding themselves to what already is.
(08:25):
It's true, you know this, this is a beautiful, beautiful place
with amazing people, incredible opportunities for people safety,
so many amazing things about Portugal.
And it's important though, to ask these questions before you
commit yourself to a new life. And that's really where we're.
So in terms of not coming to Portugal, unless what are we
(08:46):
going to start off with this? So what are the things don't
come to Portugal unless the 1st is?
Don't come to Portugal unless you're willing to learn the
language. We talked about this a bit
before. You don't have to speak
Portuguese to survive, But should you speak Portuguese if
you plan to live in Portugal? Yes.
Yeah, you really have to. I know a lot of people in Lisbon
(09:09):
especially are able to navigate quite normal lives without
speaking the language. But you're not actually able to
integrate into society. You're not really able to
experience what this country is truly about or make any real
connections without the language.
And I think a lot of people findthemselves in a situation where
(09:29):
they've spent considerable time here and they're living
day-to-day lives, but they feel very distant from their
neighbors and from their community and not being able to
connect to people who are off this place.
And that's because they're not able to speak the language.
And I would say it goes such a long way, even just making the
effort, because I don't think anyone's got the expectation
(09:53):
that you're going to start belting up perfect Portuguese.
I think being able to start small and basic conversations
with people really opens up so many doors to relationships and
friendships, and having just those few words which will
eventually turn into more words is such a big deal to people who
are here sharing the same space as you.
(10:15):
Yeah. I don't think it's about being
fluent in in any way. I think it's about putting
effort in and showing that you actually are willing to to try a
little bit. I think so many people from
Portugal have such a big turn around with regards to how they
view you once they see you try to speak Portuguese.
And I think that's such a nice way of starting a relationship
(10:38):
with someone where they respect you for trying to put yourself
in their shoes and trying to meet them in their place.
So the next thing, don't come toPortugal unless you're OK with
waiting. Yeah, so waiting at the post
office for two hours, waiting ata restaurant for 45 minutes
(11:00):
after you asked for the bill andyou just want to pay, waiting
for three years to renew a visa.This is the land of multi hour
waits. These are lovers of take a
number. And generally we said people are
not in a rush, which is kind of nice sometimes.
And people are not in a rush, which means if you are in a rush
(11:22):
you are going to hate your life here so much.
Yeah, I think it's also more than the third, Liz.
It's not just a case of saying I'm able to wait.
Do I have that level of patience?
It's accepting the fact that you're going to need to wait
even when you don't want to. Exactly.
So you can come here being an absolutely awesome person with
(11:43):
regards to being patient and calm, but you'll go very far
with that attitude because that's how society is here.
But one day you're going to needto get to the train station in
10 minutes, and you'll be standing at the supermarket
waiting to check out, and there is going to be an old lady who's
going to start a very long conversation with the checkout
(12:05):
worker. And that's what's going to stop
you from getting onto that train.
And at that moment is where you realize that how you feel about
patience and how you feel about calmness is going to be tested
to the extreme. So it's just something for you
to know about. And I think exactly what Ryan
said, like it's the things that you don't expect, it's the
(12:27):
waiting that you didn't think you would have to wait for.
And I think this comes up so often, it's one of the most
difficult parts for me about Portuguese life because I, I
expect the supermarket to have aconversation and I don't mind if
the person in front of me is having a long conversation at
(12:47):
checkout. And I honestly think it's kind
of sweet that they are friends and, and that's cool.
When I'm picking up a package atthe post office and I'm there
for three hours, I am like melting and filling with fury
and like, I really struggle. And I think you just don't
(13:09):
expect picking up a package to take 3 hours.
It just wasn't ever in what I thought was possible.
So it's these moments that I think really test you where
you're going to do something that you think should be really
simple and it's not. And I think it's an important
thing for people to ask themselves before they arrive
(13:31):
because there's a lot that needsto get done before you get
cracking with your Portuguese life, especially on the
bureaucratic front. So Next up, don't come to
Portugal unless you have realistic expectations on the
cost of living. Have you found an article from
2019 talking about $3 lunch specials and rent under 500
bucks a month? That is not true.
(13:53):
Today, rent in Lisbon is averaging around 1500 bucks a
month. That is a massive difference
from what you might have read, from what you might have seen,
from what you might have been told.
And if you come in thinking, I'mjust going to find this gorgeous
apartment with sea views, 500 bucks a month, you're not going
to find it. And you're going to be really
(14:14):
upset when you can't find it. And you're going to burn through
money on places that you're spending for a night at a time
or a week at a time. You're going to be spending two
grand to rent something for a month while you're trying to
find this perfect place that no one can find any more because it
just doesn't exist. And I think we see so many,
(14:35):
especially retired Americans coming here with this list of
prices that they got from someone pre COVID and it's just
not true. Yeah.
I think the other thing that I need to throw in there is maybe
a different perspective on it list, and that is to say that
there are cheaper places in Portugal that you can go and
(14:56):
stay where rent is cheaper, foodis cheaper, but it's nowhere
near related to the social mediaand news material that you have
read. That's true coming up into this
place. So if you want a place where
you're going to spend 500 bucks a month on rent, you're going to
be staying very far away from the major cities and you're
(15:18):
going to be living a very different life.
And if you're OK with that, thenthat's fine.
But then again, we also come back to the idea of saying how
good is your Portuguese? Because you're going to need to
have really good Portuguese because you'll be living in a
place where fewer people speak English so that you can have
that cheaper lifestyle. And you're going to be
sacrificing lots of other thingsas well, right?
You're going to be living in a really rural environment.
(15:40):
You're going to be quite far from the beaches.
You're going to be quite isolated in terms of just
people. And maybe that's what you want,
and there's nothing wrong with that.
But be prepared for that. Don't come here thinking you're
going to stay in the center of Lisbon or Porto, living the high
life, getting the very best restaurants, the best tourist
attractions without needing to pay top dollar for it.
(16:03):
And just one more note on cost of living.
Please please please please, please please do not be that
person who goes around loudly shouting about how cheap
everything is. Wow, only $5 for a beer?
That's nothing, guys. Read the room.
It's double the price that it was just a few years ago, and
(16:23):
local salaries have not changed.So that $5 beer is actually
really expensive here now. And talking about how cheap you
think everything is is truly just rubbing it in that you're
rich and you're privileged and you probably think that you're
better than all the people who are from here.
OK, so the next one, don't come to Portugal unless you actually
(16:47):
want to hang out with Portuguesepeople.
Portuguese people are some of the nicest people that you're
ever going to meet anywhere in the world.
We've talked about it before saying Portuguese people have
this perspective and this approach of I'm going to do this
because I would expect other people to do it for me, or I'm
(17:07):
going to be kind because I see kindness in others.
And it's such a kind and sweet way of looking at the world.
And they are willing to share that perspective with you in
terms of how they treat you, because that's just who they
are. And I think that if you arrive
here and you hide yourself from that part of society, you're
(17:29):
really doing yourself a major disservice from being able to
grow and learn, certainly, but also not being able to be a part
of the world that you're living in.
Because the biggest part of thatis comprised of people who are
from this country. So take the time to learn about
Portuguese culture and why Portuguese people do things the
(17:50):
way that they do them and who they really, really are and how
they really feel about things, because it's something that will
really change the way that you understand the society.
And I think that being able to accept this country for being
what it is, rather than it not being what you're about, is a
(18:10):
very dangerous game to play. Because what it does is it
starts pushing you towards having only expat friends, which
is such a limited way of living because everyone that is
surrounding you is basically an echo Chamber of how you feel and
what you think. And I've seen so many people
disappear into the woodwork because they're not a part of
(18:34):
what's going on in town. They're not able to go to
community events, they're not able to go into Portuguese
people's special celebrations and events because they don't
have any Portuguese friends. So make the effort to get to
know Portuguese people. They're incredible human beings.
And I think that being open to that is going to take you a very
(18:56):
long way all. Right.
Next up, it's kind of on the same tone, but don't come to
Portugal unless you are willing to be quiet most of the time to
show respect. Portuguese people are not loud.
They're not getting together andshouting and laughing and
carrying on in public. When you do that, everyone hates
(19:18):
you and I, I've seen so many Americans coming here and as
soon as you enter a restaurant, you're like, oh, that table's
American. Because they are being so loud.
They're not looking around them at all.
Everyone is staring at them. Everyone is upset that they're
there. They're making the experience
worse for everyone around them. I think another great example is
(19:39):
tantrums for children. We have lived in Portugal for
almost 7 years and I have seen 2tantrums held by children in
public in those seven years. Both of them were British
children with British parents. I've never once seen a
Portuguese child shouting and screaming and kicking their feet
(20:02):
and crying loudly and just goingon in public.
That just doesn't happen. As soon as it starts, they're
just whisked away and taken out of public because everyone knows
that public space. Is for peace public spaces, for
quiet public spaces to be enjoyed by everyone.
(20:23):
And whatever I'm doing can't take precedence over whatever
you're doing. Yeah, I think even on a
practical basis, so many times you go to a restaurant and
you're sitting at the restaurantand there's this low rumble of
people who are there, even if it's a full restaurant.
And it's pretty incredible because everyone's able to talk
to each other and hear each other.
(20:44):
And then the second you realize that there's a foreigner in the
crowd, it's because you can actually hear their
conversation. You can.
You can hear people gasping and shouting and talking about their
day. And invariably, it's not a
Portuguese person. Please observe and enjoy the
silence. It's good for you.
It means that everyone is enjoying themselves.
(21:06):
And as soon as you're in a private space, be as loud as you
want to be, right? Like there's nothing stopping
you from being loud at a party in your house or a friend's
house in different spaces that are yours.
Go wild. But when you're in public, I
think it's really such an important part of Portuguese
culture to be respectful and to show that respect.
(21:29):
And if you're not willing to do that and you think that you can
be as loud as you want to be wherever you want to be,
honestly just don't come to Portugal.
But sometimes, even when we're out, we have to be very careful
because sometimes as a South African, we are loud people.
And I do get carried away sometimes and I need to think,
oh, you know, let me calm down alittle bit.
(21:50):
And even with Liz, sometimes I remind her please use the inside
voice. It's true.
Like, honestly, Ryan has to remind me of that pretty
regularly. Still not all the time, but at
least like once a month, I wouldsay he'll remind me to use my
inside voice. And this is the thing, you know,
you're never going to be perfect, but putting that effort
in and making sure that when someone does say like, oh,
(22:11):
you're getting a bit loud there.It's like, oh OK, let me course
correct. Yes, because we're not from this
culture, we're not from this society, so we aren't naturally
attuned to this. So we need to adapt and we need
to learn so that we can be part of this group.
Otherwise we're going to be at restaurants making a loud noise
and be hated by our neighbors. I don't want that, you know, and
(22:32):
I don't want that for anyone who's wanting to come here
either. All right, Next up, don't come
to Portugal unless your salary expectations are low.
If you have a remote job or another source of income, this
doesn't apply to you. But if you're looking to start a
business or get a job here, you need to seriously lower your
salary expectations. The average salary is only about
(22:54):
€1000 a month. And anyone who thinks, oh, I'm
going to come, I'm going to start a restaurant, I'm going to
start cafe, I'm going to start to whatever, and I'm going to be
making 50 grand a year, 100 grand a year.
You're probably just not. And I think knowing that the
(23:14):
salaries are going to be lower really helps you with your
budget expectations as well. And if you do make more money,
great. And if you're able to get a job
that has a higher salary, amazing.
But if your expectation is high and you can't meet that
expectation, you are in real financial trouble.
If your expectation is low and you go higher than that, it's
(23:36):
great. You're going to need to work
really hard to make a very fair salary here, which doesn't
really compare very well to other European countries.
It's something to know. This is not the place to come.
And if you're expecting extremely high salaries, it's
just a different society, a different group of people.
(23:57):
So don't put yourself in a situation where you're over
committing in a month to month basis to bills that you might
not be able to pay because the salary is naturally low.
OK, Next up. This is a bit of a controversial
one, but don't come to Portugal unless you have a financial
pathway to go back to your country if it doesn't work out.
(24:18):
Oh, this is a this is a tricky one because Liz and I have a
little bit of a differing view on this because of who we are as
people. Yeah, it's true.
And I think this is one that I've just seen so many times
that so many people come here, they sell everything that they
had in their home country. They get rid of everything.
(24:39):
They've got exactly what they'vebudgeted as enough money to live
in Portugal for X amount of years until they think that
they're going to die and they hate it.
And now they are stuck or some other financial burden comes up,
an emergency or something like that, and they just don't have
(25:02):
the budget for it. And now they're here or there's
a family emergency. They need to go back.
They can't afford the flights back and forth.
And there's so many reasons for someone who moves to Portugal to
not live in Portugal forever. We talked about ex pets versus
immigrants of this word of forever.
And how do you decide last week?And most people don't know what
(25:26):
they're going to be doing forever.
Even if you think it and plan itand want it and dream it and
everything, life happens. And I think that anyone who's
coming here of I have exactly this much money and I'm going to
make it work with exactly this much money, and all of my
bridges are burned, my financialbridges, other bridges, and
(25:48):
everything is gone and I've got nothing anywhere else anymore
and I have to make this work. I think those people are going
to really, really struggle in Portugal.
And I do have so much sympathy for those people because I don't
think anyone does it on purpose,but it is something to remember
(26:09):
because you don't know what the future is.
Like Liz is saying, it might noteven necessarily be a case of
something external changing up how you feel about the country
or what your commitment might be.
It really might be something as simple as realizing that you
feel lonely and you miss your old life because you might need
(26:31):
to make some very drastic decisions to go back to
something similar to your old life.
Bearing in mind that it won't beanything similar to your old
life because you have got no more money because you spent it
all coming here. And you've got no stuff because
your house that you had, your car that you had, your
belongings that you had like everything is gone and replacing
(26:52):
all of that stuff, you're not going to be able to do that at
the price that you sold it for. Because you can end up being
stuck in between, regardless of whether or not you stay in
Portugal or whether or not you go back to your home country.
You're just not going to have either or about that carefully.
Because we've actually seen thatplay out with a lot of people
who have come. And remember, that group of
(27:13):
people are probably going to be the lowest number of people who
are going to share this experience with anyone.
Because if you struggle and aren't able to integrate and
start this new life, I wouldn't blame you for not sharing that
situation with other people. It might be kind of overwhelming
and make you feel embarrassed orshy or whatever it might be.
(27:37):
And they're not going to tell you about needing to consider
the idea of what might happen ifthis doesn't work out and you've
spent all of your money making this happen.
But like I said when we started this particular point, this and
I have a different perspective. If you're coming from a country
where you're struggling to make ends meet, where you might be
(27:57):
facing homelessness, you might be facing complete joblessness
and financial disaster, and you feel like you need to roll the
dice by coming to Portugal to try and make something happen
and make something work, do it. It's a different set of dice.
Right. Like it's a different role that
you're having because I think that the people who are coming
from America and the UK and Australia who are selling
(28:21):
everything and and gambling and rolling these dice on Portugal,
it's a different set of dice because the people who I'm
talking. About are coming here and are
going to be happy with the €1000a month average salary.
It's going to be enough to make sure that there's food on the
table, that there's a roof over their head and they were clothes
to wear, there's access to adequate healthcare, their
(28:42):
children can go to school. If that's what it is that you
need, Portugal can offer that toyou if if it does work out in
many different areas that that you need it to work out in.
But I would say that for those people running the dice and
paying your last penny to get here, it might be worth it
because you're in a different boat to the people who are here
(29:07):
looking for prosperity. Yeah, it's true.
It's true. And I think I agree with Ryan on
this, right? I think that it's not possible
for everyone to be able to have financial security, to have this
pathway back if it doesn't work out.
But if it is possible for you, do your best to have one.
(29:27):
All right, Next up, don't come to Portugal unless you are ready
to live without heat or air conditioning.
This is one that I feel like people don't think about and
don't talk about. Can you find these amenities?
Yes. Are they common?
No. Do we have friends who have paid
a lot of money to get heat and air conditioning in their homes?
(29:49):
We do, but we don't have either 1.
So in the summer we take a lot of cold showers.
In the winter, we wear a lot of layers indoors.
I'm always in a beanie in the winter.
I'm often wearing gloves in the winter inside of our house.
It's actually colder in your house in the winter than it is
outside because the sun will be shining and it'll be quite nice.
(30:12):
But then you go in your house and you're just going to be
very, very cold. And I think that this really
shocks a lot of foreigners who come.
It's kind of. Sort of regressive for a lot of
people after having moved to a place that they hoped would be
better than where they were from.
I think I really struggle more with the heat because I think
(30:34):
it's harder to cool yourself down than it is to warm yourself
up. So like during winter I think we
can throw on a bunch of hoodies and goats and beanies and be
generally fine. Whereas during the summer when
we have these terrible heat waves which are 40° plus, it's a
different game because you are just going to lie there on the
ground feeling hot. So we have a portable air
(30:55):
conditioner which we never use because the price of electricity
is very high, so expensive. So if you do.
Want an air conditioner or a heater?
You can have it. There are many companies who do
the installations and it is becoming more common.
But you are going to pay a pretty penny for it.
So like hundreds per month? Hundreds per month.
(31:17):
And it might be worth it for you.
I don't want to discourage anyone from that, but bear in
mind that you're going to be paying serious money for that,
and most people who live in Portugal aren't willing or able
to pay for that. Yeah, I'm definitely not
willing. Or able to pay for it.
I think I'm fine in the summer to take cold showers.
(31:38):
I go to the gym, I swim in the pool, I swim in the ocean.
Sometimes I am willing to moderate my heat like that.
And in the winter, that's, that's the harder one for me.
But I still think that we, we huddle together in the second
bedroom, which is the smallest room in the house.
And we do have like a tiny little electric heater that
(32:00):
doesn't use too much electricity.
And I think for me that's, that's the harder one.
No, that's the only way. To survive, I don't think that
you can get through some of these winters and summers
without some help, but you are paying for it.
So learn how to swim very well or bias or some blankets.
That's the best way to deal withit.
OK, Next up. Ryan, don't come to Portugal
(32:24):
unless you are confident in driving in dangerous conditions.
This one is a Ryan rant I think this might be.
One of the reasons why I was so excited to start this podcast,
just so that I could have a platform to share how I feel
about this particular topic. I love Portugal with all of my
heart. I think it's one of the most
(32:44):
incredible places that I've everhad the opportunity to visit,
let alone have the fortune to live here.
But as beautiful and as wonderful as all the people of
Portugal are and they are, the second you put them behind the
wheel of a car, they become exactly the opposite.
They are the craziest, most aggressive, inconsiderate and
(33:09):
unkind drivers. I would say at the very least in
mainland Europe. I don't want to extend it to
central parts of Africa and certain parts of South Asia
because it's pretty wild there too.
But putting a Portuguese person behind the wheel of a car is an
exercise in understanding the two extremes of humanity.
(33:34):
They drive like they discovered cars for the first time
yesterday and they are going to use them as hard as they
possibly can. They are weapons.
They are rocket ships to go to the moon at the faster speed
that they can go. The road signs are not even
(33:55):
guides. They're an inconvenience.
They're not even suggestions. It's.
Not something that. Anyone is interested in, they
are focused on getting to where they want to get to as quickly
as they possibly can, regardlessof anyone else.
And when they arrive, they are going to move slowly in whatever
it is that they're doing, but they are going to get there as
quickly as they possibly can. They're going to park, right?
(34:18):
And they will park. Anywhere at any point in time,
they will stop on a highway and reverse to look at what they
might have missed. They will stop in the middle of
a residential road to speak to their uncle's sister's father's
brother and have a 5 minute conversation while 40 cars pile
(34:39):
up behind them waiting for the conversation to end.
God knows what happens at traffic circles at roundabouts.
Only God knows because certainlyno one in Portugal does.
It is just carnage going around a traffic circle because no one
(35:00):
knows the rule. And even if they did, it
wouldn't matter. It goes further because of the
police aren't really interested in understanding what it is
that's going on. So when a car cruises past you
at 170 kilometers an hour in 100kilometer an hour zone, the
police won't care because they're not even there.
(35:22):
We have lived here for seven years.
Over 7 years I've come to learn that Portugal has the highest
per person wine consumption in the world and also the.
Highest per capita Rd. deaths inEurope In Europe?
And in the world, these are big numbers, right?
And in all of that time, I have never had a breathalyzer other
(35:47):
than the one time where a Portuguese lady T boned me at an
intersection because she didn't stop at a stop sign.
So there is absolutely shocking behavior on the roads here.
You will be fine. You will drive, but you will be
shown the full shining face of that risk every time you jump
(36:09):
into your car. And you need to know about this
because as someone who suffers from anxiety, it's a hell of a
way to live. And when you're on the road and
you're driving and you need to deal with these kinds of issues,
you really need to be able to rely on some type of internal
resilience and coping mechanism to be able to survive with it.
(36:31):
Otherwise it becomes a huge issue.
We have a number of friends who no longer drive or who work
really hard to not drive becauseof the conditions here.
And it's not going to change anytime soon.
More and more people, in fact, are being given greater access
to incredibly powerful and fast cars and they're using them.
And if you come here, please know that this is something you
(36:54):
need to be aware of. People don't talk about it, but
it's there. Rent over.
All right. Well, on that note, Next up is
don't come to Portugal unless you know that you're not better
than anyone else or deserving ofspecial treatment because of
where you're from or how much money you have.
(37:17):
We have met so many people like this.
They come here, they're on theirhigh horse.
They talk about how great they are, how much better they are,
how amazing everything is for them.
And then they hate it here because no one is going to be
rolling out a red carpet for you.
No one is going to be treating you different at the restaurant
because you're American or because you tipped well last
(37:39):
time that it's not what's ever going to happen for you.
And if you think that you just being here deserves people to
bow down to you and think thank you for coming and for investing
in this country and wow, you're so amazing because you have
(38:00):
blessed us with your presence. Really.
Don't come. Yeah, this is a place.
That humbles people quite quickly because the place isn't
that adaptive to foreign influence.
So one of the stories that a good Portuguese friend of ours
told us is that Portuguese people won't be told what to do,
(38:23):
but they also won't tell themselves what to do.
So they're not interested in being influenced by anything
other than what it is that they want to do.
It's like a very like deep Portuguese core belief.
And that becomes so much more apparent in the way that people
do things here by not listening to how things are supposed to be
(38:44):
based on what your expectations are.
And so a lot of people find themselves in situations where
they expect to be treated like aspecial boy or girl, but they're
not because they aren't special.And I'm a big fan of that
because I think it draws people together and it avoids, to at
least a certain extent, major unequal treatment and belief in
(39:07):
people being better than others.So big fan of that.
Just be aware. Me too.
I think I'm a. Big fan of it and you really see
it in places like the service industry where you go to a place
like America and you see how patrons treat waitstaff.
A lot of the time is quite negative, how someone is
treating the cleaner, how someone is treating people that
(39:29):
they believe have jobs that are quote below them.
And in Portugal I really don't see that, which I'm so grateful
for. It means that your waitress is
just as valid and valuable as you are.
The person who's cleaning the gym gets a good morning and a
good afternoon and is treated fully equally to everyone who's
(39:52):
spending money to be at the gym.And I think that this is so
wonderful that we don't have these striations in in class.
But it also means that you're not going to benefit from being
treated better than anyone else.And in order to achieve that
equality, it means that you're not going to get your special
treatment. All right, last on our list,
(40:14):
Don't come to Portugal unless you embrace change.
And look, I think this is for almost anywhere.
If you're going to be moving to a different country, if you're
going to be moving even to a different state or province or
city within your own country, you need to expect change.
But in Portugal, we've seen so much change just in the few
(40:35):
years that we've been here that I feel like we're giving this
list now and half of it might change next year.
Expect the visa rules to change,expect the prices to change.
Expect your personal struggles to change.
I think that if you go there with this very defined set of
expectations of what life is going to be like, you are never
(40:57):
going to have any peace. Yeah, this is a.
Very fast changing environment for lots of different reasons
because the number of people whoare coming here and the external
factors of economics and politics and just general life
is making sure that this place is not what it used to be on a
(41:19):
day-to-day basis. You can see it and Liz is 100%
right in saying that you need tobe able to deal with change here
because it's not necessarily small change that's going to
affect you. The price of housing doubled in
a very short period of time while we've been here and that's
a big deal because that means you can live somewhere or you
(41:40):
can't live somewhere. We've seen so many people who
have had notice put in from the landlords saying that renters
increased by 30%, forty percent,50% just on one particular day.
And they need to then figure outsome way of finding a place to
live or negotiating or deciding what their future holds.
(42:01):
So when you come here, don't expect it to be as sure as it's
sometimes being sold to a lot ofpeople because I think I've got
a lot of criticism honestly, andmaybe it's a good time for me to
bring this up. I have a lot of criticism to a
lot of online creators about what Portugal is about because
(42:21):
the picture that's painted is very one sided.
It's very much geared towards getting views, getting clicks,
getting likes, and describing this place as being something
that it is, but not hearing the full picture of what it really
is. And I think that a lot of people
(42:42):
sign up for what it is they've been told this place is like,
rather than what it actually is like.
And then when they arrive and they haven't listened to an
amazing list like this, they're shocked and surprised at what it
actually is. And they find themselves caught
off guard in terms of making a life here, in terms of accepting
(43:02):
what this place is really like, adapting themselves, changing
who they are so that they can fit in, and then struggle.
There's so many people who are here who have signed up for
something that they didn't know they were signing up for and are
floundering a little bit. And I have all the empathy and
sympathy for them in the world because it's not easy.
(43:24):
But there is that opportunity for you to do the research
before you arrive to at least minimize the possibility of
finding yourself in the situation.
And please don't take any kind of real advice from someone
who's selling you some kind of dream about Portugal.
It's a beautiful place. It's a wonderful place.
(43:45):
You can totally make it your home.
But it's not perfect and it's not easy.
Yeah, I think. That's such a good point.
And kind of going back to this embracing of change, our list is
ours. It's personal to us.
And you might find completely different things.
You might disagree on half of these points, and they just
(44:05):
might not apply to you. But knowing that you're going to
come to a place and be ready to embrace that change is so
important to your ability to enjoy living there.
Yeah. And share with us what?
It is that you've gone through that's been expected would tell
us what you think is something people need to know before they
(44:26):
move here because it's somethingthat can help someone's life
massively in what it is that they're going through and what
it is that they should be expecting for themselves and
their families going forward. And we'd love to hear that.
All right, so that's our wrap. Up on don't come to Portugal
unless and now we are ready for our would you rather.
(44:46):
So in this segment, we choose two countries that one or both
of us have been to and we go through a series of questions of
would you rather do this in country A or in country B.
So this week we are talking about two countries that Ryan
and I have discussed potentiallyliving in.
Because we currently live in Portugal, we obviously don't
(45:09):
live in either of these, but they were big discussions.
So I think it'll be a good wouldyou rather Slovenia versus
Ireland? Are you ready?
I am really these are. Two of my favorite places in the
world. So I'm psyched for this.
All right. Would you rather eat?
A pizza in Slovenia or in Ireland?
Slovenia It's. Easy, it borders Italy and there
(45:32):
must be one or two fantastic Italian people who have at least
taken a day trip and I'm going to ask them to make a pizza for
me. Where would you choose?
Same I think that. The food in Slovenia is such a
draw for Slovenia that you've got Balkan food, you've got
Italian food, you've got Austrian food, you've got all
kinds of food and everything is fresh, everything is local.
(45:57):
The first Spar supermarket that we went to in Slovenia, which
Spar is like a giant international chain and it was a
big supermarket, I went to buy some eggs and some bread and a
couple of small things. The egg section had the names of
the chickens that the eggs came from that day, the freshest.
(46:19):
Eggs we've ever had in Europe, Ihave never tasted.
An egg that was from that day, it was really, it was
incredible. And it's not just the eggs.
I feel like so many things in Slovenia that we ate were just
like, this is this has to be fresh from today.
(46:41):
Like, there's no way that this could have been picked yesterday
even. Yeah, Slovenia has.
Really. Worked out how to identify the
most important things in terms of freshness and quality.
People, they really eat well. Things are really done in a nice
way in most cases. They I, I agree.
I think Slovenia's on another level with that.
(47:02):
All right. Next up, would you?
Rather go for a hike in Ireland or in Slovenia.
Oh, that's. Hard.
That's a really. Good question.
Because Slovenia is one of the most stunning places in the
world. Genuinely not any kind of over
exaggeration. I'm not waxing lyrical about it,
it's just that gorgeous. The problem is that there's so
(47:26):
many hills and mountains, and I hate hills and mountains, so I
would probably still do the hike.
In Slovenia, we did the hike up the mountain next to Lake Blade
and that really that really pushed me to my limits.
But as it is with any really good hike, it really was worth
(47:47):
it at the end for that view downinto the lake.
And with Ireland, I feel like I could probably hike further and
longer because, yeah, because it's flatter and I think the
weather there is also more favorable to long distance
walking. So yeah, I would choose
Slovenia, but not, not ignoring the potential for Ireland.
(48:13):
Have a really good walk you. Yeah, I think that Ireland has.
A ton of potential for amazing long walks.
It's a big part of why I think Iwould enjoy spending a lot of
time there because the walks in the nature are so great.
But Ryan is not a fan of hills and mountain hiking.
I am a huge fan of hills and mountain hiking and I love to
(48:34):
climb a mountain. I would climb mountains all the
time if I could, and I would be absolutely thrilled to hike some
mountains in Slovenia. Very cool.
Right, Next up, would you rather?
Ask for directions in Ireland orin Slovenia.
Oh, that's actually. A really good question because
both sets of people from those countries are both awesome.
(48:57):
Such nice people. But I would go towards more
Irish because I think making friends with Irish people is a
lot easier. I think Slovenian people are a
little bit more guarded when it comes to meeting new people and
starting conversations. They're really friendly, they're
really nice, but they aren't really sort of open to laughing
(49:19):
and joking and becoming besties,as opposed to in Ireland where I
found it really easy to get intoa full on conversation and get
to know someone of a very chanceencounter.
So I'd choose Ireland. What would you choose?
Yeah, I think it would be such adifferent.
Experience, right? Because I feel like in Slovenia
someone would take your request so seriously and they would make
(49:39):
sure that you knew exactly whereyou had to go.
They would be able to speak like12 languages because it seems
like everyone there speaks like 12 languages.
So English wouldn't be an issue at all and they would take it
seriously. They would they would worry
about you getting there properlyand they would make sure or that
you were going to arrive safely in your destination versus
Ireland. I think you're going to have a
(49:59):
laugh. I think you're going to joke
around. They might give you the wrong
directions at 1st and then and be able to laugh at you a little
bit and strike up a conversationthat might lead to a friendship.
So I'm going to also go with thepossibility of friendship and
and Ireland there, even though Ithink that Slovenia you would
(50:20):
get phenomenal directions. Next up would.
You rather visit for a long weekend in Ireland or in
Slovenia? That's a really.
Good question. I'm actually not too sure.
I think I would probably go to Ireland for a long weekend
because you can do a lot in Ireland in a long weekend.
(50:45):
It's not such a big country. You can drive very far neither
Slovenia. It's true, but I.
Think that if you find somethingthat you really like in
Slovenia, it might be a good place to like explore or even do
repeated things. So in Bled, that's a tiny little
town and you could go to Bled and you could spend like 4 days
(51:05):
there and you could hike four different mountains in four
days. And that's a tiny little spot.
And I think in Ireland you can go to like 7 different little
towns over the course of four days and see quite a lot.
We saw the Blondie Stone, we sawKilkenny, we saw Cork.
We saw so many places in such a short period of time.
(51:28):
And I think that's one of the nice things about Ireland, being
able to experience so much of the country in a very short
period of time. So yeah, I would choose Ireland,
not in a very convincing way, but I think regardless of what
you choose, I think you're goingto come out nicely.
What would you choose between the two?
Yeah. So I think.
I'm actually because I love bothplaces so much.
(51:48):
They are both small and easy to see a lot in a short period of
time. I'm going on flights and it's
easier to fly in to Ireland. With Ryanair, you've got cheap
flights from everywhere around Europe versus Slovenia.
It is a smaller airport. It is harder to get to.
I feel like a long weekend in Ireland.
(52:08):
You can get there so cheaply andthen enjoy, get there back.
It'll be a direct flight. It'll be really simple versus I
think there needs a little bit more work that goes into getting
to Slovenia. So I'm choosing Ireland for
because you get more time. In Ireland, I think so.
OK. OK, OK.
All right, Next up. Would you rather do a road trip
(52:30):
in Ireland or in Slovenia? So I think I.
Would choose Ireland with this because there's so many little
towns which are so gorgeous and pretty.
And I also really like the in between stuff, you know, the
rural side of things where there's sheep and livestock and
just expanses of the ocean and green grass.
(52:55):
And I think just spending a lot of time in the car looking at
that is a great road trip for me.
Whereas I think in Slovenia you're going to see some
incredible mountains and incredible landscape as well,
but it's also really small. So I reckon you could get
through Slovenia in a day, whichisn't really that much of A road
(53:16):
trip. So that would really be why I
would choose Ireland. It's not a very convincing
argument, but it is mine. But Slovenia is surrounded.
By everything else that you wanta road trip through, yeah, but
you're not. That's not.
Slovenia. That's the Balkans, that's
Italy, that's Austria, Yeah. You just have to choose the
country and that's so I don't think you can get through.
(53:38):
Slovenia in a day for sure. I think we're talking more like
a couple of weeks to really see things properly because I think
there's so many small places that we haven't been to and we
only went to. Ljubljana.
And to Bled and to a couple of smaller places in between.
But I do think that in a Slovenia road trip, you would be
(53:59):
able to see so many of those tiny places.
However, I think Ireland was made for the road trip.
And I think that the tiny town that has one little pub and you
walk into that one little pub and everyone is super friendly
and Ryan gets to watch his rugbyand we eat our fish and chips
(54:20):
and it's just easy and lovely and you laugh a lot.
And I think it's so nice to be able to explore the smaller
places that way. So I do, I do agree.
I think I'm going to go Ireland on this one too.
You went through. So much to get to the same
(54:40):
answer as me, but it's hard because I.
Really love both countries so much.
This is going to be the most difficult one of all.
Would you rather buy a house in Ireland or in Slovenia?
I hate the fact that you're. Asking me this question because
it is such a good one and I don't know if I'm not going to
have major regrets regardless ofwhich one I choose.
(55:02):
I think I'm going to say Irelandonly for the fact that Ireland
has a lot of stuff in its culture and its way of life,
which is similar in certain waysto how I lived in South Africa.
I'm also a big fan of being ableto speak English easily with
most people in any particular place.
(55:24):
It just makes life a lot easier for me and it might be really a
small set of factors that I'm using to make quite a big
decision, but I think that thosethings are important enough to
me to inform the decision of wanting to buy a house in
Ireland as opposed to Slovenia. Which one would you choose?
(55:47):
You know it's. Such a difficult question for me
because I really feel like both have so much to offer.
I think like you're saying, the daily life in Ireland would be
really wonderful. Like we could get a house in a
little small town, we could finda community, we could be
regulars at some restaurants anda pub, and we could have our our
(56:09):
things and our friends and all of this.
I think in Slovenia, you are so close to nature.
I would go hiking every single day.
I would have this amazing food that I could probably grow
myself. And you're so close to so many
other countries where you're able to spend time in Croatia
and Italy and Austria and Serbiaand Montenegro.
(56:31):
And like all of these places would be so easy to get.
To like really? I think this is like such a such
a big one for me, but I think I'm going to go Slovenia.
That's not a bad. Call, I don't think that Ireland
is that far removed from Slovenia.
So Slovenia is a really beautiful and stunning place and
(56:56):
living there in your own little house is not a bad call.
But then I think about friends. That I know I would like make
more friends in Ireland then I probably would make in Slovenia.
And how important is that? And community and yes, they all
speak many languages and I'd be able to get by in English.
But oh, it really it's, it's a tough one.
We would like to know what you guys think too.
(57:18):
Like have you been to Slovenia? Do you love Slovenia as much as
we love Slovenia? What do you think?
Where would you want to live? I'd love to know what other
people. Think because these are such
special places and there's so many interesting ways of looking
at it, I'd love to know what they think.
Well guys, thank you so much forsharing this time with us.
It's been really good to talk about what you should know
(57:40):
before you move to Portugal thisweek and if you have any
thoughts or feelings or observations from anything that
we've talked about, please let us know.
We really are interested to hearwhat it is that you've
experienced and what you think. You can contact us on our
Instagram, which is at Expats Listen or on
(58:00):
expatslisten@gmail.com for e-mail.
And we're looking forward to hearing from you.
And until we speak again, have agood week.
Goodbye.
Welcome to Expats Listen with Ryan and Liz.
This is the podcast where we share the ups and downs, the
struggles and the celebrations of living abroad.
I'm Ryan. And I'm Liz Ryan, how was your
week? Oh this was a really busy and
awesome week. We did a road trip and we find
ourselves in Bordeaux, France and it's our first time here and
(00:23):
I am absolutely loving the city.It's gorgeous and obviously the
food is the highlight and I haveeaten way too much duck this
week. And how are things with you,
Liz? Yeah, I mean the same.
I'm very, very full of duck and it's amazing and also a bit
difficult at times because I can't say no.
I don't know about other people and self-control, but I really
(00:46):
don't think I have any. When something is truly
delicious, like every bite is incredible, I don't know how
people stop eating. I really don't understand it.
So I just keep eating it. I keep eating it, I keep eating,
and then I feel a bit sick afterward.
But it was amazing in every bitethat I experienced.
(01:07):
I have 0 regrets. Me neither.
OK, well, we're not talking about food this week, but what
are we talking about, Ryan? We're talking about whether or
not moving to Portugal might be for you.
So you think you want to move toPortugal?
Yeah, I think this is quite a big one because there are so
many people thinking about moving to Portugal right now, so
(01:30):
many people coming to Portugal right now, and it's such a
popular destination. I feel like it's on every list.
My dad's retirement community has everyone talking about it.
It's mentioned constantly, it's in so many conversations and I
really think this is one of those times where the sugar
(01:50):
coated version of things is whateveryone gets told and we're
here to tell you the reality. Yeah, it's been such a hot topic
for a good few years now and I think so many people are
considering it more and more. And while they're doing the
consideration, so many things are changing.
So I think it's a really good idea to cover what the reality
(02:11):
is of the situation before you jump on an aeroplane and arrive.
So looking forward to this. Yeah, so I guess let's start
with the good, the bad and the ugly.
So the good. We've got weather, obviously a
lot of people are coming here for sunny weather, nice weather,
warm weather, no snow, all of this.
We've got healthcare. We'll get into it in other
(02:33):
topics, but Ryan and I have bothused the healthcare system and
have been so impressed. We know that there are issues
with not having enough doctors and doctors having to work too
much overtime, but in general I have been nothing but impressed
with the Portuguese healthcare system.
Fish, I have to say, like fresh fish in Portugal is
(02:56):
unbelievable. We eat so much of it.
Ryan, I think you've eaten more fish since moving to Portugal
than in every year of your life before that combined.
What a new and amazing addition to my life, really so good and
to be able to have fish of this quality, I'm a lucky, lucky boy.
Wine. We are talking to you from
France right now and I'm still telling you that Portuguese wine
(03:17):
is phenomenal. It's well priced, it's really
good quality. It's hard to find a bad bottle
of wine. There are gorgeous beaches.
The beaches are truly stunning from the north to where we live
in the middle of the country, all the way down South.
There are cliffs, there are these beautiful little beaches.
(03:38):
There are long beaches. The beach in our house is over
20 kilometers long. There is diversity in this
coastline that is going to be beautiful all the time wherever
you go. Yeah, and there's also a slower
pace of life with people moving at their own speed, which is
really a big deal with regards to your experience of day-to-day
(04:00):
life and what it is that you're taking out of the joys of
living. And the people are some of the
nicest and most incredible people you'll ever meet around
the whole world. That's not to say they aren't
amazing people in other places, but the concentration of high
quality, humble, kind, honest people in Portugal is
(04:21):
phenomenal. And I think the other thing that
really puts us in play is the growing expat community.
The number of new people arriving on a daily basis is
really a huge thing that's changing the landscape of the
country and it's a place where you can find a lot of support
because it's people who might beexactly like you.
(04:44):
So now we'll move on to what we put in the category of the bad.
So the first is that you need tolearn the language and it's
going to be harder than you think it is.
I think for people like me who spoke Spanish before or have
some kind of a background in another language, you assume
that you're going to be having amuch easier time learning a
(05:08):
language that's so similar, right?
And I think Spanish and Portuguese written are very
similar. Spoken are very different.
And I have this problem all the time where it's really easy for
me to read things in Portuguese and then I hear someone say
something and I'm like, whoa, I am lost.
And you really have to put the work in.
(05:28):
No, it's not an easy language. You can actually learn it, and
it's an important thing to learnso that you can function fully
in society. But it's not an easy language to
learn and be prepared to learn. Regardless of whatever Romance
background you might have in terms of language, you're going
to need to come here and adapt and adjust especially to maybe
(05:51):
more local Portuguese people whospeak really fast and understand
that whenever you interact with the Portuguese bureaucratic
system or any kind of organization, you're probably
going to need to have some levelof Portuguese to make it work.
Just something important to remember for learning
Portuguese. Then our next under the bad, we
(06:13):
have that prices have gone up a lot and what might be getting
sold to you as so cheap and you read these articles of like you
can retire in Portugal for $1000a month.
It's just not true anymore and the prices have gone up and it's
not so cheap. So you really need to be sure
that you know how much money it's things are going to cost
(06:36):
before you arrive. And then we moved to the ugly,
and the ugly is going to be bureaucracy and waiting longer
than you could ever imagine for every single thing that you need
to do in your life. It's just part of the experience
(06:56):
here. There is no way of you living a
normal life without accepting the fact that things are going
to take longer for you to get anything done.
And until you accept that fact, you are constantly going to be
on the edge. So please prepare yourself for
that. Ask yourself the question, am I
capable of living in a country where things take longer than
(07:19):
they should? As a rule, the exception does
happen where something accidentally might happen
quickly, but don't come here expecting things to move
quickly. Yeah, and whatever timeline that
you might have, Portugal will laugh in the face of your
timeline. If you think that you're going
to be at this place within a year, you're not.
You're just not like if things are going to take longer than
(07:41):
than you think that they're going to take.
So now we've got a little bit ofa list of things for you.
Don't come to Portugal unless, and this is kind of fun to come
up with this list and also I hope that it comes across from a
place of love because that's really where it started from.
(08:02):
We love Portugal, we love livingin Portugal, we love Portuguese
people and Portuguese culture, and we want to make sure that
the people who are coming in canshare in that love to not change
the place into what they want itto be, but to make the place
better by adding themselves to what already is.
(08:25):
It's true, you know this, this is a beautiful, beautiful place
with amazing people, incredible opportunities for people safety,
so many amazing things about Portugal.
And it's important though, to ask these questions before you
commit yourself to a new life. And that's really where we're.
So in terms of not coming to Portugal, unless what are we
(08:46):
going to start off with this? So what are the things don't
come to Portugal unless the 1st is?
Don't come to Portugal unless you're willing to learn the
language. We talked about this a bit
before. You don't have to speak
Portuguese to survive, But should you speak Portuguese if
you plan to live in Portugal? Yes.
Yeah, you really have to. I know a lot of people in Lisbon
(09:09):
especially are able to navigate quite normal lives without
speaking the language. But you're not actually able to
integrate into society. You're not really able to
experience what this country is truly about or make any real
connections without the language.
And I think a lot of people findthemselves in a situation where
(09:29):
they've spent considerable time here and they're living
day-to-day lives, but they feel very distant from their
neighbors and from their community and not being able to
connect to people who are off this place.
And that's because they're not able to speak the language.
And I would say it goes such a long way, even just making the
effort, because I don't think anyone's got the expectation
(09:53):
that you're going to start belting up perfect Portuguese.
I think being able to start small and basic conversations
with people really opens up so many doors to relationships and
friendships, and having just those few words which will
eventually turn into more words is such a big deal to people who
are here sharing the same space as you.
(10:15):
Yeah. I don't think it's about being
fluent in in any way. I think it's about putting
effort in and showing that you actually are willing to to try a
little bit. I think so many people from
Portugal have such a big turn around with regards to how they
view you once they see you try to speak Portuguese.
And I think that's such a nice way of starting a relationship
(10:38):
with someone where they respect you for trying to put yourself
in their shoes and trying to meet them in their place.
So the next thing, don't come toPortugal unless you're OK with
waiting. Yeah, so waiting at the post
office for two hours, waiting ata restaurant for 45 minutes
(11:00):
after you asked for the bill andyou just want to pay, waiting
for three years to renew a visa.This is the land of multi hour
waits. These are lovers of take a
number. And generally we said people are
not in a rush, which is kind of nice sometimes.
And people are not in a rush, which means if you are in a rush
(11:22):
you are going to hate your life here so much.
Yeah, I think it's also more than the third, Liz.
It's not just a case of saying I'm able to wait.
Do I have that level of patience?
It's accepting the fact that you're going to need to wait
even when you don't want to. Exactly.
So you can come here being an absolutely awesome person with
(11:43):
regards to being patient and calm, but you'll go very far
with that attitude because that's how society is here.
But one day you're going to needto get to the train station in
10 minutes, and you'll be standing at the supermarket
waiting to check out, and there is going to be an old lady who's
going to start a very long conversation with the checkout
(12:05):
worker. And that's what's going to stop
you from getting onto that train.
And at that moment is where you realize that how you feel about
patience and how you feel about calmness is going to be tested
to the extreme. So it's just something for you
to know about. And I think exactly what Ryan
said, like it's the things that you don't expect, it's the
(12:27):
waiting that you didn't think you would have to wait for.
And I think this comes up so often, it's one of the most
difficult parts for me about Portuguese life because I, I
expect the supermarket to have aconversation and I don't mind if
the person in front of me is having a long conversation at
(12:47):
checkout. And I honestly think it's kind
of sweet that they are friends and, and that's cool.
When I'm picking up a package atthe post office and I'm there
for three hours, I am like melting and filling with fury
and like, I really struggle. And I think you just don't
(13:09):
expect picking up a package to take 3 hours.
It just wasn't ever in what I thought was possible.
So it's these moments that I think really test you where
you're going to do something that you think should be really
simple and it's not. And I think it's an important
thing for people to ask themselves before they arrive
(13:31):
because there's a lot that needsto get done before you get
cracking with your Portuguese life, especially on the
bureaucratic front. So Next up, don't come to
Portugal unless you have realistic expectations on the
cost of living. Have you found an article from
2019 talking about $3 lunch specials and rent under 500
bucks a month? That is not true.
(13:53):
Today, rent in Lisbon is averaging around 1500 bucks a
month. That is a massive difference
from what you might have read, from what you might have seen,
from what you might have been told.
And if you come in thinking, I'mjust going to find this gorgeous
apartment with sea views, 500 bucks a month, you're not going
to find it. And you're going to be really
(14:14):
upset when you can't find it. And you're going to burn through
money on places that you're spending for a night at a time
or a week at a time. You're going to be spending two
grand to rent something for a month while you're trying to
find this perfect place that no one can find any more because it
just doesn't exist. And I think we see so many,
(14:35):
especially retired Americans coming here with this list of
prices that they got from someone pre COVID and it's just
not true. Yeah.
I think the other thing that I need to throw in there is maybe
a different perspective on it list, and that is to say that
there are cheaper places in Portugal that you can go and
(14:56):
stay where rent is cheaper, foodis cheaper, but it's nowhere
near related to the social mediaand news material that you have
read. That's true coming up into this
place. So if you want a place where
you're going to spend 500 bucks a month on rent, you're going to
be staying very far away from the major cities and you're
(15:18):
going to be living a very different life.
And if you're OK with that, thenthat's fine.
But then again, we also come back to the idea of saying how
good is your Portuguese? Because you're going to need to
have really good Portuguese because you'll be living in a
place where fewer people speak English so that you can have
that cheaper lifestyle. And you're going to be
sacrificing lots of other thingsas well, right?
You're going to be living in a really rural environment.
(15:40):
You're going to be quite far from the beaches.
You're going to be quite isolated in terms of just
people. And maybe that's what you want,
and there's nothing wrong with that.
But be prepared for that. Don't come here thinking you're
going to stay in the center of Lisbon or Porto, living the high
life, getting the very best restaurants, the best tourist
attractions without needing to pay top dollar for it.
(16:03):
And just one more note on cost of living.
Please please please please, please please do not be that
person who goes around loudly shouting about how cheap
everything is. Wow, only $5 for a beer?
That's nothing, guys. Read the room.
It's double the price that it was just a few years ago, and
(16:23):
local salaries have not changed.So that $5 beer is actually
really expensive here now. And talking about how cheap you
think everything is is truly just rubbing it in that you're
rich and you're privileged and you probably think that you're
better than all the people who are from here.
OK, so the next one, don't come to Portugal unless you actually
(16:47):
want to hang out with Portuguesepeople.
Portuguese people are some of the nicest people that you're
ever going to meet anywhere in the world.
We've talked about it before saying Portuguese people have
this perspective and this approach of I'm going to do this
because I would expect other people to do it for me, or I'm
(17:07):
going to be kind because I see kindness in others.
And it's such a kind and sweet way of looking at the world.
And they are willing to share that perspective with you in
terms of how they treat you, because that's just who they
are. And I think that if you arrive
here and you hide yourself from that part of society, you're
(17:29):
really doing yourself a major disservice from being able to
grow and learn, certainly, but also not being able to be a part
of the world that you're living in.
Because the biggest part of thatis comprised of people who are
from this country. So take the time to learn about
Portuguese culture and why Portuguese people do things the
(17:50):
way that they do them and who they really, really are and how
they really feel about things, because it's something that will
really change the way that you understand the society.
And I think that being able to accept this country for being
what it is, rather than it not being what you're about, is a
(18:10):
very dangerous game to play. Because what it does is it
starts pushing you towards having only expat friends, which
is such a limited way of living because everyone that is
surrounding you is basically an echo Chamber of how you feel and
what you think. And I've seen so many people
disappear into the woodwork because they're not a part of
(18:34):
what's going on in town. They're not able to go to
community events, they're not able to go into Portuguese
people's special celebrations and events because they don't
have any Portuguese friends. So make the effort to get to
know Portuguese people. They're incredible human beings.
And I think that being open to that is going to take you a very
(18:56):
long way all. Right.
Next up, it's kind of on the same tone, but don't come to
Portugal unless you are willing to be quiet most of the time to
show respect. Portuguese people are not loud.
They're not getting together andshouting and laughing and
carrying on in public. When you do that, everyone hates
(19:18):
you and I, I've seen so many Americans coming here and as
soon as you enter a restaurant, you're like, oh, that table's
American. Because they are being so loud.
They're not looking around them at all.
Everyone is staring at them. Everyone is upset that they're
there. They're making the experience
worse for everyone around them. I think another great example is
(19:39):
tantrums for children. We have lived in Portugal for
almost 7 years and I have seen 2tantrums held by children in
public in those seven years. Both of them were British
children with British parents. I've never once seen a
Portuguese child shouting and screaming and kicking their feet
(20:02):
and crying loudly and just goingon in public.
That just doesn't happen. As soon as it starts, they're
just whisked away and taken out of public because everyone knows
that public space. Is for peace public spaces, for
quiet public spaces to be enjoyed by everyone.
(20:23):
And whatever I'm doing can't take precedence over whatever
you're doing. Yeah, I think even on a
practical basis, so many times you go to a restaurant and
you're sitting at the restaurantand there's this low rumble of
people who are there, even if it's a full restaurant.
And it's pretty incredible because everyone's able to talk
to each other and hear each other.
(20:44):
And then the second you realize that there's a foreigner in the
crowd, it's because you can actually hear their
conversation. You can.
You can hear people gasping and shouting and talking about their
day. And invariably, it's not a
Portuguese person. Please observe and enjoy the
silence. It's good for you.
It means that everyone is enjoying themselves.
(21:06):
And as soon as you're in a private space, be as loud as you
want to be, right? Like there's nothing stopping
you from being loud at a party in your house or a friend's
house in different spaces that are yours.
Go wild. But when you're in public, I
think it's really such an important part of Portuguese
culture to be respectful and to show that respect.
(21:29):
And if you're not willing to do that and you think that you can
be as loud as you want to be wherever you want to be,
honestly just don't come to Portugal.
But sometimes, even when we're out, we have to be very careful
because sometimes as a South African, we are loud people.
And I do get carried away sometimes and I need to think,
oh, you know, let me calm down alittle bit.
(21:50):
And even with Liz, sometimes I remind her please use the inside
voice. It's true.
Like, honestly, Ryan has to remind me of that pretty
regularly. Still not all the time, but at
least like once a month, I wouldsay he'll remind me to use my
inside voice. And this is the thing, you know,
you're never going to be perfect, but putting that effort
in and making sure that when someone does say like, oh,
(22:11):
you're getting a bit loud there.It's like, oh OK, let me course
correct. Yes, because we're not from this
culture, we're not from this society, so we aren't naturally
attuned to this. So we need to adapt and we need
to learn so that we can be part of this group.
Otherwise we're going to be at restaurants making a loud noise
and be hated by our neighbors. I don't want that, you know, and
(22:32):
I don't want that for anyone who's wanting to come here
either. All right, Next up, don't come
to Portugal unless your salary expectations are low.
If you have a remote job or another source of income, this
doesn't apply to you. But if you're looking to start a
business or get a job here, you need to seriously lower your
salary expectations. The average salary is only about
(22:54):
€1000 a month. And anyone who thinks, oh, I'm
going to come, I'm going to start a restaurant, I'm going to
start cafe, I'm going to start to whatever, and I'm going to be
making 50 grand a year, 100 grand a year.
You're probably just not. And I think knowing that the
(23:14):
salaries are going to be lower really helps you with your
budget expectations as well. And if you do make more money,
great. And if you're able to get a job
that has a higher salary, amazing.
But if your expectation is high and you can't meet that
expectation, you are in real financial trouble.
If your expectation is low and you go higher than that, it's
(23:36):
great. You're going to need to work
really hard to make a very fair salary here, which doesn't
really compare very well to other European countries.
It's something to know. This is not the place to come.
And if you're expecting extremely high salaries, it's
just a different society, a different group of people.
(23:57):
So don't put yourself in a situation where you're over
committing in a month to month basis to bills that you might
not be able to pay because the salary is naturally low.
OK, Next up. This is a bit of a controversial
one, but don't come to Portugal unless you have a financial
pathway to go back to your country if it doesn't work out.
(24:18):
Oh, this is a this is a tricky one because Liz and I have a
little bit of a differing view on this because of who we are as
people. Yeah, it's true.
And I think this is one that I've just seen so many times
that so many people come here, they sell everything that they
had in their home country. They get rid of everything.
(24:39):
They've got exactly what they'vebudgeted as enough money to live
in Portugal for X amount of years until they think that
they're going to die and they hate it.
And now they are stuck or some other financial burden comes up,
an emergency or something like that, and they just don't have
(25:02):
the budget for it. And now they're here or there's
a family emergency. They need to go back.
They can't afford the flights back and forth.
And there's so many reasons for someone who moves to Portugal to
not live in Portugal forever. We talked about ex pets versus
immigrants of this word of forever.
And how do you decide last week?And most people don't know what
(25:26):
they're going to be doing forever.
Even if you think it and plan itand want it and dream it and
everything, life happens. And I think that anyone who's
coming here of I have exactly this much money and I'm going to
make it work with exactly this much money, and all of my
bridges are burned, my financialbridges, other bridges, and
(25:48):
everything is gone and I've got nothing anywhere else anymore
and I have to make this work. I think those people are going
to really, really struggle in Portugal.
And I do have so much sympathy for those people because I don't
think anyone does it on purpose,but it is something to remember
(26:09):
because you don't know what the future is.
Like Liz is saying, it might noteven necessarily be a case of
something external changing up how you feel about the country
or what your commitment might be.
It really might be something as simple as realizing that you
feel lonely and you miss your old life because you might need
(26:31):
to make some very drastic decisions to go back to
something similar to your old life.
Bearing in mind that it won't beanything similar to your old
life because you have got no more money because you spent it
all coming here. And you've got no stuff because
your house that you had, your car that you had, your
belongings that you had like everything is gone and replacing
(26:52):
all of that stuff, you're not going to be able to do that at
the price that you sold it for. Because you can end up being
stuck in between, regardless of whether or not you stay in
Portugal or whether or not you go back to your home country.
You're just not going to have either or about that carefully.
Because we've actually seen thatplay out with a lot of people
who have come. And remember, that group of
(27:13):
people are probably going to be the lowest number of people who
are going to share this experience with anyone.
Because if you struggle and aren't able to integrate and
start this new life, I wouldn't blame you for not sharing that
situation with other people. It might be kind of overwhelming
and make you feel embarrassed orshy or whatever it might be.
(27:37):
And they're not going to tell you about needing to consider
the idea of what might happen ifthis doesn't work out and you've
spent all of your money making this happen.
But like I said when we started this particular point, this and
I have a different perspective. If you're coming from a country
where you're struggling to make ends meet, where you might be
(27:57):
facing homelessness, you might be facing complete joblessness
and financial disaster, and you feel like you need to roll the
dice by coming to Portugal to try and make something happen
and make something work, do it. It's a different set of dice.
Right. Like it's a different role that
you're having because I think that the people who are coming
from America and the UK and Australia who are selling
(28:21):
everything and and gambling and rolling these dice on Portugal,
it's a different set of dice because the people who I'm
talking. About are coming here and are
going to be happy with the €1000a month average salary.
It's going to be enough to make sure that there's food on the
table, that there's a roof over their head and they were clothes
to wear, there's access to adequate healthcare, their
(28:42):
children can go to school. If that's what it is that you
need, Portugal can offer that toyou if if it does work out in
many different areas that that you need it to work out in.
But I would say that for those people running the dice and
paying your last penny to get here, it might be worth it
because you're in a different boat to the people who are here
(29:07):
looking for prosperity. Yeah, it's true.
It's true. And I think I agree with Ryan on
this, right? I think that it's not possible
for everyone to be able to have financial security, to have this
pathway back if it doesn't work out.
But if it is possible for you, do your best to have one.
(29:27):
All right, Next up, don't come to Portugal unless you are ready
to live without heat or air conditioning.
This is one that I feel like people don't think about and
don't talk about. Can you find these amenities?
Yes. Are they common?
No. Do we have friends who have paid
a lot of money to get heat and air conditioning in their homes?
(29:49):
We do, but we don't have either 1.
So in the summer we take a lot of cold showers.
In the winter, we wear a lot of layers indoors.
I'm always in a beanie in the winter.
I'm often wearing gloves in the winter inside of our house.
It's actually colder in your house in the winter than it is
outside because the sun will be shining and it'll be quite nice.
(30:12):
But then you go in your house and you're just going to be
very, very cold. And I think that this really
shocks a lot of foreigners who come.
It's kind of. Sort of regressive for a lot of
people after having moved to a place that they hoped would be
better than where they were from.
I think I really struggle more with the heat because I think
(30:34):
it's harder to cool yourself down than it is to warm yourself
up. So like during winter I think we
can throw on a bunch of hoodies and goats and beanies and be
generally fine. Whereas during the summer when
we have these terrible heat waves which are 40° plus, it's a
different game because you are just going to lie there on the
ground feeling hot. So we have a portable air
(30:55):
conditioner which we never use because the price of electricity
is very high, so expensive. So if you do.
Want an air conditioner or a heater?
You can have it. There are many companies who do
the installations and it is becoming more common.
But you are going to pay a pretty penny for it.
So like hundreds per month? Hundreds per month.
(31:17):
And it might be worth it for you.
I don't want to discourage anyone from that, but bear in
mind that you're going to be paying serious money for that,
and most people who live in Portugal aren't willing or able
to pay for that. Yeah, I'm definitely not
willing. Or able to pay for it.
I think I'm fine in the summer to take cold showers.
(31:38):
I go to the gym, I swim in the pool, I swim in the ocean.
Sometimes I am willing to moderate my heat like that.
And in the winter, that's, that's the harder one for me.
But I still think that we, we huddle together in the second
bedroom, which is the smallest room in the house.
And we do have like a tiny little electric heater that
(32:00):
doesn't use too much electricity.
And I think for me that's, that's the harder one.
No, that's the only way. To survive, I don't think that
you can get through some of these winters and summers
without some help, but you are paying for it.
So learn how to swim very well or bias or some blankets.
That's the best way to deal withit.
OK, Next up. Ryan, don't come to Portugal
(32:24):
unless you are confident in driving in dangerous conditions.
This one is a Ryan rant I think this might be.
One of the reasons why I was so excited to start this podcast,
just so that I could have a platform to share how I feel
about this particular topic. I love Portugal with all of my
heart. I think it's one of the most
(32:44):
incredible places that I've everhad the opportunity to visit,
let alone have the fortune to live here.
But as beautiful and as wonderful as all the people of
Portugal are and they are, the second you put them behind the
wheel of a car, they become exactly the opposite.
They are the craziest, most aggressive, inconsiderate and
(33:09):
unkind drivers. I would say at the very least in
mainland Europe. I don't want to extend it to
central parts of Africa and certain parts of South Asia
because it's pretty wild there too.
But putting a Portuguese person behind the wheel of a car is an
exercise in understanding the two extremes of humanity.
(33:34):
They drive like they discovered cars for the first time
yesterday and they are going to use them as hard as they
possibly can. They are weapons.
They are rocket ships to go to the moon at the faster speed
that they can go. The road signs are not even
(33:55):
guides. They're an inconvenience.
They're not even suggestions. It's.
Not something that. Anyone is interested in, they
are focused on getting to where they want to get to as quickly
as they possibly can, regardlessof anyone else.
And when they arrive, they are going to move slowly in whatever
it is that they're doing, but they are going to get there as
quickly as they possibly can. They're going to park, right?
(34:18):
And they will park. Anywhere at any point in time,
they will stop on a highway and reverse to look at what they
might have missed. They will stop in the middle of
a residential road to speak to their uncle's sister's father's
brother and have a 5 minute conversation while 40 cars pile
(34:39):
up behind them waiting for the conversation to end.
God knows what happens at traffic circles at roundabouts.
Only God knows because certainlyno one in Portugal does.
It is just carnage going around a traffic circle because no one
(35:00):
knows the rule. And even if they did, it
wouldn't matter. It goes further because of the
police aren't really interested in understanding what it is
that's going on. So when a car cruises past you
at 170 kilometers an hour in 100kilometer an hour zone, the
police won't care because they're not even there.
(35:22):
We have lived here for seven years.
Over 7 years I've come to learn that Portugal has the highest
per person wine consumption in the world and also the.
Highest per capita Rd. deaths inEurope In Europe?
And in the world, these are big numbers, right?
And in all of that time, I have never had a breathalyzer other
(35:47):
than the one time where a Portuguese lady T boned me at an
intersection because she didn't stop at a stop sign.
So there is absolutely shocking behavior on the roads here.
You will be fine. You will drive, but you will be
shown the full shining face of that risk every time you jump
(36:09):
into your car. And you need to know about this
because as someone who suffers from anxiety, it's a hell of a
way to live. And when you're on the road and
you're driving and you need to deal with these kinds of issues,
you really need to be able to rely on some type of internal
resilience and coping mechanism to be able to survive with it.
(36:31):
Otherwise it becomes a huge issue.
We have a number of friends who no longer drive or who work
really hard to not drive becauseof the conditions here.
And it's not going to change anytime soon.
More and more people, in fact, are being given greater access
to incredibly powerful and fast cars and they're using them.
And if you come here, please know that this is something you
(36:54):
need to be aware of. People don't talk about it, but
it's there. Rent over.
All right. Well, on that note, Next up is
don't come to Portugal unless you know that you're not better
than anyone else or deserving ofspecial treatment because of
where you're from or how much money you have.
(37:17):
We have met so many people like this.
They come here, they're on theirhigh horse.
They talk about how great they are, how much better they are,
how amazing everything is for them.
And then they hate it here because no one is going to be
rolling out a red carpet for you.
No one is going to be treating you different at the restaurant
because you're American or because you tipped well last
(37:39):
time that it's not what's ever going to happen for you.
And if you think that you just being here deserves people to
bow down to you and think thank you for coming and for investing
in this country and wow, you're so amazing because you have
(38:00):
blessed us with your presence. Really.
Don't come. Yeah, this is a place.
That humbles people quite quickly because the place isn't
that adaptive to foreign influence.
So one of the stories that a good Portuguese friend of ours
told us is that Portuguese people won't be told what to do,
(38:23):
but they also won't tell themselves what to do.
So they're not interested in being influenced by anything
other than what it is that they want to do.
It's like a very like deep Portuguese core belief.
And that becomes so much more apparent in the way that people
do things here by not listening to how things are supposed to be
(38:44):
based on what your expectations are.
And so a lot of people find themselves in situations where
they expect to be treated like aspecial boy or girl, but they're
not because they aren't special.And I'm a big fan of that
because I think it draws people together and it avoids, to at
least a certain extent, major unequal treatment and belief in
(39:07):
people being better than others.So big fan of that.
Just be aware. Me too.
I think I'm a. Big fan of it and you really see
it in places like the service industry where you go to a place
like America and you see how patrons treat waitstaff.
A lot of the time is quite negative, how someone is
treating the cleaner, how someone is treating people that
(39:29):
they believe have jobs that are quote below them.
And in Portugal I really don't see that, which I'm so grateful
for. It means that your waitress is
just as valid and valuable as you are.
The person who's cleaning the gym gets a good morning and a
good afternoon and is treated fully equally to everyone who's
(39:52):
spending money to be at the gym.And I think that this is so
wonderful that we don't have these striations in in class.
But it also means that you're not going to benefit from being
treated better than anyone else.And in order to achieve that
equality, it means that you're not going to get your special
treatment. All right, last on our list,
(40:14):
Don't come to Portugal unless you embrace change.
And look, I think this is for almost anywhere.
If you're going to be moving to a different country, if you're
going to be moving even to a different state or province or
city within your own country, you need to expect change.
But in Portugal, we've seen so much change just in the few
(40:35):
years that we've been here that I feel like we're giving this
list now and half of it might change next year.
Expect the visa rules to change,expect the prices to change.
Expect your personal struggles to change.
I think that if you go there with this very defined set of
expectations of what life is going to be like, you are never
(40:57):
going to have any peace. Yeah, this is a.
Very fast changing environment for lots of different reasons
because the number of people whoare coming here and the external
factors of economics and politics and just general life
is making sure that this place is not what it used to be on a
(41:19):
day-to-day basis. You can see it and Liz is 100%
right in saying that you need tobe able to deal with change here
because it's not necessarily small change that's going to
affect you. The price of housing doubled in
a very short period of time while we've been here and that's
a big deal because that means you can live somewhere or you
(41:40):
can't live somewhere. We've seen so many people who
have had notice put in from the landlords saying that renters
increased by 30%, forty percent,50% just on one particular day.
And they need to then figure outsome way of finding a place to
live or negotiating or deciding what their future holds.
(42:01):
So when you come here, don't expect it to be as sure as it's
sometimes being sold to a lot ofpeople because I think I've got
a lot of criticism honestly, andmaybe it's a good time for me to
bring this up. I have a lot of criticism to a
lot of online creators about what Portugal is about because
(42:21):
the picture that's painted is very one sided.
It's very much geared towards getting views, getting clicks,
getting likes, and describing this place as being something
that it is, but not hearing the full picture of what it really
is. And I think that a lot of people
(42:42):
sign up for what it is they've been told this place is like,
rather than what it actually is like.
And then when they arrive and they haven't listened to an
amazing list like this, they're shocked and surprised at what it
actually is. And they find themselves caught
off guard in terms of making a life here, in terms of accepting
(43:02):
what this place is really like, adapting themselves, changing
who they are so that they can fit in, and then struggle.
There's so many people who are here who have signed up for
something that they didn't know they were signing up for and are
floundering a little bit. And I have all the empathy and
sympathy for them in the world because it's not easy.
(43:24):
But there is that opportunity for you to do the research
before you arrive to at least minimize the possibility of
finding yourself in the situation.
And please don't take any kind of real advice from someone
who's selling you some kind of dream about Portugal.
It's a beautiful place. It's a wonderful place.
(43:45):
You can totally make it your home.
But it's not perfect and it's not easy.
Yeah, I think. That's such a good point.
And kind of going back to this embracing of change, our list is
ours. It's personal to us.
And you might find completely different things.
You might disagree on half of these points, and they just
(44:05):
might not apply to you. But knowing that you're going to
come to a place and be ready to embrace that change is so
important to your ability to enjoy living there.
Yeah. And share with us what?
It is that you've gone through that's been expected would tell
us what you think is something people need to know before they
(44:26):
move here because it's somethingthat can help someone's life
massively in what it is that they're going through and what
it is that they should be expecting for themselves and
their families going forward. And we'd love to hear that.
All right, so that's our wrap. Up on don't come to Portugal
unless and now we are ready for our would you rather.
(44:46):
So in this segment, we choose two countries that one or both
of us have been to and we go through a series of questions of
would you rather do this in country A or in country B.
So this week we are talking about two countries that Ryan
and I have discussed potentiallyliving in.
Because we currently live in Portugal, we obviously don't
(45:09):
live in either of these, but they were big discussions.
So I think it'll be a good wouldyou rather Slovenia versus
Ireland? Are you ready?
I am really these are. Two of my favorite places in the
world. So I'm psyched for this.
All right. Would you rather eat?
A pizza in Slovenia or in Ireland?
Slovenia It's. Easy, it borders Italy and there
(45:32):
must be one or two fantastic Italian people who have at least
taken a day trip and I'm going to ask them to make a pizza for
me. Where would you choose?
Same I think that. The food in Slovenia is such a
draw for Slovenia that you've got Balkan food, you've got
Italian food, you've got Austrian food, you've got all
kinds of food and everything is fresh, everything is local.
(45:57):
The first Spar supermarket that we went to in Slovenia, which
Spar is like a giant international chain and it was a
big supermarket, I went to buy some eggs and some bread and a
couple of small things. The egg section had the names of
the chickens that the eggs came from that day, the freshest.
(46:19):
Eggs we've ever had in Europe, Ihave never tasted.
An egg that was from that day, it was really, it was
incredible. And it's not just the eggs.
I feel like so many things in Slovenia that we ate were just
like, this is this has to be fresh from today.
(46:41):
Like, there's no way that this could have been picked yesterday
even. Yeah, Slovenia has.
Really. Worked out how to identify the
most important things in terms of freshness and quality.
People, they really eat well. Things are really done in a nice
way in most cases. They I, I agree.
I think Slovenia's on another level with that.
(47:02):
All right. Next up, would you?
Rather go for a hike in Ireland or in Slovenia.
Oh, that's. Hard.
That's a really. Good question.
Because Slovenia is one of the most stunning places in the
world. Genuinely not any kind of over
exaggeration. I'm not waxing lyrical about it,
it's just that gorgeous. The problem is that there's so
(47:26):
many hills and mountains, and I hate hills and mountains, so I
would probably still do the hike.
In Slovenia, we did the hike up the mountain next to Lake Blade
and that really that really pushed me to my limits.
But as it is with any really good hike, it really was worth
(47:47):
it at the end for that view downinto the lake.
And with Ireland, I feel like I could probably hike further and
longer because, yeah, because it's flatter and I think the
weather there is also more favorable to long distance
walking. So yeah, I would choose
Slovenia, but not, not ignoring the potential for Ireland.
(48:13):
Have a really good walk you. Yeah, I think that Ireland has.
A ton of potential for amazing long walks.
It's a big part of why I think Iwould enjoy spending a lot of
time there because the walks in the nature are so great.
But Ryan is not a fan of hills and mountain hiking.
I am a huge fan of hills and mountain hiking and I love to
(48:34):
climb a mountain. I would climb mountains all the
time if I could, and I would be absolutely thrilled to hike some
mountains in Slovenia. Very cool.
Right, Next up, would you rather?
Ask for directions in Ireland orin Slovenia.
Oh, that's actually. A really good question because
both sets of people from those countries are both awesome.
(48:57):
Such nice people. But I would go towards more
Irish because I think making friends with Irish people is a
lot easier. I think Slovenian people are a
little bit more guarded when it comes to meeting new people and
starting conversations. They're really friendly, they're
really nice, but they aren't really sort of open to laughing
(49:19):
and joking and becoming besties,as opposed to in Ireland where I
found it really easy to get intoa full on conversation and get
to know someone of a very chanceencounter.
So I'd choose Ireland. What would you choose?
Yeah, I think it would be such adifferent.
Experience, right? Because I feel like in Slovenia
someone would take your request so seriously and they would make
(49:39):
sure that you knew exactly whereyou had to go.
They would be able to speak like12 languages because it seems
like everyone there speaks like 12 languages.
So English wouldn't be an issue at all and they would take it
seriously. They would they would worry
about you getting there properlyand they would make sure or that
you were going to arrive safely in your destination versus
Ireland. I think you're going to have a
(49:59):
laugh. I think you're going to joke
around. They might give you the wrong
directions at 1st and then and be able to laugh at you a little
bit and strike up a conversationthat might lead to a friendship.
So I'm going to also go with thepossibility of friendship and
and Ireland there, even though Ithink that Slovenia you would
(50:20):
get phenomenal directions. Next up would.
You rather visit for a long weekend in Ireland or in
Slovenia? That's a really.
Good question. I'm actually not too sure.
I think I would probably go to Ireland for a long weekend
because you can do a lot in Ireland in a long weekend.
(50:45):
It's not such a big country. You can drive very far neither
Slovenia. It's true, but I.
Think that if you find somethingthat you really like in
Slovenia, it might be a good place to like explore or even do
repeated things. So in Bled, that's a tiny little
town and you could go to Bled and you could spend like 4 days
(51:05):
there and you could hike four different mountains in four
days. And that's a tiny little spot.
And I think in Ireland you can go to like 7 different little
towns over the course of four days and see quite a lot.
We saw the Blondie Stone, we sawKilkenny, we saw Cork.
We saw so many places in such a short period of time.
(51:28):
And I think that's one of the nice things about Ireland, being
able to experience so much of the country in a very short
period of time. So yeah, I would choose Ireland,
not in a very convincing way, but I think regardless of what
you choose, I think you're goingto come out nicely.
What would you choose between the two?
Yeah. So I think.
I'm actually because I love bothplaces so much.
(51:48):
They are both small and easy to see a lot in a short period of
time. I'm going on flights and it's
easier to fly in to Ireland. With Ryanair, you've got cheap
flights from everywhere around Europe versus Slovenia.
It is a smaller airport. It is harder to get to.
I feel like a long weekend in Ireland.
(52:08):
You can get there so cheaply andthen enjoy, get there back.
It'll be a direct flight. It'll be really simple versus I
think there needs a little bit more work that goes into getting
to Slovenia. So I'm choosing Ireland for
because you get more time. In Ireland, I think so.
OK. OK, OK.
All right, Next up. Would you rather do a road trip
(52:30):
in Ireland or in Slovenia? So I think I.
Would choose Ireland with this because there's so many little
towns which are so gorgeous and pretty.
And I also really like the in between stuff, you know, the
rural side of things where there's sheep and livestock and
just expanses of the ocean and green grass.
(52:55):
And I think just spending a lot of time in the car looking at
that is a great road trip for me.
Whereas I think in Slovenia you're going to see some
incredible mountains and incredible landscape as well,
but it's also really small. So I reckon you could get
through Slovenia in a day, whichisn't really that much of A road
(53:16):
trip. So that would really be why I
would choose Ireland. It's not a very convincing
argument, but it is mine. But Slovenia is surrounded.
By everything else that you wanta road trip through, yeah, but
you're not. That's not.
Slovenia. That's the Balkans, that's
Italy, that's Austria, Yeah. You just have to choose the
country and that's so I don't think you can get through.
(53:38):
Slovenia in a day for sure. I think we're talking more like
a couple of weeks to really see things properly because I think
there's so many small places that we haven't been to and we
only went to. Ljubljana.
And to Bled and to a couple of smaller places in between.
But I do think that in a Slovenia road trip, you would be
(53:59):
able to see so many of those tiny places.
However, I think Ireland was made for the road trip.
And I think that the tiny town that has one little pub and you
walk into that one little pub and everyone is super friendly
and Ryan gets to watch his rugbyand we eat our fish and chips
(54:20):
and it's just easy and lovely and you laugh a lot.
And I think it's so nice to be able to explore the smaller
places that way. So I do, I do agree.
I think I'm going to go Ireland on this one too.
You went through. So much to get to the same
(54:40):
answer as me, but it's hard because I.
Really love both countries so much.
This is going to be the most difficult one of all.
Would you rather buy a house in Ireland or in Slovenia?
I hate the fact that you're. Asking me this question because
it is such a good one and I don't know if I'm not going to
have major regrets regardless ofwhich one I choose.
(55:02):
I think I'm going to say Irelandonly for the fact that Ireland
has a lot of stuff in its culture and its way of life,
which is similar in certain waysto how I lived in South Africa.
I'm also a big fan of being ableto speak English easily with
most people in any particular place.
(55:24):
It just makes life a lot easier for me and it might be really a
small set of factors that I'm using to make quite a big
decision, but I think that thosethings are important enough to
me to inform the decision of wanting to buy a house in
Ireland as opposed to Slovenia. Which one would you choose?
(55:47):
You know it's. Such a difficult question for me
because I really feel like both have so much to offer.
I think like you're saying, the daily life in Ireland would be
really wonderful. Like we could get a house in a
little small town, we could finda community, we could be
regulars at some restaurants anda pub, and we could have our our
(56:09):
things and our friends and all of this.
I think in Slovenia, you are so close to nature.
I would go hiking every single day.
I would have this amazing food that I could probably grow
myself. And you're so close to so many
other countries where you're able to spend time in Croatia
and Italy and Austria and Serbiaand Montenegro.
(56:31):
And like all of these places would be so easy to get.
To like really? I think this is like such a such
a big one for me, but I think I'm going to go Slovenia.
That's not a bad. Call, I don't think that Ireland
is that far removed from Slovenia.
So Slovenia is a really beautiful and stunning place and
(56:56):
living there in your own little house is not a bad call.
But then I think about friends. That I know I would like make
more friends in Ireland then I probably would make in Slovenia.
And how important is that? And community and yes, they all
speak many languages and I'd be able to get by in English.
But oh, it really it's, it's a tough one.
We would like to know what you guys think too.
(57:18):
Like have you been to Slovenia? Do you love Slovenia as much as
we love Slovenia? What do you think?
Where would you want to live? I'd love to know what other
people. Think because these are such
special places and there's so many interesting ways of looking
at it, I'd love to know what they think.
Well guys, thank you so much forsharing this time with us.
It's been really good to talk about what you should know
(57:40):
before you move to Portugal thisweek and if you have any
thoughts or feelings or observations from anything that
we've talked about, please let us know.
We really are interested to hearwhat it is that you've
experienced and what you think. You can contact us on our
Instagram, which is at Expats Listen or on
(58:00):
expatslisten@gmail.com for e-mail.
And we're looking forward to hearing from you.
And until we speak again, have agood week.
Goodbye.
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