August 5, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of 'Faith in the Line of Duty', Ryan Jacobs shares his transformative journey of faith, detailing his struggles with self-identity and the pivotal moment he accepted Christ. He discusses his experiences in the Air Force, the importance of community, and the unseen challenges faced by military personnel. The conversation emphasizes the need for reliance on God amidst life's difficulties and the significance of mentorship and serving others. Ultimately, Ryan highlights the fulfillment found in a relationship with Jesus and the hope it brings, especially in the context of military life.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I hit a point where I was just in this awful pit of self-identity.
And I just remember driving one night and being like, I am far from the Lord right now.
I have not invited him into my life, and he has pursued me.
I can feel him pursuing me, but I have not invited him into my life.
(00:24):
And I remember just pulling over the side of the road and just like...
accepting Christ at that moment and being like, I don't know what this looks like, but Ijust know that where I'm at without the Lord is not a good place.
you
(00:46):
Welcome to Faith in the Line of Duty, a podcast where real people in uniform show howtheir faith in Christ has carried them through the toughest moments.
I'm Daniel Johnson, husband, father, and currently active duty in the United States AirForce.
Each episode I sit down with military members and first responders to talk about the powerof the gospel, the strength of community, and how faith transforms lives, even in the line
(01:09):
of duty.
The views expressed in this podcast are those of the host and do not constituteendorsement by the Department of Defense, Department of the Air Force, or the U.S.
government.
Now here's your host, Daniel Johnson.
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Faith in the Line of Duty.
(01:30):
Today I have the honor of introducing Ryan Jacobs.
He's a good friend of mine.
We're just glad to have you on today.
Yeah, so let's just start off by just telling us what your childhood was like.
Yeah, so I grew up on the West Coast.
I had a good childhood.
Grew up in a family that was very supportive.
(01:52):
I was always involved in a little bit of everything.
So especially with sports, that's the biggest thing that sticks out.
I was involved in soccer, wrestling, track, swimming, water polo.
I got into competitive rifle shooting for a number of years, did go-kart racing.
So it was like,
Every weekend it felt like we had something so grew up doing a lot of hobbies Spent a lotof time outside My dad introduced me into elk hunting and I got into that at a young age
(02:22):
and then yeah went to went to school after that and wound up joining the Air Force no Trapshooting so I was doing like Olympic style rifle is like the
the sport that I got into the most.
I remember doing trap shooting in high school and that was a lot of fun.
(02:44):
And it was weird kind of looking back now.
It's like you just brought your shotgun in your car to work.
You can't roll up to the back of the building and turn your shotgun in.
It just wouldn't work today.
And traps like applicable.
feel like right you can go like bird hunting like precision rifle like I don't know likemaybe for really long-range stuff helpful, but
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What was your favorite sport?
The one I definitely dedicated the most to was the rifle shooting.
I don't know about favorite.
As far as just pure adrenaline, it's hard to beat a real aggressive water polo match.
Being in high school and having just the screaming of being inside of a pool where all thesounds are echoing and stuff, that was always really fun.
(03:34):
Not um huge.
I want to say we graduated maybe like four to five hundred people or so.
See, when I hear that, I grew up in a class.
It was 43 people.
Yeah.
OK.
In the same building, we had kindergarten through 12th grade.
you knew everybody.
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Ever since I was there from fifth grade, I just knew everybody there.
I always think about how that would be so much different growing up in a big school.
Yeah, I mean, there was so many people I just didn't know, you know, growing up.
Why do you decide the Air Force over other branches?
Yeah, so um well, one, I knew I didn't want to be on a boat.
(04:15):
So that ruled out the Navy.
Didn't want to be on a boat for six months.
I like going fishing on my time.
But as far as being stuck uh on an aircraft carrier, I wasn't super interested in that.
So um as far as recruiting technique, I'd say air shows worked pretty good for me.
So airplanes have just always been real cool.
m I went and I saw the Blue Angels, ironically.
(04:38):
Didn't decide to join the Navy after seeing the Blue Angels.
because of the boats.
I was like, well, if I want to be in and around airplanes and, you know, just like seemslike the Air Force, if I'm attracted airplanes is a good place to be.
So, yeah, my dad took me to an air show and I asked him, said, what do I need to do inorder to be around airplanes?
(05:01):
And he said, you know, go to the Air Force.
So here I am.
I have lot of good memories from air shows too.
Mm-hmm.
It was definitely kind of Definitely a big part of the decision So did you you do fouryears of college then you joined after that yeah
years of college and then I got my commission.
(05:21):
em And then, yeah, I've been in the Air Force ever since.
And looking back at your childhood, what would you say would be your most memorablemoment?
That's such a good question.
Yeah, honestly, most memorable would probably have been going elk hunting with my dadgrowing up.
(05:42):
um There was such a buildup to it.
um In Oregon, you m can't hunt until you're at least 12 years old.
So I became aware that I was interested in this five or six or whatever.
It was like, well, I got one more year, one more year, one more year.
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So by the time you're 12, I was just like chomping at the bit.
And where we went, um, was not a good, like it was probably not a great place to start asfar as like just how challenging it was going to be.
Um, the harvest rates there were really, really low.
Um, and it was a, a really short season.
So it was only three days long, um, for you to shoot like a bull elk with a rifle, but.
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ah Everyone's out there.
everyone's out there.
It's public land.
Um, and the terrain is just so dense.
Like you can only see, you might as well use a bow cause like you can see only see 30yards, but I had a rifle and, so we, I remember we woke up and we went up the mountain and
it was like just pouring rain, like not great weather to start in.
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And I was not dressed well, but it was soaking us.
was probably November and, uh, we get up there and
Um, I'd sat for maybe, I don't know, 30, 45 minutes on my opening morning.
And like, I couldn't believe it, but like here's this bull elk that comes rolling in.
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And I didn't see it initially.
My dad's talking.
He's like, I think I hear something coming.
All I hear is the rain.
He's like, okay, no, something's definitely coming.
And, uh, he's like, okay, I see it.
It's an elk.
I don't know if it's a bull or a cow yet.
And, uh, um, I'm still like, you know, lost, no idea.
where the elk is and then he steps out of this tree like right in front of me.
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And he just kind of stood there looking at us and my dad's like, well, you better, youbetter shoot or it's going to step on us.
Cause he was that close.
was like right there.
So I was able to get the elk and like just after all the buildup of like just wanting togo for so many years and then, you know, the harvest rate probably being like, it was,
don't know, probably like five to 10%.
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that year of like people that were successful in getting an elk and just to be able tohave it like that opening morning and share that experience with my dad was just so cool.
Man, what a blessing.
Yeah.
I'm sure you had a lot of adrenaline too.
Yeah.
I would have, I have never gone hunting, but I'm sure I'd have been like shaking.
yeah.
The shakes pretty bad.
Thankfully, I was sitting down.
I was able to kind of rest it on my knee.
(08:14):
And the elk was like, I mean, we must have been sub 20 yards.
it was a big target.
I know you said you were big into hunting.
What was the first animal that you killed?
So that would have been that elk.
Oh, was that elk.
Yeah.
So I mean, I probably had some poor releases on a fish that didn't make it or something.
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But yeah, that would have been the first one.
I didn't really get to go too much.
We went a little bit after that.
But I became more and more involved with the extracurriculars of all the sports in highschool.
So that made our weekends get shorter and shorter.
Yeah, so I didn't really pick it up until much later when I was stationed down in Texas.
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It was kind of when I picked it back up again.
And I definitely want to take my son to do hunting and my daughter too if she wants to.
what did your dad tell you before you went out there?
I you said he was very supportive, but did he prepare you to be killing an animal for aspecific purpose?
Yeah, a little bit.
em It's hard to remember.
(09:21):
It's been a while, but there has always been a reverence and a respect for the game.
em You are taking a life.
So I remember him talking about, OK, when we go out into the range, we're going topractice shooting before.
It's not to just hope we hit what we're aiming at.
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There's a respect there of, we're going to put the time in on the front end.
to make sure you're shooting well enough that when the time comes and opportunity andthings are always going to happen.
But um if we can do our part on the front in the preparation in order to make sure thatlike we have a good chance at an ethical kill, that was important.
So that's been something I've carried with me.
(10:04):
So I'll definitely use that if I do end up going ahead of course I need to learn a lot ofother stuff, too So what is your experience been like in the Air Force?
How long have you been in now?
So I've been in, I commissioned in 2017, so it's 2025 now, so I guess, yeah, eight years.
So it's been good.
I've had the opportunity to work a lot of different jobs that I wasn't really expecting.
(10:28):
yeah, so I started off in Texas and then, yeah, I'm in a different location now, butthere's just been a lot of opportunities I've been able to work.
Some of them I've really, really enjoyed.
Working with people has always been good.
Others have been less enjoyable.
But my favorite has always been when I've been able to work and lead people in a way that,you know, get to know them and get to see their desires and be able to do things from a
(11:02):
leadership position that allows people to have opportunities has been...
for sure the most rewarding thing.
That and just seeing progress too.
Just being able to be in an environment where people start at a certain level ofproficiency and you get to work with them, teach them and coach them and by the end
they're doing things that they did not think they were gonna be able to do.
So that has just been super encouraging um and I've loved it.
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And one thing I've noticed about you too is like you're just a naturally gifted person atteaching.
A lot of the stuff that you've taught me when it comes to you know, following Christ ordifferent other things that we're passionate about, like you're just good at explaining
things, just comes very, very natural for you.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, I think I've had some really good teachers myself.
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And em there's been some that I've really resonated with.
I think that just the way that they explain things has been, this is definitely not my owndesign, but I have pulled from eh other people's techniques and just how to break things
down.
I've had a lot of good coaches on my end.
And think that's also very rewarding, in the job that I am.
(12:07):
As K9, you get a brand new team out of tech school.
They get a brand new dog.
And you just get to see them progress.
And the stuff that they used to do before, uh let's say if we fast forward a year later,if they were to look back at what they've done before, it's just a complete difference.
then they get validated and certified, and you can just see that they just feelaccomplished.
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Super cool.
Yeah.
So a lot of people see men and women in the uniform, and they know that they go ondeployments.
They know that they serve.
But what are some unseen things that people usually don't see that members in the militaryor the Air Force go through?
Yeah, unseen things.
em Yeah, just in general, I would say like you there's a lot of.
(12:57):
In front of the scenes, things that get seen right, we get I mean, whether we're in a bigconflict or not um deployments and um there's a lot of like media presence like around
those.
You don't see like all of the training on like the back half um and you don't see like.
the details of not just what it takes to be in a large scale conflict and all of thelogistics involved in that, but the intricacies of each one of those people and all of the
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stuff that they're dealing with as well.
It's been very interesting.
You view it from the outside, this well-oiled machine.
And to an extent, is and can be.
But life is also very messy.
And I think that's where like, eh
That's where when you put on the clean uniform and people see that, there's a certainassumption with the way things are em about that person.
(13:53):
But as I've been in it, we know that we live in this broken world.
people are still doing their best and showing up.
eh But there's still brokenness.
so like.
oh
that unseen struggle of, that's where I think having great leaders who take the time toget to know their people is so important.
(14:15):
Because if you get to know somebody, not just on a how well do they do their job, but awhat do they look like when they're having a bad day level, and you can see that, that I
think is where the unseen, if you can be the person that sees that, that is where you aregonna thrive as a leader.
And I think something that I've tried to do is try to find people's why.
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know you kind of hear that a lot, but there are people that are really good at finding,what makes this person tick?
How do they learn?
How do they feel like they're contributing to the mission?
And I think that's really important.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's like, that's what gets people excited, right?
In helping somebody find their why, you know, is awesome too.
(15:00):
I've seen that.
I've seen other people like that I've been working with and their why did not line up withtheir current career.
And it was like, okay, well, this may have been your absolute dream job when you werelittle, but the why is now not matching up.
So let's like put you in a different place.
And then they thrive, right?
Just because it was somebody else's dream.
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And you know, that's...
That's how I think people can feel trapped is like if you're like your why doesn't line upwith your career.
You know, so that's good.
So did you grow up in
No, I did not.
um I would say we went a little bit.
I was definitely introduced to church while I was growing up.
(15:41):
There was a season where we were consistent, um but it kind faded, and I don't really knowwhy, but it kind of turned into every weekend, every other weekend, once a month.
We'd um go on Easter and Christmas and then kind of just faded after that.
Gotcha.
So at what point did uh you follow Christ?
(16:04):
Yeah.
So I was down in Texas, this would have been like 2019 for me.
So I'm like well past college, two years graduate after college at this point.
And yeah, I don't know.
I had really kind of like found the end of myself at that point.
(16:24):
I would have said I was a Christian growing up.
There's like this interesting
I think especially in the United States, this interesting connection between a good personand a Christian.
for me, like I deeply related to this, this, this connection between good person andChristian is as believers, we know that that is not right.
(16:52):
Like a good person and a Christian, those are not good.
Like, I'm kind of stumbling over my words here, but my point is I was reading this bookand he was talking about
how these two things that are not exclusive got joined together to the point where it isnow offensive if you consider yourself a good person and you know that a good person is a
(17:14):
Christian, but you're really not following Christ to get sucked into this belief that youare a Christian because you are a good person.
So like, I think for me, like, it was really hard to break apart, like,
good person and Christian.
like, sure, maybe by like worldly standards, maybe by like, you know, taking the averageperson like, sure, I would say like, I did some good things, but I was not like a good
(17:40):
person.
We know there, you know, Romans says that there is no one that is good.
So all of that rambling to say that I had this deep rooted identity in that being aChristian meant being a good person.
And if I was to admit that I was not a Christian,
I was admitting I was not a good person.
So that was a big struggle for me.
But I hit a point right in 2019 where I kind of had to look at my life.
(18:06):
I had this long-term relationship that I was in that I thought was going really well.
It ended abruptly.
And for some reasons that I was kind of like shocked about and it required me to likereflect and look at myself a little bit and go, well, yeah, like there's some issues here.
And what I'm saying about myself,
is in like being a Christian, because I would aggressively defend that I was a Christianand believer at that point, but I hadn't gone to church in five years.
(18:32):
em And not to say that you can't be a Christian and have not go to church.
That's not what I'm saying.
But if that is a consistent habit pattern, right, where you don't find a need or desire togo to church, I think it's valid to take a look at whether your salvation is genuine at
that point.
So I hit a point where I was just in this like awful pit.
(18:54):
of self-identity.
I just remember driving one night and being like, I am far from the Lord right now.
I have not invited him into my life, and he has pursued me.
I can feel him pursuing me, but I have not invited him into my life.
(19:15):
And I remember just pulling over the side of the road and just accepting Christ at thatmoment and being like, I don't know.
what this looks like, but I just know that where I'm at, like without the Lord is not agood place.
Right.
So at that point, like I accepted Christ, but my theology was all over the place.
(19:37):
I didn't know anything about anything, but you don't need theology to accept Christ.
Right.
That is the starting point.
That's what's so beautiful about it.
So um at that point I'm like, well, now I have this desire to learn.
So I remember I read the whole Bible in a month.
Like, I just sat down and I had this, like, as I was going through this breakup, like, Iwas not in a good place.
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And I couldn't sleep at night, you know?
And um I'm like, well, if I'm not able to sleep, I might as well, like, pick up the word.
So I just started Genesis.
And I just power through it.
And I just, OK, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, like, just all the way through it.
And I read the whole thing.
And comprehension, very low.
Would not recommend.
If you're really trying to study the word, you're going through it in a whole month.
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em I was able to read the whole thing in a month and what I did pick up, em I was like,okay, like this is like real and it's like, there's also this tangible comfort I was
feeling like when I was reading the word, like em when I was like just hurting, like Icould read the word and even if I didn't know what I was really reading, like I just felt
the comfort.
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em So I was like, okay, there's like some more, there's something to this, right?
That's different than like your self-help books.
Exactly.
exactly.
I mean, the issue with self-help is it relies on yourself, right?
I had gotten myself into this mess that I was in, right?
So like, why would I rely on myself to get myself out of the mess?
(21:02):
um But yeah, so to continue the story, I guess I had a tremendous amount of growth, Iwould say, like in the first six to eight months.
like I did not.
uh I started going to the church on base, which was good, but it was very, um I don'tknow, it may have been me too, but I didn't like seek community.
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That was something that I did not prioritize or really understand the importance of it.
And with that, I was able to um like kind of take a step back and kind of sit idle for awhile because nobody
knew I was there to begin with, right?
I hadn't put myself out there, right?
I sure I was the guy that showed up to church a few times and then kind of stopped goingfor a while.
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you know, a lot of people probably didn't think any different, but um I sat idle for likea while there.
then, um but there it was different, right?
And there was like this conviction of like, you know, I've like made this choice.
Why are you sitting idle?
Like, and then um like around this time, like I met my wife and um
(22:15):
She was just different.
She was just so different.
em I was like, OK, I have this desire to walk this way.
And I need to just jump in with both feet.
And that was when I really started taking it seriously.
Right.
And when you say like the six month period, your faith really started to grow.
(22:38):
What did that look like practically?
Yeah, so it was a lot of reading, a lot of reading scripture, em a lot of like worshipmusic too, also.
Like, em it was just something that was easy for me to to bite off and chew.
And I don't know, like, if anybody else feels this way, maybe I'm just weird, butpre-Salvation, I had like almost like an ick to like gospel type music.
(23:05):
Like, it was just something that just like didn't sit right with me.
And I think...
It's because I was set, it was attested to where my heart was.
It was just like, I don't know.
I don't know if I'm gonna be that guy standing there with my hands in the, I don't know.
It just didn't sit right, to be honest.
And something changed when I came to Christ, where I was like, this is all I wanna listento.
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Now it's something that is, it's ingrained in me where I want to listen to, and it givesme comfort.
I'm hearing things and I'm,
hearing like truth through the music that I'm like, I needed at that time.
So there was a lot of that.
And I had some good friends too that um the nature of the military is people come and goand they move all over the place.
(23:52):
But um during that time, I did have some great friends that were solid and poured into meand spoke truth and spoke the word into my life that was really life-changing.
So that was that timeframe of that six months where I had the music and I had the Bibleand I had people speaking into my life.
(24:15):
It was good.
I think that's really encouraging too, because once someone does become saved, they'rekind of left with, okay, well, what now?
And I think that there are some churches that do a really good job of leading and guidingyou with those next steps.
But I guess I would ask the question, what would be a couple of things that you think isreally important?
(24:36):
I know you mentioned community, but is there anything else that a new believer can do thatway they're on the right track?
that's a good question.
For sure, community can't emphasize that strongly enough.
Put good people in your corner that are going to encourage you and honestly speak intoyour life if you start to drift and you start to wander.
(24:57):
It's so important to have somebody that is willing to love you enough to say, hey, I loveyou.
I'm not judging you here.
But what are we doing?
What are we doing?
And why are we walking down this path?
Because we're still going to feel that temptation to turn, you know, em and it's importantto have people in your life like that.
(25:18):
Another thing, em I think there's a, at least for me, there was an intimidation of, I haveto do all of these things now, right?
I have to do all of these things.
I have this commitment of going to church even just once a week was a lot for me when it'snot something that's ingrained in...
in your daily habit pattern, it's easy to just be like, ah, like that's a little too much,you know, because our priorities are still out of whack, right?
(25:48):
um So I would say like, don't, excuse me, don't feel like very, don't feel like you haveto do anything as a Christian, right?
That is like one of the things that is going to bring about just like exhaustion andfeeling run down, feeling like you aren't enough.
Well, you're not enough.
And
It's when you let go and you start letting the Lord work through your life, right?
(26:12):
Is when the things don't feel like work anymore, right?
So don't get too caught up in the obligations that so often I think people get hung up onbecause the Lord is going to do what the Lord is going to do.
And when it comes to that, it is a joy to go to church, right?
(26:32):
And if you don't feel that way, like...
take it to the Lord, like take those hard things to Him and pray about it and seek wisdomon it.
And like those are the prayers that He just loves to answer, right?
It's like just working through you in that.
So I don't know if that makes any sense.
How would you say someone could share their faith in the military but also doing it withinthe guidelines of the AFI?
(27:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Well, I think just in general, em it just comes down to being like willing to talk aboutthe Lord.
Like, I was reading this book the other day that...
What did it say?
It was something to the tune of like, the reason that I am afraid to share about my faithand afraid to share the gospel is because...
(27:28):
my fear of the Lord has shrunk so much and my fear of man has grown so much.
So it's like when I feel that way, and not that I am by any means the standard of sharingthe gospel, ah but when you are afraid of what people think of you more than what you're
(27:51):
afraid of, our Lord and Savior thinks of you, right?
It produces this lack of boldness.
eh
that I think I certainly struggle with.
I know a lot of other people do.
em But I think just recently being more confident to just talk about little things first,too.
(28:12):
When somebody asks how your weekend was, don't be afraid to share about what happened atchurch.
If anything, it's just planting little seeds.
Like, OK, this guy goes to church and...
And maybe that like something that small would just be like a conversation starter forsomething later.
And then praying for opportunities to have to share the gospel.
(28:37):
And this is just like in general, I think it does become more complicated in a worksetting, especially if you are in like a leadership role, right?
Because there is this perception of like, okay, like if I'm in a leadership role, mysubordinates and blah, blah, like, am I forcing it on them?
But we're never in the wrong for just talking about life.
(28:59):
Right.
Right.
So I think that's just one thing to remember is like you're never just in the wrong totalk about life.
Right.
um So you can always and usually when you talk about life.
Right.
Especially if there's any depth to it there's going to be like some hurt there.
And em when you get to that hurt.
Right.
We are to be prepared to you know have a have a reason for the hope that we have.
(29:23):
Right.
So I think that is like the biggest thing is like, well, not the biggest thing, but it'sbeen helpful for me to be praying for opportunities as well as just like knowing that
there's uh always going to be an opportunity if I'm willing to walk through the door.
Yeah.
And I think something that you brought up that's really good is, you know, asking the Lordfor help because without fail, every time that I've, I've prayed and said, Hey Lord, let
(29:52):
me have an opportunity where I can love someone or I can pray for someone.
Yeah.
Without fail, there's always been some, not going to lie, there's some times where I'veheard that little voice.
It's not like he's going to speak to you.
m Hey, do this.
It might be that little tug on your heart.
I think it's really important to listen to that.
Like I said, I'm not the best at it, but definitely listening to that when it happens.
(30:16):
And another thing to kind of touch on here recently, I had an interaction with someonewhere I really felt like the Lord was telling me, like, like you need to talk about this
sin that's in someone's life.
And it took me about a whole day to do it.
And then I texted them and I was just saying like, hey, like, I don't judge you.
(30:37):
Yeah.
You know, and you know, this is what the Bible says.
Right.
And after that, you know, I don't want to go into like how it was taken, but for me, afterthe fact, I still felt a little uncomfortable about it.
know, but I realize that sometimes the truth ah isn't the most comfortable thing.
(31:00):
So I think that, like you said, having people in your life that can speak truth into yourlife, I think, you know,
If you do that and you don't feel the greatest afterwards, I don't think it means thatanything is wrong.
I just think that sometimes it's just difficult to do that and that conflict is difficult.
But at the end of the day, the best thing that you can do is tell someone the truth.
(31:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, this is another like cultural thing, like just like associating good person withChristian.
And when we're doing that, people feel attacked, like you're attacking them because you'recalling them out.
But like, it is, it is uncomfortable.
But like, how much more unloving is it to just let them fester in that, right?
(31:43):
If you see somebody like walking towards a cliff that's blindfolded and doesn't see what'scoming from them, why would you not want to like aggressively like
yell, please turn away from this cliff.
Like that is a loving thing to do.
But even if the immediate reaction is not what we would want, right?
It's important to remember that like we're working for the Lord and you know, whether ornot we see the fruit of that interaction, like doesn't change that we are still like
(32:11):
called to be obedient, you know, in that.
But yeah, man, it is a constant struggle and it's a constant battle of just wanting to
you know, just like keep the peace.
I'm not big on conflict.
you know, it's easy to just walk away from that stuff.
There's a saying that a friend of mine told me, and it basically, was this, I think it wasan atheist, and said, how can you hate someone so much if what the Bible says is true,
(32:38):
that someone will go to hell?
Why would you not tell them?
Why is there more people not telling people about the gospel?
And I thought about that and I was like, wow.
Because like you said, if you saw someone being blindfolded going for a cliff, obviouslyyou would save them.
So, I mean, it's just, it's the same thing, know, whenever one day, you know,
Mm-hmm.
(32:58):
We will be judged.
oh
and I think a lot of people are they are in a position where they have either falseassurance em because they've said a prayer, em you know, and that is like a really hard
(33:19):
person to try to speak truth into because if they think that they're good, but they're notlike the cultural Christian, you know, who thinks that
that works is the way to heaven, right?
It's like, well, I think back in my life, I've done pretty good.
I've gone to church.
I've given to charity.
None of those works are going to save you.
(33:40):
And that's so important.
And I think we miss it as a whole country, in so many different ways of, in a world,really, of my works is what is saving me.
And if that's the case, our works are dirty rags, the Lord says.
So it's like, you know.
Yeah, definitely.
(34:01):
So, let's say there's an airman at a different duty station.
They're a believer.
How do you think that they can start a Bible study or start a life group?
And the reason I ask that is because the life group that I was a part of with youimmediately from the start just flourished in the hearts of you and Ashlyn.
(34:24):
uh We're just very genuine, very welcoming.
What would be some, like a roadmap for someone that wants to get that community thatyou're talking about?
Yeah, I think um that's a good question.
I mean, I think there's a lot of different ways you could do it.
um You know, like, like anything, I think it should be spirit led.
(34:47):
think you should spend some time like praying and like seeking the Lord about it on the,on the front half and be like, Lord, like what, does obedience in this area in this season
right now, like look like, right.
And if you were like, let's say just in a dorm, right.
And
And maybe you don't have access to a vehicle.
Maybe you can't even go to church because you don't have access to a vehicle to drive the30 minutes to the church or, you know, on base isn't meeting because of COVID or whatever
(35:15):
the situation is right now.
we can still like pray and think about like, what does it look like to be obedient rightnow?
And it doesn't have to be anything more than just like starting a small Bible study with,within the members of the dorm.
right?
And some people will show and some people won't, and that's fine, right?
(35:36):
But I think just being and having the Spirit lead you where you want or where the Spiritwants to take the Bible study is the most important thing.
That and just the Word is, I think, with us, we've tried to focus more on getting peopleto love the Word.
(35:58):
Right?
Like, what does it look like to love, to study God's Word?
Like, it is so rich and there's like so much depth there.
That like draws people in and like it's applicable and um it's helpful to these living inthis broken world.
we...
um Yeah, I don't know.
(36:19):
I was like rambling here, but I would say, just like be Spirit-led and like focus on theWord.
more than anything else, right?
And getting to know people.
And I think when you step out in faith, I mean, it's going to be uncomfortable, like withanything, you know, with working out.
It's definitely going to be uncomfortable at first, but most important thing is just beingfaithful to what you feel like the Lord's got for you.
(36:44):
And one thing I can definitely attest to too, uh if the Lord is put something on yourheart, He will be there every step of the way.
Provide.
um So you just got to take that leap of faith for sure.
Yeah.
He's not going to call you.
He does not.
What is the phrase?
He's not going to equip you before you're called, right?
(37:08):
He's going to call you and then equip you.
Right.
So, um, don't feel like, mean, even me, like I'm, I would have never guessed I'd be likeleading a life group right now.
Right.
I did not feel like I have the wisdom, the know-how.
did not grow up in church.
I didn't know what a wanna was until like,
a year or two ago, and I was like, oh, that's, know, just didn't know anything, right?
(37:34):
Because I didn't, I didn't grow up in the church.
And like to have gone to my first Bible study in 2019 and now to be the leading one, likeI never would have guessed that.
like the Lord just has has been there and he's provided for that.
And one thing that I've noticed that you do really well is you take every opportunity youcan to serve.
(37:59):
How important is that and how rewarding is that whenever you're not so much focused onyourself, but you're focused on others, especially within your church.
it's good.
Jesus will say it is greater to serve than to be served.
And I have felt that.
I have wanted to be served my whole life because I think I'm just inherently selfish.
(38:20):
But there is joy I get from serving and helping.
And it's not always in the moment.
there's few things as rewarding as just being able to be there and be present and helppeople.
em And I think that's just something that the Lord has really worked on me in particular.
(38:42):
em Just being involved in different ministries at the church I'm at right now has beensuper rewarding.
em And yeah, when you step up and the Lord, he will bless that.
And you also get to meet people, right?
If you don't feel plugged in in your church, I would ask, are you serving?
(39:04):
Because if you show up
and you attend the service and you leave, how many people are you really getting to know?
If you're serving and you're spending time alongside people, that's when I've found thatI've like, okay, now I'm growing relationships.
And that is, I think, the heart of community of just getting to know the people and doinglife with them.
(39:27):
And I think a lot of that comes with service.
And I've definitely fallen into the trap too, especially with, you know, PCSing.
This is my fourth duty station, right?
So when you go to a new base and then you were trying to find a church, I would fall intothe trap of going into service, you know, sitting by myself and then like no one talking
(39:48):
to me and then I just leave.
But I feel like that's not the right attitude to have.
I feel like you really got to put yourself out there like you're saying.
um Because yes, there's going to be those churches that are very welcoming and are goingto get you connected.
but still do your part.
If you really don't feel like the Lord's calling you to that church, try a differentthing.
And the youth pastor put it well.
(40:09):
He just said, use your spiritual gifts.
You can do a spiritual gifts test to say, uh this is stuff I'm already naturally good at,um and just try it out.
And if you don't like it, you can move on.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And there's always going to be a need somewhere, right, where you're going to fit in.
So yeah.
(40:29):
Yeah.
That's so good.
So with all the stress that we go through as military members, one thing that I've noticedis that there's a lot of stuff that we don't see that people are dealing with, whether
that be a death in the family.
I guess my question is, how can we rely on God when it's a lot easier just to rely ondrinking or just going out having sex, stuff that doesn't lead to anything good?
(40:57):
How can we rely on
Yeah, that's good.
I think, I mean, the biggest thing is, right, you just have to let him do what he doesbest, right?
If you are shutting him out, right?
I want to be careful I phrase this in a way that I'm not saying God can't, right?
(41:17):
Because God can do whatever God is going to do.
But if with our part in it, right, and inviting the Lord into our life and like trustinghim and relying on him.
If we are not doing that, think it's easy to tell based on what sort of fulfillment we'refeeling.
em With struggles are going to come just pain.
(41:43):
And I'm not going to try to minimize or dismiss and say that as a Christian, you're notgoing to feel pain and you're not going to have struggles.
But uh I think
another, an understanding of the like, what joy is.
Like, what is, what is joy?
Can we be sad, right, about the death of a family member, but still have joy?
(42:07):
Right?
And the answer to that is absolutely right.
And it comes from, right, the relationship we have with the Lord and like the depth ofthat relationship and also the assurance we have of where we're going.
em as far as like tangible, practical advice, like
I would encourage anyone just to take those tough things like to the Lord, maybe evenlike, you know, seeking wisdom, like find a mentor who has maybe walked through something
(42:34):
who's wiser than you.
Like, I think that's something we miss a lot is uh do we have anybody in our life that isolder, wiser, and has maybe walked through something that we're walking through right now
em that is able to speak truth into our life, right?
em
And I would say that this should not be, it could be family maybe, but I don't think itshould be a spouse, right?
(43:03):
There should be somebody outside of your marriage and outside of like kind of maybe notyour circle, right?
But somebody who's able to, who knows you and can speak into your life.
um For me, I happened to find um somebody just at my last job.
was, he was, uh
a chief master sergeant and I just was listening to him talk.
(43:25):
I'm like, this guy, this guy knows the word.
Like I don't even know where he goes to church or anything, but I'm just listening to himtalk and my ears are picking up.
I'm like, this guy knows the word like so well.
Yeah.
So I went and I just cornered him in his office super awkwardly one day and I was like, Iasked him to mentor me.
And I said like, will you just take some time?
(43:46):
Like, I don't know what it looks like.
I'm not trying to put anything on your plate, but like, would you be willing to likementor me?
Not about anything in particular, but and he did and he's we've met like until he PCS wemet like weekly and em like I was just able to just sit like under his teaching.
Like he's an older man that like was just willing to just take some time and just teachme.
So I mean long answer to your question, but one like rely on the Lord and to like findsomebody else also who is wise and is going to speak truth in your life.
(44:19):
Definitely.
And I think that's something that if that's if you feel like something if that's tuggingon your heart to do that and just definitely do it because I'm not gonna say I'm gonna
guarantee but I almost guarantee that if you find like an elder in the church or someoneabove you and you ask them to mentor you they're going to want to do that.
Yeah, if anybody came up to me, you I'm pretty positive that that someone wants to helpand just such a great relationship can can happen from that.
(44:46):
I think kind of want to dive in just
little bit.
uh Kind of something that I went through and I know that there's some people that I knowthat are kind of struggling with loneliness right now.
Especially with you know being single and being at your duty station.
um What do you think would be a way for someone to look for that spouse?
What would you say would be some things that they should be looking for?
(45:13):
Yeah, the thing that comes to my mind like right away is that we should be equally yoked.
If we are, if we are seeking marriage, right, in a Christian context, first of all, like Idon't even know how to explain marriage outside of a Christian context.
Like if we go by the worldly standards, there's so many things out there.
(45:34):
Like I don't even know where to start.
So
We're talking like within a Christian context here.
And with that, like we should be equally yoked.
I used to misinterpret this and think that this meant we are at an equal level ofspiritual maturity.
But that's not necessarily the case.
(45:55):
My wife is, was, and is still, and probably will remain for a while, I hope.
way more spiritually wise than I am.
And she's grown up in the church and she's been around, bound in her whole life.
um But so I was like, are we equally young?
Because I'm like this new believer.
Like, I don't know.
(46:16):
But you have to have something in your marriage that you're chasing after together.
Right.
And um when God created marriage and you have man and a woman, like the point of thatmarriage, right, is
to glorify the Lord, it's also, right, should be a reflection of Christ's em relationshipto the church.
(46:38):
So, um practically converting that into, what does that look like?
Find somebody who um is on the same page about what you believe, right?
And ask those hard questions.
And em not that it's a gotcha, or I'm trying to trick you and see if you're good enough,or if you know enough.
(47:01):
Right?
But asking those questions that are going to reveal like what their heart is towards theirfaith.
Is it a check the box and move on?
em Is it a like workspace faith?
Like figure out where they're at and em if it's not where you're at, that doesn'tnecessarily mean cut it off right away.
(47:23):
em But seek wisdom on it and let the spirit lead you as well as like
If they are off a path, maybe, right?
And they're not willing to see that wisdom on their own and be like, maybe I'm notthinking about things correctly, or maybe I have some misunderstandings.
If they're not humble in that sense, like, it is probably time to move on, right?
(47:46):
em You know, and that's not nothing bad, but we don't want to find ourselves in a marriagefive years down the road where we have kids and we're trying to explain the gospel and we
have a totally different understanding of what the gospel is.
I think that's good that you brought that up too, because that actually got brought up ina small group recently.
And they said, well, what if we're not equally yoked?
(48:07):
And our pastor basically said, are both of these individuals following after Christ?
they believed?
Are they saved?
And they are equally yoked.
Because sanctification is a process that lasts a lifetime.
And you're never going to be good enough to strive to be like Jesus.
Yeah, absolutely.
(48:28):
Yeah, that's good.
So yeah, definitely equally yolk.
Would you say there would be anything else to kind of would be something they should lookfor?
Yeah, I don't know.
think listen to those people once again that are in your circle and invite this personaround.
And em those people that are in your community group or your life group or whatever, evenjust your close friends that you know, let them speak into, this a good thing for me or
(48:58):
not?
Because the heart is deceitful, above all things, especially in a relationship.
I think it's so easy to just get like, oh, they're great and they may be, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean they're great for you.
But it may be very clear to everyone on the outside.
I think em just having good people in your circle who have your best interest in mind andare willing to have those hard conversations would be good.
(49:27):
Awesome.
In closing, why should someone follow Jesus?
I mean, this is the most important question anybody's ever going to ask about themselves,right?
Yeah, there's a temptation for me to focus on the goodness in my life that has come fromit.
(49:47):
em There's so many good things, lowercase g and uppercase g, that have just been a resultof, you know, trusting in the Lord.
things like just making friends and um routine and um hearing a message on Sunday morningthat is encouraging.
(50:11):
And those are good things, but they are completely missing like the absolute um biggestneed I have of there being this uh spiritual hole in my life before Jesus.
Right.
It was a
God's eyes hole, that is the phrase that I was trying to fill with everything else.
(50:33):
And I think so many people fall into em that habit pattern, like you said, of the drinkingand partying and doing whatever you wanted to do to try to find that joy.
em for me, entering in a relationship with the Lord, uh that is the only thing that hasbrought me true fulfillment.
(50:55):
em
you know, with that, I like, I don't know what I would, what I'd be doing.
And even, you know, like looking into like afterlife, like, you know, I know confidently,like where I'm going now.
And a lot of people don't.
And it's a question you should, you should for sure answer while you're on earth, youknow, like, you don't want to get to the end of it and going, ah, I wish I were taking
(51:22):
that more seriously.
But.
Yeah, I don't know.
This is a hard question to answer and also the easiest question in the world to answer.
Like it is brought in a lot of like good things to me that have been good, but the biggestthing is it has filled this God-shaped hole in my heart, in my life where I was seeking
(51:44):
after everything but the Lord.
And then in filling that I feel and em there is like...
God's design for us was to be Him to be in and amongst it.
And when we are separated from it, just like when you separate engine oil from a vehicleand make it run without, it is not going to work.
(52:07):
It may run for a little while, but it's going to be rough.
And then things are going to break down.
you pour ketchup in there and that's going to work for a little bit.
It is only like one thing that that engine was designed for, right?
And it was designed to run with engine oil and without it, it's never going to be workingright.
(52:28):
So like, don't want to make this all about how I feel, but like that is a tangible thingthat when you are in a relationship with the Lord, that it is just, you know, and it just
answers a lot of questions too, right?
We live in this world of not knowing so much, but if you are a Christian, we have so manyanswers.
(52:54):
All of a sudden we can tell you why the world is the way it is, what is going to happen,and why it's going to happen.
So there's a lot of rambling, but hopefully that's...
Yeah, that's an encouragement.
I think just that hope that you know where you're going.
I think that's really key, especially within our line of work, you know, the dangers thatcomes along with military members and first responders.
(53:21):
There is definitely security in knowing where we're at and hope that way.
know, even if you're going through something really rough, you know, at the end of theday, you know, this life that we live on Earth is not
It's not the end.
Yeah, yeah, it really does provide a frame of reference for, these things that I'm goingthrough here are, they are temporary, right, and the Bible says that, you know, I'm going
(53:48):
to misquote it here, but it's like, it is nothing.
Like, the sufferings that we endure now are like nothing compared to the future glory,right, which...
Like, I don't want to minimize what anybody would be going through.
That's not the intent of that.
But even the most unimaginable suffering that we would experience here on earth, right?
(54:08):
Like, we can trust that the future glories would just so completely outweigh anything thatyou could experience on earth.
And we can confidently say that based on, you know, knowing that, like, the Lord camedown, like, lived the perfect life, you know, died.
(54:28):
was resurrected three days later and defeated death so that you and I can share in that.
um
yeah, I love that.
Well, I've had a blast talking with you.
I know it takes a lot to come on a podcast and just share your wisdom and just beingvulnerable.
So I really do appreciate that and definitely look forward to having you on again.
(54:51):
again for listening to another episode of Faith in the Line of Duty.
If you're a first responder or in the military and have a story you'd like to share, emailme at faithinthelineofduty at gmail.com.
You could be a guest on a future episode.
To continue the conversation, visit my Facebook and Instagram page.
Thanks again for tuning in, and join me next time for another encouraging story of faithin the line of duty.
I hit a point where I was just in this awful pit of self-identity.
And I just remember driving one night and being like, I am far from the Lord right now.
I have not invited him into my life, and he has pursued me.
I can feel him pursuing me, but I have not invited him into my life.
(00:24):
And I remember just pulling over the side of the road and just like...
accepting Christ at that moment and being like, I don't know what this looks like, but Ijust know that where I'm at without the Lord is not a good place.
you
(00:46):
Welcome to Faith in the Line of Duty, a podcast where real people in uniform show howtheir faith in Christ has carried them through the toughest moments.
I'm Daniel Johnson, husband, father, and currently active duty in the United States AirForce.
Each episode I sit down with military members and first responders to talk about the powerof the gospel, the strength of community, and how faith transforms lives, even in the line
(01:09):
of duty.
The views expressed in this podcast are those of the host and do not constituteendorsement by the Department of Defense, Department of the Air Force, or the U.S.
government.
Now here's your host, Daniel Johnson.
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Faith in the Line of Duty.
(01:30):
Today I have the honor of introducing Ryan Jacobs.
He's a good friend of mine.
We're just glad to have you on today.
Yeah, so let's just start off by just telling us what your childhood was like.
Yeah, so I grew up on the West Coast.
I had a good childhood.
Grew up in a family that was very supportive.
(01:52):
I was always involved in a little bit of everything.
So especially with sports, that's the biggest thing that sticks out.
I was involved in soccer, wrestling, track, swimming, water polo.
I got into competitive rifle shooting for a number of years, did go-kart racing.
So it was like,
Every weekend it felt like we had something so grew up doing a lot of hobbies Spent a lotof time outside My dad introduced me into elk hunting and I got into that at a young age
(02:22):
and then yeah went to went to school after that and wound up joining the Air Force no Trapshooting so I was doing like Olympic style rifle is like the
the sport that I got into the most.
I remember doing trap shooting in high school and that was a lot of fun.
(02:44):
And it was weird kind of looking back now.
It's like you just brought your shotgun in your car to work.
You can't roll up to the back of the building and turn your shotgun in.
It just wouldn't work today.
And traps like applicable.
feel like right you can go like bird hunting like precision rifle like I don't know likemaybe for really long-range stuff helpful, but
(03:07):
What was your favorite sport?
The one I definitely dedicated the most to was the rifle shooting.
I don't know about favorite.
As far as just pure adrenaline, it's hard to beat a real aggressive water polo match.
Being in high school and having just the screaming of being inside of a pool where all thesounds are echoing and stuff, that was always really fun.
(03:34):
Not um huge.
I want to say we graduated maybe like four to five hundred people or so.
See, when I hear that, I grew up in a class.
It was 43 people.
Yeah.
OK.
In the same building, we had kindergarten through 12th grade.
you knew everybody.
(03:54):
Ever since I was there from fifth grade, I just knew everybody there.
I always think about how that would be so much different growing up in a big school.
Yeah, I mean, there was so many people I just didn't know, you know, growing up.
Why do you decide the Air Force over other branches?
Yeah, so um well, one, I knew I didn't want to be on a boat.
(04:15):
So that ruled out the Navy.
Didn't want to be on a boat for six months.
I like going fishing on my time.
But as far as being stuck uh on an aircraft carrier, I wasn't super interested in that.
So um as far as recruiting technique, I'd say air shows worked pretty good for me.
So airplanes have just always been real cool.
m I went and I saw the Blue Angels, ironically.
(04:38):
Didn't decide to join the Navy after seeing the Blue Angels.
because of the boats.
I was like, well, if I want to be in and around airplanes and, you know, just like seemslike the Air Force, if I'm attracted airplanes is a good place to be.
So, yeah, my dad took me to an air show and I asked him, said, what do I need to do inorder to be around airplanes?
(05:01):
And he said, you know, go to the Air Force.
So here I am.
I have lot of good memories from air shows too.
Mm-hmm.
It was definitely kind of Definitely a big part of the decision So did you you do fouryears of college then you joined after that yeah
years of college and then I got my commission.
(05:21):
em And then, yeah, I've been in the Air Force ever since.
And looking back at your childhood, what would you say would be your most memorablemoment?
That's such a good question.
Yeah, honestly, most memorable would probably have been going elk hunting with my dadgrowing up.
(05:42):
um There was such a buildup to it.
um In Oregon, you m can't hunt until you're at least 12 years old.
So I became aware that I was interested in this five or six or whatever.
It was like, well, I got one more year, one more year, one more year.
(06:02):
So by the time you're 12, I was just like chomping at the bit.
And where we went, um, was not a good, like it was probably not a great place to start asfar as like just how challenging it was going to be.
Um, the harvest rates there were really, really low.
Um, and it was a, a really short season.
So it was only three days long, um, for you to shoot like a bull elk with a rifle, but.
(06:27):
ah Everyone's out there.
everyone's out there.
It's public land.
Um, and the terrain is just so dense.
Like you can only see, you might as well use a bow cause like you can see only see 30yards, but I had a rifle and, so we, I remember we woke up and we went up the mountain and
it was like just pouring rain, like not great weather to start in.
(06:51):
And I was not dressed well, but it was soaking us.
was probably November and, uh, we get up there and
Um, I'd sat for maybe, I don't know, 30, 45 minutes on my opening morning.
And like, I couldn't believe it, but like here's this bull elk that comes rolling in.
(07:11):
And I didn't see it initially.
My dad's talking.
He's like, I think I hear something coming.
All I hear is the rain.
He's like, okay, no, something's definitely coming.
And, uh, he's like, okay, I see it.
It's an elk.
I don't know if it's a bull or a cow yet.
And, uh, um, I'm still like, you know, lost, no idea.
where the elk is and then he steps out of this tree like right in front of me.
(07:32):
And he just kind of stood there looking at us and my dad's like, well, you better, youbetter shoot or it's going to step on us.
Cause he was that close.
was like right there.
So I was able to get the elk and like just after all the buildup of like just wanting togo for so many years and then, you know, the harvest rate probably being like, it was,
don't know, probably like five to 10%.
(07:53):
that year of like people that were successful in getting an elk and just to be able tohave it like that opening morning and share that experience with my dad was just so cool.
Man, what a blessing.
Yeah.
I'm sure you had a lot of adrenaline too.
Yeah.
I would have, I have never gone hunting, but I'm sure I'd have been like shaking.
yeah.
The shakes pretty bad.
Thankfully, I was sitting down.
I was able to kind of rest it on my knee.
(08:14):
And the elk was like, I mean, we must have been sub 20 yards.
it was a big target.
I know you said you were big into hunting.
What was the first animal that you killed?
So that would have been that elk.
Oh, was that elk.
Yeah.
So I mean, I probably had some poor releases on a fish that didn't make it or something.
(08:35):
But yeah, that would have been the first one.
I didn't really get to go too much.
We went a little bit after that.
But I became more and more involved with the extracurriculars of all the sports in highschool.
So that made our weekends get shorter and shorter.
Yeah, so I didn't really pick it up until much later when I was stationed down in Texas.
(09:01):
It was kind of when I picked it back up again.
And I definitely want to take my son to do hunting and my daughter too if she wants to.
what did your dad tell you before you went out there?
I you said he was very supportive, but did he prepare you to be killing an animal for aspecific purpose?
Yeah, a little bit.
em It's hard to remember.
(09:21):
It's been a while, but there has always been a reverence and a respect for the game.
em You are taking a life.
So I remember him talking about, OK, when we go out into the range, we're going topractice shooting before.
It's not to just hope we hit what we're aiming at.
(09:42):
There's a respect there of, we're going to put the time in on the front end.
to make sure you're shooting well enough that when the time comes and opportunity andthings are always going to happen.
But um if we can do our part on the front in the preparation in order to make sure thatlike we have a good chance at an ethical kill, that was important.
So that's been something I've carried with me.
(10:04):
So I'll definitely use that if I do end up going ahead of course I need to learn a lot ofother stuff, too So what is your experience been like in the Air Force?
How long have you been in now?
So I've been in, I commissioned in 2017, so it's 2025 now, so I guess, yeah, eight years.
So it's been good.
I've had the opportunity to work a lot of different jobs that I wasn't really expecting.
(10:28):
yeah, so I started off in Texas and then, yeah, I'm in a different location now, butthere's just been a lot of opportunities I've been able to work.
Some of them I've really, really enjoyed.
Working with people has always been good.
Others have been less enjoyable.
But my favorite has always been when I've been able to work and lead people in a way that,you know, get to know them and get to see their desires and be able to do things from a
(11:02):
leadership position that allows people to have opportunities has been...
for sure the most rewarding thing.
That and just seeing progress too.
Just being able to be in an environment where people start at a certain level ofproficiency and you get to work with them, teach them and coach them and by the end
they're doing things that they did not think they were gonna be able to do.
So that has just been super encouraging um and I've loved it.
(11:25):
And one thing I've noticed about you too is like you're just a naturally gifted person atteaching.
A lot of the stuff that you've taught me when it comes to you know, following Christ ordifferent other things that we're passionate about, like you're just good at explaining
things, just comes very, very natural for you.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, I think I've had some really good teachers myself.
(11:45):
And em there's been some that I've really resonated with.
I think that just the way that they explain things has been, this is definitely not my owndesign, but I have pulled from eh other people's techniques and just how to break things
down.
I've had a lot of good coaches on my end.
And think that's also very rewarding, in the job that I am.
(12:07):
As K9, you get a brand new team out of tech school.
They get a brand new dog.
And you just get to see them progress.
And the stuff that they used to do before, uh let's say if we fast forward a year later,if they were to look back at what they've done before, it's just a complete difference.
then they get validated and certified, and you can just see that they just feelaccomplished.
(12:30):
Super cool.
Yeah.
So a lot of people see men and women in the uniform, and they know that they go ondeployments.
They know that they serve.
But what are some unseen things that people usually don't see that members in the militaryor the Air Force go through?
Yeah, unseen things.
em Yeah, just in general, I would say like you there's a lot of.
(12:57):
In front of the scenes, things that get seen right, we get I mean, whether we're in a bigconflict or not um deployments and um there's a lot of like media presence like around
those.
You don't see like all of the training on like the back half um and you don't see like.
the details of not just what it takes to be in a large scale conflict and all of thelogistics involved in that, but the intricacies of each one of those people and all of the
(13:28):
stuff that they're dealing with as well.
It's been very interesting.
You view it from the outside, this well-oiled machine.
And to an extent, is and can be.
But life is also very messy.
And I think that's where like, eh
That's where when you put on the clean uniform and people see that, there's a certainassumption with the way things are em about that person.
(13:53):
But as I've been in it, we know that we live in this broken world.
people are still doing their best and showing up.
eh But there's still brokenness.
so like.
oh
that unseen struggle of, that's where I think having great leaders who take the time toget to know their people is so important.
(14:15):
Because if you get to know somebody, not just on a how well do they do their job, but awhat do they look like when they're having a bad day level, and you can see that, that I
think is where the unseen, if you can be the person that sees that, that is where you aregonna thrive as a leader.
And I think something that I've tried to do is try to find people's why.
(14:39):
know you kind of hear that a lot, but there are people that are really good at finding,what makes this person tick?
How do they learn?
How do they feel like they're contributing to the mission?
And I think that's really important.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's like, that's what gets people excited, right?
In helping somebody find their why, you know, is awesome too.
(15:00):
I've seen that.
I've seen other people like that I've been working with and their why did not line up withtheir current career.
And it was like, okay, well, this may have been your absolute dream job when you werelittle, but the why is now not matching up.
So let's like put you in a different place.
And then they thrive, right?
Just because it was somebody else's dream.
(15:20):
And you know, that's...
That's how I think people can feel trapped is like if you're like your why doesn't line upwith your career.
You know, so that's good.
So did you grow up in
No, I did not.
um I would say we went a little bit.
I was definitely introduced to church while I was growing up.
(15:41):
There was a season where we were consistent, um but it kind faded, and I don't really knowwhy, but it kind of turned into every weekend, every other weekend, once a month.
We'd um go on Easter and Christmas and then kind of just faded after that.
Gotcha.
So at what point did uh you follow Christ?
(16:04):
Yeah.
So I was down in Texas, this would have been like 2019 for me.
So I'm like well past college, two years graduate after college at this point.
And yeah, I don't know.
I had really kind of like found the end of myself at that point.
(16:24):
I would have said I was a Christian growing up.
There's like this interesting
I think especially in the United States, this interesting connection between a good personand a Christian.
for me, like I deeply related to this, this, this connection between good person andChristian is as believers, we know that that is not right.
(16:52):
Like a good person and a Christian, those are not good.
Like, I'm kind of stumbling over my words here, but my point is I was reading this bookand he was talking about
how these two things that are not exclusive got joined together to the point where it isnow offensive if you consider yourself a good person and you know that a good person is a
(17:14):
Christian, but you're really not following Christ to get sucked into this belief that youare a Christian because you are a good person.
So like, I think for me, like, it was really hard to break apart, like,
good person and Christian.
like, sure, maybe by like worldly standards, maybe by like, you know, taking the averageperson like, sure, I would say like, I did some good things, but I was not like a good
(17:40):
person.
We know there, you know, Romans says that there is no one that is good.
So all of that rambling to say that I had this deep rooted identity in that being aChristian meant being a good person.
And if I was to admit that I was not a Christian,
I was admitting I was not a good person.
So that was a big struggle for me.
But I hit a point right in 2019 where I kind of had to look at my life.
(18:06):
I had this long-term relationship that I was in that I thought was going really well.
It ended abruptly.
And for some reasons that I was kind of like shocked about and it required me to likereflect and look at myself a little bit and go, well, yeah, like there's some issues here.
And what I'm saying about myself,
is in like being a Christian, because I would aggressively defend that I was a Christianand believer at that point, but I hadn't gone to church in five years.
(18:32):
em And not to say that you can't be a Christian and have not go to church.
That's not what I'm saying.
But if that is a consistent habit pattern, right, where you don't find a need or desire togo to church, I think it's valid to take a look at whether your salvation is genuine at
that point.
So I hit a point where I was just in this like awful pit.
(18:54):
of self-identity.
I just remember driving one night and being like, I am far from the Lord right now.
I have not invited him into my life, and he has pursued me.
I can feel him pursuing me, but I have not invited him into my life.
(19:15):
And I remember just pulling over the side of the road and just accepting Christ at thatmoment and being like, I don't know.
what this looks like, but I just know that where I'm at, like without the Lord is not agood place.
Right.
So at that point, like I accepted Christ, but my theology was all over the place.
(19:37):
I didn't know anything about anything, but you don't need theology to accept Christ.
Right.
That is the starting point.
That's what's so beautiful about it.
So um at that point I'm like, well, now I have this desire to learn.
So I remember I read the whole Bible in a month.
Like, I just sat down and I had this, like, as I was going through this breakup, like, Iwas not in a good place.
(19:58):
And I couldn't sleep at night, you know?
And um I'm like, well, if I'm not able to sleep, I might as well, like, pick up the word.
So I just started Genesis.
And I just power through it.
And I just, OK, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, like, just all the way through it.
And I read the whole thing.
And comprehension, very low.
Would not recommend.
If you're really trying to study the word, you're going through it in a whole month.
(20:21):
em I was able to read the whole thing in a month and what I did pick up, em I was like,okay, like this is like real and it's like, there's also this tangible comfort I was
feeling like when I was reading the word, like em when I was like just hurting, like Icould read the word and even if I didn't know what I was really reading, like I just felt
the comfort.
(20:41):
em So I was like, okay, there's like some more, there's something to this, right?
That's different than like your self-help books.
Exactly.
exactly.
I mean, the issue with self-help is it relies on yourself, right?
I had gotten myself into this mess that I was in, right?
So like, why would I rely on myself to get myself out of the mess?
(21:02):
um But yeah, so to continue the story, I guess I had a tremendous amount of growth, Iwould say, like in the first six to eight months.
like I did not.
uh I started going to the church on base, which was good, but it was very, um I don'tknow, it may have been me too, but I didn't like seek community.
(21:29):
That was something that I did not prioritize or really understand the importance of it.
And with that, I was able to um like kind of take a step back and kind of sit idle for awhile because nobody
knew I was there to begin with, right?
I hadn't put myself out there, right?
I sure I was the guy that showed up to church a few times and then kind of stopped goingfor a while.
(21:55):
you know, a lot of people probably didn't think any different, but um I sat idle for likea while there.
then, um but there it was different, right?
And there was like this conviction of like, you know, I've like made this choice.
Why are you sitting idle?
Like, and then um like around this time, like I met my wife and um
(22:15):
She was just different.
She was just so different.
em I was like, OK, I have this desire to walk this way.
And I need to just jump in with both feet.
And that was when I really started taking it seriously.
Right.
And when you say like the six month period, your faith really started to grow.
(22:38):
What did that look like practically?
Yeah, so it was a lot of reading, a lot of reading scripture, em a lot of like worshipmusic too, also.
Like, em it was just something that was easy for me to to bite off and chew.
And I don't know, like, if anybody else feels this way, maybe I'm just weird, butpre-Salvation, I had like almost like an ick to like gospel type music.
(23:05):
Like, it was just something that just like didn't sit right with me.
And I think...
It's because I was set, it was attested to where my heart was.
It was just like, I don't know.
I don't know if I'm gonna be that guy standing there with my hands in the, I don't know.
It just didn't sit right, to be honest.
And something changed when I came to Christ, where I was like, this is all I wanna listento.
(23:29):
Now it's something that is, it's ingrained in me where I want to listen to, and it givesme comfort.
I'm hearing things and I'm,
hearing like truth through the music that I'm like, I needed at that time.
So there was a lot of that.
And I had some good friends too that um the nature of the military is people come and goand they move all over the place.
(23:52):
But um during that time, I did have some great friends that were solid and poured into meand spoke truth and spoke the word into my life that was really life-changing.
So that was that timeframe of that six months where I had the music and I had the Bibleand I had people speaking into my life.
(24:15):
It was good.
I think that's really encouraging too, because once someone does become saved, they'rekind of left with, okay, well, what now?
And I think that there are some churches that do a really good job of leading and guidingyou with those next steps.
But I guess I would ask the question, what would be a couple of things that you think isreally important?
(24:36):
I know you mentioned community, but is there anything else that a new believer can do thatway they're on the right track?
that's a good question.
For sure, community can't emphasize that strongly enough.
Put good people in your corner that are going to encourage you and honestly speak intoyour life if you start to drift and you start to wander.
(24:57):
It's so important to have somebody that is willing to love you enough to say, hey, I loveyou.
I'm not judging you here.
But what are we doing?
What are we doing?
And why are we walking down this path?
Because we're still going to feel that temptation to turn, you know, em and it's importantto have people in your life like that.
(25:18):
Another thing, em I think there's a, at least for me, there was an intimidation of, I haveto do all of these things now, right?
I have to do all of these things.
I have this commitment of going to church even just once a week was a lot for me when it'snot something that's ingrained in...
in your daily habit pattern, it's easy to just be like, ah, like that's a little too much,you know, because our priorities are still out of whack, right?
(25:48):
um So I would say like, don't, excuse me, don't feel like very, don't feel like you haveto do anything as a Christian, right?
That is like one of the things that is going to bring about just like exhaustion andfeeling run down, feeling like you aren't enough.
Well, you're not enough.
And
It's when you let go and you start letting the Lord work through your life, right?
(26:12):
Is when the things don't feel like work anymore, right?
So don't get too caught up in the obligations that so often I think people get hung up onbecause the Lord is going to do what the Lord is going to do.
And when it comes to that, it is a joy to go to church, right?
(26:32):
And if you don't feel that way, like...
take it to the Lord, like take those hard things to Him and pray about it and seek wisdomon it.
And like those are the prayers that He just loves to answer, right?
It's like just working through you in that.
So I don't know if that makes any sense.
How would you say someone could share their faith in the military but also doing it withinthe guidelines of the AFI?
(27:00):
Yeah, that's good.
Well, I think just in general, em it just comes down to being like willing to talk aboutthe Lord.
Like, I was reading this book the other day that...
What did it say?
It was something to the tune of like, the reason that I am afraid to share about my faithand afraid to share the gospel is because...
(27:28):
my fear of the Lord has shrunk so much and my fear of man has grown so much.
So it's like when I feel that way, and not that I am by any means the standard of sharingthe gospel, ah but when you are afraid of what people think of you more than what you're
(27:51):
afraid of, our Lord and Savior thinks of you, right?
It produces this lack of boldness.
eh
that I think I certainly struggle with.
I know a lot of other people do.
em But I think just recently being more confident to just talk about little things first,too.
(28:12):
When somebody asks how your weekend was, don't be afraid to share about what happened atchurch.
If anything, it's just planting little seeds.
Like, OK, this guy goes to church and...
And maybe that like something that small would just be like a conversation starter forsomething later.
And then praying for opportunities to have to share the gospel.
(28:37):
And this is just like in general, I think it does become more complicated in a worksetting, especially if you are in like a leadership role, right?
Because there is this perception of like, okay, like if I'm in a leadership role, mysubordinates and blah, blah, like, am I forcing it on them?
But we're never in the wrong for just talking about life.
(28:59):
Right.
Right.
So I think that's just one thing to remember is like you're never just in the wrong totalk about life.
Right.
um So you can always and usually when you talk about life.
Right.
Especially if there's any depth to it there's going to be like some hurt there.
And em when you get to that hurt.
Right.
We are to be prepared to you know have a have a reason for the hope that we have.
(29:23):
Right.
So I think that is like the biggest thing is like, well, not the biggest thing, but it'sbeen helpful for me to be praying for opportunities as well as just like knowing that
there's uh always going to be an opportunity if I'm willing to walk through the door.
Yeah.
And I think something that you brought up that's really good is, you know, asking the Lordfor help because without fail, every time that I've, I've prayed and said, Hey Lord, let
(29:52):
me have an opportunity where I can love someone or I can pray for someone.
Yeah.
Without fail, there's always been some, not going to lie, there's some times where I'veheard that little voice.
It's not like he's going to speak to you.
m Hey, do this.
It might be that little tug on your heart.
I think it's really important to listen to that.
Like I said, I'm not the best at it, but definitely listening to that when it happens.
(30:16):
And another thing to kind of touch on here recently, I had an interaction with someonewhere I really felt like the Lord was telling me, like, like you need to talk about this
sin that's in someone's life.
And it took me about a whole day to do it.
And then I texted them and I was just saying like, hey, like, I don't judge you.
(30:37):
Yeah.
You know, and you know, this is what the Bible says.
Right.
And after that, you know, I don't want to go into like how it was taken, but for me, afterthe fact, I still felt a little uncomfortable about it.
know, but I realize that sometimes the truth ah isn't the most comfortable thing.
(31:00):
So I think that, like you said, having people in your life that can speak truth into yourlife, I think, you know,
If you do that and you don't feel the greatest afterwards, I don't think it means thatanything is wrong.
I just think that sometimes it's just difficult to do that and that conflict is difficult.
But at the end of the day, the best thing that you can do is tell someone the truth.
(31:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, this is another like cultural thing, like just like associating good person withChristian.
And when we're doing that, people feel attacked, like you're attacking them because you'recalling them out.
But like, it is, it is uncomfortable.
But like, how much more unloving is it to just let them fester in that, right?
(31:43):
If you see somebody like walking towards a cliff that's blindfolded and doesn't see what'scoming from them, why would you not want to like aggressively like
yell, please turn away from this cliff.
Like that is a loving thing to do.
But even if the immediate reaction is not what we would want, right?
It's important to remember that like we're working for the Lord and you know, whether ornot we see the fruit of that interaction, like doesn't change that we are still like
(32:11):
called to be obedient, you know, in that.
But yeah, man, it is a constant struggle and it's a constant battle of just wanting to
you know, just like keep the peace.
I'm not big on conflict.
you know, it's easy to just walk away from that stuff.
There's a saying that a friend of mine told me, and it basically, was this, I think it wasan atheist, and said, how can you hate someone so much if what the Bible says is true,
(32:38):
that someone will go to hell?
Why would you not tell them?
Why is there more people not telling people about the gospel?
And I thought about that and I was like, wow.
Because like you said, if you saw someone being blindfolded going for a cliff, obviouslyyou would save them.
So, I mean, it's just, it's the same thing, know, whenever one day, you know,
Mm-hmm.
(32:58):
We will be judged.
oh
and I think a lot of people are they are in a position where they have either falseassurance em because they've said a prayer, em you know, and that is like a really hard
(33:19):
person to try to speak truth into because if they think that they're good, but they're notlike the cultural Christian, you know, who thinks that
that works is the way to heaven, right?
It's like, well, I think back in my life, I've done pretty good.
I've gone to church.
I've given to charity.
None of those works are going to save you.
(33:40):
And that's so important.
And I think we miss it as a whole country, in so many different ways of, in a world,really, of my works is what is saving me.
And if that's the case, our works are dirty rags, the Lord says.
So it's like, you know.
Yeah, definitely.
(34:01):
So, let's say there's an airman at a different duty station.
They're a believer.
How do you think that they can start a Bible study or start a life group?
And the reason I ask that is because the life group that I was a part of with youimmediately from the start just flourished in the hearts of you and Ashlyn.
(34:24):
uh We're just very genuine, very welcoming.
What would be some, like a roadmap for someone that wants to get that community thatyou're talking about?
Yeah, I think um that's a good question.
I mean, I think there's a lot of different ways you could do it.
um You know, like, like anything, I think it should be spirit led.
(34:47):
think you should spend some time like praying and like seeking the Lord about it on the,on the front half and be like, Lord, like what, does obedience in this area in this season
right now, like look like, right.
And if you were like, let's say just in a dorm, right.
And
And maybe you don't have access to a vehicle.
Maybe you can't even go to church because you don't have access to a vehicle to drive the30 minutes to the church or, you know, on base isn't meeting because of COVID or whatever
(35:15):
the situation is right now.
we can still like pray and think about like, what does it look like to be obedient rightnow?
And it doesn't have to be anything more than just like starting a small Bible study with,within the members of the dorm.
right?
And some people will show and some people won't, and that's fine, right?
(35:36):
But I think just being and having the Spirit lead you where you want or where the Spiritwants to take the Bible study is the most important thing.
That and just the Word is, I think, with us, we've tried to focus more on getting peopleto love the Word.
(35:58):
Right?
Like, what does it look like to love, to study God's Word?
Like, it is so rich and there's like so much depth there.
That like draws people in and like it's applicable and um it's helpful to these living inthis broken world.
we...
um Yeah, I don't know.
(36:19):
I was like rambling here, but I would say, just like be Spirit-led and like focus on theWord.
more than anything else, right?
And getting to know people.
And I think when you step out in faith, I mean, it's going to be uncomfortable, like withanything, you know, with working out.
It's definitely going to be uncomfortable at first, but most important thing is just beingfaithful to what you feel like the Lord's got for you.
(36:44):
And one thing I can definitely attest to too, uh if the Lord is put something on yourheart, He will be there every step of the way.
Provide.
um So you just got to take that leap of faith for sure.
Yeah.
He's not going to call you.
He does not.
What is the phrase?
He's not going to equip you before you're called, right?
(37:08):
He's going to call you and then equip you.
Right.
So, um, don't feel like, mean, even me, like I'm, I would have never guessed I'd be likeleading a life group right now.
Right.
I did not feel like I have the wisdom, the know-how.
did not grow up in church.
I didn't know what a wanna was until like,
a year or two ago, and I was like, oh, that's, know, just didn't know anything, right?
(37:34):
Because I didn't, I didn't grow up in the church.
And like to have gone to my first Bible study in 2019 and now to be the leading one, likeI never would have guessed that.
like the Lord just has has been there and he's provided for that.
And one thing that I've noticed that you do really well is you take every opportunity youcan to serve.
(37:59):
How important is that and how rewarding is that whenever you're not so much focused onyourself, but you're focused on others, especially within your church.
it's good.
Jesus will say it is greater to serve than to be served.
And I have felt that.
I have wanted to be served my whole life because I think I'm just inherently selfish.
(38:20):
But there is joy I get from serving and helping.
And it's not always in the moment.
there's few things as rewarding as just being able to be there and be present and helppeople.
em And I think that's just something that the Lord has really worked on me in particular.
(38:42):
em Just being involved in different ministries at the church I'm at right now has beensuper rewarding.
em And yeah, when you step up and the Lord, he will bless that.
And you also get to meet people, right?
If you don't feel plugged in in your church, I would ask, are you serving?
(39:04):
Because if you show up
and you attend the service and you leave, how many people are you really getting to know?
If you're serving and you're spending time alongside people, that's when I've found thatI've like, okay, now I'm growing relationships.
And that is, I think, the heart of community of just getting to know the people and doinglife with them.
(39:27):
And I think a lot of that comes with service.
And I've definitely fallen into the trap too, especially with, you know, PCSing.
This is my fourth duty station, right?
So when you go to a new base and then you were trying to find a church, I would fall intothe trap of going into service, you know, sitting by myself and then like no one talking
(39:48):
to me and then I just leave.
But I feel like that's not the right attitude to have.
I feel like you really got to put yourself out there like you're saying.
um Because yes, there's going to be those churches that are very welcoming and are goingto get you connected.
but still do your part.
If you really don't feel like the Lord's calling you to that church, try a differentthing.
And the youth pastor put it well.
(40:09):
He just said, use your spiritual gifts.
You can do a spiritual gifts test to say, uh this is stuff I'm already naturally good at,um and just try it out.
And if you don't like it, you can move on.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And there's always going to be a need somewhere, right, where you're going to fit in.
So yeah.
(40:29):
Yeah.
That's so good.
So with all the stress that we go through as military members, one thing that I've noticedis that there's a lot of stuff that we don't see that people are dealing with, whether
that be a death in the family.
I guess my question is, how can we rely on God when it's a lot easier just to rely ondrinking or just going out having sex, stuff that doesn't lead to anything good?
(40:57):
How can we rely on
Yeah, that's good.
I think, I mean, the biggest thing is, right, you just have to let him do what he doesbest, right?
If you are shutting him out, right?
I want to be careful I phrase this in a way that I'm not saying God can't, right?
(41:17):
Because God can do whatever God is going to do.
But if with our part in it, right, and inviting the Lord into our life and like trustinghim and relying on him.
If we are not doing that, think it's easy to tell based on what sort of fulfillment we'refeeling.
em With struggles are going to come just pain.
(41:43):
And I'm not going to try to minimize or dismiss and say that as a Christian, you're notgoing to feel pain and you're not going to have struggles.
But uh I think
another, an understanding of the like, what joy is.
Like, what is, what is joy?
Can we be sad, right, about the death of a family member, but still have joy?
(42:07):
Right?
And the answer to that is absolutely right.
And it comes from, right, the relationship we have with the Lord and like the depth ofthat relationship and also the assurance we have of where we're going.
em as far as like tangible, practical advice, like
I would encourage anyone just to take those tough things like to the Lord, maybe evenlike, you know, seeking wisdom, like find a mentor who has maybe walked through something
(42:34):
who's wiser than you.
Like, I think that's something we miss a lot is uh do we have anybody in our life that isolder, wiser, and has maybe walked through something that we're walking through right now
em that is able to speak truth into our life, right?
em
And I would say that this should not be, it could be family maybe, but I don't think itshould be a spouse, right?
(43:03):
There should be somebody outside of your marriage and outside of like kind of maybe notyour circle, right?
But somebody who's able to, who knows you and can speak into your life.
um For me, I happened to find um somebody just at my last job.
was, he was, uh
a chief master sergeant and I just was listening to him talk.
(43:25):
I'm like, this guy, this guy knows the word.
Like I don't even know where he goes to church or anything, but I'm just listening to himtalk and my ears are picking up.
I'm like, this guy knows the word like so well.
Yeah.
So I went and I just cornered him in his office super awkwardly one day and I was like, Iasked him to mentor me.
And I said like, will you just take some time?
(43:46):
Like, I don't know what it looks like.
I'm not trying to put anything on your plate, but like, would you be willing to likementor me?
Not about anything in particular, but and he did and he's we've met like until he PCS wemet like weekly and em like I was just able to just sit like under his teaching.
Like he's an older man that like was just willing to just take some time and just teachme.
So I mean long answer to your question, but one like rely on the Lord and to like findsomebody else also who is wise and is going to speak truth in your life.
(44:19):
Definitely.
And I think that's something that if that's if you feel like something if that's tuggingon your heart to do that and just definitely do it because I'm not gonna say I'm gonna
guarantee but I almost guarantee that if you find like an elder in the church or someoneabove you and you ask them to mentor you they're going to want to do that.
Yeah, if anybody came up to me, you I'm pretty positive that that someone wants to helpand just such a great relationship can can happen from that.
(44:46):
I think kind of want to dive in just
little bit.
uh Kind of something that I went through and I know that there's some people that I knowthat are kind of struggling with loneliness right now.
Especially with you know being single and being at your duty station.
um What do you think would be a way for someone to look for that spouse?
What would you say would be some things that they should be looking for?
(45:13):
Yeah, the thing that comes to my mind like right away is that we should be equally yoked.
If we are, if we are seeking marriage, right, in a Christian context, first of all, like Idon't even know how to explain marriage outside of a Christian context.
Like if we go by the worldly standards, there's so many things out there.
(45:34):
Like I don't even know where to start.
So
We're talking like within a Christian context here.
And with that, like we should be equally yoked.
I used to misinterpret this and think that this meant we are at an equal level ofspiritual maturity.
But that's not necessarily the case.
(45:55):
My wife is, was, and is still, and probably will remain for a while, I hope.
way more spiritually wise than I am.
And she's grown up in the church and she's been around, bound in her whole life.
um But so I was like, are we equally young?
Because I'm like this new believer.
Like, I don't know.
(46:16):
But you have to have something in your marriage that you're chasing after together.
Right.
And um when God created marriage and you have man and a woman, like the point of thatmarriage, right, is
to glorify the Lord, it's also, right, should be a reflection of Christ's em relationshipto the church.
(46:38):
So, um practically converting that into, what does that look like?
Find somebody who um is on the same page about what you believe, right?
And ask those hard questions.
And em not that it's a gotcha, or I'm trying to trick you and see if you're good enough,or if you know enough.
(47:01):
Right?
But asking those questions that are going to reveal like what their heart is towards theirfaith.
Is it a check the box and move on?
em Is it a like workspace faith?
Like figure out where they're at and em if it's not where you're at, that doesn'tnecessarily mean cut it off right away.
(47:23):
em But seek wisdom on it and let the spirit lead you as well as like
If they are off a path, maybe, right?
And they're not willing to see that wisdom on their own and be like, maybe I'm notthinking about things correctly, or maybe I have some misunderstandings.
If they're not humble in that sense, like, it is probably time to move on, right?
(47:46):
em You know, and that's not nothing bad, but we don't want to find ourselves in a marriagefive years down the road where we have kids and we're trying to explain the gospel and we
have a totally different understanding of what the gospel is.
I think that's good that you brought that up too, because that actually got brought up ina small group recently.
And they said, well, what if we're not equally yoked?
(48:07):
And our pastor basically said, are both of these individuals following after Christ?
they believed?
Are they saved?
And they are equally yoked.
Because sanctification is a process that lasts a lifetime.
And you're never going to be good enough to strive to be like Jesus.
Yeah, absolutely.
(48:28):
Yeah, that's good.
So yeah, definitely equally yolk.
Would you say there would be anything else to kind of would be something they should lookfor?
Yeah, I don't know.
think listen to those people once again that are in your circle and invite this personaround.
And em those people that are in your community group or your life group or whatever, evenjust your close friends that you know, let them speak into, this a good thing for me or
(48:58):
not?
Because the heart is deceitful, above all things, especially in a relationship.
I think it's so easy to just get like, oh, they're great and they may be, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean they're great for you.
But it may be very clear to everyone on the outside.
I think em just having good people in your circle who have your best interest in mind andare willing to have those hard conversations would be good.
(49:27):
Awesome.
In closing, why should someone follow Jesus?
I mean, this is the most important question anybody's ever going to ask about themselves,right?
Yeah, there's a temptation for me to focus on the goodness in my life that has come fromit.
(49:47):
em There's so many good things, lowercase g and uppercase g, that have just been a resultof, you know, trusting in the Lord.
things like just making friends and um routine and um hearing a message on Sunday morningthat is encouraging.
(50:11):
And those are good things, but they are completely missing like the absolute um biggestneed I have of there being this uh spiritual hole in my life before Jesus.
Right.
It was a
God's eyes hole, that is the phrase that I was trying to fill with everything else.
(50:33):
And I think so many people fall into em that habit pattern, like you said, of the drinkingand partying and doing whatever you wanted to do to try to find that joy.
em for me, entering in a relationship with the Lord, uh that is the only thing that hasbrought me true fulfillment.
(50:55):
em
you know, with that, I like, I don't know what I would, what I'd be doing.
And even, you know, like looking into like afterlife, like, you know, I know confidently,like where I'm going now.
And a lot of people don't.
And it's a question you should, you should for sure answer while you're on earth, youknow, like, you don't want to get to the end of it and going, ah, I wish I were taking
(51:22):
that more seriously.
But.
Yeah, I don't know.
This is a hard question to answer and also the easiest question in the world to answer.
Like it is brought in a lot of like good things to me that have been good, but the biggestthing is it has filled this God-shaped hole in my heart, in my life where I was seeking
(51:44):
after everything but the Lord.
And then in filling that I feel and em there is like...
God's design for us was to be Him to be in and amongst it.
And when we are separated from it, just like when you separate engine oil from a vehicleand make it run without, it is not going to work.
(52:07):
It may run for a little while, but it's going to be rough.
And then things are going to break down.
you pour ketchup in there and that's going to work for a little bit.
It is only like one thing that that engine was designed for, right?
And it was designed to run with engine oil and without it, it's never going to be workingright.
(52:28):
So like, don't want to make this all about how I feel, but like that is a tangible thingthat when you are in a relationship with the Lord, that it is just, you know, and it just
answers a lot of questions too, right?
We live in this world of not knowing so much, but if you are a Christian, we have so manyanswers.
(52:54):
All of a sudden we can tell you why the world is the way it is, what is going to happen,and why it's going to happen.
So there's a lot of rambling, but hopefully that's...
Yeah, that's an encouragement.
I think just that hope that you know where you're going.
I think that's really key, especially within our line of work, you know, the dangers thatcomes along with military members and first responders.
(53:21):
There is definitely security in knowing where we're at and hope that way.
know, even if you're going through something really rough, you know, at the end of theday, you know, this life that we live on Earth is not
It's not the end.
Yeah, yeah, it really does provide a frame of reference for, these things that I'm goingthrough here are, they are temporary, right, and the Bible says that, you know, I'm going
(53:48):
to misquote it here, but it's like, it is nothing.
Like, the sufferings that we endure now are like nothing compared to the future glory,right, which...
Like, I don't want to minimize what anybody would be going through.
That's not the intent of that.
But even the most unimaginable suffering that we would experience here on earth, right?
(54:08):
Like, we can trust that the future glories would just so completely outweigh anything thatyou could experience on earth.
And we can confidently say that based on, you know, knowing that, like, the Lord camedown, like, lived the perfect life, you know, died.
(54:28):
was resurrected three days later and defeated death so that you and I can share in that.
um
yeah, I love that.
Well, I've had a blast talking with you.
I know it takes a lot to come on a podcast and just share your wisdom and just beingvulnerable.
So I really do appreciate that and definitely look forward to having you on again.
(54:51):
again for listening to another episode of Faith in the Line of Duty.
If you're a first responder or in the military and have a story you'd like to share, emailme at faithinthelineofduty at gmail.com.
You could be a guest on a future episode.
To continue the conversation, visit my Facebook and Instagram page.
Thanks again for tuning in, and join me next time for another encouraging story of faithin the line of duty.
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