June 3, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode I'm joined by my friend Crystal Doiron, a licensed clinical social worker and mama, as she courageously shares her story of postpartum depression and anxiety—and the hope she found on the other side.
Crystal's journey began with detailed plans, a "birth binder" (not just a birth plan!), and the determination to do everything "right." But when preeclampsia led to an emergency induction, C-section, and a cascade of unexpected challenges, Crystal found herself struggling with the gap between expectation and reality.
This conversation is raw, honest, and deeply encouraging. Crystal opens up about the darkest moments of her postpartum experience—including the day she realized she was having thoughts of ending her life—and how that became her wake-up call to seek help and find healing.
Whether you're currently struggling with perinatal mood challenges, supporting someone who is, or want to prepare your heart for what might come—this episode offers both practical wisdom and spiritual hope.
In this episode, Crystal shares:
🧠 How her perfectionist, control-focused personality made her more vulnerable to postpartum depression
💔 The moment her carefully planned birth completely fell apart and how that affected her emotionally
🚨 Five medical red flags that can contribute to or worsen perinatal anxiety and depression
💪 Practical steps she took toward healing: therapy, reclaiming body autonomy, and prioritizing self-care
✝️ How reconnecting with God felt like "winter fading into spring—things slowly coming back to life"
📝 The "sticky note strategy" for getting postpartum help without the awkwardness
👥 Why community and vulnerability are essential for maternal mental health
Scripture Shared:
"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness." – Lamentations 3:22-23 (ESV)
I close this episode with a heartfelt prayer for any mama walking through the darkness of perinatal mood challenges—that you would know you're seen, loved, and held by a faithful God who never leaves you.
Mentioned in this episode:
✨ Seven Oaks Therapy: Connect with Crystal at crystal@sevenoakstherapy.com
📚 Postpartum Support International: Virtual support groups and resources
💛 Christian Mama Birth Prep Library: Free Birth Preferences Checklist, worship playlists & more
Remember: struggling doesn't make you a bad mom—it makes you human, and help is available.
If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a mama who needs to hear Crystal's story of hope. Let's keep choosing faith over fear, one birth story at a time. Go here for the full blog post, show notes, and all resources mentioned!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Natalie Portman (00:45):
Hey mama.
Welcome back to Faith Over Fear,the Christian Pregnancy and
Birth podcast.
Today's episode is going tospeak directly to the mom who's
quietly wrestling with sadness,anxiety, or even just that heavy
fog that won't seem to lift.
If that's you or someone youlove, I want you to know you're
not alone, and today'sconversation is filled with so
(01:07):
much grace and hope I'm honoredto welcome Crystal.
Do Iron to the podcast.
Crystal is a licensed clinicalsocial worker, a wife and a mama
to an 18 month old little boy.
She has years of experienceworking in trauma and recently
felt called to shift her focustowards serving women in the
perinatal and postpartumseasons.
(01:28):
Crystal's here today to help usrecognize the signs of perinatal
mood disorders, offer practicalsteps to begin healing, and
remind us that loving Jesusdoesn't mean you won't struggle
and struggling also doesn't makeyou a bad mom.
I know her story and insightsare going to bless you.
Crystal, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Crystal Doiron (01:50):
Hi, Natalie.
Thanks so much for having me.
Natalie Portman (01:52):
Of course.
Well, I would love to start withyour story.
Would you mind telling us aboutyour motherhood journey and also
what that postpartum season waslike for you?
Crystal Doiron (02:04):
Of course.
As I was going through our storyand sort of piecing this
together to be prepared fortoday so much of it still is a
fog because it was a fog then.
And so as we move through it,that like I think many moms will
relate to, it's a little bitclunky and a little bit messy.
And you know, that's, that'spart of.
(02:25):
What this feels like.
So it's part of what it soundslike.
So just full disclosure as wemove into it, that it might not
be a very neat story.
Natalie Portman (02:33):
I love that you're even just kind of saying,
it's okay if this whole journeyseems.
Chaotic and there's no linearflow to it, that it's a lot of
ups and downs and ups and downs,because that was certainly my
story.
I feel like I can't even thinkback to that time, like both
times my postpartum seasonsbecause it, it was just so
(02:55):
challenging for me that I don'teven remember a lot of it,
which, you know, in some ways ismaybe, coping.
Crystal Doiron (03:01):
I think the Lord provides that as a healing thing
for us as well.
That some of those sharperpieces or the darker pieces, we
just sort of get that lovelylittle haze later.
Because I, you know, you'veprobably heard this before too.
If we remembered all of it, weprobably would only have one
child.
Natalie Portman (03:18):
That is some Facts.
Yep.
Crystal Doiron (03:20):
Yeah.
But, so to, to start this Ithink I need to introduce a
little bit about my personalityand how that made me maybe more
vulnerable to postpartumdepression.
So I'm a very hyper independentperson.
If I can take care of my ownneeds, I will take care of my
own needs.
I'm a planner.
I love structure.
(03:41):
And so when we were pregnantwith Henry, which we did
experience some infertilitybefore we even became pregnant
with him for about two years andwe're about to start the process
of you know, getting help withthat and doing treatments.
And right when we were about tostart that process the Lord
blessed us and we had him reallywithout any assistance, which
(04:01):
was so cool.
But we were really motivated tohave this natural birth.
And so I read book after bookand I made not even a birth
plan, but a birth binder.
I hired a doula and I studiedhypnobirthing because I was
convinced that that was gonna bethe thing that would carry me
through this.
(04:21):
And in hindsight, now that I'mlooking back on it, that was the
beginning of me taking thisbirth in my own hands.
Not giving it to the Lord, I wasequipping myself.
Because it felt like if I couldfigure it out, if I could do it
the right way, it would be good.
And in hindsight, I'm justseeing that desperation to do
(04:42):
something that I wasn't calledto do, that I could have just
given that to the Lord andtrusted him.
Natalie Portman (04:46):
I relate to that so deeply.
And, and not so much with thebirth.
I, I, I can certainly seeaspects of that in my story, but
in other aspects of my life,like being a mother,
Crystal Doiron (04:59):
Yes.
Natalie Portman (04:59):
I'm, I am very much in that boat.
And so I love that vulnerabilitythat you're bringing to this
conversation because I think somany of us, especially as
believers, you know, Christianwomen, we, we can fall into that
trap of self-sufficiency andindependence, and it very easily
(05:23):
morphs and turns into relyingonly on ourselves.
And just kind of using the Lordas like a lucky charm instead of
actually trusting him that he isthe reason why we can go through
anything in this life.
So yeah, I, I deeply relate to,to that sentiment.
(05:44):
For me, it was in my mothering.
And the Lord is working througha lot of that in me.
But thank you for pointing thatout because I think that that's
a really important distinction.
Not just why you're preparingfor your birth, which is very,
that's very much needed.
You know, we do need to prepareour hearts and our minds, but if
we're doing it from a place ofso that I can handle this, so
(06:08):
that I can make this birthhappen the way that I want it
to.
We're doomed to fail becausethat's not at all the reality of
the situation.
You know, we are very much underthe Lord's plan and we need to
work on the posture of our heartto really see it that way
because the default is so easyto just go, to make it work.
(06:31):
Especially if you are that kindof personality type, like I'm
definitely that personality typeas well.
Crystal Doiron (06:35):
And I think, oh, I'm just so happy on the tail
end of it, not in the process.
'Cause the refining process wasnever comfortable.
But I'm so grateful to be on theside of it and see how God was
such a good father.
To let me fail to let me notsucceed in my endeavors, to do
(06:56):
it myself so that he could showhis care for me.
And.
It really is such a blessing tosee it now.
But when I was relying on me, itfelt like failure.
It felt like inadequacy, and itis inadequacy because I'm trying
to do something that I wasn'tcreated to do.
Not having birth, but relying onmy own strength we're not
(07:18):
designed to rely on our ownstrength like that.
Natalie Portman (07:20):
Couldn't agree more and I actually had, I was
in therapy.
After I had Ellie, before wewere trying to get pregnant with
Daniel because that was thething that the enemy kept
whispering to me, was like, youdon't have what it takes.
Who do you think you are to be amom?
Who do you think you are?
To think that you should haveanother one?
(07:43):
And those whispers were so darkand I, I believed them, even if
I could logically say like.
this is not right.
This is not what the fatherwould say about me, but I
believed that to my coresomehow.
And, and so it is very, it, likethe enemy's tactics are nothing
(08:03):
new.
They all look a littledifferently in our season.
And, and kind of like oursituation.
But he does say the same liesand that feeling of it's all on
you, boo.
It's up to you to make thingshappen.
If it doesn't happen, that'syour fault.
And nothing could be furtherfrom the truth, especially when
(08:24):
you think about something asmiraculous as conceiving
growing, birthing raising.
Another human being, it iscompletely miraculous.
And who do we think we are thatwe need to have it all figured
out?
Absolutely not.
It's a complete lie when wethink that.
Crystal Doiron (08:43):
Yeah, I remember a moment when we went for a
scan, I got to see.
Henry's brain and how it wasfunctioning during the scan.
And I got to see the chambers ofhis heart and how they were
pumping while he was stillgrowing inside of me and his
spinal cord and all of thevertebrae.
And I'm thinking in my head, I'mdoing nothing to grow him.
(09:07):
I am.
Eating complete junk, trying toeat healthy, but really doing
nothing, having no power fromgrowing.
And it took me to Psalms whereDavid is saying, you knit me
together in my mother's womb,and I'm looking at this scan and
seeing him doing that, and itwas such a humbling moment.
(09:27):
So as the pregnancy wasprogressing, I think that
desperation got stronger andstronger.
And I remember, you know, we hada birth binder, right?
And I didn't want Pitocin and Ididn't want an epidural, and I
didn't want any formula.
We wanted to have a naturalbirth and to breastfeed.
(09:47):
We had the whole thing mappedout and we went in for one of
those last, like weeklycheck-ins and they do a, test
and my blood pressure was toohigh and there were a couple
other indicators forpreeclampsia and they said,
guess what, mama, you're havingthis baby today.
And we didn't even have the bagwith us or anything.
(10:09):
So we got moved in and I saw theplan I had created, just start
crumbling because they weretrying to manage both the
inducement of labor and alsokeep the blood pressure low.
It ended up turning into fourdays of prodromal labor, and
effort after effort to inducethat just were painful and not
(10:31):
working.
And ended with getting Pitocin,which I didn't want getting an
epidural, which I didn't want.
It ended up being a C-sectionand I remember lying there.
After, you know, they, they wereable to get him out and, my
husband and I had decided wewanted someone to stay with the
baby at all times if possible inthe hospital.
(10:54):
So they take Henry to go beweighed and cleaned, and Spencer
goes with him, Spencer's myhusband.
And I remember laying there andjust feeling so empty and alone.
And I'm sure that moment wasonly for maybe a minute tops,
but it felt like it lastedforever.
It was so sterile and so justcold.
(11:20):
And I remember thinking.
This isn't how it is in themovies.
In the movies, you have yourbaby and you hold them and you
look at them and you cry out oflove.
And I am in so much pain and heis, he's beautiful.
And I remember this sort of.
Messy processing of, oh, it'sover.
(11:43):
Oh, we did it.
Oh, but I didn't really do it.
They had to do this operationbecause I couldn't do it.
And look how beautiful he is andall the kind of competing
thoughts and feelings there.
And I.
What happened after was evenmessier because because we had
the C-section, we had to stay inthe hospital for a little
longer, and then his bilirubinlevels were high, so we had to
(12:07):
stay longer for that.
And this moment makes me, itjust makes my heartbreak.
I finally was able to get tosleep.
My husband's holding her son andone thing that we're gonna cover
today is what postpartum canlook like for dads because
there's not a lot ofconversations about that either.
And he is holding her son andhe's so scared that something's
(12:29):
wrong because we've gottenthrough this whole process of
something being wrong.
So he goes to seek just some,some comfort from a nurse and,
this nurse immediately asks him,well, did you drop the baby?
And you know, then he getsreally kind of defensive and
flustered no, of course not.
I just wanna make sure he isokay.
And then she starts pushingformula because maybe he's not
(12:52):
eating enough breast milkbecause our breast milk hasn't
come in and.
He's so scared that he's okay,whatever.
We need to take care of him.
And while I'm asleep, he makesthe decision that we're gonna
start formula.
And I remember I woke up and Iheard this and I felt so
betrayed.
And we had such a strong bond,our whole relationship, so much
(13:15):
that people thought it was likefake sometimes so mushy.
You know, but we, I love him somuch and I still do, but this
was just a moment early in thatprocess where we had that break
and that division and he, Ithink he would do it again and I
would want him to, but also itjust felt like the last thing we
were holding onto that we couldhave made happen.
(13:36):
And then that was taken away andI felt so low.
I just was basically sobbingenough in the bed like.
I guess it's over.
Like nothing worked and wefailed.
And that's just how it is.
And there were so many wonderfulpeople.
You know, there's this one nursewho made it a little bit worse,
(13:56):
but there were so many peoplewho tried to make it better.
Family who tried to visit and wedidn't really know how to fold
them in.
And my mom, she's not fromFlorida where we are she's in
North Carolina, drove eighthours to spend like one morning
with us before.
Things got complicated withmedical stuff and the lactation
specialist who came in who toldme that even though we started
(14:19):
Formula, we could stillbreastfeed, it still could work.
And you know, there were so manypeople who were adding good to
it, but I think the heaviness ofit all was just so loud.
So I'm gonna fast forward alittle bit.
We had several days, even afterwe were released for the
C-section and the bilirubinwhere then we had to go back to
(14:41):
the children's hospital to do ascreening for him.
That ended up being a falsepositive.
He was fine, praise the Lord.
And then I had to go back to thehospital for blood pressure
concerns.
And we were just so defeated.
As I've studied postpartumdepression and perinatal mood
and anxiety disorders, how your.
(15:02):
Getting medical help afterwards,getting those screenings,
getting your lab works done.
Getting follow up is reallyimportant, but because we had
such a terrible experience withhospitals and doctors, I was
just avoiding that so intensely.
And so I wasn't seeking carelike I should have.
So at this point in the story,we're home.
And.
(15:23):
I know I'm not okay physically Idon't know if you've had a
c-section, but that weakness youfeel just even moving, walking
around.
And I've never experienced that,so that was very shocking.
My husband, again is carryinghis own anxiety and, and trauma
response to what happened.
And so he's just so devoted toour baby.
(15:44):
I remember thinking, there's noroom for me not to be.
Okay, so just suck it up, girl.
Deal with it.
And I kept it quiet and I didn'ttell him when I was struggling
physically.
Uh, We had a whole monthtogether.
My husband got a whole month offof work which in hindsight it's
oh, four weeks is not, but Iknow that's a blessing, so I'm
grateful for it.
But then when he went back,that's when I started to realize
(16:06):
that I was not okay emotionallyeither.
But again, that really loudvoice, there's just not room to
not be.
Okay.
Really just sort of entered intowhat I call like the hamster
wheel of just moving and movingand moving.
There's things you have to do.
You have to take care of baby,get them to sleep, feed him,
change his diaper, get'em tosleep, feed him, change his
(16:28):
diaper, read to'em, help himgrow and go through, this
lowness and again, that feelingof inadequacy.
Because not only was this mythoughts that were inducing
this, but now my hormone shiftshave led to this and all of the
biological responses to having atraumatic birth.
So to wrap it up, it ended upbeing a very long season of some
(16:51):
very intense struggles.
I tried to return to work andnavigate what that looks like.
You know, we didn't want Henryin daycare and so we were trying
to sort of do shift workparenting.
I would keep him when my husbandwas at work and then he would
keep Henry when I was at work.
Then we would split up thenighttime, which again is a huge
blessing.
The moms don't have that at all,but we were each other's biggest
(17:14):
resources and now we reallyweren't available to each other
because the way we had to makethat work in that season.
It was very emotionally low.
It was very isolating.
And I didn't even really noticethat it felt so low, it just
didn't feel right.
And it wasn't till later that Irealized how deep and intense it
had gotten and the moment that Ireally realized something was
(17:39):
deeply wrong.
I remember I was driving andHenry was in the backseat.
And at this point I had, youknow, read, okay, it's a good
thing to be out in the sunlight.
Go for walks, you know, go get'em out.
And so we were driving home fromone of our walks and I started
thinking in my mind, well,clearly I'm very bad at this.
I'm not meant to be a mom.
I thought I was my whole life.
(18:00):
Clearly I wasn't meant to be.
I'm no good at it.
They'll probably be better offwithout me.
And I started legitimatelythinking through what it would
be like to take my life.
As a mental health professionalthat scared the mess out of me.
I was terrified once I kind oflike recognized that it had
gotten to that point and thatwas the wake up call.
(18:23):
So I started to look up whathelp was out there, what could
be available.
I found a therapist and westarted working together and it
happened to coincide with somedecisions I made that were
healthier for us.
So we stopped co-sleeping atabout eight months.
We stopped breastfeeding atabout eight months and getting
that autonomy of my body back Ithink was a big piece.
(18:46):
I started taking my vitaminsagain.
I started really prioritizing myhealth.
And my therapist was so great atwalking me through that.
It wasn't selfish to take careof myself.
It was being a good mom toreally prioritize that.
And so that was really whenthings started to shift and
change.
I started to pray again.
(19:07):
I don't know if in that darkseason if I actually prayed.
I'm sure I did, but I don'tthink I was truly connecting
with the Lord.
And so when I started to seethings change, it was like when
the sun just starts to come backout or when it starts to, I like
to call.
(19:27):
As I work with clients now thisseason of like winter, right?
And as winter fades into springand things slowly start to come
back to life, that's what itfelt like.
So I was sitting in the caragain.
I was wanting to hug my husbandagain.
I was wanting to put on prettyclothes again and take care of
myself again.
(19:48):
We were exiting that season.
Natalie Portman (19:50):
Thank you so much for sharing that and, and I
got so teary eyed.
When you shared just the depthof that darkness.
I, myself have definitely beenthere.
In the very recent past havebeen there.
And it is a really scary placeto be because, you know, it's a
lie.
Sorry, I'm trying not to getsuper emotional, but Yeah.
You know, it's a lie.
(20:10):
But you still, you still fallinto that and, and if you're a
mom listening to this and you,you have been in that space, or
you know, someone you love who'sbeen in that space, seek help.
Because it's so easy to beisolated and it's so easy to
(20:32):
focus on.
Your kids your spouse, yourwork, and not prioritize
yourself like you mentioned.
And that's the place that I, Ihad to get to was here I am
working with women,
Crystal Doiron (20:48):
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Portman (20:48):
working with them as somebody who is
informing them and loving themand serving them, but I can't
even do that to myself.
And every time I would do somesort of, you know, self care, go
get my nails done or something,the enemy would just be like,
you're so selfish.
You know, you're, how, how dareyou do that?
(21:11):
And I know so many other womenhave, have likely experienced
that.
And so thank you for sharingthat because it is a very scary,
vulnerable place to be.
But I think.
When we kind of hit those lows,we start to realize something's
(21:31):
not right.
And again, if this is you, ifthis has ever been you, or look
out for these signs, if you knowyou haven't experienced this
yet, maybe you're still pregnantwith your first child and you
haven't walked this kind ofseason yet, be prepared.
That the enemy is going to tryto throw this your way,
potentially at some point andsay, no we're not doing this.
(21:55):
We're not messing around withthis.
And so I, I definitely have beentaking very active steps to move
away from that because it isit's something that requires a
lot of attention andintentionality To get out of
that season.
And, I can only speak,personally as somebody who has
walked through that, but as aprofessional, if there is a mom
(22:18):
listening to this or she knowssomebody she loves a friend or a
sister or somebody she knowsthat is walking through
perinatal mood, disorders and,and depression and all the
things.
What would you say to that MamaCrystal?
That that would be practicalsteps for her to come out of
that season?
Crystal Doiron (22:39):
Oh my goodness.
Well, first, Natalie, thank youfor sharing your story.
I wanna highlight too thatyou're creating this space to
provide resources, right?
And you are equipped justbecause the Lord has called you
to it.
So thank you for sharing that.
I wanna really honor that.
So yeah, so for a mom who isrecognizing oh, maybe I'm there,
(23:00):
or maybe I know someone who'sthere, I would just let them
know that there's so muchstrength and vulnerability that
no one is expecting you to dothis perfectly, and no one is
expecting you to do this withcomplete excellence, without
failing.
Anything we do for the firsttime, we're going to struggle at
(23:22):
when we learn to walk.
We stumble and fall, when welearn to speak, when we learn to
write, when we learn to doanything in our entire lives,
there's a margin of error andlots and lots and lots of
failure, and I think it is a liefrom the enemy that if you are
not perfect.
If you don't like with me withmy story, if you can't make it
(23:46):
all go according to plan, thenclearly you are just not called
for this.
You should just give up.
And that is not at all thegospel.
We see the Lord over and overand over again use imperfect
people, right?
There's not a perfect person inthe Bible except for Jesus.
And I think it's so beautifulbecause we see him use broken
(24:08):
people.
We see him use.
Sinful people.
We see him use struggling peopleand sometimes awful people to do
the will of God, and he wouldnot have given you this child if
he didn't plan for you tospecifically nurture that child
into who he has designed them tobe.
So if you are in a season ofstruggling, if you know someone
(24:30):
who's in a season of struggling,just provide that comfort that
it is strong to admit thatthere's a gap there.
And the Lord fills that, andother people can fill that.
People cannot help you if theydon't know you have a need.
And when you're able to bevulnerable and share that space,
I can't make all of these mealsand people can bring some, I
(24:54):
can't keep my head above waterright now, and people can
provide encouragement.
Maybe they come over and providesome things.
I've noticed people are reallyscared of.
Like imposing themselves andover overstepping or intruding.
So sometimes it takes thatvulnerability to get the support
that you need.
(25:14):
So yeah, that was a lot of wordsto basically say if you're at
that season, good, now we canopen up some change.
Now we can get some support andhelp this feel better.
Natalie Portman (25:27):
That's such great advice and that was a big
piece for me as I've beenwalking through this was just
like reaching out to somebodyand just instead of I.
Hearing the very loud, negativeself-talk.
If you're familiar with theEnneagram, I'm type one, I'm the
perfectionist.
(25:48):
And so we call it the innercritic.
And so my inner critic can bevery, very harsh with me, but
this, you know, dealing with thedepression that I've been in
was, you know, definitely likethe enemy as well, like just
dark, horrible voices.
But I would, just go, okay, whocan I talk to that will speak
life into me?
(26:08):
And I would call my sisters.
I would call my mom.
I would call a friend, and Iwould just lay it all out there
and, and just a simple phonecall of this is where I'm at.
And they would speak life intome and they would always offer
to pray for me.
So something even as simple asthat can make such a powerful
connection to just remindyourself of the truth of the
(26:32):
gospel that yes, you areinadequate.
I love when you said that it,it's not that the enemy is like
telling you a straight up lie.
He's always going to veil it insome kind of half truth.
And the truth is, you are in andof yourself not equipped to do
all of the things, but the Lordhas not called you to do.
(26:53):
All of the things he has calledyou to faithfully be a mama who
loves Jesus, who is helping yourlittle babies also love Jesus.
And you cannot expect yourselfto do everything all the time.
Perfectly.
And that's where I get hung upis when I feel like I haven't
done something perfectly thatI'm like, screw it.
(27:14):
Like we're just gonna throw outthe whole thing.
I just wanna be done with it.
'cause it didn't do it.
Right.
You know?
And, and so that's where it, youhave to just have those kind of
go-to people.
In your life that will helpremind you.
And if it's not an actualtherapist, just have your friend
have some sort of network thatyou know you can reach out to.
(27:35):
Because it is, it goes a longway to just remind yourself of
what is true when you're, allyou hear is a lie.
Crystal Doiron (27:43):
Yeah, I had a coworker at the time, her name
is Stephanie, and she is so boldin her support.
And so what I mean by that is I,at work, my go-to line was, oh,
things are great.
Henry's growing things aregreat.
And she could just see rightthrough that.
And she's a very no-nonsensekind of girl.
(28:05):
And so she could even recognizewhen I wasn't taking my
vitamins.
She said, Hmm, you're not takingyour prenatals anymore, are you?
And I said, how can you tell?
How do you know?
And she said, oh, well, you'relooking a little gray and you
know, I can, I, she just was soobservant and so bold in her
love and support and.
(28:27):
That kind of broke through thatillusion I was trying to create
that it was okay and I was okayand, you know, nobody needed to
worry'cause I didn't wanna putthat on anybody.
And she just slammed rightthrough that.
And I just am so grateful as Ilook back on that, that she was
able to break through what, forme, felt protective, but
(28:49):
actually was harming me, keepingpeople out.
Keeping people in the dark.
So I'm so grateful.
And if you don't have aStephanie, be one.
Right.
Be the person who's so observantand so love filled that the
(29:10):
niceties and posture of, okay,well that's great.
And if you need anything, let meknow.
Show up, bring the meals, and ifyou overstepped.
That's one thing that's, youknow, but I would much rather
overstep than miss someone'sneed and have them suffer.
So that totally shifted myperspective for how to support
(29:33):
other people because I am notthat bold.
But now I have sort of becomethat way because of what I
experienced through her.
Natalie Portman (29:41):
Yeah, the number of times where I've had a
friend who had a child after mewho would say something to the
effect of.
If I had known you were goingthrough this, I would have done
this, that and the other, but Ihad no idea.
But I also keep my pain and mysuffering to myself because I
(30:01):
don't wanna be a burden toanybody else.
Or it's also me just trying tolike.
Stuff it deep down, like I don'teven wanna deal with these
feelings of inadequacyconstantly.
The sadness I feel, the griefI'm feeling that I'm not the mom
that I was hoping I would be orI haven't, I, I'm just not who I
(30:24):
thought I would be at this pointor something like that.
But I mean, for the mom who'slistening, who, like we've been
talking about, hasn't walkedthrough this before, like this
is her first pregnancy, whatwould you say to her to prepare
herself for what's ahead?
Because I, I think it's normaland natural to expect some form
(30:46):
of this.
This, okay, here's myexpectation and here's the
reality, and there's a gapthere.
I think all of us, whether it'sthe pregnancy.
You know, if it's not a smoothpregnancy, the birth, the
postpartum time, the toddlerphase, I mean, at some point
you're gonna, there, you'regonna realize there's a gap from
the expectation and whatactually happens.
(31:08):
So how can, I mean, I guess thiswould be for anybody, but
especially for first time goingthrough this whole season, what
would you say to that mama, tojust prepare herself for what's
ahead?
Practical ways that she canprepare.
Crystal Doiron (31:24):
Sure.
So first thing I wanna say, thatit's not a guarantee that your
season is gonna be this rough,right?
Some people have difficultpregnancies, some people have
beautiful pregnancies.
Some people have difficult andtraumatic births, and some
people have beautiful, easy,uncomplicated births.
(31:45):
Some people have really dark andheavy postpartum periods, and
some people have a blissfulpostpartum bubble.
So please, if you're listeningto this, don't become anxious
that this will happen to you.
Just prepare in case it does getsupport so that it doesn't move
(32:06):
in that direction.
And if it does, move in thatdirection.
Know that there's nothing wrongwith you.
That this has a biologicalsource, it has a spiritual
source and that there's helpthat suffering is not failure.
I, in preparation for thisactually was looking at some
(32:28):
support options and there's fivemedical indicators that can be
really good to keep an eye on.
That can.
Provide some context for if thiswill develop or how intense it
will become.
So one is anemia.
So if you're noticing that youfeel really off post-birth, ask
(32:50):
your doctor to order labs.
First off, go to your doctor.
Like that six week appointmentis necessary, but that's not the
last one that you can have.
Go.
If you don't feel well, if youdon't feel right, keep going.
Ask them to follow up on this.
They may not pursue it on theirside, but you should pursue it
on your side.
(33:10):
So with anemia, there's lots oflabs that they can do and run to
make sure that you are not irondeficient to make sure that you
have the level that you need inyour body post birth.
You're gonna lose a lot of bloodand that can in and of itself
lead to, as your body's notwell, your, mind will process
that through anxiety anddepression.
That's a really good thing tofollow up on and, and get some
(33:32):
support for also thyroidproblems.
That can be a big indicator asyour thyroid adjusts, especially
if you're breastfeeding.
It's a really beneficial thingto get that checked out, to make
sure that your levels are wherewe want them to be.
Blood sugar regulation.
So again, especially if you'rebreastfeeding.
Your nutrition is so important.
(33:52):
It's so important.
And you need vitamins and thisis not medical advice.
Obviously talk to your doctor.
I'm sure they will say the samething.
But yeah, we need support.
You are not only just feedingyour own body, which is in
recovery.
But you are feeding a child andyou are spending so much more
energy.
So please don't prioritizeweight loss in that season.
(34:15):
Prioritize nutrition, prioritizetaking care of yourself.
You'll have the time later on inlife to get your body back to
what you want it to look like inthis season.
Just nourish yourself.
Make sure you're eating enough.
Make sure you're eating theright things.
Because nutrition does play suchan important role in mental
health.
(34:35):
And so that's another justmedical piece of, of what we
want our bodies to respond to.
Natalie Portman (34:42):
Before you continue on.
'cause I definitely wanna hearwhat else you have to say Sarah
Salain, I interviewed her acouple weeks ago and she helps
women heal from infertility andPCOS and endometriosis and all
these things.
But she helps women byunderstanding their cycle, which
obviously when you're postpartumyou don't have.
(35:03):
Your cycle quite yet, especiallyif you're breastfeeding.
But as you start to wean or ifyou decide not to breastfeed and
your cycle starts coming back itis very helpful because that's
your fifth vital sign, yourcycle, and it teaches you so
much about your hormonal balanceand just all these other things
that are happening in your body,which obviously is very much
(35:23):
tied to also your mental health.
But she recommends a book, it'scalled In the Flow, FLO, in the
Flow by Alyssa Viti.
And I'll put that in the shownotes too.
But for those who are eithertrying to get pregnant or
already have a cycle that'sstarting to return.
Definitely check out that book.
There's some like new ag stuffin there that I definitely don't
(35:44):
agree with, but for the mostpart, the just foundational
biological knowledge is soincredibly insightful.
Sorry,
Crystal Doiron (35:53):
That sounds like such a resource.
Yeah, no, thank you for sharingthat.
Okay, so the fourth one on yourlist was lack of sleep.
And there are obviously when youhave your baby, there will be
lack of sleep.
And this, what I'm about toshare is a little bit, you know,
the chicken or the egg complex.
Depression, postpartumdepression, and postpartum
anxiety.
(36:14):
Can lead to a lack of sleepbecause your body just cannot
rest.
You cannot release all of thethoughts that are ruminating,
all of the worries about thefuture.
Maybe it feels unsafe to sleep,like you need to watch your baby
24 7.
I experience that.
So that lack of sleep can becaused by these experiences, but
(36:37):
also then they induce them aextended lack of sleep.
Leads to neurological changesand how we process serotonin.
And if you're recognizing thatyou are far below your sleep
goals for a long period of time,it is okay to see if we can do
something to change that.
I was blessed my husband splitthe night period with me.
(37:00):
But if you don't have that ifyour life circumstances don't
allow for something like that.
Just put the need out there andwatch what the Lord does with
it.
It could be that someone in yourlife who you didn't expect is
willing to step up and watch thebaby while you take a nap.
It could be that maybe somefinances become available and
(37:21):
you can hire a postpartum doulawho helps you maybe get some
sleep.
There's so many things that canbe solutions to this and I can't
give you those solutions becauseI don't know your life.
But I can say that the Lordalways provides options if we
bring that need.
If you're recognizing anextended lack of sleep, we can
do something about that.
And then finally, lack ofsupport.
(37:42):
That's such an important pieceof what I see in our story.
Not because people weren'twilling.
You know, my family lives faraway, but Spencer's family is,
is nearby.
And they did offer support, butwe didn't know how to accept
that'cause we hadn't had anyhistory of really asking for
help or accepting help.
And so I think we kept lots ofpeople at arms length and tried
(38:05):
to convince them, no, it's fine.
And so finding ways that you cangradually receive support.
I'm not expecting you guys, youknow, as a therapist to just
dive right in and say, help me.
I'm struggling.
That's so scary for a person whotries to you know, achieve and
be good enough and, and keep astandard that's so hard to let
(38:28):
that out there.
And with anything that'sdifficult, but we know it's
worthwhile.
We can do a gradual exposure andso doing a tiny bit of release
and checking it and a tiny bitmore of release and checking it.
Learning that it is okay toengage this.
The Lord did not create us tooperate in vacuums.
He didn't create us to beoutside of community.
(38:50):
So I don't think that thatdesire comes from a holy place
to be hyper independent and tonot need others.
So challenge that if you can.
Natalie Portman (39:03):
I love that advice and a practical way that
you can even just think aboutthis for the postpartum time is
have a little sticky note thatyou put on your fridge with like
simple to do.
Unload the dishwasher, do a loadof clothes, walk the dog grab
some groceries, like whatever,staples.
(39:25):
Make a little list.
And when somebody comes to yourhome.
That offers, what can I do foryou?
Say there's a sticky note on thefridge and it has a couple
things on there, if you wouldn'tmind taking care of anything
that you're comfortable doing.
And also that helps kind ofgauge the people you're bringing
into your home, especially ifyou're trying to nurse.
(39:46):
And your boobs are out all thetime.
You're constantly nursing thatbaby, like it's a full-time job
and then some, and especially inthose first couple weeks and
months.
So if you're not comfortableinviting someone into your home
to see your boobs and.
You're comfortable asking to doone of those things on the list,
(40:09):
then don't invite that personinto your home yet.
That can be for later down theroad, but in that immediate
postpartum time where you are sovulnerable, only invite the
people that you are comfortablesharing that version of
yourself, that you know willlove you, and it's their joy.
To do X, Y, z from your little,to-do list because they wanna
(40:33):
love you and serve you.
And if you don't have that andyou are pregnant, start building
up that community.
And that can just be like a,couple girlfriends of yours,
like even if they've not hadkids, just a couple people that
you can invite into that time.
And we ended up not even doingthis.
I, I shared this in my storywith my son, where even though I
(40:54):
had another kid and all thethings, and I'm a doula, like I
should, I should know how totake care of myself postpartum.
And I absolutely did not.
I did not prioritize myselfwhatsoever, and we really,
really struggled and do what Isay, not what I do.
But, but that's, that's just alittle tip there of one way that
you could possibly invite thatcommunity and just that
(41:16):
practical help without youhaving to go above and beyond
out of your way to ask for help.
Because people who come to yourhome.
When you're newly postpartum arelikely gonna ask what can I do
to help?
And you can just simply say thatinstead of having to just come
up with something random on thefly or it feels like super
awkward to ask that, you know.
Crystal Doiron (41:35):
I love that, Natalie.
I love that idea so much.
Sometimes that first step is thehardest, right?
So coming up with that answerand, and that moment having all
the competing thoughts andemotions of.
Where do I even start with thelist of things to do and what's
appropriate to ask for and willthey even want to, and what will
(41:56):
they think of me?
All of that gets put aside with,there's a few sick notes on the
fridge you can pick if none ofthose work for you, let me know
what you're willing to do.
Gosh, that's such beautifuladvice.
I love that.
Natalie Portman (42:09):
Well, and the other part, because like I said,
I'm so perfectionistic.
Like for example, if I had puton.
There, someone just load thedishwasher.
I normally would behyper-focused on how someone
loaded the dishwasher and youcan't even go there when you're
postpartum.
Don't even care how they loadedup the dishwasher.
(42:29):
If they literally just throw itin there, slam the door and
start it that's fine.
Just.
You have to learn to let somethings go.
And something that I've beenworking through by learning the
Enneagram Suzanne Stabile,shares this phrase, what is mine
to do?
What is my thing to do and whatis your thing to do and what is
(42:51):
her thing to do?
But I need to ask myselfconstantly.
What is mine to do?
So that postpartum time, ifyou're breastfeeding yours to
do, is to breastfeed that babyand try to sleep and someone
else can put the baby to sleepand someone else can make you a
meal.
And your job is to just eat themeal.
You know, your job to do is,very limited and you can get
(43:14):
help with a lot of the rest ofit.
If you are willing to invitepeople into that area of need.
If we have another baby, I forsure am lining up a postpartum
doula and or babysitters to comehelp with the older kids.
I am going to ask for so muchmore help next time because it's
(43:35):
so needed.
And I definitely fell into thetrap of oh, I've got this.
I know what to expect and blah,blah, blah.
Uhuh, it was beyond a strugglefor us, and we really, it could
have been prevented, and not tosay like it's your fault if you
fall into that, but it's justthat level of we could have
definitely saved ourselves a lotof pain if we had done a little
(43:58):
bit more preparation to thinkthrough what our needs might be
at that time.
Crystal Doiron (44:03):
Absolutely.
And for some new mamas who maybethey're recognizing, I don't
have close friendships, I don'teven know how in the world we're
living in to create thosefriendships.
How do you meet people?
There are new mom groups almosteverywhere.
So again, putting that need outthere and allowing people to
(44:28):
point you in the rightdirection.
There's a directory calledPostpartum Support
International, and they have.
Support groups offered virtuallyon pretty much any topic you
could think of.
There's mom groups at thehospital that you deliver at.
There can be mom groups atchiropractor's office and
doctor's offices.
(44:48):
So I would just encourage you,seek them, right?
The Lord says if you, ask, Iwill answer.
Right?
If you, if you bring it to him,he's a good father.
He will bring you resources, butsometimes we just have to be
humble enough to say, God, Ineed your help with it.
Help me fill that gap.
And he will.
(45:10):
He really will.
Natalie Portman (45:12):
Yeah.
And I'll put in the show notessome of the postpartum
international resources and someeven of the mom groups and
things that I know of herelocally in Jacksonville,
Florida.
But you're right.
You know, if you don't alreadyhave that built in community,
another community is in yourchurch The Church of Eleven22 I
know Crystal, you go there aswell.
We have disciple groups and solike our disciple group would
(45:35):
also be a group of people that.
Have been in my shoes and thenot so recent past that I would
feel, you know, so loved bytheir support.
So if you're in a church and youdon't already have a small, just
group within your church ofpeople that you can turn to also
look into that.
But I, I love that you'resuggesting specific mom groups
(45:56):
because there is just somethingso special to be walking through
that journey right here and nowthat you're walking through,
they're also sleep deprived,like you and, and are, you know,
changing diapers in the middleof the night.
So I love that.
Well, crystal, if somebody wantsto connect with you to maybe
even work with you and, and docounseling or to bounce some
(46:17):
questions off of you, where canthey get ahold of you and
connect with you?
Crystal Doiron (46:21):
Absolutely.
So I work for a practice inJacksonville, Florida called
Seven Oaks Therapy.
And my email is a perfect way toget in touch with me.
Natalie can include that in theshow notes, but it's Crystal
C-R-Y-S-T-Al@sevenoakstherapy.com.
And I love getting questions.
(46:42):
I love working through this.
This is such a passion for mebecause.
As the Lord has brought me outof it, I want to equip and
resource as many people as I canto, see this be a beautiful
thing.
How the Lord can take you know,the dirt and, and make it
humanity.
How the Lord can takenothingness and, and create.
(47:03):
And so he can take these darkseasons and just make them so
worthwhile.
So please note even if you'vebeen going through postpartum
depression or anxiety, or evenif the season was not what you
hoped it would be, there's stillbeauty in that.
And take that to the Lord.
Take that brokenness, take thatdiscouragement, take that
(47:25):
hopelessness and bring it tohim.
And I promise you just watchwhat he does with it.
If you fully surrender, if youask him to fill that space.
Girl, he will, I promise you hewill.
And I got to see it firsthand inmy life over and over and over
again.
I've gotten to see the moms thatI've worked with come out of
this over and over and overagain.
(47:47):
One of my favorite things thatone of my clients has said to me
is, in the darkness of it, inthat postpartum period it felt
like I died and I'm supposed totake care of another living
human being.
And.
You know, we, we got to reallyhonor that feeling and process
through that.
But then, on the tail end, sheshared another quote.
(48:08):
She gave me permission to shareboth that it felt like I've
taken my first real breath ofair again.
And we can't do that toourselves.
We can't bring ourselves fromdeath back to life.
Only God can, that's what hedoes.
Please bring it to him.
Get therapy, get support.
You know, I've heard this, thatthere are so many.
Cogs in the machine that affectwhether or not you'll have this
(48:30):
season or how intense it willbe, or how long it will last.
And I would just encourage youto, do what you can for the
things you can control.
Make sure you're getting yournutrition, make sure you're
meeting your own biologicalneeds.
Seek help for your mental healthneeds without shame and
embarrassment, and for all thethings you can't control.
(48:53):
We're just gonna honor that thatmight not, not even be our
space, that that might be a spotthat's uniquely designed for the
Lord to show up so you can seehis love for you.
Natalie Portman (49:04):
Yes, absolutely.
And then I, in the interviewprocess, I have you fill out a
form and I loved the verse thatyou shared, so I'm gonna read
that this is from Lamentations 322 through 23.
The steadfast love of the Lordnever ceases.
His mercies never come to anend.
They are new every morning.
Great.
Is your faithfulness.
(49:25):
Can you share a little bitbefore we we leave why that has
just been especially meaningfulto you?
Crystal Doiron (49:33):
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
You know, sometimes we, read theBible just for understanding,
and I think a much morebeautiful way is to read the
Bible for connection.
And I remember as I was goingthrough the season and it was so
dark and it was up, you know,that tail end, the spring has
just started.
I'm starting to feel a littlebit like myself again, and I
came across that verse and itwas like the Lord was telling
(49:56):
me.
So personally to my heart, I'mwith you.
I'm not going anywhere.
I saw it all.
I was with you during it, and Iwill be with you in every step
moving forward, good or bad.
I see you.
I'm here with you.
I will never leave you.
Natalie Portman (50:14):
Yes.
Amen.
And it's so true because I thinkwe think it's up to us to hold
onto the Lord.
Like we need to be the onethat's clinging to him or else
he's just gonna leave us.
But it's absolutely theopposite.
He is the one that is holdingonto us when we are prone to
wander.
And so I love that.
Crystal, this has been anabsolute pleasure.
(50:36):
I am so thankful of just the waythe Lord has walked you through
your journey.
Unfortunately, it was a lot ofpain, but I know that.
All of this pain has been foryour good and his glory and just
praying that it blesses so, somany other mamas.
Thank you so much again.
Crystal Doiron (50:56):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me,Natalie.
Thank you.
Natalie Portman (50:58):
Of course.
Hey mama.
Welcome back to Faith Over Fear,the Christian Pregnancy and
Birth podcast.
Today's episode is going tospeak directly to the mom who's
quietly wrestling with sadness,anxiety, or even just that heavy
fog that won't seem to lift.
If that's you or someone youlove, I want you to know you're
not alone, and today'sconversation is filled with so
(01:07):
much grace and hope I'm honoredto welcome Crystal.
Do Iron to the podcast.
Crystal is a licensed clinicalsocial worker, a wife and a mama
to an 18 month old little boy.
She has years of experienceworking in trauma and recently
felt called to shift her focustowards serving women in the
perinatal and postpartumseasons.
(01:28):
Crystal's here today to help usrecognize the signs of perinatal
mood disorders, offer practicalsteps to begin healing, and
remind us that loving Jesusdoesn't mean you won't struggle
and struggling also doesn't makeyou a bad mom.
I know her story and insightsare going to bless you.
Crystal, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Crystal Doiron (01:50):
Hi, Natalie.
Thanks so much for having me.
Natalie Portman (01:52):
Of course.
Well, I would love to start withyour story.
Would you mind telling us aboutyour motherhood journey and also
what that postpartum season waslike for you?
Crystal Doiron (02:04):
Of course.
As I was going through our storyand sort of piecing this
together to be prepared fortoday so much of it still is a
fog because it was a fog then.
And so as we move through it,that like I think many moms will
relate to, it's a little bitclunky and a little bit messy.
And you know, that's, that'spart of.
(02:25):
What this feels like.
So it's part of what it soundslike.
So just full disclosure as wemove into it, that it might not
be a very neat story.
Natalie Portman (02:33):
I love that you're even just kind of saying,
it's okay if this whole journeyseems.
Chaotic and there's no linearflow to it, that it's a lot of
ups and downs and ups and downs,because that was certainly my
story.
I feel like I can't even thinkback to that time, like both
times my postpartum seasonsbecause it, it was just so
(02:55):
challenging for me that I don'teven remember a lot of it,
which, you know, in some ways ismaybe, coping.
Crystal Doiron (03:01):
I think the Lord provides that as a healing thing
for us as well.
That some of those sharperpieces or the darker pieces, we
just sort of get that lovelylittle haze later.
Because I, you know, you'veprobably heard this before too.
If we remembered all of it, weprobably would only have one
child.
Natalie Portman (03:18):
That is some Facts.
Yep.
Crystal Doiron (03:20):
Yeah.
But, so to, to start this Ithink I need to introduce a
little bit about my personalityand how that made me maybe more
vulnerable to postpartumdepression.
So I'm a very hyper independentperson.
If I can take care of my ownneeds, I will take care of my
own needs.
I'm a planner.
I love structure.
(03:41):
And so when we were pregnantwith Henry, which we did
experience some infertilitybefore we even became pregnant
with him for about two years andwe're about to start the process
of you know, getting help withthat and doing treatments.
And right when we were about tostart that process the Lord
blessed us and we had him reallywithout any assistance, which
(04:01):
was so cool.
But we were really motivated tohave this natural birth.
And so I read book after bookand I made not even a birth
plan, but a birth binder.
I hired a doula and I studiedhypnobirthing because I was
convinced that that was gonna bethe thing that would carry me
through this.
(04:21):
And in hindsight, now that I'mlooking back on it, that was the
beginning of me taking thisbirth in my own hands.
Not giving it to the Lord, I wasequipping myself.
Because it felt like if I couldfigure it out, if I could do it
the right way, it would be good.
And in hindsight, I'm justseeing that desperation to do
(04:42):
something that I wasn't calledto do, that I could have just
given that to the Lord andtrusted him.
Natalie Portman (04:46):
I relate to that so deeply.
And, and not so much with thebirth.
I, I, I can certainly seeaspects of that in my story, but
in other aspects of my life,like being a mother,
Crystal Doiron (04:59):
Yes.
Natalie Portman (04:59):
I'm, I am very much in that boat.
And so I love that vulnerabilitythat you're bringing to this
conversation because I think somany of us, especially as
believers, you know, Christianwomen, we, we can fall into that
trap of self-sufficiency andindependence, and it very easily
(05:23):
morphs and turns into relyingonly on ourselves.
And just kind of using the Lordas like a lucky charm instead of
actually trusting him that he isthe reason why we can go through
anything in this life.
So yeah, I, I deeply relate to,to that sentiment.
(05:44):
For me, it was in my mothering.
And the Lord is working througha lot of that in me.
But thank you for pointing thatout because I think that that's
a really important distinction.
Not just why you're preparingfor your birth, which is very,
that's very much needed.
You know, we do need to prepareour hearts and our minds, but if
we're doing it from a place ofso that I can handle this, so
(06:08):
that I can make this birthhappen the way that I want it
to.
We're doomed to fail becausethat's not at all the reality of
the situation.
You know, we are very much underthe Lord's plan and we need to
work on the posture of our heartto really see it that way
because the default is so easyto just go, to make it work.
(06:31):
Especially if you are that kindof personality type, like I'm
definitely that personality typeas well.
Crystal Doiron (06:35):
And I think, oh, I'm just so happy on the tail
end of it, not in the process.
'Cause the refining process wasnever comfortable.
But I'm so grateful to be on theside of it and see how God was
such a good father.
To let me fail to let me notsucceed in my endeavors, to do
(06:56):
it myself so that he could showhis care for me.
And.
It really is such a blessing tosee it now.
But when I was relying on me, itfelt like failure.
It felt like inadequacy, and itis inadequacy because I'm trying
to do something that I wasn'tcreated to do.
Not having birth, but relying onmy own strength we're not
(07:18):
designed to rely on our ownstrength like that.
Natalie Portman (07:20):
Couldn't agree more and I actually had, I was
in therapy.
After I had Ellie, before wewere trying to get pregnant with
Daniel because that was thething that the enemy kept
whispering to me, was like, youdon't have what it takes.
Who do you think you are to be amom?
Who do you think you are?
To think that you should haveanother one?
(07:43):
And those whispers were so darkand I, I believed them, even if
I could logically say like.
this is not right.
This is not what the fatherwould say about me, but I
believed that to my coresomehow.
And, and so it is very, it, likethe enemy's tactics are nothing
(08:03):
new.
They all look a littledifferently in our season.
And, and kind of like oursituation.
But he does say the same liesand that feeling of it's all on
you, boo.
It's up to you to make thingshappen.
If it doesn't happen, that'syour fault.
And nothing could be furtherfrom the truth, especially when
(08:24):
you think about something asmiraculous as conceiving
growing, birthing raising.
Another human being, it iscompletely miraculous.
And who do we think we are thatwe need to have it all figured
out?
Absolutely not.
It's a complete lie when wethink that.
Crystal Doiron (08:43):
Yeah, I remember a moment when we went for a
scan, I got to see.
Henry's brain and how it wasfunctioning during the scan.
And I got to see the chambers ofhis heart and how they were
pumping while he was stillgrowing inside of me and his
spinal cord and all of thevertebrae.
And I'm thinking in my head, I'mdoing nothing to grow him.
(09:07):
I am.
Eating complete junk, trying toeat healthy, but really doing
nothing, having no power fromgrowing.
And it took me to Psalms whereDavid is saying, you knit me
together in my mother's womb,and I'm looking at this scan and
seeing him doing that, and itwas such a humbling moment.
(09:27):
So as the pregnancy wasprogressing, I think that
desperation got stronger andstronger.
And I remember, you know, we hada birth binder, right?
And I didn't want Pitocin and Ididn't want an epidural, and I
didn't want any formula.
We wanted to have a naturalbirth and to breastfeed.
(09:47):
We had the whole thing mappedout and we went in for one of
those last, like weeklycheck-ins and they do a, test
and my blood pressure was toohigh and there were a couple
other indicators forpreeclampsia and they said,
guess what, mama, you're havingthis baby today.
And we didn't even have the bagwith us or anything.
(10:09):
So we got moved in and I saw theplan I had created, just start
crumbling because they weretrying to manage both the
inducement of labor and alsokeep the blood pressure low.
It ended up turning into fourdays of prodromal labor, and
effort after effort to inducethat just were painful and not
(10:31):
working.
And ended with getting Pitocin,which I didn't want getting an
epidural, which I didn't want.
It ended up being a C-sectionand I remember lying there.
After, you know, they, they wereable to get him out and, my
husband and I had decided wewanted someone to stay with the
baby at all times if possible inthe hospital.
(10:54):
So they take Henry to go beweighed and cleaned, and Spencer
goes with him, Spencer's myhusband.
And I remember laying there andjust feeling so empty and alone.
And I'm sure that moment wasonly for maybe a minute tops,
but it felt like it lastedforever.
It was so sterile and so justcold.
(11:20):
And I remember thinking.
This isn't how it is in themovies.
In the movies, you have yourbaby and you hold them and you
look at them and you cry out oflove.
And I am in so much pain and heis, he's beautiful.
And I remember this sort of.
Messy processing of, oh, it'sover.
(11:43):
Oh, we did it.
Oh, but I didn't really do it.
They had to do this operationbecause I couldn't do it.
And look how beautiful he is andall the kind of competing
thoughts and feelings there.
And I.
What happened after was evenmessier because because we had
the C-section, we had to stay inthe hospital for a little
longer, and then his bilirubinlevels were high, so we had to
(12:07):
stay longer for that.
And this moment makes me, itjust makes my heartbreak.
I finally was able to get tosleep.
My husband's holding her son andone thing that we're gonna cover
today is what postpartum canlook like for dads because
there's not a lot ofconversations about that either.
And he is holding her son andhe's so scared that something's
(12:29):
wrong because we've gottenthrough this whole process of
something being wrong.
So he goes to seek just some,some comfort from a nurse and,
this nurse immediately asks him,well, did you drop the baby?
And you know, then he getsreally kind of defensive and
flustered no, of course not.
I just wanna make sure he isokay.
And then she starts pushingformula because maybe he's not
(12:52):
eating enough breast milkbecause our breast milk hasn't
come in and.
He's so scared that he's okay,whatever.
We need to take care of him.
And while I'm asleep, he makesthe decision that we're gonna
start formula.
And I remember I woke up and Iheard this and I felt so
betrayed.
And we had such a strong bond,our whole relationship, so much
(13:15):
that people thought it was likefake sometimes so mushy.
You know, but we, I love him somuch and I still do, but this
was just a moment early in thatprocess where we had that break
and that division and he, Ithink he would do it again and I
would want him to, but also itjust felt like the last thing we
were holding onto that we couldhave made happen.
(13:36):
And then that was taken away andI felt so low.
I just was basically sobbingenough in the bed like.
I guess it's over.
Like nothing worked and wefailed.
And that's just how it is.
And there were so many wonderfulpeople.
You know, there's this one nursewho made it a little bit worse,
(13:56):
but there were so many peoplewho tried to make it better.
Family who tried to visit and wedidn't really know how to fold
them in.
And my mom, she's not fromFlorida where we are she's in
North Carolina, drove eighthours to spend like one morning
with us before.
Things got complicated withmedical stuff and the lactation
specialist who came in who toldme that even though we started
(14:19):
Formula, we could stillbreastfeed, it still could work.
And you know, there were so manypeople who were adding good to
it, but I think the heaviness ofit all was just so loud.
So I'm gonna fast forward alittle bit.
We had several days, even afterwe were released for the
C-section and the bilirubinwhere then we had to go back to
(14:41):
the children's hospital to do ascreening for him.
That ended up being a falsepositive.
He was fine, praise the Lord.
And then I had to go back to thehospital for blood pressure
concerns.
And we were just so defeated.
As I've studied postpartumdepression and perinatal mood
and anxiety disorders, how your.
(15:02):
Getting medical help afterwards,getting those screenings,
getting your lab works done.
Getting follow up is reallyimportant, but because we had
such a terrible experience withhospitals and doctors, I was
just avoiding that so intensely.
And so I wasn't seeking carelike I should have.
So at this point in the story,we're home.
And.
(15:23):
I know I'm not okay physically Idon't know if you've had a
c-section, but that weakness youfeel just even moving, walking
around.
And I've never experienced that,so that was very shocking.
My husband, again is carryinghis own anxiety and, and trauma
response to what happened.
And so he's just so devoted toour baby.
(15:44):
I remember thinking, there's noroom for me not to be.
Okay, so just suck it up, girl.
Deal with it.
And I kept it quiet and I didn'ttell him when I was struggling
physically.
Uh, We had a whole monthtogether.
My husband got a whole month offof work which in hindsight it's
oh, four weeks is not, but Iknow that's a blessing, so I'm
grateful for it.
But then when he went back,that's when I started to realize
(16:06):
that I was not okay emotionallyeither.
But again, that really loudvoice, there's just not room to
not be.
Okay.
Really just sort of entered intowhat I call like the hamster
wheel of just moving and movingand moving.
There's things you have to do.
You have to take care of baby,get them to sleep, feed him,
change his diaper, get'em tosleep, feed him, change his
(16:28):
diaper, read to'em, help himgrow and go through, this
lowness and again, that feelingof inadequacy.
Because not only was this mythoughts that were inducing
this, but now my hormone shiftshave led to this and all of the
biological responses to having atraumatic birth.
So to wrap it up, it ended upbeing a very long season of some
(16:51):
very intense struggles.
I tried to return to work andnavigate what that looks like.
You know, we didn't want Henryin daycare and so we were trying
to sort of do shift workparenting.
I would keep him when my husbandwas at work and then he would
keep Henry when I was at work.
Then we would split up thenighttime, which again is a huge
blessing.
The moms don't have that at all,but we were each other's biggest
(17:14):
resources and now we reallyweren't available to each other
because the way we had to makethat work in that season.
It was very emotionally low.
It was very isolating.
And I didn't even really noticethat it felt so low, it just
didn't feel right.
And it wasn't till later that Irealized how deep and intense it
had gotten and the moment that Ireally realized something was
(17:39):
deeply wrong.
I remember I was driving andHenry was in the backseat.
And at this point I had, youknow, read, okay, it's a good
thing to be out in the sunlight.
Go for walks, you know, go get'em out.
And so we were driving home fromone of our walks and I started
thinking in my mind, well,clearly I'm very bad at this.
I'm not meant to be a mom.
I thought I was my whole life.
(18:00):
Clearly I wasn't meant to be.
I'm no good at it.
They'll probably be better offwithout me.
And I started legitimatelythinking through what it would
be like to take my life.
As a mental health professionalthat scared the mess out of me.
I was terrified once I kind oflike recognized that it had
gotten to that point and thatwas the wake up call.
(18:23):
So I started to look up whathelp was out there, what could
be available.
I found a therapist and westarted working together and it
happened to coincide with somedecisions I made that were
healthier for us.
So we stopped co-sleeping atabout eight months.
We stopped breastfeeding atabout eight months and getting
that autonomy of my body back Ithink was a big piece.
(18:46):
I started taking my vitaminsagain.
I started really prioritizing myhealth.
And my therapist was so great atwalking me through that.
It wasn't selfish to take careof myself.
It was being a good mom toreally prioritize that.
And so that was really whenthings started to shift and
change.
I started to pray again.
(19:07):
I don't know if in that darkseason if I actually prayed.
I'm sure I did, but I don'tthink I was truly connecting
with the Lord.
And so when I started to seethings change, it was like when
the sun just starts to come backout or when it starts to, I like
to call.
(19:27):
As I work with clients now thisseason of like winter, right?
And as winter fades into springand things slowly start to come
back to life, that's what itfelt like.
So I was sitting in the caragain.
I was wanting to hug my husbandagain.
I was wanting to put on prettyclothes again and take care of
myself again.
(19:48):
We were exiting that season.
Natalie Portman (19:50):
Thank you so much for sharing that and, and I
got so teary eyed.
When you shared just the depthof that darkness.
I, myself have definitely beenthere.
In the very recent past havebeen there.
And it is a really scary placeto be because, you know, it's a
lie.
Sorry, I'm trying not to getsuper emotional, but Yeah.
You know, it's a lie.
(20:10):
But you still, you still fallinto that and, and if you're a
mom listening to this and you,you have been in that space, or
you know, someone you love who'sbeen in that space, seek help.
Because it's so easy to beisolated and it's so easy to
(20:32):
focus on.
Your kids your spouse, yourwork, and not prioritize
yourself like you mentioned.
And that's the place that I, Ihad to get to was here I am
working with women,
Crystal Doiron (20:48):
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Portman (20:48):
working with them as somebody who is
informing them and loving themand serving them, but I can't
even do that to myself.
And every time I would do somesort of, you know, self care, go
get my nails done or something,the enemy would just be like,
you're so selfish.
You know, you're, how, how dareyou do that?
(21:11):
And I know so many other womenhave, have likely experienced
that.
And so thank you for sharingthat because it is a very scary,
vulnerable place to be.
But I think.
When we kind of hit those lows,we start to realize something's
(21:31):
not right.
And again, if this is you, ifthis has ever been you, or look
out for these signs, if you knowyou haven't experienced this
yet, maybe you're still pregnantwith your first child and you
haven't walked this kind ofseason yet, be prepared.
That the enemy is going to tryto throw this your way,
potentially at some point andsay, no we're not doing this.
(21:55):
We're not messing around withthis.
And so I, I definitely have beentaking very active steps to move
away from that because it isit's something that requires a
lot of attention andintentionality To get out of
that season.
And, I can only speak,personally as somebody who has
walked through that, but as aprofessional, if there is a mom
(22:18):
listening to this or she knowssomebody she loves a friend or a
sister or somebody she knowsthat is walking through
perinatal mood, disorders and,and depression and all the
things.
What would you say to that MamaCrystal?
That that would be practicalsteps for her to come out of
that season?
Crystal Doiron (22:39):
Oh my goodness.
Well, first, Natalie, thank youfor sharing your story.
I wanna highlight too thatyou're creating this space to
provide resources, right?
And you are equipped justbecause the Lord has called you
to it.
So thank you for sharing that.
I wanna really honor that.
So yeah, so for a mom who isrecognizing oh, maybe I'm there,
(23:00):
or maybe I know someone who'sthere, I would just let them
know that there's so muchstrength and vulnerability that
no one is expecting you to dothis perfectly, and no one is
expecting you to do this withcomplete excellence, without
failing.
Anything we do for the firsttime, we're going to struggle at
(23:22):
when we learn to walk.
We stumble and fall, when welearn to speak, when we learn to
write, when we learn to doanything in our entire lives,
there's a margin of error andlots and lots and lots of
failure, and I think it is a liefrom the enemy that if you are
not perfect.
If you don't like with me withmy story, if you can't make it
(23:46):
all go according to plan, thenclearly you are just not called
for this.
You should just give up.
And that is not at all thegospel.
We see the Lord over and overand over again use imperfect
people, right?
There's not a perfect person inthe Bible except for Jesus.
And I think it's so beautifulbecause we see him use broken
(24:08):
people.
We see him use.
Sinful people.
We see him use struggling peopleand sometimes awful people to do
the will of God, and he wouldnot have given you this child if
he didn't plan for you tospecifically nurture that child
into who he has designed them tobe.
So if you are in a season ofstruggling, if you know someone
(24:30):
who's in a season of struggling,just provide that comfort that
it is strong to admit thatthere's a gap there.
And the Lord fills that, andother people can fill that.
People cannot help you if theydon't know you have a need.
And when you're able to bevulnerable and share that space,
I can't make all of these mealsand people can bring some, I
(24:54):
can't keep my head above waterright now, and people can
provide encouragement.
Maybe they come over and providesome things.
I've noticed people are reallyscared of.
Like imposing themselves andover overstepping or intruding.
So sometimes it takes thatvulnerability to get the support
that you need.
(25:14):
So yeah, that was a lot of wordsto basically say if you're at
that season, good, now we canopen up some change.
Now we can get some support andhelp this feel better.
Natalie Portman (25:27):
That's such great advice and that was a big
piece for me as I've beenwalking through this was just
like reaching out to somebodyand just instead of I.
Hearing the very loud, negativeself-talk.
If you're familiar with theEnneagram, I'm type one, I'm the
perfectionist.
(25:48):
And so we call it the innercritic.
And so my inner critic can bevery, very harsh with me, but
this, you know, dealing with thedepression that I've been in
was, you know, definitely likethe enemy as well, like just
dark, horrible voices.
But I would, just go, okay, whocan I talk to that will speak
life into me?
(26:08):
And I would call my sisters.
I would call my mom.
I would call a friend, and Iwould just lay it all out there
and, and just a simple phonecall of this is where I'm at.
And they would speak life intome and they would always offer
to pray for me.
So something even as simple asthat can make such a powerful
connection to just remindyourself of the truth of the
(26:32):
gospel that yes, you areinadequate.
I love when you said that it,it's not that the enemy is like
telling you a straight up lie.
He's always going to veil it insome kind of half truth.
And the truth is, you are in andof yourself not equipped to do
all of the things, but the Lordhas not called you to do.
(26:53):
All of the things he has calledyou to faithfully be a mama who
loves Jesus, who is helping yourlittle babies also love Jesus.
And you cannot expect yourselfto do everything all the time.
Perfectly.
And that's where I get hung upis when I feel like I haven't
done something perfectly thatI'm like, screw it.
(27:14):
Like we're just gonna throw outthe whole thing.
I just wanna be done with it.
'cause it didn't do it.
Right.
You know?
And, and so that's where it, youhave to just have those kind of
go-to people.
In your life that will helpremind you.
And if it's not an actualtherapist, just have your friend
have some sort of network thatyou know you can reach out to.
(27:35):
Because it is, it goes a longway to just remind yourself of
what is true when you're, allyou hear is a lie.
Crystal Doiron (27:43):
Yeah, I had a coworker at the time, her name
is Stephanie, and she is so boldin her support.
And so what I mean by that is I,at work, my go-to line was, oh,
things are great.
Henry's growing things aregreat.
And she could just see rightthrough that.
And she's a very no-nonsensekind of girl.
(28:05):
And so she could even recognizewhen I wasn't taking my
vitamins.
She said, Hmm, you're not takingyour prenatals anymore, are you?
And I said, how can you tell?
How do you know?
And she said, oh, well, you'relooking a little gray and you
know, I can, I, she just was soobservant and so bold in her
love and support and.
(28:27):
That kind of broke through thatillusion I was trying to create
that it was okay and I was okayand, you know, nobody needed to
worry'cause I didn't wanna putthat on anybody.
And she just slammed rightthrough that.
And I just am so grateful as Ilook back on that, that she was
able to break through what, forme, felt protective, but
(28:49):
actually was harming me, keepingpeople out.
Keeping people in the dark.
So I'm so grateful.
And if you don't have aStephanie, be one.
Right.
Be the person who's so observantand so love filled that the
(29:10):
niceties and posture of, okay,well that's great.
And if you need anything, let meknow.
Show up, bring the meals, and ifyou overstepped.
That's one thing that's, youknow, but I would much rather
overstep than miss someone'sneed and have them suffer.
So that totally shifted myperspective for how to support
(29:33):
other people because I am notthat bold.
But now I have sort of becomethat way because of what I
experienced through her.
Natalie Portman (29:41):
Yeah, the number of times where I've had a
friend who had a child after mewho would say something to the
effect of.
If I had known you were goingthrough this, I would have done
this, that and the other, but Ihad no idea.
But I also keep my pain and mysuffering to myself because I
(30:01):
don't wanna be a burden toanybody else.
Or it's also me just trying tolike.
Stuff it deep down, like I don'teven wanna deal with these
feelings of inadequacyconstantly.
The sadness I feel, the griefI'm feeling that I'm not the mom
that I was hoping I would be orI haven't, I, I'm just not who I
(30:24):
thought I would be at this pointor something like that.
But I mean, for the mom who'slistening, who, like we've been
talking about, hasn't walkedthrough this before, like this
is her first pregnancy, whatwould you say to her to prepare
herself for what's ahead?
Because I, I think it's normaland natural to expect some form
(30:46):
of this.
This, okay, here's myexpectation and here's the
reality, and there's a gapthere.
I think all of us, whether it'sthe pregnancy.
You know, if it's not a smoothpregnancy, the birth, the
postpartum time, the toddlerphase, I mean, at some point
you're gonna, there, you'regonna realize there's a gap from
the expectation and whatactually happens.
(31:08):
So how can, I mean, I guess thiswould be for anybody, but
especially for first time goingthrough this whole season, what
would you say to that mama, tojust prepare herself for what's
ahead?
Practical ways that she canprepare.
Crystal Doiron (31:24):
Sure.
So first thing I wanna say, thatit's not a guarantee that your
season is gonna be this rough,right?
Some people have difficultpregnancies, some people have
beautiful pregnancies.
Some people have difficult andtraumatic births, and some
people have beautiful, easy,uncomplicated births.
(31:45):
Some people have really dark andheavy postpartum periods, and
some people have a blissfulpostpartum bubble.
So please, if you're listeningto this, don't become anxious
that this will happen to you.
Just prepare in case it does getsupport so that it doesn't move
(32:06):
in that direction.
And if it does, move in thatdirection.
Know that there's nothing wrongwith you.
That this has a biologicalsource, it has a spiritual
source and that there's helpthat suffering is not failure.
I, in preparation for thisactually was looking at some
(32:28):
support options and there's fivemedical indicators that can be
really good to keep an eye on.
That can.
Provide some context for if thiswill develop or how intense it
will become.
So one is anemia.
So if you're noticing that youfeel really off post-birth, ask
(32:50):
your doctor to order labs.
First off, go to your doctor.
Like that six week appointmentis necessary, but that's not the
last one that you can have.
Go.
If you don't feel well, if youdon't feel right, keep going.
Ask them to follow up on this.
They may not pursue it on theirside, but you should pursue it
on your side.
(33:10):
So with anemia, there's lots oflabs that they can do and run to
make sure that you are not irondeficient to make sure that you
have the level that you need inyour body post birth.
You're gonna lose a lot of bloodand that can in and of itself
lead to, as your body's notwell, your, mind will process
that through anxiety anddepression.
That's a really good thing tofollow up on and, and get some
(33:32):
support for also thyroidproblems.
That can be a big indicator asyour thyroid adjusts, especially
if you're breastfeeding.
It's a really beneficial thingto get that checked out, to make
sure that your levels are wherewe want them to be.
Blood sugar regulation.
So again, especially if you'rebreastfeeding.
Your nutrition is so important.
(33:52):
It's so important.
And you need vitamins and thisis not medical advice.
Obviously talk to your doctor.
I'm sure they will say the samething.
But yeah, we need support.
You are not only just feedingyour own body, which is in
recovery.
But you are feeding a child andyou are spending so much more
energy.
So please don't prioritizeweight loss in that season.
(34:15):
Prioritize nutrition, prioritizetaking care of yourself.
You'll have the time later on inlife to get your body back to
what you want it to look like inthis season.
Just nourish yourself.
Make sure you're eating enough.
Make sure you're eating theright things.
Because nutrition does play suchan important role in mental
health.
(34:35):
And so that's another justmedical piece of, of what we
want our bodies to respond to.
Natalie Portman (34:42):
Before you continue on.
'cause I definitely wanna hearwhat else you have to say Sarah
Salain, I interviewed her acouple weeks ago and she helps
women heal from infertility andPCOS and endometriosis and all
these things.
But she helps women byunderstanding their cycle, which
obviously when you're postpartumyou don't have.
(35:03):
Your cycle quite yet, especiallyif you're breastfeeding.
But as you start to wean or ifyou decide not to breastfeed and
your cycle starts coming back itis very helpful because that's
your fifth vital sign, yourcycle, and it teaches you so
much about your hormonal balanceand just all these other things
that are happening in your body,which obviously is very much
(35:23):
tied to also your mental health.
But she recommends a book, it'scalled In the Flow, FLO, in the
Flow by Alyssa Viti.
And I'll put that in the shownotes too.
But for those who are eithertrying to get pregnant or
already have a cycle that'sstarting to return.
Definitely check out that book.
There's some like new ag stuffin there that I definitely don't
(35:44):
agree with, but for the mostpart, the just foundational
biological knowledge is soincredibly insightful.
Sorry,
Crystal Doiron (35:53):
That sounds like such a resource.
Yeah, no, thank you for sharingthat.
Okay, so the fourth one on yourlist was lack of sleep.
And there are obviously when youhave your baby, there will be
lack of sleep.
And this, what I'm about toshare is a little bit, you know,
the chicken or the egg complex.
Depression, postpartumdepression, and postpartum
anxiety.
(36:14):
Can lead to a lack of sleepbecause your body just cannot
rest.
You cannot release all of thethoughts that are ruminating,
all of the worries about thefuture.
Maybe it feels unsafe to sleep,like you need to watch your baby
24 7.
I experience that.
So that lack of sleep can becaused by these experiences, but
(36:37):
also then they induce them aextended lack of sleep.
Leads to neurological changesand how we process serotonin.
And if you're recognizing thatyou are far below your sleep
goals for a long period of time,it is okay to see if we can do
something to change that.
I was blessed my husband splitthe night period with me.
(37:00):
But if you don't have that ifyour life circumstances don't
allow for something like that.
Just put the need out there andwatch what the Lord does with
it.
It could be that someone in yourlife who you didn't expect is
willing to step up and watch thebaby while you take a nap.
It could be that maybe somefinances become available and
(37:21):
you can hire a postpartum doulawho helps you maybe get some
sleep.
There's so many things that canbe solutions to this and I can't
give you those solutions becauseI don't know your life.
But I can say that the Lordalways provides options if we
bring that need.
If you're recognizing anextended lack of sleep, we can
do something about that.
And then finally, lack ofsupport.
(37:42):
That's such an important pieceof what I see in our story.
Not because people weren'twilling.
You know, my family lives faraway, but Spencer's family is,
is nearby.
And they did offer support, butwe didn't know how to accept
that'cause we hadn't had anyhistory of really asking for
help or accepting help.
And so I think we kept lots ofpeople at arms length and tried
(38:05):
to convince them, no, it's fine.
And so finding ways that you cangradually receive support.
I'm not expecting you guys, youknow, as a therapist to just
dive right in and say, help me.
I'm struggling.
That's so scary for a person whotries to you know, achieve and
be good enough and, and keep astandard that's so hard to let
(38:28):
that out there.
And with anything that'sdifficult, but we know it's
worthwhile.
We can do a gradual exposure andso doing a tiny bit of release
and checking it and a tiny bitmore of release and checking it.
Learning that it is okay toengage this.
The Lord did not create us tooperate in vacuums.
He didn't create us to beoutside of community.
(38:50):
So I don't think that thatdesire comes from a holy place
to be hyper independent and tonot need others.
So challenge that if you can.
Natalie Portman (39:03):
I love that advice and a practical way that
you can even just think aboutthis for the postpartum time is
have a little sticky note thatyou put on your fridge with like
simple to do.
Unload the dishwasher, do a loadof clothes, walk the dog grab
some groceries, like whatever,staples.
(39:25):
Make a little list.
And when somebody comes to yourhome.
That offers, what can I do foryou?
Say there's a sticky note on thefridge and it has a couple
things on there, if you wouldn'tmind taking care of anything
that you're comfortable doing.
And also that helps kind ofgauge the people you're bringing
into your home, especially ifyou're trying to nurse.
(39:46):
And your boobs are out all thetime.
You're constantly nursing thatbaby, like it's a full-time job
and then some, and especially inthose first couple weeks and
months.
So if you're not comfortableinviting someone into your home
to see your boobs and.
You're comfortable asking to doone of those things on the list,
(40:09):
then don't invite that personinto your home yet.
That can be for later down theroad, but in that immediate
postpartum time where you are sovulnerable, only invite the
people that you are comfortablesharing that version of
yourself, that you know willlove you, and it's their joy.
To do X, Y, z from your little,to-do list because they wanna
(40:33):
love you and serve you.
And if you don't have that andyou are pregnant, start building
up that community.
And that can just be like a,couple girlfriends of yours,
like even if they've not hadkids, just a couple people that
you can invite into that time.
And we ended up not even doingthis.
I, I shared this in my storywith my son, where even though I
(40:54):
had another kid and all thethings, and I'm a doula, like I
should, I should know how totake care of myself postpartum.
And I absolutely did not.
I did not prioritize myselfwhatsoever, and we really,
really struggled and do what Isay, not what I do.
But, but that's, that's just alittle tip there of one way that
you could possibly invite thatcommunity and just that
(41:16):
practical help without youhaving to go above and beyond
out of your way to ask for help.
Because people who come to yourhome.
When you're newly postpartum arelikely gonna ask what can I do
to help?
And you can just simply say thatinstead of having to just come
up with something random on thefly or it feels like super
awkward to ask that, you know.
Crystal Doiron (41:35):
I love that, Natalie.
I love that idea so much.
Sometimes that first step is thehardest, right?
So coming up with that answerand, and that moment having all
the competing thoughts andemotions of.
Where do I even start with thelist of things to do and what's
appropriate to ask for and willthey even want to, and what will
(41:56):
they think of me?
All of that gets put aside with,there's a few sick notes on the
fridge you can pick if none ofthose work for you, let me know
what you're willing to do.
Gosh, that's such beautifuladvice.
I love that.
Natalie Portman (42:09):
Well, and the other part, because like I said,
I'm so perfectionistic.
Like for example, if I had puton.
There, someone just load thedishwasher.
I normally would behyper-focused on how someone
loaded the dishwasher and youcan't even go there when you're
postpartum.
Don't even care how they loadedup the dishwasher.
(42:29):
If they literally just throw itin there, slam the door and
start it that's fine.
Just.
You have to learn to let somethings go.
And something that I've beenworking through by learning the
Enneagram Suzanne Stabile,shares this phrase, what is mine
to do?
What is my thing to do and whatis your thing to do and what is
(42:51):
her thing to do?
But I need to ask myselfconstantly.
What is mine to do?
So that postpartum time, ifyou're breastfeeding yours to
do, is to breastfeed that babyand try to sleep and someone
else can put the baby to sleepand someone else can make you a
meal.
And your job is to just eat themeal.
You know, your job to do is,very limited and you can get
(43:14):
help with a lot of the rest ofit.
If you are willing to invitepeople into that area of need.
If we have another baby, I forsure am lining up a postpartum
doula and or babysitters to comehelp with the older kids.
I am going to ask for so muchmore help next time because it's
(43:35):
so needed.
And I definitely fell into thetrap of oh, I've got this.
I know what to expect and blah,blah, blah.
Uhuh, it was beyond a strugglefor us, and we really, it could
have been prevented, and not tosay like it's your fault if you
fall into that, but it's justthat level of we could have
definitely saved ourselves a lotof pain if we had done a little
(43:58):
bit more preparation to thinkthrough what our needs might be
at that time.
Crystal Doiron (44:03):
Absolutely.
And for some new mamas who maybethey're recognizing, I don't
have close friendships, I don'teven know how in the world we're
living in to create thosefriendships.
How do you meet people?
There are new mom groups almosteverywhere.
So again, putting that need outthere and allowing people to
(44:28):
point you in the rightdirection.
There's a directory calledPostpartum Support
International, and they have.
Support groups offered virtuallyon pretty much any topic you
could think of.
There's mom groups at thehospital that you deliver at.
There can be mom groups atchiropractor's office and
doctor's offices.
(44:48):
So I would just encourage you,seek them, right?
The Lord says if you, ask, Iwill answer.
Right?
If you, if you bring it to him,he's a good father.
He will bring you resources, butsometimes we just have to be
humble enough to say, God, Ineed your help with it.
Help me fill that gap.
And he will.
(45:10):
He really will.
Natalie Portman (45:12):
Yeah.
And I'll put in the show notessome of the postpartum
international resources and someeven of the mom groups and
things that I know of herelocally in Jacksonville,
Florida.
But you're right.
You know, if you don't alreadyhave that built in community,
another community is in yourchurch The Church of Eleven22 I
know Crystal, you go there aswell.
We have disciple groups and solike our disciple group would
(45:35):
also be a group of people that.
Have been in my shoes and thenot so recent past that I would
feel, you know, so loved bytheir support.
So if you're in a church and youdon't already have a small, just
group within your church ofpeople that you can turn to also
look into that.
But I, I love that you'resuggesting specific mom groups
(45:56):
because there is just somethingso special to be walking through
that journey right here and nowthat you're walking through,
they're also sleep deprived,like you and, and are, you know,
changing diapers in the middleof the night.
So I love that.
Well, crystal, if somebody wantsto connect with you to maybe
even work with you and, and docounseling or to bounce some
(46:17):
questions off of you, where canthey get ahold of you and
connect with you?
Crystal Doiron (46:21):
Absolutely.
So I work for a practice inJacksonville, Florida called
Seven Oaks Therapy.
And my email is a perfect way toget in touch with me.
Natalie can include that in theshow notes, but it's Crystal
C-R-Y-S-T-Al@sevenoakstherapy.com.
And I love getting questions.
(46:42):
I love working through this.
This is such a passion for mebecause.
As the Lord has brought me outof it, I want to equip and
resource as many people as I canto, see this be a beautiful
thing.
How the Lord can take you know,the dirt and, and make it
humanity.
How the Lord can takenothingness and, and create.
(47:03):
And so he can take these darkseasons and just make them so
worthwhile.
So please note even if you'vebeen going through postpartum
depression or anxiety, or evenif the season was not what you
hoped it would be, there's stillbeauty in that.
And take that to the Lord.
Take that brokenness, take thatdiscouragement, take that
(47:25):
hopelessness and bring it tohim.
And I promise you just watchwhat he does with it.
If you fully surrender, if youask him to fill that space.
Girl, he will, I promise you hewill.
And I got to see it firsthand inmy life over and over and over
again.
I've gotten to see the moms thatI've worked with come out of
this over and over and overagain.
(47:47):
One of my favorite things thatone of my clients has said to me
is, in the darkness of it, inthat postpartum period it felt
like I died and I'm supposed totake care of another living
human being.
And.
You know, we, we got to reallyhonor that feeling and process
through that.
But then, on the tail end, sheshared another quote.
(48:08):
She gave me permission to shareboth that it felt like I've
taken my first real breath ofair again.
And we can't do that toourselves.
We can't bring ourselves fromdeath back to life.
Only God can, that's what hedoes.
Please bring it to him.
Get therapy, get support.
You know, I've heard this, thatthere are so many.
Cogs in the machine that affectwhether or not you'll have this
(48:30):
season or how intense it willbe, or how long it will last.
And I would just encourage youto, do what you can for the
things you can control.
Make sure you're getting yournutrition, make sure you're
meeting your own biologicalneeds.
Seek help for your mental healthneeds without shame and
embarrassment, and for all thethings you can't control.
(48:53):
We're just gonna honor that thatmight not, not even be our
space, that that might be a spotthat's uniquely designed for the
Lord to show up so you can seehis love for you.
Natalie Portman (49:04):
Yes, absolutely.
And then I, in the interviewprocess, I have you fill out a
form and I loved the verse thatyou shared, so I'm gonna read
that this is from Lamentations 322 through 23.
The steadfast love of the Lordnever ceases.
His mercies never come to anend.
They are new every morning.
Great.
Is your faithfulness.
(49:25):
Can you share a little bitbefore we we leave why that has
just been especially meaningfulto you?
Crystal Doiron (49:33):
Oh my goodness.
Yes.
You know, sometimes we, read theBible just for understanding,
and I think a much morebeautiful way is to read the
Bible for connection.
And I remember as I was goingthrough the season and it was so
dark and it was up, you know,that tail end, the spring has
just started.
I'm starting to feel a littlebit like myself again, and I
came across that verse and itwas like the Lord was telling
(49:56):
me.
So personally to my heart, I'mwith you.
I'm not going anywhere.
I saw it all.
I was with you during it, and Iwill be with you in every step
moving forward, good or bad.
I see you.
I'm here with you.
I will never leave you.
Natalie Portman (50:14):
Yes.
Amen.
And it's so true because I thinkwe think it's up to us to hold
onto the Lord.
Like we need to be the onethat's clinging to him or else
he's just gonna leave us.
But it's absolutely theopposite.
He is the one that is holdingonto us when we are prone to
wander.
And so I love that.
Crystal, this has been anabsolute pleasure.
(50:36):
I am so thankful of just the waythe Lord has walked you through
your journey.
Unfortunately, it was a lot ofpain, but I know that.
All of this pain has been foryour good and his glory and just
praying that it blesses so, somany other mamas.
Thank you so much again.
Crystal Doiron (50:56):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me,Natalie.
Thank you.
Natalie Portman (50:58):
Of course.
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