All We Imagine As Light (2024)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Oh, I can tell you that we're falling apart

(00:04):
By the way that we used to be
No matter the distance I've come to you
Deep down inside of me

(00:43):
Hi, I'm Winnie the Desi who's never been to India
Hi, I'm Killy, I'm from India and I love films
My name is Nicky, the loneliest Thai in a very lonely city called Bangkok
Wow, I'm Adam, I'm really popular in America, not lonely whatsoever
Today I learned that Indians are snobs with their own movies

(01:08):
You just learned that after watching so many films with Killy?
That's true, I thought Killy was like a one-off here
In fact, actually Killy, as a snob, you should have liked this
Yeah, I loved this film
No, no, because Winnie, what you're saying, the generic consensus from the online world

(01:31):
It's like it's overhyped or something
They don't even know what we're talking about
We didn't even say what we were talking about
Just diving right in
So yes, what is this overhyped film? Supposedly overhyped
So for a change, we're doing something very modern, very recent

(01:52):
It's a 2024 film
It's not your typical Indian film, I would say
It's called All We Imagine as Light
What's impressive is that this film has had a lot of accolades to its name
I'm looking this up

(02:13):
It says here that the film has had its world premiere at the Cannes Film Festival last year
Where it was nominated for the Palm d'Or and won the Grand Prix
Which is like the second most prestigious award
And the first Indian film to do so
And the first Indian film to do so since 1994, apparently
And it apparently received an eight-minute standing ovation

(02:36):
Which is crazy because I think we all have mixed opinions from what I gathered before we record
Also at the Golden Globe Awards, it received two nominations, best foreign film and best director
And Keeley, do you know this director?
No, I didn't know before this film, but now I know
Oh, that's good, now you know who it is

(02:59):
Yeah, I mean it blew up, I heard about it because in the Indian movie scene on Blue Sky
I'm kind of in, everyone has been talking about it for a couple months now
And it's just been popping up in my feed non-stop
And yeah, it's been winning all these awards
And people have been praising it, so I thought we should check it out
And yeah, because it is the first Indian film to win that award in so long

(03:22):
I feel like it's timely
But I think one thing I want to say is that it kind of doesn't feel like an Indian movie in a traditional sense
It just feels more like, I think Winnie kind of got into it before we started recording
It feels very international, it's catered to an international audience, just the way it's presented

(03:47):
No, I think it's just an artist making her art form
I guess it's not a Bollywood film, that's why you found it so different
It's not a commercial film, because most of the films we have watched till now are commercial films
I think, yeah, even the good ones, like even Sarapatta, which is really critically acclaimed
Even the critically acclaimed ones are commercial ones that we have seen

(04:09):
This falls in art film genre, so yeah, I think that's why
Yeah, and we'll talk about the director, but she did mention that she was surprised and happy
that it was being released in India
So like, it did make the film circuit rounds and stuff
but she was just happy that cinemas were releasing her film in India

(04:30):
because she wasn't even expecting that
So I would say there are artists like that
Would you say like Apichatpong's films are very Thai films?
Would you say like Ozu's films are like Japanese films?
These are like artists who are little different from the mainstream commercial films, right?
So I think this film falls in that genre
I don't know, I just think personally for me it had a very distinctive international film

(04:57):
that's unlike Bollywood
Actually I've watched these kind of films a lot
I think one of my friends told that she was kind of underwhelmed by the film
because we have watched these kind of films which are like really artsy
really like goes deep deep deep deep into your soul
and that kind of film like you know very meditative approach of filmmaking and everything

(05:21):
but it rarely used to get like something like
what it got in Palm Dior?
The Grand Prix, right?
The Grand Prix, yeah
Not Palm Dior, sorry, it got Grand Prix in Cannes festival
So I think like when like little intellectual people like sorry

(05:42):
like some film buff, quote unquote, a film buff got to know that it got Grand Prix in Cannes festival
they maybe expected something more than like a just a very nice good film
so that's why maybe people have been saying that it's kind of underwhelming

(06:03):
they expected more or something like that
but for me it's like beautiful, it's absolute cinema for me
I think it's a beautiful film, it's very raw, it focuses on emotions and character development
but I think what I was saying before we started recording is that
I feel like it was still catered towards the Western audience
and you can kind of see the appeal of why this movie would gain so much recognition and appeal

(06:25):
amongst Western audiences is showing kind of like that raw experience of living in a big city
and coming from a lower middle class
as opposed to what Bollywood is usually about where it's just upper class, you know, opulent wealth
but I kind of like settled that conclusion because when I was like reading through different subreddits
mostly Indian subreddits, a lot of people felt like it was overhyped

(06:47):
and maybe that's not the film's fault, maybe it's just all the recognition it got
set people's expectations way up there and when they watch the film it's kind of like
not underwhelming but it's not what you would expect of a film that has got an eight minute standing ovation, right?
but I think I agree with Kili, it's still a beautiful art house film
I think for Western audiences it was maybe one of the first

(07:09):
or like few Indian films they've seen that they can connect with
because it's not three hours long, it's not a musical
it uses the same like cinematic language as what they're used to at like the Cannes Film Festival
so for them they got to get like a window into India that they weren't used to
but for people in India they're like, yeah, this is just our life

(07:32):
you know, like we have other movies going on and we live, this is like our lived experience
but for people on the outside they had never seen a movie like this before
regarding India
and amongst Indians like movie, maybe movie cinemas it's probably been more of like an escapism
where people watch to escape their reality and this kind of brings them back to their reality

(07:53):
I think like this is happening in Hollywood as well, like the distributors really doesn't like taking risk anymore
in terms of choosing cinema for like theatre
I think this kind of film will actually not do very bad in theatre
so like this kind of, I don't know whether it was released on theatre or not in India

(08:15):
but it was
but after it started getting awards
and that's why I said she was surprised that it was even playing, like she was just happy it was in India
I think after the Cannes recognition people, like the distributor, oh we can in cash some out of it
but I think this kind of film should get released maybe if it's on focus theatres or something like that
but like there are so many good films from India that kind of stays within the competition film festival circle

(08:43):
and doesn't ever get the light of the day in like generic distribution
it's a lot, it's huge, like I was exposed to so many nice Indian films like Great Indian Filmmaker
a lot on the documentary side
like whose films never got any certification for distribution in India
and that was like a whole new world for me and I was loving it

(09:06):
So it was like films made in India that weren't released in India?
But where were they released?
They were just doing like festival rounds, like maybe like big short, like long short or short films or documentary films
documentary films used to have a lot of that
so they would do like you know public, private screening, they would go for festival rounds
they will get sometimes distribution like on online platform or some kind of other archive abroad

(09:33):
but never get like the certification board certificate so that it can be released on theatre
I think documentary didn't have much audience base in India before Netflix came out
came up with like a lot of documentaries and made documentary kinda like by people

(09:55):
yeah so now maybe it's changing gradually
She was saying the director too, like the movie theatres in India, like the tickets don't cost that much money right?
Like she was saying they don't make that much profit off tickets so they need like big big blockbusters
and they just usually don't have like smaller films in the cinema because they don't make much money from those at all

(10:19):
like even if you have some people come in it doesn't cover anything
There was a time in India like when the theatre was kind of subsidized by the government for cultural efforts and stuff like that
so the tickets would be like, there would be single screen theatres right?
All in like small towns, big towns and everything and the tickets would be really inexpensive so that anyone can come and watch

(10:43):
so they were kind of subsidized at that point of time but that business model is kind of gone
and now is the time of big multiplex who kind of earn more money on like the sides that they sell like popcorn and drinks and stuff like that
so they always want maybe this kind of festive thing and also they want big blockbusters so that like there are more and more people

(11:09):
but there are certain film theatres that bring like good films like without thinking that whether you get audience or not
just to keep an image of showing, distributing good films but it's still less, lesser than we would have liked
In your world, did you hear about this film before it brought up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been asked by my friends to watch this film for a long time, I was kind of stalling it

(11:34):
Oh, okay
I was not in the headspace too, I mean from the poster it looked like very grey film
I mean I expected it to be like sadder and something like more grimy
so I was not watching it because I was not in the right headspace, I wanted something to watch light
So you're the typical Indian audience that would have gone to the theatre to see this

(11:55):
You want happy new year
No, I don't like, I don't want happy new year
but if it were on theatre I would have gone for sure because I love watching films in theatre
like it's so less distraction like I wouldn't open my phone two times while watching a film
I wouldn't text, I wouldn't think of anything else, I would be totally engrossed in the world of that particular film that's been running on the screen

(12:19):
So I love watching film on theatre even if it's a mediocre film
I mean if it's a, yeah, I'll watch
Before we get into the background really quick I just want to say so how we watched it this time
just so if you're listening and understand our reactions
Killy, Winnie and I watched it together and Nicky watched it separately

(12:40):
Now we're coming together to talk about it so these are fresh hot takes that we have not discussed
and I'm curious Nicky's watching it alone and us watching it together with Killy's insight like what differences we had and stuff
Like were you able to not look at your phone? Do you have a problem watching movies and looking at your phone?
In this one I did look at my phone

(13:01):
There was a lot that wasn't happening and it kind of took me out of it
I felt like overall the movie, while I was engrossed into the lives of these characters there's a lot that isn't happening
to the point that I can't afford to look at my phone and feel like I didn't miss any detail

(13:23):
But yeah I don't know, I don't want to give the strong impression to people listening that I didn't like the film
I liked the film just that it wasn't something that I would really connect to
I mean there are certain things that I do connect with with the movie

(13:47):
but yeah I don't know, I have a very complex feeling about it
In some ways I feel the hardships that these characters go through and at the same time I already kind of got the message before the movie ended
and the fact that I understood that was more like that's why I didn't have to really tune in

(14:14):
whereas Killy said he would tune in which I find very surprising because I mean I think about Happy New Year and we were riffing on that
so I don't think we were fully engrossed in that movie
Yeah Happy New Year doesn't call for total attention
I don't know if you guys had the same feeling, I just kept waiting for something big to happen

(14:36):
I think even while watching amongst the three of us we were like is something going to happen to Parvati?
We were just waiting for that big moment for a shock or a twist or a turn but it was very mellow
It's like a very lost in translation type of movie
Also for me this is a slice of life kind of film where it's not very plot driven, it's just a world and people live in and showing it on screen

(15:03):
so I love that kind of film where there's not much plot happening
Yeah it's not a hint on the storyline, it's just a hint on the emotions that it evokes in you
It's character driven and most Indian films we watch are very very plot driven
Yeah the character doesn't have any changes at any point of time, for Happy New Year everyone stays the same
Alright let's go to the plot of the story

(15:27):
Yeah so I guess the first thing about the movie is that the movie, I feel like the city is the main character in it
Yeah as Winnie calls it, bebe
Yeah it's no longer Bombay, it's bebe
Kids call it bebe
It's like basically like it explores the lives of characters who inhabit Mumbai, specifically like minorities as Keeley would call them

(15:58):
Because Keeley is racist, we're not
Internal migrants
But like I think the main, the whole thing about the movie is that Mumbai is portrayed as this really big city that is quite unforgiving, very cold, very lonely
One thing that I did get from the movie is that there's a lot of people but at the same time you're very lonely

(16:25):
And these characters are facing a lot of hardships in the city and they try to find their way in life, they try to understand their place I guess
So yeah anyway the main characters are these two nurses from, I guess they're not from Mumbai

(16:46):
No they're from Kerala
They're from Kerala
And like these two women, these two nurses specifically, it's Prabha and Anu
And they're like in a way opposites of each other right, like Prabha is like this, she's like this head nurse that's like really serious with life

(17:07):
Very like no nonsense, doesn't have time to joke around or like hang out with friends
And you can tell right from the get, I mean well not right from the get go but like you gradually understand that she has some internal conflict that she needs to resolve

(17:28):
And she's struggling to move forward
Whereas Anu is like the very young playful girl who's like still trying to figure herself out
I think that both of them deal with, both of these characters they have a relationship problem, I don't, I want to say it in a very simpler terms

(17:52):
It's like Prabha like, again like I'm just gonna go through it because like the movie is quite slow right
But the gist of it is that Prabha is like, she's, we find out late throughout the movie that she's already married
She has this husband that lives in Germany but they never really see each other
I think they, I think at one point in the movie she explains that she has, they had like an arranged marriage or something and then he had to go, he had to go away

(18:20):
And then you know the long distance relationship kind of like tore them apart you know
And then like Prabha is like basically like hoping that he would return and you know there's that
Meanwhile Anu deals with like how, she's like seeing this boy in secret, they're both nurses right and she's seeing this boy in secret
But like what makes it interesting is that he, the boy that she's seeing he's Muslim

(18:47):
Which I guess in Indian culture it's kind of looked down upon right, a Hindi and a Muslim
Yeah cross, cross religion, relationships are always an uphill battle
Very stigmatized, yeah
Very stigmatized
It happens but they're like rare and they have to fight a lot to make it happen
But like that's the thing with like the characters are just like lonely and in their own way

(19:13):
I don't know how, you guys want to like elaborate on that?
Yeah, no I think you're right that like they portrayed Bebe as we call it as like a very busy city but very alienating
Which I think most urban places are right
Yeah
And what Killy brought up when we were watching it is like multiple languages are being introduced by the people living in the city

(19:35):
So it's all these different cultures coming together
And Nikki as you said like we find all these people in these circumstances and kind of the underlying message of this movie is like the economic reasons why everyone has to do everything right
So these women come from a different part of India to go to Mumbai because they need more money and it's more opportunities

(20:00):
And her arranged marriage husband goes to Germany for money, for better opportunities
Why can't they live in their village for money? Why is this woman getting kicked out of her house for money?
It's all these like things pushing them and moving them around these economic forces that that kind of alienates people and removes them from their family and pushes them into like situations and marriages and other countries that they're not familiar with

(20:26):
And it kind of just shows people, yeah like the people that prop up society getting pushed around by economic forces and having to deal with that
Yeah I think this movie does a really good job at showing the two sides of Bombay right
We always see like the rich side usually in Bollywood movies but this shows like the reality that many people are just working class trying to live day by day, survive

(20:47):
But I didn't see that as like the main plot of the movie I saw that more as like the context of the film right
It was operating under what I thought what I saw as like the main plot was just the relationships between these three, these two women
But there's also an older woman right, Parvati
And so you see these like three generations of women who are just trying to support each other and get by in their lives
And you also see these generational clashes but at the same time even though they have all their differences in values and traditions

(21:14):
There's still support at the end of the day right
It's lonely, it's isolating to live in Mumbai away from their family, different culture
You see all of like language barriers as well, you have this very good doctor who is thinking about leaving Mumbai because he cannot learn Hindi
And you see that amidst all of this they still kind of have this connection amongst them, these two or three women that the movie ends up centering around

(21:37):
One thing, the director brought this up too when people were asking her about the story and one thing she really wanted to do was talk about female friendship
Exactly, she said like a lot of movies are about like either females tearing each other down or they don't talk about it at all
Or like you have to have some drama right, but she's like, she wanted to show like the power of female friendship and yeah supporting each other

(22:01):
Like even if you guys are strangers or from different languages or from different places like you know that there is a bond there that I don't think a lot of movies
Yeah, it's like unconditional friendship between women, unconditional friendship between women and also like the thing that you said Winnie that this film like shows two sides of Bombay

(22:22):
Like for example, like there are so many films in India like which shows like the poor side of Bombay, there is what is this film called like Slumdog Millionaire
And there are like many other films like very other like arthouse films, very nice films like that shows the poor Bombay
But what really struck me in this film is they show Bombay from a migrant's perspective

(22:48):
Like usually when they show the Bombay from like the other like the economically less opportunity opportunist side from Bombay
It's mostly people who are living in Bombay for a generation, the middle class people, the Marathi people and the people from there
But the alienation of being in a totally different city while struggling for money is what like takes the cake for this one

(23:14):
I remember like in the beginning, the filmmaker starts the film as a documentary film right
Like people interviewing like giving interview of their daily life and stuff like that while people speak different languages
They speak like Bhojpuri, they speak Bengali, they all the type
I remember one guy saying like, oh, I have been living here for 10 years, but I cannot ever call this home because the isolation, the alienation from the city

(23:39):
Yeah, I love that fact of like the migrant's point
Yeah, and I think sometimes if they do focus on like immigration, it's Indians in other countries, but not like the inter immigration or inter migration
That is very, it's not India is not a big block. There's tons of different languages and tons of different cultures
And the migration within the country itself is very interesting and I've never seen that before

(24:06):
Yeah, I remember Winnie mentioning this like the main character Prava
She's like stuck between two generation that really rang a bell to me because I see them
I mean, I could associate her character with my sister so much like they're like from that her values her everything

(24:27):
He's like always in a constant struggle of like two generational values and trying to navigating right
That was my main takeaway from the movie because I think Prava, yes
Because I think you were mentioning that you didn't like her character
You thought she was being like uptight or not understanding that was just like, you know, she's navigating two cultures
You see her kind of try to relate to Parvati who is an older woman who's lived in Bombay for a long time

(24:51):
And then you see her also try to understand Anu who's this like free freedom loving soul who has this relationship with the Muslim guy
And it's easy to like see Prava as maybe not an understanding character
But you see her shift between the two roles a lot, right?
Where she's like hearing these things from Parvati and other other nurses saying like, hey, Anu is like seeing a Muslim guy
You're not going to do anything about it. And you see her call her a sister

(25:14):
Right. And they're roommates and then you see her like get angry, call her a slut and then immediately start to apologize
And I think this is something that so many women of Indian ethnicity at my age can relate to
Even I'm constantly like going between two generations trying to like understand the older generations traditional values
And then like the modern aspirations that come with living in a city and you're bound to meet that in a city like Bombay

(25:37):
I think we also deal with that in a city like Bangkok
Yeah, I loved her character, like writing of her character, but I was just getting angry because like she's like, oh, why are you digging your own grave?
Like digging grave for others like that you were lying in like the same grave for others like so for me it was like a woman's journey of fighting patriarchal values that they have within them

(26:00):
Exactly. Internalized misogyny and getting over that. That's the journey that Prava goes through.
And you're right. Like she is stuck between two worlds and you see that kind of physically because there is like an older woman who is and Kili, I need you to expand on this later because there's like a whole history with like her type of like migrant group that came in and was living in those houses and towns

(26:24):
Yeah, she's just living in a slum like these are like slums that they're kind of in a gray area in the legality, but they have been living there for ages. So by Indian law, but for the time period they live in those ages like they can get the ownership of this place, but she's like she doesn't have any proof to show that she's living even if she's living like no neighbors wars, nothing will work in the court of law.

(26:49):
So she says like oh, we just like come down to a piece of paper that decides everything. So there are so many people like that and then when their land gets grabbed for a bigger quote unquote development projects.
I mean they are just, they have to just let go because the developers are usually politically connected, they're rich, they will always get their way. So this is a constant struggle in urban scape. I think, Nikki, you can talk this kind of things happening in Bangkok all the time right?

(27:18):
Development projects, development projects, people getting relocated.
Gentrification, yeah.
There's a lot of that. Yes.
Yeah.
We live near next to one of the biggest slums in Bangkok.
Yes, yes. I mean I can see that.
I mean like the next to my condo building, there's always those makeshift homes that people make when building new projects. There's always that. Yeah, there's a lot of slums here. That's one thing that I really connected with the city.

(27:51):
I see the way Mumbai is portrayed and I relate that with how Bangkok is like. I don't think that maybe it's not the same in a way but like it is a really large city as well and people do feel lonely. People are displaced. People are trying to find their way here.
You know, and it is economically motivated. Like most people come from outside of Bangkok. You have a lot of migrants from everywhere and a lot of class disparity going on. And yeah, like the people that come in to build the homes here aren't from here and they live in shacks as they erect like huge like, you know, multimillion dollar condos and you just get to everyone that lives in a condo on Bangkok overseas.

(28:31):
We all have balconies that look at slums like that's just the Bangkok reality and stuff. Yeah, I think I think there's a word there somewhere. It's called a Chol. Yeah, Chol is like I think a slum house. Yeah, that's a word that I don't usually use. But yeah, that was something to take note.
But yeah, there's a there's a character in the movie that I think Keeley mentioned. It's her name is Parvati. She's like basically like the cook, the chef at the hospital that all these characters work in and then like, yeah, she's just like the her home, her slum, her home is getting demolished in way of a new development project thing.

(29:12):
And then and then like the the women are trying to help her out by trying to, you know, seek like seek a legal case. Right. And then they find out that they don't have the papers to prove that she lives there.
And it's like it goes back to the the the interviews that Keeley mentioned. Like there were some things that I wrote down. Like it was pretty cool. It pretty pretty moving. Not cool.

(29:36):
There's nothing cool about getting your home displaced. Check out these rad facts about your home getting demolished. Yeah, it's like Mumbai is like the city of dreams, city of illusions or like live in the gutter.
But you're allowed to feel no anger. Yeah, that's I like the I mean, I not like I mean, this is a very important fact that I kind of like realize while watching the film.

(30:00):
So, but he holds a proper job like she works for a she as a she's the main cook in a hospital like a full blown job. But still, she can't afford a home in the city where she's working like this exactly talk about the wealth disparity, the salary disparity that all the urban scapes like in India goes through.
Like, like real estate in Bombay is skyrocketing. So this is this is high rises that the developers build. They're like super expensive. So with a proper job, you can't afford to live in that city.

(30:34):
So that's the absurd. Even the the the house was kind of hand to her by her dead, dead husband. So and you were saying Mumbai absurd like the wages are lower than in Bangkok, but the rents higher. Yes.
Yes. Which is crazy because already I think in Bangkok, it's if you're making like the average wage, the rent. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's around 50 percent of your salary. Yeah.

(31:00):
So if you're going to Mumbai, then like what is it? Seventy five percent of your salary. Yeah. Ninety. So it's like, yeah. I mean, the the the property price is huge and the rents are like, like, like so absurd. Even even like the kind of like even like, let's say a person who works like starts a job in a software industry.

(31:26):
They have to live like multi shared in one room, like three people have to share a room in a proper place in Mumbai when they just starting a generic software, a consultant job so you can understand the struggle.
So that's why even if the cook has a diff like a proper job in a hospital, like maybe she's what would be she getting paid like maybe 10,000, 15,000 rupee, which is like seven, eight thousand baht. But like, which is like around like maybe 20.

(31:57):
I'm talking a little bit of Calcutta salaries, but yeah, maybe like Mumbai and it would be like 20,000 rupees, 25 at max, I think 20. Yeah. So and then the rent would be like, I think she has to give like 60 percent of her income to rent to live in like a small dingy.
But it's still more than if she went back to her village. And that's like the tension is like they make still make more money in the city. But if they go back to their village where her home is, she can't do anything. Yeah.

(32:25):
Well, usually internal migrants, they have family that they have to send money back to motivation for migrating. But we see this rent struggle play out as well because in the film you see a new struggle to pay her rent.
And yeah, Prabha is always like trying to cover for her. I think it's two months in a row now. Well, and that too. So their roommates, it's an older. How old is Prabha?
Probably in the 30s and now it's like 24 or something. 24. Yeah. That sucks to like they're not just roommates. They don't live in separate. They like share a mattress, basically. Yeah. Like they to live with a stranger that you work with who's like younger.

(33:01):
That's brutal to me. Like you have no privacy. You have no space, no space away from work. And like that sucks. You can afford like one room with the nurses job. But that's the story of a lot of migrants, even in Thailand. I'm going to say probably internal migrants as well.
So when they're coming and getting minimum wage, as they usually do when they first come here, they're probably also probably sharing rooms with their embeds. I mean, yeah. In Thailand, like the single bed studio I lived in kind of in the suburbs most of the time is families living in that same size room.

(33:35):
26 square meter, one bed, and you have like three or four people in that one bed and stuff. One of the reasons I moved to Thailand was to not have roommates because in America, it's kind of the same situation.
And you kind of have to have roommates and stuff. And I just was so I'm a bad roommate. Like I don't do well living with other people. Like I feel bad for people that have to live with me. Like, and I just kind of need my private space. And America was getting a little too. All my friends had to start having roommates and stuff like prices were skyrocketing. I moved here just to like live alone. Yeah.

(34:12):
I remember like when I just starting job, starting job in India, and then like, like I moved out from my own hometown and also the nearest city. I moved to like a farther city in New Delhi, and I had a roommate. So I remember like, be having a person sharing a room was so common.
Like if you are sharing like, like to if two people are living in two separate room in one apartment will call them flatmate not roommate because roommate means like you are sharing a one particular single room. So that was like what I mean it's changed now.

(34:46):
I mean, people are called roommate even if they're just sharing the apartment. But I remember I used to call like oh is he your roommate or sharing rooms. Yeah, so, so that was so common like to share rooms, because of the affordability, the rent price skyrocket.
Have you guys done that like shared a bed with roommates. No, I did not personally. I mean I had flatmates when I was in college but I never had to share a bed. Yeah, I had flatmates as well.

(35:12):
But I don't think I did the full on roommate experience, like most people did fortunate for you. Maybe too fortunate in in when we talked about I think in the college in the three idiots episode but like, you know, in America you have dorms where like you share the same room you have separate beds but even the British think that's barbaric they're like how could you not have separate bedrooms. Yeah, even I find that this is a step further. This is the same bed. Yeah.

(35:40):
I can still remember from my college like the foreign exchange students would tell me that the dorms that you know my university has is a well off well university like they feel like hotels so I don't think I've ever had that experience with, you know, doing the actual roommate thing, so I guess I'm a little disconnected.

(36:04):
Did you have cooks and did you have like a kid like a there was no kitchen. No. Did you have room service. So I mean, no. Okay. But they said like the quality of the room was just like more than the average college dorm. Sure. It's like a hotel room. I don't know. That's what they said. I didn't feel like a hotel room but I mean I'll take their word for it. I guess I've been in dorms in Ethiopia where it's like six people in like a three bed place with one shattered chart of a mirror that and that's all they have to share is like a

(36:34):
two bed room. It's you know I've been somebody I've seen some videos from Chinese University dorm room like it's pretty like it's just bunk beds up the bunk beds up the bunk beds. Yeah. Yeah. But not the same bed. And this sucks like you're an adult person doing like you're a nurse like this is an essential job like the city needs you to function.
You're not a new you're not new students. You're like an established nurse and you're sharing with like a 24 year old girl and you have to cover her rent because she's spending it on boys and having fun and like that's just miserable to me. You know and it's already depressing.

(37:14):
And your husband's like in Germany like that that that that situation like is just so dire. And I'm it's nice to like be reminded that like that's just it's too common. And this is exactly why I say the movie appeals to a Western audience because I feel like in a way this is what they want to see when they think about India.
I also want to see this. I want to I also want to see like real grounded reality. Because it's reality. I know it's miserable to watch but this is reality for a lot of people and they this is you know not bad or miserable for them because it's pretty miserable.

(37:47):
But in the context of for me this is an upgrade right you have so many migrant workers in Thailand also who come from neighboring countries and even though they live in more cramped conditions it's still they're still having a better life than they might have had back in their homes and their villages.
They're always talking about like going back to the hometown and everything because of the land. I mean a doctor can work there but it's like to be honest there is one other thing. So nurses from nurse from Kerala is like Nikela provides the huge count of nurses all across India.

(38:23):
It's like how Filipinos work as health care providers in in in USA it's similar like Kerala provides so many of number of nurses to every so the number of nurse who are like who learn nursing in Kerala is like way more than the Kerala the state needs.
So this day they provide the workforce of health care industry in all across India. So that's why they are going there like it's not necessarily always that nurses live a terrible life in in Kerala but it's just like they're having the produce way more nurses than they need in their state.

(39:01):
That's why yeah. No nursing like yeah I just want to see too really quick because my sister in America when she was growing up to like because prices were really bad right like we all kind of graduated after the 2008 crash but you know she was living for people in a two bedroom apartment.
So she was sharing a bed with someone in the other room is two people in a bed to like I left right before that might happen to me too.

(39:25):
One thing I do like about this movie is like you see all these different women on different paths on their migration journey, like you see Parvati. She's the oldest one and she's ready to go home to her village.
Yeah, you see Prabha who's just like doing life day by day you know, taking her job very seriously very responsible person, and you see Anu who like very outwardly straight stated that she cannot imagine leaving Bombay.

(39:49):
So you kind of see the progression as well like depending on how long you've been on your migration migration journey where if you come from a small village to be in a big city like Bombay, it doesn't matter if you're living in cramped conditions, just having that access to such a big metropolitan lifestyle is a privilege.
But then you see that after a while when you reach Prabhati's age, it's time to go home. They want to go back to the village. Yeah, and you can see the kind of different life she could have Anu right like and you know what I really like about Anu's character who

(40:18):
yeah she's like dating the Muslim boy is for all intents and purposes like he's the virgin and she's not right.
She's jealous of an old man's pee pee you know like there was like that story that Anu told her boy. Yeah, was that like there was like a sponge bath an old man was getting a sponge bath and then like later on he was like, how many have you seen.

(40:43):
How many boners have you seen. I like the film, the filmmaker kind of works on the anticipation that we will think of that's going to happen on screen and just like turns our expectation on that.
It kind of happened with like on the context of dating a Muslim boy like he asked like do you have a burka like and we were like, what, and then then it's, it says like okay, it kind of shows like your internalized racism against Muslim that you got to question that

(41:14):
like as soon as he says like I do have a burka, and like, oh, he just asked because like he wants to sneak her into her house to have sex.
This has been the nicest male protagonist we've ever seen in an Indian movie. So true. He was so kind. That's so true. He was the nicest, most sensitive, caring boy.
He traveled so far to see here. He bends over backwards for her. Well, it was worth it in the end. Hell yeah, you get that sweet forest sex. He even gave that speech like maybe we should meet your parents like he was willing to go away to marriage with her.

(41:47):
And it's not like, and yeah, we did see his nakedness. Did we see his full nakedness? Well, I mean, I like we saw his like butt, right? I don't know. This is out of context.
I don't remember seeing his butt. Okay, I'm gonna have to rewatch the movie. We saw Anu's breasts. Yeah, that scene. We need to talk about that scene. I love that scene. I'm sure you did kill me. But that's what I mean with it's so international. It doesn't feel like an Indian movie.

(42:20):
Exactly. Indian films have nudity. I don't think I've seen enough. But it wasn't sexy nudity. It was normal nudity. If you introduce nudity, it would be like 18 plus and the film glowing experience in India is mostly with family and then you would not go with family. So it reduces a huge number of audience already.
So like already, it was like a striking comparison with like Prava's character and her character. I love the scene. The showing of breast was not sexual or anything. It was like assertion. So that I love that part of it. Like she was like because she sluts shamed her.

(42:56):
So it's like assertion. Yeah, yeah, you slutshamed me. And then she's just like looking right dead in her eye while changing her clothes. I love that shot. I remember asking Keeley, I was like, is this gonna jeopardize her career in Indian cinema? The fact that she's gone topless? Because I've never seen it. I've never ever seen it.

(43:17):
Yeah, no, I don't think so. It will jeopardize. I mean, she's not for like being a big mega hit superstar acting against Shah Rukh Khan kind of person. Like she's gonna be a good actor, like working in independent films and even in big production, he has to have like, she's a good actor. I think like it doesn't matter.
Yeah, very progressive. Sunny Leone, you know Sunny Leone, right? The porn star? No, we don't keep up with the male porn. Sunny Leone is huge on Bollywood right now. She was a porn star in America.

(43:52):
What's her name? Sunny? Sunny Leone. Yeah, I think I might have seen. Yeah, she's big. Oh, wow. Now that I think about it, that sounds familiar. Keeley's playing it on the TV right now. There's some hardcore scene going on.
She's huge in Bollywood. She has done like secondary women's women. How do you spell that? Sunny S-E-N-N-Y. For scientific research purposes. We'll post the link in the podcast description page. If anyone from India is listening to this, all of them know Sunny Leone.

(44:29):
I have seen her. I think my high school friend had like a video of her. Yeah, she was a very popular. What do you mean? Had like he watched a porn video of her. She was known as the porn master. That nickname, the porn master.
She would have video files of every brazzers. Whoa, brazzers was not. But I remember seeing her like in a very big pay per view site. Can we back up please? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a new side character.

(45:00):
Sorry, you said you had a friend that was a porn master. No, people in school called him the porn master. And like we would all go out and say, hey, what do you have for our hard drives today? And then it's a very common video. There will be one or two guys like that. I think every school had that. Oh, I did not. We had internet. What the fuck are you talking about? But you still have shit the best clips.
We didn't have we didn't have like that easily accessible internet with like a high speed internet, easily accessible to watch the adult films. But why would you want to be that guy? Because he's just like maybe very

(45:34):
What do you call it? Like a girlfriend passionate about that? Okay. Did he have like a so how did he how did you send the files? No, like, you know, we in our school, we used to have like laptops for bin drives, thumb drives, thumb drives. We have hard drives.
Like my this friend, he had like a hard drive full of yeah, yeah, yeah, terabytes of porn, like, and like everybody in school, go up to him and said in the library, like go up to him and say, what do you have today or this week? So like, do you describe your preference to him and he recommends what's good?

(46:08):
How does this work? So like, you will just give them anything and then like, it got to a point where it got so bad because I know I remember in class and we were using our laptops, the kid next to me was just watching porn porn that like my friend had given him.
He was everywhere like, did he get money for this? No, he did not. I think he's just passionate about this. Passionate. Yeah. It's like how I friends that are girls. I give people. Yeah.

(46:34):
Is he now a porn star himself? Not that passionate, apparently. What's his job? Where is he the CEO of? I guess it's still in school. If you're a connoisseur of something doesn't mean like you have to be part of the production of the same thing.
Like wine connoisseurs don't make wine. Film buffs don't make film. Fair enough. Yeah, I don't expect the guy that has the hard drive of porn to make porn. I agree. Yeah.

(47:02):
But it's just passion. It's just passion to share. I don't know if passion is the right word, but okay. Yeah, passion. Like it's also the...
If you are not passionate, like why would you have like a terabytes or terabytes of something in your 100? Because you're a horny teenager. Yeah, because you're like addicted to porn, dude. You're not passionate with heroin, man. Like you're just addicted. Yeah, literally.

(47:24):
I'm so passionate about this. I quit my job. Have you ever met a guy who hadn't watched porn in his life? Like regularly? Like, you know, like with regular interval? No, right?
But there's a whole no fap movement. Have you heard about the no fap movement? No porn movement? No fap November. No? Yeah, but some people... They all fail. That's a different thing. That's a different thing that comes from porn addiction.

(47:55):
But like when you have always seen people like who... Like most of the people watch porn, right? But not everyone has a terabytes of data. But I'm guessing somebody who has terabytes of porn is a porn addict, right?
I think he's just a passionate... Killy, stop saying the word passionate. Wait, I don't want to... So you're saying... He was a porn addict. Yeah, he's a porn addict, dude. He's not passionate. Again, like if you're doing like a bunch of weed, like I don't think you're passionate about it.

(48:18):
Hey, hey, I am very passionate about marijuana. You're right. Sorry, sorry. Well, he's very passionate. We all have... I'm glad you found your passion early in life.
Yeah, not every drunkard has like a good selection of alcohol in his house. I like that you're just contrarian for no reason all the time. And it always puts you in positions where you're like defending the porn master instead of just... You can corner Killy. He'll keep defending.

(48:44):
Yeah, no matter what you're like, I think that's where he's like, no, no, that's a totally normal profession. Every single university has it. And he's super passionate and don't diss him for what he loves doing.
Okay, dude. Sorry, I didn't know you were related to the porn master.
Okay, so back to the movie.
I mean, he brought up Sonny Leon and then it just got to a horny left turn.

(49:07):
Did you get ever like the... I just remember back in the day, like when Napster was around and like, you know, you had to like download individual naked images and always like pirated fake Britney Spears ones.
Do you remember this?
I was there when it happened.
We all remember where we were.
We had our lime wire days.
Yeah, that was it.

(49:28):
It was always like some fake... There's a few. I still remember it because it was seared in my brain, but like they would just Photoshop Britney Spears' face on the different actors.
And it was like sent through email chains and it was like on Newgrounds.com.
Yeah. Hey, really quick. Do you remember on gamerevolution.com there was a cheat for Tomb Raider?

(49:50):
But the link for that was just showed a naked picture of Lara Croft.
Do you remember this?
I do remember.
And it just showed her naked, like a polygon naked figure of Lara Croft.
That was a big deal.
On the Game Revolution cheat page. I watched it. I went to that page all the time.
I remember one like in Max Payne, like you could with the cheat code, you can play Mona Saks without any clothes.

(50:15):
Jesus Christ. These are really...
So about the patriarchy.
Let me try this again. So back to the movie.
What else is there to talk about?
Winnie, what porn are you passionate about?
Oh my gosh. We are not going down this rabbit hole.
All the Imaginist Light.
Third time's a charm. Back to the movie.
Last question. Did you have a female porn master in your university?

(50:38):
No, we did not. I remember seeing my first porn clip on Hi-Five, which is like the equivalent of MySpace in the US, but Thailand version.
And I think I must have been 11 or 12.
And I was so scared. It was this clip of a woman giving a blowjob.
And I was like, what? That part of the man goes into that part of the woman?
Yeah, that's too much. That's too young.
That was my introduction to porn.
That's bad.

(50:59):
Wow. These anecdotes have nothing to do with the right.
So for time, let's go back to the movie.
So anyways, we see her boobs in a very riveting scene.
But I really like annual lot because she's like a troublemaker.
She doesn't pay rent. She's like spending on boys.
But it's very relatable. Like we've all been there.

(51:20):
You know, she if she was in a room with other girls for age, like I think it'll be normal.
But there, you know, she has to like live with like a superior that she works with.
And there's just very weird dynamics in there where like the probably just kind of becomes her mom in a way.
I feel like Prabha doesn't take on that role as much.

(51:41):
She tries to, but then she immediately recognizes and apologizes and tries to go back to being her friend and seeing her as an equal.
And that's where you see like the struggle in Prabha as well to be more understanding and to hold on to these values.
I like Anu's like there was this scene where she's she's pulled a stethoscope in her ear and like just like hearing sounds of things like I cannot the kind of like a meaningful image that like she's taking everything in like a magnified sense.

(52:13):
Like she's taking in the world magnified way, like, you know, taking it all in kind of thing.
Like, yeah, I mean, she is kind of an arrested development.
Right. So and and and for all we know, so she got an arranged marriage with her husband who then moved to Germany.
We were discussing like she might still be a virgin.

(52:34):
She's most probably a virgin. She doesn't have kids.
Yeah. Also, like given given her being a very prudish person, like most probably she didn't have sex before getting married, which is very common for Indian women.
And then like she I mean, she says like they couldn't get intimate because there are so many relatives around them after the wedding days.

(52:56):
And he flew off to Germany and then never met again. So crazy.
And so she's in a marriage where she can't she doesn't want to cheat on him. But he's gone, doesn't talk to her.
She's working alone in the city, you know, and she can't see other men or explore any of that part of herself. So she's in a very arrested development.

(53:17):
And in many ways, Anu is more developed than her.
Like she's been with, you know, a few guys she's dated.
She's probably way more familiar with herself and kind of sexually more aware of herself and probably like is instead of.
Yeah, like she's initially very reactionary towards her, but then like is trying to learn and grow herself and is able to learn from younger people and older people and try to like relax a bit and like and not waste her entire life.

(53:49):
Like being stuck, which I really like.
There's a scene when Prabha receives the rice cooker right from her husband. I think that was one of the most raw emotionally charging scenes because you see her like crouch down in the dark and just hug this rice cooker.
And you can see how much like she longs for her husband. And she never got any closure from that to the point that just one rice cooker was this representation of him.

(54:12):
Yeah, she got ghosted by her husband. Yeah.
It's rough. Doesn't pick her call. Doesn't doesn't leave a message or anything.
Yeah, that's a that's a shitty life, which goes to my favorite character, which is that guy, the doctor.
Yes. I like. Oh, yeah.
Wait, so he is like I said he's from her village, right, Kelly?

(54:35):
Or her. But same state. Yeah.
And and he's with her and he is so sweet. He like gives her a book of poetry is like, hey, I'm going to enter this in the poetry contest. You want to read it. Super cheesy. Very sweet, though.
And he's like around 40 or something. Right. And, you know, he he walks her home and, you know, buys her chocolate is being very sweet.

(54:56):
But he wants to go back because he doesn't speak Hindi and they have this really nice moment together. Like they're on swing sets. Right.
Yeah. I think that kind of shows a little arrested development to like they're kind of children on a playground set. Right.
They're they're still like having junior high feelings, even though they're adults. And like he's he's asking her, you know, is there any reason why I should stay?
You know, hinting like, you know, we could do something. And she's like, no, I'm married.

(55:21):
And he's like, that's OK. You know, like your husband's not here, but she shuts herself off from that.
And I really like him because he's not mad or anything like he's also hurt, you know, and like I with the actor, too, like you could just tell he has a whole back story that would be just as interesting to watch, too, of like why he's here and why he is in love with her.

(55:43):
How long has he been in love with her and stuff? And we were all reacting very loudly when she walked away.
Like we really wanted to see her, you know, open up slightly to him. And, you know, he's being so sweet and caring. He's right there. You could just be with him. But she's closed.
You guys were all rooting for him. You were. I was the opposite. You were mad at him. I was like, oh, loser. Oh, my God.

(56:05):
He's alone in his room watching the movie. Stupid loser. To add on to what you said, Adam, I think there was one specific scene that was quite like you can understand what's going through Prava's head is like when they took their cat for Dr.
Manoj to take a look at. And then like Anu was just joking around with him. Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily call it flirting. No, she was not.

(56:27):
He was like touching his hand. And I think Prava was just reacting the way she is because it's like she can't do that stuff. She can't hold that shit because she's very committed to this non-existent relationship, this dead relationship.
I think it's not even like jealousy. She was she was she was like just shown as like so prudish.
Like she doesn't like anything related to relationship, anything related to sex, anything like she was even mad that she's going out like there is a rumor, quote unquote, that Anu is going out with some dude, which is like what else like a young girl do.

(57:02):
And then she's like, you know, just slush him.
She slush him right away because like she's going out with some dude. But then she slush him after that after Anu flirted with supposedly flirted with Dr. Manoj. So that could also point to the possibility that maybe she has feelings, right?
Yeah, it's an open-ended thing that Anu is doing because she's committed or whatever. Yeah, I just took it that way as like her being so. Yeah, the beauty of it.

(57:30):
You can feel liberated. Yeah, I just see her as a woman who grew up with traditional Indian values because that's what most women her age grew up with.
But like actively trying to fight against it because the moment Anu comes home later that night, she apologizes right away and she knows where she went wrong.
And Anu didn't actually expect her to apologize. She was like so surprised. Oh, my God. She's apologizing to me because for hurting me, which is rare.

(57:55):
Like you can see like women's experience that they're never expecting apology for patriarchal shit. Yeah. If this was a Bollywood film, too, that would be like a huge scene like you're the slut shaming.
And there could be big fallout and stuff. But this is, again, very realistic. Like their roommates, they still have to live together.
And then they go on a big trip together to help this lady move like it's you know, they still have to kind of deal with it. And it's not making big mountains out of molehills. You know, like I think other Bollywood films probably would do.

(58:27):
It is like a realistic portrayal of like just how we just fight with people all the time that we're next to. I remember Adam saying, oh, this is this is like an actual film.
Well, I remember that quotation while watching. Winnie said like, oh, nothing much happening here. I'm expecting so many things. And Adam said, no, this is just an actual film.

(58:50):
As opposed to all the Bollywood films we've watched previously. It's like a real film that like people gave a shit about making. It's a good film.
To give some background on the director, she this is her second film. She did a documentary first while she was in film school. And this is her first film out of film school.

(59:11):
So I do think like her documentary style kind of seeps into this right where she's a lot of the time just observing the scene or using, you know, not sets like they're just using realistic locations and realistic living situations and stuff like that.
But Kelly, do you want to kind of because you know more about this idea that the night of knowing nothing was her first film. It's a documentary. I just read the like a summary context of the film is love letter from a from a girl to her boyfriend.

(59:44):
Just explaining what trauma like what problem they are going through in their university. So it's in that format. But it's it's talks about the student protests. FDI I was seeing during like the when the onset of Hindu regime in India.
Yeah, but speak on that. What was going on? Like, yes. So I was also I was also in film school at that point of time and we were just hearing all this news and stuff.

(01:00:12):
So what happened was so she studied in FDI, which is like one of the most premier known like very well acclaimed film institute in India.
Like arguably, like arguably maybe the best one. So she was there. And as soon as like the the first VJP government came like they kind of appointed one guy called Gajendra Chauhan as a director or like V.C.

(01:00:42):
The head of the institute. And this guy, he played like one role in Indian TV once like Mahabharata as Yudhisthir or whatever. Yeah. But then he used to kind of make like big red films like a big red film actor.
Like he never made any good thing. He never worked as a like a good film. Like he's not he was not at all remotely qualified to head a premier institute like that.

(01:01:14):
He had no experience in that. And he just got the job because he was a lackey of the political party and the student politics in that institute being like liberal arts college universities, colleges like India has like the
like the like history of having a good student union and stuff. And they were like super angry at this decision. And they I mean, and they started fighting against authority for like appointing him as a head.

(01:01:41):
And then I think the documentary kind of talks about that issue. So we can say like her politics and her understanding of the world is very grounded from that aspect.
Is that guy still the president? No, no, no. He was he was changed. I think that he was changed later on. And also the Hindu regime got many like veteran better actor.

(01:02:11):
I mean, it's a place. Why use him? There's so many better people that would want that job. No, because at that point of time, they didn't have lackeys who were good in film industry as well.
I mean, if not against but not directly associated. But later as they get more got more power and power, the more people started joining in. So, yeah, later they got like Anupam Kher.

(01:02:39):
We are watching like the other day, right? In Happy New Year. Well, yeah, she he he's a very old actor, really good actor. And he he's like a pro BJP right now. So he gets like many things like that.
One of the interesting things to us, really, is the director actually doesn't speak the language that the main character speak. Yeah, she's not from there.

(01:03:00):
And so they had to have like language coaches and stuff to see if those characters were speaking it right. Because that's she was like she's not from that area.
So she was filming people that she's unfamiliar with as well, which is very interesting. Like I do like her eye for that. Like you could tell she I think she's all her parents are artists.
Yeah, she has an eye towards the working class and stuff. And I do like that, that she tries to give a different voice, even if it's not hers. That's very cool.

(01:03:28):
But but the patriarchal understanding of the society and like putting three generations of women in friendship who are all fighting the patriarchal system is kind of very interesting for me.
I want to know if they're just dealing with it. Yeah, I mean, no fight you can do. I know is a very empowered character. I think she's like the depiction of modern day Indian woman who lives in Bombay, right?

(01:03:56):
She's she has a voice. She's obviously had her own sexual experiences to the point that even when her boyfriend asks her if she's seen other men, she just kind of laughs it off.
And you can tell that she kind of holds more power in that relationship dynamic. And she's very comfortable being herself. So you see that and then Prabha also a little bit and Parvati you see that you know she doesn't even understand the legalities of having paper to show ownership of her home.

(01:04:21):
So you kind of see like how each generation women actually get a little bit more empowered bit by bit. Because when you think of it that this is so absurd, the legality part is so absurd. It's like from a living experience, people cannot understand it.
They live there for 27 years, 27 years. Their people saw me living there, but that's not holding court. Like she was surprised about the absurdity of this Kafka system, like where we are all living. Yeah.

(01:04:46):
The alcohol scene with Parvati. Oh, that's that's so fun.
That's fun. That was great. Actually, there was like, so I guess, you know, Parvati didn't end up keeping the her home. So then Anu and Prabha they help her relocate.
So then they went back to her home of, I don't know how to pronounce it like.

(01:05:11):
Some village in Village Town. But while Anu was rummaging through her stuff, they found like a bottle of alcohol. It looked very old, like the level was almost down off.
And it's like Parvati just takes a swig like it was nothing. And then she kind of like asked the other girls to join her. And you know you get this really wonderful scene where they're just enjoying themselves. Yeah.

(01:05:39):
They're dancing and Prabha while she's like being uptight and everything, she's just enjoying the sight of Anu and Parvati like dancing together and doing all this funny movements.
And it's daytime. They're getting day drunk, which I love. Like they just moved in. They're getting day drunk and you just see three women like in the daylight just kind of dancing with each other, being drunk. It was super nice.

(01:06:03):
Yeah, there's no men in this really like they're just alone dealing with each other and the men come and go out of their lives. But these three women through again circumstances that like wouldn't necessarily bring them together. Right.
But they're there. But they are helping each other out and being supportive, which is what you have to do when you're in a big city like that and you get friends with strangers.
And it was really nice to see like, yeah, the women's perspective instead of, you know, which what we're used to seeing, which is like a guy is really rich and successful. And that's so boring.

(01:06:33):
And then and then he walks off to the sea. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we have to go to that.
This is where we were like on edge of our seats. Also with the next scene of like people like shouting like at some someone has been like you can you cannot.
The filmmaker is not showing is like what's happening, but you just see like everyone is like on their edge like they're just running towards the sea is like something something weird has happened.

(01:07:02):
And the last scene was like, what are you walking towards the sea while being drunk? And we're like, oh, yes, she's dead.
She's dead. All of us assume that she was going to die.
This is what Bollywood has done to know. I think I think I think that's how the filmmaker.
That's what the filmmaker wanted. It's the same as like the work I've seen. Like she wanted us to anticipate something which she wouldn't do.

(01:07:24):
Yeah, it's not just that there was another like very tender nice scene where like people were giving each other a hug and me and when he looked at each other because it looked like she was giving a blowjob because her head went like in the in the cave like where they made like the so the guy followed.
I know, right? We were both like looking in shock.

(01:07:45):
Like, what the fuck is he getting a blowjob right now? And like, no, it's just a tender hug. So I don't think it's just Bollywood screwing up our brains here.
There's a few moments where we're like, is she going to die? Is she blowing? We're like, no, it's just a normal movie because because the sex scene was very much like we were anticipating it for a long time because they were supposed to not each other.
It was in the sex scene. Yeah, we did see his butt.

(01:08:08):
There was a shot of his. He's a skinny ass.
Yeah, they fuck in a cave, right? No, no, no. I think on the beach in front of the cave.
It was really cute, like them being on the beach together and being in the cave.
Yeah. And, you know, at first I was like, how is this going to happen? Because where are they going to lie down? It's a bunch of rocks.

(01:08:31):
How are people going to have sex in this cave at all? But then they have a nice little mat and do it in the sand.
It's nice that, you know, despite this movie being so different from other movies we've watched, there's still a consistent theme in that.
It is really neat to find a space to have sex. Yeah, it's really difficult. Yeah, it is.
We did discuss it's probably easier in the village than in the bay.

(01:08:54):
Well, in the bay, you cannot women cannot bring men in their house.
Like if you're a tenant, like if you're a single woman who is renting an apartment, you cannot bring even your guy friends.
But let's bring that up, because remember, she was paying the security guard to let him in.
She brings that up. Remember, she's telling and it was telling the Muslim boyfriend.
She's like, I pay the security guard. And he said, it's OK if you come up and stuff.

(01:09:18):
That's why she cannot pay rent because she's paying the security guard to have an intimate moment.
Yeah, I mean, it is easier in a forest than in in a city. In the bay.
Yeah, in the bay. Yeah, we're talking about hotels also don't let you don't let men and women. Yeah.
The room together unless they're married. Yeah, a lot of hotels allow that.

(01:09:39):
That's why we brought in the fresh air of like you can just rent a house.
Even if you were allowed, if you still have a roommate that you share a mattress with, how is that going to work?
You call her that late. They come late. Just put a sock on the door like we all did in college.
Is that what you did? Well, I never had roommates. I had flatmates. So I never had to.
Wow. You are so lucky. No, I became an RA. So I didn't have to have roommates.

(01:10:02):
I like intentionally made sure that I cannot imagine. How did you date as an RA?
How did you date as an RA? What is RA? Resident Assistant.
People taking care of the dorms like who oversee all the dorms. She's already a whole different conversation.
So is the women's and men's dorms separate? No, no, not in the States. It's all it's all mixed.

(01:10:23):
But like flat, you know, like the rooms, the suite would be separate, but there'll be men and women on the same floor.
Okay. Yeah. We had like alternating like two guys and two girls and two guys in alternating rooms.
Yeah, something like that. Okay, let's get to the end. Then we come. Then we come old men from the sea.
I guess the whole climax of the movies that we all were talking about, it was some man drowned out in the sea. Right.

(01:10:53):
And like, yeah, who gives a shit? So like it's not Provo. Thank God.
But Provo had to, you know, re revive him through CPR, which is the most action she's ever gotten.
Oh, my gosh. Adam, I want to talk about that.

(01:11:14):
Like, do you do get this vibe when she had to give him CPR?
There was like this weird tension where she's like, oh, I have to. Should I do it? Like, should I do it?
Yeah, it'd be so funny if he got a boner. No, because I think like she knows how people are.
Like they're gonna because they imagine her being her wife, being his wife, because just after she rescued a stranger.

(01:11:40):
Yeah. So I think the reason you're saying like she was being awkward because she's not this.
She's not in a hospital room like she's not in ICU, like a hospital bed that where she knows it's a safe space.
She's surrounded by people who are just staring at her doing the thing.
And if it doesn't work out, they're gonna like say bad things about her or something like that.

(01:12:01):
So you think saying go go go like what will people say? How do you say that in Hindi? What will people say?
It's a very famous line. Yeah. What do people say? Yeah. What will people say before you do anything in Indian culture?
The biggest fear. What do other people say? Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Anyways, they I mean, she manages to revive him. But then, you know, he needed to be he needed some aftercare, I guess.

(01:12:32):
It's like where you get the scene late at night where she's like looking over him, tending to his wounds.
And I think there was like an elderly lady that came came up to them and then she mistaken the two as a couple.
And I guess, you know, with this whole time that we've been talking about how Prabha never gets this closure that like Adam mentioned, she never gets this closure.

(01:12:56):
So the next logical and mature thing to do in the movie is that she imagines this middle aged man to be this man that she just saved to be her distant husband.
And we get this really emotional scene where she was telling him all the things she wanted to tell him. Right.

(01:13:18):
Yeah. It's like I think it ultimately ended with her telling him that like he OK, so he was basically the man who is her husband in quotation marks.
He was basically she was imagining him telling her all these things that she wanted to hear.
Like, you know, let's go away together. This time it'll be different only for her to end up saying that I don't ever want to see you again.

(01:13:44):
Yeah. I think that was like the finality of her character arc where she finally gets the closure she needed, even though it wasn't probably like this the most realistic way, I would say.
But it was like it was a closure. And nonetheless, it's a closure from her within like not from an external factor.
That's what I like the most. It's not like like due ex machina that like the guy suddenly show up or that he she gets a letter that your husband died or something like that.

(01:14:13):
Like we discovered a bunch of money in your room. Yeah.
There was a moment where I actually thought it was him. And I'd be like, that is so Bollywood. It had to be the guy. But then no, it was just she was she was she was like, no. OK. Cut it.
It was like, like, like you. He was washed away by the sea from Germany.

(01:14:34):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck English.
No. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, she she she's finally like alone in the room with a man and gets to kind of, yeah, confront.
And it is a very surreal dreamlike experience. You're not sure if it's real or not. She isn't either.
And but it is quite like touching and sad, like all the stuff that she's been holding in for who knows how long.

(01:15:01):
And then I want to bring this up because this also has to do with like the whole time she's been waiting for her husband in Germany to call her.
Yeah. Yeah. And everyone's like, call him, you know, and for a whole year she had not called him.
She was just waiting for him to talk to her. And she tries to call him once finally.
And like the number goes nowhere. And so this time when she's like alone in the room with this guy and this dreamlike thing, like she's finally able to initiate the conversation.

(01:15:30):
She would say what she wants and take action instead of just receiving, which I think is like her turning point to where she could start, you know, being proactive and making decisions.
And then that ultimately leads to her accepting Anu and her boyfriend boyfriend who followed them all the way, which is so sweet.

(01:15:51):
They all have dinner together and stuff. That was really cute. Like there are all the all the women are getting to know the Muslim boy and he's being all sweet.
And like they're all having dinner together and like they're all accepting of him. That was really cute. Actually, really like I like this movie. That was a good ending shot.
Yeah, togetherness. She was she was trying to take Anu away from that village. Like, let's go go back to the Mumbai that night because she just wanted her to not have sex with the boy.

(01:16:17):
Yeah, and she did a whole 180. And that's why you see the shift in Prabha's character. The moment she gets that closure that she's probably been waiting years for.
You see that like you feel that weight being lifted off her. Right. And then how she becomes so much more open and accepting of Anu and her relationship.
She forgives herself and then she's able to forgive Anu. Exactly. Yeah. It's like the weight of being the good woman under patriarchy.

(01:16:41):
The pressure, right, of doing the right thing. Yeah. And when you finally let that go and you're like, you just let people be man. What good does this pressure do to you or anyone else?
She chose herself instead of choosing patriarchy and values. And in doing so, she was able to also pass that on to Anu and show acceptance there.
It was very powerful. The ending in the sequel is just like basically her and sex in the city. No, her and Dr. Manoj. She's such a big.

(01:17:10):
I like I like this is such a good like a very well made feminist film from India. Yeah, I feel like it shows generational healing kind of passes on. It's very important.
Yeah. But I like that each woman has their own kind of story with love going on. Yeah. Like Anu's definition of love is purely freedom. She just wants to explore, have fun, have independence.

(01:17:34):
She wanted to be a air hostess. Remember, like there was a part like she was telling her boyfriend that, oh, I wanted to be air hostess. Then I applied.
But then I got afraid of my dad, so I didn't follow through it. Yeah. And that's what most women in their early 20s are doing, right? They're seeing freedom and everything as like love.
And Prabha in her 30s, you see, it's like all about closure and letting go. And Parvati is like about rebuilding herself, just going back to a simpler life, not following her husband's footsteps anymore, who probably wanted to go to Bombay.

(01:18:05):
That's why she ended up there. Yeah. Who made the decision then to go back to her small village life. It's very nice.
Yeah. And and again, it's still economic forces that force probably back, right? Like she can't pay rent or anything. So she is everyone just being shoved around and making do with all these external forces and trying to reclaim some agency in a world that really, especially as a woman, deprives you of most of it.

(01:18:31):
Not only do you have economic forces, but you have social ones and patriarchal forces where you have very little decision making or agency on your own that doesn't have repercussions or bad consequences.
And for them to try to find those little corners where they can make decisions is where they can find like their empowerment.
I've never seen Bombay through this color palette of blue and like the main blue color, like this cold coldness of Bombay, like to the color was great.

(01:19:00):
The color was great. The locations were fantastic. Like they were all very lived in.
It was super realistic. Killy the whole time was like, that's a real hospital. That's I've lived there. I've been on that tram.
Yeah, it's all real. It's very, very realistic. Like, like the right of right away. Like when it started, I'm like, oh, my God, this is so grounded.
Like they're just showing the city like how how we experience it's not. I mean, even the rich part of the city is the city. But the when people rebuild the poor segment, they kind of overdo the poverty porn a lot.

(01:19:33):
But this was just like it is they're not emphasizing on the poverty part. It's just like, OK, this is it. This is this place.
Now see, this was like, look at the story. Thank you for bringing that up. It's not poverty porn. Yeah.
I think a lot of movies are do do that. And this doesn't like look down at them or up at anyone else or is like, well, look at how are these people living?

(01:19:55):
It's all just this is just normal. And we're just telling the story in this scenario, which I did really like as well.
It doesn't like fixate itself on like bad living conditions or anything.
You guys want to talk about the cinematography of this film? Yes. I'm not into cinematography, but the movie was highly praised for all the lighting effects, the visuals.
I think that's what makes it an art house film. So there's a pervasive use of light and shadow throughout the movie. Right. Yeah.

(01:20:23):
I love the cinematography. Yeah. The shots are very like textbook film school education.
I think it's like a modern example for film students. This film looks like would be given to me in a film language class by my professor that like, OK, analyze this shot, this scene, how to tell, narrate a story visually, like to write down 10 points from this scene that you learned.

(01:20:52):
This film looks like that. Do you think the title of the movie came from that use of light, that creative use of light? Or why do you think the movie is called All We Know, All We Imagine is Light?
She said I have I think I got her quote. Yeah. Let's talk about what you think. Let's scratch our head.

(01:21:13):
I'll be Professor Kiwi. Today we're going to watch All We Imagine is Light and then I'm going to get into it about Sunny Leone.
And her filmography. Fear of stairs after hours.
I think the because it's like it's like a sea bomb is like a sea and all we see in the sea is the is the lights of those trailers of she like semen of semen.

(01:21:44):
See what? Of Fisher Fisherman. Oh my gosh. I thought he meant like semen.
I don't know why I was called that, but it was based off some poem or something. It's very artsy.
But yeah, like the cinematography was very like intimate, intimate, like close ups, you know, like close living quarters.

(01:22:08):
It wasn't like a lot of wide shots or and there wasn't any sets or anything. So I always like realistic locations.
I don't like sets. I don't like I really don't like movies that depict people in like unrealistic living situations, you know, happy new year.
Most of like where they live in like really nice condos.

(01:22:29):
I mean, I was just watching a Christian movie today earlier for fun.
And, you know, they live in like these really lavish houses for people that shouldn't be making that much money.
And I do like it when they realistically portray how people are because again, I think people when they watch movies
can feel very disappointed with their own life when they look at all these people like living these like nice lifestyles.

(01:22:53):
They're like there's a disconnect there. But when you see people live normal lives, you I think it's so much more relatable.
You know, I instead of like, why aren't I in the friend's apartment in New York? It's like, yeah, OK, the roommates and stuff.
I understand this. OK, would you watch it again?
Oh, that's a tough question, because I was telling myself, I mean, I did say before recording that it's a great movie.

(01:23:17):
I love it. I love the message. I think, you know, now that I know that you guys have now that we've all come together
because I didn't watch it with you guys right now that we've all come together and you all shared me with your takes.
I actually feel like by the end of this episode tonight, it's I can appreciate the film a lot more.
I see how relatable it is and how realistic it is.

(01:23:40):
But whether I want to watch it on my free time, probably not.
It's like one of those things that you kind of experience like one time and that's it.
I don't know. And that's that's how I feel anyway.
I like it a lot more after talking with you guys, too.
Kelly, what are your like? I would watch this film.

(01:24:01):
He says after looking sunny.
I was looking at the Malayalam name of this film.
I can't pronounce it like without just looking at it.
But it it say it directly translates to everything you talk about light or think about life.
Light kind of thing. Yeah.
So it's kind of change in person from second person to first person.

(01:24:26):
Yeah. That's interesting.
But anyway, yeah, I would I would definitely give it another watch.
And if it's ever shown in any big screen where I'm near about, I think I'll go for sure.
Actually, yeah, to add on to that, maybe if someone were to find an Indian movie that's very rooted in realism

(01:24:48):
and not the fantasy like elements that we're so used to, perhaps this will be the most recent example.
Yeah, yeah, I'll come up with.
Do you think other Indians that like didn't go to film school would enjoy this?
Yeah, I have friends who didn't go to friends film school.
They really loved this film.
I mean, I think I'd definitely watch it again as well.

(01:25:10):
I think while watching it, I was a bit underwhelmed because it was so overhyped that I was expecting something big to happen.
And so I was constantly like waiting for that thing to happen.
And now that I know what the movie is about, I'd like to watch it again to just appreciate it for what it is.
I think it has a very good message, very good acting.
But to be honest, I usually feel very uncomfortable and like I'm bored by hugely plot driven film, which is like most of the Indian cinema goes.

(01:25:41):
That's why like in any superhero films, one after another thing is happening.
I feel very bored and like I don't like plots.
That's why I kind of go and read the story so that like I'm kind of chill and I can just focus on like things that are happening on screen, like emotions and stuff like that.
And how you show it.
So since this film doesn't have a lot of plot points until unless like that kind of plots are written by Guy Ritchie or someone like that.

(01:26:09):
Like I really love that style.
Yeah. Yeah. But like that's why I love this this kind of film where there are not many plot points happening.
Yeah, I think. Yeah. I like movies where I like look or it shows you a place that I'm not familiar with.
So like even if nothing happens, I like looking at scenery or locations that I wouldn't have access to otherwise.

(01:26:34):
So I do just like looking at scenery sometimes even like old movies that take place like in New York or whatever.
Like I just like looking at old things or places like I'll never be.
So, yeah, I really enjoyed it.
I'm trying to think if I would recommend it to Americans that aren't art school people or whatever.

(01:26:58):
I don't know. Probably not.
I feel like it's the kind of film that Western people would appreciate because it's showing the reality of what living in Bombay would be like.
And there's an element of women's empowerment, women's rights.
I think trying to rack my head of anyone.
But that's the thing. I think of the same thing, but not Americans, but Thai people.
I just can't imagine.

(01:27:20):
I think whoever doesn't look at film only as escapism.
Yes, they that those people has a higher chance of appreciating this film as it is.
You don't need to be an art house. Yeah, you don't have a very.
It's not very obscure, abstract film.
It's a very low paced film.
Like it's a very meditative approach of telling a story.

(01:27:43):
It's not very like, you know, a lot of symbolism going on, like a lot of abstraction that you can't understand.
A lot of like local cultural context like Uncle Bhoomi.
Then like like not like that.
And it's shorter than two hours.
So it's way more accessible than a lot of other films, I think.
I think if you just like emotionally driven films, you care about social, economic, political narratives in the film.

(01:28:09):
Maybe you would appreciate this movie.
It's not you know, it's about Bombay. Yeah.
But you can really translate it to most city life to see that class divide.
Bibi, Bibi, sorry, Bibi.
We never going to disclose the context.
Why do we? Yeah. Why do we say Bibi again?
I forget why. Where did that come from?
I'm going to leave it to Killy to tell the story.

(01:28:30):
Take us out with the story because I can't remember.
Because someone most probably from ASB Bay called it Bibi.
No, we know this.
Do we? Am I missing?
Because someone told Vinny that they are from Bibi.
Yeah.
And I was like, where is it?
Like she was showing us the chat and then I was like, I was very openly.

(01:28:52):
I matched with some random guy on Bumble.
And I'm like, where are you from?
And he's like, Bibi.
I looked at it.
I'm like, where is Bibi?
She's most probably Bombay.
I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
So Killy didn't know what Bibi was.
Even while I was reading, I was like, I'm guessing Bombay.
How old was he?
40s in his 40s.

(01:29:14):
He tries to be hip.
Right.
So I was like, maybe this is what the Indians call that.
This is how a person in 40 tries to talk to like a 20s person.
Hey kid, what's up?
Yo, I'm from Bibi.
I'm from Bibi.
Where is Bibi?
He's from ASB Bay.
So what do you call Bombay actually?
A slang for Bombay.
Mumbai.
Mumbai.
Bombay is the slang now because the official name is Mumbai.

(01:29:37):
And Marathas will really get offended if you keep on calling it Bombay.
I think it's like M city now.
M city?
I guess when I'm 40, I'll say I'm from B.Cock.
The name is like that.
Why is this?
I don't know.
So we're going to go to Bee Bay soon.
No, I'm not going.

(01:29:59):
We're going to leave Bee Cock, head to Bee Bay.
I saw a nice designer clothes store here that the name is I wanna Bangkok.
Oh, do you?
Okay.
I thought you were into that.
Is this how you're telling us?
Yeah.
It's a designer's clothes brand like a store.
It's called I wanna Bangkok.

(01:30:22):
Okay.
Sounds like something I hear from Khaosan.
Yeah, I don't know, man.
Is this really a designer clothes or just like a gimmick?
Because he said he's from B.Cock and then Bee Bay.
So I just give like a random anecdote that is not very closely related, but he's there somewhere.
Anyway, I don't think this movie is coming to Thailand anytime soon.

(01:30:45):
I don't think you'd get any interest at all.
Probably at some niche film festival or film fair.
Yeah, I think that's how I see this film.
But no, I don't think it won't be in film festival anymore because it's already distributed.
Like most of the film festival don't accept films that are publicly distributed already because this is on Netflix, right?
I don't know.

(01:31:07):
It doesn't mean that just because it's in distribution, it's not going to be.
I feel like if it's a special, you cannot put it in a competition or anything.
It has to be like invited by the film festival itself.
You cannot submit it as a part of the film festival competition if it's distributed.
That's not his point, dude.
That's not his point.

(01:31:28):
No, no, no. I'm saying like why it most probably wouldn't come to a film festival.
Yeah, I know.
But that's not for Thailand.
Shall we close this before we go on a tangent argument?
Let's battle this out in Tekken.
Yeah.
That's what Bravani did.
It's good.
It's good.
Yeah, no, I'm actually thankful to watch it.

(01:31:51):
But I think after watching it, I just want to go back to the fantasy-like.
Yeah, reality sucks.
Take us to escape the city.
Let's go to some dancing, some romance.
Is there like a space one?
Are they in space at any point?
Can we go see a space film?
Yeah.

(01:32:12):
There's an alien film, but there is a space film.
All right. Next week, guys.
Alien film. You heard it here first.
Oh, yes. Away from reality.
Alien? Is it an alien film?
Yeet me out of this world.
ET Deep Off.
Oh, with Rick Dick Roshan.
Oh, shit. Actually, we should do that.
Yeah, that's theoretical.
All right. Cool.
So until then, we'll go battle out in Tekken.

(01:32:34):
Thank you all listeners.
You can see this movie.
It's streaming everywhere.
Just got out on video on demand and it's going to it got some Oscar nominations, too.
I think so.
Leave your comments on what you think about the movie so we can assess if you're right,
whether this is a Western audience movie or if Indians also appreciate it.
Yeah, please like and subscribe and leave your comments below.

(01:32:55):
We'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.

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