June 18, 2025 • 33 mins
The Indiana Fever and the Connecticut Sun clash: faces are scratched, hair is pulled, and a new Darling is born. Keisha and Chris break down all the action as well as discuss in-depth the issues with officiating in the W in this special edition of Fever Replay.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Friends, Fever fans, welcome back to another Fever Replay
podcast. Normally your weekly source of
breakdowns of Fever games and news, but we're coming to you
with a special edition podcast. But before we get too deep into
(00:32):
it, we got to remember this podcast is brought to you by the
love of the game. Sometimes you fight for the love
of the game. I'm Chris Ord and we have Keisha
Gallagher, my tenacious Co host.Say hi, Keisha.
Hello, Chris, How are you? I'm good.
(00:55):
Fight Night in the WNBA. What could be more exciting here
in Indy? It's all anyone wanted to talk
about at my work. People would come in the door
and I'd be talking about it and they'd be like, yeah, but did
you see her? Get her in the eye first?
It would be like first thing outof their mouth as they walked in
the door today. So that's what we're talking
(01:16):
about here. We've discussed before we don't
like to go too into the drama, but some things go beyond drama
and that's where we'd like to take it.
We're going to take this conversation about a very, to be
honest, fun game of basketball, although a little stressful
injury wise. I was very scared as the game
(01:37):
went on. But we're going to talk a little
bit about this particular basketball game and try and go a
little deeper than just the memes or the highlights and look
at the game as a whole. So take it away, Keisha.
Thanks so much, Chris. And I think that that point you
just made about being a little bit scared is sort of the
(02:01):
overarching problem here with how the officials were managing
that game. The the fact that there was a
sense of fear that something badis gonna happen is not how
basketball should feel when you're watching it.
But yeah, I kind of wanted to focus in on the build up to the
(02:22):
I poke or the face lap and what I was actually seeing occurring
on the court. Not so much possession wise or
play wise, but little incidencesthat just kept creating this
tension. So in the 1st.
Quarter those of you, though, live under a rock and tune into
this podcast because you don't have time to watch the actual
(02:46):
games and you don't have access to other forms of Internet, just
podcasts. I want you to know that what
happened was we had the Connecticut Sun at home, at our
home in Indianapolis playing theFever, and we beat them handily.
The game was close early, it waslike a little tight, but it was
(03:11):
clear we were the better team. And slowly over time we ended up
winning by about 20 points. That's kind of what happened.
But during that there were a couple of fights.
So just wanted to give you that context, but go Keisha.
A couple fights, OK, Yeah. So it kind of starts for me in
the first quarter where I was seeing a fresh, frustrated
(03:33):
looking Aalia Boston. She's not hitting every shot.
It's clear that she's not feeling as confident as that
quarter continues, but she's still facilitating.
She's pushing through it. Mitchell starts off strong.
There's great ball movement between her and whole.
(03:54):
And during that time, the Fever is capitalizing on the fact that
they have this new chemistry andconnection.
Because JC and CC are so closelyguarding each other, the other
one cannot breathe without inhaling the other one's face.
They are skin to skin all the time and it's really starting to
(04:17):
wear on Clark. I can see the frustration
growing. There's a deep post pass into
the fever, they score, the momentum is with the fever.
And then there's a no call against Charles.
Less than half a minute in the 1st and I can see Charles at
this point starting to get really pissed off.
(04:37):
Like feeling like she's being unfairly rough, like rough house
and there's no calls. So there's a little bit of a
boiling point that we're meetingat the end of the first and that
spills over into the second almost immediately.
Yeah, and a little bit of context too.
So JC and CC were both drafted in the same class.
(05:02):
They played both played in the Big 10.
They both play the same position.
So they've been fighting each other for a long time.
So it's not like these are two people that met today and we're
like, boy, you're really in my face.
They're like, oh, you again, right?
And that's a big piece. I think of the tension as well,
(05:22):
on top of everything else. Oh yeah, big time.
There is healthy competition there, Just exactly what you
were highlighting some same position, similar style of play,
very aggressive, great drivers, great shooters.
So they've, they've also been compared against one another
their entire collegiate careers and were, you know, top five of
(05:42):
the drafts of their graduating class, so.
Lots of the, When you start thisstory with the no call, that's a
great place to start because no calls in both leagues of
basketball are the most frustrating thing 'cause
there's, oh sure, they gave us now the ability to challenge,
(06:05):
but you can't challenge a no call.
That got us last game. I mean, we won the game, but it
still got us. That's where Caitlin got a
technical because there was a nocall.
We challenged, but the challenge, the they can't
overturn a no call. So Caitlin got pretty upset.
(06:25):
She got a technical And so here we are again, another no call.
And like, to me, like when we talk about this game, while what
the players were doing is like half the story, the other half
of the story is what the officials were doing.
Like when Coach Stephanie White talks about it after the game,
she said this is what happens. You've got competitive women who
(06:48):
are the best in the world and what they do, right?
And when you allow them to play physical and you allow these
things to happen, they're going to compete and they're going to
have their team mates backs. It's exactly what you expect
right out of fierce competition.I started talking to the
officials in the first quarter and we knew this was going to
happen. You could tell it was going to
(07:10):
happen. So they've got to get control of
it. They've got to be better.
And this no call that you're saying like in the beginning of
the story is emblematic of that.And Stephanie White, anyone
watching, we were concerned. We're like, oh shoot, this is
going to get ugly. We need the refs to get a hold
of it. And they just simply didn't
(07:30):
started the 2nd and then remember and and I don't know if
anyone has it fresh in their mind.
So I'm just, I just want to be as like detailed as possible
about these like events because this is pushing and pushing and
pushing and pushing on everyone's last nerve.
So at the end of the first, Boston was basically triple team
and it ended in a jump ball, which was a pretty much led to a
(07:53):
missed open look and then another jump ball with a lot of
contact. So this is creating an A lot of
tension with close physical contact.
And then we have the first really big issue where you see
Clark and Jaycee kind of mouthing off to each other and
Clark clearly pushes Jaycee. She has hands on Clark and she
(08:15):
pushes her. So they're it's it's spilling
over. We're we're not even playing
close basketball anymore. Now we're pushing each other OK.
And like I'm no, I'm no JC Sheldon fan as a Iowa Hawkeye
fan, so I get it. But I don't like hands on
contact like that. There's it's not excusable.
(08:37):
I get it. It it's they're playing chippy,
But that to me that should have started with some sort of
conversation between the officials because we're pushing
and it doesn't get any cleaner after that.
You see another incident with Nelson Adota with she has a huge
(08:57):
shot over Howard that she basically shoulder checked her
to the ground and looks down at her disrespectfully.
We're still adding this pressureand this pressure and this
pressure. There's no there's another no
call incident between Lexi and Bria Hartley where Lexi ends up
on the ground and Bria Hartley steps over her, which is hugely
(09:20):
disrespectful. And then another no call on
Charles. And then there's another
offensive foul against Hartley where she knocks Mitchell in the
mouth. And then there's the Mabry box
out foul on whole. And this is all happening in
really close, like really close minutes a minute, minutes apart.
We're not talking about big breaks throughout the game.
This is still just the second quarter.
(09:42):
Then less than a minute left in the second, an offensive foul on
Clark with a moving screen. We finally end the quarter with
Cunningham plowing into JC with another offensive foul.
Halftime we're up 4739. Why is this game getting so
physical? What is going on?
(10:02):
That's halftime I. I do feel like, you know, it's
easy for me to say from like themy ivory tower of having a very
good team. This year it felt like the Sun
were feeling disrespected. I know it's hard to play in
front of the Fever crowd. Players talk about it all the
time. The Fever crowd is not
(10:22):
particularly disrespectful, they're just energetic.
In fact, I'm always shocked how you don't usually hear refs you
suck from the Fever crowd. You hear that from a lot of
crowds, but you don't hear that the Fever crowd is just very
enthusiastic. And I could imagine being a team
that is certainly kind of undermanned right now and
(10:46):
definitely underpowered comparedto the Fever being like, you
know what, Like there's more than a chip on their shoulder.
And these are women that they'relike, we can play against you,
you know? And then things get a little
chippy. It's going back and forth.
I'm not pointing all of the fingers there, but at the same
time like I could get Y One of the ways this game went was a
(11:10):
very physical game. Yeah, so I'm thinking at
halftime, they're going to cleanit up.
They're going to start calling it tighter.
It's going to lead to just a much better second-half.
And I'm hopeful the Fever are going to continue.
They're playing really well. I'm hoping they're gonna
continue and we're on this heater, right?
(11:34):
Third quarter starts and we're still getting really close
contact on Clark. Hole knocks down a big three
after Mabry has a big miss. Mitchell hits another big three
and all of a sudden we're back up by 12 after this incredible
layup by Howard around the five about around 5:00. 50 Just take
a quick break and say this is the first time I feel like we've
(11:55):
had a great Howard game with Caitlin in the game, which is
exciting and what we've been waiting for.
But anyway, not what we're talking about tonight.
Though, But yeah, that is a great point.
And I agree, I think Howard had a phenomenal performance.
Double, double, Yeah. And it's a in the shadow of this
crazy drama. But yeah, great job Howard.
(12:17):
But so after that really great layup by Howard around 5
minutes, 50 ish seconds, I believe Clark has a what she
thinks is a no call being guarded by Jaycee.
And you see, you see her reaction to it.
And I now know that is the moment where it's going to go
from the next foul is gonna cause like another shoving match
(12:41):
to someone's gonna start screaming.
I just knew after that contact that Clark felt a type of way.
And just a reminder, like when you watch a game where the refs
whistles are tight, it really slows down the game.
And that's like a big complaint you'll hear when refs are have a
real tight whistle. You will be like, come on, like,
(13:02):
let them play. They can't get into any rhythm.
They can't. That mentality would have
stopped this heated game in its tracks.
Yeah, like it would have if we're having to stop all the
time for free throws, if they'relike having to review things, if
it's be like, goodness gracious.And all of the heat would have
dissipated. Not all of it, but it would have
(13:24):
at least fought against this bubbling kind of tension that
existed. Right.
But instead, I think this is really the point where Clark
lost her patience is after that no call where she thinks she's
fouled by Sheldon Charles is called or there's a foul called
on Clark that is clearly not a foul.
(13:49):
And Clark wants Stephanie White to challenge it.
And she looks to the bench and they review the play and Tina
Charles rushes the the officialsto give her the ball so she can
start the free throws, which is a smart basketball play, but it
shouldn't have even been called a foul.
I looked at it 3 or 4 times. I'm not seeing contact that I
would have called against Clark again on that shot.
(14:11):
But I think that really set her off.
Next play, she's poked in the eye or slapped in the face, and
it looks. Physical play, too.
Oh yeah, because Caitlin, they were fighting at the free throw
line. Caitlin's given a lot of
shoulder shoving, marginal maybesort of foul situation.
If you were calling a tight gamewould have been a foul, but not
(14:33):
the game they've been playing sofar.
So this is how the reps wanted them to be playing.
Right. And I think that whatever
happened to her face, she was it.
She was already past the point of frustrated and now she feels
like she's been like popped in the face or hurt in the eye and
then she basically collides withSheldon.
(14:53):
I don't know if Sheldon was trying to walk into her path or
not. I really can't tell.
I don't know if that was her momentum or what was.
Going on going to stop you causeI've seen an alternate angle
from the reverse of where the TVcameras and it was super clear.
In fact, let's watch it together.
Shall we watch it 'cause I feel like it's super clear?
(15:14):
Well, no, no, but but basically what I'm saying is as I'm
watching it, so it's not with after the fact I'm saying like
as I'm watching it, yeah, just in real time what you see during
the game. I don't go clearly she's trying
to or not. I just see them collide and I
see another push off. OK, OK.
Right for. This this is the.
(15:35):
Great, the master. Angle great podcast content.
No, we're just gonna. Oh, oh, yeah, that's not good.
Yeah. And I had. 11 more time here and
then she's like hey bump what bumped again hit to the ground
yeah anyway, so we're going to kept back up from we just
(15:57):
watched it. So seeing the contact, you see
Caitlin push Sheldon and then immediately the sun come to
defend her. Tina Charles gets in her face
and is pointing in her face and then maybe loses her mind and
shoves her to the ground. And that all I really think is
(16:20):
bad officiating playing out in agame that should have have not
even gotten close to that point.It was right.
So many no calls, so many bad calls.
Just pushing and pushing and pushing on everybody's patience
and last nerve. It just was really, really bad.
And to me, like, First off, as ahuge Caitlin fan, with that
(16:42):
caveat right, you see her get hit in the face and it was
nowhere near the ball. This was a swipe of some sort of
like frustration. I don't know, was she trying to
punch her in the face? That would be extremely stupid.
But she was frustrated and lashing out, hits Caitlin in the
face. Then Caitlin just simply turns
to be like, and screams, what are you doing where she gets
(17:05):
shoved a second time and then out of nowhere, without even
looking, Mabry knocks her to theground.
To me, that was like, as a fan of this woman, extremely
frustrating and like, multiple dangerous things happening to
her within like 5 seconds. And like, so to put in the
context of officiating, like, this is the result of that
(17:26):
officiating. Yeah.
But sadly, it's just another piece to the puzzle because
here, everyone watching at this point, including the
commentators, are just like, well, Mabry's going to get
ejected. You know, she came over to
something going on. And we see it all the time.
People like push. And the second one's always the
one that's punished worse. And so we're like, wow, like she
(17:49):
came in here something she wasn't involved in, dead ball
and shoves somebody all the way to the ground, aggressively hard
on purpose, stares them down afterwards.
And you're like, OK, you know she's going to be ejected.
No, not even a flagrant. She just gets a technical, which
is also what Caitlin gets. And Charles?
(18:13):
Yeah, and it's just like, wait, what?
And that is a clear as day message to the players.
Hey, knock it off. Not it's as that's as strong a
language as they used to the players.
Hey you guys knock it off, keep it between the whistles.
(18:34):
That's when we like you to push each other just while the game
is playing. I'm I was just really baffled by
the no objection, really baffledby it.
It was an insane thing. The fact that it was, yeah, 3
technicals, A flagrant. I, I just, I just feel like that
game was out of their control the entire time.
(18:56):
And then like watching the rest of the third quarter play out,
it just, it didn't get any better.
Like the I mean, the Fever were still playing the team.
The Fever as a team were not playing badly.
It just was bad officiating and a lot of frustration throughout
the rest of the quarter up untilthe end with I I'm not even
(19:21):
really sure what that was. I don't know let.
Me tell you what happened, this is when Indianapolis darling, as
I will call her from now on, because you don't live here.
The people here love Sophie Cunningham as of last night at
(19:42):
about 9:00, they love Sophie. So what happened?
First off, Sophie's been a part of this and she considers
herself a kind of wild card player.
She considers part of her identity to be maybe an
enforcer. She doesn't have the body of an
enforcer, but she is the mindsetof 1 and so she's been stewing
(20:05):
this whole game like this is BS.That's my star player.
I'm feeling like I'm on a fantastic team that really has a
shot this year. I can't deal with this.
On top of that, she was the person I was most concerned
about. Because she's aggravated her
ankle twice this year. She's wearing a big brace.
(20:26):
Things were getting pushy and chubby, and I was like, I don't
want to see one of our players that's like coming off of an
injury get injured again. And about 45 seconds before that
final scuffle happens, she's actually on the ground.
JC had pushed her down and she'sholding her ankle.
She wasn't in the last play because she was on the ground
(20:49):
holding her ankle, so she, on top of everything, is sitting
here stealing like this lady. Nice.
Almost just took me back out of the season.
I like that. And so she's back and all of a
sudden Jaycee gets a gets a fastbreak.
Now we've been over this on the pot.
(21:11):
Fast break. Doesn't look like you can stop
it. One option for players is to
foul. The foul that is preferable to
everyone is to hug them. That's what we've gone over in
previous pods. She decides and you see it in
the moment. She's coming down and she's
like, oh, this is a moment whereI'm allowed to foul somebody I
(21:34):
hate very, very much. And she goes to hug.
But this hug is to a head, whichis very much not OK, not an
acceptable way to foul. So as he grabs her around the
head, doesn't quite throw her tothe ground.
But JC was moving fast. She gets thrown to the ground by
the action and then the two begin to have words.
(21:56):
There's hair pulling. It's fantastic.
Since then I've watched Slow MO of Sophie Indianapolis Darling
holding Jaycee by the back of the head and speaking very clear
words to her. She had things to say to this
woman. It was very exciting.
(22:17):
They all get ejected. Fair, not fair compared to the
previous non ejections. Afterwards, Stephanie White,
when asked about Sophie's foul says it was a flagrant foul and
they go what were your thoughts,blah blah, should she have done
it? She said it's a flagrant foul.
That was her response. Now the Connecticut coach said I
(22:41):
don't know why my players were ejected when they did nothing
wrong. And to me that is a big
difference in accountability between the two coaches and
possibly by one of the teams hashad some trouble this year when
it comes to fouling. Yeah, so the hug around the head
(23:04):
was crazy. Hug around the head was crazy.
I'm not saying it wasn't. I agree with Coach.
But this is what I want to say about that because Sophie again
used to be for the Mercury. So I've I've had frustration
with her. I have to bring us back to when
the Fever played against the Mystic and Kiki Ariifen fouled
(23:25):
her pretty hard and Sophie popped up and got crazy in
Kiki's face about a foul that was nowhere near the level of
this foul, no. Agreed, agreed.
But the whole stadium, 'cause I wanna remind you, every time
Mabry or Jaycee had the ball, all you could hear was booze.
(23:45):
You could barely hear the commentators.
And then after Sophie, Indianapolis Darling hugs her
around the head, all you could hear was chants of Sophie,
Sophie, Sophie. And I just got to say, when the
refs aren't going to take control, it leaves room for
(24:09):
someone else to take control. And what happened was Sophie
took control of the end of that game.
Did it have an effect on the game?
Absolutely not. There are 45 seconds left.
It was meaningless basketball wise, but it meant a lot to
Indianapolis. They saw a woman who was willing
to stand up when the refs wouldn't.
(24:29):
Oh, get out of here with that. I live here, I'm so sorry.
Normally I try to be objective, this one.
You could fill that. You're gonna have to bring me
down. No, no.
No, bring me. Back down to Earth.
You could feel that way Indianapolis darling boy, but
it's, it's really, I think that's just the that's the
(24:50):
highlight of them having no control is the fact there was
only 45 second left in a game that they were are would already
winning. She was so pissed off about a
bad call where she felt like someone who already heard their
superstar guard and got away with it.
Also just now again like you mentioned, took her out after a
(25:10):
pretty annoying series of injuries with her ankle.
So I get the frustration, but ifyou had done your job as an
official we wouldn't be at this point and she wouldn't be
tackling her to the ground. I agree 100% but here's the
thing, we live in a broken world, not a perfect 1.
And in this broken world, we need broken heroes like Sophie.
(25:35):
God damn. I have a friend at work who
watches no basketball at all. She listens to our podcast.
She's a big fan of us. She texted me this morning at
like 7:30 in the morning. She's on vacation.
She wasn't at work today, she said.
(25:56):
I think my new favorite basketball player is Sophie
Cunningham. You know what?
And that, and that's that's the thing about this, this type of
so this is, I don't know, I don't want to go too, too long,
but something I was discussing with my coworker today was
there's in other sports, there'sa lot of discussion about having
(26:19):
more like cameras or more kind of to take the human element out
of it. I agree 100%.
I want that. Well, I, I'm not saying I agree
or disagree, but I think that this is something that is a part
of all sports is like the the call makes or break shouldn't
make or break like huge important events.
(26:41):
But these types of things, I think that there's an
attractiveness for the leagues because it keeps people talking
and it keeps it, it really does.It's like free advertisement.
It's the dangerous place. Like, you know I'm going to
waffle back and forth aggressively between loving what
Sophie did and objectively wanting the league to succeed.
(27:06):
The WNBA is in this weird hungryplace.
Like that whole mentality of actlike you've been there before.
That is not how the WNBA is acting.
The leadership is not acting like they've been here.
Oh we have popularity, let's allbe cool and show them how
upstanding and legitimate a league we are.
(27:27):
That is not the mentality of theW They're like give us the
attention. We need it all, we need this, we
need that, blah, blah, blah. Oh, let's make the fever in the
sky via thing. Oh, let's make Angel reason CCB
mortal enemies like it's crazy. That's how they act.
To kind of wrap up, like we said, the main for me, the main
(27:50):
focus really is the officiating.I on a fear a level enjoyed the
fighting. Obviously, everyone does, but I
want to just take a moment here and kind of consider why it is
because I was talking to my wife, and she's like, yeah.
But is the WNBA that bad? Like, you know, there's all
kinds of leagues. There's college, there's high
(28:11):
school. It's worse.
These women should be doing better.
But Stephanie White. Stephanie White put it in a nice
context when she said their job is hard.
The game has changed so much. Players are faster, they're
better, they're bigger, they're stronger.
They're as good as they've ever been, they're as latic as
they've ever been. The game is fast now.
(28:31):
Things are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better
except the officials. So we've got to find a way to
remedy it. So like, I think to review like
the state of where officiating is in the WNBAI think we want to
look at the broader context. So like the NBA, the WNBA, and
the NBA G League are all part ofthe NBRA National Basketball
(28:57):
Referee Association. So they're all like part of the
same association, except for each league has their own
collective bargaining agreement.So they all are paid in
different scales. The NBA paid much better.
The G League and the WNBA are paid at a pretty similar scale,
but when you consider that both the G League and the WNBA are
(29:21):
part time positions and they only get paid, I believe it's
around $500 per game. And the G League is a much
longer season. It mirrors the NBA season and
the WNBA is a much shorter season.
Really it's just kind of an extended summertime season.
You really get a clearview that the WNBA officiating is the
(29:46):
bottom of that bracket. It's at the very bottom.
It's not like people who've beenroughing their whole life.
This is their passion. That's where they want to be.
They want to make it to the NBA and make real money that can
support their family. If you think about the amount of
money we're talking about, consider like your job, whatever
job you do out there. Fever Friends, if they were only
(30:10):
getting paid that much and if itis a part time position, it was
only during the summer, would the person continue doing your
job? Would they continue doing it
well or would they consider moving on once they got good
enough to do so? You know, and that's like the
state of where we're at. I don't have, just like
Stephanie White, I don't have a solution to that.
(30:30):
But it's clear that we have a problem and I would love if the
WNBA fixed it. Do you think they sufficient?
I think they should for sure. No, I think I do think they
definitely need to fix it. And then something that like I'm
not even really sure what that looks like as far as increasing
(30:53):
the amount these officials are paid.
Do we have a longer WNBA season?Do we require better
qualifications? Like what does that look like?
And I, I'm just, I'm curious to,to know if these types of games
are enough proof that something does have to change so that the
(31:16):
the powers that be can make thata reality.
I do feel like that's if we're gonna put a nice little bow on
top. The nice thing about all of the
extra attention that Caitlin Clark garners is these moments
now Caitlin has to deal with a lot of crap that comes with it.
(31:37):
Like, you know, her and Stephanie during the post game
were very angry that this is what everyone wanted to talk
about. At one point they said they were
done talking about it and they're like, we can talk about
basketball. Did anyone want to talk about
the game? You know, like they're like we
made the the the Commissioners Cup finals.
If anybody cares, you know, there's a bunch of negative, but
(31:59):
one positive is everyone's looking at this, everyone's
pointing fingers and everyone pretty much who watched the game
agrees it was the officiating. These are women who are trying
really hard, they're competing, they're getting frustrated.
That's what's going to happen ifyou leave room for that.
And the officiating we've seen in the past can kind of nip that
(32:20):
in the butt and not create an environment where this is how
games have to get played out anyway.
So with that, don't get excited,Fever fans.
We're still just doing once a week unless another fight breaks
out and we'll be back. We're here only once a week and
(32:43):
if there's a fight. And if there's a fight, Yeah, it
seems very fair. All right, well, that's it for
this special edition of Fever Replay.
We hope you're all well. We hope you're all staying
healthy, that none of you gets injured again by the vial.
Can I get some the? Vial.
(33:04):
And we'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Friends, Fever fans, welcome back to another Fever Replay
podcast. Normally your weekly source of
breakdowns of Fever games and news, but we're coming to you
with a special edition podcast. But before we get too deep into
(00:32):
it, we got to remember this podcast is brought to you by the
love of the game. Sometimes you fight for the love
of the game. I'm Chris Ord and we have Keisha
Gallagher, my tenacious Co host.Say hi, Keisha.
Hello, Chris, How are you? I'm good.
(00:55):
Fight Night in the WNBA. What could be more exciting here
in Indy? It's all anyone wanted to talk
about at my work. People would come in the door
and I'd be talking about it and they'd be like, yeah, but did
you see her? Get her in the eye first?
It would be like first thing outof their mouth as they walked in
the door today. So that's what we're talking
(01:16):
about here. We've discussed before we don't
like to go too into the drama, but some things go beyond drama
and that's where we'd like to take it.
We're going to take this conversation about a very, to be
honest, fun game of basketball, although a little stressful
injury wise. I was very scared as the game
(01:37):
went on. But we're going to talk a little
bit about this particular basketball game and try and go a
little deeper than just the memes or the highlights and look
at the game as a whole. So take it away, Keisha.
Thanks so much, Chris. And I think that that point you
just made about being a little bit scared is sort of the
(02:01):
overarching problem here with how the officials were managing
that game. The the fact that there was a
sense of fear that something badis gonna happen is not how
basketball should feel when you're watching it.
But yeah, I kind of wanted to focus in on the build up to the
(02:22):
I poke or the face lap and what I was actually seeing occurring
on the court. Not so much possession wise or
play wise, but little incidencesthat just kept creating this
tension. So in the 1st.
Quarter those of you, though, live under a rock and tune into
this podcast because you don't have time to watch the actual
(02:46):
games and you don't have access to other forms of Internet, just
podcasts. I want you to know that what
happened was we had the Connecticut Sun at home, at our
home in Indianapolis playing theFever, and we beat them handily.
The game was close early, it waslike a little tight, but it was
(03:11):
clear we were the better team. And slowly over time we ended up
winning by about 20 points. That's kind of what happened.
But during that there were a couple of fights.
So just wanted to give you that context, but go Keisha.
A couple fights, OK, Yeah. So it kind of starts for me in
the first quarter where I was seeing a fresh, frustrated
(03:33):
looking Aalia Boston. She's not hitting every shot.
It's clear that she's not feeling as confident as that
quarter continues, but she's still facilitating.
She's pushing through it. Mitchell starts off strong.
There's great ball movement between her and whole.
(03:54):
And during that time, the Fever is capitalizing on the fact that
they have this new chemistry andconnection.
Because JC and CC are so closelyguarding each other, the other
one cannot breathe without inhaling the other one's face.
They are skin to skin all the time and it's really starting to
(04:17):
wear on Clark. I can see the frustration
growing. There's a deep post pass into
the fever, they score, the momentum is with the fever.
And then there's a no call against Charles.
Less than half a minute in the 1st and I can see Charles at
this point starting to get really pissed off.
(04:37):
Like feeling like she's being unfairly rough, like rough house
and there's no calls. So there's a little bit of a
boiling point that we're meetingat the end of the first and that
spills over into the second almost immediately.
Yeah, and a little bit of context too.
So JC and CC were both drafted in the same class.
(05:02):
They played both played in the Big 10.
They both play the same position.
So they've been fighting each other for a long time.
So it's not like these are two people that met today and we're
like, boy, you're really in my face.
They're like, oh, you again, right?
And that's a big piece. I think of the tension as well,
(05:22):
on top of everything else. Oh yeah, big time.
There is healthy competition there, Just exactly what you
were highlighting some same position, similar style of play,
very aggressive, great drivers, great shooters.
So they've, they've also been compared against one another
their entire collegiate careers and were, you know, top five of
(05:42):
the drafts of their graduating class, so.
Lots of the, When you start thisstory with the no call, that's a
great place to start because no calls in both leagues of
basketball are the most frustrating thing 'cause
there's, oh sure, they gave us now the ability to challenge,
(06:05):
but you can't challenge a no call.
That got us last game. I mean, we won the game, but it
still got us. That's where Caitlin got a
technical because there was a nocall.
We challenged, but the challenge, the they can't
overturn a no call. So Caitlin got pretty upset.
(06:25):
She got a technical And so here we are again, another no call.
And like, to me, like when we talk about this game, while what
the players were doing is like half the story, the other half
of the story is what the officials were doing.
Like when Coach Stephanie White talks about it after the game,
she said this is what happens. You've got competitive women who
(06:48):
are the best in the world and what they do, right?
And when you allow them to play physical and you allow these
things to happen, they're going to compete and they're going to
have their team mates backs. It's exactly what you expect
right out of fierce competition.I started talking to the
officials in the first quarter and we knew this was going to
happen. You could tell it was going to
(07:10):
happen. So they've got to get control of
it. They've got to be better.
And this no call that you're saying like in the beginning of
the story is emblematic of that.And Stephanie White, anyone
watching, we were concerned. We're like, oh shoot, this is
going to get ugly. We need the refs to get a hold
of it. And they just simply didn't
(07:30):
started the 2nd and then remember and and I don't know if
anyone has it fresh in their mind.
So I'm just, I just want to be as like detailed as possible
about these like events because this is pushing and pushing and
pushing and pushing on everyone's last nerve.
So at the end of the first, Boston was basically triple team
and it ended in a jump ball, which was a pretty much led to a
(07:53):
missed open look and then another jump ball with a lot of
contact. So this is creating an A lot of
tension with close physical contact.
And then we have the first really big issue where you see
Clark and Jaycee kind of mouthing off to each other and
Clark clearly pushes Jaycee. She has hands on Clark and she
(08:15):
pushes her. So they're it's it's spilling
over. We're we're not even playing
close basketball anymore. Now we're pushing each other OK.
And like I'm no, I'm no JC Sheldon fan as a Iowa Hawkeye
fan, so I get it. But I don't like hands on
contact like that. There's it's not excusable.
(08:37):
I get it. It it's they're playing chippy,
But that to me that should have started with some sort of
conversation between the officials because we're pushing
and it doesn't get any cleaner after that.
You see another incident with Nelson Adota with she has a huge
(08:57):
shot over Howard that she basically shoulder checked her
to the ground and looks down at her disrespectfully.
We're still adding this pressureand this pressure and this
pressure. There's no there's another no
call incident between Lexi and Bria Hartley where Lexi ends up
on the ground and Bria Hartley steps over her, which is hugely
(09:20):
disrespectful. And then another no call on
Charles. And then there's another
offensive foul against Hartley where she knocks Mitchell in the
mouth. And then there's the Mabry box
out foul on whole. And this is all happening in
really close, like really close minutes a minute, minutes apart.
We're not talking about big breaks throughout the game.
This is still just the second quarter.
(09:42):
Then less than a minute left in the second, an offensive foul on
Clark with a moving screen. We finally end the quarter with
Cunningham plowing into JC with another offensive foul.
Halftime we're up 4739. Why is this game getting so
physical? What is going on?
(10:02):
That's halftime I. I do feel like, you know, it's
easy for me to say from like themy ivory tower of having a very
good team. This year it felt like the Sun
were feeling disrespected. I know it's hard to play in
front of the Fever crowd. Players talk about it all the
time. The Fever crowd is not
(10:22):
particularly disrespectful, they're just energetic.
In fact, I'm always shocked how you don't usually hear refs you
suck from the Fever crowd. You hear that from a lot of
crowds, but you don't hear that the Fever crowd is just very
enthusiastic. And I could imagine being a team
that is certainly kind of undermanned right now and
(10:46):
definitely underpowered comparedto the Fever being like, you
know what, Like there's more than a chip on their shoulder.
And these are women that they'relike, we can play against you,
you know? And then things get a little
chippy. It's going back and forth.
I'm not pointing all of the fingers there, but at the same
time like I could get Y One of the ways this game went was a
(11:10):
very physical game. Yeah, so I'm thinking at
halftime, they're going to cleanit up.
They're going to start calling it tighter.
It's going to lead to just a much better second-half.
And I'm hopeful the Fever are going to continue.
They're playing really well. I'm hoping they're gonna
continue and we're on this heater, right?
(11:34):
Third quarter starts and we're still getting really close
contact on Clark. Hole knocks down a big three
after Mabry has a big miss. Mitchell hits another big three
and all of a sudden we're back up by 12 after this incredible
layup by Howard around the five about around 5:00. 50 Just take
a quick break and say this is the first time I feel like we've
(11:55):
had a great Howard game with Caitlin in the game, which is
exciting and what we've been waiting for.
But anyway, not what we're talking about tonight.
Though, But yeah, that is a great point.
And I agree, I think Howard had a phenomenal performance.
Double, double, Yeah. And it's a in the shadow of this
crazy drama. But yeah, great job Howard.
(12:17):
But so after that really great layup by Howard around 5
minutes, 50 ish seconds, I believe Clark has a what she
thinks is a no call being guarded by Jaycee.
And you see, you see her reaction to it.
And I now know that is the moment where it's going to go
from the next foul is gonna cause like another shoving match
(12:41):
to someone's gonna start screaming.
I just knew after that contact that Clark felt a type of way.
And just a reminder, like when you watch a game where the refs
whistles are tight, it really slows down the game.
And that's like a big complaint you'll hear when refs are have a
real tight whistle. You will be like, come on, like,
(13:02):
let them play. They can't get into any rhythm.
They can't. That mentality would have
stopped this heated game in its tracks.
Yeah, like it would have if we're having to stop all the
time for free throws, if they'relike having to review things, if
it's be like, goodness gracious.And all of the heat would have
dissipated. Not all of it, but it would have
(13:24):
at least fought against this bubbling kind of tension that
existed. Right.
But instead, I think this is really the point where Clark
lost her patience is after that no call where she thinks she's
fouled by Sheldon Charles is called or there's a foul called
on Clark that is clearly not a foul.
(13:49):
And Clark wants Stephanie White to challenge it.
And she looks to the bench and they review the play and Tina
Charles rushes the the officialsto give her the ball so she can
start the free throws, which is a smart basketball play, but it
shouldn't have even been called a foul.
I looked at it 3 or 4 times. I'm not seeing contact that I
would have called against Clark again on that shot.
(14:11):
But I think that really set her off.
Next play, she's poked in the eye or slapped in the face, and
it looks. Physical play, too.
Oh yeah, because Caitlin, they were fighting at the free throw
line. Caitlin's given a lot of
shoulder shoving, marginal maybesort of foul situation.
If you were calling a tight gamewould have been a foul, but not
(14:33):
the game they've been playing sofar.
So this is how the reps wanted them to be playing.
Right. And I think that whatever
happened to her face, she was it.
She was already past the point of frustrated and now she feels
like she's been like popped in the face or hurt in the eye and
then she basically collides withSheldon.
(14:53):
I don't know if Sheldon was trying to walk into her path or
not. I really can't tell.
I don't know if that was her momentum or what was.
Going on going to stop you causeI've seen an alternate angle
from the reverse of where the TVcameras and it was super clear.
In fact, let's watch it together.
Shall we watch it 'cause I feel like it's super clear?
(15:14):
Well, no, no, but but basically what I'm saying is as I'm
watching it, so it's not with after the fact I'm saying like
as I'm watching it, yeah, just in real time what you see during
the game. I don't go clearly she's trying
to or not. I just see them collide and I
see another push off. OK, OK.
Right for. This this is the.
(15:35):
Great, the master. Angle great podcast content.
No, we're just gonna. Oh, oh, yeah, that's not good.
Yeah. And I had. 11 more time here and
then she's like hey bump what bumped again hit to the ground
yeah anyway, so we're going to kept back up from we just
(15:57):
watched it. So seeing the contact, you see
Caitlin push Sheldon and then immediately the sun come to
defend her. Tina Charles gets in her face
and is pointing in her face and then maybe loses her mind and
shoves her to the ground. And that all I really think is
(16:20):
bad officiating playing out in agame that should have have not
even gotten close to that point.It was right.
So many no calls, so many bad calls.
Just pushing and pushing and pushing on everybody's patience
and last nerve. It just was really, really bad.
And to me, like, First off, as ahuge Caitlin fan, with that
(16:42):
caveat right, you see her get hit in the face and it was
nowhere near the ball. This was a swipe of some sort of
like frustration. I don't know, was she trying to
punch her in the face? That would be extremely stupid.
But she was frustrated and lashing out, hits Caitlin in the
face. Then Caitlin just simply turns
to be like, and screams, what are you doing where she gets
(17:05):
shoved a second time and then out of nowhere, without even
looking, Mabry knocks her to theground.
To me, that was like, as a fan of this woman, extremely
frustrating and like, multiple dangerous things happening to
her within like 5 seconds. And like, so to put in the
context of officiating, like, this is the result of that
(17:26):
officiating. Yeah.
But sadly, it's just another piece to the puzzle because
here, everyone watching at this point, including the
commentators, are just like, well, Mabry's going to get
ejected. You know, she came over to
something going on. And we see it all the time.
People like push. And the second one's always the
one that's punished worse. And so we're like, wow, like she
(17:49):
came in here something she wasn't involved in, dead ball
and shoves somebody all the way to the ground, aggressively hard
on purpose, stares them down afterwards.
And you're like, OK, you know she's going to be ejected.
No, not even a flagrant. She just gets a technical, which
is also what Caitlin gets. And Charles?
(18:13):
Yeah, and it's just like, wait, what?
And that is a clear as day message to the players.
Hey, knock it off. Not it's as that's as strong a
language as they used to the players.
Hey you guys knock it off, keep it between the whistles.
(18:34):
That's when we like you to push each other just while the game
is playing. I'm I was just really baffled by
the no objection, really baffledby it.
It was an insane thing. The fact that it was, yeah, 3
technicals, A flagrant. I, I just, I just feel like that
game was out of their control the entire time.
(18:56):
And then like watching the rest of the third quarter play out,
it just, it didn't get any better.
Like the I mean, the Fever were still playing the team.
The Fever as a team were not playing badly.
It just was bad officiating and a lot of frustration throughout
the rest of the quarter up untilthe end with I I'm not even
(19:21):
really sure what that was. I don't know let.
Me tell you what happened, this is when Indianapolis darling, as
I will call her from now on, because you don't live here.
The people here love Sophie Cunningham as of last night at
(19:42):
about 9:00, they love Sophie. So what happened?
First off, Sophie's been a part of this and she considers
herself a kind of wild card player.
She considers part of her identity to be maybe an
enforcer. She doesn't have the body of an
enforcer, but she is the mindsetof 1 and so she's been stewing
(20:05):
this whole game like this is BS.That's my star player.
I'm feeling like I'm on a fantastic team that really has a
shot this year. I can't deal with this.
On top of that, she was the person I was most concerned
about. Because she's aggravated her
ankle twice this year. She's wearing a big brace.
(20:26):
Things were getting pushy and chubby, and I was like, I don't
want to see one of our players that's like coming off of an
injury get injured again. And about 45 seconds before that
final scuffle happens, she's actually on the ground.
JC had pushed her down and she'sholding her ankle.
She wasn't in the last play because she was on the ground
(20:49):
holding her ankle, so she, on top of everything, is sitting
here stealing like this lady. Nice.
Almost just took me back out of the season.
I like that. And so she's back and all of a
sudden Jaycee gets a gets a fastbreak.
Now we've been over this on the pot.
(21:11):
Fast break. Doesn't look like you can stop
it. One option for players is to
foul. The foul that is preferable to
everyone is to hug them. That's what we've gone over in
previous pods. She decides and you see it in
the moment. She's coming down and she's
like, oh, this is a moment whereI'm allowed to foul somebody I
(21:34):
hate very, very much. And she goes to hug.
But this hug is to a head, whichis very much not OK, not an
acceptable way to foul. So as he grabs her around the
head, doesn't quite throw her tothe ground.
But JC was moving fast. She gets thrown to the ground by
the action and then the two begin to have words.
(21:56):
There's hair pulling. It's fantastic.
Since then I've watched Slow MO of Sophie Indianapolis Darling
holding Jaycee by the back of the head and speaking very clear
words to her. She had things to say to this
woman. It was very exciting.
(22:17):
They all get ejected. Fair, not fair compared to the
previous non ejections. Afterwards, Stephanie White,
when asked about Sophie's foul says it was a flagrant foul and
they go what were your thoughts,blah blah, should she have done
it? She said it's a flagrant foul.
That was her response. Now the Connecticut coach said I
(22:41):
don't know why my players were ejected when they did nothing
wrong. And to me that is a big
difference in accountability between the two coaches and
possibly by one of the teams hashad some trouble this year when
it comes to fouling. Yeah, so the hug around the head
(23:04):
was crazy. Hug around the head was crazy.
I'm not saying it wasn't. I agree with Coach.
But this is what I want to say about that because Sophie again
used to be for the Mercury. So I've I've had frustration
with her. I have to bring us back to when
the Fever played against the Mystic and Kiki Ariifen fouled
(23:25):
her pretty hard and Sophie popped up and got crazy in
Kiki's face about a foul that was nowhere near the level of
this foul, no. Agreed, agreed.
But the whole stadium, 'cause I wanna remind you, every time
Mabry or Jaycee had the ball, all you could hear was booze.
(23:45):
You could barely hear the commentators.
And then after Sophie, Indianapolis Darling hugs her
around the head, all you could hear was chants of Sophie,
Sophie, Sophie. And I just got to say, when the
refs aren't going to take control, it leaves room for
(24:09):
someone else to take control. And what happened was Sophie
took control of the end of that game.
Did it have an effect on the game?
Absolutely not. There are 45 seconds left.
It was meaningless basketball wise, but it meant a lot to
Indianapolis. They saw a woman who was willing
to stand up when the refs wouldn't.
(24:29):
Oh, get out of here with that. I live here, I'm so sorry.
Normally I try to be objective, this one.
You could fill that. You're gonna have to bring me
down. No, no.
No, bring me. Back down to Earth.
You could feel that way Indianapolis darling boy, but
it's, it's really, I think that's just the that's the
(24:50):
highlight of them having no control is the fact there was
only 45 second left in a game that they were are would already
winning. She was so pissed off about a
bad call where she felt like someone who already heard their
superstar guard and got away with it.
Also just now again like you mentioned, took her out after a
(25:10):
pretty annoying series of injuries with her ankle.
So I get the frustration, but ifyou had done your job as an
official we wouldn't be at this point and she wouldn't be
tackling her to the ground. I agree 100% but here's the
thing, we live in a broken world, not a perfect 1.
And in this broken world, we need broken heroes like Sophie.
(25:35):
God damn. I have a friend at work who
watches no basketball at all. She listens to our podcast.
She's a big fan of us. She texted me this morning at
like 7:30 in the morning. She's on vacation.
She wasn't at work today, she said.
(25:56):
I think my new favorite basketball player is Sophie
Cunningham. You know what?
And that, and that's that's the thing about this, this type of
so this is, I don't know, I don't want to go too, too long,
but something I was discussing with my coworker today was
there's in other sports, there'sa lot of discussion about having
(26:19):
more like cameras or more kind of to take the human element out
of it. I agree 100%.
I want that. Well, I, I'm not saying I agree
or disagree, but I think that this is something that is a part
of all sports is like the the call makes or break shouldn't
make or break like huge important events.
(26:41):
But these types of things, I think that there's an
attractiveness for the leagues because it keeps people talking
and it keeps it, it really does.It's like free advertisement.
It's the dangerous place. Like, you know I'm going to
waffle back and forth aggressively between loving what
Sophie did and objectively wanting the league to succeed.
(27:06):
The WNBA is in this weird hungryplace.
Like that whole mentality of actlike you've been there before.
That is not how the WNBA is acting.
The leadership is not acting like they've been here.
Oh we have popularity, let's allbe cool and show them how
upstanding and legitimate a league we are.
(27:27):
That is not the mentality of theW They're like give us the
attention. We need it all, we need this, we
need that, blah, blah, blah. Oh, let's make the fever in the
sky via thing. Oh, let's make Angel reason CCB
mortal enemies like it's crazy. That's how they act.
To kind of wrap up, like we said, the main for me, the main
(27:50):
focus really is the officiating.I on a fear a level enjoyed the
fighting. Obviously, everyone does, but I
want to just take a moment here and kind of consider why it is
because I was talking to my wife, and she's like, yeah.
But is the WNBA that bad? Like, you know, there's all
kinds of leagues. There's college, there's high
(28:11):
school. It's worse.
These women should be doing better.
But Stephanie White. Stephanie White put it in a nice
context when she said their job is hard.
The game has changed so much. Players are faster, they're
better, they're bigger, they're stronger.
They're as good as they've ever been, they're as latic as
they've ever been. The game is fast now.
(28:31):
Things are happening quickly. Everybody's getting better
except the officials. So we've got to find a way to
remedy it. So like, I think to review like
the state of where officiating is in the WNBAI think we want to
look at the broader context. So like the NBA, the WNBA, and
the NBA G League are all part ofthe NBRA National Basketball
(28:57):
Referee Association. So they're all like part of the
same association, except for each league has their own
collective bargaining agreement.So they all are paid in
different scales. The NBA paid much better.
The G League and the WNBA are paid at a pretty similar scale,
but when you consider that both the G League and the WNBA are
(29:21):
part time positions and they only get paid, I believe it's
around $500 per game. And the G League is a much
longer season. It mirrors the NBA season and
the WNBA is a much shorter season.
Really it's just kind of an extended summertime season.
You really get a clearview that the WNBA officiating is the
(29:46):
bottom of that bracket. It's at the very bottom.
It's not like people who've beenroughing their whole life.
This is their passion. That's where they want to be.
They want to make it to the NBA and make real money that can
support their family. If you think about the amount of
money we're talking about, consider like your job, whatever
job you do out there. Fever Friends, if they were only
(30:10):
getting paid that much and if itis a part time position, it was
only during the summer, would the person continue doing your
job? Would they continue doing it
well or would they consider moving on once they got good
enough to do so? You know, and that's like the
state of where we're at. I don't have, just like
Stephanie White, I don't have a solution to that.
(30:30):
But it's clear that we have a problem and I would love if the
WNBA fixed it. Do you think they sufficient?
I think they should for sure. No, I think I do think they
definitely need to fix it. And then something that like I'm
not even really sure what that looks like as far as increasing
(30:53):
the amount these officials are paid.
Do we have a longer WNBA season?Do we require better
qualifications? Like what does that look like?
And I, I'm just, I'm curious to,to know if these types of games
are enough proof that something does have to change so that the
(31:16):
the powers that be can make thata reality.
I do feel like that's if we're gonna put a nice little bow on
top. The nice thing about all of the
extra attention that Caitlin Clark garners is these moments
now Caitlin has to deal with a lot of crap that comes with it.
(31:37):
Like, you know, her and Stephanie during the post game
were very angry that this is what everyone wanted to talk
about. At one point they said they were
done talking about it and they're like, we can talk about
basketball. Did anyone want to talk about
the game? You know, like they're like we
made the the the Commissioners Cup finals.
If anybody cares, you know, there's a bunch of negative, but
(31:59):
one positive is everyone's looking at this, everyone's
pointing fingers and everyone pretty much who watched the game
agrees it was the officiating. These are women who are trying
really hard, they're competing, they're getting frustrated.
That's what's going to happen ifyou leave room for that.
And the officiating we've seen in the past can kind of nip that
(32:20):
in the butt and not create an environment where this is how
games have to get played out anyway.
So with that, don't get excited,Fever fans.
We're still just doing once a week unless another fight breaks
out and we'll be back. We're here only once a week and
(32:43):
if there's a fight. And if there's a fight, Yeah, it
seems very fair. All right, well, that's it for
this special edition of Fever Replay.
We hope you're all well. We hope you're all staying
healthy, that none of you gets injured again by the vial.
Can I get some the? Vial.
(33:04):
And we'll see you next week. Bye bye.
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