July 21, 2025 • 43 mins
Keisha and Chris relive All-Star weekend and take a deep dive into the WNBA financials, but trust me, it’s fun.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Friends, Fever fans, welcome back to another Fever Replay
podcast. You're home for a breakdown of
weekly Fever games and news. This podcast is brought to you
by the love of the game. Sometimes Smash Mouth gets it
(00:31):
perfectly right. For the love of the game I am
Chris Ord and I am joined by my lovely and talented Co host
Keisha Gallagher. Say hi, Keisha.
Hello, how are you, Chris? I'm doing great.
(00:51):
I'm pretty tired from this weekend, but it was a fun
weekend here in Indy and we're going to talk a lot about that
today. How are you?
I'm doing much better today. Yesterday I was having a little
bit of a migraine episode, whichis why we're a bit delayed.
But I'm, I'm back. I'm ready.
I'm ready to talk about basketball.
Those are my least favorite episodes.
(01:13):
It's a bad time, migraine episode.
It's a bad time. All right, so Keisha, it was
just All Star Weekend and it's always so interesting.
To the surprise of no one, everything about the All Star
Weekend was much more exciting than the basketball game itself.
Not a surprise, but once again, true.
(01:38):
Let's touch on the game a tiny bit.
What were your thoughts? You know, game.
To call this a game of basketball is very generous.
It's like, you know what I'd like to see?
What if no one played defense? What if it was just offense, the
offense, And that's what that was?
I was watching with my parents, so I'm very happy to have in
town, but my dad kept saying especially 'cause they'd go to
(01:59):
interview Caitlin Clarke and she'd be like, what do I want to
see? I want to see more 4 pointers,
no defense. And I, I love that.
I appreciate it because she's being very real.
No one's out here to play defense.
That's not what anyone wants to see.
And we all want to see those 4 pointers, baby.
But my dad was like, what? That's the opposite, blah, blah,
(02:19):
blah. I'm like, dad, this isn't, this
isn't basketball, OK? It's not what we're witnessing.
And no one, and I mean no one inthe arena watching from home,
playing on the court, wants to see one of these women get hurt.
No game, no. That's and that you know.
What? I think that that's what
everyone signed up for was let'sgive the people an offensive
(02:41):
show. We don't need to to do any
defensive maneuvers here. We don't.
We're already playing with people who are injured.
I think Jackie Young played for like 10 seconds, then she was
done. Everyone is kind of nursing and
hobbling through it right now. Let's just have a good time,
give the people a high score. First triple double ever.
New scoring record for the All Star game.
(03:04):
So it was still entertaining even if it wasn't the
traditional basketball you may have been looking for.
Yeah, like I knew we weren't going to get what we got last
year, which was really somethingvery special.
That's specific to the Olympic. Olympic seasons, yeah.
Yeah, as far as all professional, All Star games are
concerned, that was just chef's kiss.
(03:27):
Absolute fantastic sports last year.
I knew we weren't going to get that.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
This was an entertaining weekend.
Just in general. I think my favorite thing about
the All Stars is seeing everybody together, seeing them
hanging out, and for the first time ever, we got to be there
with them for 72 hours straight.Thanks to Stud Buds.
(03:51):
If you missed out, if you didn'tknow what Stud Buds was, yeah.
So Courtney Williams has had a live stream for 72 hours
straight where she was just had us in the action, even on the
game. I had the game on TV and
honestly, I was watching the stud Buds feed way more because
it was like, when do I get to sit, like, right behind the
(04:12):
bench and like, chatted up with the players during an All Star
game. That was great.
In general. I liked all the camaraderie we
saw. I loved it was just fun time.
I was just having a fun time. Yeah, I mean, the three-point
shooting, I don't know. The contest between Sabrina is
so exciting to watch in general,but when she gets into that
(04:36):
flow, 11 threes in a row. 11 in a row insane.
Just and Keisha, I don't know ifyou know this I I was in the
building. I do.
Know this very exciting. Yeah, my family, I was there
with my parents. I was there with my kids and
they kept turning me and they'relike how much is a lot like what
should we be expecting? And I was like oh man, if anyone
gets in the high 20s it's going to be like really impressive and
(04:58):
they're like OK, yeah, high 20s and people are getting low 20s,
mid 20s and they're like oh, OK,yeah, yeah.
And then she busts out at 30 andthey're like how much is that?
And I was like the second best ever, I think.
And they're like, who got the first best?
I'm like her. She did it.
She did the other best. It was very, very exciting, cool
(05:18):
time. A little bummed about Lexi.
She caught heat in the second-half but she couldn't hit
anything in the very beginning. I I just can't imagine the, I
mean, it's one thing to play in front.
I mean, especially if you're Lexi, you do play in sold out
crowds often, but the amount of pressure to have no team on the
court, just you in Iraq. And I don't know if people
(05:40):
really understand how difficult it is to shoot off of Iraq.
Yeah, it is so different the mechanics of your shot.
Slightly different. Just forget about it.
Yeah, you're doing something brand new.
And if you have been practicing,it's gonna, it's gonna be a
little funky, but. That's what it look like too.
I think that she was definitely rattled in the beginning.
You can tell she was kind of notsitting on her feet, you know?
(06:02):
But then by the end, after just shooting and shooting, she was
like 03 points. I know how to do this.
Actually. I'm actually one of the best at
this. So it was fun.
It was fun. The whole indie crowd,
obviously, between Lexi Hall andthen during the skills challenge
with E Weezy, Erica Wheeler, they both were like home field
(06:23):
advantage for sure. The DJ kept being like, let's
hear it for the other teams. And we were like, if they don't
do something crazy cool, we're really rooting for these two
ladies. I hope you know this.
Yeah. The only thing that.
The Sabrina did do something crazy.
Cool. The only thing I feel like
didn't get enough praise though was like Sabrina also gave half
(06:45):
of her winnings to Sonia Citron which is so cool and I know she
was so sweet. And that was the reason, too.
Like, I love that reason. Yeah.
I give half of it to Sony because she just seemed so
nervous out there. And I was just proud of her
going out there and doing it. And I know how much pressure
there is. And so I just wanted to throw it
to her. And it's like, what?
Come on. That's like a cool reason, you
(07:07):
know, and not like the standard.It's not like the standard like
athlete, like, oh, I did it to like, you don't hear people say
that, oh, there was a rookie here.
They seem nervous. So I wanted to throw them my
winnings. Like what?
Heck no, that's not a thing. Not even like here's 10K.
Thanks for showing up, I know itwas tough.
You must have been stressed. Half of my winnings.
Half of them. It's pretty crazy.
(07:30):
Very cool. No, I mean, that was the cool
thing. It felt like the WNBA players
were like a connected community this weekend.
That's kind of that's what it felt like 100%, which was really
cool, especially because the media likes to pit everybody
against each other. I mean, especially like, you
(07:51):
know, we heard about Caitlin allthe time and he didn't really
get a whiff of anything. It was just having a good time.
Like she's hanging out, everyone's hanging out.
It didn't really seem like anybody's treating anybody
different. No, I'll just.
And that's, and that's, I think that was really special with the
the coverage that you got over the weekend, especially coming
from the stud buds. But like, these are just friends
(08:13):
who have a passion for basketball, who finally got
together and didn't have the stress and the concerns of the
schedule and the lineups and therosters and plays.
It was just an opportunity to hang out and do something you
love to do. Like, that's great.
I'm glad that we get to see thatand that it's continuing to
grow, become this larger event, especially for the women,
considering how hard they've hadto work to even get to a
(08:35):
platform like this where you canhave winnings like that.
Mm hmm, absolutely. And like, like you said, the fun
and hanging out was something that Indy took very seriously.
So like, you know, I went downtown, went there with the
kids. We had a fantastic time.
(08:57):
Like, First off, just the artwork that's all over, like
every building we like, drove around for a while.
Like, looking at this, looking at that, like checking out.
They had renamed the streets, you know, after the Teams.
But they weren't like Alaska. My daughter was like, oh, like,
wait, that one says aces. But the other ones in Vegas,
(09:17):
she's like, it's some cities andsome of the names I don't know.
And we're driving shot. She's like, we got to find
Fever. We got to find Fever.
And so when we found it and it was it's called Fever Court.
And she was like, that's the coolest.
It was just kind of fun to feel like the city was embracing the
women's game in a big way. And it was cool.
Like, just as a fan of basketball in general, like
(09:40):
right in the centre of town in Monument Circle, they have,
like, all these basketball hoopsset up with racks of balls.
And there were, like, volunteersthere, like, shagging balls for
you. And everyone's just having a
good time playing, shooting, getting free, little, like, fans
and basketballs and signing things.
Like there were big walls where you can sign stuff.
(10:00):
And my daughter was shouting outFever replay on it.
And I put a little prayer for Caitlyn's growing there.
Yeah. Important prayers.
The important stuff. The important stuff is what you
put on the wall, so. But it's a really good time and
I felt like Indy knocked it out of the park.
It was just such positivity and fun and that's it kind of what
(10:23):
the whole weekend was about, which was super cool.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it should
just be an Indy moving forward, how well they put it on.
But we'll see what they decide. I agree.
I agree with that and I think myopinion is very objective on the
subject. I wouldn't say the fact that I
live here has any effect. No bias whatsoever.
(10:44):
No, I think it'd just be best served here in Indy.
So yeah, I mean, that was my experience kind of on the
ground. What was like a a fun take away
for you? I mean, in general, I thought
that the the city put on a greatevent.
I was super excited to see all of the best players get together
(11:06):
and just have a good time. One thing I thought that was
really crazy though was so I don't know if you are aware of
this, but recently Collier signed a deal with Jordan that's
pretty substantial. And so after she just had it
raining crazy points all game during the All Star game, Jordan
brought out like all of these giant trucks just highlighting
(11:28):
Collier was like future MVP which was pretty insane.
I don't know, I don't know wherethese trucks were.
I wanted to see them so bad though.
Were they just driving around the city?
Yeah, they were just like like back-to-back lines of trucks.
It may gotta figure out where this was, but I, I was wondering
if anybody saw them or if anybody had caught a caught a
glimpse. But I saw all these trucks lined
(11:49):
up in this advertisement for forher and it just looked insane.
I mean, the, the groundbreaking deals that have come over the
last few years for shoes and brands like this is this is a
huge deal for her. Oh yes, I found it.
Yes, Jordan Jordan brand rolled out trucks with digital
billboards to celebrate Collier's 2025 WNBA All Star
(12:12):
Game MVP award. And it is they're really cool.
I'll if I, if I can find a video, I'll send you a video.
But these trucks are rad. Awesome.
So that's something we'll put upfor those of you listening,
we'll just put it up on our Insta.
If you haven't checked us out there, give us a follow, but
we'll kind of be throwing thingsthat we talk about that are more
(12:33):
visual. They'll probably go up on there.
So it's just fever replay on Instagram.
You know, maybe we'll go on other socials down the road, but
that's where we are right now. So one thing, as long as we're
talking about making deals and money, I don't know.
Did you notice the wardrobe change, Keisha?
(12:53):
I did. That happened right in the
beginning of the All Star game. I did notice that.
Yes, 100% of the players took off their shirts and it said pay
us what you owe us. That was pretty cool.
I, I literally got chow. I, I did too.
I did not expect that play, but I'm happy that they're demanding
(13:17):
their, their bag. They deserve it.
I'd I cannot believe how little these incredible athletes are
compensated for what they do in comparison to other professional
athletes. Or just in comparison to normal
jobs, 'cause once again, I know that this is like below the
minimum, right? Because Arie signed a partial
(13:42):
contract, right? But I just want to remind you,
Arie McDonald is on a contract where she gets paid $53,000.
Now, I don't know what you make,Keisha, but I know you make more
than that. Let's just say that, right?
And I think a lot of people listening make more than that.
If they don't, they're trying tomake that.
And I think we all agree that Arie would play better
(14:04):
basketball if she was paid enough to, you know, live a life
in the city she works in. I think she would probably play
better. And I think if we're not paying
them enough to play like at their peak performance, then
we're not really invested in theleague.
That's kind of, I would say justlike right off the bat, yeah.
(14:26):
It's just kind of crazy. I think you said that like
perfectly is what is what kind of expectations can you have for
your team, for your players whenso many of them are making below
minimum wage? Like they're making less than
50,000 a year 6 maybe the average is hovering around 6060
thousand. OK.
And then what? When they're not playing
basketball anymore and it's the offseason, how are they supposed
(14:49):
to make? Yeah.
So. What do you expect?
Them to do the league minimum contract is 66,000 and $79.
Well, I include that 79 because it's a significant portion and
then that's for people with zeroto two years, three or more.
The minimum is 78831. So I myself on my time when I'm
(15:13):
not a podcaster, I'm a banker here in Indianapolis.
So I happen to see a large number of incomes come through
who live in this same exact area.
And I will say that if they're aprofessional who's been at their
job for a fair amount and are anywhere near the top half of
(15:33):
the expertise, you know, scale, they would be making more than
this pretty much any field of expertise well.
I mean, I think the other thing that is so hard for me to
swallow when it comes to the discrepancy and pay as we, we
often want to compare them to the dub, the WNBA to the NBA.
(15:56):
And I know that that you can't, it's just not the same.
The the longevity of the NBA speaks to exactly why it's in a
position as in now. But I just want people to
understand and, and this may be this figure may be wrong, but a
figure I came across that blew my mind is that the WNBA rookie
minimum is hovering around 66 like you said compared to the
(16:16):
NBA. Do you know what that minimum
is? This.
Is around 1,000,000. Is that 1.27 million?
Yeah, and I'm sorry because .27,the part that I ignored is
almost four times the minimum ofthe West, which is insane.
It's insane to me. It is insane to me and I just, I
(16:38):
don't know. I don't really.
I mean, I just don't get it. I don't understand.
Yeah, So what we're going to do,we're going to dive straight
into kind of this kind of financial aspect.
It's a big part of the league right now.
Clearly, the players have meant twice now to renegotiate the
collective bargaining agreement.They had their biggest group of
(17:01):
them ever meet right before the All Star Game.
No one's really happy about how the meetings are going on either
side. And one of the things I want to
address is you hear it over and over and over and over and over
again ad nauseam that why could they get more money if the WNBA
(17:24):
loses for a $40 million a year. And I think that's a good
question if I'm misinformed. So we're going to kind of talk a
little bit about that. So as I said, I am a banker
during the day and one of the things I focus on is businesses.
(17:44):
So I think it's really importantright off the bat to give some
context on what it means to losemoney each year, right?
Because most people, I think don't run a business.
Most people are just kind of their own person.
And if you thought, gosh, I'm losing money each year, that
would mean that you probably arenow homeless, right?
(18:05):
Like we all need to be making money.
But the fact is like personal finances and business finances
are very, very different things.And really on the business side,
you look at losses and you look at gains in a different way.
Really, if you make a profit or not doesn't mean you're not
getting paid. You still get paid, but your
business might not profit. And that just means that you
(18:26):
have more liabilities than assets that year.
And if you're a company that is trying to grow, it's very common
that you would not turn a profitbecause you're investing back
into your own business in a lot of different ways.
And as you invest in your own business, you're going to eat
into your own profits. You're not going to pay yourself
(18:47):
extra, you're going to invest back into your business.
You might increase your liabilities.
Like if you think about a manufacturing company, they
might buy $1,000,000 machines that they couldn't pay for with
their current output, but it will allow them to have a
greater output in the coming years, which will then yield
profits. So that's where we are right
(19:09):
now. The NBA didn't become
consistently profitable until the late 80s, which is like the
Magic Johnson Larry Bird sort ofera.
And if you compare that to the West, we're not at the Magic
Johnson Larry Bird era of the West.
You know, we're maybe getting there, might be getting there,
(19:30):
could be very exciting if we getthere, But that's not where we
are right now. And when we talk about this
growth that we're seeing, we're seeing, you know, a new TV deal
that's coming out next year. We're seeing crazy record
setting attendance, crazy recordsetting viewership, crazy record
(19:52):
setting jersey sales. This is not the time to put your
foot on the brake, right? Now's the time to put your foot
on the gas. Like if we want to actually
capture all this attention, you want to invest.
In the thing that's going to help you get better and the
thing that is going to help the WNBA get better is the players.
(20:17):
That's the product. The whole product is the
players. Anything else that the money is
doing, if you're talking about profitability, could not be more
important than making sure the players are happy and able to
perform at their very best. And as we discussed like these,
this amount of money isn't enough.
(20:38):
Like someone who lives in the Indy area needs to make more
money than this. So they would have to get a
second job outside of the WNBA, which if you had a second job on
top of yours, you're probably going to underperform at your
job. That's just how it works.
Also, I mean, for those who may not know, there is no offseason
(21:02):
like there is an offseason, but there's not because you're a
professional athlete and especially if you're a female
athlete in the WNBA, these womenregularly get waved added back,
waved added back, Won't play fortwo or three seasons, have to go
overseas, play in three on threein Europe, will maybe find an
opportunity to try the five on five offseasons that don't
(21:24):
compete with the WNBA. There is no break.
You have to constantly be in shape.
You have to constantly be at thetop, the tip top of performance.
There are no days off if you want to stay relevant.
That is so demanding and then you're still not getting paid.
You're still not getting paid. It is crazy.
(21:45):
It is. So when we look at that was just
context, right? So then when we look at the
numbers of the 40,000 supposedly, so when we look at
that number that was stated, that was a number stated by both
the WNBA like representatives and also the NBA ones, but they
didn't like say this with a financial report, just for the
(22:08):
record, right, The actual line by line finances of the WNBA are
super murky. Every once in a while someone
will throw a number out and it'slike, OK, hopefully we believe
that, You know what I mean? They didn't say, oh, this is the
case because money goes here, money goes here, money goes
there. That's why we're losing this
(22:29):
much. They just said, oh, yeah, we
lost that much. You know, one thing that was
stated was that Adam Silver, whois the commissioner of the men's
league of basketball known as the NBA, said that they cost the
NBA 10 million a year. Now, for context sake, 10
million a year is 10 minimum players.
(22:53):
That's like just for for how much money that is, that is 10
minimum level contract players. Like some guy that you're like,
oh gosh, we could use one more tall person.
I'll pay you, Sir, come up from the G League so you can sit on
the bench in case someone gets hurt.
That's how much exactly 10 players is how much.
(23:14):
So when people say, oh, the NBA is is like the only thing
holding it afloat, It's like, no, they're yes, they pay some
money in, but they pay 10 million.
That is not a significant sum tothe NBA just for the record,
right. And then when we look at, for
instance, they're saying that this new media package, cause
(23:36):
the old one is going to end at the end of this season and then
we get a new one in 2026, is said that it's going to bring in
$2.2 billion over the next 11 years, $2.2 billion right, over
the next 11 years. So that will considerably
increase the WS take from its present 60 million.
(23:59):
So this concept like this is thereason we want to lock up.
The players want to lock up their pay now because the money
is coming and if it doesn't go to them, it's going to go
somewhere else. And the question is why would
the players stay here? Why wouldn't they just go play
like in Australia where they'll get paid better or in Europe
(24:20):
will they get paid better or in China will they get paid better?
Like why would they stay? They want to stay.
They want to stay and play here in the US, but they're asking
why should we if you're going tojust make all this money from us
and ship it out next year to I don't even know where, nobody
(24:41):
knows where. Yeah, no, it's it's pretty it's
pretty infuriating to have to defend why someone who works as
hard as these women do deserve more money.
But it is crazy to to to know that the sweeping statement of
well, the WNBA did lose $40 million in 2024 without any
(25:04):
sighting of sources or explaining what that really
means is crazy. Especially 'cause you explain
the net gain of 115,000,000 juston that TV deal alone would mean
that even if the if the game andticket sales dropped merch stop
selling, they'd still be in the green.
So that would then allow the CDAmore salary cap, a substantial
(25:27):
raise. And what is that going to cost
in total? Let's say if they took the
current cap, which I think is around 1.5 million, and let's
say they just bumped it to four out of the raise of that huge TV
deal, that's 2.5 out of 115 million TV deal profit.
(25:47):
It's like it's so in some inconsequential to the amount of
money that would come into the league.
It doesn't make sense to not paythem more money, especially
again, no offense, NBAI know you're out there doing your own
thing. But if there's one individual
who is making more than your entire bench, do you not see
that they're in the in the scheme of things, that that is
not going to bring longevity to this league, especially with
(26:09):
those other five on five leaguesand unrivaled and the continued
in interest to bring American players overseas to improve
their own teams. Like, come on.
I don't I feel like this is pretty crystal clear.
And the only thing that keeps these women underpaid is greed,
is what it reads as. It's correct.
(26:31):
And then one other piece I want to bring up, which is like, OK,
you know, you could argue because of the murkiness, like,
well, we kind of just have to believe them at their word,
they're losing money, yadda, yadda.
One of the things I want to say,which should be crystal clear,
like how much things are worth, like the Golden State Valkyries
(26:54):
just recently got started. And so the financials behind
that are crystal clear that the Golden State Valkyries are
valued at $500 million. So that's not pretend money.
This is people putting up this money right now to just start
something because they realize the value.
So these are not people that arefoolish with their money.
(27:16):
The investors that do this are putting down real money for a
real reason. It's not like sentimental, like
the fever's been around for a long time.
Oh, you know, like, we got to keep this going.
It's for the community. No, like, that didn't exist
before. And people started this business
so that they can make a lot of money.
And it's currently worth $500 million.
(27:38):
So like, if you're wondering if the world, the financial world
is looking at WNBA and they're like, oh, oh, is this shaky?
Is this going to really happen? Yes, the answer is yes, it's
really happening. There's lots of money involved
and there's a ton going to be made as it grows.
Like what everyone's looking foris growth, and the WNBA has it.
(27:58):
Yeah, like we're growing so fast.
Like how many teams did you justannounce that you're going to be
rolling out over the next four or five years?
And the Liberty? And you're claiming you don't
have the money. You don't have the money, so
where are these teams? Why are we expanding?
Yeah. And then so the liberty just was
reevaluated as well. And I think they their value
wasn't as high as a Valkyrie, but it was I think what I saw
(28:18):
was in 2019. 420, yeah. It's 4:20.
But in 2019 they were 10 to 14,000,000.
I remember that because I just listened to a podcast.
So six years later, that increased to $420 billion.
And you're telling me there's noroom for growth or money that we
should be investing in women? It's there.
Oh, it makes me tired. It's there and it's a fact that
(28:39):
we're essentially just being lied to when everyone just keeps
quoting this 40 like there's a real negotiation happening and
only one side has the numbers and that side is not willing to
share it. And what they share is probably
dated and nowhere near especially what it's going to be
next year. And that's what we're talking
(29:00):
about. We're talking about next year
when we talk about the contracts.
So me and Keisha wanted to get that off of our chest, but it's
also important. This is what happened this week.
Almost as important as the fun of the All Star game was the
hard work that these amazing women are doing to try.
And it's not even just to get themselves paid.
(29:22):
It's not a greed thing. They're not just in this
negotiation to get themselves money.
But I think they know that if they can kind of move that dial
and get the actual fair pay thatthey deserve, that this is going
to lift the whole league becausethey're getting money and
they're getting all of the womenthat are coming after them paid,
(29:45):
which, I mean, is such a big deal and so huge and a fight
that needs to be fought right now.
Like I said, someone talk about like, oh, equality when they're
talking about the pay versus themen's pay.
And it's like, no, no, we're noteven talking about equality,
right. Like we're actually just talking
about like, fair wages for work put in.
(30:06):
Yeah. Because there is not.
There's not fair wages for the work put in for these women.
That's like a fact. So that's what we're actually
fighting for. We can talk about equality
later, but like, let's make surethat they can just have the one
job because we all want them to have this job, right?
We're all enjoying them doing itlike.
(30:26):
Yeah, I just, I saw something that said that Steph Curry, who
like again, nothing wrong with him.
Great guy, great shooter. He's getting paid you.
Know, I mean, maybe, you know, maybe he changed the game of
basketball forever. He might have.
Oh, maybe. Who knows?
Steph Curry, and I would say that you could say the same to
some of our current women in theWNBA have changed positions in
(30:47):
how we look at basketball. How much money is Steph Curry
getting paid to play basketball?I don't know, like $50?
$60 million. That's a lot of money.
That's a lot of money, and I'm not saying that he doesn't
deserve it. The rings speak for itself.
The shooting speaks for itself. The gold medal speaks for
itself. But I also want you to recognize
(31:10):
that there are this like women'sbasketball does not lose
internationally. If you want to keep the W as
competitive as it is and you don't want those players
breaking off and going, other teams invest.
It's that's what it's time to do.
Speaking of investing, Caitlin Clark's injured again.
(31:31):
Gosh, I don't know if you, if you're hearing this first from
us. First off, you got to you got to
think. You got to think your priorities
over. Got it.
I mean, I appreciate your loyalty, but catch a game, get a
little bit more news, watch a game, watch a game.
But Caitlin. So yeah, Lisa Leslie recently
(31:54):
spoke up and she was talking about Clark's injury and that
this is a tough one, right? So the soft tissue kind of and
the deep in the legs, like it's all kind of a system of muscles
that works together, you know? So when it was her quad, that
most likely we're not doctors here.
(32:15):
I mean, we're because of HIPAA, we're not going to get exactly
what happened inside of Caitlin's body, but most likely
led to the groin, which most likely led to the other.
Like your leg favors another thing, you start moving a little
different, the injuries kind of move around.
She said herself, she went through a very similar thing in
her career where she had one of those deep tissue injuries.
(32:39):
And, you know, the person interviewing her was like, how
long did it take you? And she's like, it still hurts
today. I was going to say, you know,
it's like, this is not the sort of thing that you necessarily
get better from. Like, your body needs to learn
how to adjust now that, like, your kind of system of muscles
down there is compromised. And like, it's not like
(33:01):
Caitlyn's not going to be the same player again, but it's
going to take her a little while.
Like, this is a serious problem.It's not like she tore
something. It's not like, you know, an ACL
or an Achilles, something we're used to seeing.
But she was just like, very candid, like, this is a problem.
This is a big moment in her career that they're going to
have to make sure they manage right.
(33:22):
Like, which, you know, thanks for sharing the truth, Lisa.
I didn't like it, but I appreciate it.
Thank you, Lisa. No, I, I did see that.
I do think though that we have to be prepared for her not to
(33:48):
shine as bright as we had anticipated because there is a
recovery process and there is anadjustment, correct?
And I think that there's a lot, whether you're a fan or or not,
you can't deny or ignore what she's done for one's basketball
in the last few years. Collegiately and now
professionally. There's a lot of pressure on her
to perform. And I hope that she has the
(34:10):
folks around her to remind her that, yes, we do want to see her
throw up those crazy logo threes.
But also, like, I want you to beable to do that for 10 plus
years. So yeah, don't blow it in your
sophomore. My hope, my hope is that she got
some of that during the All Star.
(34:30):
You know, she was surrounded by a lot of other women who
certainly have that wisdom. It would be fantastic if a
couple of them were like, hey, you see what you're going
through, Like you're a big deal.Like just chill.
You know, even if let's say you sit out all year, like next year
could be a big, huge year for you.
Like I hope that she got a lot of words like that.
(34:52):
That's like, in my mind, hopefully that was like what her
experience was, 'cause she definitely, I agree, needs
something like that. I don't know how you make
choices being in her position. I could never imagine the
pressure. It's really, it's hard.
So I've never had a deep muscle injury like that, but I did have
(35:16):
an unfortunate back and leg injury when I was playing in
junior college. And you're kind of always
straddling, straddling a line ofI love this more than anything
else in my life. I've dedicated my whole entire
life to the sport. Not playing hurts me.
Playing hurts me. Not playing hurts my team.
Playing hurts my team. It's a real mental battle of
(35:38):
figuring out what you can and can't get and being honest with
yourself. How hurt am I?
Should I try to play right now? It's it's really difficult.
It's especially when you're thisyoung and you may not.
And if it's your first serious injury, you may not know your
body that well when it comes to really understanding how far you
can push something like that. Yeah, no, absolutely.
(36:03):
I feel like you saw that play out on her face when she
reaggravated the groin or she technically didn't because it
was the different side, technically a different muscle.
But when that moment happened and you could tell it wasn't
even like she grimaced or anything.
She was just sitting there kind of rubbing it.
And you see the look of realization on her face like,
(36:23):
oh, I'm injured again. And it was just like this sad,
very slow, quiet. She kind of goes over to the the
basketball hoop and just kind oflike puts her head like on the
padding and you're just like, damn, man.
And even her teammates just saw her like through the towel over
and like, go ahead and cry aboutit, you know, like, 'cause like,
(36:45):
damn it. You can just see the even the
not explosiveness of the emotionwas also heartbreaking 'cause it
was just like she's like, OK, well.
I can only imagine, I can only imagine her thinking like this
is it's OK, it's OK. I just have to like walk it off.
It's going to be fine if I just sit down for a little bit, I'll
(37:07):
feel better there. There's just so much going
through your mind when you're dealing with that fresh injury
too, knowing that you're it's like, well, it's a new pain.
Maybe it's not as bad as the other side.
It's just it's it's really difficult.
I I wish her the best and I hopeshe can get healthy this season.
But if she can next season is a great way to show off all of
that hard work that you put intorecovery, getting your body
(37:30):
healthy. I mean, I think all people
forget for those who come into these rookie years, it's a lot
of basketball you go from. There's a lot of.
Basketball, playing your whole collegiate schedule to March
Madness to a short break and then you're a professional.
It's a lot of it's a lot of games on them legs.
(37:52):
No, it's insane the schedule that the women who come off a
deep playoff run go through. And then if you're wondering,
like, gosh, I wonder. But was it a particularly
difficult time? Well, you know, she only broke,
like, every record ever during that time.
So she's saying she's probably alittle bit tired.
(38:13):
Just, like a little bit tired. Yeah.
OK. So Speaking of losses, we lost
to the Liberty and we're playingthem again.
I got to say it kind of hurt when all these Liberty players
were like winning things and they would be like, oh, yeah,
well, you know, I guess we're sticking around here till
(38:35):
Tuesday. See you then.
That kind of hurt. I was in the stadium and all of
us were kind of like, oh. Didn't didn't really.
You did the. They're like, wish us luck.
They said wish us luck or not. And I was like, oh, you give it.
You know what? I was happy for you for a
moment. Then you just had to rub that in
there. Yeah.
(38:55):
So what are your thoughts? What can we possibly do?
Sands, Caitlin, to beat the liberty?
Can we, Keisha? Is it a thing that's possible?
It's. Definitely possible and again
I've said this time and time again, the great thing about
this league is that it's jam packed full of talent and any
game is a potential game for somebody to go off and surprise
you. With the Liberty it is.
(39:18):
It's just a really great team. They have a lot of veterans who
really understand basketball, but they also are tired, they
have some injuries and they are beatable.
It's a matter of taking good shot selection and not giving
them a lot of second chance opportunities.
It doesn't necessarily mean likeletting them get offensive
rebounds or things like that, but it's really more of
(39:42):
turnovers and using the shot clock, right?
You have to be really critical and strategic playing against
the likes of Sabrina and Sabali and Stewart.
Hopefully we're prepared to be alittle bit more mindful with the
ball and just make better decisions offensively.
(40:02):
That's a real way to beat New York is you can't give up those
offensive possessions without either getting fouled or getting
a basket. Do you think the defensive
gameplay that we saw, like versus the Lynx for instance, is
something that we can like? Can we match up defensively
against New York? It's in that way, or is it like
(40:26):
a match up problem? New York, it's it's a hard match
up because I mean, you're looking at really big guards and
and posts and again, Brianna Stewart is claiming to be a
forward, but where like prove it.
I don't trust that as a as a position for you when you bring
the ball up the core and you shoot threes all the day, all
(40:48):
day long. But sure you're a forward.
So it's making Brianna uncomfortable, it's forcing
Sabrina to pass and not take thethrees.
It's it's really making Natasha cloud the guard, the main guard
keeping the ball out of Sabrina's hand and not letting a
Sabali any Salah. Anytime we're playing against a
Sabali, don't let that Sabali get the ball.
That's one of my biggest pieces of advice.
(41:08):
Just a fun fact for you and thenFebich see you're.
Saying Natasha Cloud, who? The one that won the skill
challenge, Is that the one you're talking?
About versus Sabrina, who won the three-point shooting
challenge. Yeah, right.
So you're saying Natasha Cloud, who won the skills challenge,
that's the one we need to rely on to be the main ball handler
so we can win? So the thing about Natasha
(41:29):
Cloud, though, is yes, she has great handle.
She's a great passer, but she will make more mistakes passing
than Sabrina will, for sure. OK.
Which is a big, big complaint I had when she was with Phoenix
last year. So she's super smart, but when
it comes to ball handling, I'd rather see Natasha.
She doesn't have that same connection with the team yet
(41:52):
because she has. She is new to the team.
Sabrina knows where Brianna Stewart is all the time.
She knows her fee bitches. She knows where Kennedy Burke's
gonna be. Making Cloud make those
decisions, I think is a better option for us.
Yeah, she has handles, but if you can contain her, force her
to make the bad pass, I think that's a better look.
Don't let Brianna Stewart touch the ball.
Don't let Sabrina get those wideopen opportunities.
(42:14):
Those are those are going to always be tough.
But she likes to move. She likes to take a shot in
motion. So it's going to be just prevent
her from getting good looks. Keep her as far away from from
from Stewart as possible. It's going to be a tough game,
but it's very, very possible. Smart choices, good ball
handling, good good offensive management.
(42:36):
OK. Well, So what I hear is that we
got a tough battle ahead of us both on the court and in the
boardroom when it comes to the CBA discussions.
But I think our ladies can handle it.
I think they can do it. So with that, I just want to say
thank you. Thank you everybody for
(42:57):
listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed the
All Star Weekend festivities as much as I did, especially if
you're here in Indy, but we willsee you next week for another
Fever Replay podcast. See you guys.
Bye.
Friends, Fever fans, welcome back to another Fever Replay
podcast. You're home for a breakdown of
weekly Fever games and news. This podcast is brought to you
by the love of the game. Sometimes Smash Mouth gets it
(00:31):
perfectly right. For the love of the game I am
Chris Ord and I am joined by my lovely and talented Co host
Keisha Gallagher. Say hi, Keisha.
Hello, how are you, Chris? I'm doing great.
(00:51):
I'm pretty tired from this weekend, but it was a fun
weekend here in Indy and we're going to talk a lot about that
today. How are you?
I'm doing much better today. Yesterday I was having a little
bit of a migraine episode, whichis why we're a bit delayed.
But I'm, I'm back. I'm ready.
I'm ready to talk about basketball.
Those are my least favorite episodes.
(01:13):
It's a bad time, migraine episode.
It's a bad time. All right, so Keisha, it was
just All Star Weekend and it's always so interesting.
To the surprise of no one, everything about the All Star
Weekend was much more exciting than the basketball game itself.
Not a surprise, but once again, true.
(01:38):
Let's touch on the game a tiny bit.
What were your thoughts? You know, game.
To call this a game of basketball is very generous.
It's like, you know what I'd like to see?
What if no one played defense? What if it was just offense, the
offense, And that's what that was?
I was watching with my parents, so I'm very happy to have in
town, but my dad kept saying especially 'cause they'd go to
(01:59):
interview Caitlin Clarke and she'd be like, what do I want to
see? I want to see more 4 pointers,
no defense. And I, I love that.
I appreciate it because she's being very real.
No one's out here to play defense.
That's not what anyone wants to see.
And we all want to see those 4 pointers, baby.
But my dad was like, what? That's the opposite, blah, blah,
(02:19):
blah. I'm like, dad, this isn't, this
isn't basketball, OK? It's not what we're witnessing.
And no one, and I mean no one inthe arena watching from home,
playing on the court, wants to see one of these women get hurt.
No game, no. That's and that you know.
What? I think that that's what
everyone signed up for was let'sgive the people an offensive
(02:41):
show. We don't need to to do any
defensive maneuvers here. We don't.
We're already playing with people who are injured.
I think Jackie Young played for like 10 seconds, then she was
done. Everyone is kind of nursing and
hobbling through it right now. Let's just have a good time,
give the people a high score. First triple double ever.
New scoring record for the All Star game.
(03:04):
So it was still entertaining even if it wasn't the
traditional basketball you may have been looking for.
Yeah, like I knew we weren't going to get what we got last
year, which was really somethingvery special.
That's specific to the Olympic. Olympic seasons, yeah.
Yeah, as far as all professional, All Star games are
concerned, that was just chef's kiss.
(03:27):
Absolute fantastic sports last year.
I knew we weren't going to get that.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
This was an entertaining weekend.
Just in general. I think my favorite thing about
the All Stars is seeing everybody together, seeing them
hanging out, and for the first time ever, we got to be there
with them for 72 hours straight.Thanks to Stud Buds.
(03:51):
If you missed out, if you didn'tknow what Stud Buds was, yeah.
So Courtney Williams has had a live stream for 72 hours
straight where she was just had us in the action, even on the
game. I had the game on TV and
honestly, I was watching the stud Buds feed way more because
it was like, when do I get to sit, like, right behind the
(04:12):
bench and like, chatted up with the players during an All Star
game. That was great.
In general. I liked all the camaraderie we
saw. I loved it was just fun time.
I was just having a fun time. Yeah, I mean, the three-point
shooting, I don't know. The contest between Sabrina is
so exciting to watch in general,but when she gets into that
(04:36):
flow, 11 threes in a row. 11 in a row insane.
Just and Keisha, I don't know ifyou know this I I was in the
building. I do.
Know this very exciting. Yeah, my family, I was there
with my parents. I was there with my kids and
they kept turning me and they'relike how much is a lot like what
should we be expecting? And I was like oh man, if anyone
gets in the high 20s it's going to be like really impressive and
(04:58):
they're like OK, yeah, high 20s and people are getting low 20s,
mid 20s and they're like oh, OK,yeah, yeah.
And then she busts out at 30 andthey're like how much is that?
And I was like the second best ever, I think.
And they're like, who got the first best?
I'm like her. She did it.
She did the other best. It was very, very exciting, cool
(05:18):
time. A little bummed about Lexi.
She caught heat in the second-half but she couldn't hit
anything in the very beginning. I I just can't imagine the, I
mean, it's one thing to play in front.
I mean, especially if you're Lexi, you do play in sold out
crowds often, but the amount of pressure to have no team on the
court, just you in Iraq. And I don't know if people
(05:40):
really understand how difficult it is to shoot off of Iraq.
Yeah, it is so different the mechanics of your shot.
Slightly different. Just forget about it.
Yeah, you're doing something brand new.
And if you have been practicing,it's gonna, it's gonna be a
little funky, but. That's what it look like too.
I think that she was definitely rattled in the beginning.
You can tell she was kind of notsitting on her feet, you know?
(06:02):
But then by the end, after just shooting and shooting, she was
like 03 points. I know how to do this.
Actually. I'm actually one of the best at
this. So it was fun.
It was fun. The whole indie crowd,
obviously, between Lexi Hall andthen during the skills challenge
with E Weezy, Erica Wheeler, they both were like home field
(06:23):
advantage for sure. The DJ kept being like, let's
hear it for the other teams. And we were like, if they don't
do something crazy cool, we're really rooting for these two
ladies. I hope you know this.
Yeah. The only thing that.
The Sabrina did do something crazy.
Cool. The only thing I feel like
didn't get enough praise though was like Sabrina also gave half
(06:45):
of her winnings to Sonia Citron which is so cool and I know she
was so sweet. And that was the reason, too.
Like, I love that reason. Yeah.
I give half of it to Sony because she just seemed so
nervous out there. And I was just proud of her
going out there and doing it. And I know how much pressure
there is. And so I just wanted to throw it
to her. And it's like, what?
Come on. That's like a cool reason, you
(07:07):
know, and not like the standard.It's not like the standard like
athlete, like, oh, I did it to like, you don't hear people say
that, oh, there was a rookie here.
They seem nervous. So I wanted to throw them my
winnings. Like what?
Heck no, that's not a thing. Not even like here's 10K.
Thanks for showing up, I know itwas tough.
You must have been stressed. Half of my winnings.
Half of them. It's pretty crazy.
(07:30):
Very cool. No, I mean, that was the cool
thing. It felt like the WNBA players
were like a connected community this weekend.
That's kind of that's what it felt like 100%, which was really
cool, especially because the media likes to pit everybody
against each other. I mean, especially like, you
(07:51):
know, we heard about Caitlin allthe time and he didn't really
get a whiff of anything. It was just having a good time.
Like she's hanging out, everyone's hanging out.
It didn't really seem like anybody's treating anybody
different. No, I'll just.
And that's, and that's, I think that was really special with the
the coverage that you got over the weekend, especially coming
from the stud buds. But like, these are just friends
(08:13):
who have a passion for basketball, who finally got
together and didn't have the stress and the concerns of the
schedule and the lineups and therosters and plays.
It was just an opportunity to hang out and do something you
love to do. Like, that's great.
I'm glad that we get to see thatand that it's continuing to
grow, become this larger event, especially for the women,
considering how hard they've hadto work to even get to a
(08:35):
platform like this where you canhave winnings like that.
Mm hmm, absolutely. And like, like you said, the fun
and hanging out was something that Indy took very seriously.
So like, you know, I went downtown, went there with the
kids. We had a fantastic time.
(08:57):
Like, First off, just the artwork that's all over, like
every building we like, drove around for a while.
Like, looking at this, looking at that, like checking out.
They had renamed the streets, you know, after the Teams.
But they weren't like Alaska. My daughter was like, oh, like,
wait, that one says aces. But the other ones in Vegas,
(09:17):
she's like, it's some cities andsome of the names I don't know.
And we're driving shot. She's like, we got to find
Fever. We got to find Fever.
And so when we found it and it was it's called Fever Court.
And she was like, that's the coolest.
It was just kind of fun to feel like the city was embracing the
women's game in a big way. And it was cool.
Like, just as a fan of basketball in general, like
(09:40):
right in the centre of town in Monument Circle, they have,
like, all these basketball hoopsset up with racks of balls.
And there were, like, volunteersthere, like, shagging balls for
you. And everyone's just having a
good time playing, shooting, getting free, little, like, fans
and basketballs and signing things.
Like there were big walls where you can sign stuff.
(10:00):
And my daughter was shouting outFever replay on it.
And I put a little prayer for Caitlyn's growing there.
Yeah. Important prayers.
The important stuff. The important stuff is what you
put on the wall, so. But it's a really good time and
I felt like Indy knocked it out of the park.
It was just such positivity and fun and that's it kind of what
(10:23):
the whole weekend was about, which was super cool.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it should
just be an Indy moving forward, how well they put it on.
But we'll see what they decide. I agree.
I agree with that and I think myopinion is very objective on the
subject. I wouldn't say the fact that I
live here has any effect. No bias whatsoever.
(10:44):
No, I think it'd just be best served here in Indy.
So yeah, I mean, that was my experience kind of on the
ground. What was like a a fun take away
for you? I mean, in general, I thought
that the the city put on a greatevent.
I was super excited to see all of the best players get together
(11:06):
and just have a good time. One thing I thought that was
really crazy though was so I don't know if you are aware of
this, but recently Collier signed a deal with Jordan that's
pretty substantial. And so after she just had it
raining crazy points all game during the All Star game, Jordan
brought out like all of these giant trucks just highlighting
(11:28):
Collier was like future MVP which was pretty insane.
I don't know, I don't know wherethese trucks were.
I wanted to see them so bad though.
Were they just driving around the city?
Yeah, they were just like like back-to-back lines of trucks.
It may gotta figure out where this was, but I, I was wondering
if anybody saw them or if anybody had caught a caught a
glimpse. But I saw all these trucks lined
(11:49):
up in this advertisement for forher and it just looked insane.
I mean, the, the groundbreaking deals that have come over the
last few years for shoes and brands like this is this is a
huge deal for her. Oh yes, I found it.
Yes, Jordan Jordan brand rolled out trucks with digital
billboards to celebrate Collier's 2025 WNBA All Star
(12:12):
Game MVP award. And it is they're really cool.
I'll if I, if I can find a video, I'll send you a video.
But these trucks are rad. Awesome.
So that's something we'll put upfor those of you listening,
we'll just put it up on our Insta.
If you haven't checked us out there, give us a follow, but
we'll kind of be throwing thingsthat we talk about that are more
(12:33):
visual. They'll probably go up on there.
So it's just fever replay on Instagram.
You know, maybe we'll go on other socials down the road, but
that's where we are right now. So one thing, as long as we're
talking about making deals and money, I don't know.
Did you notice the wardrobe change, Keisha?
(12:53):
I did. That happened right in the
beginning of the All Star game. I did notice that.
Yes, 100% of the players took off their shirts and it said pay
us what you owe us. That was pretty cool.
I, I literally got chow. I, I did too.
I did not expect that play, but I'm happy that they're demanding
(13:17):
their, their bag. They deserve it.
I'd I cannot believe how little these incredible athletes are
compensated for what they do in comparison to other professional
athletes. Or just in comparison to normal
jobs, 'cause once again, I know that this is like below the
minimum, right? Because Arie signed a partial
(13:42):
contract, right? But I just want to remind you,
Arie McDonald is on a contract where she gets paid $53,000.
Now, I don't know what you make,Keisha, but I know you make more
than that. Let's just say that, right?
And I think a lot of people listening make more than that.
If they don't, they're trying tomake that.
And I think we all agree that Arie would play better
(14:04):
basketball if she was paid enough to, you know, live a life
in the city she works in. I think she would probably play
better. And I think if we're not paying
them enough to play like at their peak performance, then
we're not really invested in theleague.
That's kind of, I would say justlike right off the bat, yeah.
(14:26):
It's just kind of crazy. I think you said that like
perfectly is what is what kind of expectations can you have for
your team, for your players whenso many of them are making below
minimum wage? Like they're making less than
50,000 a year 6 maybe the average is hovering around 6060
thousand. OK.
And then what? When they're not playing
basketball anymore and it's the offseason, how are they supposed
(14:49):
to make? Yeah.
So. What do you expect?
Them to do the league minimum contract is 66,000 and $79.
Well, I include that 79 because it's a significant portion and
then that's for people with zeroto two years, three or more.
The minimum is 78831. So I myself on my time when I'm
(15:13):
not a podcaster, I'm a banker here in Indianapolis.
So I happen to see a large number of incomes come through
who live in this same exact area.
And I will say that if they're aprofessional who's been at their
job for a fair amount and are anywhere near the top half of
(15:33):
the expertise, you know, scale, they would be making more than
this pretty much any field of expertise well.
I mean, I think the other thing that is so hard for me to
swallow when it comes to the discrepancy and pay as we, we
often want to compare them to the dub, the WNBA to the NBA.
(15:56):
And I know that that you can't, it's just not the same.
The the longevity of the NBA speaks to exactly why it's in a
position as in now. But I just want people to
understand and, and this may be this figure may be wrong, but a
figure I came across that blew my mind is that the WNBA rookie
minimum is hovering around 66 like you said compared to the
(16:16):
NBA. Do you know what that minimum
is? This.
Is around 1,000,000. Is that 1.27 million?
Yeah, and I'm sorry because .27,the part that I ignored is
almost four times the minimum ofthe West, which is insane.
It's insane to me. It is insane to me and I just, I
(16:38):
don't know. I don't really.
I mean, I just don't get it. I don't understand.
Yeah, So what we're going to do,we're going to dive straight
into kind of this kind of financial aspect.
It's a big part of the league right now.
Clearly, the players have meant twice now to renegotiate the
collective bargaining agreement.They had their biggest group of
(17:01):
them ever meet right before the All Star Game.
No one's really happy about how the meetings are going on either
side. And one of the things I want to
address is you hear it over and over and over and over and over
again ad nauseam that why could they get more money if the WNBA
(17:24):
loses for a $40 million a year. And I think that's a good
question if I'm misinformed. So we're going to kind of talk a
little bit about that. So as I said, I am a banker
during the day and one of the things I focus on is businesses.
(17:44):
So I think it's really importantright off the bat to give some
context on what it means to losemoney each year, right?
Because most people, I think don't run a business.
Most people are just kind of their own person.
And if you thought, gosh, I'm losing money each year, that
would mean that you probably arenow homeless, right?
(18:05):
Like we all need to be making money.
But the fact is like personal finances and business finances
are very, very different things.And really on the business side,
you look at losses and you look at gains in a different way.
Really, if you make a profit or not doesn't mean you're not
getting paid. You still get paid, but your
business might not profit. And that just means that you
(18:26):
have more liabilities than assets that year.
And if you're a company that is trying to grow, it's very common
that you would not turn a profitbecause you're investing back
into your own business in a lot of different ways.
And as you invest in your own business, you're going to eat
into your own profits. You're not going to pay yourself
(18:47):
extra, you're going to invest back into your business.
You might increase your liabilities.
Like if you think about a manufacturing company, they
might buy $1,000,000 machines that they couldn't pay for with
their current output, but it will allow them to have a
greater output in the coming years, which will then yield
profits. So that's where we are right
(19:09):
now. The NBA didn't become
consistently profitable until the late 80s, which is like the
Magic Johnson Larry Bird sort ofera.
And if you compare that to the West, we're not at the Magic
Johnson Larry Bird era of the West.
You know, we're maybe getting there, might be getting there,
(19:30):
could be very exciting if we getthere, But that's not where we
are right now. And when we talk about this
growth that we're seeing, we're seeing, you know, a new TV deal
that's coming out next year. We're seeing crazy record
setting attendance, crazy recordsetting viewership, crazy record
(19:52):
setting jersey sales. This is not the time to put your
foot on the brake, right? Now's the time to put your foot
on the gas. Like if we want to actually
capture all this attention, you want to invest.
In the thing that's going to help you get better and the
thing that is going to help the WNBA get better is the players.
(20:17):
That's the product. The whole product is the
players. Anything else that the money is
doing, if you're talking about profitability, could not be more
important than making sure the players are happy and able to
perform at their very best. And as we discussed like these,
this amount of money isn't enough.
(20:38):
Like someone who lives in the Indy area needs to make more
money than this. So they would have to get a
second job outside of the WNBA, which if you had a second job on
top of yours, you're probably going to underperform at your
job. That's just how it works.
Also, I mean, for those who may not know, there is no offseason
(21:02):
like there is an offseason, but there's not because you're a
professional athlete and especially if you're a female
athlete in the WNBA, these womenregularly get waved added back,
waved added back, Won't play fortwo or three seasons, have to go
overseas, play in three on threein Europe, will maybe find an
opportunity to try the five on five offseasons that don't
(21:24):
compete with the WNBA. There is no break.
You have to constantly be in shape.
You have to constantly be at thetop, the tip top of performance.
There are no days off if you want to stay relevant.
That is so demanding and then you're still not getting paid.
You're still not getting paid. It is crazy.
(21:45):
It is. So when we look at that was just
context, right? So then when we look at the
numbers of the 40,000 supposedly, so when we look at
that number that was stated, that was a number stated by both
the WNBA like representatives and also the NBA ones, but they
didn't like say this with a financial report, just for the
(22:08):
record, right, The actual line by line finances of the WNBA are
super murky. Every once in a while someone
will throw a number out and it'slike, OK, hopefully we believe
that, You know what I mean? They didn't say, oh, this is the
case because money goes here, money goes here, money goes
there. That's why we're losing this
(22:29):
much. They just said, oh, yeah, we
lost that much. You know, one thing that was
stated was that Adam Silver, whois the commissioner of the men's
league of basketball known as the NBA, said that they cost the
NBA 10 million a year. Now, for context sake, 10
million a year is 10 minimum players.
(22:53):
That's like just for for how much money that is, that is 10
minimum level contract players. Like some guy that you're like,
oh gosh, we could use one more tall person.
I'll pay you, Sir, come up from the G League so you can sit on
the bench in case someone gets hurt.
That's how much exactly 10 players is how much.
(23:14):
So when people say, oh, the NBA is is like the only thing
holding it afloat, It's like, no, they're yes, they pay some
money in, but they pay 10 million.
That is not a significant sum tothe NBA just for the record,
right. And then when we look at, for
instance, they're saying that this new media package, cause
(23:36):
the old one is going to end at the end of this season and then
we get a new one in 2026, is said that it's going to bring in
$2.2 billion over the next 11 years, $2.2 billion right, over
the next 11 years. So that will considerably
increase the WS take from its present 60 million.
(23:59):
So this concept like this is thereason we want to lock up.
The players want to lock up their pay now because the money
is coming and if it doesn't go to them, it's going to go
somewhere else. And the question is why would
the players stay here? Why wouldn't they just go play
like in Australia where they'll get paid better or in Europe
(24:20):
will they get paid better or in China will they get paid better?
Like why would they stay? They want to stay.
They want to stay and play here in the US, but they're asking
why should we if you're going tojust make all this money from us
and ship it out next year to I don't even know where, nobody
(24:41):
knows where. Yeah, no, it's it's pretty it's
pretty infuriating to have to defend why someone who works as
hard as these women do deserve more money.
But it is crazy to to to know that the sweeping statement of
well, the WNBA did lose $40 million in 2024 without any
(25:04):
sighting of sources or explaining what that really
means is crazy. Especially 'cause you explain
the net gain of 115,000,000 juston that TV deal alone would mean
that even if the if the game andticket sales dropped merch stop
selling, they'd still be in the green.
So that would then allow the CDAmore salary cap, a substantial
(25:27):
raise. And what is that going to cost
in total? Let's say if they took the
current cap, which I think is around 1.5 million, and let's
say they just bumped it to four out of the raise of that huge TV
deal, that's 2.5 out of 115 million TV deal profit.
(25:47):
It's like it's so in some inconsequential to the amount of
money that would come into the league.
It doesn't make sense to not paythem more money, especially
again, no offense, NBAI know you're out there doing your own
thing. But if there's one individual
who is making more than your entire bench, do you not see
that they're in the in the scheme of things, that that is
not going to bring longevity to this league, especially with
(26:09):
those other five on five leaguesand unrivaled and the continued
in interest to bring American players overseas to improve
their own teams. Like, come on.
I don't I feel like this is pretty crystal clear.
And the only thing that keeps these women underpaid is greed,
is what it reads as. It's correct.
(26:31):
And then one other piece I want to bring up, which is like, OK,
you know, you could argue because of the murkiness, like,
well, we kind of just have to believe them at their word,
they're losing money, yadda, yadda.
One of the things I want to say,which should be crystal clear,
like how much things are worth, like the Golden State Valkyries
(26:54):
just recently got started. And so the financials behind
that are crystal clear that the Golden State Valkyries are
valued at $500 million. So that's not pretend money.
This is people putting up this money right now to just start
something because they realize the value.
So these are not people that arefoolish with their money.
(27:16):
The investors that do this are putting down real money for a
real reason. It's not like sentimental, like
the fever's been around for a long time.
Oh, you know, like, we got to keep this going.
It's for the community. No, like, that didn't exist
before. And people started this business
so that they can make a lot of money.
And it's currently worth $500 million.
(27:38):
So like, if you're wondering if the world, the financial world
is looking at WNBA and they're like, oh, oh, is this shaky?
Is this going to really happen? Yes, the answer is yes, it's
really happening. There's lots of money involved
and there's a ton going to be made as it grows.
Like what everyone's looking foris growth, and the WNBA has it.
(27:58):
Yeah, like we're growing so fast.
Like how many teams did you justannounce that you're going to be
rolling out over the next four or five years?
And the Liberty? And you're claiming you don't
have the money. You don't have the money, so
where are these teams? Why are we expanding?
Yeah. And then so the liberty just was
reevaluated as well. And I think they their value
wasn't as high as a Valkyrie, but it was I think what I saw
(28:18):
was in 2019. 420, yeah. It's 4:20.
But in 2019 they were 10 to 14,000,000.
I remember that because I just listened to a podcast.
So six years later, that increased to $420 billion.
And you're telling me there's noroom for growth or money that we
should be investing in women? It's there.
Oh, it makes me tired. It's there and it's a fact that
(28:39):
we're essentially just being lied to when everyone just keeps
quoting this 40 like there's a real negotiation happening and
only one side has the numbers and that side is not willing to
share it. And what they share is probably
dated and nowhere near especially what it's going to be
next year. And that's what we're talking
(29:00):
about. We're talking about next year
when we talk about the contracts.
So me and Keisha wanted to get that off of our chest, but it's
also important. This is what happened this week.
Almost as important as the fun of the All Star game was the
hard work that these amazing women are doing to try.
And it's not even just to get themselves paid.
(29:22):
It's not a greed thing. They're not just in this
negotiation to get themselves money.
But I think they know that if they can kind of move that dial
and get the actual fair pay thatthey deserve, that this is going
to lift the whole league becausethey're getting money and
they're getting all of the womenthat are coming after them paid,
(29:45):
which, I mean, is such a big deal and so huge and a fight
that needs to be fought right now.
Like I said, someone talk about like, oh, equality when they're
talking about the pay versus themen's pay.
And it's like, no, no, we're noteven talking about equality,
right. Like we're actually just talking
about like, fair wages for work put in.
(30:06):
Yeah. Because there is not.
There's not fair wages for the work put in for these women.
That's like a fact. So that's what we're actually
fighting for. We can talk about equality
later, but like, let's make surethat they can just have the one
job because we all want them to have this job, right?
We're all enjoying them doing itlike.
(30:26):
Yeah, I just, I saw something that said that Steph Curry, who
like again, nothing wrong with him.
Great guy, great shooter. He's getting paid you.
Know, I mean, maybe, you know, maybe he changed the game of
basketball forever. He might have.
Oh, maybe. Who knows?
Steph Curry, and I would say that you could say the same to
some of our current women in theWNBA have changed positions in
(30:47):
how we look at basketball. How much money is Steph Curry
getting paid to play basketball?I don't know, like $50?
$60 million. That's a lot of money.
That's a lot of money, and I'm not saying that he doesn't
deserve it. The rings speak for itself.
The shooting speaks for itself. The gold medal speaks for
itself. But I also want you to recognize
(31:10):
that there are this like women'sbasketball does not lose
internationally. If you want to keep the W as
competitive as it is and you don't want those players
breaking off and going, other teams invest.
It's that's what it's time to do.
Speaking of investing, Caitlin Clark's injured again.
(31:31):
Gosh, I don't know if you, if you're hearing this first from
us. First off, you got to you got to
think. You got to think your priorities
over. Got it.
I mean, I appreciate your loyalty, but catch a game, get a
little bit more news, watch a game, watch a game.
But Caitlin. So yeah, Lisa Leslie recently
(31:54):
spoke up and she was talking about Clark's injury and that
this is a tough one, right? So the soft tissue kind of and
the deep in the legs, like it's all kind of a system of muscles
that works together, you know? So when it was her quad, that
most likely we're not doctors here.
(32:15):
I mean, we're because of HIPAA, we're not going to get exactly
what happened inside of Caitlin's body, but most likely
led to the groin, which most likely led to the other.
Like your leg favors another thing, you start moving a little
different, the injuries kind of move around.
She said herself, she went through a very similar thing in
her career where she had one of those deep tissue injuries.
(32:39):
And, you know, the person interviewing her was like, how
long did it take you? And she's like, it still hurts
today. I was going to say, you know,
it's like, this is not the sort of thing that you necessarily
get better from. Like, your body needs to learn
how to adjust now that, like, your kind of system of muscles
down there is compromised. And like, it's not like
(33:01):
Caitlyn's not going to be the same player again, but it's
going to take her a little while.
Like, this is a serious problem.It's not like she tore
something. It's not like, you know, an ACL
or an Achilles, something we're used to seeing.
But she was just like, very candid, like, this is a problem.
This is a big moment in her career that they're going to
have to make sure they manage right.
(33:22):
Like, which, you know, thanks for sharing the truth, Lisa.
I didn't like it, but I appreciate it.
Thank you, Lisa. No, I, I did see that.
I do think though that we have to be prepared for her not to
(33:48):
shine as bright as we had anticipated because there is a
recovery process and there is anadjustment, correct?
And I think that there's a lot, whether you're a fan or or not,
you can't deny or ignore what she's done for one's basketball
in the last few years. Collegiately and now
professionally. There's a lot of pressure on her
to perform. And I hope that she has the
(34:10):
folks around her to remind her that, yes, we do want to see her
throw up those crazy logo threes.
But also, like, I want you to beable to do that for 10 plus
years. So yeah, don't blow it in your
sophomore. My hope, my hope is that she got
some of that during the All Star.
(34:30):
You know, she was surrounded by a lot of other women who
certainly have that wisdom. It would be fantastic if a
couple of them were like, hey, you see what you're going
through, Like you're a big deal.Like just chill.
You know, even if let's say you sit out all year, like next year
could be a big, huge year for you.
Like I hope that she got a lot of words like that.
(34:52):
That's like, in my mind, hopefully that was like what her
experience was, 'cause she definitely, I agree, needs
something like that. I don't know how you make
choices being in her position. I could never imagine the
pressure. It's really, it's hard.
So I've never had a deep muscle injury like that, but I did have
(35:16):
an unfortunate back and leg injury when I was playing in
junior college. And you're kind of always
straddling, straddling a line ofI love this more than anything
else in my life. I've dedicated my whole entire
life to the sport. Not playing hurts me.
Playing hurts me. Not playing hurts my team.
Playing hurts my team. It's a real mental battle of
(35:38):
figuring out what you can and can't get and being honest with
yourself. How hurt am I?
Should I try to play right now? It's it's really difficult.
It's especially when you're thisyoung and you may not.
And if it's your first serious injury, you may not know your
body that well when it comes to really understanding how far you
can push something like that. Yeah, no, absolutely.
(36:03):
I feel like you saw that play out on her face when she
reaggravated the groin or she technically didn't because it
was the different side, technically a different muscle.
But when that moment happened and you could tell it wasn't
even like she grimaced or anything.
She was just sitting there kind of rubbing it.
And you see the look of realization on her face like,
(36:23):
oh, I'm injured again. And it was just like this sad,
very slow, quiet. She kind of goes over to the the
basketball hoop and just kind oflike puts her head like on the
padding and you're just like, damn, man.
And even her teammates just saw her like through the towel over
and like, go ahead and cry aboutit, you know, like, 'cause like,
(36:45):
damn it. You can just see the even the
not explosiveness of the emotionwas also heartbreaking 'cause it
was just like she's like, OK, well.
I can only imagine, I can only imagine her thinking like this
is it's OK, it's OK. I just have to like walk it off.
It's going to be fine if I just sit down for a little bit, I'll
(37:07):
feel better there. There's just so much going
through your mind when you're dealing with that fresh injury
too, knowing that you're it's like, well, it's a new pain.
Maybe it's not as bad as the other side.
It's just it's it's really difficult.
I I wish her the best and I hopeshe can get healthy this season.
But if she can next season is a great way to show off all of
that hard work that you put intorecovery, getting your body
(37:30):
healthy. I mean, I think all people
forget for those who come into these rookie years, it's a lot
of basketball you go from. There's a lot of.
Basketball, playing your whole collegiate schedule to March
Madness to a short break and then you're a professional.
It's a lot of it's a lot of games on them legs.
(37:52):
No, it's insane the schedule that the women who come off a
deep playoff run go through. And then if you're wondering,
like, gosh, I wonder. But was it a particularly
difficult time? Well, you know, she only broke,
like, every record ever during that time.
So she's saying she's probably alittle bit tired.
(38:13):
Just, like a little bit tired. Yeah.
OK. So Speaking of losses, we lost
to the Liberty and we're playingthem again.
I got to say it kind of hurt when all these Liberty players
were like winning things and they would be like, oh, yeah,
well, you know, I guess we're sticking around here till
(38:35):
Tuesday. See you then.
That kind of hurt. I was in the stadium and all of
us were kind of like, oh. Didn't didn't really.
You did the. They're like, wish us luck.
They said wish us luck or not. And I was like, oh, you give it.
You know what? I was happy for you for a
moment. Then you just had to rub that in
there. Yeah.
(38:55):
So what are your thoughts? What can we possibly do?
Sands, Caitlin, to beat the liberty?
Can we, Keisha? Is it a thing that's possible?
It's. Definitely possible and again
I've said this time and time again, the great thing about
this league is that it's jam packed full of talent and any
game is a potential game for somebody to go off and surprise
you. With the Liberty it is.
(39:18):
It's just a really great team. They have a lot of veterans who
really understand basketball, but they also are tired, they
have some injuries and they are beatable.
It's a matter of taking good shot selection and not giving
them a lot of second chance opportunities.
It doesn't necessarily mean likeletting them get offensive
rebounds or things like that, but it's really more of
(39:42):
turnovers and using the shot clock, right?
You have to be really critical and strategic playing against
the likes of Sabrina and Sabali and Stewart.
Hopefully we're prepared to be alittle bit more mindful with the
ball and just make better decisions offensively.
(40:02):
That's a real way to beat New York is you can't give up those
offensive possessions without either getting fouled or getting
a basket. Do you think the defensive
gameplay that we saw, like versus the Lynx for instance, is
something that we can like? Can we match up defensively
against New York? It's in that way, or is it like
(40:26):
a match up problem? New York, it's it's a hard match
up because I mean, you're looking at really big guards and
and posts and again, Brianna Stewart is claiming to be a
forward, but where like prove it.
I don't trust that as a as a position for you when you bring
the ball up the core and you shoot threes all the day, all
(40:48):
day long. But sure you're a forward.
So it's making Brianna uncomfortable, it's forcing
Sabrina to pass and not take thethrees.
It's it's really making Natasha cloud the guard, the main guard
keeping the ball out of Sabrina's hand and not letting a
Sabali any Salah. Anytime we're playing against a
Sabali, don't let that Sabali get the ball.
That's one of my biggest pieces of advice.
(41:08):
Just a fun fact for you and thenFebich see you're.
Saying Natasha Cloud, who? The one that won the skill
challenge, Is that the one you're talking?
About versus Sabrina, who won the three-point shooting
challenge. Yeah, right.
So you're saying Natasha Cloud, who won the skills challenge,
that's the one we need to rely on to be the main ball handler
so we can win? So the thing about Natasha
(41:29):
Cloud, though, is yes, she has great handle.
She's a great passer, but she will make more mistakes passing
than Sabrina will, for sure. OK.
Which is a big, big complaint I had when she was with Phoenix
last year. So she's super smart, but when
it comes to ball handling, I'd rather see Natasha.
She doesn't have that same connection with the team yet
(41:52):
because she has. She is new to the team.
Sabrina knows where Brianna Stewart is all the time.
She knows her fee bitches. She knows where Kennedy Burke's
gonna be. Making Cloud make those
decisions, I think is a better option for us.
Yeah, she has handles, but if you can contain her, force her
to make the bad pass, I think that's a better look.
Don't let Brianna Stewart touch the ball.
Don't let Sabrina get those wideopen opportunities.
(42:14):
Those are those are going to always be tough.
But she likes to move. She likes to take a shot in
motion. So it's going to be just prevent
her from getting good looks. Keep her as far away from from
from Stewart as possible. It's going to be a tough game,
but it's very, very possible. Smart choices, good ball
handling, good good offensive management.
(42:36):
OK. Well, So what I hear is that we
got a tough battle ahead of us both on the court and in the
boardroom when it comes to the CBA discussions.
But I think our ladies can handle it.
I think they can do it. So with that, I just want to say
thank you. Thank you everybody for
(42:57):
listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed the
All Star Weekend festivities as much as I did, especially if
you're here in Indy, but we willsee you next week for another
Fever Replay podcast. See you guys.
Bye.
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