#3 - Claude, Milan de Reede, Cheapy: Basepoker, Nano-GPT, BCH Foundation - Fiendish & Friends

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all you green-eyed fiends and welcome to

(00:04):
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(01:17):
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(02:32):
from the horses, or better said, cat's mouth, as Chipe joins us to discuss all his work and efforts
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(03:45):
to keep up to date with the coolest, the hottest Freedom Tech information and money and finance news.
On today's episode we have joining us Claude from BasePoker to discuss what their platform offers
and why BCH is their default currency of choice. Milan Deride, sorry Milan Deride if I'm
pronouncing that correctly, formerly known as Mira Hurley joins to talk about the importance of P2P

(04:10):
cash, NanoGPT, and what Bitcoin Cash would need to offer to get him to drop everything and become
a green Bitcoin advocate. Chi P from the Bitcoin Cash News and founder of the BCH Foundation is
with us to talk about all the things he is up to supporting Bitcoin Cash and his current FUNme
fundraiser. That was the news. So let's get the party started and give a big warm welcome to our

(04:35):
first speaker Claude from BasePoker. Hi Claude and welcome to Fiendish and Friends.
Now what if you're there you have to press the unmute button so that we can hear you.
It seems like Claude is having some issues with his mic.

(05:10):
Milan can you hear me? Yep, yeah. Okay good just to make sure that so
Just to make sure you didn't have to do that entire intro all over again.
That wouldn't be fun. Okay well hopefully Claude will be able to figure out his problems that he's

(05:32):
having with Twitter. So we'll move on to our next guest who's come on who we know has can work the
microphone so please welcome Milan formerly known as Mira Hurley which many of you will probably know
Nano Advocate and Nano GPT Developer. Milan welcome to Fiendish and Friends. Thank you I think you
were close with my name by the way but it's a very difficult name it's Dutch so it's not very easy

(05:55):
to pronounce for people who don't speak Dutch I think. Then could you say your name in four so
we can hear and maybe I can try getting it right. In Dutch it would be Milan de Rede
and I see Rob who I know is Dutch so he will be able to pronounce it but for the rest yeah
Milan or Milan or Milan de Rede everything works I'll accept anything that sounds remotely like my name.

(06:22):
Fantastic so you're pretty easy going then. Yeah yeah have to be with such a name like
going abroad is not easy. Yeah sure so I actually live in Germany so I'm used to people calling me
me by all kinds of different pronunciations for my name and I'm also very accepting of that so for me

(06:43):
Dutch and German isn't too wide-angle in the end so yeah should be able to pronounce it better.
Milan before we discuss PTP Cache and the Mira Hurley backstory for those that are listening
and don't know you would you like to introduce yourself just give a bit about who you are what
you do and why you're so active in this space. Yeah sure so I'm Milan obviously I've been

(07:07):
active in crypto since 2012 back then it was only bitcoin of course my activity in crypto is sort of
wax and waned I guess but have been more active since 2017-18. I then joined the Dutch Central Bank
around the same time so I have some experience sort of in the system and in the crypto ecosystem

(07:30):
and then quit the central bank about two and a half years ago nowadays I run a website which
accepts crypto and which is probably one of the bigger use cases for at least nano but also we
have a lot of bitcoin cash and other cryptocurrency users essentially it's a way to access all of the
AI models and pay using crypto so it's better for privacy you can deposit small sums and just not

(07:56):
need to have a subscription so yeah that's what I'm working on nowadays I am currently in or close
to Singapore so I am Dutch but currently not in the Netherlands so for me it's actually 8 pm at
the moment but yeah that's my my short background. Okay that's great thank you so yeah we've got
someone who was an insider working in the the banking industry so trying to make changes from

(08:20):
within which I like very much the idea. So I'd love to know what got you so excited invested in
cryptocurrencies what kickstarted it all off? So what initially kickstarted it was very simple I
played this online game and we needed to transfer value sometimes internationally because we played
this in a team and sometimes I'd be paying people sometimes I would be getting paid and someone at

(08:45):
one point was like oh we can do this with bitcoin because paypal fees are high and back then it was
just this sort of funny money right like no one took it very seriously but it was fun to play
around with and send to each other so that was sort of my first contact with crypto with bitcoin
at the time and then I think I started taking it more seriously around 2016-2017 because it was

(09:09):
becoming clear that it could actually be very important for the world to have a store of value
and a medium of exchange that was decentralized instead of relying on inflationary currencies.
I've always been interested in economic systems it's why I worked at the central bank
and then working at the central bank you sort of see the other side of the story and that only got

(09:31):
me more interested in it but I would say initially I started using crypto. Just thinking about that
sorry could you go a little bit more into what was the other side of the story?
For those who are very strongly into fiat to call it to give it a name,

(09:52):
central bankers have a very strong opinion generally on how money should work and on why
inflation is important, why we need to have centralized money systems and why something
like crypto is such a bad idea. So it was very interesting for me because at the time I was
already very active in crypto and discussing on Twitter, on Reddit. So most of the arguments I

(10:13):
was having on Reddit and Twitter went way deeper than just like is deflation bad or is inflation
good? They just went way deeper into sort of consensus systems and all that kind of stuff and
then you see the other side of the equation which is the central bank who literally hadn't even
reached step one yet of maybe a decentralized fixed supply currency can be good. They were

(10:35):
very strongly against even that sort of first principle that we have in crypto. So yeah for
me it was very interesting to see the dichotomy between those two worlds. Yeah for sure.
I think you probably have more interesting insights than many in the crypto world. So

(10:56):
I mean this is an interesting discussion. I'd like to come back to this thinking about inflationary
and what benefits deflationary currencies have. Before we go on though I just really would love to
know the story. So you've come out now with your real name and we know you now as Milan
but many of us in the community have had conversations with you over Twitter, myself included

(11:18):
under the alias of Mira Hurley. So why is it anonymous? Why the name of Mira Hurley and
what's the story behind that? Yeah so it's very strongly linked to the central bank story because
if you work at the central bank and you want to discuss crypto there is really no upside at all
to using your own name because if I would argue against central banks then it would kind of be

(11:43):
used by people in crypto at some point. You know if I disagree too strongly with what Bitcoiners say
they would be like okay I'll reach out to the central bank and if I was arguing for a specific
crypto it would always just be like oh you're a central bank shill right you're like trying to
infiltrate the crypto system and pushing for this centralized currency which must be centralized

(12:04):
because you work at the central bank and you must agree with everything they do. So there was very
little to gain from using my own name so I decided to go anonymous and used this person does not
exist.com to generate an image or like a picture of a person and I thought she looked very Canadian
so I just used the redim name generator to get a Canadian name and that was Mira Hurley that's how

(12:28):
Mira was born. Yeah and I understand you know many people were very disappointed when they found out
that they couldn't marry Mira Hurley is that correct? Yeah I've had a few reactions which
were like that's such a shame you know she seemed like wife material and honestly a few
fair reactions which was like there are so few women in crypto I was hoping this was one of the

(12:51):
few who was actually a woman but unfortunately no so yeah definitely had a few people disappointed.
That's actually one of the things I said I was the host of BCH 2022 conference in Sinkits and
Navis and one of the things I said there was we know we've made it we know it's no longer early
when the room's full of women and that was why you know Mira Hurley was quite obviously

(13:16):
very knowledgeable in crypto quite technical so we made some bets there and some assumptions
that this is a man but you know I mean it's nice you know of course it's nice if there were more
women in crypto we do have some in BCH but predominantly it's men and now with the loss
of Mira Hurley we've lost another potential female in the crypto circles but we're glad to have you

(13:39):
Milana and it's great that you're now honest about who you are and you feel that you are able to
to come out and you know lose that anonymity that you had under Mira but that's an interesting
question though what made you ditch that anonymity and what made you go public?

(14:01):
Yeah so first of all I was just thinking we do have some women in crypto because at the Nano
Foundation George is one of the two directors and she's a woman definitely not a fake woman
I've seen her on enough video calls to be able to confirm but what made me ditch Mira was
essentially I didn't have strong reasons anymore to stay anonymous because I wasn't working at

(14:25):
the central bank anymore so that reason was kind of gone and also Nano GPT has been growing like
really fast fast enough that we had to start a company for it and starting a company means you
enter all of these public registries and then you're in there with your own name your full name
even address and stuff I think so my anonymity was gone anyway and everyone knew that Nano GPT

(14:49):
was linked to Mira but then if people look up Nano GPT and they see not Mira as a name but they see
Milan as a name then it's going to be quite obvious anyway so I figured okay I have some
upsides from no longer being anonymous I can do this kind of stuff I can join podcasts I can
join conferences all that kind of stuff and you know I'm going to be doxxed anyway by anyone who

(15:14):
like makes any sort of attempt so might as well yeah definitely I mean it has some advantages too
right I mean I was anonymous in the the community for for quite a while using different aliases
and that has these advantages as I'm sure you are aware it's there's certainly there's some

(15:35):
disadvantages coming out too but coming out allows for these sort of experiences talking on podcasts
showing your face which you know we're not doing right now in spaces but but but when you have got
your face out there and people can see my face for example speaking at conferences of course it helps
greatly in you know making that connection and people start thinking okay this is real

(15:57):
as opposed to just anonymous people online just a question about that so since coming out from
behind your pseudo anonymity what have been the biggest changes for you and overall was that
change was it positive or negative and what you know what you consider your mission with p2p cash

(16:18):
so I think the biggest change has probably been these podcasts and streams and spaces and whatever
you want to call it which I always wanted to do but I was never able to obviously so I've joined
quite a few now and I honestly I really like doing it so that's been a a big positive change I think
aside from that honestly the change has not been that big I don't feel like people treat me that

(16:41):
differently now so yeah in that sense it's it's mostly just being able to do more stuff
which you know I think is only a positive but I haven't noticed it in many other ways also because
some people who were like close to me in the crypto space did already know so for them it
wasn't any sort of surprise but yeah the the podcasts have been a big plus

(17:09):
yeah and I've seen you've been on a few one of the ones in closer to home was with Jeremy from the
Bitcoin Cash podcast and it was really interesting you know because I said we've had some interactions
over the past and to finally be able to see the the name the person behind this account it's

(17:29):
it's very interesting it's very very cool so I understand that you're against the main banking
proposition this is one of the things that I've heard you talk about that inflation is good and
deflation is bad so this is something you're against and I'd love to go into the thoughts here
with your experience you've been working in the banking industry and you have understanding of
money so from your perspective why do you think that inflation isn't a good thing and what makes

(17:54):
deflationary currencies such as nano and Bitcoin Cash a better alternative?
Yeah so I think inflation is kind of a distorting force so the idea behind inflation of course is
if you have inflation then you incentivize people to spend their money which is good for the economy
we keep money flowing all that kind of stuff but also in a way it's a very hidden sort of tax right

(18:20):
it's if you have two percent inflation that's two percent tax on everyone who's holding money
and those who are holding cash or holding like direct money instead of stocks or shares or
whatever are usually those who don't have all of all that much in assets like if you're really rich
you're not going to be holding it in cash you have stocks so you're not impacted by the inflation

(18:42):
it's mostly the poorer people who get impacted by it more I think so I think it's a very unfair tax
I like if you want to have a wealth tax I think that should be democratically decided and then
you can decide how you want to do it exactly but not this sort of broad ranging regressive sort of
tax that is undemocratic to be honest because central banks are not democratically chosen

(19:07):
so yeah I I don't think it's a good idea to have it I also think the issues with deflation or with
fixed supply are kind of overstated because so it's a funny story I actually told this at
breakfast this morning I used to teach sort of after school class economics when I was in high
school and I would have to explain to people like okay this shirt will be cheaper next year so then

(19:33):
you postpone your purchase right because it's cheaper in a year so then you get more value for
your money and they were just like no I would still get the shirt now because I want to have
the shirt and I feel like that's the case for a lot of stuff where it's not so much that people
are actually going to wait with their purchases because you still need food you still need to pay
for your rent you still need to pay for a lot of stuff it's not like it's an option not to pay

(19:56):
not to pay so I feel that argument is kind of overstated to be honest and oh sorry and I
honestly don't think it's such a big deal like it's already the case that we could wait with
a bunch of purchases and get stuff cheaper but you want to have the newest phone every time it comes
out you want to have I don't know a new tv instead of the one the one that was like one year old

(20:21):
so I think it's a massive overstatement that people have like that people need to be incentivized to
spend I think the reverse is kind of true I think as a merchant we prefer accepting crypto because
we prefer to hold crypto so we could accept fiat like dollars or euros but then we would want to
swap it into crypto because every day we hold euros or dollars we're getting the base so we

(20:46):
prefer to hold crypto and then if you pay us in fiat we have to convert it into crypto so it's a
lot more efficient for us to just like accept crypto directly and then you know if it's more
efficient to accept crypto directly for the merchant then why not also spend your crypto
or be incentivized to spend your crypto with a small discount or whatever like it makes no sense

(21:07):
to have something as a store of value swap it into fiat that's debasing the entire time to
pay someone who's then swapping it back it's far more efficient to just use the money that's also
a strong store of value on sort of both sides of the equation so yeah I'm rambling a bit no it's
great I just don't think inflation is necessary it's great and to be honest this is a topic that

(21:30):
interests me greatly so I studied economics and so I have a background in understanding about
monetary policy and why certain choices are made and you know thinking about the time limits of
this basis and the other people we've got on this is a conversation that I could I'm pretty sure I
could have quite a lot of enjoyment talking about with you for many hours you said that one of the

(21:51):
things I um a point that I really like on uh that I really like is that inflation is a regressive tax
and this is something that's because it's not considered a tax uh people really like don't
don't understand what that means but it is as regressive as a tax because it affects those
it affects those without assets without shares without things that are buoyed by regression by

(22:14):
inflation it affects them the most so the person that's living from wage to wage them
impacted the most by inflation and they'll never be able to afford a house and they'll be able to
afford to get capital to actually get out of that and the people that are most benefited by inflation
are those with huge amounts of capital because the capital price is buoyed by inflation you know that's
why the price of gold continues to go up um would it be going up if we had a deflationary currency

(22:39):
no um and and so it's it's a tax that really punishes those at the bottom uh the hardest
which you know whether you're left or right this seems like something we could be united against
it that this is a bad bad form of tax whether you're for taxes or not this is not a good form
of tax but the other point that you touched upon which I really like is you know thinking about
gdp so the idea of inflation is to increase expenditure increase gdp and the thing to counter

(23:04):
that is well the argument is we consume so much and therefore we damage the planet and with
inflationary currencies we consume more we buy that crap thing because our the value of our money
is going down and so rather than saving and buying what we really want we spend quicker and more
frivolous um and so as an understanding actually how gdp is calculated i'm quite of the mind that

(23:28):
if people were to spend less because of an inflationary uh sorry a deflationary currency
so they were to rather save to not buy that new phone every year but to save and spend on the
things that are the highest quality and the most value for them because if they don't buy that
shitty phone this year they can buy the best one next year then the gdp will go down right technically

(23:49):
the gdp must be going down but the wealth of the individual will go up because the idea that gdp
equals wealth is nonsense it's it's just an accounting game um so it's really really interesting
and i think on this particular point we're we're very aligned and it makes a lot of sense why you're
into deflationary currencies into cryptocurrencies such as nano or bitcoin cash and but just to keep

(24:14):
you know so maybe we could have that conversation and go into some more depth in a in a bit of a
wider talk milan because that is really interesting i'm sure many people on the on the listening will
find that interesting but moving on one of the services you created is nano gpt so can you tell
us a bit what this service offers and what benefits it has over using other ai implementations

(24:37):
uh yeah sure so nano gpt is essentially a place where we collect all of the ai models in one place
so really literally all of them so it's chat gpt clod grok perplexity the open source models
anyone you can think of and instead of having a subscription to one or multiple of those providers
we just let people use whatever they want and only pay for what they use there's no subscription

(25:03):
there's no sort of um monthly fees or anything it's just you do a prompt and you pay for the prompt
which is on average about one cent it depends very much how big the prompts are and what model you're
using but essentially we wanted to create a way that anyone could have access to the top models
without needing a subscriptions but also without giving up all of this private information because

(25:27):
usually for the top models you get a subscription which you get with a credit card which is linked
to your name you have to input all of this personal information it's honestly a privacy nightmare i
think because many people share their deepest secrets with all of these models it's like their
medical history or you know things they're uncertain about or you know anything really people

(25:48):
really talk a lot to these models i would prefer it if my prompts and everything i ask these ai's
is not directly linked to my name like it's a sort of honeypot for hackers that's just waiting to be
attacked i think and what we do is essentially we give you actual privacy so there's no need to
even create an account you can just visit our website deposit some bitcoin cash nano whatever

(26:14):
you want to use and start using these models and we don't care who you are we don't send any of
your personal information honestly also because we don't have any of your personal information
to these model providers so we try to give people as good privacy as is possible with these models
all of the conversations and the prompts are only stored on your own device we do not store anything

(26:37):
so yeah we think it's a great way for people to be able to access all these models even if you have
just 10 cents to spend you can just put some onto nano gpt get a few prompts to these top models
we know of people that literally have only spent five cents and that like messages saying it had
been very helpful for medical stuff or for reviewing a program or all kinds of stuff

(26:59):
so yeah it feels like we're doing some good we're sort of opening up access to these models to more
people but uh yeah that's an LGBT in a nutshell we also do image generation but uh that's a whole
other subject that's great so what i'm hearing is non-kyc and pay as you go which i'm sure will make
many people in the audience are very happy because kyc is a big topic that most people in the crypto

(27:20):
community are very unanimous about like it's awful and you should be able to interact with the
internet and do things in a way that is anonymous and not linked to your name thanks for that it's
great so what made you choose the coins that you did that you accept for nano gpt so i know one of
them you accept bitcoin cash which is great for bitcoin cash units so what made you choose that
coin or any of the others for nano gpt to support yeah so we obviously started with nano because i

(27:48):
honestly just think it's the best medium of exchange series i also think it's the best
store of value we use it as our store of value and it's just really easy for payments i have
been playing around with it before so i knew how to use it my co-founder was also big into nano so
that one makes a lot of sense i think and then when we were deciding to add a second coin

(28:09):
it was honestly more of a gut-based thing i would almost say than an actual analysis i interact with
bitcoin cash people quite a bit on twitter they're always super nice they're very genuine i think in
wanting to be able to use crypto as money rather than you know being into just a store of value or

(28:30):
gambling or whatever so it was more of a like this seems like a good group a good group or community
to try and integrate with so let's add bitcoin cash and see how it goes so we add a bitcoin cash
next i honestly think that's been a great idea because we had super helpful people to help us
with the implementation we used prompt cash but anytime we like ran into an issue or needed

(28:55):
testers there were like 10 people helping us so that was really great and the entire bitcoin cash
community has given tons of feedback like literally earlier today again there was someone
giving feedback where i'm like yep that's we really need to add this that's a good idea
so yeah we've been very happy to to have bitcoin cash on the platform and then after that we just

(29:16):
and then after that we just sort of looked at bitpay what is used most on there so i think next
up we added litecoin we also added banano in between because it's a nano fork it actually has
a pretty big community and then we just sort of went down the list so monero is is used a lot and
then we started adding bitcoin uh solana the eth eth l2s all that kind of stuff and yeah i think

(29:41):
by now we cover most of the sort of actually useful payment cryptos yeah yeah definitely
there's a quite a long list there and i think this is really good and speaks to what i understand
about you that you're not a maximalist you're just looking to get uh pdp cash out there and having
all these different coins being able to use your service um must be much better for you as a

(30:02):
business because then you're not penciling yourself into just one community you can tap into everything
which makes me interested i mean can you say is it possible to say which communities are using nano
gpt the most i'm guessing nano is in place one that would be the the logical assumption
is that the case and what then would be the the second largest used currency for using your tools

(30:25):
yeah so nano indeed is the largest which yeah obviously makes sense we're going to release
stats on which coins are on sort of the ranking of which coins are used most in two days because
then we have data for a full month for november many of these coins we only added in october or
start of november but so bitcoin cash was always the second biggest and i was actually looking at

(30:47):
it earlier today but it's sadly been overtaken by monero so right now it's nano then monero and i
believe it's still bitcoin cash after that one but i haven't done like a deep analysis on it this is
just volume based so it might be that there are more bitcoin cash payments but they're just smaller
amounts i'm going to look into it in two days to release this the statistics on it we think it

(31:12):
would be useful also for others who implement crypto payments to have a sort of second opinion
on bitpay because as some have said bitpay is maybe a little biased so we're hoping we can
release a list as well and show sort of which currencies are actually used and then you know
when other merchants start considering it they can just look at our list and be like okay

(31:34):
maybe don't implement dogecoin because it's actually not used so much sadly but maybe focus
on you know actual payment cryptos and it's true it's a discussion that's having earlier you can
see on dogecoin they have huge amounts of transactions on chain but just like with
liquidity of tokens or even cryptos you know these online transactions don't necessarily

(31:56):
mean that there's actually real usage of it it's very something that's very easy to manipulate to
get people to sort of fomo into that yeah it's really really interesting information insights
and you know i do hope i think that you will see a good amount of bitcoin cash usage because even
if you're a nano proponent and even in the end of the back end it gets swapped into nano from a you

(32:17):
know if you believe in bitcoin cash if you believe in the currency a coin is money then you're using
it for a service or a good and however that person uses that money is none of your concern
so if you are interested in using ai without kyc then it's a really good service to spend
some bitcoin cash on so a biggest question i'm guessing can i add one thing sorry sorry

(32:40):
i can i add one thing i'm looking at our dashboard really quick to to try and figure it out it turns
out it's bitcoin cash is being used more than it was it's just others have grown quicker i think
uh so it's not like the the the amount of bitcoin cash is decreasing it's just since we've added
other coins they're also being used a lot okay that's interesting um i need to start yeah yeah

(33:00):
so it's still a good amount of bitcoin cash usage it's just uh also a good amount of other coin
usage which is nice for us it's great for you and it'd be great information for the community to be
able to look at that just to see get an idea of which communities are spending their currencies
and their cryptos um yeah so um milan a question for our viewers likely be from the p2p cash coins

(33:23):
that are out there such as bitcoin cash and all the others what is it that made you choose nano
as your coin of choice you didn't already mention a few a few points there but maybe you could just
go into a bit more detail there why nano yeah so for me um i could make it a very long story or
very short i'll try and make it a bit shorter i think what you want in money is for it to be

(33:47):
quickly uh confirmed like quick to transfer and you want it to be cheap to transfer and you want
it to be scalable and i think we can all agree those are like the important aspects and then
bitcoin cash does very well on those but i honestly think nano does best because it's like literally
instant it's 400 milliseconds it's zero fees now and always and it scales very easily it's like it

(34:10):
has no inbuilt restrictions it's just the further the hardware scales uh the more transactions it
can do per second so as money honestly it's very hard to beat instant zero fees and scalable i think
and then for the store of value aspect i see some issues with bitcoin and with proof of work
and that i think mining tends to centralize over time i also have some issues with the security

(34:35):
budget in bitcoin i think that's slightly different in bitcoin cash but yeah i think
many crypto tend to centralize over time which is the opposite of what i want from my
decentralized currency whereas in nano all of the incentives are to decentralize so everyone who
holds nano has an incentive to help decentralize the network the chain so for me it would be like

(35:00):
a lot easier if i believed more strongly in say bitcoin cash or bitcoin or whatever because
obviously nano is a lot smaller right now but it's just really difficult for me to find something
that works as well as nano and that i can believe in as strongly for the long term as nano so yeah
just want to say i'm not a maxi like we accept many coins and i think many coins work really well

(35:23):
but for me nano just is difficult to beat yeah that's fair points so just you know just thinking
about the three key points you said so that it's instance this is also something if you've used
bitcoin cash anyone that's out there so i send money from one wallet to another that's also it
is instance you know it's literally when i click the send button it receives on the other side so
i think we're pretty comparable in that with the scaling as well this is a critical point and

(35:46):
and there was a difference between btc btc which of course has just hobbled its scaling it won't
scale and the other extreme which is bsv which is let's just you know create terror blocks and
whatever which of course leads to huge centralization and bch currently has got an
algorithm called abla the adaptive block limiting algorithm which actually scales with the technology

(36:08):
so as as people are using the blocks and filling them up within a certain rules the the block size
grows where nano does win of course is the fact that it's free it doesn't cost ace anything at
all so bitcoin cash is a fraction of a cent so i think you can send roughly about 10 transactions
currently for one cent which for me you know when i think of bank usage and what i have to pay for

(36:29):
my bank fees every month to have a bank card this is more than reasonable to be paying for security
but i'll give you that you know nano doesn't cost the user even a fraction of a cent for for
sending so when you know you've said just now you're not a maximalist and i think this is a
very interesting part of you you said this also on the bitcoin cash podcast and that nano is simply

(36:52):
the best coin in your mind with that in mind milan what would bitcoin cash have to change for you to
think that bch was the best p2p coin in the market yeah so the answer will probably be similar to
with jeremy then so i think in terms of using it as money you're right the differences are not

(37:14):
that big although i think the feeling of zero fee is just a lot better than any fee at all it's also
a lot easier to to develop with in a way but the differences are not that huge there i think for me
the differences are bigger on the store of value side just because i find it hard to convince myself
that mining does not centralize over time like there are economies of scale in mining especially

(37:38):
in asic mining never sure if i pronounce this correctly especially in asic mining there just
are economies of scale and then if you have economies of scale you have the big miners
getting ever bigger that does not reassure me that consensus stays decentralized and i'm not even
talking about mining pools it's just the actual miners underlying the protocol or underlying the

(38:01):
hash rate becoming ever bigger and more concentrated i find that a pretty bad long-term incentive
so that would be the primary thing that would need to change i think for me to want to switch
but then that is so inbuilt in how proof of work chains work and proof of stake to an extent
that i think that is really difficult to change also and i think nano is actually the only one

(38:24):
probably that has actually solved that with proper incentives for people to decentralize
and i think that makes it special more so than the transactions like transactions like let's be
honest it's really fun to send something to someone have them get it instantly and be like
zero fees paid but it's more of a party trick in a sense because you know you can do that with bank

(38:45):
transactions nowadays as well in most countries anyway or in developed countries i guess
that is not sort of the competitive advantage in the long run i think i think the long-run advantage
is the store of value decentralization aspect yeah and i would definitely agree with the
decentralization point if something is not if the cryptocurrency isn't decentralized or if it

(39:08):
at any point will centralize to the point that it's broken or it's truly centralized then
then it's game over then we've just replaced the banking system with banking system you know 2.0
you say you're not a max minis and i and i believe that and you know as i understand you would
happily use another coin if it was proved in your mind to be better than nano i hear your arguments

(39:31):
and to be honest i i would quite love to spend uh you know some time delving into that just you
know just an episode where we can look into those the the pros and cons of proof and stake and
uh proof of work because i think we would have a really fruitful conversation i have a different
opinion than you um but you know so those arguments are good but if but it sounds like

(39:53):
you know you are someone that is willing to listen to alternative takes as you have been
doing over the last few years and that's why you've become stronger proponent of of nano
um but of course the only way you can shift your perspective anywhere else is by listening to
to such takes and we've got the ultimate p2p cash conference of the year in my mind uh next may

(40:14):
uh bliss 2025 so it's in slovenia um is there any chance that we would see you at such a conference
where you get to meet the bitcoin cash developers and lots of the people actually working on the
protocol people working on products is there any chance of seeing uh yourself at such a conference
yeah so i think was it you or someone else who mentioned it to me

(40:34):
it'd be me i'm shilling out because i
oh nice okay so i already have it in my agenda for may 13 to 15 just to see if i can uh like if i
can make it but if i remember correctly i have something else at the time as well but i cannot
find it in my agenda so you're waiting for the good excuse no no my my girlfriend is way more

(40:57):
structured than i am so i have to ask her what's actually going on uh but no slovenia is pretty
close to me so uh yeah honestly sounds fun i like i want to go to more conferences i don't know what
bch bliss is like but uh yeah i would definitely go to conferences of other coins than nano so
there's definitely a chance you see me there'd be fantastic if you were there you'd be more than
welcome and uh you know because the the principles that you have are very much in line with what i

(41:23):
understand the bitcoin cash community stands for and i was there at bch bliss uh this year at the
start this year um and it was a it was a truly wonderful experience there's lots of great people
that really believe in the mission of ptp cash for the world who are doing their best to sort of push
that that frontier so maylan if you are able to come um you are you are very welcome and you'll
be very warmly received um and and you know i i would love as i said to have a there's so many

(41:49):
stuff there's so much stuff that you mentioned that i'd love to go into in more detail but
unfortunately we just don't have the the time today so i'm just going to say it from from my
perspective so from freenish and friends we have done quite some research into proof of work versus
proof of stake nano being proof of stake bitcoin cash being proof of work and we've come to the
strong conclusion that while both have their trade-offs that proof of work offers the best

(42:10):
security and protection for some money especially against centralization which is um a fear you know
milan seeing it from a different perspective which you know is also valid but in the worst case where
there was a 51 centralization of miners it's always possible to add more mining rigs into the
ecosystem to decentralize and allow the network to function as intended so that no payments can be

(42:32):
blocked but once someone has 51 of a proof of stake coin such as when two or three large holders come
together to form a cartel they control the system for as long as they want and this is just like our
current banking system the one that cryptocurrency was designed to replace with a better more
efficient decentralized and fairer system and unlike proof of work when proof of stake is hijacked

(42:57):
the fear is the way that i see it is that forking off brings the problems with you
as those entities will still own their 51 percent of the voting supply on the new chain
and this contrasts greatly with proof of work where forking while still incredibly painful
as bitcoin cash can contest to it allows for a reset of any co-opting of the network and then

(43:19):
followed by regrowth so our position is decentralization and i'm pretty sure Mila
and you would agree with this maybe just not the the the way to get there but decentralization
is the key underlining point of cryptocurrency where we will differ is proof of stake for me and
for our perspective is simply redoing the current banking system that bitcoin was designed to mostly

(43:42):
make redundant to the benefit of almost every person on the planet and the the second point
which is important is the needs of people in 2024 are much more than for simply dumb money
which you know we have requirements for direct debits for standing orders for subscriptions
for loans digitizing assets or even stabilizing value which is possible on any hedge where you

(44:03):
can lock your bch value to things such as gold silver or even btc but that all said the magic
of a free market of ideas is there are lots of different implementations and variations of things
such as digital p2p cash and different ways of thinking and trying out things that in the
competition that comes from that invariably leads to the best possible outcome for the user and for

(44:27):
the world so if you find nano interesting check it out give me a line of follow and for all you bch
lovers out there you're all invited to please go and use some of your bch on nano gpt for non-kyc
ai services at nano-gpt.com i'll make sure that's also in the comments thank you so much me and

(44:49):
for joining today we may be on different teams but i feel very much that we are aligned on the
destination and we're looking forward to getting to that destination together under the spirit of
cooperation and as i said i would love to have a more in-depth and detailed conversation with you
on all of the points we've we've discussed and so much more because i can imagine it being very
enlightening even if in the end we don't quite agree on the methods of getting there nice yeah

(45:15):
i would love to do that as well and if anyone wants to try nano gpt or nano itself just send me a
message i'll gladly send you some nano otherwise to try with if you don't have any bitcoin cash to
put into our website but uh yeah thanks for having me it was fun and i'd love to do the the long term
or long form discussion sometimes okay let's let's stay in contact and try and arrange that i think

(45:36):
it'd be i think it'd be good if you know of any others to to join in because what this is what i
love with the different communities is we may be batting for different teams but um but i've also
experienced it from nano is that it's it's a bit different the people there you can have most of
them you can have reasonable conversations with even if there are differences in in the opinion
the opinions i think have a lot of validity and they're based on on logic from that person's

(45:59):
perspective so it's really great to have you on here and it's uh it's an it's an honor to have you
on here and i i'm really looking forward to having that longer forum for deeper conversation
cloud are you able to speak now hello sir can you hear me hey how are you doing i can hear you loud
and clear great great i'm doing well how are you guys doing very very good i'm so glad that it's

(46:26):
working now um so sorry is it claude or cloud odd claude okay good so yeah claude welcome to
finish from friends um i'm sure many people listening and in the bch community have seen
your posts from base poker there's been quite a few adverts over the last few weeks um but maybe

(46:46):
you could just give a little introduction about you your company and what base poker has to offer
uh yeah uh great so personally i've been i've been involved with uh crypto and blockchain
for a while it's similar to uh milan i i didn't work at the central bank but i used to work for

(47:09):
as a consultant for central bank in uh singapore and south korea for a cbdc project actually
but it was before i got into the i got into crypto before and then i i sort of the bear market came
and i sort of kind of lost the trust in it then i got into the permission chain which is all about

(47:31):
cbdc you know depository receipts and all this institutional sort of use cases uh so i worked at
so i worked at a company called r3 uh and then i realized that this this thing doesn't work in a
permissioned base manner uh it was all sort of the uh just wordplay um so i i left the company and

(47:58):
i'm uh i got back to the sort of the real crypto which is permission permissionless uh payment side
and uh i founded a company and built a online casino using crypto and then we sold it to a uk
company uh after that we were sort of discussing what to do next and i started playing poker

(48:18):
after the acquisition and then i fell in love with it and then i i tried to find uh uh the right
product to play using crypto and i i couldn't really find the right one at the time so we
we decided to build it uh last year so it's been almost a year we we've been building uh and uh yeah

(48:40):
it is fantastic okay that's quite a journey there's a lot more to unpack i look at the time and think
okay i would like to delve in much deeper into that backstory uh such as with the work with the
cbdc but um just you said we um so the hints to the fact that it's not just you then behind base
poker so my question would be how many people are behind base poker uh we currently have about

(49:08):
10 people and including the out sort of outsourcing developers we have about 12
uh yeah it requires a lot of work poker is very complex we didn't even know before we get into it
and then we realized that this is this is no this is no joke uh but yeah we're barely barely making

(49:29):
it and uh yeah about 10 people okay that that is quite a uh quite a business and just thinking
about at the moment when going on to base poker when you try and when bch is used as a default
currency and what made you choose bch from everything that's out there uh bch is the first

(49:53):
sort of non-fiat currency we we have usdt uh well because i have many friends in bch community
uh i i've been part of the bch community back in the days actually um i used to host meetups
around asia i invited roger veer and and some some other guys too uh i'm a big big believer

(50:16):
proponent of big blocks and bch obviously you know uh so follows that trajectory uh yeah and then
and then i remember playing i wasn't a poker player back then i'm still terrible but i i played one
one time at at a place called blockchain.poker uh but by the time we started building it was

(50:40):
it was shut down so i remember uh i was looking at i was doing some research and then bch community
were very missing missing that product they really they very enjoy that product but it's gone so i
just thought that all bch uh communities probably have the similar product experience before so it's

(51:02):
it's very easier to to get in and obviously uh zero confirmation micro payment these are very
very helpful so uh we actually launched the usdt version first and then bch came later but if you
go to our website there are more players more deposits from bch than actual usdt so we kind of

(51:23):
switch the default to bch uh and then usdt is the second currency oh that is great great to hear so
that means your bch is the default not out of philosophical reasons but because it's the most
used currency on your website yes because when you look at the lobby when you go to the lobby you

(51:44):
have to you have to know how many people are playing and if you have to click bch filter to
see how many people play that's that's one step uh more but when usdt player usdt player when
there's no usdt player but when there's like 10 bch players we want to show uh at the first front

(52:05):
page oh there you know people are playing so we had to we had to basically make bch's default
yeah okay that's um and so how is the growth going with the site how much usage are you seeing is it
where you the level that you're expecting uh it's definitely growing we i think we're adding about

(52:28):
five to ten users daily uh but poker is tricky thing a lot of people play poker but they're
a lot of people are not poker players so most of them just deposit and play a little bit and then
withdraw but real poker players uh like people who really enjoy playing poker every day they just come

(52:49):
in constantly deposit uh they don't really withdraw money uh they keep playing so we have we have about
120 bch players right now uh so yeah i think deposit amount is going up players number going up
we just i think we didn't tap into the entire entire bch uh community yet but we're trying our

(53:16):
best to to do so yeah okay well come up with some extra information um about this and about how uh
some sort of event we're planning to organize to help with this just as a bit of info so yeah you
say you're not a great poker player then hey we need to play together right and for some high stakes
high stakes i used to play poker semi-professionally um so i actually used to um i used to play uh a lot

(53:40):
i was i actually have a really sad story it was also where i you know to as a great reminder that
as much skill is in poker there's also a tremendous amount of luck so i actually did a game with um a
thousand players it's 999 players it was a low stakes buy-in i come at like 20 bucks or something
but the winner the winner got to go on i can't remember which poker tournament it was this is

(54:01):
back in 2008 roughly um but you would get on the on a super yacht where there'd be like the main
like world series poker tournament newbie entered in there and i think the cost of getting on that
was about 50 000 or something it was some stupid amount and the prize pot of winning that would be
like you know god knows how many million and i beat 997 of the players and it was just me and

(54:25):
the final player and i had all the chips um and they were forced to go all in this is no lie i
can't remember the exact amount i think it was 17 but it was somewhere between 13 and 17 like around
that times they were forced to go all in because they couldn't cover the big blind and they won
every time and then they went on to win and that was that was the point where i was like i'm just

(54:47):
going to keep this for fun now this is it's a focus a wicked game it's wicked fun i love it and there
is enough skill there to make it interesting but there's enough luck there to uh to make sure that
even the newbs can have some fun there and and sometimes completely obliterate even pro players
so um yeah that was my little my little story

(55:07):
yeah it's poker yeah so yeah currently what are the offers that you're the base poker is
offering to entice people to your site do you still have sorry can can you be any offers or
you know i saw that you were doing an offer that you were giving uh for new new signups there was
a a small bonus for signing up or is this something you're still offering uh yeah so anybody who

(55:34):
who uh well anybody can dm me dm to the base poker twitter uh anytime i'll give you some bch
small amount just to try for for fun about 0.005 bch about two three dollars uh yeah so
yeah that's what we're doing but but we're not doing a lot of sort of heavy uh cost intensive

(55:57):
marketing yet because we don't have the multi-table tournaments yet so once the multi-table
tournament comes out we'll be doing a lot of uh free roll you know high gtd uh games going and
that's how that's how usually the most poker sites acquire users it's very hard for a poker site to

(56:18):
to sustain with just cash gain so uh yeah tournament mtt is very very important so we're
building it i think hopefully it's going to come out at end of this year or early next year
yeah that's exciting it also gives people a chance to enter a game with very low um

(56:38):
upfront fee but with a chance of winning an attractive pot if they're lucky which is it um
so yeah for those of you that are listening give a heart or a thumbs up to this particular point
who in the audience would like to see a live streamed bch all-stars poker match on base poker

(56:59):
we got any hearts any likes for this we've got one one hand up well okay
maybe we won't do that well because we're organizing this we've actually got some
already uh some bch developers content creators and renowned bch builders that are already really
game for this to live stream this um with uh with jeremy from the bitcoin cash podcast and to do this

(57:24):
as a sort of run-up to christmas treat which i think you know can be a lot of fun for the community
it's just all bch's having some fun drinking some whiskey and uh alex i'm sure is going to be there
too and uh and playing some poker but it's also a great opportunity to uh advertise yourself a bit
based poker and draw some people onto your site um claude just as a quick question because i have

(57:49):
to move on and get cheapy on here to talk about his fundraiser so we've got the hottest p2p cash
conference in may 2025 with bch bliss will we be seeing you or anyone from your 10 stroke 12 man
team uh base poker attending uh hopefully i i would like to be uh there uh if i'm near that that

(58:14):
wherever the conference is i'll probably attend i'll be around i i move around a lot so i you know
i i go to vietnam i live there for a month i go to bali for two months and stuff like that so if i'm
if i'm close there i'll probably fly fly over there and attend it okay we we hope to see you there
and anyone else that's listening make sure to join it's it's a real if anyone that loves bitcoin cash

(58:38):
it's just a great experience thanks so much claude for joining on today's episode just as a reminder
to our listeners so poker is a game that involves as much chance as does skill hopefully listen to
my story as a sort of a reminder of that so if you're interested in the game and you're interested
in my story as a sort of a reminder of that so finish and friend view is the online poker should

(58:58):
be seen as adult entertainment so go and spend some bch and you can have an enjoyable evening
playing cards and who knows you might even get your bch back at the end of the night so check
out base poker.com i've put links in the comments for all of your online poker needs and base pokers
offering means adding yet another bch accepting site and service to the ever growing network and

(59:23):
as a reminder the power and utility of money is exponentially linked to the size of this network
so in this regard we are always happy to see new businesses using and accepting bch so thank you
so much claude it was great having you on and on the topic of money now is the time to welcome
our next guest we have got cheapy the founder of the bitcoin cash foundation writer of the bch

(59:50):
weekly news moderator moderator of most well-known bch telegram groups and world famous bch vly
mascot hi gb great to have you on feedish and friends as an official speaker for the very first
time uh hi uh can you hear me i can hear you loud and clear yeah am i coming in stereo so usually
on on twitter spaces uh i'm only in the left channel for some reason am i in stereo this time

(01:00:14):
it's funny because you are on stereo um but when i did the mix last time you were on stereo but
um then it was just in one ear once i'd actually published it so i i i'm guessing that right now
it's in mono and that's why we don't hear yeah so i yeah well we'll find out when it's published on
youtube and on the podcast if so uh apologies for uh people who have uh no hearing in the right side

(01:00:41):
uh or or difficulty so uh i my right ear is not as good as my left ear so uh i i sympathize with you
and i'll try to correct it in the future when i joined i was on my phone with my headset but i
couldn't uh become a speaker for some reason uh so i had to switch to the pc which is where this

(01:01:02):
stereo problem comes in but uh thanks for having me on twitter the audities of twitter it's it's
uh lovely to uh talk to you again and i'm uh happy to answer any questions you may have
i may have a few so cheapy you're pretty well known in the bch community nevertheless i imagine
there will be some people out there who don't know you on and i think there's probably a lot

(01:01:25):
of people that don't know the full breadth of all the work you're doing so could you just let the
audience know a little bit about who you are and all the activities you're involved in um yeah how
much time do you have um for for a really good in-depth breakdown um i wrote uh my my bitcoin

(01:01:46):
biography whatever you want to call it it's on read.cash um i've also been on uh the bitcoin
cash podcast with jeremy there's a multiple episodes of me talking about my history there
uh casual bch podcast there's a whole episode of me talking there too but yeah very briefly uh i've
i've been in the space since 2011 uh i got my my very first sats from uh gavin's uh faucet

(01:02:14):
um and you know was was was uh not heavily involved until the the split uh when i really felt that uh
things uh you know needed help uh it wasn't i i didn't trust the uh the the miners uh uh and the
core developers to to make uh decisions anymore um and uh so when the fork happened uh i i was

(01:02:39):
you know right on board and even before the fork i i ran uh a node uh uh what's it called now
called now uh that gavin and dagger worked on uh jump in if anybody knows i forget what it's called
now bitcoin xd or bitcoin classic xt xt thank you very much i was thinking bitcoin x but i was like

(01:03:03):
no that's not right uh yes xt um and uh i went to i live in japan and i the very first bitcoin cash
conference ever was in tokyo i'd never been to any kind of crypto event or meetup or anything
like that before um and i i thought well i really need to go and and meet some of these people and

(01:03:25):
and uh you know get get get an idea about what's going on um in the space because
rightfully so i felt like bitcoin the project that satoshi had developed was being hijacked
and redirected to something which isn't what i support and what i want for the world um and
that was the first you know meeting of of like-minded uh people uh that i that uh i knew

(01:03:52):
existed and and of course it was a life-changing experience uh and uh ended up starting the uh
osaka bitcoin cash meetup um and uh from from there it has grown over time uh and started doing more
and more things i did uh organized uh when devcon was was here in osaka i organized uh co-organized

(01:04:15):
i should say the uh you know bitcoin cash devcon after party uh started doing moderation on on
telegram because there wasn't really anybody uh in my time zone moderating um started working
with satoshi's angels um they i started off as just english news editor and then they asked me
if i would write the english news um and then of course unfortunately uh they decided to discontinue

(01:04:42):
news activities and i thought it was important enough to carry on uh and so for more than a year
now i forget exactly how long it's been i've just been doing it independently uh and uh you know
that sort of went hand in hand oh i guess i you know i should probably talk about the foundation
itself not just my activities but uh uh yeah the foundation uh you know i wrote about that on

(01:05:07):
read.cash as well check it out uh really just started as because bitcoin cash has nothing official
and yet for the world everyone wants some kind of official contact point or or some official word to
to uh you know give give the give the information from the source right but that's in a decentralized

(01:05:32):
system like bitcoin cash that's not how it works um but just the the power of an email address
you know cheapy at at uh actually cheap lightning at bitcoin cash foundation dot org uh has a lot of
a lot of power uh behind it um and so if if you know uh cheap lightning at yahoo.com or whatever

(01:05:56):
emails you and says hey uh we're updating our node you guys should update it yeah i've blocked that
address right right nobody will pay attention to it because who are you and what are you doing
uh but bitcoin cash foundation dot org has has power behind it uh and and it's a it's a contact
and the thing about about a decentralized system um not not just mining but as far as development

(01:06:23):
etc your proof of work as as a person or an organization etc uh is your reputation and if
you do good work and people trust you then they will endorse you and they will support your work
if you don't do good work well then you will quickly fade away into obscurity um and so i

(01:06:45):
i never pretend to be you know the official source of of bitcoin cash anything um i am the unofficial
official uh sanitary engineer of the bitcoin cash foundation um well but we're doing the work that
no one else wants to but it's important yes um and and so you know for example uh when bitcoin cash

(01:07:09):
node upgraded last year i sent out literally hundreds of messages and emails to to stakeholders
many of the people in the audience here may have gotten contact me uh contact from me about it as
well uh just to make sure that everyone's on the same same page or at least is notified about what's
going on and then again when there was a bug fix release a few months later i you know i replicated

(01:07:33):
the whole process over and over again and and hounded organizations as well to get a response
from them because you know it is a bug fix right if you guys don't update your node you may have
some serious problems uh and uh yeah just you know kept hounding them until i finally got a response

(01:07:54):
uh and uh you know it's just another one of those things that that there is no official body to to
take care of uh i of course publish the news there's no official media organization or media wing or
marketing wing or or anything like that so somebody's got to write the news i write the news
other people write the news as well uh there is no official news so uh please subscribe to whatever

(01:08:20):
we really appreciate the news you've got so if anyone's unaware of where to get that news i've
put links under the spaces so you can get that it's also it's in a written format it's in video
format so in any format uh you know that you like you can easily consume um so it's really appreciated
yeah i think it's almost uh i don't want to i don't want to say the wrong number but it's

(01:08:44):
it's probably around 15 different platforms where where i publish the news every single week
um i write it edit uh film it uh edit it subtitle it you know everything uh all by myself there's
there's uh no assistance involved um and then of course uh you know there's also things like uh

(01:09:04):
i'm updating uh websites all across the space where they have bitcoin cash information presented
on on their website if it's the wrong logo you know sometimes they they make their own bespoke
handmade thing which nobody can recognize i i fire off a message and like hey guys
here are some logos you could use if you want and uh part of that is also managing the coin market

(01:09:29):
cap bitcoin cash page anybody can can submit uh information to it like it's not like i have
exclusive control over it or anything um coin market cap has has a series of forms that you
can use to submit information to you um there's nothing stopping anyone from doing it however

(01:09:51):
uh the the team at coin market cap probably won't take you seriously if you're bob at yahoo.com
uh they do however know me and they know that the the submissions that i've i've entered uh have
have been reliable and therefore they've accepted them um and absolutely sorry no go ahead and it's

(01:10:13):
just it's really you know all the work that you're going into there and all the the stuff you're
doing it's like some of it's or is you know people can see such as the news maybe they weren't aware
of all the different formats it's in but all of this work that's in the back end this is stuff that
almost no one sees actually um but it's really important and this is what you know is is updating
you know incorrect information on websites the bad logos maybe the bad addresses recommending the

(01:10:38):
the cash address for example just prevents bch being sent to the wrong chain all of this work is
really important um but you know not very glamorous no one no one gets to see it you
don't get to see uh you know because no one's seeing it then you don't get a pat on the back
to say hey a great job which we'll come to in a second um but just you know that just what you've

(01:11:03):
done i've stopped you but there's so much here and you're dedicating you know and i know you
personally you know for anyone that's listening you know i would consider cheaply a friend and
i i'm aware of his activities uh not all of them um but a lot of them and i'm always impressed
by how dedicated he is to the mission of bitcoin cash and becoming this decentralized currency for

(01:11:23):
the world in like a sentence or two why are you so dedicated what drives you in helping bitcoin cash
and spending so much of your time and energy on this community and project um yeah i think uh
in in a single sentence to change the world uh it may seem uh i don't know uh what's what's the

(01:11:46):
word i'm awesome amazing the correct way changing the world yes thank you uh it may seem uh uh
uh pithy pithy i don't know something something like that like uh uh you know starry eye starry
eye dreaming or whatever um you know as when i was young uh i i was quite apathetic because i i very

(01:12:09):
quickly realized that you know voting isn't really going to matter uh my one vote isn't going to
change much if i if i go you know at best if i go to like a town hall meeting i could express my
dissatisfaction with the the angle of the stop sign in the corner or whatever uh and that's not
really going to do much to affect change in a in a meaningful way in the in the world you know

(01:12:31):
protesting against uh uh you know uh occupy wall street or whatever um certainly could have an
effect but again i don't think it's it's going to uh really move the needle nearly as much as
as trying to figure out what what the actual problem behind all of the problems are um and

(01:12:53):
and when i read about bitcoin i very quickly and clearly saw ah this is a way to actually affect
meaningful change in the world because money is what makes everything go around uh and you know
talking before you talked about decentralization uh you know the the central banks of various

(01:13:15):
countries have a complete monopoly they're they're completely in control um and there's
nothing you can do to to wrestle uh that control away from them you can't uh you know issue a new
a new currency for for your nation as a as a single individual but the bitcoin movement is is
revolutionizing uh the market and and finance and and just straight up cash for the entire planet

(01:13:41):
um and and you know just looking at something as simple as as mail right so uh i'm i'm i was i was
born pre-internet and so i wrote letters and postcards and all those other things and then
email came out and i don't remember the last time i physically wrote a letter right uh and

(01:14:02):
as as we evolve as a society it's really obvious that things are going to get more efficient
they're going to get more decentralized and the world's going to get a lot smaller a lot quickly
uh very quickly so obviously money is going to be part of that uh at some point in the future
uh whether you like it or not assuming the human race survives and if you assuming that money is

(01:14:25):
still a thing that we care about there will be a global currency um and do you want that to be a
global concern currency that's uh created and controlled by a handful of people whose whose
motivations you don't understand uh and have no say in or do you want to be part of the revolution

(01:14:48):
that creates new money for the world and so i know you asked for one sentence but it is changing the
world it's changing the market it's freeing the market it's freeing the world that's it
that was a very long sentence but every single word of it was beautiful so thank you um yeah very
aligned so all right let's talk about your your fun me so you've been doing all of this work and
much more um over the last you know several years and i know you've been especially active

(01:15:13):
over the last 12 months um and as i understand this work has been voluntary so you've you've
put your donation qr code uh in your posts um but overall you know what you what you receive doesn't
even cover the costs what you've actually put out of your own pocket to be able to create all of
this content videos and the work that you're doing um which is why you know as i understand

(01:15:38):
you've you've created a fund me so for those that don't know fund uh fund me dot cash this is a place
where you can set up your particular project um that you want to achieve or whatever you know
you want to raise some money for some particular thing that you want to do or have done and then
people get to voluntary uh voluntarily donate to this it reaches its target and then that money

(01:15:59):
is then free to that person's wallet and cheapie has created such a fun me um so yeah if you could
just discuss a little bit about this like what is your fun me designed for and uh what's the
current status of it and when when's the end date when when do we have to get this over the line by
um so um yeah it's currently about 70 i haven't checked since uh this this space started um it

(01:16:27):
went over 50 in the first 24 hours which was shocking to me touching uh uh i i feel absolutely
appreciated and validated and and all of those things and i had to be you know i've been i've
been kicking around the idea of of fundraising for quite a long time and i to be quite honest i was

(01:16:50):
really fearful that that uh you know it would get like a handful of satoshis and be like thanks
um and and that hasn't been the case at all so i feel uh really good that we've we've you know
rocked uh this hard so quickly uh it ends i believe christmas day uh or maybe the day after

(01:17:12):
christmas i'm not sure um but uh there's 25 days left um so quite a bit of time but obviously uh
feel free to give me your money as soon as you want give me your money this is the sales pitch
of the year extraordinary give me your money so yeah the the fundraiser is at 71.43 percent

(01:17:38):
completes there's a total of 85.7 bch out of a target of 120 so cheap you know i guess many
people in here would be interested um how many fundraisers have you already done for for bitcoin
cash uh i well uh two or three three technically three uh so i i did a flip starter many years ago

(01:18:01):
for a project that i was trying to get off the ground called build.cash uh it failed miserably
um and uh i guess at that time i was relatively unknown and so people rightfully thought well why
would i contribute to this uh so that's fair enough um and then when fund me launched i did a very

(01:18:22):
small test campaign uh that i just called for cat food i think it was about five dollars
uh just just to try out the platform see how it worked and see if if people would contribute
um it also failed um uh which you know doesn't particularly matter you couldn't even get five
bucks yeah well i you know the the expiry time at at the time was uh only in blocks um and i you know

(01:18:49):
didn't calculate in my brain how many blocks x number of days is um and so it was very short
i think it was less than a week the the campaign and of course at the time nobody knew what fund me
was and of course also many people didn't have uh cash token enabled wallets or or or wallet connect
enabled wallets as well so you know the fact that it failed doesn't matter because it wasn't a serious

(01:19:12):
thing either but then uh not long after that i i started another fund me campaign just to pay for
the pro the pro captcha bot for the bitcoin cash channel which is the main chat on telegram there
was a big uh spam and bot problem and of course because the group is over 3 000 people free tools

(01:19:34):
uh don't really work anymore so i just fundraised i think it was about a hundred dollars uh just to
pay for the bot and of course once again uh just to give people an opportunity to try out fund me
to try out cash and eyes paytaka zap it uh any of any of the wallets that you could use to contribute
um and i specifically asked whales not to contribute more than a certain low amount of funds

(01:20:00):
because i wanted as many people to have an opportunity to actually try it and see how it works so
uh so yeah that's that's four flip starters so two were failures um even two were failures one was
for um a genuine like is it you know something you actually it was an expense you were just one that
organized this and paid for this to benefit the telegram group so this isn't something that paid

(01:20:24):
for any of your time as i understand it was just just an expense um which means that this is actually
the first flip starter though the first fund me the first razor where it's actually about your time
and up until now all of the time that you've been you've been doing um has been voluntary work
more or less yes yes uh completely um well i mean many people have have suggested you know

(01:20:50):
monetizing what i do in in various ways um um and i i explored it a little bit uh you know trying to
sell uh what what what are what are the realistic numbers about you know selling merchandise t-shirt
t-shirts etc uh what about creating a moderator group uh would anybody be willing to pay to have

(01:21:14):
like a what i call the mod squad a group of people to to moderate your groups uh and when you look at
the wider crypto community that is a huge thing that that people do um you know you look at token
projects on ethereum or solana or whatever there's entire crews of people who who are paid huge

(01:21:35):
amounts of money to uh you know do moderation work etc but unfortunately bitcoin cash is still uh
uh too small to to warrant the amount of cost uh that that uh it would take um and of course in
order to make it a business that uh is viable uh would would just the numbers just don't work out

(01:22:00):
so uh yeah i i was hoping not to have to do a fundraiser i was hoping to to do some kind of
monetization uh but then i also looked into uh the the legal aspects of it uh you know obviously if
i'm going to be doing like a business it has to be registered here in japan and the cost and all

(01:22:22):
that of of it also just isn't worth it you know uh you know just you have to have a board of directors
and all of these things right it's just it becomes a whole a whole mountain of of issues that uh it
just isn't viable um so as much as i do you know want bitcoin cash to succeed i'm dedicated to it

(01:22:43):
at the same time i i do need to eat i do need to to pay for electricity and all those other things
and so uh yeah it's it's really you know just a point of of uh is is this work something that
people think is valuable uh does the weekly news uh help bring eyes to your project do you value

(01:23:07):
that if you do value that how much do you value that uh and you know donate uh a amount that you
think uh is is uh worthy of of that effort um if you think that uh my work helps bitcoin cash in
general and therefore helps the price go up because more people get exposed to bitcoin cash more

(01:23:32):
people buy bitcoin cash more people use your platform your product whatever it is maybe maybe
you can uh you know pass a little over and say thank you you know a little tip um but again it's
all it's all voluntary uh i'm happy to help in in any way i can um and uh you know there's there's

(01:23:56):
no there's no price attached to to my help uh and so like you know and you know milan can can
confirm when he started exploring accepting bitcoin cash for nano gpt he contacted me
we we talked back and forth i helped him you know find the information that he needed
and that's just one of many many examples uh of things that i do all day every day talking to

(01:24:22):
people trying to coordinate things some way if possible uh last night i was up till uh 5 a.m
not only working on the news but also sending information to all the the major uh defy projects
on bitcoin cash about how they can uh quickly and easily uh get their their project uh reflected on

(01:24:47):
defy llama and hopefully that will then be reflected that bitcoin cash's tvl is higher
you know this is just a off the top of my head uh you know stuff that that uh that i do that
hopefully adds value and uh you know i'm it definitely adds value uh i'm sure many of the

(01:25:12):
people who know you know what you're doing uh have seen any of you know just a fraction of what it is
that you often know that it absolutely is of value um and any every single stakeholder of bitcoin
cash as you see for milan so milan is not a uh bitcoin cash supporter um nevertheless he's a
stakeholder his business accepts bitcoin cash and gets the benefit from the activities that you've

(01:25:35):
done which of course you know every service that accepts bitcoin cash uh is a benefit to the entire
ecosystem and every single builder in it so everything you're doing tp it has value and
this is what i can say you know from this is why bitcoin cash for me is such an exciting community
to be part of because there are so many people volunteering their time you know to the project

(01:25:55):
because of everything that it stands for and and cheapy is one of the ones that i think of the most
when i think of you know the amount of work and value that's being done voluntarily many come for
the gains but they stay for the mission um so for everyone that's listening cheapy's fund can be
found at fun me.cash forward slash campaign forward slash 17 i'll link to that in the comments

(01:26:20):
finnish and friends fully support and endorse this fun me and we have witnessed all of the time or
at least a good sum for the time that an effort that fellow friend um cheapy has put into the
bitcoin cash mission and doing much important work that no one else is willing to do under the bch
foundation cheapy has invested huge amounts of time and his own capital even to make this all happen

(01:26:43):
and it's as said to the benefit of all bitcoin cash stakeholders coming at a significant cost
himself not just in time but also financially this flipstarter covers those costs and allows
this important work to continue in the volume that it has been in the past so it's an important
point that i know that cheapy is keen to make is he's part of this community if this flipstarter

(01:27:06):
isn't reached he's still there and he still loves bitcoin cash and he will do what he can
to make sure and ensure its success but of course everyone has to eat everyone has to pay for cat
food if you have cats and so um so the his time will have to be spent on other things to be able
to uh earn money and pay for those you know life-sustaining activities so therefore finnish

(01:27:28):
and friends have contributed towards the fun me and we encourage every listener who loves p2p cash
and especially those who want to see bitcoin cash succeed to donate towards the cause are at the
very minimum and this is all we're asking for to just to go and check out cheapy's fun me links in
the comment as said and to give it some consideration thank you cheapy for joining today i wish you all

(01:27:51):
the luck um with raising the remaining 29 of your campaign we are confident it will be successful
to the benefit of bch and its mission of worldwide mass usage good luck thank you very much okay so
i'm looking at the time we're half an hour out uh past what the intention was isn't this is the
issue and having such three such interesting guests on um uh but thank you very much for joining um

(01:28:16):
thanks again to our special guests joining today sir claude milan derede excuse me and cheapy make
sure to follow them on x.com at base poker hq at milan dereda and at cheap lightning respectively
a fiendish token will be given out to each of our special guest speakers just comment your cash

(01:28:40):
token address or send it as a private message if you enjoyed the show and want to show your
appreciation please feel free to drop some bch or a fiendish token into our wallet the cash token
address is in the description of our x profile or pick up an exclusive fiendish and friends nft
available for 0.05 bch or get a scorching 75 discount by paying just three nish token three

(01:29:04):
fiendish tokens or get the ultimate discount by paying just two fiendish tokens along with
100 000 fiendish emerald huzzah reach out to us directly or on x online telegram for more
information there are only five unique nfts per episode of finish and friends also available at
tap swap dot cash finish and friends episode four is at 4 30 central european time next friday

(01:29:29):
featuring kellen culiani maintain and developer bchn fulcrum and electron cash and calistheni bch
proponent active btc twitter wit battler and developer of salim wallet for all you friends
that can't wait to listen just make sure you pop that one fiendish token into the jukebox and hit
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(01:29:55):
of the latest bitcoin cash news and updates fiendish tokens are available at cauldron swap with
links in the comments this was finish and friends i wish all you lovely fiends a very good morning
good day and good night

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#3 - Claude, Milan de Reede, Cheapy: Basepoker, Nano-GPT, BCH Foundation

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#3 - Claude, Milan de Reede, Cheapy: Basepoker, Nano-GPT, BCH Foundation