September 17, 2025 • 52 mins
From premiership glory at Hawthorn to the boardroom as President of the Club and Founder of Vest Advisory, Andy Gowers’ journey is one of leadership, trust, and reinvention.
Known as a hard-working half-back in Hawthorn’s 1991 Premiership side, Andy’s playing career was built on discipline, resilience, and a relentless team-first mindset. But his story didn’t end when he hung up the boots. Instead, he turned those same qualities toward business, founding Vest Advisory to help families and business owners navigate the complex world of succession planning.
Andy reflects on the challenges of dealing with money, family, and legacy all at once, and why independence and trust are crucial in guiding clients through life’s toughest decisions. At the same time, he opens up about his path back into football leadership, culminating in his election as President of the Hawthorn Football Club in a defining moment for the club’s future.
Ready to discover how lessons from the field shape leadership in business and beyond? Tune in for Andy’s insights on resilience, navigating pressure, and why being interested in people is the real key to influence.
Follow Andy Gowers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/successionwealthestatetransfer/
Visit the Vest Advisory's website: https://www.vestadvisory.com/
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome Measures.
The kick bends it back goal.
Welcome back to Finance Friends, your personal seat at the
table with leaders shaping thefinancial world.
In this exclusive season, wemeet with high profile,
incredibly successful athleteswho achieve the greatest heights
(00:41):
on the sports field and are nowdominating the finance world.
What a pleasure it was to haveAndy Gowers, who's the current
president of the HawthorneFootball Club, also the founder
of Vest Advisory.
He shares his experience beinga premiership player at
Hawthorne to move into theBrisbane Bears, which became the
(01:02):
Brisbane Lions, and histransition from being a
footballer, which wassemi-professional at that time,
to becoming a financial advisorand leading clients through the
GFC, when they weren't veryhappy with the investments, to
becoming a successful businessowner and now a leader of one of
the biggest AFL clubs, if notthe biggest the Hawthorne
(01:24):
Football Club.
Listen to his journey and theadvice he has for existing AFL
players.
Welcome, andy, to the podcast.
How are you today?
I'm great Thanks, Fabian, goodto be here.
Well, it's good to have youhere on the eve of a long
weekend, so you're quite uniquein your situation.
(01:45):
Well, you were anex-professional football player,
so maybe talk to us about yourjourney of how did you end up
becoming a professionalfootballer.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, it wasn't looking likely in Year 11 at
school because I was picked inthe fifth A team in the open age
group and had to work my way upthrough the ranks.
I'd always been in the A teamand then the sports master, who
was also the first A team coach,actually picked me in the
fifths, which was a bit of aneedle, and I think he wanted me
(02:16):
to work for it if I was reallydetermined enough.
But I didn't play any first Ateam football in year 11.
It was only in my year 12 thatI played first 18 football and
even then I wasn't a guaranteedVFL player at that stage because
it was still called the VFL.
This is the late 80s.
(02:36):
But I repeated year 12 because Iwasn't sure what I wanted to do
and I was young as well, and itwas that year that I played
good enough footy that I knew Iwas going into the VFL and got
put on the list by Hawthorne.
There were bigger lists inthose days and they had a spare
spot.
They put me on the list andthen next thing I knew I was
(02:57):
playing with the HawthorneFootball Club in a very
successful era.
So my first four years at theclub we won three premierships.
I played in one of those, butit was very, very exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, so is it a bit different to what it is today,
where you get drafted and therewas a list?
Or did you get drafted too.
No, I didn't get drafted.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
At that stage it was a hybrid system, so you could
get drafted or you could be puton the list and there were
various things like I mean, Icould have gone to Richmond
under the father-son rule.
My father played for RichmondTrevor Gowers, so he'd qualified
.
He'd played enough games toqualify me to play there, so
that was an option.
But Hawthorne actually listedme so they were able to put me
(03:39):
on their list, I think that wasbecause I lived in the area.
So it was like a local rule andalso in those days clubs had
first dibs on certain areas.
So Hawthorne, for example, hada recruiting area in Gippsland
and so they had first right torecruit players from there.
And we recruited a number ofvery well-known players like
Michael Tuck, peter Knights, etcetera, out of Gippsland Gary
(04:03):
Ayres is another one becausethey had first right to players
in that region.
But yeah, I was just put on thelist and that gave me a choice
between two clubs Richmond,where my dad had played,
hawthorne, where I was listed.
And I've described it as aheart versus head the heart said
Richmond and the head saidHawthorne and I went with the
(04:24):
head and it was a very gooddecision.
At the time I was only a young,immature 18-year-old, but it
worked out very well, so in yourfirst three years did Hawthorne
win?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
the First four years we won three premierships, yeah,
and you played in the last one.
Is that correct?
That's right, 1991.
And how did you feel likeplaying with the greats of the
competition at that time?
Did you feel accepted from dayone or did you feel you needed
to work to get to that point?
Look, both.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I needed to prove myself and I trained very hard
in those days.
The term they use now is theone wood.
What's your standout feature ofyour game?
And for me it was running.
I was a good runner, goodmiddle distance and long
distance runner and I did a lotof running, not just in training
(05:14):
, but I would do extra runningoutside of training.
So my first pre-season atHawthorne, every second day I
ran 10 kilometers on my ownoutside of my training regime
with the club.
So I was super fit, very skinnybut super fit, so I could keep
up, or more than keep up, withthe more senior players.
And in football, as strange asthis may seem, if you're able to
(05:38):
compete athletically leavingthe footies out of it and during
pre-season you do a lot ofrunning leaving the footies out
of it and during pre-season youdo a lot of running You're part
of the bunch.
If you're doing well on therunning track and I did well in
the running and that reallyhelped me with my confidence and
so on.
But in terms of walking intothe club as a nobody 18-year-old
(05:58):
, all the senior players hadindividually come up and
introduced themselves to me andI won't rattle off every name,
but I had the likes of JohnPlatton, gary Ayres, dermot
Brereton, chris Mew, michaelTuck, darren Pritchard, come up
to me and say, hello, my name'sDermot Brereton.
And I literally felt likesaying to every single one of
(06:20):
them you don't need to tell mewho you are, I know who you are,
you're a household name and I'dsay I'm Andy Gowes and you know
welcome down.
So great to have you here.
We're so wrapped up.
You know, be a teammate andcouldn't have been more welcomed
, but in a different way thannow.
You know, now it's a textmessage from your teammates.
(06:41):
It might be a FaceTime orsomething text message from your
teammates.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It might be, a.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
FaceTime or something who knows they might add you on
.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Instagram and message you on Instagram or tag you in.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
TikTok, friend me, de-friend me but in those days
it was pre-season, started thesecond Monday in January and so
I walked in with my training bag.
I lived around the corner, Iwalked to training, in through
the door and then I'm justenveloped with people who are
welcoming me to my new club.
And it was all new to me andvery exciting.
(07:08):
I'd always wanted to be afootballer.
So I know we're going to getonto career later on during this
discussion, but the one thing Iknew I wanted to be, since I
was old enough to remember was afootballer.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Is that because your dad was an AFL player?
Oh, sorry, an AFL player atthat time.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, mainly.
And so I'd grown up around thegame.
I used to go with dad totraining.
I can't remember going well, Iprobably wasn't even born no, I
wasn't, I wasn't born when hewas playing at Richmond.
But he had a really successfulamateur career with the Old
Severians afterwards and Iremember going to training with
him as a little tacker and thedeal was, if I didn't disrupt
(07:50):
training and didn't misbehaveduring training, he would come
over after training and we'dhave what he called a milkshake
kick.
So he'd kick a big Sharon ballas high.
Well, to me it seemed like hewas kicking it as high into the
air as he could.
It probably wasn't that high,it's probably going easy on me,
but if I could pull off a mark,if I could mark the kick, then
(08:12):
I'd get a milkshake on the wayhome from training, on one
condition don't tell mum.
So they were milkshake marksand I would go along to training
.
I mean, I just loved, just lovedthe smell of the place, I loved
the sound of it, I loved thelook of it, the feel of it,
every sense you can imagine.
I just loved going to trainingwith Dad.
(08:33):
It was time with him.
He was a well-known player, hewas captain and I'd go along and
it was just the best world.
I just absolutely loved it, andso I set my sights on doing
what he did.
I wanted to play in the VFL,which became the AFL, and I
wanted to finish with the OldZaverians, which I got to do
both.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah Well, congratulations on your career.
So maybe the highlight wouldhave to be the grand final.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, definitely the premiership was the highlight.
And look, I'd been at the club,for it was my fourth year and I
was in the team in 1988, myfirst year at Hawthorne and that
side went on to win the flag by96 points, beat Melbourne.
And I was in the side butdislocated my shoulder in the
second last round.
(09:19):
So I missed all of the finalseries.
And then the second year, againthey win the premiership.
That was the very famous grandfinal against the Cats Geelong,
and again I missed out.
I'd been injured not really inthe senior side much that year,
and it was a very hard side tobreak into because it was very
talented and very good, but Ijust felt like I could have
(09:42):
slash, should have been in theteam and missed, missed too.
So by the time 1991 rolledaround I was 22, I was more
mature, I was more settled, Iwas really focused on making the
most of my opportunity oropportunities.
And as it turned out maybe itwas a coincidence, maybe it was
fate, but I returned back intothe side in the second last
(10:05):
round of 1991, which to me feltlike fate.
And then after that I nevermissed a game for Hawthorne for
the rest of my career with them.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, so then you changed teams.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yes, I moved to.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Brisbane, brisbane Bears.
At that point in time, yeah itwas Brisbane Bears at that stage
.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So I had two years with the Brisbane Bears and then
they merged with Fitzroy and webecame the Brisbane Lions.
So I changed clubs withoutchanging clubs.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
But yeah, the merger happened and we became the Lions
.
And then that side I'd alreadyretired by this stage, but that
side went on to win threepremierships in the early 2000s.
Yeah, I'd left a year or twobefore that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Two against Collingwood Correct, I'm a
Collingwood supporter.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I can tell, I can tell.
Not that you hold any grudges,of course, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So how old were you when you realised you're
probably coming towards the endof your football career?
Yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah.
And can you?
Yeah, maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Look, I was.
I'd had a really bad back in mylatter years at Brisbane, so it
was probably my career was indoubt through that period.
So that was 90, I had a caraccident in 1996.
I finished off that year prettywell, but some of those issues
started to really affect methrough particularly 97.
(11:27):
And then I worked very hard onmy body.
The physio at the time, afantastic fellow, peter Stanton,
who'd come out of the AIS inCanberra and had worked with a
lot of high-level athletes, hadsaid to me look, I can help you
get back to playing condition,but it's going to take a lot of
(11:49):
time and effort and you're goingto need to put the work in.
And look, to be honest, he wasmore focused at the time with
helping me have a back thatwould allow me to live a normal
life post-footy.
And I had young kids.
I had three kids, or still dohave three kids, but all young
kids at that stage.
(12:10):
And he said I want you to beable to pick your kids up, I
want you to be able to playtennis, golf, the things that
you like to do off the field ina normal life for someone of
your age, because I was only 20,.
I was then sort of mid to late20s, still a young man, but you
know, father of three and hesaid I want you to be able to
have a normal life once youfinish playing footy.
(12:31):
That's my main goal.
And then if you, if you comeback and play some extra footy I
was not, he didn't see it as abonus, but he said I want that
to happen for you because I knowyou want it to happen, but
really I'm more focused on adecent lifestyle after 40 years
over.
So it was sort of late 20s30-ish by the time.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I thought this is probably near the end, which is
quite important because hisperspective is seeing you as an
individual and not just as asports person to get back on the
track Correct, and thatprobably gives you a bit more
comfort to know that he's got mypersonal interests at heart and
not just for the club.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And it was a real eye-opener for me because I
thought, yeah, that is such goodadvice.
I do want to be able to pick mykids up and I do want to be
able to play golf and tennis andbe able to run and be a normal,
active individual.
Yeah.
But he also knew I'm someonewho's super active.
I'm always, always active andalways will be.
(13:29):
So he knew that once I retiredfrom footy I wasn't going to be
the kind of ex-athlete who'sgoing to sit on the couch and
get big and eat like a horse anddrink like a fish and not
exercise.
I'm not wild like that.
So he knew it was important tome, even though I hadn't
expressed it either verbally orthought about it consciously.
(13:51):
As soon as he started to talkabout it I thought that makes
complete sense.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And at that point, was it that you thought, okay,
well, what's beyond football?
Or were you thinking about thatprior to that discussion?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I was thinking about it prior.
So my story was, I said before,I only knew one thing when I
was coming out of footy Sorry,coming out of school and that
was I was going to play footyand the other thing because I
was thinking about post-schooland then post-football career
the only thing I knew was that Iwas going to be my own boss.
I always wanted to be inbusiness and I'm
(14:27):
entrepreneurially wired, so Iwanted to have my own show.
And my father was a sales andmarketing person.
He'd been in various sales andmarketing roles and at the time
he was working with IBM in quitea senior sales and marketing
role.
So I figured, and I was alwaysheaded to university, I got the
(14:52):
marks to get into university andwas always on that pathway.
And the other thing wasHawthorne, at the time it was
compulsory to do something.
You had to work or study orboth, whilst you're playing
footy.
Remembering, in that period wewere training Monday night,
tuesday night, thursday night,so not full-time like it is now.
So it was very much somethingyou did after work and or study.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So were you paid a salary while a footballer enough
to like live?
No, you were at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
No, so it was almost semi-professional then it was
like a part-time job.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Unless you were maybe a Dermot Berriden.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, that's right.
And even Dermot I mean heworked in the media at the same
time and, as I said, Hawthornehad a rule that you had to work
and or study.
So even if it had been enoughto survive on, you weren't
allowed to just do that.
And the reason for that isscientifically you actually
(15:55):
perform better when you're doingsomething alongside your sport.
But then the other part of itis it does prepare you for
whatever happens once you retireor once you are retired.
Most of the time you don't getthe choice.
So the science is pretty clearthat it's a really good thing
for your sport and yourperformance to do something else
in conjunction with the sport.
And then, of course, you'repreparing for life after sport.
(16:17):
So you never know how long yourcareer is going to last.
I think the average now is aboutthree and a half years.
The average when I played wasfour years, so it's actually
come down a bit.
So I went off to university,did a marketing degree, and the
reason I chose marketing wasbecause I figured whatever
business I get into, everythingneeds marketing and because dad
(16:39):
sort of had it in his genes andhe was in that field.
I'd seen the power of beingable to sell and the power of
being able to market and Ithought whatever business I
choose to get into, eventually,when footy finishes, whenever
that might be it's going to needsales and marketing.
That'll be a really good broadskill set to have, no matter
(16:59):
what I get into Any product orservice needs a distribution
strategy.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, so you were studying.
You finished your studies whileyou were playing still At
Hawthorne, yeah.
Did you do any part-time workin sales and marketing?
Can you talk us through that?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Sure yeah so I worked for a PR and sports promotions
firm which was owned by theperson that was also my player
agent, a fantastic guy by thename of Danny Finlay.
Danny was, and still is, agreat friend, but also a really
interesting person.
He was a very well-knownmusician in the 60s, so he was
(17:39):
in a band called MPD and it wasMike, pete and Danny.
Danny was the drummer, pete wasthe guitarist and Mike was Mike
Brady of Up there Kazali, andOne Day in September, fame.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Well, we're actually having Mike Brady at the FAAA
Grand Final lunch this yearthere you go.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I haven't even announced it, so there you go.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, there's a good little promo.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Announce it first.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah.
So Danny was in that band, sohe'd been in the show business
area for a long time and hereally had this fantastic
business that did a lot of workin the horse racing and all the
horse racing game really was themain thing.
So I worked in that businessfor about three years until I
(18:22):
moved to Brisbane.
And then I mean he was workingon my contract, so he knew what
it meant if not that thebusiness was ever going to fall
down because I was moving away.
So I worked with Danny and thatbusiness was called Raceplay.
I worked with them until theend of 1994, then moved up to
Brisbane and up there.
(18:42):
So one of the things that wasfunny to me at the time was I
had said to Brisbane I'll playfootball.
I'm really, you know, reallyexcited about playing football.
But I've got a marketing andsales and PR background.
I'm really keen to work, youknow, for a good company up
there whilst I'm playing footy.
But I'll tell you the thingthat I don't want to do and
(19:05):
that's sell signage at the Gabba.
You know the home ground of theBrisbane Bears and, as fate
would have it, that's exactlywhat they offered me and I said
this is exactly what I told youI don't want.
So, as it turned out, Ianswered an ad in the.
This is a very old-fashionedstory, but I answered an ad in
the paper.
There was an ad for a PR firmthat were looking for an account
(19:26):
executive and I applied for itand I got the job.
And the fact that I was afootballer was not only not a
positive, it was actually anegative, because it meant if
I'm playing against West CoastEagles, I've got to fly from
Brisbane to Perth.
I'm going to need to miss daysof work, or a day at least.
So I had to sell myself extrahard because I said, look,
(19:50):
hopefully I'll be able to makeup for the time lost when I am
there.
But I've sort of come from thisbackground.
I love what you're all aboutand I'd love to work with you.
But you do need to understandthere'll be times when I've got
to go to training or I've got togo interstate and that's going
to need to be a bit of a balancethat you need to be comfortable
with, or this is not going towork.
(20:11):
And they made a brave decisionand they put me on.
So I worked there for thebetter part of two years and
loved it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And how did you find balancing being a full-time
professional AFL player?
I assume that was at that point.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
No, it still wasn't full-time at that stage.
We would get there in 99, whichwas my last year, so at this
point it was still.
I mean, it was getting morefull-on, but not full-time.
So I was working pretty much afull-time job and this was the
thing.
So when people talk to me andothers about taking too much on
(20:51):
and how do you cope withmultiple aspects to your life, I
think back to that time where Ihad a wife, three young kids,
just bought a house, moved to astate where initially I knew
nobody, had no history withBrisbane whatsoever as in the
club, but nor the city Didn'tknow anyone in Brisbane.
(21:11):
I knew a couple of blokes in thefooty club, but that was
because they played at Hawthorne.
One was our runner, team runner, but hardly knew anybody.
And then I took on thisfull-time job.
So you are juggling a lot, butit was fantastic.
I absolutely loved it and I wasthe only male.
So this PR firm had two teamsand everyone was female except
(21:34):
for me.
So I was a bit of an oddity inthat I was the only male, but
also because I played footy,there was an extra degree of
interest in who the hell is thisguy yeah, and I imagine at the
time footy in Brisbane probablyis not what footy in Brisbane is
today Very low profile likebaseball is in Australia.
(21:55):
Everyone knows it's bigsomewhere, it's just not big
here.
That's what it was like inBrisbane with AFL, so it was a
bit of a.
It was really interesting forme, but the thing that I kept on
focusing on was I had toperform at work, regardless of
what I did outside of thatoffice.
I had to perform for ourclients.
(22:16):
So we had clients like Safeway.
We had a charity which wasmultiple sclerosis.
We worked with a whole range ofinteresting clients.
One of the most interesting onewas and initially I wasn't
happy about getting this client,but I led the charge on this
one the Bible Society, and theyhad a new version of the Bible
(22:39):
that they wanted to release.
It was more Australianized andmore modern language.
So we ended up doing a reallygood brainstorming session on
this and I was so happy with theresult so we turned it into a
comedy sketch and, rather thanyou know, thou Shalt Not Steal,
(23:01):
which is, you know, theold-fashioned version, we turned
it into Don't Nick Stuff theAussie version and then what we
did was we approached.
We sent it out to all the FMradio stations with the comics
on air in Breakfast Radio, whichare everywhere, and what
normally happens in the PR worldis you send out a media release
and you're the one who has tochase them to get any story or
(23:23):
any traction with publicity.
We had the opposite impactPeople were haunting us, wanting
to get us on air.
So what we ended up doing wasputting up one of the people
from the Bible Society, who wasan archbishop and a very
conservative man and, look totheir credit, they bought into
the concept because we said wehave got a concept here that may
(23:47):
scare you, but hear us outbefore you say no.
And we said your intention hereis to sell copies of your Bible
.
We're going to help you getpublicity for it and it's going
to be known when people walkinto a bookstore, which again is
an old fashioned concept in away.
When people walk into abookstore and they see this
(24:07):
Bible, they're going to haveheard about it on the radio.
So it's going to help withkeeping it top of mind.
And, as it turned out, we won agolden target award from the
Public Relations Institute ofAustralia because this went
absolutely crazy, and so we werereally proud of our client
because they had taken a leap offaith pardon the pun and they
(24:28):
sold way more versions of theBible than they had hoped for,
because people were talkingabout it and the comedians loved
it, they had a ball with it, soit was fun and I loved doing
that.
And then I'd leave the office,go to training and the thing
that the combination of the twothat I loved was my mind when I
was at work.
It was totally engrossed inwhat I was doing and then I'd
(24:51):
say so you guys, I've got to getto training.
So I'd typically leave early andI'd hop in my car, drive to
training and then I've got toswitch on and think about
kicking the footy and having funwith my teammates, and I hadn't
thought about footy hardly atall through the day, other than
I've just got to make sure Ileave at the time that I need to
, so I'm not late.
But other than that, I wasfocused on work when I was at
(25:14):
work and I was focused on footywhen I was at footy and that was
really helpful.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, and that's great that you share that where
you have that.
You know you have otherpriorities outside of just
football.
Obviously you didn't have achoice at that time because you
were semi-professional.
Yes, even like myself likegoing to work and the work I do
very focused and can bestressful at times.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And I love going to the footy club on Tuesday night
and not thinking about work.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's a release, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And you're just there with your mates having a kick.
Yeah, and that's what it'sabout.
Obviously a different level.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Same principle the same
Speaker 2 (25:44):
principle just having something that switch off or
the focus elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It's really important .
Yeah, it is really important.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So thank you for sharing.
So now let's talk about yourcurrent business and what you
currently do.
Can you share the name of thatcompany and what that involves?
No problem.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So it's called Vest Advisory, as in V-E-S-T, and we
specialize in successionplanning.
So I don't know whether you'veseen the miniseries Succession,
but it's one of the great shows.
It's all about a family thatdoesn't do succession and all
the problems that they suffer asa result, and they're a high
profile family they're very wellknown in the show at least.
(26:22):
And so we help families andbusiness owners deal with the
issue of succession.
And that could be businessowners that are wondering what
to do with their business,whether they sell it, whether
they pass it on to the nextgeneration, whether they might,
or one partner might, buy it,the other one, they might sell
it together, whether it's amanagement buyout what makes
(26:46):
sense for the business, whatmakes sense for the owners, and
so on.
And then there's successionplanning with families, which
could include what's going tohappen with the kids in terms of
inheriting money from mum anddad.
Have we got wills and powers ofattorney and executorships and
trusteeships in place?
What about keeping the moneywithin the family if there's a
(27:07):
divorce in the family?
So there are ways and means ofdoing that, and it's it's all
those, um, all those issueswhich are quite um, you know,
touch, that can be touchysubjects, they can be emotional
and they're very confidentialand you know they can be very um
very hard topics to actuallyvisit.
And, as we continue to say topeople, the topics of money,
(27:30):
death and family dynamics ontheir own are big topics.
You throw them in together andit's no wonder plenty of people
put it off and don't actually gothere.
So what we do is encourage ourclients to A think about it and
B talk about it, and the onething that we do say to people
is, whether you do it with VestAdvisory or someone else, it's
(27:55):
really good practice to do itwith an independent organization
, or we've got a client whocalls it the independent umpire,
and sometimes you are an umpire.
You're an umpire, you're acoach, you're a part
psychologist, you're a guide,you're a mediator.
You're a umpire, you're a coach, you're a part psychologist,
you're a guide, you're amediator.
You're a mediator sometimes andyou help.
Ultimately, you're there tohelp people make decisions and
(28:16):
you might pull on a range oftools to do that, but really
it's about holding people'shands, making sure they've got
all the tools at their disposalto make sure they can make good
decisions, and you leave them toit and then give them guidance
and support where they need it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So what made you from PR go to being a succession
advisor?
Is there another role you hadbetween the two that helped you
lead due to what you do today?
Correct.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, that's the middle part of the story.
So I finished up in the PRworld and look, footy was
getting more and more full onand by the time 1999 came around
it was full time.
So a friend of mine was workingwith the Financial Planning
Association at the time in quitea high role and he was staying
(29:11):
with us in Brisbane and he livesin Melbourne, still does but he
was on a business trip toBrisbane and we were having a
beer on the back deck of ourhouse at the time and he said
what are you going to do whenyou finish playing footy?
And I said I don't know, butit'll be my own business.
That's the only thing that Iknow.
And he said, yeah, but what?
What business?
(29:33):
And I said I honestly don'tknow.
I'm completely open to what itcould look like and because he'd
had this great exposure to thefinancial planning world, he
said I reckon you should have alook at financial planning.
He said trustworthiness isreally important.
Doing a good job for clients isultimately what they're after,
so that's really important.
And he said the other thingthat's important is to be able
to attract customers, clients.
And he said you've reallyalready got one and three
(29:55):
covered as in trustworthinessand being able to attract
clients.
You're already naturally goodat that.
But he said the only thingyou'd need to work on is the
second one, which is being ableto do a good job.
And he said that's going tocome down to two things One
study and two, experience.
You're going to need to work inthe field and he said why don't
you go and research it foryourself?
(30:16):
I'll give you some names ofsome industry leaders who I
respect.
And because he was quite highup in that world, he had access
to some fantastic people andshout them a coffee and find out
what they think and get theirthoughts.
Do your own, dd.
So I did all that and at the endof that process decided yeah,
I'm really interested in thisfield and I'd always been
(30:38):
interested in business.
As I said, owning my ownbusiness was part of that, but
I'd always loved business.
I was pretty good at maths.
I enjoy economics, maths, thebusiness subjects and politics,
and at uni I'd done all thosesubjects as well in a business
degree and I thought this sortof sits in pretty comfortably
(30:58):
with me Love helping people andI thought I really like this
field.
I didn't know much about it andat that stage, so this is 99.
This field I didn't know muchabout it and at that stage, so
this is 99.
Although it was somewhat anestablished industry, it was
still very much a cottageindustry as I saw it, and the
one thing that stood out to mewas the way that people were
(31:19):
remunerated, predominantly atthat stage, was via commission,
and the people that Iinterviewed, almost to a T, said
this is not where this industryis headed, it's headed to
fee-for-service and thosebusinesses were charging that
way.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And also, when you talk about commission, that's
commission within a product.
So the end client doesn'tactually know and you, from my
understanding, you don'tactually have to disclose how
much you're earning.
Well, at that stage they didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That became law later on and so on, and you did need
to disclose it.
I mean, my view is why wouldn'tyou disclose it?
Be transparent with yourclients, at any rate.
What I clearly discovered,thanks to these industry leaders
who shared their wisdom with me, was that this is going to be a
really important industry Atthe moment.
At that time it was a cottageindustry, but it had a lot of
(32:08):
potential and it's definitelygoing to head to fee for service
and I actually thought thatmade a lot of sense and I
thought why wouldn't you chargea fee for your service if you
provide a good one, like lawyers, like doctors?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
like accounts.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
People expect to pay People expect to pay for a good
service.
It's value You're providingvalue, value, you're providing
value.
So, long story short, I did afinancial planning diploma by
correspondence and that waswhilst my footy career.
That was my last year in footy,at least at professional level,
and then I finished that offwhen we moved back to Melbourne.
(32:42):
I worked in a few roles but Ifound out my sweet spot was
business development.
No surprise, the marketingbackground sales out.
My sweet spot was businessdevelopment.
No surprise, you know themarketing background sales,
marketing, pr.
Business development is thenext best thing.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I used to call myself the brochure delivery man the
BDM, and also work being a partof a team.
Yes, Right you have to buildrelationships.
You do Because if you're notmates off the field, I think
it's hard to perform on thefield.
It is If you want to get a kick, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So, yeah, I basically worked out fairly quickly that
my because there are so manyroles within that industry and I
realised, look, I'm not atechnical person, I'm a people
person.
So I'm going to focus on thepeople.
And the people need help, sothey need to know where to go
that they can trust.
Back to my mate's analogybefore where can they trust and
who's going to do a good job?
So I partnered up with a firm,donahue Financial Planning and
(33:38):
this was in the early 2000s whenI'd moved back from Melbourne,
and my role was to introduce newclients to them.
I became their BDM.
So I did that for a while andthe owner of that business
because he knew that I wantedand I kept on hounding him,
saying you know, I really wantto own.
Would you sell your business tome, you know?
Just cheekily.
And he said honestly, if youwant to run your own financial
(34:01):
planning, wealth managementbusiness, you're going to have
to spend some time on the toolsactually producing the advice.
And I said that makes sense tome.
But where would you do that?
Where would you suggest?
He said go to one of the bigbanks.
They will train you.
You won't have to worry aboutclients because they've got
millions of them and you'll haveplenty to work on and they will
(34:22):
come in the door.
You won't even have to findthem.
And that's exactly what I did.
So I went and worked with ANZ,and it was during the GFC.
So I walked into the PrestonBusiness Centre for ANZ on Bell
Street, preston.
I inherited a client base ofabout 250 small to medium
business owners and some higherend individual clients.
(34:43):
And it's fair to say that,because the GFC was in full
swing, there were a lot ofscared customers and I'd
inherited the phone from theprevious advisor.
And people are ringing me orthey thought they were ringing
him, but I was answering.
They were ringing and abusingthe hell out of me for losing
all their money.
(35:03):
And, apart from getting a soreear, I lost my voice trying to
explain to them.
Listen, firstly, I've never metyou.
Secondly, you haven't lost allyour money.
Thirdly, why don't you come in,bring your accountant, bring
your wife, bring whoever youlike, and let's have a down to
earth, sensible discussion aboutthis, because there's a way
(35:24):
through this that's actuallygoing to be really good for you.
And so I just did that withevery client.
And what was really interestingto me was.
It was a great life lesson.
It was like the chicken littlemoment.
The sky was falling in forthese people.
And when they came in, it gaveme time to have a look through
their files and in every singlecase they were categorized as an
(35:50):
aggressive investor, whichmeant they should be wanting to
buy more stuff when markets weregoing down, which they did
severely during the GFC.
So I said to them look, one oftwo things is happening here
You've either beenmiscategorized as an aggressive
investor you should be aconservative investor, so that's
on us if that's the case oryou're just scared, and I said
(36:10):
my feeling is so.
I listened to their responsesand in every single case they
were just scared, which is fine.
We all have moments where wedoubt ourselves or we doubt
things, particularly whenmarkets are going down and the
media is having a field day,scaring the hell out of
everybody.
I love it.
I love it.
That's what sells papers andgets you to watch the TV and
listen to the radio.
(36:30):
And I don't know whether youcan recall that time, fabian,
but I remember waking up duringthe GSC, and I would wake up to
talkback radio on AM and thelead story on the news for weeks
was how much the share markethad tanked in America overnight.
(36:50):
That's what the news wastelling us every morning.
So of course the news wastelling us every morning.
So of course people were scared.
So part of the role even thoughI'm not a technical person and I
kept saying, look, in terms ofwhat you're invested in, let's
park that decision for a latertime.
But let's just talk aboutbasics here.
(37:11):
You're either scared or you'vebeen miscategorized.
I think it's the former.
And then I got the feedback theaccountants are listening to
what I'm saying.
That came along with my clientsand they're going yeah, it
makes sense.
And and and everybody calmeddown.
It was, it was a really greatlife lesson.
Bit of assurance, bit ofassurance.
And they realized, yeah, youknow what I am doing?
A chicken little, I'm justscared the fuck.
(37:39):
The sky's going to fall in andit's probably not.
And one of the ways that I gotthem to realize that this was
the case was I'd say look, I cansee from your balance sheet
here you own a house worth $2million and you've got a share
portfolio that used to be worth$2 million and right now, on
paper, it's valued at 1.2.
So on paper it's had an$800,000 adjustment, 1.2.
So on paper it's had an$800,000 adjustment and you are
saying to me you want to sellall your shares.
(38:04):
Now just park that discussionfor a moment.
What would you do if your house, all of a sudden, you were told
it's not worth $2 million today, it's only worth 1.2.
Would you sell it or would youhang on to it?
And every single person said,well, I'd hang on to it, I'd
wait for the market to go up.
And I said that's exactly whatyou should do with your shares.
It's exactly the same principle.
You're just looking at them asdifferent things.
They're both assets and you'rejust looking at it because
you're scared One's got datapricing, one doesn't.
(38:25):
That's right.
Yeah, one's more liquid andone's not, but the principle's
the same.
That's an asset, they're assets, and you're just scared.
Don't do something silly justbecause you're scared.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and is that dealing?
Working during the GFC as afinancial advisor, dealing with
those clients?
Has that helped you in yourrole today?
Oh, a hell of a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I mean it was part psychology, you're part coach,
you're part mentor, you're partcoach, you're part guide, you're
all kinds of things, and you'vegot to be able to whack some
way, depending on the need andif you understand your client
and you listen properly and youwatch their body language,
that's why I got them to come in.
I mean, zoom wasn't really athing at the time and let me
(39:13):
tell you, the phone is not agood way to talk to people who
are really, really scared.
So I said, come in, it'll giveme time to think about and look
at your situation.
Let's get to know each otherbetter.
Bring in whoever you like,bring in your whole family if
you want, but let's talk aboutthis rationally and let's go
through it.
So it's helped me.
I mean now, with the successionplanning discussions, we're
(39:35):
dealing with emotionalsituations.
Quite often we're dealing withemotional topics.
We're dealing with, as I said,those topics before money, death
, family dynamics and multiplestakeholders as well.
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it'sthe fear of the unknown what's
going to happen if?
And you can have plans for allkinds of eventualities.
But nothing's more, I guess,assuring than having plans for
(39:59):
all of those things and then youcan work out which way you
actually decide to go, dependingon how you feel at the time,
because we've got to be flexibleas well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, you talked about balance.
You've always had multiplethings, you're always doing
multiple things, you want tokeep active and you know talk
about best advisory and you'realso the president of the
Hawthorne Football Club.
So how much time do you spendwith the Hawthorne Football Club
?
What's your involvement?
Can you share some insights onthat?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, sure.
So I got elected at the end of2022 and I'd been on the board
previously, but not as president, and the role of president is
much more time like amazinglymore time-consuming than being a
director.
And I'd been football directorpreviously, and that was fairly
involved in its own right, butfor a number of reasons, the
(40:53):
role initially was incrediblytime-intensive.
I got elected and my electionwas in contrast to what the
board wanted at the time, so Iguess that was a hostile
election.
I didn't have any handover, Ididn't have any induction.
I just had to pick up thepieces that I decided were the
(41:15):
most important to pick up.
There was no handbook, so I waslearning on the job, and not
only that.
I needed to get to know myfellow board members, my fellow
directors.
I needed to get to know all thesenior executive.
I needed to get to know thestaff.
I needed to get to know thefootball department and a whole
number of other stakeholdersthat comprise a footy club,
(41:36):
including sponsors and coteriegroups and commercial partners
members.
There's a whole litany of areasin a football club, as you know
, so I had to get to know all ofthose people pretty quick,
smart, and so that needed a lotof time.
There were a lot of coffees had, there were a lot of one-on-one
conversations, there were a lotof meetings, there were a lot
(41:59):
of discussions, and so thatbecame very full on and I'd sold
my wealth management business.
So this was the other part ofthe bit.
So post ANZ, I set up my ownfirm with a colleague from ANZ
and we ran that for about 11years and then sold it, and
that's when I decided I'dspecialize in succession
planning.
But so when I sold that business, I had a period of time where I
(42:23):
worked with the company thatbought it and that ended up
being close to 18 months, andthat was during COVID.
So that gave me time to thinkand reflect about what I really
wanted to focus my energies onbusiness-wise think and reflect
about what I really wanted tofocus my energies on
business-wise.
And at the same time I felt thecalling to put my hand up for
president at the HawthorneFootball Club.
(42:45):
And I did know, if I gotelected, that at least I'd have
a bit of time that I could spendto do things properly.
Because, a I'd sold my businessand, b I hadn't made clear
plans on what I was going to donext.
So there was a period of timethere of a few months where I
didn't have a working role, so Icould literally spend whatever
(43:06):
time I needed to on the club.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Because, from my understanding the role as
president, that's not a paidposition.
No, it's voluntary.
So a lot of people like myself,prior to having a discussion
with you, would just assumeyou're getting paid a really
nice salary.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
People ask me how's your job going at Hawthorne?
I nicely, I hope it's nice.
I nicely correct them and sayit's not a job, it's a voluntary
role.
My job is in my business, butit's certainly a very important
role.
But every chair slash presidentand director of every football
club or every AFL football clubis a volunteer, unpaid volunteer
(43:43):
.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
So you talked about earlier on in the podcast around
when you first started atHawthorne how you had to have a
job or study.
Can you talk to me about thecurrent Hawthorne Football Club,
which I assume is a lot biggerthan what it was when you joined
in terms of members, and howsuccessful the team has been,
(44:06):
even in recent years, and thisyear included?
Is that still a thing?
Where do players part of yourrole as a president or as a
football club?
Do you enforce players toensure they have another job or
they do study?
Would you talk us through that?
Speaker 1 (44:26):
please Well look.
I think the first difference topoint out is it is now very
full-time, so they have onemandate.
The players have one mandatedday off a week, so during that
day it's not forced upon them,but they're strongly encouraged
to study and or get some workexperience around their football
(44:48):
commitments.
So that's in, I guess, inreference to the fact that not
only is it good for thempost-career, to be honest, when
they're playing footy they'renot wanting to think about
what's good for them post-career, they want to know what's good
for their career.
So, as I said before once, theyrealize well, actually, by
(45:12):
having something else toconcentrate on and focus on and
develop myself in, that willactually help me on field, and
so that's quite a powerful toolthat clubs and players can tap
into.
But look, there's a wholesection within our club that is
dedicated to player development.
So we have a player developmentmanager and a player
(45:33):
development team.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So we talk about player development that's off
the field.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Off the field yeah, so look, any single thing that
could help a player with theiron-field performance they have
access to, but I'm talking aboutoff-field here, which is study
and or work.
So there are things set up forthem that they can explore.
The AFL Players Association hasan allocated amount of money
(46:02):
that they siphon from the TVrights effectively money that
the AFL gives to them orprovides to them and they
allocate that money to playerswho want to study, for example,
and the way it works is you'llbe reimbursed for the cost of
your studies when you pass asubject or subjects.
You basically apply for aneducation grant and it's
approved, subject to yourpassing the subjects, which is a
(46:23):
really smart way to do it.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And most corporate businesses do the same yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, it's a great way to do it.
So the players can tap intothat, and most of them are doing
something Nearly all of themare doing something, if not all
of them and that's a greatplatform that they can utilize
whilst they're playing football.
And then the other side of it,too is and I'm really passionate
(46:48):
about this helping young people.
And what I would call eliteperformance advice, which I
provide to people as well, isbeing a bit of a sounding board
and saying look, any time youwant to have a chat, because
I've come through the playingroute.
I've got a story to tellplayers.
I've been in your boots, mate.
(47:09):
I've been in your shoes.
I know what it's like to play.
I know what it's like to playand study.
I know what it's like to play,study and work and have a family
as well and have a family andit will help you.
It will help you play betterfooty and of course, it will
help you post-football and alsohelping players plug into the
right kind of plug them into anetwork.
(47:30):
So if they've got an interestin a particular field, introduce
them to people that are expertsin that field.
And who interest in aparticular field?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
introduce them to people that are experts in that
field and who knows what kind ofmentoring relationships can be
established in that way too,yeah, Well feel free if any of
the Hawks players want a careerin finance and want to have a
chat, always open to having achat and a coffee.
Yeah, fantastic.
So what advice do you talkabout the players?
What advice do you give them?
Now, when you talk aboutsounding board, is it go out
(47:58):
there, learn, develop, try notto be too ingrained in just
football.
Would that be the biggest pieceof advice?
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I mean, I'm big on encouraging them to learn.
So, yes, do a formal course,but there's a lot of sense in
being interested and reading asmuch as you can, learning as
much as you can.
You know, when you go to a, ifyou have to do an appearance at
a business or a networkingfunction, or even just a footy
(48:29):
function, go and meet some newpeople.
Ask them what they do, why dothey do it?
Why do they love doing whatthey do?
How do they start theirbusiness?
Why do they love employingpeople?
Why do they love producing theservice or the products they do?
And get to know people and beinterested in others.
They'll be interested in youanyway because you play footy
right, but find out about themand that will make you stand out
(48:52):
.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, is it hard to do that?
Because if you're a footballer,I don't know, say an example,
someone that's really good, willDay, who plays for you guys,
who's an exceptional player,when he goes to an event,
everyone wants to talk to him.
Yes, so how do you reverse theconversation to ask about, you
know, fabian Ruggieri from Riverof Criminal?
(49:14):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Well, what I do is I?
Well, it goes back to what Isaid before.
I have a genuine interest inpeople, and people love telling
you their story.
It's their favourite thing totalk about.
So ask them about it.
And what you find is, the moreyou do it, the more you get into
the habit of being better at itsorry, of doing it more often
and then you get better andbetter and better.
(49:38):
And what you find is people'sstories are genuinely
interesting and they lovetelling it.
So ask them about it, but keepasking the deeper questions.
So, oh, that's interesting.
How did you get into that?
All right, and then there'soften a great story behind how
the hell?
they sometimes's justcoincidence, sometimes it's fate
, sometimes it's.
I bumped into a guy at a pub,yeah, and my life went in a
(49:59):
different direction.
I mean my story about financialplanning.
My mate on the back deck over abeer you should consider this.
So I'm matt lally is his name.
I mention him always becauseI'm so grateful to him.
If if he hadn't have asked methe question, I wouldn't have
had that discussion.
So it was his question of methat drew out of me enough
(50:20):
information to at least explorewhat he was talking about.
So ask people questions, andsome great advice I was given
years ago by a financial plannerwho a mutual friend introduced
me to was most people spend toomuch time trying to be
interesting because they talkabout themselves.
But he said the reality is themost interesting people are
(50:43):
interested.
They ask questions of others.
They want to know becausethey're curious and they ask
legitimately curious questionsbecause they actually want to
know.
So it's not just about askingquestions, it's about listening
to the answers and understandingwhy that answer was important
to that person yeah, genuinelyinterested.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
And when I did my MBA we learned about five whys.
Yep, I'm sure if you've heardof that before.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Keep asking deeper, Like why did you do that?
Okay, well, why did you do that?
Why?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
did you do that?
Yeah, and just to get down to,ultimately, the, the root reason
as to to why you did that andlearn deeper so but thank you
very much for coming on thefinance podcast.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation.
Likewise, I feel like we couldkeep talking for another hour
but I'm mindful of time weshould maybe in uh or hopefully
all the best uh with festadvisory it seems like you're
(51:36):
already super successful and, uh, all the best with the hawks
this year.
I hope that for you.
I hope they go all the way.
Not so much very kind, not somuch for me, but uh, thank you
very much.
I've appreciated the discussionlikewise.
Thanks, baby.
Thanks for listening this week.
Stay tuned for our next episodeand keep up to date with us by
(52:00):
following the Finance Friendspodcast on Instagram and TikTok
Plus.
Connect with us and our guestsover on our LinkedIn page, all
linked in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
Welcome Measures.
The kick bends it back goal.
Welcome back to Finance Friends, your personal seat at the
table with leaders shaping thefinancial world.
In this exclusive season, wemeet with high profile,
incredibly successful athleteswho achieve the greatest heights
(00:41):
on the sports field and are nowdominating the finance world.
What a pleasure it was to haveAndy Gowers, who's the current
president of the HawthorneFootball Club, also the founder
of Vest Advisory.
He shares his experience beinga premiership player at
Hawthorne to move into theBrisbane Bears, which became the
(01:02):
Brisbane Lions, and histransition from being a
footballer, which wassemi-professional at that time,
to becoming a financial advisorand leading clients through the
GFC, when they weren't veryhappy with the investments, to
becoming a successful businessowner and now a leader of one of
the biggest AFL clubs, if notthe biggest the Hawthorne
(01:24):
Football Club.
Listen to his journey and theadvice he has for existing AFL
players.
Welcome, andy, to the podcast.
How are you today?
I'm great Thanks, Fabian, goodto be here.
Well, it's good to have youhere on the eve of a long
weekend, so you're quite uniquein your situation.
(01:45):
Well, you were anex-professional football player,
so maybe talk to us about yourjourney of how did you end up
becoming a professionalfootballer.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, it wasn't looking likely in Year 11 at
school because I was picked inthe fifth A team in the open age
group and had to work my way upthrough the ranks.
I'd always been in the A teamand then the sports master, who
was also the first A team coach,actually picked me in the
fifths, which was a bit of aneedle, and I think he wanted me
(02:16):
to work for it if I was reallydetermined enough.
But I didn't play any first Ateam football in year 11.
It was only in my year 12 thatI played first 18 football and
even then I wasn't a guaranteedVFL player at that stage because
it was still called the VFL.
This is the late 80s.
(02:36):
But I repeated year 12 because Iwasn't sure what I wanted to do
and I was young as well, and itwas that year that I played
good enough footy that I knew Iwas going into the VFL and got
put on the list by Hawthorne.
There were bigger lists inthose days and they had a spare
spot.
They put me on the list andthen next thing I knew I was
(02:57):
playing with the HawthorneFootball Club in a very
successful era.
So my first four years at theclub we won three premierships.
I played in one of those, butit was very, very exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, so is it a bit different to what it is today,
where you get drafted and therewas a list?
Or did you get drafted too.
No, I didn't get drafted.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
At that stage it was a hybrid system, so you could
get drafted or you could be puton the list and there were
various things like I mean, Icould have gone to Richmond
under the father-son rule.
My father played for RichmondTrevor Gowers, so he'd qualified
.
He'd played enough games toqualify me to play there, so
that was an option.
But Hawthorne actually listedme so they were able to put me
(03:39):
on their list, I think that wasbecause I lived in the area.
So it was like a local rule andalso in those days clubs had
first dibs on certain areas.
So Hawthorne, for example, hada recruiting area in Gippsland
and so they had first right torecruit players from there.
And we recruited a number ofvery well-known players like
Michael Tuck, peter Knights, etcetera, out of Gippsland Gary
(04:03):
Ayres is another one becausethey had first right to players
in that region.
But yeah, I was just put on thelist and that gave me a choice
between two clubs Richmond,where my dad had played,
hawthorne, where I was listed.
And I've described it as aheart versus head the heart said
Richmond and the head saidHawthorne and I went with the
(04:24):
head and it was a very gooddecision.
At the time I was only a young,immature 18-year-old, but it
worked out very well, so in yourfirst three years did Hawthorne
win?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
the First four years we won three premierships, yeah,
and you played in the last one.
Is that correct?
That's right, 1991.
And how did you feel likeplaying with the greats of the
competition at that time?
Did you feel accepted from dayone or did you feel you needed
to work to get to that point?
Look, both.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I needed to prove myself and I trained very hard
in those days.
The term they use now is theone wood.
What's your standout feature ofyour game?
And for me it was running.
I was a good runner, goodmiddle distance and long
distance runner and I did a lotof running, not just in training
(05:14):
, but I would do extra runningoutside of training.
So my first pre-season atHawthorne, every second day I
ran 10 kilometers on my ownoutside of my training regime
with the club.
So I was super fit, very skinnybut super fit, so I could keep
up, or more than keep up, withthe more senior players.
And in football, as strange asthis may seem, if you're able to
(05:38):
compete athletically leavingthe footies out of it and during
pre-season you do a lot ofrunning leaving the footies out
of it and during pre-season youdo a lot of running You're part
of the bunch.
If you're doing well on therunning track and I did well in
the running and that reallyhelped me with my confidence and
so on.
But in terms of walking intothe club as a nobody 18-year-old
(05:58):
, all the senior players hadindividually come up and
introduced themselves to me andI won't rattle off every name,
but I had the likes of JohnPlatton, gary Ayres, dermot
Brereton, chris Mew, michaelTuck, darren Pritchard, come up
to me and say, hello, my name'sDermot Brereton.
And I literally felt likesaying to every single one of
(06:20):
them you don't need to tell mewho you are, I know who you are,
you're a household name and I'dsay I'm Andy Gowes and you know
welcome down.
So great to have you here.
We're so wrapped up.
You know, be a teammate andcouldn't have been more welcomed
, but in a different way thannow.
You know, now it's a textmessage from your teammates.
(06:41):
It might be a FaceTime orsomething text message from your
teammates.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
It might be, a.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
FaceTime or something who knows they might add you on
.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Instagram and message you on Instagram or tag you in.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
TikTok, friend me, de-friend me but in those days
it was pre-season, started thesecond Monday in January and so
I walked in with my training bag.
I lived around the corner, Iwalked to training, in through
the door and then I'm justenveloped with people who are
welcoming me to my new club.
And it was all new to me andvery exciting.
(07:08):
I'd always wanted to be afootballer.
So I know we're going to getonto career later on during this
discussion, but the one thing Iknew I wanted to be, since I
was old enough to remember was afootballer.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Is that because your dad was an AFL player?
Oh, sorry, an AFL player atthat time.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, mainly.
And so I'd grown up around thegame.
I used to go with dad totraining.
I can't remember going well, Iprobably wasn't even born no, I
wasn't, I wasn't born when hewas playing at Richmond.
But he had a really successfulamateur career with the Old
Severians afterwards and Iremember going to training with
him as a little tacker and thedeal was, if I didn't disrupt
(07:50):
training and didn't misbehaveduring training, he would come
over after training and we'dhave what he called a milkshake
kick.
So he'd kick a big Sharon ballas high.
Well, to me it seemed like hewas kicking it as high into the
air as he could.
It probably wasn't that high,it's probably going easy on me,
but if I could pull off a mark,if I could mark the kick, then
(08:12):
I'd get a milkshake on the wayhome from training, on one
condition don't tell mum.
So they were milkshake marksand I would go along to training
.
I mean, I just loved, just lovedthe smell of the place, I loved
the sound of it, I loved thelook of it, the feel of it,
every sense you can imagine.
I just loved going to trainingwith Dad.
(08:33):
It was time with him.
He was a well-known player, hewas captain and I'd go along and
it was just the best world.
I just absolutely loved it, andso I set my sights on doing
what he did.
I wanted to play in the VFL,which became the AFL, and I
wanted to finish with the OldZaverians, which I got to do
both.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah Well, congratulations on your career.
So maybe the highlight wouldhave to be the grand final.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, definitely the premiership was the highlight.
And look, I'd been at the club,for it was my fourth year and I
was in the team in 1988, myfirst year at Hawthorne and that
side went on to win the flag by96 points, beat Melbourne.
And I was in the side butdislocated my shoulder in the
second last round.
(09:19):
So I missed all of the finalseries.
And then the second year, againthey win the premiership.
That was the very famous grandfinal against the Cats Geelong,
and again I missed out.
I'd been injured not really inthe senior side much that year,
and it was a very hard side tobreak into because it was very
talented and very good, but Ijust felt like I could have
(09:42):
slash, should have been in theteam and missed, missed too.
So by the time 1991 rolledaround I was 22, I was more
mature, I was more settled, Iwas really focused on making the
most of my opportunity oropportunities.
And as it turned out maybe itwas a coincidence, maybe it was
fate, but I returned back intothe side in the second last
(10:05):
round of 1991, which to me feltlike fate.
And then after that I nevermissed a game for Hawthorne for
the rest of my career with them.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, so then you changed teams.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yes, I moved to.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Brisbane, brisbane Bears.
At that point in time, yeah itwas Brisbane Bears at that stage
.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So I had two years with the Brisbane Bears and then
they merged with Fitzroy and webecame the Brisbane Lions.
So I changed clubs withoutchanging clubs.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
But yeah, the merger happened and we became the Lions
.
And then that side I'd alreadyretired by this stage, but that
side went on to win threepremierships in the early 2000s.
Yeah, I'd left a year or twobefore that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Two against Collingwood Correct, I'm a
Collingwood supporter.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I can tell, I can tell.
Not that you hold any grudges,of course, no, not at all.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So how old were you when you realised you're
probably coming towards the endof your football career?
Yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah.
And can you?
Yeah, maybe yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Look, I was.
I'd had a really bad back in mylatter years at Brisbane, so it
was probably my career was indoubt through that period.
So that was 90, I had a caraccident in 1996.
I finished off that year prettywell, but some of those issues
started to really affect methrough particularly 97.
(11:27):
And then I worked very hard onmy body.
The physio at the time, afantastic fellow, peter Stanton,
who'd come out of the AIS inCanberra and had worked with a
lot of high-level athletes, hadsaid to me look, I can help you
get back to playing condition,but it's going to take a lot of
(11:49):
time and effort and you're goingto need to put the work in.
And look, to be honest, he wasmore focused at the time with
helping me have a back thatwould allow me to live a normal
life post-footy.
And I had young kids.
I had three kids, or still dohave three kids, but all young
kids at that stage.
(12:10):
And he said I want you to beable to pick your kids up, I
want you to be able to playtennis, golf, the things that
you like to do off the field ina normal life for someone of
your age, because I was only 20,.
I was then sort of mid to late20s, still a young man, but you
know, father of three and hesaid I want you to be able to
have a normal life once youfinish playing footy.
(12:31):
That's my main goal.
And then if you, if you comeback and play some extra footy I
was not, he didn't see it as abonus, but he said I want that
to happen for you because I knowyou want it to happen, but
really I'm more focused on adecent lifestyle after 40 years
over.
So it was sort of late 20s30-ish by the time.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I thought this is probably near the end, which is
quite important because hisperspective is seeing you as an
individual and not just as asports person to get back on the
track Correct, and thatprobably gives you a bit more
comfort to know that he's got mypersonal interests at heart and
not just for the club.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And it was a real eye-opener for me because I
thought, yeah, that is such goodadvice.
I do want to be able to pick mykids up and I do want to be
able to play golf and tennis andbe able to run and be a normal,
active individual.
Yeah.
But he also knew I'm someonewho's super active.
I'm always, always active andalways will be.
(13:29):
So he knew that once I retiredfrom footy I wasn't going to be
the kind of ex-athlete who'sgoing to sit on the couch and
get big and eat like a horse anddrink like a fish and not
exercise.
I'm not wild like that.
So he knew it was important tome, even though I hadn't
expressed it either verbally orthought about it consciously.
(13:51):
As soon as he started to talkabout it I thought that makes
complete sense.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And at that point, was it that you thought, okay,
well, what's beyond football?
Or were you thinking about thatprior to that discussion?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I was thinking about it prior.
So my story was, I said before,I only knew one thing when I
was coming out of footy Sorry,coming out of school and that
was I was going to play footyand the other thing because I
was thinking about post-schooland then post-football career
the only thing I knew was that Iwas going to be my own boss.
I always wanted to be inbusiness and I'm
(14:27):
entrepreneurially wired, so Iwanted to have my own show.
And my father was a sales andmarketing person.
He'd been in various sales andmarketing roles and at the time
he was working with IBM in quitea senior sales and marketing
role.
So I figured, and I was alwaysheaded to university, I got the
(14:52):
marks to get into university andwas always on that pathway.
And the other thing wasHawthorne, at the time it was
compulsory to do something.
You had to work or study orboth, whilst you're playing
footy.
Remembering, in that period wewere training Monday night,
tuesday night, thursday night,so not full-time like it is now.
So it was very much somethingyou did after work and or study.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So were you paid a salary while a footballer enough
to like live?
No, you were at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
No, so it was almost semi-professional then it was
like a part-time job.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Unless you were maybe a Dermot Berriden.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, that's right.
And even Dermot I mean heworked in the media at the same
time and, as I said, Hawthornehad a rule that you had to work
and or study.
So even if it had been enoughto survive on, you weren't
allowed to just do that.
And the reason for that isscientifically you actually
(15:55):
perform better when you're doingsomething alongside your sport.
But then the other part of itis it does prepare you for
whatever happens once you retireor once you are retired.
Most of the time you don't getthe choice.
So the science is pretty clearthat it's a really good thing
for your sport and yourperformance to do something else
in conjunction with the sport.
And then, of course, you'repreparing for life after sport.
(16:17):
So you never know how long yourcareer is going to last.
I think the average now is aboutthree and a half years.
The average when I played wasfour years, so it's actually
come down a bit.
So I went off to university,did a marketing degree, and the
reason I chose marketing wasbecause I figured whatever
business I get into, everythingneeds marketing and because dad
(16:39):
sort of had it in his genes andhe was in that field.
I'd seen the power of beingable to sell and the power of
being able to market and Ithought whatever business I
choose to get into, eventually,when footy finishes, whenever
that might be it's going to needsales and marketing.
That'll be a really good broadskill set to have, no matter
(16:59):
what I get into Any product orservice needs a distribution
strategy.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, so you were studying.
You finished your studies whileyou were playing still At
Hawthorne, yeah.
Did you do any part-time workin sales and marketing?
Can you talk us through that?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Sure yeah so I worked for a PR and sports promotions
firm which was owned by theperson that was also my player
agent, a fantastic guy by thename of Danny Finlay.
Danny was, and still is, agreat friend, but also a really
interesting person.
He was a very well-knownmusician in the 60s, so he was
(17:39):
in a band called MPD and it wasMike, pete and Danny.
Danny was the drummer, pete wasthe guitarist and Mike was Mike
Brady of Up there Kazali, andOne Day in September, fame.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Well, we're actually having Mike Brady at the FAAA
Grand Final lunch this yearthere you go.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
I haven't even announced it, so there you go.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, there's a good little promo.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Announce it first.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah.
So Danny was in that band, sohe'd been in the show business
area for a long time and hereally had this fantastic
business that did a lot of workin the horse racing and all the
horse racing game really was themain thing.
So I worked in that businessfor about three years until I
(18:22):
moved to Brisbane.
And then I mean he was workingon my contract, so he knew what
it meant if not that thebusiness was ever going to fall
down because I was moving away.
So I worked with Danny and thatbusiness was called Raceplay.
I worked with them until theend of 1994, then moved up to
Brisbane and up there.
(18:42):
So one of the things that wasfunny to me at the time was I
had said to Brisbane I'll playfootball.
I'm really, you know, reallyexcited about playing football.
But I've got a marketing andsales and PR background.
I'm really keen to work, youknow, for a good company up
there whilst I'm playing footy.
But I'll tell you the thingthat I don't want to do and
(19:05):
that's sell signage at the Gabba.
You know the home ground of theBrisbane Bears and, as fate
would have it, that's exactlywhat they offered me and I said
this is exactly what I told youI don't want.
So, as it turned out, Ianswered an ad in the.
This is a very old-fashionedstory, but I answered an ad in
the paper.
There was an ad for a PR firmthat were looking for an account
(19:26):
executive and I applied for itand I got the job.
And the fact that I was afootballer was not only not a
positive, it was actually anegative, because it meant if
I'm playing against West CoastEagles, I've got to fly from
Brisbane to Perth.
I'm going to need to miss daysof work, or a day at least.
So I had to sell myself extrahard because I said, look,
(19:50):
hopefully I'll be able to makeup for the time lost when I am
there.
But I've sort of come from thisbackground.
I love what you're all aboutand I'd love to work with you.
But you do need to understandthere'll be times when I've got
to go to training or I've got togo interstate and that's going
to need to be a bit of a balancethat you need to be comfortable
with, or this is not going towork.
(20:11):
And they made a brave decisionand they put me on.
So I worked there for thebetter part of two years and
loved it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And how did you find balancing being a full-time
professional AFL player?
I assume that was at that point.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
No, it still wasn't full-time at that stage.
We would get there in 99, whichwas my last year, so at this
point it was still.
I mean, it was getting morefull-on, but not full-time.
So I was working pretty much afull-time job and this was the
thing.
So when people talk to me andothers about taking too much on
(20:51):
and how do you cope withmultiple aspects to your life, I
think back to that time where Ihad a wife, three young kids,
just bought a house, moved to astate where initially I knew
nobody, had no history withBrisbane whatsoever as in the
club, but nor the city Didn'tknow anyone in Brisbane.
(21:11):
I knew a couple of blokes in thefooty club, but that was
because they played at Hawthorne.
One was our runner, team runner, but hardly knew anybody.
And then I took on thisfull-time job.
So you are juggling a lot, butit was fantastic.
I absolutely loved it and I wasthe only male.
So this PR firm had two teamsand everyone was female except
(21:34):
for me.
So I was a bit of an oddity inthat I was the only male, but
also because I played footy,there was an extra degree of
interest in who the hell is thisguy yeah, and I imagine at the
time footy in Brisbane probablyis not what footy in Brisbane is
today Very low profile likebaseball is in Australia.
(21:55):
Everyone knows it's bigsomewhere, it's just not big
here.
That's what it was like inBrisbane with AFL, so it was a
bit of a.
It was really interesting forme, but the thing that I kept on
focusing on was I had toperform at work, regardless of
what I did outside of thatoffice.
I had to perform for ourclients.
(22:16):
So we had clients like Safeway.
We had a charity which wasmultiple sclerosis.
We worked with a whole range ofinteresting clients.
One of the most interesting onewas and initially I wasn't
happy about getting this client,but I led the charge on this
one the Bible Society, and theyhad a new version of the Bible
(22:39):
that they wanted to release.
It was more Australianized andmore modern language.
So we ended up doing a reallygood brainstorming session on
this and I was so happy with theresult so we turned it into a
comedy sketch and, rather thanyou know, thou Shalt Not Steal,
(23:01):
which is, you know, theold-fashioned version, we turned
it into Don't Nick Stuff theAussie version and then what we
did was we approached.
We sent it out to all the FMradio stations with the comics
on air in Breakfast Radio, whichare everywhere, and what
normally happens in the PR worldis you send out a media release
and you're the one who has tochase them to get any story or
(23:23):
any traction with publicity.
We had the opposite impactPeople were haunting us, wanting
to get us on air.
So what we ended up doing wasputting up one of the people
from the Bible Society, who wasan archbishop and a very
conservative man and, look totheir credit, they bought into
the concept because we said wehave got a concept here that may
(23:47):
scare you, but hear us outbefore you say no.
And we said your intention hereis to sell copies of your Bible
.
We're going to help you getpublicity for it and it's going
to be known when people walkinto a bookstore, which again is
an old fashioned concept in away.
When people walk into abookstore and they see this
(24:07):
Bible, they're going to haveheard about it on the radio.
So it's going to help withkeeping it top of mind.
And, as it turned out, we won agolden target award from the
Public Relations Institute ofAustralia because this went
absolutely crazy, and so we werereally proud of our client
because they had taken a leap offaith pardon the pun and they
(24:28):
sold way more versions of theBible than they had hoped for,
because people were talkingabout it and the comedians loved
it, they had a ball with it, soit was fun and I loved doing
that.
And then I'd leave the office,go to training and the thing
that the combination of the twothat I loved was my mind when I
was at work.
It was totally engrossed inwhat I was doing and then I'd
(24:51):
say so you guys, I've got to getto training.
So I'd typically leave early andI'd hop in my car, drive to
training and then I've got toswitch on and think about
kicking the footy and having funwith my teammates, and I hadn't
thought about footy hardly atall through the day, other than
I've just got to make sure Ileave at the time that I need to
, so I'm not late.
But other than that, I wasfocused on work when I was at
(25:14):
work and I was focused on footywhen I was at footy and that was
really helpful.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, and that's great that you share that where
you have that.
You know you have otherpriorities outside of just
football.
Obviously you didn't have achoice at that time because you
were semi-professional.
Yes, even like myself likegoing to work and the work I do
very focused and can bestressful at times.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
And I love going to the footy club on Tuesday night
and not thinking about work.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's a release, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And you're just there with your mates having a kick.
Yeah, and that's what it'sabout.
Obviously a different level.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Same principle the same
Speaker 2 (25:44):
principle just having something that switch off or
the focus elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It's really important .
Yeah, it is really important.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So thank you for sharing.
So now let's talk about yourcurrent business and what you
currently do.
Can you share the name of thatcompany and what that involves?
No problem.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So it's called Vest Advisory, as in V-E-S-T, and we
specialize in successionplanning.
So I don't know whether you'veseen the miniseries Succession,
but it's one of the great shows.
It's all about a family thatdoesn't do succession and all
the problems that they suffer asa result, and they're a high
profile family they're very wellknown in the show at least.
(26:22):
And so we help families andbusiness owners deal with the
issue of succession.
And that could be businessowners that are wondering what
to do with their business,whether they sell it, whether
they pass it on to the nextgeneration, whether they might,
or one partner might, buy it,the other one, they might sell
it together, whether it's amanagement buyout what makes
(26:46):
sense for the business, whatmakes sense for the owners, and
so on.
And then there's successionplanning with families, which
could include what's going tohappen with the kids in terms of
inheriting money from mum anddad.
Have we got wills and powers ofattorney and executorships and
trusteeships in place?
What about keeping the moneywithin the family if there's a
(27:07):
divorce in the family?
So there are ways and means ofdoing that, and it's it's all
those, um, all those issueswhich are quite um, you know,
touch, that can be touchysubjects, they can be emotional
and they're very confidentialand you know they can be very um
very hard topics to actuallyvisit.
And, as we continue to say topeople, the topics of money,
(27:30):
death and family dynamics ontheir own are big topics.
You throw them in together andit's no wonder plenty of people
put it off and don't actually gothere.
So what we do is encourage ourclients to A think about it and
B talk about it, and the onething that we do say to people
is, whether you do it with VestAdvisory or someone else, it's
(27:55):
really good practice to do itwith an independent organization
, or we've got a client whocalls it the independent umpire,
and sometimes you are an umpire.
You're an umpire, you're acoach, you're a part
psychologist, you're a guide,you're a mediator.
You're a umpire, you're a coach, you're a part psychologist,
you're a guide, you're amediator.
You're a mediator sometimes andyou help.
Ultimately, you're there tohelp people make decisions and
(28:16):
you might pull on a range oftools to do that, but really
it's about holding people'shands, making sure they've got
all the tools at their disposalto make sure they can make good
decisions, and you leave them toit and then give them guidance
and support where they need it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So what made you from PR go to being a succession
advisor?
Is there another role you hadbetween the two that helped you
lead due to what you do today?
Correct.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, that's the middle part of the story.
So I finished up in the PRworld and look, footy was
getting more and more full onand by the time 1999 came around
it was full time.
So a friend of mine was workingwith the Financial Planning
Association at the time in quitea high role and he was staying
(29:11):
with us in Brisbane and he livesin Melbourne, still does but he
was on a business trip toBrisbane and we were having a
beer on the back deck of ourhouse at the time and he said
what are you going to do whenyou finish playing footy?
And I said I don't know, butit'll be my own business.
That's the only thing that Iknow.
And he said, yeah, but what?
What business?
(29:33):
And I said I honestly don'tknow.
I'm completely open to what itcould look like and because he'd
had this great exposure to thefinancial planning world, he
said I reckon you should have alook at financial planning.
He said trustworthiness isreally important.
Doing a good job for clients isultimately what they're after,
so that's really important.
And he said the other thingthat's important is to be able
to attract customers, clients.
And he said you've reallyalready got one and three
(29:55):
covered as in trustworthinessand being able to attract
clients.
You're already naturally goodat that.
But he said the only thingyou'd need to work on is the
second one, which is being ableto do a good job.
And he said that's going tocome down to two things One
study and two, experience.
You're going to need to work inthe field and he said why don't
you go and research it foryourself?
(30:16):
I'll give you some names ofsome industry leaders who I
respect.
And because he was quite highup in that world, he had access
to some fantastic people andshout them a coffee and find out
what they think and get theirthoughts.
Do your own, dd.
So I did all that and at the endof that process decided yeah,
I'm really interested in thisfield and I'd always been
(30:38):
interested in business.
As I said, owning my ownbusiness was part of that, but
I'd always loved business.
I was pretty good at maths.
I enjoy economics, maths, thebusiness subjects and politics,
and at uni I'd done all thosesubjects as well in a business
degree and I thought this sortof sits in pretty comfortably
(30:58):
with me Love helping people andI thought I really like this
field.
I didn't know much about it andat that stage, so this is 99.
This field I didn't know muchabout it and at that stage, so
this is 99.
Although it was somewhat anestablished industry, it was
still very much a cottageindustry as I saw it, and the
one thing that stood out to mewas the way that people were
(31:19):
remunerated, predominantly atthat stage, was via commission,
and the people that Iinterviewed, almost to a T, said
this is not where this industryis headed, it's headed to
fee-for-service and thosebusinesses were charging that
way.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And also, when you talk about commission, that's
commission within a product.
So the end client doesn'tactually know and you, from my
understanding, you don'tactually have to disclose how
much you're earning.
Well, at that stage they didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That became law later on and so on, and you did need
to disclose it.
I mean, my view is why wouldn'tyou disclose it?
Be transparent with yourclients, at any rate.
What I clearly discovered,thanks to these industry leaders
who shared their wisdom with me, was that this is going to be a
really important industry Atthe moment.
At that time it was a cottageindustry, but it had a lot of
(32:08):
potential and it's definitelygoing to head to fee for service
and I actually thought thatmade a lot of sense and I
thought why wouldn't you chargea fee for your service if you
provide a good one, like lawyers, like doctors?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
like accounts.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
People expect to pay People expect to pay for a good
service.
It's value You're providingvalue, value, you're providing
value.
So, long story short, I did afinancial planning diploma by
correspondence and that waswhilst my footy career.
That was my last year in footy,at least at professional level,
and then I finished that offwhen we moved back to Melbourne.
(32:42):
I worked in a few roles but Ifound out my sweet spot was
business development.
No surprise, the marketingbackground sales out.
My sweet spot was businessdevelopment.
No surprise, you know themarketing background sales,
marketing, pr.
Business development is thenext best thing.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I used to call myself the brochure delivery man the
BDM, and also work being a partof a team.
Yes, Right you have to buildrelationships.
You do Because if you're notmates off the field, I think
it's hard to perform on thefield.
It is If you want to get a kick, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So, yeah, I basically worked out fairly quickly that
my because there are so manyroles within that industry and I
realised, look, I'm not atechnical person, I'm a people
person.
So I'm going to focus on thepeople.
And the people need help, sothey need to know where to go
that they can trust.
Back to my mate's analogybefore where can they trust and
who's going to do a good job?
So I partnered up with a firm,donahue Financial Planning and
(33:38):
this was in the early 2000s whenI'd moved back from Melbourne,
and my role was to introduce newclients to them.
I became their BDM.
So I did that for a while andthe owner of that business
because he knew that I wantedand I kept on hounding him,
saying you know, I really wantto own.
Would you sell your business tome, you know?
Just cheekily.
And he said honestly, if youwant to run your own financial
(34:01):
planning, wealth managementbusiness, you're going to have
to spend some time on the toolsactually producing the advice.
And I said that makes sense tome.
But where would you do that?
Where would you suggest?
He said go to one of the bigbanks.
They will train you.
You won't have to worry aboutclients because they've got
millions of them and you'll haveplenty to work on and they will
(34:22):
come in the door.
You won't even have to findthem.
And that's exactly what I did.
So I went and worked with ANZ,and it was during the GFC.
So I walked into the PrestonBusiness Centre for ANZ on Bell
Street, preston.
I inherited a client base ofabout 250 small to medium
business owners and some higherend individual clients.
(34:43):
And it's fair to say that,because the GFC was in full
swing, there were a lot ofscared customers and I'd
inherited the phone from theprevious advisor.
And people are ringing me orthey thought they were ringing
him, but I was answering.
They were ringing and abusingthe hell out of me for losing
all their money.
(35:03):
And, apart from getting a soreear, I lost my voice trying to
explain to them.
Listen, firstly, I've never metyou.
Secondly, you haven't lost allyour money.
Thirdly, why don't you come in,bring your accountant, bring
your wife, bring whoever youlike, and let's have a down to
earth, sensible discussion aboutthis, because there's a way
(35:24):
through this that's actuallygoing to be really good for you.
And so I just did that withevery client.
And what was really interestingto me was.
It was a great life lesson.
It was like the chicken littlemoment.
The sky was falling in forthese people.
And when they came in, it gaveme time to have a look through
their files and in every singlecase they were categorized as an
(35:50):
aggressive investor, whichmeant they should be wanting to
buy more stuff when markets weregoing down, which they did
severely during the GFC.
So I said to them look, one oftwo things is happening here
You've either beenmiscategorized as an aggressive
investor you should be aconservative investor, so that's
on us if that's the case oryou're just scared, and I said
(36:10):
my feeling is so.
I listened to their responsesand in every single case they
were just scared, which is fine.
We all have moments where wedoubt ourselves or we doubt
things, particularly whenmarkets are going down and the
media is having a field day,scaring the hell out of
everybody.
I love it.
I love it.
That's what sells papers andgets you to watch the TV and
listen to the radio.
(36:30):
And I don't know whether youcan recall that time, fabian,
but I remember waking up duringthe GSC, and I would wake up to
talkback radio on AM and thelead story on the news for weeks
was how much the share markethad tanked in America overnight.
(36:50):
That's what the news wastelling us every morning.
So of course the news wastelling us every morning.
So of course people were scared.
So part of the role even thoughI'm not a technical person and I
kept saying, look, in terms ofwhat you're invested in, let's
park that decision for a latertime.
But let's just talk aboutbasics here.
(37:11):
You're either scared or you'vebeen miscategorized.
I think it's the former.
And then I got the feedback theaccountants are listening to
what I'm saying.
That came along with my clientsand they're going yeah, it
makes sense.
And and and everybody calmeddown.
It was, it was a really greatlife lesson.
Bit of assurance, bit ofassurance.
And they realized, yeah, youknow what I am doing?
A chicken little, I'm justscared the fuck.
(37:39):
The sky's going to fall in andit's probably not.
And one of the ways that I gotthem to realize that this was
the case was I'd say look, I cansee from your balance sheet
here you own a house worth $2million and you've got a share
portfolio that used to be worth$2 million and right now, on
paper, it's valued at 1.2.
So on paper it's had an$800,000 adjustment, 1.2.
So on paper it's had an$800,000 adjustment and you are
saying to me you want to sellall your shares.
(38:04):
Now just park that discussionfor a moment.
What would you do if your house, all of a sudden, you were told
it's not worth $2 million today, it's only worth 1.2.
Would you sell it or would youhang on to it?
And every single person said,well, I'd hang on to it, I'd
wait for the market to go up.
And I said that's exactly whatyou should do with your shares.
It's exactly the same principle.
You're just looking at them asdifferent things.
They're both assets and you'rejust looking at it because
you're scared One's got datapricing, one doesn't.
(38:25):
That's right.
Yeah, one's more liquid andone's not, but the principle's
the same.
That's an asset, they're assets, and you're just scared.
Don't do something silly justbecause you're scared.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and is that dealing?
Working during the GFC as afinancial advisor, dealing with
those clients?
Has that helped you in yourrole today?
Oh, a hell of a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I mean it was part psychology, you're part coach,
you're part mentor, you're partcoach, you're part guide, you're
all kinds of things, and you'vegot to be able to whack some
way, depending on the need andif you understand your client
and you listen properly and youwatch their body language,
that's why I got them to come in.
I mean, zoom wasn't really athing at the time and let me
(39:13):
tell you, the phone is not agood way to talk to people who
are really, really scared.
So I said, come in, it'll giveme time to think about and look
at your situation.
Let's get to know each otherbetter.
Bring in whoever you like,bring in your whole family if
you want, but let's talk aboutthis rationally and let's go
through it.
So it's helped me.
I mean now, with the successionplanning discussions, we're
(39:35):
dealing with emotionalsituations.
Quite often we're dealing withemotional topics.
We're dealing with, as I said,those topics before money, death
, family dynamics and multiplestakeholders as well.
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it'sthe fear of the unknown what's
going to happen if?
And you can have plans for allkinds of eventualities.
But nothing's more, I guess,assuring than having plans for
(39:59):
all of those things and then youcan work out which way you
actually decide to go, dependingon how you feel at the time,
because we've got to be flexibleas well.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, you talked about balance.
You've always had multiplethings, you're always doing
multiple things, you want tokeep active and you know talk
about best advisory and you'realso the president of the
Hawthorne Football Club.
So how much time do you spendwith the Hawthorne Football Club
?
What's your involvement?
Can you share some insights onthat?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, sure.
So I got elected at the end of2022 and I'd been on the board
previously, but not as president, and the role of president is
much more time like amazinglymore time-consuming than being a
director.
And I'd been football directorpreviously, and that was fairly
involved in its own right, butfor a number of reasons, the
(40:53):
role initially was incrediblytime-intensive.
I got elected and my electionwas in contrast to what the
board wanted at the time, so Iguess that was a hostile
election.
I didn't have any handover, Ididn't have any induction.
I just had to pick up thepieces that I decided were the
(41:15):
most important to pick up.
There was no handbook, so I waslearning on the job, and not
only that.
I needed to get to know myfellow board members, my fellow
directors.
I needed to get to know all thesenior executive.
I needed to get to know thestaff.
I needed to get to know thefootball department and a whole
number of other stakeholdersthat comprise a footy club,
(41:36):
including sponsors and coteriegroups and commercial partners
members.
There's a whole litany of areasin a football club, as you know
, so I had to get to know all ofthose people pretty quick,
smart, and so that needed a lotof time.
There were a lot of coffees had, there were a lot of one-on-one
conversations, there were a lotof meetings, there were a lot
(41:59):
of discussions, and so thatbecame very full on and I'd sold
my wealth management business.
So this was the other part ofthe bit.
So post ANZ, I set up my ownfirm with a colleague from ANZ
and we ran that for about 11years and then sold it, and
that's when I decided I'dspecialize in succession
planning.
But so when I sold that business, I had a period of time where I
(42:23):
worked with the company thatbought it and that ended up
being close to 18 months, andthat was during COVID.
So that gave me time to thinkand reflect about what I really
wanted to focus my energies onbusiness-wise think and reflect
about what I really wanted tofocus my energies on
business-wise.
And at the same time I felt thecalling to put my hand up for
president at the HawthorneFootball Club.
(42:45):
And I did know, if I gotelected, that at least I'd have
a bit of time that I could spendto do things properly.
Because, a I'd sold my businessand, b I hadn't made clear
plans on what I was going to donext.
So there was a period of timethere of a few months where I
didn't have a working role, so Icould literally spend whatever
(43:06):
time I needed to on the club.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Because, from my understanding the role as
president, that's not a paidposition.
No, it's voluntary.
So a lot of people like myself,prior to having a discussion
with you, would just assumeyou're getting paid a really
nice salary.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
People ask me how's your job going at Hawthorne?
I nicely, I hope it's nice.
I nicely correct them and sayit's not a job, it's a voluntary
role.
My job is in my business, butit's certainly a very important
role.
But every chair slash presidentand director of every football
club or every AFL football clubis a volunteer, unpaid volunteer
(43:43):
.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
So you talked about earlier on in the podcast around
when you first started atHawthorne how you had to have a
job or study.
Can you talk to me about thecurrent Hawthorne Football Club,
which I assume is a lot biggerthan what it was when you joined
in terms of members, and howsuccessful the team has been,
(44:06):
even in recent years, and thisyear included?
Is that still a thing?
Where do players part of yourrole as a president or as a
football club?
Do you enforce players toensure they have another job or
they do study?
Would you talk us through that?
Speaker 1 (44:26):
please Well look.
I think the first difference topoint out is it is now very
full-time, so they have onemandate.
The players have one mandatedday off a week, so during that
day it's not forced upon them,but they're strongly encouraged
to study and or get some workexperience around their football
(44:48):
commitments.
So that's in, I guess, inreference to the fact that not
only is it good for thempost-career, to be honest, when
they're playing footy they'renot wanting to think about
what's good for them post-career, they want to know what's good
for their career.
So, as I said before once, theyrealize well, actually, by
(45:12):
having something else toconcentrate on and focus on and
develop myself in, that willactually help me on field, and
so that's quite a powerful toolthat clubs and players can tap
into.
But look, there's a wholesection within our club that is
dedicated to player development.
So we have a player developmentmanager and a player
(45:33):
development team.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So we talk about player development that's off
the field.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Off the field yeah, so look, any single thing that
could help a player with theiron-field performance they have
access to, but I'm talking aboutoff-field here, which is study
and or work.
So there are things set up forthem that they can explore.
The AFL Players Association hasan allocated amount of money
(46:02):
that they siphon from the TVrights effectively money that
the AFL gives to them orprovides to them and they
allocate that money to playerswho want to study, for example,
and the way it works is you'llbe reimbursed for the cost of
your studies when you pass asubject or subjects.
You basically apply for aneducation grant and it's
approved, subject to yourpassing the subjects, which is a
(46:23):
really smart way to do it.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And most corporate businesses do the same yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, it's a great way to do it.
So the players can tap intothat, and most of them are doing
something Nearly all of themare doing something, if not all
of them and that's a greatplatform that they can utilize
whilst they're playing football.
And then the other side of it,too is and I'm really passionate
(46:48):
about this helping young people.
And what I would call eliteperformance advice, which I
provide to people as well, isbeing a bit of a sounding board
and saying look, any time youwant to have a chat, because
I've come through the playingroute.
I've got a story to tellplayers.
I've been in your boots, mate.
(47:09):
I've been in your shoes.
I know what it's like to play.
I know what it's like to playand study.
I know what it's like to play,study and work and have a family
as well and have a family andit will help you.
It will help you play betterfooty and of course, it will
help you post-football and alsohelping players plug into the
right kind of plug them into anetwork.
(47:30):
So if they've got an interestin a particular field, introduce
them to people that are expertsin that field.
And who interest in aparticular field?
Speaker 2 (47:37):
introduce them to people that are experts in that
field and who knows what kind ofmentoring relationships can be
established in that way too,yeah, Well feel free if any of
the Hawks players want a careerin finance and want to have a
chat, always open to having achat and a coffee.
Yeah, fantastic.
So what advice do you talkabout the players?
What advice do you give them?
Now, when you talk aboutsounding board, is it go out
(47:58):
there, learn, develop, try notto be too ingrained in just
football.
Would that be the biggest pieceof advice?
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I mean, I'm big on encouraging them to learn.
So, yes, do a formal course,but there's a lot of sense in
being interested and reading asmuch as you can, learning as
much as you can.
You know, when you go to a, ifyou have to do an appearance at
a business or a networkingfunction, or even just a footy
(48:29):
function, go and meet some newpeople.
Ask them what they do, why dothey do it?
Why do they love doing whatthey do?
How do they start theirbusiness?
Why do they love employingpeople?
Why do they love producing theservice or the products they do?
And get to know people and beinterested in others.
They'll be interested in youanyway because you play footy
right, but find out about themand that will make you stand out
(48:52):
.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, is it hard to do that?
Because if you're a footballer,I don't know, say an example,
someone that's really good, willDay, who plays for you guys,
who's an exceptional player,when he goes to an event,
everyone wants to talk to him.
Yes, so how do you reverse theconversation to ask about, you
know, fabian Ruggieri from Riverof Criminal?
(49:14):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Well, what I do is I?
Well, it goes back to what Isaid before.
I have a genuine interest inpeople, and people love telling
you their story.
It's their favourite thing totalk about.
So ask them about it.
And what you find is, the moreyou do it, the more you get into
the habit of being better at itsorry, of doing it more often
and then you get better andbetter and better.
(49:38):
And what you find is people'sstories are genuinely
interesting and they lovetelling it.
So ask them about it, but keepasking the deeper questions.
So, oh, that's interesting.
How did you get into that?
All right, and then there'soften a great story behind how
the hell?
they sometimes's justcoincidence, sometimes it's fate
, sometimes it's.
I bumped into a guy at a pub,yeah, and my life went in a
(49:59):
different direction.
I mean my story about financialplanning.
My mate on the back deck over abeer you should consider this.
So I'm matt lally is his name.
I mention him always becauseI'm so grateful to him.
If if he hadn't have asked methe question, I wouldn't have
had that discussion.
So it was his question of methat drew out of me enough
(50:20):
information to at least explorewhat he was talking about.
So ask people questions, andsome great advice I was given
years ago by a financial plannerwho a mutual friend introduced
me to was most people spend toomuch time trying to be
interesting because they talkabout themselves.
But he said the reality is themost interesting people are
(50:43):
interested.
They ask questions of others.
They want to know becausethey're curious and they ask
legitimately curious questionsbecause they actually want to
know.
So it's not just about askingquestions, it's about listening
to the answers and understandingwhy that answer was important
to that person yeah, genuinelyinterested.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
And when I did my MBA we learned about five whys.
Yep, I'm sure if you've heardof that before.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Keep asking deeper, Like why did you do that?
Okay, well, why did you do that?
Why?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
did you do that?
Yeah, and just to get down to,ultimately, the, the root reason
as to to why you did that andlearn deeper so but thank you
very much for coming on thefinance podcast.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation.
Likewise, I feel like we couldkeep talking for another hour
but I'm mindful of time weshould maybe in uh or hopefully
all the best uh with festadvisory it seems like you're
(51:36):
already super successful and, uh, all the best with the hawks
this year.
I hope that for you.
I hope they go all the way.
Not so much very kind, not somuch for me, but uh, thank you
very much.
I've appreciated the discussionlikewise.
Thanks, baby.
Thanks for listening this week.
Stay tuned for our next episodeand keep up to date with us by
(52:00):
following the Finance Friendspodcast on Instagram and TikTok
Plus.
Connect with us and our guestsover on our LinkedIn page, all
linked in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
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