March 31, 2025 • 26 mins
Meet Chris Clayton, Head of Distribuition at L1 Capital. Chris shares his journey with us in this episode from starting as a manager at McDonalds when he was 18, to becoming a CEO of a funds management firm by 29.
This conversation peels back the curtain on success and servant leadership in finance, with Clayton explaining how important empowerment is in a team.
For aspiring finance professionals, Clayton reveals his four-part framework for evaluating talent: commercial skills, technical knowledge, relationship abilities, and creativity. Whether you're just starting your finance career or leading a team, Clayton's insights on balancing technical expertise with humanity offer a masterclass in modern leadership.
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Finance Friends with Fabian, where we
give our listeners anopportunity to be a part of our
conversation with financialservices industry leaders.
Hear their stories, thechallenges they've overcome and
the invaluable advice they havefor anyone interested in the
financial world.
Keep up to date with us byfollowing Finance Friends
Podcast on Instagram and TikTok.
(00:27):
Welcome to Finance FriendsPodcast, and today we have Chris
Clayton with us.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you, chris.
I'm really laughing already atthe intro, fabian, so thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, it's a pleasure .
It's a pleasure.
So let's tell us a little bitabout yourself, Chris.
What's your current role at themoment?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I look after sales and marketing at L1 Capital.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And L1 Capital.
It's a bit of insight to L1Capital if our listeners aren't
aware of L1 Capital.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, we run roughly $8 billion of assets for clients
all around the world.
We've got offices in Melbourne,Sydney, London, Miami and New
York and we run strategiestypically hedge fund styled long
short equities convertiblebonds.
We do have some vanilla longonly global equities, but it's
more return seeking investments.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, and what does your role involve?
What's the head of sales?
What does it involve?
I imagine there's lots ofelements to your role.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I might not take head of sales, fabian.
We're not trying to be thebiggest, we're trying to be the
best.
So my role is more aboutlooking after the customers that
we've got and attracting somenew customers who understand
what we're doing, but we're nottrying to take over the world in
terms of being the biggest fundmanager.
We want to keep our assets to alevel where we can achieve good
(01:44):
returns, and that's reallyimportant.
So I've sort of pushed back abit about head of sales.
More head of customers, I think, is probably a better way of
thinking it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, so head of client engagement, and obviously
you lead a team.
So how many people do you lead?
And that's obviously acrossmarketing and client engagement,
or client specialists.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, we've got two or three people in marketing and
I suppose eight or nine, maybeten even in clients.
Now we have customers in brokerland with our listed investment
company, private wealth,unadvised, private clients,
advisors, institutions.
So we generally have a personor two across each of those
channels and then a few inmarketing supporting the general
(02:26):
effort of communication.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So your role is a combination of leading the team,
strategising, dealing with theportfolio managers.
Can you talk us through whatdoes a day-to-day look like?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, we're a fairly small business 50, 60 staff
globally and head office inMelbourne, where we have just
over 30 staff, and so it's avery.
It's a very.
It's slightly bigger than asort of family environment, but
it's a small business with nored tape and no bureaucracy, and
really my job is the conduitbetween the investment teams and
the operations teams and ourclients, and so I like to think
(03:05):
about the way in which we managestaff, as I'm really there to
support the people who lookafter our customers.
It's not really aboss-to-employee relationship,
but we've got all these peopleout in the field talking to
people who have invested theirmoney with us, and if my guys or
my girls have a concern andneed something, it's my job to
help them with that informationor solve the problem to make
(03:26):
them more valuable to ourcustomers.
So, yeah, I really like tothink about that a little bit.
In reverse.
Servant-led leadership would bewhat the theory would say, but
definitely I feel like I workfor the people who work for me,
if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, it does.
So what would be the biggestchallenge of your role?
What are the challenges of yourrole?
Is it managing differentstakeholders, I'd say, given you
deal with the investment team,the operations team, as well as
the client engagement team?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, there's new challenges every day.
We've been very fortunate inthat our business has grown very
quickly.
Over the last five years We'vesort of grown from around about
$3 billion of client funds to uptowards $8 billion now, and
that's given us a lot ofchallenges around the growth.
Positive issues like how do wekeep up with the inquiries that
(04:18):
are coming in, how do we giveenough attention to each of the
different strategies, and sothere's a lot of growth pains,
but, as I said to you before,they're really good problems to
have.
And then you have the differentpersonalities that we have
managing money, and I think weall know it takes a certain kind
of character to manage moneysomeone who's totally committed
(04:39):
to understanding that and thatprovides some quirks at times.
And while we've got reallyfantastic, brilliant people,
they all like to be communicatedwith in a slightly different
fashion.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
So making sure we manage that appropriately and
keeping the people who managethe money informed about what's
going on with their customersyeah, so, based on what I've
just heard, it seems likecommunication is important,
important skill in your role,stakeholder engagement skills,
as well as empowering people togo out there and best service
(05:10):
your clients.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, I think they're all great points In my role and
I think in the customer roleand in funds management, you
have to be a great communicatorand, again, in sort of a
leadership role, you want toempower people.
That attracts better people tocome and work for you.
I don't think anybody wants tobe micromanaged.
People want to be left to dotheir job and do it as well as
they can, and that takes a greatdegree of trust and empowerment
(05:34):
from a leadership position.
I think the only other thingthat we didn't touch on there is
just technical knowledge.
Like our world has changed sosignificantly over the last
decade that I think to besuccessful in my role or any
sort of client role, even amarketing role, you need to have
very strong technicalcapabilities.
These days, the number ofpeople in sales and marketing
(05:55):
has dropped I don't know by 30%over the last decade and
therefore the quality of peoplehas increased.
So if you do want to besuccessful and you want Fabian
to reach out to you, youprobably have to be a good
communicator and technicallyproficient.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, and so obviously you're in a very
senior position and you've doneexceptionally well and
representing one of the bestfund managers in Australia.
How did you get to where youare today?
So I'd be keen to hear backfrom the start.
What did you study atuniversity and when did you?
(06:30):
And, more importantly, when didyou feel that you wanted to
work in finance, and was theresomeone that influenced that
decision at an early age?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, I'm not sure about the second half of that
question, but I always wanted towork in finance.
It's just something that I wasinterested in from a very young
age.
I was the way I grew up inBrisbane, and when I grew up,
you could finish school at 16.
So I finished school at 16 andthe consequence of that was
going to university at 17.
I had no idea, so I dropped outof university straight away
(06:59):
pretty much, and I was workingat McDonald's.
So I went and worked atMcDonald's full time as a
manager for a while.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Wow, well, will you share something, colin?
I worked at McDonald's for aperiod of time as well.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I think it's a great training ground.
I've had a lot of people workfor me over the years or with me
over the years who've worked atMacca's.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Best operational business in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and you learn to work hard and you learn about
processing, learn processinglimited customer service, and
you know that was a veryformative time for me before I
went back.
And then I sort of went thereand started working for a bank
and ended up working at SunSuper.
I worked for a really wonderfulguy, don Luke, who ended up
going on to be chair of QIC anda range of other things, and you
know Don sort of taught meabout superannuation before I
(07:40):
moved to the very fast versionof this, moved to Sydney to work
for Colonial First State withChris Cuff and, more importantly
, john Pearce, and so I had agreat career there where John
backed me and moved me aroundand moved me up and down the org
chart to do different things inthe organisation.
And that was a reallyinteresting point actually, when
he actually asked me to movedown the org chart to do
something, and at the time Ifelt like that was a demotion.
(08:03):
But it ended up being a reallygreat piece of experience and he
helped me become the CEO ofAcadian, which is an investment
firm that was owned by Acadian,owned by Colonial First State.
I stayed there for sort ofseven odd years before I sort of
tried to just turn what to doagain and ended up here.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So let's touch on that.
You talk about going down theorg chart or chain, so maybe
talk us through that experience.
What does that actually mean?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, I was an institutional BDM at the time.
I guess this is sort of early2000s and, for those who have a
long enough memory, it was whenGreg Perry was at Colonial First
State, who was the icon of allAustralian equity investments.
We were taking sort of 80% ofthe market on Australian
equities and balanced funds atthe time.
And then Greg resigned orretired, as people do, and we
(08:54):
started to lose a lot of moneyfrom our retail business, which
at the time was called MasterFunds, more the platforms.
And so John asked me to movefrom being a senior role in the
institutional business to godown and work in a mid-level
role in the retail business totry and help stop the flow, the
outflow from our master trustbusiness.
And you know, it's not toodissimilar to the.
(09:15):
It's much bigger but notdissimilar to the old one story.
Colonial First State grew soquickly and this is before First
Choice we're having abillion-dollar month, so the
business was just hiring peopleand hiring people and as a
result, when performance turnedand Greg left, we were short on
processes and we were short onbeing repeatable in our sales
and client business.
So I went down there with theencouragement of John and we
(09:37):
sort of set about setting up aprocess to make sure we were
communicating and servicingproperly.
And look, there was a greatgroup of people at Colonial
First State in the time frame.
Chris Arati obviously goes onto be an iconic individual at
Magellan, but there's lots ofthem and if you look around the
market now, there's many peoplefrom that era that have similar
positions to me across theindustry and they're all doing
(09:59):
very well.
So it wasn't a big surprisethat we were able to sort of
change that around.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, and so you went from.
So Arcadian you mentioned, sothey're an American firm.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, Quant Equities.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, quantitative Equities, and that's so you went
there and joined them as theCEO.
And what age were you when youjoined as the CEO of that firm?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I would have been 29, .
I think I was 29 when I wentover there.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So how was that?
Because I couldn't imaginethere'd be too many people that
would be sub-40, that would be aCEO of a funds management firm.
Yeah, what were the biggestlearnings?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh, I made some great mistakes early on because you
can imagine, I was atestosterone-fuelled, impetuous
little 29-year-old I say now asa much, much older person but I
had very good people around meand they knew what they were
doing, as in they knew they'dput a 29-year-old person in to
lead the business.
And so, you know, John Pearcewas on the board.
(10:56):
Graham Hand was on the board.
Graham subsequently passed away, a wonderful guy, a doyen of
the industry.
John moves on to go to asia andbrian bisker came on the board,
as well as bruce bonnie haityfor those you don't know he's.
You know he's the chair ofphilanthropy australia and
probably one of the most ethical, intelligent gentlemen in the
industry.
And so I was surrounded byreally good people who kept a
(11:17):
close eye on me and it was uh.
Yeah, I made some crackingmistakes, but we had
unbelievable success as well atthe business.
I mean the business.
They lent us $10 million tostart the business from working
capital and we paid that back innine months and, yeah, it was a
really phenomenal experience.
Learning how to manage olderand smarter people than you, you
(11:39):
know, was very beautiful for mein my career.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So can you go through , maybe just touch on a mistake
you've made, and because at thetime you obviously learn the
most from making mistakes andyou grow the most when you're
challenged, is there an examplethat comes to mind that you've
learnt from and maybe that ourlisteners might make that
(12:05):
mistake or may have made asimilar mistake and realise that
it's okay, you will learn andyou will grow from it?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, you should not give me a category, because we
could have a mistake in everycategory, but I think the point
you made at the end there isprobably where I will finish.
Mistakes are just mistakes andyou will move on from them.
And when you make one, you feellike it's the lowest of the low
.
And, as someone said to me overthe years, the highs are never
as high as you think and thelows are never as low as you
think.
And that is a very, very truestatement.
(12:42):
When you're making a mistake,it's just a mistake, just move
on.
And I would say most of themistakes I made in the early
days of my career were aboutmoderate or slight exaggerations
.
I'll get back to you by then.
Or I'll do this there or I'llachieve this, and always putting
a little bit of gloss on it.
And I think when you're a youngperson, then maybe when you're
in sales, you've got a tendencyto say that I'm definitely going
to win.
That customer or this client'svery happy not going to leave,
and it's that.
That as a category of error isone which I think you'll learn
(13:05):
as you get older.
It's much, much better to beclear, honest and even
conservative with the peoplethat you deal with, because
people make decisions on theback of your comments.
So, as a category, my advice toeverybody would be just slow
down and say exactly what'sgoing on and let's together work
out the correct way forward.
(13:27):
That little bit of exaggerationcauses errors.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, and it's classic.
I speak to a lot of advisorsand one thing I hear a lot of is
you know, that person never gotback to me.
They said they were going toget back to me and they never
did.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I've said from a very early age, my attitude to
client business is to win theservice game.
You want to be the best peopleto deal with and that way, if
someone's got a problem orthey've got, you know, a new
piece of business, they're notsure where to place.
They want to deal with peoplethat are great to deal with,
they're intelligent, they'reresponsive, they're efficient,
(14:02):
they're effective.
You want to win the servicegame and so forever I've had
that motto and if there's onesort of tip I'd give to anybody
that works in clients stop usingvoicemail, stop using text,
answer the phone and talk topeople.
Stop using voicemail, stopusing text, answer the phone and
talk to people.
People prefer to becommunicated with, and verbally
and in person is the best way.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, and I think that has been lost a little bit.
Well, probably coming back alittle bit more around in-person
events, but we did see that,especially over COVID.
I think some people can beguilty of it.
Oh, that person's too busy.
I'll just send them a textmessage.
Just be proactive, get on thephone that might be suitable for
you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
That might help you.
It might be easy for you tosend a text.
That doesn't mean that theperson that you're liaising with
wants to be dealt with via text.
Text is what?
Short message service?
In other words, I haven't gottime or I can't be bothered to
speak with you and to give youthe time that you require for
your particular issue.
I'll send you a short littletext.
You need to be adaptable.
(15:04):
There are some people wheretext is quite perfectly suitable
and so, fabian, if youresponded to me, I know I can
send you a text.
You've got a lot of thingsgoing on and you're probably
pretty happy with that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But that's not the answer for everyone.
I guess it depends on whatlevel of service you ultimately
want to provide, that's rightand, by the way, you'll be
gauged on that too.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
If you're a fast, quick texting person, that's the
kind of relationship thatyou're going to build.
If you've got the time to go inand see someone and have a good
chat to them and spend half anhour, you'll build longer, more
genuine, legitimaterelationships.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And your role at the moment.
Just coming back to it,obviously, over your career
you've gone from client servicesin institutional clients to
retail, to CEO of a fund.
Now you're head of clientengagement, you could say, at L1
Capital.
What have you most enjoyedthroughout your career in
(16:01):
different roles?
So maybe let's talk about yourcurrent role.
What do you most enjoy aboutyour role?
And if there's one thing youcould change, what would it?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
be.
Oh look, I think it's reallyeasy.
What I enjoy most about L1 isthe people I work with.
We've got fantastic peopleacross the board and a complete
commitment to performance, whichis customer outcomes.
Thinking back to the start,when I sort of pushed back
against you, saying it was thehead of sales we're trying to
keep our assets to a point wherewe can really perform and
(16:31):
therefore all of ourconversations are about
performance and therefore we'revery customer-centric and that's
a comment that I use too oftencustomer-centric, but we have
great people that only careabout performance, and that's a
great outcome for our customers.
If there was one thing I couldchange, there's a lot of travel
(16:52):
in my world at the moment as wesort of grapple with the growth,
and I'll be happy to get off aplane and just settle down in
one place.
That would be lovely.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So let's talk about that.
You obviously home is Brisbane.
You spent a fair part of yourcareer in Sydney, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I lived in Sydney for nearly 10 years and
then I commuted to Sydney weeklyfor probably eight years and
now it feels like I commute toMelbourne.
I think I came to Melbournemore than 30 times last year, so
I'm back travelling a bit, butthat's to do with me.
I want to be in Brisbane, myfamily's in Brisbane.
(17:31):
It's the best city in Australiaby a mile, and so that's my
active choice.
And I might make a differentchoice, as my kids sort of don't
need me as much, but yeah, atthe moment Brisbane's definitely
home, and let's touch on thatbecause obviously, to get to
where you are and your careeryou've had there has to be.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know there's clearly sacrifice involved.
Talk to me about that sacrificeand how you, you know, have
been able to manage having threekids that have now well growing
up.
I think your three kids are,you know, almost self-sufficient
to a degree.
So how have you managed that?
Because you know it can bedifficult for leaders to manage
(18:11):
family life as well asprofessional life.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, let's just say I've made lots of mistakes again
.
Like it's a challenge, you know, family obviously comes first,
in front of everything and I'mhappy to say that on your
recorded podcast, family is waymore important than L1 and I
love L1, so it tells you sort ofhow I feel about the family.
It is this, you know, mentalinternal trade-off between
(18:36):
wanting to do well and set anexample and provide your kids
with the opportunities that youwant them to have, moving
forward but all the time alsokeeping them grounded and level
and not spoiled for sort ofbasic language.
But it's an awful trade-off tomake and I think as long as you
start with what's the rightthing to do with the family and
(18:58):
then you build your career andyou work stuff around, that
you'll be in a pretty good place.
Like if there's a marginaldecision to be made, the
family's got to come first everysingle time.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, and it seems like our one is that way, like
family's very important.
I know Mark Raffi and Joel, thesenior people within the
business.
I I know Mark Rafi and Joel,the senior people within the
business.
I believe they've all got bigfamilies.
It's like a kid-a-thon.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, the guys, the principals, Mark Rafi and Joel,
are all sort of mid to late 40sand I think between them there's
12 children.
So they definitely understandfamily first and we've set our
business up in a way thateverybody works incredibly hard
but there's absolutely no likeif somebody wants to pop out and
(19:41):
watch their daughter in balletat 11 o'clock on a Tuesday, it's
celebrated People.
When they get back, peoplewould say how was it?
How'd she go?
Rather than where have you been?
So that sort of attitude that'sled by those guys leads to a.
The business is incrediblysuccessful and people work
harder than you know.
People work hard, but thefamily is definitely part of
(20:02):
what we do.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And on the outside of work.
I know you're a great golfer.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I just hired someone who's scratched, so I feel a bit
demoralised now.
I'm not the best golfer at L1.
I'm not even sure I ever was,but I'm definitely not now.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, you're a pretty good golfer, so you spend a bit
of time on the golf course andyou enjoy, you do a bit of.
You've built probably somestrong relationships over a game
of golf as well.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, look, I enjoy activity.
I always want to be doingsomething to be physically fit.
It makes you mentally better.
You definitely work out througha few errors that when you're
exercising and you're sweatingor you're doing something, it
helps with your mental capacity.
(20:48):
There's just no doubt.
As you get older you definitelylearn that Exercise should be a
key part of anyone's routine.
Golf's probably my thing, butthat's only because when you get
old and I'm certainlyapproaching the older thing you
can't play football, you can'trun, you tear a calf muscle or a
hamstring in five seconds.
So it's a great old person'ssport, golf.
I always play it with my son aswell, so it's good for young
(21:10):
people.
But it's one of those thingsthat you can play with friends
into the twilight years, whichI've got a few years to go on.
But I'm heading that way.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm not there yet with the golf.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You're still pretending you can run around.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I still try and run around not very fast but still
try and run around.
But it's interesting becauseobviously with Live Now it's
attracting younger people andyou know they're celebrating
more like a party I saw inAdelaide last week or the week
before.
Someone got a hole in one andeveryone threw their beers at
the golfer, which you wouldnever see in golf five years ago
.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
No, I think that's been an interesting transition,
not too different to like WorldSeries cricket and Test cricket.
You know, if you take somethingout of that, it's that don't
keep doing things the same waythat you've always done them and
have enough self-reflection orreflection to be able to look at
what you do and maybe totallychange it.
Sorry, I know you wanted me totalk about golf, but it just
(22:02):
makes me think about everysingle year at the end of the
year when we finish business,even if it's been successful.
I just want to start again.
Is that the right org chart?
Is that the right way of doingit?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Should we be approaching customers that way?
Should we message itdifferently every single year?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
challenge yourself to do something differently and
hopefully do it better.
Yeah, well, if you're notmoving forward, you're going
backwards.
Yeah, as a very competitiveworld, and you know you've got a
lot of friends in the industry,but each of them is trying to
strive to be better than theother one, and so it's
incredibly competitive yeah, andwhat?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
last question is before we wrap up If someone is
maybe a young person that's justfinished their finance degree
and wants to get into work for afund manager in maybe a
client-facing role, or wants tobe a CEO of a funds management
firm probably not by 29, maybe,say 40, what advice would you
(22:55):
give them?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You do all of my recruiting, so you know how I
think about people.
I think that there's sort offour metrics that I think about
for the person.
You've got commercial skills,technical skills, relationship
skills and creativity.
So, if I just start at thestart, commercial skills are
being able to say yes and no.
I think a lot of people want tosay yes.
Should we sponsor them?
(23:17):
Yes, yes, yes.
Learning when to say no as wellis a good set of skills and you
can be taught that.
Technical skills in my worldthat's investments, pes,
convexity, all sorts of thingslike that, and you can learn
that.
Relationship skills you've gotto come with that.
That's what mum and dad teachtheir kids, and it's very
difficult to teach people tohave a different attitude to
(23:39):
relationships and people otherthan what they learned growing
up.
So you come with that.
You should be investing inyourself, but it's a difficult
one to change.
And the last one is creativity.
Some people just come withcreativity.
They like art, they like music,they look at things differently
and those people often are theX factor, like if you can find
someone who's commercially good,technically good, good people,
(24:01):
person, and they're creative,they really can be people that
make a very significant impacton a business.
You don't have to havecreativity.
There's a lot to be said forthe engineering types or the
process types, like I am.
That gives a lot ofrepeatability, but they're the
four things I think about.
That gives a lot ofrepeatability, but they're the
four things I think about.
Again, you should be reflectingabout where you sit, on
(24:24):
whatever metrics you think areimportant, and you should be
investing in yourself and tryingto work out how do I become
better as a person and I don'tmean that for profit reasons, I
mean how do I become better as aperson for the people I deal
with at home, at work customers,how do I just become generally
a better person for society andcommunity?
And with that, by the way,generally comes promotions.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, and respect yourself and, ultimately, people
around you.
Yeah, respect you too.
So no, that's really insightful.
Thank you very much for comingin this morning.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I wish you'd spent this time trying to find the
candidates that I'm looking for,but thanks for having me anyway
.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, now that our candidates maybe have a better
understanding of you and morepeople would love the
opportunity to work with you.
But thank you very much, chris.
It's been a pleasure.
I've obviously known you for afew years now and really enjoyed
our relationship.
So thank you and for ourlisteners, tune in to where you
can listen to our podcastSpotify and Apple and keep an
(25:23):
eye on our socials.
So thank you, chris.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
My pleasure, Fabian.
Thanks for having me.
Cheers.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
Welcome to Finance Friends with Fabian, where we
give our listeners anopportunity to be a part of our
conversation with financialservices industry leaders.
Hear their stories, thechallenges they've overcome and
the invaluable advice they havefor anyone interested in the
financial world.
Keep up to date with us byfollowing Finance Friends
Podcast on Instagram and TikTok.
(00:27):
Welcome to Finance FriendsPodcast, and today we have Chris
Clayton with us.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Thank you, chris.
I'm really laughing already atthe intro, fabian, so thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, it's a pleasure .
It's a pleasure.
So let's tell us a little bitabout yourself, Chris.
What's your current role at themoment?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I look after sales and marketing at L1 Capital.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And L1 Capital.
It's a bit of insight to L1Capital if our listeners aren't
aware of L1 Capital.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, we run roughly $8 billion of assets for clients
all around the world.
We've got offices in Melbourne,Sydney, London, Miami and New
York and we run strategiestypically hedge fund styled long
short equities convertiblebonds.
We do have some vanilla longonly global equities, but it's
more return seeking investments.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, and what does your role involve?
What's the head of sales?
What does it involve?
I imagine there's lots ofelements to your role.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I might not take head of sales, fabian.
We're not trying to be thebiggest, we're trying to be the
best.
So my role is more aboutlooking after the customers that
we've got and attracting somenew customers who understand
what we're doing, but we're nottrying to take over the world in
terms of being the biggest fundmanager.
We want to keep our assets to alevel where we can achieve good
(01:44):
returns, and that's reallyimportant.
So I've sort of pushed back abit about head of sales.
More head of customers, I think, is probably a better way of
thinking it.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Okay, so head of client engagement, and obviously
you lead a team.
So how many people do you lead?
And that's obviously acrossmarketing and client engagement,
or client specialists.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, we've got two or three people in marketing and
I suppose eight or nine, maybeten even in clients.
Now we have customers in brokerland with our listed investment
company, private wealth,unadvised, private clients,
advisors, institutions.
So we generally have a personor two across each of those
channels and then a few inmarketing supporting the general
(02:26):
effort of communication.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So your role is a combination of leading the team,
strategising, dealing with theportfolio managers.
Can you talk us through whatdoes a day-to-day look like?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, we're a fairly small business 50, 60 staff
globally and head office inMelbourne, where we have just
over 30 staff, and so it's avery.
It's a very.
It's slightly bigger than asort of family environment, but
it's a small business with nored tape and no bureaucracy, and
really my job is the conduitbetween the investment teams and
the operations teams and ourclients, and so I like to think
(03:05):
about the way in which we managestaff, as I'm really there to
support the people who lookafter our customers.
It's not really aboss-to-employee relationship,
but we've got all these peopleout in the field talking to
people who have invested theirmoney with us, and if my guys or
my girls have a concern andneed something, it's my job to
help them with that informationor solve the problem to make
(03:26):
them more valuable to ourcustomers.
So, yeah, I really like tothink about that a little bit.
In reverse.
Servant-led leadership would bewhat the theory would say, but
definitely I feel like I workfor the people who work for me,
if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, it does.
So what would be the biggestchallenge of your role?
What are the challenges of yourrole?
Is it managing differentstakeholders, I'd say, given you
deal with the investment team,the operations team, as well as
the client engagement team?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, there's new challenges every day.
We've been very fortunate inthat our business has grown very
quickly.
Over the last five years We'vesort of grown from around about
$3 billion of client funds to uptowards $8 billion now, and
that's given us a lot ofchallenges around the growth.
Positive issues like how do wekeep up with the inquiries that
(04:18):
are coming in, how do we giveenough attention to each of the
different strategies, and sothere's a lot of growth pains,
but, as I said to you before,they're really good problems to
have.
And then you have the differentpersonalities that we have
managing money, and I think weall know it takes a certain kind
of character to manage moneysomeone who's totally committed
(04:39):
to understanding that and thatprovides some quirks at times.
And while we've got reallyfantastic, brilliant people,
they all like to be communicatedwith in a slightly different
fashion.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
So making sure we manage that appropriately and
keeping the people who managethe money informed about what's
going on with their customersyeah, so, based on what I've
just heard, it seems likecommunication is important,
important skill in your role,stakeholder engagement skills,
as well as empowering people togo out there and best service
(05:10):
your clients.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah, I think they're all great points In my role and
I think in the customer roleand in funds management, you
have to be a great communicatorand, again, in sort of a
leadership role, you want toempower people.
That attracts better people tocome and work for you.
I don't think anybody wants tobe micromanaged.
People want to be left to dotheir job and do it as well as
they can, and that takes a greatdegree of trust and empowerment
(05:34):
from a leadership position.
I think the only other thingthat we didn't touch on there is
just technical knowledge.
Like our world has changed sosignificantly over the last
decade that I think to besuccessful in my role or any
sort of client role, even amarketing role, you need to have
very strong technicalcapabilities.
These days, the number ofpeople in sales and marketing
(05:55):
has dropped I don't know by 30%over the last decade and
therefore the quality of peoplehas increased.
So if you do want to besuccessful and you want Fabian
to reach out to you, youprobably have to be a good
communicator and technicallyproficient.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, and so obviously you're in a very
senior position and you've doneexceptionally well and
representing one of the bestfund managers in Australia.
How did you get to where youare today?
So I'd be keen to hear backfrom the start.
What did you study atuniversity and when did you?
(06:30):
And, more importantly, when didyou feel that you wanted to
work in finance, and was theresomeone that influenced that
decision at an early age?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, I'm not sure about the second half of that
question, but I always wanted towork in finance.
It's just something that I wasinterested in from a very young
age.
I was the way I grew up inBrisbane, and when I grew up,
you could finish school at 16.
So I finished school at 16 andthe consequence of that was
going to university at 17.
I had no idea, so I dropped outof university straight away
(06:59):
pretty much, and I was workingat McDonald's.
So I went and worked atMcDonald's full time as a
manager for a while.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Wow, well, will you share something, colin?
I worked at McDonald's for aperiod of time as well.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I think it's a great training ground.
I've had a lot of people workfor me over the years or with me
over the years who've worked atMacca's.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Best operational business in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, and you learn to work hard and you learn about
processing, learn processinglimited customer service, and
you know that was a veryformative time for me before I
went back.
And then I sort of went thereand started working for a bank
and ended up working at SunSuper.
I worked for a really wonderfulguy, don Luke, who ended up
going on to be chair of QIC anda range of other things, and you
know Don sort of taught meabout superannuation before I
(07:40):
moved to the very fast versionof this, moved to Sydney to work
for Colonial First State withChris Cuff and, more importantly
, john Pearce, and so I had agreat career there where John
backed me and moved me aroundand moved me up and down the org
chart to do different things inthe organisation.
And that was a reallyinteresting point actually, when
he actually asked me to movedown the org chart to do
something, and at the time Ifelt like that was a demotion.
(08:03):
But it ended up being a reallygreat piece of experience and he
helped me become the CEO ofAcadian, which is an investment
firm that was owned by Acadian,owned by Colonial First State.
I stayed there for sort ofseven odd years before I sort of
tried to just turn what to doagain and ended up here.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So let's touch on that.
You talk about going down theorg chart or chain, so maybe
talk us through that experience.
What does that actually mean?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, I was an institutional BDM at the time.
I guess this is sort of early2000s and, for those who have a
long enough memory, it was whenGreg Perry was at Colonial First
State, who was the icon of allAustralian equity investments.
We were taking sort of 80% ofthe market on Australian
equities and balanced funds atthe time.
And then Greg resigned orretired, as people do, and we
(08:54):
started to lose a lot of moneyfrom our retail business, which
at the time was called MasterFunds, more the platforms.
And so John asked me to movefrom being a senior role in the
institutional business to godown and work in a mid-level
role in the retail business totry and help stop the flow, the
outflow from our master trustbusiness.
And you know, it's not toodissimilar to the.
(09:15):
It's much bigger but notdissimilar to the old one story.
Colonial First State grew soquickly and this is before First
Choice we're having abillion-dollar month, so the
business was just hiring peopleand hiring people and as a
result, when performance turnedand Greg left, we were short on
processes and we were short onbeing repeatable in our sales
and client business.
So I went down there with theencouragement of John and we
(09:37):
sort of set about setting up aprocess to make sure we were
communicating and servicingproperly.
And look, there was a greatgroup of people at Colonial
First State in the time frame.
Chris Arati obviously goes onto be an iconic individual at
Magellan, but there's lots ofthem and if you look around the
market now, there's many peoplefrom that era that have similar
positions to me across theindustry and they're all doing
(09:59):
very well.
So it wasn't a big surprisethat we were able to sort of
change that around.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, and so you went from.
So Arcadian you mentioned, sothey're an American firm.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, Quant Equities.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, quantitative Equities, and that's so you went
there and joined them as theCEO.
And what age were you when youjoined as the CEO of that firm?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I would have been 29, .
I think I was 29 when I wentover there.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So how was that?
Because I couldn't imaginethere'd be too many people that
would be sub-40, that would be aCEO of a funds management firm.
Yeah, what were the biggestlearnings?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Oh, I made some great mistakes early on because you
can imagine, I was atestosterone-fuelled, impetuous
little 29-year-old I say now asa much, much older person but I
had very good people around meand they knew what they were
doing, as in they knew they'dput a 29-year-old person in to
lead the business.
And so, you know, John Pearcewas on the board.
(10:56):
Graham Hand was on the board.
Graham subsequently passed away, a wonderful guy, a doyen of
the industry.
John moves on to go to asia andbrian bisker came on the board,
as well as bruce bonnie haityfor those you don't know he's.
You know he's the chair ofphilanthropy australia and
probably one of the most ethical, intelligent gentlemen in the
industry.
And so I was surrounded byreally good people who kept a
(11:17):
close eye on me and it was uh.
Yeah, I made some crackingmistakes, but we had
unbelievable success as well atthe business.
I mean the business.
They lent us $10 million tostart the business from working
capital and we paid that back innine months and, yeah, it was a
really phenomenal experience.
Learning how to manage olderand smarter people than you, you
(11:39):
know, was very beautiful for mein my career.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So can you go through , maybe just touch on a mistake
you've made, and because at thetime you obviously learn the
most from making mistakes andyou grow the most when you're
challenged, is there an examplethat comes to mind that you've
learnt from and maybe that ourlisteners might make that
(12:05):
mistake or may have made asimilar mistake and realise that
it's okay, you will learn andyou will grow from it?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, you should not give me a category, because we
could have a mistake in everycategory, but I think the point
you made at the end there isprobably where I will finish.
Mistakes are just mistakes andyou will move on from them.
And when you make one, you feellike it's the lowest of the low
.
And, as someone said to me overthe years, the highs are never
as high as you think and thelows are never as low as you
think.
And that is a very, very truestatement.
(12:42):
When you're making a mistake,it's just a mistake, just move
on.
And I would say most of themistakes I made in the early
days of my career were aboutmoderate or slight exaggerations
.
I'll get back to you by then.
Or I'll do this there or I'llachieve this, and always putting
a little bit of gloss on it.
And I think when you're a youngperson, then maybe when you're
in sales, you've got a tendencyto say that I'm definitely going
to win.
That customer or this client'svery happy not going to leave,
and it's that.
That as a category of error isone which I think you'll learn
(13:05):
as you get older.
It's much, much better to beclear, honest and even
conservative with the peoplethat you deal with, because
people make decisions on theback of your comments.
So, as a category, my advice toeverybody would be just slow
down and say exactly what'sgoing on and let's together work
out the correct way forward.
(13:27):
That little bit of exaggerationcauses errors.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, and it's classic.
I speak to a lot of advisorsand one thing I hear a lot of is
you know, that person never gotback to me.
They said they were going toget back to me and they never
did.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I've said from a very early age, my attitude to
client business is to win theservice game.
You want to be the best peopleto deal with and that way, if
someone's got a problem orthey've got, you know, a new
piece of business, they're notsure where to place.
They want to deal with peoplethat are great to deal with,
they're intelligent, they'reresponsive, they're efficient,
(14:02):
they're effective.
You want to win the servicegame and so forever I've had
that motto and if there's onesort of tip I'd give to anybody
that works in clients stop usingvoicemail, stop using text,
answer the phone and talk topeople.
Stop using voicemail, stopusing text, answer the phone and
talk to people.
People prefer to becommunicated with, and verbally
and in person is the best way.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, and I think that has been lost a little bit.
Well, probably coming back alittle bit more around in-person
events, but we did see that,especially over COVID.
I think some people can beguilty of it.
Oh, that person's too busy.
I'll just send them a textmessage.
Just be proactive, get on thephone that might be suitable for
you.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
That might help you.
It might be easy for you tosend a text.
That doesn't mean that theperson that you're liaising with
wants to be dealt with via text.
Text is what?
Short message service?
In other words, I haven't gottime or I can't be bothered to
speak with you and to give youthe time that you require for
your particular issue.
I'll send you a short littletext.
You need to be adaptable.
(15:04):
There are some people wheretext is quite perfectly suitable
and so, fabian, if youresponded to me, I know I can
send you a text.
You've got a lot of thingsgoing on and you're probably
pretty happy with that.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But that's not the answer for everyone.
I guess it depends on whatlevel of service you ultimately
want to provide, that's rightand, by the way, you'll be
gauged on that too.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
If you're a fast, quick texting person, that's the
kind of relationship thatyou're going to build.
If you've got the time to go inand see someone and have a good
chat to them and spend half anhour, you'll build longer, more
genuine, legitimaterelationships.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And your role at the moment.
Just coming back to it,obviously, over your career
you've gone from client servicesin institutional clients to
retail, to CEO of a fund.
Now you're head of clientengagement, you could say, at L1
Capital.
What have you most enjoyedthroughout your career in
(16:01):
different roles?
So maybe let's talk about yourcurrent role.
What do you most enjoy aboutyour role?
And if there's one thing youcould change, what would it?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
be.
Oh look, I think it's reallyeasy.
What I enjoy most about L1 isthe people I work with.
We've got fantastic peopleacross the board and a complete
commitment to performance, whichis customer outcomes.
Thinking back to the start,when I sort of pushed back
against you, saying it was thehead of sales we're trying to
keep our assets to a point wherewe can really perform and
(16:31):
therefore all of ourconversations are about
performance and therefore we'revery customer-centric and that's
a comment that I use too oftencustomer-centric, but we have
great people that only careabout performance, and that's a
great outcome for our customers.
If there was one thing I couldchange, there's a lot of travel
(16:52):
in my world at the moment as wesort of grapple with the growth,
and I'll be happy to get off aplane and just settle down in
one place.
That would be lovely.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So let's talk about that.
You obviously home is Brisbane.
You spent a fair part of yourcareer in Sydney, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I lived in Sydney for nearly 10 years and
then I commuted to Sydney weeklyfor probably eight years and
now it feels like I commute toMelbourne.
I think I came to Melbournemore than 30 times last year, so
I'm back travelling a bit, butthat's to do with me.
I want to be in Brisbane, myfamily's in Brisbane.
(17:31):
It's the best city in Australiaby a mile, and so that's my
active choice.
And I might make a differentchoice, as my kids sort of don't
need me as much, but yeah, atthe moment Brisbane's definitely
home, and let's touch on thatbecause obviously, to get to
where you are and your careeryou've had there has to be.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You know there's clearly sacrifice involved.
Talk to me about that sacrificeand how you, you know, have
been able to manage having threekids that have now well growing
up.
I think your three kids are,you know, almost self-sufficient
to a degree.
So how have you managed that?
Because you know it can bedifficult for leaders to manage
(18:11):
family life as well asprofessional life.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, let's just say I've made lots of mistakes again
.
Like it's a challenge, you know, family obviously comes first,
in front of everything and I'mhappy to say that on your
recorded podcast, family is waymore important than L1 and I
love L1, so it tells you sort ofhow I feel about the family.
It is this, you know, mentalinternal trade-off between
(18:36):
wanting to do well and set anexample and provide your kids
with the opportunities that youwant them to have, moving
forward but all the time alsokeeping them grounded and level
and not spoiled for sort ofbasic language.
But it's an awful trade-off tomake and I think as long as you
start with what's the rightthing to do with the family and
(18:58):
then you build your career andyou work stuff around, that
you'll be in a pretty good place.
Like if there's a marginaldecision to be made, the
family's got to come first everysingle time.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, and it seems like our one is that way, like
family's very important.
I know Mark Raffi and Joel, thesenior people within the
business.
I I know Mark Rafi and Joel,the senior people within the
business.
I believe they've all got bigfamilies.
It's like a kid-a-thon.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, the guys, the principals, Mark Rafi and Joel,
are all sort of mid to late 40sand I think between them there's
12 children.
So they definitely understandfamily first and we've set our
business up in a way thateverybody works incredibly hard
but there's absolutely no likeif somebody wants to pop out and
(19:41):
watch their daughter in balletat 11 o'clock on a Tuesday, it's
celebrated People.
When they get back, peoplewould say how was it?
How'd she go?
Rather than where have you been?
So that sort of attitude that'sled by those guys leads to a.
The business is incrediblysuccessful and people work
harder than you know.
People work hard, but thefamily is definitely part of
(20:02):
what we do.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And on the outside of work.
I know you're a great golfer.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I just hired someone who's scratched, so I feel a bit
demoralised now.
I'm not the best golfer at L1.
I'm not even sure I ever was,but I'm definitely not now.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, you're a pretty good golfer, so you spend a bit
of time on the golf course andyou enjoy, you do a bit of.
You've built probably somestrong relationships over a game
of golf as well.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, look, I enjoy activity.
I always want to be doingsomething to be physically fit.
It makes you mentally better.
You definitely work out througha few errors that when you're
exercising and you're sweatingor you're doing something, it
helps with your mental capacity.
(20:48):
There's just no doubt.
As you get older you definitelylearn that Exercise should be a
key part of anyone's routine.
Golf's probably my thing, butthat's only because when you get
old and I'm certainlyapproaching the older thing you
can't play football, you can'trun, you tear a calf muscle or a
hamstring in five seconds.
So it's a great old person'ssport, golf.
I always play it with my son aswell, so it's good for young
(21:10):
people.
But it's one of those thingsthat you can play with friends
into the twilight years, whichI've got a few years to go on.
But I'm heading that way.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm not there yet with the golf.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You're still pretending you can run around.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I still try and run around not very fast but still
try and run around.
But it's interesting becauseobviously with Live Now it's
attracting younger people andyou know they're celebrating
more like a party I saw inAdelaide last week or the week
before.
Someone got a hole in one andeveryone threw their beers at
the golfer, which you wouldnever see in golf five years ago
.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
No, I think that's been an interesting transition,
not too different to like WorldSeries cricket and Test cricket.
You know, if you take somethingout of that, it's that don't
keep doing things the same waythat you've always done them and
have enough self-reflection orreflection to be able to look at
what you do and maybe totallychange it.
Sorry, I know you wanted me totalk about golf, but it just
(22:02):
makes me think about everysingle year at the end of the
year when we finish business,even if it's been successful.
I just want to start again.
Is that the right org chart?
Is that the right way of doingit?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Should we be approaching customers that way?
Should we message itdifferently every single year?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
challenge yourself to do something differently and
hopefully do it better.
Yeah, well, if you're notmoving forward, you're going
backwards.
Yeah, as a very competitiveworld, and you know you've got a
lot of friends in the industry,but each of them is trying to
strive to be better than theother one, and so it's
incredibly competitive yeah, andwhat?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
last question is before we wrap up If someone is
maybe a young person that's justfinished their finance degree
and wants to get into work for afund manager in maybe a
client-facing role, or wants tobe a CEO of a funds management
firm probably not by 29, maybe,say 40, what advice would you
(22:55):
give them?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You do all of my recruiting, so you know how I
think about people.
I think that there's sort offour metrics that I think about
for the person.
You've got commercial skills,technical skills, relationship
skills and creativity.
So, if I just start at thestart, commercial skills are
being able to say yes and no.
I think a lot of people want tosay yes.
Should we sponsor them?
(23:17):
Yes, yes, yes.
Learning when to say no as wellis a good set of skills and you
can be taught that.
Technical skills in my worldthat's investments, pes,
convexity, all sorts of thingslike that, and you can learn
that.
Relationship skills you've gotto come with that.
That's what mum and dad teachtheir kids, and it's very
difficult to teach people tohave a different attitude to
(23:39):
relationships and people otherthan what they learned growing
up.
So you come with that.
You should be investing inyourself, but it's a difficult
one to change.
And the last one is creativity.
Some people just come withcreativity.
They like art, they like music,they look at things differently
and those people often are theX factor, like if you can find
someone who's commercially good,technically good, good people,
(24:01):
person, and they're creative,they really can be people that
make a very significant impacton a business.
You don't have to havecreativity.
There's a lot to be said forthe engineering types or the
process types, like I am.
That gives a lot ofrepeatability, but they're the
four things I think about.
That gives a lot ofrepeatability, but they're the
four things I think about.
Again, you should be reflectingabout where you sit, on
(24:24):
whatever metrics you think areimportant, and you should be
investing in yourself and tryingto work out how do I become
better as a person and I don'tmean that for profit reasons, I
mean how do I become better as aperson for the people I deal
with at home, at work customers,how do I just become generally
a better person for society andcommunity?
And with that, by the way,generally comes promotions.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, and respect yourself and, ultimately, people
around you.
Yeah, respect you too.
So no, that's really insightful.
Thank you very much for comingin this morning.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I wish you'd spent this time trying to find the
candidates that I'm looking for,but thanks for having me anyway
.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, now that our candidates maybe have a better
understanding of you and morepeople would love the
opportunity to work with you.
But thank you very much, chris.
It's been a pleasure.
I've obviously known you for afew years now and really enjoyed
our relationship.
So thank you and for ourlisteners, tune in to where you
can listen to our podcastSpotify and Apple and keep an
(25:23):
eye on our socials.
So thank you, chris.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
My pleasure, Fabian.
Thanks for having me.
Cheers.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.