August 7, 2025 • 38 mins
Grant Hackett's journey from Olympic gold medal glory to CEO of a $2 billion ASX-listed company offers a masterclass in high-performance mindset and leadership transition.
When Grant Hackett was 13 years old, he made a decision that would shape his entire life: he wasn't just going to the Olympics – he was going to win gold. This clarity of purpose drove him to become a three-time Olympic gold medallist who dominated the 1500m freestyle for 11 years. But what's truly remarkable is how he's applied that same championship mindset to transform Generation Development Group from a $50 million company to a nearly $2 billion enterprise.
The parallels between elite sport and executive leadership shine through Hackett's story. The margins in Olympic swimming are devastatingly small and this appreciation for detail and discipline informs his approach to business execution, where he focuses on consistent fundamentals while maintaining strategic clarity. His leadership philosophy emphasises creating teams with genuine purpose, clear objectives, and disciplined daily practices that accumulate toward significant achievements.
Want to learn how champion mindsets translate between worlds? Join us for this extraordinary conversation with one of Australia's most accomplished athletes turned business leaders.
Follow Grant Hackett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grant-hackett-oam-30820225/
Visit the Generation Development Group (ASX:GDG) website: https://www.wilsonsadvisory.com.au/
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here comes Brad Hackett, the most decorated
world champion ever, looking fora 15th medal.
Terrence was on a fight andHackett threw the arm in the air
as Kowalski arrives.
We're looking at 7.39.16, andhe's got it.
Brad Hackett, in world recordtime, wins the gold medal.
(00:21):
He's left a legend in his wake,and he's lost to win.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome back to Finance Friends, your personal
seat at the table with leadersshaping the financial world.
In this exclusive season, wemeet with high profile,
incredibly successful athleteswho achieve the greatest heights
on the sports field and are nowdominating the finance world
(01:03):
sports field and are nowdominating the finance world.
Today on the Finance Friendspodcast, we had no other than
Grant Hackett, three-time goldmedalist.
He's someone I watched as ateenager sitting on the couch
Sydney Olympics as a 13-year-old, cheering for Grant represented
(01:24):
Australia.
He is the ultimate athlete, theultimate professional.
He shares his story about beinga professional sportsperson and
transitioning into the world offinance and now being the CEO
of an ASX-listed company calledGeneration Development Group,
(01:45):
gdg.
He's inspiring.
This is a must listen to.
Good morning Grant, goodmorning Fabian.
Welcome to the Finance Friendspodcast.
How are you today?
Yeah, I'm very well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Well.
Thank you for coming in thestudio.
We've known each other for afew years now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, we've crossed paths on many occasions
actually, so probably my earlydays at Generation Life and GDG,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, so let's touch on that.
You're currently the CEO of notGeneration Life, the greater
company.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, the ASX listed business, which is GDG, and
we've got three businesses nowbeneath that which we didn't
back then, probably when we metaround 2017, 2018.
We've got Lonsec, which wedidn't back then, probably when
we met in around 2017, 2018.
We've got Lonsec, whicheveryone knows in finance, the
research and ratings business,and also Evidentia Managed
Accounts, which is now acombination of Lonsec Investment
Solutions as well as theEvidentia Managed Account
(02:36):
tailored portfolio solutions and, of course, the life company,
generation Life, which is big ininvestment bonds and also
lifetime annuities.
So, yeah, and I'm sitting upthere running the group entity
and, yeah, it's been a lot offun.
We've done it.
We've made quite a few movesover the last sort of 12 to 18
months and continue to growpretty sharply in each of our
segments, which is great.
But yeah, you're always sort ofparanoid about maintaining that
(02:59):
too.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, well, it's obviously being a listed company
.
You've got public investors,anyone can invest in the company
and the company has done reallywell and grown quite a lot
since you've been in control ofthe company.
So what are your focuses inyour current role, given there's
three large businesses withinthe group and also you are
(03:25):
responsible for being a listedcompany and answering ultimately
to shareholders?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Absolutely.
It's probably.
It's something I've done for along time now.
I think I've been doing thelisted company role since
October of 2018.
So I've spent a lot of timewith investors over the years
and a lot of them have been onthe journey with us as we do
various capital raises.
Obviously, new investors comein, particularly on the Insto
side, but a lot of our retailinvestors have done very well at
the stock I think I came in.
(03:51):
I think we were sitting around50 odd cents about 52 cents at
the time.
We're trading today close to $5.
So it's been a significantamount of growth, a lot of hard
work.
It's funny you kind of look atwhere we were and where we are
now and it's chalk and cheese.
We've gone from a $40, $50million market cap company to
almost a $2 billion business.
But I feel like we've built itbrick by brick and it's been an
(04:14):
amazing team in terms of thefocus around execution.
So we knew we had very goodproducts.
We knew we had a product thatwould probably sit well within a
portfolio for a financialadvisor, particularly in the
life company.
We had strong brand recognitionon the lawn sex side.
So we knew we had a realopportunity to be able to
turbocharge the growth of someof these assets if we focused on
(04:35):
the execution side and reallygot the sales and marketing
correct and and right leaders inplace as well.
That's absolutely critical toyou know, driving any sort of
successful outcome, particularlyas you grow as a group.
And for me now, I guess a lot ofmy focus just to, I guess,
answer your question in summaryreally probably 30% of the time
really is with investors now.
So when explaining the strategy, what we're doing, how we're
(04:57):
executing against that, talkingthrough our latest updates,
whether that's a quarterly, halfyearly or full year update so
there's a lot of time spent onthat.
When your register gets quitebroad, then the next probably
20% of time you're reallyfocused on strategy.
So what are you doing with theteam?
Are they executing that well?
What's the strategy that I'mlooking for, not just for the
next 12 months, but next threeyears, next three to five years?
(05:19):
Where do we want to be?
And having absolute clarity onthat's really important.
And then a lot of my time isspent really around the
execution of the business.
So working with the CEOs of thevarious assets, making sure
that they're aligned to thestrategic plan, helping and
supporting them and deliveringthat and then making sure that
we've got the right people onthe team.
(05:40):
So and then you've got tomanage all of your key
stakeholders around.
That, such as no-transcript anda bit of complacency or hubris,
(06:13):
can sneak into a business,particularly after such a period
of growth as well.
I've been through ups and downsin both business and personal
life and I know which side ofthat I prefer to be on.
So for me, I think the older Iget, the more paranoid I almost
get about performance andbusiness and making sure that
(06:33):
we're continuing not to deliver.
But I would love to be able todeliver in most parts of the
business above expectation.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and that's obviously why the business has
been able to grow so rapidlyover the last seven years since
you've been a part of it isbecause you've been able to
deliver performance beyondexpectation of the market.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I think so I think there's been.
You know, I think everyone kindof.
If you're willing to work inand on the business,
particularly in those early daysI think a lot of your teams see
that.
So you know I'd be on a planeevery week, sometimes every
second day, going out thereseeing financial advisors,
talking to dealer groups,forming new relationships as
part of the group, you know,educating the market on our
(07:12):
products, how they operate, andthen the whole team rallies
around that as well.
So if you're willing to leadfrom the front and do the hard
yards, they'll dig in andsupport as well.
And then you know everyonestarts to get rewarded around
that.
It feels good to be winning, itfeels good to get good results,
it feels good to get therecognition that they've
received and deserve as a team.
But you can also, you know,momentum can very quickly go the
(07:36):
other way and I've been on bothsides of that.
So I think for me, as I'vegotten older and more
experienced, I think I'mprobably pretty fortunate that
I've had that world of sportwhere there's sponsorship,
there's profile that comes withit, there's the glory.
You can do no wrong and I'veseen how that can come undone
quite easily as well.
(07:58):
So I think for me in business,regardless how big we got, it
wouldn't matter if we went froma $2 to a $20 billion business.
I think I'd still feel much thesame.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, so it'd be good to bring it back to the start.
So you grew up on the GoldCoast, is that right?
Or Queensland?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah, I was born on the Gold Coast.
So yeah, grew up there andmoved around Queensland a bit
because dad was a detective forthe Queensland Police.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Department.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
So he got transferred as he sort of got promoted
through that job and we ended upin North Queensland, in
Innisfail actually.
So that's probably my firstmemory.
We were at the Sunshine Coastjust before that, but Innisfail
is really where I got intoswimming, started school there
and yeah.
So I was very much from far,far north Queensland regional
area.
So I'm a true blue Queenslander, so to speak, or a true maroon
(08:46):
Queenslander, I should say.
But yeah, and started swimmingup there purely just because my
brother did, who's six and ahalf years older than me.
I was four, he was ten, andthen, yeah, we sort of built out
the swimming journey from there.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, and at what point in your as a child did you
realise or a teenager, thatit's likely that you're going to
become a professional swimmer?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's weird.
I always knew if I reallywanted something.
I always felt this as a kid.
I don't know why.
It might be blind confidence,but I always felt like if you
worked hard enough and youfocused on your goals, you could
really achieve anything thatyou want to.
And I made the decision when Iwas 13 that I was not only going
to go to the Olympics but I wasgoing to go there and win.
That was honestly my goal, andthe reason that was the case is
(09:33):
because Sydney got the 2000Games, so this was 1993.
And I just remember the hypearound that.
I was doing three sports.
I was doing the Surf LifeSaving Probably loved that the
most at that point in timeplaying rugby up in Queensland
and I was also doing swimming,but I could only go to the
Olympics for one of those sports.
(09:53):
So it wasn't the fact that I wascompletely in love with
swimming, it was more.
I wanted to go to the Olympicsand win and that Olympic gold
medal was the real pursuit andpurpose for me.
So I think then I laid down thefoundations.
I looked at what was theOlympic champion, the world
record holder in my event, doingat the different age groups.
So 13, 14, 15, 16 and beyondand, funnily enough, three years
(10:16):
after that, I became worldchampion in the 1500 metre
freestyle, which was my petevent, and didn't lose for 11
years after that.
So it worked out.
But I think the reason I didn'tlose is because I'm a bit like
I am now, but I think I'm evenmore so like this now and
comfortable about it is I wasnever as good as my last race.
I was always good as my nextone, and that was always my
(10:38):
focus as an athlete.
But 13 was probably thatdefining moment.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah so 13.
And you as an athlete, but 13was probably that defining
moment.
Yeah so 13.
And you said, at the age ofthree years later, you became
the, you were the world championfor 1500 metres and then from
there you didn't.
You were the best 1500 metreswimmer in the world for 11
years.
How did you stay on path andresilient and driven, and how
(11:07):
has that transitioned into yourcareer to date?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's funny because your vision changes, and it
needs to in business as well.
So for me, winning the Olympicswas everything.
I went to my first Olympics inSydney.
I just turned 20, came awaywith that Olympics with two gold
medals.
But the vision changed.
I wasn't the world recordholder yet in the men's
1500-meter freestyle.
Kieran Perkins, a fellowAustralian, still had that.
(11:33):
So I thought, well, I've got toget that mark.
So the next year I got that andbroke that by seven seconds.
And then I remember Alex Popoff, who's a very famous swimmer,
particularly in the 90s, saidyou know, you're good if you win
one Olympics, you're great ifyou win two and you're a legend
if you win three.
And so I kind of thought tomyself I'd like to be great.
(11:53):
So, I really wanted to be alegend.
I did go for three, but gotsilver in the last one.
So that vision really changedand I then competed in 2004 and,
had a partially collapsed lung,wanted to win three Olympic
gold medals.
That was my goal, was to stepup.
So my vision again changed andI was just motivated by being
(12:14):
better, trying to improve,seeing how much I could actually
give and where that took me,and seeing the other people
around me.
What they did was inspiring.
So I was in an era where MichaelPhelps was at his best, ian
Thorpe was at his best, kieranPerkins was at the tail end of
his career, so some real legendsof the sport over the last
century, literally.
(12:35):
And I was fortunate enough torace them all.
Peter Venn and Hoogan Bandsanother name that was quite big
globally in the sport.
So I think I just had so manypeople around me that just kept
lifting the bar all the time youfelt like you had nowhere to go
and even if I would win the1500, I might've finished second
in the 800 or the 400 toThorpey, and that really
(12:56):
motivated me to step up againand improve.
So, yeah, I think for me thatthe vision has to be.
It's not set, and I find thesame in business too.
We wanted to hit a few keymilestones along the way in
business and as soon as you hitthose milestones, you've got to
recreate the vision.
And I think, as soon as youdon't feel like you want to do
all the small little things, allthe little disciplines, you're
(13:17):
not feeling as paranoid as youused to, I think that's time to
move on.
And for me, I knew that afterthree Olympic games I was done.
I was happy with what I'd done.
In the sport I reflect on, Iwould always like to do more.
I don't think I'm completelysatisfied.
I think that's just part ofyour makeup, more than anything
else.
But I was ready to move intobusiness and I wanted to go into
something different.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, and at what point did you decide that?
So you said you've done threeOlympics.
Decide that, so you said you'vedone three Olympics.
You've world champion, recordholder, multiple gold medalist.
Were you studying during thattime or was it like a shut up?
I finished with swimming, nowit's time for business.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
No, I think well ahead, well ahead.
It's almost scary sometimes howfar I think ahead, so I
probably am very structured.
I'm more of a planner.
Five years out, I was meetingwith Rob Coombe, who's my
chairman of the group that I runright now, and Tim Bishop, who
was the CEO of Macquarie Bank inAmerica.
(14:18):
Sit down and talk what should Ibe doing right now?
I, tim Bishop, who was the CEOof Macquarie Bank in America,
sit down and talk.
What should I be doing rightnow?
I was studying commerce law atthe time, but to put myself in a
great position I knew I wouldretire after Beijing.
Three Olympics was as far as Iwanted to go.
I wanted to start my workinglife because I was close to 30
years of age.
So I felt like everyone had abit of a jump on me who got out
of uni in their sort of early tomid-20s.
Like everyone had a bit of ajump on me who got out of uni in
(14:39):
their sort of early to mid-20s.
So yeah, so I always had thatplan and then it was a matter of
the moment came where I'dalmost been global CEO at what I
was doing.
Right, like I was right at thetop of my game.
I was really well respected forit.
I'd done things in the sportthat people probably thought
were almost impossible ordifficult to do in the 1500
meter freestyle at points in mycareer.
(15:01):
And then I started working infinance and I went from being
the best in the world to youknow Collins Street on a Monday
morning not being the best atthe table.
And the sooner I realized thatthe better.
It put me instead to moveforward in my career because
kind of put the ego to the sideand just said, well, okay, if
I've got to do all the smallstuff, learn the skill I need to
(15:25):
do that now.
So I didn't actually think backto when I was at the peak of my
sporting career.
I actually thought about well,what did I do in those years
when I was 13, 14, 15, 16?
Because that's effectivelywhere I'm at right now in my
professional business career.
And so I thought about all ofthe objections I heard, all of
the noise that you had to cutthrough, the clarity that was
(15:45):
required on your goals and thededication to the process of
achieving those goals.
And for me that's what Ifocused on in business and I
think within two years Iprobably got myself into a
position where I was feelingpretty proud of what I was doing
and where I was going.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, and there would have been some lows during that
time.
What advice do you give forsomeone that might be
transitioning as a professionalsportsperson or is currently a
professional sportsperson that'sabout to make that transition
and going to go through thoselows?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
The best advice I can give is hang in there, because
you've got to go through aperiod probably a few months in,
maybe six or seven months inwhere you think, oh, this is not
for me.
And the reality is, if you're aprofessional sports person,
your name's well known, you'veretained some of your sponsors,
even post your sporting careeror some other commercial
opportunities outside of, Iguess, your day-to-day work.
It can probably give you thatoptionality.
(16:38):
A lot of people who don't havethe optionality are often more
successful.
Sometimes, when they don't havea plan B or something to fall
back on, they've got to stayfocused and remain in something
that's not necessarily makingthem feel great right now.
But you know, if you're able topersist and get yourself into a
certain position that you knowyou would enjoy the
responsibilities of thatposition or the opportunities
(17:01):
that it would bring.
So if there was a call out toany athlete, I would say persist
through those times and giveyourself an absolute, concrete
chance.
And that takes a few years todo that and you've got to be
willing to persist for a fewyears and I think then you've
got a new skill set, then you'vegot something else to offer,
then you can combine theleadership skills that you've
(17:21):
not only got from sport but inbusiness as well, and it can
really put you in the driver'sseat to create some pretty great
opportunities for yourself.
But you've got to be willing topersist through that difficult
initial period, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, and so you talk about transitioning and the
slow transition not necessarilyslow, because you were, you were
starting to make those, thoseconnections during your athlete
career, as a professionalathlete.
So where did you, where did youstart in the world?
Originally in the world offinance.
What were you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
So I was in a in the privatebank so I just started out with
a team there and worked with theteam and managing the customers
that we have within the privatebank, moved around to starting
a business in there that wecalled Alpha Sport and
Entertainment.
A lot of athletes make a lot ofmoney when they're younger,
don't necessarily know where toinvest it, don't necessarily
(18:16):
have a lot of great people whoare truly in their best interest
around them for thoseinvestments.
So we wanted to make sure thatwe had four different things,
those four key elements.
One was making sure they hadthe right relationship manager,
the right financial advisor, acredit policy to be able to
support them, because a lot ofthem don't.
They're not asset rich butthey're cashflow rich at that
(18:36):
particular point in time.
They might be on a five or$600,000 contract but not have
more than 20 grand in the bankbecause they've just signed that
for the next three or fouryears.
And then you want to make sureyou've got the right insurances.
So if they were to have acareer ending injury, and what
insurances they've got, ifthey've got a big mortgage or
some other liabilities that needto be paid out.
So we created a propositionaround those four areas and,
(18:58):
yeah, we ended up growing thatbusiness.
I think it had three-year KGARgrowth of about 70% plus, so it
was quite material.
I was doing my MBA post-sport aswell, so I did my executive MBA
as part of my thesis for that.
My final kind of project aroundcompleting that after two and a
half years was I created avalue proposition for
(19:19):
segmentation, so the mostprofitable segments for banking
and finance.
What are we doing todifferentiate ourselves within
each of those segments?
So you know mining, energy andresources, professional services
.
You know doctors and dentists,engineers.
You know people of similarprofiles and what's unique to
their particular industry orsector that you can offer that's
(19:41):
different from another bank.
So the one thing about doctors,dentists and engineers they
always pay back their debt, soyou can actually have a
different set of lendingcriteria around that.
So you have to versus maybe anentrepreneur might be a little
bit different in terms of thelending criteria.
So, rather than having thiskind of framework that was not
really tailored mainly tailoredto an average more than anything
(20:05):
else across different amountsor LVRs, versus individual
personalities and the sectorsthat they're in and the
behaviors that are normallydriven from that.
So yeah, so then I built thatbusiness out and ran several
other third-party distributionfor Westpac at one stage.
So yeah, so then I built thatbusiness out and ran, yeah,
several other third-partydistribution for Westpac at one
stage.
So I got a lot of experiencethere, actually in different
parts of that business, whichwas really really quite
(20:28):
satisfying to be honest, andworking for one of the largest
banks in the country, arguablythe world as well.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Obviously there'd be a lot of stakeholder management
and that skill set is reallyimportant in business and also
probably important inprofessional sports.
So can you touch on thesynergies there?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The one thing I have to give to the banks.
I think at that stage it wasjust post-GFC as well.
So we had four of the top 10banks in the world in terms of
market capitalisation, so it wasquite a remarkable time to
really start in banking, postLehman Brothers going down and,
of course, the whole globalfinancial crisis.
And yeah, they are really goodplaces to cut your teeth, in the
sense they've got very goodstructures in place.
(21:13):
They teach you how to managepeople, teach you how to develop
scorecard, the key metricsaround the business, how to
manage that to an inch of itslife, so to speak.
And then, of course, you've gotstate managers, you've got
national managers, you've gotgroup executives, you've got the
group CEO, you've got the CEOof the multiple brands that fall
beneath the Westpac group.
(21:33):
So you're right.
And then you've gotshareholders, of course, being a
listed business as well.
So there's a lot of stakeholdermanagement that is involved in
that.
But you do learn a lot and it'sone of those things where you
probably spend a few years there.
You don't realize how muchyou've learned, but it's funny.
You come into another businessand you can see all this stuff
that's just not been done verywell or managed very well, or
(21:56):
the sales team is not managed aseffectively as it could be in
terms of its operating rhythmand its frequency of seeing its
customers or managing thepipeline or even things like the
reward and recognition systemin place.
A lot of that can be a littlebit loosely done, and so I think
, yeah, the banks were greatlike that, and I certainly got a
(22:16):
lot out of those early years inbusiness.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, and how does that relate to what you learnt
as a professional athlete, andcould you have used those skills
that you learnt in the bankbetter when you were a
professional athlete?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Most certainly, because I mean a lot of skills
of success are transferableanywhere.
You just have to apply thoseprinciples elsewhere.
So the one thing that I foundin business that was quite
different to sport was, firstly,that a lot of the teams are
just there to be there, to pay amortgage, to have a job.
They're not really there with adeep sense of purpose.
(22:51):
So it's kind of building a teamaround you that feels like it's
got purpose was reallyimportant and trying to help
instill that in people.
Rather than feeling like you'repart of a big machine.
It's like well, what are wedoing here?
What are we trying to deliver?
What is the experience we wantto make for for the areas that
we touch, for the customers thatare involved with that?
So it's creating that deepsense of purpose and also
(23:13):
clarity over the objectives.
So this is what success lookslike, this is what failure looks
like, this is how the thereward and this is what failure
looks like.
This is how the reward andrecognition will work around
that.
These are the consequences forfailure as well.
And then developing I thinkit's called training in sport,
but it's what I call in businessan operating rhythm.
So what are all the day-to-daydisciplines and small little
(23:33):
deliverables that you have to do, that add up to, you know,
eventually getting to to a pointwhich is which is quite
significant, or you know betterthan your competitors, um, and
that competitive edge, I think,is something that you really
know.
You really know if you'reputting in, you know if your
team's putting in because you,you know at high level sport
that the margins of error arejust so small.
(23:53):
I mean, I've got.
When I, when I set out to winthe olympics, uh, to give you a
bit of an idea, I was over fourlaps behind of a 30-lap race.
That's how far I was off thatgoal.
I sit here before you over adistance of about 2,400 metres,
which is almost 24 minutes ofracing with three Olympic silver
medals, accumulatively byaround a second.
(24:13):
So that's three silver withinone second, just as gone by that
could have been three gold.
So you really understandcompetitive environments, um,
how much the little thingsactually do matter and make a
difference to the end result anddo add up and compound within a
business.
So I think there was a lot of,uh, leadership attributes that I
(24:35):
was able to bring from sportinto the business world that
were were quite unique, but justpart, part of the DNA for me
because I'd been doing it sinceI was four.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, and so teamwork in sport.
Now it's an individual sport.
You're a swimmer, you're theonly one in the pool, but
obviously there's a team aroundyou and that might be you talked
about your you, um, you knowpeople you compete against Ian
Thorpe, et cetera, who are alsoteam members teammates.
So can you share a bit ofinsight into being a
(25:09):
professional sports person in anindividual sport?
But was there a team involvedand how did that team support
you to grow?
And then how have you learnedfrom being in that team to
building out your own team?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good question.
A lot of people think thatswimming is a very individual
sport.
It's funny.
It's only individual when youexecute and that's the part that
you see on TV.
So the rest of the time, you'vegot a whole heap of training
partners.
You've got your main coach,you've got a strength and
conditioning coach, you've gotyour physio, you've got your
masseuse, you've got a manager.
You've got all these peoplearound you the whole time that
(25:44):
are contributing and helping to,you know, improve your
performance.
And it's the same with you andyour training partners.
You're trying to help improveyour training partners as well,
and then some of them youcompete against.
So you get up on the blocks andyou want to beat them.
But it's interesting becauseyou know where the competition
starts and stops.
And some of my best competitorsI've enjoyed the most training
(26:08):
with and gotten the most out ofthat.
So for me, yes, whilst it'sperceived to be this real
individual sport, it only reallyis at that point of competition
, which is probably less than 1%of our time that's committed to
it.
The rest of the time, we're ateam.
We're working together as ateam.
We're unique in the sense thatwe're not just a male football
(26:29):
team or cricket team.
We're actually both a male andfemale team as well, and I was
captain of that team, so youcould have a girl as young as 14
or 15 on that team for thefirst time and a male as old as
30.
And you've got to get everyoneswimming, so to speak, in the
same direction and workingtogether as a team and
supporting each other, so tospeak, in the same direction and
working together as a team andsupporting each other.
(26:50):
So you do learn a lot ofmanagement of that team in that
environment, just given theuniqueness of it.
But in terms of performance,yeah, you've got to get up there
and deliver.
But I like that aspect too,because that comes back to the
individual accountability whichI think is important as part of
any team.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah.
So now, what do you look for?
Obviously, you're a leader of avery large listed business that
continues to grow.
What is the key skills or keypersonality traits that you look
for when you hire for your teamacross the three businesses?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, I mean, when I'm looking at my team,
obviously the number one thingthat pops into mind or there's
two things, actually, I shouldsay that pop into my mind when I
think about that One is,obviously they've got to have
great people leadership.
So they've got to have goodpeople skills.
They've got to be able tocommunicate effectively, with
clarity.
They've also got to be strongenough to have the ability to be
able to manage people, becausea lot of the time you've got to
(27:45):
have areas in the business whereit's not performing where it
should be.
You have to change people outand have very difficult
conversations, so you've got tohave people who've got the, I
guess, the backbone and strengthto be able to do that.
So they're probably two of thekey aspects, because you're only
as good as the team around youin what we do.
And look, this is more, youknow, team orientated than even
(28:06):
the sport that I was in.
But the pressure of an OlympicGames or a World Championships
is like nothing I've experiencedin business.
Business is actually mucheasier than that aspect.
If you think about somethingthat's once every four years on
one particular day.
You're injured, you're sick,something goes wrong.
No one cares.
There's no excuses for that Inbusiness.
(28:28):
It's the macro environment,it's Trump, it's this, it's that
.
It's really easy to findexcuses, which I try to really
take that out.
What are real acceptableexcuses?
Because if someone's in theOlympic Games and they're
winning the men's 5, 5 000 meterby 200 meters, they've got one
(28:48):
lap to go pull a hamstring andcan't get there, does anyone
care?
No, no one cares.
No one cares.
And you could say, oh, that'san acceptable excuse, but no
one's going to give him a goldmedal still so.
And I think, um, I might sounda little bit harsh saying that,
but you almost have to have thesame level of discipline within
the business.
Um, well, so if you sign up forsomething you don't deliver
(29:10):
against that, the consequenceseither way need to be there
within the business.
So when I think of my team, Ithink they've got to have great
ability to be able to, you know,be strategic within their
business.
So they've got to come up withsome really good ideas.
They've got to have theintellect to be able to drive
that and consistently deliver.
They've got to be consistentperformers, great communicators
with their team and they've gotto have the strength to be able
(29:31):
to have all the toughconversations and not let them
drag out as well and let thebusiness be compromised or areas
of the business be compromisedbecause they can't do that.
So, yeah, there's a few kind ofkey traits that you look for
and look.
It's always hard to find reallyreally good talent and hard to
find people who are consistentlymotivated as well, day in, day
out, to deliver, because it istough.
(29:52):
You know I try and look aftereverything, from my diet through
to my sleep, through toeverything, to maintain the
level of intensity that I expectfrom myself within the business
.
And you know I try and makesure I schedule breaks for 12
months in advance.
Sometimes when you run a listedbusiness, you don't get breaks.
You know I was in the middle ofdoing a deal over the course of
(30:13):
Christmas and New Year's, soyou can't actually take the time
out that you would like to toactually have a rest because
you've got to get all that ready.
As soon as we hit February,we're announcing an acquisition.
So, yeah, managing yourself isreally important around that too
.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and how do you manage life as a busy executive?
You do have a family as well,so can you share some some?
You talk about planning 12months in advance.
That might not go according toplan.
If you have a, if you have anacquisition on the table, give
(30:50):
some insight to you as a busyexecutive, and how do you plan
your day and manage multiplethings outside of just work?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, you've got to have a lot of discipline in your
structure.
I am not a very like I could be, like I don't mind being social
, but I don't have much time fora social life.
I've got four kids in total.
The youngest two are five andone, so my time is literally as
a CEO of running hundreds ofpeople at a top 200 company.
Now my focus is there, or it'swith family, and that's kind of
(31:19):
it for me.
What do I do for myself?
People that ask probably not asmuch as I should.
If I'm being completely honestabout that, I don't think this
phase of life is allowing me tohave that freedom, and I'd be
lying if I said to someone whowants to aspire to this position
have a family and have asuccessful marriage that you are
able to have it all at the sametime.
My wife's got a really goodsaying.
(31:40):
She says you can have it all,just not at the same time.
It's very true, and so for me,I stopped drinking because I
just think it hurts myproductivity, didn't make me
feel good afterwards If I wasbeing honest about it.
I didn't really like drinkingthat much.
It wasn't something that Ireally enjoyed, and it also eats
(32:01):
into your fitness andeverything else and you eat bad
food.
And so for me I went to stopfor a year, stopped indefinitely
.
I think that was probably abouteight years ago now or even a
bit longer.
That's probably nearly nineyears.
So for me it was all thoselittle decisions around you have
to work out when you've got abusier life, not what just you
should be doing, but what youshouldn't be doing to support
(32:23):
the outcomes that you're tryingto go for.
And that doesn't mean justbecause I don't drink and I go
to the gym a bit and do all thatsort of stuff.
It doesn't mean I'm not goingto have a heart attack.
It doesn't mean that I'm goingto be successful.
All it means is that myprobability for success and
remaining healthy are higher,and that's what I want to give
myself, and it's the same withmy family.
As soon as I'm not doing stuffat work, you're not going to see
(32:46):
me stop between here and home.
I'm home, and it's anotherthing why I stopped drinking as
well, because waking up on aSaturday morning after a couple
of drinks you're a little bitslow, you're not quite yourself,
probably, and I didn't want tobe like that around my kids.
I wanted to be fully present, Iwanted to be engaged.
I want to be in their lives.
I want to be at their sportingevents, I want to be helping
them where they need emotionalsupport or support in life in
(33:07):
general.
So that was a reprioritizationfor me, and as I've grown in
business, I keep trying toreprioritize and think like that
, because it's an important partof managing your energy and
getting the output that you'relooking for.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and your children do you, obviously being
very successful both in thepool and in business.
What do you try and lead themin a certain direction, in terms
of whether they want to be aprofessional athlete or whether
they want to be a professionalin business, and how do you help
(33:45):
them to grow as individuals?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah.
So I've got two kids from afirst marriage, so I've got
twins that are 15, a boy and agirl.
I've got a five-year-old boyand a one-year-old girl.
So it's busy.
Three out of the four kids livewith me full time, so there's
always a lot going on in thehousehold.
To be honest, I don't care whatthey do.
(34:10):
It's the values that I wantthem to have with it.
That's really important.
So you know if you're going toparticipate in a team event,
turn up to every trainingsession.
You know, particularly myoldest son.
I said you're there to supportthe team.
You know, if he's even criticalof anyone else, I'm like, mate,
don't even worry about that.
Are you perfect yet?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So well.
You've got to focus on yourselffirst.
That's your first objective isto get yourself into a position
where you're, you know, leadingyourself to improve your own
performance and reflecting onthat and the areas of
improvement.
If there's someone else'sperformance is impacting yours,
you talk to the coach.
So it's the values around it,the work ethic that's
(34:51):
particularly important.
And look, a guy that was gettingup at 4.45 am six mornings a
week in high school and thengoing back straight from school
to the pool to be back in thewater at 4 pm, getting home at 7
pm for homework and dinner.
I understand that work ethicand the consistency of that work
ethic is really important.
So those are the sorts ofvalues that I want in my kids.
(35:13):
I don't care if they'resuccessful or not, as long as
they've given themselves thebest shot and as long as they
haven't given themselves alongthe way as well.
Like I don't want to evercreate a false sense of belief
for my kids and tell themthey're better at something than
what they are, and that's notto be negative on them and to
hurt their confidence.
It's to do the opposite.
It's actually to have a bit ofauthenticity around you know, if
(35:34):
you want to do well in exam.
Well, why are you playing videogames?
So?
Speaker 1 (35:38):
you know, maybe the extra bit of study.
There's always an opportunitycost.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Correct, and so I find my time and energy is more
into that.
They'll find what they're goodat, what they love and whether
they want to be successful at it.
So my my eldest son enjoysrunning more than he doesn't
like swimming because of me, youknow which I understand as well
, so I'll support him in that.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, and do you spend much time in the pool at
the moment?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Not at the moment.
No, I was scared of the bathtubafter I retired, if you're
doing, you know, close to 80kilometers a week and I was
training and racing effectively49 weeks of the year.
You know, I didn't understandthere was so many public
holidays until I went into theworking world, cause I trained
Christmas.
I trained, you know, new Year'sday and you know Anzac day.
(36:26):
I mean you of course don't getme wrong on those sort of days
in the morning we didn't train,we only trained in the afternoon
.
But then Easter we would trainlike we would train on all the
public holidays, it didn'tmatter.
Because you rock up to theOlympics and you know lane three
, you know, has not missed atraining session for the last 10
years and lane four on the, youknow lane five, lane five on
(36:47):
the other side of you, has doneeverything in their power.
There might be someone behind alane that's taking
performance-enhancing drugs aswell.
You don't know.
That's what happens in theworld of professional sports.
So you've got to do everythingyou can correctly in that
preparation to execute very well.
I mean, one of my main rivalsbecame the chief and commander
(37:07):
of SEAL Team 5 after hisswimming career.
And he seconded me at the WorldChampionships, at the Olympic
Games as well.
So you know you're dealing withsome pretty strong-minded
people.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well.
Thank you, grant, for coming on.
You've shared some really goodinsight into life as a
professional executive, as wellas life in the pool, and some
synergies and some key skillsthat you've learned throughout
your journey.
Super, as an Australianwatching the Olympic Games, it's
an honour to have you on thepodcast and thank you.
(37:39):
I think a lot of Australianshave looked up to you throughout
as a teenager watching.
So thank you and also all thebest in the future endeavors
with GDG Group, and I lookforward to continue to see the
business grow under yourleadership.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, thanks, fabian, and thanks for all your support
over the years, very muchappreciated, awesome Thanks,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Thanks for listening this week.
Stay tuned for our next episodeand keep up to date with us by
following the Finance Friendspodcast on Instagram and TikTok
Plus.
Connect with us and our guestsover on our LinkedIn page, all
linked in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations, and may not bereliable.
Here comes Brad Hackett, the most decorated
world champion ever, looking fora 15th medal.
Terrence was on a fight andHackett threw the arm in the air
as Kowalski arrives.
We're looking at 7.39.16, andhe's got it.
Brad Hackett, in world recordtime, wins the gold medal.
(00:21):
He's left a legend in his wake,and he's lost to win.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome back to Finance Friends, your personal
seat at the table with leadersshaping the financial world.
In this exclusive season, wemeet with high profile,
incredibly successful athleteswho achieve the greatest heights
on the sports field and are nowdominating the finance world
(01:03):
sports field and are nowdominating the finance world.
Today on the Finance Friendspodcast, we had no other than
Grant Hackett, three-time goldmedalist.
He's someone I watched as ateenager sitting on the couch
Sydney Olympics as a 13-year-old, cheering for Grant represented
(01:24):
Australia.
He is the ultimate athlete, theultimate professional.
He shares his story about beinga professional sportsperson and
transitioning into the world offinance and now being the CEO
of an ASX-listed company calledGeneration Development Group,
(01:45):
gdg.
He's inspiring.
This is a must listen to.
Good morning Grant, goodmorning Fabian.
Welcome to the Finance Friendspodcast.
How are you today?
Yeah, I'm very well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Well.
Thank you for coming in thestudio.
We've known each other for afew years now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, we've crossed paths on many occasions
actually, so probably my earlydays at Generation Life and GDG,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, so let's touch on that.
You're currently the CEO of notGeneration Life, the greater
company.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, the ASX listed business, which is GDG, and
we've got three businesses nowbeneath that which we didn't
back then, probably when we metaround 2017, 2018.
We've got Lonsec, which wedidn't back then, probably when
we met in around 2017, 2018.
We've got Lonsec, whicheveryone knows in finance, the
research and ratings business,and also Evidentia Managed
Accounts, which is now acombination of Lonsec Investment
Solutions as well as theEvidentia Managed Account
(02:36):
tailored portfolio solutions and, of course, the life company,
generation Life, which is big ininvestment bonds and also
lifetime annuities.
So, yeah, and I'm sitting upthere running the group entity
and, yeah, it's been a lot offun.
We've done it.
We've made quite a few movesover the last sort of 12 to 18
months and continue to growpretty sharply in each of our
segments, which is great.
But yeah, you're always sort ofparanoid about maintaining that
(02:59):
too.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, well, it's obviously being a listed company
.
You've got public investors,anyone can invest in the company
and the company has done reallywell and grown quite a lot
since you've been in control ofthe company.
So what are your focuses inyour current role, given there's
three large businesses withinthe group and also you are
(03:25):
responsible for being a listedcompany and answering ultimately
to shareholders?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Absolutely.
It's probably.
It's something I've done for along time now.
I think I've been doing thelisted company role since
October of 2018.
So I've spent a lot of timewith investors over the years
and a lot of them have been onthe journey with us as we do
various capital raises.
Obviously, new investors comein, particularly on the Insto
side, but a lot of our retailinvestors have done very well at
the stock I think I came in.
(03:51):
I think we were sitting around50 odd cents about 52 cents at
the time.
We're trading today close to $5.
So it's been a significantamount of growth, a lot of hard
work.
It's funny you kind of look atwhere we were and where we are
now and it's chalk and cheese.
We've gone from a $40, $50million market cap company to
almost a $2 billion business.
But I feel like we've built itbrick by brick and it's been an
(04:14):
amazing team in terms of thefocus around execution.
So we knew we had very goodproducts.
We knew we had a product thatwould probably sit well within a
portfolio for a financialadvisor, particularly in the
life company.
We had strong brand recognitionon the lawn sex side.
So we knew we had a realopportunity to be able to
turbocharge the growth of someof these assets if we focused on
(04:35):
the execution side and reallygot the sales and marketing
correct and and right leaders inplace as well.
That's absolutely critical toyou know, driving any sort of
successful outcome, particularlyas you grow as a group.
And for me now, I guess a lot ofmy focus just to, I guess,
answer your question in summaryreally probably 30% of the time
really is with investors now.
So when explaining the strategy, what we're doing, how we're
(04:57):
executing against that, talkingthrough our latest updates,
whether that's a quarterly, halfyearly or full year update so
there's a lot of time spent onthat.
When your register gets quitebroad, then the next probably
20% of time you're reallyfocused on strategy.
So what are you doing with theteam?
Are they executing that well?
What's the strategy that I'mlooking for, not just for the
next 12 months, but next threeyears, next three to five years?
(05:19):
Where do we want to be?
And having absolute clarity onthat's really important.
And then a lot of my time isspent really around the
execution of the business.
So working with the CEOs of thevarious assets, making sure
that they're aligned to thestrategic plan, helping and
supporting them and deliveringthat and then making sure that
we've got the right people onthe team.
(05:40):
So and then you've got tomanage all of your key
stakeholders around.
That, such as no-transcript anda bit of complacency or hubris,
(06:13):
can sneak into a business,particularly after such a period
of growth as well.
I've been through ups and downsin both business and personal
life and I know which side ofthat I prefer to be on.
So for me, I think the older Iget, the more paranoid I almost
get about performance andbusiness and making sure that
(06:33):
we're continuing not to deliver.
But I would love to be able todeliver in most parts of the
business above expectation.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and that's obviously why the business has
been able to grow so rapidlyover the last seven years since
you've been a part of it isbecause you've been able to
deliver performance beyondexpectation of the market.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I think so I think there's been.
You know, I think everyone kindof.
If you're willing to work inand on the business,
particularly in those early daysI think a lot of your teams see
that.
So you know I'd be on a planeevery week, sometimes every
second day, going out thereseeing financial advisors,
talking to dealer groups,forming new relationships as
part of the group, you know,educating the market on our
(07:12):
products, how they operate, andthen the whole team rallies
around that as well.
So if you're willing to leadfrom the front and do the hard
yards, they'll dig in andsupport as well.
And then you know everyonestarts to get rewarded around
that.
It feels good to be winning, itfeels good to get good results,
it feels good to get therecognition that they've
received and deserve as a team.
But you can also, you know,momentum can very quickly go the
(07:36):
other way and I've been on bothsides of that.
So I think for me, as I'vegotten older and more
experienced, I think I'mprobably pretty fortunate that
I've had that world of sportwhere there's sponsorship,
there's profile that comes withit, there's the glory.
You can do no wrong and I'veseen how that can come undone
quite easily as well.
(07:58):
So I think for me in business,regardless how big we got, it
wouldn't matter if we went froma $2 to a $20 billion business.
I think I'd still feel much thesame.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, so it'd be good to bring it back to the start.
So you grew up on the GoldCoast, is that right?
Or Queensland?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah, I was born on the Gold Coast.
So yeah, grew up there andmoved around Queensland a bit
because dad was a detective forthe Queensland Police.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Department.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
So he got transferred as he sort of got promoted
through that job and we ended upin North Queensland, in
Innisfail actually.
So that's probably my firstmemory.
We were at the Sunshine Coastjust before that, but Innisfail
is really where I got intoswimming, started school there
and yeah.
So I was very much from far,far north Queensland regional
area.
So I'm a true blue Queenslander, so to speak, or a true maroon
(08:46):
Queenslander, I should say.
But yeah, and started swimmingup there purely just because my
brother did, who's six and ahalf years older than me.
I was four, he was ten, andthen, yeah, we sort of built out
the swimming journey from there.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, and at what point in your as a child did you
realise or a teenager, thatit's likely that you're going to
become a professional swimmer?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's weird.
I always knew if I reallywanted something.
I always felt this as a kid.
I don't know why.
It might be blind confidence,but I always felt like if you
worked hard enough and youfocused on your goals, you could
really achieve anything thatyou want to.
And I made the decision when Iwas 13 that I was not only going
to go to the Olympics but I wasgoing to go there and win.
That was honestly my goal, andthe reason that was the case is
(09:33):
because Sydney got the 2000Games, so this was 1993.
And I just remember the hypearound that.
I was doing three sports.
I was doing the Surf LifeSaving Probably loved that the
most at that point in timeplaying rugby up in Queensland
and I was also doing swimming,but I could only go to the
Olympics for one of those sports.
(09:53):
So it wasn't the fact that I wascompletely in love with
swimming, it was more.
I wanted to go to the Olympicsand win and that Olympic gold
medal was the real pursuit andpurpose for me.
So I think then I laid down thefoundations.
I looked at what was theOlympic champion, the world
record holder in my event, doingat the different age groups.
So 13, 14, 15, 16 and beyondand, funnily enough, three years
(10:16):
after that, I became worldchampion in the 1500 metre
freestyle, which was my petevent, and didn't lose for 11
years after that.
So it worked out.
But I think the reason I didn'tlose is because I'm a bit like
I am now, but I think I'm evenmore so like this now and
comfortable about it is I wasnever as good as my last race.
I was always good as my nextone, and that was always my
(10:38):
focus as an athlete.
But 13 was probably thatdefining moment.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah so 13.
And you as an athlete, but 13was probably that defining
moment.
Yeah so 13.
And you said, at the age ofthree years later, you became
the, you were the world championfor 1500 metres and then from
there you didn't.
You were the best 1500 metreswimmer in the world for 11
years.
How did you stay on path andresilient and driven, and how
(11:07):
has that transitioned into yourcareer to date?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's funny because your vision changes, and it
needs to in business as well.
So for me, winning the Olympicswas everything.
I went to my first Olympics inSydney.
I just turned 20, came awaywith that Olympics with two gold
medals.
But the vision changed.
I wasn't the world recordholder yet in the men's
1500-meter freestyle.
Kieran Perkins, a fellowAustralian, still had that.
(11:33):
So I thought, well, I've got toget that mark.
So the next year I got that andbroke that by seven seconds.
And then I remember Alex Popoff, who's a very famous swimmer,
particularly in the 90s, saidyou know, you're good if you win
one Olympics, you're great ifyou win two and you're a legend
if you win three.
And so I kind of thought tomyself I'd like to be great.
(11:53):
So, I really wanted to be alegend.
I did go for three, but gotsilver in the last one.
So that vision really changedand I then competed in 2004 and,
had a partially collapsed lung,wanted to win three Olympic
gold medals.
That was my goal, was to stepup.
So my vision again changed andI was just motivated by being
(12:14):
better, trying to improve,seeing how much I could actually
give and where that took me,and seeing the other people
around me.
What they did was inspiring.
So I was in an era where MichaelPhelps was at his best, ian
Thorpe was at his best, kieranPerkins was at the tail end of
his career, so some real legendsof the sport over the last
century, literally.
(12:35):
And I was fortunate enough torace them all.
Peter Venn and Hoogan Bandsanother name that was quite big
globally in the sport.
So I think I just had so manypeople around me that just kept
lifting the bar all the time youfelt like you had nowhere to go
and even if I would win the1500, I might've finished second
in the 800 or the 400 toThorpey, and that really
(12:56):
motivated me to step up againand improve.
So, yeah, I think for me thatthe vision has to be.
It's not set, and I find thesame in business too.
We wanted to hit a few keymilestones along the way in
business and as soon as you hitthose milestones, you've got to
recreate the vision.
And I think, as soon as youdon't feel like you want to do
all the small little things, allthe little disciplines, you're
(13:17):
not feeling as paranoid as youused to, I think that's time to
move on.
And for me, I knew that afterthree Olympic games I was done.
I was happy with what I'd done.
In the sport I reflect on, Iwould always like to do more.
I don't think I'm completelysatisfied.
I think that's just part ofyour makeup, more than anything
else.
But I was ready to move intobusiness and I wanted to go into
something different.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, and at what point did you decide that?
So you said you've done threeOlympics.
Decide that, so you said you'vedone three Olympics.
You've world champion, recordholder, multiple gold medalist.
Were you studying during thattime or was it like a shut up?
I finished with swimming, nowit's time for business.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
No, I think well ahead, well ahead.
It's almost scary sometimes howfar I think ahead, so I
probably am very structured.
I'm more of a planner.
Five years out, I was meetingwith Rob Coombe, who's my
chairman of the group that I runright now, and Tim Bishop, who
was the CEO of Macquarie Bank inAmerica.
(14:18):
Sit down and talk what should Ibe doing right now?
I, tim Bishop, who was the CEOof Macquarie Bank in America,
sit down and talk.
What should I be doing rightnow?
I was studying commerce law atthe time, but to put myself in a
great position I knew I wouldretire after Beijing.
Three Olympics was as far as Iwanted to go.
I wanted to start my workinglife because I was close to 30
years of age.
So I felt like everyone had abit of a jump on me who got out
of uni in their sort of early tomid-20s.
Like everyone had a bit of ajump on me who got out of uni in
(14:39):
their sort of early to mid-20s.
So yeah, so I always had thatplan and then it was a matter of
the moment came where I'dalmost been global CEO at what I
was doing.
Right, like I was right at thetop of my game.
I was really well respected forit.
I'd done things in the sportthat people probably thought
were almost impossible ordifficult to do in the 1500
meter freestyle at points in mycareer.
(15:01):
And then I started working infinance and I went from being
the best in the world to youknow Collins Street on a Monday
morning not being the best atthe table.
And the sooner I realized thatthe better.
It put me instead to moveforward in my career because
kind of put the ego to the sideand just said, well, okay, if
I've got to do all the smallstuff, learn the skill I need to
(15:25):
do that now.
So I didn't actually think backto when I was at the peak of my
sporting career.
I actually thought about well,what did I do in those years
when I was 13, 14, 15, 16?
Because that's effectivelywhere I'm at right now in my
professional business career.
And so I thought about all ofthe objections I heard, all of
the noise that you had to cutthrough, the clarity that was
(15:45):
required on your goals and thededication to the process of
achieving those goals.
And for me that's what Ifocused on in business and I
think within two years Iprobably got myself into a
position where I was feelingpretty proud of what I was doing
and where I was going.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, and there would have been some lows during that
time.
What advice do you give forsomeone that might be
transitioning as a professionalsportsperson or is currently a
professional sportsperson that'sabout to make that transition
and going to go through thoselows?
Speaker 3 (16:16):
The best advice I can give is hang in there, because
you've got to go through aperiod probably a few months in,
maybe six or seven months inwhere you think, oh, this is not
for me.
And the reality is, if you're aprofessional sports person,
your name's well known, you'veretained some of your sponsors,
even post your sporting careeror some other commercial
opportunities outside of, Iguess, your day-to-day work.
It can probably give you thatoptionality.
(16:38):
A lot of people who don't havethe optionality are often more
successful.
Sometimes, when they don't havea plan B or something to fall
back on, they've got to stayfocused and remain in something
that's not necessarily makingthem feel great right now.
But you know, if you're able topersist and get yourself into a
certain position that you knowyou would enjoy the
responsibilities of thatposition or the opportunities
(17:01):
that it would bring.
So if there was a call out toany athlete, I would say persist
through those times and giveyourself an absolute, concrete
chance.
And that takes a few years todo that and you've got to be
willing to persist for a fewyears and I think then you've
got a new skill set, then you'vegot something else to offer,
then you can combine theleadership skills that you've
(17:21):
not only got from sport but inbusiness as well, and it can
really put you in the driver'sseat to create some pretty great
opportunities for yourself.
But you've got to be willing topersist through that difficult
initial period, I think.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, and so you talk about transitioning and the
slow transition not necessarilyslow, because you were, you were
starting to make those, thoseconnections during your athlete
career, as a professionalathlete.
So where did you, where did youstart in the world?
Originally in the world offinance.
What were you doing?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
So I was in a in the privatebank so I just started out with
a team there and worked with theteam and managing the customers
that we have within the privatebank, moved around to starting
a business in there that wecalled Alpha Sport and
Entertainment.
A lot of athletes make a lot ofmoney when they're younger,
don't necessarily know where toinvest it, don't necessarily
(18:16):
have a lot of great people whoare truly in their best interest
around them for thoseinvestments.
So we wanted to make sure thatwe had four different things,
those four key elements.
One was making sure they hadthe right relationship manager,
the right financial advisor, acredit policy to be able to
support them, because a lot ofthem don't.
They're not asset rich butthey're cashflow rich at that
(18:36):
particular point in time.
They might be on a five or$600,000 contract but not have
more than 20 grand in the bankbecause they've just signed that
for the next three or fouryears.
And then you want to make sureyou've got the right insurances.
So if they were to have acareer ending injury, and what
insurances they've got, ifthey've got a big mortgage or
some other liabilities that needto be paid out.
So we created a propositionaround those four areas and,
(18:58):
yeah, we ended up growing thatbusiness.
I think it had three-year KGARgrowth of about 70% plus, so it
was quite material.
I was doing my MBA post-sport aswell, so I did my executive MBA
as part of my thesis for that.
My final kind of project aroundcompleting that after two and a
half years was I created avalue proposition for
(19:19):
segmentation, so the mostprofitable segments for banking
and finance.
What are we doing todifferentiate ourselves within
each of those segments?
So you know mining, energy andresources, professional services
.
You know doctors and dentists,engineers.
You know people of similarprofiles and what's unique to
their particular industry orsector that you can offer that's
(19:41):
different from another bank.
So the one thing about doctors,dentists and engineers they
always pay back their debt, soyou can actually have a
different set of lendingcriteria around that.
So you have to versus maybe anentrepreneur might be a little
bit different in terms of thelending criteria.
So, rather than having thiskind of framework that was not
really tailored mainly tailoredto an average more than anything
(20:05):
else across different amountsor LVRs, versus individual
personalities and the sectorsthat they're in and the
behaviors that are normallydriven from that.
So yeah, so then I built thatbusiness out and ran several
other third-party distributionfor Westpac at one stage.
So yeah, so then I built thatbusiness out and ran, yeah,
several other third-partydistribution for Westpac at one
stage.
So I got a lot of experiencethere, actually in different
parts of that business, whichwas really really quite
(20:28):
satisfying to be honest, andworking for one of the largest
banks in the country, arguablythe world as well.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Obviously there'd be a lot of stakeholder management
and that skill set is reallyimportant in business and also
probably important inprofessional sports.
So can you touch on thesynergies there?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
The one thing I have to give to the banks.
I think at that stage it wasjust post-GFC as well.
So we had four of the top 10banks in the world in terms of
market capitalisation, so it wasquite a remarkable time to
really start in banking, postLehman Brothers going down and,
of course, the whole globalfinancial crisis.
And yeah, they are really goodplaces to cut your teeth, in the
sense they've got very goodstructures in place.
(21:13):
They teach you how to managepeople, teach you how to develop
scorecard, the key metricsaround the business, how to
manage that to an inch of itslife, so to speak.
And then, of course, you've gotstate managers, you've got
national managers, you've gotgroup executives, you've got the
group CEO, you've got the CEOof the multiple brands that fall
beneath the Westpac group.
(21:33):
So you're right.
And then you've gotshareholders, of course, being a
listed business as well.
So there's a lot of stakeholdermanagement that is involved in
that.
But you do learn a lot and it'sone of those things where you
probably spend a few years there.
You don't realize how muchyou've learned, but it's funny.
You come into another businessand you can see all this stuff
that's just not been done verywell or managed very well, or
(21:56):
the sales team is not managed aseffectively as it could be in
terms of its operating rhythmand its frequency of seeing its
customers or managing thepipeline or even things like the
reward and recognition systemin place.
A lot of that can be a littlebit loosely done, and so I think
, yeah, the banks were greatlike that, and I certainly got a
(22:16):
lot out of those early years inbusiness.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, and how does that relate to what you learnt
as a professional athlete, andcould you have used those skills
that you learnt in the bankbetter when you were a
professional athlete?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Most certainly, because I mean a lot of skills
of success are transferableanywhere.
You just have to apply thoseprinciples elsewhere.
So the one thing that I foundin business that was quite
different to sport was, firstly,that a lot of the teams are
just there to be there, to pay amortgage, to have a job.
They're not really there with adeep sense of purpose.
(22:51):
So it's kind of building a teamaround you that feels like it's
got purpose was reallyimportant and trying to help
instill that in people.
Rather than feeling like you'repart of a big machine.
It's like well, what are wedoing here?
What are we trying to deliver?
What is the experience we wantto make for for the areas that
we touch, for the customers thatare involved with that?
So it's creating that deepsense of purpose and also
(23:13):
clarity over the objectives.
So this is what success lookslike, this is what failure looks
like, this is how the thereward and this is what failure
looks like.
This is how the reward andrecognition will work around
that.
These are the consequences forfailure as well.
And then developing I thinkit's called training in sport,
but it's what I call in businessan operating rhythm.
So what are all the day-to-daydisciplines and small little
(23:33):
deliverables that you have to do, that add up to, you know,
eventually getting to to a pointwhich is which is quite
significant, or you know betterthan your competitors, um, and
that competitive edge, I think,is something that you really
know.
You really know if you'reputting in, you know if your
team's putting in because you,you know at high level sport
that the margins of error arejust so small.
(23:53):
I mean, I've got.
When I, when I set out to winthe olympics, uh, to give you a
bit of an idea, I was over fourlaps behind of a 30-lap race.
That's how far I was off thatgoal.
I sit here before you over adistance of about 2,400 metres,
which is almost 24 minutes ofracing with three Olympic silver
medals, accumulatively byaround a second.
(24:13):
So that's three silver withinone second, just as gone by that
could have been three gold.
So you really understandcompetitive environments, um,
how much the little thingsactually do matter and make a
difference to the end result anddo add up and compound within a
business.
So I think there was a lot of,uh, leadership attributes that I
(24:35):
was able to bring from sportinto the business world that
were were quite unique, but justpart, part of the DNA for me
because I'd been doing it sinceI was four.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, and so teamwork in sport.
Now it's an individual sport.
You're a swimmer, you're theonly one in the pool, but
obviously there's a team aroundyou and that might be you talked
about your you, um, you knowpeople you compete against Ian
Thorpe, et cetera, who are alsoteam members teammates.
So can you share a bit ofinsight into being a
(25:09):
professional sports person in anindividual sport?
But was there a team involvedand how did that team support
you to grow?
And then how have you learnedfrom being in that team to
building out your own team?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good question.
A lot of people think thatswimming is a very individual
sport.
It's funny.
It's only individual when youexecute and that's the part that
you see on TV.
So the rest of the time, you'vegot a whole heap of training
partners.
You've got your main coach,you've got a strength and
conditioning coach, you've gotyour physio, you've got your
masseuse, you've got a manager.
You've got all these peoplearound you the whole time that
(25:44):
are contributing and helping to,you know, improve your
performance.
And it's the same with you andyour training partners.
You're trying to help improveyour training partners as well,
and then some of them youcompete against.
So you get up on the blocks andyou want to beat them.
But it's interesting becauseyou know where the competition
starts and stops.
And some of my best competitorsI've enjoyed the most training
(26:08):
with and gotten the most out ofthat.
So for me, yes, whilst it'sperceived to be this real
individual sport, it only reallyis at that point of competition
, which is probably less than 1%of our time that's committed to
it.
The rest of the time, we're ateam.
We're working together as ateam.
We're unique in the sense thatwe're not just a male football
(26:29):
team or cricket team.
We're actually both a male andfemale team as well, and I was
captain of that team, so youcould have a girl as young as 14
or 15 on that team for thefirst time and a male as old as
30.
And you've got to get everyoneswimming, so to speak, in the
same direction and workingtogether as a team and
supporting each other, so tospeak, in the same direction and
working together as a team andsupporting each other.
(26:50):
So you do learn a lot ofmanagement of that team in that
environment, just given theuniqueness of it.
But in terms of performance,yeah, you've got to get up there
and deliver.
But I like that aspect too,because that comes back to the
individual accountability whichI think is important as part of
any team.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah.
So now, what do you look for?
Obviously, you're a leader of avery large listed business that
continues to grow.
What is the key skills or keypersonality traits that you look
for when you hire for your teamacross the three businesses?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yeah, I mean, when I'm looking at my team,
obviously the number one thingthat pops into mind or there's
two things, actually, I shouldsay that pop into my mind when I
think about that One is,obviously they've got to have
great people leadership.
So they've got to have goodpeople skills.
They've got to be able tocommunicate effectively, with
clarity.
They've also got to be strongenough to have the ability to be
able to manage people, becausea lot of the time you've got to
(27:45):
have areas in the business whereit's not performing where it
should be.
You have to change people outand have very difficult
conversations, so you've got tohave people who've got the, I
guess, the backbone and strengthto be able to do that.
So they're probably two of thekey aspects, because you're only
as good as the team around youin what we do.
And look, this is more, youknow, team orientated than even
(28:06):
the sport that I was in.
But the pressure of an OlympicGames or a World Championships
is like nothing I've experiencedin business.
Business is actually mucheasier than that aspect.
If you think about somethingthat's once every four years on
one particular day.
You're injured, you're sick,something goes wrong.
No one cares.
There's no excuses for that Inbusiness.
(28:28):
It's the macro environment,it's Trump, it's this, it's that
.
It's really easy to findexcuses, which I try to really
take that out.
What are real acceptableexcuses?
Because if someone's in theOlympic Games and they're
winning the men's 5, 5 000 meterby 200 meters, they've got one
(28:48):
lap to go pull a hamstring andcan't get there, does anyone
care?
No, no one cares.
No one cares.
And you could say, oh, that'san acceptable excuse, but no
one's going to give him a goldmedal still so.
And I think, um, I might sounda little bit harsh saying that,
but you almost have to have thesame level of discipline within
the business.
Um, well, so if you sign up forsomething you don't deliver
(29:10):
against that, the consequenceseither way need to be there
within the business.
So when I think of my team, Ithink they've got to have great
ability to be able to, you know,be strategic within their
business.
So they've got to come up withsome really good ideas.
They've got to have theintellect to be able to drive
that and consistently deliver.
They've got to be consistentperformers, great communicators
with their team and they've gotto have the strength to be able
(29:31):
to have all the toughconversations and not let them
drag out as well and let thebusiness be compromised or areas
of the business be compromisedbecause they can't do that.
So, yeah, there's a few kind ofkey traits that you look for
and look.
It's always hard to find reallyreally good talent and hard to
find people who are consistentlymotivated as well, day in, day
out, to deliver, because it istough.
(29:52):
You know I try and look aftereverything, from my diet through
to my sleep, through toeverything, to maintain the
level of intensity that I expectfrom myself within the business
.
And you know I try and makesure I schedule breaks for 12
months in advance.
Sometimes when you run a listedbusiness, you don't get breaks.
You know I was in the middle ofdoing a deal over the course of
(30:13):
Christmas and New Year's, soyou can't actually take the time
out that you would like to toactually have a rest because
you've got to get all that ready.
As soon as we hit February,we're announcing an acquisition.
So, yeah, managing yourself isreally important around that too
.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and how do you manage life as a busy executive?
You do have a family as well,so can you share some some?
You talk about planning 12months in advance.
That might not go according toplan.
If you have a, if you have anacquisition on the table, give
(30:50):
some insight to you as a busyexecutive, and how do you plan
your day and manage multiplethings outside of just work?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, you've got to have a lot of discipline in your
structure.
I am not a very like I could be, like I don't mind being social
, but I don't have much time fora social life.
I've got four kids in total.
The youngest two are five andone, so my time is literally as
a CEO of running hundreds ofpeople at a top 200 company.
Now my focus is there, or it'swith family, and that's kind of
(31:19):
it for me.
What do I do for myself?
People that ask probably not asmuch as I should.
If I'm being completely honestabout that, I don't think this
phase of life is allowing me tohave that freedom, and I'd be
lying if I said to someone whowants to aspire to this position
have a family and have asuccessful marriage that you are
able to have it all at the sametime.
My wife's got a really goodsaying.
(31:40):
She says you can have it all,just not at the same time.
It's very true, and so for me,I stopped drinking because I
just think it hurts myproductivity, didn't make me
feel good afterwards If I wasbeing honest about it.
I didn't really like drinkingthat much.
It wasn't something that Ireally enjoyed, and it also eats
(32:01):
into your fitness andeverything else and you eat bad
food.
And so for me I went to stopfor a year, stopped indefinitely
.
I think that was probably abouteight years ago now or even a
bit longer.
That's probably nearly nineyears.
So for me it was all thoselittle decisions around you have
to work out when you've got abusier life, not what just you
should be doing, but what youshouldn't be doing to support
(32:23):
the outcomes that you're tryingto go for.
And that doesn't mean justbecause I don't drink and I go
to the gym a bit and do all thatsort of stuff.
It doesn't mean I'm not goingto have a heart attack.
It doesn't mean that I'm goingto be successful.
All it means is that myprobability for success and
remaining healthy are higher,and that's what I want to give
myself, and it's the same withmy family.
As soon as I'm not doing stuffat work, you're not going to see
(32:46):
me stop between here and home.
I'm home, and it's anotherthing why I stopped drinking as
well, because waking up on aSaturday morning after a couple
of drinks you're a little bitslow, you're not quite yourself,
probably, and I didn't want tobe like that around my kids.
I wanted to be fully present, Iwanted to be engaged.
I want to be in their lives.
I want to be at their sportingevents, I want to be helping
them where they need emotionalsupport or support in life in
(33:07):
general.
So that was a reprioritizationfor me, and as I've grown in
business, I keep trying toreprioritize and think like that
, because it's an important partof managing your energy and
getting the output that you'relooking for.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and your children do you, obviously being
very successful both in thepool and in business.
What do you try and lead themin a certain direction, in terms
of whether they want to be aprofessional athlete or whether
they want to be a professionalin business, and how do you help
(33:45):
them to grow as individuals?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah.
So I've got two kids from afirst marriage, so I've got
twins that are 15, a boy and agirl.
I've got a five-year-old boyand a one-year-old girl.
So it's busy.
Three out of the four kids livewith me full time, so there's
always a lot going on in thehousehold.
To be honest, I don't care whatthey do.
(34:10):
It's the values that I wantthem to have with it.
That's really important.
So you know if you're going toparticipate in a team event,
turn up to every trainingsession.
You know, particularly myoldest son.
I said you're there to supportthe team.
You know, if he's even criticalof anyone else, I'm like, mate,
don't even worry about that.
Are you perfect yet?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
So well.
You've got to focus on yourselffirst.
That's your first objective isto get yourself into a position
where you're, you know, leadingyourself to improve your own
performance and reflecting onthat and the areas of
improvement.
If there's someone else'sperformance is impacting yours,
you talk to the coach.
So it's the values around it,the work ethic that's
(34:51):
particularly important.
And look, a guy that was gettingup at 4.45 am six mornings a
week in high school and thengoing back straight from school
to the pool to be back in thewater at 4 pm, getting home at 7
pm for homework and dinner.
I understand that work ethicand the consistency of that work
ethic is really important.
So those are the sorts ofvalues that I want in my kids.
(35:13):
I don't care if they'resuccessful or not, as long as
they've given themselves thebest shot and as long as they
haven't given themselves alongthe way as well.
Like I don't want to evercreate a false sense of belief
for my kids and tell themthey're better at something than
what they are, and that's notto be negative on them and to
hurt their confidence.
It's to do the opposite.
It's actually to have a bit ofauthenticity around you know, if
(35:34):
you want to do well in exam.
Well, why are you playing videogames?
So?
Speaker 1 (35:38):
you know, maybe the extra bit of study.
There's always an opportunitycost.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Correct, and so I find my time and energy is more
into that.
They'll find what they're goodat, what they love and whether
they want to be successful at it.
So my my eldest son enjoysrunning more than he doesn't
like swimming because of me, youknow which I understand as well
, so I'll support him in that.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, and do you spend much time in the pool at
the moment?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Not at the moment.
No, I was scared of the bathtubafter I retired, if you're
doing, you know, close to 80kilometers a week and I was
training and racing effectively49 weeks of the year.
You know, I didn't understandthere was so many public
holidays until I went into theworking world, cause I trained
Christmas.
I trained, you know, new Year'sday and you know Anzac day.
(36:26):
I mean you of course don't getme wrong on those sort of days
in the morning we didn't train,we only trained in the afternoon
.
But then Easter we would trainlike we would train on all the
public holidays, it didn'tmatter.
Because you rock up to theOlympics and you know lane three
, you know, has not missed atraining session for the last 10
years and lane four on the, youknow lane five, lane five on
(36:47):
the other side of you, has doneeverything in their power.
There might be someone behind alane that's taking
performance-enhancing drugs aswell.
You don't know.
That's what happens in theworld of professional sports.
So you've got to do everythingyou can correctly in that
preparation to execute very well.
I mean, one of my main rivalsbecame the chief and commander
(37:07):
of SEAL Team 5 after hisswimming career.
And he seconded me at the WorldChampionships, at the Olympic
Games as well.
So you know you're dealing withsome pretty strong-minded
people.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well.
Thank you, grant, for coming on.
You've shared some really goodinsight into life as a
professional executive, as wellas life in the pool, and some
synergies and some key skillsthat you've learned throughout
your journey.
Super, as an Australianwatching the Olympic Games, it's
an honour to have you on thepodcast and thank you.
(37:39):
I think a lot of Australianshave looked up to you throughout
as a teenager watching.
So thank you and also all thebest in the future endeavors
with GDG Group, and I lookforward to continue to see the
business grow under yourleadership.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, thanks, fabian, and thanks for all your support
over the years, very muchappreciated, awesome Thanks,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Thanks for listening this week.
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Plus.
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linked in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations, and may not bereliable.
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