Former Wallaby, international rugby star, and now Investment Specialist... Luke Jones joins us for the second episode of From the Field to Finance!
After a 14-year professional rugby career that spanned Australia and France, Luke made the leap from elite sport into the world of Finance. Now an Investment Specialist at Fawkner Property, he’s responsible for raising millions in capital and thriving in a new kind of pressure environment.
In this episode, Luke reflects on the identity shift that comes with life after sport, the steep learning curve of entering the corporate world, and the discipline and resilience that elite rugby instilled in him.
Luke shares the honest and often humorous realities of navigating a second career, what drives him now, and why staying curious and connected has been key to his reinvention.
Whether you're an athlete, an investor, or simply curious about what it takes to reinvent yourself, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.
Follow Luke Jones on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukejones91/
Learn more about Fawkner Property: https://www.fawknerproperty.com.au/
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Finance Friends podcast and today we
have Luke Jones.
Luke, welcome, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, thanks, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, it's a pleasure .
I've got to know you over thelast couple of years and you've
been able to successfullytransition from being a
professional rugby union playerto work in finance.
So let's start with thattransition.
How has it been?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, it's been really, really good.
I mean, obviously, when wefirst caught up I was in the job
searching mode introduced byChris Clayton from L1 and, yeah,
everything moved very, veryquickly from there.
So I had a neck injury that putmy rugby career a little short.
I probably could.
I should still be playing atthe age I am I'm only 33 at the
(00:52):
moment but thankfully, duringrugby I put a big emphasis on
studying and I think I learnedthat early on through the
Western Force and playing forthem for the first season.
A lot of those guys were alwaysstudying.
There was a lot of balance, Ithink, in rugby back then and,
(01:14):
like I said, big emphasis onsomething outside of rugby.
So I studied business at thatpoint, switched to commerce and
then realized I like financialplanning and now have one
subject to go to finish myMaster's in financial planning.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, so you talk about the big emphasis on
studying at the Western Falls.
Yeah, how old were you at thatpoint and how much of that is
player-led, individual-led.
So players as a collective-led,individual-led or the club-led?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I think I would say back then.
It's a combination ofeverything.
So I think the player influenceis probably first and foremost,
and there were a lot of playersthere that were heavily focused
and a little bit older andalready thinking about the next
part of the process.
And you know, you regularly gettold in rugby this isn't
(02:11):
forever.
You know you've got to come upwith a plan B and it could
happen at any time.
You know, a quote from one ofmy good friends, scott
Higginbotham, is you know, playevery game like it's your last
because it could be you couldget injured.
You know, from the gametomorrow, from a training
session, and then all of asudden, if you don't have
somewhat an insurance policywhich is a backup in the
(02:35):
workforce, then you're going tobe stuck right.
And in saying that, like, say,you do have a fulfilling career
and I think I did, in the sensethat I had played 14 years
professionally- yeah, and whatwould be the average career
length of a rugby player?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Would it be less than that?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I would say it's probably between six to
seven.
Like there are so many playersthat I know that had to end
early through injury and thereare some that do very well and
they'll continue on up toprobably 39, which is incredible
.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Such a physically demanding sport.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it makes it tricky.
So I think, scott, you knowyou've always got to have some
sort of idea of what you want todo outside, because, okay,
let's say it is what's for mefor the 14 years professionally.
You know I'm only 33 now,that's you still have a long
time to go before, you know, youretire.
(03:36):
And you know it's a littlenaive to think, you know, I'm
just going to play rugby, I'mgoing to make enough money and
then that's me done.
I think that you've really gotto.
You know, it depends onpersonality.
So some would stay in rugby andlove rugby, so much to the
point where they would thenstudy, you know, coaching and
(04:00):
start getting involved in thatside of the business and, you
know, as their body would breakdown.
There was even some hybridcontracts where some players
would be available when theycould, but they'd also be
involved in the coaching sidetoo.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Was that ever a consideration for you,
transitioning into rugby not asa player, but as maybe a coach
or, as you know, within themedia?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, it wasn't really for me.
With the media stuff, I neverreally well.
Firstly, I think the media isreally for those guys Unless
you're, you know, absolutelyincredible at it.
I think it's reserved for thosewho are the absolute stars, and
as it should be.
That's what drives interest.
(04:44):
But for myself I thought, um,you know, continuing on and
being a coach or something alongthose lines, it just didn't
interest me enough.
You know, I did see thecoaching staff and that, the
hours they would have to do, andI just didn't get that same
satisfaction out of rugby as theway they did.
(05:06):
So for me, I would always.
You know, some guys would say Iwould be first in, first out.
It wasn't always along thoselines.
I was more of a I want to bethere, be effective, get what I
can out of this and go and spendtime with my family or spend
time working on somethingoutside, because that's what got
(05:27):
the best out of my rugby.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, and it's often that you hear from professional
sports people that they get thebest out of their career when
they've actually got a youngfamily and they get purpose
outside of sport.
So, like you said, come in, dowhat you need to do and
ultimately get out so you canspend time with family outside
of sport.
So, like you said, come in, dowhat you need to do and
ultimately get out.
So, you can spend time withfamily or pursue interests
(05:49):
elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, definitely.
And you know, on a Wednesday,which would be technically our
day off, that would be ourSaturday, sunday I'd often bring
my kids in because they were ata great age where, you know,
they weren't at school Kreishwas here and there so then I
would bring the kids in.
They used to love um coming in.
There'd be massages on that day, or there'd be guys watching
(06:12):
some footage from training orgames and um, they'd meet all
the staff and and throw a ballaround.
So it's nice to have thoseexperiences.
But I I wish that, I wish Icould have continued on for a
few more years, just becausethey're now at that age where
they say, oh, I really wish youwere doing that, dad.
Like we're now, you know, 9, 7,and we've just had our newborn
(06:33):
daughter named Elodie, so she'sfour months old.
But the older kids, they're nowat that age where they're like
come on, dad, like can't youjust like put the boots back on,
let's go watch you play rugby.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And how much you're talking about your children, and
they are quite young, yeah, buthow much time do you talk to
them about?
You know what they want to doin their career, whether it be
professional sport, or would itbe, you know, a profession
outside of sport, or maybe acombination of two, throughout
their journey.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, look, I think it's probably too early in the
piece, but I've always thoughtextracurricular is really
important, whatever it is.
It doesn't have to be sport.
It could be a musicalinstrument, like my daughter's
doing piano.
They both do basketball.
(07:24):
Basketball seems to be thenumber one sport in Melbourne.
I think that's down to a fewreasons, one being the fact that
the hoop height's lower for thelower ages, and then it's
indoor, which is what we allneed down here in miserable
winter Melbourne.
So, yeah, look, it's certainlynot a.
It's not a.
(07:45):
Let's find a way to put you ina professional sport.
It's a.
What's your interest?
How much do you enjoy it?
And then let's find some drivefrom that.
Like, my daughter is lovingreading, reading books so
quickly, so you know she mightbe academic.
My wife's studying medicineshe's already talking about and
(08:05):
so my father-in-law's a vascularsurgeon.
So, um, I can see her brainalready ticking over saying I
want to work with mom, like shemight work with, you know, my
granddad, you know that's that'sthe.
That's where she's looking at asa nine-year-old, so I guess
it's play it by ear don't leaveevery door open at this point,
(08:26):
and then we'll see what theywant to do from there.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, no, that's really insightful.
So it's interesting because itprobably comes back to you when
you were maybe not nine, butmaybe 14 or 15 and playing rugby
at school.
Yeah, so at what point in yourjuvenile life did you realise
that professional sport islikely and that you're going to
(08:51):
allocate the majority of yourtime to becoming a professional
sports person?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, I'll take it back a step.
So, growing up, I think I wasfive I wanted to play rugby.
My father played rugby and Ithought, oh, that looks like fun
, I want to get involved in arough sport like that.
At that stage I didn't evenhave under fives, I had under
seven, so I barely touched theball all season and it was more
a case of just running aroundand feeling like I was amongst
(09:19):
it.
Then all my friends playedsoccer.
I played soccer and then it gotto a stage where, you know, I
felt like I outgrew soccer,excuse me, um.
And then, you know, rugbybecame an option to play club.
So I played, uh, club rugby atsay, would have been like 10 10
(09:39):
years old.
And then, yeah, continuing that, I went to some pious St Pius
in Sydney and that was the sportthat they played, which was
rugby.
Not that we were by any meansamazing at it.
We actually had an amazinggroup that we could play that
played pretty well, and one ofthe guys in that team was
(09:59):
Michael Hooper.
So we went to school togetherand played through all the ranks
together.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So similar, same age.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Same age, same age, like he would play seven.
I'd play the sixth or secondrow, usually thrown in the
second row because I was quitetall.
But, yeah, played throughoutand I really never saw it as a
professional job, I would say,up until I was 16.
So it wasn't like it wasn'tsomething that I'd actually
considered to be a pathway oranything like that.
(10:29):
It was just something I reallyenjoyed.
And what I found the mostsatisfying was always playing at
the next level as one, achallenge with two.
I felt more comfortable andfelt like it was more exciting
and more intense and thepressure was on further and
that's something I reallythrived in.
(10:51):
So I probably didn't get pickedvery often in the lower age
groups Playing Gordon Juniors Iwas typically never in which was
the representative side of theclub rugby system in the North
Shore of Sydney.
So I yeah, it wasn't until Iwas 16 that I actually made the
(11:12):
Australian merit team that isnamed that side, and from there
that was when I really found adrive to go okay, this might be
a job, this might be something Iwant to pursue, but at the same
time I knew my studies werestill important and, funnily
enough, I didn't take school tooserious up until probably 16,
(11:34):
17.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, I guess, like most people Like most people,
yeah, especially boys All youwant to do is play sport.
There's nothing new yet there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course,yeah.
So, and how important washaving Michael Hooper?
Was he a gun as a?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Always.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So having him to obviously play with and
obviously set a high standard,did that help you with your
development?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, I think he was always very, very good.
I think he was always very,very good and the guys in our
under 16, 15, 16, whatever agegroup it was that year we used
to win most competitions.
I think that probably played apart.
It was a very competitive groupand everyone was striving to
(12:24):
outachieve each other and thecoach at the time would always
put up a ranking system foreveryone to see how they
performed that week and it waspretty strict.
So, yeah, I think that probablyplayed a part to that as well.
But it then came a time where Istarted to really enjoy playing
in the older age groups andtrying to challenge myself to
play above my age.
(12:45):
So I was 15, I was trying toplay under 17s for St Ives.
Uh, when I was, when I was 16,I went straight to the first for
school and didn't continue onwith that group and really loved
playing against older kids andand, yeah, like said, I
thoroughly enjoyed trying tochallenge that and trying to
(13:06):
challenge play with groups whowere much older than me and got
great satisfaction out of tryingto dominate those guys.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And at what age were you when you received your first
professional contract and canyou share some details of that
contract?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, yeah, sure, so it was funny.
So Hooper and I were both.
We actually have the same agent.
His name's Andrew Fairburn.
He identified both of us whenwe were in.
I believe it was either anunder-16s championship, national
championship, and we bothsigned with him.
(13:46):
We both had options to go tothe Waratahs or to the Brumbies
and the Western Forth.
It was called a pro academycontract, so call it maybe 15,
16 grand, but they'll put you upand if you play a few games,
you know it's sort of the usualprocess for that age group.
(14:06):
So how old?
At this point we would havebeen 17.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So we were in like year 11.
This is the conversation forwhen we finish year 12, what we
would do after that.
So the options were all quitethe same.
The Brumbies had the bestprogram.
So we were both leaning towardsthe Brumbies.
None of us, we weren't veryinterested in joining the
(14:32):
Waratahs At that stage.
The Waratahs was very much a youdo your time.
You know, it didn't feel likewe would ever get a go.
It just felt like we would bepart of the system.
And we saw that with a fewother guys who were just cogs in
the wheel and it was more orless do your time, whereas the
Brumbies and the Western Forcewere if you're ready, we'll
(14:54):
throw you in.
So that was appealing to us.
On the back of that and on theback of the Western Force,
learning that I was leaningtowards the Brumbies, they upped
the deal of the.
The western force, learningthat I was leaning towards the
brumbies, they upped the deal tothe rookie contract, which was
you know, I don't know, probablydouble the money and you know
you were actually part of themain squad.
(15:14):
So that immediately got myattention and and I knew there
was a lot of great talent overthere, like james o'connor was
there at the time uh, nathansharp.
Nathan sharp was someone wassomeone that I'd watched very
closely over the years and hewas a captain of Australia and
did some incredible things forrugby and I still keep in touch
(15:35):
with him on and off to this dayand was a great mentor.
So it made sense for me.
They flew me over, they flew myparents over, they showed me
how it worked.
They had one of the I guess oneof the supporters, main
supporters of the club.
He had me stay with them for,however long it took me to get
(15:56):
on my feet.
So pretty daunting to go from, Iguess, the east coast to the
west coast, when it's quite afaraway spot, like it does feel
like its own country.
But I, you know, loved itimmensely and thought the people
there are lovely, perth's agreat spot.
The team were very good and wehad a lot of injuries that year,
(16:21):
which meant I got to play fourgames for the Western Force,
which was pretty cool at 18years old.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, so going from a student playing with mates to
becoming a professional sportsperson, yeah.
What were the biggest learningsfor you for that transition?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think the biggest learnings for me and if anyone
who was part of that, I think Iwalked in and thought, you know
I've captained a few teams inthe school level.
So I captained my school,captained New South Wales
schools.
You know was a leader of theAustralian school boys team that
(16:57):
travelled two years in a rowand I walked in and I remember
the first line-out session or,you know, forward session and
you know I'm there makingcomments in the team huddle,
thinking that you know I'm in aposition to be talking but
realistically, I should havejust been listening and learning
(17:17):
and you know a lot of thoseguys would make jokes about that
, like throughout the year andstill this day they laugh about
that moment that I thought itwas appropriate for me just to
throw my two bob in, but the youknow it was an incredible
experience and like just goingto, honestly, the best thing
(17:39):
about going to Western First wasgoing there.
All the guys were very,including they would bring me
along to coffees and catch-upsand I would just sit there and
they would talk about suchinteresting things Like it
wasn't.
They were very engagingconversations about.
You know what are we doing from?
How are we improving the game.
(18:01):
You know how are we improving,how we're looked after as
players.
What are we improving the game?
You know how are we improving,how are we looked after as
players.
What are we doing outside?
It was quite an eye-opener tosee.
You'd expect players just to betalking about I don't know,
just very mediocre conversations.
But rugby unions always had theluxury, I guess, of it being a
(18:23):
private school dominatedenvironment and yeah, I feel
like that showed through a lotof the conversations outside of
rugby.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And is that what sparked your interest in
business and commerce?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I think it definitely played a part.
Definitely played a part.
I think that, plus my parentsalways trying to push that and
my grandmother always pushingthat, there's something more to
rugby and you've got you guys tostudy as well.
At that stage I was juststudying business and thought
(18:56):
you know that that's thedirection I want to go down, and
I was more of a box ticketer atthat point.
It probably wasn't until maybethree or four years later that I
started to realize and alsosorry, going to the Rebels and
having another group of guys whowere the average age then would
(19:16):
have been like 29.
It was an old group and that'swhat was needed because it was
inaugural season and theybrought in a lot of heavyweights
and a lot of guys who were atthe sort of end of their career
but had a great name forthemselves.
So guys like Al Campbell, who,quite successful outside of
rugby as he was in, and a bit ofa journeyman like myself,
(19:42):
played in France for some time,played for the Wallabies a
little bit, so not toodissimilar to myself.
Also, another tall guy, locke,same position.
So as much as he taught me alot about rugby, he taught me a
lot about what I should be doingoutside of rugby.
So I think that there's alwaysbeen a great level of support
(20:04):
for that inside and outsiderugby.
I think that just comes alwaysbeen a great level of support
for that inside and outsiderugby.
I think that just comes fromthe players more than anything
because you know the coachingstaff will say you know we need
you to do stuff outside.
I did find the older I got andthe more professional rugby
became and the more pressure Ibelieve coaches are under for
(20:27):
performance, the less theyfocused on what we were doing
outside.
It was how much can we get youto come into the club and how
much can we get you to liverugby like we do?
Because as coaches we're here24 7 and we don't see the same
from the players.
But I've found it's hard tobreak down.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
There is a balance that's needed yeah, well,
ultimately a coach is, is theirperformance is judged on the,
the team's performance 100they're not judged on how well
you're doing outside and have asuccessful career outside of
rugby.
So you know it's.
There is a.
You know you are a professionalsports person, you're a
(21:07):
professional coach and their jobis to get the best out of the
team, but your job is to also bemindful around.
What is the?
What is the plan beyondprofessional sport?
100%, yeah definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But I do think that the pressure has been mounting
and I think that if I just takeit back 14 years from the
Western Force to the first yearof the Rebels to now, it
definitely ramped up.
You know, like when I came backto the Rebels and everybody was
(21:40):
in the club on the day off, Ithink that was when I thought,
wow, this is not the excuse me,this is not the environment that
I've been a part of previouslyor seen.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
so yeah you talk about environment and I want to
pivot the conversation a littlebit Sure.
You talk about environment andI want to pivot the conversation
a little bit Sure.
Environment in a professionalas a professional sports person
seems very structured.
You know where you need to be,when you need to be, maybe
(22:14):
nutrition as well, recovery, etcetera Whereas as a professional
in financial services would yousay it's less structured.
And how have you been able toadapt from a very structured
environment to maybe a lessstructured?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
environment?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I would say you're right, it isless structured.
I would say you're right, it isless structured, it's more.
There's a more onus on yourselfme to go out there and find
meetings, especially in a BDMrole, to, you know, drum up new
business and find, you know,find funds for the new deal
(22:57):
we're doing, or to, I guess,build a network that you can
then rely on for raising capitalon syndicates that we're
looking at at Faulkner Property.
So it's much more of a you haveto take the ownership.
It's on you, whereas I believethat early days of rugby or
sorry, when you're not a leaderin rugby, it's very much a
here's the schedule, here's this, here's that.
(23:19):
But as you become a leader inthose clubs, you know you have
more of a say on right.
Well, this is how we should doit and this is what we can
benefit from.
And I think it comes morenaturally towards the end of
rugby where your opinion doescount, because you have such
good experience in rugby.
Your opinion does count becauseyou have such good experience
(23:39):
in rugby and you're taking that.
You're taking your experienceand you're taking your views and
you're turning it into a leaderaspect of the team and so, as
much as it is all structured,and here's your passport.
They give you your passport,they give you everything and, um
(24:00):
, I was always very much, uh, Ilike to have my opinion, I like
to, I like to be able to, totake charge of things, and if I
have an opinion of how I thinksomething will work and how we
can get the best out of the team, I wasn't afraid to say to a
trainer or a high-performancecoach or the head coach or the
(24:22):
forwards coach and say, hey,this is how we should run the
line out this week, this is howwe're going to beat them in this
regard.
Or I think that we've probablyover-trained the start of the
week.
I think if we back off the backof the end of the week, we will
freshen up for this match, orthere's been a longer turnaround
.
So I think you could really getstuck into us in this part of
the week.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So not too dissimilar to corporate life where you
know when you are a graduateright.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's very structured.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
This is what you do, but as you become a leader you
start to influence the structureand the direction and the
strategy of the business.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, exactly right, fabian, it's exactly right.
So I think that if you were toend your career short and you've
only played five to seven yearsI think you'd feel a little bit
fish out of water and I thinkyou would struggle.
I think it would be a struggle.
I think even then there's stilla lot of players who are
(25:19):
mercenaries and they'll get tothe end of their career and you
know, the best thing they can doand provide for the team is
just, honestly, to work hard andtake direction.
So I don't think thatnecessarily.
You know, this job is foreveryone and a lot of my
teammates inside and outsiderugby, you know, do struggle or
(25:40):
are doing a completely differentpath to what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, and what advice would you give to someone that
is maybe your 21-year-old self?
Yeah, yeah, maybe just paint apicture where you're a 21, and
what advice would you give toyourself a 21, that you know now
as a 33 year old, that's, youknow, having a successful career
within financial services?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
yeah, I would think sometimes I was probably a
little bit opinionated and Ithought that I could offer an
opinion on things that wereprobably a little bit out of my
reach for in terms of where theteam should go and how we should
do things, whereas there was somuch abundance of opinions and
(26:24):
I guess it was on the other sideof that there was always a lot
of guys in that team at theRebels at the start, who were
older heads and everybody had anopinion, which I think you need
a balance of young guys to oldguys.
I think we eventually got that.
But I think more or less soakit up, listen and take in
(26:46):
everything, write notes, walkaway from coffees and write down
a couple of things you learned.
I think it's probably the mainthing I would suggest is always
having a notepad, and it's notalways just for I would suggest
is always having a notepad, andit's not always just for rugby,
it could be for anything.
You might hear something inconversation and go.
I find that really interesting.
(27:06):
I'll write that down, find outsome more information on that
later.
It could be a number of things,but I think soak it up early on
and train as hard as possible.
I think you get a lot morerespect from your peers by just
putting your head down, bum upand going as hard as possible
(27:28):
with training and then outside,and then so going further
through the career, you startreaping the benefits of you know
, learning from those guys andtaking on that information and,
like I said, soaking upinformation and, before you know
it, you're now one of the olderguys and some of the young guys
(27:48):
look towards you and I thinkthat's a real opportunity for
you then to try and pass thatwisdom that you've received onto
them, and I think if you can dothat, I think you'll have a
pretty successful career inwhatever you do after.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, and at what age were you when you decided that?
Well, obviously you mentionedpreviously around having an
injury, which sort of playedyour cards for you, but you must
have been thinking in advanceof that injury where you'd go
next.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So when was that?
Was there a specific point intime?
Well, it seems like you've justevolved from joining the force
at a young age, but was there aspecific point in time where you
realised what you wanted to doand when that would likely take
place?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
yeah, good question.
So, like I said, startedstudying business, didn't know
what I wanted to do.
I started in sports managementbut I didn't have enough love
for the, for sport, to reallywarrant going into that after
rugby.
So I quickly pivoted andthought, right, right, it looks
like I enjoy finance.
I became a little bitself-obsessed with my own
(29:04):
portfolio and what I was doingbecause, you know, I was always
conscious of the fact that.
You know, rugby is a shortwindow.
You make some great money.
What do you do with that to tryand set yourself up so that
you're in a pretty strongposition as you finish?
So, you know, through the yearsof investing in, you know
commercial, not commercial, myproperty and residential
(29:26):
property, investment properties.
You know ETFs, the markets,equities, all of that, and then
other businesses along the way.
All of that and then otherbusinesses along the way.
So, from that starting commerce, not really knowing about
(29:47):
financial planning and what thatwas, but realising I was kind
of doing a version of it, anunadvised version of it I then
started doing subjects incommerce that related to
financial planning and that'swhen it really struck and I
would say that's probably 20,that's probably 26.
So up until then I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do, which is
(30:09):
quite um.
I always find it quite hard forthose who aren't in
professional sport, who are justdoing a degree and not not
exactly knowing what to do next.
I think it's so tough to knowwhat exactly it is that makes
you drive.
It gives you drive and I feellike when you finish school, as
you're finishing school, it'slike what do you want to do?
(30:30):
What do you want to do?
I think we we put a lot ofpressure on on the youth to come
up with that answer reallyquickly and you can see people
pivot pretty quickly and youknow it's very difficult to know
what you want to do.
But so fast forward to 26, 27,.
I started focusing more onfinancial planning and finished
(30:52):
my degree in commerce and thenstarted my master's in financial
planning.
I could have done anothermaster's, but I thought I was
very much if this is what I wantto do, and I knew at this stage
that you know the industry offinancial services was going
through a very big transition,with the Royal Commission and
(31:12):
you know a lot of advisorsstepping out and there being a
huge undersupply of advisors inthe country.
So I felt like that was a greatposition for me, just to double
down and and continue on withthe masters rather than, um,
putting eggs in differentbaskets.
So so it was at that point thatI actually um, so we'll fast
(31:36):
forward again.
So that's when I knew I wantedto be a financial advisor, which
is not what I'm doing now.
But I originally applying atGarno Private Wealth to be, you
know, involved in their business, involved as a, you know, first
year, and you probably knowthis.
You have to do associateprofessional year, first year,
(31:58):
and you probably know this youhave to do associate
professional year.
But, as we all know, it's atough slog to start and,
fortunately enough for me, patScarno, who is my boss,
approached me and said you coulddo that.
It's going to be a tough slog.
You're going to have to gothrough absolute, you know some
(32:21):
turmoil to get to where you wantto be and you know I hear that
a lot from advisors, because thegreat thing is about my job is
I get to meet everyone.
Now I get to meet all theadvisors of the industry and it
is.
It's a tough slog to start butthere's some great benefit, you
know, if you're good at it andyou put enough time into it.
Having a young family.
(32:41):
His suggestion was come andstart with us as a business
development manager.
You will raise capital.
It's going to be very excitingand dynamic.
You're going to meet everyonein the financial services
industry and you'll hit theground running and we can
reassess down the track.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yep and you've had a quite a smooth transition from
what I've seen, and we've caughtup a few times in the last
couple of years.
So what has been thedifficulties in your current
role or biggest learnings overthe last couple of years?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think the biggest learning yeah, and look, it was
a really tough first six months,like, as an example and this is
back to everything being handedto you in rugby had never sent
an email invite.
So been sent you know a stack,or actually been just been sent
(33:39):
templates of what the days looklike and what your month look
like, but never actually had tosend an invite.
It was always just a textmessage of I'll meet you there.
Yeah, um, and patch startedintroducing me to a couple of
their BDMs, so they showed methe ropes and then he said just
just send them an emailinvitation.
I said I don't know what you'retalking about.
So it was a steep learningcurve.
(34:03):
Despite all the studies in theworld you can do, nothing will
prepare you for a real job.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, it's almost that corporate culture
transition, yeah, which youlearn as maybe a 22 year old
graduate.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Correct, but you're expected to know as a 31 year
old professional, correct, butluckily, you know, through his
mentorship and through a lot ofthe guys in the office who were
willing to put the time into me,picked it up quick enough.
It helps that you're a goodbloke.
Yeah, hopefully that's whatthey say.
(34:46):
And yeah, picked it up prettyquickly, I believe.
And yeah, look, I think thatexpectation of, I guess, coming
in and learning quickly on thatfront.
And then the other one was, Iguess, not realising how much
money is in the system and howmuch private money you know is
(35:11):
within that, I guess thatwholesale space, which is what
we focus on, and you know, anexpectation of raising.
I believe it was 30 mil.
My first year.
That number just went straightover my head in terms of I was
in a little bit disbelief of howam I supposed to achieve this
and what does this actually looklike?
(35:33):
Mind you, though, so patch sentthrough this is leading into
the job, and I guess this isprobably what I pride myself on
when I entered Faulkner.
So I went through the interviewprocess with him and his old
man, chris.
Chris is the founder and ownerof the business.
(35:53):
They sent through all the trustupdates for all the trusts that
we have, and I'll just try tomake it clear.
So we're a commercial propertysyndicate and we're an unlisted
closed trust and we're up totrust number 31 now, but at the
time we're up to trust number 21.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, so for our listeners, you effectively buy
an asset, a property, and thenyou raise capital to settle that
property, and then theinvestors invest in that
property and then they receivedistributions and then, if you
sell that property at a laterpoint in time, any capital gain
they'll receive in addition tothat.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
It's all equal structured units.
There's no preference units oranything.
So the founders are the largestinvestors.
They put in 10% to 15% in everydeal we do and we now have
about $3.6 billion in assets andmanagement.
When I joined, we were sittingat just over two.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Wow.
So we've had a busy eight, ninemonths.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
It's almost doubled within two years.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And there's been huge opportunities at those shopping
centres that are daily needsfocused, so non-discretionary,
and they're sort of between,let's call it, 100 to 500 mil.
There's been a liquidity problemat that level and then there's
been large institutions whoneeded redemption.
So hence why we've beenextremely active, hence why
(37:18):
we've been extremely active.
So, if I take it back, sojoining and this is the
expectation of coming in it wasto raise if we had a syndicate
and, like you said, it's usuallya two to three month window and
the benefit that we offer isusually the best terms.
But we'll try and offer thelowest price possible we can at
(37:42):
that price so we can try andachieve an IRR of, say, 15% or
above.
That's the catalyst of a dealfor us.
Now this is where it getsinteresting, because we offer
the best terms and because it'susually there's never a subject
capital raise, so the pressure'son to raise the money.
So I love that aspect becauseit's very similar to rugby.
(38:03):
It felt like when we're inraise mode it feels like I'm in
a rugby game and it feels likeevery.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
You've got 80 minutes to get the best result, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And so it'll be a case of we've got to raise 50
mil, we've got to raise 100 mil,we've got to raise 200 mil,
We've got to raise 50 mil, we'vegot to raise 100 mil, we've got
to raise 200 mil.
We've got two months to get thefunds allocated, money in,
application forms in, and we'llsettle, yeah, in two to three
months.
From that point.
So it's pretty exciting, whenit's on, it's on and when it's
(38:34):
off it's building the networkfor the next one, and so I love
that aspect of it.
So when I joined, it would havebeen three or four weeks in and
they were like we've bought thisproperty settlement city in
Port Macquarie, we need you toraise 10 mil.
And I was.
Thankfully, there was a portionof clients that I had been
(38:55):
given and there was anexpectation that I was going to
bring on some new clients.
I would say the initial raisingpercentage would have been, say
, 80% existing and 20% new.
And you know, the more I got myfeet on the desk, the more time
(39:16):
in the saddle that percentagebecame better and better in
favour of new funds and newgroups that I was talking to,
and there's nothing moresatisfying of getting that
onboarded new client that you'veestablished through your own
network and been referred tofrom someone that you know, and
(39:37):
there's nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And is that what you most enjoy about your job?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, definitely, that's definitely the biggest
benefit of the job, I believe,is finding capital from your own
network or established throughyour own prospecting and cold
calling and you know so forth,yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
And, as we look up to wrap up this conversation, I've
really enjoyed it.
One thing that fascinates me isyour identity.
Obviously, you've been known asa professional sports person
for 14 years.
You've been known as aprofessional sports person for
14 years played for theWallabies, played in France,
played in Melbourne, played inPerth and then transitioned into
(40:30):
a finance professional, whereyou want to be taken seriously
as a finance professional, butmaybe people still identify you
as a rugby professional.
Yeah, how has been thetransition to change your
identity and being now respectedas a finance professional
versus a rugby professional?
Are you talking me through thatjourney?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
It's a good question.
Um, I don't think that I had tochange my persona or change my
appearance in terms of wearing asuit, but I didn't have to
change a whole stack of things,I think you know, definitely,
(41:08):
starting the job was dauntingand coming on board was
certainly a challenge, and it'sstill challenging.
It should be challenging.
That's why we do it.
If we didn't have challenges,we would become complacent and
it would become too repetitive.
And I think that's the greatthing about rugby is that you're
always looking for what's nextand what's next for how to grow
(41:32):
and how to become better.
And I walk away from meetingsstill and go what could I have
done better there?
And I do treat it like a gamein that respect.
But to answer your questionwould what have I?
Yeah, the persona thing, likeit's really been the same thing.
It's, I guess, yeah, askingdifferent questions and
(41:56):
structuring questions andanswers to find out more I can
about those investors and seewhat they're looking for to
invest in and you know how dothey look at their overall
portfolio and what aspect ofthat is income driven and what
aspect of that is capital growthand then how much are they
allocating to property asopposed to, because you know, as
(42:17):
you know, as Australians, weall love our residential
property, so some can be prettyoverweight in that market
already.
So then it's, you know whatelse, what is it they're looking
for as an investment?
And I guess it's something thatsometimes I guess from my
parents it's always been a tabooconversation of talking about
finances so openly and so umforthcoming.
(42:41):
But that's you don't.
You don't improve in that areawithout sharing those answers
and and sharing your ownposition.
And I've certainly shared myviews and and how I and I speak
to it with a lot of players whoare still playing and I get
phone calls all the time from Iget a lot of phone calls from
(43:02):
players who are still playingand they ask you know, how are
you going?
Because you know, to be quitefrank, there are a lot of guys
who are struggling.
And that's not to say I'm nothaving days where I'm certainly
searching and trying to findwhat I can get out of it.
(43:22):
But I think writing down goalsand writing down goals is
important, but also writing downa to-do list for the day, the
week, the month and mapping thatout.
I think that certainly helpsand gives good direction.
I think direction is probablykey, from someone who's been
giving their passport to a teammanager for 14 years.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, because it is.
You know it can be easy to losea sense of purpose.
You know, when you're used tobeing in the media and everyone
acknowledging you and knowingwho you are and wanting to get
your autograph, and kids comingup to you.
All of a sudden, then youretire from that sport and you
transition or create your nextcareer.
(44:06):
What is that?
What does that mean?
Am I as valued as I started?
I was the top of the top andnow, all of a sudden, I'm asking
how to set the calendar in fire.
I feel a little bit useless.
So it is.
It's a transition.
It is, and it's just a matterof being okay with not knowing
everything and learning.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, and I'd say I lean on my wife, maddie, heavily
for a soundboard and someone totalk to through this.
Like I'll give you a realexample Last night, you know I
couldn't sleep and you know youstart thinking about rugby and
(44:47):
like there was times there whereI certainly didn't miss the
training and I certainly didn'tmiss some of the meetings which
I would find counterproductive.
If we would be sitting therefor, say, an hour and a half or
two hours and you know theattention span of players is
probably, I would say, 30, 40minutes at best.
So you'd have guys who are Ialways give the example of.
(45:09):
We'd walk away from a meetingand I'm like what are three
things that you could take outof that meeting?
And a lot of players wouldstruggle to.
And that was more the clubaspect or the professional club
aspect, not the WallabyInternational level where guys
are just completely on themeetings are.
You know, it's just a higherlevel.
So there's a lot more on theline.
(45:35):
But I would say that with goingthrough rugby and going through
that, like I said, like with mywife, there are times where I do
feel like what am I doing?
You know I miss rugby, I missplaying especially, and
(45:56):
sometimes I feel like I have nopurpose.
Or you know you just you feellike you're off the, off the
path, or you know it feelsobviously very foreign.
It's it's two years into.
You know the, the, the nextpart of your life, next chapter,
sorry, next chapter, whereasyou know you've just been in a
14 year stint where you've livedin France for five years, in a
(46:18):
14-year stint where you've livedin France for five years and
that was a big one for us wherewe lived in Bordeaux and Paris.
So there are times where youdefinitely need someone to talk
to regularly and I think that ifplayers don't have that in a
partner or if they're notmarried, and I think speaking to
someone outside professionallyis probably a pretty smart
option, because I still think,despite and not to sound, trying
(46:44):
to sound humble, but likesomeone who's transitioned well,
there's still times where I'mstill finding challenges.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So I think it's okay to not feel great.
Oh, totally I don't feel.
Sometimes I wake up in themorning and feel like I really
want to do what I do.
Right.
And then I get here.
I love what I do, but you do gothrough those.
You know mental battles and Ithink most people do to just get
up and to perform at that elitelevel.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, and and you know I said the exact quote I
said last night was the biggestqualm I had was I'd feel sore
going home Cause I train all day.
I know what I have to do thenext day.
It's going to be sore, it'sgoing to be this.
Then I got, you know, theweekly process and now at the
moment I'm not even trainingbecause my wife's studying
(47:29):
medicine and those hours arejust ridiculous.
And now we've got three kids.
So it's a real balance at themoment it's just trying to find
time to get back into the gym orget back into some sort of
activity, because I do thinkthat really helps your mental
health.
And, yeah, I probably need tostart running and doing
(47:50):
something again.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
We can go for a run together, mate.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah, we'll do the 10 after this.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Yeah, that's great.
And the last question I havefor you is is there someone that
comes to mind of big influenceon your professional career, be
it rugby, but also professionalcareer and financial services?
Speaker 2 (48:09):
now, I'd say there's probably two.
One would be my father-in-law,who played for the Wallabies,
played part of the 84 Grand Slamwinning team.
He's a vascular surgeon,someone who has four kids I
(48:29):
married the youngest of his fourand he's always been a great
sounding board and someone who'shelped with a lot of rugby.
But then in the transitionperiod where he lives in
Melbourne as well, and up untila few weeks ago I was training
with him, but he trains at astupid hour in my opinion, which
(48:49):
is 6 am, which doesn't soundthat early, but when you're
someone who likes to stay uplate and prefers to be a night
owl as opposed to an early bird.
But he's someone who you know,I can call it a drop of the hat
and he'll always help me getthrough some things and offer a
(49:10):
different perspective and prettywell-rounded bloke.
The other one would be andfunnily enough so I met John
Eales when I was maybe nine orten, met him with my grandfather
, who he bought two tickets to aluncheon where it was intimate,
(49:30):
maybe 15 people and you know,met him, talked to him for a
little bit and then it wasn'tuntil I was probably in the
Wallabies and saw him again andhe recognised my name, you know,
although generic, luke Jones,he still put two and two
together and caught up with himon and off over the years.
(49:51):
And you know, because John'svery successful in rugby but
outside rugby and John only hasa degree in arts, he doesn't, he
didn't go down the commercepath or you know, some sort of
specific study like that, butyou know he's an incredible
(50:11):
leader and he's been involvedwith a number of boards.
So he's been on Magellan foryears.
He's on Flight Centre.
He's involved with anothercouple of boards.
So he's been on Magellan foryears.
He's on Flight Centre.
He's involved in another coupleof businesses and I used to
catch up with him and we nevertalked rugby.
Rarely would talk rugby.
It would always be, you know,I'd ask him.
(50:32):
I finished commerce, what doyou think I should do next?
What do you think I shouldstudy next?
And you know, because hetravels the world constantly and
I was living in Paris, I wasactually in London for a match
and caught up in for breakfastfor two hours.
He always made the time to fitme in and then, since I've
arrived back and joined Fork,he's been someone that I've
(50:55):
caught up with several times andsomeone who's helped me with
referrals and introducing me tosome of his networks.
So you know that's been.
I would say he's been a mentorand so has my father-in-law to
an extent.
So those are two.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Well, thank you very much, Luke.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I've enjoyed hearing your story, and I'm sure our
listeners will too, and we wishyou all the best in your second
career within financial services.
So thank you for coming in.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, it's nice to unpack it all and I probably
haven't thought about it indepth as much as this.
So thanks for asking so manyprovoking questions.
So appreciate it, Thanks forhaving me.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Cheers, mate.
Bye, that was great.
I love that.
Yeah, I'm mindful.
Welcome to Finance Friends podcast and today we
have Luke Jones.
Luke, welcome, how are youtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well, thanks, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Well, it's a pleasure .
I've got to know you over thelast couple of years and you've
been able to successfullytransition from being a
professional rugby union playerto work in finance.
So let's start with thattransition.
How has it been?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, it's been really, really good.
I mean, obviously, when wefirst caught up I was in the job
searching mode introduced byChris Clayton from L1 and, yeah,
everything moved very, veryquickly from there.
So I had a neck injury that putmy rugby career a little short.
I probably could.
I should still be playing atthe age I am I'm only 33 at the
(00:52):
moment but thankfully, duringrugby I put a big emphasis on
studying and I think I learnedthat early on through the
Western Force and playing forthem for the first season.
A lot of those guys were alwaysstudying.
There was a lot of balance, Ithink, in rugby back then and,
(01:14):
like I said, big emphasis onsomething outside of rugby.
So I studied business at thatpoint, switched to commerce and
then realized I like financialplanning and now have one
subject to go to finish myMaster's in financial planning.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, so you talk about the big emphasis on
studying at the Western Falls.
Yeah, how old were you at thatpoint and how much of that is
player-led, individual-led.
So players as a collective-led,individual-led or the club-led?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, I think I would say back then.
It's a combination ofeverything.
So I think the player influenceis probably first and foremost,
and there were a lot of playersthere that were heavily focused
and a little bit older andalready thinking about the next
part of the process.
And you know, you regularly gettold in rugby this isn't
(02:11):
forever.
You know you've got to come upwith a plan B and it could
happen at any time.
You know, a quote from one ofmy good friends, scott
Higginbotham, is you know, playevery game like it's your last
because it could be you couldget injured.
You know, from the gametomorrow, from a training
session, and then all of asudden, if you don't have
somewhat an insurance policywhich is a backup in the
(02:35):
workforce, then you're going tobe stuck right.
And in saying that, like, say,you do have a fulfilling career
and I think I did, in the sensethat I had played 14 years
professionally- yeah, and whatwould be the average career
length of a rugby player?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Would it be less than that?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I would say it's probably between six to
seven.
Like there are so many playersthat I know that had to end
early through injury and thereare some that do very well and
they'll continue on up toprobably 39, which is incredible
.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Such a physically demanding sport.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, it makes it tricky.
So I think, scott, you knowyou've always got to have some
sort of idea of what you want todo outside, because, okay,
let's say it is what's for mefor the 14 years professionally.
You know I'm only 33 now,that's you still have a long
time to go before, you know, youretire.
(03:36):
And you know it's a littlenaive to think, you know, I'm
just going to play rugby, I'mgoing to make enough money and
then that's me done.
I think that you've really gotto.
You know, it depends onpersonality.
So some would stay in rugby andlove rugby, so much to the
point where they would thenstudy, you know, coaching and
(04:00):
start getting involved in thatside of the business and, you
know, as their body would breakdown.
There was even some hybridcontracts where some players
would be available when theycould, but they'd also be
involved in the coaching sidetoo.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Was that ever a consideration for you,
transitioning into rugby not asa player, but as maybe a coach
or, as you know, within themedia?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, it wasn't really for me.
With the media stuff, I neverreally well.
Firstly, I think the media isreally for those guys Unless
you're, you know, absolutelyincredible at it.
I think it's reserved for thosewho are the absolute stars, and
as it should be.
That's what drives interest.
(04:44):
But for myself I thought, um,you know, continuing on and
being a coach or something alongthose lines, it just didn't
interest me enough.
You know, I did see thecoaching staff and that, the
hours they would have to do, andI just didn't get that same
satisfaction out of rugby as theway they did.
(05:06):
So for me, I would always.
You know, some guys would say Iwould be first in, first out.
It wasn't always along thoselines.
I was more of a I want to bethere, be effective, get what I
can out of this and go and spendtime with my family or spend
time working on somethingoutside, because that's what got
(05:27):
the best out of my rugby.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, and it's often that you hear from professional
sports people that they get thebest out of their career when
they've actually got a youngfamily and they get purpose
outside of sport.
So, like you said, come in, dowhat you need to do and
ultimately get out so you canspend time with family outside
of sport.
So, like you said, come in, dowhat you need to do and
ultimately get out.
So, you can spend time withfamily or pursue interests
(05:49):
elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, definitely.
And you know, on a Wednesday,which would be technically our
day off, that would be ourSaturday, sunday I'd often bring
my kids in because they were ata great age where, you know,
they weren't at school Kreishwas here and there so then I
would bring the kids in.
They used to love um coming in.
There'd be massages on that day, or there'd be guys watching
(06:12):
some footage from training orgames and um, they'd meet all
the staff and and throw a ballaround.
So it's nice to have thoseexperiences.
But I I wish that, I wish Icould have continued on for a
few more years, just becausethey're now at that age where
they say, oh, I really wish youwere doing that, dad.
Like we're now, you know, 9, 7,and we've just had our newborn
(06:33):
daughter named Elodie, so she'sfour months old.
But the older kids, they're nowat that age where they're like
come on, dad, like can't youjust like put the boots back on,
let's go watch you play rugby.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And how much you're talking about your children, and
they are quite young, yeah, buthow much time do you talk to
them about?
You know what they want to doin their career, whether it be
professional sport, or would itbe, you know, a profession
outside of sport, or maybe acombination of two, throughout
their journey.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, look, I think it's probably too early in the
piece, but I've always thoughtextracurricular is really
important, whatever it is.
It doesn't have to be sport.
It could be a musicalinstrument, like my daughter's
doing piano.
They both do basketball.
(07:24):
Basketball seems to be thenumber one sport in Melbourne.
I think that's down to a fewreasons, one being the fact that
the hoop height's lower for thelower ages, and then it's
indoor, which is what we allneed down here in miserable
winter Melbourne.
So, yeah, look, it's certainlynot a.
It's not a.
(07:45):
Let's find a way to put you ina professional sport.
It's a.
What's your interest?
How much do you enjoy it?
And then let's find some drivefrom that.
Like, my daughter is lovingreading, reading books so
quickly, so you know she mightbe academic.
My wife's studying medicineshe's already talking about and
(08:05):
so my father-in-law's a vascularsurgeon.
So, um, I can see her brainalready ticking over saying I
want to work with mom, like shemight work with, you know, my
granddad, you know that's that'sthe.
That's where she's looking at asa nine-year-old, so I guess
it's play it by ear don't leaveevery door open at this point,
(08:26):
and then we'll see what theywant to do from there.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, no, that's really insightful.
So it's interesting because itprobably comes back to you when
you were maybe not nine, butmaybe 14 or 15 and playing rugby
at school.
Yeah, so at what point in yourjuvenile life did you realise
that professional sport islikely and that you're going to
(08:51):
allocate the majority of yourtime to becoming a professional
sports person?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, I'll take it back a step.
So, growing up, I think I wasfive I wanted to play rugby.
My father played rugby and Ithought, oh, that looks like fun
, I want to get involved in arough sport like that.
At that stage I didn't evenhave under fives, I had under
seven, so I barely touched theball all season and it was more
a case of just running aroundand feeling like I was amongst
(09:19):
it.
Then all my friends playedsoccer.
I played soccer and then it gotto a stage where, you know, I
felt like I outgrew soccer,excuse me, um.
And then, you know, rugbybecame an option to play club.
So I played, uh, club rugby atsay, would have been like 10 10
(09:39):
years old.
And then, yeah, continuing that, I went to some pious St Pius
in Sydney and that was the sportthat they played, which was
rugby.
Not that we were by any meansamazing at it.
We actually had an amazinggroup that we could play that
played pretty well, and one ofthe guys in that team was
(09:59):
Michael Hooper.
So we went to school togetherand played through all the ranks
together.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So similar, same age.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Same age, same age, like he would play seven.
I'd play the sixth or secondrow, usually thrown in the
second row because I was quitetall.
But, yeah, played throughoutand I really never saw it as a
professional job, I would say,up until I was 16.
So it wasn't like it wasn'tsomething that I'd actually
considered to be a pathway oranything like that.
(10:29):
It was just something I reallyenjoyed.
And what I found the mostsatisfying was always playing at
the next level as one, achallenge with two.
I felt more comfortable andfelt like it was more exciting
and more intense and thepressure was on further and
that's something I reallythrived in.
(10:51):
So I probably didn't get pickedvery often in the lower age
groups Playing Gordon Juniors Iwas typically never in which was
the representative side of theclub rugby system in the North
Shore of Sydney.
So I yeah, it wasn't until Iwas 16 that I actually made the
(11:12):
Australian merit team that isnamed that side, and from there
that was when I really found adrive to go okay, this might be
a job, this might be something Iwant to pursue, but at the same
time I knew my studies werestill important and, funnily
enough, I didn't take school tooserious up until probably 16,
(11:34):
17.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, I guess, like most people Like most people,
yeah, especially boys All youwant to do is play sport.
There's nothing new yet there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course,yeah.
So, and how important washaving Michael Hooper?
Was he a gun as a?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Always.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So having him to obviously play with and
obviously set a high standard,did that help you with your
development?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, I think he was always very, very good.
I think he was always very,very good and the guys in our
under 16, 15, 16, whatever agegroup it was that year we used
to win most competitions.
I think that probably played apart.
It was a very competitive groupand everyone was striving to
(12:24):
outachieve each other and thecoach at the time would always
put up a ranking system foreveryone to see how they
performed that week and it waspretty strict.
So, yeah, I think that probablyplayed a part to that as well.
But it then came a time where Istarted to really enjoy playing
in the older age groups andtrying to challenge myself to
play above my age.
(12:45):
So I was 15, I was trying toplay under 17s for St Ives.
Uh, when I was, when I was 16,I went straight to the first for
school and didn't continue onwith that group and really loved
playing against older kids andand, yeah, like said, I
thoroughly enjoyed trying tochallenge that and trying to
(13:06):
challenge play with groups whowere much older than me and got
great satisfaction out of tryingto dominate those guys.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And at what age were you when you received your first
professional contract and canyou share some details of that
contract?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, yeah, sure, so it was funny.
So Hooper and I were both.
We actually have the same agent.
His name's Andrew Fairburn.
He identified both of us whenwe were in.
I believe it was either anunder-16s championship, national
championship, and we bothsigned with him.
(13:46):
We both had options to go tothe Waratahs or to the Brumbies
and the Western Forth.
It was called a pro academycontract, so call it maybe 15,
16 grand, but they'll put you upand if you play a few games,
you know it's sort of the usualprocess for that age group.
(14:06):
So how old?
At this point we would havebeen 17.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So we were in like year 11.
This is the conversation forwhen we finish year 12, what we
would do after that.
So the options were all quitethe same.
The Brumbies had the bestprogram.
So we were both leaning towardsthe Brumbies.
None of us, we weren't veryinterested in joining the
(14:32):
Waratahs At that stage.
The Waratahs was very much a youdo your time.
You know, it didn't feel likewe would ever get a go.
It just felt like we would bepart of the system.
And we saw that with a fewother guys who were just cogs in
the wheel and it was more orless do your time, whereas the
Brumbies and the Western Forcewere if you're ready, we'll
(14:54):
throw you in.
So that was appealing to us.
On the back of that and on theback of the Western Force,
learning that I was leaningtowards the Brumbies, they upped
the deal of the.
The western force, learningthat I was leaning towards the
brumbies, they upped the deal tothe rookie contract, which was
you know, I don't know, probablydouble the money and you know
you were actually part of themain squad.
(15:14):
So that immediately got myattention and and I knew there
was a lot of great talent overthere, like james o'connor was
there at the time uh, nathansharp.
Nathan sharp was someone wassomeone that I'd watched very
closely over the years and hewas a captain of Australia and
did some incredible things forrugby and I still keep in touch
(15:35):
with him on and off to this dayand was a great mentor.
So it made sense for me.
They flew me over, they flew myparents over, they showed me
how it worked.
They had one of the I guess oneof the supporters, main
supporters of the club.
He had me stay with them for,however long it took me to get
(15:56):
on my feet.
So pretty daunting to go from, Iguess, the east coast to the
west coast, when it's quite afaraway spot, like it does feel
like its own country.
But I, you know, loved itimmensely and thought the people
there are lovely, perth's agreat spot.
The team were very good and wehad a lot of injuries that year,
(16:21):
which meant I got to play fourgames for the Western Force,
which was pretty cool at 18years old.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yeah, so going from a student playing with mates to
becoming a professional sportsperson, yeah.
What were the biggest learningsfor you for that transition?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think the biggest learnings for me and if anyone
who was part of that, I think Iwalked in and thought, you know
I've captained a few teams inthe school level.
So I captained my school,captained New South Wales
schools.
You know was a leader of theAustralian school boys team that
(16:57):
travelled two years in a rowand I walked in and I remember
the first line-out session or,you know, forward session and
you know I'm there makingcomments in the team huddle,
thinking that you know I'm in aposition to be talking but
realistically, I should havejust been listening and learning
(17:17):
and you know a lot of thoseguys would make jokes about that
, like throughout the year andstill this day they laugh about
that moment that I thought itwas appropriate for me just to
throw my two bob in, but the youknow it was an incredible
experience and like just goingto, honestly, the best thing
(17:39):
about going to Western First wasgoing there.
All the guys were very,including they would bring me
along to coffees and catch-upsand I would just sit there and
they would talk about suchinteresting things Like it
wasn't.
They were very engagingconversations about.
You know what are we doing from?
How are we improving the game.
(18:01):
You know how are we improving,how we're looked after as
players.
What are we improving the game?
You know how are we improving,how are we looked after as
players.
What are we doing outside?
It was quite an eye-opener tosee.
You'd expect players just to betalking about I don't know,
just very mediocre conversations.
But rugby unions always had theluxury, I guess, of it being a
(18:23):
private school dominatedenvironment and yeah, I feel
like that showed through a lotof the conversations outside of
rugby.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And is that what sparked your interest in
business and commerce?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I think it definitely played a part.
Definitely played a part.
I think that, plus my parentsalways trying to push that and
my grandmother always pushingthat, there's something more to
rugby and you've got you guys tostudy as well.
At that stage I was juststudying business and thought
(18:56):
you know that that's thedirection I want to go down, and
I was more of a box ticketer atthat point.
It probably wasn't until maybethree or four years later that I
started to realize and alsosorry, going to the Rebels and
having another group of guys whowere the average age then would
(19:16):
have been like 29.
It was an old group and that'swhat was needed because it was
inaugural season and theybrought in a lot of heavyweights
and a lot of guys who were atthe sort of end of their career
but had a great name forthemselves.
So guys like Al Campbell, who,quite successful outside of
rugby as he was in, and a bit ofa journeyman like myself,
(19:42):
played in France for some time,played for the Wallabies a
little bit, so not toodissimilar to myself.
Also, another tall guy, locke,same position.
So as much as he taught me alot about rugby, he taught me a
lot about what I should be doingoutside of rugby.
So I think that there's alwaysbeen a great level of support
(20:04):
for that inside and outsiderugby.
I think that just comes alwaysbeen a great level of support
for that inside and outsiderugby.
I think that just comes fromthe players more than anything
because you know the coachingstaff will say you know we need
you to do stuff outside.
I did find the older I got andthe more professional rugby
became and the more pressure Ibelieve coaches are under for
(20:27):
performance, the less theyfocused on what we were doing
outside.
It was how much can we get youto come into the club and how
much can we get you to liverugby like we do?
Because as coaches we're here24 7 and we don't see the same
from the players.
But I've found it's hard tobreak down.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
There is a balance that's needed yeah, well,
ultimately a coach is, is theirperformance is judged on the,
the team's performance 100they're not judged on how well
you're doing outside and have asuccessful career outside of
rugby.
So you know it's.
There is a.
You know you are a professionalsports person, you're a
(21:07):
professional coach and their jobis to get the best out of the
team, but your job is to also bemindful around.
What is the?
What is the plan beyondprofessional sport?
100%, yeah definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
But I do think that the pressure has been mounting
and I think that if I just takeit back 14 years from the
Western Force to the first yearof the Rebels to now, it
definitely ramped up.
You know, like when I came backto the Rebels and everybody was
(21:40):
in the club on the day off, Ithink that was when I thought,
wow, this is not the excuse me,this is not the environment that
I've been a part of previouslyor seen.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
so yeah you talk about environment and I want to
pivot the conversation a littlebit Sure.
You talk about environment andI want to pivot the conversation
a little bit Sure.
Environment in a professionalas a professional sports person
seems very structured.
You know where you need to be,when you need to be, maybe
(22:14):
nutrition as well, recovery, etcetera Whereas as a professional
in financial services would yousay it's less structured.
And how have you been able toadapt from a very structured
environment to maybe a lessstructured?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
environment?
Yeah, that's a good question.
I would say you're right, it isless structured.
I would say you're right, it isless structured, it's more.
There's a more onus on yourselfme to go out there and find
meetings, especially in a BDMrole, to, you know, drum up new
business and find, you know,find funds for the new deal
(22:57):
we're doing, or to, I guess,build a network that you can
then rely on for raising capitalon syndicates that we're
looking at at Faulkner Property.
So it's much more of a you haveto take the ownership.
It's on you, whereas I believethat early days of rugby or
sorry, when you're not a leaderin rugby, it's very much a
here's the schedule, here's this, here's that.
(23:19):
But as you become a leader inthose clubs, you know you have
more of a say on right.
Well, this is how we should doit and this is what we can
benefit from.
And I think it comes morenaturally towards the end of
rugby where your opinion doescount, because you have such
good experience in rugby.
Your opinion does count becauseyou have such good experience
(23:39):
in rugby and you're taking that.
You're taking your experienceand you're taking your views and
you're turning it into a leaderaspect of the team and so, as
much as it is all structured,and here's your passport.
They give you your passport,they give you everything and, um
(24:00):
, I was always very much, uh, Ilike to have my opinion, I like
to, I like to be able to, totake charge of things, and if I
have an opinion of how I thinksomething will work and how we
can get the best out of the team, I wasn't afraid to say to a
trainer or a high-performancecoach or the head coach or the
(24:22):
forwards coach and say, hey,this is how we should run the
line out this week, this is howwe're going to beat them in this
regard.
Or I think that we've probablyover-trained the start of the
week.
I think if we back off the backof the end of the week, we will
freshen up for this match, orthere's been a longer turnaround
.
So I think you could really getstuck into us in this part of
the week.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So not too dissimilar to corporate life where you
know when you are a graduateright.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's very structured.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
This is what you do, but as you become a leader you
start to influence the structureand the direction and the
strategy of the business.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, exactly right, fabian, it's exactly right.
So I think that if you were toend your career short and you've
only played five to seven yearsI think you'd feel a little bit
fish out of water and I thinkyou would struggle.
I think it would be a struggle.
I think even then there's stilla lot of players who are
(25:19):
mercenaries and they'll get tothe end of their career and you
know, the best thing they can doand provide for the team is
just, honestly, to work hard andtake direction.
So I don't think thatnecessarily.
You know, this job is foreveryone and a lot of my
teammates inside and outsiderugby, you know, do struggle or
(25:40):
are doing a completely differentpath to what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, and what advice would you give to someone that
is maybe your 21-year-old self?
Yeah, yeah, maybe just paint apicture where you're a 21, and
what advice would you give toyourself a 21, that you know now
as a 33 year old, that's, youknow, having a successful career
within financial services?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
yeah, I would think sometimes I was probably a
little bit opinionated and Ithought that I could offer an
opinion on things that wereprobably a little bit out of my
reach for in terms of where theteam should go and how we should
do things, whereas there was somuch abundance of opinions and
(26:24):
I guess it was on the other sideof that there was always a lot
of guys in that team at theRebels at the start, who were
older heads and everybody had anopinion, which I think you need
a balance of young guys to oldguys.
I think we eventually got that.
But I think more or less soakit up, listen and take in
(26:46):
everything, write notes, walkaway from coffees and write down
a couple of things you learned.
I think it's probably the mainthing I would suggest is always
having a notepad, and it's notalways just for I would suggest
is always having a notepad, andit's not always just for rugby,
it could be for anything.
You might hear something inconversation and go.
I find that really interesting.
(27:06):
I'll write that down, find outsome more information on that
later.
It could be a number of things,but I think soak it up early on
and train as hard as possible.
I think you get a lot morerespect from your peers by just
putting your head down, bum upand going as hard as possible
(27:28):
with training and then outside,and then so going further
through the career, you startreaping the benefits of you know
, learning from those guys andtaking on that information and,
like I said, soaking upinformation and, before you know
it, you're now one of the olderguys and some of the young guys
(27:48):
look towards you and I thinkthat's a real opportunity for
you then to try and pass thatwisdom that you've received onto
them, and I think if you can dothat, I think you'll have a
pretty successful career inwhatever you do after.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, and at what age were you when you decided that?
Well, obviously you mentionedpreviously around having an
injury, which sort of playedyour cards for you, but you must
have been thinking in advanceof that injury where you'd go
next.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So when was that?
Was there a specific point intime?
Well, it seems like you've justevolved from joining the force
at a young age, but was there aspecific point in time where you
realised what you wanted to doand when that would likely take
place?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
yeah, good question.
So, like I said, startedstudying business, didn't know
what I wanted to do.
I started in sports managementbut I didn't have enough love
for the, for sport, to reallywarrant going into that after
rugby.
So I quickly pivoted andthought, right, right, it looks
like I enjoy finance.
I became a little bitself-obsessed with my own
(29:04):
portfolio and what I was doingbecause, you know, I was always
conscious of the fact that.
You know, rugby is a shortwindow.
You make some great money.
What do you do with that to tryand set yourself up so that
you're in a pretty strongposition as you finish?
So, you know, through the yearsof investing in, you know
commercial, not commercial, myproperty and residential
(29:26):
property, investment properties.
You know ETFs, the markets,equities, all of that, and then
other businesses along the way.
All of that and then otherbusinesses along the way.
So, from that starting commerce, not really knowing about
(29:47):
financial planning and what thatwas, but realising I was kind
of doing a version of it, anunadvised version of it I then
started doing subjects incommerce that related to
financial planning and that'swhen it really struck and I
would say that's probably 20,that's probably 26.
So up until then I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do, which is
(30:09):
quite um.
I always find it quite hard forthose who aren't in
professional sport, who are justdoing a degree and not not
exactly knowing what to do next.
I think it's so tough to knowwhat exactly it is that makes
you drive.
It gives you drive and I feellike when you finish school, as
you're finishing school, it'slike what do you want to do?
(30:30):
What do you want to do?
I think we we put a lot ofpressure on on the youth to come
up with that answer reallyquickly and you can see people
pivot pretty quickly and youknow it's very difficult to know
what you want to do.
But so fast forward to 26, 27,.
I started focusing more onfinancial planning and finished
(30:52):
my degree in commerce and thenstarted my master's in financial
planning.
I could have done anothermaster's, but I thought I was
very much if this is what I wantto do, and I knew at this stage
that you know the industry offinancial services was going
through a very big transition,with the Royal Commission and
(31:12):
you know a lot of advisorsstepping out and there being a
huge undersupply of advisors inthe country.
So I felt like that was a greatposition for me, just to double
down and and continue on withthe masters rather than, um,
putting eggs in differentbaskets.
So so it was at that point thatI actually um, so we'll fast
(31:36):
forward again.
So that's when I knew I wantedto be a financial advisor, which
is not what I'm doing now.
But I originally applying atGarno Private Wealth to be, you
know, involved in their business, involved as a, you know, first
year, and you probably knowthis.
You have to do associateprofessional year, first year,
(31:58):
and you probably know this youhave to do associate
professional year.
But, as we all know, it's atough slog to start and,
fortunately enough for me, patScarno, who is my boss,
approached me and said you coulddo that.
It's going to be a tough slog.
You're going to have to gothrough absolute, you know some
(32:21):
turmoil to get to where you wantto be and you know I hear that
a lot from advisors, because thegreat thing is about my job is
I get to meet everyone.
Now I get to meet all theadvisors of the industry and it
is.
It's a tough slog to start butthere's some great benefit, you
know, if you're good at it andyou put enough time into it.
Having a young family.
(32:41):
His suggestion was come andstart with us as a business
development manager.
You will raise capital.
It's going to be very excitingand dynamic.
You're going to meet everyonein the financial services
industry and you'll hit theground running and we can
reassess down the track.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yep and you've had a quite a smooth transition from
what I've seen, and we've caughtup a few times in the last
couple of years.
So what has been thedifficulties in your current
role or biggest learnings overthe last couple of years?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think the biggest learning yeah, and look, it was
a really tough first six months,like, as an example and this is
back to everything being handedto you in rugby had never sent
an email invite.
So been sent you know a stack,or actually been just been sent
(33:39):
templates of what the days looklike and what your month look
like, but never actually had tosend an invite.
It was always just a textmessage of I'll meet you there.
Yeah, um, and patch startedintroducing me to a couple of
their BDMs, so they showed methe ropes and then he said just
just send them an emailinvitation.
I said I don't know what you'retalking about.
So it was a steep learningcurve.
(34:03):
Despite all the studies in theworld you can do, nothing will
prepare you for a real job.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah, it's almost that corporate culture
transition, yeah, which youlearn as maybe a 22 year old
graduate.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Correct, but you're expected to know as a 31 year
old professional, correct, butluckily, you know, through his
mentorship and through a lot ofthe guys in the office who were
willing to put the time into me,picked it up quick enough.
It helps that you're a goodbloke.
Yeah, hopefully that's whatthey say.
(34:46):
And yeah, picked it up prettyquickly, I believe.
And yeah, look, I think thatexpectation of, I guess, coming
in and learning quickly on thatfront.
And then the other one was, Iguess, not realising how much
money is in the system and howmuch private money you know is
(35:11):
within that, I guess thatwholesale space, which is what
we focus on, and you know, anexpectation of raising.
I believe it was 30 mil.
My first year.
That number just went straightover my head in terms of I was
in a little bit disbelief of howam I supposed to achieve this
and what does this actually looklike?
(35:33):
Mind you, though, so patch sentthrough this is leading into
the job, and I guess this isprobably what I pride myself on
when I entered Faulkner.
So I went through the interviewprocess with him and his old
man, chris.
Chris is the founder and ownerof the business.
(35:53):
They sent through all the trustupdates for all the trusts that
we have, and I'll just try tomake it clear.
So we're a commercial propertysyndicate and we're an unlisted
closed trust and we're up totrust number 31 now, but at the
time we're up to trust number 21.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, so for our listeners, you effectively buy
an asset, a property, and thenyou raise capital to settle that
property, and then theinvestors invest in that
property and then they receivedistributions and then, if you
sell that property at a laterpoint in time, any capital gain
they'll receive in addition tothat.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
It's all equal structured units.
There's no preference units oranything.
So the founders are the largestinvestors.
They put in 10% to 15% in everydeal we do and we now have
about $3.6 billion in assets andmanagement.
When I joined, we were sittingat just over two.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Wow.
So we've had a busy eight, ninemonths.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
It's almost doubled within two years.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And there's been huge opportunities at those shopping
centres that are daily needsfocused, so non-discretionary,
and they're sort of between,let's call it, 100 to 500 mil.
There's been a liquidity problemat that level and then there's
been large institutions whoneeded redemption.
So hence why we've beenextremely active, hence why
(37:18):
we've been extremely active.
So, if I take it back, sojoining and this is the
expectation of coming in it wasto raise if we had a syndicate
and, like you said, it's usuallya two to three month window and
the benefit that we offer isusually the best terms.
But we'll try and offer thelowest price possible we can at
(37:42):
that price so we can try andachieve an IRR of, say, 15% or
above.
That's the catalyst of a dealfor us.
Now this is where it getsinteresting, because we offer
the best terms and because it'susually there's never a subject
capital raise, so the pressure'son to raise the money.
So I love that aspect becauseit's very similar to rugby.
(38:03):
It felt like when we're inraise mode it feels like I'm in
a rugby game and it feels likeevery.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
You've got 80 minutes to get the best result, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And so it'll be a case of we've got to raise 50
mil, we've got to raise 100 mil,we've got to raise 200 mil,
We've got to raise 50 mil, we'vegot to raise 100 mil, we've got
to raise 200 mil.
We've got two months to get thefunds allocated, money in,
application forms in, and we'llsettle, yeah, in two to three
months.
From that point.
So it's pretty exciting, whenit's on, it's on and when it's
(38:34):
off it's building the networkfor the next one, and so I love
that aspect of it.
So when I joined, it would havebeen three or four weeks in and
they were like we've bought thisproperty settlement city in
Port Macquarie, we need you toraise 10 mil.
And I was.
Thankfully, there was a portionof clients that I had been
(38:55):
given and there was anexpectation that I was going to
bring on some new clients.
I would say the initial raisingpercentage would have been, say
, 80% existing and 20% new.
And you know, the more I got myfeet on the desk, the more time
(39:16):
in the saddle that percentagebecame better and better in
favour of new funds and newgroups that I was talking to,
and there's nothing moresatisfying of getting that
onboarded new client that you'veestablished through your own
network and been referred tofrom someone that you know, and
(39:37):
there's nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And is that what you most enjoy about your job?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, definitely, that's definitely the biggest
benefit of the job, I believe,is finding capital from your own
network or established throughyour own prospecting and cold
calling and you know so forth,yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
And, as we look up to wrap up this conversation, I've
really enjoyed it.
One thing that fascinates me isyour identity.
Obviously, you've been known asa professional sports person
for 14 years.
You've been known as aprofessional sports person for
14 years played for theWallabies, played in France,
played in Melbourne, played inPerth and then transitioned into
(40:30):
a finance professional, whereyou want to be taken seriously
as a finance professional, butmaybe people still identify you
as a rugby professional.
Yeah, how has been thetransition to change your
identity and being now respectedas a finance professional
versus a rugby professional?
Are you talking me through thatjourney?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
It's a good question.
Um, I don't think that I had tochange my persona or change my
appearance in terms of wearing asuit, but I didn't have to
change a whole stack of things,I think you know, definitely,
(41:08):
starting the job was dauntingand coming on board was
certainly a challenge, and it'sstill challenging.
It should be challenging.
That's why we do it.
If we didn't have challenges,we would become complacent and
it would become too repetitive.
And I think that's the greatthing about rugby is that you're
always looking for what's nextand what's next for how to grow
(41:32):
and how to become better.
And I walk away from meetingsstill and go what could I have
done better there?
And I do treat it like a gamein that respect.
But to answer your questionwould what have I?
Yeah, the persona thing, likeit's really been the same thing.
It's, I guess, yeah, askingdifferent questions and
(41:56):
structuring questions andanswers to find out more I can
about those investors and seewhat they're looking for to
invest in and you know how dothey look at their overall
portfolio and what aspect ofthat is income driven and what
aspect of that is capital growthand then how much are they
allocating to property asopposed to, because you know, as
(42:17):
you know, as Australians, weall love our residential
property, so some can be prettyoverweight in that market
already.
So then it's, you know whatelse, what is it they're looking
for as an investment?
And I guess it's something thatsometimes I guess from my
parents it's always been a tabooconversation of talking about
finances so openly and so umforthcoming.
(42:41):
But that's you don't.
You don't improve in that areawithout sharing those answers
and and sharing your ownposition.
And I've certainly shared myviews and and how I and I speak
to it with a lot of players whoare still playing and I get
phone calls all the time from Iget a lot of phone calls from
(43:02):
players who are still playingand they ask you know, how are
you going?
Because you know, to be quitefrank, there are a lot of guys
who are struggling.
And that's not to say I'm nothaving days where I'm certainly
searching and trying to findwhat I can get out of it.
(43:22):
But I think writing down goalsand writing down goals is
important, but also writing downa to-do list for the day, the
week, the month and mapping thatout.
I think that certainly helpsand gives good direction.
I think direction is probablykey, from someone who's been
giving their passport to a teammanager for 14 years.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, because it is.
You know it can be easy to losea sense of purpose.
You know, when you're used tobeing in the media and everyone
acknowledging you and knowingwho you are and wanting to get
your autograph, and kids comingup to you.
All of a sudden, then youretire from that sport and you
transition or create your nextcareer.
(44:06):
What is that?
What does that mean?
Am I as valued as I started?
I was the top of the top andnow, all of a sudden, I'm asking
how to set the calendar in fire.
I feel a little bit useless.
So it is.
It's a transition.
It is, and it's just a matterof being okay with not knowing
everything and learning.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, and I'd say I lean on my wife, maddie, heavily
for a soundboard and someone totalk to through this.
Like I'll give you a realexample Last night, you know I
couldn't sleep and you know youstart thinking about rugby and
(44:47):
like there was times there whereI certainly didn't miss the
training and I certainly didn'tmiss some of the meetings which
I would find counterproductive.
If we would be sitting therefor, say, an hour and a half or
two hours and you know theattention span of players is
probably, I would say, 30, 40minutes at best.
So you'd have guys who are Ialways give the example of.
(45:09):
We'd walk away from a meetingand I'm like what are three
things that you could take outof that meeting?
And a lot of players wouldstruggle to.
And that was more the clubaspect or the professional club
aspect, not the WallabyInternational level where guys
are just completely on themeetings are.
You know, it's just a higherlevel.
So there's a lot more on theline.
(45:35):
But I would say that with goingthrough rugby and going through
that, like I said, like with mywife, there are times where I do
feel like what am I doing?
You know I miss rugby, I missplaying especially, and
(45:56):
sometimes I feel like I have nopurpose.
Or you know you just you feellike you're off the, off the
path, or you know it feelsobviously very foreign.
It's it's two years into.
You know the, the, the nextpart of your life, next chapter,
sorry, next chapter, whereasyou know you've just been in a
14 year stint where you've livedin France for five years, in a
(46:18):
14-year stint where you've livedin France for five years and
that was a big one for us wherewe lived in Bordeaux and Paris.
So there are times where youdefinitely need someone to talk
to regularly and I think that ifplayers don't have that in a
partner or if they're notmarried, and I think speaking to
someone outside professionallyis probably a pretty smart
option, because I still think,despite and not to sound, trying
(46:44):
to sound humble, but likesomeone who's transitioned well,
there's still times where I'mstill finding challenges.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So I think it's okay to not feel great.
Oh, totally I don't feel.
Sometimes I wake up in themorning and feel like I really
want to do what I do.
Right.
And then I get here.
I love what I do, but you do gothrough those.
You know mental battles and Ithink most people do to just get
up and to perform at that elitelevel.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, and and you know I said the exact quote I
said last night was the biggestqualm I had was I'd feel sore
going home Cause I train all day.
I know what I have to do thenext day.
It's going to be sore, it'sgoing to be this.
Then I got, you know, theweekly process and now at the
moment I'm not even trainingbecause my wife's studying
(47:29):
medicine and those hours arejust ridiculous.
And now we've got three kids.
So it's a real balance at themoment it's just trying to find
time to get back into the gym orget back into some sort of
activity, because I do thinkthat really helps your mental
health.
And, yeah, I probably need tostart running and doing
(47:50):
something again.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
We can go for a run together, mate.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah, we'll do the 10 after this.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Yeah, that's great.
And the last question I havefor you is is there someone that
comes to mind of big influenceon your professional career, be
it rugby, but also professionalcareer and financial services?
Speaker 2 (48:09):
now, I'd say there's probably two.
One would be my father-in-law,who played for the Wallabies,
played part of the 84 Grand Slamwinning team.
He's a vascular surgeon,someone who has four kids I
(48:29):
married the youngest of his fourand he's always been a great
sounding board and someone who'shelped with a lot of rugby.
But then in the transitionperiod where he lives in
Melbourne as well, and up untila few weeks ago I was training
with him, but he trains at astupid hour in my opinion, which
(48:49):
is 6 am, which doesn't soundthat early, but when you're
someone who likes to stay uplate and prefers to be a night
owl as opposed to an early bird.
But he's someone who you know,I can call it a drop of the hat
and he'll always help me getthrough some things and offer a
(49:10):
different perspective and prettywell-rounded bloke.
The other one would be andfunnily enough so I met John
Eales when I was maybe nine orten, met him with my grandfather
, who he bought two tickets to aluncheon where it was intimate,
(49:30):
maybe 15 people and you know,met him, talked to him for a
little bit and then it wasn'tuntil I was probably in the
Wallabies and saw him again andhe recognised my name, you know,
although generic, luke Jones,he still put two and two
together and caught up with himon and off over the years.
(49:51):
And you know, because John'svery successful in rugby but
outside rugby and John only hasa degree in arts, he doesn't, he
didn't go down the commercepath or you know, some sort of
specific study like that, butyou know he's an incredible
(50:11):
leader and he's been involvedwith a number of boards.
So he's been on Magellan foryears.
He's on Flight Centre.
He's involved with anothercouple of boards.
So he's been on Magellan foryears.
He's on Flight Centre.
He's involved in another coupleof businesses and I used to
catch up with him and we nevertalked rugby.
Rarely would talk rugby.
It would always be, you know,I'd ask him.
(50:32):
I finished commerce, what doyou think I should do next?
What do you think I shouldstudy next?
And you know, because hetravels the world constantly and
I was living in Paris, I wasactually in London for a match
and caught up in for breakfastfor two hours.
He always made the time to fitme in and then, since I've
arrived back and joined Fork,he's been someone that I've
(50:55):
caught up with several times andsomeone who's helped me with
referrals and introducing me tosome of his networks.
So you know that's been.
I would say he's been a mentorand so has my father-in-law to
an extent.
So those are two.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Well, thank you very much, Luke.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
I've enjoyed hearing your story, and I'm sure our
listeners will too, and we wishyou all the best in your second
career within financial services.
So thank you for coming in.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, it's nice to unpack it all and I probably
haven't thought about it indepth as much as this.
So thanks for asking so manyprovoking questions.
So appreciate it, Thanks forhaving me.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Cheers, mate.
Bye, that was great.
I love that.
Yeah, I'm mindful.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!