May 11, 2025 • 25 mins
What separates a great property purchase from a costly mistake? Ray Becher, Property Advisor and Senior Buyer's Agent at Cohen Handler, reveals the strategic depth behind successful property transactions that most buyers never consider.
Drawing on three generations of property knowledge, Ray takes us through his fascinating journey from performance studies graduate to marketing professional to trusted property advisor.
Ray's approach transcends simple transactions. He delves into the psychology of buying versus selling, explaining why understanding human motivation is crucial to negotiation.
For those considering a career pivot, Ray offers invaluable wisdom: surround yourself with mentors you can learn from, have confidence to back yourself regardless of age, and most importantly, pursue what genuinely inspires you. His philosophy that "it takes as long as it takes" to find the right property reflects the patience and expertise that have made him a standout in his field.
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast.
Whether you have followed usfrom the beginning or you're a
new listener, we are excited tohave you here.
Finance Friends gives ourlisteners a seat at the table
with successful finance industryleaders.
Follow us on our socials atFinance Friends Podcast, linked
in the description box of thisepisode, and stay tuned for
(00:29):
weekly episode releases.
Super excited to have Ray Becker, who's a senior property buyers
agent, on the podcast today.
He works at a business calledCohen Handler and he shared some
really great insights into howhe goes about being the trusted
(00:51):
advisor for people looking tobuy a property, whether it be an
investment or a family home.
On studying performance,performing arts and working in
marketing and events, beforetransitioning into being a
buyer's agent, running his ownbusiness for 10 years and now
(01:11):
joining Cohen Handler.
So really insightful Talksabout following his passion.
He comes from a family of threegenerations of property
investors and this is a greatopportunity to listen to Ray and
if you are really passionateabout something but you're not
working in that space, maybe Raycan help you to make that
transition smoothly.
Good morning, ray Becker.
(01:31):
Welcome to Finance Fred Podcast.
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Good morning, Fabian.
Thank you for having me Doingwell.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thank you for coming in.
We met not so long ago at anindustry event, which was great.
We had a good chat and you toldme about your background.
Are you currently working as asenior buyers agent in property?
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That's correct.
I've just joined the team atCohen Handler who've set up shop
here in Melbourne, so we're nowofficially national after 10
years of being self-employed,which is a nice transition.
Having, I guess, a boss for thefirst time in 10 years is a
little bit of a difference aswell, but a great team and a
whole new environment in termsof that buying advocacy space in
Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And what does a for an audience that doesn't know
what does a buyer's agentactually do?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
We do a whole gamut of things, but the end services
of what we provide are to buyyou the best house in the best
area at the best possible price.
I guess that's the end of thetransactional side, but before
that there's a whole lot ofconversations about the what,
the who, the when, the why, thequality of life versus wealth
creation, the strategic approachto buying property and all
(02:40):
those harder conversationsbefore people look pen to paper.
Because when the average entryinto the market is a million
dollars and then some inVictoria and Sydney, it's good
to have those conversationsprior and have those harder
conversations with our clientsto make sure that they're doing
the right thing strategically,financially and emotionally.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So I guess it's like running you never learn how to
run, but you end up running.
And a lot of people never learnhow to buy property, but almost
everyone buys a property.
So you help them the journey tounderstand property and the
process of what's involved inbuying a property.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
The running analogy is a very good one, because I've
just re-entered that space and,yes, anyone can run.
But you've got to listen toyour body, you've got to listen
to the environment, you've gotto listen to what people say.
The advice of those littletrinkets certainly make pounding
the pavement a lot easier.
It's a wonderful analogy,Fabian.
(03:41):
Yes, buying property is easy.
You go to an auction, stick upyour hand and as long as your
hand is the last one in the air,that asset is yours.
But a lot of people get it wrong.
A lot of people don't considerwhat they're about to commit to
around the finances or aroundthat journey, don't have an
understanding of thetransactional costs and you're
spot on.
(04:02):
Most people will buy one, twoor, if they're lucky, three
properties in their life whenthey're entering the market,
when they've got their familyhome and when they downsize at
the tail end of their life.
So if they're lucky, they'll doit three times a year.
But the reality of what I'veseen over the years is most
people will spend more timetrying on a pair of jeans or a
pair of shoes or looking at somenew AV equipment versus what
(04:25):
they'll do actually buying ahouse in terms of their due
diligence.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And what is your process?
So you talk about buying aproperty.
What is your process to buy aproperty?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
My process is more holistic, being a
third-generation property personunderstanding the ebbs and
flows of what the market can do.
There's harder conversationsaround, as I mentioned before,
the quality of life versuswealth creation and getting that
balance right.
For me, it's those questionsaround why are you buying?
What are you trying to achieve,where will you be in five years
(05:02):
, 10 years, 20 years, how theasset potentially fits into your
investment portfolio as wellstrategically as well as
objectively and making sure thatit ticks all the boxes for what
you're trying to achieve.
It's very easy to buy aproperty for $1 million, $2
million, $3 million and sell itfor the same amount in six
months' time, but thetransactional costs are quite
(05:26):
high in this state andnationally, so there's a cost
that comes with those mistakesas well.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, and obviously liquidity too, that you can't
just buy and sell a propertylike you can shares, shares or
gold or Bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
yeah, the liquidity around it is tied up.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's right, so do you?
Well, let's maybe take a stepback, because this is where you
are now, but you don't startwhere you are because you were
telling me before, when we had achat, that you studied.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Performance studies.
My first degree was inaudiovisual engineering.
Believe it or not, many, many,many years ago.
Second degree was inaudiovisual engineering, believe
it or not.
Many, many, many years ago.
Second degree was inperformance studies.
So I've got a background whichis in, I guess, what you call it
light performance, amateurtheatre, that sort of stuff, and
I really enjoyed it.
I found that space.
(06:20):
I went back to school as aslightly mature age I was 22 at
the time Got a degree inperformance studies, realised
there was a lot more talentedpeople out there than I was, and
if I was going to make a livingat it it was, you know, those
people before me and that wasthe reality of that industry in
the mid to late 90s sotransitioned sort of into the
(06:41):
back of house stuff which wasproduction, event management.
So transition sort of into theback of house stuff which was
production, event management,soundscapes, that sort of thing,
and that naturally led intominor events which organically
led into major events.
So I worked with some eventcompanies, was very fortunate to
do some major Mass Appealevents which had some records in
terms of participation inAustralia back in the day.
(07:02):
We'd set some records in termsof participation in Australia
back in the day and from theretransitioned into sponsorship
and marketing, which was just anatural segue from where I was
into the partnership space, intothe corporate alliances space
(07:26):
and spent many, many yearsbouncing around with some major
blue chip clients, a lot ofcontract work with Victorian
state government beveragecompanies, some chocolate
companies, and bounced aroundthere for about 10 years before
sort of focusing it back downinto again the partnership space
, but for not-for-profits.
So that was a quality of lifedecision, worked well, was back
in the country a bit more, it'snot so less travel, more time
with my wife at the time and wewere trying to start a family
(07:48):
which works well if you're inthe country and was working as a
partnerships manager for one ofthe biggest charity
organisations in the country atthe time Was made redundant,
which was a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Was that an opportunity?
Because I hear some people say,well, being made redundant
could be the blessing indisguise.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
In hindsight, 100% was.
We'd just had our first childand our second child
back-to-back, so they were veryclose, which gave the
opportunity for my wife to goback to work and I stayed at
home with the kids and afterabout six months an amazing
experience I was gettingrestless and she basically said
look, I don't care what you do,just go do something that fills
(08:31):
that void where you know you'rea man, you're a hunter, gatherer
go do something.
It's not about financials, it'sjust, you know, go find that bit
that fills that mental spot inyour brain.
Um, and as I mentioned beforebefore we started the podcast,
I'm third generation propertyand my parents immigrated out
post-war.
Uh, they bought property.
It was good to them.
We've got a lineage ofarchitects and draftsmen and
(08:53):
builders in the family.
So what I did was justinformally, I guess put a
business around what I was doingfor many, many years, which was
helping friends and family andmyself and our family buy
property, finding it, talkingabout it, negotiating it and
having that conversation aroundhow to leverage it short-term,
(09:14):
mid-term and long-term.
It was always supposed to be ahobby having that conversation
around how to leverage itshort-term, mid-term and
long-term.
It was always supposed to be ahobby.
Got my license, ticked a fewboxes and before I knew it, 10
years had passed Working formyself, built a very nice client
base, largely referral, a veryholistic approach.
You probably know this.
(09:34):
I swear a bit too much.
I'm brutally honest, I don'tpull my punches and what I
thought would be sort of anegative in terms of the
industry that I'm in it actuallyturned into quite a positive
because the clients appreciatedthe upfrontness.
They appreciated the honestyand over the years, just seeing
what the industry does, stayedaway from the people that were
(09:58):
negative or toxic or broughtattention unnecessary attention
to the industry and just alwaysfocused on the positives around
it.
It's about buildingrelationships, it's about
building friends and it's goingto sound a bit pretentious, but
I get to spend other people'smoney to buy property and that's
a privilege and an honor and Itreat it as my own money.
(10:20):
So it's a very simplephilosophy but it's served me
very well.
And after the 10 years of beingsolo, the opportunity came to
join a small but passionate teamunder the co-head of the brand
with a colleague of mine who Ihave a lot of respect for and
she's got a very similar ethosto what I does.
So it was largely working withher.
It was largely working with theopportunity around the brand
(10:42):
and it's a whole new sandpit toplay in, but doing exactly the
same thing.
So that's the abridged version.
I hope it wasn't too boring.
But you look back in hindsightand as a knock on the door of 50
this year, it was a veryorganic approach to get me to
where I am today and I probablyin hindsight if I had to go back
15 years or 17 years when Istarted, I'd probably go.
(11:02):
You know what?
You should have started thisearlier.
You should have given it a fewmore years, taken that leap of
faith and backed yourself anddone it.
But when I look back inhindsight, it's right place,
right time, right opportunityand everything's fallen into
place.
So hindsight's 20-20, as theysay, but that's where I am now.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I'll ask you the question, though If you're
obviously passionate about whatyou do and love what you do, and
it's great and thank you forsharing that if you were to
start that career at the age of22, do you think you'd still
have that level of passion, oris there a chance?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
maybe that it would have fizzled out Again, fabian,
with the benefit of hindsight, Ithink the passion was always
there.
It's encrusted into my DNA.
The property aspect I love it,I love talking about it, I love
being part of it.
Being on building sites,watching Dad grow up and take us
out to be part of it as wellall lay that legacy.
What I don't think I had atthat age was the experience and
(12:03):
understanding what thefinancials are, being able to
talk around that level of highnet worth individuals, just
having that communication andexperience which just comes with
age, and doing those amazingthings that I got to do over the
years talking with differentstakeholders, understanding what
people's objectives are, beingable to have honest
conversations with people andknowing that at the end of the
(12:24):
day, it's about assisting andbenefiting, but in a holistic
approach and not being afraid tolose a client, not being afraid
to have a hard conversation.
At a younger age, I think Iwould have been a little bit
more susceptible to pleasing,being influenced by the people
out there that were doing thingsthat were less scrupulous to
(12:45):
get money.
The industry is largelycommission-based and the more
sales you get, the more moneyyou get, and the industry was
very different 30 years ago towhat it is today.
It's evolved, it's changed,it's changing as we speak.
We're in the middle of arenaissance in terms of real
estate and how it's transactingwith the influence of AI and
everything else, and I thinkthat the foundation that I have
(13:08):
that got me to where I am todaywill overlay through any of
those new adaptations and giveme sort of a strength and
fortitude to grow into that.
We were talking before, when Icame in, just around podcasts
and sort of my naivety around.
You know how they reach, howthey work those sorts of things
too, and I'm a podcast virgin,so this is my first one.
Thank you for having me onboard.
Thank you for that.
There's a whole new level ofhow we do things, how we
(13:32):
transact, and if you work withthe right people and you work
with the right approach, I thinkthe finances will come
organically through that.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, and you're quite unique in terms of you
provide a high-touch service tooand you deal with you know you
could argue blue-chip locationswithin Melbourne.
So inner city or not in a city?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Southeast corridor.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Southeast corridor.
So your approach would be verydifferent to, maybe, a buyer's
agent that focuses on using AIto engage greater, bigger
audiences.
Yours is very bespoke in whatyou do.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There's.
Yes, you're absolutely right,it is a very personal-based
industry.
The algorithms can only do somuch in terms of acquiring the
information.
And the data is available sitsin the market.
(14:44):
You can work out yield, you canwork out capital growth fairly
straightforward throughtransactions, back historical
knowledge what the AI can't do.
And with the transactions ofbuying and selling property, the
psychology of buying andselling is very different.
When you're buying, you'requite frugal.
When you're selling, you'requite greedy.
And there's always a level ofpartnerships on both and the
(15:04):
agent is representing one andwe're representing the other the
advocacy side.
And once you understand thepsychology of why people are
selling because no one sellswithout an impetus you know it's
a downsizing or a death in thefamily or someone's passed away,
or divorce or unfortunatecircumstances there's always a
motivation for why people areselling.
And if you can understand thepsychology of the whys, it's not
(15:26):
necessarily always about theprice, it's about how you make
people's life easier and thepersonal touch of what we do.
And whether you're a firsthomeowner or you're a downsizer,
or you're lucky enough to be inthat mid to high-end corridor
and you're one of the privilegedones that can buy those large
size assets, the negotiationtactics vary, but the essence of
(15:48):
what we're dealing is justaround people base, so it's
knowing when to pull, knowingwhen to push.
It's not any different frombeing a lawyer or someone who
influences policy or any ofthose things.
It's knowing to get that bestoutcome that benefits all
parties.
There's no linear approach tohow we do it.
Every transaction is differentand if I'm doing one every two
(16:10):
weeks or three weeks, orsometimes more, sometimes less,
over the last 12 years everytransaction has been different.
If it was that easy just tostamp a generic template across
it.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You talk about every transaction being different.
Is there one comes to mindwhich was very difficult to deal
with, which was a real learningopportunity for you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Off the top of my head.
Most recently, I had a clientwho lovely, lovely family had
sold his business for quite ahigh amount and again two
slightly older kids and theywere looking at buying their
first house and their firsthouse was quite a respectable
(16:53):
budget, multiple millions.
So there was the conversationsaround what they want and they
were very modest and down toearth people, lovely, lovely,
but the wealth had given themopportunities which they never
dreamed of.
So there was a whole lot ofconversations around not just
areas about where to live interms of quality of life, but
(17:13):
what kind of house they wereafter you know, kitchens,
bathrooms, bedrooms, even carparks for the toys that they
recently purchased.
And there was a disconnectbetween what she wanted and what
he wanted.
And it took us almost a year tofind the perfect house, but we
did and the house we bought wason target.
(17:35):
And I have a philosophy with mybusiness that it takes as long
as it takes and it doesn'tmatter if we look at one asset
or 100 assets.
You can knock back any asset orreject any asset, but you have
to tell me why.
And it was when we finallysigned the dotted line and we
bought off market with nocompetition, and we paid a good
(17:56):
price for it, the right price,through the negotiations.
But when they called meafterwards and said, ray, thank
you very much, we have found ourdream home and if it wasn't for
you, we would have just boughtthe first or second thing we've
seen, because we're excited tobe in the market, we're excited
to have a house we wanted tohave a base for our kids to grow
up in, I had that moment ofjust going.
You know what?
We did the right thing and itwas a holistic process.
(18:20):
It took as long as it took andit was the right thing to do.
And it's frustrating to see aclient not get what they want.
And I'm a big believer ofpeople that buy houses for the
homes, that the person picks thehome as much as the house picks
the person, if you believe thatkind of stuff.
And this house definitely chosethis client and I look back and
(18:41):
I go.
And this house definitely chosethis client and I look back and
I go.
It was frustrating for them, itwas frustrating for me.
The process took a lot longer.
They could have easily, just,you know, terminated or gone
their own way, but they went onthis journey with me, and these
people are now, you know, withinmy friendship group and I've
seen the kids grow up and I'vewalked my dog and vice versa,
because now they're in aposition where they've got a
garden, they can, and I'vewalked my dog and vice versa,
because now they're in aposition where they've got a
(19:02):
garden, they can get a dog.
So they were trying out dogs.
So that's one of the ones mostrecently that I'm proud of and I
could have easily just gone.
You know what?
That's the first house.
This ticks all the boxes foryou Buy it, do it, and I got
paid and that's it.
But the longer approach justbuilt a stronger relationship
and meant that we ticked all theboxes to get them where they
needed to be.
So I was very proud of that one.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You act as a true advisor.
A true advisor, yeah, and thatcan be challenging.
When you get paid, you knowwhen a deal's done A succession,
A bit like me in recruitment,where you know I get paid when a
deal gets done but at the sametime you need to act in the best
interest of all partiesinvolved.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So there are a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'm sure in your industry and a lot of people in
my industry that focus onshort-term results rather than
long-term benefits.
So it's really nice to hearthat story.
Thank you for sharing Thank you.
And you touched on yourexperience, your career to date
starting performance marketingevents to transition to being a
self-employed property buyer'sagent and now working for a
(20:07):
boutique specialised firm.
What advice would you give tosomeone that might be?
Can I ask how old you were whenyou transitioned?
I was 35, I think it was 35.
So I'm 37 at the moment, sosomeone that might be in their
late 20s or early 30s, thatmight be in a similar situation,
currently in a similarsituation to what you were in.
(20:31):
What advice would you give themabout you know from your
experience and transitioninginto something you love?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Big questions.
A lot to unpack there.
I think the first thing I wouldgive, first advice I'd give any
person, was surround yourselfwith people that you can learn
off, that can be your mentors,that you can share with, that
trust you and vice versa.
They are the best people tosurround yourself with and best
people to learn off and shareknowledge with.
Um, there is a balance of egoand pride that comes into it and
(21:03):
if you're going into anyindustry or starting anything
else, you need to back yourself.
Why are you there?
What do you want to do?
Where do you see yourself infive years, 10 years, 15 years?
And how do you want to getthere?
I had opportunities to grow mybusiness, to take on partners
and silent investors.
Every one of thoseopportunities came with a whole
case study of conversationsaround where that will lead me
(21:24):
and what those implications meanaround, like you said, you know
managing staff or taking on acommercial site, or you know
marketing responsibility, evenlegalities around people in the
industry, um, so all thosethings sort of come back into
where you want to be and whereyou want to go and if you can
train yourself with people thatyou admire, that people that you
respect.
I think that's a large part ofit, and the second bit of advice
(21:45):
I'd give anyone is just backyourself.
You're never too young or tooold to learn or take a new
opportunity.
See where it lies.
I think Richard Branson saidjust sign the dotted line and
we'll figure it out later.
Very much a visionary If theopportunity presents, and you
(22:06):
can always go backwards, but youcan't always go forwards, and I
think that would be the bestadvice I'd give anyone who's
looking at any sort of industryor any sort of things.
And the last and most importantthing be passionate about it.
Love what you do, don't sellyourself something that is just
a grind or you don't appreciateor you don't have passion about.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And again, that old cliche that if you're doing
something you love, you don'twork it down in your life, and
that's quite a common theme forexceptional performers that
we've had on our podcast thatyou know there is a level of or
a high level of passion for whatthey do.
So it is natural get up andjust get into it, because they
love it.
Yep, and that's clear from whatyou've shared today your
passion for property andbuilding relationships and being
(22:48):
a trusted advisor.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, it's a very privileged place to be and I'm
very fortunate to be here.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And last question, because I know we're getting
towards the later stages of thepodcast who has been the biggest
influence on your life, whetherit be professionally or also
personally, to help you get yourcareer to where it is today?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Oh, positive I've had a lot of negative influences
that I've seen what not to do,which is probably easier.
There have been some industrychampions that have done some
amazing things over the years inproperty John McGrath, who I've
never had the I've only met himbriefly.
He's done some amazing thingsabout taking his business public
and doing some great things.
And this is going to soundreally cliche, but the person
(23:31):
I'm working with now, nicoleJacobs, who I've been fortunate
enough to have some touch pointswith over the years and become
friends with, she's one of the,I guess, the old guards of the
industry.
Um, and just an amazing ethicalstandard.
Um, an amazingly wonderfulperson, a very similar ethos to
what I do.
Um, and to be able to go towork with her every day is it's
(23:52):
not like having it as a boss,it's more like working with your
close-knit friends, which isgreat, um, and just to be able
to take my learnings and herlearnings because she was
self-employed too for almost 13years with her name on the door
just to share that symbioticrelationship and to have that
person to touch one is awonderful experience.
So I'm very fortunate to bewhere I am now to work with one
(24:14):
of the best of the best in theindustries.
But she says the same about me,so I think it's mutual.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, well, that's great.
Well, thank you for sharing,Thank you for coming on the
podcast and for our listeners.
You can follow us on oursocials and we look forward to
keeping in touch and seeing youat future events.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
We've done.
We'll see what the propertymarket does in 2025.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Well, hopefully interest rates keep coming down
and property should keep goingup.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Thanks, fabian, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Cheers.
Disclaimer this podcast existsfor informational and
entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
(25:04):
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast.
Whether you have followed usfrom the beginning or you're a
new listener, we are excited tohave you here.
Finance Friends gives ourlisteners a seat at the table
with successful finance industryleaders.
Follow us on our socials atFinance Friends Podcast, linked
in the description box of thisepisode, and stay tuned for
(00:29):
weekly episode releases.
Super excited to have Ray Becker, who's a senior property buyers
agent, on the podcast today.
He works at a business calledCohen Handler and he shared some
really great insights into howhe goes about being the trusted
(00:51):
advisor for people looking tobuy a property, whether it be an
investment or a family home.
On studying performance,performing arts and working in
marketing and events, beforetransitioning into being a
buyer's agent, running his ownbusiness for 10 years and now
(01:11):
joining Cohen Handler.
So really insightful Talksabout following his passion.
He comes from a family of threegenerations of property
investors and this is a greatopportunity to listen to Ray and
if you are really passionateabout something but you're not
working in that space, maybe Raycan help you to make that
transition smoothly.
Good morning, ray Becker.
(01:31):
Welcome to Finance Fred Podcast.
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Good morning, Fabian.
Thank you for having me Doingwell.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thank you for coming in.
We met not so long ago at anindustry event, which was great.
We had a good chat and you toldme about your background.
Are you currently working as asenior buyers agent in property?
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That's correct.
I've just joined the team atCohen Handler who've set up shop
here in Melbourne, so we're nowofficially national after 10
years of being self-employed,which is a nice transition.
Having, I guess, a boss for thefirst time in 10 years is a
little bit of a difference aswell, but a great team and a
whole new environment in termsof that buying advocacy space in
Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And what does a for an audience that doesn't know
what does a buyer's agentactually do?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
We do a whole gamut of things, but the end services
of what we provide are to buyyou the best house in the best
area at the best possible price.
I guess that's the end of thetransactional side, but before
that there's a whole lot ofconversations about the what,
the who, the when, the why, thequality of life versus wealth
creation, the strategic approachto buying property and all
(02:40):
those harder conversationsbefore people look pen to paper.
Because when the average entryinto the market is a million
dollars and then some inVictoria and Sydney, it's good
to have those conversationsprior and have those harder
conversations with our clientsto make sure that they're doing
the right thing strategically,financially and emotionally.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So I guess it's like running you never learn how to
run, but you end up running.
And a lot of people never learnhow to buy property, but almost
everyone buys a property.
So you help them the journey tounderstand property and the
process of what's involved inbuying a property.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
The running analogy is a very good one, because I've
just re-entered that space and,yes, anyone can run.
But you've got to listen toyour body, you've got to listen
to the environment, you've gotto listen to what people say.
The advice of those littletrinkets certainly make pounding
the pavement a lot easier.
It's a wonderful analogy,Fabian.
(03:41):
Yes, buying property is easy.
You go to an auction, stick upyour hand and as long as your
hand is the last one in the air,that asset is yours.
But a lot of people get it wrong.
A lot of people don't considerwhat they're about to commit to
around the finances or aroundthat journey, don't have an
understanding of thetransactional costs and you're
spot on.
(04:02):
Most people will buy one, twoor, if they're lucky, three
properties in their life whenthey're entering the market,
when they've got their familyhome and when they downsize at
the tail end of their life.
So if they're lucky, they'll doit three times a year.
But the reality of what I'veseen over the years is most
people will spend more timetrying on a pair of jeans or a
pair of shoes or looking at somenew AV equipment versus what
(04:25):
they'll do actually buying ahouse in terms of their due
diligence.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And what is your process?
So you talk about buying aproperty.
What is your process to buy aproperty?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
My process is more holistic, being a
third-generation property personunderstanding the ebbs and
flows of what the market can do.
There's harder conversationsaround, as I mentioned before,
the quality of life versuswealth creation and getting that
balance right.
For me, it's those questionsaround why are you buying?
What are you trying to achieve,where will you be in five years
(05:02):
, 10 years, 20 years, how theasset potentially fits into your
investment portfolio as wellstrategically as well as
objectively and making sure thatit ticks all the boxes for what
you're trying to achieve.
It's very easy to buy aproperty for $1 million, $2
million, $3 million and sell itfor the same amount in six
months' time, but thetransactional costs are quite
(05:26):
high in this state andnationally, so there's a cost
that comes with those mistakesas well.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, and obviously liquidity too, that you can't
just buy and sell a propertylike you can shares, shares or
gold or Bitcoin.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
yeah, the liquidity around it is tied up.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's right, so do you?
Well, let's maybe take a stepback, because this is where you
are now, but you don't startwhere you are because you were
telling me before, when we had achat, that you studied.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Performance studies.
My first degree was inaudiovisual engineering.
Believe it or not, many, many,many years ago.
Second degree was inaudiovisual engineering, believe
it or not.
Many, many, many years ago.
Second degree was inperformance studies.
So I've got a background whichis in, I guess, what you call it
light performance, amateurtheatre, that sort of stuff, and
I really enjoyed it.
I found that space.
(06:20):
I went back to school as aslightly mature age I was 22 at
the time Got a degree inperformance studies, realised
there was a lot more talentedpeople out there than I was, and
if I was going to make a livingat it it was, you know, those
people before me and that wasthe reality of that industry in
the mid to late 90s sotransitioned sort of into the
(06:41):
back of house stuff which wasproduction, event management.
So transition sort of into theback of house stuff which was
production, event management,soundscapes, that sort of thing,
and that naturally led intominor events which organically
led into major events.
So I worked with some eventcompanies, was very fortunate to
do some major Mass Appealevents which had some records in
terms of participation inAustralia back in the day.
(07:02):
We'd set some records in termsof participation in Australia
back in the day and from theretransitioned into sponsorship
and marketing, which was just anatural segue from where I was
into the partnership space, intothe corporate alliances space
(07:26):
and spent many, many yearsbouncing around with some major
blue chip clients, a lot ofcontract work with Victorian
state government beveragecompanies, some chocolate
companies, and bounced aroundthere for about 10 years before
sort of focusing it back downinto again the partnership space
, but for not-for-profits.
So that was a quality of lifedecision, worked well, was back
in the country a bit more, it'snot so less travel, more time
with my wife at the time and wewere trying to start a family
(07:48):
which works well if you're inthe country and was working as a
partnerships manager for one ofthe biggest charity
organisations in the country atthe time Was made redundant,
which was a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Was that an opportunity?
Because I hear some people say,well, being made redundant
could be the blessing indisguise.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
In hindsight, 100% was.
We'd just had our first childand our second child
back-to-back, so they were veryclose, which gave the
opportunity for my wife to goback to work and I stayed at
home with the kids and afterabout six months an amazing
experience I was gettingrestless and she basically said
look, I don't care what you do,just go do something that fills
(08:31):
that void where you know you'rea man, you're a hunter, gatherer
go do something.
It's not about financials, it'sjust, you know, go find that bit
that fills that mental spot inyour brain.
Um, and as I mentioned beforebefore we started the podcast,
I'm third generation propertyand my parents immigrated out
post-war.
Uh, they bought property.
It was good to them.
We've got a lineage ofarchitects and draftsmen and
(08:53):
builders in the family.
So what I did was justinformally, I guess put a
business around what I was doingfor many, many years, which was
helping friends and family andmyself and our family buy
property, finding it, talkingabout it, negotiating it and
having that conversation aroundhow to leverage it short-term,
(09:14):
mid-term and long-term.
It was always supposed to be ahobby having that conversation
around how to leverage itshort-term, mid-term and
long-term.
It was always supposed to be ahobby.
Got my license, ticked a fewboxes and before I knew it, 10
years had passed Working formyself, built a very nice client
base, largely referral, a veryholistic approach.
You probably know this.
(09:34):
I swear a bit too much.
I'm brutally honest, I don'tpull my punches and what I
thought would be sort of anegative in terms of the
industry that I'm in it actuallyturned into quite a positive
because the clients appreciatedthe upfrontness.
They appreciated the honestyand over the years, just seeing
what the industry does, stayedaway from the people that were
(09:58):
negative or toxic or broughtattention unnecessary attention
to the industry and just alwaysfocused on the positives around
it.
It's about buildingrelationships, it's about
building friends and it's goingto sound a bit pretentious, but
I get to spend other people'smoney to buy property and that's
a privilege and an honor and Itreat it as my own money.
(10:20):
So it's a very simplephilosophy but it's served me
very well.
And after the 10 years of beingsolo, the opportunity came to
join a small but passionate teamunder the co-head of the brand
with a colleague of mine who Ihave a lot of respect for and
she's got a very similar ethosto what I does.
So it was largely working withher.
It was largely working with theopportunity around the brand
(10:42):
and it's a whole new sandpit toplay in, but doing exactly the
same thing.
So that's the abridged version.
I hope it wasn't too boring.
But you look back in hindsightand as a knock on the door of 50
this year, it was a veryorganic approach to get me to
where I am today and I probablyin hindsight if I had to go back
15 years or 17 years when Istarted, I'd probably go.
(11:02):
You know what?
You should have started thisearlier.
You should have given it a fewmore years, taken that leap of
faith and backed yourself anddone it.
But when I look back inhindsight, it's right place,
right time, right opportunityand everything's fallen into
place.
So hindsight's 20-20, as theysay, but that's where I am now.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I'll ask you the question, though If you're
obviously passionate about whatyou do and love what you do, and
it's great and thank you forsharing that if you were to
start that career at the age of22, do you think you'd still
have that level of passion, oris there a chance?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
maybe that it would have fizzled out Again, fabian,
with the benefit of hindsight, Ithink the passion was always
there.
It's encrusted into my DNA.
The property aspect I love it,I love talking about it, I love
being part of it.
Being on building sites,watching Dad grow up and take us
out to be part of it as wellall lay that legacy.
What I don't think I had atthat age was the experience and
(12:03):
understanding what thefinancials are, being able to
talk around that level of highnet worth individuals, just
having that communication andexperience which just comes with
age, and doing those amazingthings that I got to do over the
years talking with differentstakeholders, understanding what
people's objectives are, beingable to have honest
conversations with people andknowing that at the end of the
(12:24):
day, it's about assisting andbenefiting, but in a holistic
approach and not being afraid tolose a client, not being afraid
to have a hard conversation.
At a younger age, I think Iwould have been a little bit
more susceptible to pleasing,being influenced by the people
out there that were doing thingsthat were less scrupulous to
(12:45):
get money.
The industry is largelycommission-based and the more
sales you get, the more moneyyou get, and the industry was
very different 30 years ago towhat it is today.
It's evolved, it's changed,it's changing as we speak.
We're in the middle of arenaissance in terms of real
estate and how it's transactingwith the influence of AI and
everything else, and I thinkthat the foundation that I have
(13:08):
that got me to where I am todaywill overlay through any of
those new adaptations and giveme sort of a strength and
fortitude to grow into that.
We were talking before, when Icame in, just around podcasts
and sort of my naivety around.
You know how they reach, howthey work those sorts of things
too, and I'm a podcast virgin,so this is my first one.
Thank you for having me onboard.
Thank you for that.
There's a whole new level ofhow we do things, how we
(13:32):
transact, and if you work withthe right people and you work
with the right approach, I thinkthe finances will come
organically through that.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, and you're quite unique in terms of you
provide a high-touch service tooand you deal with you know you
could argue blue-chip locationswithin Melbourne.
So inner city or not in a city?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Southeast corridor.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Southeast corridor.
So your approach would be verydifferent to, maybe, a buyer's
agent that focuses on using AIto engage greater, bigger
audiences.
Yours is very bespoke in whatyou do.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There's.
Yes, you're absolutely right,it is a very personal-based
industry.
The algorithms can only do somuch in terms of acquiring the
information.
And the data is available sitsin the market.
(14:44):
You can work out yield, you canwork out capital growth fairly
straightforward throughtransactions, back historical
knowledge what the AI can't do.
And with the transactions ofbuying and selling property, the
psychology of buying andselling is very different.
When you're buying, you'requite frugal.
When you're selling, you'requite greedy.
And there's always a level ofpartnerships on both and the
(15:04):
agent is representing one andwe're representing the other the
advocacy side.
And once you understand thepsychology of why people are
selling because no one sellswithout an impetus you know it's
a downsizing or a death in thefamily or someone's passed away,
or divorce or unfortunatecircumstances there's always a
motivation for why people areselling.
And if you can understand thepsychology of the whys, it's not
(15:26):
necessarily always about theprice, it's about how you make
people's life easier and thepersonal touch of what we do.
And whether you're a firsthomeowner or you're a downsizer,
or you're lucky enough to be inthat mid to high-end corridor
and you're one of the privilegedones that can buy those large
size assets, the negotiationtactics vary, but the essence of
(15:48):
what we're dealing is justaround people base, so it's
knowing when to pull, knowingwhen to push.
It's not any different frombeing a lawyer or someone who
influences policy or any ofthose things.
It's knowing to get that bestoutcome that benefits all
parties.
There's no linear approach tohow we do it.
Every transaction is differentand if I'm doing one every two
(16:10):
weeks or three weeks, orsometimes more, sometimes less,
over the last 12 years everytransaction has been different.
If it was that easy just tostamp a generic template across
it.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You talk about every transaction being different.
Is there one comes to mindwhich was very difficult to deal
with, which was a real learningopportunity for you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Off the top of my head.
Most recently, I had a clientwho lovely, lovely family had
sold his business for quite ahigh amount and again two
slightly older kids and theywere looking at buying their
first house and their firsthouse was quite a respectable
(16:53):
budget, multiple millions.
So there was the conversationsaround what they want and they
were very modest and down toearth people, lovely, lovely,
but the wealth had given themopportunities which they never
dreamed of.
So there was a whole lot ofconversations around not just
areas about where to live interms of quality of life, but
(17:13):
what kind of house they wereafter you know, kitchens,
bathrooms, bedrooms, even carparks for the toys that they
recently purchased.
And there was a disconnectbetween what she wanted and what
he wanted.
And it took us almost a year tofind the perfect house, but we
did and the house we bought wason target.
(17:35):
And I have a philosophy with mybusiness that it takes as long
as it takes and it doesn'tmatter if we look at one asset
or 100 assets.
You can knock back any asset orreject any asset, but you have
to tell me why.
And it was when we finallysigned the dotted line and we
bought off market with nocompetition, and we paid a good
(17:56):
price for it, the right price,through the negotiations.
But when they called meafterwards and said, ray, thank
you very much, we have found ourdream home and if it wasn't for
you, we would have just boughtthe first or second thing we've
seen, because we're excited tobe in the market, we're excited
to have a house we wanted tohave a base for our kids to grow
up in, I had that moment ofjust going.
You know what?
We did the right thing and itwas a holistic process.
(18:20):
It took as long as it took andit was the right thing to do.
And it's frustrating to see aclient not get what they want.
And I'm a big believer ofpeople that buy houses for the
homes, that the person picks thehome as much as the house picks
the person, if you believe thatkind of stuff.
And this house definitely chosethis client and I look back and
(18:41):
I go.
And this house definitely chosethis client and I look back and
I go.
It was frustrating for them, itwas frustrating for me.
The process took a lot longer.
They could have easily, just,you know, terminated or gone
their own way, but they went onthis journey with me, and these
people are now, you know, withinmy friendship group and I've
seen the kids grow up and I'vewalked my dog and vice versa,
because now they're in aposition where they've got a
garden, they can, and I'vewalked my dog and vice versa,
because now they're in aposition where they've got a
(19:02):
garden, they can get a dog.
So they were trying out dogs.
So that's one of the ones mostrecently that I'm proud of and I
could have easily just gone.
You know what?
That's the first house.
This ticks all the boxes foryou Buy it, do it, and I got
paid and that's it.
But the longer approach justbuilt a stronger relationship
and meant that we ticked all theboxes to get them where they
needed to be.
So I was very proud of that one.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
You act as a true advisor.
A true advisor, yeah, and thatcan be challenging.
When you get paid, you knowwhen a deal's done A succession,
A bit like me in recruitment,where you know I get paid when a
deal gets done but at the sametime you need to act in the best
interest of all partiesinvolved.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So there are a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I'm sure in your industry and a lot of people in
my industry that focus onshort-term results rather than
long-term benefits.
So it's really nice to hearthat story.
Thank you for sharing Thank you.
And you touched on yourexperience, your career to date
starting performance marketingevents to transition to being a
self-employed property buyer'sagent and now working for a
(20:07):
boutique specialised firm.
What advice would you give tosomeone that might be?
Can I ask how old you were whenyou transitioned?
I was 35, I think it was 35.
So I'm 37 at the moment, sosomeone that might be in their
late 20s or early 30s, thatmight be in a similar situation,
currently in a similarsituation to what you were in.
(20:31):
What advice would you give themabout you know from your
experience and transitioninginto something you love?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Big questions.
A lot to unpack there.
I think the first thing I wouldgive, first advice I'd give any
person, was surround yourselfwith people that you can learn
off, that can be your mentors,that you can share with, that
trust you and vice versa.
They are the best people tosurround yourself with and best
people to learn off and shareknowledge with.
Um, there is a balance of egoand pride that comes into it and
(21:03):
if you're going into anyindustry or starting anything
else, you need to back yourself.
Why are you there?
What do you want to do?
Where do you see yourself infive years, 10 years, 15 years?
And how do you want to getthere?
I had opportunities to grow mybusiness, to take on partners
and silent investors.
Every one of thoseopportunities came with a whole
case study of conversationsaround where that will lead me
(21:24):
and what those implications meanaround, like you said, you know
managing staff or taking on acommercial site, or you know
marketing responsibility, evenlegalities around people in the
industry, um, so all thosethings sort of come back into
where you want to be and whereyou want to go and if you can
train yourself with people thatyou admire, that people that you
respect.
I think that's a large part ofit, and the second bit of advice
(21:45):
I'd give anyone is just backyourself.
You're never too young or tooold to learn or take a new
opportunity.
See where it lies.
I think Richard Branson saidjust sign the dotted line and
we'll figure it out later.
Very much a visionary If theopportunity presents, and you
(22:06):
can always go backwards, but youcan't always go forwards, and I
think that would be the bestadvice I'd give anyone who's
looking at any sort of industryor any sort of things.
And the last and most importantthing be passionate about it.
Love what you do, don't sellyourself something that is just
a grind or you don't appreciateor you don't have passion about.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And again, that old cliche that if you're doing
something you love, you don'twork it down in your life, and
that's quite a common theme forexceptional performers that
we've had on our podcast thatyou know there is a level of or
a high level of passion for whatthey do.
So it is natural get up andjust get into it, because they
love it.
Yep, and that's clear from whatyou've shared today your
passion for property andbuilding relationships and being
(22:48):
a trusted advisor.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, it's a very privileged place to be and I'm
very fortunate to be here.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And last question, because I know we're getting
towards the later stages of thepodcast who has been the biggest
influence on your life, whetherit be professionally or also
personally, to help you get yourcareer to where it is today?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Oh, positive I've had a lot of negative influences
that I've seen what not to do,which is probably easier.
There have been some industrychampions that have done some
amazing things over the years inproperty John McGrath, who I've
never had the I've only met himbriefly.
He's done some amazing thingsabout taking his business public
and doing some great things.
And this is going to soundreally cliche, but the person
(23:31):
I'm working with now, nicoleJacobs, who I've been fortunate
enough to have some touch pointswith over the years and become
friends with, she's one of the,I guess, the old guards of the
industry.
Um, and just an amazing ethicalstandard.
Um, an amazingly wonderfulperson, a very similar ethos to
what I do.
Um, and to be able to go towork with her every day is it's
(23:52):
not like having it as a boss,it's more like working with your
close-knit friends, which isgreat, um, and just to be able
to take my learnings and herlearnings because she was
self-employed too for almost 13years with her name on the door
just to share that symbioticrelationship and to have that
person to touch one is awonderful experience.
So I'm very fortunate to bewhere I am now to work with one
(24:14):
of the best of the best in theindustries.
But she says the same about me,so I think it's mutual.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, well, that's great.
Well, thank you for sharing,Thank you for coming on the
podcast and for our listeners.
You can follow us on oursocials and we look forward to
keeping in touch and seeing youat future events.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
We've done.
We'll see what the propertymarket does in 2025.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Well, hopefully interest rates keep coming down
and property should keep goingup.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Thanks, fabian, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Cheers.
Disclaimer this podcast existsfor informational and
entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
(25:04):
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
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