April 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Ever wondered about the invisible support system behind successful finance professionals? This week, our host, Fabian Ruggieri chats with Samantha Sun as she pulls back the curtain on this fascinating profession in a candid conversation that explores the critical role of practice management in helping advisors build thriving businesses.
As Senior Practice Engagement and Growth Manager at Entireti, Samantha supports financial planning practices across Victoria, Tasmania, and South Australia. Her work combines strategic business coaching, accountability frameworks, and professional development initiatives that enable advisors to achieve more than they thought possible.
Whether you're considering a career in financial planning, already working in the industry, or simply curious about what happens behind the scenes, this episode offers valuable insights. Discover why Samantha believes financial planners do such an amazing job and how supporting their businesses allows more Australians to access quality financial advice.
Enjoyed the episode? Follow Finance Friends Podcast on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok for daily updates and more inspiring conversations. Got questions or ideas for future episodes? Send us a DM @financefriendspodcast!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Finance Friends podcast.
Whether you have followed usfrom the beginning or you're a
new listener, we are excited tohave you here.
Finance Friends gives ourlisteners a seat at the table
with successful finance industryleaders.
Follow us on our socials atFinance Friends Podcast, linked
in the description box of thisepisode, and stay tuned for
(00:29):
weekly episode releases.
And on today's podcast we haveSamantha Sun, who is the Senior
Manager, Practice Engagement andGrowth for Entirety.
She covers Victoria, Tasmaniaand South Australia, so what she
does is helps financialplanners grow their business.
Find out how she does that.
(00:50):
It's an interesting but alsochallenging role.
Good morning.
And today we have the wonderfulSamantha Sun who goes by Sam.
Is that right, that's?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
correct, Fabian.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm good.
Thank you.
We had a catch up this morningas part of the FAAA and you
mentioned you're a little bittired.
You had a big day yesterday, isthat right?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That's correct, Fabian.
We had one of our professionaldevelopment days yesterday, so
very busy and long day with alot of our clients, but it's
always great to see them.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So what does that mean?
What's a professionaldevelopment day, and who are
your clients?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yep, so I work for Entarity.
I actually work for two of thelicensee groups that sit within
Entarity, so that's PFS andFortnum.
We run professional developmentdays quite regularly across the
year.
Financial planners obviouslyneed to have a set number of CPD
points, so as part of that, weset up professional development
days and run a lot of technical,personal development,
(01:44):
professional development typesessions for them to attend.
So it's a very full day forthem as well.
A lot of technical sessionsyesterday, but we got some
really good feedback and it's agreat opportunity to network and
socialise with our clients.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, and I guess it's really important because
financial advisors need to keepup to date with changes, whether
it be superannuation or otherchanges that might happen that
they need to advise theirclients on with changes, whether
it be superannuation or otherchanges that might happen that
they need to advise theirclients on Yep correct and I
think you know more recently,very topical are things like you
know, what's AI doing in ourspace.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That's been really, really popular in terms of
topics how can technology helpin terms of building
efficiencies in their adviceprocesses?
Cyber, again, is very topicalat the moment as well, so we had
a lot of that covered yesterday.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, so you ran an event yesterday, yes, and how
does that transfer to what youdo on a day-to-day basis?
Or maybe let's start?
What is your title?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yep, it's a very long one.
I'm one of the Senior practiceengagement and growth managers.
Look, in the industry there'svarious titles for this role,
but we are essentially practicemanagers and my day-to-day so to
give you a bit of context andbackground I look after it's
(03:00):
about 57 practices.
So they are self-employed, theyrun their own businesses,
they're licensed through eitherFortnum or PFS and it's across
VicTAS and SA for me.
So my day-to-day is it can be acombination of in-practice
meetings meeting up withbusiness development managers
(03:21):
who have relationships with ourorganisation to identify any
kind of mutual opportunitiesbetween mutual clients A lot of
internal meetings as well, andinternal meetings varies from
meeting with our other teammembers who might have
initiatives that they're rollingout to our practices.
So it's a whole mix of stuff.
(03:42):
I am on the road quite a bitbecause of the area that I do
cover.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So what area do you cover?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I've got Vic, tass and SA, and Vic also includes
regional Victoria.
So you know I'm off toWarrnambool, horsham, all the
regional areas which I don'tmind going to.
I don't mind a road trip.
Keep myself busy returningphone calls to clients and stuff
or listening to podcasts yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And who are your clients?
They're in practices.
I assume they're financialadvisors.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yes, so they are financial advisors.
So in our industry financialadvisors they either need to be
licensed through a licenseegroup or they can be
self-licensed.
So the two organizations that Iwork for are licensed C groups,
so the clients that I lookafter are licensed through
either PFS or Fortnum.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So they pay you a fee to help them with their
compliance and training and alsodealing with ASIC, rather than
them dealing with ASIC directly.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Correct, so we have professional standards and
guidelines in place for them toadhere to.
We provide the complianceframework.
We provide a lot of technologyimplementation support as well
and for my specific role, it'saround the practice management
support that we provide to them.
So that involves businessplanning.
We followed like a balancedscorecard approach.
(05:02):
There's a lot of accountabilitythat comes with building out a
business plan with a practice aswell, so there's a lot of
people that are involved interms of our organisation that
supports a practice in, I guess,making them more profitable and
more efficient so they can seemore clients.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So there's an element of business coaching involved,
yeah exactly, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yep, definitely.
I would almost compare it to afinancial plan and seeing a
client they do a fact findprocess.
We do something very similar toget to know our clients what
business goals do they want toachieve and how can we help them
.
So we do run business planningsessions with a practice and
then we do 90 day action planswith them and keep it to two or
(05:42):
three kind of key initiatives.
We all know that if we end upwith a really big list, we're
not likely to achieve all of it.
So we'll pick two or threeitems each 90 days and it keeps
both parties accountable becauseobviously we're here to support
them, but there'll be some workthat they'll need to do in
terms of working on theirbusiness.
Can it be?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
quite challenging when a business owner has really
big goals but maybe areunrealistic.
And how do you manage that?
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think that's the part of the role that I enjoy in
terms of you need to be able tobuild a lot of trust with those
clients and they appreciatewhere you kind of respectfully
challenge them on things.
So I think if you're in thistype of role, you need to be
able to do that and I think theyrespect you a lot more when you
are calling out things.
But I'm also a firm believer ofhaving you know you do need to
(06:35):
have stretch goals.
I think you need to be able toalso call out if a goal is
perhaps a little bit too easy toachieve and to consider more
stretch goals as well.
So I think it does come down tobuilding that trust with the
client and for them, I think,having the trust in us and the
business that's behind me toactually support them to achieve
(06:55):
those goals.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
And your clients obviously set goals or help
their clients set goals, so theywill be familiar with goal
setting and, and you know,aiming to achieve that goal yeah
, exactly which makes it easy,and what is there a part of your
job that maybe you don't likeas much at times?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
oh, that's a difficult question.
Um, I have to admit I think Iactually enjoy all elements of
my role.
I think, you know, even ifthere are days where it's a
little bit difficult, you stillhave to have those ones, and
then you just look back andlearn from you know.
What have you learned?
If it has been a bad day?
(07:37):
Why was it bad?
And is there anything I couldhave done to?
I don't know, switch it aroundand stuff?
I don't think there's everreally like a perfect role as
such.
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
I don't think there's anythingI don't enjoy.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Is it difficult to manage so many clients?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's a great question, fabian.
Look, I think for some of myclients I should provide some
context in the sense of theclients that I do have.
I have some very largecorporatised businesses, so they
would have external businesscoaches as well.
So I may not necessarily playthat part for them in that
business but I play other partsin their business.
(08:18):
So, and then on the other sideyou would have say single
planner practices or startupbusinesses who were perhaps
planners that were employed andvery successful in an employed
financial planner position buthave decided to start their own
business and, you know, take theleap and stuff.
And those practices I loveworking with because there's so
(08:39):
much potential to set them upright from the very start.
So yeah, it kind of varies butI think because every practice
has different needs similar toadvisors with their clients,
from a capacity perspective, Iguess in some way it is
manageable.
We do, where we can, one-to-manytype sessions as well with our
(09:01):
practices.
So on top of my usual practicevisits, I also facilitate peer
groups.
So we run peer groups forbusiness owners.
I've got an incredible one atthe moment which is all female
business owners, which is I getso much energy coming out of
those peer groups.
They are an incredible group offemales who are running their
(09:21):
businesses, and it varies fromwomen who have been running
their business for many years toones that have just recently
joined who are running theirbusinesses, and it varies from
women who've been running theirbusiness for many years to ones
that have just recently joinedwho are startups.
So those kind of sessions giveme a lot of energy in the sense
of they are so generous withtheir time in terms of sharing
ideas, helping each other.
I guess in a way they'recheerleaders for each other.
(09:43):
But yeah, the peer groups help,I guess, in terms of managing
that capacity as well.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Do you have any statistics on how many female
financial advisor businessowners there are out there,
because I couldn't imaginethere'd be a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
No, yes, I don't, and that would be a really
interesting thing to look into.
I I think I feel like I mean,I've worked at quite a few
licensee groups and I would haveto say where I'm at at the
moment there's, I mean, thatwould make a good, I would say,
maybe a third in terms of ournetwork, potentially quarter to
(10:23):
a third in terms of businessowners, or they could be
partners as well in the largercorporatised businesses, which
has been really encouraging tosee, because I think in other
groups that I've worked at, itprobably hasn't been that high.
I think the other good thingthat's probably maybe
contributing to it and weprobably won't see this until
maybe the medium or long term iswe have some fantastic
(10:45):
businesses that recognise theyneed to have female planners in
their businesses, so they areprobably actively kind of
looking to recruit within aswell.
So we've had quite a few PYgraduates who are females.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
So PY professional year.
So if you want to be afinancial advisor, you have to
do a professional year.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah.
So we've got a lot ofbusinesses where they've
recognised internal staff whohave expressed an interest in
becoming a financial planner.
We have a great PY programwhere we support the businesses
in putting one of thosecandidates through the PY
program and we had quite a fewof them that graduated last year
who were females.
So I think it's a greatprofession for females, I think
(11:29):
because it does give flexibilityas they get older if they want
to have family or kids and stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
So you heard it here first, the Finance Written's
podcast.
If you're a female and you wantto be a financial advisor,
there is plenty of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And it's a great profession.
It is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's a great profession it is.
It's a fantastic profession, Ithink.
Even I mean that's probably theonly role I haven't done in
terms of my career.
But what I have enjoyed is whenyou get to speak to.
I mean I don't know, maybe theyhave a different way in terms
of dealing with clients andstuff, but they love what they
(12:07):
do.
They're very, just, veryenthusiastic about what they
have like they can do, butthey're very supportive of each
other as well.
So, but in terms of a careerpath for females, you know we've
got lots of.
I mean, if I look at our groupalone, we've got business owners
that are working three or fourdays a week.
You know we've got lots of.
I mean, if I look at our groupalone, we've got business owners
that are working three or fourdays a week, you know, because
(12:27):
they've got children and stuff.
So it provides that flexibility.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You can also have a lifestyle business as well as
just you know, people think thatif you're a financial advisor,
I have to work 12-hour days,five, six days a week, Correct?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But, clearly.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You don't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
No, clearly you don't have to do that.
No, we had a very interestingsession actually at conference
last year.
We do panel sessions because alot of our clients like to hear
from their peers in regards towhat's working, and we have one
session where business ownerswere kind of sharing what they
were doing in their businesses.
That, I guess, for them, gavethem a little bit of balance.
I mean, they worked hard to getto that position.
(13:04):
But you know one practice no oneworks Fridays and that is
becoming even more common thesedays.
I've got a practice in Victoriathat does the same.
No one works Fridays andemployees are happy as well.
They know that they've got fourdays to get all the work done,
a compressed week, but they knowthey've got long weekends every
weekend.
(13:25):
I would love that.
But yeah, I think in regards toflexibility, it's definitely
there.
I mean you still have, like, ifyou were looking at, say, power
planning as a career andthere's a lot of career power
planners out there.
They work from home, they, youknow, charge per SOA that they
produce.
So I think in our industrythere's definitely so much scope
(13:49):
for flexibility if that's whatpeople are looking for.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And just to clarify a paraplanner is someone who
writes the advice document forthe advisor.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
SOA is a statement of advice, which is the advice
document for the client.
So let's bring us back to thebeginning, because there's not a
lot of people that work, youknow, have your profession.
It's quite unique, and how didyou get to where you are?
(14:18):
Where did you start?
What did you study?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I did commerce, accounting and finance.
I wasn't great at accounting.
I did fail my first year.
So, yeah, and I didn't enjoyaccounting.
I mean, I was probably I don'tknow probably a lot of people in
the same space.
Just get your degree and thenfigure it out afterwards.
I was a bit like that.
My very first role was actuallyin a small family owned
(14:43):
financial planning business andthey were looking for a
paraplanner, which I had no ideawhat they did.
But what I did learn fromworking at a small firm is that
you learn about everything.
So rather than being in a bigcorporate and you just doing you
know plans all the time, in asmall business you have to learn
everything else.
(15:03):
So you know when insuranceclaims come through or when you
know your advisor actually tellsa client that their claim came
through and you see the client'sreaction to it.
So, yeah, started off in asmall firm and then had various
roles in power planning, but inthe larger corporate.
So some of the largercorporates have internal power
(15:24):
planning teams, so moved intoone of those.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
So give me an example of a large corporate that you
worked with.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, so back then it would have been AXA that I
moved into an internal powerplanning team.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And they don't exist because AXA got taken over by
AMP.
Who's well?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
AMP still exists, but in entirety Back where I am,
yeah, so I have done a stint inAMP but yeah, so I did
paraplanning.
Then from paraplanning Iactually moved into kind of
compliance, training anddevelopment type roles, which is
great.
So I think with the largecorporates there's advantages
(16:02):
because you get opportunities tomove around and try different
roles.
So at Accel I was veryfortunate to be able to do that,
so did audits, complaintshandling, which I would say is
character building, training anddevelopment in that role.
Then, in terms of getting intopractice management, I was very
(16:26):
fortunate from previous roleswith previous managers I think
AMP was going through arestructure at that stage and
they were looking for theirversions of practice managers
and my name was recommended andI went through the interview
process.
I do feel very fortunate forthat opportunity because it is
(16:47):
very there aren't that manyroles that come up in the space,
as you've mentioned, fabian,earlier.
So they gave me a chance and ifit wasn't for them I wouldn't
be where I am now in terms of,just, you know, various practice
management roles in differentlicensee groups.
So I would say my learningsfrom that in terms of actually
(17:10):
getting into that opportunity isyou know you can't burn bridges
, you network well, because Ithink sometimes people just tap
you on the shoulder because theyknow they've worked with you
before, or yeah, I'm veryfortunate, I could think, for
that very first role at AMP.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's definitely a common denominator the ability
to network, build relationshipsoutside your inner circle,
correct, and that potentially isa skill that may be lost a
little bit for the nextgeneration.
Yeah, but I think that isreally important too.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I think so.
I think you know when you speakto I feel old.
But if you speak to the kind ofnext generation that's looking
to get into the industry, Iwould say you've just got to be
brave and you've got to getyourself out there and get out
there to any networkingopportunity that you have.
Introduce yourself, because Ithink our industry is very
(18:08):
welcoming in terms of anybodythat's interested in talking to
you about financial planning orany other careers in our
industry.
But it's taking that kind ofleap of faith in actually going,
because I know maybe when I,even when I started it's kind of
scary going to like an eventand you might be the only one
there.
But you'll find if you do goeveryone's really friendly and
(18:32):
they all just want to helpsupport that next generation
coming into our industry.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Well, we're both committee members of the FAAA
and if you are a student, you doget free membership, correct,
yeah, and it gives you access toevents, to conference.
So, I would highly recommend it.
We both know each other becauseI worked at a financial
planning firm and you were ourpractice development manager at
the time, and my old employeeused to say go out there and
(18:57):
meet new people, find out whatother businesses are doing and
bring them back to the practice.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Exactly, exactly, and I think that can be applied for
any industry.
But, yeah, I do feel that ourindustry we are very fortunate
that everybody just wants thisindustry to succeed we want to
see that next generation comingthrough.
We've seen, you know, a lot ofplanners exit our industry, so,
(19:22):
you know, the numbers aren't asbig as they used to be, but
you've still got a lot ofAustralians that need financial
planning advice.
So we do have a lot of work, Ithink, to do in terms of
highlighting that this is anamazing industry to be in.
For that next generation tocome through.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, and if someone wants to be a practice manager
development manager, growthmanager what are the key skills
required?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Oh, I would say you have to be really good at
listening, actually, you knowwhat.
I would compare it to very muchthe traits that you would need
for an advisor.
So you're really good atlistening, also asking a lot of
questions.
Being curious, I think, becauseoften you know actually this is
for any business owner, notjust financial planning, but
(20:14):
there's often personal driversaround why they're in the
business of financial planning.
So really kind of uncoveringwhat drives them, because it's,
you know, it's not about oh mygosh, I want to make you know
40% profit, for example.
There's usually some underlyingpersonal reasons as to why
they're in financial planning.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So I might ask you the question what drives you in
your role?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I love that I can help businesses hopefully be
able to see more clients.
You hear all the stories.
I mean, I've worked with somany financial planners and to
hear all the success stories interms of what they've been able
to do in terms of helping theirclients.
They're the stories that Ithink are really fantastic,
(20:59):
because I think financialplanners do such an amazing job.
I think, unfortunately, wedon't hear enough about those
really good success stories.
We hear about all the bad onesthat have happened in our
industry.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Of course, bad stories.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Great clickbait Headlines.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But financial planners do an amazing job and
if I can have any kind of Iguess input into I don't know
how they run their business, oryou know how they run their
business more efficiently, oryou know just a better client
experience, all that kind ofstuff, that's the bit that
drives me.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing.
That's really insightful.
Has there been someone or acouple of people that have been
a big influence on your careerto date?
A big influence on your careerto date.
I would say I reckon there'sprobably a few people actually
(21:53):
Outside of me.
Of course, I was going to getthere, fabian.
I was going to get there.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think I'll probably have a few key people and I
would say, like some are withinthe industry and some are
outside of the industry, sorryand there's one particular lady
I would consider one of myprobably key mentors.
And I say that because, being afemale, and I mean when I
(22:18):
started in the industry, I thinkit was still very much male
dominated and if you're lookingat the leadership roles it's, I
think it still is somewhat maledominated.
And this particular lady I'vealways kind of admired for many
years and early on from mycareer, but I've been able to
see her kind of pivot her career.
So I find that reallyinteresting in the sense of what
(22:43):
I think I want people tounderstand is that, whilst you
might have a particular role,don't feel like that.
That role kind of is it?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Is your forever role.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Correct, because I think I look back at my career.
I mean, I had a stint where Istopped practice management
because opportunities came up totry a national role, for
example, and I remember callingmy mentor going.
I still enjoy practicemanagement, I love it.
But I'm just wondering there'san opportunity here and I'm
(23:12):
wondering whether I should havea go at it.
And her advice was you knowwell, there's nothing stopping
you from going for it.
Why don't you just go for it?
Try it.
If you don't like it, you canalways go back.
So I think, yeah, I definitelylook up to her because I've seen
her career kind of pivot fromdifferent industries and then
(23:35):
she ended up, yeah, back infinancial planning because that
was her passion and that was herlove.
And then I think I found myselfeven doing some of those
national roles.
I really miss working withplanners directly.
When you move into a nationalrole, you're kind of that far
more removed from you knowwhat's actually happening on the
ground.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Is there maybe a sense of purpose lost to a
degree when you're not havingthat?
I?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
think it's.
Yeah, I think there's anelement of that, Like, even
though you're in a national role, you might be delivering an
initiative, but you don't seethe impact, Whereas I think when
you're working directly withadvisors, and even you know the
staff in their businesses, youhear it and you experience it
when you're seeing them all thetime.
(24:17):
So I think you're correct incalling that out.
In the sense of that purposebit is not as tight, if that
makes sense.
But yeah, in terms of yeah, Ihave various mentors.
I think the thing with thementor is they need to be, I
guess, trustworthy, and I dolike that.
(24:40):
They respectfully challenge me.
Yeah, Because I think you needthat.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, you talk about challenge and this has come up
multiple times in the podcastaround.
You know you learn the mostwhen you are challenged.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
So I think that's a good way to end the conversation
and you know, thank you verymuch, sam, for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
You've actually made a bigimpact on my career to date.
I worked in a financialplanning firm.
You were the practicedevelopment manager and as a
result of you, I've volunteeredat a couple of charities that
you've recommended.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, your career has been really good to see on the
sideline too, so that's also agreat thing about our industry
that you see.
You know your friends andcolleagues go through their kind
of journey as well, and there'sjust so much opportunity.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, there is.
It's a great industry financialplanning and the, I guess, the
ecosystem around financialplanning.
So if you are interested inbecoming a financial planner,
highly recommend it.
It's a great industry and lotsof opportunity there.
You know, it's a big growtharea at the moment.
It's a great industry and lotsof opportunity.
It's a big growth area at themoment.
(25:48):
The supply and demand equationis definitely in favour of the
advisor.
But thank you for coming inagain, sam.
It's been a pleasure knowingyou over the journey and look
forward to seeing your careercontinue to prosper Excellent.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thanks, Fabian.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
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new listener, we are excited tohave you here.
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with successful finance industryleaders.
Follow us on our socials atFinance Friends Podcast, linked
in the description box of thisepisode, and stay tuned for
(00:29):
weekly episode releases.
And on today's podcast we haveSamantha Sun, who is the Senior
Manager, Practice Engagement andGrowth for Entirety.
She covers Victoria, Tasmaniaand South Australia, so what she
does is helps financialplanners grow their business.
Find out how she does that.
(00:50):
It's an interesting but alsochallenging role.
Good morning.
And today we have the wonderfulSamantha Sun who goes by Sam.
Is that right, that's?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
correct, Fabian.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm good.
Thank you.
We had a catch up this morningas part of the FAAA and you
mentioned you're a little bittired.
You had a big day yesterday, isthat right?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That's correct, Fabian.
We had one of our professionaldevelopment days yesterday, so
very busy and long day with alot of our clients, but it's
always great to see them.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So what does that mean?
What's a professionaldevelopment day, and who are
your clients?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yep, so I work for Entarity.
I actually work for two of thelicensee groups that sit within
Entarity, so that's PFS andFortnum.
We run professional developmentdays quite regularly across the
year.
Financial planners obviouslyneed to have a set number of CPD
points, so as part of that, weset up professional development
days and run a lot of technical,personal development,
(01:44):
professional development typesessions for them to attend.
So it's a very full day forthem as well.
A lot of technical sessionsyesterday, but we got some
really good feedback and it's agreat opportunity to network and
socialise with our clients.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, and I guess it's really important because
financial advisors need to keepup to date with changes, whether
it be superannuation or otherchanges that might happen that
they need to advise theirclients on with changes, whether
it be superannuation or otherchanges that might happen that
they need to advise theirclients on Yep correct and I
think you know more recently,very topical are things like you
know, what's AI doing in ourspace.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That's been really, really popular in terms of
topics how can technology helpin terms of building
efficiencies in their adviceprocesses?
Cyber, again, is very topicalat the moment as well, so we had
a lot of that covered yesterday.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, so you ran an event yesterday, yes, and how
does that transfer to what youdo on a day-to-day basis?
Or maybe let's start?
What is your title?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yep, it's a very long one.
I'm one of the Senior practiceengagement and growth managers.
Look, in the industry there'svarious titles for this role,
but we are essentially practicemanagers and my day-to-day so to
give you a bit of context andbackground I look after it's
(03:00):
about 57 practices.
So they are self-employed, theyrun their own businesses,
they're licensed through eitherFortnum or PFS and it's across
VicTAS and SA for me.
So my day-to-day is it can be acombination of in-practice
meetings meeting up withbusiness development managers
(03:21):
who have relationships with ourorganisation to identify any
kind of mutual opportunitiesbetween mutual clients A lot of
internal meetings as well, andinternal meetings varies from
meeting with our other teammembers who might have
initiatives that they're rollingout to our practices.
So it's a whole mix of stuff.
(03:42):
I am on the road quite a bitbecause of the area that I do
cover.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So what area do you cover?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I've got Vic, tass and SA, and Vic also includes
regional Victoria.
So you know I'm off toWarrnambool, horsham, all the
regional areas which I don'tmind going to.
I don't mind a road trip.
Keep myself busy returningphone calls to clients and stuff
or listening to podcasts yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And who are your clients?
They're in practices.
I assume they're financialadvisors.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yes, so they are financial advisors.
So in our industry financialadvisors they either need to be
licensed through a licenseegroup or they can be
self-licensed.
So the two organizations that Iwork for are licensed C groups,
so the clients that I lookafter are licensed through
either PFS or Fortnum.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So they pay you a fee to help them with their
compliance and training and alsodealing with ASIC, rather than
them dealing with ASIC directly.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Correct, so we have professional standards and
guidelines in place for them toadhere to.
We provide the complianceframework.
We provide a lot of technologyimplementation support as well
and for my specific role, it'saround the practice management
support that we provide to them.
So that involves businessplanning.
We followed like a balancedscorecard approach.
(05:02):
There's a lot of accountabilitythat comes with building out a
business plan with a practice aswell, so there's a lot of
people that are involved interms of our organisation that
supports a practice in, I guess,making them more profitable and
more efficient so they can seemore clients.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So there's an element of business coaching involved,
yeah exactly, that's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yep, definitely.
I would almost compare it to afinancial plan and seeing a
client they do a fact findprocess.
We do something very similar toget to know our clients what
business goals do they want toachieve and how can we help them
.
So we do run business planningsessions with a practice and
then we do 90 day action planswith them and keep it to two or
(05:42):
three kind of key initiatives.
We all know that if we end upwith a really big list, we're
not likely to achieve all of it.
So we'll pick two or threeitems each 90 days and it keeps
both parties accountable becauseobviously we're here to support
them, but there'll be some workthat they'll need to do in
terms of working on theirbusiness.
Can it be?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
quite challenging when a business owner has really
big goals but maybe areunrealistic.
And how do you manage that?
Yeah, good question.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think that's the part of the role that I enjoy in
terms of you need to be able tobuild a lot of trust with those
clients and they appreciatewhere you kind of respectfully
challenge them on things.
So I think if you're in thistype of role, you need to be
able to do that and I think theyrespect you a lot more when you
are calling out things.
But I'm also a firm believer ofhaving you know you do need to
(06:35):
have stretch goals.
I think you need to be able toalso call out if a goal is
perhaps a little bit too easy toachieve and to consider more
stretch goals as well.
So I think it does come down tobuilding that trust with the
client and for them, I think,having the trust in us and the
business that's behind me toactually support them to achieve
(06:55):
those goals.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
And your clients obviously set goals or help
their clients set goals, so theywill be familiar with goal
setting and, and you know,aiming to achieve that goal yeah
, exactly which makes it easy,and what is there a part of your
job that maybe you don't likeas much at times?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
oh, that's a difficult question.
Um, I have to admit I think Iactually enjoy all elements of
my role.
I think, you know, even ifthere are days where it's a
little bit difficult, you stillhave to have those ones, and
then you just look back andlearn from you know.
What have you learned?
If it has been a bad day?
(07:37):
Why was it bad?
And is there anything I couldhave done to?
I don't know, switch it aroundand stuff?
I don't think there's everreally like a perfect role as
such.
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
I don't think there's anythingI don't enjoy.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Is it difficult to manage so many clients?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's a great question, fabian.
Look, I think for some of myclients I should provide some
context in the sense of theclients that I do have.
I have some very largecorporatised businesses, so they
would have external businesscoaches as well.
So I may not necessarily playthat part for them in that
business but I play other partsin their business.
(08:18):
So, and then on the other sideyou would have say single
planner practices or startupbusinesses who were perhaps
planners that were employed andvery successful in an employed
financial planner position buthave decided to start their own
business and, you know, take theleap and stuff.
And those practices I loveworking with because there's so
(08:39):
much potential to set them upright from the very start.
So yeah, it kind of varies butI think because every practice
has different needs similar toadvisors with their clients,
from a capacity perspective, Iguess in some way it is
manageable.
We do, where we can, one-to-manytype sessions as well with our
(09:01):
practices.
So on top of my usual practicevisits, I also facilitate peer
groups.
So we run peer groups forbusiness owners.
I've got an incredible one atthe moment which is all female
business owners, which is I getso much energy coming out of
those peer groups.
They are an incredible group offemales who are running their
(09:21):
businesses, and it varies fromwomen who have been running
their business for many years toones that have just recently
joined who are running theirbusinesses, and it varies from
women who've been running theirbusiness for many years to ones
that have just recently joinedwho are startups.
So those kind of sessions giveme a lot of energy in the sense
of they are so generous withtheir time in terms of sharing
ideas, helping each other.
I guess in a way they'recheerleaders for each other.
(09:43):
But yeah, the peer groups help,I guess, in terms of managing
that capacity as well.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Do you have any statistics on how many female
financial advisor businessowners there are out there,
because I couldn't imaginethere'd be a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
No, yes, I don't, and that would be a really
interesting thing to look into.
I I think I feel like I mean,I've worked at quite a few
licensee groups and I would haveto say where I'm at at the
moment there's, I mean, thatwould make a good, I would say,
maybe a third in terms of ournetwork, potentially quarter to
(10:23):
a third in terms of businessowners, or they could be
partners as well in the largercorporatised businesses, which
has been really encouraging tosee, because I think in other
groups that I've worked at, itprobably hasn't been that high.
I think the other good thingthat's probably maybe
contributing to it and weprobably won't see this until
maybe the medium or long term iswe have some fantastic
(10:45):
businesses that recognise theyneed to have female planners in
their businesses, so they areprobably actively kind of
looking to recruit within aswell.
So we've had quite a few PYgraduates who are females.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
So PY professional year.
So if you want to be afinancial advisor, you have to
do a professional year.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah.
So we've got a lot ofbusinesses where they've
recognised internal staff whohave expressed an interest in
becoming a financial planner.
We have a great PY programwhere we support the businesses
in putting one of thosecandidates through the PY
program and we had quite a fewof them that graduated last year
who were females.
So I think it's a greatprofession for females, I think
(11:29):
because it does give flexibilityas they get older if they want
to have family or kids and stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
So you heard it here first, the Finance Written's
podcast.
If you're a female and you wantto be a financial advisor,
there is plenty of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And it's a great profession.
It is.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It's a great profession it is.
It's a fantastic profession, Ithink.
Even I mean that's probably theonly role I haven't done in
terms of my career.
But what I have enjoyed is whenyou get to speak to.
I mean I don't know, maybe theyhave a different way in terms
of dealing with clients andstuff, but they love what they
(12:07):
do.
They're very, just, veryenthusiastic about what they
have like they can do, butthey're very supportive of each
other as well.
So, but in terms of a careerpath for females, you know we've
got lots of.
I mean, if I look at our groupalone, we've got business owners
that are working three or fourdays a week.
You know we've got lots of.
I mean, if I look at our groupalone, we've got business owners
that are working three or fourdays a week, you know, because
(12:27):
they've got children and stuff.
So it provides that flexibility.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You can also have a lifestyle business as well as
just you know, people think thatif you're a financial advisor,
I have to work 12-hour days,five, six days a week, Correct?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But, clearly.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You don't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
No, clearly you don't have to do that.
No, we had a very interestingsession actually at conference
last year.
We do panel sessions because alot of our clients like to hear
from their peers in regards towhat's working, and we have one
session where business ownerswere kind of sharing what they
were doing in their businesses.
That, I guess, for them, gavethem a little bit of balance.
I mean, they worked hard to getto that position.
(13:04):
But you know one practice no oneworks Fridays and that is
becoming even more common thesedays.
I've got a practice in Victoriathat does the same.
No one works Fridays andemployees are happy as well.
They know that they've got fourdays to get all the work done,
a compressed week, but they knowthey've got long weekends every
weekend.
(13:25):
I would love that.
But yeah, I think in regards toflexibility, it's definitely
there.
I mean you still have, like, ifyou were looking at, say, power
planning as a career andthere's a lot of career power
planners out there.
They work from home, they, youknow, charge per SOA that they
produce.
So I think in our industrythere's definitely so much scope
(13:49):
for flexibility if that's whatpeople are looking for.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And just to clarify a paraplanner is someone who
writes the advice document forthe advisor.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
SOA is a statement of advice, which is the advice
document for the client.
So let's bring us back to thebeginning, because there's not a
lot of people that work, youknow, have your profession.
It's quite unique, and how didyou get to where you are?
(14:18):
Where did you start?
What did you study?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I did commerce, accounting and finance.
I wasn't great at accounting.
I did fail my first year.
So, yeah, and I didn't enjoyaccounting.
I mean, I was probably I don'tknow probably a lot of people in
the same space.
Just get your degree and thenfigure it out afterwards.
I was a bit like that.
My very first role was actuallyin a small family owned
(14:43):
financial planning business andthey were looking for a
paraplanner, which I had no ideawhat they did.
But what I did learn fromworking at a small firm is that
you learn about everything.
So rather than being in a bigcorporate and you just doing you
know plans all the time, in asmall business you have to learn
everything else.
(15:03):
So you know when insuranceclaims come through or when you
know your advisor actually tellsa client that their claim came
through and you see the client'sreaction to it.
So, yeah, started off in asmall firm and then had various
roles in power planning, but inthe larger corporate.
So some of the largercorporates have internal power
(15:24):
planning teams, so moved intoone of those.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
So give me an example of a large corporate that you
worked with.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, so back then it would have been AXA that I
moved into an internal powerplanning team.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And they don't exist because AXA got taken over by
AMP.
Who's well?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
AMP still exists, but in entirety Back where I am,
yeah, so I have done a stint inAMP but yeah, so I did
paraplanning.
Then from paraplanning Iactually moved into kind of
compliance, training anddevelopment type roles, which is
great.
So I think with the largecorporates there's advantages
(16:02):
because you get opportunities tomove around and try different
roles.
So at Accel I was veryfortunate to be able to do that,
so did audits, complaintshandling, which I would say is
character building, training anddevelopment in that role.
Then, in terms of getting intopractice management, I was very
(16:26):
fortunate from previous roleswith previous managers I think
AMP was going through arestructure at that stage and
they were looking for theirversions of practice managers
and my name was recommended andI went through the interview
process.
I do feel very fortunate forthat opportunity because it is
(16:47):
very there aren't that manyroles that come up in the space,
as you've mentioned, fabian,earlier.
So they gave me a chance and ifit wasn't for them I wouldn't
be where I am now in terms of,just, you know, various practice
management roles in differentlicensee groups.
So I would say my learningsfrom that in terms of actually
(17:10):
getting into that opportunity isyou know you can't burn bridges
, you network well, because Ithink sometimes people just tap
you on the shoulder because theyknow they've worked with you
before, or yeah, I'm veryfortunate, I could think, for
that very first role at AMP.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's definitely a common denominator the ability
to network, build relationshipsoutside your inner circle,
correct, and that potentially isa skill that may be lost a
little bit for the nextgeneration.
Yeah, but I think that isreally important too.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I think so.
I think you know when you speakto I feel old.
But if you speak to the kind ofnext generation that's looking
to get into the industry, Iwould say you've just got to be
brave and you've got to getyourself out there and get out
there to any networkingopportunity that you have.
Introduce yourself, because Ithink our industry is very
(18:08):
welcoming in terms of anybodythat's interested in talking to
you about financial planning orany other careers in our
industry.
But it's taking that kind ofleap of faith in actually going,
because I know maybe when I,even when I started it's kind of
scary going to like an eventand you might be the only one
there.
But you'll find if you do goeveryone's really friendly and
(18:32):
they all just want to helpsupport that next generation
coming into our industry.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Well, we're both committee members of the FAAA
and if you are a student, you doget free membership, correct,
yeah, and it gives you access toevents, to conference.
So, I would highly recommend it.
We both know each other becauseI worked at a financial
planning firm and you were ourpractice development manager at
the time, and my old employeeused to say go out there and
(18:57):
meet new people, find out whatother businesses are doing and
bring them back to the practice.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Exactly, exactly, and I think that can be applied for
any industry.
But, yeah, I do feel that ourindustry we are very fortunate
that everybody just wants thisindustry to succeed we want to
see that next generation comingthrough.
We've seen, you know, a lot ofplanners exit our industry, so,
(19:22):
you know, the numbers aren't asbig as they used to be, but
you've still got a lot ofAustralians that need financial
planning advice.
So we do have a lot of work, Ithink, to do in terms of
highlighting that this is anamazing industry to be in.
For that next generation tocome through.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, and if someone wants to be a practice manager
development manager, growthmanager what are the key skills
required?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Oh, I would say you have to be really good at
listening, actually, you knowwhat.
I would compare it to very muchthe traits that you would need
for an advisor.
So you're really good atlistening, also asking a lot of
questions.
Being curious, I think, becauseoften you know actually this is
for any business owner, notjust financial planning, but
(20:14):
there's often personal driversaround why they're in the
business of financial planning.
So really kind of uncoveringwhat drives them, because it's,
you know, it's not about oh mygosh, I want to make you know
40% profit, for example.
There's usually some underlyingpersonal reasons as to why
they're in financial planning.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So I might ask you the question what drives you in
your role?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I love that I can help businesses hopefully be
able to see more clients.
You hear all the stories.
I mean, I've worked with somany financial planners and to
hear all the success stories interms of what they've been able
to do in terms of helping theirclients.
They're the stories that Ithink are really fantastic,
(20:59):
because I think financialplanners do such an amazing job.
I think, unfortunately, wedon't hear enough about those
really good success stories.
We hear about all the bad onesthat have happened in our
industry.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Of course, bad stories.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Great clickbait Headlines.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But financial planners do an amazing job and
if I can have any kind of Iguess input into I don't know
how they run their business, oryou know how they run their
business more efficiently, oryou know just a better client
experience, all that kind ofstuff, that's the bit that
drives me.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing.
That's really insightful.
Has there been someone or acouple of people that have been
a big influence on your careerto date?
A big influence on your careerto date.
I would say I reckon there'sprobably a few people actually
(21:53):
Outside of me.
Of course, I was going to getthere, fabian.
I was going to get there.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think I'll probably have a few key people and I
would say, like some are withinthe industry and some are
outside of the industry, sorryand there's one particular lady
I would consider one of myprobably key mentors.
And I say that because, being afemale, and I mean when I
(22:18):
started in the industry, I thinkit was still very much male
dominated and if you're lookingat the leadership roles it's, I
think it still is somewhat maledominated.
And this particular lady I'vealways kind of admired for many
years and early on from mycareer, but I've been able to
see her kind of pivot her career.
So I find that reallyinteresting in the sense of what
(22:43):
I think I want people tounderstand is that, whilst you
might have a particular role,don't feel like that.
That role kind of is it?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Is your forever role.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Correct, because I think I look back at my career.
I mean, I had a stint where Istopped practice management
because opportunities came up totry a national role, for
example, and I remember callingmy mentor going.
I still enjoy practicemanagement, I love it.
But I'm just wondering there'san opportunity here and I'm
(23:12):
wondering whether I should havea go at it.
And her advice was you knowwell, there's nothing stopping
you from going for it.
Why don't you just go for it?
Try it.
If you don't like it, you canalways go back.
So I think, yeah, I definitelylook up to her because I've seen
her career kind of pivot fromdifferent industries and then
(23:35):
she ended up, yeah, back infinancial planning because that
was her passion and that was herlove.
And then I think I found myselfeven doing some of those
national roles.
I really miss working withplanners directly.
When you move into a nationalrole, you're kind of that far
more removed from you knowwhat's actually happening on the
ground.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Is there maybe a sense of purpose lost to a
degree when you're not havingthat?
I?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
think it's.
Yeah, I think there's anelement of that, Like, even
though you're in a national role, you might be delivering an
initiative, but you don't seethe impact, Whereas I think when
you're working directly withadvisors, and even you know the
staff in their businesses, youhear it and you experience it
when you're seeing them all thetime.
(24:17):
So I think you're correct incalling that out.
In the sense of that purposebit is not as tight, if that
makes sense.
But yeah, in terms of yeah, Ihave various mentors.
I think the thing with thementor is they need to be, I
guess, trustworthy, and I dolike that.
(24:40):
They respectfully challenge me.
Yeah, Because I think you needthat.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, you talk about challenge and this has come up
multiple times in the podcastaround.
You know you learn the mostwhen you are challenged.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
So I think that's a good way to end the conversation
and you know, thank you verymuch, sam, for coming on.
Thanks for having me.
You've actually made a bigimpact on my career to date.
I worked in a financialplanning firm.
You were the practicedevelopment manager and as a
result of you, I've volunteeredat a couple of charities that
you've recommended.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, your career has been really good to see on the
sideline too, so that's also agreat thing about our industry
that you see.
You know your friends andcolleagues go through their kind
of journey as well, and there'sjust so much opportunity.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, there is.
It's a great industry financialplanning and the, I guess, the
ecosystem around financialplanning.
So if you are interested inbecoming a financial planner,
highly recommend it.
It's a great industry and lotsof opportunity there.
You know, it's a big growtharea at the moment.
It's a great industry and lotsof opportunity.
It's a big growth area at themoment.
(25:48):
The supply and demand equationis definitely in favour of the
advisor.
But thank you for coming inagain, sam.
It's been a pleasure knowingyou over the journey and look
forward to seeing your careercontinue to prosper Excellent.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Thanks, Fabian.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Disclaimer this podcast exists for informational
and entertainment purposes only.
The personal opinions of thespeaker and guests do not
represent the view of any otherparty.
If this recording containsreference to financial products,
that reference does notconstitute advice nor
recommendations and may not berelied upon.
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