August 11, 2025 ⢠44 mins
The Oval Invincibles Men or Women have won the Hundred every year since it started. How have they done it? Broady sits down with two of the main protagonists behind their success: Invincibles Men's Head Coach Tom Moody and T20 World Champion Sam Curran. What culture has led to back-to-back wins in the men's comp? Has Sam spoken to Baz McCullum about getting back into the England team? And what's it really like playing in the Hundred?This episode is brought to you by Sage, the Official Accounting Software Partner of The Hundred & Laithwaites, the Official Wine Partner of For The Love of Cricket.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Do you have half an eye on getting back into the England
team? I'd.
Love to get back and I watched that Test series this summer.
I was like, wow, how cool is that?
Like if you're a younger player now, I think it would be
everyone says, oh, they'll get afranchise with stuff like that
because I've experienced Test cricket, World Cup win in
Australia, stuff like that. That still burns strong inside
me because I've experienced it. Players, I think, choose
(00:23):
franchises for the wrong reasons, whether it be
financial, because ultimately everyone's, everyone's play for
their country. You know the Holy Grail is Test
cricket. There's a lot more, I think,
strategical tactics in the 100 than there probably is in the
T20 game because there's so manyunique things that people don't
know. What's that like bowling the the
temple? You don't want 10 at the death.
You don't want 10 at the death. Have you ever, as a coach,
(00:45):
walked out and gone? I've got absolutely nothing for
you. Hi, I'm Stuart Broad, without
Josh Butler you might have seen the news and we're sending a big
hug to my mate Jose and his family.
With 100 in full swing, we're joined by a pair of two time
champions, Oval Invincible star all rounder Sam Curran and their
(01:06):
coach Tom Moody. Right guys, let's go straight
into it. The Oval Invincible is hugely
successful. Women have won two titles.
You guys have gone back-to-back moods.
I'll start with you. Having both of you been there
from the start, is there anything you can put your finger
on that has made the Invinciblesso successful?
Certainly from the the men's point of view, one thing that we
tried to do right from the get go and it was pretty much a
(01:28):
directive from the ECB anyway. And that that is to try to pick
within your catchment. And you know, we we're we're
partnered with Kent County Cricket Club.
So with Surrey and Kent we've tried to not only with players
but with coaches as well, try tohave that continuity.
And I think that has been quite powerful at the beginning,
(01:48):
trying to maintain. That's been a challenge,
particularly when you do start to see some success.
But I think the players sort of see the positive side of being
involved in a core group. So I think that's probably the
number one reason. Yeah, Sammy, part of a
leadership group within this this franchise.
How have you found it like building team spirit?
(02:09):
Because if you're a Surrey player, you know a lot of those
guys, but there are guys that come in from different places.
Yeah, I think obviously I've worked with Moods and a couple
of other teams with the from thestart with the Invincibles as I
think they're like Mood said, they're kind of, we've kept it
quite a lot with the Surrey boyswho are there and obviously Bill
by being captain with that Ken side of things.
And then you add coaches like Matt Walker Trout who's at
(02:29):
Surrey Walks was at Kent when wefirst started, things like that.
So the familiarity of players and coaches has always been
there. And obviously like Mood said,
year by year it's quite hard to hold on to the everyone.
But even like this year we've got Jordan Clark who's had done
really well at Surrey. So it's another Surrey based
player who's done really well. I think it's just that kind of
even today we rock up to training and it's so natural and
(02:51):
familiar. You're sitting in the same spot
and kind of you have that banterof what guys arguing where
you're going to sit and you're kind of a side place.
So that's my locker mate, I can say.
My name's on it. There it is exactly.
So it's it's quite like it's gotthat nice feel to it and
everyone that comes in is kind of always there's doing me
wrong. I'm probably a little bit
biased, but Oval's such a great place to play 100 cricket, T20
(03:12):
cricket, anything. So we're pretty lucky in that
way. Yeah, how good are those new
change rooms as well, by the way?
Is it take you back right to thestart?
Moods you, the men and women, were there?
Were there certain things that the Invincible said?
We want to play our cricket likethis, We want to behave in
certain ways. Did you control that?
Did you control the mindset or did that come from sort of
above? I was pretty fortunate from a
(03:33):
men's standpoint that that I hadboth hands on the steering
wheel. Having had such a long
friendship with Alex Stewart, DOC at at Surrey, he trusted me
with everything. So when it come to recruitment
or anything around preparing forthe tournament or during
(03:55):
tournament, he'd just let me go.So that that makes things a lot
easier because you can then put your own stamp on it, your own
style on it without any sort of external interference.
And that can be one of the challenges with franchise
cricket because not only do you have your own style of playing
you, you also have your own style of the environment you
(04:16):
want to set, which reflects whatyou're like as a coach but also
reflects who's in the dressing room.
Because you know, if you've got a young group of players, your
style might be slightly different from a coaching
perspective. But we've got quite a mature
group that have played a lot of cricket around the world
internationally and it's just empowering that group.
(04:37):
And if you can keep that group together, that empowerment only
gets gets stronger. So, you know, I've been
fortunate to have the ability tobe able to pull those levers and
and create hopefully, you know, a positive environment.
Yeah. So Sammy, is there anything
specific you need to do for the 100 outside of T20?
Do you do you train slightly differently?
(04:58):
Is the lifestyle different or isit really similar to a normal
T20 franchise tournament? I think the, the best thing
about I guess the 100 for me is that it's AI played a lot around
the world and all these franchise comps, but as an
overseas player and now we've got our own franchise
tournaments playing as a local player things pretty.
It's not unique, but it's uniquefor us because we've never
experienced that in England. So I think the training and
(05:21):
stuff is very, very, very similar.
I think the the pattern of the game obviously different with
the 1010 ball kind of sets as you'd call them in five ball
sets and. What's that like bowling the 10
ball? Do you do decide on the spot?
It's like, I fancy this, I'm going for it.
Or is it a preset like I'm goingto bowl?
No, I think it's in the moment. Obviously with Bilbo's captain
behind the stumps. It's kind of even for example,
(05:42):
the other night where you got the best in the world and Rashid
Khan kind of batsman bit of turnnot really picking him.
So the worst nightmare if I'm batting there and you can't pick
someone, you're like, OK, get through to the end of the set.
But then you're like, oh God, hecan go again.
It's like you have to get off strike.
And that's why I think the hundreds stood out for me.
Is is in last year's final, we think the brave were about 70 to
(06:05):
win or 50 balls. And you thinking there in the
driving seat and then I think itwas, I can't remember exactly,
border grade 5 balls and then went again.
So yes. Exactly was the first game of
he. He sort of came.
In now came in towards the end 'cause he had had a few
injuries, but he came in at the end.
And that that's a good example because you know when you got a
bowler that's running hot, you just continue.
(06:27):
And you know as a former former now bowler that you know when
you in a real sweet spot with rhythm and there's movement,
everything is in your favor or it's a spinners point of view,
you press the button and go. But interesting enough,
statistically that second set hasn't really proven to be
fruitful. Oh really?
If you look at across the tournament, but in isolated
(06:49):
situations, you can make your own assessment internally to
whether it works for you and that there are moments.
We thought that's one of the reasons very early on we secured
Narine in that first very year, because with the rules you could
effectively bowl Narine 20 ballswithin the 1st 25 balls of the
game. So yeah, he bowls the 1st 10,
(07:10):
someone bowls 5 at the other end, and then he bowls five and
five. He's done.
You can then put him in the dugout.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, don't get me
wrong. It goes the other way though.
Someone's obviously you guys bowl at the bowl at the death.
It's like you don't intend at the death, you don't intend at
the. Death, but you have done that.
You have, but don't get me wrong, that's when you've got a
wicket and there's a new bat andyou say build back and sneak one
(07:31):
in. Here.
I think as well in England we play a lot with short side, long
side. So I think being quite smart
about that. If you got 10 to alongside,
that's when you can really squeeze the game and use the
boundary size. But I think it's extremely
unique and I think it's it makesthe games a little bit more
even. Like I said, last year's final,
I thought the brave were cruising and suddenly you get a
wicket, then another wicket, youlook up, it is about 70 or 40
(07:52):
balls and it's totally different.
So I I actually like the the sets like that, but it can go
the other way as well. It feels like it builds pressure
quite quickly because the game disappears.
You're right, the scoreboard just evaporates on you pretty
quickly. Do you find that when you're
batting that you're trying to get yourself in and have a feel
for it, but suddenly 3 dot ballsfeels feels like everyone's
(08:12):
staring at you to hit a boundary?
Yeah, I think it links to that. The sets of, you know, a guy can
go again if you're struggling. I think don't get wrong, 100
balls is still, we talk a lot about it as a batting group,
still a lot of balls. You've got guys like Jaxi at the
top who's so explosive. But what he's done so well for
us, he's actually taking the game fractionally deeper for us.
And we've got such power throughthe kind of back end of our of
(08:32):
our group. It's, it's, it's interesting
because you know, if you're three or three or four, three or
five, you're damn. And I'm a bit of pressure.
Yeah. But then if the guy goes again,
that's where you got to be smartof try get off strike because
the other guy might be facing him better.
So there's a lot more, I think, strategical tactics in the 100
than there probably is in the T20 game because there's so many
unique things that people don't know.
(08:53):
Do you find now we're into Season 5 and you've played all
of them, Do you find you've settled into those little tactic
tactical niches a little bit more now?
Yeah, I think especially like what Mood said, we've kept it
quite similar and continuous with our squad.
So for instance, we had Zamps last year as our leg spinner.
Now this year we've got Rashid Khan, so he's almost slipped
into Zamps as well. And then you've got Barrandoff,
(09:15):
he's come for Spencer Johnson. So like it's been quite, I went
big up moods in that way, but it's kind of like it's like
being very smart with how we've signed players in terms of I
guess like we turned up to training two days out from the
spirit game the other evening islike our roles are exactly the
same. We there's no like doubt of what
we're doing. And I think that does help.
Yeah. So did the Rashi Khan signing
(09:36):
come when you knew Adam Zampa couldn't come and you wanted
like for like? Because he's AI mean?
He's a hell of a signing to get hold of, yeah.
I look, to be honest with you, all of those in that sort of
Rashid Khan, Zamps Narayan, they're all in that real premium
specialist spinner knee should be, you know, you'd be
overwhelmed to have any of them.So yeah, look, you know, I knew
(09:58):
as part of our formula that we needed that sort of unique
spinning edge. And what it does, it balances
outside, but it also complementswhat we've got with our spin as
well. Because Nathan Souter, for
instance, who seems to fly underthe radar, but you only have to
look at his blast numbers, look at what he does, has done in the
(10:19):
100 over recent years. You know, he plays a significant
role for us as well in complementing that middle phase.
And quite often he's sort of left in the shade because you've
got a Narine or a Zamper or Russia Khan that always talked
about. But then you you turn to what
he's doing. He's doing a huge amount of
lifting. Yeah, Yes.
I want to just go into your sortof coaching career a little bit.
(10:42):
You've had you've had great success.
Is it going a little bit down the football route that you take
your own staff around with you to to different franchise
tournaments or every tournament you turn up to have you got a
different backroom staff? It's pretty pretty much
different for me. I think that potentially could
change over time, particularly if you are under, I suppose the
(11:04):
roof of one of these conglomerates that have multiple
franchises around the world. You might then be part of a, you
know, an off field team, if I could put it that way.
I don't mind the the change because, you know, from my
coaching point of view, if I've got, you know, whether it be a
player or a or a coach, if I've got a new voice with new ideas,
(11:25):
I welcome that, you know, because, you know, the day you
stop trying to evolve yourself and learning about what's
actually happening on the ground, you don't become as
relevant. You know, I think it's really
important to listen to people like junior or younger players
or even senior players or coaches just to get their
thoughts. It doesn't mean you have to take
that path every single time, butit's important you keep a very
(11:48):
open mind. Yeah, Junior with your your sort
of T20 queer how it's, you're obviously a brilliant new ball
bowler. You've got great talent with the
bat sometimes. You've been in different roles
at different times, haven't you?Where do you see your best role
with both ball and bat? I do think it's naturally
changed. There's no question my last
three or four years, you can seemy my roles in teams, especially
(12:09):
the 100 and kind of for Surrey and probably batting in that top
five. And I do feel very adaptable
with the ball. So I think that's one of my
strengths. And I guess it's just trying to
being an all rounder, you want to contribute at all times.
But I think sometimes as an all rounder you can always you can
fill holes in teams and in termsof which is great.
But at the same time, I think sides that I've done my best is
(12:31):
probably getting the best out ofmy batting fractionally higher
up the order and kind of using that adaptability with the ball.
Business of cricket is powered by sage, the official accounting
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(12:51):
the world of cricket. To find out how you can grow
your small business with AI enabled tools like sage copilot,
visit sage.com tell us what you do and how it all started.
So I'm Chris Page and I run and work for Elite back refurbs.
Basically we look after a lot ofpros bats and club cricketers
bats. When I was at university that
was probably the pinnacle of my cricket career.
(13:13):
I was playing for Rotherham in the Yorkshire League so we had
players like Gary Balan's Oliverand Dolby Joe Rue bestow.
I used to DJ at the time as wellin Sheffield so I'd often see
Joe knocking about the town centre and yes sparked up a bit
of a friendship. How did you develop this into a
business? So my first job was about 5 of
(13:34):
Joe's bats and one of Moe's justbefore the Manchester test of
the Ashes. So you know, no pressure from
Joe, He passed my number on to salty.
So Phil Salt started using me just before the Island test.
I've got a mate who works with Freddie for the 100.
So obviously when the 100 was happening last year I got a few
(13:54):
lads from Northern Superchargersusing me.
So this is Ollie Pope's number one bat.
Picked it up from the Oval this morning.
That's binding across the bottomwhich basically now the bats are
so big compared to how they usedto be.
The they're under pressed, so they're not.
If you look at a cricket bat from years ago, they're probably
about this thin. They'll last you a lifetime more
(14:15):
than a seed oil than wood. Whereas these are quite big,
really light under pressed. They crack a lot.
When these guys find one that they really like, they like to
keep hold of it and maintain it and and make sure it doesn't
break. There's so many challenges
running a small business. What challenges have you faced?
Just the inconsistency. So you know, they're just so
busy. County cricket, the 100,
international cricket, so it's good, but they all just seem to
(14:37):
come at once or they want six ofthe bats doing and then you
might not see them again for four or five months.
So just know you're worth, make sure you've got a product that
you know is going to bring in a certain income and what that's
worth. When you come into these these
different tournaments around theworld, do you have half an eye
on getting back into the Englandteam?
(14:59):
Because you're right, you get different roles in in franchise
cricket, which then maybe cloudsthe judgement of the England
management of like I see some current doing exactly that.
Do you have chats with Brendan McCallum of where you want to
get back into the team, where you see your role being guy?
Must say from my point of view, when it came to Test side, I
loved you being in my team because you had this amazing
(15:20):
ability to pick big moments in games, whether it was with
Battle Boy, you'd come on, knockoff peg out the ground when
nothing was happening. You know, it's, I think that's a
big trait for international cricketers that you want the
pressure, you sort of rise to the pressure.
So there's, you know, you've still got a huge amount of
cricket ahead of you, but where do you see yourself in that
(15:40):
international scene? Yeah.
I think it's obviously probably this is the first time my career
probably since I started. I think I look back because I've
had a bit of time to reflect on where I'm at, has had seven
years, flew out the blocks in terms of playing for England,
playing for Surrey, franchise tournaments, all this kind of
stuff. And this is probably the only
time I found myself at the at the squads.
(16:01):
And I don't think it's I've had chats with McConnell.
I went for breakfast with him a few start of the summer, just
had conversations about where where he sees me and I won't go
into those details. But it's more I know, I know on
my side of things. I'll get back in.
It's just kind of I'm sorry, I'mactually really happy with how
the the summer's gone in terms of I got back to Surrey.
(16:22):
He even said it's not the worst thing to slow down in terms of
have a few months out and kind of come back strong, work hard
and it's interesting. Now I sit back turn up to the
over today I've got hunting 100 trophy hunting the championship
with Surrey, hunting the blast for Surrey tension of three
trophies there. So which is great for me.
Great. I'm I'm really ambitious for
trophies. I think guys get not judged on
(16:45):
their trophies, but I think it'sa good indication of where
you're playing in successful teams you've got to win things.
I'm a massive believer in that bit.
In terms of England stuff, I'd love to get back and I watched
that Test series this summer. I was like, wow, how cool is
that? Like I think it probably if
you're a younger player now, I think it would be everyone says,
oh, they've got a franchise withstuff like that because I've
experienced Test cricket, World Cup win in Australia, stuff like
(17:08):
that. That still burns strong inside
me because I've experienced it and I'm I'm, I'm a pretty
relaxed guy and very competitiveon the field.
But I do see the bigger picture and like you said, I've got a
lot of time left. So our fingers crossed it'll be
not too long. You talk about slowing down.
It's an interesting point because really you could play
cricket every month of the year with franchise tournaments all
(17:29):
around the world. Do you, do you have to sort of
pick and choose a little bit which you think will suit you,
your development or do you just go, do you know, I'm going to
play as much as I can and, and you know, develop as a player
that way? It's a good question.
I think when you when you're playing with England, I think
it's you just purely focused on your England stuff and you're
(17:50):
like, Brad, I've got the ODI tour coming up, T20 tour there,
Test tour there and that's how you plan your year.
But probably this last six months when I've been on the
outside, I've probably been a bit more strategical about where
I've chosen in terms of, I guesswhen I got left out of the
England side, I, I actually wentto the desert Vipers where moods
is moods is in charge there about and I was flat.
(18:10):
I had a chat with moods before Iwas pretty flat.
Like kind of my ambitions, like I thought I'd probably be on
those tours to India. And then I went there at the
greatest time, played really well and we got to a final and
all the coaches there knew my game and knew how I get the best
out of me. So I thought that was a great
plan to go to there and then finish that went to the IPL.
Now I've come back played for Surrey.
(18:31):
And so you plan your I think I'ma big believer.
The tournaments you can choose to go to, it's got to be right
for your cricket in terms especially where I'm at now,
it's kind of there's so many opportunities, but I think it's
you've also got to realize that you could go to all these
tournaments, but like you said, I have a lot of time left.
But some guys don't have the choice to go to different
tournaments and they'll go at everything.
(18:51):
But I think where I'm out of my career, I just want to try and
go to places where people know me and get the best out of me.
In terms of sometimes you can goto a random tournament and bat
at 8 and do some average bowlingand you get through it.
It's fine. But I think at the end, I always
kind of look at like this might sound silly, but like Bravo and
Pollard have like a little joke who's got the most trophies and
(19:12):
like kind of they have this bit of banter between them and I
want to be that guy. And when I'm 3839.
Winding Tom up. Winding TC up and or somewhere
like that going listen man, I'vewon 25 trophies like where you
kind of at? And I think so many different
players are so different in their ambitions in terms of some
guy's love. They want to be the leading run
(19:34):
scorer of the 100 or I'd like literally we've we had a team
talk at the Invincibles the other day and the whole thing's
about we're going for the third trophy.
It's all about that. Like the other night, it's all
about one goal. And I think that's very
important in franchise cricket where it can sometimes be.
The other way, no, I agree with that just.
Just a point you, you raised junior around that players in
(19:54):
franchise cricket, that's one ofthe biggest challenges for
players today. And I see sort of as a person on
the outside as a coach or ADOC is that players I think choose
franchises for the wrong reasons, whether it be financial
or just what whatever their reasons are without sort of
(20:16):
strategically thinking about their own growth as a player.
And they're the same players what they were the year before
or five years before that. So I think you know from a young
player's point of view that theyshould be making their decisions
based on how they're going to continue to evolve and develop
because ultimately everyone's, everyone wants to play for their
country. You know, the Holy Grail is Test
(20:36):
cricket. To be able to play Test cricket
for your country is something unique, which both you guys know
also playing in World Cups is also very unique.
So both those white bull World Cups, that should be your focus.
You're only going to get those opportunities if you continue to
grow and a lot of players go in and come out exactly the same as
what they were. I think from your point of view,
(20:59):
moods like when you start a tournament, you might get four
or five days before the tournament to get all these
different players coming together.
Some have been playing cricket, some might be a bit tired, some
are in form, some are out of form because you'll have signed
them six months ago. Do you see yourself very much as
a manager where you're getting people together, you're growing
what you're playing for, rather than someone who's just giving
(21:20):
throw downs and trying to help? Technically the. 100 percent,
100% To me, franchise cricket, it is about building an
environment where players can feel they can express themselves
without sort of being judged. Yeah, it's hard enough game as
it is, particularly the shorter format of the game because your
errors are very much exposed. In Test cricket, you bowl about
(21:43):
over and you come back and take two in the next over.
In T20 cricket or in 100 cricket, you bowl about over
that you only bowl one over for the game, particularly if you've
got depth in your bowling. So you're really exposed.
So, you know, I just think that's so important.
Change is coming next year, isn't it?
We've had investors from all over the world, including CEOs
(22:03):
of of Google and YouTube. How do you think that is going
to change how the tournament's run, how it's all shaped up?
Or do you think actually it won't change your job at all?
I think, I think it's going to change depending on which
environment you're in. Some environments you find that
(22:25):
ownership sort of try to, you know, nearly take over and take
they're both hands on the steering wheel using analogy I
used before, but it, you know, and it becomes nearly
micromanaged and it's very difficult to create.
Like what we've talked about at the Oval.
When you have that situation, you always hear the cliche of,
(22:46):
oh, we try to have a family environment, all those.
Well, to create that family environment, you can't have many
fathers. You know, you've got to try to
have one clear direction to create culture.
And as we know with culture, it's getting the right people to
create that. It's not, it's not just a, you
know, it's a word that's thrown around a lot, but you, you've
(23:06):
got to have the personnel to do that, which is really important.
I agree. And the playing side, the 100 we
all know was created to bring new fans to the game, get more
eyeballs on cricket. But as a player, are you aware
that it's an entertainment industry or are you just OK,
this is cricket, I'm here to deliver my skill.
(23:27):
I think with the 100, I've definitely noticed more like
kids in the crowd in terms of I guess the way it's been planned
and it's alongside the the holidays period and great
weather and stuff like that. I think that's hugely, it's
amazing to kind of play games when there's like I remember
myself as a kid watching maybe not T20 and Test cricket, stuff
like that. You look up to these guys and
you want to be those guys who ofcourse you want to entertain and
(23:49):
stuff like that and win. But I'm all of that's my
ambition, like I just said, was you want to win and you want to,
yes, you're entertaining by winning.
But I think the 100's been greatfor for I think the players in
England and stuff like that. Because obviously, like you
said, there's been doing a wrongloads of private investment.
The tournament's only going to get bigger and stronger and
better. So I think it's exciting as a
(24:11):
player because I feel we've got a big part to play and that keep
the tournament going, keep the quality of cricket high and try
and inspire the next generation of people who want to play
cricket. So I think it's an exciting
time. But yeah, like you said, there's
definitely a lot of change coming.
What are his great strengths do?You want to leave the room?
We won't be able to get him out.He's got to be that big.
(24:35):
Yeah, obviously a multi skilled player which which we all, which
we all know and we see on display what I see sort of, I
suppose the public don't see is,is a natural leader, you know,
someone that's a big character in the in the dressing room.
So, you know, touching on that culture piece, you've got to
(24:55):
have people like Junior around to be, to be able to stick that
together, to stitch it together in a dressing room.
And you need more than one, obviously.
So, you know, to me, that leadership, that sort of that
that character that helps build that culture is absolutely
critical. So the cricketer, you know, he's
got enormous upside and enormousstrengths.
(25:16):
And I think his journey is just starting.
And you know, on the on the other side, which is a really
important piece in any dressing room, whether it's a franchise
dressing room or not, is that sort of leadership who?
Have you learnt from SO as a coach?
Obviously you had great success as a player when you got on this
coaching journey. People sort of dip in and out of
(25:36):
different environments to to gather their own thoughts and
knowledge of. Can you sort of remember a time
we thought, you know what, that's the direction I want to
go in. Well, I, I, when I, when I
retired all those years back 2000 I think it was, I had no
intentions to get back into the game.
I was working for a constructioncompany and you know, back then
(25:57):
you sort of you had part time job and and you were playing
cricket as well. So I was going down that path
and it wasn't until probably a year, a year and a half into
that journey post retirement, I got a call out of the blue to
get involved in coaching. First it was with Middlesex
called me and then a week later Worcester called me with a
pretty similar sort of, you know, offer of coming in as DOC
(26:20):
head coach and that was when theadrenaline started to pump again
and I never, ever thought that would happen.
It and the game back then, therewasn't as many opportunities,
whether it be in the commentary box or whether it be in the
coaching dugout. It's completely different now.
There's many, many jobs because there's so many different
platforms. So I then sort of learnt I
(26:41):
didn't have a coaching card at that point, you know, any level
of coaching. So I then threw the ECB when I
came over and took over at Worcester, did all my coaching
accreditations. And I've just found learning
from everyone is really important throughout the whole
journey. And as I touched on earlier, you
(27:02):
know, even today, I think, you know, it's really important to
keep an open mind to learn from people around you.
And I'm a different coach today than I was 20 years ago or five
years ago. And I think that's really
important to continue to evolve and be your authentic self.
You know, there's no point looking at another coach that's
really successful and thinking, oh, I'm going to do that.
(27:24):
I'm going to, you know, go down that path.
That's perfect. That's, you know, really
successful for him because that's not your identity.
That's not, you know, your authentic best.
So I think, yes, look at that, learn from that and maybe apply
it in your way. That's probably the biggest
lesson I've learned. Because you've talked about
building a culture environment about local players, whether
(27:45):
it's Surrey can that also bringsin the guys living around that
area and and going home. Whereas a lot of franchises
you'll get into the hotel and you're all together.
How do you manage that? How do you throw out a
tournament? Keep the guys close, keep them
talking, keep them spending timetogether.
I think first and foremost that's an advantage that we have
(28:06):
with having those local players is that I think it's important
if there's an opportunity for them to sleep in their own bed,
be around family or what what what's important to them outside
of cricket. I think it's really important to
for them to be able to reset andrecharge.
There's obviously players that don't have that advantage and
you've got to go the hotel route, but it's accepting that
(28:27):
for one and thinking of that as an advantage against a
disadvantage. And secondly, because there's a
familiarity. Once people hit that dressing
room together, if training's at 1:00 and people are in that
rooms at 12:30, you wouldn't have known whether someone slept
in a hotel or not because the connection is immediate.
(28:48):
And that's because the familiarity that's around the
group. It might be slightly different
if you had constant change and arevolving door with your squad
and with your coaching staff, but we haven't gone down that
path because we've sort of believed in another another
route, so I think that helps us massively.
From a player's point of view, Sammy, how do you get guys maybe
(29:11):
debuting or coming into the group feeling like how you would
feel about that badge on your shirt, the Oval, invisible,
You've been there from the start, You care deeply about the
Oval, the cricket ground. How do you get those players
just to connect to to what it's like playing for for this group?
Or actually, do you not need to?No, I think it's very important.
I think we've had a little kind of way of like you said, we only
(29:34):
joined up four days before the tournament.
So it's quite a quick kind of wefinished a four day game on the
Friday and we got to get on the Saturday and we had like a we've
had a team dinner before every, every year and.
Our moods is card or it's. Actually.
Bouncing down the road. No, we kind of like mixed it
round and made jokes about the captain's bonus and guys who are
(29:57):
getting paid the most and all this kind of stuff.
So the boys have been really good on that side of things.
But it was a funny one actually is about 3 days out.
We've had like a little social committee, organized little team
events and stuff. And about four weeks out, Saki
kind of put on the group saying,why don't we book this place for
the, for the team dinner. And we've gone to the, we've
gone to the same restaurant 2 years in a row and we've won two
(30:19):
trophies. And myself and Towanda Mouye,
who are kind of on the Social Committee at the moment, is kind
of. You put yourself on the social.
Yeah, just because you're no thelocal.
No, the local knowledge was. Placed there.
But and then me and Towanda, we just shut them down straight
away, said we're going straight back.
So we've been to the same restaurant three years in a row,
hoping for the, we won't mentionit, but hoping for the, the
(30:41):
third, the third trophy, which Iactually going back to cricket
in a way I do. I think this year is going to be
the hardest year. I think it's going to be a, the
teams look a lot more even and people know the the format, but
and going back to the, the culture of our side, I think we
do a little initiation. So guys kind of who come in kind
of talk us through what what it means to play for the
(31:03):
Invincible. Stuff like small little things
like that, which I think can kind of break the ice in terms
of just getting into an environment so quick when it's
three days out. That, that that's done in a very
informal way. Yeah.
So it's not like, you know, I want you to go away and prepare
something. And, you know, it's just done in
a very fun way. Some people get up, stand on a
chair and make a joke of it, andothers take it a bit more
(31:24):
seriously, you know, so it's just very organically, really.
Do you have anything up in the changing room, sort of like
messages or or things that you try and repeat with your
mindset? So if I link back to the Test
match side, nothing's up in the change room, but Brendan
McConnell will always be going run towards the danger talking
in that moving forward, move thegame forward.
Is there language that you guys sort of connect to all the time?
(31:47):
Once there is any like signs or anything, I think there's
obviously messaging and little team talks that we have on the
field and stuff. I think in the 100, the time
think of examples, the timing ofof the sets is so tight.
Like the other night we got we got penalized for being a little
bit slow. It's kind of things like that.
I think good teams avoid becausethey know where they're fielding
(32:07):
so well. It's kind of like can we mark we
can kind of same areas of the ground less movement, stuff like
that. I don't I think it does help.
I go back to the continuity of the players that we've had and
coaches. It's like the messaging's been
the same every single year and it's that consistency and
players don't really doubt. The tactical time out that's
seen throughout, but it's in the100.
(32:28):
Have you ever, as a coach, walked out and gone?
I've got absolutely nothing for you.
I often think that when I'm thinking.
That true? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think yes, it's a good
question and the answer is yes. Therefore you don't say anything
for the sake of saying something.
And you just may go around to a few individuals and certainly
(32:50):
speak to your captain every single time.
But there's other times that it's quite critical.
And the point that Junior brought up in the final last
year, for instance, when Saki bowled that second set, that was
between a tactical timeout and Bilbo and I were talking about
and I said, you know, run with Saki go again, because Pollard
was the key wicket at that point.
(33:11):
And I just felt in our team, alldue respect, Junior Saki, where
he was at that point was the most likely person to get him
out. And to me that was a critical
point because he was tossing up.And it's a difficult thing with
the captain is that, you know, it's very subjective, isn't it?
You you might think that's a better option versus that.
But if you've got a an outside view, which I was giving Bilbo
(33:34):
at that point, sometimes you need that clarity.
Do you think coaching will go more interactive?
I know you'll go out on a time out, but do you think you'll
ever get to the stage where you know Formula One, the drivers,
chatting to the say coach or your position all the time?
Do you think it will ever get into the stage where there'll be
constant communication? We saw the late Bob Warmer do
that or try to do that in the 99World Cup here in England with
(33:58):
Hansi Crenier and that was shut down very quickly by the ICCI.
Don't know whether we'll get themic up situation, but I think
we're starting to see the analytics of the game becoming
more and more valuable. And I think cricket is a sport
that there are sort of more opportunities for set plays, you
know, certain situations around fields or bowlers or, or batting
(34:22):
moments. And I think that it's really
important if you can get that advantage, that 5% advantage on
an opponent, why wouldn't you take it?
Because, you know, games are wonby off the last ball, one by one
run, you know, all those type ofthings in there that can make
the difference to, you know, push the boundary in your
favour. When you've Captain Sammy, do
you go on the fields, OK, I've got 100 balls or 20 overs,
(34:47):
you're bowling there, you're bowling there.
Or do you try and go out really fluid and just sort of go with
the flow? I think in a way linking to the
Oval, I think we're quite lucky with the surfaces we play on in
terms of strategic. I always find at the Oval we've
always had a good wicket. So it's kind of you have no
doubts in your mind really, is it going to turn?
Is it not? So I think I've when I've
(35:09):
captained a very much go my gut feel a lot of the time, like you
generally know your first 4-5 overs in the power play, but
then once you've read the surface, maybe you got a couple
of wickets, you kind of go with your your gut instinct.
But I think it helps having a lot of leaders around you like
like we a little leadership teamand most teams that I play and
it's kind of like you can bounceoff ideas like this team,
(35:29):
Bilbo's behind the stump, so he can't always chat to the bowler.
So it's like myself, Jack C kindof field and situation positions
where you can kind of just if you see anything and I linking
back to the the coaching side ofthings.
I actually, I think it's quite an interesting obviously look in
the IPL, some like Ashish Nehra's on the boundary, like
really involved. Obviously there's levels to it.
But I do think if I think peoplesee the game differently from
(35:52):
outside the pitch, which like Mood said, they could be the
tiniest thing that they see thatas a captain you might not be
able to see. So and then if you don't tell
them and then the game's over, then say the coach gets annoyed
or something. I think why not say something
like, you seeing it maybe, like,I know Morgues when Morgues is
Captain England. He had those, like, little signs
(36:13):
and obviously playing with Morgues and no one knew what
they were. But he did.
So which I thought was quite a cool, like, initiative, like,
because there's nothing worse. If you think your name doesn't
come up, you're like, morgues doesn't want me to bowl.
Yeah, like no one knew what. Sam Curry.
No. No.
No, like no one knew. I certainly maybe other players
did, but when those things came up I was like, those could mean
(36:35):
anything. So Sammy, you're always evolving
as a player in the hundreds so far I've noticed this little, I
want to call it the moon ball, but it's been quoted as the
slower, slower, slower ball. Where's that come from?
And sort of why have you added it to your armoury?
Yeah, it's got a lot of tracks in the last few days, which is
not concerning, but I guess. So it goes from 80, I'll build
(36:56):
you up at 83 miles an hour to 47.
Even 43 came up on our Speedo. That's slow.
Yeah. I think probably five years ago
during COVID, we had a IPLI played with Bravo Chennai and he
was obviously master of that kind of dipper like the one that
goes up and he's very over the top and quick action, whereas
(37:17):
I've got quite a quick action, but probably a little bit more
slingy and not being that expressed pace.
I kind of obviously I've always backed my slow balls back of the
hands yorkers stuff I had. I kind of, but like you said,
you want to evolve as a bowler because guys are constantly
developing. Batters can hit for hours.
Bowlers naturally you don't bowlfor hours.
You kind of do your stuff and move on.
But I think it's something I've just added because I when I face
(37:40):
someone who's say a 145 bowler and he bowls his slow ball at
1:20, that's like a 25 mile an hour difference like in
kilometers, sorry, in terms of so you actually feel the slower
ball, like you actually get doneby the the speed.
Whereas I found over the years, my slow balls probably only been
about 10K slower. And guys were, if there's
nothing in the surface, there's probably not huge amounts of
(38:03):
like deception. I don't like I said, like we
laugh about it now, but come it does get hit, don't get me
wrong, but it's more just I feelif a batsman knows I can do
something a little bit unique. It's like when you face a
mystery spinner, you might not, they got a little bit more
doubt. Whereas I feel you have to be
creative. Guys are developing so fast, so
you got to pick your guys. You do it too.
Because I do feel there's guys who pick up slow balls better
(38:25):
than other players. So you got to be smart when to
use it. But if they know you can do that
and there's some sort of deception, it's I feel like I
can add value to it. And people laugh, oh, it's
really slow. But at the same time it's no.
I played with Mitch Stantner recently with Surrey.
He's a spinner, but he bowls a slow, slow one.
And they you do guys. He said he just doing guys for
(38:45):
if his is slow. You think about it, someone just
under arms your ball, they have to create all the power.
But so it's more the deception. I think it's the main point is
your arm speed's got to be the same.
But yeah, I guess don't get me wrong, I'm a bit nervous talking
about it because someone's goingto go bang, but.
But just for kids, how long did it take you to feel comfortable
to bowl that in top level sport?Yeah, it's taking a long time.
(39:09):
I think naturally my slow ball is always like a natural quick,
normal slow ball. But I think I've worked so hard
and trying to keep the arm speedthe same and then you're just
trying to like it's more landing.
I feel like I've got better at landing the right length.
I think you can naturally ball as slow as you want, but it's
the controlling of length. I think it's quite important.
It takes, it's taking a long time and doing it wrong.
It's not the it's not the finished piece, but more
(39:32):
confident to bowl it and say 100game.
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(39:52):
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Yeah, I like a glass of wine, the Stuart Broad wine.
Good food, good company. It's always nice to.
Yeah, spend time with family andfriends and a good bottle of
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(40:34):
Well I can't let you guys leave without talking.
Ashes coming this winter obviously.
Got an Aussie in the room and anEnglishman Moody.
Got any sort of predictions or mindset on it?
How do you think the Aussies aretracking?
I won't give you a Glen McGrath prediction.
He normally just goes 5 nil, 5 nil.
Yeah, that was when he was becoming a not.
(40:55):
Playing. Yeah, he's not playing alongside
Shane Warne and Ricky Ponting. I think it's going to be really
close. There's no question that England
have struggled when they've comeDown Under.
I think that's more from a bowling standpoint and it'll be
interesting to get your thoughtson why that is.
But I think just adapting to Australian conditions, the ball
(41:15):
itself is a big shift a lot froma lot of English bowlers, fast
bowlers. I think with Australia's
uncertainty with their top order, that has I brought the
two teams closer together with regards to what the outcome is
going to be, as simple as that. Do you see anyone in Australia
(41:38):
coming from outside the group inbecause it was Khawaja, Constas,
Cam Green with the top three in the Caribbean.
Khawaja struggle for a while outside, got some runs in Sri
Lanka, Constas had a tough trip but it did nip all over the
place and Cam Green's obviously a fine player.
But three, do you see like a Manus coming back in at the top
(41:58):
three? He's he's a proven player.
Yeah, I do. At least I hope so, because you
know what you're going to get. You've got someone that's got a
lot of Test match experience nowand just that jolt being kicked
to the curb, so to speak, is probably done the world of good
for him to be able to reset a bit like what Junior was talking
about earlier about his own personal situation.
(42:19):
Sometimes that is what you need just to be able to, you know,
step up and grow in that environment.
So, you know, I, I'd imagine he'll come back in.
There's no question Constance has, you know, he, he's Got
Talent, but I don't think he's ready.
Regardless of how the conditionswere in the Caribbean, Khawaja,
(42:40):
you know, to me looks very much on the wane.
So we we could actually see a, you know, completely different
opening, you know, partnership, you know, something like a
weather or for instance, might come in, we might see Bancroft
come, you know, back for anotherchance or Marcus Harris, who's
had a, you know, bumper season over here for Lancashire.
You know, players like that, youknow, why wouldn't you go for
(43:02):
guys that have had an exposure to Test cricket, have been
kicked to the side for a period of time to come back and, you
know, give them the opportunity of an Ashes to prove a point?
No, I agree, because we're not going to get the Glenn McGraw 5
nil. Can we have the Sam Curran 5
now? Does that work?
Well, I could easily say it as aplayer, we'd love to stay at 5
nil England, but I think it's a big class.
(43:24):
Obviously haven't been involved in like the the test side and in
a while, but watching this summer, obviously your
broadcasting and stuff like thatwas was epic.
I think the way England are playing is it's kind of it's
exciting to watch and it's classto kind of, I think I watched
the the other day, I think even when they went off for the 35
runs, it was kind of like so many results possible and all
(43:45):
the sorry boys were batting was quite cool because there's a lot
of my mates in that side. So yeah, I've never really, you
guys are so experienced and I'venever really seen played in
Australia and Red Bull cricket. So yeah, I hope it's a great
series because I think the buildUPS already started with kind of
Warner came out with the the remarkable surfboard.
I've never, I've never. It's been.
Australia you tool. Pads we have.
(44:05):
We have surfboards, yeah. But you're back to surfboards.
Rolling waves, Yeah. No, that's the term that's been
been thrown around. Yeah.
So that's probably just a an Aussie sort of slang for the
front PED. Yeah, well thanks so much guys.
I really appreciate you coming on the pod and wish you all the
best with the Oval Invincibles in your target of the
(44:26):
unmentionable 3 peat.
Do you have half an eye on getting back into the England
team? I'd.
Love to get back and I watched that Test series this summer.
I was like, wow, how cool is that?
Like if you're a younger player now, I think it would be
everyone says, oh, they'll get afranchise with stuff like that
because I've experienced Test cricket, World Cup win in
Australia, stuff like that. That still burns strong inside
me because I've experienced it. Players, I think, choose
(00:23):
franchises for the wrong reasons, whether it be
financial, because ultimately everyone's, everyone's play for
their country. You know the Holy Grail is Test
cricket. There's a lot more, I think,
strategical tactics in the 100 than there probably is in the
T20 game because there's so manyunique things that people don't
know. What's that like bowling the the
temple? You don't want 10 at the death.
You don't want 10 at the death. Have you ever, as a coach,
(00:45):
walked out and gone? I've got absolutely nothing for
you. Hi, I'm Stuart Broad, without
Josh Butler you might have seen the news and we're sending a big
hug to my mate Jose and his family.
With 100 in full swing, we're joined by a pair of two time
champions, Oval Invincible star all rounder Sam Curran and their
(01:06):
coach Tom Moody. Right guys, let's go straight
into it. The Oval Invincible is hugely
successful. Women have won two titles.
You guys have gone back-to-back moods.
I'll start with you. Having both of you been there
from the start, is there anything you can put your finger
on that has made the Invinciblesso successful?
Certainly from the the men's point of view, one thing that we
tried to do right from the get go and it was pretty much a
(01:28):
directive from the ECB anyway. And that that is to try to pick
within your catchment. And you know, we we're we're
partnered with Kent County Cricket Club.
So with Surrey and Kent we've tried to not only with players
but with coaches as well, try tohave that continuity.
And I think that has been quite powerful at the beginning,
(01:48):
trying to maintain. That's been a challenge,
particularly when you do start to see some success.
But I think the players sort of see the positive side of being
involved in a core group. So I think that's probably the
number one reason. Yeah, Sammy, part of a
leadership group within this this franchise.
How have you found it like building team spirit?
(02:09):
Because if you're a Surrey player, you know a lot of those
guys, but there are guys that come in from different places.
Yeah, I think obviously I've worked with Moods and a couple
of other teams with the from thestart with the Invincibles as I
think they're like Mood said, they're kind of, we've kept it
quite a lot with the Surrey boyswho are there and obviously Bill
by being captain with that Ken side of things.
And then you add coaches like Matt Walker Trout who's at
(02:29):
Surrey Walks was at Kent when wefirst started, things like that.
So the familiarity of players and coaches has always been
there. And obviously like Mood said,
year by year it's quite hard to hold on to the everyone.
But even like this year we've got Jordan Clark who's had done
really well at Surrey. So it's another Surrey based
player who's done really well. I think it's just that kind of
even today we rock up to training and it's so natural and
(02:51):
familiar. You're sitting in the same spot
and kind of you have that banterof what guys arguing where
you're going to sit and you're kind of a side place.
So that's my locker mate, I can say.
My name's on it. There it is exactly.
So it's it's quite like it's gotthat nice feel to it and
everyone that comes in is kind of always there's doing me
wrong. I'm probably a little bit
biased, but Oval's such a great place to play 100 cricket, T20
(03:12):
cricket, anything. So we're pretty lucky in that
way. Yeah, how good are those new
change rooms as well, by the way?
Is it take you back right to thestart?
Moods you, the men and women, were there?
Were there certain things that the Invincible said?
We want to play our cricket likethis, We want to behave in
certain ways. Did you control that?
Did you control the mindset or did that come from sort of
above? I was pretty fortunate from a
(03:33):
men's standpoint that that I hadboth hands on the steering
wheel. Having had such a long
friendship with Alex Stewart, DOC at at Surrey, he trusted me
with everything. So when it come to recruitment
or anything around preparing forthe tournament or during
(03:55):
tournament, he'd just let me go.So that that makes things a lot
easier because you can then put your own stamp on it, your own
style on it without any sort of external interference.
And that can be one of the challenges with franchise
cricket because not only do you have your own style of playing
you, you also have your own style of the environment you
(04:16):
want to set, which reflects whatyou're like as a coach but also
reflects who's in the dressing room.
Because you know, if you've got a young group of players, your
style might be slightly different from a coaching
perspective. But we've got quite a mature
group that have played a lot of cricket around the world
internationally and it's just empowering that group.
(04:37):
And if you can keep that group together, that empowerment only
gets gets stronger. So, you know, I've been
fortunate to have the ability tobe able to pull those levers and
and create hopefully, you know, a positive environment.
Yeah. So Sammy, is there anything
specific you need to do for the 100 outside of T20?
Do you do you train slightly differently?
(04:58):
Is the lifestyle different or isit really similar to a normal
T20 franchise tournament? I think the, the best thing
about I guess the 100 for me is that it's AI played a lot around
the world and all these franchise comps, but as an
overseas player and now we've got our own franchise
tournaments playing as a local player things pretty.
It's not unique, but it's uniquefor us because we've never
experienced that in England. So I think the training and
(05:21):
stuff is very, very, very similar.
I think the the pattern of the game obviously different with
the 1010 ball kind of sets as you'd call them in five ball
sets and. What's that like bowling the 10
ball? Do you do decide on the spot?
It's like, I fancy this, I'm going for it.
Or is it a preset like I'm goingto bowl?
No, I think it's in the moment. Obviously with Bilbo's captain
behind the stumps. It's kind of even for example,
(05:42):
the other night where you got the best in the world and Rashid
Khan kind of batsman bit of turnnot really picking him.
So the worst nightmare if I'm batting there and you can't pick
someone, you're like, OK, get through to the end of the set.
But then you're like, oh God, hecan go again.
It's like you have to get off strike.
And that's why I think the hundreds stood out for me.
Is is in last year's final, we think the brave were about 70 to
(06:05):
win or 50 balls. And you thinking there in the
driving seat and then I think itwas, I can't remember exactly,
border grade 5 balls and then went again.
So yes. Exactly was the first game of
he. He sort of came.
In now came in towards the end 'cause he had had a few
injuries, but he came in at the end.
And that that's a good example because you know when you got a
bowler that's running hot, you just continue.
(06:27):
And you know as a former former now bowler that you know when
you in a real sweet spot with rhythm and there's movement,
everything is in your favor or it's a spinners point of view,
you press the button and go. But interesting enough,
statistically that second set hasn't really proven to be
fruitful. Oh really?
If you look at across the tournament, but in isolated
(06:49):
situations, you can make your own assessment internally to
whether it works for you and that there are moments.
We thought that's one of the reasons very early on we secured
Narine in that first very year, because with the rules you could
effectively bowl Narine 20 ballswithin the 1st 25 balls of the
game. So yeah, he bowls the 1st 10,
(07:10):
someone bowls 5 at the other end, and then he bowls five and
five. He's done.
You can then put him in the dugout.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, don't get me
wrong. It goes the other way though.
Someone's obviously you guys bowl at the bowl at the death.
It's like you don't intend at the death, you don't intend at
the. Death, but you have done that.
You have, but don't get me wrong, that's when you've got a
wicket and there's a new bat andyou say build back and sneak one
(07:31):
in. Here.
I think as well in England we play a lot with short side, long
side. So I think being quite smart
about that. If you got 10 to alongside,
that's when you can really squeeze the game and use the
boundary size. But I think it's extremely
unique and I think it's it makesthe games a little bit more
even. Like I said, last year's final,
I thought the brave were cruising and suddenly you get a
wicket, then another wicket, youlook up, it is about 70 or 40
(07:52):
balls and it's totally different.
So I I actually like the the sets like that, but it can go
the other way as well. It feels like it builds pressure
quite quickly because the game disappears.
You're right, the scoreboard just evaporates on you pretty
quickly. Do you find that when you're
batting that you're trying to get yourself in and have a feel
for it, but suddenly 3 dot ballsfeels feels like everyone's
(08:12):
staring at you to hit a boundary?
Yeah, I think it links to that. The sets of, you know, a guy can
go again if you're struggling. I think don't get wrong, 100
balls is still, we talk a lot about it as a batting group,
still a lot of balls. You've got guys like Jaxi at the
top who's so explosive. But what he's done so well for
us, he's actually taking the game fractionally deeper for us.
And we've got such power throughthe kind of back end of our of
(08:32):
our group. It's, it's, it's interesting
because you know, if you're three or three or four, three or
five, you're damn. And I'm a bit of pressure.
Yeah. But then if the guy goes again,
that's where you got to be smartof try get off strike because
the other guy might be facing him better.
So there's a lot more, I think, strategical tactics in the 100
than there probably is in the T20 game because there's so many
unique things that people don't know.
(08:53):
Do you find now we're into Season 5 and you've played all
of them, Do you find you've settled into those little tactic
tactical niches a little bit more now?
Yeah, I think especially like what Mood said, we've kept it
quite similar and continuous with our squad.
So for instance, we had Zamps last year as our leg spinner.
Now this year we've got Rashid Khan, so he's almost slipped
into Zamps as well. And then you've got Barrandoff,
(09:15):
he's come for Spencer Johnson. So like it's been quite, I went
big up moods in that way, but it's kind of like it's like
being very smart with how we've signed players in terms of I
guess like we turned up to training two days out from the
spirit game the other evening islike our roles are exactly the
same. We there's no like doubt of what
we're doing. And I think that does help.
Yeah. So did the Rashi Khan signing
(09:36):
come when you knew Adam Zampa couldn't come and you wanted
like for like? Because he's AI mean?
He's a hell of a signing to get hold of, yeah.
I look, to be honest with you, all of those in that sort of
Rashid Khan, Zamps Narayan, they're all in that real premium
specialist spinner knee should be, you know, you'd be
overwhelmed to have any of them.So yeah, look, you know, I knew
(09:58):
as part of our formula that we needed that sort of unique
spinning edge. And what it does, it balances
outside, but it also complementswhat we've got with our spin as
well. Because Nathan Souter, for
instance, who seems to fly underthe radar, but you only have to
look at his blast numbers, look at what he does, has done in the
(10:19):
100 over recent years. You know, he plays a significant
role for us as well in complementing that middle phase.
And quite often he's sort of left in the shade because you've
got a Narine or a Zamper or Russia Khan that always talked
about. But then you you turn to what
he's doing. He's doing a huge amount of
lifting. Yeah, Yes.
I want to just go into your sortof coaching career a little bit.
(10:42):
You've had you've had great success.
Is it going a little bit down the football route that you take
your own staff around with you to to different franchise
tournaments or every tournament you turn up to have you got a
different backroom staff? It's pretty pretty much
different for me. I think that potentially could
change over time, particularly if you are under, I suppose the
(11:04):
roof of one of these conglomerates that have multiple
franchises around the world. You might then be part of a, you
know, an off field team, if I could put it that way.
I don't mind the the change because, you know, from my
coaching point of view, if I've got, you know, whether it be a
player or a or a coach, if I've got a new voice with new ideas,
(11:25):
I welcome that, you know, because, you know, the day you
stop trying to evolve yourself and learning about what's
actually happening on the ground, you don't become as
relevant. You know, I think it's really
important to listen to people like junior or younger players
or even senior players or coaches just to get their
thoughts. It doesn't mean you have to take
that path every single time, butit's important you keep a very
(11:48):
open mind. Yeah, Junior with your your sort
of T20 queer how it's, you're obviously a brilliant new ball
bowler. You've got great talent with the
bat sometimes. You've been in different roles
at different times, haven't you?Where do you see your best role
with both ball and bat? I do think it's naturally
changed. There's no question my last
three or four years, you can seemy my roles in teams, especially
(12:09):
the 100 and kind of for Surrey and probably batting in that top
five. And I do feel very adaptable
with the ball. So I think that's one of my
strengths. And I guess it's just trying to
being an all rounder, you want to contribute at all times.
But I think sometimes as an all rounder you can always you can
fill holes in teams and in termsof which is great.
But at the same time, I think sides that I've done my best is
(12:31):
probably getting the best out ofmy batting fractionally higher
up the order and kind of using that adaptability with the ball.
Business of cricket is powered by sage, the official accounting
software partner of the 100. This summer, Sage will champion
small businesses across the nation and we're excited to work
with them to shine a light on the amazing entrepreneurs from
(12:51):
the world of cricket. To find out how you can grow
your small business with AI enabled tools like sage copilot,
visit sage.com tell us what you do and how it all started.
So I'm Chris Page and I run and work for Elite back refurbs.
Basically we look after a lot ofpros bats and club cricketers
bats. When I was at university that
was probably the pinnacle of my cricket career.
(13:13):
I was playing for Rotherham in the Yorkshire League so we had
players like Gary Balan's Oliverand Dolby Joe Rue bestow.
I used to DJ at the time as wellin Sheffield so I'd often see
Joe knocking about the town centre and yes sparked up a bit
of a friendship. How did you develop this into a
business? So my first job was about 5 of
(13:34):
Joe's bats and one of Moe's justbefore the Manchester test of
the Ashes. So you know, no pressure from
Joe, He passed my number on to salty.
So Phil Salt started using me just before the Island test.
I've got a mate who works with Freddie for the 100.
So obviously when the 100 was happening last year I got a few
(13:54):
lads from Northern Superchargersusing me.
So this is Ollie Pope's number one bat.
Picked it up from the Oval this morning.
That's binding across the bottomwhich basically now the bats are
so big compared to how they usedto be.
The they're under pressed, so they're not.
If you look at a cricket bat from years ago, they're probably
about this thin. They'll last you a lifetime more
(14:15):
than a seed oil than wood. Whereas these are quite big,
really light under pressed. They crack a lot.
When these guys find one that they really like, they like to
keep hold of it and maintain it and and make sure it doesn't
break. There's so many challenges
running a small business. What challenges have you faced?
Just the inconsistency. So you know, they're just so
busy. County cricket, the 100,
international cricket, so it's good, but they all just seem to
(14:37):
come at once or they want six ofthe bats doing and then you
might not see them again for four or five months.
So just know you're worth, make sure you've got a product that
you know is going to bring in a certain income and what that's
worth. When you come into these these
different tournaments around theworld, do you have half an eye
on getting back into the Englandteam?
(14:59):
Because you're right, you get different roles in in franchise
cricket, which then maybe cloudsthe judgement of the England
management of like I see some current doing exactly that.
Do you have chats with Brendan McCallum of where you want to
get back into the team, where you see your role being guy?
Must say from my point of view, when it came to Test side, I
loved you being in my team because you had this amazing
(15:20):
ability to pick big moments in games, whether it was with
Battle Boy, you'd come on, knockoff peg out the ground when
nothing was happening. You know, it's, I think that's a
big trait for international cricketers that you want the
pressure, you sort of rise to the pressure.
So there's, you know, you've still got a huge amount of
cricket ahead of you, but where do you see yourself in that
(15:40):
international scene? Yeah.
I think it's obviously probably this is the first time my career
probably since I started. I think I look back because I've
had a bit of time to reflect on where I'm at, has had seven
years, flew out the blocks in terms of playing for England,
playing for Surrey, franchise tournaments, all this kind of
stuff. And this is probably the only
time I found myself at the at the squads.
(16:01):
And I don't think it's I've had chats with McConnell.
I went for breakfast with him a few start of the summer, just
had conversations about where where he sees me and I won't go
into those details. But it's more I know, I know on
my side of things. I'll get back in.
It's just kind of I'm sorry, I'mactually really happy with how
the the summer's gone in terms of I got back to Surrey.
(16:22):
He even said it's not the worst thing to slow down in terms of
have a few months out and kind of come back strong, work hard
and it's interesting. Now I sit back turn up to the
over today I've got hunting 100 trophy hunting the championship
with Surrey, hunting the blast for Surrey tension of three
trophies there. So which is great for me.
Great. I'm I'm really ambitious for
trophies. I think guys get not judged on
(16:45):
their trophies, but I think it'sa good indication of where
you're playing in successful teams you've got to win things.
I'm a massive believer in that bit.
In terms of England stuff, I'd love to get back and I watched
that Test series this summer. I was like, wow, how cool is
that? Like I think it probably if
you're a younger player now, I think it would be everyone says,
oh, they've got a franchise withstuff like that because I've
experienced Test cricket, World Cup win in Australia, stuff like
(17:08):
that. That still burns strong inside
me because I've experienced it and I'm I'm, I'm a pretty
relaxed guy and very competitiveon the field.
But I do see the bigger picture and like you said, I've got a
lot of time left. So our fingers crossed it'll be
not too long. You talk about slowing down.
It's an interesting point because really you could play
cricket every month of the year with franchise tournaments all
(17:29):
around the world. Do you, do you have to sort of
pick and choose a little bit which you think will suit you,
your development or do you just go, do you know, I'm going to
play as much as I can and, and you know, develop as a player
that way? It's a good question.
I think when you when you're playing with England, I think
it's you just purely focused on your England stuff and you're
(17:50):
like, Brad, I've got the ODI tour coming up, T20 tour there,
Test tour there and that's how you plan your year.
But probably this last six months when I've been on the
outside, I've probably been a bit more strategical about where
I've chosen in terms of, I guesswhen I got left out of the
England side, I, I actually wentto the desert Vipers where moods
is moods is in charge there about and I was flat.
(18:10):
I had a chat with moods before Iwas pretty flat.
Like kind of my ambitions, like I thought I'd probably be on
those tours to India. And then I went there at the
greatest time, played really well and we got to a final and
all the coaches there knew my game and knew how I get the best
out of me. So I thought that was a great
plan to go to there and then finish that went to the IPL.
Now I've come back played for Surrey.
(18:31):
And so you plan your I think I'ma big believer.
The tournaments you can choose to go to, it's got to be right
for your cricket in terms especially where I'm at now,
it's kind of there's so many opportunities, but I think it's
you've also got to realize that you could go to all these
tournaments, but like you said, I have a lot of time left.
But some guys don't have the choice to go to different
tournaments and they'll go at everything.
(18:51):
But I think where I'm out of my career, I just want to try and
go to places where people know me and get the best out of me.
In terms of sometimes you can goto a random tournament and bat
at 8 and do some average bowlingand you get through it.
It's fine. But I think at the end, I always
kind of look at like this might sound silly, but like Bravo and
Pollard have like a little joke who's got the most trophies and
(19:12):
like kind of they have this bit of banter between them and I
want to be that guy. And when I'm 3839.
Winding Tom up. Winding TC up and or somewhere
like that going listen man, I'vewon 25 trophies like where you
kind of at? And I think so many different
players are so different in their ambitions in terms of some
guy's love. They want to be the leading run
(19:34):
scorer of the 100 or I'd like literally we've we had a team
talk at the Invincibles the other day and the whole thing's
about we're going for the third trophy.
It's all about that. Like the other night, it's all
about one goal. And I think that's very
important in franchise cricket where it can sometimes be.
The other way, no, I agree with that just.
Just a point you, you raised junior around that players in
(19:54):
franchise cricket, that's one ofthe biggest challenges for
players today. And I see sort of as a person on
the outside as a coach or ADOC is that players I think choose
franchises for the wrong reasons, whether it be financial
or just what whatever their reasons are without sort of
(20:16):
strategically thinking about their own growth as a player.
And they're the same players what they were the year before
or five years before that. So I think you know from a young
player's point of view that theyshould be making their decisions
based on how they're going to continue to evolve and develop
because ultimately everyone's, everyone wants to play for their
country. You know, the Holy Grail is Test
(20:36):
cricket. To be able to play Test cricket
for your country is something unique, which both you guys know
also playing in World Cups is also very unique.
So both those white bull World Cups, that should be your focus.
You're only going to get those opportunities if you continue to
grow and a lot of players go in and come out exactly the same as
what they were. I think from your point of view,
(20:59):
moods like when you start a tournament, you might get four
or five days before the tournament to get all these
different players coming together.
Some have been playing cricket, some might be a bit tired, some
are in form, some are out of form because you'll have signed
them six months ago. Do you see yourself very much as
a manager where you're getting people together, you're growing
what you're playing for, rather than someone who's just giving
(21:20):
throw downs and trying to help? Technically the. 100 percent,
100% To me, franchise cricket, it is about building an
environment where players can feel they can express themselves
without sort of being judged. Yeah, it's hard enough game as
it is, particularly the shorter format of the game because your
errors are very much exposed. In Test cricket, you bowl about
(21:43):
over and you come back and take two in the next over.
In T20 cricket or in 100 cricket, you bowl about over
that you only bowl one over for the game, particularly if you've
got depth in your bowling. So you're really exposed.
So, you know, I just think that's so important.
Change is coming next year, isn't it?
We've had investors from all over the world, including CEOs
(22:03):
of of Google and YouTube. How do you think that is going
to change how the tournament's run, how it's all shaped up?
Or do you think actually it won't change your job at all?
I think, I think it's going to change depending on which
environment you're in. Some environments you find that
(22:25):
ownership sort of try to, you know, nearly take over and take
they're both hands on the steering wheel using analogy I
used before, but it, you know, and it becomes nearly
micromanaged and it's very difficult to create.
Like what we've talked about at the Oval.
When you have that situation, you always hear the cliche of,
(22:46):
oh, we try to have a family environment, all those.
Well, to create that family environment, you can't have many
fathers. You know, you've got to try to
have one clear direction to create culture.
And as we know with culture, it's getting the right people to
create that. It's not, it's not just a, you
know, it's a word that's thrown around a lot, but you, you've
(23:06):
got to have the personnel to do that, which is really important.
I agree. And the playing side, the 100 we
all know was created to bring new fans to the game, get more
eyeballs on cricket. But as a player, are you aware
that it's an entertainment industry or are you just OK,
this is cricket, I'm here to deliver my skill.
(23:27):
I think with the 100, I've definitely noticed more like
kids in the crowd in terms of I guess the way it's been planned
and it's alongside the the holidays period and great
weather and stuff like that. I think that's hugely, it's
amazing to kind of play games when there's like I remember
myself as a kid watching maybe not T20 and Test cricket, stuff
like that. You look up to these guys and
you want to be those guys who ofcourse you want to entertain and
(23:49):
stuff like that and win. But I'm all of that's my
ambition, like I just said, was you want to win and you want to,
yes, you're entertaining by winning.
But I think the 100's been greatfor for I think the players in
England and stuff like that. Because obviously, like you
said, there's been doing a wrongloads of private investment.
The tournament's only going to get bigger and stronger and
better. So I think it's exciting as a
(24:11):
player because I feel we've got a big part to play and that keep
the tournament going, keep the quality of cricket high and try
and inspire the next generation of people who want to play
cricket. So I think it's an exciting
time. But yeah, like you said, there's
definitely a lot of change coming.
What are his great strengths do?You want to leave the room?
We won't be able to get him out.He's got to be that big.
(24:35):
Yeah, obviously a multi skilled player which which we all, which
we all know and we see on display what I see sort of, I
suppose the public don't see is,is a natural leader, you know,
someone that's a big character in the in the dressing room.
So, you know, touching on that culture piece, you've got to
(24:55):
have people like Junior around to be, to be able to stick that
together, to stitch it together in a dressing room.
And you need more than one, obviously.
So, you know, to me, that leadership, that sort of that
that character that helps build that culture is absolutely
critical. So the cricketer, you know, he's
got enormous upside and enormousstrengths.
(25:16):
And I think his journey is just starting.
And you know, on the on the other side, which is a really
important piece in any dressing room, whether it's a franchise
dressing room or not, is that sort of leadership who?
Have you learnt from SO as a coach?
Obviously you had great success as a player when you got on this
coaching journey. People sort of dip in and out of
(25:36):
different environments to to gather their own thoughts and
knowledge of. Can you sort of remember a time
we thought, you know what, that's the direction I want to
go in. Well, I, I, when I, when I
retired all those years back 2000 I think it was, I had no
intentions to get back into the game.
I was working for a constructioncompany and you know, back then
(25:57):
you sort of you had part time job and and you were playing
cricket as well. So I was going down that path
and it wasn't until probably a year, a year and a half into
that journey post retirement, I got a call out of the blue to
get involved in coaching. First it was with Middlesex
called me and then a week later Worcester called me with a
pretty similar sort of, you know, offer of coming in as DOC
(26:20):
head coach and that was when theadrenaline started to pump again
and I never, ever thought that would happen.
It and the game back then, therewasn't as many opportunities,
whether it be in the commentary box or whether it be in the
coaching dugout. It's completely different now.
There's many, many jobs because there's so many different
platforms. So I then sort of learnt I
(26:41):
didn't have a coaching card at that point, you know, any level
of coaching. So I then threw the ECB when I
came over and took over at Worcester, did all my coaching
accreditations. And I've just found learning
from everyone is really important throughout the whole
journey. And as I touched on earlier, you
(27:02):
know, even today, I think, you know, it's really important to
keep an open mind to learn from people around you.
And I'm a different coach today than I was 20 years ago or five
years ago. And I think that's really
important to continue to evolve and be your authentic self.
You know, there's no point looking at another coach that's
really successful and thinking, oh, I'm going to do that.
(27:24):
I'm going to, you know, go down that path.
That's perfect. That's, you know, really
successful for him because that's not your identity.
That's not, you know, your authentic best.
So I think, yes, look at that, learn from that and maybe apply
it in your way. That's probably the biggest
lesson I've learned. Because you've talked about
building a culture environment about local players, whether
(27:45):
it's Surrey can that also bringsin the guys living around that
area and and going home. Whereas a lot of franchises
you'll get into the hotel and you're all together.
How do you manage that? How do you throw out a
tournament? Keep the guys close, keep them
talking, keep them spending timetogether.
I think first and foremost that's an advantage that we have
(28:06):
with having those local players is that I think it's important
if there's an opportunity for them to sleep in their own bed,
be around family or what what what's important to them outside
of cricket. I think it's really important to
for them to be able to reset andrecharge.
There's obviously players that don't have that advantage and
you've got to go the hotel route, but it's accepting that
(28:27):
for one and thinking of that as an advantage against a
disadvantage. And secondly, because there's a
familiarity. Once people hit that dressing
room together, if training's at 1:00 and people are in that
rooms at 12:30, you wouldn't have known whether someone slept
in a hotel or not because the connection is immediate.
(28:48):
And that's because the familiarity that's around the
group. It might be slightly different
if you had constant change and arevolving door with your squad
and with your coaching staff, but we haven't gone down that
path because we've sort of believed in another another
route, so I think that helps us massively.
From a player's point of view, Sammy, how do you get guys maybe
(29:11):
debuting or coming into the group feeling like how you would
feel about that badge on your shirt, the Oval, invisible,
You've been there from the start, You care deeply about the
Oval, the cricket ground. How do you get those players
just to connect to to what it's like playing for for this group?
Or actually, do you not need to?No, I think it's very important.
I think we've had a little kind of way of like you said, we only
(29:34):
joined up four days before the tournament.
So it's quite a quick kind of wefinished a four day game on the
Friday and we got to get on the Saturday and we had like a we've
had a team dinner before every, every year and.
Our moods is card or it's. Actually.
Bouncing down the road. No, we kind of like mixed it
round and made jokes about the captain's bonus and guys who are
(29:57):
getting paid the most and all this kind of stuff.
So the boys have been really good on that side of things.
But it was a funny one actually is about 3 days out.
We've had like a little social committee, organized little team
events and stuff. And about four weeks out, Saki
kind of put on the group saying,why don't we book this place for
the, for the team dinner. And we've gone to the, we've
gone to the same restaurant 2 years in a row and we've won two
(30:19):
trophies. And myself and Towanda Mouye,
who are kind of on the Social Committee at the moment, is kind
of. You put yourself on the social.
Yeah, just because you're no thelocal.
No, the local knowledge was. Placed there.
But and then me and Towanda, we just shut them down straight
away, said we're going straight back.
So we've been to the same restaurant three years in a row,
hoping for the, we won't mentionit, but hoping for the, the
(30:41):
third, the third trophy, which Iactually going back to cricket
in a way I do. I think this year is going to be
the hardest year. I think it's going to be a, the
teams look a lot more even and people know the the format, but
and going back to the, the culture of our side, I think we
do a little initiation. So guys kind of who come in kind
of talk us through what what it means to play for the
(31:03):
Invincible. Stuff like small little things
like that, which I think can kind of break the ice in terms
of just getting into an environment so quick when it's
three days out. That, that that's done in a very
informal way. Yeah.
So it's not like, you know, I want you to go away and prepare
something. And, you know, it's just done in
a very fun way. Some people get up, stand on a
chair and make a joke of it, andothers take it a bit more
(31:24):
seriously, you know, so it's just very organically, really.
Do you have anything up in the changing room, sort of like
messages or or things that you try and repeat with your
mindset? So if I link back to the Test
match side, nothing's up in the change room, but Brendan
McConnell will always be going run towards the danger talking
in that moving forward, move thegame forward.
Is there language that you guys sort of connect to all the time?
(31:47):
Once there is any like signs or anything, I think there's
obviously messaging and little team talks that we have on the
field and stuff. I think in the 100, the time
think of examples, the timing ofof the sets is so tight.
Like the other night we got we got penalized for being a little
bit slow. It's kind of things like that.
I think good teams avoid becausethey know where they're fielding
(32:07):
so well. It's kind of like can we mark we
can kind of same areas of the ground less movement, stuff like
that. I don't I think it does help.
I go back to the continuity of the players that we've had and
coaches. It's like the messaging's been
the same every single year and it's that consistency and
players don't really doubt. The tactical time out that's
seen throughout, but it's in the100.
(32:28):
Have you ever, as a coach, walked out and gone?
I've got absolutely nothing for you.
I often think that when I'm thinking.
That true? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think yes, it's a good
question and the answer is yes. Therefore you don't say anything
for the sake of saying something.
And you just may go around to a few individuals and certainly
(32:50):
speak to your captain every single time.
But there's other times that it's quite critical.
And the point that Junior brought up in the final last
year, for instance, when Saki bowled that second set, that was
between a tactical timeout and Bilbo and I were talking about
and I said, you know, run with Saki go again, because Pollard
was the key wicket at that point.
(33:11):
And I just felt in our team, alldue respect, Junior Saki, where
he was at that point was the most likely person to get him
out. And to me that was a critical
point because he was tossing up.And it's a difficult thing with
the captain is that, you know, it's very subjective, isn't it?
You you might think that's a better option versus that.
But if you've got a an outside view, which I was giving Bilbo
(33:34):
at that point, sometimes you need that clarity.
Do you think coaching will go more interactive?
I know you'll go out on a time out, but do you think you'll
ever get to the stage where you know Formula One, the drivers,
chatting to the say coach or your position all the time?
Do you think it will ever get into the stage where there'll be
constant communication? We saw the late Bob Warmer do
that or try to do that in the 99World Cup here in England with
(33:58):
Hansi Crenier and that was shut down very quickly by the ICCI.
Don't know whether we'll get themic up situation, but I think
we're starting to see the analytics of the game becoming
more and more valuable. And I think cricket is a sport
that there are sort of more opportunities for set plays, you
know, certain situations around fields or bowlers or, or batting
(34:22):
moments. And I think that it's really
important if you can get that advantage, that 5% advantage on
an opponent, why wouldn't you take it?
Because, you know, games are wonby off the last ball, one by one
run, you know, all those type ofthings in there that can make
the difference to, you know, push the boundary in your
favour. When you've Captain Sammy, do
you go on the fields, OK, I've got 100 balls or 20 overs,
(34:47):
you're bowling there, you're bowling there.
Or do you try and go out really fluid and just sort of go with
the flow? I think in a way linking to the
Oval, I think we're quite lucky with the surfaces we play on in
terms of strategic. I always find at the Oval we've
always had a good wicket. So it's kind of you have no
doubts in your mind really, is it going to turn?
Is it not? So I think I've when I've
(35:09):
captained a very much go my gut feel a lot of the time, like you
generally know your first 4-5 overs in the power play, but
then once you've read the surface, maybe you got a couple
of wickets, you kind of go with your your gut instinct.
But I think it helps having a lot of leaders around you like
like we a little leadership teamand most teams that I play and
it's kind of like you can bounceoff ideas like this team,
(35:29):
Bilbo's behind the stump, so he can't always chat to the bowler.
So it's like myself, Jack C kindof field and situation positions
where you can kind of just if you see anything and I linking
back to the the coaching side ofthings.
I actually, I think it's quite an interesting obviously look in
the IPL, some like Ashish Nehra's on the boundary, like
really involved. Obviously there's levels to it.
But I do think if I think peoplesee the game differently from
(35:52):
outside the pitch, which like Mood said, they could be the
tiniest thing that they see thatas a captain you might not be
able to see. So and then if you don't tell
them and then the game's over, then say the coach gets annoyed
or something. I think why not say something
like, you seeing it maybe, like,I know Morgues when Morgues is
Captain England. He had those, like, little signs
(36:13):
and obviously playing with Morgues and no one knew what
they were. But he did.
So which I thought was quite a cool, like, initiative, like,
because there's nothing worse. If you think your name doesn't
come up, you're like, morgues doesn't want me to bowl.
Yeah, like no one knew what. Sam Curry.
No. No.
No, like no one knew. I certainly maybe other players
did, but when those things came up I was like, those could mean
(36:35):
anything. So Sammy, you're always evolving
as a player in the hundreds so far I've noticed this little, I
want to call it the moon ball, but it's been quoted as the
slower, slower, slower ball. Where's that come from?
And sort of why have you added it to your armoury?
Yeah, it's got a lot of tracks in the last few days, which is
not concerning, but I guess. So it goes from 80, I'll build
(36:56):
you up at 83 miles an hour to 47.
Even 43 came up on our Speedo. That's slow.
Yeah. I think probably five years ago
during COVID, we had a IPLI played with Bravo Chennai and he
was obviously master of that kind of dipper like the one that
goes up and he's very over the top and quick action, whereas
(37:17):
I've got quite a quick action, but probably a little bit more
slingy and not being that expressed pace.
I kind of obviously I've always backed my slow balls back of the
hands yorkers stuff I had. I kind of, but like you said,
you want to evolve as a bowler because guys are constantly
developing. Batters can hit for hours.
Bowlers naturally you don't bowlfor hours.
You kind of do your stuff and move on.
But I think it's something I've just added because I when I face
(37:40):
someone who's say a 145 bowler and he bowls his slow ball at
1:20, that's like a 25 mile an hour difference like in
kilometers, sorry, in terms of so you actually feel the slower
ball, like you actually get doneby the the speed.
Whereas I found over the years, my slow balls probably only been
about 10K slower. And guys were, if there's
nothing in the surface, there's probably not huge amounts of
(38:03):
like deception. I don't like I said, like we
laugh about it now, but come it does get hit, don't get me
wrong, but it's more just I feelif a batsman knows I can do
something a little bit unique. It's like when you face a
mystery spinner, you might not, they got a little bit more
doubt. Whereas I feel you have to be
creative. Guys are developing so fast, so
you got to pick your guys. You do it too.
Because I do feel there's guys who pick up slow balls better
(38:25):
than other players. So you got to be smart when to
use it. But if they know you can do that
and there's some sort of deception, it's I feel like I
can add value to it. And people laugh, oh, it's
really slow. But at the same time it's no.
I played with Mitch Stantner recently with Surrey.
He's a spinner, but he bowls a slow, slow one.
And they you do guys. He said he just doing guys for
(38:45):
if his is slow. You think about it, someone just
under arms your ball, they have to create all the power.
But so it's more the deception. I think it's the main point is
your arm speed's got to be the same.
But yeah, I guess don't get me wrong, I'm a bit nervous talking
about it because someone's goingto go bang, but.
But just for kids, how long did it take you to feel comfortable
to bowl that in top level sport?Yeah, it's taking a long time.
(39:09):
I think naturally my slow ball is always like a natural quick,
normal slow ball. But I think I've worked so hard
and trying to keep the arm speedthe same and then you're just
trying to like it's more landing.
I feel like I've got better at landing the right length.
I think you can naturally ball as slow as you want, but it's
the controlling of length. I think it's quite important.
It takes, it's taking a long time and doing it wrong.
It's not the it's not the finished piece, but more
(39:32):
confident to bowl it and say 100game.
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(39:52):
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(40:34):
Well I can't let you guys leave without talking.
Ashes coming this winter obviously.
Got an Aussie in the room and anEnglishman Moody.
Got any sort of predictions or mindset on it?
How do you think the Aussies aretracking?
I won't give you a Glen McGrath prediction.
He normally just goes 5 nil, 5 nil.
Yeah, that was when he was becoming a not.
(40:55):
Playing. Yeah, he's not playing alongside
Shane Warne and Ricky Ponting. I think it's going to be really
close. There's no question that England
have struggled when they've comeDown Under.
I think that's more from a bowling standpoint and it'll be
interesting to get your thoughtson why that is.
But I think just adapting to Australian conditions, the ball
(41:15):
itself is a big shift a lot froma lot of English bowlers, fast
bowlers. I think with Australia's
uncertainty with their top order, that has I brought the
two teams closer together with regards to what the outcome is
going to be, as simple as that. Do you see anyone in Australia
(41:38):
coming from outside the group inbecause it was Khawaja, Constas,
Cam Green with the top three in the Caribbean.
Khawaja struggle for a while outside, got some runs in Sri
Lanka, Constas had a tough trip but it did nip all over the
place and Cam Green's obviously a fine player.
But three, do you see like a Manus coming back in at the top
(41:58):
three? He's he's a proven player.
Yeah, I do. At least I hope so, because you
know what you're going to get. You've got someone that's got a
lot of Test match experience nowand just that jolt being kicked
to the curb, so to speak, is probably done the world of good
for him to be able to reset a bit like what Junior was talking
about earlier about his own personal situation.
(42:19):
Sometimes that is what you need just to be able to, you know,
step up and grow in that environment.
So, you know, I, I'd imagine he'll come back in.
There's no question Constance has, you know, he, he's Got
Talent, but I don't think he's ready.
Regardless of how the conditionswere in the Caribbean, Khawaja,
(42:40):
you know, to me looks very much on the wane.
So we we could actually see a, you know, completely different
opening, you know, partnership, you know, something like a
weather or for instance, might come in, we might see Bancroft
come, you know, back for anotherchance or Marcus Harris, who's
had a, you know, bumper season over here for Lancashire.
You know, players like that, youknow, why wouldn't you go for
(43:02):
guys that have had an exposure to Test cricket, have been
kicked to the side for a period of time to come back and, you
know, give them the opportunity of an Ashes to prove a point?
No, I agree, because we're not going to get the Glenn McGraw 5
nil. Can we have the Sam Curran 5
now? Does that work?
Well, I could easily say it as aplayer, we'd love to stay at 5
nil England, but I think it's a big class.
(43:24):
Obviously haven't been involved in like the the test side and in
a while, but watching this summer, obviously your
broadcasting and stuff like thatwas was epic.
I think the way England are playing is it's kind of it's
exciting to watch and it's classto kind of, I think I watched
the the other day, I think even when they went off for the 35
runs, it was kind of like so many results possible and all
(43:45):
the sorry boys were batting was quite cool because there's a lot
of my mates in that side. So yeah, I've never really, you
guys are so experienced and I'venever really seen played in
Australia and Red Bull cricket. So yeah, I hope it's a great
series because I think the buildUPS already started with kind of
Warner came out with the the remarkable surfboard.
I've never, I've never. It's been.
Australia you tool. Pads we have.
(44:05):
We have surfboards, yeah. But you're back to surfboards.
Rolling waves, Yeah. No, that's the term that's been
been thrown around. Yeah.
So that's probably just a an Aussie sort of slang for the
front PED. Yeah, well thanks so much guys.
I really appreciate you coming on the pod and wish you all the
best with the Oval Invincibles in your target of the
(44:26):
unmentionable 3 peat.
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