August 25, 2025 ⢠52 mins
Justin Langer, the legendary former Aussie batter and coach, sounds off like youâve never heard him before.
He tells Jos and Broady about taking over Australia after Sandpapergate, getting coaching tips from Sir Alex Ferguson during the 2019 Ashes and drinking whisky in bed after the Ben Stokes miracle innings at Headingley.
We hear stories from the incredible 2005 Ashes series, his infamous bin-kicking outburst in the Amazon fly-on-the-wall documentary âThe Testâ and his county career at Somerset, when he captained a young Jos Buttler.
Langer also gives his thoughts on the upcoming Ashes series down under and insists England must play âBazballâ to stand a chance of winning.
This episode is brought to you by Sage, the Official Accounting Software Partner of The Hundred & Laithwaites, the Official Wine Partner of For The Love of Cricket.
Buy the âFor The Love of Cricketâ Wine Case by Laithwaites, handpicked by Stuart & Jos: â https://www.laithwaites.co.uk/product/X15614 â
Ask Broady and Jos a question: â https://qHarKG.short.gy/askFTLOC â
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
One thing you don't do in Australia?
Don't cheat. And the boys cheated.
I wasn't going to bring it up actually Stokes his innings in
2019, but as you mentioned it, we'll have a little chat about.
It we did this documentary called The Test Holy.
I reckon 1 billion Indians have watched the documentary.
There's one scene you cannot putin.
You've got to cut out. I was going to say for all that
you've achieved in your career and, and everyone knows you've
(00:21):
been now kicking a bin in at Amazon dot.
Yeah, that's right. But did kick the Bin Hamerson
ball, the first ball of that series, and it flew past my
nose. Everyone was walking towards me
as if to say what's on here. Call it Baz Ball or the
aggressive approach. I think England must play that
approach in Australia. Joining on the seven commentary
team. How do I survive as a pomp?
(00:42):
Oh. Especially you, Brody.
I've faced them all. Wazi Mackram.
Show him actor and you get out to Jack.
I'm Stuart Broad, He's Josh Butler and he is Justin Lang, a
(01:02):
legendary Australian batter and now very successful coach.
Jail, thanks for joining us. How's London treating you?
Must feel like a second home after your time with Middlesex
there. Oh, it has brought it.
And Josh, thanks for having me on.
It's been awesome. I've loved the tournament, for
one. I think it's mass.
I mean it's been great for the last four years.
I think there's also massive room for growth with the 100
(01:25):
tournament. It's been brilliant.
But London, like you say, I've been coming.
I came here when I was 18 years old and played for the Old Mill
Hillians Cricket Club and I've sort of it's, it's literally
north North London has been a second home since I was 18.
So it's great to be here. Three years at Middlesex and and
Lords, I'm going to literally sound like a cricket tragic
(01:48):
here, but Lords I would nearly say is my favorite place on
earth, really. So, yeah.
So to have played three years now to be back here, it's a it's
a great thrill and I'm loving every minute of it.
Jail, just as a sort of coach, you come into the the spirit
this year. How do you you know, like I
said, it's a quick and frantic tournament.
I'm sure you only had a few days.
(02:10):
When you turn up, how do you as a coach come in and create an
atmosphere? Or what are your sort of key
principles when you're coaching to come into a franchise world?
Yeah, it's really interesting Josh, because I arrived in
London on the Thursday, the boyswere still playing county
cricket. The Test match, which we've got
(02:30):
to all say was one of the all time great Test series and and I
actually flagged that months agothat we have Ollie Pope and
Jamie Smith. As it turned out, Liam Dawson
and Jamie Overton were involved in the last two Test matches.
But after such a tough series and we've all we've all played
(02:51):
in the mentally, they're going to be exhausted, right?
So they were played, they finished the day before I
arrived in the Thursday. I met all the players on the
Saturday for the first time and the first taste of 100 cricket
and we played on the Monday. So it is difficult.
I was actually asked that question in the job interview by
(03:12):
it might have been Owen Morgan actually tell us about culture.
And I said, well, actually in the 100 and IPL is a bit
different because you have a more extended period and you're
sort of talking and involved in it for most of the year in one
way or the other. But they asked what's culture
and I think they might have beenexpecting me to go on with some
(03:34):
of the the cliched stuff that people try say, well, culture in
the 100 is winning because that's what it comes down to.
Where there was this old footy coach and voted as the number
one AFL player of all time. His name's Lee Matthews and he's
just like a legend of AFL footy,won four premierships, a great
(03:58):
player. And I remember I first started
coaching Chance and he said, I'll tell you what coaching is,
boys. And we're in it.
There's about six of us new coaches.
We're all starry eyed, you know,trying to learn about coaching.
I'll tell you what bloody coaching is.
And they all talk about this thing called culture.
I'll tell you what culture is. Culture's winning.
(04:19):
And we go, I said, Oh no, I can't because yeah, it's all
about winning, 'cause if you're winning, the board's happy, the
media's happy, the players are happy, the coaches are happy.
If the coaches are happy and theplayers are happy, the misses
are happy, then everyone's happy.
So just win. And you still believe?
That now obviously it's not all about that, right, But because
you gotta create an environment to ensure that you're winning
(04:40):
and pick the players that you'resure that they're winning.
But ultimately that's what it comes down to because we all
know this is right. If you're winning, oh, you got a
great culture in the team. If you're losing, that's oh, you
got such a bad culture in the team.
So, you know, so when it came tocreating environment, you pick
the right people and I always say they are they good players,
are they good blokes? And at London Spirit we were,
(05:02):
you know, Kane Williamson's the captain got some really good
people, and then you get to work.
Do you have to balance your style differently between
franchise? You're extremely successful with
Australia, You took over 2018 after the sort of Sam paper gay
you. You had a huge responsibility on
dragging that sort of team out of a a very tough period, which
(05:22):
from the outside looked like youdid purely on culture really end
up retaining the Ashes 2019 one in 2122 in record time 1AT20
World Cup. Was that based more on like the
mindset, the culture, dragging the team close to the supporters
once again? Yeah, no doubt there was.
(05:43):
I think if I look back on my coaching career, I started as an
assistant coach or batting coachand then I I coached WA and the
Scorchers in Australia and it was almost my dream job.
Because the thing about coaching, if you want to do it,
you've got to go away a lot because if you coach
internationally you're obviouslyaway most of the year if there's
(06:05):
very few dream jobs. And that was my dream job
because I was in WA and coachingall W Australian cricket and
coaching in the Big Bash. And that's all about you 'cause
you have the guys 12 months of the year.
And I loved every minute of thatbecause you can really develop
something. And we have to say that's been
(06:26):
sustained for the last 10 years.So Adam Voges was my captain
there and then he went straight to being the head coach.
I said just make him head. He's never been a coach before.
I said don't worry, we've got a great system, great culture and
he's nailed it. It's been brilliant.
Then you go to the Australian team internationally and the
difference there. So I go back to that.
(06:46):
I was very lucky because when I took over there, Australian
cricket W Australia was in a crisis mode as well, right?
There were, there'd been a few things going on and they that
needed some sorting out. So I did that apprenticeship and
then of course Sandpaper Gate happened and that was like whoa.
But I would not be talking to you 2 right now.
(07:08):
If I hadn't had, I'd be dead by now.
I would literally have had a heart attack and died of stress
by now. But luckily I had seven years
apprenticeship doing the West Australian job, going to
Sandpipergate and then of courseCOVID hit.
So we had Sandpipergate where all of Australia, Australia,
they hated the cricket team because Australia believe that
(07:32):
you guys are we're convicts and all that sort of shit.
I hear from the Barmy Army, but but one thing you don't do in
Australia, you don't cheat. You play hard and you go hard
and you compete, but you don't cheat.
And the boys cheated, right? So and the whole of Australia
really turned against them and the ramifications were huge.
We lost the chairman, ended the CEO, ended the high performance
(07:55):
manager, ended the the head coach, Darren Lehman finished
the captain and the vice captain.
So all your leadership is gone and ultimately in cultures or in
life, leadership is the number one aspect of performance in my
opinion. So that had all left.
So that then became what I'd sayabout a more what we talk about
(08:18):
cultures, about behaviours, about expectations, and we had
to turn that around. And then I go, well, I'm talking
a lot, sorry. But then you go to franchise
cricket and frankly I'm just learning franchise cricket.
Cricket I'd three years break from coaching after the
Australian team got invited to coach at the in the IPL and now
(08:38):
the Hundreds. So I'm just getting my head
around it. But they're very, very different
beasts, there's no question about that.
Jo, you mentioned, I think just before we we started 2019, you
had a nice time in Manchester having dinner with Sir Alex
Ferguson. So what the sort of key tips
that must have been amazing. But I'm sure he talked a lot of
leadership and all of us in England, obviously he's hold on
(09:00):
such a a pedestal. That must have been pretty cool.
Was mate, we, we just had Michael Vaughan organised it for
us. Actually I was at, I was, he's
good mates with Gilly and Vonniesaid I was, I was commentating
for the no actually I was coaching, sorry.
Of course I was still ever in Adelaide the year before for the
Test series and Vonnie was thereand we're talking about and I
(09:23):
said something about Alex Ferguson.
He said why you, you admire Alexfirst said are you kidding me
mate? I've got his book on my desk at
the Wacker. But it's Alex Ferguson mate,
he's the king and I don't even really follow football to be
honest. And he said would you like to
meet him? I said what do you mean?
He goes, yeah, I'll organise, I'll organise you a meeting if
(09:44):
you like and say whatever anyway.
And it was arranged. There was the Ben Stokes,
obviously the miracle match, theunbelievable victory that you
guys had. So we're literally the worst day
of my coaching career that night.
I've never been in a darker place in my life than after that
innings. And then we were due the day
(10:07):
before that Test match, the 4th Test at Old Trafford.
That was when I was had planned to meet Sir Alex Ferguson.
So we go there. I went there with Steve War, who
was over with us and Sir Alex Ferguson and his best mate and
another another guy. And the first we went to is a
favorite Italian restaurant in in, up in Manchester lunchtime.
(10:32):
And we were meant to train at 3:00, right?
As it turned out, I didn't go totraining the day before the 4th
test. I did not go to training.
So I kept talking to Alex Ferguson.
It was so flippin 'cause to ringin our assistant 'cause I'm not
coming. You guys organised the last day
before. It's a good one.
Huh. It was good wine.
Well, just in case I got there, I stayed off the wine broiler.
(10:53):
And I know you love wine. If it was a dinner date, I
reckon we would have had an evenbetter time.
But oh mate. But the first thing he says, we
walk in and within 30 seconds ofmeetings to Alex Ferguson,
right, We're just standing in the foyer waiting to go to
house. He goes.
Just remember, son, truth works.I said, pardon, he goes, truth
(11:13):
works, always tell the truth. And I thought, fact, there's my
next tattoo. How cool is that?
Truth works. And then we, we, that was his
first Pearl of wisdom. And then he there was a couple
of others that he shared with me.
One was when we lose, the first thing I would always do is I
would always go and sit in my office and I'd ask myself a
(11:36):
simple, what could I have done different as the coach.
He said what most people do is they said he should have done
that, he should have done that, she should have done that, he
should. And they point it for everyone
else. But the first thing you gotta do
is ask yourself, you're the leader, what you could have done
different and then go from there.
Great advice. So truth works.
Analyse what you can do before you point fingers to everything
(11:57):
everyone else. And then he's telling me some
other great advice. But then he talked about the
media, how he used to deal with the media.
He was legend with the media andmake sure you tell the media
what they what you want them to hear, not what they want you to
tell them. Great advice, not all that.
And then the last thing was brilliant, he said.
We often worry about cutting players from our team and in
(12:18):
that is a very cut throat business, right?
The EPL, we always worry about cutting people and especially
the stars from our team. But if they don't fit into your
culture, if they don't fit into your expectations, you've got to
cut them right. But then he said what most
people do is they worry, or whatif they go and be a star
somewhere else? Or what if they come back and
(12:40):
they play a good game against you?
But he said this is the clinch clincher.
He said if you cut them, you've only got to think about them for
two days of the year. You have to think about them
every day of the year. And there's people in your team
you think about every day of theyear.
They drive you flippin mad. They don't keep you awake at
night. So he said cut them.
You've only got to worry about them two days when you play
(13:01):
against them. And then you can do something
to, you know, you can do something to stop them kicking a
goal or whatever. And it's great advice we often
get so caught up in holding ontobecause worry about what they
might do somewhere else. Don't I?
And it's as a coach, you've got to get the right people.
And if you haven't got the rightpeople, eventually you got to
cut them. And when you do, it's like a sea
(13:22):
breeze through the whole organization.
That's great advice. I wasn't going to bring it up
actually Stokes his innings in 2019, but as you mentioned it,
we'll have a little chat about it.
Was that one of the now you, theemotions gone a bit of being the
coach? Was that one of the best knocks
you've seen in Test match cricket?
Oh, but, and it's really interesting because we got a, we
had you mob 9 down and I remember we're all, I think it
(13:45):
was 70. They need 70 to win still.
Yeah, some. Yeah, 70. 8 And I remember we're
all cock a hoop like where everyone's up in the change room
and everyone's all happy and youknow, you know, this is about to
put beer on ice. And I said, and I remember, I
say that all that coach, I said,boys, until Stokes is out, this
is not over. And they're going and they're
going here, whatever coach, you're an idiot.
(14:06):
I said, trust me, until Stokes is out, this is not over.
I think Josh had been run out. So we go, fuck, how good is
that? So we're on a you got run out,
didn't you, Josh? Yeah, Stokes around me.
I'd have, I'd have knocked him off but Stokes around me.
Yeah, well, that's the thing. So I thought if I'm going to go
through some misery, you can go through some misery for this few
minutes for not being the hero. OK.
I remember when you got run out,it was one of the greatest.
(14:27):
I've never felt happier in my life because I thought you were
the one who was going to 1. Bloke is going to destroy us.
So I saw the back of you, so I said beauty.
So I'm starting to feel a bit confident.
But nine down, 70 runs and then that innings.
Oh my God, he just kept smackinghim.
And then there's a, we did this documentary called the test.
(14:49):
It was on Amazon and it was on that, you know, that series.
And there's a scene and we, we were allowed to talking about
values and culture. I was allowed to look at some of
the final cuts. And I remember I was at the
front of my house and the producer or director rings me.
He goes, what do you think? I said, there's one scene in
the, in this documentary that you cannot put in.
(15:10):
You've got to cut out, he said, which I said when Nathan Lyon
missed that run out from Ben Stokes, he said, what do you
mean? I said because I kicked the bin.
I I kicked around, booted the bin and there's buddy bottles
going everywhere and there's bottle and I said you gotta cut.
People think I'm a flippin psycho, He said yeah, but you
(15:30):
see what you did next? I said what do you do?
Nathan Lyon? It was like throwing a piece of
baby misses this run out. What do you mean what I did
next? It was the easiest bin of thing.
He said you picked up all the bottles, mate.
I said what do you mean I pickedup all the buzz.
You're gonna look at the scene. He said one of your guys values
after Samba. It was humility.
You kicked the bin, there's shiteverywhere and you picked up all
(15:52):
the bottles and put them back inthe bin with three runs to get.
And it was funny because a lot of people watched the
documentary said, mate, what about when you kick the bin and
then picked up all the bottles? So there you go.
But yeah, it was an unbelievable, unbelievable
innings. And you know, I say then it was,
I'll get back to Ben Stokes in asecond because what happened
next? But I remember that night, I was
(16:15):
in a room by myself and my missus, my I was Facetimed my
wife back in Australia, she goes, what are you doing?
I said, I'm drinking. She goes, you drink, What are
you drinking? So I'm drinking Scotch And she
said you don't drink. I said, fuck, I'd do tonight,
baby. I was sitting in my room
drinking. Scott was the literally the
(16:36):
lowest moment of my whole probably cricket career.
I could not. But as a as a coach, I could not
because that's the Ashes there. And then.
It was just the way it happened.It's like, oh man, it was, yeah,
it was an and it was people. That's great for the game and
all this sort of shit, but that wasn't great for my soul that
night. You know, you Alex Ferguson
(16:57):
thing, you know, what would you do differently?
Like as I think you might made didn't you watch it back and
stuff and like what would you have done differently in that?
Or is it just one of those days?There was just a miracle.
That and Stokes, he was too good.
Yeah, good question. I think because we what a lot of
people don't remember, you remember Jos and Brodie that the
(17:20):
night before that game is the Stokes's bowling spell.
No one remembers that. No one talks about remember.
I think I think Joff had gone off with cramp or something in
his leg and Stokes, he just bowled and bowled and bold and
they're getting to the point going, mate, come on.
Like you can't keep going. And then he got he got Matthew
(17:42):
Wade out right. So we were flying.
We were four down or whatever. Matthew had been playing.
Well, he got Matthew aid. I think he bought him a bounce
or a court behind or something. So that drags Tim Pine out when
the sort of we were cruising andthen he got Tim Pine out.
So all of a sudden we're 6 down or 7 down or whatever and no one
(18:03):
ever talks about this. The Stokes bowling the day
before, before his innings. So what, what would I do, dear?
I, I think that was a really significant part that there's
always those moments. That's if it's, if it's 100
cricket or Test cricket, there'salways significant moments,
right? And then we always talk about
staying calm under pressure, stay calm, stay calm, stay calm.
(18:27):
What we would have done and we were terrible at our referrals
and we were just did never got it right and we had to get a
process in place for our referrals and then panicking or
under pressure remember we referred that LBW.
Affleche, yeah. Affleche that right and it was
missing by Mars and miss sittingup in the box going mate, like
(18:47):
seriously. And then there was the LBW from
Ben Stokes, which is plum. It literally pitched middle hit
middle and the umpire gave it not out.
We didn't have any referrals left.
So I think staying cool under pressure is his number one and
and clenching those big moments.And the night before for me was
(19:09):
as big a moment as the the final, you know, the miracle
innings. Now I remember that actually, I
remember thinking you could haveput the game to bed made
AS470500 because and it just kept getting out in different
ways. Remember Lychee bowled one
through the gate to Harris and just as we were getting flat, we
got a wicket and it was definitely that feeling.
(19:30):
So it gave us something with theability to chase.
We mentioned the Amazon Dark England Cricket I think have
turned down different things at times to get inside the ropes,
so to speak, inside the walls ofthe change room.
Is that something you enjoyed it?
Did you like having that that visibility or as a coach you'd
just prefer to to do your own thing?
Well, first I had no idea we're doing it.
(19:51):
I did my press conference in it when I was appointed to the
Australian cricket role. I flew to Melbourne from Perth
and I had to be back, so I had acommitment that I had to be back
for the next day. So I fly there, get in the taxi
on the way from the Melbourne Hotel where we did the press
conference to the airport, and there's this dude sitting in the
(20:14):
cab next to me with a camera andhe's asking me all these
questions. I thought it must have just been
for another interview to save time to.
Da, da, da, da, and go on the Cricket Australia website or
whatever. Anyway, no stress, thought
nothing of it. Then we come to England for that
first one day series when I was coach and the same dude rocks up
on the plane. I'm going, what are you doing
(20:34):
here? He goes, I'm doing the
documentary. I said what are you talking
about? He goes, yeah, we're doing a
documentary on you for the next 12 months or 18 months.
I had no idea, no idea. And then I got back from England
and then I knew about this documentary and he was there.
It was good though 'cause he was, he's a stand up comic as
well. We had one cameraman did the
(20:54):
whole documentary. It was bizarre.
And he was a stand up comic as his other profession.
So every single he became part of the family and every day he
did a joke of the day for us. But he had, and that was for 18
months. I don't know how this is a, this
is a cool skill, right? He would come up with a joke
every flippin day. So he'd become better and he'd
(21:15):
film every waking moment. So we get home from the first
series and I literally start getting anxiety because I'm
thinking, fuck, what are they going to put in this document?
I know they're doing it. And then you think about some of
the stuff you talk about, some of the things you say, I'm
going, Oh my God, like, how are we going to get portrayed?
And he was with us for 18 months, literally every day for
(21:36):
18 months. And as it turned out, the
documentary was a great success.But there was, there was anxious
moments. And I'd also, as good a bloke as
he was, the day he stopped it was like the whole world was
off. I'm not sure, however, else I
can only speak for myself. The whole world was up our
shoulders because you could justbe normal again.
(21:57):
Yeah, I get that. I.
Thought there'd be like more production than just one guy.
That's quite amazing. No one.
It's unbelievable. One cameraman did the whole
thing and then they send all thevision back to Melbourne or
whatever and they produced what was a great, it's amazing.
I was at the Lord's the other day and we're as we're throwing
some balls before the game and Ireckon four or five English kids
(22:20):
and all separate said, ah, I sawyou in the documentary, I saw
you in the test. And then you go to India.
Holy shit. I reckon 1 billion Indians have
watched the documentary. They loved it.
Honestly, mate, they all, they can recite stuff that happened
in the documentary. So from that point of view was
positive. But actually at the time it was,
(22:41):
yeah, it was intrusive, but it'sthe way the world we live in now
isn't. I mean, some of the some of the
docko's on the different sports are awesome to watch.
So it's just the way of the world, I guess.
I love that bit where David Warner's trying to get the, the,
you know, in Sri Lanka, the bottles of water have the
plastic and you can't get him off the, the lid and he's got
out and he's trying to get this bottle of water.
(23:02):
I've done that 1000 times. Just cannot get that bit of
plastic off that bottle. But when you've just got out and
you frustrated, he throws the bottle of water.
That really made me smile. I love seeing batters get angry
when they get out. Oh, it's pretty funny, is it?
Yeah. No worries, mate.
Oh, yeah. Good on you.
Oh, you love seeing it, do you? Yeah, yeah.
No worries. I was going to say for all that
you've achieved in your career and everyone knows you for now,
(23:22):
kicking a bin in an Amazon dock.No, no picking the bottles up
mate. Just picking.
Them up. Yeah, that's the good bit.
So you're going from there and Iwas worried.
I think I think I'm a psycho. But then pick them up and
because you feel but it's like getting angry when you get out
broadly like I was hot. I was no good at it right.
I used to get I used to get grumpy as and it's the the
(23:43):
things you regret about in life.I've been getting grumpy when
you get out. I still regret some of it.
I bet you at the time it's like you're a little kid.
You know when you're a little kid playing cricket and you get
your brother gets you out and you wanna keep batting well, you
go to a Test match or and you just wanna keep batting.
I've been practising all this time I'm in front of a big crowd
I fucking love. I'm living the dream here and
you're telling me I've got a it's a big knob like you gets me
(24:05):
out. I'm gonna walk off one you're
laughing at me and give me a send off.
Then I've got to sit there and go, oh, fuck this.
Most seriously. Like getting out is no good.
It's like losing. Yeah, no good.
I remember doing I was 12th man for so you Jo, you were my
captain obviously when I first started at Somerset and I played
maybe a couple of games and you actually made my debut when you
(24:27):
missed out injured. But in the next game you came
back and I was 12th man and JackChantry got you out.
Do you remember Jack Chantry, a left arm sema from Worcester?
And they had these like sliding doors in the pavilion at
Somerset and as JLS got out, they're like youngster, go and
shut the doors. I'm like, what?
He's he's going to go wild here.Absolutely.
(24:48):
What? So I've got to jump up, shut
these doors and you're going around the dressing room going
I've faced them all. Wazi Mackram, show him back to
Wacky and you get out to Jack fucking Shantry and I reckon the
whole ground is like looking up at the pavilion game.
Well, if Jack Shantry's listen to this, I'm sorry, buddy.
(25:11):
I don't mean like, you know, it's just emotion at the time.
But it's funny you say that justbecause that they used to have a
silver bin in the, you know, oneof those silver's that you step
on. And it was a real tall silver in
the Taunton dressing room and I kicked it or smashed it one day.
Anyway, I rang. I got as soon as I went.
Well, what have you done, you idiot?
Like you always do. I rang my missus who was with, I
(25:34):
said, babe, you got to go to, I don't know, Max's or somewhere
and you've got to buy this silver bin.
So she walked into the ground after with a brand new silver
because I felt so bad that I'd smashed the bin in the in the
thing. It's funny though, 'cause it's,
it's funny talking to you 2 now,because you're right, Josh, you
made your debut when I, I can't remember, I missed the game and
(25:55):
you made your debut And I, I remember meeting your family
that day when you made your a Boo that which was awesome.
And, and broadly I remember and I'm not sure what ashes it was,
but you bowled to us as a net bowler right at Leicester.
At 2005, yeah. 2000 It was a 2005.
OK, I thought it was. Anyway, so Brody bowls to us in
the Nets. Joss, as a net bowler this year.
(26:17):
You How old were you in 2518? Well, 18 this big gangly kid,
blonde hair. Probably had earrings then, did
you? And you know, look a bit of a
holy and anybody come in and we were all going and we're so
nice. I thought hopefully we're really
nice. Yeah.
It's brilliant, brilliant experience, man.
This kid can bowl, right? And then you played against,
there was an injury or something.
You played the next game, right?Got to get 5 for in that game
(26:39):
against us. Yeah, I saw I bowled the day
before as a netball, you know, you get the opportunity to come
and bowl the Aussies like yeah, absolutely.
You bowl for like a couple of hours and then someone went down
and I played the next day for Leicestershure.
We we borrowed. Did we borrow Chris Rogers off
you as well or we put out sort of a team?
I remember I got Gilchrist, I think.
(26:59):
Did I get Gilchrist through the gate?
And then Brett Lee? I was absolutely buzzing.
Like that was Dreamworld for me.Yeah, so it's funny this, the
beautiful thing about the game is I see you tell you guys as
kids, the end of my career, and then you watch it all develop
and they'll be sitting on a podcast.
Now. That's what I love about the
game of cricket, right? So after the when I we talked
(27:19):
about being in North London, I stayed with a guy by the name of
Nigel Ray, who for a long time still is to a degree involved
with the Saracens. And he's like my second father,
second family now. And after this I went to his
daughter Lucy's wedding in Biarritz 12 years ago.
And the first week of September I'm going to their son's wedding
in France as well, like, you know, in a couple of weeks time.
(27:42):
So it's so cool how the game of cricket offers you the
opportunity to meet mates and we're and we're commentating
right broadly this this summer, right?
Yeah. And but you are going to have so
much fun. You are going to with the seven
crew. And it's just, yeah, I just love
how it all comes together with this really fortunate, the game
of cricket that we've all been able to play.
(28:02):
And Jack Shantry, I think, is now umpiring in the hundreds.
So the London spirits are going to get hit on the surfboards and
away they go. Thanks for coming.
Oh nice. Seven LBW is coming your way
hopefully, but. There's a couple of them.
There's a couple of umpires serious over here right there,
I've just noticed in the 100, somaybe one of them is Jack
Chandry. I can't remember.
Jack No. He's got your number.
(28:22):
That's why all those years ago. See there, that's try the
fucking wolf finger UPS. It's like Blackie.
I was always petrified of it when Blackie became a, Ian
Blackwell became a umpire because, Oh my God, any team I
was coaching, the finger would have been straight up over and
over just. Still to come, we'll ask JL
(28:42):
about the 2005 Ashes 20 years on.
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(29:03):
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Yeah, I like a glass of wine. Keep the Stewart Broad wine.
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(29:23):
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(29:47):
20 years ago was the 05 Ashes was that Was that probably the
most exposure you'd seen in a ina Test match series?
That was an unbelievable advertisement for Test cricket
2005. And what a series.
I remember getting on the plane on the way home first.
I remember watching all the celebrations after and and that
(30:08):
because we were at that time, wewere a great time.
My gosh. I mean, you had Gilly at 7,
Bawney and McGrath, Ponting. Hey, Doss, you know what, what a
what a team it was and to lose it, that really stung us.
But I remember getting off on the plane on the way and it was
(30:28):
like almost fair. I'll say this with absolute
respect, but it was like swimming into a tidal wave for
six weeks. Because when you get when and
it'll be the same for England I'm sure in Australia, but over
here, if England start getting on top of you, you guys start
getting on top of us. It is relentless, the media, the
(30:49):
crowds, it is, it is exhausting.And that series particularly and
then then you, I was with, I waswith Fraser Stewart last night.
I played golf with him, who's from the MCC, and he said it was
the greatest day of his life. That too, that that when the KP
innings, Kevin Peterson innings.And that day was the best day of
(31:10):
his life. And he talked about it in his
wedding speech. He was telling me that that was
the this is the second best day of my life.
The best day of my life was whenKevin Peterson got 100 against
the Aussies and they ended up winning the Test series.
So yeah, mate, it was an, it was, that was Test cricket at
its greatest and it was intense and it was hard and it was, it
(31:31):
was brilliant. And Warner is greatest as well.
And like, what an entertainer hewas in that series.
Best thing I ever did in my cricket career was play create
with Shane Warne and mainly whenyou had him and McGraw you won
most games, like the very few games.
And it was funny though because,and I was talk about this last
(31:52):
night as well with Fraser Stewart about his greatest
memory. Mine was when Warner dropped KP
for Naughty and it you round us up 'cause you know KP and
morning they were the 2 rock stars and they'd go to concerts
together and they'd be seeing Chris Martin together and they'd
go shopping and they got Gucci bags together and they got Prada
I can sunglasses together and they're on the front pages.
(32:14):
They're all best mates. And then he dropped in for
Naughty and we go, oh, here we go.
And then that, that was close tothe best innings I've ever seen
in my life under pressure. And like, Brett Lee was bowling
quick and there was KP might, I'm sure he does remember this.
But KP just before lunch got hitsomewhere and it was like a
(32:36):
football player going down. I was like, oh mate, because he
wanted to take a bit of time off.
So he got to lunch. It was like bees, Aussie bees
swat 'cause he's only have aboutfour.
I ran from deep backwards, square leg, fine leg ran down.
We're already coming. You get up you bubby, Ba ba ba,
ba, ba ba ba ba ba mate soft. Get on with it.
(32:57):
And we gave it to him. This kid with the bloody funny
hair and shit, we gave it to him.
That was the good. That was the old days of mate
full blown. Well, I love the word sledge,
you know, but mate, it was and then he came out.
Holy shit. He hit a shot of Brett Lee.
He pulled a ball of Brett, whoseball and quit Binger was fire
(33:20):
and he pulled him back through mid on.
I was like took your breath away.
Then he started hooking and they're going miles.
You're getting top edges. Then he's hitting in the middle
and they're going further and further.
That was an and stood up on those balls and hit through
backward point and threw the covers off the bat, mate, that
was an unbelievable innings. Yeah, great, great series.
(33:42):
Brody, I've. Watched that DVD 05 about 1000
times. You've actually just inspired me
to watch it again. I think that's my afternoon.
Yeah, that's why. I've never watched it.
I'm not watching it. What was what was different
about that England team? Like you obviously played
against a lot of England sides and going into that series,
obviously you say you're part ofthe greatest Australian team or
(34:04):
one of them. At that point, you probably
fully expected to win, but expecting.
A great question. Was there something different?
Yeah, momentum, confidence, and that's why I was fascinated.
We'll talk about the, the upcoming Ashes, but I, I thought
this was a big series for England versus India going into
the Australian, which is coming up.
(34:25):
So, but the reason I say that isI remember really clearly
England were having great success leading up to it.
You know, they were winning. They were winning and they came
confident, right? And I, I was the fortunate one.
It's it's really interesting because, and I watched Zach
Crawley the last Ashes here. I love watching the first ball
(34:47):
of the Ashes and remember Zach Crawley pumped that that drive.
The Aussies had a really strangefield setting from ball one of
the Ashes and he pumped that cover drive the wash.
OK, it's on here. But the reason I say that the
very first ball I faced against Harmison in that test series.
So and, and you guys have lived it and I only saw it first hand
(35:08):
from a spectator's point of view.
Last see, I was here for the Test match and it goes silent,
you know, the first ball of the Test match at Lords like nowhere
else in the whole world. Everywhere else the the noise
goes the other way. Like people are sort of getting
louder as the ball around it goes silent.
And I was facing the ball going,so what's happening?
(35:30):
Because everything went completely silent.
Anyway, Palmerston balled the first ball of that series and it
flew past my nose and Geraint Jones took it above his head.
And I remember the couple of things happened.
Whoever was feeling it, back pads walking towards me, the guy
at points walking towards me, the slips was like everyone was
walking towards me as if to say fuck it's on here and remember
(35:52):
Haydos walking down and go mate,be sharp little fella, they're
on here. After the first ball of the
Ashes they are on here and I went, Oh yeah, no worries.
And the next ball, the second ball hit me on the elbow and it
like blew up like a tennis ball.And I don't like because
everyone thinks, you know, opening batters are tough and
stuff, but I actually didn't feel it.
(36:13):
But I had I had this massive, itmust have been a blood vessel.
And I literally had a tennis ball on my elbow, but I didn't
feel like there was nothing. But I sort of played it up a bit
because I think, oh dude, how tough's he?
Like he's still batting, right? But that was the second ball.
And then I don't know if you remember Haydos got hit on the
helmet in that first spell. I've never seen Matthew Hayden
(36:35):
get hit on the head once. Haydos get hit on the helmet and
then Punter got hit under the eye and he's bleeding under the
eye and he's still got the scar today, right?
This all happened in the first hour of it was the best hour of
cricket I've ever seen. That was the first session.
So my point was just that England, they were up and about
(36:57):
that mate, you could feel it. It was this mindset.
And then we ended up winning that Test in 2 1/2 days, right?
But England still that, you know, they still had the OK,
they've beaten to see, but the and then they and then McGrath
stepped on the ball and then, but England had that mindset.
They had that killer instinct and we knew it.
We could feel it. Freddie was on fire, Freddy's
(37:19):
the been the top three bowlers Iever faced in my life and he was
on and you know, the momentum was building then.
England had a good fast bowling attack, they played well.
So yeah, I think that's what it was, momentum, confidence
leading into this and they had that that killer instinct that
we are taking it to the Aussies and they did.
OK folks, in a moment we'll ask Justin for his take on Bassball
(37:43):
right after this. The business of cricket is
powered by Sage, the official accounting software partner of
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(38:03):
visit sage.com. We're delighted to welcome
Julian Wood too. For the love of cricket.
Julian, tell us what you do and how it all started.
My business is the JW Cricket Academy, but I'm probably known
sort of for in the cricketing world as power hitting.
The power hitting man, Really. How did you develop this into a
(38:24):
business? A good friend of mine went to
live in the States. He introduced me on the back of
this. He introduced me to a guy called
Scotty Cobra, who was the hitting coach for the Texas
Rangers. I spent a week with the Texas
Rangers, which was really cool. But one thing these guys did,
they hit the ball seriously hard.
And they were different. They were built differently and
then I came back and Graham Thorpe was the England batting
(38:47):
coach and it must have looked a bit dodgy.
I met him in a car park, sewed in this stuff and he went wow
this is like this is quite ground breaking.
The hundreds on at the minute tell us some of the players
you've worked with and is it a challenge batting in a different
format? Someone like Liam Livingston,
Livi hits the ball hard, right? And you get players who hit the
ball hard. I won't make them hit the ball
(39:08):
hard because they hit it hard. And I look at these guys, I look
at how I can make their miss hits better with the power
hitting side of it in the obviously the hundred, you know,
boundaries are massive. Now it's all about it's, it's
boundary counts. T20 cricket now every six you
hit gives you 3 dots, every fouryou hit gives you 2 dots.
So it sort of creates time. What are the main challenges you
(39:31):
face in running this as a business?
OK. So with the, with the business,
right, the power hitting system,it's, it's like a brand, right?
I've got it's, I've got a reallystrong brand, right?
Which it is, but I'm the brand. So me setting up three different
venues doesn't work because they, well, hang on a minute,
(39:52):
Where's Woody? So, but that's the life of a
freelance coach, you see. So it's, but I quite enjoy it.
I, I enjoy that buzz a bit. It gives me a real buzz.
Best of luck with your business,Julian.
What do you think about the series coming up in Australia?
Always tough to go away, as you've talked about.
You arrive in England, the momentum, the the feeling that
the crowd are on you. What do you get?
(40:14):
The sense of this series coming away, how the team shaping up.
And this will probably make a headline but I'll ride it so
I'll I'll claim it anyway. But I just wonder England to, to
win in Australia. Like if you look at the two
teams at the moment, 1 Australiaare grappling with the top
three. And that's rare for an
(40:35):
Australian cricket team. They are grappling and that's,
you know, I never want to go into a big series not knowing
who your top three are. And at the moment Australia are
grappling with that. That's just reality.
I mean, they've they've sort of they brought Sam Constance in
last year as the talk of the town and then they didn't play
him in Sri Lanka and then they played him then they played him
(40:56):
in really tough conditions in inWest Indies recently.
Australia beat the a very a weakWest Indian team which and a
whole podcast in itself, but. I don't think George Bailey even
knows what the top three is. I don't think anyone knows what
the top three will be. No, see, we see in my view now
they, they and I don't have to worry about.
The hardest thing about coachingthe Australian cricket team is
(41:18):
selecting it because you can't win, right?
And, and I learned within a few months, because if I pick
whoever from Victoria, I should have picked him from NSW, I
picked him from New South. There's a real thing that I'm
sure there must be parts that over here in England, but it's
really hard. And but I Australia, they, they,
they bought Cameron Green at #3 at for and he did well.
(41:42):
And I think they have to stick with him there.
They have to stick with him because he did well.
He is probably the, you know, inreally tough conditions in West
Indies, he did well. So they probably and whether if
he starts bowling again, that's he's he had that operation on
his back. He had the stress fraction in
his back. He had the operation in New
Zealand. He's starting to bowl again.
(42:05):
So that'll be a big bonus if they got to you know, him and by
Webster playing. But I think they've got to play
Cameron Green AT3I. I honestly they've got to find a
spot for Manus Labour, Shane. Agreed.
With his experience with his andhe'll work it out.
I mean, he's had a little break from the game.
I think he got a bit defensive in his game.
(42:27):
He's aware of that. But he's had played fifty tests
now that he's got to be in there.
So but but how they're going to mix this up?
Fascinating. But that one point I make is
that not being secure in their top three coming to the Ashes is
an area that I'm sure England are going to be licking their
lips at at the moment. Second, England's batting is
(42:51):
mate, there's there's some talent there, right?
But they're up against you. You, you know, you could say.
One of the best groups of all time.
In of all time, Yeah, of all time.
And, and I think Nathan Lyon, I said it in the the Ashes here
when Nathan Lyon went down for that, that was the end of the
series because he's the missing link.
The, the one area that England at the moment don't seem to have
(43:14):
a like our top 3 is a, is a spinbowler.
And in Australia you must have aspin bowler.
And the temptation always is to come to Australia and play 4
quicks because you'll see the wicket.
But you must to win in Australiamust, in my opinion, from
watching a lot of cricket, you must have a spin bowler who's
going to at the, at the very least hold up and in for the
(43:36):
quicks. Yeah.
And if you do what Lion? And I didn't realise Lion,
Nathan Lyon was so good until I started coaching the Australian
cricket. And he is a gun.
He is a gun cricketer because he's hard to fight, he's hard to
score off and he takes wickets and he gets the bounce in
Australia. So to not to sit on the fence.
I I think it's going to be a really, really close series.
(44:00):
I'd go back to that point. My question for England will be,
have you got the killer instinctto finish off a series?
If you get a chance, and I've seen it, you know, the two all
here, last Ashes series 2, all against India.
When I think India, you know, itwas a good series, but England
had the chances to win that series.
Have you got the killer instinctto win the Ashes in Australia?
(44:23):
That's going to be the big question.
I think a little advantage for for England, throw my tour and
Crips always the Gabba first up,you're sort of arriving in
Australia's home. It's aggressive their record.
They're thinking the last one inwe'll last got a result one in
8680, seven, 2010 when we went and won there, we got a draw and
we're absolutely thrilled with getting out of the Gabba.
(44:44):
There's first Test, isn't there?It's at the Optus in purse.
I think that's a little bit of apsychological advantage for for
England because that that you'renot in Brisbane, then you go
back there for a pink ball, which I think the Aussies will
win the pink ball Stark and the bowlers are just so good with
it. So England have to get a result
out Perth. That's how I see it.
They have to go in, play the best bowling attack, play their
(45:05):
best team and just go all out for the for the win at Perth and
hit the Aussies hard. Because I think you're right,
that top three, if you could play Wood, Archer, Atkinson,
Stokes and Bashir at that top three, break into them, then
then the series is alive. But if Australia win the 1st,
it's always, it's always a long,long way back, I think.
(45:26):
It's a really good point about the Brisbane Test.
It's all, it was always a cauldron for us and it has been
for and then it's no longer the first Test there and we like we
lost to India a couple of seriesago, Richard Pant play that
incredible innings at the Gabba.But it was the 4th Test during
COVID and it was the flattest wicket.
(45:46):
But at that time of the year in January, it was different than
playing in November. So you're right.
And and we've lost that advantage.
I think that said the Gabba, youknow, and it could you're right.
If Archers playing, if Woods playing, then yeah, that'll be a
that'll be a big opportunity. But that whacker wicket also
(46:08):
England have going to have to, you know, there's the Optus
wicket. Sorry, there's still, it's just
like playing at the old Wacker, good pace, good bounce.
How do you see England? How do you see like England
style in the way they bat and stuff going in Australia?
Obviously everyone always seems to be sceptical of baseball and
stuff, but. Well, what I believe, and I've
(46:31):
believed this forever and, and Ialways go back on, the only
players who had success against Warren and McGrath were those
who attacked them, who had the courage to attack them, right?
They got back in their face and they hated it because no one did
it right. And they're the two of the
greatest, they're the 2 greatestI played with.
So in you have to, you have to have that mindset, but you've
(46:53):
got to have that mindset and they've got to have that killer
mindset to go into it. That said, I was only talking to
Ollie Pope about it. I Remember Remember when Nathan
Lyon heard his calf muscle at Lords the last series here, and
I remember sitting, I was sitting with people watching.
I said that's the end of the series.
That's the that's series done. They said what he must say.
(47:15):
He's so important. I'd said the the missing link of
the this series is Nathan Lyon, because he's the one.
He's a gun. He goes down.
And then that next two hours of batting was the dumbest batting
I've ever seen in my life. I nearly walked out of Lords as
a cricket tragic. It was the dumbest batting I've
ever seen in my that was the moment.
(47:35):
And I know the Test went close and that, you know, there was
the, the Alex Carey incident andall that sort of stuff later in
the Test, but that two hours andAustralia started bouncing
England and blokes are running down and they're trying to hook.
And Poppy said to me the other day, I tried to pull 1 and got
caught at square leg. That was the moment.
(47:55):
That was the moment right then, so.
Could have drilled him into the ground.
Could have got. A huge lead.
That was it, 100% broadly right.I was feeling it, don't worry, I
was feeling it in the change room.
Yeah, I bet you guys were. I bet that you know, So that was
a really important moment. So go back to your point about,
you know, call it Baz ball or the aggressive approach.
I think England must play that approach in Australia, no
(48:18):
question, because they'll put pressure back on the great.
But that's going to take couragebecause you got stock bowling
like he does. Hazelwood never misses the spot.
Pat comers is there is, you know, is a generational bowler.
So it's going to take great courage.
But if they can, that's the bestchance, as we saw in the back
half of the last Ashes series here, then that's going to be
the best chance. So yeah, I, I love the, I love
(48:42):
the approach, the positive approach.
And England, now that's to the to.
And Poppy said it to me the other day.
They're two years more experience.
They know that they've got a can't just be all that attack
all the time, but they've got toget that balance right.
No, it's, it's, I'm really excited about the series.
You know, it's just not often anEngland team goes to Australia
(49:03):
and you think, oh, is there, is there a chance here because
Australia have been so dominant in their own conditions?
It's it's really exciting. Thanks, Joe, Thanks for your
time so much. We know you're you're a busy
man. I just one bit of advice I need.
I'm joining you on the seven commentary team in Australia.
How do I survive as a pomp? Oh, especially you, Brody.
(49:24):
They're going to throw you to the wolves.
You got one big advantage, Brody.
Now you're one of the brothers to.
I've got you and Haydos. Haydos, Ponting Katich.
Yeah. And no one messes with our
brothers, mate. So now you're in.
I remember John T Rhodes two years ago, John T Rhodes came
to. He commentated with us and he
(49:46):
kept saying, Oh my God, this. I've never seen anything like
this because we are literally like, we are literally like
brothers and it's the coolest. I said with all our South
African guys I know we never talk to each other.
We never see each other. We and you guys go out to dinner
every night. You have a beer every night, you
play golf together and it's it'sthe best.
That's why it's my favorite job of the year because for six
(50:08):
weeks I'm with my best mates. We're talking cricket.
The the great thing is you guys know just you will find out one
day is the the last ball of the game is bowl and then you're in
your jeans and your T-shirt and 20 minutes later you're back
having a beer. You'd have to think about the
game at all. When you're head coach, you
think about you don't sleep because you're thinking about
(50:29):
the game 24 hours a day. When you're a player, you're
always thinking about it. When you're a commentator, mate,
how cool is it? Last ball's bowled right?
Oh boys, where are we going for beer?
Oh. Jay, I've spent the last, I've
spent the last two years trying to tell people.
Commentary's hard. Mate, seriously, you are.
Now I know you're a bullshit artist because it is the best
(50:50):
job in the world. It's hard.
Like seriously, Yeah, maybe you've got to travel around the
country a bit. And.
And so don't worry, you have allthe brothers, all have the
Channel 7 brothers with your brother and anyone gives you a
hard time then. He's going to hold the day.
Before we wouldn't. We'd throw you out to the
wolves. Yeah, he is a knob.
The bloody pommy Knobby talks shit now.
(51:11):
No, no, don't talk. He's one of us now.
Because you're in Channel 7 Coventry box, mate.
You'll be fine. Don't worry.
That's gonna be great. I'm excited.
One of the brothers. You just joined the Brotherhood,
mate. Jose, why don't you come as
well? Let's just go as a group.
I think jail's just like reelingyour end and reeling your end.
You're going to get there all nice and comfy, Says he'll come
and pick you up at the airport, your land like nowhere to be
(51:33):
seen. Just he's told about 100 like
jobs to come and meet you. I'll be doing an interview on
Bay 13 at the MCG on Boxing Day.Yeah.
No, no, I say. That's where you'll love me.
That's where you'll. Love me.
Actually, I'm just about to sendJonesy and Jolie.
I'm going to send a message to them right now if you don't know
if I'm on air here, but I'm going to send it and saying I've
(51:54):
got this awesome idea. Let's get Audi Boxing Day Bay 13
do an interview. I'm doing it.
I'm all over it. I would love it as long as I can
have a beer in there. Yeah, well, Richie Ben, I used
to. I mean, now who was it?
Our Prime Minister, Bob Hawke. He went over there and he
sculled a pint of beer and they thought he was one of our most
popular prime ministers, went tobuy 13 and sculled a pint of
(52:17):
beer over there and they thoughthe was the greatest bloke of all
time. So there you go.
Copy that. Yeah, that's a good idea,
actually. Come up with some more good
ideas and you'll be right. Oh, brilliant, Jael, thanks so
much for your time and great to see you.
Great to hear from you and catchyou soon.
Great for the chat, see you guys.
That's it for this week. Thanks to our legendary guest
Justin Langat. And to our partners, Sage and
(52:37):
Late Weights. Please follow us on Instagram,
YouTube, and TikTok. And we'll see you next time.
One thing you don't do in Australia?
Don't cheat. And the boys cheated.
I wasn't going to bring it up actually Stokes his innings in
2019, but as you mentioned it, we'll have a little chat about.
It we did this documentary called The Test Holy.
I reckon 1 billion Indians have watched the documentary.
There's one scene you cannot putin.
You've got to cut out. I was going to say for all that
you've achieved in your career and, and everyone knows you've
(00:21):
been now kicking a bin in at Amazon dot.
Yeah, that's right. But did kick the Bin Hamerson
ball, the first ball of that series, and it flew past my
nose. Everyone was walking towards me
as if to say what's on here. Call it Baz Ball or the
aggressive approach. I think England must play that
approach in Australia. Joining on the seven commentary
team. How do I survive as a pomp?
(00:42):
Oh. Especially you, Brody.
I've faced them all. Wazi Mackram.
Show him actor and you get out to Jack.
I'm Stuart Broad, He's Josh Butler and he is Justin Lang, a
(01:02):
legendary Australian batter and now very successful coach.
Jail, thanks for joining us. How's London treating you?
Must feel like a second home after your time with Middlesex
there. Oh, it has brought it.
And Josh, thanks for having me on.
It's been awesome. I've loved the tournament, for
one. I think it's mass.
I mean it's been great for the last four years.
I think there's also massive room for growth with the 100
(01:25):
tournament. It's been brilliant.
But London, like you say, I've been coming.
I came here when I was 18 years old and played for the Old Mill
Hillians Cricket Club and I've sort of it's, it's literally
north North London has been a second home since I was 18.
So it's great to be here. Three years at Middlesex and and
Lords, I'm going to literally sound like a cricket tragic
(01:48):
here, but Lords I would nearly say is my favorite place on
earth, really. So, yeah.
So to have played three years now to be back here, it's a it's
a great thrill and I'm loving every minute of it.
Jail, just as a sort of coach, you come into the the spirit
this year. How do you you know, like I
said, it's a quick and frantic tournament.
I'm sure you only had a few days.
(02:10):
When you turn up, how do you as a coach come in and create an
atmosphere? Or what are your sort of key
principles when you're coaching to come into a franchise world?
Yeah, it's really interesting Josh, because I arrived in
London on the Thursday, the boyswere still playing county
cricket. The Test match, which we've got
(02:30):
to all say was one of the all time great Test series and and I
actually flagged that months agothat we have Ollie Pope and
Jamie Smith. As it turned out, Liam Dawson
and Jamie Overton were involved in the last two Test matches.
But after such a tough series and we've all we've all played
(02:51):
in the mentally, they're going to be exhausted, right?
So they were played, they finished the day before I
arrived in the Thursday. I met all the players on the
Saturday for the first time and the first taste of 100 cricket
and we played on the Monday. So it is difficult.
I was actually asked that question in the job interview by
(03:12):
it might have been Owen Morgan actually tell us about culture.
And I said, well, actually in the 100 and IPL is a bit
different because you have a more extended period and you're
sort of talking and involved in it for most of the year in one
way or the other. But they asked what's culture
and I think they might have beenexpecting me to go on with some
(03:34):
of the the cliched stuff that people try say, well, culture in
the 100 is winning because that's what it comes down to.
Where there was this old footy coach and voted as the number
one AFL player of all time. His name's Lee Matthews and he's
just like a legend of AFL footy,won four premierships, a great
(03:58):
player. And I remember I first started
coaching Chance and he said, I'll tell you what coaching is,
boys. And we're in it.
There's about six of us new coaches.
We're all starry eyed, you know,trying to learn about coaching.
I'll tell you what bloody coaching is.
And they all talk about this thing called culture.
I'll tell you what culture is. Culture's winning.
(04:19):
And we go, I said, Oh no, I can't because yeah, it's all
about winning, 'cause if you're winning, the board's happy, the
media's happy, the players are happy, the coaches are happy.
If the coaches are happy and theplayers are happy, the misses
are happy, then everyone's happy.
So just win. And you still believe?
That now obviously it's not all about that, right, But because
you gotta create an environment to ensure that you're winning
(04:40):
and pick the players that you'resure that they're winning.
But ultimately that's what it comes down to because we all
know this is right. If you're winning, oh, you got a
great culture in the team. If you're losing, that's oh, you
got such a bad culture in the team.
So, you know, so when it came tocreating environment, you pick
the right people and I always say they are they good players,
are they good blokes? And at London Spirit we were,
(05:02):
you know, Kane Williamson's the captain got some really good
people, and then you get to work.
Do you have to balance your style differently between
franchise? You're extremely successful with
Australia, You took over 2018 after the sort of Sam paper gay
you. You had a huge responsibility on
dragging that sort of team out of a a very tough period, which
(05:22):
from the outside looked like youdid purely on culture really end
up retaining the Ashes 2019 one in 2122 in record time 1AT20
World Cup. Was that based more on like the
mindset, the culture, dragging the team close to the supporters
once again? Yeah, no doubt there was.
(05:43):
I think if I look back on my coaching career, I started as an
assistant coach or batting coachand then I I coached WA and the
Scorchers in Australia and it was almost my dream job.
Because the thing about coaching, if you want to do it,
you've got to go away a lot because if you coach
internationally you're obviouslyaway most of the year if there's
(06:05):
very few dream jobs. And that was my dream job
because I was in WA and coachingall W Australian cricket and
coaching in the Big Bash. And that's all about you 'cause
you have the guys 12 months of the year.
And I loved every minute of thatbecause you can really develop
something. And we have to say that's been
(06:26):
sustained for the last 10 years.So Adam Voges was my captain
there and then he went straight to being the head coach.
I said just make him head. He's never been a coach before.
I said don't worry, we've got a great system, great culture and
he's nailed it. It's been brilliant.
Then you go to the Australian team internationally and the
difference there. So I go back to that.
(06:46):
I was very lucky because when I took over there, Australian
cricket W Australia was in a crisis mode as well, right?
There were, there'd been a few things going on and they that
needed some sorting out. So I did that apprenticeship and
then of course Sandpaper Gate happened and that was like whoa.
But I would not be talking to you 2 right now.
(07:08):
If I hadn't had, I'd be dead by now.
I would literally have had a heart attack and died of stress
by now. But luckily I had seven years
apprenticeship doing the West Australian job, going to
Sandpipergate and then of courseCOVID hit.
So we had Sandpipergate where all of Australia, Australia,
they hated the cricket team because Australia believe that
(07:32):
you guys are we're convicts and all that sort of shit.
I hear from the Barmy Army, but but one thing you don't do in
Australia, you don't cheat. You play hard and you go hard
and you compete, but you don't cheat.
And the boys cheated, right? So and the whole of Australia
really turned against them and the ramifications were huge.
We lost the chairman, ended the CEO, ended the high performance
(07:55):
manager, ended the the head coach, Darren Lehman finished
the captain and the vice captain.
So all your leadership is gone and ultimately in cultures or in
life, leadership is the number one aspect of performance in my
opinion. So that had all left.
So that then became what I'd sayabout a more what we talk about
(08:18):
cultures, about behaviours, about expectations, and we had
to turn that around. And then I go, well, I'm talking
a lot, sorry. But then you go to franchise
cricket and frankly I'm just learning franchise cricket.
Cricket I'd three years break from coaching after the
Australian team got invited to coach at the in the IPL and now
(08:38):
the Hundreds. So I'm just getting my head
around it. But they're very, very different
beasts, there's no question about that.
Jo, you mentioned, I think just before we we started 2019, you
had a nice time in Manchester having dinner with Sir Alex
Ferguson. So what the sort of key tips
that must have been amazing. But I'm sure he talked a lot of
leadership and all of us in England, obviously he's hold on
(09:00):
such a a pedestal. That must have been pretty cool.
Was mate, we, we just had Michael Vaughan organised it for
us. Actually I was at, I was, he's
good mates with Gilly and Vonniesaid I was, I was commentating
for the no actually I was coaching, sorry.
Of course I was still ever in Adelaide the year before for the
Test series and Vonnie was thereand we're talking about and I
(09:23):
said something about Alex Ferguson.
He said why you, you admire Alexfirst said are you kidding me
mate? I've got his book on my desk at
the Wacker. But it's Alex Ferguson mate,
he's the king and I don't even really follow football to be
honest. And he said would you like to
meet him? I said what do you mean?
He goes, yeah, I'll organise, I'll organise you a meeting if
(09:44):
you like and say whatever anyway.
And it was arranged. There was the Ben Stokes,
obviously the miracle match, theunbelievable victory that you
guys had. So we're literally the worst day
of my coaching career that night.
I've never been in a darker place in my life than after that
innings. And then we were due the day
(10:07):
before that Test match, the 4th Test at Old Trafford.
That was when I was had planned to meet Sir Alex Ferguson.
So we go there. I went there with Steve War, who
was over with us and Sir Alex Ferguson and his best mate and
another another guy. And the first we went to is a
favorite Italian restaurant in in, up in Manchester lunchtime.
(10:32):
And we were meant to train at 3:00, right?
As it turned out, I didn't go totraining the day before the 4th
test. I did not go to training.
So I kept talking to Alex Ferguson.
It was so flippin 'cause to ringin our assistant 'cause I'm not
coming. You guys organised the last day
before. It's a good one.
Huh. It was good wine.
Well, just in case I got there, I stayed off the wine broiler.
(10:53):
And I know you love wine. If it was a dinner date, I
reckon we would have had an evenbetter time.
But oh mate. But the first thing he says, we
walk in and within 30 seconds ofmeetings to Alex Ferguson,
right, We're just standing in the foyer waiting to go to
house. He goes.
Just remember, son, truth works.I said, pardon, he goes, truth
(11:13):
works, always tell the truth. And I thought, fact, there's my
next tattoo. How cool is that?
Truth works. And then we, we, that was his
first Pearl of wisdom. And then he there was a couple
of others that he shared with me.
One was when we lose, the first thing I would always do is I
would always go and sit in my office and I'd ask myself a
(11:36):
simple, what could I have done different as the coach.
He said what most people do is they said he should have done
that, he should have done that, she should have done that, he
should. And they point it for everyone
else. But the first thing you gotta do
is ask yourself, you're the leader, what you could have done
different and then go from there.
Great advice. So truth works.
Analyse what you can do before you point fingers to everything
(11:57):
everyone else. And then he's telling me some
other great advice. But then he talked about the
media, how he used to deal with the media.
He was legend with the media andmake sure you tell the media
what they what you want them to hear, not what they want you to
tell them. Great advice, not all that.
And then the last thing was brilliant, he said.
We often worry about cutting players from our team and in
(12:18):
that is a very cut throat business, right?
The EPL, we always worry about cutting people and especially
the stars from our team. But if they don't fit into your
culture, if they don't fit into your expectations, you've got to
cut them right. But then he said what most
people do is they worry, or whatif they go and be a star
somewhere else? Or what if they come back and
(12:40):
they play a good game against you?
But he said this is the clinch clincher.
He said if you cut them, you've only got to think about them for
two days of the year. You have to think about them
every day of the year. And there's people in your team
you think about every day of theyear.
They drive you flippin mad. They don't keep you awake at
night. So he said cut them.
You've only got to worry about them two days when you play
(13:01):
against them. And then you can do something
to, you know, you can do something to stop them kicking a
goal or whatever. And it's great advice we often
get so caught up in holding ontobecause worry about what they
might do somewhere else. Don't I?
And it's as a coach, you've got to get the right people.
And if you haven't got the rightpeople, eventually you got to
cut them. And when you do, it's like a sea
(13:22):
breeze through the whole organization.
That's great advice. I wasn't going to bring it up
actually Stokes his innings in 2019, but as you mentioned it,
we'll have a little chat about it.
Was that one of the now you, theemotions gone a bit of being the
coach? Was that one of the best knocks
you've seen in Test match cricket?
Oh, but, and it's really interesting because we got a, we
had you mob 9 down and I remember we're all, I think it
(13:45):
was 70. They need 70 to win still.
Yeah, some. Yeah, 70. 8 And I remember we're
all cock a hoop like where everyone's up in the change room
and everyone's all happy and youknow, you know, this is about to
put beer on ice. And I said, and I remember, I
say that all that coach, I said,boys, until Stokes is out, this
is not over. And they're going and they're
going here, whatever coach, you're an idiot.
(14:06):
I said, trust me, until Stokes is out, this is not over.
I think Josh had been run out. So we go, fuck, how good is
that? So we're on a you got run out,
didn't you, Josh? Yeah, Stokes around me.
I'd have, I'd have knocked him off but Stokes around me.
Yeah, well, that's the thing. So I thought if I'm going to go
through some misery, you can go through some misery for this few
minutes for not being the hero. OK.
I remember when you got run out,it was one of the greatest.
(14:27):
I've never felt happier in my life because I thought you were
the one who was going to 1. Bloke is going to destroy us.
So I saw the back of you, so I said beauty.
So I'm starting to feel a bit confident.
But nine down, 70 runs and then that innings.
Oh my God, he just kept smackinghim.
And then there's a, we did this documentary called the test.
(14:49):
It was on Amazon and it was on that, you know, that series.
And there's a scene and we, we were allowed to talking about
values and culture. I was allowed to look at some of
the final cuts. And I remember I was at the
front of my house and the producer or director rings me.
He goes, what do you think? I said, there's one scene in
the, in this documentary that you cannot put in.
(15:10):
You've got to cut out, he said, which I said when Nathan Lyon
missed that run out from Ben Stokes, he said, what do you
mean? I said because I kicked the bin.
I I kicked around, booted the bin and there's buddy bottles
going everywhere and there's bottle and I said you gotta cut.
People think I'm a flippin psycho, He said yeah, but you
(15:30):
see what you did next? I said what do you do?
Nathan Lyon? It was like throwing a piece of
baby misses this run out. What do you mean what I did
next? It was the easiest bin of thing.
He said you picked up all the bottles, mate.
I said what do you mean I pickedup all the buzz.
You're gonna look at the scene. He said one of your guys values
after Samba. It was humility.
You kicked the bin, there's shiteverywhere and you picked up all
(15:52):
the bottles and put them back inthe bin with three runs to get.
And it was funny because a lot of people watched the
documentary said, mate, what about when you kick the bin and
then picked up all the bottles? So there you go.
But yeah, it was an unbelievable, unbelievable
innings. And you know, I say then it was,
I'll get back to Ben Stokes in asecond because what happened
next? But I remember that night, I was
(16:15):
in a room by myself and my missus, my I was Facetimed my
wife back in Australia, she goes, what are you doing?
I said, I'm drinking. She goes, you drink, What are
you drinking? So I'm drinking Scotch And she
said you don't drink. I said, fuck, I'd do tonight,
baby. I was sitting in my room
drinking. Scott was the literally the
(16:36):
lowest moment of my whole probably cricket career.
I could not. But as a as a coach, I could not
because that's the Ashes there. And then.
It was just the way it happened.It's like, oh man, it was, yeah,
it was an and it was people. That's great for the game and
all this sort of shit, but that wasn't great for my soul that
night. You know, you Alex Ferguson
(16:57):
thing, you know, what would you do differently?
Like as I think you might made didn't you watch it back and
stuff and like what would you have done differently in that?
Or is it just one of those days?There was just a miracle.
That and Stokes, he was too good.
Yeah, good question. I think because we what a lot of
people don't remember, you remember Jos and Brodie that the
(17:20):
night before that game is the Stokes's bowling spell.
No one remembers that. No one talks about remember.
I think I think Joff had gone off with cramp or something in
his leg and Stokes, he just bowled and bowled and bold and
they're getting to the point going, mate, come on.
Like you can't keep going. And then he got he got Matthew
(17:42):
Wade out right. So we were flying.
We were four down or whatever. Matthew had been playing.
Well, he got Matthew aid. I think he bought him a bounce
or a court behind or something. So that drags Tim Pine out when
the sort of we were cruising andthen he got Tim Pine out.
So all of a sudden we're 6 down or 7 down or whatever and no one
(18:03):
ever talks about this. The Stokes bowling the day
before, before his innings. So what, what would I do, dear?
I, I think that was a really significant part that there's
always those moments. That's if it's, if it's 100
cricket or Test cricket, there'salways significant moments,
right? And then we always talk about
staying calm under pressure, stay calm, stay calm, stay calm.
(18:27):
What we would have done and we were terrible at our referrals
and we were just did never got it right and we had to get a
process in place for our referrals and then panicking or
under pressure remember we referred that LBW.
Affleche, yeah. Affleche that right and it was
missing by Mars and miss sittingup in the box going mate, like
(18:47):
seriously. And then there was the LBW from
Ben Stokes, which is plum. It literally pitched middle hit
middle and the umpire gave it not out.
We didn't have any referrals left.
So I think staying cool under pressure is his number one and
and clenching those big moments.And the night before for me was
(19:09):
as big a moment as the the final, you know, the miracle
innings. Now I remember that actually, I
remember thinking you could haveput the game to bed made
AS470500 because and it just kept getting out in different
ways. Remember Lychee bowled one
through the gate to Harris and just as we were getting flat, we
got a wicket and it was definitely that feeling.
(19:30):
So it gave us something with theability to chase.
We mentioned the Amazon Dark England Cricket I think have
turned down different things at times to get inside the ropes,
so to speak, inside the walls ofthe change room.
Is that something you enjoyed it?
Did you like having that that visibility or as a coach you'd
just prefer to to do your own thing?
Well, first I had no idea we're doing it.
(19:51):
I did my press conference in it when I was appointed to the
Australian cricket role. I flew to Melbourne from Perth
and I had to be back, so I had acommitment that I had to be back
for the next day. So I fly there, get in the taxi
on the way from the Melbourne Hotel where we did the press
conference to the airport, and there's this dude sitting in the
(20:14):
cab next to me with a camera andhe's asking me all these
questions. I thought it must have just been
for another interview to save time to.
Da, da, da, da, and go on the Cricket Australia website or
whatever. Anyway, no stress, thought
nothing of it. Then we come to England for that
first one day series when I was coach and the same dude rocks up
on the plane. I'm going, what are you doing
(20:34):
here? He goes, I'm doing the
documentary. I said what are you talking
about? He goes, yeah, we're doing a
documentary on you for the next 12 months or 18 months.
I had no idea, no idea. And then I got back from England
and then I knew about this documentary and he was there.
It was good though 'cause he was, he's a stand up comic as
well. We had one cameraman did the
(20:54):
whole documentary. It was bizarre.
And he was a stand up comic as his other profession.
So every single he became part of the family and every day he
did a joke of the day for us. But he had, and that was for 18
months. I don't know how this is a, this
is a cool skill, right? He would come up with a joke
every flippin day. So he'd become better and he'd
(21:15):
film every waking moment. So we get home from the first
series and I literally start getting anxiety because I'm
thinking, fuck, what are they going to put in this document?
I know they're doing it. And then you think about some of
the stuff you talk about, some of the things you say, I'm
going, Oh my God, like, how are we going to get portrayed?
And he was with us for 18 months, literally every day for
(21:36):
18 months. And as it turned out, the
documentary was a great success.But there was, there was anxious
moments. And I'd also, as good a bloke as
he was, the day he stopped it was like the whole world was
off. I'm not sure, however, else I
can only speak for myself. The whole world was up our
shoulders because you could justbe normal again.
(21:57):
Yeah, I get that. I.
Thought there'd be like more production than just one guy.
That's quite amazing. No one.
It's unbelievable. One cameraman did the whole
thing and then they send all thevision back to Melbourne or
whatever and they produced what was a great, it's amazing.
I was at the Lord's the other day and we're as we're throwing
some balls before the game and Ireckon four or five English kids
(22:20):
and all separate said, ah, I sawyou in the documentary, I saw
you in the test. And then you go to India.
Holy shit. I reckon 1 billion Indians have
watched the documentary. They loved it.
Honestly, mate, they all, they can recite stuff that happened
in the documentary. So from that point of view was
positive. But actually at the time it was,
(22:41):
yeah, it was intrusive, but it'sthe way the world we live in now
isn't. I mean, some of the some of the
docko's on the different sports are awesome to watch.
So it's just the way of the world, I guess.
I love that bit where David Warner's trying to get the, the,
you know, in Sri Lanka, the bottles of water have the
plastic and you can't get him off the, the lid and he's got
out and he's trying to get this bottle of water.
(23:02):
I've done that 1000 times. Just cannot get that bit of
plastic off that bottle. But when you've just got out and
you frustrated, he throws the bottle of water.
That really made me smile. I love seeing batters get angry
when they get out. Oh, it's pretty funny, is it?
Yeah. No worries, mate.
Oh, yeah. Good on you.
Oh, you love seeing it, do you? Yeah, yeah.
No worries. I was going to say for all that
you've achieved in your career and everyone knows you for now,
(23:22):
kicking a bin in an Amazon dock.No, no picking the bottles up
mate. Just picking.
Them up. Yeah, that's the good bit.
So you're going from there and Iwas worried.
I think I think I'm a psycho. But then pick them up and
because you feel but it's like getting angry when you get out
broadly like I was hot. I was no good at it right.
I used to get I used to get grumpy as and it's the the
(23:43):
things you regret about in life.I've been getting grumpy when
you get out. I still regret some of it.
I bet you at the time it's like you're a little kid.
You know when you're a little kid playing cricket and you get
your brother gets you out and you wanna keep batting well, you
go to a Test match or and you just wanna keep batting.
I've been practising all this time I'm in front of a big crowd
I fucking love. I'm living the dream here and
you're telling me I've got a it's a big knob like you gets me
(24:05):
out. I'm gonna walk off one you're
laughing at me and give me a send off.
Then I've got to sit there and go, oh, fuck this.
Most seriously. Like getting out is no good.
It's like losing. Yeah, no good.
I remember doing I was 12th man for so you Jo, you were my
captain obviously when I first started at Somerset and I played
maybe a couple of games and you actually made my debut when you
(24:27):
missed out injured. But in the next game you came
back and I was 12th man and JackChantry got you out.
Do you remember Jack Chantry, a left arm sema from Worcester?
And they had these like sliding doors in the pavilion at
Somerset and as JLS got out, they're like youngster, go and
shut the doors. I'm like, what?
He's he's going to go wild here.Absolutely.
(24:48):
What? So I've got to jump up, shut
these doors and you're going around the dressing room going
I've faced them all. Wazi Mackram, show him back to
Wacky and you get out to Jack fucking Shantry and I reckon the
whole ground is like looking up at the pavilion game.
Well, if Jack Shantry's listen to this, I'm sorry, buddy.
(25:11):
I don't mean like, you know, it's just emotion at the time.
But it's funny you say that justbecause that they used to have a
silver bin in the, you know, oneof those silver's that you step
on. And it was a real tall silver in
the Taunton dressing room and I kicked it or smashed it one day.
Anyway, I rang. I got as soon as I went.
Well, what have you done, you idiot?
Like you always do. I rang my missus who was with, I
(25:34):
said, babe, you got to go to, I don't know, Max's or somewhere
and you've got to buy this silver bin.
So she walked into the ground after with a brand new silver
because I felt so bad that I'd smashed the bin in the in the
thing. It's funny though, 'cause it's,
it's funny talking to you 2 now,because you're right, Josh, you
made your debut when I, I can't remember, I missed the game and
(25:55):
you made your debut And I, I remember meeting your family
that day when you made your a Boo that which was awesome.
And, and broadly I remember and I'm not sure what ashes it was,
but you bowled to us as a net bowler right at Leicester.
At 2005, yeah. 2000 It was a 2005.
OK, I thought it was. Anyway, so Brody bowls to us in
the Nets. Joss, as a net bowler this year.
(26:17):
You How old were you in 2518? Well, 18 this big gangly kid,
blonde hair. Probably had earrings then, did
you? And you know, look a bit of a
holy and anybody come in and we were all going and we're so
nice. I thought hopefully we're really
nice. Yeah.
It's brilliant, brilliant experience, man.
This kid can bowl, right? And then you played against,
there was an injury or something.
You played the next game, right?Got to get 5 for in that game
(26:39):
against us. Yeah, I saw I bowled the day
before as a netball, you know, you get the opportunity to come
and bowl the Aussies like yeah, absolutely.
You bowl for like a couple of hours and then someone went down
and I played the next day for Leicestershure.
We we borrowed. Did we borrow Chris Rogers off
you as well or we put out sort of a team?
I remember I got Gilchrist, I think.
(26:59):
Did I get Gilchrist through the gate?
And then Brett Lee? I was absolutely buzzing.
Like that was Dreamworld for me.Yeah, so it's funny this, the
beautiful thing about the game is I see you tell you guys as
kids, the end of my career, and then you watch it all develop
and they'll be sitting on a podcast.
Now. That's what I love about the
game of cricket, right? So after the when I we talked
(27:19):
about being in North London, I stayed with a guy by the name of
Nigel Ray, who for a long time still is to a degree involved
with the Saracens. And he's like my second father,
second family now. And after this I went to his
daughter Lucy's wedding in Biarritz 12 years ago.
And the first week of September I'm going to their son's wedding
in France as well, like, you know, in a couple of weeks time.
(27:42):
So it's so cool how the game of cricket offers you the
opportunity to meet mates and we're and we're commentating
right broadly this this summer, right?
Yeah. And but you are going to have so
much fun. You are going to with the seven
crew. And it's just, yeah, I just love
how it all comes together with this really fortunate, the game
of cricket that we've all been able to play.
(28:02):
And Jack Shantry, I think, is now umpiring in the hundreds.
So the London spirits are going to get hit on the surfboards and
away they go. Thanks for coming.
Oh nice. Seven LBW is coming your way
hopefully, but. There's a couple of them.
There's a couple of umpires serious over here right there,
I've just noticed in the 100, somaybe one of them is Jack
Chandry. I can't remember.
Jack No. He's got your number.
(28:22):
That's why all those years ago. See there, that's try the
fucking wolf finger UPS. It's like Blackie.
I was always petrified of it when Blackie became a, Ian
Blackwell became a umpire because, Oh my God, any team I
was coaching, the finger would have been straight up over and
over just. Still to come, we'll ask JL
(28:42):
about the 2005 Ashes 20 years on.
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(29:03):
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Yeah, I like a glass of wine. Keep the Stewart Broad wine.
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(29:23):
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(29:47):
20 years ago was the 05 Ashes was that Was that probably the
most exposure you'd seen in a ina Test match series?
That was an unbelievable advertisement for Test cricket
2005. And what a series.
I remember getting on the plane on the way home first.
I remember watching all the celebrations after and and that
(30:08):
because we were at that time, wewere a great time.
My gosh. I mean, you had Gilly at 7,
Bawney and McGrath, Ponting. Hey, Doss, you know what, what a
what a team it was and to lose it, that really stung us.
But I remember getting off on the plane on the way and it was
(30:28):
like almost fair. I'll say this with absolute
respect, but it was like swimming into a tidal wave for
six weeks. Because when you get when and
it'll be the same for England I'm sure in Australia, but over
here, if England start getting on top of you, you guys start
getting on top of us. It is relentless, the media, the
(30:49):
crowds, it is, it is exhausting.And that series particularly and
then then you, I was with, I waswith Fraser Stewart last night.
I played golf with him, who's from the MCC, and he said it was
the greatest day of his life. That too, that that when the KP
innings, Kevin Peterson innings.And that day was the best day of
(31:10):
his life. And he talked about it in his
wedding speech. He was telling me that that was
the this is the second best day of my life.
The best day of my life was whenKevin Peterson got 100 against
the Aussies and they ended up winning the Test series.
So yeah, mate, it was an, it was, that was Test cricket at
its greatest and it was intense and it was hard and it was, it
(31:31):
was brilliant. And Warner is greatest as well.
And like, what an entertainer hewas in that series.
Best thing I ever did in my cricket career was play create
with Shane Warne and mainly whenyou had him and McGraw you won
most games, like the very few games.
And it was funny though because,and I was talk about this last
(31:52):
night as well with Fraser Stewart about his greatest
memory. Mine was when Warner dropped KP
for Naughty and it you round us up 'cause you know KP and
morning they were the 2 rock stars and they'd go to concerts
together and they'd be seeing Chris Martin together and they'd
go shopping and they got Gucci bags together and they got Prada
I can sunglasses together and they're on the front pages.
(32:14):
They're all best mates. And then he dropped in for
Naughty and we go, oh, here we go.
And then that, that was close tothe best innings I've ever seen
in my life under pressure. And like, Brett Lee was bowling
quick and there was KP might, I'm sure he does remember this.
But KP just before lunch got hitsomewhere and it was like a
(32:36):
football player going down. I was like, oh mate, because he
wanted to take a bit of time off.
So he got to lunch. It was like bees, Aussie bees
swat 'cause he's only have aboutfour.
I ran from deep backwards, square leg, fine leg ran down.
We're already coming. You get up you bubby, Ba ba ba,
ba, ba ba ba ba ba mate soft. Get on with it.
(32:57):
And we gave it to him. This kid with the bloody funny
hair and shit, we gave it to him.
That was the good. That was the old days of mate
full blown. Well, I love the word sledge,
you know, but mate, it was and then he came out.
Holy shit. He hit a shot of Brett Lee.
He pulled a ball of Brett, whoseball and quit Binger was fire
(33:20):
and he pulled him back through mid on.
I was like took your breath away.
Then he started hooking and they're going miles.
You're getting top edges. Then he's hitting in the middle
and they're going further and further.
That was an and stood up on those balls and hit through
backward point and threw the covers off the bat, mate, that
was an unbelievable innings. Yeah, great, great series.
(33:42):
Brody, I've. Watched that DVD 05 about 1000
times. You've actually just inspired me
to watch it again. I think that's my afternoon.
Yeah, that's why. I've never watched it.
I'm not watching it. What was what was different
about that England team? Like you obviously played
against a lot of England sides and going into that series,
obviously you say you're part ofthe greatest Australian team or
(34:04):
one of them. At that point, you probably
fully expected to win, but expecting.
A great question. Was there something different?
Yeah, momentum, confidence, and that's why I was fascinated.
We'll talk about the, the upcoming Ashes, but I, I thought
this was a big series for England versus India going into
the Australian, which is coming up.
(34:25):
So, but the reason I say that isI remember really clearly
England were having great success leading up to it.
You know, they were winning. They were winning and they came
confident, right? And I, I was the fortunate one.
It's it's really interesting because, and I watched Zach
Crawley the last Ashes here. I love watching the first ball
(34:47):
of the Ashes and remember Zach Crawley pumped that that drive.
The Aussies had a really strangefield setting from ball one of
the Ashes and he pumped that cover drive the wash.
OK, it's on here. But the reason I say that the
very first ball I faced against Harmison in that test series.
So and, and you guys have lived it and I only saw it first hand
(35:08):
from a spectator's point of view.
Last see, I was here for the Test match and it goes silent,
you know, the first ball of the Test match at Lords like nowhere
else in the whole world. Everywhere else the the noise
goes the other way. Like people are sort of getting
louder as the ball around it goes silent.
And I was facing the ball going,so what's happening?
(35:30):
Because everything went completely silent.
Anyway, Palmerston balled the first ball of that series and it
flew past my nose and Geraint Jones took it above his head.
And I remember the couple of things happened.
Whoever was feeling it, back pads walking towards me, the guy
at points walking towards me, the slips was like everyone was
walking towards me as if to say fuck it's on here and remember
(35:52):
Haydos walking down and go mate,be sharp little fella, they're
on here. After the first ball of the
Ashes they are on here and I went, Oh yeah, no worries.
And the next ball, the second ball hit me on the elbow and it
like blew up like a tennis ball.And I don't like because
everyone thinks, you know, opening batters are tough and
stuff, but I actually didn't feel it.
(36:13):
But I had I had this massive, itmust have been a blood vessel.
And I literally had a tennis ball on my elbow, but I didn't
feel like there was nothing. But I sort of played it up a bit
because I think, oh dude, how tough's he?
Like he's still batting, right? But that was the second ball.
And then I don't know if you remember Haydos got hit on the
helmet in that first spell. I've never seen Matthew Hayden
(36:35):
get hit on the head once. Haydos get hit on the helmet and
then Punter got hit under the eye and he's bleeding under the
eye and he's still got the scar today, right?
This all happened in the first hour of it was the best hour of
cricket I've ever seen. That was the first session.
So my point was just that England, they were up and about
(36:57):
that mate, you could feel it. It was this mindset.
And then we ended up winning that Test in 2 1/2 days, right?
But England still that, you know, they still had the OK,
they've beaten to see, but the and then they and then McGrath
stepped on the ball and then, but England had that mindset.
They had that killer instinct and we knew it.
We could feel it. Freddie was on fire, Freddy's
(37:19):
the been the top three bowlers Iever faced in my life and he was
on and you know, the momentum was building then.
England had a good fast bowling attack, they played well.
So yeah, I think that's what it was, momentum, confidence
leading into this and they had that that killer instinct that
we are taking it to the Aussies and they did.
OK folks, in a moment we'll ask Justin for his take on Bassball
(37:43):
right after this. The business of cricket is
powered by Sage, the official accounting software partner of
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(38:03):
visit sage.com. We're delighted to welcome
Julian Wood too. For the love of cricket.
Julian, tell us what you do and how it all started.
My business is the JW Cricket Academy, but I'm probably known
sort of for in the cricketing world as power hitting.
The power hitting man, Really. How did you develop this into a
(38:24):
business? A good friend of mine went to
live in the States. He introduced me on the back of
this. He introduced me to a guy called
Scotty Cobra, who was the hitting coach for the Texas
Rangers. I spent a week with the Texas
Rangers, which was really cool. But one thing these guys did,
they hit the ball seriously hard.
And they were different. They were built differently and
then I came back and Graham Thorpe was the England batting
(38:47):
coach and it must have looked a bit dodgy.
I met him in a car park, sewed in this stuff and he went wow
this is like this is quite ground breaking.
The hundreds on at the minute tell us some of the players
you've worked with and is it a challenge batting in a different
format? Someone like Liam Livingston,
Livi hits the ball hard, right? And you get players who hit the
ball hard. I won't make them hit the ball
(39:08):
hard because they hit it hard. And I look at these guys, I look
at how I can make their miss hits better with the power
hitting side of it in the obviously the hundred, you know,
boundaries are massive. Now it's all about it's, it's
boundary counts. T20 cricket now every six you
hit gives you 3 dots, every fouryou hit gives you 2 dots.
So it sort of creates time. What are the main challenges you
(39:31):
face in running this as a business?
OK. So with the, with the business,
right, the power hitting system,it's, it's like a brand, right?
I've got it's, I've got a reallystrong brand, right?
Which it is, but I'm the brand. So me setting up three different
venues doesn't work because they, well, hang on a minute,
(39:52):
Where's Woody? So, but that's the life of a
freelance coach, you see. So it's, but I quite enjoy it.
I, I enjoy that buzz a bit. It gives me a real buzz.
Best of luck with your business,Julian.
What do you think about the series coming up in Australia?
Always tough to go away, as you've talked about.
You arrive in England, the momentum, the the feeling that
the crowd are on you. What do you get?
(40:14):
The sense of this series coming away, how the team shaping up.
And this will probably make a headline but I'll ride it so
I'll I'll claim it anyway. But I just wonder England to, to
win in Australia. Like if you look at the two
teams at the moment, 1 Australiaare grappling with the top
three. And that's rare for an
(40:35):
Australian cricket team. They are grappling and that's,
you know, I never want to go into a big series not knowing
who your top three are. And at the moment Australia are
grappling with that. That's just reality.
I mean, they've they've sort of they brought Sam Constance in
last year as the talk of the town and then they didn't play
him in Sri Lanka and then they played him then they played him
(40:56):
in really tough conditions in inWest Indies recently.
Australia beat the a very a weakWest Indian team which and a
whole podcast in itself, but. I don't think George Bailey even
knows what the top three is. I don't think anyone knows what
the top three will be. No, see, we see in my view now
they, they and I don't have to worry about.
The hardest thing about coachingthe Australian cricket team is
(41:18):
selecting it because you can't win, right?
And, and I learned within a few months, because if I pick
whoever from Victoria, I should have picked him from NSW, I
picked him from New South. There's a real thing that I'm
sure there must be parts that over here in England, but it's
really hard. And but I Australia, they, they,
they bought Cameron Green at #3 at for and he did well.
(41:42):
And I think they have to stick with him there.
They have to stick with him because he did well.
He is probably the, you know, inreally tough conditions in West
Indies, he did well. So they probably and whether if
he starts bowling again, that's he's he had that operation on
his back. He had the stress fraction in
his back. He had the operation in New
Zealand. He's starting to bowl again.
(42:05):
So that'll be a big bonus if they got to you know, him and by
Webster playing. But I think they've got to play
Cameron Green AT3I. I honestly they've got to find a
spot for Manus Labour, Shane. Agreed.
With his experience with his andhe'll work it out.
I mean, he's had a little break from the game.
I think he got a bit defensive in his game.
(42:27):
He's aware of that. But he's had played fifty tests
now that he's got to be in there.
So but but how they're going to mix this up?
Fascinating. But that one point I make is
that not being secure in their top three coming to the Ashes is
an area that I'm sure England are going to be licking their
lips at at the moment. Second, England's batting is
(42:51):
mate, there's there's some talent there, right?
But they're up against you. You, you know, you could say.
One of the best groups of all time.
In of all time, Yeah, of all time.
And, and I think Nathan Lyon, I said it in the the Ashes here
when Nathan Lyon went down for that, that was the end of the
series because he's the missing link.
The, the one area that England at the moment don't seem to have
(43:14):
a like our top 3 is a, is a spinbowler.
And in Australia you must have aspin bowler.
And the temptation always is to come to Australia and play 4
quicks because you'll see the wicket.
But you must to win in Australiamust, in my opinion, from
watching a lot of cricket, you must have a spin bowler who's
going to at the, at the very least hold up and in for the
(43:36):
quicks. Yeah.
And if you do what Lion? And I didn't realise Lion,
Nathan Lyon was so good until I started coaching the Australian
cricket. And he is a gun.
He is a gun cricketer because he's hard to fight, he's hard to
score off and he takes wickets and he gets the bounce in
Australia. So to not to sit on the fence.
I I think it's going to be a really, really close series.
(44:00):
I'd go back to that point. My question for England will be,
have you got the killer instinctto finish off a series?
If you get a chance, and I've seen it, you know, the two all
here, last Ashes series 2, all against India.
When I think India, you know, itwas a good series, but England
had the chances to win that series.
Have you got the killer instinctto win the Ashes in Australia?
(44:23):
That's going to be the big question.
I think a little advantage for for England, throw my tour and
Crips always the Gabba first up,you're sort of arriving in
Australia's home. It's aggressive their record.
They're thinking the last one inwe'll last got a result one in
8680, seven, 2010 when we went and won there, we got a draw and
we're absolutely thrilled with getting out of the Gabba.
(44:44):
There's first Test, isn't there?It's at the Optus in purse.
I think that's a little bit of apsychological advantage for for
England because that that you'renot in Brisbane, then you go
back there for a pink ball, which I think the Aussies will
win the pink ball Stark and the bowlers are just so good with
it. So England have to get a result
out Perth. That's how I see it.
They have to go in, play the best bowling attack, play their
(45:05):
best team and just go all out for the for the win at Perth and
hit the Aussies hard. Because I think you're right,
that top three, if you could play Wood, Archer, Atkinson,
Stokes and Bashir at that top three, break into them, then
then the series is alive. But if Australia win the 1st,
it's always, it's always a long,long way back, I think.
(45:26):
It's a really good point about the Brisbane Test.
It's all, it was always a cauldron for us and it has been
for and then it's no longer the first Test there and we like we
lost to India a couple of seriesago, Richard Pant play that
incredible innings at the Gabba.But it was the 4th Test during
COVID and it was the flattest wicket.
(45:46):
But at that time of the year in January, it was different than
playing in November. So you're right.
And and we've lost that advantage.
I think that said the Gabba, youknow, and it could you're right.
If Archers playing, if Woods playing, then yeah, that'll be a
that'll be a big opportunity. But that whacker wicket also
(46:08):
England have going to have to, you know, there's the Optus
wicket. Sorry, there's still, it's just
like playing at the old Wacker, good pace, good bounce.
How do you see England? How do you see like England
style in the way they bat and stuff going in Australia?
Obviously everyone always seems to be sceptical of baseball and
stuff, but. Well, what I believe, and I've
(46:31):
believed this forever and, and Ialways go back on, the only
players who had success against Warren and McGrath were those
who attacked them, who had the courage to attack them, right?
They got back in their face and they hated it because no one did
it right. And they're the two of the
greatest, they're the 2 greatestI played with.
So in you have to, you have to have that mindset, but you've
(46:53):
got to have that mindset and they've got to have that killer
mindset to go into it. That said, I was only talking to
Ollie Pope about it. I Remember Remember when Nathan
Lyon heard his calf muscle at Lords the last series here, and
I remember sitting, I was sitting with people watching.
I said that's the end of the series.
That's the that's series done. They said what he must say.
(47:15):
He's so important. I'd said the the missing link of
the this series is Nathan Lyon, because he's the one.
He's a gun. He goes down.
And then that next two hours of batting was the dumbest batting
I've ever seen in my life. I nearly walked out of Lords as
a cricket tragic. It was the dumbest batting I've
ever seen in my that was the moment.
(47:35):
And I know the Test went close and that, you know, there was
the, the Alex Carey incident andall that sort of stuff later in
the Test, but that two hours andAustralia started bouncing
England and blokes are running down and they're trying to hook.
And Poppy said to me the other day, I tried to pull 1 and got
caught at square leg. That was the moment.
(47:55):
That was the moment right then, so.
Could have drilled him into the ground.
Could have got. A huge lead.
That was it, 100% broadly right.I was feeling it, don't worry, I
was feeling it in the change room.
Yeah, I bet you guys were. I bet that you know, So that was
a really important moment. So go back to your point about,
you know, call it Baz ball or the aggressive approach.
I think England must play that approach in Australia, no
(48:18):
question, because they'll put pressure back on the great.
But that's going to take couragebecause you got stock bowling
like he does. Hazelwood never misses the spot.
Pat comers is there is, you know, is a generational bowler.
So it's going to take great courage.
But if they can, that's the bestchance, as we saw in the back
half of the last Ashes series here, then that's going to be
the best chance. So yeah, I, I love the, I love
(48:42):
the approach, the positive approach.
And England, now that's to the to.
And Poppy said it to me the other day.
They're two years more experience.
They know that they've got a can't just be all that attack
all the time, but they've got toget that balance right.
No, it's, it's, I'm really excited about the series.
You know, it's just not often anEngland team goes to Australia
(49:03):
and you think, oh, is there, is there a chance here because
Australia have been so dominant in their own conditions?
It's it's really exciting. Thanks, Joe, Thanks for your
time so much. We know you're you're a busy
man. I just one bit of advice I need.
I'm joining you on the seven commentary team in Australia.
How do I survive as a pomp? Oh, especially you, Brody.
(49:24):
They're going to throw you to the wolves.
You got one big advantage, Brody.
Now you're one of the brothers to.
I've got you and Haydos. Haydos, Ponting Katich.
Yeah. And no one messes with our
brothers, mate. So now you're in.
I remember John T Rhodes two years ago, John T Rhodes came
to. He commentated with us and he
(49:46):
kept saying, Oh my God, this. I've never seen anything like
this because we are literally like, we are literally like
brothers and it's the coolest. I said with all our South
African guys I know we never talk to each other.
We never see each other. We and you guys go out to dinner
every night. You have a beer every night, you
play golf together and it's it'sthe best.
That's why it's my favorite job of the year because for six
(50:08):
weeks I'm with my best mates. We're talking cricket.
The the great thing is you guys know just you will find out one
day is the the last ball of the game is bowl and then you're in
your jeans and your T-shirt and 20 minutes later you're back
having a beer. You'd have to think about the
game at all. When you're head coach, you
think about you don't sleep because you're thinking about
(50:29):
the game 24 hours a day. When you're a player, you're
always thinking about it. When you're a commentator, mate,
how cool is it? Last ball's bowled right?
Oh boys, where are we going for beer?
Oh. Jay, I've spent the last, I've
spent the last two years trying to tell people.
Commentary's hard. Mate, seriously, you are.
Now I know you're a bullshit artist because it is the best
(50:50):
job in the world. It's hard.
Like seriously, Yeah, maybe you've got to travel around the
country a bit. And.
And so don't worry, you have allthe brothers, all have the
Channel 7 brothers with your brother and anyone gives you a
hard time then. He's going to hold the day.
Before we wouldn't. We'd throw you out to the
wolves. Yeah, he is a knob.
The bloody pommy Knobby talks shit now.
(51:11):
No, no, don't talk. He's one of us now.
Because you're in Channel 7 Coventry box, mate.
You'll be fine. Don't worry.
That's gonna be great. I'm excited.
One of the brothers. You just joined the Brotherhood,
mate. Jose, why don't you come as
well? Let's just go as a group.
I think jail's just like reelingyour end and reeling your end.
You're going to get there all nice and comfy, Says he'll come
and pick you up at the airport, your land like nowhere to be
(51:33):
seen. Just he's told about 100 like
jobs to come and meet you. I'll be doing an interview on
Bay 13 at the MCG on Boxing Day.Yeah.
No, no, I say. That's where you'll love me.
That's where you'll. Love me.
Actually, I'm just about to sendJonesy and Jolie.
I'm going to send a message to them right now if you don't know
if I'm on air here, but I'm going to send it and saying I've
(51:54):
got this awesome idea. Let's get Audi Boxing Day Bay 13
do an interview. I'm doing it.
I'm all over it. I would love it as long as I can
have a beer in there. Yeah, well, Richie Ben, I used
to. I mean, now who was it?
Our Prime Minister, Bob Hawke. He went over there and he
sculled a pint of beer and they thought he was one of our most
popular prime ministers, went tobuy 13 and sculled a pint of
(52:17):
beer over there and they thoughthe was the greatest bloke of all
time. So there you go.
Copy that. Yeah, that's a good idea,
actually. Come up with some more good
ideas and you'll be right. Oh, brilliant, Jael, thanks so
much for your time and great to see you.
Great to hear from you and catchyou soon.
Great for the chat, see you guys.
That's it for this week. Thanks to our legendary guest
Justin Langat. And to our partners, Sage and
(52:37):
Late Weights. Please follow us on Instagram,
YouTube, and TikTok. And we'll see you next time.
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