November 19, 2025 • 59 mins
We sit down with Divine Martyr to trace their path from early singles to a focused full-length, and dig into how DIY recording, better live systems, and a democratic culture keep a symphonic metal band moving forward. From lineup changes to onstage save-the-show moments, the band shares practical lessons for musicians at any level.
• origin of Divine Martyr and Indianapolis roots
• lineup evolution and Cassandra stepping in on vocals
• Jason’s thrash-to-symphonic influences and home tracking
• Woody’s bass approach inspired by Ryan Martinie and Cliff Burton
• Mark’s classical percussion background and orchestration role
• building home studios to control cost and quality
• finding engineers who can mix dense symphonic layers
• pre-sale vs festivals and booking realities in the Midwest
• in-ears vs wedges, RF issues, and rehearsal strategies
• contingency plans for live tech failures and crowd management
• rehearsal cadence, stage spacing, and future choreography
• advice to new drummers on teachers, metronomes, and reading
• socials and where to find Divine Martyr’s music
Please do check out Divine Martyr, they’re an amazingly talented band. We will put a link on our socials to their information as well.
Thank you and please visit our social medial sites to leave feedback and or support our project.
https://franklinsgaragetostage.buzzsprout.com
https://franklinsgaragetostage.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob (00:29):
Hi, welcome to Franklin's Garage Estate podcast.
My name is Rob WardrumsFranklin, and my co-host is Dana
Thunderbass Franklin.
How are you doing, man?
I'm doing good.
Oh, I'm doing really well.
Getting cold here, but okay.
I always start the podcast witha quote, uh, inspirational
quotes.
That's either about music orjust life in general.
(00:50):
So today's quote is by GeorgeBernard Shaw.
It's progress is impossiblewithout change, and those who
cannot change their minds cannotchange anything.
And I think that applies tojust about anything life, music,
everything in general.
So, Dana, you want to introduceour guests today?
Dana (01:08):
I'd love to.
Hey, with us today from uhcoming from Indianapolis, where
I know it's cold and snowing,guys, so you appreciate the
appreciate the effort to makeit, is uh a band called Divine
Martyr.
So um if you guys will pleaseuh introduce yourself and you
know if one of you can tell us alittle bit about your band and
what kind of music you do, andjust let the new listeners know
(01:30):
what you're all about.
Rob (01:35):
Somebody somebody go ahead and take the lead there.
Jason (01:37):
How about how about you said we're Divine Martyr, we're
from Indy or kind of all aroundIndianapolis in the metro area.
Um band started in about 2015.
Um, the first iteration of itanyway, and and Mark and Woody
got together specifically withanother guitarist, started
(01:57):
writing some material.
Um I think they came into asinger, what, within the first
year or so, and then uh at somepoint that original guitarist
left, and that was about 2016,so that's about the time I
stepped in uh on guitar, and youknow, the the original lineup
kind of recorded you know someearly stuff.
(02:19):
Um I think we were what was ourfirst single?
Was it 2018, 17?
Gosh, I can't even remembernow.
Um later that summer, that thatwas right around New Year's.
Later that summer we recorded athreesong EP with that same
lineup, released that, and thenuh we've been through a few
(02:42):
lineup changes off and on sinceyou know 2018-2019.
Uh Cassandra came on board backin April of this year, I think.
And you know, we're we've beentrying to put together an album
for the last couple of years,just couldn't get a lot of
momentum, and we've already madea lot more progress just in the
(03:02):
last six months than than wehave in a while.
So we're pretty excited.
We've we've got sights on afull-length album here to come.
Rob (03:09):
Nice, nice.
Jason (03:10):
And uh yeah, so that kind of in a nutshell, uh kind of
that's the the uh the cliffnotes version of of the band
history, I guess, there.
But um, but yeah, my name'sJason.
I play guitar.
Uh, I've been playing for a lotof years.
Thir 35 years almost are comingup on that.
(03:31):
Um grew up on a lot of um 80sthrash metal, so I started on
Metallica and Anthrax and Slayerand that kind of stuff.
Okay, kind of gravitatedtowards some of the heavier
death metal in the early 90s, soI was big into that kind of
stuff, cannibal corpse, carcass,suffocation, you know, the
(03:51):
pretty extreme metal kind ofstuff.
That's that's the hard end,hardcore, and then really that's
like playing wise, that's stillkind of my roots, you know.
I still incorporate a lot ofthat kind of riffage and that
kind of stuff into even ourmusic.
You know, symphonic metal isvery different from that, but
you know, some of that kind ofplays into my writing still to
(04:12):
this day.
Um so from that point, kind ofgot more into Prague, started
listening to a lot of jazz andand classical orchestrated type
music as well, film scores.
Um, actually have had a biginfluence on on me.
I love Hans Zimmer and guyslike that that do some of the
modern film scores.
I think he's an incrediblecomposer, and uh he's had a
(04:34):
pretty good influence on me.
And then really in the early2000s, I kind of found Nightwish
and and Epica and Camelot andsome of that stuff, and that's
that's really kind of shaped myplaying and my writing really
for the last 20 years.
That's that's probably had thebiggest impact in that time
frame, and and really that'skind of brought me up to today.
So that's kind of my history.
(04:57):
I appreciate that, man.
Yeah, it's kind of evolved overtime, but we're really starting
to dial that in.
We're actually doing a lot moreof our own recording and
tracking and that sort of stuff.
So you know, I've I've learneda lot in the last couple of
(05:17):
years, and it also gives us alittle more control over that
final product, right?
So uh it's been a learningprocess, but it's it's been good
for us, and and uh like I said,we're we're looking forward to
to really getting the albumgoing.
We're we're well on our waynow.
The writing's there, a lot ofthe tracking's done, and it's
just kind of putting somefinishing touches on some
(05:38):
things.
So it's really coming along.
We're excited.
Rob (05:41):
Cool.
Well, let's stick with thestrings.
Woody, you want to tell usabout you?
Woody (05:46):
Yeah, um I was kind of a late bloomer, definitely not as
many years as Jason.
So um I started probablyplaying guitar like when I was
30, 32, and then um never reallygot into it real serious, kind
of more of a rhythm guy, andthen um I switched over to bass.
(06:08):
Um, because bassists only playfour strings, and they don't
want to say it's not hard.
Um you're gonna offend a lot ofpeople by saying what you're
thinking, so I mean, you know,Billy Gan will disagree with
you, man.
So uh that's true.
Actually, so I went straight tothe five strains because I was
(06:31):
like, I don't want to be thatfour-stream stereotype, like
nice brother.
Dana (06:36):
Nice.
Woody (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, man.
So I went straight to straightto five strain.
When I heard that B note, ohyeah.
That's all I needed here.
I'm like, four-stream, the Edoesn't really sound like I want
something that's like soundslike you know, we just dropped a
few bombs out of the Pacific.
Dana (06:56):
I like you already.
I like you already.
That's what I was doing.
Woody (07:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, look, I'm already makingfriends with this guy.
You talk you guys told me to belike cool, don't be like, you
know, like okay, Woody, justdon't say too much.
Yeah, you know, uh listen.
So anyway.
Dana (07:18):
You know, they they just don't give us bass players
enough respect.
So I feel you.
I feel I feel you, man.
Woody (07:23):
They don't, they don't.
Um so yeah, so I started likewhen I was 40.
So I think uh kind of how theuh if I made it how kind of the
idea of the band started wasjust uh I felt led to uh to do I
I've always felt led toministry, probably in the last
10 to 11 years, um felt calledto that.
(07:45):
So uh I didn't want to createlike a gospel like Christian
contemporary.
There's like so many of those.
And my original idea was tocreate a band with someone and
who had a who had the vocalchops like Scott Stapp from
Creed.
Um, because I saw Creed as asuccessful model, and I thought
he had a unique voice, and if Icould find someone like that, I
(08:08):
could really get the message ofChrist out to everybody.
Um and so usually God has adifferent plan than we do.
So um it actually became when Iwhen I met with Mark, which was
like within a month of meposting on Craigslist, he had
answered the ad.
Um he had been writing a lot ofstuff that you know uh very
(08:32):
composer oriented and asymphonic feel to it.
And um I was like, okay, wellthe Lord, this is where you want
us to go.
I want me to go with this.
It's not gonna be like, youknow, Creed Rock.
Um and so yeah, and so uh Ijust kind of took to the bass.
Um I don't know.
I think it's because this isit's just I I just I feel the
(08:55):
drums, I feel the rhythm in myhead.
I mean, I don't know how uhyou're Robert, right?
Robert.
Um I don't know how you thinkabout it, but I you just kind of
feel it.
Like you just you just can kindof sense the beat of the of
music easier, maybe than otherpeople who try to pick up the
bass.
It's just kind of feels second,you know.
(09:17):
Um just feels kind of natural.
So I just I thought I'd bebetter at it than I ever was
with guitar.
So um still have yet to beseen, but yeah, so um so yeah,
that's kind of how I got startedin days.
I was always like Jason said, Iwas always a Metallica kid.
I mean, I listen to everything.
Metallica, man of war.
(09:39):
Um, I was off a I was a jock,so I would get all pumped up
before games and hit my head onthe on the locker.
That explains a lot.
You know, and um, yeah, I paymy psychiatrist a lot of money.
So like yeah, so well let's goto let's go to you, Mark.
(10:11):
Like three, plus car wrecked.
So you're saying like a fewyears ago, I was doing time
trials down Interstate 65.
Yeah, and I and I slammed on mybrakes and I hit the divider
(11:02):
rail and had a concussion.
Speaker (11:04):
Oh no.
Woody (11:06):
Yeah, it's just normal.
Yeah, my wife's a nurse, soshe's like, ah, well, you're
gonna be a good one.
Dana (11:13):
Oh, you're yeah, you're alright then.
Speaker (11:15):
You're all right.
You're a good yeah, right.
Woody (11:20):
Back out there.
Dana (11:21):
All right, Mark, let's take it to you since we talked
to the bass player.
You know, we gotta talk to thedrummer next.
unknown (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
That's right, yeah.
So uh sure.
Um, so yeah, you earlier onyour I went to uh you you saw my
uh front line.
Uh I went to undergrad.
I'm a classically trained guy.
Um so my major instrumentactually wasn't drums or piano,
it's marimba.
So I'm a concert percussionistfor marimba, and I was and then
uh what's funny is I alwaysbefore that was like a jazz
(11:50):
drummer or a little bit of a uhfunk drummer, played of actually
fusion.
I was a big fusion guy.
Speaker (11:57):
Oh wow.
Mark (11:58):
So huge Weckle fan back in the day.
Uh yeah, just shop master,Dennis Chambers fan, huge Dennis
Chambers fan.
And then you get into some ofthe Latin greats out there, uh
listen to a lot of them.
More on the Latin side than onthe jazz side, but don't tell
anybody.
Oh, wait.
In fact, start listening toDream Theater Symphony X.
I was a rush fan back in theday as well.
(12:19):
Um, moved over to uh introducedto a band called Camelot, hence
the shirt.
Big fan of Camelot and uh Alex,if you're watching, hey bro.
Um great great guys, great guyin the band.
Um absolutely a big fan of uhCamelot.
Um and uh that's how I wasintroduced to bands like
Nightwish, Your Xandria, andEpica.
Um thanks to I'm gonna sayPandora, I didn't even know
(12:41):
those bands existed until about2006, 2007.
So it was great, yeah, it wasgreat timing.
So yeah, so there's my story,and uh yeah, uh so I play both
drums and keys in the band anduh um in the studio I do the key
parts but also orchestration.
Dana (12:58):
So okay, on to you, Cassandra.
Cassandra (13:03):
All right, well I'm made vocal for um for about five
years.
I've done uh professionaltraining for classical and
contemporary vocal.
Uh I've been overall singingfor about 10 years now.
If I mainly count when Istarted as a child, I'm a lot
(13:25):
longer, but um my mom and mygrandmother were classically
trained, so it was making wherethey taught uh grown up, and my
mom taught me the music, and Itried to basically just do ads
for church services, and uh thenas a teenager I got into uh
(13:50):
hard rock and metal because Iget that from my dad and my mom
into contemporary classicalChristian music, and then my
dad's a little head.
So I have both of them extendto me.
So when I got into middleschool, I started uh discovering
about Evan Him.
(14:10):
That was in um 2012.
I was just getting to know whothey were, and I liked it a lot,
and then as I got into highschool, I first saw the video by
my beautiful from Nightwish,and that was the first exposure
I ever had for symphonic metal,and I loved it, and I started
(14:34):
watching more and more of the Ican fell in love with it because
it makes both of thebackgrounds I I grew up with.
And around I would say 22 iswhen I started trying to find a
band to finally um be able touse um some teaching I had at
(14:55):
the time, just basic teaching,and um no one really liked my
voice back, so they were wantingsomething that was lower and
more masculine sounding, whichwas I think they really didn't
know what they wanted at thetime.
They would say that, oh yeah,let's have a green front of the
band, and then they would get uphere because it wasn't low
(15:18):
enough or harsh enough, and so alot of the uh additions I
didn't go well finally formedsomething in uh in 2019 and then
COVID hit, and so we justbasically writing and then over
the uh following years of 2019.
(15:39):
Um I think we don't know whatto do.
Um I don't think relationshipwith the waiting to see what he
(16:07):
was gonna do for me.
I wanna say something likethat.
And then I heard uh scrollingthrough them, seeing if there
(16:37):
was anything new, and then Ifound out that everyone was
looking for a front woman.
And I've heard them before thatwas from an old family of mine.
And I knew that they didsymphonic metal, and that was
about it.
So um, so I knew of thembecause they were chatting about
whether they were going to bethe ones that we opened for or
(17:01):
if there was anybody else, butthere's hardly any symphonic
metal here in this state.
So um so we were probably gonnabe like the only two bands from
the old group that I was with.
And uh when I went ahead andsaw their post, I was like,
well, let's give it a shot, seehow it goes, and see if they
(17:25):
like me or not.
Because at that time I wasgetting pretty shot down
emotionally because when you gettold that you're not gritty
enough or you're not good enoughor something, and and all that,
it's just it it really it's akilljoy.
Yeah, it so um I went ahead andinterviewed with them, had two
(17:48):
um two uh testing of umauditions, thank you.
I couldn't think of a word.
That's one word I can't thinkof all the time.
But audition, um, I had twoauditions, and um about an hour
after I left for the secondaudition, they asked me to come
on board, and I said absolutely.
Rob (18:11):
Obviously working well, yeah.
Cassandra (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of like a smallsummary of background.
Dana (18:19):
Awesome.
Well, you know, part of our uhour podcast is you know, some of
our earlier episodes we alwaystalk about you know the trials
and tribulations of even gettinga band to the point where
they're creating music together.
Because by the time you gothrough the different attitudes
and and all the stuff that ittakes to form a band and the
dynamics, yeah.
(18:39):
Yeah, we we call it a it's it'slike a family.
I mean, you guys you'll spendmore time together than you do
with your significant other.
It really is.
You're right.
So it's it's good to see youknow, all of you guys, the way
you're talking about each otherinto each other, that it looks
like this is something that'sdefinitely pretty pretty solid,
and that's good to see becauseyou don't know how many times
(19:00):
well, just me and my brotherhere, how many times we've gone
through people just trying tofind that right unity.
It's it's it's a tough deal.
Jason (19:07):
It really is.
It is, man.
It's like a perfect combinationof like talent and personal
chemistry, right?
Speaker (19:15):
Right.
Jason (19:16):
You can be the greatest musician on the planet, but if
you've got an ego or you justyou have clashing personalities
and all that kind of stuff, justthe dynamic doesn't work, man.
So any any it's it's that'sbeen part of our struggle, too.
Like anytime you bring a newpiece into the band, you always
have that kind of like shakeupof the dynamic, right?
You don't know how this newperson's gonna fit, you don't
(19:37):
know how everybody's gonna getalong, and right so it's it's
always a little bit of astruggle, and and you know,
we've been really fortunate thistime around that you know
Cassandra's been a great fit forus, and personality-wise,
talent-wise, I mean across theboard has just been a great fit.
So we're we're prettyoptimistic.
Rob (19:55):
All right, well, we're gonna make sure we put links to
your website and all your andall your socials on our our
website as well.
Yep.
But uh, what do you what areyour upcoming plans as far as
touring and uh recording?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Well, so we are I just recorded all the drum
parts.
Uh okay.
Yeah, and then uh drums aredone, um guitars are uh yeah,
guitars are in progress, andthen uh uh as soon as vocals are
down, I'll have a I'll havesome pre-orchestration done, and
then once uh the final vocalsare in, I'll finalize the
orchestration and go from there.
Speaker (20:30):
So you're pretty much the engineer then, huh?
Perfect answer.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Uh I wouldn't I wouldn't say uh that so much,
maybe pre-mix, but uh yeah.
So we are tracking.
We all kind of track how we'redoing that.
Yes, we do.
Jason (20:47):
Yeah, we're we're trying to build kind of some small home
studios, like I was saying, sowe can, you know, obviously
we're not set up to do drums,that's a little more complex,
but like guitar bass, evenvocals here lately.
Um, we're trying to get towhere we can cut some of that
stuff at home.
So, one that gives us a littlemore control, like I said, and
two, it you know, it saves a tonof money.
Yes, it does be able to do thatversus having to go to a studio
(21:09):
and pay, you know, X number ofdollars per an hour and and
track that way, it just gives usa lot more flexibility.
Uh, we can kind of work on ourown timeline and and so forth.
So it's it's been good so far,and we hope to kind of continue
to develop that and kind ofbuild up some of our own
equipment and be a little moreself-sufficient, I guess.
(21:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Dana (21:31):
Do you guys have a um do you have a booking agent or a
manager, or did you do all thatyourself too?
Jason (21:38):
No, we don't have anybody.
I mean, we've got some folksthat we looked at, and we've got
uh a couple people working withus that kind of help with
promotion and do some of that,but for the most part, it's it's
a full DIY type of a scenario.
Rob (21:51):
So how about your videos?
You guys self-produce those aswell?
Jason (21:57):
Uh no, we actually do.
We've got a videographer out ofIndianapolis that we've we've
done a couple of projects withhim before, and then we we just
recorded a third with him umwhat two weeks ago, three weeks
ago.
Um that's for a new single thatwe're working on right now.
So yeah, and he's a great guy,he's super talented.
He's he's done a lot ofdifferent uh videos for
(22:19):
different types of artists, he'sdone a short film, he's he's
got a lot of stuff under hisbelt, and and um and he's
relatively affordable, you know,our realm.
So uh we were very fortunate tocome across him and he's done
some great work so far, andwe're we're pretty excited about
this next one.
I I know he's got some goodshots, and he's kind of going
(22:39):
through the editing process now,so we're looking forward to
seeing that here pretty shortly.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Okay, yeah, he's very fun to work with, very chill,
very great.
Rob (22:47):
That makes it easier.
Jason (22:49):
Absolutely, yeah.
He's a great guy.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Yeah, he is drone.
Dana (22:56):
I'll talk about that actually.
You gotta have a drone, yougotta have a drone for certain
shots, right?
Jason (23:03):
Yeah, I'm excited to see what he does with it.
For sure.
Dana (23:07):
So we just got done talking with um some bands in
the UK, you know, and talkingabout how their shows and and
they're having problems with youknow, with all these shows, you
get pre-sale tickets.
And do you guys have to dealwith that up there in the
Midwest also?
Because we're we're trying tosee what it's like in different
parts of the country and youknow, in the different countries
(23:27):
and how they how they deal withthat.
So, with your shows, is it allpre-sale or is it the stuff
that's already booked and youhope to get people indoor?
Jason (23:35):
It's it's a little of both, yeah.
We've done the pre-sale thing,especially in the smaller clubs
and that sort of stuff.
Uh, then you get into likeplaying some festivals and
different things, and that's alittle bit different setup and a
different dynamic, and and howit's promoted and and how it's
funded and all that kind ofstuff can be a little a little
different to to work with, butyeah, we've definitely seen both
(23:58):
sides of that for sure.
Rob (23:59):
And do you have anything planned for 26, 2026?
Jason (24:05):
Um not well once moment.
Yeah, go ahead, Mark.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
I was gonna say I could jump in on the sure.
Um, so uh what I I've reachedout, I've already spoken to a
few clubs for 2026, um, and justbasically planted the seed,
nothing has been booked, but theshort answer is we're waiting
until this new video and singlerelease uh releases so they know
our sound, and then we startwe'll all start talking to them
a little bit more direct, orwe'll have we may we may get a
(24:35):
booking agent, we're still notsure.
So, whatever works best for ourmodel right now.
Woody (24:39):
So and I would add that um so we're kind of in a spot
that's kind of in the middle ofkind of reinventing the band a
little bit.
So if you guys have seen ourvideos that we have out there,
you know we've had about one,two, three, we've had like a
total of four four vocalists.
(25:02):
So now so Casey's our fifthvocalist.
And I think in the past, ifyou're a band that you know, you
get a lot of good feedbackabout your music, but then if
you see when it comes to shows,if you're kind of lacking in
some areas of your showmanship,I think that you know, if you
(25:24):
can find people who are trustedpeople who number one, are not
your family, that will and whatI mean by trusted people who
will tell you honestly, notobjectively, objectively, like
you know, it's kind of like whenyou're when you're learning the
scene, the the rule is younever ask your family if you're
a good singer, never ask yourwife, never ask your parents,
(25:46):
your mom's always gonna tell youyou sound so good.
She ain't gonna tell you thatyou sound like tell me how great
I am.
She ain't gonna tell you thatyou sound like you're in Sesame
Street singing into a garbagecan.
Like you know, like what wasthat guy's name on Sesame Street
that was in the garbage can?
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Oscar?
Oscar.
Woody (26:11):
Yeah, after the grouch, yeah.
I'm the bassist, I'm supposedto be Oscar.
So basically smell like himtoo.
Um that's the drummer, let's behonest.
But yeah, so like the joke isstill, I think we've evaluated
(26:33):
that and we said, okay, where dowe think that we really need uh
to really prove ourselves outbetter?
And we're really gonna beworking on that.
So um, and then our music hasalways it's always had symphonic
elements to it, but when youlisten, each song's a little
(26:54):
different.
But what's what's hard, and alot of people don't understand,
is you gotta find a mixingengineer that knows how to mix
symphonic elements.
We've got like 250 tracks on asong, and you wouldn't think
that oftentimes by listening toour music, but um that's because
our symphonic elements havenever really been at the at the
(27:16):
front of the mix.
So we're really being consciousand talking to our engineer
that hey, we want like thesymphonic side, like when you
listen to Nightwish, when youlisten to um the Epica, they're
all front.
So um we're we're open, we'reopen our fans see that, and then
(27:36):
we're hoping that we kind ofhave a much better stage
presence, and then we can say,okay, like what promoters, this
is what we can do on stage, um,and then be able to start
getting more shows becauseultimately we want to be able to
headline.
Um, and so yeah, but um a lotof people don't I don't think
(27:59):
understand that sometimes, youknow, it's it's not just as easy
as going out and saying, hey, Iwant to go and play at your
club at your oh yeah, yeah, andthen you know, that's what the
general public thinks too.
Dana (28:09):
They're like, Oh, you got a band together, just go out and
play.
It's like, well, you know, thatwas that easy.
Woody (28:13):
Oh yeah.
I mean this is the first band Iput together, and I thought it
was gonna be so easy.
I thought we'll start playingin the garage, we'll make music,
and we'll just go play.
Like people will just go in andstart playing.
And I was like, wow, what aghost of the reality.
Dana (28:32):
So you walk up to a real musical world.
Okay, so I'm I'm gonna go thereand go with uh typical, it's
stereotypical band and and whateverybody is supposed to be like
according to the world.
Um you know, the drummer is thecrazy one, you know, the one
that's always partying to get introuble.
(28:53):
You know, the bass player isthe quiet one that you know is
keeps trying to keep trying tokeep the band together, you
know, the guitar player is justyou know the egocentrical, you
know, guy that's gotta take allthe stage, you know, and then
the singer, of course, is justthe wild one.
Um how how close are we to thaton you guys?
Woody (29:13):
Like the zeroes across the board.
All right, that's what I wantto take over here for.
Yep.
Jason (29:19):
At least for us.
Yep.
Rob (29:21):
Okay, band dynamics.
Is it more of a democracy, oris there like one like point
person, or how does that work?
Woody (29:29):
The key is always democracy.
The key is do not have for thelove of those.
Don't have Madonna's in yourband.
Rob (29:38):
There you go.
Woody (29:40):
You have to root out any type of person that is not
democratic, isn't that their wayis the highway, like you just
can't have that.
So true.
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I've been through it myself before, and
it's not fine.
Rob (30:01):
Oh yeah, but it's been a musician for any length of time
that I'm sure has gone throughthe yeah.
Woody (30:06):
So to give you an idea, so like I'm the introvert of the
group.
So no, so like that's a woodydebase, right?
Like Jason's kind of uh moreum, I would say he compare
myself to others.
(30:27):
It's like it Jason's thequalities that I would more like
to have.
He seems to be a little bitmore level-headed and kind of
calm, and I don't have those allthe time.
Um, I think I tend to be veryobjective, but I'm also very
extrovert.
I have been my whole life.
(30:47):
That's just me.
So I'm definitely don't fit thebass stereotype.
Um I'm definitely not a JohnMion, both how I play and my
personality, that's for sure.
Um and boy and I are very slow.
Right, right.
You're already a step aheadthere.
Yeah.
So Mark and I are probably theclosest in terms of
(31:09):
personalities.
Uh we're both engineers andwe're both analytical.
And uh we can just kind ofalready know what each other's
probably thinking when we comeup to a problem that we need to
solve.
So yeah.
Dana (31:26):
Well, that works out very good.
I mean, being the bot the beingthe bottom end, I mean, that is
it doesn't get any better now.
Jason (31:33):
Yeah, man.
We're locked in.
Rob (31:39):
Okay, for so for our listeners, could you please uh
tell them where to find yourinformation about your band?
Obviously, your you know yourdot com address and your
socials.
And uh, and then after that,Mark, could you basically tell
uh new new musicians, especiallypercussionists, any advice you
would have for those just likemaybe going to the high school
(32:00):
stage?
Like a lot of us have done youknow the marching man symphonic
and that progression, and andjust any good advice for uh new
drummers?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Sure.
So uh I don't know, I can I cando our socials too, since you
asked.
Um, so our URL, our main uh uhmain website is
3w.divinemartyr.com.
So divine martyrs.com is ourmain uh URL.
Uh Facebook is Facebook.combackslash divine martyr.
(32:31):
And then Jason, uh, what's ourupdated IG?
Because we're rebuilding it.
So I'll let you know.
Jason (32:38):
Yeah, it's divine martyr official.
unknown (32:40):
Okay.
Jason (32:40):
Because we we had an official divine martyr, it got
hacked at some point, and wewere never able to get back into
it.
So we flipped it.
It's divine martyr official nowwith a period in between each
each word.
unknown (32:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I think but we're also on so we're also on
Spotify, Deezer, uh, iTunes, uh,YouTube.
Uh we have uh we have an Xaccount now as well.
We we relaunched that, sothat's why there's not too much
activity on it.
We relaunched that and we haveuh Reverb Nation and all the
other ones.
Um all those are just a Googlesite away.
Google uh go to your go to youruh browser and just uh on
(33:18):
Google and just look us up.
You'll find you'll find all theinformation on the rest of
those as well.
So but as far as like uhdrummer drummers who wanted to
start on uh get in the program,the first thing I would do is uh
one get an instructor.
Uh not a I'm not shamelessplugging myself, I do teach
lessons, but one thing I learnedabout YouTube is YouTube
(33:39):
doesn't tell you what you'rescrewing up.
So there's a lot of people whoare like, oh YouTube.
I can do that.
And the second one, yeah, yeah,exactly.
So uh the second one is uh,yeah, second one is get a
metronome.
And um, I don't I don't want tohear any pain about the
(34:00):
metronome.
But just remember the metronomeis truth, um, and you got to
adjust to it.
There may be times you don'twant to play to it, that's fine,
but make sure you can lock inwith a click.
I always tell my students aswell, uh, there's a three-part
principle is pet principle,precision, ergonomics, and
tonality.
So you can play precise, butplay sterile and with bad
(34:20):
technique in your get carpaltunnel.
You can play with greatergonomics, but you can be off
the click.
So try to balance all three ofthose together.
Um, so make sure you're notplaying stiff and make sure you
you're locking with a click.
But honestly, best things youcould do is play with an
ensemble, take private lessonsand have somebody inspire you,
and just keep practicing.
I would join a school programif you if you want to do that.
(34:42):
Uh, Jazz Band is a greatprogram, drumline is phenomenal.
Um, any of those.
So that's what I would say todo.
And then the biggest thing isif you don't know how to read
music, you've got more resourcesnow than you've ever had.
So get online, learn how toread music.
Speaker (34:57):
Um, learn your rudiments.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
It'll help you in the long run, especially if you're
just trying to read something,you know, trying to learn
something.
Rob (35:03):
And learn those rudiments, right?
Now, do you uh would you wouldyou advise for new drummers to
use uh the traditional grip oruh match grip?
I noticed in your videos youuse both.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yep, yeah, and it's that's actually a bad habit of
mine, which is fine.
Um, I if I go to traditional,it's more for groove playing.
I'm going back to a fusionmindset.
It's just I I switch it'salmost like I have a switch and
I'm like, okay, we're going tofusion style.
Or I'll go back to I need aprecise, uh, very precise,
linear, yeah, and it's justautomatic.
I don't think much about itunless I'm just oh like, oh I'll
(35:40):
do a visual here and switchhand grips, you know.
But uh yeah, traditional is isfine, especially if you're gonna
plan on doing either jazzdrumming or uh rudimental
drumming, go ahead and learn it.
That's it's great.
But I would start first withmatch grip and most importantly
German grip, uh, which is uhit's the easiest one to check.
I actually play if I'm playingmatch American, which is a
switch a little bit uh turnedin, where I can use uh finger
(36:04):
basically instead of wristwrists, I can I can start
manipulating fingers around thestick.
I don't have to use as muchwrist, I can make the stick move
like that, or on anotherfinger, and that's how I can
play blasting, so I don't haveto use wrist.
So it's little tricks likethat.
Very good.
So thank you.
Dana (36:20):
Okay, on on stage, do you guys use you know regular like
floor monitors or are you in-airmonitors?
What do you what's yourpreference?
Jason (36:30):
Uh I mean I think for me the preference is always in-air
if if we have that capability.
Um, the problem is in-airsaren't always good in airs, if
that makes sense.
Oh yeah.
The system may or may not begreat.
So I mean, we we've had somesituations where we were trying
to run those and it didn't go sowell.
But I mean, I I I think it'simportant to be able to do both
(36:52):
and and even rehearse with both,um outside of doing shows, you
know, just in your normalpracticing and and band
rehearsals, to try to do bothand and be acclimated to either
of those environments becauseyou never know with a given
venue or show what what youmight be walking into.
Speaker (37:09):
So very good.
Woody (37:10):
I think you may have some other musicians that would
scoff what I'm about to say, butif you can play really well
with wedges, you're gonna soundamazing as a band with in-ears.
But if you play with nothingbut in ears and your in-ears go
out and you're left with wedges,you're gonna be in trouble.
Jason (37:31):
Your ears screwed, buddy.
Right.
Woody (37:34):
I started I started it with in ears.
Uh I started playing bass within ears uh at a local church at
the time.
And um, and then but but inears is the only way to go.
Number one, you save yourhearing, number two, you're just
tighter, and but the problemit's so expensive.
(37:55):
Like you wouldn't need to do itright, to do it right, it's
about eight grand.
And when you're a band, becauseyou have to have here's the
problem.
I don't know if you guys haveexperience with uh with in-ears,
but you can go out and get likeX Vibes, which are the kind of
the smaller packs, but whathappens is is when you go to a
(38:19):
and there's some cheaperalternatives than like
signheizers or whatever, butwhen you go to a festival, you
have so much 2.4 gigahertzfloating around that place you
have to pretty much have to havefrequency hopping technology to
be able to move anywhere on thestage, not have to be line of
sight.
That's the problem.
So if you guys ever play within-ears, if you have X-Vibes,
(38:43):
trust me, you have to be line ofsight.
And if you're not line of sightwith that board in the back
with this with the house, yeah,you're gonna have dropouts, and
you can't have dropouts whenyou're on stage.
So um but man, that's a primeattack.
Jason (38:58):
I mean, it's a struggle, man.
It really is.
But I mean, when in ears aredialed in, man, there's
absolutely nothing better,right?
Woody (39:05):
And no matter what they say, the house can't sure you
you have only if you if you wereopening up for bands, you only
have a certain amount of time tobe ready for your set.
You're not the headliner whogets like an hour of prep before
the show ever starts, you know,and everything else.
Speaker (39:25):
So he's set up and takedowns pretty quick, right?
Woody (39:29):
So the house is walking up with his iPad, he's like,
Okay, how start playing, how doyou sound?
And you're like, Okay, youknow, Casey yelling for the mic,
or Mark, start hitting the kickdrum, and and he's just dialing
you in the best you can get.
So that's why having your ownsetup and everything, that that
nice unit, you can dialeverything in on your phone and
(39:49):
you plug and play when you cometo the to the show.
Otherwise, sometimes you can behit or miss.
Then you're on stage when youstart playing, going, hey, yeah.
That doesn't look professional,so it's tough.
It can be tough.
Rob (40:02):
Okay, well, we have one moment in our episode that we
call Oh shit.
Every band has gone throughthis.
For during a performance,you've had to have had something
that's gone either reallyembarrassing or terribly wrong.
Can one of you uh represent theband and say uh one of those
moments?
Jason (40:20):
Gosh, we've had a few.
Well, I mean, the first onethat comes to mind, it was one
of our early shows, Mark, and Iremember you were running tracks
off of a laptop and it decidedto go into update mode, I think,
right in the middle of thespawn.
So that yeah, I think from thatpoint we said, okay, we're not
(40:40):
doing that anymore.
And you started just bringingthe little MP3 or whatever, the
little iPod and runningeverything off of that.
Yeah, anything with an OS, Iguess you you run the risk of
having that happen, and itsurely did.
Woody (40:54):
So don't forget about like the I would say the worst,
but ended up being the best atthe end of the day was we were
playing a couple years ago inOhio, and we had a major
technical issue, and it was likethe last song, and you know,
Jason starts playing a littlejingle, you know, to kind of
(41:15):
give time for Mark to, you know,because you never you never let
him see a sweat when you're onstage and something's wrong.
Jason (41:22):
So pretend it's on purpose, right?
Woody (41:25):
Right.
And at this point, like we'restuck, and so we happen to be
playing a cover that we didquite a bit, just you know, and
it was it's easy, it's it's likeG D E C.
That's that's the chords, andso and it happens to be a cover
of a popular Christiancontemporary musician, her name
(41:46):
is Carrie Joby, but we made itinto metal, so it's called
Forever.
And so we were there was like abunch of bands there, a lot of
people were there, and so wewere just like, let's just do
it.
So I just turned around andsaid, Let's do forever.
And we had played before justwith Mark, you know, Mark did
not have a track, and um, peopleyelled out, yeah, go ahead and
(42:09):
do it, do it.
You don't need no track.
So we just played it, and um,we ended up getting an encore
off that set.
Jason (42:15):
So yeah, it worked out well, but yeah, it's frustrating
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
I've got a little more on that.
I was gonna say I've got alittle more on that story.
It's uh the packing the packingtrack system uh took a uh we'll
say gravity assist fall likethis off the stage, and that's
what caused the problem.
So I blank gravity, thoughgravity is very nice and holds
you on the ground in some casesit caused problems.
(42:42):
So here we are.
So we survived.
Yep.
Dana (42:49):
Okay, so Cassandra, this one's for you.
You know, you're you've gotyou've got all these boys around
you over here.
It's like uh how how do youhandle it?
Are are you the mother of theof the group here?
You keep everybody in control.
No, they are guys can be whenthey start playing with their
(43:10):
toys and stuff.
You know, we're just likelittle kids.
I mean, we need direction.
Rob (43:16):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
True story.
Rob (43:19):
How often do you how often do you guys rehearse?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
What was good?
Rob (43:25):
Did you hear your gun?
How often do you guys uhrehearse?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
You said play with toys, so I I queued up uh I
queued up a nice.
Rob (43:39):
Well my kids play her across the room here.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Um well we practice uh we try to practice every
Friday, and um sometimes we getcarried away, you know, with you
know usual chit-chatting andremembering things that messed
up or anything like that.
Like I never performed liveyet, but I I'd say the most
(44:10):
funniest mess up I ever had waswith my old band, and we were
really practicing for a show,and the guitar has just got a
little too close to my windmill.
So my hair got caught in thehead of his guitar, and I was
like and so he had to stop for aminute and try to get my hair
(44:31):
out of it, and then I just uhjust kept going.
Rob (44:36):
You gotta keep going.
I had to cry to react.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But you know, um that's the only thing I can
remember.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Sounds like spinal tap.
Yeah, just a differentgoodness.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, he got way too close.
He was trying to headbang withme, and then he didn't realize
he was too close to my hair.
Speaker 6 (44:54):
Oh man, I can see that as well.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Oh well.
So I have learned to try tostay in the middle of a like a
stage set and make sure if I'mever doing that, I have my own
space.
Jason (45:06):
Or if someone's gonna do it with me, good part is you
don't have to worry about that.
Rob (45:11):
Yeah, we both play headbush guitar.
Oh, there you go.
He's got a headphones.
Incredible kosher guitars.
Speaker 6 (45:19):
All right, yes.
Right, coacher.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
But no, I don't have to mother anything.
I just uh enjoy the gettingcarried away.
But sometimes we do have to uhone of them has to get me to
stop nerding out about vocaltheory.
So I have for a minute.
Speaker (45:39):
It sounds like you guys have good dynamics.
Dana (45:42):
Yeah, it's it's great to see the camaraderie between you
guys.
That's that's amazing.
So when you're on stage, do youguys have any do you
choreograph anything to whereyou're not running into each
other at certain points, or isit just a free-for-all?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
At the moment, we're just uh that's the plan.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think we're wanting tolean more into that.
After the concussions, we haveto choreograph.
Exactly right.
Yep, exactly.
We're compelled.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, because we have a huge, huge space, and we're
like miles apart from eachother, so we're gonna have to
like put tape on the floor tokind of mirror.
Dana (46:20):
This is your block.
So windmill here.
Woody (46:29):
I'm the guy that runs around like I'm the big guy that
just like can't really move allup, but he tries.
So kind of awkward movingaround.
Yeah.
Dana (46:40):
Okay, so e each one of you, um, let's start with you,
Jason.
Uh, main it main influences andand what at what point, at what
age did you realize that musicis what you wanted to do in
life?
Good question.
Jason (46:53):
Oh goodness.
Um I really started gettinginto music.
I mean, I I had an olderbrother that listened to a lot
of stuff, so I I grew up withlike Van Halen, Iron Maiden,
that kind of stuff.
I really started getting intomusic on my own, probably 11, 12
years old, something like that,so late 80s.
Um, and you know, it was reallyit was Metallica and Anthrax.
(47:14):
It was those two, those twobands, and specifically Hetfield
and uh Scotty and the rhythmguitarist from Anthrax, those
are really the two guys thatkind of inspired me to play to
pick up a guitar.
You know, so I've I've I'vetaken a lot of different
influence over the years.
I mean, Petrucci from uh fromDream Feeder.
Uh there's a classicallytrained metal guitarist named
(47:37):
James Murphy.
He's played a lot of extrememetal bands.
He played for Testament for awhile.
Um, he's kind of been aroundfor ages, and then Alex Gulnik
from Testament actually wasanother guy.
And and the thing that stoodout about those guys is they
were they played heavy music,but they were also incredibly
melodic.
Rob (47:55):
Right.
Jason (47:55):
You know, like classically trained, and they
were able to kind of incorporatemelody in a way that a lot of
heavy metal players just weren'tcapable of doing or just had
chosen not to, or whatever.
Um, so I always lean toward themore melodic players like that,
and those those guys had a lotmore influence on me than than
most of the others.
(48:16):
So that's that's kind of mymain source of inspiration, if
you will.
Speaker (48:21):
Okay.
Woody.
Woody (48:24):
Oh man, you know, I have to say that my inspiration, the
reason why I got into bass wasbecause of Ryan Martini.
So uh Ryan Martini, in myopinion, is probably one of the
best bass guitarists in the last25 years.
Uh if you recall, if you don'trecall, he was the bassist from
Mud Bang uh back in the 90s, anduh he's now um shoot, what is
(48:50):
his side project?
It's like a jazz fusion that hedoes.
Um he was sponsored by Warren,and now he's doing Federo bases,
which are like they start atlike eight grand.
I think his signature bass islike $11,000 or something.
Ryan Martini, I would say likehe he's the inspiration for like
(49:11):
me always wanting to movearound on bass, not be like just
sitting in the pocket, just Iwant to I like to move around
the neck, I like to do differenttype of like stuff with the
court.
Like I rarely will be like ifour court structure is A B C D,
I'll rarely ever be ABCB.
It'll be something thatcomplements that right off of
(49:31):
Jason.
So um uh things like that.
Um and then probably the onlyother one would probably be
Cliff Burton because I love theway Cliff always played um very
much kind of like a guitarist,and um I can't help but I I
(49:52):
really like doing kind of solostuff, like kind of trying to
get the bass out in the fronthere and there.
Um so uh it it also helps me beable to really just increase my
learning of the bass, learn alot more theory.
Mark's been an inspiration onthat because he'll talk a lot
about, oh, you know, that's adissonant chord, and I'm like,
(50:14):
that sounds great to me, butwhat is that?
I'll look it up.
Yeah, you know, like Bebopminor, B flat scale.
And I'm like, oh, let's go workit, let's go check it out, you
know.
And and so it I I think that II hope that you that we we might
even be able to add moreprogressive elements to our
symphonic music and really beunique.
(50:36):
Um so I don't know, yeah, it'skind of my thing.
But Ryan Martini, he's like, Ilove the guy.
Rob (50:43):
So and Mark, you have some incredible double beat better or
double uh you know beaterpattern.
So uh what who's yourinspiration behind that?
And then uh same question as uhDana asked, you know, when did
you start and uh when did youknow you wanted to be a drummer?
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Okay, well, I started when I was 11 uh playing
production, so that was uh a fewyears ago since uh I'm not
supposed to admit that I'm olderthan 39, so we'll say it's
pretty good.
Um so yeah, it's been a fewyears ago.
Uh it is what it is.
Um, but yeah, so uh uh Istarted honestly my my first big
(51:21):
influence I think was actuallymy first the first band I
listened to was either the BeachBoys or Billy Joel, because
they that's what was on theradio all the time, so I learned
those parts.
But the first drummer I wasreally into was actually uh Neil
from Rush.
So Neil Pierp.
So we started listening to alot of rush back in the day.
I think I learned I had both ofthe Rush compilation books and
(51:42):
I played through the wholebooks.
Um so I learned uh I remembernatural science was absolutely
for at the time I thought it wasa monster and it was fun to
play.
Uh, but I actually then it wentto I was a big fan of I said uh
Weckle in when I was incollege.
Weckle and and Carter uh CarterBuford from Dave, as well as uh
Dennis Chambers, so a lot ofthose pocket drummers.
(52:04):
But went to uh I startedhearing what Jason said uh Dream
Theater.
So we started hearing him, Istarted listening to Port Noy
and his patterns, and uh was abig fan of Man Gini as well when
he was in Dream Theater.
Honestly, my biggest influencewould probably be Casey Grillo
from Camelot, um, Thomas Lane,who is a monster.
You haven't checked him outyet.
(52:24):
Um, and then honestly, mydrummers, the drummers I listen
to change every year.
So, like lately, it's like I'lllisten to some of the stuff
like the exercises that AlexCohen puts out.
So he'll be playing with hislike rudiment patterns, like
hybrid rudiment patterns, righthand and right foot in 1516, and
then in his left hand and leftfoot in I don't know, some other
(52:46):
prime number over eight, youknow, and he'll have those
together and make him groove.
So he's uh just insanely gooddrummer, and then while at the
same time playing book reportswith his feet at 250 or
something, just in insanelyfast, good, clean drummer.
Um so he's uh inspiration.
I listened to uh I actuallychat occasionally with uh Alex
(53:07):
from uh Camelot.
He has some good exercises, um,and he replaced Casey, and then
I listened, I mentioned Alex uhCohen, um, who is the guy I
just talked about.
So honestly, I listened, I Ifind a new drummer like for a
year or two.
Um try to find some new guys tolisten to.
I was listening to the lady whouh Anika, I think I don't know
how to pronounce her name, whojust joined Rush from the
(53:28):
reunion.
And she's a fusion fellowfusion drummer, so I'm just like
sweet.
Yeah, she's an amazing drummer.
So you know, I'll listen, I'lllisten, I'll listen to her
stuff, and it's like and uh thedrummingo channel.
It's basically what I listen tois stuff that I could learn.
It's basically I listen tolearn and to improve, it's not
really per se for enjoyment.
Then on top of that, it's likeI'll go back and listen to uh
(53:51):
zappa's old drummers, you know,go through the whole Frank Zappa
lineup, so which is in itself awhole drumming school, and
especially when you try to playthe black page, it's pretty
insane.
So it was that way.
Speaker (54:03):
So very cool.
And at what age did you start?
Speaker 4 (54:07):
Hopefully I answered the question.
Dana (54:08):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (54:10):
11.
Speaker (54:11):
Oh, that's right, okay.
Dana (54:12):
And Cassandra, on to you.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Uh let's see.
I would say Taylor Swift.
Oh, heck no.
Speaker (54:24):
Obviously.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
No.
Sorry.
Um, I would say the the firstsinger that made me want to get
into classical singing was uhTadya Turner.
Speaker 6 (54:42):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
When I first listened to uh Tadia from uh Nightwish.
That was the first time I everheard uh uh opera vocals with
metal.
And as I started listening touh Exandria and I think Epica
(55:08):
was a little later, butAlexandria and Nightwitch were
my main favorites that inspiredme to want to do those big
vocals and the high notes andeverything because it takes a
lot of training to be able to doit, and a lot of people like to
be able to do them and justjump into it, but then you can
(55:29):
damage yourself really quickly.
So when I wanted to get intothat and was inspired to do it,
I knew I had to take vocallessons for it, and I had to be
very picky on who uh I was goingto train with because nowadays
online anybody just can callthemselves a vocal code without
even seeing you know actuallygoing to school for it.
(55:53):
So a lot of them like to makeup their own you know curriculum
and they don't even know ifit's trained in three or not.
So when I went to my vocalfeature, yeah, okay, what are
the things that you're wantingto learn?
I didn't know what to think.
So I don't know what I mean.
(56:15):
Um every so often during thelesson, he would have to meet
from going to my lowest to myhighest.
And then as I kept going higherand higher and higher, that's
(56:39):
when he was kind of saying, Hey,you need to take the offer,
you're going very well with it.
And I said, Okay, then I'll goand stick with it.
And um I think uh once I got tolike 2024, that's when I
finally was able to master a lotof the songs I dreamt of doing
(56:59):
and got inspired to do.
So I I wasn't always dreamingof being like an operatic
singer, but just singing ingeneral for metal was a big
thing.
And I was blessed to be able tohave a teacher to teach me both
opera and contemporary beltingfor like rock and and metal, and
(57:20):
being able to do them both andswitch them out whenever I want
to.
Dana (57:24):
So well, you sound you sound amazing.
I mean, there's no doubt aboutit.
So, whatever whatever you'vebeen doing is definitely
working.
As for each each of you, Imean, individually, you all guys
you sound you sound great as aas a band, it's it's amazing.
Um I'm so glad we had theopportunity to talk to you guys
and listen to your stuff, andwe're definitely gonna throw
your name out to the world.
Rob (57:47):
Well, thank you guys very much for uh participating in our
on our uh podcast, and it'sbeen a pleasure speaking to you.
You're uh sound like a greatgroup of guys or you know,
people in the in this uh band.
And and uh I just reallyappreciate it.
Thank you.
Uh, we will definitely put yourinformation on our website if
we have your permission.
Speaker 6 (58:06):
Absolutely.
Rob (58:07):
Okay, very cool.
All right, well, you guys havea great night, and thank you
very much.
Speaker 6 (58:11):
You as well, thank you for having us.
Dana (58:19):
That was awesome.
Really cool talking to thoseguys.
Sounds like a really dedicatedband, and it's so much fun
talking to them.
So, in closing, you know, I youknow, Rob always does his
little uh inspirational speech,so I've got one to close us
with.
And mine is to play a wrongnote is insignificant, but to
play without passion isinexcusable.
(58:39):
I mean, how how true is thatfor our show?
Uh all right, you guys.
Rob (58:45):
Thank you very much again.
And uh please do check outDivine Martyr, they're an
amazingly talented band.
And we will, like I said, we'llput a link on our socials to
their information as well.
But thank you very much forlistening and goodbye.
Goodbye.
Thank you.
Hi, welcome to Franklin's Garage Estate podcast.
My name is Rob WardrumsFranklin, and my co-host is Dana
Thunderbass Franklin.
How are you doing, man?
I'm doing good.
Oh, I'm doing really well.
Getting cold here, but okay.
I always start the podcast witha quote, uh, inspirational
quotes.
That's either about music orjust life in general.
(00:50):
So today's quote is by GeorgeBernard Shaw.
It's progress is impossiblewithout change, and those who
cannot change their minds cannotchange anything.
And I think that applies tojust about anything life, music,
everything in general.
So, Dana, you want to introduceour guests today?
Dana (01:08):
I'd love to.
Hey, with us today from uhcoming from Indianapolis, where
I know it's cold and snowing,guys, so you appreciate the
appreciate the effort to makeit, is uh a band called Divine
Martyr.
So um if you guys will pleaseuh introduce yourself and you
know if one of you can tell us alittle bit about your band and
what kind of music you do, andjust let the new listeners know
(01:30):
what you're all about.
Rob (01:35):
Somebody somebody go ahead and take the lead there.
Jason (01:37):
How about how about you said we're Divine Martyr, we're
from Indy or kind of all aroundIndianapolis in the metro area.
Um band started in about 2015.
Um, the first iteration of itanyway, and and Mark and Woody
got together specifically withanother guitarist, started
(01:57):
writing some material.
Um I think they came into asinger, what, within the first
year or so, and then uh at somepoint that original guitarist
left, and that was about 2016,so that's about the time I
stepped in uh on guitar, and youknow, the the original lineup
kind of recorded you know someearly stuff.
(02:19):
Um I think we were what was ourfirst single?
Was it 2018, 17?
Gosh, I can't even remembernow.
Um later that summer, that thatwas right around New Year's.
Later that summer we recorded athreesong EP with that same
lineup, released that, and thenuh we've been through a few
(02:42):
lineup changes off and on sinceyou know 2018-2019.
Uh Cassandra came on board backin April of this year, I think.
And you know, we're we've beentrying to put together an album
for the last couple of years,just couldn't get a lot of
momentum, and we've already madea lot more progress just in the
(03:02):
last six months than than wehave in a while.
So we're pretty excited.
We've we've got sights on afull-length album here to come.
Rob (03:09):
Nice, nice.
Jason (03:10):
And uh yeah, so that kind of in a nutshell, uh kind of
that's the the uh the cliffnotes version of of the band
history, I guess, there.
But um, but yeah, my name'sJason.
I play guitar.
Uh, I've been playing for a lotof years.
Thir 35 years almost are comingup on that.
(03:31):
Um grew up on a lot of um 80sthrash metal, so I started on
Metallica and Anthrax and Slayerand that kind of stuff.
Okay, kind of gravitatedtowards some of the heavier
death metal in the early 90s, soI was big into that kind of
stuff, cannibal corpse, carcass,suffocation, you know, the
(03:51):
pretty extreme metal kind ofstuff.
That's that's the hard end,hardcore, and then really that's
like playing wise, that's stillkind of my roots, you know.
I still incorporate a lot ofthat kind of riffage and that
kind of stuff into even ourmusic.
You know, symphonic metal isvery different from that, but
you know, some of that kind ofplays into my writing still to
(04:12):
this day.
Um so from that point, kind ofgot more into Prague, started
listening to a lot of jazz andand classical orchestrated type
music as well, film scores.
Um, actually have had a biginfluence on on me.
I love Hans Zimmer and guyslike that that do some of the
modern film scores.
I think he's an incrediblecomposer, and uh he's had a
(04:34):
pretty good influence on me.
And then really in the early2000s, I kind of found Nightwish
and and Epica and Camelot andsome of that stuff, and that's
that's really kind of shaped myplaying and my writing really
for the last 20 years.
That's that's probably had thebiggest impact in that time
frame, and and really that'skind of brought me up to today.
So that's kind of my history.
(04:57):
I appreciate that, man.
Yeah, it's kind of evolved overtime, but we're really starting
to dial that in.
We're actually doing a lot moreof our own recording and
tracking and that sort of stuff.
So you know, I've I've learneda lot in the last couple of
(05:17):
years, and it also gives us alittle more control over that
final product, right?
So uh it's been a learningprocess, but it's it's been good
for us, and and uh like I said,we're we're looking forward to
to really getting the albumgoing.
We're we're well on our waynow.
The writing's there, a lot ofthe tracking's done, and it's
just kind of putting somefinishing touches on some
(05:38):
things.
So it's really coming along.
We're excited.
Rob (05:41):
Cool.
Well, let's stick with thestrings.
Woody, you want to tell usabout you?
Woody (05:46):
Yeah, um I was kind of a late bloomer, definitely not as
many years as Jason.
So um I started probablyplaying guitar like when I was
30, 32, and then um never reallygot into it real serious, kind
of more of a rhythm guy, andthen um I switched over to bass.
(06:08):
Um, because bassists only playfour strings, and they don't
want to say it's not hard.
Um you're gonna offend a lot ofpeople by saying what you're
thinking, so I mean, you know,Billy Gan will disagree with
you, man.
So uh that's true.
Actually, so I went straight tothe five strains because I was
(06:31):
like, I don't want to be thatfour-stream stereotype, like
nice brother.
Dana (06:36):
Nice.
Woody (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, man.
So I went straight to straightto five strain.
When I heard that B note, ohyeah.
That's all I needed here.
I'm like, four-stream, the Edoesn't really sound like I want
something that's like soundslike you know, we just dropped a
few bombs out of the Pacific.
Dana (06:56):
I like you already.
I like you already.
That's what I was doing.
Woody (07:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, look, I'm already makingfriends with this guy.
You talk you guys told me to belike cool, don't be like, you
know, like okay, Woody, justdon't say too much.
Yeah, you know, uh listen.
So anyway.
Dana (07:18):
You know, they they just don't give us bass players
enough respect.
So I feel you.
I feel I feel you, man.
Woody (07:23):
They don't, they don't.
Um so yeah, so I started likewhen I was 40.
So I think uh kind of how theuh if I made it how kind of the
idea of the band started wasjust uh I felt led to uh to do I
I've always felt led toministry, probably in the last
10 to 11 years, um felt calledto that.
(07:45):
So uh I didn't want to createlike a gospel like Christian
contemporary.
There's like so many of those.
And my original idea was tocreate a band with someone and
who had a who had the vocalchops like Scott Stapp from
Creed.
Um, because I saw Creed as asuccessful model, and I thought
he had a unique voice, and if Icould find someone like that, I
(08:08):
could really get the message ofChrist out to everybody.
Um and so usually God has adifferent plan than we do.
So um it actually became when Iwhen I met with Mark, which was
like within a month of meposting on Craigslist, he had
answered the ad.
Um he had been writing a lot ofstuff that you know uh very
(08:32):
composer oriented and asymphonic feel to it.
And um I was like, okay, wellthe Lord, this is where you want
us to go.
I want me to go with this.
It's not gonna be like, youknow, Creed Rock.
Um and so yeah, and so uh Ijust kind of took to the bass.
Um I don't know.
I think it's because this isit's just I I just I feel the
(08:55):
drums, I feel the rhythm in myhead.
I mean, I don't know how uhyou're Robert, right?
Robert.
Um I don't know how you thinkabout it, but I you just kind of
feel it.
Like you just you just can kindof sense the beat of the of
music easier, maybe than otherpeople who try to pick up the
bass.
It's just kind of feels second,you know.
(09:17):
Um just feels kind of natural.
So I just I thought I'd bebetter at it than I ever was
with guitar.
So um still have yet to beseen, but yeah, so um so yeah,
that's kind of how I got startedin days.
I was always like Jason said, Iwas always a Metallica kid.
I mean, I listen to everything.
Metallica, man of war.
(09:39):
Um, I was off a I was a jock,so I would get all pumped up
before games and hit my head onthe on the locker.
That explains a lot.
You know, and um, yeah, I paymy psychiatrist a lot of money.
So like yeah, so well let's goto let's go to you, Mark.
(10:11):
Like three, plus car wrecked.
So you're saying like a fewyears ago, I was doing time
trials down Interstate 65.
Yeah, and I and I slammed on mybrakes and I hit the divider
(11:02):
rail and had a concussion.
Speaker (11:04):
Oh no.
Woody (11:06):
Yeah, it's just normal.
Yeah, my wife's a nurse, soshe's like, ah, well, you're
gonna be a good one.
Dana (11:13):
Oh, you're yeah, you're alright then.
Speaker (11:15):
You're all right.
You're a good yeah, right.
Woody (11:20):
Back out there.
Dana (11:21):
All right, Mark, let's take it to you since we talked
to the bass player.
You know, we gotta talk to thedrummer next.
unknown (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
That's right, yeah.
So uh sure.
Um, so yeah, you earlier onyour I went to uh you you saw my
uh front line.
Uh I went to undergrad.
I'm a classically trained guy.
Um so my major instrumentactually wasn't drums or piano,
it's marimba.
So I'm a concert percussionistfor marimba, and I was and then
uh what's funny is I alwaysbefore that was like a jazz
(11:50):
drummer or a little bit of a uhfunk drummer, played of actually
fusion.
I was a big fusion guy.
Speaker (11:57):
Oh wow.
Mark (11:58):
So huge Weckle fan back in the day.
Uh yeah, just shop master,Dennis Chambers fan, huge Dennis
Chambers fan.
And then you get into some ofthe Latin greats out there, uh
listen to a lot of them.
More on the Latin side than onthe jazz side, but don't tell
anybody.
Oh, wait.
In fact, start listening toDream Theater Symphony X.
I was a rush fan back in theday as well.
(12:19):
Um, moved over to uh introducedto a band called Camelot, hence
the shirt.
Big fan of Camelot and uh Alex,if you're watching, hey bro.
Um great great guys, great guyin the band.
Um absolutely a big fan of uhCamelot.
Um and uh that's how I wasintroduced to bands like
Nightwish, Your Xandria, andEpica.
Um thanks to I'm gonna sayPandora, I didn't even know
(12:41):
those bands existed until about2006, 2007.
So it was great, yeah, it wasgreat timing.
So yeah, so there's my story,and uh yeah, uh so I play both
drums and keys in the band anduh um in the studio I do the key
parts but also orchestration.
Dana (12:58):
So okay, on to you, Cassandra.
Cassandra (13:03):
All right, well I'm made vocal for um for about five
years.
I've done uh professionaltraining for classical and
contemporary vocal.
Uh I've been overall singingfor about 10 years now.
If I mainly count when Istarted as a child, I'm a lot
(13:25):
longer, but um my mom and mygrandmother were classically
trained, so it was making wherethey taught uh grown up, and my
mom taught me the music, and Itried to basically just do ads
for church services, and uh thenas a teenager I got into uh
(13:50):
hard rock and metal because Iget that from my dad and my mom
into contemporary classicalChristian music, and then my
dad's a little head.
So I have both of them extendto me.
So when I got into middleschool, I started uh discovering
about Evan Him.
(14:10):
That was in um 2012.
I was just getting to know whothey were, and I liked it a lot,
and then as I got into highschool, I first saw the video by
my beautiful from Nightwish,and that was the first exposure
I ever had for symphonic metal,and I loved it, and I started
(14:34):
watching more and more of the Ican fell in love with it because
it makes both of thebackgrounds I I grew up with.
And around I would say 22 iswhen I started trying to find a
band to finally um be able touse um some teaching I had at
(14:55):
the time, just basic teaching,and um no one really liked my
voice back, so they were wantingsomething that was lower and
more masculine sounding, whichwas I think they really didn't
know what they wanted at thetime.
They would say that, oh yeah,let's have a green front of the
band, and then they would get uphere because it wasn't low
(15:18):
enough or harsh enough, and so alot of the uh additions I
didn't go well finally formedsomething in uh in 2019 and then
COVID hit, and so we justbasically writing and then over
the uh following years of 2019.
(15:39):
Um I think we don't know whatto do.
Um I don't think relationshipwith the waiting to see what he
(16:07):
was gonna do for me.
I wanna say something likethat.
And then I heard uh scrollingthrough them, seeing if there
(16:37):
was anything new, and then Ifound out that everyone was
looking for a front woman.
And I've heard them before thatwas from an old family of mine.
And I knew that they didsymphonic metal, and that was
about it.
So um, so I knew of thembecause they were chatting about
whether they were going to bethe ones that we opened for or
(17:01):
if there was anybody else, butthere's hardly any symphonic
metal here in this state.
So um so we were probably gonnabe like the only two bands from
the old group that I was with.
And uh when I went ahead andsaw their post, I was like,
well, let's give it a shot, seehow it goes, and see if they
(17:25):
like me or not.
Because at that time I wasgetting pretty shot down
emotionally because when you gettold that you're not gritty
enough or you're not good enoughor something, and and all that,
it's just it it really it's akilljoy.
Yeah, it so um I went ahead andinterviewed with them, had two
(17:48):
um two uh testing of umauditions, thank you.
I couldn't think of a word.
That's one word I can't thinkof all the time.
But audition, um, I had twoauditions, and um about an hour
after I left for the secondaudition, they asked me to come
on board, and I said absolutely.
Rob (18:11):
Obviously working well, yeah.
Cassandra (18:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of like a smallsummary of background.
Dana (18:19):
Awesome.
Well, you know, part of our uhour podcast is you know, some of
our earlier episodes we alwaystalk about you know the trials
and tribulations of even gettinga band to the point where
they're creating music together.
Because by the time you gothrough the different attitudes
and and all the stuff that ittakes to form a band and the
dynamics, yeah.
(18:39):
Yeah, we we call it a it's it'slike a family.
I mean, you guys you'll spendmore time together than you do
with your significant other.
It really is.
You're right.
So it's it's good to see youknow, all of you guys, the way
you're talking about each otherinto each other, that it looks
like this is something that'sdefinitely pretty pretty solid,
and that's good to see becauseyou don't know how many times
(19:00):
well, just me and my brotherhere, how many times we've gone
through people just trying tofind that right unity.
It's it's it's a tough deal.
Jason (19:07):
It really is.
It is, man.
It's like a perfect combinationof like talent and personal
chemistry, right?
Speaker (19:15):
Right.
Jason (19:16):
You can be the greatest musician on the planet, but if
you've got an ego or you justyou have clashing personalities
and all that kind of stuff, justthe dynamic doesn't work, man.
So any any it's it's that'sbeen part of our struggle, too.
Like anytime you bring a newpiece into the band, you always
have that kind of like shakeupof the dynamic, right?
You don't know how this newperson's gonna fit, you don't
(19:37):
know how everybody's gonna getalong, and right so it's it's
always a little bit of astruggle, and and you know,
we've been really fortunate thistime around that you know
Cassandra's been a great fit forus, and personality-wise,
talent-wise, I mean across theboard has just been a great fit.
So we're we're prettyoptimistic.
Rob (19:55):
All right, well, we're gonna make sure we put links to
your website and all your andall your socials on our our
website as well.
Yep.
But uh, what do you what areyour upcoming plans as far as
touring and uh recording?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Well, so we are I just recorded all the drum
parts.
Uh okay.
Yeah, and then uh drums aredone, um guitars are uh yeah,
guitars are in progress, andthen uh uh as soon as vocals are
down, I'll have a I'll havesome pre-orchestration done, and
then once uh the final vocalsare in, I'll finalize the
orchestration and go from there.
Speaker (20:30):
So you're pretty much the engineer then, huh?
Perfect answer.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Uh I wouldn't I wouldn't say uh that so much,
maybe pre-mix, but uh yeah.
So we are tracking.
We all kind of track how we'redoing that.
Yes, we do.
Jason (20:47):
Yeah, we're we're trying to build kind of some small home
studios, like I was saying, sowe can, you know, obviously
we're not set up to do drums,that's a little more complex,
but like guitar bass, evenvocals here lately.
Um, we're trying to get towhere we can cut some of that
stuff at home.
So, one that gives us a littlemore control, like I said, and
two, it you know, it saves a tonof money.
Yes, it does be able to do thatversus having to go to a studio
(21:09):
and pay, you know, X number ofdollars per an hour and and
track that way, it just gives usa lot more flexibility.
Uh, we can kind of work on ourown timeline and and so forth.
So it's it's been good so far,and we hope to kind of continue
to develop that and kind ofbuild up some of our own
equipment and be a little moreself-sufficient, I guess.
(21:29):
Yeah, exactly.
Dana (21:31):
Do you guys have a um do you have a booking agent or a
manager, or did you do all thatyourself too?
Jason (21:38):
No, we don't have anybody.
I mean, we've got some folksthat we looked at, and we've got
uh a couple people working withus that kind of help with
promotion and do some of that,but for the most part, it's it's
a full DIY type of a scenario.
Rob (21:51):
So how about your videos?
You guys self-produce those aswell?
Jason (21:57):
Uh no, we actually do.
We've got a videographer out ofIndianapolis that we've we've
done a couple of projects withhim before, and then we we just
recorded a third with him umwhat two weeks ago, three weeks
ago.
Um that's for a new single thatwe're working on right now.
So yeah, and he's a great guy,he's super talented.
He's he's done a lot ofdifferent uh videos for
(22:19):
different types of artists, he'sdone a short film, he's he's
got a lot of stuff under hisbelt, and and um and he's
relatively affordable, you know,our realm.
So uh we were very fortunate tocome across him and he's done
some great work so far, andwe're we're pretty excited about
this next one.
I I know he's got some goodshots, and he's kind of going
(22:39):
through the editing process now,so we're looking forward to
seeing that here pretty shortly.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Okay, yeah, he's very fun to work with, very chill,
very great.
Rob (22:47):
That makes it easier.
Jason (22:49):
Absolutely, yeah.
He's a great guy.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Yeah, he is drone.
Dana (22:56):
I'll talk about that actually.
You gotta have a drone, yougotta have a drone for certain
shots, right?
Jason (23:03):
Yeah, I'm excited to see what he does with it.
For sure.
Dana (23:07):
So we just got done talking with um some bands in
the UK, you know, and talkingabout how their shows and and
they're having problems with youknow, with all these shows, you
get pre-sale tickets.
And do you guys have to dealwith that up there in the
Midwest also?
Because we're we're trying tosee what it's like in different
parts of the country and youknow, in the different countries
(23:27):
and how they how they deal withthat.
So, with your shows, is it allpre-sale or is it the stuff
that's already booked and youhope to get people indoor?
Jason (23:35):
It's it's a little of both, yeah.
We've done the pre-sale thing,especially in the smaller clubs
and that sort of stuff.
Uh, then you get into likeplaying some festivals and
different things, and that's alittle bit different setup and a
different dynamic, and and howit's promoted and and how it's
funded and all that kind ofstuff can be a little a little
different to to work with, butyeah, we've definitely seen both
(23:58):
sides of that for sure.
Rob (23:59):
And do you have anything planned for 26, 2026?
Jason (24:05):
Um not well once moment.
Yeah, go ahead, Mark.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
I was gonna say I could jump in on the sure.
Um, so uh what I I've reachedout, I've already spoken to a
few clubs for 2026, um, and justbasically planted the seed,
nothing has been booked, but theshort answer is we're waiting
until this new video and singlerelease uh releases so they know
our sound, and then we startwe'll all start talking to them
a little bit more direct, orwe'll have we may we may get a
(24:35):
booking agent, we're still notsure.
So, whatever works best for ourmodel right now.
Woody (24:39):
So and I would add that um so we're kind of in a spot
that's kind of in the middle ofkind of reinventing the band a
little bit.
So if you guys have seen ourvideos that we have out there,
you know we've had about one,two, three, we've had like a
total of four four vocalists.
(25:02):
So now so Casey's our fifthvocalist.
And I think in the past, ifyou're a band that you know, you
get a lot of good feedbackabout your music, but then if
you see when it comes to shows,if you're kind of lacking in
some areas of your showmanship,I think that you know, if you
(25:24):
can find people who are trustedpeople who number one, are not
your family, that will and whatI mean by trusted people who
will tell you honestly, notobjectively, objectively, like
you know, it's kind of like whenyou're when you're learning the
scene, the the rule is younever ask your family if you're
a good singer, never ask yourwife, never ask your parents,
(25:46):
your mom's always gonna tell youyou sound so good.
She ain't gonna tell you thatyou sound like tell me how great
I am.
She ain't gonna tell you thatyou sound like you're in Sesame
Street singing into a garbagecan.
Like you know, like what wasthat guy's name on Sesame Street
that was in the garbage can?
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Oscar?
Oscar.
Woody (26:11):
Yeah, after the grouch, yeah.
I'm the bassist, I'm supposedto be Oscar.
So basically smell like himtoo.
Um that's the drummer, let's behonest.
But yeah, so like the joke isstill, I think we've evaluated
(26:33):
that and we said, okay, where dowe think that we really need uh
to really prove ourselves outbetter?
And we're really gonna beworking on that.
So um, and then our music hasalways it's always had symphonic
elements to it, but when youlisten, each song's a little
(26:54):
different.
But what's what's hard, and alot of people don't understand,
is you gotta find a mixingengineer that knows how to mix
symphonic elements.
We've got like 250 tracks on asong, and you wouldn't think
that oftentimes by listening toour music, but um that's because
our symphonic elements havenever really been at the at the
(27:16):
front of the mix.
So we're really being consciousand talking to our engineer
that hey, we want like thesymphonic side, like when you
listen to Nightwish, when youlisten to um the Epica, they're
all front.
So um we're we're open, we'reopen our fans see that, and then
(27:36):
we're hoping that we kind ofhave a much better stage
presence, and then we can say,okay, like what promoters, this
is what we can do on stage, um,and then be able to start
getting more shows becauseultimately we want to be able to
headline.
Um, and so yeah, but um a lotof people don't I don't think
(27:59):
understand that sometimes, youknow, it's it's not just as easy
as going out and saying, hey, Iwant to go and play at your
club at your oh yeah, yeah, andthen you know, that's what the
general public thinks too.
Dana (28:09):
They're like, Oh, you got a band together, just go out and
play.
It's like, well, you know, thatwas that easy.
Woody (28:13):
Oh yeah.
I mean this is the first band Iput together, and I thought it
was gonna be so easy.
I thought we'll start playingin the garage, we'll make music,
and we'll just go play.
Like people will just go in andstart playing.
And I was like, wow, what aghost of the reality.
Dana (28:32):
So you walk up to a real musical world.
Okay, so I'm I'm gonna go thereand go with uh typical, it's
stereotypical band and and whateverybody is supposed to be like
according to the world.
Um you know, the drummer is thecrazy one, you know, the one
that's always partying to get introuble.
(28:53):
You know, the bass player isthe quiet one that you know is
keeps trying to keep trying tokeep the band together, you
know, the guitar player is justyou know the egocentrical, you
know, guy that's gotta take allthe stage, you know, and then
the singer, of course, is justthe wild one.
Um how how close are we to thaton you guys?
Woody (29:13):
Like the zeroes across the board.
All right, that's what I wantto take over here for.
Yep.
Jason (29:19):
At least for us.
Yep.
Rob (29:21):
Okay, band dynamics.
Is it more of a democracy, oris there like one like point
person, or how does that work?
Woody (29:29):
The key is always democracy.
The key is do not have for thelove of those.
Don't have Madonna's in yourband.
Rob (29:38):
There you go.
Woody (29:40):
You have to root out any type of person that is not
democratic, isn't that their wayis the highway, like you just
can't have that.
So true.
It's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I've been through it myself before, and
it's not fine.
Rob (30:01):
Oh yeah, but it's been a musician for any length of time
that I'm sure has gone throughthe yeah.
Woody (30:06):
So to give you an idea, so like I'm the introvert of the
group.
So no, so like that's a woodydebase, right?
Like Jason's kind of uh moreum, I would say he compare
myself to others.
(30:27):
It's like it Jason's thequalities that I would more like
to have.
He seems to be a little bitmore level-headed and kind of
calm, and I don't have those allthe time.
Um, I think I tend to be veryobjective, but I'm also very
extrovert.
I have been my whole life.
(30:47):
That's just me.
So I'm definitely don't fit thebass stereotype.
Um I'm definitely not a JohnMion, both how I play and my
personality, that's for sure.
Um and boy and I are very slow.
Right, right.
You're already a step aheadthere.
Yeah.
So Mark and I are probably theclosest in terms of
(31:09):
personalities.
Uh we're both engineers andwe're both analytical.
And uh we can just kind ofalready know what each other's
probably thinking when we comeup to a problem that we need to
solve.
So yeah.
Dana (31:26):
Well, that works out very good.
I mean, being the bot the beingthe bottom end, I mean, that is
it doesn't get any better now.
Jason (31:33):
Yeah, man.
We're locked in.
Rob (31:39):
Okay, for so for our listeners, could you please uh
tell them where to find yourinformation about your band?
Obviously, your you know yourdot com address and your
socials.
And uh, and then after that,Mark, could you basically tell
uh new new musicians, especiallypercussionists, any advice you
would have for those just likemaybe going to the high school
(32:00):
stage?
Like a lot of us have done youknow the marching man symphonic
and that progression, and andjust any good advice for uh new
drummers?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Sure.
So uh I don't know, I can I cando our socials too, since you
asked.
Um, so our URL, our main uh uhmain website is
3w.divinemartyr.com.
So divine martyrs.com is ourmain uh URL.
Uh Facebook is Facebook.combackslash divine martyr.
(32:31):
And then Jason, uh, what's ourupdated IG?
Because we're rebuilding it.
So I'll let you know.
Jason (32:38):
Yeah, it's divine martyr official.
unknown (32:40):
Okay.
Jason (32:40):
Because we we had an official divine martyr, it got
hacked at some point, and wewere never able to get back into
it.
So we flipped it.
It's divine martyr official nowwith a period in between each
each word.
unknown (32:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I think but we're also on so we're also on
Spotify, Deezer, uh, iTunes, uh,YouTube.
Uh we have uh we have an Xaccount now as well.
We we relaunched that, sothat's why there's not too much
activity on it.
We relaunched that and we haveuh Reverb Nation and all the
other ones.
Um all those are just a Googlesite away.
Google uh go to your go to youruh browser and just uh on
(33:18):
Google and just look us up.
You'll find you'll find all theinformation on the rest of
those as well.
So but as far as like uhdrummer drummers who wanted to
start on uh get in the program,the first thing I would do is uh
one get an instructor.
Uh not a I'm not shamelessplugging myself, I do teach
lessons, but one thing I learnedabout YouTube is YouTube
(33:39):
doesn't tell you what you'rescrewing up.
So there's a lot of people whoare like, oh YouTube.
I can do that.
And the second one, yeah, yeah,exactly.
So uh the second one is uh,yeah, second one is get a
metronome.
And um, I don't I don't want tohear any pain about the
(34:00):
metronome.
But just remember the metronomeis truth, um, and you got to
adjust to it.
There may be times you don'twant to play to it, that's fine,
but make sure you can lock inwith a click.
I always tell my students aswell, uh, there's a three-part
principle is pet principle,precision, ergonomics, and
tonality.
So you can play precise, butplay sterile and with bad
(34:20):
technique in your get carpaltunnel.
You can play with greatergonomics, but you can be off
the click.
So try to balance all three ofthose together.
Um, so make sure you're notplaying stiff and make sure you
you're locking with a click.
But honestly, best things youcould do is play with an
ensemble, take private lessonsand have somebody inspire you,
and just keep practicing.
I would join a school programif you if you want to do that.
(34:42):
Uh, Jazz Band is a greatprogram, drumline is phenomenal.
Um, any of those.
So that's what I would say todo.
And then the biggest thing isif you don't know how to read
music, you've got more resourcesnow than you've ever had.
So get online, learn how toread music.
Speaker (34:57):
Um, learn your rudiments.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
It'll help you in the long run, especially if you're
just trying to read something,you know, trying to learn
something.
Rob (35:03):
And learn those rudiments, right?
Now, do you uh would you wouldyou advise for new drummers to
use uh the traditional grip oruh match grip?
I noticed in your videos youuse both.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yep, yeah, and it's that's actually a bad habit of
mine, which is fine.
Um, I if I go to traditional,it's more for groove playing.
I'm going back to a fusionmindset.
It's just I I switch it'salmost like I have a switch and
I'm like, okay, we're going tofusion style.
Or I'll go back to I need aprecise, uh, very precise,
linear, yeah, and it's justautomatic.
I don't think much about itunless I'm just oh like, oh I'll
(35:40):
do a visual here and switchhand grips, you know.
But uh yeah, traditional is isfine, especially if you're gonna
plan on doing either jazzdrumming or uh rudimental
drumming, go ahead and learn it.
That's it's great.
But I would start first withmatch grip and most importantly
German grip, uh, which is uhit's the easiest one to check.
I actually play if I'm playingmatch American, which is a
switch a little bit uh turnedin, where I can use uh finger
(36:04):
basically instead of wristwrists, I can I can start
manipulating fingers around thestick.
I don't have to use as muchwrist, I can make the stick move
like that, or on anotherfinger, and that's how I can
play blasting, so I don't haveto use wrist.
So it's little tricks likethat.
Very good.
So thank you.
Dana (36:20):
Okay, on on stage, do you guys use you know regular like
floor monitors or are you in-airmonitors?
What do you what's yourpreference?
Jason (36:30):
Uh I mean I think for me the preference is always in-air
if if we have that capability.
Um, the problem is in-airsaren't always good in airs, if
that makes sense.
Oh yeah.
The system may or may not begreat.
So I mean, we we've had somesituations where we were trying
to run those and it didn't go sowell.
But I mean, I I I think it'simportant to be able to do both
(36:52):
and and even rehearse with both,um outside of doing shows, you
know, just in your normalpracticing and and band
rehearsals, to try to do bothand and be acclimated to either
of those environments becauseyou never know with a given
venue or show what what youmight be walking into.
Speaker (37:09):
So very good.
Woody (37:10):
I think you may have some other musicians that would
scoff what I'm about to say, butif you can play really well
with wedges, you're gonna soundamazing as a band with in-ears.
But if you play with nothingbut in ears and your in-ears go
out and you're left with wedges,you're gonna be in trouble.
Jason (37:31):
Your ears screwed, buddy.
Right.
Woody (37:34):
I started I started it with in ears.
Uh I started playing bass within ears uh at a local church at
the time.
And um, and then but but inears is the only way to go.
Number one, you save yourhearing, number two, you're just
tighter, and but the problemit's so expensive.
(37:55):
Like you wouldn't need to do itright, to do it right, it's
about eight grand.
And when you're a band, becauseyou have to have here's the
problem.
I don't know if you guys haveexperience with uh with in-ears,
but you can go out and get likeX Vibes, which are the kind of
the smaller packs, but whathappens is is when you go to a
(38:19):
and there's some cheaperalternatives than like
signheizers or whatever, butwhen you go to a festival, you
have so much 2.4 gigahertzfloating around that place you
have to pretty much have to havefrequency hopping technology to
be able to move anywhere on thestage, not have to be line of
sight.
That's the problem.
So if you guys ever play within-ears, if you have X-Vibes,
(38:43):
trust me, you have to be line ofsight.
And if you're not line of sightwith that board in the back
with this with the house, yeah,you're gonna have dropouts, and
you can't have dropouts whenyou're on stage.
So um but man, that's a primeattack.
Jason (38:58):
I mean, it's a struggle, man.
It really is.
But I mean, when in ears aredialed in, man, there's
absolutely nothing better,right?
Woody (39:05):
And no matter what they say, the house can't sure you
you have only if you if you wereopening up for bands, you only
have a certain amount of time tobe ready for your set.
You're not the headliner whogets like an hour of prep before
the show ever starts, you know,and everything else.
Speaker (39:25):
So he's set up and takedowns pretty quick, right?
Woody (39:29):
So the house is walking up with his iPad, he's like,
Okay, how start playing, how doyou sound?
And you're like, Okay, youknow, Casey yelling for the mic,
or Mark, start hitting the kickdrum, and and he's just dialing
you in the best you can get.
So that's why having your ownsetup and everything, that that
nice unit, you can dialeverything in on your phone and
(39:49):
you plug and play when you cometo the to the show.
Otherwise, sometimes you can behit or miss.
Then you're on stage when youstart playing, going, hey, yeah.
That doesn't look professional,so it's tough.
It can be tough.
Rob (40:02):
Okay, well, we have one moment in our episode that we
call Oh shit.
Every band has gone throughthis.
For during a performance,you've had to have had something
that's gone either reallyembarrassing or terribly wrong.
Can one of you uh represent theband and say uh one of those
moments?
Jason (40:20):
Gosh, we've had a few.
Well, I mean, the first onethat comes to mind, it was one
of our early shows, Mark, and Iremember you were running tracks
off of a laptop and it decidedto go into update mode, I think,
right in the middle of thespawn.
So that yeah, I think from thatpoint we said, okay, we're not
(40:40):
doing that anymore.
And you started just bringingthe little MP3 or whatever, the
little iPod and runningeverything off of that.
Yeah, anything with an OS, Iguess you you run the risk of
having that happen, and itsurely did.
Woody (40:54):
So don't forget about like the I would say the worst,
but ended up being the best atthe end of the day was we were
playing a couple years ago inOhio, and we had a major
technical issue, and it was likethe last song, and you know,
Jason starts playing a littlejingle, you know, to kind of
(41:15):
give time for Mark to, you know,because you never you never let
him see a sweat when you're onstage and something's wrong.
Jason (41:22):
So pretend it's on purpose, right?
Woody (41:25):
Right.
And at this point, like we'restuck, and so we happen to be
playing a cover that we didquite a bit, just you know, and
it was it's easy, it's it's likeG D E C.
That's that's the chords, andso and it happens to be a cover
of a popular Christiancontemporary musician, her name
(41:46):
is Carrie Joby, but we made itinto metal, so it's called
Forever.
And so we were there was like abunch of bands there, a lot of
people were there, and so wewere just like, let's just do
it.
So I just turned around andsaid, Let's do forever.
And we had played before justwith Mark, you know, Mark did
not have a track, and um, peopleyelled out, yeah, go ahead and
(42:09):
do it, do it.
You don't need no track.
So we just played it, and um,we ended up getting an encore
off that set.
Jason (42:15):
So yeah, it worked out well, but yeah, it's frustrating
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
I've got a little more on that.
I was gonna say I've got alittle more on that story.
It's uh the packing the packingtrack system uh took a uh we'll
say gravity assist fall likethis off the stage, and that's
what caused the problem.
So I blank gravity, thoughgravity is very nice and holds
you on the ground in some casesit caused problems.
(42:42):
So here we are.
So we survived.
Yep.
Dana (42:49):
Okay, so Cassandra, this one's for you.
You know, you're you've gotyou've got all these boys around
you over here.
It's like uh how how do youhandle it?
Are are you the mother of theof the group here?
You keep everybody in control.
No, they are guys can be whenthey start playing with their
(43:10):
toys and stuff.
You know, we're just likelittle kids.
I mean, we need direction.
Rob (43:16):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (43:17):
True story.
Rob (43:19):
How often do you how often do you guys rehearse?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
What was good?
Rob (43:25):
Did you hear your gun?
How often do you guys uhrehearse?
Speaker 4 (43:31):
You said play with toys, so I I queued up uh I
queued up a nice.
Rob (43:39):
Well my kids play her across the room here.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Um well we practice uh we try to practice every
Friday, and um sometimes we getcarried away, you know, with you
know usual chit-chatting andremembering things that messed
up or anything like that.
Like I never performed liveyet, but I I'd say the most
(44:10):
funniest mess up I ever had waswith my old band, and we were
really practicing for a show,and the guitar has just got a
little too close to my windmill.
So my hair got caught in thehead of his guitar, and I was
like and so he had to stop for aminute and try to get my hair
(44:31):
out of it, and then I just uhjust kept going.
Rob (44:36):
You gotta keep going.
I had to cry to react.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But you know, um that's the only thing I can
remember.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Sounds like spinal tap.
Yeah, just a differentgoodness.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, he got way too close.
He was trying to headbang withme, and then he didn't realize
he was too close to my hair.
Speaker 6 (44:54):
Oh man, I can see that as well.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Oh well.
So I have learned to try tostay in the middle of a like a
stage set and make sure if I'mever doing that, I have my own
space.
Jason (45:06):
Or if someone's gonna do it with me, good part is you
don't have to worry about that.
Rob (45:11):
Yeah, we both play headbush guitar.
Oh, there you go.
He's got a headphones.
Incredible kosher guitars.
Speaker 6 (45:19):
All right, yes.
Right, coacher.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
But no, I don't have to mother anything.
I just uh enjoy the gettingcarried away.
But sometimes we do have to uhone of them has to get me to
stop nerding out about vocaltheory.
So I have for a minute.
Speaker (45:39):
It sounds like you guys have good dynamics.
Dana (45:42):
Yeah, it's it's great to see the camaraderie between you
guys.
That's that's amazing.
So when you're on stage, do youguys have any do you
choreograph anything to whereyou're not running into each
other at certain points, or isit just a free-for-all?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
At the moment, we're just uh that's the plan.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think we're wanting tolean more into that.
After the concussions, we haveto choreograph.
Exactly right.
Yep, exactly.
We're compelled.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, because we have a huge, huge space, and we're
like miles apart from eachother, so we're gonna have to
like put tape on the floor tokind of mirror.
Dana (46:20):
This is your block.
So windmill here.
Woody (46:29):
I'm the guy that runs around like I'm the big guy that
just like can't really move allup, but he tries.
So kind of awkward movingaround.
Yeah.
Dana (46:40):
Okay, so e each one of you, um, let's start with you,
Jason.
Uh, main it main influences andand what at what point, at what
age did you realize that musicis what you wanted to do in
life?
Good question.
Jason (46:53):
Oh goodness.
Um I really started gettinginto music.
I mean, I I had an olderbrother that listened to a lot
of stuff, so I I grew up withlike Van Halen, Iron Maiden,
that kind of stuff.
I really started getting intomusic on my own, probably 11, 12
years old, something like that,so late 80s.
Um, and you know, it was reallyit was Metallica and Anthrax.
(47:14):
It was those two, those twobands, and specifically Hetfield
and uh Scotty and the rhythmguitarist from Anthrax, those
are really the two guys thatkind of inspired me to play to
pick up a guitar.
You know, so I've I've I'vetaken a lot of different
influence over the years.
I mean, Petrucci from uh fromDream Feeder.
Uh there's a classicallytrained metal guitarist named
(47:37):
James Murphy.
He's played a lot of extrememetal bands.
He played for Testament for awhile.
Um, he's kind of been aroundfor ages, and then Alex Gulnik
from Testament actually wasanother guy.
And and the thing that stoodout about those guys is they
were they played heavy music,but they were also incredibly
melodic.
Rob (47:55):
Right.
Jason (47:55):
You know, like classically trained, and they
were able to kind of incorporatemelody in a way that a lot of
heavy metal players just weren'tcapable of doing or just had
chosen not to, or whatever.
Um, so I always lean toward themore melodic players like that,
and those those guys had a lotmore influence on me than than
most of the others.
(48:16):
So that's that's kind of mymain source of inspiration, if
you will.
Speaker (48:21):
Okay.
Woody.
Woody (48:24):
Oh man, you know, I have to say that my inspiration, the
reason why I got into bass wasbecause of Ryan Martini.
So uh Ryan Martini, in myopinion, is probably one of the
best bass guitarists in the last25 years.
Uh if you recall, if you don'trecall, he was the bassist from
Mud Bang uh back in the 90s, anduh he's now um shoot, what is
(48:50):
his side project?
It's like a jazz fusion that hedoes.
Um he was sponsored by Warren,and now he's doing Federo bases,
which are like they start atlike eight grand.
I think his signature bass islike $11,000 or something.
Ryan Martini, I would say likehe he's the inspiration for like
(49:11):
me always wanting to movearound on bass, not be like just
sitting in the pocket, just Iwant to I like to move around
the neck, I like to do differenttype of like stuff with the
court.
Like I rarely will be like ifour court structure is A B C D,
I'll rarely ever be ABCB.
It'll be something thatcomplements that right off of
(49:31):
Jason.
So um uh things like that.
Um and then probably the onlyother one would probably be
Cliff Burton because I love theway Cliff always played um very
much kind of like a guitarist,and um I can't help but I I
(49:52):
really like doing kind of solostuff, like kind of trying to
get the bass out in the fronthere and there.
Um so uh it it also helps me beable to really just increase my
learning of the bass, learn alot more theory.
Mark's been an inspiration onthat because he'll talk a lot
about, oh, you know, that's adissonant chord, and I'm like,
(50:14):
that sounds great to me, butwhat is that?
I'll look it up.
Yeah, you know, like Bebopminor, B flat scale.
And I'm like, oh, let's go workit, let's go check it out, you
know.
And and so it I I think that II hope that you that we we might
even be able to add moreprogressive elements to our
symphonic music and really beunique.
(50:36):
Um so I don't know, yeah, it'skind of my thing.
But Ryan Martini, he's like, Ilove the guy.
Rob (50:43):
So and Mark, you have some incredible double beat better or
double uh you know beaterpattern.
So uh what who's yourinspiration behind that?
And then uh same question as uhDana asked, you know, when did
you start and uh when did youknow you wanted to be a drummer?
Speaker 4 (51:00):
Okay, well, I started when I was 11 uh playing
production, so that was uh a fewyears ago since uh I'm not
supposed to admit that I'm olderthan 39, so we'll say it's
pretty good.
Um so yeah, it's been a fewyears ago.
Uh it is what it is.
Um, but yeah, so uh uh Istarted honestly my my first big
(51:21):
influence I think was actuallymy first the first band I
listened to was either the BeachBoys or Billy Joel, because
they that's what was on theradio all the time, so I learned
those parts.
But the first drummer I wasreally into was actually uh Neil
from Rush.
So Neil Pierp.
So we started listening to alot of rush back in the day.
I think I learned I had both ofthe Rush compilation books and
(51:42):
I played through the wholebooks.
Um so I learned uh I remembernatural science was absolutely
for at the time I thought it wasa monster and it was fun to
play.
Uh, but I actually then it wentto I was a big fan of I said uh
Weckle in when I was incollege.
Weckle and and Carter uh CarterBuford from Dave, as well as uh
Dennis Chambers, so a lot ofthose pocket drummers.
(52:04):
But went to uh I startedhearing what Jason said uh Dream
Theater.
So we started hearing him, Istarted listening to Port Noy
and his patterns, and uh was abig fan of Man Gini as well when
he was in Dream Theater.
Honestly, my biggest influencewould probably be Casey Grillo
from Camelot, um, Thomas Lane,who is a monster.
You haven't checked him outyet.
(52:24):
Um, and then honestly, mydrummers, the drummers I listen
to change every year.
So, like lately, it's like I'lllisten to some of the stuff
like the exercises that AlexCohen puts out.
So he'll be playing with hislike rudiment patterns, like
hybrid rudiment patterns, righthand and right foot in 1516, and
then in his left hand and leftfoot in I don't know, some other
(52:46):
prime number over eight, youknow, and he'll have those
together and make him groove.
So he's uh just insanely gooddrummer, and then while at the
same time playing book reportswith his feet at 250 or
something, just in insanelyfast, good, clean drummer.
Um so he's uh inspiration.
I listened to uh I actuallychat occasionally with uh Alex
(53:07):
from uh Camelot.
He has some good exercises, um,and he replaced Casey, and then
I listened, I mentioned Alex uhCohen, um, who is the guy I
just talked about.
So honestly, I listened, I Ifind a new drummer like for a
year or two.
Um try to find some new guys tolisten to.
I was listening to the lady whouh Anika, I think I don't know
how to pronounce her name, whojust joined Rush from the
(53:28):
reunion.
And she's a fusion fellowfusion drummer, so I'm just like
sweet.
Yeah, she's an amazing drummer.
So you know, I'll listen, I'lllisten, I'll listen to her
stuff, and it's like and uh thedrummingo channel.
It's basically what I listen tois stuff that I could learn.
It's basically I listen tolearn and to improve, it's not
really per se for enjoyment.
Then on top of that, it's likeI'll go back and listen to uh
(53:51):
zappa's old drummers, you know,go through the whole Frank Zappa
lineup, so which is in itself awhole drumming school, and
especially when you try to playthe black page, it's pretty
insane.
So it was that way.
Speaker (54:03):
So very cool.
And at what age did you start?
Speaker 4 (54:07):
Hopefully I answered the question.
Dana (54:08):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (54:10):
11.
Speaker (54:11):
Oh, that's right, okay.
Dana (54:12):
And Cassandra, on to you.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Uh let's see.
I would say Taylor Swift.
Oh, heck no.
Speaker (54:24):
Obviously.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
No.
Sorry.
Um, I would say the the firstsinger that made me want to get
into classical singing was uhTadya Turner.
Speaker 6 (54:42):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
When I first listened to uh Tadia from uh Nightwish.
That was the first time I everheard uh uh opera vocals with
metal.
And as I started listening touh Exandria and I think Epica
(55:08):
was a little later, butAlexandria and Nightwitch were
my main favorites that inspiredme to want to do those big
vocals and the high notes andeverything because it takes a
lot of training to be able to doit, and a lot of people like to
be able to do them and justjump into it, but then you can
(55:29):
damage yourself really quickly.
So when I wanted to get intothat and was inspired to do it,
I knew I had to take vocallessons for it, and I had to be
very picky on who uh I was goingto train with because nowadays
online anybody just can callthemselves a vocal code without
even seeing you know actuallygoing to school for it.
(55:53):
So a lot of them like to makeup their own you know curriculum
and they don't even know ifit's trained in three or not.
So when I went to my vocalfeature, yeah, okay, what are
the things that you're wantingto learn?
I didn't know what to think.
So I don't know what I mean.
(56:15):
Um every so often during thelesson, he would have to meet
from going to my lowest to myhighest.
And then as I kept going higherand higher and higher, that's
(56:39):
when he was kind of saying, Hey,you need to take the offer,
you're going very well with it.
And I said, Okay, then I'll goand stick with it.
And um I think uh once I got tolike 2024, that's when I
finally was able to master a lotof the songs I dreamt of doing
(56:59):
and got inspired to do.
So I I wasn't always dreamingof being like an operatic
singer, but just singing ingeneral for metal was a big
thing.
And I was blessed to be able tohave a teacher to teach me both
opera and contemporary beltingfor like rock and and metal, and
(57:20):
being able to do them both andswitch them out whenever I want
to.
Dana (57:24):
So well, you sound you sound amazing.
I mean, there's no doubt aboutit.
So, whatever whatever you'vebeen doing is definitely
working.
As for each each of you, Imean, individually, you all guys
you sound you sound great as aas a band, it's it's amazing.
Um I'm so glad we had theopportunity to talk to you guys
and listen to your stuff, andwe're definitely gonna throw
your name out to the world.
Rob (57:47):
Well, thank you guys very much for uh participating in our
on our uh podcast, and it'sbeen a pleasure speaking to you.
You're uh sound like a greatgroup of guys or you know,
people in the in this uh band.
And and uh I just reallyappreciate it.
Thank you.
Uh, we will definitely put yourinformation on our website if
we have your permission.
Speaker 6 (58:06):
Absolutely.
Rob (58:07):
Okay, very cool.
All right, well, you guys havea great night, and thank you
very much.
Speaker 6 (58:11):
You as well, thank you for having us.
Dana (58:19):
That was awesome.
Really cool talking to thoseguys.
Sounds like a really dedicatedband, and it's so much fun
talking to them.
So, in closing, you know, I youknow, Rob always does his
little uh inspirational speech,so I've got one to close us
with.
And mine is to play a wrongnote is insignificant, but to
play without passion isinexcusable.
(58:39):
I mean, how how true is thatfor our show?
Uh all right, you guys.
Rob (58:45):
Thank you very much again.
And uh please do check outDivine Martyr, they're an
amazingly talented band.
And we will, like I said, we'llput a link on our socials to
their information as well.
But thank you very much forlistening and goodbye.
Goodbye.
Thank you.
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