November 25, 2025 • 49 mins
In our second episode of The Great Central Fire, join our host Jeff Coleman for a conversation with George Simmons, an alum and former board member of Camp Kooch. George shares his journey into the camp community back in the 1950s, recounting funny, memorable stories, including flipping a canoe and Arctic expeditions. Listen as he reminisces about key figures he admired, the origins of Ogichi, and friendship ties that span generations. You'll learn about Camp Kooch's rich history and the impact it has had on countless lives. Don't miss George's heartfelt tribute to John Holden and his vision of inclusivity that has shaped the camp's progress. Sit back, relax, and enjoy this trip down memory lane.
Episode Produced by Unbridled Media. Incidental music by Alice Peacock.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Great Central Fire.
In our new episode we have George Simmons joining us.
A long time Camp Cooch member and served on the board for many
years. We had a great conversation
talking about how he got involved in camp back in the
50s, a funny story about flipping a canoe, Arctic trip,
(00:20):
stories starting O Getchi and some key people that he admired
during his time up north. So sit back, relax, and I hope
you enjoy our talk with George Simmons.
Boy, this is going to be a fun one today on this episode of the
(00:41):
Great Central Fire. I've been looking forward to
this special guest. I can't wait to sit down and I'm
sure there's going to be a million stories today.
We have George Simmons joining us.
George, I would say that if there was a Mount Rushmore for
Cam Kuchicheng, the Simmons namewould certainly be one of the
(01:03):
one of the names up there for sure.
But we thank you for joining us today and how you doing.
Pretty well, thanks. Good.
Although I had a little dental work this morning so.
OK, George, I mean from Saint Louis, How how did you remember
how your family found out about camp?
I mean, do you remember back? Can you remember where you and I
think your first summer as a camper was in 54 if I remember,
(01:25):
if that's correct? Yeah, I, I saw a Tump line
article some some days ago though that said 52 and I I
think that's wrong. I'm, I'm kind of pretty sure 54
was the the year and we we ran into camp through a guy named
(01:48):
Stubb. Mole.
Oh, OK. Wow, wow.
Back then who was a football coach at University High School,
another community there in SaintLouis where where we grew up.
But camp was a a thing of our family.
(02:09):
My dad had gone to camp when he was young and my older brother
Paul had gone or Simi had gone to camp and a year before out in
Colorado. And then he and I both went to a
a boys camp, actually a boys andgirls camp in central Minnesota
(02:31):
called Camp Lincoln. I think I went there when I was
11 or 10 or something. OK.
When we went there just one one year, that was yeah, Camp
Lincoln. OK.
Anyway, anyway then we ran into this guy Stubbed Mall from
(02:53):
University City and he I think he introduced this to to Kuchi
Chang back in the day. OK.
And then and then another brother you had go there, David,
and, and, and of course, your sister's son.
Younger brother David, yeah, when he was, he went, he went a
(03:13):
long time and yeah, son went. Oh yeah, I know, I know.
Your sons will get to them. There's a yeah, there's a good
family history in there. And now in professionally,
George, you're retired now what what, what you were in the oil
business, correct? Is that were you always in that?
(03:34):
No, pretty much in oil and gas business whole time exploration
side. OK.
And you were down in Texas for awhile, I if I remember right.
Well, I started my career down in Fort Worth with the old Pan
American company that was later brought out by Amoco Corporation
(04:00):
that now is a part of the British Petroleum.
OK, Yeah, OK. Like, like, like all the
industries kind of went through a number of mergers and
whatever. Yeah.
OK, retire now living the good life here in Florida and and you
still spend your. Suppers pretty much retired and
we moved to to Florida here two years ago.
(04:24):
OK, And still have your place atGrindstone up on Rainy Lake?
Oh yeah, We've, we've had that since 199097.
We've had a place there on Grindstone Island and we, we, we
sure enjoy it. We go there every summer now.
Yep, vanquished then. Right?
(04:45):
Right at six months there. It's great.
Hard to get away from that place, isn't it?
Once it's in you, it's in you. It is, yeah.
It's there's some roots there since 1954 or whatever.
Well, I remember as a kid, like if I remember, I mean, the whole
(05:05):
Simmons clan would like run out,basically the whole island view.
Your, your parents came up and, and I, you know, I just remember
going over there. That was just such a big thing
for me as a young kid in the camper.
And of course my parents up there was the final week and all
of the alumni coming back and seeing all that was such a big
thing. And, and your family was such a
big part of that. Well, they, they were over the
(05:27):
years, you know, from the time they sent us to camp, they, it
seemed like they always came up for a visit either at mid season
or at the end of the season to, to visit.
And then dad became a great friend of John Holden's back in
(05:48):
the day and then also served on,on the board of directors that
he had and actually was on the board, I think with when John
was leading the, the founding ofthe the Camping and Education
Foundation to, to get Cooch on anonprofit basis.
(06:11):
And anyway that I can, I can remember those days and John and
John and dad were great friends and, you know, drank a lot of
whiskey together. We're we're good friends.
(06:33):
That's great. No, that's 222 great people and
you know, big part of this placewhere we are today.
That's that's for sure. You were.
My dad has told me a few storiesand I like to tell stories.
So boy. But you, he had, you were in his
(06:57):
canoe one time and coming back or somewhere a few times, you
flip this canoe because it was hot, too hot.
What? What was that all about?
Well, it I can I can remember wewere paddling down the lake is
dead quiet and the sun was just beaming down.
(07:17):
It was probably 90° and he was astern man and he was kind of
complaining about the heat. So I stood up on the gun, all
the the canoe and tipped us over.
What do you say? He wasn't very happy about that.
All the gear floating around in the lakes.
Probably got a cigarette sweat or something.
That's what probably that's whatprobably made him mad.
(07:39):
Couldn't have got his smoke wet,no doubt.
But this is what's great about this place, too, Georgia.
So that you were in my dad's canoe and then I had your son
Jeff on a trip. He was not in my canoe.
He was in a camper canoe with his cousin Austin, with Steve
Upson and I down the English River.
But then I had your son Curtis in my canoe going down the Savon
(08:02):
English trip, which was an outstanding thing.
It's just amazing that you know the full circle.
You know, the, the, how this happens at camp and it's, it's
not just us, the Coleman and theSimmons, it's this happens to a
lot of people and it's just, it's fun to see.
But those two kids were outstanding.
Well, the blood. The bloodline runs over what, at
(08:24):
least three generations? And maybe 4.
Right, right. Yeah.
Yeah, they just. But those guys were great.
We had so much fun with Jeff andso many stories on that trip
with him and Austin Gonsmueller,who's your nephew and, you know,
your sister's son. Austin.
Austin, yeah. And then?
(08:46):
All those, all those guys are still great friends and they
still come up during the summer.And in fact, Austin is building
a house there on Rainy Lake across from the, the Thunderbird
Lodge. And so he's, he's there and then
(09:07):
I'm my, my grandson was up this summer with, with our great
grandson and visiting with, withAustin where he's building his
new house over there across Thunderbird.
So yeah. There are 4 generations standing
there. That's I mean, it's great.
It's great to see you guys everyyear up there when I I know I go
(09:29):
up at the end and if you weren'tthere, we would notice like if
the Simmons family was not there, we noticed right away.
You know, we look for him right away.
And I know we're not the only ones that do that now.
The other one, the other and I don't know this story.
You're going to have to remind me what what was going on with
the you and my dad but and for those that don't know that he
(09:52):
was known as Bugsy at Cam Cooch with the foxes smoking the foxes
out of their dens on the eye. What I mean, what was this all?
About well, your dad and I were were good friends as well as
kind of a camper, counselor relationship with.
(10:12):
Anyway, we got busy. I guess that we were thinking we
had seen a fox out there going out along the Bear Trail or
whatever it was called. And then this north of the big
ball field, I think we thought we saw Dan Fox, Dan out there.
(10:33):
And we kind of convinced herselfby digging poop out of the hole
in the ground and saying, yeah, Oh yeah, this is fox poop.
And so we decided we'd see if wejust couldn't folks the smoke
that thing out. So we, we built a fire on one
(10:54):
end and then we found a hole on the other where we thought,
well, maybe that fox could get away.
So we plugged up the hole on theother side and put a bunch of
Moss in there and stuff and somedried kindling and let lit it on
fire. And sure enough, there was no
(11:19):
fox coming out of the ground andyour dad had to go on a canoe
trip that wasn't going with him the next day.
But sure enough, we put that fire out in the evening.
And then bugs went off on a tripthe next day and I came out
there just to make sure the firewasn't out.
And sure enough, there was smokecoming out of the hole on the
(11:41):
other end of the what I guess might have been the den.
And I spent the next actually two days going back to that
place and dumping water down thehole trying to get to the the
the smoke to quit smoking or getthe fire out.
It did take two days to finally convince myself the fire was out
(12:05):
because I had to go on a on a canoe trip myself that third
day. I mean, anyway, I I didn't want
to leave there and have the firecatch up, catch the darn island
Island. On fire your idea or his idea to
trap the fox? Smoke the Fox.
I might have just a joint dumb idea between us.
(12:25):
We're not going to. We're not get there anybody
under the bus. I know you got a ton of stories.
You know, I want to I want to get into the the startup of O
get you to this great, wonderfulgirls camp that we have now.
But before that you were an Arctic trip member, correct?
You took the Arctic. Well, it did.
(12:46):
The other one on the Hood River.And who, who was with you on
that trip and what do you remember?
I mean, what sticks out about that?
I mean, we've got a lot of teamsthat do that now.
You were one of the original groups that went out.
I'm sure you know well. The guys that the guys that I
went on that trip with were, we're some of my best friends
(13:07):
and still are today, notably notably Jim Van and Bart and his
brother Tom Van and Bart. And then a guy I grew up with
who was my best friend in Saint Louis, the guy by the name of
Nelson Spencer. Oh yeah.
(13:28):
And then it was Fred Patterson who who was on that trip since
passed and fellow by name of TomBloom, who's still a doctor in
in Minneapolis. And let's see who else we had on
that trip. I'm forgetting somebody.
(13:55):
Anyway, Tom and Jim and Nelson had actually been on a had taken
an Arctic trip the year before and I had been invited and they
went on the Copper Mine River. And then there in 1966, we took
a trip on the Hood River. Yeah.
(14:17):
How many days were you out? Do you remember?
Well, we left around, I'm going to say early June sometime and
we've added up about the 10th ofAugust up on the, on the, on the
Hood River above Willow Forest Falls up there, which is a
(14:40):
pretty significant falls. And then that was interesting
for me because I had just graduated from college that year
with a degree in geology. And when we got to the end there
(15:01):
the, the Hood River, we did, we really didn't have a good plan
to, to get out off the Arden coast there.
We had no arrangements. We ran into a, a mining camp
there on the toward the mouth the Hood River.
(15:22):
And we, the guy there, I, I became friends with the
geologist that was kind of leading the mining crew there.
And he said he was behind logging core samples and he
found out I was a geologist geologist and asked me if I
(15:45):
would help him log core and if I'd helping kind of get caught
up identifying the war and stuffthat's in the core samples.
Then in turn, they'd give us a flight out of they, they take
our whole trip and fly us back to Yellowknife in the Northwest
(16:05):
Territories. So that was kind of an unusual
and a trip and kind of the the back end of that story is then I
was backed up in that same location actually north of where
we ended the trip. For the next two years
(16:26):
afterwards, I was hired by the people that were running that
company to come up there and do some mapping up there.
And I actually turned that into my graduate thesis for to get my
master's degree. So well, anyway, one, one thing
(16:47):
always leads to that. That's right.
But it's a great time. I'm sure you guys great
adventure and you know, some of you guys, it's great.
You still got your friendship with all those guys.
And of course the van embarks. You know, we all know that name
too. You know what their what their
kids going to camp too, and thatthat's another group of some fun
(17:07):
characters too. Some.
Colorful people. We we, we all keep in touch
still. And yeah, it's great to great
friendships. And you, you have to say that
about about camp. That really builds some lifelong
friendships. Oh, some of the best.
Yeah, yeah. In, in, in, in socially and in
(17:30):
business actually so. Yeah, it's without a doubt.
Been rewarding, yeah. Yeah.
So let's talk about the, you know, you you've been, you were
the one of the, if not the big one big, you know, players
behind the the start of the O Getchi.
Can you can you take us through how this all came about?
I mean, this has been such a great success and such a great
(17:52):
addition for the camping and Education Foundation.
And you know, I know you had a lot to do with that.
And I think a lot of people liketo know and hear, you know, how
this all came about and, and your role in it.
And, and obviously you've done agood thing here.
Well, it's it's really like N ESthen a start up.
(18:17):
It comes in bits and pieces and actually they're then maybe at
least two other attempts to to perhaps get a girls camp off the
ground. And actually one was led earlier
on by by Tom Vandenbark, who we went on the Arctic trip with,
(18:41):
had a guy named Brad Schinkel. He had been a guy that was
interested in in that. And I guess what what got me
involved is as a as a younger geologist with the Amoco
company, I was involved working on field parties, mapping
(19:03):
parties in Alaska for a number of years.
And we always had, from time to time, we'd have young women,
young graduate geologist, femalegeologists assigned to our field
parties or field the expeditionsin Alaska.
(19:25):
And during those times, always thought, damn, why, why doesn't
Kuch Ching have a girls camp then?
You know, I was aware of that. There'd been some attempts to
get one going and then I guess 1summer around 2001 or 2002, and
(19:53):
I think it was the year before John Holden passed.
He had come to me and said, George, do me a favor.
Don't forget about the girls andso.
That was kind of a inspiration for me and I remember by times
(20:15):
working and camping with these girls in in Alaska doing field
work. And so in 2001, I got a group
together in Cincinnati and I wasjust kind of thinking about, you
might ask about that today. But there were, we got some
(20:38):
people together and in Cincinnati and and started AI
guess, if you will, an initiative really to get that
camp going. And the guy who probably was the
impetus really to drive it at that time was Jay Stair.
(20:59):
Jay Stair is no longer with us, but he had called and said, you
know, would you help me start a girls camp?
I said, well, I said I'm glad todo it.
But I said, you know, we're going to have to get serious
about it because there's been a couple of different run ups to
try to get that done. And it just loses momentum.
(21:22):
And people would say girls can'tdo this, girls can't do that.
And I told him I'd be glad to, to jump in on this, but you
know, I don't want to just come over, come away with a lot of
spend a lot of time and get nothing done.
And so I told him I'd, I'd be glad to head up a group to do
(21:45):
that. And Jay said, well, he said, I'm
not going to be able to spend a lot of time with you.
He said, I just, he said I'd like to see a girls camp start,
but I'm not going to be able to really work with you on that.
He says I'm really business withbusy with our family business.
Anyway, we did, we got a founders committee together with
(22:12):
the idea. Well, let's let's give it a
shot. And I just was been looking at a
piece of paper today and I was able to get a a number of people
together and we created a founders committee at that time
and some names you that might recognize they called Gina
Vanenbark, which was Jim and Tom's sister.
(22:33):
Yeah, I know, Janet. Sure.
And she she had been to a girls camp, Northland camp out of
Bemidji and and she had a great number of friends that she still
kept in touch with. And I said, would you jump in on
a committee to help start a girls camp?
She was all about it. And then we had a long time
(22:56):
photographer and great friend, had always been with the around.
Kuchicheng fell by name and that's who's no longer with us
and was all excited about a girls camp.
And then we had a gal by the name of Karen Strauss who had
been a camper at Northland Camp with Jenna Vandenbark.
(23:18):
She was interested, old time guy.
That's I think maybe still on the foundation board.
Jeff Patterson. Yeah.
Yeah, I saw him last summer. Yeah, sure.
Great guy. Jeff had daughters and he he
thought, boy yeah, a girls camp would be great.
So he got on this Founders committee and a fellow by name
(23:42):
of Terry Tierney, who was a son-in-law of Jim Woods, no
longer with us, but Jim had beena then then the president of the
Camp in Education Foundation. He was a great friend from Saint
Louis. We'd I'd gone to high school
with. And then, of course, Jim shook
(24:06):
who you know, who is chairman ofthe foundation.
And so Jim threw in with us and off we went.
There were times when this little Founders committee would
meet and we had people drop off from time to time.
We'd have others that would join.
(24:28):
But by the time we got got really the camp got it founded
and got it blessed by the camp and Education Foundation.
We we had a great time doing it and.
Now at that time was Rainy Lake Lodge.
Had we owned it when you guys started the.
That's that's where my parents stayed.
(24:50):
And when? Of course, when my brother and I
first went. To.
Stayed at the lodge, in fact thethe girls camp, the director's
cabin sits right on top of my mother's ashes.
Oh wow. That are buried there up to
girls camp. But yeah, it just was a it was a
(25:16):
great effort we made, I think wemade some enemies along the way.
There were a lot of people that said that there was no way girls
could could do trips like the boys do and they couldn't carry
a wanigan. And you know, the that's all
baloney. And then the rest of its
(25:37):
history. That's right, girls campus that
off and running for 25 years so.And they're already taking trips
to the Arctic. I mean, it, it's outstanding.
I mean, to hear their stories and, and the fun that they're
having just as much, it just, it's great.
I mean, and I know I have three sisters.
I'm sure they would have loved to have been able to do this too
(25:59):
back in their day, you know? It's, it's, it's a nice success
story and you know, there were just a lot of people as we, as
we started to gain some momentumand the idea started to catch
on. Or I mean, there's been a lot of
people step up and it really be a part of, of the, of that girls
(26:20):
camp. Like, like any organization, you
know, maybe there's one or two people who get a idea that are
willing to stand up and defend it and, and move it forward and,
and you know, it, it was a natural thing.
You know, the time we talked about starting the girls camp,
(26:43):
people said, well, you, you got to have some background about
girls camps. Well, that was easy to find
because at the time, statistically there were more
girls in the United States attending overnight summer camps
than there were boys. So there was a market for it.
(27:03):
There's always been a market forit.
I think that you know, as as yougrew up at Couch where everybody
was so gung ho and was so masculine that nobody thought,
well, the girls can do this, but.
Oh, they're doing it. They're doing it all right.
They're. They're doing it.
They're doing it and I, I think,I think, you know, obviously
(27:26):
your, your foundation group thatthat got this going was huge was
the whole foundation of it. But I think to from the outside
looking in a little bit, not completely outside looking in,
but a little bit. Two of the people I think were
key in this was our our initial director, Kathy Dicks was was a
great person to have to start this thing.
(27:46):
She was on the she was on the Founders Committee.
Yep, I think she was great at atthat time, you know, for our
just get this thing going and did a great job.
And then the other the other couple, they're good friends of
mine, Bart and Peggy Ballmer. I mean what they've done in the
build out that Bart's done and and Peggy right by his side.
I mean, but without them, I don't know where where that
(28:07):
place would be just because I know what he does, you know,
he's. Incredible.
That's true because Bart and Peggy had, you know, been over
Kuch Jing and Bart had been partof Kuch Jing for years.
And I think after we got going about, oh, I don't know, about
three years, 4th year maybe in into the girls camp, we just, we
(28:31):
couldn't get cooks and, and so Peggy had volunteered to come
over and cook and Bart said, well, I want to go over there
and be part of the, the build out whatever of, of the girls
camp. And sure enough, he came over
and so much of the buildings that you see today on the
(28:53):
campsite of Ogunji are, are thanks to Bart.
I mean, he's, he's put in a career there and I, I would say
he's literally as the, as much of the founder of, of the girls
camp as anybody. I mean, he's there.
There's not a screw or nail at any of those buildings that that
(29:14):
Bart didn't have his hand. Yeah.
So it's and and Peggy, she's runthat kitchen and all the dietary
portion of the of the camp. She, she's just a really a great
lady. Oh, they're, they're both great.
They're great friends. And I know, you know, I talked
to them a lot and they just absolutely love that place and
(29:35):
love the kids there. And it's like it's their own
kids, you know, that's how they treat them.
But they're they're outstanding people, so.
Great friends, yeah. Good, good friend.
So I, I got to ask you this too.I mean, where, where, where did,
where did Jackie come from? I mean, everybody that right,
(29:56):
Everybody that knows. I mean, what's up, Jackie?
Just just growing up back in Webster St.
Saint Louis, we, we, we had somefriends that would wander
through our neighborhood all thetime.
And we, we, we just refer to each other as Jack all the
(30:21):
times. And these boys would yell out
and say, say, Hey, what's up today, Jack?
And that just caught on so. Well, and your and your kids
knew about it and you're, you're, they were like a chip
off of you. I don't know if you know this or
not, but you know, I, I rememberyou doing the boogerman dance at
(30:42):
Kuching and of course you're, you're patented rolling the
stomach, which was hilarious. But we had a little kid come to
a camp was a little dinky prep one, your name of Curtis and I,
he got up on the diving board and rolled his stomach and did a
1 1/2 flip off the diving board and said, that's a Simmons right
there. That's George's boy right there.
(31:04):
He just, he rolled his stomach just like you did.
I was losing it. It was so good.
Well. Curtis.
Has been a great, great friend. And yeah, you know, I didn't
mention Curtis here associated with the girls camp, but he was
all about it. And I can tell you that when we,
(31:29):
when we first got down to talking about the girls camp and
how we were going to get that launched and it it, it wasn't
easy. There was a lot of resistance
from people, kind of people who couldn't understand that the
girls could do the Kuch Ching kind of tripping and whatever.
(31:52):
But anyway, when we first decided, yeah, we're going to
have a first inaugural girls canoe trip, we wondered who's
going to lead the darn thing. And the first guy came to my
mind was Curtis. And then we thought, well, who?
(32:13):
Who else could do that? And we thought of another one of
Curtis's good friend, Hank Banger.
Hank Banger? Sure.
I understand it now, Hank has four girls or something to go to
O getchi and but Hank and Kurt took the first girls trip out.
(32:36):
Where did they go? Do you remember?
They went on a turtle. River Turtle River, OK.
Yeah, yeah. And of course you're going to
take 10 teenage girls. And Kurt, I think was only like
18 at the time, and Hank Banger was maybe a year younger.
(32:57):
So now we were going to take 10 teenage girls, and the oldest
one actually was 17, I think on a school bus across the Canadian
border there and go on the Turtle River.
And we got thinking, well, how these two older teenage guys
(33:21):
with this busload of girls goingto get through customs without
being questioned. Well, we thought best thing,
we'd better get a couple of adult women, probably older than
those boys to go on a trip. So we got Kathy Dicks.
That's. What I thought was.
Always been behind that, that she's always been on the
(33:42):
founders committee for a girls camp, she said.
I'll, I'll go. And then another guy by the name
of Karen Straws who had been camper with Janet Vandenbark at
back in the day and at Northland.
(34:02):
So those two guys, Hank and Curtis and and Kathy and Karen
took these 10 girls on the Turtle Rivers for 10 days and it
it was a hit. The rest, the rest is history.
That's great. But we asked them and, you know,
on that trip we had just trying to think anyway, there's still
(34:31):
some girls associated with girlscamp and who actually years
later took an Arctic trip. OK, that had been on that trip
and the name's escaped me now, but you know, it just it worked,
right? Right.
So. That it's that kicked it off and
(34:53):
it's, you know how strong it is now.
It's it, it's great. So let, let's go back to your,
your cooch days. I mean, anything that sticks
out, George, I mean that. I mean that, that trips or
people or you know, what this place has done for you in your
life outside of camp. I mean, do you still, what do
(35:13):
you, what do you contribute campto helping you with anything
like that? I know I just fired about 8
questions at you there, but I'lllet you take it.
You know, you have some, you have some special people that
you that you remember from camp and people who, who he idolized
and whatever. And I, I guess one of them for
(35:33):
me was John Holden, who again was one who came to me and said,
you know, do me a favor. Don't forget getting behind the
girls camp. And so that that certainly is a
person who's been, you know, just his demeanor, the way he he
(35:56):
did things, the way he managed was an inspiration for my adult
life. And I I miss the guy Terrible
still. Well, and you know how brilliant
he was, George, but what makes me think that he's even more
brilliant is that now we know hepicked the right guy to to head
this up in you. And he was smart enough to do
(36:18):
things like that and know who topick and who does who together
and to know that it was going toget done.
And I, I commend him that he chose you and said that to you.
And obviously you were the rightguy because look where we are
today. So I hear you about Johnny was a
great man. Yeah, one another, I guess it's
another person. And I guess to me, what makes my
(36:41):
memories great of any of anything I've ever been involved
in is the is the people that areinvolved.
And so, you know, you have you have John Holden.
And then as far as camp goes, the guy that I admired growing
up and became I guess one of my very closest friends was Tim
(37:02):
Hindley. And of course, Tim is gone too
early, but Tim and I just becamegreat friends at camp.
Later when he lived in Colorado and even before he lived there,
we, we, we skied together and our families, you know, tripped
(37:27):
around together. We're on the board together of
camp three years and of the foundation.
And of course, he was the chair of the foundation for several
times. And then he was the director of
Hooch and all that. And but anyway, that's a that's
a guy who just lifelong values that would both shared.
(37:52):
And yeah, it's I I miss Tim to this day and still still see Joe
and highly once a week in the either in the summer or down
here in Florida. She lives not far from us.
And then of course, her sons, Tim and Steve.
(38:14):
It's Cindy, of course, his daughter.
And anyway, that Hindley family's just been a a great
memory for me. Yeah, they're special.
I, I, I, I can, I understand when you're coming.
Tim and my mom were in the same kindergarten class together.
That's how far back they go. And I know my, I think my father
was in their wedding even. And then of course, Steven,
(38:36):
Steve and I are best of friends from camp.
So, right, I, I, I certainly hear what you're saying about
and we do miss him terribly. Yeah, and then another, another
relationship, of course is your dad bugs and and your mom.
I mean, you know, those, those memories being canoeing with
(38:58):
bugs and and yet your mother andduring preseason would always
prepare and get lunch together for anybody that was around the
island preseason, you know, a month before camp started.
And and, you know, it's just andthey they're a great part of my
(39:20):
memories. And of course, then your
brothers and sisters same, same way.
Yeah. Yeah, It's, it's, it's I, I
guess the, the whole Cooch experience is, has been just
families that we've known all those years and still, still see
(39:43):
them. We see their grandkids at camp,
you know, And yeah, that's it's.I love Steven Simmons name to.
Me the whole to me the whole camp experience is is the
relationship should make no doubt with yeah.
Yeah, I mean, look, look at the friendship you and I have after
(40:04):
all these. Years.
It's great. Yeah.
Well, I used to call Tim a lot, and now, now you.
Now I'm doing this with you. You know, they get a couple
chuckles here and there about some old things here and there.
Yes, we yes, we have some of therotative games and things.
Oh, yeah. So, hey, real quick, is there
any is you have, I mean, I've heard you say so many stories
(40:25):
and we've I know we've got to becareful with the stories we
share, but anything that jumps out that was just so funny.
I mean that you remember it all from camp.
I mean, I'm sure there's so many, it's hard for you to pull
one or two out. But I don't know what you and
I've been walking out of paths. You'll break one out and I just
start I'm I'm on the ground laughing.
I can't stop laughing. And then and then Tim Hinely saw
(40:46):
us laughing and he ran over and said, hey, what's going on here?
I need to hear what just happened, you know, And awe, I
don't know if you can remember anything or not.
That jumps out with the Vanden Barks.
I mean, there was a story about a bear that someone, I thought
someone put a bear in Holden's cab.
And was that true? Yeah, but that that I didn't
(41:07):
have anything to do with that. We we actually brought a bear
from Rainy Lake Lodge 11 eveningright before Grand Council.
Kind of a dumb of a dumb stunt. Was a cub though.
(41:29):
Yeah, we, we, there were a couple of bear Cubs that were
growing up over at at the old Rainy Lake Lodge where the girls
camp is now. Those Cubs were feeding in the
garbage dump up there where the shop is actually for the girls
camp. And so we we thought we'd bring
(41:55):
a cub over to camp. Really a kind of a dumb idea,
but. Where'd you put it?
Well, we the thing was we went up and and grabbed this cub over
Rainy Lake Lodge and we brought it and put it in the storm boat
(42:19):
and we brought it over to Cooch.We thought that might be cute.
And by the time we got over there, John Holden was already
standing on the main dock. OK.
And said, you boys, you get thatbear back over to Rain Lake
(42:41):
Lodge. Over the time we got up back
over there, the mother was down on the main dock over any lake
lodge where the swimming dock isnow for the girls camp.
And that bear boy was standing up and hind seat and smelling
(43:01):
and smell is coming. And we just kind of cruised by
the the dock and threw the bear little the cub in the water.
And John Holden was really mad. I mean, that was not a good
(43:21):
start. Well, I'm sure he had some
chores for you the next day. That's the way he was, you know.
Yeah, he kind of knew what was going on and you had to pay the
piper the next day. Yeah, not that's that's such a
good idea. Well, is there any one other one
that jumps out? I mean, I won't go too much
longer, but. Well, there is one.
(43:49):
Probably six of us when we were on the staff.
We're going to go over to Canadaand.
This is like early 60s. Yeah, the idea came up to hassle
the Border Patrol people. I don't know why we had that
(44:12):
idea, but we we got in the car of the doc holidays.
Oh yeah. Man, there's a great day from
the past. Doc Holiday had a little Ford
Falcon and you could barely get 6 people in that cars.
(44:35):
And so we, we, we didn't actually, so we were going to
just kind of go over and hassle with the, with the Border
Patrol. There were six of us and four of
us were in the car and two people got in the trunk of the
car. And so we went flying over the
(44:59):
bridge to the Canadian side, circled around the Canadian
place where you're supposed to stop, circled the car around and
speed back over the US side. We never stopped at the customs.
We just circled their customs building with the time we got
back over to the US side, driving across where the red
(45:24):
lights were flashing and people,the US customs guys were
standing blocking the road. And we got over there and you
know how they come up to the carand say, where you guys been?
Well, that just that, that that didn't work out so well.
(45:50):
Joe, Joe Holiday, who was driving the car, he looked out
at the custom guy and said, in answer to his question of where
he'd been, he said, we've been to Canada.
What what's it to you? And the guy said get out,
everybody come inside. And anyway, we all got an
(46:13):
official reprimand from the United States government.
And by the time we got back to camp that night, John Holden
seems to know when troubles coming, just like with the bear.
He's standing on the dock to meet us.
(46:34):
And he says, OK, you boys, I'll talk to you in the morning.
You better go to your cabins. And anyway, that just was not a
good, good start, you know? And probably not a fun night's
sleep for you that night either.Yeah, not, not a yeah.
We spent a lot of time picking up shells down in the rifle
(46:57):
race. Oh yeah?
Oh yeah, Hauling popped on something.
Well, George, you know, we couldgo on forever.
I know, But I just I want to endthis today to say just a few
things. You know, obviously you, you've
given so much of your time and talent and treasure to the to
(47:17):
this place, both the Coochie Ching and Ogichi and then the
whole foundation and you, you did it.
So, you know, I was a young kid,I could enjoy it and your kids
could enjoy it. And, you know, I think I speak
for everybody to say how grateful we are for people like
you and the, and the other ones that have done that.
And it's fun for me to come backand do these things now and to
(47:38):
meet with our alumni and to be apart of it.
Because I think, I think it's hard to turn now to carry the
torch that you guys have carriedto get us to where we are now.
And, you know, I just hope a lotof the people from my era and
the, and the eras before me are ready to, to, to step up and
share some of these stories and,and to help carry this place
that's still doing so much to touch the boys and girls, the
(48:01):
young kids and helping them out.If there's ever a time that we
need to camp with today's world,with technology and what have
you, now's the time and, and now's the time that we really
need to step up and, and, and make this place great.
And again, I, I can't thank you enough for, you know, all you've
done for camp, Most importantly for being a good friend of mine
(48:24):
and being a great friend of my family's and my parents.
And I just can't wait to get back up to see you again next
summer. And I'm sure I'll be calling you
quite a bit so we can make sure we got the proper rotative games
and little council games ready to go for that evening.
So, But hey, thanks Ben. What's that?
(48:46):
And it's been fun. Yeah, right.
We didn't even, we didn't even mention boys of winter we can
talk about. Well, that's I mean, that's a
whole another story. Yeah.
But listen. Well, we can do another one
eventually about the boys of winter.
We can come back and do this again.
But give our best to Ruthie George.
You're the best man. We love you.
(49:07):
And you know, can't wait to cross pass here again soon.
Thanks Cole all. Right, buddy, we'll talk.
Take care, pal. Love you.
See you. All right.
Bye. Bye bye.
Welcome to the Great Central Fire.
In our new episode we have George Simmons joining us.
A long time Camp Cooch member and served on the board for many
years. We had a great conversation
talking about how he got involved in camp back in the
50s, a funny story about flipping a canoe, Arctic trip,
(00:20):
stories starting O Getchi and some key people that he admired
during his time up north. So sit back, relax, and I hope
you enjoy our talk with George Simmons.
Boy, this is going to be a fun one today on this episode of the
(00:41):
Great Central Fire. I've been looking forward to
this special guest. I can't wait to sit down and I'm
sure there's going to be a million stories today.
We have George Simmons joining us.
George, I would say that if there was a Mount Rushmore for
Cam Kuchicheng, the Simmons namewould certainly be one of the
(01:03):
one of the names up there for sure.
But we thank you for joining us today and how you doing.
Pretty well, thanks. Good.
Although I had a little dental work this morning so.
OK, George, I mean from Saint Louis, How how did you remember
how your family found out about camp?
I mean, do you remember back? Can you remember where you and I
think your first summer as a camper was in 54 if I remember,
(01:25):
if that's correct? Yeah, I, I saw a Tump line
article some some days ago though that said 52 and I I
think that's wrong. I'm, I'm kind of pretty sure 54
was the the year and we we ran into camp through a guy named
(01:48):
Stubb. Mole.
Oh, OK. Wow, wow.
Back then who was a football coach at University High School,
another community there in SaintLouis where where we grew up.
But camp was a a thing of our family.
(02:09):
My dad had gone to camp when he was young and my older brother
Paul had gone or Simi had gone to camp and a year before out in
Colorado. And then he and I both went to a
a boys camp, actually a boys andgirls camp in central Minnesota
(02:31):
called Camp Lincoln. I think I went there when I was
11 or 10 or something. OK.
When we went there just one one year, that was yeah, Camp
Lincoln. OK.
Anyway, anyway then we ran into this guy Stubbed Mall from
(02:53):
University City and he I think he introduced this to to Kuchi
Chang back in the day. OK.
And then and then another brother you had go there, David,
and, and, and of course, your sister's son.
Younger brother David, yeah, when he was, he went, he went a
(03:13):
long time and yeah, son went. Oh yeah, I know, I know.
Your sons will get to them. There's a yeah, there's a good
family history in there. And now in professionally,
George, you're retired now what what, what you were in the oil
business, correct? Is that were you always in that?
(03:34):
No, pretty much in oil and gas business whole time exploration
side. OK.
And you were down in Texas for awhile, I if I remember right.
Well, I started my career down in Fort Worth with the old Pan
American company that was later brought out by Amoco Corporation
(04:00):
that now is a part of the British Petroleum.
OK, Yeah, OK. Like, like, like all the
industries kind of went through a number of mergers and
whatever. Yeah.
OK, retire now living the good life here in Florida and and you
still spend your. Suppers pretty much retired and
we moved to to Florida here two years ago.
(04:24):
OK, And still have your place atGrindstone up on Rainy Lake?
Oh yeah, We've, we've had that since 199097.
We've had a place there on Grindstone Island and we, we, we
sure enjoy it. We go there every summer now.
Yep, vanquished then. Right?
(04:45):
Right at six months there. It's great.
Hard to get away from that place, isn't it?
Once it's in you, it's in you. It is, yeah.
It's there's some roots there since 1954 or whatever.
Well, I remember as a kid, like if I remember, I mean, the whole
(05:05):
Simmons clan would like run out,basically the whole island view.
Your, your parents came up and, and I, you know, I just remember
going over there. That was just such a big thing
for me as a young kid in the camper.
And of course my parents up there was the final week and all
of the alumni coming back and seeing all that was such a big
thing. And, and your family was such a
big part of that. Well, they, they were over the
(05:27):
years, you know, from the time they sent us to camp, they, it
seemed like they always came up for a visit either at mid season
or at the end of the season to, to visit.
And then dad became a great friend of John Holden's back in
(05:48):
the day and then also served on,on the board of directors that
he had and actually was on the board, I think with when John
was leading the, the founding ofthe the Camping and Education
Foundation to, to get Cooch on anonprofit basis.
(06:11):
And anyway that I can, I can remember those days and John and
John and dad were great friends and, you know, drank a lot of
whiskey together. We're we're good friends.
(06:33):
That's great. No, that's 222 great people and
you know, big part of this placewhere we are today.
That's that's for sure. You were.
My dad has told me a few storiesand I like to tell stories.
So boy. But you, he had, you were in his
(06:57):
canoe one time and coming back or somewhere a few times, you
flip this canoe because it was hot, too hot.
What? What was that all about?
Well, it I can I can remember wewere paddling down the lake is
dead quiet and the sun was just beaming down.
(07:17):
It was probably 90° and he was astern man and he was kind of
complaining about the heat. So I stood up on the gun, all
the the canoe and tipped us over.
What do you say? He wasn't very happy about that.
All the gear floating around in the lakes.
Probably got a cigarette sweat or something.
That's what probably that's whatprobably made him mad.
(07:39):
Couldn't have got his smoke wet,no doubt.
But this is what's great about this place, too, Georgia.
So that you were in my dad's canoe and then I had your son
Jeff on a trip. He was not in my canoe.
He was in a camper canoe with his cousin Austin, with Steve
Upson and I down the English River.
But then I had your son Curtis in my canoe going down the Savon
(08:02):
English trip, which was an outstanding thing.
It's just amazing that you know the full circle.
You know, the, the, how this happens at camp and it's, it's
not just us, the Coleman and theSimmons, it's this happens to a
lot of people and it's just, it's fun to see.
But those two kids were outstanding.
Well, the blood. The bloodline runs over what, at
(08:24):
least three generations? And maybe 4.
Right, right. Yeah.
Yeah, they just. But those guys were great.
We had so much fun with Jeff andso many stories on that trip
with him and Austin Gonsmueller,who's your nephew and, you know,
your sister's son. Austin.
Austin, yeah. And then?
(08:46):
All those, all those guys are still great friends and they
still come up during the summer.And in fact, Austin is building
a house there on Rainy Lake across from the, the Thunderbird
Lodge. And so he's, he's there and then
(09:07):
I'm my, my grandson was up this summer with, with our great
grandson and visiting with, withAustin where he's building his
new house over there across Thunderbird.
So yeah. There are 4 generations standing
there. That's I mean, it's great.
It's great to see you guys everyyear up there when I I know I go
(09:29):
up at the end and if you weren'tthere, we would notice like if
the Simmons family was not there, we noticed right away.
You know, we look for him right away.
And I know we're not the only ones that do that now.
The other one, the other and I don't know this story.
You're going to have to remind me what what was going on with
the you and my dad but and for those that don't know that he
(09:52):
was known as Bugsy at Cam Cooch with the foxes smoking the foxes
out of their dens on the eye. What I mean, what was this all?
About well, your dad and I were were good friends as well as
kind of a camper, counselor relationship with.
(10:12):
Anyway, we got busy. I guess that we were thinking we
had seen a fox out there going out along the Bear Trail or
whatever it was called. And then this north of the big
ball field, I think we thought we saw Dan Fox, Dan out there.
(10:33):
And we kind of convinced herselfby digging poop out of the hole
in the ground and saying, yeah, Oh yeah, this is fox poop.
And so we decided we'd see if wejust couldn't folks the smoke
that thing out. So we, we built a fire on one
(10:54):
end and then we found a hole on the other where we thought,
well, maybe that fox could get away.
So we plugged up the hole on theother side and put a bunch of
Moss in there and stuff and somedried kindling and let lit it on
fire. And sure enough, there was no
(11:19):
fox coming out of the ground andyour dad had to go on a canoe
trip that wasn't going with him the next day.
But sure enough, we put that fire out in the evening.
And then bugs went off on a tripthe next day and I came out
there just to make sure the firewasn't out.
And sure enough, there was smokecoming out of the hole on the
(11:41):
other end of the what I guess might have been the den.
And I spent the next actually two days going back to that
place and dumping water down thehole trying to get to the the
the smoke to quit smoking or getthe fire out.
It did take two days to finally convince myself the fire was out
(12:05):
because I had to go on a on a canoe trip myself that third
day. I mean, anyway, I I didn't want
to leave there and have the firecatch up, catch the darn island
Island. On fire your idea or his idea to
trap the fox? Smoke the Fox.
I might have just a joint dumb idea between us.
(12:25):
We're not going to. We're not get there anybody
under the bus. I know you got a ton of stories.
You know, I want to I want to get into the the startup of O
get you to this great, wonderfulgirls camp that we have now.
But before that you were an Arctic trip member, correct?
You took the Arctic. Well, it did.
(12:46):
The other one on the Hood River.And who, who was with you on
that trip and what do you remember?
I mean, what sticks out about that?
I mean, we've got a lot of teamsthat do that now.
You were one of the original groups that went out.
I'm sure you know well. The guys that the guys that I
went on that trip with were, we're some of my best friends
(13:07):
and still are today, notably notably Jim Van and Bart and his
brother Tom Van and Bart. And then a guy I grew up with
who was my best friend in Saint Louis, the guy by the name of
Nelson Spencer. Oh yeah.
(13:28):
And then it was Fred Patterson who who was on that trip since
passed and fellow by name of TomBloom, who's still a doctor in
in Minneapolis. And let's see who else we had on
that trip. I'm forgetting somebody.
(13:55):
Anyway, Tom and Jim and Nelson had actually been on a had taken
an Arctic trip the year before and I had been invited and they
went on the Copper Mine River. And then there in 1966, we took
a trip on the Hood River. Yeah.
(14:17):
How many days were you out? Do you remember?
Well, we left around, I'm going to say early June sometime and
we've added up about the 10th ofAugust up on the, on the, on the
Hood River above Willow Forest Falls up there, which is a
(14:40):
pretty significant falls. And then that was interesting
for me because I had just graduated from college that year
with a degree in geology. And when we got to the end there
(15:01):
the, the Hood River, we did, we really didn't have a good plan
to, to get out off the Arden coast there.
We had no arrangements. We ran into a, a mining camp
there on the toward the mouth the Hood River.
(15:22):
And we, the guy there, I, I became friends with the
geologist that was kind of leading the mining crew there.
And he said he was behind logging core samples and he
found out I was a geologist geologist and asked me if I
(15:45):
would help him log core and if I'd helping kind of get caught
up identifying the war and stuffthat's in the core samples.
Then in turn, they'd give us a flight out of they, they take
our whole trip and fly us back to Yellowknife in the Northwest
(16:05):
Territories. So that was kind of an unusual
and a trip and kind of the the back end of that story is then I
was backed up in that same location actually north of where
we ended the trip. For the next two years
(16:26):
afterwards, I was hired by the people that were running that
company to come up there and do some mapping up there.
And I actually turned that into my graduate thesis for to get my
master's degree. So well, anyway, one, one thing
(16:47):
always leads to that. That's right.
But it's a great time. I'm sure you guys great
adventure and you know, some of you guys, it's great.
You still got your friendship with all those guys.
And of course the van embarks. You know, we all know that name
too. You know what their what their
kids going to camp too, and thatthat's another group of some fun
(17:07):
characters too. Some.
Colorful people. We we, we all keep in touch
still. And yeah, it's great to great
friendships. And you, you have to say that
about about camp. That really builds some lifelong
friendships. Oh, some of the best.
Yeah, yeah. In, in, in, in socially and in
(17:30):
business actually so. Yeah, it's without a doubt.
Been rewarding, yeah. Yeah.
So let's talk about the, you know, you you've been, you were
the one of the, if not the big one big, you know, players
behind the the start of the O Getchi.
Can you can you take us through how this all came about?
I mean, this has been such a great success and such a great
(17:52):
addition for the camping and Education Foundation.
And you know, I know you had a lot to do with that.
And I think a lot of people liketo know and hear, you know, how
this all came about and, and your role in it.
And, and obviously you've done agood thing here.
Well, it's it's really like N ESthen a start up.
(18:17):
It comes in bits and pieces and actually they're then maybe at
least two other attempts to to perhaps get a girls camp off the
ground. And actually one was led earlier
on by by Tom Vandenbark, who we went on the Arctic trip with,
(18:41):
had a guy named Brad Schinkel. He had been a guy that was
interested in in that. And I guess what what got me
involved is as a as a younger geologist with the Amoco
company, I was involved working on field parties, mapping
(19:03):
parties in Alaska for a number of years.
And we always had, from time to time, we'd have young women,
young graduate geologist, femalegeologists assigned to our field
parties or field the expeditionsin Alaska.
(19:25):
And during those times, always thought, damn, why, why doesn't
Kuch Ching have a girls camp then?
You know, I was aware of that. There'd been some attempts to
get one going and then I guess 1summer around 2001 or 2002, and
(19:53):
I think it was the year before John Holden passed.
He had come to me and said, George, do me a favor.
Don't forget about the girls andso.
That was kind of a inspiration for me and I remember by times
(20:15):
working and camping with these girls in in Alaska doing field
work. And so in 2001, I got a group
together in Cincinnati and I wasjust kind of thinking about, you
might ask about that today. But there were, we got some
(20:38):
people together and in Cincinnati and and started AI
guess, if you will, an initiative really to get that
camp going. And the guy who probably was the
impetus really to drive it at that time was Jay Stair.
(20:59):
Jay Stair is no longer with us, but he had called and said, you
know, would you help me start a girls camp?
I said, well, I said I'm glad todo it.
But I said, you know, we're going to have to get serious
about it because there's been a couple of different run ups to
try to get that done. And it just loses momentum.
(21:22):
And people would say girls can'tdo this, girls can't do that.
And I told him I'd be glad to, to jump in on this, but you
know, I don't want to just come over, come away with a lot of
spend a lot of time and get nothing done.
And so I told him I'd, I'd be glad to head up a group to do
(21:45):
that. And Jay said, well, he said, I'm
not going to be able to spend a lot of time with you.
He said, I just, he said I'd like to see a girls camp start,
but I'm not going to be able to really work with you on that.
He says I'm really business withbusy with our family business.
Anyway, we did, we got a founders committee together with
(22:12):
the idea. Well, let's let's give it a
shot. And I just was been looking at a
piece of paper today and I was able to get a a number of people
together and we created a founders committee at that time
and some names you that might recognize they called Gina
Vanenbark, which was Jim and Tom's sister.
(22:33):
Yeah, I know, Janet. Sure.
And she she had been to a girls camp, Northland camp out of
Bemidji and and she had a great number of friends that she still
kept in touch with. And I said, would you jump in on
a committee to help start a girls camp?
She was all about it. And then we had a long time
(22:56):
photographer and great friend, had always been with the around.
Kuchicheng fell by name and that's who's no longer with us
and was all excited about a girls camp.
And then we had a gal by the name of Karen Strauss who had
been a camper at Northland Camp with Jenna Vandenbark.
(23:18):
She was interested, old time guy.
That's I think maybe still on the foundation board.
Jeff Patterson. Yeah.
Yeah, I saw him last summer. Yeah, sure.
Great guy. Jeff had daughters and he he
thought, boy yeah, a girls camp would be great.
So he got on this Founders committee and a fellow by name
(23:42):
of Terry Tierney, who was a son-in-law of Jim Woods, no
longer with us, but Jim had beena then then the president of the
Camp in Education Foundation. He was a great friend from Saint
Louis. We'd I'd gone to high school
with. And then, of course, Jim shook
(24:06):
who you know, who is chairman ofthe foundation.
And so Jim threw in with us and off we went.
There were times when this little Founders committee would
meet and we had people drop off from time to time.
We'd have others that would join.
(24:28):
But by the time we got got really the camp got it founded
and got it blessed by the camp and Education Foundation.
We we had a great time doing it and.
Now at that time was Rainy Lake Lodge.
Had we owned it when you guys started the.
That's that's where my parents stayed.
(24:50):
And when? Of course, when my brother and I
first went. To.
Stayed at the lodge, in fact thethe girls camp, the director's
cabin sits right on top of my mother's ashes.
Oh wow. That are buried there up to
girls camp. But yeah, it just was a it was a
(25:16):
great effort we made, I think wemade some enemies along the way.
There were a lot of people that said that there was no way girls
could could do trips like the boys do and they couldn't carry
a wanigan. And you know, the that's all
baloney. And then the rest of its
(25:37):
history. That's right, girls campus that
off and running for 25 years so.And they're already taking trips
to the Arctic. I mean, it, it's outstanding.
I mean, to hear their stories and, and the fun that they're
having just as much, it just, it's great.
I mean, and I know I have three sisters.
I'm sure they would have loved to have been able to do this too
(25:59):
back in their day, you know? It's, it's, it's a nice success
story and you know, there were just a lot of people as we, as
we started to gain some momentumand the idea started to catch
on. Or I mean, there's been a lot of
people step up and it really be a part of, of the, of that girls
(26:20):
camp. Like, like any organization, you
know, maybe there's one or two people who get a idea that are
willing to stand up and defend it and, and move it forward and,
and you know, it, it was a natural thing.
You know, the time we talked about starting the girls camp,
(26:43):
people said, well, you, you got to have some background about
girls camps. Well, that was easy to find
because at the time, statistically there were more
girls in the United States attending overnight summer camps
than there were boys. So there was a market for it.
(27:03):
There's always been a market forit.
I think that you know, as as yougrew up at Couch where everybody
was so gung ho and was so masculine that nobody thought,
well, the girls can do this, but.
Oh, they're doing it. They're doing it all right.
They're. They're doing it.
They're doing it and I, I think,I think, you know, obviously
(27:26):
your, your foundation group thatthat got this going was huge was
the whole foundation of it. But I think to from the outside
looking in a little bit, not completely outside looking in,
but a little bit. Two of the people I think were
key in this was our our initial director, Kathy Dicks was was a
great person to have to start this thing.
(27:46):
She was on the she was on the Founders Committee.
Yep, I think she was great at atthat time, you know, for our
just get this thing going and did a great job.
And then the other the other couple, they're good friends of
mine, Bart and Peggy Ballmer. I mean what they've done in the
build out that Bart's done and and Peggy right by his side.
I mean, but without them, I don't know where where that
(28:07):
place would be just because I know what he does, you know,
he's. Incredible.
That's true because Bart and Peggy had, you know, been over
Kuch Jing and Bart had been partof Kuch Jing for years.
And I think after we got going about, oh, I don't know, about
three years, 4th year maybe in into the girls camp, we just, we
(28:31):
couldn't get cooks and, and so Peggy had volunteered to come
over and cook and Bart said, well, I want to go over there
and be part of the, the build out whatever of, of the girls
camp. And sure enough, he came over
and so much of the buildings that you see today on the
(28:53):
campsite of Ogunji are, are thanks to Bart.
I mean, he's, he's put in a career there and I, I would say
he's literally as the, as much of the founder of, of the girls
camp as anybody. I mean, he's there.
There's not a screw or nail at any of those buildings that that
(29:14):
Bart didn't have his hand. Yeah.
So it's and and Peggy, she's runthat kitchen and all the dietary
portion of the of the camp. She, she's just a really a great
lady. Oh, they're, they're both great.
They're great friends. And I know, you know, I talked
to them a lot and they just absolutely love that place and
(29:35):
love the kids there. And it's like it's their own
kids, you know, that's how they treat them.
But they're they're outstanding people, so.
Great friends, yeah. Good, good friend.
So I, I got to ask you this too.I mean, where, where, where did,
where did Jackie come from? I mean, everybody that right,
(29:56):
Everybody that knows. I mean, what's up, Jackie?
Just just growing up back in Webster St.
Saint Louis, we, we, we had somefriends that would wander
through our neighborhood all thetime.
And we, we, we just refer to each other as Jack all the
(30:21):
times. And these boys would yell out
and say, say, Hey, what's up today, Jack?
And that just caught on so. Well, and your and your kids
knew about it and you're, you're, they were like a chip
off of you. I don't know if you know this or
not, but you know, I, I rememberyou doing the boogerman dance at
(30:42):
Kuching and of course you're, you're patented rolling the
stomach, which was hilarious. But we had a little kid come to
a camp was a little dinky prep one, your name of Curtis and I,
he got up on the diving board and rolled his stomach and did a
1 1/2 flip off the diving board and said, that's a Simmons right
there. That's George's boy right there.
(31:04):
He just, he rolled his stomach just like you did.
I was losing it. It was so good.
Well. Curtis.
Has been a great, great friend. And yeah, you know, I didn't
mention Curtis here associated with the girls camp, but he was
all about it. And I can tell you that when we,
(31:29):
when we first got down to talking about the girls camp and
how we were going to get that launched and it it, it wasn't
easy. There was a lot of resistance
from people, kind of people who couldn't understand that the
girls could do the Kuch Ching kind of tripping and whatever.
(31:52):
But anyway, when we first decided, yeah, we're going to
have a first inaugural girls canoe trip, we wondered who's
going to lead the darn thing. And the first guy came to my
mind was Curtis. And then we thought, well, who?
(32:13):
Who else could do that? And we thought of another one of
Curtis's good friend, Hank Banger.
Hank Banger? Sure.
I understand it now, Hank has four girls or something to go to
O getchi and but Hank and Kurt took the first girls trip out.
(32:36):
Where did they go? Do you remember?
They went on a turtle. River Turtle River, OK.
Yeah, yeah. And of course you're going to
take 10 teenage girls. And Kurt, I think was only like
18 at the time, and Hank Banger was maybe a year younger.
(32:57):
So now we were going to take 10 teenage girls, and the oldest
one actually was 17, I think on a school bus across the Canadian
border there and go on the Turtle River.
And we got thinking, well, how these two older teenage guys
(33:21):
with this busload of girls goingto get through customs without
being questioned. Well, we thought best thing,
we'd better get a couple of adult women, probably older than
those boys to go on a trip. So we got Kathy Dicks.
That's. What I thought was.
Always been behind that, that she's always been on the
(33:42):
founders committee for a girls camp, she said.
I'll, I'll go. And then another guy by the name
of Karen Straws who had been camper with Janet Vandenbark at
back in the day and at Northland.
(34:02):
So those two guys, Hank and Curtis and and Kathy and Karen
took these 10 girls on the Turtle Rivers for 10 days and it
it was a hit. The rest, the rest is history.
That's great. But we asked them and, you know,
on that trip we had just trying to think anyway, there's still
(34:31):
some girls associated with girlscamp and who actually years
later took an Arctic trip. OK, that had been on that trip
and the name's escaped me now, but you know, it just it worked,
right? Right.
So. That it's that kicked it off and
(34:53):
it's, you know how strong it is now.
It's it, it's great. So let, let's go back to your,
your cooch days. I mean, anything that sticks
out, George, I mean that. I mean that, that trips or
people or you know, what this place has done for you in your
life outside of camp. I mean, do you still, what do
(35:13):
you, what do you contribute campto helping you with anything
like that? I know I just fired about 8
questions at you there, but I'lllet you take it.
You know, you have some, you have some special people that
you that you remember from camp and people who, who he idolized
and whatever. And I, I guess one of them for
(35:33):
me was John Holden, who again was one who came to me and said,
you know, do me a favor. Don't forget getting behind the
girls camp. And so that that certainly is a
person who's been, you know, just his demeanor, the way he he
(35:56):
did things, the way he managed was an inspiration for my adult
life. And I I miss the guy Terrible
still. Well, and you know how brilliant
he was, George, but what makes me think that he's even more
brilliant is that now we know hepicked the right guy to to head
this up in you. And he was smart enough to do
(36:18):
things like that and know who topick and who does who together
and to know that it was going toget done.
And I, I commend him that he chose you and said that to you.
And obviously you were the rightguy because look where we are
today. So I hear you about Johnny was a
great man. Yeah, one another, I guess it's
another person. And I guess to me, what makes my
(36:41):
memories great of any of anything I've ever been involved
in is the is the people that areinvolved.
And so, you know, you have you have John Holden.
And then as far as camp goes, the guy that I admired growing
up and became I guess one of my very closest friends was Tim
(37:02):
Hindley. And of course, Tim is gone too
early, but Tim and I just becamegreat friends at camp.
Later when he lived in Colorado and even before he lived there,
we, we, we skied together and our families, you know, tripped
(37:27):
around together. We're on the board together of
camp three years and of the foundation.
And of course, he was the chair of the foundation for several
times. And then he was the director of
Hooch and all that. And but anyway, that's a that's
a guy who just lifelong values that would both shared.
(37:52):
And yeah, it's I I miss Tim to this day and still still see Joe
and highly once a week in the either in the summer or down
here in Florida. She lives not far from us.
And then of course, her sons, Tim and Steve.
(38:14):
It's Cindy, of course, his daughter.
And anyway, that Hindley family's just been a a great
memory for me. Yeah, they're special.
I, I, I, I can, I understand when you're coming.
Tim and my mom were in the same kindergarten class together.
That's how far back they go. And I know my, I think my father
was in their wedding even. And then of course, Steven,
(38:36):
Steve and I are best of friends from camp.
So, right, I, I, I certainly hear what you're saying about
and we do miss him terribly. Yeah, and then another, another
relationship, of course is your dad bugs and and your mom.
I mean, you know, those, those memories being canoeing with
(38:58):
bugs and and yet your mother andduring preseason would always
prepare and get lunch together for anybody that was around the
island preseason, you know, a month before camp started.
And and, you know, it's just andthey they're a great part of my
(39:20):
memories. And of course, then your
brothers and sisters same, same way.
Yeah. Yeah, It's, it's, it's I, I
guess the, the whole Cooch experience is, has been just
families that we've known all those years and still, still see
(39:43):
them. We see their grandkids at camp,
you know, And yeah, that's it's.I love Steven Simmons name to.
Me the whole to me the whole camp experience is is the
relationship should make no doubt with yeah.
Yeah, I mean, look, look at the friendship you and I have after
(40:04):
all these. Years.
It's great. Yeah.
Well, I used to call Tim a lot, and now, now you.
Now I'm doing this with you. You know, they get a couple
chuckles here and there about some old things here and there.
Yes, we yes, we have some of therotative games and things.
Oh, yeah. So, hey, real quick, is there
any is you have, I mean, I've heard you say so many stories
(40:25):
and we've I know we've got to becareful with the stories we
share, but anything that jumps out that was just so funny.
I mean that you remember it all from camp.
I mean, I'm sure there's so many, it's hard for you to pull
one or two out. But I don't know what you and
I've been walking out of paths. You'll break one out and I just
start I'm I'm on the ground laughing.
I can't stop laughing. And then and then Tim Hinely saw
(40:46):
us laughing and he ran over and said, hey, what's going on here?
I need to hear what just happened, you know, And awe, I
don't know if you can remember anything or not.
That jumps out with the Vanden Barks.
I mean, there was a story about a bear that someone, I thought
someone put a bear in Holden's cab.
And was that true? Yeah, but that that I didn't
(41:07):
have anything to do with that. We we actually brought a bear
from Rainy Lake Lodge 11 eveningright before Grand Council.
Kind of a dumb of a dumb stunt. Was a cub though.
(41:29):
Yeah, we, we, there were a couple of bear Cubs that were
growing up over at at the old Rainy Lake Lodge where the girls
camp is now. Those Cubs were feeding in the
garbage dump up there where the shop is actually for the girls
camp. And so we we thought we'd bring
(41:55):
a cub over to camp. Really a kind of a dumb idea,
but. Where'd you put it?
Well, we the thing was we went up and and grabbed this cub over
Rainy Lake Lodge and we brought it and put it in the storm boat
(42:19):
and we brought it over to Cooch.We thought that might be cute.
And by the time we got over there, John Holden was already
standing on the main dock. OK.
And said, you boys, you get thatbear back over to Rain Lake
(42:41):
Lodge. Over the time we got up back
over there, the mother was down on the main dock over any lake
lodge where the swimming dock isnow for the girls camp.
And that bear boy was standing up and hind seat and smelling
(43:01):
and smell is coming. And we just kind of cruised by
the the dock and threw the bear little the cub in the water.
And John Holden was really mad. I mean, that was not a good
(43:21):
start. Well, I'm sure he had some
chores for you the next day. That's the way he was, you know.
Yeah, he kind of knew what was going on and you had to pay the
piper the next day. Yeah, not that's that's such a
good idea. Well, is there any one other one
that jumps out? I mean, I won't go too much
longer, but. Well, there is one.
(43:49):
Probably six of us when we were on the staff.
We're going to go over to Canadaand.
This is like early 60s. Yeah, the idea came up to hassle
the Border Patrol people. I don't know why we had that
(44:12):
idea, but we we got in the car of the doc holidays.
Oh yeah. Man, there's a great day from
the past. Doc Holiday had a little Ford
Falcon and you could barely get 6 people in that cars.
(44:35):
And so we, we, we didn't actually, so we were going to
just kind of go over and hassle with the, with the Border
Patrol. There were six of us and four of
us were in the car and two people got in the trunk of the
car. And so we went flying over the
(44:59):
bridge to the Canadian side, circled around the Canadian
place where you're supposed to stop, circled the car around and
speed back over the US side. We never stopped at the customs.
We just circled their customs building with the time we got
back over to the US side, driving across where the red
(45:24):
lights were flashing and people,the US customs guys were
standing blocking the road. And we got over there and you
know how they come up to the carand say, where you guys been?
Well, that just that, that that didn't work out so well.
(45:50):
Joe, Joe Holiday, who was driving the car, he looked out
at the custom guy and said, in answer to his question of where
he'd been, he said, we've been to Canada.
What what's it to you? And the guy said get out,
everybody come inside. And anyway, we all got an
(46:13):
official reprimand from the United States government.
And by the time we got back to camp that night, John Holden
seems to know when troubles coming, just like with the bear.
He's standing on the dock to meet us.
(46:34):
And he says, OK, you boys, I'll talk to you in the morning.
You better go to your cabins. And anyway, that just was not a
good, good start, you know? And probably not a fun night's
sleep for you that night either.Yeah, not, not a yeah.
We spent a lot of time picking up shells down in the rifle
(46:57):
race. Oh yeah?
Oh yeah, Hauling popped on something.
Well, George, you know, we couldgo on forever.
I know, But I just I want to endthis today to say just a few
things. You know, obviously you, you've
given so much of your time and talent and treasure to the to
(47:17):
this place, both the Coochie Ching and Ogichi and then the
whole foundation and you, you did it.
So, you know, I was a young kid,I could enjoy it and your kids
could enjoy it. And, you know, I think I speak
for everybody to say how grateful we are for people like
you and the, and the other ones that have done that.
And it's fun for me to come backand do these things now and to
(47:38):
meet with our alumni and to be apart of it.
Because I think, I think it's hard to turn now to carry the
torch that you guys have carriedto get us to where we are now.
And, you know, I just hope a lotof the people from my era and
the, and the eras before me are ready to, to, to step up and
share some of these stories and,and to help carry this place
that's still doing so much to touch the boys and girls, the
(48:01):
young kids and helping them out.If there's ever a time that we
need to camp with today's world,with technology and what have
you, now's the time and, and now's the time that we really
need to step up and, and, and make this place great.
And again, I, I can't thank you enough for, you know, all you've
done for camp, Most importantly for being a good friend of mine
(48:24):
and being a great friend of my family's and my parents.
And I just can't wait to get back up to see you again next
summer. And I'm sure I'll be calling you
quite a bit so we can make sure we got the proper rotative games
and little council games ready to go for that evening.
So, But hey, thanks Ben. What's that?
(48:46):
And it's been fun. Yeah, right.
We didn't even, we didn't even mention boys of winter we can
talk about. Well, that's I mean, that's a
whole another story. Yeah.
But listen. Well, we can do another one
eventually about the boys of winter.
We can come back and do this again.
But give our best to Ruthie George.
You're the best man. We love you.
(49:07):
And you know, can't wait to cross pass here again soon.
Thanks Cole all. Right, buddy, we'll talk.
Take care, pal. Love you.
See you. All right.
Bye. Bye bye.
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