December 9, 2025 • 56 mins
Join us as we sit down with Kathy Dix, the founding director of Ogichi, to uncover the captivating story behind the inception and growth of this remarkable girls' camp. Kathy shares the evolution of Ogichi, discussing the early days, the formation of the Grateful Circle, and the fascinating tales from the inaugural canoe trips.
Discover Kathy's unique philosophy on camp meals, the integral roles of key contributors, and the community spirit that has helped make Ogichi a beloved institution. This insightful and heartwarming conversation explores the challenges, triumphs, and the lasting impact of Ogichi on its campers and staff.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Today I had a great chat with the founding director of Ogechi,
Kathy Dicks. We had a great conversation and
some of the highlights include how her family learned about
camp, early days of Ogechi, and how they found their footing.
She talks about the original crew of girls on the first canoe
trip, the origins of the Grateful Circle, crazy story
(00:23):
about pulling someone off on trip early.
She talks about her philosophy around meals at camp and she
mentions a lot of names that helped make Ogechi what it is
today. So sit back, relax, and enjoy
this conversation with the one and only Kathy Dicks.
(00:52):
Wow, what a great guest we have today.
I can't wait to hear so many things about the early
beginnings of Ogichi Dockway andhow it started.
And who better to have on this show right now to tell us the
story than Kathy Dicks? Kathy, how are you today?
Just. Fine, doing great.
Good. Obviously, I want to start with
(01:14):
how did you even become involvedwith the Camping and Education
Foundation? When did this start?
You know, I've talked with George Simmons and a few other
people. I know you were on the original
team to kind of get this thing going, but I mean how did you
even find out about the Camping and Education Foundation to
begin with in the 1st place? I'd love to hear this.
(01:34):
OK, well, it was 1995 and Jamie,who's our third of five kids,
was a pitcher for the three and two baseball team, and the
baseball players were on strike.So he decided he wouldn't be
playing baseball. And I said, Jamie, Jamie, that
that doesn't involve 3 and two, you can play baseball.
(01:56):
And he said, well, actually, I don't want to play a sport where
I don't have any heroes. I just, I think I want to go to
a camp. So I rounded up all these
videos, set them down in front of the VCR player with a bag
full of videos. And he would put them in, play
them a little bit, click it off.I mean, really not even long
(02:17):
enough to hear very much about the camp.
And then he came across this one, though, for Kuchicheng and
he listened to it. He didn't listen to it all the
way through, but he listened to it for a couple minutes.
And then he goes, I want to go to this camp.
I said, well, wow, how did you decide that?
And he said, well, I didn't wantto go to one of those camps
(02:38):
where they start off talking about self esteem.
I didn't really want to go to a camp where the guys didn't have
any self esteem. And this one started off, you're
going to have an awesome, reallygood time.
And I and I knew that a, a parent didn't write that, so I
thought I'd believe what they said.
And I want to go have an awesomereally good time.
So that was it, 1995. And the next year he took his
(03:02):
older brother to camp. So I've been 96 and soon after I
was asked to be on the board as a parent and join the Kuchicheng
board at that time. And then we start started
talking about the girls camp. OK, so that in the girls camp
talk came. This was the early 2000s.
Yeah. OK.
(03:23):
And. Early 2000s.
Were you in a career at that time?
I mean, when you were serving onthe board, were you?
Yeah, I was in business with my husband.
We were art supply distributors and at the time I was travelling
to Europe with Bob visiting manufacturers in Germany,
(03:44):
Austria, France, Holland, who are manufacturers of fine art
supplies. And I would talk to them and do
their marketing, convert their marketing to the US market in
which would give Bob the exclusive rights to distribute
those products. So OK.
(04:04):
So yeah, you had a full, full career going and then you get on
the board. We're going to Fast forward here
probably a little bit. You get on the board, you serve
on the board for what, 3-6 years, whatever it was.
And now the girls camp comes along with George and Jay stare
in the group, the Janet van, thebark and I know there's one
other lady that that Janet went to camp with.
(04:26):
I can't remember her name. I think she.
Actually, yeah. And I was also part of that
group because I had a camp background at Camp Comedy.
So yeah, that early group of us started talking about starting
the girls camp. And I remember we got to the
point of interviewing people. We did a national search for
(04:49):
directors. And it was kind of depressing to
be on that, those calls because I could tell that our early
ideas and what we had talked about was going to be, you know,
wished away and that whoever wasthe director was going to go
down at the path of starting a girls camp.
So I said, guys, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring here.
(05:11):
And they were like, kind of shocked.
But I that that was the end of me being on those calls.
And so I didn't hear from anybody for three months.
And then we were at a meeting inBreckenridge and Tim Hindley
came to, it was at his house. He came down the stairs, told me
to come on up. And they said, OK, you're our
(05:32):
new director. Oh wow, that's.
Great. Jeff Wilson was the one that
announced that. So was this this the the general
board? I guess it was the Kuchicheng
board or whoever. No, we.
Just had one board. At the time, right?
We only had one board then, right?
And then here you go. Were you nervous doing this or
excited? No, wait, wait.
(05:52):
Hang on. Before we go there.
Take me back. So you had an experience at Camp
Kamiji, Is that what you said? Yep, Yep.
I was there for six years and I was on staff for two years.
Is that located? Where's that located?
Is that in Bemidji? Yeah, Bemidji on Cass Lake and
you know, I LED canoe trips justthey were one week trips in the
(06:14):
boundary waters were the biggesttrips that they did for the
older kids. But nonetheless, I had the fun
of going on three day canoe trips as a younger kid and then
leading one week trips in Canada.
As for the older girls? OK.
And so I want to keep digging inhere to the beginning days here.
So you you get named director atwhat year was that early 2000s?
(06:36):
One or two or three or? Something, no, I think it was
2003 and I worked on my recruiting.
I mean I had these kids, I had a15 year old daughter and a 17
year old daughter. So I got them and Karen Strauss
was also looking for people and we got a group of 10 girls and
(07:00):
we had Hank Banger and Kurt Simmons as our 28 year old trip
heads. And then Karen Strauss and I
were, I think I was 49 at the time.
OK. And did we at that time, that
was the first summer with that first trip, is that correct?
Yeah, that was, that was the fourteen of us.
We stayed at George's house on Grind, Grindstone Island, and
(07:21):
they had, he had tents set up inthe back, which was, you know,
that's where we stayed. And then Curtis ran cruising
school and and then off we went.OK, so that was.
George and Tim, yeah, George andTim drove the bus and they
dumped us off at the start of the Turtle.
River there, that's what, yeah, George was saying it was the
(07:42):
Turtle River. So was that the official first
year of that? We consider the first year of
Ogichi the camp. Or there was some back and forth
on that. We, that was the pilot trip and
we didn't vote until after that pilot trip to go ahead and
launch the girls camp. So you could count that as the
(08:02):
first year, which I think we've done saying it's 20 years old,
that to line up with Camp Kuchicheng's 100th year.
But the first official year of Camp Ogichi was 2005 out of
Rainy Lake Lodge. And so we had 30 campers and.
We purchased that in in in early2005 or the end of 2004, Is that
(08:23):
correct? Yeah, I was sitting next to
Frank Hattimer and the lights went on and, you know, he and
Jim Shook took it away and soon he had that property.
But that wasn't, it wasn't purchased for the girls camp.
It was purchased as the, that's kind of the launching place for
(08:46):
Camp Kuchicheng, which, you know, at the beginning years of
Ogichi, the trailers and the canoes, everything would come
right through down Rainy Lake Lodge's driveway and they'd, you
know, we'd see them leaving for trips, coming back from trips,
all their food supplies, everything came right down that
(09:08):
drive. Yeah, that was a that was, that
was a parking area is what I think they originally.
But I, I remember conversations early too, about we know we want
to do this where I know they looked at different lands,
other, you know, different land area other than Rainy Lake
Lodge. I think they even looked at the
backside of Deer Island. You know, all these places we
(09:31):
met, we met several times and, and walked quite a few
properties and that was, that was real interesting looking at
these different sites and then coming back round to feeling
like the really best site was going to be at Rainy Lake Lodge.
I mean, at least we could start there.
We could borrow that for the first season.
(09:54):
And then really it was the synergies of the two camps with
the transportation and the expertise back and forth.
We didn't even have any facilities.
We started camp, you know, borrowing facilities from Camp
Cooch over on Deer Island. Right, right.
I mean. Activity.
Yeah, you had nothing. I mean, I just used and this is
the great story about this wholeplace and where and how we see
(10:15):
it now, you know, and all the hurdles you had to deal with,
you know? Yeah, Well, we.
We started with girls 13 to 18, and that was because they could
look out for the trucks and the vans and everything coming down
the drive. We, I mean, we, we really
couldn't have host younger girlsuntil we took care of that
(10:37):
issue. And.
Right. Yeah.
Right. So so we made the decision this
was going to be the girls site. And then now the build out
begins and we'll get into peoplehere down and we'll start
talking about other things otherthan the actual build up of this
camp, this the physical structure.
But I do want to get into this. So we don't now know that
Ogeche's going to be located here.
(10:59):
And now the master plan becomes now, OK, let's start building
out and where do we go first? So take take us from there.
Yeah. Well, OK, initially, you know,
when we are borrowing Rainy LakeLodge, we were only a three-week
camp and then the boys camp would use its second session for
(11:20):
their staff lodge and we would have to take every semblance,
every little signage, everything, and stash it away in
the back closet so that it was, again, the boys hang out.
And so, yeah, the first thing aswe had to do, we had to decide
to take down buildings, repurposed buildings.
(11:44):
Our first building that we builtwas Eagle, the cabin way up on
the Ridge. And and then we built the next
one, Hawk. We started with lodging and, and
finally in 2014 we built the lodge, but we had to repurpose
all the things that were going on in the lodge before we could
(12:09):
take that lodge down. So we had to do all the cabins.
And yeah. And we, yeah, we, we started out
with some guys on staff and theywere in cabin 9.
And that was also our trip Center for all the gear because
that it, it was OK for them to sleep with all the gear I guess
(12:29):
and all the trip food and everything was there.
Right. So for people that that that
were what we're referring to is the old Rainy Lake Lodge, the
old cabins that they rented out to people that would stay at the
resort. And then the original Rainy Lake
Lodge restaurant slash bar was used as the main lodge until we
built the new Ogichi Lodge with that was kind of your
(12:54):
centerpiece. There was the old Rainy Lake
Lodge and we finally were able to take that down.
And once you had the new, the new place constructed.
But in the meantime, we had somepeople showing up by water, you
know, to come find the bar. People would come down and they
would actually walk in and they would ask if they could have a
dinner reservation. We're like, oh, you see, you
(13:15):
see, like 60 girls and you thinkthat you're going to get a
table. So that was kind of funny to go
through that transition. And actually one time we were
there, Bob, my husband Bob was visiting and this guy came down
and Bob talked to him for oh, a good hour.
And he's, he said, gosh, I one of your board members or
(13:36):
somebody came and I was talking for an hour and I looked out at
the guy walking away. I go, I've never seen that guy
before. It was just someone who wandered
in and you know this time. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we had a lot of that. We oh.
Yeah. And that's the, I don't know if
the scary is the right word, butthe, you have to be alert when
you're on the mainland like that, you know, and plus it
(13:58):
being an old resort, like you said, you know, people just
don't know, right? And so and so you mentioned
something earlier your your first summer too, you had 30
girls. And I think we had, I think we
had ten staff, including the Cit's.
And this exploded quickly. I mean, this caught fire pretty
quick I, I, I assume and now it's full every summer with 100
(14:23):
and. 114 girls each session. Yeah, we, so we built up that
first session and then we started lowering the ages as as
the campus become more became more safe.
And then we started second session, but started that with
the Chickadee program, just 10 days of little girls.
(14:43):
So the first session we built from the older girls down and
the second session we built likewe started that in 2010 and
started that with Chickadees andthen built up to adding the
older girls. So two different models and
first session was always Ogichi's first to sell out
biggest, you know, hit kind of thing.
(15:04):
And and Camp Kuch always had second session as their big
celebration. Right, right.
And the, the other thing we mentioned that you mentioned,
which I think is really special is that the original 10 girls
that took the first trip, I mean, you, you want to talk
about a reunion that would be just an amazing group of people
(15:26):
to get together. Do you still talk to most of
them, Kathy? Yeah, yeah.
Quite a few of them I'm in touchwith on a regular basis, two of
them being my daughters. I mean, the The funny thing is
Libby, who was 17 that first year, she just couldn't wait to
do something like the, the canoetrips that her older brothers
(15:49):
were doing. Emily, on the other hand, at 15,
thought that she should stay home with her driver's permit
and go to the pool. I mean, she preferred high heels
to hiking boots. And then I was like, Nope, you
have to come. And on the way up, see, I made
all the girls write, you know, why they were coming, what they
were looking forward to. And she was in the back of the
(16:11):
car riding hers. And it was, it was not one that
I would have put up for marketing purposes.
Right. And, but the first night on the
inaugural trip, maybe, maybe it's the first night out on
trip. We'd been in camp, you know, for
a little bit at George's house. But she stood up at our grateful
circle, which is something that started right off the bat, and
(16:33):
she said she was so grateful to be out there.
She really never had so much funin her whole life.
And that squared it up for me that no matter what a girl was
like coming to this experience, whether they went high heels and
and driver's permits or they were like couldn't wait to do
what their older brothers and fathers had done, that the
(16:54):
experience was going to work forall of them.
Right. Yeah, the great for the grateful
circle that you've mentioned. I I want to get into this a
little bit too. So you, you take over it as the
director of the girls camp. Oh, Getchi, first director
starting from scratch. What in the world's going on?
What am I doing? I mean, I'm sure there's a
(17:14):
couple times that hit you, but was there a set of like, you
know what, what was your vision,I guess going into this?
Did you have a vision of a, a certain way you wanted to, to do
this? The culture, the type of culture
you wanted to build, the type ofkids you wanted to get.
I know there's a lot of questions fired at you there,
but. Yeah, I'm sure you just.
Can't jump in and go. Drew from my personal
(17:35):
experiences. I had been to camp comedy and
loved it. I grew up summers in at our
family cabin up on Lake Superior, and my dad's best
friend that he often had their family come up with us was
Charlie Barnes, who had attendedCamp Kuchicheng for one year,
(17:56):
and he was the Boy Scout leader in Kenilworth, Illinois.
You know, Pop Pop Vance was in Evanston, so we had a contingent
on the North Shore of Chicago that went to Kuch, and Uncle
Charlie, you know, had done that.
He then was a Boy Scout leader in in Kenilworth for 50 years.
And we had the Wanigans and the tump lines and he pulled a lot
(18:18):
of the Cooch experience into theBoy Scouts.
But we would, you know, do rope swings up in Lake Superior at
the cabin. And we all had different KP, you
know, kind of tribe duties or pack duties, I think they're
called now to do. And then we'd go off on an
adventure and like he'd had the boys climb up a Birch tree
(18:39):
sapling and then he'd have us younger girls hold on to the end
of the tree and fling up into the air.
None of what we were doing was very safe.
And we we had all run amok boats.
You know that you just the kids would pray that they would work
the next day for our next adventure.
So, well, a little bit like Cooch there in the early years,
(19:00):
right? Yeah, and.
Also, I pulled just things from my family going back to the
grateful circle. That's something we have done as
a family. Not my family growing up, but
Bob and I and one of my cousins.We had the kids all around the
table and we asked them to say something they were grateful for
and it just became a tradition. We pass out three little Pinto
(19:22):
beans or corn, you know, little popcorns and that go around the
table three times and each person puts in their grateful
being and says something they'regrateful for.
And first time around it's, you know, superficial, but by time
3, it's and you couldn't repeat anything that anybody else had
(19:42):
said. So like if someone had said they
were grateful for dad and the hard work and the opportunities
we get, nobody else could say that that was in the grateful
bowl. So by round 3, it got pretty
deep and it it became a family favorite tradition.
So I took that to camp thinking and.
And I think the same thing has become a meaningful part of
(20:03):
camp. I'll get you.
Yeah. Now there's obviously, I mean,
as you're talking here, people along the way, I, I mean, that
have helped you, that have supported you that, that are big
players in this in this place. And I, I, I want you to talk
about a few people that, that, that you've either had it on
(20:24):
staff or campers or, you know, the original core group that got
the whole thing going. And I'm sure we'll leave.
We're not purposely going to leave anybody out and that's not
the purpose. But do you want to talk about
anybody that that that just stands out that that really
early, early? On it was George Simmons, J
Stare, Steve Shook. Jim shook, Amy stare, Rachel
(20:50):
shook. I mean that this Janet van der
Bark. But the ones that I worked with
daily on this were Jim and Jay and Steve and George and Tim and
George and Steve shook and I didall the early fundraising.
We would go. I was Those were funny times.
Those were really funny times. And then Steve and I took that
(21:14):
on ourselves and we would, I, I just remember neither one of us
were really comfortable doing the fundraising.
And we would sit down and we'd kind of kick each other under
the table whose turn it was to talk and do the ask.
And the one with the strongest kick was the one who didn't have
to ask. Steve's took a lot of asking.
He then became a fundraiser. And I would say.
(21:38):
You know, then, then Bart and Peggy came over and they lived
in one of the cabins and Peggy taught Jazzercise and, and this
is when Bart started doing the building.
And I mean two people who were there every minute doing
(22:01):
whatever they could. Pegg was in the kitchen with her
nephew. And this is after Curtis.
Curtis was our original cook. Oh, that's right.
And I remember. That now?
That's right, yeah. Shirtless.
Cooking hamburgers, I don't think, see, we didn't have any
rules back then. We, we weren't, we weren't a
real camp, you know, Right, Right.
It wasn't until we. Officially got a certain size
(22:23):
that anybody was looking over our shoulder.
So I mean, we had things dropping from the ceiling during
meal time. Somebody would go up there, you
know, we had water leaking through.
It was not one of those facilities that would have been
approved, nor was the kitchen. But by the time Peggy was, we
(22:44):
had Kevin Holland from Kansas City, a teacher.
He was a son of a friend of minewho owns owned restaurants.
And Kevin and his wife, Gina, came up and cooked for a couple
summers and they took out trips.And anyway, along the line,
Peggy and her nephew, who's a professional chef, took over the
(23:07):
cooking and, you know, Barton Pegg, I can't say enough about
how they were boots on the ground every minute.
And about five years into it is when Hugh was hired.
And then we had a little bit more structure, you know, a
little. I was going to ask.
You when that came in. So Hugh was hired five years
after Ogichi had already startedup.
(23:28):
Yeah, 5. Years after, and that's
including the inaugural trip, which you know that that was
that was such an amazing thing. And coming back from that
sitting in front of the couch board and John Berry was heading
that board at the time. And they asked if I would give a
report. And I said, well, instead of
(23:50):
giving a report, how about I getsome of the girls to come up?
And I think I had five of the girls and they were seated in
front of the board. And I said, I'm just going to
ask questions. And Sydney Stair was one of the
girls. And Jay is, you know, more
process and more, you know, wanted it to go well.
So he wanted to know the questions ahead of time.
(24:10):
I said, no, no, I'm not going tokill them any questions ahead of
time. I just want them to speak from
their heart, which they did. And you could, you could watch
primarily men on that board at the time becoming very kind of
choked up emotional about the answers the girls were giving
were ones that they could have given or would have given.
(24:33):
And by the end of that meeting, I, I think John Berry was on
board and he was one of our greatest opponents and said,
let's go, let's go with it. So a lot of a lot of early on
people. And then Hugh joined and, and he
and Alice were, you know, Alice did the songwriting up front and
(24:56):
we did those Friends of Ogechi events.
That was really to bring in three generations at once.
I had a lot of catching up to dowith Camp Cooch.
So started the women's trip because I would go to recruiting
and you know that sometimes the girls would sink back in their
chair if there were any girls inthe room and the parents were
(25:17):
like, I wish I could do that. So I'm like, you can we have a
woman's trip, you know, just make it up on the spot.
And and that's how we, you know,we got say, Judy Seam and Jason
was one of our early trip heads and he got his mom to come on
that trip and then she got her granddaughters involved and then
her daughters involved. It's funny how wraps around
(25:38):
these families and different generations.
Yeah, yeah. And I.
I've seen a lot of people, the kids coming back in now their
kids, you know, I've noticed, you know, not Ogechi and Kuchi
Ching both, both places, you know, they, they've got their
daughters at Ogechi and you know, and this is going to start
happening with Ogechi. Now they're, you know, their
families are going to start coming back.
You know, just give us some time.
(26:00):
Hank Bangert and Curtis, you know, our early trip heads.
And then the next summer Hank came up and he trained.
I took the staff out for staff training and now he's got 4 kids
at the camp. I mean, I think Alex is aged
out. She's in college.
But yeah, 2 girls, 2 boys at thecamps.
And Hank was a big part of starting that up, as was John
(26:23):
Powell. Who?
Yeah, took out our CIT trip. So we had a lot of crossover of
the young guys. I can't say the older men were
as big of fans as the younger guys.
And then initially I was told you can't do anything that Cooch
does. You have to make up your own
program. So you know, there was
differences starting with girls and starting with boys.
(26:45):
Yeah, I think it's great that they have that.
They have their own little, you know how you've created this and
and and and with your classes and the trip.
I mean, what you guys have is special.
I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly what's going on on the
other side of the lake. Yeah, it shouldn't be.
And I had two boys at. Camp at at Cooch at the time and
I would hear from their friends.We like it that you're doing
(27:06):
different things just keep Scoochie Ching for us and you
have Ogichi and the. The younger guys are kind of on
board with it. Yeah, I think the only.
Common thing would be the tripping, the things that come
out of the trips, the friendships that you build.
I mean, there's nothing you can do about that, right?
I mean, the, the trips are the trips and they, they create this
bond and friendship and teach you resilience.
(27:28):
I don't care what you'd try to do and how you do it.
It's just the way it is, you know?
But I do remember. Curtis and Hank on the inaugural
trip, they we had a layover day and they were shocked at I don't
know. Curtis gave us a top of a I'm a
Wan again and I don't know. We had can't remember what the
other thing is, but we had to make up skits using this this
(27:50):
prompt and Curtis and and Hank were laughing.
So I I can't believe the skits you'd send the girls off for 5
minutes. They come back, they have songs
and dances, coordinated steps, everything, He said.
It's a riot. No, they're they're.
Everything I've heard, they havean absolute ball at that camp
from the start of it, even in the difficult times.
(28:11):
I mean, if you get the right people, you can make a tough
situation a lot of fun. And I think you did that early
Kathy with your with your early people.
And I think of people like kids summers.
I mean, I just start laughing ather all just hearing her talk.
She's just so awesome. Yeah, when those.
Girls, some of these girls, theywere little girls starting out
like little 1210 and 12 year olds.
(28:33):
I know Meredith freshly, who became a very key player in the
trip center. She said Jay stare cornered her
in the basement of of the house when she was over visiting
Maddie and basically wouldn't let her come up the stairs till
she agreed to come to camp. You know, she was a little girl
and then she's just an expert tripper, married a Coochie guy
(28:54):
and they're both, I think, working on the Arctic program
Kit. What worked with me as a, you
know, basically an assistant director for I, I want to say 4,
four years or so. My daughter Libby did that job
for a while. We had a Melinda was Roscoe for
five years. So we had a lot of gals who came
(29:19):
in and we would just take the job and divide it up.
Who's ever whoever was strongestat doing that task or if I
needed to give him that task to get him to come on board and do
the job, I would like, you know,we've just split it up that way.
Yeah, that's perfect. Made it.
Fun. Yeah, and and you can make any.
Situation fun so going back to the beginning I mean I I got to
(29:41):
ask you this before we move on here I mean here you you you you
threw your name in the hat for this director's job you get you
take it over you're sleeping in a tent in the backyard for your
first trip nog your own trip then you get rainy lake lodge
which has nothing but a bat infested lodge and you know all
(30:01):
these crazy I mean did you ever sit back and go Bob I don't know
what did what what in the heck did I just do here or or was it
the whole time you were pretty much we're going to make this go
and yeah I mean that's the. Thing about starting it with a
group, I, you know, either George or Jay or or Jim, What
(30:26):
would call, I'd pretty much get a call, you know, 3-4 times a
week and checking in. And no, I, I mean, I'm used to
doing entrepreneurial things. That's been kind of our Bob's
and my mode of operation. And also growing up in the
woods, we always were just making do with things.
(30:46):
I, I didn't have to have it perfect by any means and we
would just kind of make we had so much laughter about things.
The girls there were, there weren't any drawers, anything.
I said, well, guys, use the refrigerator for your clothes.
Sydney Stair was laughing so hard getting her tripping boots
out of the refrigerator in theselittle cabins.
And we would just repurpose things all the time to make it
(31:09):
work. I.
I just think that's awesome. I mean, I, you know, I've
tripped with people like Kuchicheng in the past where
they were miserable to be with and then I could trip with
someone and there were, it rained every day and we had the
best time of our lives. So I think that kind of hearing
you say that, Kathy, what you went through and how you
approach things that that comes off and the kids see that.
(31:31):
And I mean that that's that's exactly the type of leadership
that I think that having you there, that's why it was so
important having you there to get this thing off the ground.
That's probably why it's so strong today.
Because of that, you know, I think we had the right person in
the right place. Yeah.
Well, thank you. Certainly at the right time.
I'll, I'll tell you one story about early on, which was kind
(31:52):
of frightening. Katie Lonsdale, who had had come
from England and she had cousinsover at the boys camp and she
wanted to trip. Kenny Metcalf was her trip head.
Susie Jolly was on that trip andKenny's fiance was on that trip
and Kenny called me. They were on the Allen water and
(32:14):
he called me, said Katie Lonsdale is, she's struggling.
And then he'd call and say no, she's OK Katie Lonsdale is
struggling. This has been back and forth and
finally he said I just, I, I think we've got to get her off
the trip. So Campbell Jolly and I drove up
7 hours to Sue Lookout and oh, Itook one look at her and I was
(32:36):
like, we got to get her in the car and we took her back, drove,
you know, I, I got stopped by one of the Canadian policemen
for speeding and I said I, I think this girl is, she's very
sick. I think she might even have an
appendicitis. And so he said follow me.
And we, we, you know, we're probably going 120 at that time.
(32:57):
He speed all the way, got us across the border to the
hospital. Sure enough, she had an
appendicitis and that was my early director on duty.
I had to figure that whole thingout and then I, she was in the
hospital for a week because it was a perforated appendix.
And you know, I just brought herback at the end of that and
(33:18):
stuck her down in Rainy Lake Lodge.
We really worked out of one room.
We had bedrooms upstairs, but wehad, you know, that we'd
collapse the tables to have activities, send them back up
for another meal. Katie Lonsdale was over by this
counter that we used as the store and just set her bed up
there because she couldn't go upand down the stairs and the
couch cousins would come over and visit her.
(33:40):
And I mean, that's just the spirit of thing.
And we just had to make it work right?
And the and the decision making at both ends, your end and
Kenny's end. I mean, hey, something's not
right. I mean this happens a lot and
yes, but I I don't think we could.
Be a real camp until we could catch up the facilities.
(34:01):
I mean, the facilities were problematic, you know, and I, I
do remember one mom coming up and just being so shocked her
daughter's had had the best time, but she just couldn't get
over the facilities. So I would say that early group
of people, those were parents who are all on board with this
do whatever it takes kind of spirit.
(34:21):
So that was our initial crowd ofparents.
That was our initial crowd of campers.
And I do think that launched kind of a that strong spirited
way of thinking and that strong spirited attitude because those
that was our initial group. And then later on when the some
of the Kuch guys would come overand go, you have it so easy over
(34:44):
here. After we have this beautiful
lodge, I'm going. You have no idea.
No idea what we. Started with no some of the.
Younger ones, don't you know, they just think that's just
they, they watered the ground and that thing went up, you
know, but no, I think some of our.
Most loyal supporters, you know,Hard times build bonds that are
(35:05):
unbreakable and, and and to thisday, I think many of us in those
early years are just so committed to each other.
Oh, absolutely going. Through that, I mean, I that
bonds got to be that's why I wassaying that original 10 group of
kids that took that first trip. I mean that that's a great
group. I mean, well, some of some of
them never came. Back a few of them didn't come
(35:27):
back, but but that happened. I mean, if you talk about the
original group in a larger sensethat you're talking about the
early people on that early, it was an Okichi dock way.
I don't know if we called it a committee, steering committee or
something. I don't think we were even
aboard. But you, you look at that group
of people and, and the, the early people that that showed up
(35:53):
or the parents of people that showed up like the polls and
then, you know, Sharon Walsh, John's sister and Sarah, it just
is amazing that the bond is, is we can go back 20 years and
laugh about things and remember it's so clearly and the
commitment to each other is juststrong as made.
(36:14):
Stronger through the. Years.
Well, you built a great. Foundation with the with the,
the attitude, the way you attacked the early tough years
and all of you, I mean under your leadership.
But you got we, we got the facilities going.
We got barred out there, got himoff his rear end and got him to
finally do something. I'm just kidding.
(36:35):
But so you you. Go in and looking at the in camp
Kathy at your your programs in camp, the things going on in
camp before we get out to the trips.
What do you like? I mean, what, what are the kids
seem to like and what do you seem to like about what you're
doing? What you started from an in camp
once you got your facilities up and going, was there a big hit
(36:55):
for people? You know, every time I talk to
Bart, he said, Jeff, these girlsare having an they're absolutely
crazy. They're funny.
They're having a ball and he would tell me stories.
I would just be cracking up laughing and, well, you know.
We there's something different about growing the growing years
(37:16):
than there is once you're a fullcamp.
But we don't have enough of any age group to have anything like
units or age. And we just had kind of this, I
think Charlotte Bergkamp called it festival seating.
It was just like sit wherever you want for any meal.
We had round tables so that nobody was hidden and we had
(37:39):
conversations and but there would be like 10 year olds with
60 year olds. We didn't have like the staff
tables and, and that was I wanted the, we had tablecloths
and I wanted the, the meal time to be the extension of family
meals where you, I said, guys, you can't possibly experience
(38:01):
everything in a day that there is to experience.
So our meal times are times to talk about what other people
have done during the day and learn from them.
And maybe it's something you want to try.
And then the different ages would, you know, foster
conversations. And we would always have a
program at the end of every meal.
I mean, even if it was silly, asif you think your legs are are
(38:24):
worse, have more mosquito bites than anybody else.
Come on up here. And they'd stand on a bench and
we'd have a contest about the mosquito, you know, the mosquito
bites. Or we'd have girls stand up and
tell like a story of the day. It had to be had some humor or
some kind of lesson in it. And they would stand up.
And I, I mean, I swear those girls became public speakers.
(38:44):
They were so good at getting up in front of a crowd of all
different ages, not intimidated.We had stories that we would
tell. I mean, one of them was seat 29
E and seat 29 E is the place on the airplane that that is right
by the the the restrooms in the back.
(39:04):
It's just the chair doesn't go back.
It's well, you know, ripe with smells and just nothing about it
is good. And and we would say, OK, you
know, sometimes you're going to get seat 29 E, but we still
expect the same kind of good attitude expedition behavior.
We had skits, you know, to get them ready for their their
(39:24):
trips. And I just think there's so much
laughter going on all the time. But you could do that with a
wide age range of kids, the older kids, you know,
entertaining the younger ones and vice versa.
So you you could you could go. And eat and each meal you'll
you'll sit with a good differentgroup of people possibly each
(39:46):
meal probably is that is that the way I'm that's awesome.
I think that's great, that. That built a community spirit
absolutely every. Girl at.
Camp knew everybody's name. There was not.
There was not. Oh yeah, I guess she was there
at the same time, but I never saw her.
I didn't know her. No.
They were in activities together.
They the only thing we did by age was the cabins.
(40:10):
Gotcha. Yeah, we, I, I.
Just literally took their birthdays, 12345678, boom, you
know, down the list. So everybody was and they
wouldn't get the same cabins every year 'cause people would
drop out and people would come in.
But basically that was all by age.
Everything else was and, and I, I did love the fact that, as Sid
Stare told me, I've spent all myyears in sports.
(40:33):
I've never done art. But you know what?
I go over and do the art classesand I'm there with 10 year olds
and 12 year olds and you know, I'm, I'm older, but my artwork
turns out just like theirs and doesn't matter, you know, and
vice versa, you'd have someone who has spent all their time at,
in art and they go over and playsports with the girl, you know,
(40:55):
the, the, the younger girls and they would like, Hey, this is
fine. I'm, I'm pretty good at kickball
with the 10 year olds and they just had fun.
So I, I think there was a lot of, and there was a lot of
teaching like so at riflery, forinstance, we, we had riflery and
archery and, and we had climbingon that actual Rockwall.
(41:18):
But it was nice that we had multiple ages because you, you
would beef up the staff ratio basically when you had the older
girls in there with the younger girls.
You're right and that. Those activity facilities I've
seen build out, you know, I'd goup early a lot in April to help
Bart out from from year to year when I could.
And, you know, watching that whole place grow out.
(41:39):
I mean, there's you've got the ball field, you've got the
pickleball courts, you've got the rifle Rangers, a new
climbing tower now out there on the ball field.
So I mean, there's a lot of things that have grown up over
the years to give you a better in camp activity standpoint.
And you got the, the basket weaving and then the songwriting
and and I, I, you know, the artsthat there's a boat building
(42:00):
building. Is that up?
Is that up by the shop? Is that correct?
Yes, yes. Well, it was fun.
Bart and I would have coffee, you know, I 5:30 in the morning
and we would talk about, you know, projects and what we're
going to do next night. I can remember early on I was
like Bart, I, I think we need some kind of bookshelf to
(42:21):
separate the living area of the lodge with the dining area.
And you know, by noon there it was all built.
You know he doesn't let any any Moss grow for sure.
And and then it was like, what? Color, do you want it?
I was like, oh, kind of like AI don't know, like a green OOP by
dinner. It was painted, you know, and we
(42:41):
would talk about, Oh yeah, I remember the, the, the problem
for me was that the reason we built that building that's like
the welcome center boat building, is that on the arrival
days or the departure days, we would have parents just
wandering in and we wouldn't even know they were there.
(43:02):
They would have maybe gone up tothe cabins because the lodge was
one of the last things you came across.
And so we talked about building a, you know, a welcome center,
multi purpose and and that's whythat came about.
I think it was approved after itwas semi built.
(43:23):
That was one of those ideas thatBart and I had seemed like so
good. You know, surely we had talked
about building another building,but we we thought that was an
excellent idea and it's turned out to be a good idea.
And now and. Now we have the the alumni house
going in for the alumni would love.
That so much Oh yeah name. Jay's name?
(43:46):
Yeah, yeah, Bart picked the most.
Difficult location of all alumnihouse.
I mean, he's, he's crazy how I saw him this summer going.
Up and down the east, I'm sick of going up and down this Cliff.
I'm like, hey, he said. But it's going to be sturdy, I
can tell you that. So I mean, it's pretty.
Impressive. We had early on, we had this,
this place that we call Dan Schneid named it.
(44:08):
It was called Sacred Heights. And you could go.
It's one level above the Alumni House and you'd climb up there.
I remember pulling, pulling and pushing and helping Ed Betts get
up there. And he stood up there and just,
you know, eyes water this most beautiful place on the whole
site. And, and Bart, I know wanted to
(44:30):
build something up there, but I'm glad he stopped at that
lower level that that it's pretty high up there, you know,
and alumni, you didn't just hateto see him take a few steps
right off down to the ball field.
So. So let's go real quick.
Let's get out a lot of the in camp going onto the trips.
Is there is there a certain tripthat that that that that the
(44:50):
kids just love or that you can think of or I mean, I know now
you have groups taken going up to the Bay now.
I mean, this thing is gone just absolutely such big time
tripping. I just think it's outstanding.
And of course, Catherine Heinle has been one that's been leading
some of those trips up there whoI know really well.
(45:11):
But your tripping program to thekids seem to like it.
Is there a certain trip that they really like?
Is there? You know, I think of my days, I
think of the English and the blood vein and things like that.
You know, I don't know if there's anything special that
they like that they all go. On, you know, we're the turtle
and the English and the Allen water.
So when you say are there trips the girls like they like the
(45:33):
ones that that they've gone on and that they can talk to other
people and they can, you know, hit the highlights.
But in the tripping center, we started writing the names of the
rivers on the boards on the perimeter.
So you could go in there and they would site all the, you
know, and then we had the Kopka,Ellen water Kopka.
We had then Lindsay took a groupon the mountain river.
(45:57):
We, we didn't go to the Bay initially because of the, the
polar bear sightings. And that was kind of Coochie's
big trip. So we went the other direction
and we did some other big trips.And they were, they were not
ones that they could talk to their fathers about having gone
on, but they were equally tough and equally long.
(46:18):
And and then I was probably the barrier to the art to the Bay
trips just because of the early beginnings and needing to do
things differently than Cooch did.
But yeah, Catherine Heinle S LEDthose trips and very 6 mostly.
And the girls love them. But I think the big night at
2017 when 6 N of 60, when those girls took that 72 day trip, I
(46:46):
think it was 2600 miles and theydid all the planning themselves.
Those were our key, you know, trip planners, trip people.
Meredith Freshly. Lindsay.
Yep. Spangler.
Maddie. Stare Sammy Armacost Was there a
(47:06):
Sikh girl on? That trip?
Marie's Marissa. Sikh.
Yeah, her dad was in camp with. Mia Cooch, she's my counselor.
One year. Yeah, David, just awesome.
Trippers and when they came backI think people were pretty much
in awe of their presentation howintentionally were about taking
care of each other and and how you know they set the canoe
(47:31):
table and they they came back looking like they were you know
they didn't have that skinny. I need to send you to the ER
look that some of the boys tripswould come back.
These girls would come back and they let beautiful, healthy,
vibrant. It's like a different form of of
care during the trip and for their food and planning all that
(47:54):
ahead of time. So I mean.
We, we've seen it's talking about the, the, the, I don't
know if rough's the right word, but humble beginnings, I guess
maybe is a good way to put it ofthe whole start of this thing to
see it now. Kathy is amazing where it is not
only from a physical standpoint of the physical facility, but
(48:15):
from what I see on the outside looking in is some great bond,
some great friendships and just a great, great, great foundation
for the future of this place anda fun place for girls to be.
Are there any stories, Kathy? Before we get off this thing,
I'll give you, I'll open the micup to you to share any goofy or
funny or fun or not so fun stories that you have.
(48:38):
I'm sure there's a there's more.You've forgotten more than you
can remember, I'm sure. But oh, I I remember, but.
You know, when the stories come up is when you're sitting with
other people and they they start.
You know, I mean, like, I, I mean, there was, I think some of
the preseason stories are the funniest of all.
Like Bart and I were just talking about this one when he
(49:01):
built Snowshoe Hare and Crow on the same Ridge as the as the
Great Lodge. He had set a toilet out there
and it wasn't set yet, but it was just out in the room.
Haley Simmons went up to paint and she painted right around the
(49:24):
edge of the toilet sitting in the room so that when you lifted
it up that floor was a Bart would get the biggest kick out
of these things working with thegirls.
And we developed this this brandcalled Ogichi perfect.
It was so not perfect, but you know, I remember the stair girls
helping me stain the big great lodge window facing out to the
(49:46):
lake and Jim Hanson had come over and selected a stained
color and off we went. You know, stay where had
specific instructions about staining it and then wiping it
off quickly. And then we had a a final coat
to put on and Gretchen and Maddie got a little confused and
they put another big layer of the dark stain.
(50:07):
And I mean this it, it went fromthe desired color to like way
too dark. And we just, you know, what
could you do but laugh? It was already done and I turned
out better than it initially would have.
We're still, I know there is because I was there a couple
years ago. There's still a piece of
painters tape up in the corner of the lot left from Meredith
(50:28):
and Kitt's painting. Oh my gosh, I don't know.
They one time Megan Maycheck, she stole Bart's boots and she
put rhinestones all over his boots and Bart would take these
things and oh, he told me. He was the.
Center of so many pranks and such a good sport about it.
(50:48):
Yeah, he loves it. He loves.
It and they put those rhinestonepiece all over as as a Gator too
or as rhino, whatever, whatever it was yeah no, I I mean.
This is a fun thing about getting together for that 120
year gatherings. We got together at at in
Evergreen Co and we get togetheragain in Cincinnati.
(51:09):
You get a group of I mean, 2 is fine, but three or more you
can't believe. Well, you know, you've
experienced the same thing. The stories, the and then people
supply details that you've kind of forgotten about.
Yeah, it's got. To be fun for you, Kathy.
I mean, I, I've seen it, you know, obviously I've lived it in
(51:29):
my stories with the, with my people that I went to camp with.
But the energy that I see a group of girls sitting there
from Ogichi alumni, alumni or whatever and talking about their
times and bringing people in, the energy and the fun and the
passion that they have is so much fun to see.
And that's for you. I mean, I can't imagine, you
(51:53):
know, what that would be like. I mean, as a coach, when I coach
basketball, college basketball for many years, one of the most
rewarding things for me was to go get invited to one of our
players weddings. And this has got to be similar
for you, seeing the girls reunite to tell the stories
about something that you were really the cornerstone behind
creating. I mean, that's just got to feel
(52:14):
so good. I come from A.
Family of community builders andso the the desire to see this
turn into a functioning healthy community was was a vision that
was one I kind of grew up with. You know, how do you turn
(52:35):
something into a community wherethe and to have three
generations of women living together at all different ages,
different friendships. I mean, you know, Erica's travel
with Emily Spangler. They're not related to different
generations. And then Erica's daughter.
It those kind of things just areso heart warming to see, you
(52:59):
know, people taking on other people's family members as their
own and just the the sharing andin here now Bart and Peggy and I
are related, which is crazy. Congratulations.
Getting married. Yes, that's awesome.
I said we made it official. Our camp family members are now
actual related family members so.
(53:22):
Yeah, and I see the. Girls out in Colorado, I mean,
they, I talked to Kit and mayor,they, they, I think talk to each
other every day. This group of girls out there
that grew up together, it's it'sfiercely loyal group.
It's awesome. I I mean I've seen.
Them and it's just fun to watch and it just like I said, it
reassures that what's going on up there is being done right and
(53:45):
and it's having a great impact. And you, you accomplished what
you set out to do, right. I mean, you wanted to start a
girls camp. You wanted them to have fun.
You wanted to build leadership qualities in women, which you've
done. I mean, we could go on and on
and go out to go for example, after example after example of
different people, I'm sure, and be here all day.
(54:07):
But you did a great thing, Kathy, get this thing up and
running. And I think there's so many
young people today that are verythankful for what you've done
and the time and effort you spent to get that thing moving.
But more importantly to there's going to be many, many, many,
many women down the in the future, they're going to be able
to experience this because of the wonderful foundation that
(54:30):
you built there with how you howthat thing's running.
So I'm sure I speak for a lot ofpeople to say thank you, you
know, and we certainly want to appreciate.
I appreciate. That very much and I've one of
the final things I'll say is as the years went on, you could see
the community extending to the Cooch community and the 2 two
(54:52):
groups, 2 camps overlapping and blending and becoming one
camping Education Foundation. And thanks to Hugh for a lot of
of that. And I think Jr. and I recruiting
together and then we change friends of Ogechi to friends of
Coochin Ogechi. And I think now you have a much
more interrelated foundation andI think what you've got now.
(55:19):
Too, Kathy, which is really big is a ton of mutual respect
between both places now, which is great.
You know, that's, that's what's really important.
And I see it and I hear it and it's great to see.
And like I said, it's, it's a it's in a great spot from a
physical plant standpoint. And, and certainly, you know,
with the people and, and the direction that it's, it's going
(55:42):
with what you built. So anyway, listen, we appreciate
you coming on today and hopefully we could still stay in
touch if we hopefully you'll still stay around and and be a
part of different events and we'll see you at a Christmas
event here and there. And but Kathy, thanks a bunch.
Yeah. Thank you very much for joining
us.
Today I had a great chat with the founding director of Ogechi,
Kathy Dicks. We had a great conversation and
some of the highlights include how her family learned about
camp, early days of Ogechi, and how they found their footing.
She talks about the original crew of girls on the first canoe
trip, the origins of the Grateful Circle, crazy story
(00:23):
about pulling someone off on trip early.
She talks about her philosophy around meals at camp and she
mentions a lot of names that helped make Ogechi what it is
today. So sit back, relax, and enjoy
this conversation with the one and only Kathy Dicks.
(00:52):
Wow, what a great guest we have today.
I can't wait to hear so many things about the early
beginnings of Ogichi Dockway andhow it started.
And who better to have on this show right now to tell us the
story than Kathy Dicks? Kathy, how are you today?
Just. Fine, doing great.
Good. Obviously, I want to start with
(01:14):
how did you even become involvedwith the Camping and Education
Foundation? When did this start?
You know, I've talked with George Simmons and a few other
people. I know you were on the original
team to kind of get this thing going, but I mean how did you
even find out about the Camping and Education Foundation to
begin with in the 1st place? I'd love to hear this.
(01:34):
OK, well, it was 1995 and Jamie,who's our third of five kids,
was a pitcher for the three and two baseball team, and the
baseball players were on strike.So he decided he wouldn't be
playing baseball. And I said, Jamie, Jamie, that
that doesn't involve 3 and two, you can play baseball.
(01:56):
And he said, well, actually, I don't want to play a sport where
I don't have any heroes. I just, I think I want to go to
a camp. So I rounded up all these
videos, set them down in front of the VCR player with a bag
full of videos. And he would put them in, play
them a little bit, click it off.I mean, really not even long
(02:17):
enough to hear very much about the camp.
And then he came across this one, though, for Kuchicheng and
he listened to it. He didn't listen to it all the
way through, but he listened to it for a couple minutes.
And then he goes, I want to go to this camp.
I said, well, wow, how did you decide that?
And he said, well, I didn't wantto go to one of those camps
(02:38):
where they start off talking about self esteem.
I didn't really want to go to a camp where the guys didn't have
any self esteem. And this one started off, you're
going to have an awesome, reallygood time.
And I and I knew that a, a parent didn't write that, so I
thought I'd believe what they said.
And I want to go have an awesomereally good time.
So that was it, 1995. And the next year he took his
(03:02):
older brother to camp. So I've been 96 and soon after I
was asked to be on the board as a parent and join the Kuchicheng
board at that time. And then we start started
talking about the girls camp. OK, so that in the girls camp
talk came. This was the early 2000s.
Yeah. OK.
(03:23):
And. Early 2000s.
Were you in a career at that time?
I mean, when you were serving onthe board, were you?
Yeah, I was in business with my husband.
We were art supply distributors and at the time I was travelling
to Europe with Bob visiting manufacturers in Germany,
(03:44):
Austria, France, Holland, who are manufacturers of fine art
supplies. And I would talk to them and do
their marketing, convert their marketing to the US market in
which would give Bob the exclusive rights to distribute
those products. So OK.
(04:04):
So yeah, you had a full, full career going and then you get on
the board. We're going to Fast forward here
probably a little bit. You get on the board, you serve
on the board for what, 3-6 years, whatever it was.
And now the girls camp comes along with George and Jay stare
in the group, the Janet van, thebark and I know there's one
other lady that that Janet went to camp with.
(04:26):
I can't remember her name. I think she.
Actually, yeah. And I was also part of that
group because I had a camp background at Camp Comedy.
So yeah, that early group of us started talking about starting
the girls camp. And I remember we got to the
point of interviewing people. We did a national search for
(04:49):
directors. And it was kind of depressing to
be on that, those calls because I could tell that our early
ideas and what we had talked about was going to be, you know,
wished away and that whoever wasthe director was going to go
down at the path of starting a girls camp.
So I said, guys, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring here.
(05:11):
And they were like, kind of shocked.
But I that that was the end of me being on those calls.
And so I didn't hear from anybody for three months.
And then we were at a meeting inBreckenridge and Tim Hindley
came to, it was at his house. He came down the stairs, told me
to come on up. And they said, OK, you're our
(05:32):
new director. Oh wow, that's.
Great. Jeff Wilson was the one that
announced that. So was this this the the general
board? I guess it was the Kuchicheng
board or whoever. No, we.
Just had one board. At the time, right?
We only had one board then, right?
And then here you go. Were you nervous doing this or
excited? No, wait, wait.
(05:52):
Hang on. Before we go there.
Take me back. So you had an experience at Camp
Kamiji, Is that what you said? Yep, Yep.
I was there for six years and I was on staff for two years.
Is that located? Where's that located?
Is that in Bemidji? Yeah, Bemidji on Cass Lake and
you know, I LED canoe trips justthey were one week trips in the
(06:14):
boundary waters were the biggesttrips that they did for the
older kids. But nonetheless, I had the fun
of going on three day canoe trips as a younger kid and then
leading one week trips in Canada.
As for the older girls? OK.
And so I want to keep digging inhere to the beginning days here.
So you you get named director atwhat year was that early 2000s?
(06:36):
One or two or three or? Something, no, I think it was
2003 and I worked on my recruiting.
I mean I had these kids, I had a15 year old daughter and a 17
year old daughter. So I got them and Karen Strauss
was also looking for people and we got a group of 10 girls and
(07:00):
we had Hank Banger and Kurt Simmons as our 28 year old trip
heads. And then Karen Strauss and I
were, I think I was 49 at the time.
OK. And did we at that time, that
was the first summer with that first trip, is that correct?
Yeah, that was, that was the fourteen of us.
We stayed at George's house on Grind, Grindstone Island, and
(07:21):
they had, he had tents set up inthe back, which was, you know,
that's where we stayed. And then Curtis ran cruising
school and and then off we went.OK, so that was.
George and Tim, yeah, George andTim drove the bus and they
dumped us off at the start of the Turtle.
River there, that's what, yeah, George was saying it was the
(07:42):
Turtle River. So was that the official first
year of that? We consider the first year of
Ogichi the camp. Or there was some back and forth
on that. We, that was the pilot trip and
we didn't vote until after that pilot trip to go ahead and
launch the girls camp. So you could count that as the
(08:02):
first year, which I think we've done saying it's 20 years old,
that to line up with Camp Kuchicheng's 100th year.
But the first official year of Camp Ogichi was 2005 out of
Rainy Lake Lodge. And so we had 30 campers and.
We purchased that in in in early2005 or the end of 2004, Is that
(08:23):
correct? Yeah, I was sitting next to
Frank Hattimer and the lights went on and, you know, he and
Jim Shook took it away and soon he had that property.
But that wasn't, it wasn't purchased for the girls camp.
It was purchased as the, that's kind of the launching place for
(08:46):
Camp Kuchicheng, which, you know, at the beginning years of
Ogichi, the trailers and the canoes, everything would come
right through down Rainy Lake Lodge's driveway and they'd, you
know, we'd see them leaving for trips, coming back from trips,
all their food supplies, everything came right down that
(09:08):
drive. Yeah, that was a that was, that
was a parking area is what I think they originally.
But I, I remember conversations early too, about we know we want
to do this where I know they looked at different lands,
other, you know, different land area other than Rainy Lake
Lodge. I think they even looked at the
backside of Deer Island. You know, all these places we
(09:31):
met, we met several times and, and walked quite a few
properties and that was, that was real interesting looking at
these different sites and then coming back round to feeling
like the really best site was going to be at Rainy Lake Lodge.
I mean, at least we could start there.
We could borrow that for the first season.
(09:54):
And then really it was the synergies of the two camps with
the transportation and the expertise back and forth.
We didn't even have any facilities.
We started camp, you know, borrowing facilities from Camp
Cooch over on Deer Island. Right, right.
I mean. Activity.
Yeah, you had nothing. I mean, I just used and this is
the great story about this wholeplace and where and how we see
(10:15):
it now, you know, and all the hurdles you had to deal with,
you know? Yeah, Well, we.
We started with girls 13 to 18, and that was because they could
look out for the trucks and the vans and everything coming down
the drive. We, I mean, we, we really
couldn't have host younger girlsuntil we took care of that
(10:37):
issue. And.
Right. Yeah.
Right. So so we made the decision this
was going to be the girls site. And then now the build out
begins and we'll get into peoplehere down and we'll start
talking about other things otherthan the actual build up of this
camp, this the physical structure.
But I do want to get into this. So we don't now know that
Ogeche's going to be located here.
(10:59):
And now the master plan becomes now, OK, let's start building
out and where do we go first? So take take us from there.
Yeah. Well, OK, initially, you know,
when we are borrowing Rainy LakeLodge, we were only a three-week
camp and then the boys camp would use its second session for
(11:20):
their staff lodge and we would have to take every semblance,
every little signage, everything, and stash it away in
the back closet so that it was, again, the boys hang out.
And so, yeah, the first thing aswe had to do, we had to decide
to take down buildings, repurposed buildings.
(11:44):
Our first building that we builtwas Eagle, the cabin way up on
the Ridge. And and then we built the next
one, Hawk. We started with lodging and, and
finally in 2014 we built the lodge, but we had to repurpose
all the things that were going on in the lodge before we could
(12:09):
take that lodge down. So we had to do all the cabins.
And yeah. And we, yeah, we, we started out
with some guys on staff and theywere in cabin 9.
And that was also our trip Center for all the gear because
that it, it was OK for them to sleep with all the gear I guess
(12:29):
and all the trip food and everything was there.
Right. So for people that that that
were what we're referring to is the old Rainy Lake Lodge, the
old cabins that they rented out to people that would stay at the
resort. And then the original Rainy Lake
Lodge restaurant slash bar was used as the main lodge until we
built the new Ogichi Lodge with that was kind of your
(12:54):
centerpiece. There was the old Rainy Lake
Lodge and we finally were able to take that down.
And once you had the new, the new place constructed.
But in the meantime, we had somepeople showing up by water, you
know, to come find the bar. People would come down and they
would actually walk in and they would ask if they could have a
dinner reservation. We're like, oh, you see, you
(13:15):
see, like 60 girls and you thinkthat you're going to get a
table. So that was kind of funny to go
through that transition. And actually one time we were
there, Bob, my husband Bob was visiting and this guy came down
and Bob talked to him for oh, a good hour.
And he's, he said, gosh, I one of your board members or
(13:36):
somebody came and I was talking for an hour and I looked out at
the guy walking away. I go, I've never seen that guy
before. It was just someone who wandered
in and you know this time. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we had a lot of that. We oh.
Yeah. And that's the, I don't know if
the scary is the right word, butthe, you have to be alert when
you're on the mainland like that, you know, and plus it
(13:58):
being an old resort, like you said, you know, people just
don't know, right? And so and so you mentioned
something earlier your your first summer too, you had 30
girls. And I think we had, I think we
had ten staff, including the Cit's.
And this exploded quickly. I mean, this caught fire pretty
quick I, I, I assume and now it's full every summer with 100
(14:23):
and. 114 girls each session. Yeah, we, so we built up that
first session and then we started lowering the ages as as
the campus become more became more safe.
And then we started second session, but started that with
the Chickadee program, just 10 days of little girls.
(14:43):
So the first session we built from the older girls down and
the second session we built likewe started that in 2010 and
started that with Chickadees andthen built up to adding the
older girls. So two different models and
first session was always Ogichi's first to sell out
biggest, you know, hit kind of thing.
(15:04):
And and Camp Kuch always had second session as their big
celebration. Right, right.
And the, the other thing we mentioned that you mentioned,
which I think is really special is that the original 10 girls
that took the first trip, I mean, you, you want to talk
about a reunion that would be just an amazing group of people
(15:26):
to get together. Do you still talk to most of
them, Kathy? Yeah, yeah.
Quite a few of them I'm in touchwith on a regular basis, two of
them being my daughters. I mean, the The funny thing is
Libby, who was 17 that first year, she just couldn't wait to
do something like the, the canoetrips that her older brothers
(15:49):
were doing. Emily, on the other hand, at 15,
thought that she should stay home with her driver's permit
and go to the pool. I mean, she preferred high heels
to hiking boots. And then I was like, Nope, you
have to come. And on the way up, see, I made
all the girls write, you know, why they were coming, what they
were looking forward to. And she was in the back of the
(16:11):
car riding hers. And it was, it was not one that
I would have put up for marketing purposes.
Right. And, but the first night on the
inaugural trip, maybe, maybe it's the first night out on
trip. We'd been in camp, you know, for
a little bit at George's house. But she stood up at our grateful
circle, which is something that started right off the bat, and
(16:33):
she said she was so grateful to be out there.
She really never had so much funin her whole life.
And that squared it up for me that no matter what a girl was
like coming to this experience, whether they went high heels and
and driver's permits or they were like couldn't wait to do
what their older brothers and fathers had done, that the
(16:54):
experience was going to work forall of them.
Right. Yeah, the great for the grateful
circle that you've mentioned. I I want to get into this a
little bit too. So you, you take over it as the
director of the girls camp. Oh, Getchi, first director
starting from scratch. What in the world's going on?
What am I doing? I mean, I'm sure there's a
(17:14):
couple times that hit you, but was there a set of like, you
know what, what was your vision,I guess going into this?
Did you have a vision of a, a certain way you wanted to, to do
this? The culture, the type of culture
you wanted to build, the type ofkids you wanted to get.
I know there's a lot of questions fired at you there,
but. Yeah, I'm sure you just.
Can't jump in and go. Drew from my personal
(17:35):
experiences. I had been to camp comedy and
loved it. I grew up summers in at our
family cabin up on Lake Superior, and my dad's best
friend that he often had their family come up with us was
Charlie Barnes, who had attendedCamp Kuchicheng for one year,
(17:56):
and he was the Boy Scout leader in Kenilworth, Illinois.
You know, Pop Pop Vance was in Evanston, so we had a contingent
on the North Shore of Chicago that went to Kuch, and Uncle
Charlie, you know, had done that.
He then was a Boy Scout leader in in Kenilworth for 50 years.
And we had the Wanigans and the tump lines and he pulled a lot
(18:18):
of the Cooch experience into theBoy Scouts.
But we would, you know, do rope swings up in Lake Superior at
the cabin. And we all had different KP, you
know, kind of tribe duties or pack duties, I think they're
called now to do. And then we'd go off on an
adventure and like he'd had the boys climb up a Birch tree
(18:39):
sapling and then he'd have us younger girls hold on to the end
of the tree and fling up into the air.
None of what we were doing was very safe.
And we we had all run amok boats.
You know that you just the kids would pray that they would work
the next day for our next adventure.
So, well, a little bit like Cooch there in the early years,
(19:00):
right? Yeah, and.
Also, I pulled just things from my family going back to the
grateful circle. That's something we have done as
a family. Not my family growing up, but
Bob and I and one of my cousins.We had the kids all around the
table and we asked them to say something they were grateful for
and it just became a tradition. We pass out three little Pinto
(19:22):
beans or corn, you know, little popcorns and that go around the
table three times and each person puts in their grateful
being and says something they'regrateful for.
And first time around it's, you know, superficial, but by time
3, it's and you couldn't repeat anything that anybody else had
(19:42):
said. So like if someone had said they
were grateful for dad and the hard work and the opportunities
we get, nobody else could say that that was in the grateful
bowl. So by round 3, it got pretty
deep and it it became a family favorite tradition.
So I took that to camp thinking and.
And I think the same thing has become a meaningful part of
(20:03):
camp. I'll get you.
Yeah. Now there's obviously, I mean,
as you're talking here, people along the way, I, I mean, that
have helped you, that have supported you that, that are big
players in this in this place. And I, I, I want you to talk
about a few people that, that, that you've either had it on
(20:24):
staff or campers or, you know, the original core group that got
the whole thing going. And I'm sure we'll leave.
We're not purposely going to leave anybody out and that's not
the purpose. But do you want to talk about
anybody that that that just stands out that that really
early, early? On it was George Simmons, J
Stare, Steve Shook. Jim shook, Amy stare, Rachel
(20:50):
shook. I mean that this Janet van der
Bark. But the ones that I worked with
daily on this were Jim and Jay and Steve and George and Tim and
George and Steve shook and I didall the early fundraising.
We would go. I was Those were funny times.
Those were really funny times. And then Steve and I took that
(21:14):
on ourselves and we would, I, I just remember neither one of us
were really comfortable doing the fundraising.
And we would sit down and we'd kind of kick each other under
the table whose turn it was to talk and do the ask.
And the one with the strongest kick was the one who didn't have
to ask. Steve's took a lot of asking.
He then became a fundraiser. And I would say.
(21:38):
You know, then, then Bart and Peggy came over and they lived
in one of the cabins and Peggy taught Jazzercise and, and this
is when Bart started doing the building.
And I mean two people who were there every minute doing
(22:01):
whatever they could. Pegg was in the kitchen with her
nephew. And this is after Curtis.
Curtis was our original cook. Oh, that's right.
And I remember. That now?
That's right, yeah. Shirtless.
Cooking hamburgers, I don't think, see, we didn't have any
rules back then. We, we weren't, we weren't a
real camp, you know, Right, Right.
It wasn't until we. Officially got a certain size
(22:23):
that anybody was looking over our shoulder.
So I mean, we had things dropping from the ceiling during
meal time. Somebody would go up there, you
know, we had water leaking through.
It was not one of those facilities that would have been
approved, nor was the kitchen. But by the time Peggy was, we
(22:44):
had Kevin Holland from Kansas City, a teacher.
He was a son of a friend of minewho owns owned restaurants.
And Kevin and his wife, Gina, came up and cooked for a couple
summers and they took out trips.And anyway, along the line,
Peggy and her nephew, who's a professional chef, took over the
(23:07):
cooking and, you know, Barton Pegg, I can't say enough about
how they were boots on the ground every minute.
And about five years into it is when Hugh was hired.
And then we had a little bit more structure, you know, a
little. I was going to ask.
You when that came in. So Hugh was hired five years
after Ogichi had already startedup.
(23:28):
Yeah, 5. Years after, and that's
including the inaugural trip, which you know that that was
that was such an amazing thing. And coming back from that
sitting in front of the couch board and John Berry was heading
that board at the time. And they asked if I would give a
report. And I said, well, instead of
(23:50):
giving a report, how about I getsome of the girls to come up?
And I think I had five of the girls and they were seated in
front of the board. And I said, I'm just going to
ask questions. And Sydney Stair was one of the
girls. And Jay is, you know, more
process and more, you know, wanted it to go well.
So he wanted to know the questions ahead of time.
(24:10):
I said, no, no, I'm not going tokill them any questions ahead of
time. I just want them to speak from
their heart, which they did. And you could, you could watch
primarily men on that board at the time becoming very kind of
choked up emotional about the answers the girls were giving
were ones that they could have given or would have given.
(24:33):
And by the end of that meeting, I, I think John Berry was on
board and he was one of our greatest opponents and said,
let's go, let's go with it. So a lot of a lot of early on
people. And then Hugh joined and, and he
and Alice were, you know, Alice did the songwriting up front and
(24:56):
we did those Friends of Ogechi events.
That was really to bring in three generations at once.
I had a lot of catching up to dowith Camp Cooch.
So started the women's trip because I would go to recruiting
and you know that sometimes the girls would sink back in their
chair if there were any girls inthe room and the parents were
(25:17):
like, I wish I could do that. So I'm like, you can we have a
woman's trip, you know, just make it up on the spot.
And and that's how we, you know,we got say, Judy Seam and Jason
was one of our early trip heads and he got his mom to come on
that trip and then she got her granddaughters involved and then
her daughters involved. It's funny how wraps around
(25:38):
these families and different generations.
Yeah, yeah. And I.
I've seen a lot of people, the kids coming back in now their
kids, you know, I've noticed, you know, not Ogechi and Kuchi
Ching both, both places, you know, they, they've got their
daughters at Ogechi and you know, and this is going to start
happening with Ogechi. Now they're, you know, their
families are going to start coming back.
You know, just give us some time.
(26:00):
Hank Bangert and Curtis, you know, our early trip heads.
And then the next summer Hank came up and he trained.
I took the staff out for staff training and now he's got 4 kids
at the camp. I mean, I think Alex is aged
out. She's in college.
But yeah, 2 girls, 2 boys at thecamps.
And Hank was a big part of starting that up, as was John
(26:23):
Powell. Who?
Yeah, took out our CIT trip. So we had a lot of crossover of
the young guys. I can't say the older men were
as big of fans as the younger guys.
And then initially I was told you can't do anything that Cooch
does. You have to make up your own
program. So you know, there was
differences starting with girls and starting with boys.
(26:45):
Yeah, I think it's great that they have that.
They have their own little, you know how you've created this and
and and and with your classes and the trip.
I mean, what you guys have is special.
I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly what's going on on the
other side of the lake. Yeah, it shouldn't be.
And I had two boys at. Camp at at Cooch at the time and
I would hear from their friends.We like it that you're doing
(27:06):
different things just keep Scoochie Ching for us and you
have Ogichi and the. The younger guys are kind of on
board with it. Yeah, I think the only.
Common thing would be the tripping, the things that come
out of the trips, the friendships that you build.
I mean, there's nothing you can do about that, right?
I mean, the, the trips are the trips and they, they create this
bond and friendship and teach you resilience.
(27:28):
I don't care what you'd try to do and how you do it.
It's just the way it is, you know?
But I do remember. Curtis and Hank on the inaugural
trip, they we had a layover day and they were shocked at I don't
know. Curtis gave us a top of a I'm a
Wan again and I don't know. We had can't remember what the
other thing is, but we had to make up skits using this this
(27:50):
prompt and Curtis and and Hank were laughing.
So I I can't believe the skits you'd send the girls off for 5
minutes. They come back, they have songs
and dances, coordinated steps, everything, He said.
It's a riot. No, they're they're.
Everything I've heard, they havean absolute ball at that camp
from the start of it, even in the difficult times.
(28:11):
I mean, if you get the right people, you can make a tough
situation a lot of fun. And I think you did that early
Kathy with your with your early people.
And I think of people like kids summers.
I mean, I just start laughing ather all just hearing her talk.
She's just so awesome. Yeah, when those.
Girls, some of these girls, theywere little girls starting out
like little 1210 and 12 year olds.
(28:33):
I know Meredith freshly, who became a very key player in the
trip center. She said Jay stare cornered her
in the basement of of the house when she was over visiting
Maddie and basically wouldn't let her come up the stairs till
she agreed to come to camp. You know, she was a little girl
and then she's just an expert tripper, married a Coochie guy
(28:54):
and they're both, I think, working on the Arctic program
Kit. What worked with me as a, you
know, basically an assistant director for I, I want to say 4,
four years or so. My daughter Libby did that job
for a while. We had a Melinda was Roscoe for
five years. So we had a lot of gals who came
(29:19):
in and we would just take the job and divide it up.
Who's ever whoever was strongestat doing that task or if I
needed to give him that task to get him to come on board and do
the job, I would like, you know,we've just split it up that way.
Yeah, that's perfect. Made it.
Fun. Yeah, and and you can make any.
Situation fun so going back to the beginning I mean I I got to
(29:41):
ask you this before we move on here I mean here you you you you
threw your name in the hat for this director's job you get you
take it over you're sleeping in a tent in the backyard for your
first trip nog your own trip then you get rainy lake lodge
which has nothing but a bat infested lodge and you know all
(30:01):
these crazy I mean did you ever sit back and go Bob I don't know
what did what what in the heck did I just do here or or was it
the whole time you were pretty much we're going to make this go
and yeah I mean that's the. Thing about starting it with a
group, I, you know, either George or Jay or or Jim, What
(30:26):
would call, I'd pretty much get a call, you know, 3-4 times a
week and checking in. And no, I, I mean, I'm used to
doing entrepreneurial things. That's been kind of our Bob's
and my mode of operation. And also growing up in the
woods, we always were just making do with things.
(30:46):
I, I didn't have to have it perfect by any means and we
would just kind of make we had so much laughter about things.
The girls there were, there weren't any drawers, anything.
I said, well, guys, use the refrigerator for your clothes.
Sydney Stair was laughing so hard getting her tripping boots
out of the refrigerator in theselittle cabins.
And we would just repurpose things all the time to make it
(31:09):
work. I.
I just think that's awesome. I mean, I, you know, I've
tripped with people like Kuchicheng in the past where
they were miserable to be with and then I could trip with
someone and there were, it rained every day and we had the
best time of our lives. So I think that kind of hearing
you say that, Kathy, what you went through and how you
approach things that that comes off and the kids see that.
(31:31):
And I mean that that's that's exactly the type of leadership
that I think that having you there, that's why it was so
important having you there to get this thing off the ground.
That's probably why it's so strong today.
Because of that, you know, I think we had the right person in
the right place. Yeah.
Well, thank you. Certainly at the right time.
I'll, I'll tell you one story about early on, which was kind
(31:52):
of frightening. Katie Lonsdale, who had had come
from England and she had cousinsover at the boys camp and she
wanted to trip. Kenny Metcalf was her trip head.
Susie Jolly was on that trip andKenny's fiance was on that trip
and Kenny called me. They were on the Allen water and
(32:14):
he called me, said Katie Lonsdale is, she's struggling.
And then he'd call and say no, she's OK Katie Lonsdale is
struggling. This has been back and forth and
finally he said I just, I, I think we've got to get her off
the trip. So Campbell Jolly and I drove up
7 hours to Sue Lookout and oh, Itook one look at her and I was
(32:36):
like, we got to get her in the car and we took her back, drove,
you know, I, I got stopped by one of the Canadian policemen
for speeding and I said I, I think this girl is, she's very
sick. I think she might even have an
appendicitis. And so he said follow me.
And we, we, you know, we're probably going 120 at that time.
(32:57):
He speed all the way, got us across the border to the
hospital. Sure enough, she had an
appendicitis and that was my early director on duty.
I had to figure that whole thingout and then I, she was in the
hospital for a week because it was a perforated appendix.
And you know, I just brought herback at the end of that and
(33:18):
stuck her down in Rainy Lake Lodge.
We really worked out of one room.
We had bedrooms upstairs, but wehad, you know, that we'd
collapse the tables to have activities, send them back up
for another meal. Katie Lonsdale was over by this
counter that we used as the store and just set her bed up
there because she couldn't go upand down the stairs and the
couch cousins would come over and visit her.
(33:40):
And I mean, that's just the spirit of thing.
And we just had to make it work right?
And the and the decision making at both ends, your end and
Kenny's end. I mean, hey, something's not
right. I mean this happens a lot and
yes, but I I don't think we could.
Be a real camp until we could catch up the facilities.
(34:01):
I mean, the facilities were problematic, you know, and I, I
do remember one mom coming up and just being so shocked her
daughter's had had the best time, but she just couldn't get
over the facilities. So I would say that early group
of people, those were parents who are all on board with this
do whatever it takes kind of spirit.
(34:21):
So that was our initial crowd ofparents.
That was our initial crowd of campers.
And I do think that launched kind of a that strong spirited
way of thinking and that strong spirited attitude because those
that was our initial group. And then later on when the some
of the Kuch guys would come overand go, you have it so easy over
(34:44):
here. After we have this beautiful
lodge, I'm going. You have no idea.
No idea what we. Started with no some of the.
Younger ones, don't you know, they just think that's just
they, they watered the ground and that thing went up, you
know, but no, I think some of our.
Most loyal supporters, you know,Hard times build bonds that are
(35:05):
unbreakable and, and and to thisday, I think many of us in those
early years are just so committed to each other.
Oh, absolutely going. Through that, I mean, I that
bonds got to be that's why I wassaying that original 10 group of
kids that took that first trip. I mean that that's a great
group. I mean, well, some of some of
them never came. Back a few of them didn't come
(35:27):
back, but but that happened. I mean, if you talk about the
original group in a larger sensethat you're talking about the
early people on that early, it was an Okichi dock way.
I don't know if we called it a committee, steering committee or
something. I don't think we were even
aboard. But you, you look at that group
of people and, and the, the early people that that showed up
(35:53):
or the parents of people that showed up like the polls and
then, you know, Sharon Walsh, John's sister and Sarah, it just
is amazing that the bond is, is we can go back 20 years and
laugh about things and remember it's so clearly and the
commitment to each other is juststrong as made.
(36:14):
Stronger through the. Years.
Well, you built a great. Foundation with the with the,
the attitude, the way you attacked the early tough years
and all of you, I mean under your leadership.
But you got we, we got the facilities going.
We got barred out there, got himoff his rear end and got him to
finally do something. I'm just kidding.
(36:35):
But so you you. Go in and looking at the in camp
Kathy at your your programs in camp, the things going on in
camp before we get out to the trips.
What do you like? I mean, what, what are the kids
seem to like and what do you seem to like about what you're
doing? What you started from an in camp
once you got your facilities up and going, was there a big hit
(36:55):
for people? You know, every time I talk to
Bart, he said, Jeff, these girlsare having an they're absolutely
crazy. They're funny.
They're having a ball and he would tell me stories.
I would just be cracking up laughing and, well, you know.
We there's something different about growing the growing years
(37:16):
than there is once you're a fullcamp.
But we don't have enough of any age group to have anything like
units or age. And we just had kind of this, I
think Charlotte Bergkamp called it festival seating.
It was just like sit wherever you want for any meal.
We had round tables so that nobody was hidden and we had
(37:39):
conversations and but there would be like 10 year olds with
60 year olds. We didn't have like the staff
tables and, and that was I wanted the, we had tablecloths
and I wanted the, the meal time to be the extension of family
meals where you, I said, guys, you can't possibly experience
(38:01):
everything in a day that there is to experience.
So our meal times are times to talk about what other people
have done during the day and learn from them.
And maybe it's something you want to try.
And then the different ages would, you know, foster
conversations. And we would always have a
program at the end of every meal.
I mean, even if it was silly, asif you think your legs are are
(38:24):
worse, have more mosquito bites than anybody else.
Come on up here. And they'd stand on a bench and
we'd have a contest about the mosquito, you know, the mosquito
bites. Or we'd have girls stand up and
tell like a story of the day. It had to be had some humor or
some kind of lesson in it. And they would stand up.
And I, I mean, I swear those girls became public speakers.
(38:44):
They were so good at getting up in front of a crowd of all
different ages, not intimidated.We had stories that we would
tell. I mean, one of them was seat 29
E and seat 29 E is the place on the airplane that that is right
by the the the restrooms in the back.
(39:04):
It's just the chair doesn't go back.
It's well, you know, ripe with smells and just nothing about it
is good. And and we would say, OK, you
know, sometimes you're going to get seat 29 E, but we still
expect the same kind of good attitude expedition behavior.
We had skits, you know, to get them ready for their their
(39:24):
trips. And I just think there's so much
laughter going on all the time. But you could do that with a
wide age range of kids, the older kids, you know,
entertaining the younger ones and vice versa.
So you you could you could go. And eat and each meal you'll
you'll sit with a good differentgroup of people possibly each
(39:46):
meal probably is that is that the way I'm that's awesome.
I think that's great, that. That built a community spirit
absolutely every. Girl at.
Camp knew everybody's name. There was not.
There was not. Oh yeah, I guess she was there
at the same time, but I never saw her.
I didn't know her. No.
They were in activities together.
They the only thing we did by age was the cabins.
(40:10):
Gotcha. Yeah, we, I, I.
Just literally took their birthdays, 12345678, boom, you
know, down the list. So everybody was and they
wouldn't get the same cabins every year 'cause people would
drop out and people would come in.
But basically that was all by age.
Everything else was and, and I, I did love the fact that, as Sid
Stare told me, I've spent all myyears in sports.
(40:33):
I've never done art. But you know what?
I go over and do the art classesand I'm there with 10 year olds
and 12 year olds and you know, I'm, I'm older, but my artwork
turns out just like theirs and doesn't matter, you know, and
vice versa, you'd have someone who has spent all their time at,
in art and they go over and playsports with the girl, you know,
(40:55):
the, the, the younger girls and they would like, Hey, this is
fine. I'm, I'm pretty good at kickball
with the 10 year olds and they just had fun.
So I, I think there was a lot of, and there was a lot of
teaching like so at riflery, forinstance, we, we had riflery and
archery and, and we had climbingon that actual Rockwall.
(41:18):
But it was nice that we had multiple ages because you, you
would beef up the staff ratio basically when you had the older
girls in there with the younger girls.
You're right and that. Those activity facilities I've
seen build out, you know, I'd goup early a lot in April to help
Bart out from from year to year when I could.
And, you know, watching that whole place grow out.
(41:39):
I mean, there's you've got the ball field, you've got the
pickleball courts, you've got the rifle Rangers, a new
climbing tower now out there on the ball field.
So I mean, there's a lot of things that have grown up over
the years to give you a better in camp activity standpoint.
And you got the, the basket weaving and then the songwriting
and and I, I, you know, the artsthat there's a boat building
(42:00):
building. Is that up?
Is that up by the shop? Is that correct?
Yes, yes. Well, it was fun.
Bart and I would have coffee, you know, I 5:30 in the morning
and we would talk about, you know, projects and what we're
going to do next night. I can remember early on I was
like Bart, I, I think we need some kind of bookshelf to
(42:21):
separate the living area of the lodge with the dining area.
And you know, by noon there it was all built.
You know he doesn't let any any Moss grow for sure.
And and then it was like, what? Color, do you want it?
I was like, oh, kind of like AI don't know, like a green OOP by
dinner. It was painted, you know, and we
(42:41):
would talk about, Oh yeah, I remember the, the, the problem
for me was that the reason we built that building that's like
the welcome center boat building, is that on the arrival
days or the departure days, we would have parents just
wandering in and we wouldn't even know they were there.
(43:02):
They would have maybe gone up tothe cabins because the lodge was
one of the last things you came across.
And so we talked about building a, you know, a welcome center,
multi purpose and and that's whythat came about.
I think it was approved after itwas semi built.
(43:23):
That was one of those ideas thatBart and I had seemed like so
good. You know, surely we had talked
about building another building,but we we thought that was an
excellent idea and it's turned out to be a good idea.
And now and. Now we have the the alumni house
going in for the alumni would love.
That so much Oh yeah name. Jay's name?
(43:46):
Yeah, yeah, Bart picked the most.
Difficult location of all alumnihouse.
I mean, he's, he's crazy how I saw him this summer going.
Up and down the east, I'm sick of going up and down this Cliff.
I'm like, hey, he said. But it's going to be sturdy, I
can tell you that. So I mean, it's pretty.
Impressive. We had early on, we had this,
this place that we call Dan Schneid named it.
(44:08):
It was called Sacred Heights. And you could go.
It's one level above the Alumni House and you'd climb up there.
I remember pulling, pulling and pushing and helping Ed Betts get
up there. And he stood up there and just,
you know, eyes water this most beautiful place on the whole
site. And, and Bart, I know wanted to
(44:30):
build something up there, but I'm glad he stopped at that
lower level that that it's pretty high up there, you know,
and alumni, you didn't just hateto see him take a few steps
right off down to the ball field.
So. So let's go real quick.
Let's get out a lot of the in camp going onto the trips.
Is there is there a certain tripthat that that that that the
(44:50):
kids just love or that you can think of or I mean, I know now
you have groups taken going up to the Bay now.
I mean, this thing is gone just absolutely such big time
tripping. I just think it's outstanding.
And of course, Catherine Heinle has been one that's been leading
some of those trips up there whoI know really well.
(45:11):
But your tripping program to thekids seem to like it.
Is there a certain trip that they really like?
Is there? You know, I think of my days, I
think of the English and the blood vein and things like that.
You know, I don't know if there's anything special that
they like that they all go. On, you know, we're the turtle
and the English and the Allen water.
So when you say are there trips the girls like they like the
(45:33):
ones that that they've gone on and that they can talk to other
people and they can, you know, hit the highlights.
But in the tripping center, we started writing the names of the
rivers on the boards on the perimeter.
So you could go in there and they would site all the, you
know, and then we had the Kopka,Ellen water Kopka.
We had then Lindsay took a groupon the mountain river.
(45:57):
We, we didn't go to the Bay initially because of the, the
polar bear sightings. And that was kind of Coochie's
big trip. So we went the other direction
and we did some other big trips.And they were, they were not
ones that they could talk to their fathers about having gone
on, but they were equally tough and equally long.
(46:18):
And and then I was probably the barrier to the art to the Bay
trips just because of the early beginnings and needing to do
things differently than Cooch did.
But yeah, Catherine Heinle S LEDthose trips and very 6 mostly.
And the girls love them. But I think the big night at
2017 when 6 N of 60, when those girls took that 72 day trip, I
(46:46):
think it was 2600 miles and theydid all the planning themselves.
Those were our key, you know, trip planners, trip people.
Meredith Freshly. Lindsay.
Yep. Spangler.
Maddie. Stare Sammy Armacost Was there a
(47:06):
Sikh girl on? That trip?
Marie's Marissa. Sikh.
Yeah, her dad was in camp with. Mia Cooch, she's my counselor.
One year. Yeah, David, just awesome.
Trippers and when they came backI think people were pretty much
in awe of their presentation howintentionally were about taking
care of each other and and how you know they set the canoe
(47:31):
table and they they came back looking like they were you know
they didn't have that skinny. I need to send you to the ER
look that some of the boys tripswould come back.
These girls would come back and they let beautiful, healthy,
vibrant. It's like a different form of of
care during the trip and for their food and planning all that
(47:54):
ahead of time. So I mean.
We, we've seen it's talking about the, the, the, I don't
know if rough's the right word, but humble beginnings, I guess
maybe is a good way to put it ofthe whole start of this thing to
see it now. Kathy is amazing where it is not
only from a physical standpoint of the physical facility, but
(48:15):
from what I see on the outside looking in is some great bond,
some great friendships and just a great, great, great foundation
for the future of this place anda fun place for girls to be.
Are there any stories, Kathy? Before we get off this thing,
I'll give you, I'll open the micup to you to share any goofy or
funny or fun or not so fun stories that you have.
(48:38):
I'm sure there's a there's more.You've forgotten more than you
can remember, I'm sure. But oh, I I remember, but.
You know, when the stories come up is when you're sitting with
other people and they they start.
You know, I mean, like, I, I mean, there was, I think some of
the preseason stories are the funniest of all.
Like Bart and I were just talking about this one when he
(49:01):
built Snowshoe Hare and Crow on the same Ridge as the as the
Great Lodge. He had set a toilet out there
and it wasn't set yet, but it was just out in the room.
Haley Simmons went up to paint and she painted right around the
(49:24):
edge of the toilet sitting in the room so that when you lifted
it up that floor was a Bart would get the biggest kick out
of these things working with thegirls.
And we developed this this brandcalled Ogichi perfect.
It was so not perfect, but you know, I remember the stair girls
helping me stain the big great lodge window facing out to the
(49:46):
lake and Jim Hanson had come over and selected a stained
color and off we went. You know, stay where had
specific instructions about staining it and then wiping it
off quickly. And then we had a a final coat
to put on and Gretchen and Maddie got a little confused and
they put another big layer of the dark stain.
(50:07):
And I mean this it, it went fromthe desired color to like way
too dark. And we just, you know, what
could you do but laugh? It was already done and I turned
out better than it initially would have.
We're still, I know there is because I was there a couple
years ago. There's still a piece of
painters tape up in the corner of the lot left from Meredith
(50:28):
and Kitt's painting. Oh my gosh, I don't know.
They one time Megan Maycheck, she stole Bart's boots and she
put rhinestones all over his boots and Bart would take these
things and oh, he told me. He was the.
Center of so many pranks and such a good sport about it.
(50:48):
Yeah, he loves it. He loves.
It and they put those rhinestonepiece all over as as a Gator too
or as rhino, whatever, whatever it was yeah no, I I mean.
This is a fun thing about getting together for that 120
year gatherings. We got together at at in
Evergreen Co and we get togetheragain in Cincinnati.
(51:09):
You get a group of I mean, 2 is fine, but three or more you
can't believe. Well, you know, you've
experienced the same thing. The stories, the and then people
supply details that you've kind of forgotten about.
Yeah, it's got. To be fun for you, Kathy.
I mean, I, I've seen it, you know, obviously I've lived it in
(51:29):
my stories with the, with my people that I went to camp with.
But the energy that I see a group of girls sitting there
from Ogichi alumni, alumni or whatever and talking about their
times and bringing people in, the energy and the fun and the
passion that they have is so much fun to see.
And that's for you. I mean, I can't imagine, you
(51:53):
know, what that would be like. I mean, as a coach, when I coach
basketball, college basketball for many years, one of the most
rewarding things for me was to go get invited to one of our
players weddings. And this has got to be similar
for you, seeing the girls reunite to tell the stories
about something that you were really the cornerstone behind
creating. I mean, that's just got to feel
(52:14):
so good. I come from A.
Family of community builders andso the the desire to see this
turn into a functioning healthy community was was a vision that
was one I kind of grew up with. You know, how do you turn
(52:35):
something into a community wherethe and to have three
generations of women living together at all different ages,
different friendships. I mean, you know, Erica's travel
with Emily Spangler. They're not related to different
generations. And then Erica's daughter.
It those kind of things just areso heart warming to see, you
(52:59):
know, people taking on other people's family members as their
own and just the the sharing andin here now Bart and Peggy and I
are related, which is crazy. Congratulations.
Getting married. Yes, that's awesome.
I said we made it official. Our camp family members are now
actual related family members so.
(53:22):
Yeah, and I see the. Girls out in Colorado, I mean,
they, I talked to Kit and mayor,they, they, I think talk to each
other every day. This group of girls out there
that grew up together, it's it'sfiercely loyal group.
It's awesome. I I mean I've seen.
Them and it's just fun to watch and it just like I said, it
reassures that what's going on up there is being done right and
(53:45):
and it's having a great impact. And you, you accomplished what
you set out to do, right. I mean, you wanted to start a
girls camp. You wanted them to have fun.
You wanted to build leadership qualities in women, which you've
done. I mean, we could go on and on
and go out to go for example, after example after example of
different people, I'm sure, and be here all day.
(54:07):
But you did a great thing, Kathy, get this thing up and
running. And I think there's so many
young people today that are verythankful for what you've done
and the time and effort you spent to get that thing moving.
But more importantly to there's going to be many, many, many,
many women down the in the future, they're going to be able
to experience this because of the wonderful foundation that
(54:30):
you built there with how you howthat thing's running.
So I'm sure I speak for a lot ofpeople to say thank you, you
know, and we certainly want to appreciate.
I appreciate. That very much and I've one of
the final things I'll say is as the years went on, you could see
the community extending to the Cooch community and the 2 two
(54:52):
groups, 2 camps overlapping and blending and becoming one
camping Education Foundation. And thanks to Hugh for a lot of
of that. And I think Jr. and I recruiting
together and then we change friends of Ogechi to friends of
Coochin Ogechi. And I think now you have a much
more interrelated foundation andI think what you've got now.
(55:19):
Too, Kathy, which is really big is a ton of mutual respect
between both places now, which is great.
You know, that's, that's what's really important.
And I see it and I hear it and it's great to see.
And like I said, it's, it's a it's in a great spot from a
physical plant standpoint. And, and certainly, you know,
with the people and, and the direction that it's, it's going
(55:42):
with what you built. So anyway, listen, we appreciate
you coming on today and hopefully we could still stay in
touch if we hopefully you'll still stay around and and be a
part of different events and we'll see you at a Christmas
event here and there. And but Kathy, thanks a bunch.
Yeah. Thank you very much for joining
us.
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