Hormones, Stress, and Longevity with Dr. Carrie Jones

Episode Transcript
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UNKNOWN (00:00):
Bye.

SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Welcome back to Future Lab.
Denise, Trevor, how are you?
Good.

SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
Yeah, good.
Good today.
Yep, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_04 (00:09):
I got the jacket on because I'm from the Gold Coast,
you know, and for people thataren't from Australia, that's
actually quite warm.
It's like saying I'm fromFlorida.

SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (00:17):
And we're here in Melbourne, which is like saying
we're here in New York.

SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Well, you're looking like Neo at the moment with that
jacket.
It is.
It's the

SPEAKER_04 (00:23):
brown, it's the earthy version of Neo, but I
actually had a puffer on andDenise goes, can you put that
other jacket back on?
It looks cool.
So, you know, I'm

SPEAKER_02 (00:31):
trying to be- some fashion stuff

SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
I'm trendy Trev Hendy this morning but it's
beautiful to be here and middleof winter and we've got a great
guest

SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
we do we're going to be talking about stress hormones
and how that relates tolongevity and well-being can I
just say one thing really

SPEAKER_04 (00:48):
quickly I had my fourth grandchild at 3.24am this
morning I didn't personally havethat my daughter Christelle did
congratulations little Ziggy Jarrived into the world so yeah
so it's been a big couple

SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
of days that's a big day Yeah, beautiful.
So that would have involved alittle bit of stress leading up
to that.
Yeah, tension.
And

SPEAKER_04 (01:07):
even the fact that when you get, like as a
grandfather, it's this feelingof, okay, and this is going to
sound weird, but anotherresponsibility.
Oh, right.
It's not a negative.
It's more like, okay, bring him,like your arms get wider and
your wings get bigger and you'relike, okay, there's more in the
fold now.
So there's a little part of methat's enjoying and there's
another part of me going, okay,I've got another little part of

(01:30):
the nest that I've got to

SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
look out for.
Yeah, but that sounds like agood sort of stress.
It is.
It's actually a beautifulstress.
So I think what we'll do is Ithink Carrie will really help us
in terms of distinguishing thedifferent types of stress.
So let's introduce Carrie.
She's over in the States.
So Carrie Jones, she's anaturopath and from what I read
in your bio, the queen ofhormones.
So you're all about stress andhormones.

(01:53):
I'll tell you what, I'll leaveit to you.
The queen of hormones.

SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
Hang on, that doesn't sound good on the wrong
day,

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
does it?
I know Carrie very well and I'msure many of the listeners that
tuning in probably do know whoCarrie is too, and she actually
is the queen of hormones in thesense that if you want to know
about hormones, you're going tolook up Carrie.
You're going to talk to Carrie.
She has been in this field forso long.
She's definitely the expert, butyou can tell us all about it,
Carrie.
Yeah, give us a bit ofbackground.
Welcome.

(02:18):
Why are you the queen?
I know why you're the queen ofhormones, but for the listeners
that don't know you, please tellus.

SPEAKER_03 (02:23):
Well, first of all, let me just say this is the
greatest intro I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Was the queen of hormones big?
Because that could have gone anyway.
I'm

SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
glad that I mean, just the whole, your whole
banter back and forth.
I was just over here laughinghysterically.
So I'm honored to be a part ofthe show.
Thank you for having me, firstand foremost.
Yeah.
And I got into, I mean, I'llstart with, I got into hormones
because way back a long time agoin school, my introduction into

(02:53):
hormones was taught by thefootball coach.
What we have in the UnitedStates is the American football,
right?
And so he was like, here's yourintro to health.
And I thought, I didn't learnanything.
This is terrible.
And when I went into medicalschool and got into hormones, I
realized how much I didn't knowand how much I wanted to focus
on hormones, mostly because of aselfish point of view And so

(03:15):
many people, men and women,don't really know what's going
on with their body, let alonethe hormonal aspect.
I had so many women that wouldsay, I didn't know that.
I didn't know that's what washappening with my body.
I didn't know that's how itaffected it.
I had a lot of women who werelike, I had no idea about my
menstrual cycle, how I gotpregnant, anything, menopause.

(03:35):
And so that kicked off a 20 plusyear search and education into
hormones.
And I think that's probablyprobably why I got the wonderful
moniker of the queen of hormonesbecause that's what I'm just
sort of like immersed myself inyeah selfishly and now I like to
tell the world about it

SPEAKER_04 (03:56):
so what do you mean selfishly what why for you
personally did you really wantto know about what were you
going through what were youexperiencing what what brought
you from a personal passionlevel to it

SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
when I got into medical school my mentor who was
the time was in her 40s andstruggling with perimenopause
and I thought what is this thingshe's going through.
Even though my mom had gonethrough menopause, watching my
mentor do it also up close andpersonal, I'm like, why don't
women know this?
Listening to friends withendometriosis, women who'd been
diagnosed with PCOS, women withbreast cancer, women trying to

(04:30):
become pregnant.
And there was always this, Idon't know.
I went to my doctor.
I was told I was fine.
I don't feel fine.
I was offered the birth controlpill and no other option.
I got lab work done.
I Nothing came back and I don'tunderstand.
And so selfishly, for goodreasons, I thought there has to
be more to this.

(04:51):
Well, self-interest.
Hormones keep coming up.
There has to be more.

SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
But you've got a very different approach though.
So where the doctors seem tofall short and cause
frustration, you seem to take adifferent approach and as a
result seem to have gained somesuccess there.
So what are the differences inyour approach?

SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Well, so personally, I will say, because I have to
start with this, is that one, Ilike Well, I call it gossip.
I like gossip.
I'm really nosy.
And so it became this, well, howdoes that work?
And then how does that work?
It became peeling back thelayers.
And so I got really intohormones and the level of
hormones in my patients becauseI just couldn't take the

(05:32):
superficial answer of, we don'tknow or there's nothing wrong
with you.
I'm like, no, there's clearlysomething wrong with you.
Let's dive deep.
Tell me all the things.
I want to hear it.
And that just perpetuatedpatient after patient after
patient.
But on a broader, grander scale,my approach as a naturopathic
doctor here in the States is totake that whole person

(05:54):
personalized approach and tounderstand hormones are impacted
and affected by all the systemsof the body.
You cannot talk about hormonesand only relegate it to
reproduction.
You can't look at a woman andonly think reproduction because
we know her hormones impact herimmune system, her neurologic
system.

(06:14):
Right.
Her cardiovascular system,musculoskeletal system, et
cetera, et cetera.
And so by only looking at it asa reproductive bent, we've done
her a major disservice.
And so once I realized that andbeing a woman, I was like, whoa,
I need to protect my brain, myimmune system, my bones, and I
need to protect that of all mypatients and helping to serve

(06:36):
them appropriately instead ofthe conventional route, which
does well on the screeningtests, the acute, the emergent.
But once they're beyond that,they don't have the time for it,
unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
Yeah.
Well, look, we definitely wantto cover hormones in great
detail, but we want to alsofocus on stress as well and
perhaps how that feeds into ourhormone system.
And to discuss stress, I thinkthat when people think of
stress, it's this sort ofgeneral feeling that people have
in their mind, but there aredifferent types of stress.

(07:13):
And particularly, I'm thinkingchronic and acute, so short-term
and long-term.
What are the different types ofstresses in that sense, and how
do they impact our hormonesystem in particular and our
general health more widely?
I

SPEAKER_03 (07:26):
feel like the answer to that is just a resounding
yes, like full stop yes, eventhough you asked me multiple
questions in there.
When we think of stress, stressis a couple of things.
Stress is emotional.
Stress is physical.
Stress is environmental.
Any of those categories, thosebuckets, can impact our system.

(07:47):
Stress can also be actual.
You're actually stressed out.
You actually got an upsettingtext message.
You actually got in a fight withyour significant other.
You actually are going throughsomething.
Stress can also be anticipated.
So the stress isn't actuallythere, but you're anticipating
it be there.
The response is the same in thebody.
And stress can also be imagined.

(08:07):
So if you are a person whoalways goes to the worst case
scenario, if you're alreadyimagining the stress happening,
even if it doesn't actually everhappen.
If you're making things granderor blowing them up and they
don't maybe need to be, yourbody doesn't know the
difference.
It's responding.
Now, when it comes to levels orlayers of stress, acute stress
is usually something that's inthe moment and it's to protect

(08:30):
us and save us.
If you are driving your car andyou almost get in an accident,
somebody swerves in your lane, Iwant my stress response to react
immediately.
Save me, give me cat-likereflexes and help me get out of
that situation.
If there's actually a tiger infront of me, I want my stress
system to react.
If I'm actively fighting avirus, I want my stress system

(08:53):
to react.
The problem is when things likethat become more chronic,
repetitive, either one thing ischronic, it's an ongoing issue,
the same issue, or every dayit's something that is sort of
putting you over the top.
That is, your bucket isoverflowing.
You just feel stressed out,burned out and overwhelmed all

(09:16):
the time, that's when we can getinto problems.
And I fully recognize thatstress can be for the good.
Trevor, you just said you had agrandchild.
Stressful, but it's a goodstress.
Weddings, hopefully, cross yourfingers.
In the end, it's a good stress,right?
There can be really great jobinterviews.
Very stressful, but in the end,hopefully, you got your dream
job.

(09:36):
Good stress.
We want to stretch the body,stretch the system, but I don't
want to do it in a negativemanner all day, every day.
with no downtime, no recovery,because that's when we get into

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
problems.
So what you're talking about isa good stress planning for a
wedding or going for that jobinterview is you get stress
leading up to that event.
It might be stressful duringthat event, hopefully not the
wedding, but then the event'sover and the stress dissipates
as opposed to chronic stresswhere we just seem to carry that

(10:08):
and it just doesn't go away.
So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:11):
And I like the way that you did different between
stress because I know when I wasrecovering from my autoimmune
condition, and I'm sure thishappens with many of our
patients and possibly some ofthe listeners, you start to get
scared of stress because we knowit is a cause of hormonal
imbalance, autoimmune, chronicdisease.
I know when I'm stressed, myskin flares.

(10:35):
So I do a lot of public speakingand international travel.
And I remember one day justabout to go on stage and I just
thought, I can't do this anymorethis is too much stress for me
it's making me sick and it'sactually not it wasn't actually
that event because I love what Ido absolutely love it and
there's a high when you come offbut it is really nerve-wracking

(10:57):
but I really had to teach myselfabout the good and the bad
stress and not be scared of lifeand I think that's what we need
to teach people as well is thatyes chronic stress like we said
the ongoing not coping withthings or having that system on
all the time but these littlestresses where like you said we
should stretch ourselves, thatactually, that engagement in

(11:18):
life, that, you know, getting tothose next goals, I think is
really important.

SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
It almost contributes to our growth,
doesn't it?
Exactly.
That is growth.
So

SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
stress is growth.
Yes.
And, and, and actually helps

SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
us.
Yeah.
Right.
Think of exercise.
You, you, you go to the gym oryour workout at home and
hopefully gradually over time,you get better at whatever
you're doing.
So it's lifting.
You can lift more reps or moreweights.
Like it's this, people forgetthe act of exercise is a minor
stress to the body.
We're stretching the muscles,we're stretching the brain,
we're stretching the system, thebones to do better.

(11:52):
And so it's a good thing, unlessyou overexercise, then it's a
bad thing.
But it's a good thing in theselittle bursts.
And Denise, one of the thingsyou said was realizing not to be
afraid of stress.
And I think when we think of thenervous system, safety is a big
part of it.
So feeling stressed, but alsofeeling safe in your environment

(12:14):
is really in your body, in yourrelationship, in your job makes
a big difference.
If Trevor was talking about hisgrandchild being born, but he
was not feeling safe in hisbody, not feeling safe in his
relationship, then the thoughtof a grandchild is dreadful.
It's adding to everything.

(12:34):
It's adding to the lack ofsafety.
But if he felt really good inthe rest of his life, this
little bit of stress is excitingand stretching and good for the
body, And I think people, wedon't get taught that.
And if we were taught that at ayoung age, it would make such a

SPEAKER_04 (12:50):
difference.
I'm loving this conversation,Carrie, firstly.
You said at the start, and thisreally blew me away, because I'm
big on awareness.
You can only really benegatively affected or taken out
by what you can't see, what youdon't understand, what's snuck
in.
So you said stress is emotional,physical, environmental, actual,

(13:12):
anticipated, and imagined.
Do you to name a few what I loveabout that is that people can
say straight away oh this issomething I need to understand I
need to get clarity on becauseI'm clearly affected at all
these different levels but someof it's good some of it's bad
some of it can be managed someof it I've got to stop and
remove myself from or you knowconfront so and

SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
some of it's not real by the way it's not real
it's imagined you're causing astress response for something
that's not even

SPEAKER_04 (13:37):
anticipated based on something I've experienced
before so we know you know Iknow I would say I'm a big
student of this so a lot of myquestions are going to come from
I'm passionate aboutunderstanding this but you know
I know for example if someone'sattacked by someone wearing a
red hat you know they can walkaround the corner 10 years later
if that hasn't been fullyresolved and understood the

(13:58):
trauma of it someone walksaround the corner with a red hat
and they'll get this stressresponse so there's this memory
mechanism in the body there'sthis so then there's this
anticipated or perceived orimagined thing that's not real
so the body's incredible becauseit's picking up on all these
cues but the cues can start toget skew-iff.
So I suppose my question is,firstly, so we can work our way

(14:20):
through this, is what are thehormones that are produced when
we're in stress?
So what are the things that aregood in the right amounts and at
the right time?
And I'm thinking about, I wentthrough a while back, I went
through financial difficulties,financial challenges,
financially tight, passionateand enthusiastic in other areas,
but financially tight.
So if all of a sudden I got likea speeding fine or something or

(14:44):
something came across the deskthat was like another$150 or I
forgot insurance has to be paidnow.
That number on that page wouldmake me go, it would just drop
me into this dread because I wasaware in the back of my mind, I
could see the bank balancefloating around the back of the
mind and owed money by this andthat.
So everything was hyper intenseand anything could knock me

(15:08):
over.
It was like my resilience wasway down.
So what in that moment and anyother moment like that people
have with their health or theirchildren's behaviors or whatever
it is.
What hormones would I have beenproducing too much of?
What was I stuck in when I wasin that moment?

SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
Yeah, you were stuck in fight or flight is what you
were stuck in.
So we have two sides to ournervous system.
We have what's called thesympathetic, which is what we
think of the survival, fight,flight, freeze, or fawn.
And then the other side is ourparasympathetic.
So that's our rest, digest,repair, heal the And we go back
and forth all day long.

(15:46):
That is natural and normal.
But when we were in the fight orflight stage, the two major
hormones that get made areadrenaline, which is called
epinephrine, and cortisol.
Your body stores adrenaline tobe dropped within milliseconds.
When you get the speeding finefor$150 and you have the sense

(16:09):
of dread, the hormone releasedimmediately is adrenaline,
epinephrine.
because your body doesn't knowthat you're just looking at a
piece of paper with numbers onit.
All it feels is the immediateemotional response, dread.
And it's like, holy Moses, Ihave got to drop some hormone
quickly in case they need torun, fight, do something to save

(16:31):
themselves, save the body.

SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
So you're physiologically, your body and
your brain, your primitive braindoesn't know the difference
between that parking fine orthat speeding fine or a lot.
It's that same physiologicalresponse.
This

SPEAKER_04 (16:47):
amazing system is confused based on the way we're
perceiving the situation and I'min the inappropriate hormone.

SPEAKER_03 (16:54):
And can I just say, I'm sorry, it's primitive.
It's a primitive response.
So we biologically have caughtup to the modern day age of text
messages, emails, Zoom meetingscompared to lions and tigers and
bears.
Oh my.

SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
And

SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
I think it was wonderful that you shared that,
Trevor, because you talked aboutyour resilience coming down and
Carrie, you may not know Trevorbut he was a world famous iron
man and as someone told me atthe airport just yesterday the
fittest guy in the world in the80s and I would say you're still
extremely fit and you'reresilient and you take very good
care of your I mean I've beenworking with you now for a few

(17:30):
months I see the way you eat inbetween podcasts running around
you know exercising in themorning so you're someone that
does a lot of these things thatwould be building resilience but
still you had that emotional andstress response

SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
so I needed to upskill myself on my
understanding in this area a fewyears ago.
That's why I say I'm apassionate student about it
because the sympathetic and theparasympathetic nervous system,
once I went, what?
Oh, right.
So I'm over there, but I don'thave to be over there if I
recognize where I am and how Igot there and recognize the
inappropriateness of it.
I can use methods to bring meback, which we'll ask Carrie

SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
a little bit later.
So that experience, so thefinancial issues that you were
trying to address, that's anexample of chronic stress.
Now, it sounds like it waslimited, so it didn't carry over
for years and years.
But there are situations wherepeople carry chronic stress for
years and years.
And when you talk about cortisoland adrenaline, what are the

(18:27):
downstream effects of that?
What are the health implicationsof that for someone who
experiences that?

SPEAKER_03 (18:33):
I'll give you a couple.
So the first thing you think ofright away is it affects heart
rate, blood pressure, right?
So in acute situation, Trevor'sheart rate and blood pressure
probably went up.
But if you were experiencingadrenaline, cortisol often in
your day, then it's now maybeyou've been diagnosed with a
high heart rate or high bloodpressure.
High blood sugar is another bigissue because both adrenaline,

(18:57):
epinephrine and cortisol, theirmain jobs, main mate, like if
they had a resume, their theirresume the first thing would say
i increase glucose so i increaseblood sugar because the body
says i need it in my brain rightaway and i need it in my
skeletal muscle right away fightflight think it through like
attack that survive is what it'sdoing now acutely that's normal

(19:21):
that's totally normal but longterm now we're looking at
somebody with a blood sugarregulation issue maybe they're
flipping between low and highlevels so they're hangry and
then the body compensates.
And then eventually maybethey're pre-diabetic where
they're fully diabetic.
It's contributing to thatdiabetes picture.
So does that mean...

(19:42):
Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
You go.
Just with that diabetes picturebecause that's interesting.
Is that independent of diet?
Could you contribute to theonset of diabetes, have the best
diet, but be chronicallystressed to affect your cortisol
levels and therefore how you'remetabolizing sugar?
Is that something that...
Yes.
Yes?
Wow.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (20:02):
So I was I was literally just, this is so good.
I was literally just talkingwith a very fit, um,
bodybuilder.
He competes in bodybuilding andhis diet is pristine.
Obviously he has a wholebodybuilding plan.
And he said, my blood sugarsevery day are in according to us
standards, either pre-diabetesor, or like I hover in that

(20:23):
range.
And I said, how's your stress?
What's going on?
He said, Oh, I own my owncompany.
It's a 10 out of 10 all thetime.
I have a lot going on.
I know it's stress.
I wake up in the morning,immediately feel stressed out.
I take my blood sugar.
I do the finger poke.
It's high and it's high throughthe day.
And I'm like, okay.

(20:43):
And he has a great diet and heexercises regularly.
But

SPEAKER_00 (20:47):
that's the cortisol releasing sugar from muscles.
It

SPEAKER_02 (20:51):
triggers the liver, gluconeogenesis.
Is that correct?
So you're taking your energystores.
Glycogenolysis andgluconeogenesis.
So you're taking that and you'remaking, even if you had a low
carbohydrate diet, you wouldthen still take from your energy
stores and your liver can thenbe making it so I actually see
this as well Carrie and some ofmy patients I get them to wear a

(21:12):
continuous glucose monitor andwe can then determine is it food
related is it stress relatedbecause it can be really helpful
for them to go oh wow this ishow my stress is actually
affecting me so that's

SPEAKER_04 (21:23):
for a period of time like

SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
maybe two

SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
weeks but you can determine whether their blood
sugar issues are stress relatedor food related correct that's
amazing can I just pause andsay,

SPEAKER_03 (21:34):
let me give you a great example.
I, and I tell this story all thetime.
I personally had a continuousglucose monitor on and I'd
gotten a text message.
I was on my way out the door toget in my car, run errands.
And I'd gotten a text messagethat made me very bad.
So I happened to swipe my, um,or at the time we swiped now
it's just Bluetooth connects,but I swiped my phone on my

(21:55):
continuous glucose monitor and Iwas in normal, very normal
range.
Got the text message.
I'm pissed.
I get in the car.
I have the conversation in myhead out loud the whole time.
The whole time I'm driving towhere I need to go, I am
formulating my response to thetext, and it's very angry and
full of four-letter words.
When I got to where I was going,I

SPEAKER_04 (22:17):
checked my blood

SPEAKER_03 (22:17):
sugar again, and it had jumped up like 30 points,
which is a huge deal.
Because my brain was like,tiger, clearly a tiger.
She's yelling.
She's swearing.
There's got to be somethingthat's going to threaten her
survival.
And it was just a text message.
And it was the biggest wake-upcall to me on handling stress

(22:39):
and emotion and what it wasdoing to my blood

SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
sugar.
So how did you– well, sorry, didyou want to say

SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
something?
I think when I saw you just lastmonth, were you in Vegas?
You were wearing a blood glucosemonitor.
I was.
Yeah, I saw that.
So, yeah, very recently I sawyou wearing yours, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
So having recognized that, that your blood sugar
levels were being affected byyour stress, how did you choose–
to manage that?
What strategies did you take toactually manage that?
I do

SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
the best I can.
I

SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
still sometimes go

SPEAKER_03 (23:11):
off.

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Well, have you managed that to the point where
you can improve that response?

SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
Yes.
Yeah.
Now that I know it's aware, I'mvery careful.
I'm much more careful now,especially about my stress
response.
It's emotionally triggered forme, for a lot of people,
obviously.
And what emotions are coming up?
What do I feel about this?
Taking a breath.
Just, you know, stepping backfor a second.
Do I really need to react likethis?
Why am I so heated all of asudden?

(23:39):
And how does that affect?

SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
So being present in the moment and being aware of
yourself, bringing yourself backto center.
Yeah, it was a huge wake-up callfor me.
I

SPEAKER_03 (23:47):
didn't realize it would jump 30 points.
I mean, I was ready to fightanyone apparently, according to
my blood sugar.

SPEAKER_04 (23:54):
Yeah.
I love this model.
Carrie, I also do a lot of likeholistic life coaching and help
people understand things.
So that's why I'm passionateabout learning it.
too but I love the model of atthe base level of understanding
which is our victim level wethink everything's happening to
us like that text messagehappened to me that person said
that I was I'm in this financialsituation it's because they

(24:15):
didn't pay me this you know it'shappening to me and at that
level I'm down in thoseresponses I'm in a negative
place I'm telling a story tomyself a story about myself as
well that I'm not capable of whydoes it always happen to me I'm
spiraling around in all sorts ofhormones that you could touch on
perhaps but But as soon as I,like you said, with that

(24:35):
situation, it was a wake-upcall.
For me, I actually had to startto realize, okay, this is not
happening.
At one level, it's happening tome.
But at the next level up, it'shappening for me because it's
showing me my blind spots,things that I didn't understand.
You know, as Denise said, I'm anathlete.
I've been able to do this.
I could win that.
I could conquer this.
And all of a sudden, I'm likeshivering in the corner
wondering about how I'm going tohandle the situation because

(24:57):
there's a few zeros in this bankbalance that are missing,
whatever it is.
But all of a sudden, I had torecognize that this is happening
for me and work through it froma place of, okay, there's a gift
in here somewhere.
There's some sort of perfectionin this because I'm learning
about something that life hasn'ttaught me yet.
And so as soon as I embraced itthat way, and you could probably

(25:18):
tell me, I imagine I wasproducing different hormones and
different chemicals when I sawit as something that I could
rise to or I could actually lookat.
And to go a long story short isI got through that scenario and
created a whole better life outof it and I rose to it but even
just yesterday I'm in the middleof moving house so I move when I

(25:40):
get home from this Melbournetrip I move you know the very
next morning 7 a.m.
and my garage I'm an old surferand it fits either eight cars in
it this old garage or three carsand 150 surfboards and that's
basically how I had itconfigured right so and paddle
equipment and everything and mywife kept saying to me oh my god
Trevor we've been here for sevenyears how are you going to move

(26:00):
all that stuff I'm like it'sokay it's okay I'm right that's
not there's not as much anywayI've done all this work and I'm
looking and I've packed thiswhole trail I've got it ready to
go and I'm looking around thegarage and I'm going please can
I see some corner of the garagewhere I can see progress where I
can actually see that I haven'tgot as much to do as I needed to
do three days ago when I've beenworking for three days can I see

(26:23):
a gap that's opened up in thisthing and I had to train myself
to go now look for the gap andsee it because I now understand
that you have to see theprogress you have to actually
see fire up and say I'm makingprogress here and then we
produce a different set ofhormones so can you perhaps run
us through because I think thisis so important for so many
people it's such a blind spotfor so many people because their

(26:45):
personal thoughts aboutthemselves are based on all
these things that they're goingthrough but it's actually not a
problem with you it's justyou're not understanding where
you are what you need to do andhow you rise to it can you
explain to me what I wentthrough in perhaps in that
financial thing or even thegarage what what was the
difference when I recognizedthat was happening for me.
Why did that make a change in myworld?
Why is it a better world sinceI've seen it that way?

(27:07):
Hormonally.

SPEAKER_03 (27:09):
Well, I was going to say a lot of it obviously is
emotional, right?
So the emotional, your emotionaltrigger has completely changed.
You went from a fear-basedemotional trigger to a more
patient, compassionate,love-based emotional trigger.
Like acceptance.
I was in acceptance.
In the emotions, acceptance.
So when you have the fear-based,you're going to go into the
fear-based protective hormones,I should say.

(27:30):
So we've been talking aboutadrenaline.
We've been talking aboutcortisol.
But when you have a more lovedbase where you're like, look at
me, I'm so proud, how much I'vedone in the garage, how much
I've done in this movie, theseare different hormones.
So these could be hormones suchas oxytocin, which is our
connection, love, our, what's agood, like cuddle hormone, I

(27:52):
guess a lot of people, bondinghormone.
We can have GABA.
GABA's our calming hormone.
It's the neurotransmitter in ourbrain that's very calming.
Serotonin, which is more orbalancing as opposed to maybe
something excitatory likeglutamate or dopamine.
Now those may play a role aswell, but if you're leaning into
more of that like I'm so proud,look how far I've come, this is

(28:15):
great, go me, then we'reprobably leaning into those
calming sort of cuddle love typehormones.
And if we were to test in themoment, I would imagine your
adrenaline and your cortisol wasprobably not reacting it wasn't
doing the thing and so remembertoo we can get stuck in a cycle

(28:36):
if your adrenaline kicks off andyour heart rate goes up and you
feel those emotions you can getstuck in that like it can
perpetuate itself

SPEAKER_04 (28:45):
chronic

SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
whereas if you're the other way i'm feeling good
i'm really happy i'm proud ofmyself go me i'm not a victim
i'm taking accountability chipyou know one step at a time that
can perpetuate itself as well

SPEAKER_04 (28:58):
i'll share something really curious and that is that
i love what you just saidbecause I sat there and I looked
for I looked for the progressand I went come on you need to
see the progress where is it andthere's this one shelf I'd
removed and packed up and I wentlook at that I went see what you
see your progress don't see whatyou've still got to do and I
actually could feel myselfchanging and you know it's
really funny within five and Isat in the garage I pulled a

(29:21):
chair in the middle and satthere and looked and went calm
down you got this you know andthen five minutes later the
first thing I did was I rang mywife straight away and I said I
love you I'm so excited aboutour move so the very you just
said it exactly then it shiftedeverything and i went into the
cuddly love state straight awayi just went i love you i love

(29:42):
you i'm so excited about a moveall of a sudden i could see the
horizon and it felt beautifulbefore that it was like ah the
move's gonna kill me you knowit's like there's such a polar
opposites those two experiencesand then she got the benefit
from that went oh my that butwith the next morning she was
saying i can feel us being thereyou know it's i'm so excited
again we're half like a half aday before that she's saying i'm
so excited I don't even know ifI want to move.

(30:03):
Our well-being and our lifeforce and our behaviors and our
relationships are so affected byall these things.

SPEAKER_03 (30:11):
I mean, it's affected by everything, right?
It's affected by men'stestosterone levels.
If your testosterone was low, itwould be harder for you to get
into that positive space, thatpositive vibe, that look for the
positive.
When a woman is getting close toher menstrual cycle and her
hormones are generally low,estradiol and progesterone are
generally low, she's gettingjust like him, she's she's

(30:32):
getting less stimulation up inthe brain, so she's gonna lean
more towards the negative.
She's not feeling ascompassionate, she's not feeling
as love-based, and a lot ofwomen report that as they get
close to their cycle, but thatperpetuates the stress cycle as
well.

SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
People feel more stress.
Well, how does stress fit intothose hormones?
So when we experience thatchronic stress, we spoke about
the adrenaline and the cortisol,but what about the other
hormones that you justmentioned?

SPEAKER_03 (30:57):
Yeah, so chronic stress can absolutely, we'll
start with women, that's a bigone.
So when we think of the femalesystem, whether she wants to or
not, the female system does sortof revolve around reproduction.
She may not want to reproduce,but that system is like, hey,
every single month, if you aregetting your cycle, I got you.
If you want to get pregnant, wecan do it this month.

(31:18):
But what can happen when she haschronic stress or even a big
acute stress is that the brainsays, ooh, that's scary.
I don't like that.
That's stressful.
And it's been going on a while.
This is not the most ideal timeto reproduce.
So I'm going to alter yourhormones, whether I alter
ovulation or I alter theproduction of certain hormones

(31:39):
like progesterone, because thisis not the month.
Even if she doesn't want to getpregnant, the chronic stress can
affect those hormones.
So now we have an alteredprogesterone or altered estrogen
or both, and they also play arole in all the systems of the
body.
So now she has low progesterone.

(32:00):
So now she can't sleep.
She can't feel calm.
When she does get her period,it's heavy.
She has terrible PMS.
Her cramps are bad.
And so we get this cascade ofeffect.
The same can happen for men.
Epinephrine or adrenaline canimpact the way the testicles
make testosterone.
So in chronic stress, and nowhe's not sleeping, and men make

(32:21):
testosterone generally throughthe night, which is why they get
the big spike in the morning,it's going to impact his
testosterone production.
And when men have impactedtestosterone it impacts
everything their mood theirmuscle mass their motivation
their heart their brain theirbones everything and so you can
see it's been relegated to quoteit's just stress it's just

(32:45):
stress there's nothing wrongwith you you're fine it's no big
deal i don't see what theproblem is but what we're
looking at it's the downstreamlet's say health span we're
going for i can see your futureand it's not great we have to
fix We have to stop this train,turn it around.

SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
Yeah, and I think the lesson in all of this, and
we'll obviously get to more ofthe strategies and what we can
do, but it is just being awareof what is triggering us, like
your text message, like in thegarage, and again, another
speaking event, becauseobviously I love the speaking,
but it does cause me a lot ofstress.
But last year, I may havementioned this on another
podcast, I was in London at theend of last year and I was doing

(33:27):
a full day workshop, speakingfor an entire day, which is a
lot more stress than doing a onehour gig and I really didn't
sleep on the plane on the wayover and then I didn't sleep
that night before and I thoughtI actually had my first hot
flash haven't had another onelike that but I woke up in the
night and my pyjamas weresoaking wet I was like holy shit
is this menopause and tomorrowI've got to do a full day

(33:48):
workshop I haven't slept in themorning I was in a tizz I was
just and I almost went into adeep dark spiraling out of
control going I haven't slepthow am I going to do this and
then I just had to stop and goDenise You asked for this.
You wanted to do this workshop.
I've been doing this stuff for20 years.
It's like even if I haven'tslept, I am here to share a

(34:10):
message.
And I just talked myself out ofit, did a couple of yoga poses,
had a breath.
And in the morning, the first,you know, I did stumble a few
words.
I was a bit tired.
But I was there in a place oflove, probably the oxytocin.
I connected with everyone.
It was the best workshop.
It went so well.
I haven't had another hot flash,by the way.

(34:31):
everyone so don't know don'tknow what that was about

SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
you might be lucky

SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
I don't know what that I don't know maybe Carrie
you can tell me can you have oneand then not have another one
for six months because I haven'thad one since but it was just
such a weird night and honestlyI just I know I actually felt
the change just in that 30seconds of breaking the thoughts
as I said a couple of downwarddogs I don't even do that much
yoga but I was like what can Ido right now did a couple of

(34:57):
yoga poses had a breath and waslike I can do this you know It's
okay.
But I really almost got myselfinto a very anxious place.

SPEAKER_03 (35:08):
And Denise, you're well-trained.
So imagine somebody listening tothis who's not well-trained.
I mean, they're identifying,raising their hand, nodding
along going, oh my gosh, that'scompletely me.
I didn't realize what was goingon or what to do with it.
Our society doesn't, weacknowledge we have a any weight

(35:33):
to it.
It's like, of course you'restressed.
Everyone's stressed.
It's almost blown off or a badgeof honor.
Well, of course you're stressed.
The last four years have beenridiculous.
Of course you're stressed.
You're a mom of two kids underthe age of four.
Of course you're stressed.
You own your own company.
It's like, whoa, yes.
And we have to look at all the,we have to look at the
downstream.

(35:53):
We have to really address this.
We have to assess the wholeperson versus just blow it off
or assume just because it'scommon doesn't mean it's normal

SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
now Carrie you mentioned just in your previous
response that you can tell oryou can get a picture of
someone's longevity based onthese hormones that you're
looking at in an individual nowthis program is very much about
longevity and health span so Isuppose my question is are there

(36:25):
hormones or what does anendocrine system look like that
is geared towards longevity Isthere a picture that you can see
that's very different to thethree stressed out individuals
that we've been

SPEAKER_02 (36:38):
describing?
Dan hasn't downloaded his stressyet.

SPEAKER_00 (36:43):
If you listen to a few other podcasts, you'll get
to hear the story.
Well, you mentioned sleep.
Sleep is my issue, but Ithought, look, you touched on
sleep.
We could be here all day if wediscuss sleep.
So let's talk about the goodpicture.
How do we live a long time?
What does that hormone picturelook like?

SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Resilience.
Trevor said a great word.
Resilience is probably one of mymost favorite when it comes to
stress.
And we talk Talk about stress.
We'll start there.
When we're looking at thatsystem, we call it the circadian
rhythm.
You've probably discussed it onother episodes, right?
So cortisol is like the sun.
It goes up in the morning whenyou wake up and it goes down at
night.
It should.

(37:16):
That's the pattern it shouldfollow.
We call it a circadian rhythm ordiurnal pattern.
Melatonin is the opposite.
It's like the moon.
Melatonin comes up in the nightand goes down in the morning.
This is our circadian rhythmthat we do every 24 hours.
That's ideal when it comes tocortisol.
If you are dysregulated, have alot of stress, if you wake up

(37:37):
super tired but feel wired atnight, you get a second wind,
can't sleep, or you're waking at3 a.m.
with your mind going, stressedout, then I know right away you
have a dysregulated circadianrhythm, and that's what's going
to impact lifespan andhealthspan.
If you're doing the normalup-down of cortisol, you're
feeling pretty resilient, you'refeeling pretty good, you get

(38:00):
minor stresses or major stress,but feel like you can bounce
back, that's what I look forwhen it comes to healthspan.
Because somebody may have areally long lifespan.
For example, my family tends tolive a long time.
We tend to live into the 90s,the 90 years old.
And I want my healthspan tomatch that.

(38:20):
I don't want to have a long lifethat's not quality.
So I even personally evaluatethis.
Now, when it comes to hormone,the other hormones and the
endocrines system.
If she's cycling, I'm looking tosee, are your cycles regular?
Do you have PMS?
What are your periods like?
Do you know if you ovulate?

(38:41):
If you've been pregnant, howhard was it to get pregnant?
Are you looking to get pregnant?
And if she's beyond that, thenI'm like, well, how is your
menopause?
How is your perimenopause?
What's happening for you?
And for men, I'm asking abouttestosterone production.
How is your energy, yourmotivation, your mood, your
morning erections, Do you haveerectile dysfunction?

(39:03):
Sexual health in both people.
So these are the kind of thingsthat I'm asking.
It's the down and dirtyquestions because that's really
ultimately what's going to tellme about your health span
versus, unfortunately, inconventional medicine, they have
about six minutes with eachpatient.
That's not enough time to getinto this down and dirty.
It's great for the acute, but weneed more than that in our

(39:26):
society to really evaluate thisfor the health span.
So that big picture That's whatI'm looking for when I'm
evaluating both lab work andsymptoms for those hormones.

SPEAKER_04 (39:38):
You've used this word downstream and I love this
word.
I've used it a lot in the lastsix months.
It's really, oh, what'sdownstream from what?
And it would appear that in someexamples that our emotional
state is downstream from thehormones that are flooding
through us.
So my emotional state of sayingto my wife, I love you and I

(39:58):
can't wait to go to the propertywith you.
was after this shift in hormonesand but was also downstream from
a shift in a mental attitudeabout the situation so rather
than being in resistance i wasin acceptance and i was
embracing the situation and iwas looking for the positives so
there was this mental changewhich created a hormonal change
which created emotional changebut i imagine then from that

(40:20):
emotional change when i sharethat with her that and she
reciprocates me too then theni've got another hormonal change
so is it just cycling backwardsand forwards is it like a
pendulum is Is there adownstream?
You know, does one affect theother?
Are they all, is it floatingfrom one rock to the other all
the way down the stream?
Like where does this fit in oris it everything's connected?

SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
Everything's connected, right?
The hip bone is connected to thethigh bone.
We can't silo out any section ofthe body.
And everything you said is true.
Your emotions can affect thedownstream hormones and then
hormones can affect emotions.
So as an example, For example,let's pretend you were in a

(41:03):
great hormonal state.
Your blood sugar was great.
Your stress was great.
Everything was great.
But then something tragichappens.
Somebody dies or you suddenlylose your job.
Something you weren't expecting.
That's an emotional state.
Then it becomes chronic, candownstream affect your hormones.
Now, on the flip side, if yourhormones have been affected from
other reasons, there are amillion other reasons that our

(41:25):
hormones can get messed up, thenthe hormones will then have an
impact on your emotional state.
emotional state as well so youcan't which comes first the
chicken or the egg well itdepends it depends they both it
flows both ways

SPEAKER_04 (41:41):
that's powerful to understand that yeah

SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
and can I ask you you said there's obviously we
don't have time for a millionthere's a million things that
can affect your hormones becausewe've talked a lot about
obviously the emotional stuffthings that affected you and me
but hormonally what are thosethings that you said could
affect you know hormonally whichthen sort of obviously results
in you know, the lowerresilience.

SPEAKER_03 (42:04):
So everything from, we talked about the stress, of
course, but everything from, solike think stress, think
environmental.
So environmental toxicants,endocrine disrupting chemicals.
Think of things from likeviruses and bacteria.
If you've been sick, chronicillness, you know, there's like
long COVID, those types ofthings can impact.
If you haven't been sleeping forwhatever reason, whether you

(42:25):
can't sleep and you can't figureout why, or it's induced, you
stay up late, you're addicted tothe show.
So So you're a gamer.
You're staying up till 2, 3 inthe morning playing video games.
That's going to impact how yourhormones are produced.
What you eat can absolutelyimpact what your hormones are
doing.
Even things like allergies,histamine can impact what your

(42:47):
hormones are doing.
So you take a piece of that or abunch of those and put it in the
bucket, the endocrine hormonebucket, and then it can impact
your hormones.

SPEAKER_00 (43:00):
You mentioned endocrine disruption.
is what are they?

SPEAKER_03 (43:01):
Think of, so we're talking about the endocrine
system.
So the endocrine disruptors arechemicals that act like hormones
and disrupt your hormone system.
So think of your plastics, yourparabens, your phthalates,
fragrance, synthetic fragrance.
You know, people like to burncandles or have plug-ins,

(43:24):
certain incense, perfumes,colognes, that synthetic
fragrance can really play anumber on your endocrine system.
in the body, on the skin.
And we see it everywhere.
We see it in detergent.
We see it in skincare.
We see it in candles.
And as I said, cologne, perfume.
So it can be topical.
It can be something that youbreathe in, that you wash with.

(43:48):
They're everywhere, aren't they?
And they're starting to do moreresearch on this.

SPEAKER_00 (43:52):
Pesticides as well.
So the pesticides on our food.
Aluminium.

SPEAKER_04 (43:56):
Pesticides.
Aluminium that's in theatmosphere.
And also, what was the other oneI bought?
like fluoride is obviously onethat's been argued about a lot.
Yeah, with thyroid hormones.
It's really effective, thyroidand pineal gland, et cetera.
And Wi-Fi has got some reallyinteresting studies about it and
the frequencies and the 5Gfrequency that's being
introduced has got some very,very smart scientific people

(44:18):
going, this is what it does.
So we're surrounded by what wethink are modern conveniences
that ultimately to our body theyare becoming and many are being
seen now as stresses, right?
They're actually creatingdisruptions to the endocrine
system, which is a veryimportant part of our
regulation.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
Even think of like smoke, your air quality, your
water quality.
Absolutely.
I mean, where I live, we have alot of forest fires.
Unfortunately, we're coming upon forest fire season and, you
know, it's not something I cancontrol, but will absolutely
impact my immune system, myrespiratory system, and that
will downstream affect myhormone system.
I mean, it's global.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
So did you want to say something?

SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
I don't know if we have time because I guess we
want to get to the like WACA canwe do to balance our blood
sugars?
And I want to ask you somethingtotally different about, you
know, increasing dopamine forbrains that bounce all over the
place for focus and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
That's my ADD brain.

SPEAKER_02 (45:11):
Yeah.
So many questions, Carrie, and Ijust know you're a wealth of
knowledge.
But very quickly, you mentionedabout histamine.
I have so many clients andpatients with allergies.
You know, it's a common thing.
People come to me and go, oh, Itake an antihistamine every day.
It's preventative.
My doctor told me to.
Can you make a comment aboutthat and just explaining a

(45:32):
little bit further about thatrelationship between histamine
and hormones and for thelisteners when we say histamine
think of allergies and hay feverthis is a histamine response or
sometimes it's a food responserashes skin things you know hay
fever that kind of thing is ahistamine response

SPEAKER_03 (45:48):
and it absolutely goes hand in hand i'd say the
best example uh is with women soum estrogen and histamine kind
of go back and forth so if youwere in a high histamine state a
lot of allergies it can impactestrogen and so i often and You
probably do too, Denise.
I have a lot of women that say,gosh, an allergy season, my PMS
is terrible.
My periods suck.

(46:08):
They don't put the correlationtogether, but it's like, hey,
Denise, my allergies are bad.
And then in a separate sentence,they're like, my periods are a
lot worse.
My PMS is bad right now.
And it's like, oh, histamineplays a role there.
Estrogen can slow down thebreakdown of histamine and
histamine can cause problemswith estrogen.
Histamine can also worsencramps.

(46:28):
So think of your endometriosiswho, while hist is not the
cause, can worsen.
It can worsen cramps with themenstrual cycle.
So they're talking about theirallergies and you ask them about
their menstrual cramps andthey're like, yeah, they're
actually really bad right now.
Well, they can go hand in handand cause problems.

SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
So that histamine, which may be caused by their
allergies, could contribute totheir menstrual cramps.
Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03 (46:52):
Remember, nothing's in a silo.
So even though histamine isassociated with, of course,
allergies and all theantihistamine medications or the
commercials on TV, we don't talkabout the crossover that happens
in all these molecules in ourbody and how they
cross-interact.
I mean, our body is like aspider web.
If you touch one end, the wholething vibrates.

(47:15):
If you throw a pebble into apuddle of water and the rings go
out, out, out, it's the same inthe body.
If you mess with histamine or ifyou get too high of histamine,
that molecule is gonna send outvibrations through the body.
It's gonna impact a lot ofthings.

SPEAKER_04 (47:30):
Yeah, sure.
I want to, Kerry, I want tosummarize while I've got you
here.
You're amazing, by the way.
You're such a breath of freshair.
And thank you on behalf of allhumans for what you're doing.
All

SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
humans, by the way.
All humans.
As representative of planetEarth.
No, but I

SPEAKER_04 (47:48):
can just feel, I'm a feeler.
And I feel how deeply peoplewill appreciate this
conversation because it's like,oh, thank you for pointing to
something that I thought I wasbad or wrong because I couldn't
get right.
But it's actually just somethingI need to understand.
So thanks for being passionate.
about it right from the startbecause you are clearly infused
with spirit and purpose andpassion so firstly that's that
i've loved this but um i justwant to summarize my

(48:10):
understanding and correct me umwhere i'm wrong but also i want
to put a question on the end ofit so basically we have the
sympathetic nervous system whenwe're in that we have a vagus
nerve which is activates us togo into sympathetic or
parasympathetic when we're insympathetic we we're
predominated in the the amygdalaportion of the brain which is so
we're in fight or flight so goodbad right wrong win lose success

(48:33):
failure good enough not goodenough acceptable unacceptable
all these things that createchronic emotional states we're
producing cortisol andadrenaline to try and get out of
that but it can be chronic andwe can get trapped in it we end
up with a vague vagus nerve andwe can't switch out of it we get
stuck in it when we're in thatstate what i've learned and
understood and this is what i'dlove clarity on if you feel the

(48:54):
same our breath can get caughtup you know we're in this
survival breath mode On theother side, when we're in
parasympathetic, in acceptanceof the situation, we're open to
what's going on, we're in theprefrontal cortex, we can see
the horizon, we can perhaps seethe progress, we can be
producing oxytocin, serotonin,dopamine from the reward

(49:18):
perspective.
We're not in fight or flight.
We're now in rest and recovery,rest and repair, rest and
restore, et cetera.
And when we drop into that, ourbreathing naturally drops
into...
I'm here.
I'm present.
There's no fight.
I don't have to tense up.
I don't have to hold thistension inside him.
I'm not about to get attackedwith a sword or fight a tiger.

(49:40):
So I've kind of summarized whatI understand.
But the reason I've done that isone, for any clarification.
And number two, what I'mbeginning to find that is really
powerful, people, is that youcan reverse all that by
understanding the role thatbreath can be downstream or
upstream.
So you can actually stop and go,all right, stop.
Stop thinking.

(50:00):
concentrate on my breathingbreathe into my belly my chest
my head breath three parts Ilove Andrew Huberman's work
where he says the two-partbreath because you've got the
two-part breath it's a bit likeafter we've had the cry at the
end of it all but that tells usif we've got time to breathe
twice or even three times in ittells our whole system that
we're not in danger and then webreathe out slower than we

(50:23):
breathe in that's what I've beenlearning and what I've been
understanding it's been hugelyhelpful for me can you correct
me on any of that from yourunderstanding or tell me what
you understand about breath nowand how that can be a powerful
tool for people going forward.

SPEAKER_03 (50:39):
I would even add when it comes to breath, because
a lot of people obviously don'trealize that they are breathing
that way because our breath isnot something we generally think
about.
I

SPEAKER_02 (50:48):
just heard you do a really big breath.
Sorry.
I just heard

SPEAKER_01 (50:52):
Dan.
You

SPEAKER_03 (50:59):
know, how many times Has somebody made a comment
about, are you taking shallowbreaths?
Like take a big breath, do a bigsigh.
And when you do it, you're like,oh gosh, you're right.
I was doing this shallowbreathing, but it goes for other
body postures.
Many a times when I lecture, Iwill talk about the fact that so
many in the audience have theirshoulders up at their ears.

(51:21):
And I'll say, sit up straightand drop your shoulders.
Even just the act of puttingyour shoulders up and dropping,
just, and I've had a lot ofpeople say to me, I didn't
realize how tight I was holdingmy body.
I didn't realize I was clenchingeverything.
You know, like I walk around orI try to go to sleep and I'm
clenching, like unclench.

(51:42):
So we're holding our physical,

SPEAKER_04 (51:44):
emotional, mental states to ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 (51:47):
Yes.
Yes.
And when you bring thatawareness, it's almost immediate
where people go, oh my gosh, Ididn't realize I was doing that.
I feel so much different becauseyou're now, if you're clenched
and you're up here, I mean, thisis like fighter's position right
to have your shoulders up yourhands up and clenched so the
body

SPEAKER_00 (52:04):
says and you're protecting your neck I mean if
you're talking

SPEAKER_03 (52:06):
about

SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
being attacked by a tiger the first thing you do is
raise your shoulders protectyour neck and that's what it's
all about the old sword

SPEAKER_04 (52:13):
thing as well the hips down by that you know
protect the ribs and the heartand all this sort of stuff and
then you know

SPEAKER_03 (52:20):
so even just paying attention to those little things
of how you're sitting your bodyposture definitely your breath
are you your hands what are yourhands doing can give You
mentioned the amygdala.
The amygdala in our brain is oneof our fear-based centers, and
it's very quick to react.
This is where resilience comesin a lot, because when the

(52:41):
amygdala feels threatened, itimmediately runs to our
hypothalamus, a part of ourbrain that kicks off the stress
system.
And unfortunately, it doesn'thave checks and balances.
It doesn't go to the front partof our brain, which is the
executive function, to go,should I freak out?
Is this real?
What do you think?
Can I think this through alittle more?
Is this scary?

(53:03):
It just is like, I'm scared,react.
I'm taking over.
And our stress system kicks off.
Now, it's a good thing.
I always give the examplebecause there's some people
listening that if they cameacross a tiger and their
amygdala didn't react, theywould say, I love cats.
Cats love me.
Come here, kitty.
Come here, kitty.
Meanwhile, they're dead.

(53:24):
So we need the amygdala to knocksome common sense into us also
to say, no, that's a tiger.
We need to be afraid.
However, However, what we don'twant is what we call the
neuroplasticity of running tofear base.
So when you see on a sidewalk ora grassy area where people have
walked so much that they'vecreated their own path, think of

(53:45):
that in your brain.
So if your brain is alwaysrunning the same path, that
groove is going to be deep.
And so we're trying to reel thatback, build some resilience,
remind yourself you're safe,unclench, get your breath going.
So we can go down differentpathways instead.
Don't pet the kitty.

SPEAKER_00 (54:05):
Okay, well, we think we've got a bit of a picture of
what a chronic stress personlooks like and the things that
they should be aware of.
But when someone like that comesto you, what are some of the
tests, the diagnostic tests andthe assessments that you would
use to assess an individual andwhere they are hormonally as
well as, I suppose, in terms oftheir stress levels,

(54:26):
understanding what you need todo to help address that?

SPEAKER_04 (54:28):
And what do you prescribe to them?

SPEAKER_00 (54:30):
What do you do?
Hello,

SPEAKER_02 (54:33):
Dr.
Carrie Jones, who is the testinghormone expert of the world.
I learned, I do all my hormonetesting from a test that you
taught me about and have beenfor the last 10 years.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (54:43):
Well, so when it comes to stress, when it comes
to cortisol, there's a fewdifferent ways you can test it.
One is you can do a blood testfor cortisol.
The problem with that test isit's what's known as a total
cortisol.
So it is how much is free andavailable plus how much of your
cortisol is bound up.
Hormones are like children.
They cannot be unattended at anytime.
So your body puts them onproteins that are like buses,

(55:08):
like strap them in with aseatbelt and drive them through
your body.
So when I look at totalcortisol, I'm like, how much is
free, which is a very tinyamount, and how much is on this
bus driving through your system?
That's not very helpful to mebecause I want to know the
difference.
I want to know how much is freeand available and affecting you,
and then how much do you have inthe reserves if you need it?
So the blood test is hardbecause we can't decipher that.

(55:31):
So then along came salivatesting.
Saliva testing is literally whatyou think.
You spit in a tube or suck on acotton swab and you could do it
through the day.
And that way I could tell youwhat your morning, your noon and
your night look like when itcame to what your available
cortisol was.
Then we advanced into urinetesting, which sounds crazy, but

(55:51):
what we advanced into was a spoturine testing.
So urinating on a strip of papera few times through the day
gives us the rhythm How muchcortisol are you making at these
different points?
But also gives us moreinformation.
It gives us information onwhat's called metabolized
cortisol.
So how much are you making andclearing?

(56:11):
So it answers questions for me.
How much are you deactivating?
That's called cortisone.
And how much do you have activeand available?
So it gives me a broader pictureto assess, can you not make it?
That's a problem.
Are you deactivating?
That's a following the rightpattern are you higher in the

(56:33):
morning lower at night that'swhat we want or are do you have
something that's flipped reversesomething that's you know kind
of going crazy

SPEAKER_00 (56:40):
who wouldn't be making

SPEAKER_03 (56:41):
three options i can decide what's best for you

SPEAKER_00 (56:45):
who wouldn't be making cortisol or why would
that be the case

SPEAKER_03 (56:49):
So what can happen?
Here's what's interesting.
If you go to the extreme,there's something called
Addison's disease.
Addison's disease is anautoimmune where you don't make
cortisol.
You really struggle and have togo on cortisol.
However, let's say it's notAddison's, but it's an
insufficiency of cortisolproduction.
So it's not zero, but it's notgreat.
One of the most common reasonsis high cortisol over time has a

(57:13):
feedback loop, meaning a lightswitch that turns off.
The brain goes, this is a lot ofcortisol.
Over a long period of time, thisis annoying.
I'm going to tell the adrenalglands to slow it down.
Stop making so much cortisol.
And it goes down, down, down,down, down, down.
And this is what we call adrenalinsufficiency.
They get this low level ofcortisol kind of eking out of

(57:35):
the body.
And they often feel it.
They're tired, depleted.

SPEAKER_02 (57:38):
We see this, right?
This is chronic fatigue.
I see this in fibromyalgia.
A lot of my autoimmune peoplecome to me and they are truly
burnt out.
Sometimes I see burnout andthey're in the acute, really
high cortisol but often thelong-term, they are flatlining.
You know, we're not seeing thatpattern of cortisol through the
day.

SPEAKER_04 (57:55):
And that'd be more regular with what's happening in
society now, right?
You're seeing that more often?

SPEAKER_02 (57:59):
Yeah, people are, it's chronic stress, right,
Carrie?
Like that chronic stress is thenhaving an actual effect on that
cortisol.
Can I ask a quick question justbecause, you know, talking about
all these different types ofcortisol, I don't want to get
too stuck in the weeds becauseit might lose the listeners, but
obviously there is the cortisol,cortisone, maybe you can tell us
a bit about that.
But I was recently told that ifsomeone has high free cortisol,

(58:24):
but low metabolized cortisol,that's a marker of a really
sluggish metabolism, whether itbe hypothyroid or just their
metabolism is really slow.
Is that true?
Because I just heard thisrecently.

SPEAKER_03 (58:49):
the liver to metabolize or break down
cortisol is free T3.
So the thyroid hormone T3, butthe free form of it.
So free T3.
So if I see somebody with lowmetabolized cortisol, then low
free T3 is the first thing Ithink of.
And what happens is they can'tmetabolize or break down their
cortisol.
So then it stays as freecortisol and just sort of comes

(59:11):
through the urine because itcan't get metabolized.
So metabolized is low, but thefree part is high.
And it's really unfortunate.
A lot of practitioners don't runa free T3.
So they may run a TSH, a thyroidstimulating hormone, and they'll
say, you're fine.
Your numbers are fine.
Not realizing it's the free T3that can be very low regardless

(59:34):
of what a TSH is.
So yes, that is, and that's agreat marker because again, what
comes first, the chicken or theegg?
Is it a thyroid problem?
Is it a cortisol problem?
It's a both problem most likelybecause free T3 is generally
created out in the peripheryincluding the liver.
There's probably a lot of thingsgoing on.
Stress is high.
Inflammation is high.

(59:54):
A lot of things are not great.
Sluggish liver.
It's one of its other survivalmodes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:00):
Probably some gut issues, maybe a high level of
toxins, so many things.
And I guess that's what we do.
We look at that whole person.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:06):
So just getting back to the picture then of this
person, what other tests mightyou consider?
We've looked at cortisol.
You've mentioned thyroid, freethyroid.
Are there any other hormonesthat would be at the top of your
list as a must look at and whattype of tests would you use for
that?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:23):
Well, first of all, for sure, some of the ones we
mentioned earlier.
So glucose, glucose and insulin,hemoglobin A1C, because that
plays such a big role inmetabolic health,
cardiometabolic, and of course,stress.
And then the testosterone, totaland free testosterone in both
men and women.
Estradiol, which is E2.
It's one of the active estrogen.

(01:00:45):
Progesterone.
And specifically in women, ifthey're still cycling, I want to
make sure I'm catching that at aparticular time in their cycle.
I want to make sure I'm testingthem after ovulation.
So around day, let's say 19 or20, 21 of their cycle, because I
want to see if they're producingprogesterone that tells me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:03):
So it sounds like what you're doing is what would
be a traditional blood workout,but you're looking at not just a
snapshot in time.
You want to see how hormones ebband flow over time and then look
at their specific forms, whetherthey be free or whether they be
metabolized, because that's Thatgives you a much more full
picture of actually what's goingon in that individual rather

(01:01:25):
than a brief snapshot in time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:28):
Because people are complicated, they have a lot
going on.
And I know sometimes gettingthis much either blood work or
saliva or urine testing can feeloverwhelming.
But I'm like, look, Iunderstand.
Usually the cases, they've hadsome blood work with their
practitioner.
They've been told everything wasnormal.
They don't know what to do.
I'm like, we need to...

(01:01:49):
to keep going.
We need to peel back the layersof the onion.
It is going to require someadditional testing or maybe they
just didn't do any testing atall.
Like we have to do something.
Let's evaluate what's going on.
And so, yes, so I am looking ata lot more complex of a system
of markers than maybe what'straditionally accepted because
people are complex and they'recoming to me and you all with

(01:02:12):
complex issues that aren't beingresolved elsewhere.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:16):
So what are the most classic and common things that
you're directing people towardsor that you're prescribing that
you're doing for them that arecoming up most often?
And what's the end result?
What do people feel when theystart doing these things that
you're directing them towards?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:32):
One of the big things, and actually, Trevor,
you mentioned this earlier, Ifeel like, and Denise as well,
one of the things when you lookat more functional, personalized
type medicine is we end up doinga lot of therapy, a lot of
counseling.
We do a lot of education andexplaining.
And sometimes for my patients,just Just understanding this
information so they couldrecognize it took a huge weight

(01:02:53):
off of them.
If we're talking about justbecause it's common, it's not
normal.
We're going to dig deep.
We're going to turn over somerocks.
Here are the ways that stresscan impact your body.
Here's what I need you torecognize.
No one's given anybody thesetips before.
These were not taught when wewere younger in school.
Our parents didn't talk aboutthem often, usually.
So just to get these key thingsare really helpful.

(01:03:14):
The next thing we talk a lotabout when it We'll never be in
a stress-free environment,unfortunately.
But how are we handling stress?
And what can we do with thestress presented to us?
The way we respond, ouremotions.
Do we imagine a lot of stress?
Do we need to work on that?
And then what are the key wayswe are making our body feel

(01:03:38):
safe?
So you mentioned the vagusnerve, Trevor.
So the vagus nerve ispredominantly a nerve that is
parasympathetic.
So the rest, the digest, theheal.
And according to some experts,there's various branches of the
vagus nerve that have to do withsafety.
Do you feel safe?
Do you feel safe in your bodyand your surrounding?

(01:03:58):
So it's a big area.
I tell people, do you have acommunity that you love and feel
safe in?
Whether it's a community of one,your significant other, or a
bigger community, your family atlarge, your friend group, your
work, your church, whatever itis.
Do you feel joy?
Healing happens at joy.
Do you find ways to have joy?

(01:04:18):
Do you remind your body daily,often, that you're safe, you're
happy, you're healthy?
Even in the little micromoments.
It may not be all day you feelsafe, happy, and joyful, but in
the micro moments, pointing thatout to remind your body.
And Denise, I love what you saidabout having to relearn that not

(01:04:40):
all stress is bad.
Some is for the good.
And again, immediately going tothe worst case scenario.
Oh my gosh, it's going to bringmy autoimmune back again, like
re-evaluating how we approachthose thoughts when it comes to
stress.
So as a baseline foundation, alot of it is mental emotional,
believe it or not.
Because most people, I don'tblame them.

(01:05:01):
They're like, well, what pillcan I take?
Carrie, what herb can I take?
Well, there

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:06):
are a lot of great herbs out there.
I do do a lot of that.
I do prescribe a lot of herbsand supplements and I think it
can be helpful.
But I think what you're saying,Carrie, is very true If these
foundations are not right, thosesupplements that we give,
they're really not going to givethe lasting effects.
They might take the edge off alittle, but really we need to

(01:05:29):
get the foundations and thenthose things can get us out of a
really sticky situation andactually bring us back to that
place of thriving and setting usup for that health span.
And I wouldn't mind just onthat, can you share with me, if
you are comfortable do so, whatis your rate obviously it's

(01:05:51):
going to be personaliseddepending on, I know that you,
as you disclosed when we were inthe US last month, going through
menopause, showing your Dutchresults, me too, like I think
it's starting for me, I'm 45,we're actually almost the exact,
you obviously said yourbirthday, you're the same age.
So what are you taking rightnow, you personally, and also

(01:06:11):
maybe some tips for some peoplethat maybe, you know, just
hormonally, you know, some ofthe top things that we can do
from that supplement nutrientperspective

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:20):
absolutely and i do stress support myself because
even though i'm working on thefoundations uh i'm human it
happens my sleep isn't alwaysgreat i don't always hydrate
like i'm supposed to i don't youknow blood sugar sometimes isn't
perfect and in but i work onthose and then just as you said
denise i add in the extra stuffso one if i had to be on a
deserted island and i could takeone supplement in the whole

(01:06:42):
world it would be magnesium nowit's funny as people are often
like you wouldn't take vitamin di'm like no i'm on a deserted
island like Maybe the sun.
I would get that.
I would take magnesium.
I feel that humans are largelydepleted in magnesium.
It's involved in over 600enzymatic reactions in the body,
and it plays a huge role.

(01:07:03):
You need magnesium to bind toATP, so cellular energy, to make
it active.
And a lot of people, whenthey're stressed out, they don't
feel that they have cellularenergy.
They feel like they'refunctioning by candlelight as
opposed to full spectrum light.
And they feel like their body isfailing them.
So magnesium helps activate ATP.

(01:07:26):
And then if we choose our form,so for example, I do a lot of
magnesium glycinate with a G.
Glycine as an amino acid iscalming.
And I want the calming and Iwant to be able to sleep.
So I do a lot of magnesiumglycinate as an example.
I also do take a combination ofwhat we call adaptogenic herbs.
So it has ashwagandha in it.

(01:07:48):
It has a luthrococcus in it andit has rhodiola as well as some
nutrients such as vitamin C.
Humans are one of few mammalswho don't make their own vitamin
C.
It's a terrible design flaw thatfor some reason biology got rid
of in us.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:05):
Yeah, there was a mutation.
Evolutionary, we've had amutation and now we are not
making it.
And actually, not only do we notmake it, there's also a snip in
one of the, you probably knowthis too, I know you're pretty
familiar with genetics, but oneof the vitamin C trans It's very
rare.
We had it in our profile.
Very rare to have this SNP.
Less than 10% of the populationmight have a heterozygote, not

(01:08:27):
many a homozygote as induplicate, but then we don't
transport vitamin C as well tothe tissues and absorb it.
So there's a very minorpercentage of the population
that actually needs even morevitamin C if you've got that
genetic SNP.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:41):
And if you're stressed and we know the vitamin
C, you need to make adrenaline.
Yeah, for our adrenal glands,

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:46):
exactly, yeah.
It's heavily...
concentrated in the adrenalgland.
The act of making hormones isstressful to the body, believe
it or not.
Well, I mean, you three knowthis, but the act of making
hormones in the adrenal glands,in the testicles, in the
ovaries, we create a lot of whatare called reactive oxygen
species, which are not good.
Reactive oxygen, meaning likenegatively reactive, they can
cause damage.

(01:09:07):
So the body's smart.
It puts antioxidants there tocombat it.
Vitamin C in the adrenal glandsis one of them, except we don't
make it inherently.
So we either have to eat it ortake it as a supplement.
So I I do add in extra vitaminC, especially when I am stressed
out to help make up for that.
I do.
So, and it's in this, it's inthis stress response,

(01:09:27):
adaptogenic support that I take.
I take sulforaphane, which arefrom broccoli sprouts.
So sulforaphane is a major phasetwo detoxifier.
My absolute favorite that Ilearned.
I was obsessed with it.
Then I met researcher ChristineHoughton when I was there in
Australia and fangirled over herand continue to take it.

(01:09:48):
sulforaphane or eat broccolisprouts if people prefer the
food route.
I do take a B-complex.
I find in my genetics and justhow I feel, an extra B-complex
seems to play a big role for me.
I am currently experimentingwith short-chain fatty acids,
butyrate, because of, again, 47perimenopause gut issues change

(01:10:15):
as our estrogen changes for theworse.
And butyrate being a big supportof the large intestine.
So I am playing with butyrateand prebiotics fiber.
I'm playing with both given myage.
And then like, what else do Itake consistently?
Well, the three of you probablycan relate to this.
I feel like in my pantry, I havemore supplements and tea than I

(01:10:38):
have food.
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:41):
have a whole cupboard and I actually have to
go through every now and againand go, that one's expired.
Why didn't I take it?
I've got to

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:46):
say my life is better.
from that though like the more Isee what I put in as actual all
it's food whether it's food orsupplement it's nutrition it's
something my body needs and themore I've understood it is like
you wouldn't put diesel in aFormula One car you know like
you are you calling yourself aFormula One no I'm calling you
that but basically yes yes I amI am I would like to operate

(01:11:10):
like a Formula One car thank youor a fighter jet but but I my
life has improved when I'veunderstood these things so I
know it's a supplement becausethe very word supplement is
supplementary you know but mylife has improved since i
understood magnesium and youknow my beautiful crazy
chiropractor buddy you knowwho's a healer he's incredible

(01:11:31):
magnesium mate magnesiummagnesium and it's just i
actually went through a longperiod of detoxification just
constant phlegm and he said spitit out get rid of it don't
swallow it back you know get ridof this is your body getting rid
of all these things you build upover years i'm 56 i can go and
ride big waves run around do allsorts of different things I can
squat down I can do the you knowchange my feet change my shoes

(01:11:53):
with you know on one foot allthat sort of stuff no problems
at all because of these thingsI've added in because it's just
I don't see myself as superhumanthat doesn't need anything I see
myself as needing assistance Iwant to say something to Carrie
I had an aha about 10 minutesago when you talked about safety
and I'm really grateful for itbecause it's staring me in the

(01:12:14):
face but obviously when we're infight or flight we don't feel
safe You know, it's so obvious.
It's like right there.
Well, you're in fight or flight.
So you must not feel safe toactually go into this reaction
of I've got to be safe.
So if I'm in chronic fight orflight, I'm chronically not
feeling safe.
And it just was like, you justslapped me in the face with it
before.
It's like, okay.

(01:12:35):
So in the situations in the last10 years, we're running big
organizations and doing things.
Oh, every time I felt stressful,it's like a deck of cards just
opened up for me.
I didn't feel safe.
It's almost like the most commonthing when I'm in a fight or
flight.
I didn't feel safe.
Either people didn't understandwhat I was trying to do or where
we were going.
I was being criticized,attacked.
Every time I've had thesereactions, the one common thing

(01:12:58):
is not feeling safe.
So what I got out of that was,oh, okay, my family, my friends,
the people I mix with, the way Italk, if I can cultivate safety,
if I can give it to others, if Ican appreciate it and embrace it
and not think I'm so strong Idon't need it, then I'm probably
going to bypass a lot of thethings that I've experienced in

(01:13:19):
a long period of time.
So that aha made me have thetingles.
I felt emotional.
And a lot of these podcasts, Ifind there's one thing in
particular that I came tounderstand.
And I think that was it.
You just made me realize thatwhen I feel safe, I'm a good,
strong, contributory human thatmakes a difference in the world.
I'm a good person to be around.

(01:13:39):
I love my life.
I exude joy, passion.
When I don't, I go into acascade of things that as I've
got better, I I've managed andworked out how to get back to
that place, but I've just got,oh, I have to actually just
check in.
Do I feel safe right now?
And what can I do to changethat?
And I think that might help alot of people to hear that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:59):
And not feeling safe can manifest as a lot of
different emotions.
I mean, it can manifest asanger.
And you might think like, no,it's not fear, it's anger.
But we know fear is often what'sunderneath anger.
It can manifest as overwhelm.
It can manifest as depression oranxiety.
Anger is considered a secondaryemotion.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:17):
Yeah.
Of

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:18):
emotions you don't know to recognize as ultimately,
do I feel safe?
Am I in a fear-based state?
And emotionally that'shappening, but think of your
actual cells themselves.
The last two supplements Ididn't get to mention, I either
take omega-3s, fish oil, or I'vebeen starting to take the newly

(01:14:40):
discovered fatty acid C15.
I just happened to interview Dr.
Stephanie Van Watson, who is ais the veterinarian
epidemiologist who found it.
She's the coolest person.
It's the coolest story.
It involves dolphins.
So I highly recommend looking itup.
That's

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:56):
me.
I'm one of them.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:57):
I know, right?
So she talked a lot aboutcellular fragility, like the
outside wall of our cell.
If it's fragile and weak andholy, then the inside of our
cell isn't going to do that welleither.
And that includes whether wemake energy with mitochondria,
whether you're making a hormoneand So emotionally feeling safe,

(01:15:20):
but then are our cells safe?
Are the outside walls of themactually safe and not allowing,
quote unquote, bad things to getto them and come through?
And

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:30):
you're saying C15 contributes to the cell wall
structure itself?

UNKNOWN (01:15:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:35):
The cell wall are made up of phospholipids.
And so by doing, adding in theomegas fish oil, now they have a
lot of other cool research onanger and depression and ADHD
and on top of membrane health,apparently this C15, this new
odd chain

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:59):
saturated fat.
Is that simply because thecarbon is, is this just C15
literally meaning there's acarbon on it?
at the chain at position 15 ofthat fatty acid.
Is that what this means?
We're literally talking aboutthe chemical structure?
Cool, yep.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:11):
I'm not even going to ask

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:12):
you to try and explain that in layman's terms.
We'll just trust you.
It has a very big one,something, something, something,
moic acid.
Yeah.
Don't ask

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:18):
me to say it.
I have got so many morequestions listed here, but we
really have come to the end.
Podcast number two.
And we will do a podcast numbertwo.
And he's

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:27):
trying to cut me off because I've got like 50,000
questions or not.
No, I won't.
I'd

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:30):
love to continue that.
I love that you got back tocellular safety with that C15
thing because of just havingdisappeared.
about safety and how it feels.
It's really powerful.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:38):
But look, traditionally, we all have our
last questions.
So we've got three morequestions for you.
Mine's about the supplements.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:47):
And I think you just did such a great job.
We're on some similar things.
When I travel, I always travelwith vitamin C.
A quick story about magnesium.
When I saw you in the US,sometimes when I fly, I get
blocked.
And I hadn't used my bowels in acouple of days.
And I don't often get bloated,but I was getting bloated.
I was really uncomfortable.
So at the conference, obviously,supplements went and asked for
some magnesium.
I was downing that magnesium,these gummies that were so yum.

(01:17:08):
Not only did I sleep better,felt better, bowels got going, I
kept taking that magnesium morethan what I usually would.
My cycle, so I've always had afairly normal cycle, but now I
guess this perimenopause,they're getting a bit shorter, a
bit heavier, a bit of pain.
I had no pain.
Women say this all the time.
Magnesium is so good, not justfor perimenopause and, you know,

(01:17:29):
calming, but also getting rid ofthe pain to the point where
sometimes I'm waking up at nightknowing I've got my period
because it actually hurt It'scramps.
It's like, man, this didn'thappen my whole life.
Now I'm in my mid-40s.
I mean, I should be grateful Ididn't get what some women
experience throughout theirlives.
But the magnesium, it's the onlything I can put it down to is I
was having a lot more magnesiumand I just had a very, yeah, no

(01:17:50):
pain.
A good time.
A good time with that cycle, ifyou can say it like that.
All right, so I'm stoppingtalking.
We love you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:57):
Bye.
My question, Carrie, I'll askthis one.
So beautiful, amazing, Carrie.
I love talking to you.
You really are incredible.
You're a force of nature, sothank you.
What you're working on, whatwe're all working on is this
collective wisdom comestogether.
If it's able to give you 10years of extended wellness in
your life, like 10 years in your80s, 90s, that you're just

(01:18:20):
living an amazing life with yourfull faculties available and all
your wisdom, et cetera, that yougain, why would you want that?
What would you do with it?
What would you do with that?
Why and what would you do withthat extra 10 years?
So

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:33):
what's interesting is that my My husband and I were
talking with essentially our taxguy and the guy who manages our
money.
He said, what age do you want toretire?
I thought, retire?
I love what I do.
Maybe slow down at some point?

(01:18:55):
Absolutely.
I have this feeling that I'mgoing to continue in the
wellness space and in witheducation and following the
research for a very long timeand just continuing to beat the
drum on getting this out to thepublic because, as I said right

(01:19:15):
from the get-go, it is nottaught to us at a young age.
And imagine how much bettersociety would be if we
understood some of these basicsIn our teens, in our 20s, even
in our 30s, it would just makeit so much easier for us.
So being able to have 10 moreyears of wellness, healthspan,
which is the plan already, Ithink I will probably keep doing

(01:19:37):
what I'm doing, quite honestly.
Except I'm going to do it by anocean.
I don't live by an ocean.
I mean, in the United States,I'm in the Pacific Northwest.
It rains a lot here.
And I'm like, nope, I need palmtrees.
We need a change.
We need oceans.
So I will find my ocean escape

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:54):
route.
And come live near Trev.
He's got palm trees and oceans.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:56):
Come to me in

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:57):
Noosa,

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:58):
yeah.
The follow-up part of that isthat impact that you're talking
about that you could haveeducating like that, why is that
important to you?
What is it in you?
Why is that so important to youto have that impact?

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:11):
Because when I see on social media specifically,
when I see the dread, theconfusion, the fear, the
depression, the anxiety in thecomments, in the DMs of people
mostly women because women iswho I generally educate to that
they're so frustrated andthey're so upset and they don't
feel well their body is failingthem their mind is failing them

(01:20:35):
nobody can help them and I'mlike there's a lot you can do I
know we talked a lot aboutstress and the downstream
effects and it seems sort ofoverwhelming and then there's
this like we 180 it like nowthat you understand what it can
do let's make all the changes tohelp it not do that and there's
a lot we can do and not have itfeel overwhelming or cost a lot

(01:20:57):
of money.
And so when I see day after dayin social media, the frustrated
women reporting and men too, Ijust don't generally work with
men.
That's what motivates me to keepdoing this because we needed,
like I said, we needed to learnthis a lot younger and we
didn't.
And it's a total disservice tosociety not to have this
information out there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:17):
Absolutely.
Thank

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:18):
you.
And there's so much more thatcan be discussed and we will be
sure to have you on again as aguest.
My last question is a lot muchmore direct and succinct.
For people that do want to learnmore from you, from people that
want to reach out to you, forwhatever reason, how can they
contact you?
How can they find you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:35):
Well, that's the easiest question.
Yeah, my website isdrcarriejones.com.
So D-R-C-A-R-R-I-E jones.com.
I'm also on social media,predominantly Instagram at
dr.carriejones.
And those are the two big placesI hang out all the time.
And I have a ton, mostly allfree information That's

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:55):
powerful.
To

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:56):
just hand to people, e-books and blog articles and
social media posts because it'simportant to me that it's out
there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:02):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much, Dr.
Carrie Jones.
That has been more thaninformative and we'll be looking
forward to having you on againas a guest.
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:11):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye.

UNKNOWN (01:22:14):
Bye.

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