July 10, 2025 • 22 mins
Mark Perry never imagined his journey would lead from military aviation to craft beer innovation, yet his Red Dragon Brewery has become a cornerstone of Fredericksburg's evolving cultural landscape. When Virginia changed its brewing laws in the early 2010s, Perry saw an opportunity not just for business, but to give something back to his hometown. Alongside partners with deep local connections, he transformed a warehouse into what would eventually become one of the nation's top-ranked craft breweries.
What distinguishes Red Dragon isn't just its location or atmosphere, but its pioneering approach to craft beer. Under brewer Cody Natale, the brewery gained recognition for revolutionary "juicy IPAs" that converted even the most hesitant beer drinkers, and heavily-fruited sour beers affectionately called "smoothies." These signature creations earned them an invitation to DC's prestigious Snallygaster Festival and, at one point, recognition as the 25th ranked brewery nationwide on Untappd's platform.
The brewery's story isn't without challenges. Through partner transitions, pandemic disruptions, and shifting market dynamics, Perry has remained committed to quality and community. Today, Red Dragon stands as more than just a place to drink exceptional beer – it's a community hub where cyclists gather weekly for "Bikes and Beers" events, where friends connect without distraction, and where the spirit of craft brewing thrives in an unpretentious atmosphere. Whether you're a craft beer aficionado or simply seeking authentic local experiences, discover what makes this Fredericksburg gem special by visiting their Google virtual tour, following them on social media, or better yet, stopping by to raise a glass with the community they've built.
Mark Perry
Red Dragon Brewery
info@reddragonbrewery.com
+1 540-371-8100
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Fredericksburg Neighbors Podcast
, the place where localbusinesses and neighbors come
together.
Here's your host, Dori Stewart.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to another episode of the
Fredericksburg Neighbors Podcast, where we share the stories of
our favorite local brands.
Today, I'm excited to introduceyou to Mark Perry of Red Dragon
Brewery.
Mark, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, thanks for taking the time to showcase our
place.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah well, I'm excited to dive in and learn
more about you and about yourbusiness.
So let's start there.
Share with us a little bitabout the brewery brewery.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Okay, so the brewery was an idea of three folks.
Back in the early 2010s, theVirginia changed their brewery
laws so that you could actuallyhave tap rooms and open up and
serve and not have to serve food.
That had been a restriction formany forever in the state of
Virginia of distilleries andwineries and things that you had
to serve food if you servedalcohol.
Well, you know, it all comesdown to money, so I think the
(01:11):
state of Virginia said, hey, wecan tax this, so we will allow
it.
So there was a guy named TomEvans and I went to high school
with his younger brother, BillEvans, and another guy named Dan
Baker and Tom was the homebrewer.
I went to his house here inFredericksburg and he's a
graduate of JM.
The rest of us went, graduatedfrom Spotsylvania High School at
(01:33):
the courthouse the old one andanyways, he had some great beers
and all of that.
And he said, yeah, I'm thinkingabout starting my hobby into a
business and this was about 2012.
And then we pushed it off alittle bit.
I was doing international workat the time.
My real job is I'm a pilot.
(01:53):
I came from the area, joinedthe military, ended up being a
pilot and I've done a little bitof something all over the world
.
So when the idea came up aboutthis too, I decided know, hey,
let's give something back to myhometown also.
So in 2015, we kind of came tosome terms, agreements, and
(02:15):
found a location and all ofthose kinds of things, and there
you go.
So we started putting ittogether back then and we opened
full business in 2016.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I love that so much and I love that you have deep
roots in the Fredericksburg area.
That's amazing?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes, absolutely.
And the other guys too, and DanBaker and Tom and Dan have
stepped away from the business.
Now, life, things change andall of that.
But Dan, he just lived up thestreet and he would.
You know, he was integral withtalking to neighbors Good and
bad ideas of opening an alcoholestablishment in nearly a
(02:56):
residential area, which therewas some pushback on it.
But we had to explain to peoplewhat a brewery was also because
most people equated it to justa bar and you know.
But all that stigma that comeswith that but, uh, dan and I was
out of the country.
so you know, Dan and Tom andBill also, they, they, you know
(03:17):
they beat the pavement and theytalked to everybody about.
Uh, hey, this is not whatyou're thinking.
I don't want to say upperclientele, but people who come
and drink craft beer aren't intoruckuses and causing
disturbances.
They just want to have a goodtime with their friends and
family and then just go home and90% of them, or more, are
(03:41):
responsible drinkers and stufflike that, so they're just there
for the one or two or just torelax.
It's worked out real well.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I love that and people who love good beer.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So tell me about the difference in Red Dragon Brewery
versus some of the other, Likewhat is your unique factor?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So what put us on the map?
We were, one thing, ifanybody's familiar with Untapped
, which is a menu service andalso social media for beer.
We were one of the firstadapters of that, which was also
a good gauge of how you'redoing in the industry.
But our brewer, cody Natale, hecame up from Charleston, south
(04:30):
Carolina.
He'd been here for a few years,he'd worked at a couple of
different breweries around town,but he came from a restaurant
and hospitality background.
Well, he was on the latesttrend.
So he started doing our reallybig juicy IPAs.
People who didn't like IPAs.
(04:52):
They were like, wow, I thoughtthey were all bitter and got you
right in the cheek where youjust don't like it, like that
super sour lemon.
So those, he started makingthose for us and then he also
brought in the we even just callthem smoothies now the sours or
(05:13):
gozes that are heavily fruited.
And those two things are whatreally put us on the map here in
Reddicksburg, because you knoweverybody can make just an
average beer.
But we did something that was atrendsetter, I would say,
nationally.
We were invited shortly afterthat to Snallygaster, which is
(05:33):
in Washington DC.
It's a big beer festival andit's by invitation only, and
this small little brewery herein Fredericksburg, Virginia,
even though we're close to DC,it doesn't mean that it was
obligatory to invite us.
We were invited to it and itwas a great showing and people
around the United States andeven the world got to see what
(05:56):
we do down here.
So those are the things thatreally set us apart.
And then to talk a little bitmore about that, that kind of
fell apart during COVID withbeing able to produce some of
those things because of the highcost of ingredients at that
time and people couldn't go outand the dynamics changed,
(06:19):
stopped doing a lot of those fora while.
But we're on the uptick againbecause things have kind of
settled, at least at the newlevel of pricing that we can get
all those materials at areasonable amount.
That doesn't, you know, youdon't have to take it alone to
come to the brewery to have abeer, you know, um.
So so we're on that upwardtrend again.
But also with keeping some ofour normal beers here, like our
(06:44):
lagers and our Saint David'sStout that everybody raves about
and our Towne Sterling ESB.
That's on our beer engine.
That's the other thing thatsets us apart.
A beer engine is just whenyou're looking at the old
English style where they havethose taps that just stick up
out of the bar and it's a poollever and it's a pump just to
(07:04):
pump that beer into the glassand it agitates it there and
that's how you get the head anda little bit of creaminess.
So those are.
Those are kind of the three bigthings that set us apart from
almost every other breweryaround, to be honest nice.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Congratulations on all your success.
You really are a front runnerin the industry.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Congratulations well, thank Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
It means a lot to us.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, so tell me, are there any myths or
misconceptions that you hearabout, about either Red Dragon
or the industry?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So there are some myths and just because of, again
, covid, and there's a lot ofbreweries that are closing and
there's a lot that are trying toopen and struggling.
And this industry does kind ofstruggle now because, you know,
in some aspects craft beer is abit of a luxury for some people,
(07:59):
a lot of people.
I mean, if you can go getsomething a little bit cheaper
and you can have two or three ofthem versus one or two, then
people will gravitate towardsthat.
But it's a hard balance we haveto do here.
One of the one of the thingsthat's been kicked around, or
I've heard rumors of here andthere we um, when my partners
(08:21):
wanted to step away from thebusiness a few years ago uh, you
know the, the little rumor millin town of like, oh, they're
closing there, this is going tohappen, that's going to happen.
Uh, you know, business modelisn't great because they don't
serve food or things like that.
Um, we're still here.
There's a lot of breweries thathave closed up because of COVID
(08:43):
or because of lack of interest.
My other two partners, they havestepped away, like I said, but
I also have another brewery thatI'm involved with in North
Carolina, so I have a bit of youknow and it's quite a bigger
brewery as far as we distributeto the whole state down there
and we have a big tap room and akitchen, and so I was, and
(09:07):
there was a little bit ofdisagreement as there always is
with partners of business modelsfor things that we wanted to do
here, and so the great part ofme taking over the full gamut
here is I can institute allthose ideas that I had before,
and so some people look at thatas like, oh wow, they're not
producing this anymore.
They're not doing that, but it'sjust shifting that business
(09:30):
model to something that is alittle bit more sustainable but
also wide variety for people.
So we have changed up some ofthe beers we do and we've, you
know, like I said, we're gettingback to some of these other
things that so hopefully thatquells the rumors of and there
was a.
There was a couple of peoplewho've approached me about
buying the business and thenthey stepped away from it, and
(09:54):
you know so, unfortunately,people talk and then they say,
oh, they're selling Red Dragon.
You know anybody that's inbusiness understands if somebody
comes to you and they want tobuy it and there's always a
discussion, right.
So we're still here, we're notgoing out of business, we're not
selling, unless somebody comesout and they want to be a
(10:23):
partner here or they want to dosome great investment in a local
business.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I'm not afraid of having a conversation with
people.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
But we're here.
We're here for the community,we're here for folks like you
and your friends, who just wantto come down and have a place to
chill and have a nice beverage,nice.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So it sounds like there have been a lot of, I
guess, lessons learned and someshifting and adapting that you
know all successful businesseshave to do.
Absolutely, let me ask you thisDo you have some advice for new
entrepreneurs, maybe forsomeone who's thinking about
opening a brewery, or is theresome advice, maybe, that you
(11:00):
wish you had received?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
uh, the advice that I would have received and and
this is this is not necessarilya play on my partners here, but
it's, you know, it always taxesit when you go into business
with friends or closeacquaintances and even family.
You know, just always put thatin perspective when you do that
and have that.
You, I believe you have to havethat hard conversation and if
(11:29):
it's you and your spouse orsomething, it's going to have a
business together, you reallyhave to have it, because now
you're living together 24 sevenand that little thing about the
floor didn't get mopped.
Then you go home and the dishesdidn't get mopped.
Then you go home and the dishesdidn't get put away, or
whatever may come out of that.
It can build up as a little bitof chronic stress that is
(11:50):
sometimes hard to deal with.
So I would say, be sure andhave those hard conversations
with your partners, or even ifthey're silent partners or
investors or things like that,when you're getting ready to
start a business.
As far as, if you're going tostart a business, and breweries
included, look at the areayou're going to open up in and
(12:13):
this is, um, you can see this inthis brewery industry as well,
for lack of a better cliche in2015-ish, and we had already had
this plan, so it's not like wewere jumping on a bandwagon.
But the bank started lending alot of money and then people
(12:33):
thought it's a license to printmoney and open a brewery.
It's just barley and wheat andwater and yeast and man, it just
turns into gold.
And that is not necessarily thecase.
There's a lot of work involved,no matter what the business is.
And look at your area, becausemarket saturation does happen,
(12:57):
and my favorite thing to say topeople is hey, you and your
friends get together and youhave a pizza pie.
Well, if you have 10 friendsand you only have one pizza,
everybody gets just a smallslice and everybody walks away
hungry.
So if you're looking in thearea and you're like, wow, man,
I've always wanted to open awine bar or a sandwich shop or
(13:18):
anything like that, how manyother places or eateries or
drinking establishments arethere around and are you going
to bring the area to saturation?
Because then it doesn't helpanyone and, of course, everybody
has the idea that theirs is thebest.
And I can do it better.
Dr Andy Roark and I wouldrecommend going to a partnership
(13:39):
with somebody who maybe alreadyhas a business and see if you
actually like it first, orapprentice there or some things
like that, internships Becauseagain, it's a lot harder than
people think and I've beenthrough this with both of my
breweries of different partnersand different things going on.
People just think it's easy todo and it's like, well, today
(14:02):
this broke and tomorrow thatbroke, and then OK, where are we
finding the money to get that?
Or are we shifting it around?
Or who's the best guy to repairit?
Or he's out of town, and nowyou have that stress added to it
.
And if you're producingsomething, or it's just
something that you know, therefrigerator in the front that
holds the Coca-Cola, you know,is that, is it just that OK?
(14:23):
Front that holds the thecoca-cola's, you know, is that,
is it just that?
Okay, we can live without thatfor a while.
But all those little stressorsadd up to people um, getting
super frustrated, and then thatwill affect your face when
you're talking to the public aswell.
So people can see that, peoplecan see that stress and I'm sure
you know you've walked intoplaces and you're like, wow,
this person is having a bad dayor something like that, if it's
(14:43):
chronic in that because you'restressed about.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know business or things like that.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
It really does translate to people don't want
to be in a place, that's sad orthat guy's stressed all the time
.
I don't know if that totallyanswered your question but oh,
definitely.
And it touches on a fewdifferent things.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, two big takeaways.
Be very careful with who youpartner with and be very
intentional with where themarket that you are going to
open in.
So that's really good advice.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Thank you Absolutely, and you know.
Look at the future market, Forinstance.
We're very fortunate in ourlocation.
When we started this place itwas a warehouse, so we
retrofitted it, so our cost wasa little bit less than what it
would be to just go to astraight place that was already
(15:37):
semi-established or has a retailbusiness.
So just that price per squarebridge can be quite a huge
difference in your base cost.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, really good.
A lot of people just don'tthink about that.
Really good advice.
Thank you for that.
So clearly you are a very busyperson and you have two
breweries and you've got a lotgoing on.
So tell me when you're notworking, the rare occasion
you're not working, what are youdoing for fun?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
we need to know well, I probably the biggest thing I
do, and I don't know if it's forfun or stress relief, but I do
like cycling.
Um, and that translates alittle bit from one of I
mentioned before, bill Evans,who was instrumental and he was
a minority partner with us hereat the brewery, but we went to
(16:28):
high school together and he's ateacher at Fredericksburg
Academy also, so he's a bit of alocal legend and he's a
bicyclist and we do a bikes andbeers thing at the brewery every
Wednesday and it's a socialthing.
So everybody meets here aroundfive, 30 and then they'll go on
to like a 45 minute to an hourride.
(16:49):
Some of the guys are supercompetitive that ride and do
stuff like that, and some ofthem are just there for the
social atmosphere.
But whether it's for fun orstress relief, I like to go
bicycling.
It's a great thing to.
It's good for your body, lowimpact, all those kinds of
things.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, that sounds like fun and a nice, a nice
additional way for yourcustomers to gather and you're
creating a community there atRed Dragon.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Absolutely yes, and that's what we try to pride
ourself on and I'll touch onthat community thing again for a
second is we used to do a lotof events and a lot of trivia
and a lot of things like that,and some of that is nice.
But I want us to be more of aplace that's for community
events, where people can justkind of come and hang out, kind
(17:44):
of like a cheers bar, if youwill, so it's not loud, it's not
sports going on or these otherthings, so you can come in and
just have a couple of beverages.
You know, we encourage peopleto bring their own food if they
want, but we have a food truckand some.
We do an awesome Bavarianpretzel, but you can.
A place that you can kind ofcome and chill out and be
(18:05):
community.
Uh, walk down here, drive downhere, ride your bicycle down
here, you know, and we haveoff-street parking so it makes
it that easy, so that this canbe the place that you can
decompress and you don't have toworry about some of those
things.
Again community.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that so much.
So is there anything that youwish the listeners knew about
Red Dragon Brewery?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That we're the best in the nation.
So I was talking about thisbefore, about this untapped the
social media and beer ratingsystem, so some people didn't
know it.
We would talk about itoccasionally, but we were
actually ranked about number 25in the nation wow just prior to
(18:52):
covid, and then of course, morepeople started adapting to using
that system for their menus andstuff like that.
But you know that's, you know alot of people don't know that's
wow, it's just a local brewerybut we, you know, back to being
invited to the beer festival andstuff like that.
We produce some awesome beersand you know, and there are some
(19:14):
you know people who say, well,the beer quality kind of went
down for a bit and a lot of thathas to do with supply chains
and things like that that were alot of out of our control and
so we weren't getting theingredients we want to make the
great products we had andunfortunately that kind of
suffered for a bit.
So we maybe didn't put out thebest product we could or that is
(19:38):
available, but it was also costversus availability and things
like that.
So, and you know, if peoplearen't coming in too after that
covid where people just starteddoing a lot of drinking at home,
so um, but that you know, weare back to producing those
beers that everybody talkedabout and all that before.
(20:00):
So nice.
That's kind of the little knownthing.
I guess I noticed that you knowwe're nationally ranked at
points in the brewery.
We still have the same brewer,we still have all that stuff.
So we're getting back to it.
We just want the public to comeout and support us as well,
because I hear from everybodythey love our establishment but
sometimes it doesn't materializewith people coming in, and
(20:24):
every time we do some big event.
I love this place, I want tocome here Sometimes.
I just never see them and it'sunfortunate.
But we're all busy too.
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah Well, if the listeners want to come and check
you out and taste your beersand hang out in your
establishment, how can they findyou?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
and taste your beers and hang out in your
establishment.
How can they find you?
So you can find us on theworldwide web, at red dragon
brewery LLCcom, on Facebook,instagram, and just come on down
here.
If you look us up on Google, ifyou're looking for something
like a venue to do whether it'sa company party or a family
get-together or something likethat you can actually do a
(21:03):
virtual tour.
Go to Google Maps, look at ourplace and look at the pictures
on the left-hand side, andthere's a virtual tour 360, you
can do so that you can take alook on the inside if you've
never been here.
But yeah, that's the best waysto get a hold of us.
And, again, we're open fordoing events and things like
that, but we don't really chargea whole lot for you to come
(21:27):
down here and do something.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Nice Well, mark.
Congratulations on all yoursuccess and thank you so much
for joining me on the podcasttoday and sharing Red Dragon
Brewery with us.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Absolutely Thank you for taking the time to meet with
me and Brewery with us.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Absolutely Thank you for taking the time to meet with
me.
Thank you for listening to theFredericksburg Neighbors Podcast
.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go tofxbgneighborspodcast.
com.
That's fxbgneighborspodcast.
com, or call 540-534-4618.
This is the Fredericksburg Neighbors Podcast
, the place where localbusinesses and neighbors come
together.
Here's your host, Dori Stewart.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back to another episode of the
Fredericksburg Neighbors Podcast, where we share the stories of
our favorite local brands.
Today, I'm excited to introduceyou to Mark Perry of Red Dragon
Brewery.
Mark, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, thanks for taking the time to showcase our
place.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah well, I'm excited to dive in and learn
more about you and about yourbusiness.
So let's start there.
Share with us a little bitabout the brewery brewery.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Okay, so the brewery was an idea of three folks.
Back in the early 2010s, theVirginia changed their brewery
laws so that you could actuallyhave tap rooms and open up and
serve and not have to serve food.
That had been a restriction formany forever in the state of
Virginia of distilleries andwineries and things that you had
to serve food if you servedalcohol.
Well, you know, it all comesdown to money, so I think the
(01:11):
state of Virginia said, hey, wecan tax this, so we will allow
it.
So there was a guy named TomEvans and I went to high school
with his younger brother, BillEvans, and another guy named Dan
Baker and Tom was the homebrewer.
I went to his house here inFredericksburg and he's a
graduate of JM.
The rest of us went, graduatedfrom Spotsylvania High School at
(01:33):
the courthouse the old one andanyways, he had some great beers
and all of that.
And he said, yeah, I'm thinkingabout starting my hobby into a
business and this was about 2012.
And then we pushed it off alittle bit.
I was doing international workat the time.
My real job is I'm a pilot.
(01:53):
I came from the area, joinedthe military, ended up being a
pilot and I've done a little bitof something all over the world
.
So when the idea came up aboutthis too, I decided know, hey,
let's give something back to myhometown also.
So in 2015, we kind of came tosome terms, agreements, and
(02:15):
found a location and all ofthose kinds of things, and there
you go.
So we started putting ittogether back then and we opened
full business in 2016.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I love that so much and I love that you have deep
roots in the Fredericksburg area.
That's amazing?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes, absolutely.
And the other guys too, and DanBaker and Tom and Dan have
stepped away from the business.
Now, life, things change andall of that.
But Dan, he just lived up thestreet and he would.
You know, he was integral withtalking to neighbors Good and
bad ideas of opening an alcoholestablishment in nearly a
(02:56):
residential area, which therewas some pushback on it.
But we had to explain to peoplewhat a brewery was also because
most people equated it to justa bar and you know.
But all that stigma that comeswith that but, uh, dan and I was
out of the country.
so you know, Dan and Tom andBill also, they, they, you know
(03:17):
they beat the pavement and theytalked to everybody about.
Uh, hey, this is not whatyou're thinking.
I don't want to say upperclientele, but people who come
and drink craft beer aren't intoruckuses and causing
disturbances.
They just want to have a goodtime with their friends and
family and then just go home and90% of them, or more, are
(03:41):
responsible drinkers and stufflike that, so they're just there
for the one or two or just torelax.
It's worked out real well.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I love that and people who love good beer.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So tell me about the difference in Red Dragon Brewery
versus some of the other, Likewhat is your unique factor?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So what put us on the map?
We were, one thing, ifanybody's familiar with Untapped
, which is a menu service andalso social media for beer.
We were one of the firstadapters of that, which was also
a good gauge of how you'redoing in the industry.
But our brewer, cody Natale, hecame up from Charleston, south
(04:30):
Carolina.
He'd been here for a few years,he'd worked at a couple of
different breweries around town,but he came from a restaurant
and hospitality background.
Well, he was on the latesttrend.
So he started doing our reallybig juicy IPAs.
People who didn't like IPAs.
(04:52):
They were like, wow, I thoughtthey were all bitter and got you
right in the cheek where youjust don't like it, like that
super sour lemon.
So those, he started makingthose for us and then he also
brought in the we even just callthem smoothies now the sours or
(05:13):
gozes that are heavily fruited.
And those two things are whatreally put us on the map here in
Reddicksburg, because you knoweverybody can make just an
average beer.
But we did something that was atrendsetter, I would say,
nationally.
We were invited shortly afterthat to Snallygaster, which is
(05:33):
in Washington DC.
It's a big beer festival andit's by invitation only, and
this small little brewery herein Fredericksburg, Virginia,
even though we're close to DC,it doesn't mean that it was
obligatory to invite us.
We were invited to it and itwas a great showing and people
around the United States andeven the world got to see what
(05:56):
we do down here.
So those are the things thatreally set us apart.
And then to talk a little bitmore about that, that kind of
fell apart during COVID withbeing able to produce some of
those things because of the highcost of ingredients at that
time and people couldn't go outand the dynamics changed,
(06:19):
stopped doing a lot of those fora while.
But we're on the uptick againbecause things have kind of
settled, at least at the newlevel of pricing that we can get
all those materials at areasonable amount.
That doesn't, you know, youdon't have to take it alone to
come to the brewery to have abeer, you know, um.
So so we're on that upwardtrend again.
But also with keeping some ofour normal beers here, like our
(06:44):
lagers and our Saint David'sStout that everybody raves about
and our Towne Sterling ESB.
That's on our beer engine.
That's the other thing thatsets us apart.
A beer engine is just whenyou're looking at the old
English style where they havethose taps that just stick up
out of the bar and it's a poollever and it's a pump just to
(07:04):
pump that beer into the glassand it agitates it there and
that's how you get the head anda little bit of creaminess.
So those are.
Those are kind of the three bigthings that set us apart from
almost every other breweryaround, to be honest nice.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Congratulations on all your success.
You really are a front runnerin the industry.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Congratulations well, thank Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
It means a lot to us.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, so tell me, are there any myths or
misconceptions that you hearabout, about either Red Dragon
or the industry?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So there are some myths and just because of, again
, covid, and there's a lot ofbreweries that are closing and
there's a lot that are trying toopen and struggling.
And this industry does kind ofstruggle now because, you know,
in some aspects craft beer is abit of a luxury for some people,
(07:59):
a lot of people.
I mean, if you can go getsomething a little bit cheaper
and you can have two or three ofthem versus one or two, then
people will gravitate towardsthat.
But it's a hard balance we haveto do here.
One of the one of the thingsthat's been kicked around, or
I've heard rumors of here andthere we um, when my partners
(08:21):
wanted to step away from thebusiness a few years ago uh, you
know the, the little rumor millin town of like, oh, they're
closing there, this is going tohappen, that's going to happen.
Uh, you know, business modelisn't great because they don't
serve food or things like that.
Um, we're still here.
There's a lot of breweries thathave closed up because of COVID
(08:43):
or because of lack of interest.
My other two partners, they havestepped away, like I said, but
I also have another brewery thatI'm involved with in North
Carolina, so I have a bit of youknow and it's quite a bigger
brewery as far as we distributeto the whole state down there
and we have a big tap room and akitchen, and so I was, and
(09:07):
there was a little bit ofdisagreement as there always is
with partners of business modelsfor things that we wanted to do
here, and so the great part ofme taking over the full gamut
here is I can institute allthose ideas that I had before,
and so some people look at thatas like, oh wow, they're not
producing this anymore.
They're not doing that, but it'sjust shifting that business
(09:30):
model to something that is alittle bit more sustainable but
also wide variety for people.
So we have changed up some ofthe beers we do and we've, you
know, like I said, we're gettingback to some of these other
things that so hopefully thatquells the rumors of and there
was a.
There was a couple of peoplewho've approached me about
buying the business and thenthey stepped away from it, and
(09:54):
you know so, unfortunately,people talk and then they say,
oh, they're selling Red Dragon.
You know anybody that's inbusiness understands if somebody
comes to you and they want tobuy it and there's always a
discussion, right.
So we're still here, we're notgoing out of business, we're not
selling, unless somebody comesout and they want to be a
(10:23):
partner here or they want to dosome great investment in a local
business.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I'm not afraid of having a conversation with
people.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
But we're here.
We're here for the community,we're here for folks like you
and your friends, who just wantto come down and have a place to
chill and have a nice beverage,nice.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
So it sounds like there have been a lot of, I
guess, lessons learned and someshifting and adapting that you
know all successful businesseshave to do.
Absolutely, let me ask you thisDo you have some advice for new
entrepreneurs, maybe forsomeone who's thinking about
opening a brewery, or is theresome advice, maybe, that you
(11:00):
wish you had received?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
uh, the advice that I would have received and and
this is this is not necessarilya play on my partners here, but
it's, you know, it always taxesit when you go into business
with friends or closeacquaintances and even family.
You know, just always put thatin perspective when you do that
and have that.
You, I believe you have to havethat hard conversation and if
(11:29):
it's you and your spouse orsomething, it's going to have a
business together, you reallyhave to have it, because now
you're living together 24 sevenand that little thing about the
floor didn't get mopped.
Then you go home and the dishesdidn't get mopped.
Then you go home and the dishesdidn't get put away, or
whatever may come out of that.
It can build up as a little bitof chronic stress that is
(11:50):
sometimes hard to deal with.
So I would say, be sure andhave those hard conversations
with your partners, or even ifthey're silent partners or
investors or things like that,when you're getting ready to
start a business.
As far as, if you're going tostart a business, and breweries
included, look at the areayou're going to open up in and
(12:13):
this is, um, you can see this inthis brewery industry as well,
for lack of a better cliche in2015-ish, and we had already had
this plan, so it's not like wewere jumping on a bandwagon.
But the bank started lending alot of money and then people
(12:33):
thought it's a license to printmoney and open a brewery.
It's just barley and wheat andwater and yeast and man, it just
turns into gold.
And that is not necessarily thecase.
There's a lot of work involved,no matter what the business is.
And look at your area, becausemarket saturation does happen,
(12:57):
and my favorite thing to say topeople is hey, you and your
friends get together and youhave a pizza pie.
Well, if you have 10 friendsand you only have one pizza,
everybody gets just a smallslice and everybody walks away
hungry.
So if you're looking in thearea and you're like, wow, man,
I've always wanted to open awine bar or a sandwich shop or
(13:18):
anything like that, how manyother places or eateries or
drinking establishments arethere around and are you going
to bring the area to saturation?
Because then it doesn't helpanyone and, of course, everybody
has the idea that theirs is thebest.
And I can do it better.
Dr Andy Roark and I wouldrecommend going to a partnership
(13:39):
with somebody who maybe alreadyhas a business and see if you
actually like it first, orapprentice there or some things
like that, internships Becauseagain, it's a lot harder than
people think and I've beenthrough this with both of my
breweries of different partnersand different things going on.
People just think it's easy todo and it's like, well, today
(14:02):
this broke and tomorrow thatbroke, and then OK, where are we
finding the money to get that?
Or are we shifting it around?
Or who's the best guy to repairit?
Or he's out of town, and nowyou have that stress added to it
.
And if you're producingsomething, or it's just
something that you know, therefrigerator in the front that
holds the Coca-Cola, you know,is that, is it just that OK?
(14:23):
Front that holds the thecoca-cola's, you know, is that,
is it just that?
Okay, we can live without thatfor a while.
But all those little stressorsadd up to people um, getting
super frustrated, and then thatwill affect your face when
you're talking to the public aswell.
So people can see that, peoplecan see that stress and I'm sure
you know you've walked intoplaces and you're like, wow,
this person is having a bad dayor something like that, if it's
(14:43):
chronic in that because you'restressed about.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know business or things like that.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
It really does translate to people don't want
to be in a place, that's sad orthat guy's stressed all the time
.
I don't know if that totallyanswered your question but oh,
definitely.
And it touches on a fewdifferent things.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, two big takeaways.
Be very careful with who youpartner with and be very
intentional with where themarket that you are going to
open in.
So that's really good advice.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Thank you Absolutely, and you know.
Look at the future market, Forinstance.
We're very fortunate in ourlocation.
When we started this place itwas a warehouse, so we
retrofitted it, so our cost wasa little bit less than what it
would be to just go to astraight place that was already
(15:37):
semi-established or has a retailbusiness.
So just that price per squarebridge can be quite a huge
difference in your base cost.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, really good.
A lot of people just don'tthink about that.
Really good advice.
Thank you for that.
So clearly you are a very busyperson and you have two
breweries and you've got a lotgoing on.
So tell me when you're notworking, the rare occasion
you're not working, what are youdoing for fun?
Speaker 3 (16:08):
we need to know well, I probably the biggest thing I
do, and I don't know if it's forfun or stress relief, but I do
like cycling.
Um, and that translates alittle bit from one of I
mentioned before, bill Evans,who was instrumental and he was
a minority partner with us hereat the brewery, but we went to
(16:28):
high school together and he's ateacher at Fredericksburg
Academy also, so he's a bit of alocal legend and he's a
bicyclist and we do a bikes andbeers thing at the brewery every
Wednesday and it's a socialthing.
So everybody meets here aroundfive, 30 and then they'll go on
to like a 45 minute to an hourride.
(16:49):
Some of the guys are supercompetitive that ride and do
stuff like that, and some ofthem are just there for the
social atmosphere.
But whether it's for fun orstress relief, I like to go
bicycling.
It's a great thing to.
It's good for your body, lowimpact, all those kinds of
things.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, that sounds like fun and a nice, a nice
additional way for yourcustomers to gather and you're
creating a community there atRed Dragon.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Absolutely yes, and that's what we try to pride
ourself on and I'll touch onthat community thing again for a
second is we used to do a lotof events and a lot of trivia
and a lot of things like that,and some of that is nice.
But I want us to be more of aplace that's for community
events, where people can justkind of come and hang out, kind
(17:44):
of like a cheers bar, if youwill, so it's not loud, it's not
sports going on or these otherthings, so you can come in and
just have a couple of beverages.
You know, we encourage peopleto bring their own food if they
want, but we have a food truckand some.
We do an awesome Bavarianpretzel, but you can.
A place that you can kind ofcome and chill out and be
(18:05):
community.
Uh, walk down here, drive downhere, ride your bicycle down
here, you know, and we haveoff-street parking so it makes
it that easy, so that this canbe the place that you can
decompress and you don't have toworry about some of those
things.
Again community.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that so much.
So is there anything that youwish the listeners knew about
Red Dragon Brewery?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That we're the best in the nation.
So I was talking about thisbefore, about this untapped the
social media and beer ratingsystem, so some people didn't
know it.
We would talk about itoccasionally, but we were
actually ranked about number 25in the nation wow just prior to
(18:52):
covid, and then of course, morepeople started adapting to using
that system for their menus andstuff like that.
But you know that's, you know alot of people don't know that's
wow, it's just a local brewerybut we, you know, back to being
invited to the beer festival andstuff like that.
We produce some awesome beersand you know, and there are some
(19:14):
you know people who say, well,the beer quality kind of went
down for a bit and a lot of thathas to do with supply chains
and things like that that were alot of out of our control and
so we weren't getting theingredients we want to make the
great products we had andunfortunately that kind of
suffered for a bit.
So we maybe didn't put out thebest product we could or that is
(19:38):
available, but it was also costversus availability and things
like that.
So, and you know, if peoplearen't coming in too after that
covid where people just starteddoing a lot of drinking at home,
so um, but that you know, weare back to producing those
beers that everybody talkedabout and all that before.
(20:00):
So nice.
That's kind of the little knownthing.
I guess I noticed that you knowwe're nationally ranked at
points in the brewery.
We still have the same brewer,we still have all that stuff.
So we're getting back to it.
We just want the public to comeout and support us as well,
because I hear from everybodythey love our establishment but
sometimes it doesn't materializewith people coming in, and
(20:24):
every time we do some big event.
I love this place, I want tocome here Sometimes.
I just never see them and it'sunfortunate.
But we're all busy too.
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah Well, if the listeners want to come and check
you out and taste your beersand hang out in your
establishment, how can they findyou?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
and taste your beers and hang out in your
establishment.
How can they find you?
So you can find us on theworldwide web, at red dragon
brewery LLCcom, on Facebook,instagram, and just come on down
here.
If you look us up on Google, ifyou're looking for something
like a venue to do whether it'sa company party or a family
get-together or something likethat you can actually do a
(21:03):
virtual tour.
Go to Google Maps, look at ourplace and look at the pictures
on the left-hand side, andthere's a virtual tour 360, you
can do so that you can take alook on the inside if you've
never been here.
But yeah, that's the best waysto get a hold of us.
And, again, we're open fordoing events and things like
that, but we don't really chargea whole lot for you to come
(21:27):
down here and do something.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Nice Well, mark.
Congratulations on all yoursuccess and thank you so much
for joining me on the podcasttoday and sharing Red Dragon
Brewery with us.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Absolutely Thank you for taking the time to meet with
me and Brewery with us.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Absolutely Thank you for taking the time to meet with
me.
Thank you for listening to theFredericksburg Neighbors Podcast
.
To nominate your favorite localbusinesses to be featured on
the show, go tofxbgneighborspodcast.
com.
That's fxbgneighborspodcast.
com, or call 540-534-4618.
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