JASON REITMAN In Conversation: from 'Juno' to 'Saturday Night'

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, welcome back to Half the Picture podcast.

(00:02):
My name is Billy Barnell and I am beyond thrilled to be joined today by Mr. Jason Reitman.
How are you doing, Jason?
Welcome to the show.
I'm doing great.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Great!
So if I thought we'd start by going back, if we can, through the mists of time back to your
first film, Thank You for Smoking, because that film is going to be 20 years old next

(00:23):
year and I thought, you know, it's as good a place to start.
Oh, man alive.
You gotta to level me with that right from the get go?
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
Just bear with me.
Bear with me.
It'll be okay.
It'll be okay.
I promise.
So, yeah, I mean, going back to your first film, I mean, you were, you know, when I was
rewatching it and researching it, I was amazed to discover how, I guess, how young you were

(00:47):
when you made it.
You were 27.
You were younger than me.
And as I was watching it again, what came off to me the most revisiting it is just
how exuberant that film is.
It's so, I guess it feels so youthful.
It's such an exuberant film.
The style is so kinetic and visual and there's freeze frames and there's a sort of brash first
person narrator and split screen and stock footage montages and all this stuff.

(01:12):
It felt like you were sort of, you know, wanting to shove everything you loved about movies
into a movie.
And did you feel exuberant when you were making it, when you were sort of feeling like, did
you want to, did you feel like you wanted to sort of just kind of shove everything you
want you loved about movies and making movies into a movie like stylistically?
I mean, is that how it felt at the time or is that like in retrospect how you feel about
the film?
I am as guilty as so many first time directors of wanting to do everything in one film.

(01:39):
And when I look back at Thank You for Smoking, that's exactly what I see.
I see someone who is so excited to be making a movie and wants to try everything.
And you can see how many directors that I admire in that one film because there's a
lot of people I'm trying to emulate.
Yeah, I really feel a lot of that sort of Scorsese-esque sort of energy and that sort

(02:01):
of that rush of just, you know, playing with all those different formats and montages and
techniques and things like that.
I mean, is that an exuberance that you still feel when you're making movies?
Because having revisited your back catalogue recently, it does feel that way.
It does feel like there is still that thrill of filmmaking in there throughout as a friend
throughout all of them.
I mean, I love the actual act of making movies.

(02:24):
I love being on set.
I love my crew.
I love figuring out problems on set.
I love old school solutions to new problems.
And when you can solve something with something mechanical, almost like a magic trick, that's
my favourite thing on earth.

(02:45):
I think over the course of my career, what I've learned more and more is to really live
in the moment, as cheesy as that sounds, and enjoy the actual practice of getting up in
the morning and talking to my crew and talking about what we're going to try to do today
and coming up with solutions in real time.
And that's what I hear filmmaking is about every day.

(03:05):
It's problem solving.
I mean, that's interesting what you say about how kind of living in the moment and letting,
I guess, the moment breathe on film, because when I was watching the film, I mean, I was
thinking about your approach of actors because the cast of Thank You for Smoking is just
absolutely phenomenal.
I've forgotten just how many great names, you know, young and old, the veterans that
are in there like Jake Simmons, I know you've worked with loads of times, and Robert Duvall

(03:28):
and all these guys who you got for your first movie.
I mean, that was sort of what I wanted to ask that next was like, what was it like being
like it's your first movie and you're directing people like Robert Duvall?
And that's like, you know, you have to be the dad, the father of the director of that
crew and that cast.
What was that like?
Well, I definitely wasn't.
I was a child.
So and I felt that I felt that when I was directing all those people you're talking

(03:51):
about that even though I grew up around actors and I grew up on sets, it's a whole other
thing when you got to wake up and look, I've been making short films and making commercials,
but it's a whole other thing to show up on set.
And Bill Macy is there, Robert Duvall is there, or Sam Elliott is there.
I remember actually specifically waking up the first morning I had to direct Robert Duvall
and thinking, what the fuck do I have to say to Robert Duvall?

(04:16):
Right?
And then I watched a take of him and I had an idea and I shared it with him and that
was it.
I was like, oh, that's right.
We talk a lot about directing being a creative job.
And that's true.
You do have to create a lot of ideas, but so much of directing is reaction.
It's reflection.

(04:36):
It's watching something and asking yourself, all right, why doesn't this feel real?
Why doesn't this feel right?
And where does your brain go at that point?
And too often we're thinking, is this dramatic enough or is this funny enough?
And really what we should be asking ourselves is, do I believe this?
And if not, what is it about this shot?

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And is it because of the way the character enters?
Is it the way the first thing they say?
Is it one character's reaction to another, which looks good on the page, but isn't the
way a person really would?
And the way I hopefully have grown as a director is in that moment instead of holding strictly
to my script because it is the thing that I wrote down at one point, I'm able in that

(05:20):
moment to go, okay, obviously this doesn't feel real.
How do I encourage the actor to take a completely new tact and be comfortable with wherever
that takes the scene?
That's interesting because the scripts for your films are so touching on that.

(05:41):
So many of them are so iconic and they're so renowned for being full of, I mean, obviously
incredibly quote, quote, quote dialogue, but the characters are often so vividly realised.
And when I was watching, particularly your films with Diablo Cody, who you've worked
with three times on, you know, you've directed three of her scripts, I was wondering on things
like Juno or Pully, or even on something like Thank You for Smoking, do you improvise much

(06:03):
with the actors?
Do you allow for improv or is it a fairly controlled like, okay, this is the script,
we're going to follow it to the letter, this is how we're going to do it.
Is that, you know, what kind of way do you work in that regard?
It's so interesting that you asked that question because I think improv is one of these loaded
words that can mean so many different things.
I think one person when they hear improv, they imagine that kind of Judd Apatow version

(06:24):
where it's like, okay, just go, like, just see where the scene takes you.
If a line of dialogue goes left, just go left for 20 miles and see and he comes up brilliant
things that way.
And he has obviously a lot of confidence and ability to, his ability to keep all these
different things going.
I think the way that I like improv on my set is I think I know what a scene is supposed

(06:47):
to be about.
I know where it's supposed to go, start to finish.
And I obviously love when an actor knows that too.
And the kind of improvisation that I'm open to and I really thrive on is when an actor
understands the idea of a line of dialogue and exactly what it's supposed to do, how
it's supposed to hit the target at what speed, what trajectory, and has a much better way

(07:11):
of doing that.
And certain people like a guy like Patton Oswald, as soon as he knows what the target
is, he has 20 different ways of hitting it.
And then I really trust that actor's ability to find a much more interesting or much more
honest way to hit the target.
But as long as improvisation doesn't mean, okay, the scene has a completely new destination

(07:33):
or like a completely new target.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So the structure of the bones of the scene are there, but you allow space to rip and
be spontaneous as well.
It sounds like you're looking for sort of spontaneity as much as you are.
You've got the idea of the scene already set in stone.
Yeah.
I mean, one of my favorite versions of improvisation, frankly, is when if a line of dialogue reveals

(07:56):
too much of what a character is feeling, I love a piece of improv that gets the same
idea across but hides the feelings of the character more.
That turns the character into a better liar.
Well, that's something about, I guess, talking about, I guess, what makes films unique in
terms of characters is that because in real life, obviously, you're talking to whoever,

(08:19):
you can't obviously peer inside their head like you can in another medium like a book
or where you can actually see and speak that way and you know exactly at any point what
a character is thinking.
Well, you can do that in film, but I think the great power of sort of film and characters
on film is the fact that they lend themselves really well to not being explained because
like in real life, you can't peer into someone's head.

(08:40):
You're looking at them because film is visual.
Does that make sense?
I guess what you're describing about making the character a better liar, liars work well
on film, I think, and enigmas, I guess, characters that are enigmas work very powerfully on film
as opposed to like other mediums.
Well, yeah, right, because look, almost every film is a mystery of some kind, right?

(09:04):
And it doesn't have to be a crime thriller in which you have to figure out who did it.
There's always a mystery of where is this movie going to go?
Where's the story going?
Why is the filmmaker telling me this story?
And what do these actors, what do these characters actually feel?
And we thrive on our ability to kind of slowly solve that equation over the course of the
movie.

(09:25):
And I think some of the greatest aha moments of watching a movie is when you suddenly understand
the character, perhaps even better than they understand themselves.
And there's a real joy to that.
Like I think there is a kind of like, I see dead people kind of like, you know, moment
of just understanding what somebody wants and what they really mean when they say something.

(09:53):
And I don't know, I find those moments kind of gorgeous.
Well, there are, I mean, there are so many of those in your films.
I mean, I think of like, just off the top of my head, like, I mean, I think of Young
Adult or a film like that.
I mean, Young Adult, which incidentally is my favourite of your films.
I really love that film and rewatching it for this.
You know, my pleasure, rewatching it for this interview was such a great experience.

(10:15):
And the fact that I think exactly what you're talking about there is so concretised in Charlize
Frum's character of Mavis and things like, you know, there's so many moments in that
film where she's doing all the wrong things, she's saying all the wrong things and you're
watching and you're thinking like, why, you know, of course, you know, if you could put
you that empathy, that empathetic sort of relationship between the viewer and the film

(10:36):
is, you know, if I was in that position, I would not do that.
And that why are you doing that?
And then at the end where, you know, I guess, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen Young Adult,
but you know, that the final 10 minutes where she's talking to Patton Oswald's sister and
then and she and she has learned something from that film, but she ignores it.
She does the easy thing.
And she ignores it, which is actually, I found so funny.

(10:57):
It's so much about that.
It's heartbreaking.
But it's also so funny and truthful about that she has gone back to try and sort of
salvage, you know, the last great time in her life, and then she finds that she that
she can't and it's poised that chalice is poison.
And then she decides I'm you know, I'm out of here.
And then but what she's going back to is not is hardly better than what she thinks she's

(11:19):
leaving.
So, you know, and I just found that so funny.
I mean, I think Diablo is a brilliant writer on all fronts, but particularly at self deceiving
characters.
And, you know, one of her greatest gifts is building these broken mirrors that reflect

(11:40):
the ugliest parts of our personality.
And the joy of reading her work and the joy of hopefully watching one of her movies is
seeing yourself in it, recognizing parts of the characters that you're embarrassed to
look at and see yourself in yourself.
And you know, are you willing as a as an audience member to let go of your shame for a moment

(12:01):
and see these qualities that are really hard to look at sometimes in the same way that
I think, you know, Fleabag or like Baby Reindeer, you know, I think had, you know, do so brilliantly.
But Diablo has a way every time I read one of her scripts, I see myself in these characters,
and I see perhaps the things that I want to hide the most.

(12:22):
And then it instinctually I want to, like, pull the covers off them and put them on screen.
And that is a thread, I think, that goes through so many of the films, not just the ones of
Diablo.
I mean, like Up in the Air, Ryan Bingham, Josh Clooney in that film is such a similar
case in terms of, you know, here's a spiky character who the acceptable handsome face
of something that's very unpleasant and is ultimately left kind of in a similar position,

(12:46):
I guess, to Mavis in Young Adult, where, you know, he's at a crossroads and he's learned
something, but he's learned something by losing, I guess, an illusion of a love that he thought
he had.
And it's, you know, you're peeling back, you're unwrapping those, as a storyteller, you're
unwrapping those layers of the union of the character and then putting them in a position
which is not, I guess, conventional in terms of like a Hollywood movie or a mainstream

(13:10):
movie where, you know, you expect everything to be wrapped up in a bow.
And the great thing about so many of your films is that they're not wrapped up in a
bow.
You expect it as an audience to have to sit up and think of it and to, you know, sit with
it and think, you know, okay, well, what do you think about this, you know, as a, you
know, it challenges your expectations, which, yeah.
There was a line I heard once about Miloš Forman that I really loved that I think he

(13:35):
said it himself, he goes, I villainized Mozart and I heroized Larry Flynn.
What a goal, you know, to see those two different human beings in such different lives.
And I love stories in which a main character right from the get-go presents you an ethos

(13:59):
that seems unthinkable but does such a good job presenting it that as an audience member,
you can't help but be like, okay, go on.
And that's why I, the first time I read the book, Thank You for Smoking, I just fell in
love with Nick Naylor, this guy who was presenting tobacco lobbying.

(14:20):
Not only is just a way to pay the bills, but actually that there was an ethos to it and
that everyone deserved a good defense and that people deserve personal autonomy.
And then Juno, the same thing, you know, Diablo was presenting arguments about when we grow
up, can you grow up at 16 or do you never have to grow up, which I think that movie

(14:40):
really was about.
First time I read up in the air the book, this guy who fired people for a living, who's,
you know, presented an argument that life would be better lived alone.
That's the truth of the situation and that we've all bought in on this lie that we were
supposed to fall into kind of harmonious partnerships that, you know, weren't as harmonious as we

(15:00):
thought.
And then of course, young adult, a woman whose goal in life is to break up a marriage and
to time travel to the most caustic moment of her childhood.
There's a real magic trick in trying to get people to fall alongside these flawed characters.
And it makes me love them more than traditional heroes.

(15:22):
Oh, yeah, because they're just more interesting and they're more real.
I mean, you mentioned Juno there.
I mean, I guess in terms of looking at your films, Chronological Lord, I mean, we've
touched on, we've jumped around and touched on Thank You for Smoking.
But Juno, of course, was your second film and I guess in many ways, one of your breakthrough
films and that film reached a massive audience and people absolutely took it to their hearts.

(15:43):
You know, notably obviously people like Roger Ebert were, you know, ecstatic about it.
And I mean, I remember the first time where I was when I first watched that film, which
is, you know, how sort of, I guess, how much of an impact it had.
And I guess as a filmmaker, it really did capture a spirit of the time.
That late 2000s American indie sensibility, it seems to me, looking back at it, that really

(16:04):
and it really crystallized that.
I guess there were a couple of other films around that time, like, you know, Little Miss
Sunshine and those kinds of films and even 500 Days of Summer, which I know your DP,
Eric Steelbridge as well.
But I guess looking back at it now after 16 years hence, sorry again, what was your relationship
now with that film?
What's your relationship now with the film?

(16:25):
I mean, I remember the moment that script came into my life.
I remember literally standing in my doorway having been just handed this script and starting
to read it there, having just barely shut the door and getting pretty deep into the

(16:46):
script and realizing I was just still standing at my front door reading it.
And I was just intoxicated by it.
I'd never read anything like it.
I thought the dialogue was wholly original.
And it had this thing that Diablo does brilliantly, but for some reason isn't as well known for.
She's well known for her dialogue, but people never point to the fact that she's constantly
surprising you with where her stories go.

(17:08):
You character surprise you, her plot twist surprise you and the movie never ends up being
about the thing you think it's going to be about.
Yeah, I mean, what's funny about that movie is I went out for the job and I didn't get
it.
They hired somebody else and I was writing up in the air at the time.

(17:31):
I was really disappointed because I wasn't even actually considered.
I met a lot of directors and they wouldn't even meet with me.
And then they parted ways with that director who is now one of my best friends.
And they went back out on the lookout.
And at that point, Thank You for Smoking had come out and was a relative hit.

(17:52):
And I got a meeting and I went up at that time against four other directors and that
time I got the job.
And it's really interesting because Juno is so responsible for my entire career and my
success.
It changed my life.
None of us expected it to become the hit that it was.
None of us expected it to reach as many people as it did.

(18:15):
And it really it started my career.
It started Diablo's career, Elliot Page's career.
It transformed I think Michael Cera's career, Jason Bateman's career.
I think Kimya Dawson coming off of the Moldy Peaches.
It changed her life.
It did so much and none of us expected it.
We just thought we were making this little movie of play film festivals and that would

(18:37):
be it.
So one, look, you never know when it's going to happen.
But two, you never know if that job you just got turned down for is actually the job that's
going to come around and then change your life.
Well, I mean, what's interesting because revisiting the film, like I said, it sort of crystallizes
that spirit of the time.

(18:58):
It captures the time very well.
But also it feels timeless in the sense that like, because I know one of the things that
I know you guys were asked about when the movie came out was the politics of the subject
matter because it is a subject matter that in different hands could have been spun very
differently and gone in a much more different, more melodramatic, more politicized direction.
Because of course, teen pregnancy and pregnancy in general is still such a sensitive for a

(19:21):
lot of people issue and I sort of get a red button topic.
But because you guys and I guess this goes back all the way back to Diablo's original
screenplay, but you as a director as well, you guys so sort of neatly sidestepped so
much of what you would think would be conventional about that story in terms of where you think
it would go in terms of you think it would explore, I guess, that sort of the teen melodrama

(19:43):
of it more, you know, or I really sort of dive head first into that or the political
aspect.
And the fact that you guys so sort of neatly sidestep that and we're like, no, no, we're
telling this, we know we have these characters that, you know, are sort of realized and we
want it, we have a, you know, it's a different take on that story and it still feels unexpected.
I was rewatching it.
I was thinking, you know, I did not know in another hands, this could be so much more
conventional.
But because you, you decided not to go in that direction, in some ways, it almost contributes

(20:07):
to its timelessness.
You know, the fact that it still holds up, you know, it feels like a product of its time,
but still feels timeless.
Of course, it's down to how good the film is.
But yeah, that was my father.
My father used to say, don't confuse your plot for your location.
To make a movie about adoption versus abortion is to make a movie about your location.

(20:31):
The location of the movie is she's pregnant.
What is she going to do?
But that's not what the movie's about.
The movie is about people struggling with what is the moment you grow up?
How do you define becoming an adult?
When should you become an adult?
How do we preserve innocence?
Should we preserve innocence?
And you have four characters at the center of it, played by Elliot Michael, Jen Garner

(20:54):
and Bateman, who all have different perspectives on what it means to grow up.
And look, there's a moment when you're 16 years old and you have no idea what it means
to grow up.
And you think of your innocence as something casual that whether you dispose of it or not,
you don't really care.
And there's adults who look, there's 30 year old men who are terrified of growing up.
And then there's women who define adulthood about whether or not they become mothers or

(21:18):
not, whether they become married or not, whether they go into the workforce or not.
And Diablo was exploring all of that.
And I think if when I look at my movies, I'm hopefully never getting too bogged down in
my location.
Thank you for smoking is not about cigarettes.
It could have taken place in the world of guns, alcohol, there's a million issues.

(21:41):
It's a movie about personal choice.
It's a movie about autonomy.
You know, it's about how do you be a parent?
Up in the air is certainly not about firing people.
It's not about collecting air miles.
Like those are just locations.
And so that's one thing I talk to young screenwriters all the time about is, are you actually just
making a movie about your location?

(22:02):
Or are you actually telling a story about people who happen to be in that location?
That's so interesting.
Because I guess referring back to what you said earlier about how when specifically Diablo
was so good at sort of surprising you with the directions which her screenplays go and
by consequence, your films go.
I was thinking about Tully and when I rewatched it, which is another one of my favorite of

(22:23):
your films, I love that film very much.
And the direction of course, I mean, I guess it's always that's quite a more of an explicit
kind of daring and the fact that the movie, I guess, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen
Tully, the movie goes in a direction, it feels like it's chugging along in a certain direction.
And then it, you know, it flips on its head.
But in a way that feels genuinely quietly daring, and even though I'd already seen it

(22:47):
again, I'd already seen it.
I mean, I was still surprised by it.
And that movie, I mean, I guess focusing in on that movie specifically for a moment, like
that movie feels like such a true honest portrait of motherhood.
And it still feels like that to me.
And I guess, of course, a lot of that was coming from Diablo and the fact that she's
a mother of three and she was writing the screenplay and a lot of that bled into the

(23:08):
story.
And of course, I know, you know, your parents and Charlize is who co-produced the film as
a parent.
I mean, was it was would be did you guys sort of your life experiences sort of bleed into
the making of the film as well?
When you were doing it?
Certainly.
You know, it's interesting when I think about I think about Tully, I think about Back to
the Future and I'll tell you why.
I heard Bob Gale once say that the the initial idea that led to Back to the Future was if

(23:35):
he had happened to go to high school with his own father, would they be friends?
And that was it.
That's the kernel of the idea.
And then it would time travel or DeLorean's it had to do with would my father and I be
friends if we met in high school?
And that's what he was trying to solve.
That's the story he was trying to tell.
And at that point, you know, he comes up with all the other stuff.
Diablo was telling a story about postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, and most

(24:00):
importantly, how do you save yourself?
How do you in fact, invent somebody to save yourself from within?
And from there, we get the story of, you know, this family and the you know, the night nurse
that comes in and the relationship that they form, and all the ways that the night nurse

(24:22):
attempts to save this family.
This Mary Poppins story.
And the big reveal at the end, isn't that you know, oh, this one was psychotic.
The big reveal at the end is she found a way to save herself from within.
And that term, I found extraordinary for me that that's, that's what makes Diablo Cody

(24:45):
like an actual genius.
And it made me desperate to direct that movie.
I remember hearing you describe a similar experience when you read Young Adult where
you get to the final confrontation scene with Charlize and Patrick Wilson, all the guys
at the baby shower.
And it's just and it's a complete train wreck of an event.
Yeah, I remember reading so that you read that you're like, I that's, that's the movie.

(25:06):
I need to make that movie that I need to do.
I mean, I'm 20% in, which is exactly what I thought, you know, watching that it's like
this is so this is so wrong, but so funny at the same time.
And also heartbreaking, of course, you know, which I feel like you always see that right
in movies, you can look at a movie and always identify the one scene where you're like,
oh, that's why the director wanted to make that movie.

(25:28):
They just really wanted to do that scene.
Everything else is great and all but like they really wanted to do that one scene.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And a young adult if I were there like at least a couple of those, I was that one there's
the you know, that final scene, like with again, Pat and Oswald Sister Wish, you're
good here.
That is good here, which is so funny.
It's so brutal.
But so funny is that line was actually written by Leanne House and the producer on the movie.

(25:51):
We were talking about that moment and what it meant.
And she just said out of nowhere, you're good here.
It's like, oh, that's it.
That's the line.
Fantastic.
I mean, so I guess so touching back on something like Up in the Air for a moment, because that's
what I know.
Actually, this is something that applies to a lot of your films, because one thing that
you that you're known for as a filmmaker is that you like to adapt novels, you know, a

(26:14):
lot of several of your films like Up in the Air, Thank You for Smoking and Men, Women
and Children and Labor Day.
These always stand on the shoulders of giants.
Well, I was going to say, like, what is it about that process that you enjoy?
Because do you find like having a good launching pad of like you've got a book which is, I
guess, a robust foundation for a story and you can see it in your head when you read

(26:35):
it.
Okay, I can see the film of this in my head.
Is that part of the reason why you enjoy adaptation and return to it a lot, you know, so much?
Do you like it as a launching pad?
So that has been your own creativity as a director?
Yeah, I find that just like every other person walking this planet, there's just things I'm
chewing on that are going through my brain that I can't solve.

(26:57):
And we all have those two or three things that we're all working on constantly in our
brains.
And we're trying to figure out about our own existence, about our own fame, about our own
regrets.
As you try to figure out the world, either whether it's inside or outside, and then you
find something that where someone has articulated it well better than you have way better than

(27:20):
you have.
And that's what happens.
And I find a book like Thank You for Smoking that's talking about personal choice.
And I grew up in the 1990s, where I felt like everyone was telling me what to think and
what to do or like up in the air, where this guy had kind of devoted his life to the accumulation

(27:40):
of meaningless things and was questioning what the purpose of all was anyway, like young
adult that, you know, mirrored all the things I did not like about myself.
And I didn't really I didn't know what shelf to put them all on.
And am I just a horrible human being or am I a guy who just hasn't figured it out yet?

(28:05):
And then it becomes this kind of co writing process, where I'm trying to do something
autobiographical.
Even the Saturday Night Live movie that I just finished, I feel like I'm writing an
autobiography while authentically telling the story of the dozens of people who created
the first episode of SNL.
It's interesting that you mentioned SNL 1975, because I wanted to ask about that in terms

(28:29):
of in relation to men, women and children, actually, because watching that film, I was
actually kind of shocked by how many amazing future stars you got for that film.
I mean, at the time, I guess we're really just starting out the career is like Ansel
Elgort, you know, Caitlin Deaver.
I mean, Timothee Chalamet, who had never done a film before is in is in your movie and is

(28:49):
now obviously the biggest, you know, young stars of the day.
And I guess when it comes to a film like Men, Women and Children or SNL 1975, which I know
you've cast a lot of great young actors like Rachel Sennett, who's fantastic, and Cooper
Hoffman, who's brilliant.
Like, do you do you like to keep an ear to the ground when it comes to finding like new
and exciting upcoming actors and talent?
Is that something that you sort of make a concerted effort to do?

(29:12):
I mean, certainly, but more than anything, I work with brilliant casting directors.
And you know, whether it was, you know, the mini Marin, who I worked through my first
film, Suzanne Smith, and then over the you know, I've done a bunch of movies now with
John Papstadera, who's been extraordinary about revealing new talent to me and constantly

(29:34):
saying, hey, you got to see this new person.
And it's a joy.
It's obviously it's a joy, because look, there's one side of directing which we're
look, it's a thrill to work with someone that you're already a fan of a dozen of their
movies.
And you know, a lot of their moves.
And you're excited to see them use their moves with, you know, your film, your dialogue.

(29:56):
But it's a whole other thing to be completely surprised to watch someone you know nothing
about who you're still watching them figure out the machinery internally, and take all
these moves that they use in their real life and applying them to screen for the first
time.
And and it creates a really interesting conversation about who they are, who they want to be as

(30:24):
as actors, how they want to how they want to be portrayed.
Do they have a process?
What is the process?
Are they trying different, you know, Ansel and Timothy were both figuring out what kind
of process they wanted to have as actors as we were working on men, women and children.
And I saw them try different things throughout it.
And there's a sense of play to them.

(30:44):
Because they haven't been scared out of certain angles, they haven't been scared out of trying
things that haven't been let down by other films or filmmakers.
So there's a certain fearlessness because they're just so thrilled to be on the screen.
It's so interesting what you said there, because I think that not only applies to the young
actors that you've worked with in general, but so many of the you know, the I guess the
veteran actors and the older actors that you worked with, I mean, particularly in that film.

(31:06):
I mean, Adam Sandler, who delivers such an interesting performance in that film, especially
if you look at the context of his career at that time, like he had done, you know, I guess
funny people by that point.
And obviously, of course, Punch, Strangler, which actually I mean, I've shot here, I have
a framed Punch Strangler poster.
I'm a huge fan of that film.
It's one of the best.
It's just literally one of the best movies of all time.
It's fantastic.
Fabulous, isn't it?

(31:26):
And he is so, you know, such a brilliant study of just restraint and fear in that film.
And when I was watching Wounded Children, I did think, you know, I was thinking back
to things like Barry Egan and Punch Strangler and how and that scene near the end of his
wife where he he's so quiet in that film.
And I guess normally, you know, you don't we don't think of him as a quiet performer,

(31:47):
a quiet actor, even in more dramatic stuff like Uncut Gems that he would do later.
You know, he can he can go big, but he can also go small.
And I guess when you were directing him in that film, were you thinking about were you
sort of did you have sort of conscious references in your mind like, OK, maybe now I've seen
you know, you'd seen Punch Strangler and maybe that was sort of a reference for you.
Or did you just you and Adam sort of work on it just completely organically like, OK,

(32:08):
no reference point.
Let's just find the character.
Yeah, so interesting about Adam is he's so well studied and people don't really talk
about that.
I'm not sure how aware people are of that.
I've never had an actor read the source material as much as Adam Sandler read the book Men,

(32:32):
Women and Children and would talk to me about details of the book and details of the character
and whether we were going to try things that were in the book that were not in the script.
Adam talked to me early on about the script, about the fact that he had one child that
should his character have two children, should he have a dog, should he have other elements
of a family that can react off each other.
That would come daily, having read not only the scene that we were going to shoot that

(32:56):
day, but the pages of the book that we were going to shoot that day.
And was there a reason why I didn't include this or that?
He was about to go do that Western and he was also simultaneously watching every Western
that had ever been made.
I don't think people assume this about Adam.
I think the assumption is that he's brilliantly funny, spontaneous and obviously kind and

(33:19):
that he just kind of reacts in the moment and that he's funny.
What people don't see is the guy who works and studies and thinks and kills himself to
get it right.
So, by the time I was having my first conversations and he had thought a lot about the character
and it's not like this painful like three hour conversation about like what is the hidden

(33:45):
meaning of this character.
He's just thinking about what would make the movie the best, what would make the character
the best, what would make the story the best.
And he's effortlessly loving to everyone around him.
He's a joy.
I always get that impression from him, from his stand up or from the people who talk about
working with him or his films.
He seems like a generally gregarious chap.

(34:06):
I guess I get a more trivial question.
Not because it's to Sandler or that film specifically, but I guess going back to your films with
Diablo and forgive the triviality of this question.
Please.
Are you a Diablo big makers mark fans?
Because like in every script that she writes and I feel like there's always something that
wherever a character like Charlize in the end or you know, you know, a joke about ordering

(34:29):
a makers mark straight up, you know, for and it's just going back watching.
I was like, I really want to sample a makers mark now.
Is bourbon your guys sort of typical choice makers mark?
Is that your favorite?
I do love bourbon, but that is absolutely a Diablo trademark.
And I've never actually asked her about why I just know that she loves it and it shows

(34:49):
up in the scripts and I honor it.
So you're telling me that when you were standing in your kitchen reading the Juno, you got
to page 12 and you're, you know, you're like, Oh, I'll circle that.
I'll circle.
You know, it's so funny.
I came to all of that stuff so late in life.
I tried pot the first time at 30.
I started drinking, you know, for the first time really in my thirties.
And I just came late to everything.

(35:10):
I was a, I was a genuine AV club nerd and didn't go to any parties and really never
tried anything until much later in life.
Oh, well better late than ever, I guess.
I mean, Hey, you appreciate the choir there.
So I guess touching up, can we mention them earlier?
Eric Steelberg was such a sort of important collaborator of yours and he shot all of your
films through Juno.

(35:32):
I know you guys have known each other for a long time going back before you'd worked
together, I want to say.
And your films with him have such a specific and sort of tactile look.
I mean, I know you guys like to use a wide lenses, like 16 by nine aspect ratio.
And there's a, there's a great sense of warmth and light to the palette that you guys create.
I mean, I guess classically, I think of sort of the autumnal colors of something like Juno

(35:54):
or in Tully the scenes with the, you know, where Charlize is just, is spending time with
her son or her daughter doing the karaoke scene.
And as the golden sunlight coming through the window, or even in something like, you
know, the front runner, which is a very different kind of color palette and is much steelier
and much more minimal.
And same with Young Adult, that film feels very sort of minimalistic and stripped down

(36:15):
and stripped back and cooler.
And I guess just wanted to ask, what is it about Eric that makes it such a special collaboration
for you with him and what are the conversations you guys have when you create the looks of
your films?
Yeah, it's really interesting.
You know, when I think about the strength of our relationship, and I've known Eric and
I've known each other since we were both 15 years old, we had to be dropped off at our

(36:37):
first short film that we worked on together.
It actually has nothing to do with lenses or camera system or film grain or color palette.
It has everything to do with the strength of our relationship and our bond as storytellers.
That's what we talk about.
That's what we talk about the most.

(36:57):
And we try to create a kind of collection of imagery that feels true to the story that
we're telling.
So as we approach a movie, we begin to watch other films together.
We'll sit here at my house and we'll just put on movies and we'll freeze frame and we'll
talk about certain shots and what's working, what isn't.
And a lot of it is, oh, the hair is great there or the production design is great there.

(37:22):
A great question is always like, do I like how this looks or is the production design
just good?
And we'll talk about that because the lighting can be really clean and it's just the production
design is really what's giving its look.
But we try to come up with some simple truths about how the film is going to look and then
we try to hold each other to them throughout the process.

(37:43):
And you're right, young adult had a very cool Scandinavian look almost like our messaging
to each other was always like, let's make it more Swedish.
And then on Front Runner and this new Saturday Night film, it's really Michael Richie.

(38:05):
It's really the candidate.
And these movies from the early 70s that felt hyper real, you feel the grain, you can almost
feel the camera on someone's shoulder.
There's a lifelike-ness to it that makes it that.
It never feels smooth, it never feels like it's on tracks.

(38:26):
All we're always talking about is how does the lens reflect what's happening in the story?
And it's funny because in between Front Runner and SNL, we did a Ghostbusters movie that
really was meant to look like an Amblin movie.
Eric went off and shot Ahsoka in the Star Wars universe in the volume.
Eric can do anything.

(38:46):
I mean, the man's just genuinely brilliant.
He's a pilot.
And he's the guy who can screw taking apart a toaster, he could probably take apart a
nuclear warhead and put it back together.
And I envy his brilliance and I lean on it all the time.
But our storytelling partnership, our bond, our brotherhood comes from the love of telling

(39:08):
a story first.
And then we get into all the other shit.
Yeah, is that storytelling ability that you guys have?
I mean, you guys obviously have a shorthand.
And it was interesting when I was revisiting your films, the trajectory, I guess, of the
filmmaking.
It did feel, and you've made, you know, I believe it's nine films at this point.
And the confidence, I mean, because you mentioned the Front Runner, the confidence that I saw

(39:32):
that developed over the course of those films.
Like you get something, so you get by the time you get something like the Front Runner
and Tully, which both came out the same year, which by the way, that sounds like a hella
busy, you know, period to be in this two movies.
It was a great time.
Yeah, but the confidence I saw in terms of the length of your takes, you know, certain
shots, you know, using tracking shots and sort of more, I guess, the filmmaking techniques

(39:55):
felt continuously more adventurous.
Each film, you know, you were, I guess, challenging yourself with another sort of technique or
like, you know, like in the Front Runner, you're using much more zoom lenses and you've
got these incredibly choreographed tracking shots, like the opening shot with the news
broadcasts and the crowds and then, you know, the 360 pan of Hugh Jackman throwing the axe.
And all that stuff.

(40:15):
And then, and the choreography of that, you know, that you and Eric are obviously having
to work out with the crew and the cast.
And then going up through to Ghostbusters where you're directing, you know, a spectacle
blockbuster.
You're directing a blockbuster, which of course I know was new ground for you.
I mean, did you feel a kind of, that was a culmination of like, you know, did you feel
from film to film a growing confidence in your ability to tell a story?

(40:37):
You know how it only reflects itself as weirdly, I'm going to use a weird metaphor, sorry.
It's like taking Winnebago trips.
The first time you take a Winnebago trip and you hop in the motor home and you think you
need everything.
So you just, you stock it full with everything you might need while you're camping.

(40:57):
And the more trips you take, you're like, I don't need this.
I don't need that.
We'll just use this.
And that's how filmmaking is.
Filmmaking is, I think first, my first film, you're just shooting so much coverage because
you're like, I may need this.
I may need that.
I'm going to need this shot.
I'm going to have that shot.
What if I need this?
I've got all these different closeups.
I get all these different inserts.
And the more you make movies, the more you realize we're going to use this.

(41:19):
I'll do this.
I'll have this one backup shot.
And then maybe I'll get this one insert just in case I need a little bit of coverage.
But like you, you just get better at knowing what you're going to need and how to stay
truer to the total line you're trying to hit.
As a result, you should be able to shoot faster and you just don't have to put as much in
the Winnebago.
I mean, speaking of Ghostbusters on that subject, I mean, that was, I mean, because of course,

(41:46):
up to that point, I think that's fair to say that was the biggest movie in terms of scale,
I guess, in terms of sheer scale.
Not in terms of personal scale, but I guess technical scale that you would attempt.
And you pulled it off and the film came together and it was people and people really liked
that film.
And I've heard incredibly emotional responses to that film and the soul of it, especially
with Harold Ramis and the continuation, the handing of the baton through to the next generation

(42:11):
of the characters.
And I mean, having made, I guess, successfully made an emotional blockbuster that still felt
like one of your films.
I mean, do you think that's something now that you, is that a sort of form of filmmaking
that you'd go back to ever in the future?
Do you think you'd rather return to the more intimate, smaller, independent roots and style
that you, I guess, up to that point had been making the films in?

(42:34):
It's really interesting, right?
When I think of Afterlife, I oddly don't think of it as a spectacle.
Because what I think about is this personal story I wanted to tell that I obviously had
many personal reasons to tell.
I think of a family finding an abandoned farm and everything they discover there and the

(42:57):
personal journey that they're on as they discover the mysteries of their past and try to become
a complete family again.
And what it was like to tell the story of the passing of a baton with my father sitting
next to me the whole time.
That was the experience.
I don't know how I could replicate that, whether it was in the Marvel Universe or the DC Universe

(43:18):
or any universe.
I'm sure there's another personal story out there that I want to tell that requires a
big budget and large sets and has a thousand visual effects shots.
It's intimidating.
The idea of a movie having to make that kind of money back is always scary.

(43:40):
But there was never a part of me that said it's time to tell a big story.
All I knew was it was time to tell this story with my father.
And that's why I made it.
Well, I think that is something that you do capture in your films, the sense of emotional
truth.
It's something that is so impressive, but also the fact that you plead to that as a

(44:01):
standard as a filmmaker, but also the fact that you challenge yourself as a filmmaker.
If you look back at the films that you've made, the stories, so many of those films,
they don't clash at all, but they're so different.
Each one tends to...
It's not like you're...
I don't feel you're a filmmaker who has ever really repeated himself.
And I think of something like Labor Day, followed by Men, Women and Children, all proceeded

(44:26):
by your films.
And it's like there's almost no comparison to be made.
But you're a filmmaker who has continuously...
I feel that seems to...
You've tried to challenge yourself as a storyteller.
You're not...
It doesn't seem to me that you're satisfied of just falling back on the old...
I guess playing the old riffs, playing the hits in terms of...

(44:47):
I know this will work.
Something like Labor Day, which was such a departure for you in many ways, is certainly
in terms about the filmmaking.
I mean, of course, because the young adult, as we said, is scrappier, more lo-fi, hand
held, Scandinavian.
And Labor Day, which is not Scandinavian at all.
No, not at all.

(45:10):
Not at all.
Desperately attempting to do Terrence Malick and failing.
We grow up.
That's just it.
We grow up, we change, we evolve and different questions gnaw at the back of our brains.

(45:31):
And so I find I'm attracted to different new stories because I got new questions that are
burrowing away.
We get married, we have kids, we get divorced.
Each one of these huge steps in life kind of wipes clear some of the questions that were

(45:52):
ailing you before and brings whole new ones.
And there's things that we've been trying to solve for thousands of years of human development
and we still haven't figured out.
Figured out how to really just be in a relationship.
We haven't figured out just how to be parents.
We haven't figured out how to make our lives feel meaningful.

(46:14):
We have kind of short quick fixes to things and we certainly have lessons that we teach
from generation to generation but we're still like holistically trying to solve these questions.
And each one of us is bothered by a kind of a different tendril of it.
And so I feel like when I'm looking at the work of other directors I see them trying
to solve those questions for themselves.

(46:36):
I mean speaking of other directors because I was thinking as I was watching the films
and also researching them, I know because the filmmakers that you like you mentioned
Terence Malick, you're obviously a big fan of him.
And of course who's phenomenal.
But also because I feel like when I was watching up in the air especially I was thinking but

(46:58):
also your films like Thank You for Smoking and Tully.
I felt that sort of I feel like there's an artistic kinship with filmmakers such as like
Alexander Payne who I know you're a big fan of who has that you know who likes to explore
a kind of Americana which is kind of which is spiky and sort of subversive but also doesn't
compromise the kind of apple pie sort of surface of it.

(47:19):
Like you know there's a kind of sort of not I love hate but there's a there's a real sort
of almost feels like an affection for a kind of form of American person or American kind
of living or style and then you know you go into that and you unpick it and you realize
and you find I wouldn't go so far as to say like maybe I would go as far as the rotten
apple core at the center of it.
Like something like election like do you and I know you guys also share a share the composer

(47:43):
and Rolf Kent for a long time like you know he's scored two principles of both of your
films.
I mean are you guys like friendly?
Are you a fan of his films?
Do you you know do you see any sort of like a creative overlap and crossover between the
two of you back and forth?
I mean certainly I'm a huge admirer of his and I feel lucky that we're friends and we
get to talk about movies.
He happened to be at Telluride for the first three premieres of my first three films and

(48:06):
that's something I'll always take away with me.
There's a few directors like that.
I think it's directors like you know Alexander, I mean Andrea Arnold, Sean Baker.
I mean I think these filmmakers are just kind of untouchable as far as their ability to
capture truth.
The way that they put people on screen that I've never seen before and they find a way

(48:30):
to get me to dig deep inside my own heart to think about what kind of person I am.
What do I want to change about myself?
Can I even possibly change?
Am I doomed to be the same person forever?
And they do it in an entertaining way that makes me laugh and where the cinematography
is gorgeous in a very unconventional way.
I mean look, Denis Villeneuve shoots the lights out and like I'll never be able to shoot you

(48:54):
know if I worked a hundred years on one movie I couldn't get it to look as good as one of
his movies you know that he seems to put out in a year.
But there's an unconventional beauty to the way that directors like Andrea Arnold, Sean
Baker, Alexander Stutt that is stunning.
Effortlessly subtly stunning and that for me is the out of reach goal that I would love

(49:24):
to just get like a fingertip on.
Yeah because I know those guys primarily like Alexander Payne primarily makes you know I
guess movies of a smaller scale and smaller budget.
Yeah of course someone like Denis or Christopher Nolan and I guess there's that M. Night Shyamalan
quote which I love which is like you know when he comes to me when he's making a film
the idea for him is like sushi.

(49:44):
It's like the best ingredients at the I guess the smallest quality.
So it's more like the best ingredients.
Fewest but best ingredients and there's like a simplicity in that but also that transcends
for some of the parts I guess because when you work on a smaller budget when you're working
on a smaller scale you have to be inventive and you have to sort of and you have to put

(50:04):
things together that probably wouldn't normally I guess if there was time and millions and
millions and millions of dollars you would you could just go and grab that but no you
have to be inventive I guess and so and making a film not only just making a storybook but
as you say making a film look you know tactile and beautiful it's you know yeah you have
to be inventive.
I'm so pumped for his next film.

(50:26):
The trailer for Trap is so cool and I love that he has Josh Hartnett in a leading role.
I didn't realize how much I kind of needed Josh Hartnett back.
I'm genuinely pumped to see that.
Hartnett's having a great I feel like we're at the beginning of a Hartnett Renaissance
here because you know it was because I feel like he was he was he had his sort of initial
sort of the height of his initial popularity hours a while ago and then he kind of seems

(50:48):
to have sort of faded away a little bit and now you know he seems to be really coming
back which is of course always great to see when someone that you know that you admire
makes a big comeback.
Yeah there's a ton of movies right now there's a lot of great trailers out now that I'm really
excited about.
It's it's going to be a good fall.
What are the things that you're sort of most I guess most pumped for besides Shyamalan?

(51:10):
The Sean Baker trailer I mean is insane.
I just like like sign me up I cannot wait.
I love the Bob Dylan trailer that just dropped was gorgeous.
Yeah I know I think James Mangold is you know I think as far as kind of storytelling control
I mean there's very few I think who compare to him.

(51:31):
Obviously the that Nosferatu trailer is insane and you know take it purchased.
There's a few the Lego that Lego Pharrell Williams looks like a joy like I just know
I'm gonna have a good time watching that.
I'm finally gonna see Twisters today I'm very pumped for that.
Oh are you seeing it in IMAX like a 4DX are you going with full hogging you're gonna see

(51:54):
it with all the I can't go 4DX I'm just I'm sorry but I always saw and I saw Deadpool
Wolverine last night.
I have not laughed that much in I don't remember the last time I laughed that hard in a film.
Oh wonderful I haven't seen it yet I haven't got around to it yet.

(52:14):
Do you think as a filmmaker that you've as you've gone along again going right back to
the start with something like Thank You for Smoking where I think your love of film and
style is sort of on display in every single shot and then as you sort of I do think as
you've gone along you've sort of I guess maybe this is due to confidence or maybe just in
terms of your own personal sort of taste when it comes to making film.
Do you feel like you've become more invisible?

(52:35):
I hope so.
Well it was well when I was watching Young Adult which was when I really I was really
noticing this particularly was the fact that the it felt so much like the directing was
invisible it felt like you're you felt like you were taking a step back and you were what
you wanted to do instead was just let the characters and the actors guide the story
and guide the filmmaking I guess in some ways guide you and that felt like something that

(52:58):
sort of again developed and like that was that came out.
A thousand percent.
A thousand percent and that's been a big goal of mine over the last two decades is how do
I become invisible as a filmmaker?
How do you feel my hand less and less for so many reasons?
I mean one I think there's kind of a certain vanity to a filmmaking that says look at me

(53:18):
but also filmmaking is a magic trick a magic trick of trying to get someone to emotionally
feel something they otherwise wouldn't feel and at the most surprising moment and the
more you feel the director's hand the more you know oh I'm being manipulated the less
you feel them in the director's hand this is when I point to someone like Andrea Arnold
whose hand seems so invisible and yet she's getting you to feel all these complex things

(53:43):
that for me is exhilarating you know or even like Richard Linklater with that before series
before sunrise you know before sunset and midnight his hand becomes more and more invisible
and yet he gets you to feel more and more.
I thought it was ironic though that that sort of sense I guess of sort of more restrained
invisible directing that felt like kind of like a development of maturity if you like

(54:07):
but it is ironic that that happened on a film on like Young Adult which is all about stunted
growth and all about you know not being able to let go of the past and yet it felt like
a real maturity I guess as well also with Diablo and her writing and her storytelling
that it felt like you guys were really not only flexing your muscles but really sort
of growing beyond what you were doing which is so exciting to see as a viewer as well

(54:31):
if you're consuming whatever it is you're consuming whether it's film or music you know
you want the artists that you like and the story tellers that you want you'd like to
see them you know change and grow and which is what I felt.
It happens with watching more too right you know you know if you if you asked me when
I was 13 you know what's the most brilliant movie ever made I'd probably say Die Hard

(54:52):
and it's still in my top you know 20 probably but right around the time of Young Adult I
would probably you know give you a full monologue on why Lucas Moody's sin is you know is a
you know is a God living on earth so it's just it you evolve as you watch new things
and I wasn't someone who had watched every movie ever made at the age of 16 like I think

(55:18):
much like you know drinking alcohol it came to me slowly and through different chapters
of my life I have gotten to fall in love with different you know parts of cinema and there's
places that I really still haven't even cracked the surface on so I've watching movies has
been like a lifelong journey for me.
Same I mean like the thing with film is that is all of course there's always going to be

(55:39):
more to watch there's never like it's a it's a it's a it's like a swimming pool where you
can't really touch the bottom of it unless maybe Martin Scorsese you'd be watching and
you've watched every film but every film pre 1980 it seems but like certainly right I think
he's like the one the one guy you've maybe used is coming up on you know well you know
Quentin and you know you're right and Eli Roth are probably all giving him a run for

(56:01):
his money I always presume that those guys have seen literally everything that's ever
been made and have an encyclopedic knowledge of every shot that's in all those films.
I look I'm definitely I'm a slower watcher I come to it later and I have a horrible memory
so in a weird way it's the ideas end up kind of sticking to film more deep in my subconscious

(56:25):
and they pop up at unexpected moments.
You say you have a terrible memory I mean do you do you are you on letterbox?
Do you use letterbox as like a sort of do you log it do you log films on there like
is that something that you're just to?
I've started to I've started to try to log everything I've ever seen and it's it's a
wild process and and by the way I'm not sure if this happens to you and maybe not because

(56:46):
you're younger every once in a while I'm like have I seen that like there's these moments
where movie like particularly movies that they came out like in the 90s early 2000s
where I was watching you know God knows how many movies a day where I'm pretty sure I
saw that horror film that came out for a week you know that maybe I don't know.

(57:10):
Yeah no I have the exact same thing and sometimes occasionally I will you know I will cheat
because I'll watch the movie when I was like six years old just and you know just happened
to be on television and I'll then I'll find it and I'm like I think that counts I think
that counts yeah I guess now having because having obviously done your last one was Ghost
of the Afterlife which was you know a success and you know it's and people really you know

(57:33):
took it to the hearts and and then it obviously spawned Frozen Empire and you know you and
Gill have really it those two films back to back it really you know it came together and
you pulled off I mean and now your next one was SNL 1975 did it feel a bit like okay we've
done Afterlife that's almost I know that that was a personal story for you that you want
to tell you and your dad but did it always feel a little bit like hey that's that's one

(57:54):
for them and now I get to make SNL 1975 which I know you co-wrote with Gill I mean is that
was that sort of like a passion project that you guys were really keen on on telling as
well?
Absolutely.
I've wanted to tell the story for a long time it's something that's been like kicking away
in my brain and I felt like after after Ghostbusters I had earned it and I wanted to tell the story

(58:15):
but only if we could do it at the highest level which included rebuilding the entire
eighth and ninth floor of Rockefeller Center in 1975 having you know 80 speaking roles
oftentimes 40 on the same day all mic'd simultaneously it was a very complicated endeavor not easy
to pull off and required the support of a real studio and after Ghostbusters Sony really

(58:40):
stepped up and they got the vision and they went for it and we went down to Atlanta and
it built something that was extraordinary it was it was an amazing shoot.
It sounds like it was yeah so an ambitious shoot then I mean was that something that
you felt like more after Ghostbusters that obviously you've got all this the spectacle
of Ghostbusters and mounting that production like now you're you know yeah you're recreating

(59:00):
a period which I know you've done before with things like Labor Day and Thank You for Smoking
is set you know is not is set before you know when it came out.
Honestly I made this movie called The Frontrunner that was about the 1988 presidential election
and that was probably the best education and how to do one of these movies about how to
make something feel hyper real to portray a large group of people where you're not going

(59:25):
to get proper interest every single person but you just are kind of tossed into an environment
and have to understand everything that's happening around you in real time and a movie where
you're not going to understand everything actually that's going to be happening some
things are going to fly by you but that's what it feels like to be in you know the belly
of the beast and you know you've been on a film set you know what it's like you know

(59:47):
there's there's a hundred people moving in different directions you could possibly tell
say what they're all doing but they all have a common goal and I've been at SNL you know
I got to do a guest writing job there for a week back in 2010 and it was one of the
greatest weeks of my life and I think ever since then I wanted to make a film that captured

(01:00:09):
the energy of 90 minutes to show time.
You I mean I guess another question is because I know you and Jake.
I'm sorry so this will have to be the last one and I'm gonna hop off.
Yeah of course no worries I guess quickly then I mean because I know JK Simmons you
have a real you know you guys work together I think he's been in every single film you've
made I want to say like you know you guys are in one way or another yeah in one way
either over the phone or like or every camera is he is he coming back for SNL 75 is he is

(01:00:33):
he there is he is he in the mix?
Oh yeah absolutely he plays Milton Berle and he's absolutely brilliant there's literally
no one who could have done it as well as he did.
I was really lucky that I met JK back on Thank You for Smoking and it felt like someone who
just understood my sense of humor understood my voice and felt like family in many ways.

(01:00:55):
I look at scripts and books thinking okay who's JK gonna play and when I met Damien
Chazelle and we started talking about Whiplash I think maybe the only thing that I did on
that film was say oh it's gotta be JK Simmons and I made that phone call and otherwise I'm
just lucky to have my name on it frankly.

(01:01:15):
I adore JK and I hope he's in every movie I ever make.
So what you're saying is that you're on some level responsible for his Oscar win having
made that call to get him in that movie I guess?
No no no that is a hundred percent the result of JK and Damien's brilliance but sometimes

(01:01:35):
you know you get to be close to these things that I know you're kidding around but like
it feels really special to be close to that kind of talent at the moment where they're
making something that's just lights out that you know that's an old timer.
I felt really lucky to be close to that.
I felt really lucky to be close to Karen as she was making Jennifer's body.

(01:01:58):
Those are moments where I just feel lucky to be in the car.
Wonderful.
Well I think that's a lovely note to end it on Jason.
I'll let you go.
I realize I've kept you like I say a bit longer than we usually said so sorry about that.
I could obviously keep chatting to you all day because you know I love your films and
I love your filmmaking and what can I say I'm super stoked for the next one.
Thanks again for chatting to me.

(01:02:18):
I love this conversation.
I love your love for cinema and it just kind of exudes from you and I saw at the moment
I met you and it's a genuine pleasure to talk to you.
Next time I get to ask all the questions.
Nice one.
I apologize as well for not you know I haven't eaten any Cheetos since that day.
That was the last time I've eaten Cheetos.

(01:02:38):
I don't know what the next time will be.
Basically all that me and Jason first met all we did was chat movies and eat Cheetos
for like a good hour.
Next time Cheetos are on me.

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