Hate to Interrupt - EP 018 | Joel Haver discussion & Brazil

In Episode 18 of Hate to Interrupt, we dive into the surreal dystopia of Terry Gilliam’s Brazil, a film that blends bureaucratic nightmares with dark comedy and stunning visuals. We break down what makes this cult classic so enduring, its influence on sci-fi, and why it still resonates today.

But that’s just the beginning—our discussion takes a turn into the experimental as we analyze YouTuber Joel Haver’s ambitious "12 Movies in 12 Months" challenge. What defines a movie? Do his films push the boundaries of traditional filmmaking, or do they redefine what it means to tell a story? We debate Haver’s impact on modern indie cinema and whether his work holds up as true "movies" in the conventional sense.

From visionary dystopias to breaking cinematic rules, this episode is all about challenging the way we think about film. Tune in and join the conversation!

• VHSGUY
• Stop Culture
• TimJongUn
• Ghoulif

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Hate to Interrupt Podcast, the number

(00:17):
one 1984 theme podcast in the world.
It is I, George Orwell from Brazil.
And I'm Culture Nick.
I'm Nick from Stop Culture.
I'm VHS guy Nick.
Hello.
And I'm Gullif.
Wait, Gullif, you have to say, tell everyone your first name.
My first name is Ethan.

(00:37):
I'm Ethan.
See, it sounds wrong if I go like, like you, yours is great Nick.
If you go, I'm Nick from Stop Culture, because Stop Culture sounds like a brand name.
Whereas Gullif just sounds like a fantasy creature.
So I'm like, I'm Jeff from Gryffindor or whatever, you know.
Well I'm Gullif.
Mine's kind of the same.

(00:57):
Gullif is your middle name though, right?
Yep.
That's me, Ethan.
That's actually how I have you saved in my phone.
I have Gullif as a general name.
Yeah, Ethan Gullif Rogers.
Oh, he just doxed him.
He just doxed his ass.
I just doxed your ass right there.
It's not that hard to find.
Tim's going to swat your ass with that info.

(01:17):
But anyway.
I'm going to sniper wolf your ass.
So for this episode, we want to get into a debate that we were having in our podcast
group chat about one specific YouTuber and his journey over the past 12 months, Joel

(01:39):
Haver, to make one film every month of the year in 2024, which he succeeded at.
And Nick, it was mostly Nick and Ethan that were arguing about this, but I just wanted
to set the stage.
So yeah, I feel like we're making it sound like this is a group discussion, but let's
be real.
This is a fight between Ethan and VHS, Nick.

(02:01):
I'm just here to enjoy the show and just see some fisticuffs.
Let me just lay the groundwork.
So Joel Haver, filmmaker YouTuber, in 2024, he put himself out for the challenge to make
12 feature length films with him by the end of the year.
And he did that.
He made 12 videos.

(02:22):
And then this fucking guy over here is like, hold on, hold on, hold on.
They're not real films.
He made 12 very long YouTube videos for sure.
I agree.
That's some bullshit.
That's some bullshit.
That's cold.
Nick, what would you define as what is a movie?
Okay.
What is a film?
So they are movies, technically.

(02:43):
Okay, there we go.
But they just don't feel like movies.
That's all I was saying.
They genuinely don't have a movie feel.
They're not very cinematic.
He doesn't hire cinematographers for a large majority of them.
What does a movie feel though?
Yeah.
It doesn't feel like a movie and then just end up there.
There's a very cinematic look that films have.
And even a lot of YouTubers can uphold.
If you've seen channels like Almost Friday TV, all their sketches are of way higher quality

(03:09):
than Joel Haver's as far as aesthetics.
The sketch that Almost Friday did about making fun of the intros to Netflix stand-up comedians,
that was fucking-
I looked amazing and it was so funny.
I'll definitely give them that.
I love Joel Haver.
I think he's a great YouTuber.
I've watched his videos for years.

(03:30):
But I think he should have put more time and effort and made less movies.
That's really my main point.
So you're going quality over quantity?
100%.
Well, I don't even understand how quantity makes them less movies.
I understand their shits out, some fucking disaster every year, but those count as movies.

(03:51):
So what about those are so different to say like Joel Haver films?
I didn't get a chance to watch all of them.
I'm familiar enough with Joel Haver to know that there's a personality behind these films
at the end of the day.
There's someone who's really passionate.
You can see that through a lot of the production value and a lot of the writing and performing

(04:12):
and stuff.
They're just as much movies as anything else.
I'm really the type of person to be as liberal as I can with the term art.
These are just as much art as any other Hollywood production.
Who the fuck cares if it took him a month to make each movie for 12 months?
It is what it is.

(04:33):
There's something you just said that is sort of my point.
That's that he's a very big personality and he has a lot of himself in these films, right?
Which I agree with.
I think there's a lot of him in these movies and I think that they're very much his style
of humor, which is kind of like dry, weird humor.
But if somebody didn't know who he was, nobody would like these movies.

(04:57):
I agree with that.
I don't even think that's true.
I didn't watch all of them.
I watched a little bit of some of it.
I think he wouldn't have as much of a reach, obviously, because that's how I think.
I think if these were showing at a film festival, they would be not near placing in any way,
shape, or form.
And also, no, think about it this way, guys.

(05:18):
If any one of us decided to do that with channels being our size, like sub 10K, it would be
the same reaction that Nick is talking about right now.
It would do nothing.
Nobody's going to watch those movies unless they're coming from a big YouTuber they already
know.
I mean, sure.
But I mean, you guys are trying to measure success as the amount of people, which I think

(05:40):
I don't think honestly, Joel was making movies before he was popular and was just doing it
because he wanted to do it.
The fame came afterwards.
So I don't know.
I don't really know what the argument is.
My argument is that I think it's kind of pointless to put these time constraints on art.

(06:00):
I have personal experience with that.
I was telling you guys, I joined a songwriting club.
There was like 30 songwriters in New York City.
And the whole point of it was to make an entire new song by each Thursday of the week.
You had to submit it by 12.
There was a deadline.
And if you didn't do it, you would get kicked out of the group.

(06:21):
I did it for 52 weeks, an entire year.
And I had 52 songs by the end of it.
And I only ever released one of those songs because I was just trying to get it done without
really focusing on it and taking my time with it.
Only one of them was really something I could salvage and release to the public.

(06:44):
I just wish he has so many resources available, so many favors he can call in, so much he
can do.
And this is the best he can do.
So I had watched three of the movies.
I watched The Diarrhea Brothers Saved the Day.
I watched Love Celeste.
And I watched Coming Home.
And I went back and watched another one, which was Your Point Girl.

(07:05):
I haven't seen any of those ones yet.
So I wasn't impressed by a single one of them.
I've given him a shot.
I don't understand what the...
I'm sure he should feel proud of himself.
It doesn't matter if you don't think they're good.
That doesn't matter.
That's not the question.
The question isn't did you like them?

(07:27):
The question is are they movies?
Are they film?
Then yeah.
But they're just as much films as anything else.
Why make films at all?
They're not all perfect.
I'm saying like, oh, why make 12 movies in 12 months when you can make three?
But that's not the point.
He did it because he wanted to and he could.
Yeah.
So listen, my point obviously...
The point he did, the point was that he wanted to do a gimmick.

(07:47):
It's a gimmick.
I can make 12 movies in a year.
He said, I want to challenge myself by trying to see if I can do 12 in a single year because
he has...
Because he wants to make ad revenue on 12 videos instead of fucking one video.
That's some bullshit.
He took fucking a hit this year.
He took so much...
He got so much less money.
He's like, I've just been living off Patreon money for the last year, basically just paying

(08:10):
the people to be in his films as friends to take time off work.
He used to make one short film every week or a short skit, whatever you want to call
them.
And he was making so much money.
And then he's like, well, I have been in a comfortable position where I want to just
make as much feature...
As many movies as I possibly can and challenge myself.
I'm going to be making less money.
So you can't say he's doing it to try to profit because he's making significantly less money.

(08:34):
I don't think it's purely about profit.
Yeah.
He also just straight up said he made a video before he took on this challenge where he
was like, look, I'm not going to make as much money as I did because I'm making 12 videos
in 12 months instead of how many videos he makes per week or something like that.
So he's not doing it out of...
Is it a gimmick?
Sure.
You could say that, but it's still something he wanted to do.

(08:55):
It's still an artistic challenge he's putting himself to go through.
And he ended up doing it.
Whether or not those movies are good at the end of the day, that doesn't matter.
What matters is he put himself in a creative endeavor and he followed through.
And that's more than most people can say.
Most people could say, hey, I want to start a band or, hey, I want to write a novel or,

(09:18):
hey, I want to do this and that.
But they just don't end up doing it.
He did it and you got to give him respect for that.
And these are just as much movies as anything else that comes out of Hollywood.
When it comes to art and just cinema or whatever these days, that is as open-ended as whatever

(09:38):
you want.
And in my perspective, from my worldview, these movies are just as much film and these
films are just as much part of the craft of filmmaking and our art as literally anything
else that comes out in theaters that we pay money to go see.
No, Tim, Tim, we have an arbiter on this and it's Martin Scorsese.

(09:58):
So if Martin Scorsese says it's a real movie, it's a real movie.
I think Marty would be on my side.
I honestly think so.
He's like, no Marvel movies?
They don't suck.
Listen here, even if he's making a movie a month, why is he not hiring a cinematographer,
like good sound department, like people who are actually can like, he could bring more

(10:22):
people in to show off their work.
It's not even just about his own work.
Like he could bring in other people who could like show their craft if he's making 12 movies.
There's not that much film work right now.
He likes doing the cinematography on his own.
He has said that he likes doing that and he likes the way he can shoot it.
And I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with his sound mixing.
I think it's fine.

(10:42):
Like it's perfectly serviceable.
He knows what he's doing.
And you can give him like a million dollars and I'm sure he could make a technically perfect
movie, but I don't think he really cares about that.
He's like, I just want to make a movie.
And then when I'm done with that, I want to go make another movie.
Like, maybe I just, maybe I just respect that less than you all do or something.

(11:05):
I mean, I think that's fucking, here's the thing you can, there is like, sorry, there
is such a gatekeeping and level like high barrier of entry that is just like, it's not
real.
But it's this like perception we've created around what a movie is where people in Hollywood
are like, wow, look how cheap this movie is.

(11:27):
And it's a million fucking dollars.
And it's like, you'll never see a million dollars in your life, but that's considered
super low budget where the general public, general person, anybody that's wanting to
create a movie in their entire life will look at that and go like, well, I can't make a
movie because Hollywood says so, or all of this stuff says so.
Whereas if you look at any other art form, like painting or writing, I don't think that

(11:51):
you can just go.
I mean, I think there is a paper and write a story.
You can go pick up a paintbrush and make a painting.
A five year old can draw a picture with a crayon and that's considered, oh, look at
this little piece of artwork my kid made.
But for films, no, that's not okay.
They want us to have a level of gatekeeping on it.
I just think it's nobody can stop you from making, nobody can stop you from making a

(12:11):
movie.
My whole point is he is a person that has so many resources at his hand, like at his
fingertips so he could break that, he could break that seal.
Like you know what I mean?
And if he, if he actually made something good, that would stand out and make a difference.
But these movies aren't going to make a difference for fucking anything because they're not good.
I mean, they might be inspiring for young, up and coming filmmakers.

(12:33):
Yeah, they're, it's inspiring for young, up and coming filmmakers who are like, look, maybe
I can't make a movie because I need this amount of money or I need to work with this specific
amount of crew members who can do this and that.
Like it's ambitious in the sense that he's doing a lot of small scale independent filmmaking
on his own.
He's making a feature every month and it proves that, you know, you don't need this massive

(12:57):
budget or not even a small budget.
You don't even need 2 million, 3 million dollars or whatever.
You can just make something.
You can write a script.
You can make it with your friends and you can shoot and edit small budget movies.
Blue Rune was made with like $400,000.
Like fucking.
Yeah, that's a shit ton of money.
No, but like, you know, you're talking, you're talking about how, you know, every, every other

(13:19):
art form has less of a barrier to entry or you said Hollywood imposes that, but that's
not necessarily true because, you know, compared to like songwriting, especially nowadays is
something that you can do entirely by yourself with a MacBook and the instruments.
But filmmaking is now and always has been a highly collaborative art form that does
cost the barrier to entry is financial because if you want to make a movie that looks good

(13:44):
and cinematic and have good actors in it and have, you know, good shot composition and
all that stuff, you need money and you need people around you to help you do it, to help
make your vision come to life.
I mean, you can't, you can't, you can do it by yourself.
I guess.
Absolutely, but like it's, it has been like all, I, all of your favorite films, your top

(14:08):
10 list, they were highly collaborative and they took a lot of money to make.
I'm sure they did.
Yeah, I'm sure.
But the thing is that that's why I think we're in such a cool change in the perception of
like the industry as a whole is like everyone like, like you're like, well, you'd need a
camera, you need equipment, you need extra people.
You can make a movie by yourself.

(14:28):
It might be not is exactly what you're imagining in your head, but you could take your phone
and you can go film a shot.
You could play two characters or just be yourself.
And people have done that too.
Fucking tangerine had a fucking micro budget and it was filmed on iPhones and it looked
10,000 times better than anything Joel Haver made.
That's just as much a film as all these movies that Joel Haver has made.
Like I don't see what the difference is.

(14:49):
Sure, but it's not, but they're not good.
Like you just don't, you seem hung up on the fact that it doesn't look cinematic enough.
It doesn't look cinematic.
The scripts feel very lazy.
The stories are fucking lazy.
Like I don't, I disagree with the laziness.
I just don't have any positive things to say about them.
And I really wanted to like his stuff because I liked his YouTube channel.
I liked his shorts.

(15:09):
I like all this stuff he made.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, I'm definitely not on the tip of saying that they're not real movies.
I, I don't think that that's like a helpful way to label things real or not.
I don't know if, I don't even know if Nick is doing that necessarily.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying that they don't feel like, okay, maybe I, maybe I'm wording it wrong.

(15:30):
Because what I was saying was they don't feel like real movies to me.
And that isn't that they're not technically movies.
Of course they're technically movies, but they just, they don't feel a very high value
to me.
Like I don't hold them to very high regard.
It's like, yeah.
When, when, if someone says I made 12 movies in 12 months, that makes me feel like I, you
obviously didn't put a lot of work into each one of them because they just couldn't have.

(15:52):
You really just, there's not enough time for you to write an entire script, hire your entire
crew in, in 30 days.
Like from, from the beginning of the month to the end of the month, you have to have
cut a lot of corners to get that done.
And to me, that makes me not really want to check it out.
You know, I think that's fair.
No.
I mean, some of them, sure.
But like, I mean, for example, like the first one he did was he's like, I wanted to go out

(16:15):
just on a softball easy one.
So he filmed, I think over a week, he just filmed a found footage movie about a character
who's like a homeless guy living in his hometown.
So that one's easy to film.
But then, uh, I haven't seen it fully yet, but, uh, hello, my beautiful creatures.
He fully took two and a half, three months to film a stop motion movie in that 12 months.
That was the majority of the time it's janky looking, but I don't know if fucking two and

(16:39):
a half hours stop motion features doesn't really stream low effort to me.
Well I haven't seen them all.
So maybe there might be some gyms in there that I haven't seen and, and I'll bite my
tongue, but I mean, I'll watch some more of them.
But I feel like I'm not saying that you have to like them.
I just think to disregard them as like actual art is a little reductive.

(17:01):
I'm just getting annoyed about the whole like, oh, these, these movies are bad.
Like again, our point is these are movies by definition, just as much as like if we
can count, nobody's arguing that.
Okay then I guess I just don't know what we're arguing about then.
Because I thought that was the whole point, I thought that was what you were arguing against.

(17:22):
I never said they weren't movies.
I said they don't feel like movies.
And I think that was maybe a bad way to word what I was saying.
But like-
You all know what he's talking about though.
You know what he means.
Sure, I think he thinks it's-
When he says it looks like a movie, you can tell it feels that way, you know, when you
throw it on.
But that's because we've had a hundred years of incredibly expensive movies of just like,

(17:43):
that's the only way.
Because back in the 70s, not anybody could make a movie and film was incredibly expensive.
You only have a very small handful.
Bro, Clerks was shot on film for like $40,000.
When was Clerks, 2000?
Yeah.
It was like 1999 or something.
I'm not saying, but I'm saying that like, the further back you go, the harder it was
to make something.

(18:04):
And now we're at a period where everyone has a video camera in their pocket.
And there's like, and there's like a million, he's in fucking LA, there's like a million
cinematographers who would love to fucking work on his film.
Yeah.
I think it's just a you problem.
I don't mind the way they look.
I think they look funny.
Yeah.
I just like, you know, say if you don't like the way they look, that's fine.

(18:24):
I'm just, you know, but that, I guess I'm just getting hung up on the whole, they don't
feel like movies, which I know you said is a wrong way to, is not the correct way to
say it, but I don't know.
I just don't know how to word what I'm trying to say because they don't look cinematic.
They don't sound very good.
Like it doesn't feel like a high quality movie.
All right.
So let me pose this question.

(18:45):
Would you rather, Nick, particularly, would you rather have watched a Joel Haver movie
that he said, I'm going to spend 12 months to make one movie.
You know, doesn't that sound more appealing to you personally?
That's what I would want to see from any filmmaker.
I would love that.
Because like I said before, like film is one of the most difficult mediums to really get,

(19:09):
to put your vision to life because it takes so much time, it takes money, it takes so
many, so much people working together.
There's music that you have to get.
Like it's fucking, it's basically every art form that you can imagine put into one thing.
You know?
Another example off the top of my head, like did y'all grow up watching, I don't know if,
I don't know if it might be too old for y'all, but like Derek comedy, any of y'all?

(19:30):
Derek who?
Derek comedy with fucking, what's his fucking name?
Childish Gambino.
What's his fucking real name?
Donald Glover.
Yeah.
That was his sketch comedy group on YouTube and they were really fucking popular on YouTube
and they actually got funding for their movie off of like YouTube basically.
They got like a million dollars funding, filmed their movie called Mystery Team and it was

(19:54):
really funny.
It was like a really fucking funny movie.
Like Joel Haver was a big enough name that he could have gotten funding to make a movie
if he wanted to.
He doesn't have those, like those same constraints you're talking about that all these filmmakers
have.
Joel doesn't have those.
He could just be like, Hey, look at how fucking popular my YouTube is.
Fucking give me some, give me $500,000 to make a movie and somebody would fucking do

(20:14):
it.
From everything I've seen from him though, he seems like he's aggressively independent.
Like he wants everything that he does to be outside of the Hollywood system, which, you
know, which is totally commendable.
I think that that's fine.
I can find independently wealthy people outside of Hollywood that will give you money to make
a movie.
There's a ton of people that did it.
They did it for fucking Evil Dead.
They did it for so many fucking movies.

(20:35):
Yeah.
I mean, I guess he, he wants to prove that he can do it without, but I mean, I guess
my point here is that he's not showing Baker, you know?
Maybe maybe he could take a little bit of money.
I don't know.
It seems like a lot of your problems, Nick, VHS Nick is like, it doesn't look expensive
enough.

(20:56):
Like it doesn't look like the cinematography is good enough.
The sound isn't good enough.
The whatever other, I think those are the main two things.
It just doesn't seem like he cared about these movies like on an individual level.
Does care.
Cause he spent like, I don't know, every time I've watched, I've never thought he didn't
care.
Oh, of course that was, but the, you're, you're talking specifically about that.
If you go out of the 12, uh, I'd say probably the one you have the best chance of really

(21:19):
liking is pretend that you love me, which he made over the course of a year and a half.
You did?
Yeah.
It was okay.
It was okay.
That one's fucking phenomenal.
So maybe the issue is that you just don't like Joel Haver, Nick.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a sketch comedy.
I think I haven't watched anything like, like long form that he's done that I've liked all
that much.

(21:40):
Do you think that honestly, honestly, Nick, do you think that, um, is Joel Haver a beta
cuck?
I don't think so.
He seems like a nice guy.
Okay.
What the fuck are we talking about?
No, wait.
So before we, if we were about to switch subjects, I want it, there is one thing cause, uh, Ethan,
Ethan sent a review that Joel Haver made of the Bob Dylan movie and there was one thing

(22:05):
in there that he said that I thought would be interesting for us to have a conversation
about.
He referred to basically the fact that Timothy Chalamet was playing Bob Dylan as millionaires
cause playing as millionaires, which is, it's kind of, I don't know.
That was kind of a crazy case.
Sorry.
Who said this?
It's absurd.
Joel Haver.
Joel Haver.

(22:26):
He has a letter box.
Yeah.
He's a fan of things, of all things Hollywood for sure.
He's very anti Hollywood.
Yes.
But like, all right.
So the way, the way that Hollywood works is that they, they build up stars and then those
stars becomes a selling point for the movie.
You can put Leonardo DiCaprio in a movie when he's like in his early twenties, that Titanic

(22:47):
becomes a hit.
Then everyone wants to see the next movie that Leonardo DiCaprio is in.
And that creates this highly exclusive club of highly profitable selling points that people
can put in their movies and everyone's going to go see.
And then people like Leonardo DiCaprio and Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise, they become these
cultural touchstones for everyone to care about and want to go see them in films.

(23:11):
But what that does is it creates this members only club that pushes out-
It's such a circle.
Yeah.
It pushes out all the other highly talented actors that could be working in big movies.
But since Hollywood wants to make these profit centers out of actors, it makes the system
is so closed and highly exclusive.

(23:31):
So like, basically my question is, do you think it's bad that there are only, I don't
know, like probably 30 to 40 A-list actors?
Or would you rather see films that have, you know, that, you know, like directors never
reuse the actors and they just cast entirely new people.
You don't have stars anymore.

(23:51):
You know what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
It's a double-edged sword for me.
Because I like to see actors, I like to see actors surprise me.
So I like to see actors in multiple different types of roles, right?
That's always nice for me.
But then you have like the other side of it where like, there's an actor like The Rock
that they just miscast and everything, right?

(24:14):
So like, I think there's good moments and bad moments for it for me.
Where like, I'm like, oh shit, I get to see Zac Efron fucking doing insert thing here.
That surprised me, right?
Or I get to be like, okay, here's The Rock 15th time when this could have been fucking
anybody else.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's interesting because like in that specific review you're bringing up, he points

(24:40):
out the irony of a complete unknown casting one of the most famous actors in the last
10 years.
And I think there is something to say about being able to disappear into roles and like
not knowing.
Like, I think Dune, the Dune movies would have been a million times better if I did
not know any of the actors going in.

(25:01):
If they were all entirely unknown.
I agree.
Knowing that this is capitalism, that's never going to happen because they had to sell this
movie off the cast.
It's unfortunate because like in an ideal world, however famous you are, wouldn't fucking
matter, all you would need is the best and most talented actor for that specific role
to do that specific thing, to play that specific character.

(25:22):
But unfortunately we don't live in that world.
We live in a world where big Hollywood A-listers sell movies above all else.
So we have to cast the most obvious casting.
I still think there's some of that in the indie scene.
But even then, I'm not even a hundred percent against that just as long as there's a point
to it.
It doesn't detract from the movie.

(25:45):
Saying the rock is miscast and everything is just the easiest fucking thing in the world.
I think like a more, I'm thinking of more like in terms of something like Bohemia and
Rhapsody for example.
Before that movie ended up being whatever the fuck it was, this big corporate lie, this
fan fiction, this PG-13 fan fiction created to win Oscars.

(26:08):
It was originally like a genuine passion project because Sacha Baron Cohen wanted to play the
part and he mentioned before that he wanted to make a raw, authentic portrayal of Freddie
Mercury's life that would just not hide anything.
Just be upfront, this is who Freddie Mercury was.
A number of directors were attached.
I think David Fincher was attached at once.

(26:29):
Something like that where you have a big A-list actor like Sacha Baron Cohen, where you have
a notable director, but it still would have ended up really well.
It still would have been something great.
But instead, we don't get things like that.
We get just bullshit like what Bohemia and Rhapsody ends up being.
That's an easy target.
But unfortunately, there are plenty of films like that.

(26:51):
I don't think that has to do with the casting though.
I think if had that movie had different filmmaker, like Rami Malek would have done a good job.
I think Rami Malek was good in that film.
Yeah, I think Rami Malek was fine.
I don't think so.
I don't think he did that great.
I agree with Nick about when you said it's a double-edged sword because I also do, I
love to be able to see my favorite actor Joaquin Phoenix do dozens of different roles and transform

(27:13):
himself and everything.
That's a really cool thing to see.
But at the same time, I really don't like how there are probably thousands of actors
out there that are maybe not just as good as Joaquin Phoenix.
I think he's a singular talent, but just as good as fucking dozens of A-listers out there,
but they never get a chance because of how exclusive the casting system in Hollywood

(27:35):
is.
My thing is I feel like if that wasn't the case, if the movie star as a concept became
obsolete in some way, then filmmakers would be the ones that people are going out to see.
I feel like Stanley Kubrick was a good model for this because he never really cared about
movie stars.
He had Jack Nicholson in the movie, but more often than not-

(27:59):
But he cast him because he fit well in the movie, not because he wanted Jack Nicholson
per se, he didn't cast Tom Cruise or Nicole Kidman because they were big movie stars.
Jack Nicholson in The Shining.
Yeah, Kubrick didn't cast Tom Cruise or fucking Nicole Kidman because they were big movie
stars.
He cast them because they fit well for the type of story he was going for.

(28:22):
Even say something like Lord of the Rings, at the time when they were making the film,
not a lot of actors in that film were big stars like Elijah Wood wasn't that big, Viggo
Mortenson wasn't that big, Sean Astin was the guy from Goonies and that's about it.
It's frustrating because a lot of movies, if they just weren't tied down by these big

(28:47):
name stars, then things would just be at the very least a little more immersive.
You can't tell me when you watch something like say, I don't know, I'm trying to think
of a good example.
I guess something like how Oppenheimer was filled with just all these A-list actors that
are just randomly in the movie because fuck you, because I could.

(29:11):
Or like how Harry Styles is just randomly in Dunkirk because fuck you, he could be because
he's a big pop singer that everyone really loves.
Things like that.
What purpose does it serve for Harry Styles to be in Dunkirk?
Nothing.
It could have been played by fucking anyone.
It could have been played by The Rock for all I cared and it would barely have made
a difference.

(29:32):
Also Harry Styles fucking sucks, dude.
He's such a bad actor.
No, no, he's going to be in the Eternal sequel guys.
This is going to be really good.
Are they doing an Eternal sequel?
No, he was just in the post credit scene of Eternals.
He'll never show up in MCU again.
I don't think I stuck around for the post credits of that movie.
Yeah, dude.
Isn't that crazy?
He's Thanos' brother.

(29:52):
But that's why I also really love character actors because they're famous enough that
people could recognize them on the street.
But they're not like Tom Cruise or something where they're, oh, you don't see the act,
the celebrity.
You see the character that they're playing.
People like say Bill Skarsgård or Michael Stuhlbarg or people like that.

(30:14):
Huge character actors.
Alfred Molina.
Yeah, Alfred Molina or the number of actors who are in Coen Brothers films that aren't
George Clooney.
These are character actors that really immerse themselves in their roles.
They disappear into their characters.
So when you watch their films, you don't see John Goodman or Steve Buscemi or John Titor
or something like that.

(30:34):
You see the characters that they play in.
William H. Macy.
You don't see the actors.
You see the characters they play in Big Lebowski, Fargo, True Grit, whatever.
What's your guys favorite character?
What were you going to ask?
I was just about to ask, what would you guys define as a character actor?
Because I vaguely know, but I've never had anyone explain it to me exactly.

(30:54):
A character actor is basically someone who is generally not in a leading role.
You see them playing a bunch.
They're highly transformative actors that are versatile and can fit into many different
supporting roles.
Tim gave a lot of good examples of character actors.
John Goodman, Steve Buscemi, Alfred Molina is another good one.

(31:17):
Anne Doud is a really good character actor.
Gary Oldman's most famous one.
Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Yeah, Gary Oldman.
Philip Seymour Hoffman is a character actor.
He also got a lot of leading roles though.
If you get leading roles, I don't necessarily think you're character acting.

(31:37):
There's a difference between John DeTurro and George Clooney.
When George Clooney leads a Coen Brothers film, you primarily see George Clooney.
He just happens to fit the role.
But when you see John DeTurro, you don't just see John DeTurro.
You see the actor John DeTurro playing a character.
The dichotomy is movie star versus character actor usually.

(32:00):
Those are the two main kinds of actors that you'll see in Hollywood.
I think my favorite is probably Walton Goggins.
Oh, that's a good choice.
That's a good one.
The guy who played Fuchs in Barry, what the fuck was his name?
Oh, I know exactly who you're talking about.
Steven Root.
Steven Root.
I think he's another good one.

(32:21):
Jennifer Jason Lee, I would say is a good actor.
Bill Hader is a good one.
Bill Hader is good.
Yeah, Giamatti.
I said Molina and yeah, Stahlberg is another great one.
I would say those two are two of my favorites.
But yeah, it's always a nice treat to see character actors that you love in movies.
I just watched The Instigators, the new Matt Damon, Casey Affleck movie, which was, it

(32:46):
was pretty fun.
I didn't even put anything of that.
It's just like an Apple TV movie, but it was pretty fun.
And Michael Stahlberg was randomly in it.
I was like, oh, hell yeah.
I was actually going to bring him up.
That's the dude from Fucking Shape of Water, right?
A Serious Man.
You ever see that?
He's the lead in that.
Yeah, he was the lead in that one.
Speaking of Shape of Water, what's his name?

(33:10):
Michael Shannon.
Yeah, Michael Shannon.
He's another good character actor.
And yeah, John Malkovich, I was going to say in Shape of Water.
John Malkovich is not a good actor though.
What?
What?
I mean, he's okay.
Being John Malkovich alone makes him a great actor.
He phones it in a lot.

(33:30):
He phones it in a lot.
Well, Adam Sandler phones it in a lot and I still consider Adam Sandler a great actor.
Okay, that's fair.
Yeah.
Conversation.
Argument done.
Okay, I agree.
Fuck you.
I'm just saying I watched Rounders again recently and fucking his accent is one of the most
atrocious things I've ever heard in my life.

(33:51):
Oh yeah, he has his weaknesses, but you know, many actors do.
Yeah, I was going to mention Octavia Spencer, I think is a really great character as well.
She's great.
Shape of Water as well.
Yeah.
Shape of Water.
He bring up the fish fucking movie.
I know.
I really like that movie.

(34:12):
I've been working on this video for the romance shit and I didn't even think about Shape of
Water.
Fish fucking.
You got to add the fish fucking.
You're going to add Nosferatu?
No.
Okay.
That actually, so we mentioned Rami Malek earlier in the Bohemian Rhapsody.
I just wanted to bring this up because I was curious.
Have you guys heard about this movie Better Man?
Yes.

(34:33):
Yeah.
I'm actually kind of excited to see it.
It's a Robbie Williams biopic musical.
Okay, the monkey one.
Okay.
The monkey one.
I've read that it was the reason he's a, sorry, he's an ape.
The reason he's an ape was because he thought that people would be able to sympathize better

(34:53):
with an ape than with a human, which I think is just really funny.
And that's it.
He's just an ape through the movie.
I think the movie looks horrible, but I'm so excited to see it.
The reviews are not, it's got a 3.7 on letterbox.
Reviews are pretty good.
That's not terrible.
Apparently, it's such a tremendous flop at the box office.
It didn't even break a million at the US office.
And it's because no one knows who the fuck this is.

(35:15):
No one knows who Robbie Williams is.
I'm sorry for anyone who likes Robbie Williams, but no one knows who the fuck this man is.
I think that's the real reason they don't want to admit that they're doing a monkey.
They're like, nobody knows who the fuck this is.
Maybe they'll go see a movie about a singing monkey.
Yeah, maybe they'll think this is a Planet of the Apes spin-off.
Maybe this is a Planet of the Apes spin-off.

(35:37):
They'll trick them into thinking it's that.
This is just another trend, though, of just generic, stale, corporate, by-the-numbers,
fuck-all music biopic movies that have no original ideas.
The Pharrell Williams one, they're like, but this one's Lego.

(35:57):
It's like, is this all they could come up with?
It's a music biopic, but it's Legos.
It's a music biopic, but funky.
It's a music biopic, but it's also a musical in this thing that you're watching that you
expect to have music in it.
It's a music biopic.
But you did say you wanted something different, bro.
Take your lane.
You either want monkey or you want walking on.

(36:22):
What I mean by different, though, is that I just want something way more ambitious and
way more experimental.
It doesn't fucking matter if you put a monkey in there.
You could put a piece of shit in there, a literal piece of shit as the main character.
I don't fucking care.
You're still just following the exact same template, an exact same structure as every

(36:43):
single one of these music biopics do.
So you're saying they all follow the same structure, blah, blah, blah.
If it's telling a true story, how do you want it to be different?
Give me an example of what you want different from these biopics.
I mentioned this in the Lost.
Am I allowed to mention the Lost discarded episode that we tried to upload?

(37:05):
We're going to talk about that in a minute.
Okay.
What did I say?
What was the Todd Haynes film?
I'm not there, I think it was called.
Yeah, I'm not there.
The other Bob Dylan movie.
The other Bob Dylan movie and arguably the better.
I haven't even seen this new Bob Dylan movie and I already think the Todd Haynes one is
better because it doesn't follow the exact same shit.

(37:28):
It actually tries to be way more ambitious in terms of what it's going for.
Making a simple biopic about Bob Dylan isn't enough to A, understand the guy or B, understand
his philosophy or his approach to music or anything.
Getting six different actors, two of whom look nothing like him, actually three of them

(37:48):
because Richard Gere is a fucking old fuck who looks nothing like Bob Dylan.
That's Cate Blanchett in there.
Yeah, Cate Blanchett and then some other guy, these are all very ambitious choices to portray
this version of Bob Dylan that I think is interesting.
Another example would be something like Walk Hard, the Dewey Cox story, which isn't technically

(38:09):
a biopic but it might as well be because it's just ripping apart every single cliche and
generic shit that you-
No, they're not going to make a Bob Dylan movie that's just spoofing Bob Dylan.
Why not?
That would be way more interesting.
Think of Oppenheimer.
I mean, Oppenheimer was incredibly artful.
I hated that movie.

(38:30):
That was probably my favorite movie of 2023.
I loved that movie.
That was a biopic that definitely was not paint by numbers.
It was very artful.
I don't think the biopic aspect of it is what killed it for me though, so that's fair.
I feel like Oppenheimer is definitely Christopher Nolan's best movie by far.

(38:51):
Here's another example.
I wouldn't say it's his best, but it's definitely one of his better films.
The Prestige is actually a genuinely 10 out of 10 movie.
I think Oppenheimer is near perfect.
It is a really, really great movie and definitely my favorite out of his film.
Are you just like a Cillian Murphy sand or what?

(39:12):
I just think it's undoubtedly his best movie.
I would kiss Cillian Murphy's feet.
I don't want to hear any of this shit talking on Cillian Murphy, okay?
That's another thing I don't get.
What's with the Cillian Murphy fucking everybody just stroking this guy off?
What has he done that's good?
Outside of Peaky Blinders.
28 Days Later, Oppenheimer.
How is he in any way impressive in 28 Days Later?

(39:39):
That movie was cool.
I don't know how best to answer this question.
Is it just because he's cute?
VHS Nick wants a lot of like mathematic answers to why you think something's good and why
something's good enough.
Whatever.
Anyway, what I was saying, here's another example.
Amadeus, I think is, I mean, Amadeus isn't technically a biopic.

(40:00):
It's based on a play, but it might as well be.
That's a far more interesting film than like 90% of the shit that comes out about musicians
who have the rock star life, I guess.
You can totally make something ambitious and interesting that isn't just the same shit
and isn't just throw in a gimmick.
Monkey.
Legos.

(40:20):
I'm not disagreeing with you by the way.
I think they are very formulaic and lame.
So I mean, I was just curious as to like what you'd like to see.
All right, wait, wait.
I have a question about Better Man.
So it actually is just Robbie Williams life story, but they just made him a monkey.
He's just a monkey.
But they just made a monkey.
That's literally it.
There's no, I don't think there's an explanation for it.

(40:41):
I haven't seen it.
Wait, wait, wait.
He's just a monkey.
How could it be his life story if he's a monkey and no one else is a talking monkey?
What I want to know, right?
That's the thing, right?
He's the only talking monkey in the world and he's a British music star who no one in
any other country, by the way.
I hope there's like a birth scene where he's just coming out.

(41:03):
His mom's a human.
She just fucking pooches out a monkey.
You gave birth to a beautiful ape.
I hope he goes up to be a sneer.
If it's a biopic, that means they have to go through his actual career loosely.
But how do you do that when every second somebody's going to be like, holy shit, that's a talking
monkey singing in there?
I don't think they do.

(41:24):
Maybe they just don't acknowledge it.
They just have to not acknowledge it.
What the fuck knows?
I don't know.
That monkey can really sing.
Think about how expensive this was too.
Think about how much more expensive it was to have monkey versus just an actor.
Is that a monkey?
I mean, honestly, making him an ape gave it a better chance of it doing better because
nobody knows who Robbie Williams is.
Yeah.
Besides, like, I'm Australia or something.

(41:46):
Not human.
Get it?
Because it's like the Elvis thing.
He's white.
What an epic scene.
Oh, do you get it?
I just got it.
Better man because he's an ape.
An ape or like man.
What a de-slapper.
I'm dying of laughter right now.
Have you guys?
You fucking kill me already.

(42:07):
The funniest thing about this entire better man thing is that all of the Brits are so
incredulous and mad that people don't know who the fuck Robbie Williams is.
They think that people are lying.
They genuinely think that Americans are lying by saying that they've never heard of Robbie
Williams.
I've never heard of this fucking guy.
I thought we were talking about Robin Williams this whole time.
Yes.
Literally.
That's it.

(42:28):
I thought this was Robin Williams' son.
Yeah.
Well, anyway, yeah, should we?
One more thing.
To be fair, I didn't even know who Amy Winehouse was.
They made a movie about her.
So I fucked with Amy Winehouse.
I did.
One more thing on music biopics.
Have you guys heard about the Piano Man biopic that's in the works right now?

(42:49):
Oh, that'd be cool.
I like Billy Joel.
No, no, no.
This is crazy.
So it's Michael J. White's studio got his greenlit a Billy Joel biopic called Piano
Man.
However, they do not own the rights to any of his music or his likeness or his name.

(43:09):
What the fuck?
So we're going to see what they do.
That sounds fun.
Michael J. White doesn't like breathe like great filmmaking to me anyway.
I don't know.
He's not making it.
Black Dynamite is so good, though.
Black Dynamite is great, but for all the like the dumbest reasons.
Anyway, I just thought that was funny.

(43:32):
Speaking of biopics, we didn't know was happening.
I didn't know a Bruce Springsteen biopic was happening until yesterday because I was listening
to some.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, I was listening to some Springsteen music the other day while doing something
and I got a notification.
I looked it up and apparently there was a movie happening with Scott Cooper directing

(43:56):
who which who's kind of a mixed bag.
I can't say I've seen a movie for him that I love, but he's the guy who did Black Mask
and into the sorry Black Mask and Into the Furnace and the Pale Blue Heart or something
like Antlers.
I think that was the other one he did.
I know he did like one famous movie that I really like.

(44:17):
I don't think he did Antlers, did he?
No, he did Antlers.
Oh, he did Hostels.
That was another one that I couldn't even finish because it was so boring.
That movie fucking sucked ass, bro.
Is that the one with with Christian Bale?
Christian Bale and Rosalind Pike and West Duty.
I fell asleep like 15 times trying to watch that movie.
Yeah, but they got Jeremy Allen White to play Springsteen, which I was literally, dude,

(44:41):
that's crazy.
I was literally just thinking, I haven't heard of this.
I was like, they should get Jeremy Allen White.
Fuck yeah.
I didn't hear Black Mask.
Yeah, they have so many biopics and talks right now.
It's crazy.
There's always like 10 of these a year.
Yeah, I mean, I like I like Jeremy Allen White as an actor.
The Iron Claw was one of the most emotionally manipulative and boring things ever.

(45:02):
But you know, aside, he wasn't he wasn't bad in the movie.
So what is emotionally manipulative?
He said this like 10 times the other day and it stressed me out.
That's genuinely what happened to this family.
That's what I'm saying.
They tuned it down to there were like three other people who fucking had this family that
they didn't even put in the movie.
It's just like the sad story ever.

(45:23):
It happened.
Yeah, great.
It happened in the past.
That doesn't change the fact that the way they presented it was the most emotionally
manipulative and cry me a river type shit ever.
It doesn't matter.
Like, yeah, so if your brother's died, you wouldn't be sad.
We should we should film that as like a comedy.
Sure.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, just quote me that can't get.

(45:43):
That's the thing that gets me canceled for my brother gets killed.
I won't give a fuck.
Every time every time a brother dies, it's like man.
I don't I genuinely don't understand how that movie is emotionally manipulating.
I tried to ask you that last time you said it, especially since the movie is so forgettable
that I literally forgot most of the movie.
So I couldn't even give you an answer.

(46:05):
And also the fact that they specifically made a concerted effort to tone down the sadness,
the tragedy that this one family endured.
It makes me feel like they were trying to make it less emotionally manipulative, if
anything.
I genuinely love that movie.
So like it's like surprisingly, you think it's boring.
Like it's when you like the past lives, past lives was fucking boring.

(46:29):
I don't know how you could find.
Yeah.
Well, now we're just getting into semantics on what we find boring.
We got to get back on topic.
Well, this is talk about Brazil.
Wait, yeah.
Before you go ahead, Nick, before we get into it, we have to let's make a eulogy for our
episode that that was totally corrupted immediately after we talked about it.

(46:49):
This wasn't me.
Yeah.
I mean, it was, it was my fault.
I guess my audio and video were, were messed up and when it was processing it, the file
came in is totally unusable.
That would have been very funny to listen to though, because my voice ended up pitched
down like it seemed like he was talking like it was pretty intense.
But yeah, so we're going to try to talk about Brazil again.

(47:12):
We already did this.
Gullif didn't though.
So yeah, so it'll be like a whole new episode.
Yeah.
Who wants to introduce what they think this movie is?
I've never seen this movie before ever in my entire life until now.
Crazy.
Gullif, give us a rundown on how you feel about Brazil.
I was hoping I wouldn't have to do the summary.

(47:35):
Brazil, not about the country.
I thought it was, but it really wasn't.
It was, it is a sci-fi satirical dystopian film by Terry Gilliam where, I don't remember
the main character's name, where a guy who's basically like your-
Jonathan Price.
Jonathan Price.
He's like your pencil pusher.
What is he like a, he's just a business, he's a suit.

(47:58):
He's like a low-level government worker basically.
And he basically gets thrust into this kind of plot where he just essentially learns of
how fucked this whole society is and you know, and just kind of what antics ensue after that.
It's also about his uninvestment in it and his escapism through his, what's the word?

(48:21):
Imagination and shit.
Imagination.
No, but yeah, I love this movie so much.
It's probably, I think it's my favorite movie that we've watched for the podcast.
Mostly because, it's kind of weird because I've said this all before, but you two guys
pretend like I didn't say this.
Okay?
Just listen.
I'm listening.

(48:42):
I know.
I absolutely love the way this movie tackles fascist satire because so often in movies,
it's like fascism is only depicted as this like giant monolithic structure that can,
it's only deserving of like audience's fear.
There's very rarely times where it's deserving of ridicule, but this movie depicts like a

(49:05):
fascist bureaucracy as the way that they genuinely are because they always fucking eat themselves
because they're more concerned with the idea of the state rather than how the state actually
operates and that's exemplified in the way that everything this bureaucracy creates is
constantly breaking.
The movie goes to a painstaking effort to depict that like from household appliances

(49:27):
to the infrastructure that's constantly blowing up and fucking killing its citizens.
Nothing that-
That they label as like terrorism even though it's not.
Yeah.
Nothing that this government does works.
I think that's a brilliant way to satirize fascism because it's not really done that
often in movies and I really appreciate that about this one.
I love how much that they just have bogged themselves down and just fucking paperwork.

(49:51):
That's just half the jokes.
They're just like, sorry, I don't have the right form so I'm going to go back and go
get a different form.
You got to get that signed by your boss to a different level.
It's a scathing indictment on basically every single form, the worst form of government
ever.
It's a scathing indictment on bureaucracy, on totalitarianism, on authoritarianism, just

(50:11):
every single one of them because it just showcases that like you said, it's kind of the worst
of every single world where if you want to say fix your air conditioning like what Jonathan
Price's character goes through, you can't just call some random electrical engineer.
No, fuck that.
You need to go through dozens upon dozens of paperwork and make sure that you're coordinating

(50:36):
with the right department.
I love how in that instance where Robert De Niro's character, they make him out like he's
this secret ninja assassin or some shit, but he's just like, no, I'm just like a freelance
electrical engineer.
I just like fixing air conditioning.
It's so funny that he goes to such lengths to do essentially the bare minimum of what

(50:58):
everyone needs when they get their air conditioning or their plumbing fixed.
It manages to toe the line between this is really over the top hilarious, but also just,
wow, this is a scathing indictment on and we can see a lot of our own modern worldviews
in governments through this film, through this specific lens.
Seeing our modern shit, I think even outside of the government talk and stuff, touching

(51:23):
on consumerism and people's insane focus on their appearance too, I think that was really
well satirized as well.
Like the mother with her face getting completely stretched.
Everybody's just getting fucking surgery and all they care about is what they look like.
One of my favorite parts in the movie is right at the beginning when there's this little

(51:44):
clerical error that causes someone to get killed eventually.
They break into his house and take him in and they don't know that he has some kind
of condition and he ends up dying.
Each department of the government is just tossing around this mistake like a hot potato.
No one wants to take blame for it.

(52:05):
That's such great satire because it's like, just like with people, with individuals, if
you can't admit that you've made a mistake, you'll never learn from them, which is partially
why this government doesn't work.
I think that's so brilliant that they did that.
They would rather just kick the can down the road instead of just actually addressing the
issue.
Even when they do, it's like you said, it's never their fault.

(52:27):
I love how the reason why the fuck up with the abduction that happens in the opening
isn't... because the characters make it out like it's some secret espionage shit.
Maybe they sent in a spy and they ruined everything or maybe this is like an inside job or something.
It happened because a fly got swatted and fell inside the machine that caused the mistake.

(52:52):
Like you said, regardless of how this mistake happens, like you said, no one takes responsibility.
I really love that little back and forth banter that Ian Holm's character and Jonathan Price's
character has where it's like, oh God, I don't want to deal with this.
Maybe we can just put the paycheck in a crack or something.
We can accidentally slip it under the doorstep or something and even Jonathan Price's character,

(53:17):
when he goes to the wife's house and he goes, well, we don't normally do this.
Normally you have to go through this extreme government process to get this check, but
because I'm such a nice guy, I'm going out of my way to give you this check, to give
this refund.
But it's such a disconnect from reality.
It's such an emotional disconnect from the bureaucratic office worker who just works

(53:42):
in his nice soulless gray department and this woman who just lost her husband.
Her husband fucking died and she can't even see the body all because a clerical error
was made, because of a technological error was made.
That disconnect, it creates a lot of awkward humor, but it also kind of goes to showcase
how people who run governments, especially those in more federal positions, they often

(54:08):
have a disconnected view from the people that they're governing because they're in very
privileged positions where they can make rules and make dictations on what says and what
goes when it comes to the rule of law.
But regardless, that doesn't even matter because I love how this film also just showcases that
it's not just a state problem when it comes to the issue of totalitarianism, fascism,

(54:34):
authoritarianism, whatever.
It's also a civilian problem as well because they're complacent to all of this.
They're apathetic to all this.
They don't give a shit.
All they give a shit about is, oh, I wonder if this procedure is going to make me 20,
30 years younger.
Am I going to buy a present for Christmas or something?
It's consumerism.
They're so concerned with consuming and consuming and buying things that they're not... Either

(54:57):
they don't give a shit or they're not aware of the greater issues that are plaguing this
hypothetical state.
Yeah.
I think what I took about it, because I've had a week extra to think about this now,
is what stuck with me is the main character is this guy who dreams of getting out of this
and really wants to escape the institution.

(55:19):
I think it's really interesting that it kind of shows you that the only escape from any
of these types of situations you're in is either in your mind through escapism or to
give up hope.
Or death.
Yeah.
You can have it be crushed out of you as well.
That was a lot of those characters that he'd been friends with and everything.

(55:40):
It just seemed like they'd just been like, yeah, there's no way out of this.
I'm here.
This is it.
I've mentioned this before, but that's why the ending, even though it seems like a very
horrible, sad ending, it's kind of a happy ending for this character because all he ever
really wanted to do was daydream.
And now he's in a position where he can daydream for the rest of his life.

(56:00):
And he can escape this horrible government bureaucracy that has only hurt him and everybody
he knows.
And now he doesn't have to deal with it, which is, I don't know.
Personally, that's preferable to me.
I'd rather be in the fucking chair dreaming about...
Yeah, if you're living in that world.
Absolutely.
Yeah, the whole...
They touch on it.
There's not really a place to escape to.
He was talking to the chick whenever they were driving.

(56:21):
He's like, let's just get out of here.
She was like, there is no fucking out of here.
It's just the next...
Just go over to the next area.
Yeah.
Let's go far away, but there is...
Far away is still here.
Yeah.
And I like how...
And I love how they exemplify that in the filmmaking as well, because there is a lot
of great filmmaking going on.
I love the contrast between these fantasy sequences, these dream sequences that he has

(56:44):
in his head.
I love how the lighting is utilized in these moments where everything is much more ethereal.
It's much brighter in terms of the lighting in these fantasy sequences compared to the
more dreary, the more color muted, the more grayish reality that he lives in.
Both have really incredible set pieces, but I love how there's a distinct difference in

(57:05):
the set pieces.
The fantasy sequences have much more color to them.
There's a much brighter, poppier tone within the fantasy sequences compared to...
Even the way it's shot, there is a lot more breathing room in terms of the fantasy sequences.
There's a lot more utilizations of medium wide wide shots compared to the more claustrophobic,

(57:28):
up and close personal camera work that's being done in the real sequences.
There's a lot of just great filmmaking when you see that contrast between the fantasy
and the real sequence that I really appreciated.
Yeah.
Specifically, the scene early on where he's in his shithole apartment, that just looks
like an absolute nightmare that would make me want to die.

(57:49):
I absolutely hated that.
Yeah.
The focus on the cosmetic surgeries, I think, is really symbolically interesting, especially
considering the fact that if you use the cosmetic surgeries as a mirror to what the bureaucracy
of this, in the universe of this film does, they're able to create things that on the

(58:09):
outside look fucking incredible.
Every government building that you see is this huge fucking monolithic structure.
It's monolithic.
Yeah.
It's really intimidating, but it's also really beautiful.
Once you get inside, literally everything is fucking falling apart, which is the same
thing that happens to these women, these older women that are getting these cosmetic surgeries.
They're not really going to hold.

(58:30):
Nothing lasts.
Oh, artificial.
Yeah.
It's also brittle.
I really think that's pretty brilliant.
Yeah.
I like what the opening scene, I know you guys did talk about it, but the opening scene of
the just a clerical error that causes someone to die and just absolutely tears apart a family.

(58:51):
It reminds me a lot of how people nowadays talk about the death penalty.
It's like, well, why does it take so long and why is it so expensive to get someone
killed who's on death row?
It's like, well, because if those precautions weren't put in place, we'd have so many innocent
people get killed.
It's going to be expensive and take a lot of time and we potentially will actually put

(59:18):
down someone that has done a horrible thing and is proven guilty or we just go, fuck it,
get them out quick and then we kill a bunch of people.
It just reminded me of that a lot.
They're like, oh, sorry about that, ma'am.
I just need you to sign this piece of paper real quick saying it's fine.
Yeah.
Why are you crying?

(59:38):
Even the torture scene that Jonathan Price's characters go through, he's still subjected
to so much paperwork.
He's subjected to so many different lawyers who are telling him to sign different documents
while he's being tortured.
It's so hilarious.
It's funny.
I love-
It's a stickler for paperwork.
There's so many small details about this movie that I love.

(01:00:00):
The cars that they drive in in particular, it's this tiny little box that can only fit
one person, which is something, keeping people apart, keeping people separate, atomized is
a tactic of governments like this because they don't want people to rise up against
the bureaucracy or the fashion dictatorship or whatever.

(01:00:21):
Showing him driving in that small tiny car is symbolic of the way the government wants
to keep everyone by themselves and feel like they're alone.
I thought that was really brilliant.
I love that Tim was alluding to this before that De Niro's character is literally, he's
only considered a terrorist because he wants to do work, actual work on people's heating

(01:00:43):
units and shit without filling out paperwork.
That makes him a terrorist.
That makes him a terrorist.
Apparently being a freelancer in this world makes you a terrorist.
The government is so concerned.
They're always concerned about terrorism, but meanwhile, the only thing that's actually
harming their citizens is their fucking crumbling to the point of exploding infrastructure.

(01:01:06):
Literally everything that blows up in this movie is just a result of shitty fucking engineering
done by this government.
I love that.
I like that it also takes the time to show how a lot of the other people who are higher
up are trapped in the suppressive system too.
It's not necessarily what they want to do either.

(01:01:28):
Everybody's suffering.
It's just the main character.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean... No, go on Tim.
I love those types of films.
I love how... Because it's easy to just make it just about this one character that's the
one that's suffering or whatever.
I love how it's not just that character.

(01:01:48):
It's a widespread issue that's affecting it.
Even his coworker who... They don't even have their own desks.
They have to share a desk.
They constantly fight over how much desk space they get.
He's protective of his computers.
No, you can't use my computer.
No, I'll type it.
Yeah.
The boss's office is fucking massive.

(01:02:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of the people who are in these positions are fucking incompetent.
Ian Holmes is technically Jonathan Price's boss, but Jonathan Price basically does everything
for him, especially during these moments of crises.
He's the one who has to solve everything.
It's clearly this government is not run on efficiency or effectiveness.

(01:02:33):
It's just a bizarre, outlandish state where the rule of law is just whatever the fuck
they want it to be.
It is a sad reality that unfortunately we can see a lot of our own worldviews onto.
Yeah.
What I was thinking of just now was mid 80s, mid to early 80s, this came out in 85, Blade

(01:03:01):
Runner came out in 82.
I was thinking about comparing the two in my mind as like, okay, you have Blade Runner,
which is a very serious drama set in this dystopian sci-fi world that's absolute hell.
Then you have Brazil, which is very similar.
But I think honestly, Brazil is more frightening to me because it feels more real.

(01:03:21):
Even though it's clearly a comedy, it feels so much more bleak in the juxtaposition of
having these very silly scenes, but having the most awful shit happen in the movie and
just to have it laughed off by a lot of characters, it's just really disturbing.
Yeah.
I agree.
This world sounds way worse than fucking Blade Runner.

(01:03:44):
That's why I love it so much because it really shows how not just that these governments
like this are horrible and commit atrocities against humans and disregard human rights
completely, but they're also just horrendously ineffective.
They're fucking contradictory and they only exist to justify themselves.

(01:04:10):
It's a bullshit government that always eats its health.
It always does.
Yeah.
Reality and law is whatever the fuck they want it to be.
It's not grounded in any sort of logic.
It's just whatever we want it to be and we have to make it as complicated as possible
so we don't have to actually do any realistic or effective or helpful work for anyone.

(01:04:30):
Because if they actually cared, then... because there's that section of the city that Jonathan
Price's character goes to that's just completely impoverished.
It was supposed to be this future utopia, future neighborhood, a future megalopolis
or whatever, but it's now a ruin.

(01:04:51):
It's now just a slum that... yeah, megalopolis.
It's just a slum where the poor just are forced to live in because they don't have anywhere
else to go and the government is not providing them any sort of net to help them get back
on their feet.
It's just fuck all.
It's very much a dog eats dog, everyone fends for themselves type world.

(01:05:13):
Unfortunately the main character, in his effort to try and break free from that system, ultimately
fails because he just can't get the best... it's just one person.
It very much is similar to something like 1984, which this film obviously takes inspiration
from where when you have an entire system that's just run on an iron grip and that's

(01:05:37):
just run purely on authoritative totalitarian rule where even the way you think is controlled
by the government, it's like how do you possibly... especially as an individual, how do you
possibly surmount to that?
How do you possibly overcome that?
In this film, even though there's more humor to this film, even though there's more of
a satirical comedy nature to it, it's still just as bleak as something like 1984 where

(01:06:00):
at the end of the day, this character just like Winston Smith in 1984, they try and they
fail spectacularly and the end result is the government having more of a grip on their
psyche than they ever did, than they ever before did.
Just like Nick was saying before, I think the ultimate message of this movie is unless

(01:06:21):
you are willing to create some kind of revolutionary militia or military force that's going to
overthrow the government and revolt, the only escape is turning into yourself and building
your imagination and just living an escapist life where you build your own world inside

(01:06:42):
your head because the world around you is so fucked up.
That's honestly the most relatable part of the movie for me because I don't even really
follow the news.
I know you all keep up with that kind of stuff a lot more than I do.
I really don't keep track of the news.
I don't really talk about politics.
You're not an article head?
I'm not.
I think that for me is why that's how I remain to be a happy person and can get through my

(01:07:03):
life without worrying about everything.
It's because I avoid that kind of shit.
I live in that little dream world too.
I can relate to it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I said, I love even taking aside the political nature of the film, there's still
a lot to chew on or just a pure filmmaking perspective.
There is so much.
I mentioned there is a distinct difference.

(01:07:23):
I love the scenes in the clouds.
It looks so nice.
Yeah.
It's shot really nicely.
The color in that film is particularly striking.
It's so overpowering compared to the more muted grayish colors that you see throughout
the rest of the film.
I love how the film makes a clear distinction between those fantasy scenes that Jonathan
Price's character has in his head and the actual real life shit that's going on that

(01:07:47):
he hates living, except in the end where the fantasy and the reality start meshing together.
It starts blending into the point where at a certain point you just figure out, oh, it's
all in his head.
It's a dream sequence or whatever.
Even if you do catch that pretty quickly, it's still an incredibly well presented piece

(01:08:10):
of surrealism where things are happening and you can tell that it's not reality, but at
the beginning there was still a sense of tangibility where it's like, oh, maybe this could be real.
Maybe this is happening.
Maybe Robert De Niro's character did come in and save Jonathan Price's character and

(01:08:31):
now he's rescuing him and launching this crusade against the government.
But then as you slowly realize that this is all in his head, when the surrealism becomes
much more explicit and much more in your face, you start becoming really depressed.
You start getting really sad because you realize, oh, this isn't reality.
This isn't what's actually happening.

(01:08:52):
This is all in its head.
This is all just a made up fantasy that's being conjured because of the torture device
that's going on.
It sucks because it's like a break in in reality where it's just, oh man, he didn't get it.
He didn't get his happy ending.
He's fucked.
This is it.
There is no escape from it.
It's like a Satoshi Koun.

(01:09:15):
His films are very surreal as well.
He likes playing around fantasy and reality to the point where the characters just can't
tell the difference between whether something they're experiencing is something that's actually
happening or in their head.
So it's a very similar vibe.
Speaking of Robert De Niro, we had a little bit of argument on the last episode.
I want Ethan to weigh in on this.

(01:09:37):
Was Robert De Niro doing an accent in this movie, in your opinion?
A British accent.
Oh, I'm trying to, yeah, he was British, I think.
No, he wasn't.
Listen, I haven't watched this a month ago.
We Googled it and the Google AI thing that they just added a couple of months ago, which
is famously unreliable, let's be real.

(01:09:58):
It lies sometimes.
Yeah, so we're not exactly, yeah, I'm not exactly getting the actual information.
But if you listen to the first thing he says, 100% he's putting on an accent.
He's like, hey, my name is Gary Tuttle.
He doesn't say that, bro.
He just does Robert De Niro voice.
He just does Robert De Niro.
He just has a very strong voice, but he was doing a fucking accent.
It just sucked.
Dude, if that was, I swear to God, if that was a British accent, that was the worst attempt

(01:10:23):
at doing an actor doing an accent.
Why do you think he never does accents, bro?
Come on.
I'm just saying that was fucking terrible, dude.
That makes me think, if he was genuinely trying to do an accent in that movie, it makes me
think less of Robert De Niro as an artist.
I'm going to be totally real with you.
I'm Gary Tuttle.
Yeah, it was him just doing it fucking like he's...
We're probably going to make a short of this because somebody fucking clip in Robert De

(01:10:44):
Niro because I swear to God, he's doing a British accent.
Here it is.
Okay.
I'm firmly...
My stance is that he was not doing an accent.
He sounded exactly like he did in any other fucking Scorsese movie, honestly.
It's funny when he showed up, I was like, damn, De Niro back in the 80s, he would have

(01:11:07):
been a good ass Mario.
And then actual Mario showed up.
And then the actual Mario showed up.
And then Bob Hoskins showed up.
I did the whole soy face.
Mario.
No, but if I could get meta for a second, I actually clipped out...
I read this last time.
So sorry, guys, you and Nick have to listen to it again, Tim, but I think this is interesting.

(01:11:31):
It's a bit of an article about the feud between Terry Gilliam and Universal that actually...
It's mainly about final cut rights for the American distribution of the film.
And also Steven Spielberg gets involved a little bit, so I'll just read that now.
Gilliam's 143 minute cut of the film was released without incident in Europe during the first

(01:11:51):
quarter of 1985, but domestic distribution rights to Brazil belonged to Universal Pictures,
which was being run at the time by Sidney Sheenberg.
As the company's president and COO, Sheenberg had successfully guided the studio through
the new Hollywood revolution by advocating for young Steven Spielberg and taking the
counsel of his junior executives by making National Lampoon's Animal House.

(01:12:13):
Sheenberg saw four Quadrant showmen in Spielberg, but Gilliam was harder to quantify.
He'd made an effervescent escapist hit in Time Bandits, but alas, Brazil was not Time
Bandits.
So when Sheenberg called for a massive re-edit, largely due to the director's insistence upon
the film's original nihilistic ending, Gilliam tried to head him off by appealing to the

(01:12:34):
exec's golden boy, Steven Spielberg.
But if you're at all interested in the behind the scenes drama of Brazil, you owe it to
yourself to read The Battle of Brazil, which is a definitive text on this subject.
But what you won't learn from that is that Gilliam attempted to curry favor with Spielberg,
who with a word could have changed Sheenberg's mind.
In an interview with Perspective, Gilliam revealed that after a screening for the Universal

(01:12:57):
Suits that left execs with knotted backs of necks red with anger, he showed Brazil to
Spielberg, who actually loved it.
Three years earlier, Spielberg had gifted Universal what was then the top grossing movie
of all time in E.T. the Extraterrestrial.
No one had more pull at that studio or in all of Hollywood than Spielberg at the time.
According to Gilliam, I showed it to Steven, who was just blown away by it, and I was hoping

(01:13:21):
he was going to put a good word in, but it didn't quite work out that way.
Gilliam didn't elaborate in the interview, but it seems disappointing at first to think
that Spielberg apparently didn't have the back of a fellow auteur.
He could have put himself out front, like Scorsese or Tarantino have done on occasion
with difficult to market movies in the U.S., but that's never been his style.
Perhaps the darkness of Brazil clashed tremendously with his cheery populist aesthetic, but it

(01:13:45):
ended up working out in the long run because Gilliam's intransigence forced Universal
to release a filmmaker approved 132 minute cut in the U.S., while his final cut was ultimately
distributed by the Criterion Collection.
So I just thought that was interesting, that he tried to get, you know, he's having issues
with the studio, but you tried to appeal to Spielberg and Spielberg was like, you know

(01:14:05):
what, I love it, but I don't care.
I'm not going to help you.
Cool.
That's awesome.
Bye.
I gotta go.
Yeah.
It's the literal definition of the, oh no, anyway meme.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like one of those things, you can't expect somebody to put their neck out for somebody
like that, especially when it's such a big thing like that.
I mean, obviously it's kind of shitty.

(01:14:27):
I don't know.
Spielberg was huge by the mid-80s.
It wouldn't have cost Spielberg anything.
Yeah.
All he had to do was just be like, no, do it.
What if it flopped and that's on him, you know?
He's put out flops before, especially in the 80s.
Not at the time.
Not put out flops.
I mean, I'm sure he supported some that didn't do great.
Yeah.
Gilliam, from what I heard, apparently he just said, fuck all, and just showed a version

(01:14:52):
of the film with the original ending anyway, and then critics really loved it, and that
put the studio in a situation.
They were like, fuck, I guess we have to release it in the original ending.
So in the end, Gilliam played the system, and he got the last laugh.
And I think the film was financially successful anyway, right?
Let me check.
No, I just looked at that.

(01:15:12):
I don't think it was very expensive.
Was it not?
It was $15 million production budget, and its domestic box office was $9.9 million.
Damn.
That's domestic though.
What's worldwide?
Oh, worldwide was, sorry, I missed the other $5,000 that it made everywhere else.
Wait, what?
It didn't do well in the UK?

(01:15:33):
That's what it says.
International box office was $5,000.
Holy shit.
That's crazy.
What the fuck?
I would expect that to do great in Britain.
Maybe this website's not right.
I don't know.
I mean, Terry Gilliam's American, right?
No, he's British.
He's British American.
Is he?
Okay.
Yeah.
His gross is $9.9 million.
That's crazy.

(01:15:53):
Wow.
I'm so surprised because he's like a Monty Python guy.
Why wouldn't it?
If it only made $5,000, it must have barely been shown in Europe.
How many fucking theaters was it in?
It would have been a very exclusive, limited run, if anything.
You would make $5,000 by having it in a single theater for a year.

(01:16:17):
Movie gross, $20,818.
Can I just say that's got to be the craziest career trajectory ever.
You start out as a member of Monty Python and then you end as a critically acclaimed
bizarro filmmaker.
That's got to be some crazy ass career trajectory you got there.
Yeah.
It would be like the guy who unfortunately passed the whitest kids you know guy.

(01:16:42):
I think he was attempting-
Trevor Moore.
Yeah.
He was attempting to go on that kind of trajectory, I think.
Then he-
Kind of.
He was trying to go on movie.
He made Miss March and that was kind of it.
They were making another whitest kids you know movie, but I don't think they had another
movie planned.
Do you guys think Jordan Peele is kind of similar to Terry Gilliam in a way?

(01:17:03):
Because he started with the sketch comedy.
Yeah.
He started out and he liked Terry Gilliam.
He also started out in sketch comedy and then makes very interesting movies now.
Started on Mad TV, right?
How do you guys think he feels about Peele's success?
I'm sure they're fine.
Sure does not have a problem with him.
He's still acting stuff.
He's still ranking at money.
He gets tons of actors.

(01:17:23):
He's got tons of actors.
I'm sure he's also pretty rich, just not quite Jordan Peele rich.
But isn't it a dick move?
I think it's the opposite.
I'm sure he is the more financially successful of the two because he gets to be in all these
big blockbuster movies.
He's in the fucking Lion King shit.
Yeah.
Acting wise, Jordan Peele wasn't getting a lot of opportunities.

(01:17:46):
The last thing he was offered before he decided to quit acting and focus on directing was
playing the shit emoji in the emoji movie.
He wasn't getting a lot of opportunities.
He was the more-
Weren't they both in Fargo?
They both played the detectives in Fargo.
That show was funny.
Oh, I love the first couple of seasons of that show.
I haven't watched it.
But guys-

(01:18:07):
I think it was in season two.
Don't you think it's a dick move that Jordan Peele has become this insanely respected prestige
director and he hasn't fucking cast Key in any of these roles?
I'm sure if Key asked him, he would.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I guess he technically did that if you count Wendell and Wilde.
He didn't direct it, but he did write the script for that film.

(01:18:28):
They did that movie Keanu together that they both acted in.
That doesn't count.
Oh, the cat one, right?
Yeah.
That was still when they were doing their sketch comedy shit.
I wouldn't really call that a Jordan Peele movie.
I think as a good friend, Keegan-Michael Key would be like, if there's a role that actually
matches for me, hit me up.
More so, I'm sure he's not going to ask him if I can be shoehorned into a movie he doesn't

(01:18:52):
belong in.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think he would.
I will say though that I feel-
Oh, sorry.
Go ahead.
No, no.
I couldn't picture.
I'm picturing Get Out, Nope, and Us.
I'm like, I don't see maybe, maybe in Get Out, I could see-
I can see him in-
Like as a TSA agent or something.
Yeah.
That's what I was saying.

(01:19:13):
In every movie, he could have played the TSA agent in Get Out.
No, because that was the same age friend.
It was like a friend in the same age group.
I think the only guy he could have really played-
He doesn't look that old.
He doesn't look that old.
He does.
Wait, wait.
He could have been the TSA agent in Get Out.
He could have done Steven Yeun's character in Nope.
And he could in-
I don't think so.
What's the other one?
Us?

(01:19:34):
I don't know about that one.
I think-
Us, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't really recall that one.
I think in Nope, he could have been the fucking guy who comes and helps them investigate the
alien shit.
I think he could have played that role.
No, I like the fact that that guy was young.
I thought he was great as a younger-

(01:19:54):
He wasn't young.
Yeah, he was.
He seemed like he was in his early 20s.
No, no, no.
I'm talking about the guy who came down to help them.
The filmmaker?
Yeah, the tech guy.
Yeah, the son.
He was old.
Oh, the antler.
Yeah, the guy who's suicide at the end.
No, why not Steven Yeun?
I thought he could have done that.
No, Steven Yeun fucking killed that role.

(01:20:17):
He was easily blown from that or something.
I'm not saying he didn't.
I'm just saying he could have done it too.
That's all.
The only one where I can see him seamlessly fitting in is Get Out.
Yeah, like, Keegan-Michael Key is a lot of things, but he is not a versatile actor.
He's kind of like the rock in that he just plays either himself or a wacky version of
himself.
Yeah, because in Get Out, you have all the serious stuff going on with the white family

(01:20:42):
in the house.
And then every time it does cut back to Rodney, every time it cuts back to Rodney, the TSA
agent, it is straight up comedy.
So I'm like, I could see Keegan-Michael Key being a side character or when Rodney's pitching,
telling all the cops, they're hitting slaves or whatever.
I could see him fitting into one of those scenes fine.
Yeah, and Key is funny too.

(01:21:03):
That's what I'm saying, like, all right, you guys are saying that Key hasn't spread his
wings or whatever.
There's no better opportunity for him to spread his wings and get a transformative role than
to get cast in one of these fucking giant ass movies that his supposed best friend and
business partner is doing now.
Why doesn't he give him a chance?
I think it will happen whenever the right role comes up, is what I'm saying.

(01:21:25):
I don't think that it's like, I've not talked to him.
I've listened to a lot of interviews by Key and he seems like a really down to earth, like
very like normal ass guy.
No, you know what it is?
You know what it is guys?
Honestly, I think Jordan Peele is a snob.
I think he's like, that was-
He does have a snob aesthetic.
That was my old shit.
Like I can't be associated with Key anymore.

(01:21:46):
I'm an elevated horror director.
I'm an A24 man.
I don't even know if his movies are A24 actually, but he's like that kind of thing.
And he doesn't want-
He has his own now, it's Monkey Paw production.
He doesn't want to be associated with Key because he doesn't want to remind viewers that that's
what he used to do.
I think that's what it is.

(01:22:08):
And that pisses me off.
Yeah, he doesn't want to be remembered as the guy who said-
Said what?
That's a sketch that they did.
I didn't hear anything he said.
He completely went silent.
Yeah, he's the guy who said bitch.
He doesn't want to be remembered as the guy who said bitch or did Barack Obama.

(01:22:28):
He's the guy that says A A Ron.
It sounded like he doesn't want to be remembered as the guy who said-
That's all I heard.
The man who said everything.
That's my favorite quote is what he says.
But anyway, going back to Terry Gilliam, I was just going to say that I really respect
the guy in the sense that-
Wait, no, no.

(01:22:49):
I want to talk shit about Jordan Peele more.
Okay.
I'm just kidding.
I'm done.
I'm done.
Hold on.
If we do want to talk shit about Jordan Peele, I think two of his movies are fucking horrible
and one of them will be really good.
Which ones are horrible?
Everything that doesn't get out.
Damn, bro.
Listen, I think Nope is honestly grown on me.
That is my favorite movie he has done.

(01:23:10):
Same.
I really like it out and I think Us is in.
I think Us was so horrible.
I think Nope had a lot of cool shit and I'm not going to-
Why is Nope horrible?
I don't know.
It just didn't really do much for me.
Maybe I need to watch it again.
For me, what was really notable in Nope was the pacing.
That movie was masterfully paced.
It was a slow incline to that amazing fucking climax and I was gripped the entire time.

(01:23:36):
I love that actor.
David Kaluar or whatever the fuck his name is.
I think the moment I saw an Evangelion and Akira reference in the movie, all criticism
I had for the film just immediately went out the window and I was like, ooh, anime thing.
I know that.
I'm sad that they canceled Jordan Peele's Akira.

(01:23:58):
They gave it to him and they also gave it to Taika Waititi.
That's a fucking lie.
It didn't get canceled because he said no because unlike Taika Waititi, Jordan Peele's
not a fucking moron who thinks it's a good idea to make a live action version of Akira.
So no, I will not accept that.
I think it can be adapted.
I think they could adapt to Akira.
He was like, it was just too much and he's like-

(01:24:20):
Why don't you think Akira could be adapted?
Ask me.
You could ask that same question for any other shitty live action anime adaptations that's
ever existed.
Why can't you imagine a good ghost in the show movie happening?
Why can't you imagine a speed racer happening?
Like bro, what the fuck-
Speed racer was fucking sick, bro.
The speed racer movie was fucking sick.

(01:24:42):
All right.
So you're one of those guys.
Okay.
I mean, I'm not-
That movie was fucking sick.
Okay.
But I think Akira outside has some weird fucking body horror shit.
But I think most of it's like grounded pretty well in reality.
I think it would honestly be a really cool adaption.
Yeah.
Adaptation.
We have to start-
Yeah, we got to talk about the way you say adaptation.

(01:25:04):
I switch it up.
It's adaptation.
It's not adaption.
One's better.
One's shorter and easier to say, bro.
Adaptation.
Adaption.
I've been correcting on this already.
That doesn't sound like a real thing.
No, but you are correct that it actually is a word, but it's just not the word that's
generally agreed upon that people say.
So it's not technically wrong, but it sounds wrong.

(01:25:26):
It's so much easier to say.
Well, anyway.
Yeah.
Anyway, going back to Terry Gilliam for a second, I really respect the guy for just
sticking to his roots and just because he's a guy who's had to constantly fight to get
his movies made and to have them be the way that they are.
The story about, I haven't seen Man Who Killed Don Quixote, but I'm familiar with the story

(01:25:49):
of him trying to get Man Who Killed Don Quixote made for what?
10, 20-odd years or some shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the guy is very tenacious.
He's very persistent.
And at the end of the day, he's a true artist at the end.
He's not going to sacrifice his vision or his creativity for any dumb fucking Hollywood
studio.
And I really respect that.
So I definitely need to watch more of his films.

(01:26:11):
I've only seen two and I've seen parts of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
I liked what I saw, so I'll definitely watch the whole movie at some point.
And I wanted to, beforehand, I wanted to watch Time Bandits before I watched Brazil because
it's part of a trilogy supposedly according to Terry Gilliam, but I just didn't have the
time, but I'll definitely watch some of this stuff.

(01:26:33):
I haven't seen Time Bandits, but I watched Jabberwocky.
If you guys had to use Jeremy Johns' rating system to rate Brazil, would you give it an
awesome tackler?
What is his rating system?
I have to say, no one's insane.
Chris Stuckman has not rated this movie.
I mean, he only does new movies.
He just stopped rating movies in general.

(01:26:54):
No, he rates old movies now.
He like throws them in right every once in a while.
Well, all right.
So the options are awesome tackler, then it's worth buying on Blu-ray, then it's good time,
no alcohol required, then lower than that is a good time if you're drunk and then dog
shit.

(01:27:14):
No, there's a, I'm not going to remember this movie by T minus X days.
That's between dog shit and a good time if you're drunk.
So go.
I don't want to do this.
With that said, no Nick, you have to do it.
I feel like we're cheating on Chris Stuckman.
This isn't fair.
Wait, why don't you want to do it?

(01:27:36):
Because it's cringe, bro.
It's not fucking cringe, dude.
We're trying to, we're expanding our horizons.
When you're watching SLP punk and then it'll be just be much easier for you to swallow.
Jeremy John seems like a cool guy, but he's definitely the McDonald's of movie reviewers.
Whoa, bro.
Have you guys seen the clip where he did blackface?
Oh no.
He dressed up as Boyd.

(01:27:57):
Oh, who has not seen that?
Oh Jeremy, you silly man.
You silly, silly man.
Clip here.
Yeah.
Just fucking say it's awesome tackler.
But let's, okay, you all go for it.
You all go now.
I'm giving this five bunko towns out of 10.
No, dude, no, use the rating.

(01:28:18):
Use the Jeremy John's rating system.
Cool.
Come on.
It was awesome tackler.
All right, Tim, you go.
I'm giving this one a worth awesome tackler T minus if you're drunk dog shit.
Whoa.
That's like a, I don't even know as a respond to that, but I, yeah, I'm going to go awesome
tackler too.
I, I mean, I know we usually talk about Chris Stuckman.

(01:28:39):
I just felt like maybe this episode would be cool to talk about Jeremy John's.
That's all.
I think Jeremy John's is a, is a much more respectable film reviewer than Chris Stuckman
unfortunately.
I think he's a schmuck, but that's just me.
Damn.
What do you have against Jeremy John's, Tim?
Everything.
No, I don't hate the guy.
I do know he should fucking switch out his fucking leather jacket for something else.

(01:29:01):
Some other type of fucking comfort wear.
Yeah.
So yeah, this, yeah, this movie is very much made for me.
This is very much a me movie.
It's a Timmy movie.
This very much appeals to every sensibility I have, I guess.
Every interest I have.
It would, if it just had animated hits, it would be even better.
It would even be more perfect than it already is.

(01:29:23):
I think this is a momentous occasion where it's the only movie me and Tim will both give
a Tim to in the history of the world.
So that's right.
That'll never happen again.
Yeah.
So I feel a little bad.
Why?
In my Jeremy John's light because it's like more orange.

(01:29:43):
So I feel like I was in the wrong head space to watch this movie.
I started it and as it was getting into it, I was like, fuck, this is like really heady.
I'm really tired right now.
And I looked at the runtime and it was like two hours 40, something like that.
Or maybe it was less than that.
Somebody made a video about that recently.
But it was like, I was just like, damn, I am not in the right head space for this.

(01:30:05):
I could like watch it and see and appreciate all of the symbolism and all of the themes.
The sets are amazing, everything like that.
But I was like, damn it, I'm like really not in the mood to enjoy a movie like this.
And I finished it and I was like, that was really good like objectively.
But I was like, I don't know.
I just couldn't, I couldn't really get into it.
So it's like, it's an eight out of 10 right now, but that'll a hundred percent go up

(01:30:27):
and I watch it again when I'm in a better head space.
But that's, I just want to say that.
So in other words, it's worth buying on Blu-ray.
It's worth buying on Criterion Collection.
Okay.
Yeah, that's the new thing now.
That's, that's, that's no more, not even Blu-ray anymore.
We're going to have to come up with our own rating system.
We need to stop relying on these hacks.
Worth buying on 4K.
These YouTube hacks.

(01:30:47):
We need to make our own system.
Yeah, I'll make a system.
Do you guys collect Criterion?
No, I don't have one.
I want to.
I have a bunch.
Yeah, I want to.
It's just, yeah, it's just, I'm poor and I don't have a 4K Blu-ray player.
Well, most of them are just Blu-ray, standard Blu-ray.
Because, all right, so Nick just made a video about how bad movies are better than good

(01:31:09):
movies.
And, you know, that's just, that's just the title.
I mean, the argument is a lot different than that.
But one thing that I didn't hear you really cover in your video is the fact that like,
basically your argument hinged around a lot of what, what Ethan just said.
That you tell it was a great movie, but he just wasn't in the head space to take in something
this heady or whatever.

(01:31:29):
You know, he wasn't in the mood for that.
I'm a big dumb dummy.
I mean, well, that's, I feel that way too sometimes.
But I'm just saying.
That's more about the pressure to-
Wait, wait, wait.
Go ahead, sorry.
So that is, that the thing about that is you didn't really mention the fact that there
are good movies that are light and easy to consume.
Like I don't know, When Harry Met Sally or Slew, Walk Hard, Slew of Comedies.

(01:31:53):
Groundhog Day.
Yeah, movies like that, that are good, that are good, that are trying to be funny, that
are way more fun to watch than these stupid ass movies that are bad on-
Those don't contribute to my argument.
No, but your argument kind of falls apart when you think about the fact that there are
movies that you can enjoy that are good, that are light and, you know, comfort the movies.
I agree with you, but I think a lot of movies that are very like, well regarded, like in

(01:32:17):
like the cinephile world are very like heady movies that like have a lot of meaning and
depth to them.
No, I'm not talking about those.
I'm talking about Walk Hard.
That's what I was talking about in the movie though.
I'm talking about Walk Hard.
In the video.
It's like a fucking 40 year old virgin like movie, you know, Tim hates that movie, but
most people love it.
I love it.
You know, it's like a-
I think, I think, I think the reason I didn't mention comedies and I did think about that

(01:32:40):
was simply because it's more so the video was about my taste more so than like objectively
what everybody else is going to agree with.
So maybe everybody, maybe instead of bad movies for somebody else, it's comedy movies, right?
Like, I think you can insert your own feeling and still understand my like argument against
these like good movies.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?

(01:33:00):
Cause that's, that's where I find my solace is watching good dog shit movies where somebody
else may be like, I'm going to go watch some fucking Judd Apatow movies.
Yeah.
But you must all, I mean, do you just watch bad movies all the time?
Like do you watch bad movies more often than good movies?
Yeah, probably.
Well, I mean, I'll point out one.
I just, it just happened.

(01:33:22):
Like I don't know if I entirely agree if better, if shitty movies are better than good movies
or whatever the argument was.
I watched the video, good video, but like there's something so special about sitting
down and showing my wife the happening for the first time.
That's like lightning in a bottle.
My goodness.

(01:33:42):
I've never had so much fun watching a movie.
It's so fucking bad.
Yeah.
It's a masterpiece in doing everything wrong.
And that it, it's just got some of the funniest line reads from Mark Wahlberg that I've ever
heard.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess I just, I just don't get it.
I don't know.
I don't know if I agree that there, I did leave out some things, but I just didn't want to

(01:34:05):
get too far into the weeds, like explaining everything like that.
Yeah.
I feel you.
I mean, what do you want a young person?
I don't know where I was going with that.
I just wanted to excuse the zoomers.
Yes.
Speak for all zoomers.
I mean, I'm a zoomer too, but I'll let Tim do it because he's younger.
As the kids say, don't skibbity Riz, Jojo Siwa, Riz Palace, Snack Lord, Beefcake.

(01:34:40):
You guys don't play Fortnite after this?
Don't you mean stream Charles White Fortnite skibbity TikTok?
Don't you mean that?
Is League of Legends for old people now?
Is it like an old person game?
League of Legends is for people that hate themselves.
Yeah.

(01:35:01):
It's for losers and people who want to commit suicide.
So it's still for young people.
It's just for young people who like want to die as well.
Yeah.
And then Overwatch is for people who watch a lot of porn.
All right.
I think we've wrapped up here.
Thank you everybody for watching.
Before I do a little outro.

(01:35:22):
I was going to say, I was going to say it's we're doing a thing.
We're recommending movies each at the end of each episode.
Fuck you.
We're doing a thing where at the end of each episode, one of us recommends a movie, whether
it be from their watch list or just something that they want the other people to enjoy or
just because they feel like it.

(01:35:45):
They're going to recommend a movie.
We're going to watch it and then we're going to talk about it next episode as well as other
shit.
So today it's culture next turn.
Yeah.
And wait, wait.
So before you do the outro, Ethan, I just want to say, initially I was going to say
we should do Exorcist 3.
But are you changing it?
I want to change it to Trainspotting 2.

(01:36:07):
Has everyone seen Trainspotting?
I haven't seen the first Trainspotting.
I watched it once and I didn't really like it that much.
So you might as well just recommend Trainspotting 1 and 2.
Is that okay?
Yeah, that's fine.
I mean, I have to anyway because I've never seen the first Trainspotting.
So I have to do that anyway.

(01:36:28):
As long as everyone's cool with that.
I really want to talk about that too, but we can talk about that.
We can just talk about Trainspotting.
It's a great two movies.
If you guys don't want to be spoiled for Trainspotting 1 and 2, wait, doesn't he fucking call them
T2?
It's called T2 Trainspotting.
Terminator 2 Trainspotting.
I don't know.
It's a horrendous title.
If you don't want to be spoiled for Trainspotting 1 or Terminator 2, you better watch them before

(01:36:52):
next episode.
If you enjoyed this episode on whatever podcast listening platform, use Apple Podcast Spotify.
Please leave us a rating.
If you're on YouTube, leave us a like.
Let us know if this was an awesome, tacky podcast.
And that's about it everybody.
Get Stuckmonized.
Barnyard.
Yay.
John dlore.com