Hate to Interrupt - EP 021 | Upstream Color & iPhones - Hate to Interrupt

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
No, because it was very clear from the beginning that Lil Wayne was obviously trying to get

(00:12):
the Super Bowl slot.
He grew up in New Orleans, he's been a New Orleans artist his entire life.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, listen, listen, listen.
I hate to interrupt.
But welcome to Hate to Interrupt, episode 21.
I am Gullif, the introductory guy and over this culture.
I'm Nick from Stop Culture, Lil Wayne Aficionado.
I'm VHS guy Nick, VHS guy official on YouTube.

(00:36):
And we're gonna have a quick announcement this episode.
So unfortunately, just due to some personal differences, Timmy is unfortunately leaving
the pod.
And I don't know, just sending that announcement out there into the ecosystem.
Okay, yeah, we had a good time doing the pod with Tim, but it was kind of a mutual thing.

(01:01):
We decided to go in different directions.
But anyway, for this episode of the podcast, we're gonna be discussing Shane Carruth's
2013 film, very experimental, kind of like an art film, I would say, Upstream Color.
And then we got a couple other topics that we're gonna get into after.
But this was Ethan's recommendation.

(01:23):
So what made you want to recommend this?
This was mine.
So Shane Carruth has been a filmmaker that I've heard about specifically from his probably
more popular film, Primer, which I have not seen.
I've seen that one.
I've seen that one.
Okay, okay, cool.
Because I know I was like, I've heard it's the one or one of the only time travel films
where they actually make sense for like how the time travel functions.

(01:44):
And it's also like, I think it was like $5,000 budget.
It's made like pennies.
What do you mean?
Avengers Endgame totally made sense, dude.
Oh, that's true.
Yeah.
Primer's impressive more so than it is good, I would say.
Okay, I still want to watch it.
I liked it.
I enjoyed it.
Yeah.
But I just knew that this was his second movie.

(02:06):
And we're doing kind of romance themed type vaguely centered movies.
And I was like, you know what, this is on my list.
It's an incredibly low budget.
I think the budget's like 50 to 100k.
And it was shot on a GH2 camera, which is like a handheld camera.
I think I have that right.
So I was like, you know what?
Sure, let's do this.

(02:26):
I don't really know anything.
So I'm going to go in blind.
And it's weird.
Very weird.
So I have, I kind of have something, something on this.
So I found a striking resemblance of this movie to this other movie that we've kind
of mentioned every once in a while on the podcast.
And that's, that came to my head whenever I heard this line in the movie.
I have a disfigurement where my head is made of the same material as the sun.

(02:52):
And this made me think of this one scene in this little indie movie by Tommy Wiseau where
she goes, I got the test results back and I definitely have breast cancer.
That alongside with fucking Shane Carruth's acting, like, oh my fucking god.
You didn't like his acting?

(03:13):
He's so bad.
I thought he was all right.
He is so bad.
Wait, wait, Nick, contextualize that.
Cause you mentioned that line.
I was like, what?
Because it made no sense.
What part of the movie was it though?
The sun line?
This is at the beginning when the main character is being, it's when the girl gets the maggot
into her stomach and then she's like at the apartment and it's basically his way of tricking

(03:36):
her being like, listen, my head is made of the sun.
So it's really hard to look at.
So you can't look directly at me.
And then you get that really cool shot where she turns away and the like, the bulb gets
really bright on her face.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It was basically, I don't think that was bad.
I think it was like the character, the fucking scumbag.
It was very, very cringy writing.

(03:56):
It's one of those lines where I'm like, he's done this like 40 times.
It's like a script he's following.
So he's saying it with like no emotion and anything.
I was dying laughing when I heard it.
I'm not saying like, be that as it may, it's fine.
Like I don't, it doesn't make me hate the movie or anything, but I was literally laughing
out loud whenever I heard that line.
My whole thing with this movie is like, I really, conceptually, I thought it was very

(04:18):
cool.
I thought the larva mind control plot device was really interesting.
I just felt like it was a little bit too mumblecore for me.
I like mumblecore movies a lot, but I felt like a movie like this, it has to rope you
in to really, I don't know, care about these characters and they're so fucking just like,

(04:42):
ugh.
There's no emotion to any of these characters really.
So like 40 minutes in, I was like, okay, it's picking up a little bit.
Cause I was waiting for that the entire time and I was like, okay, it's finally here.
For the viewers, does anybody want to attempt at trying to fucking explain the plot of this
film?
Yes, I can do this.
So, Upstream Color is about a main character who gets essentially like a date rape drug.

(05:09):
Although its functions are very different, it basically allows you to become highly suggestible.
And this guy who manufactures this serum that he gives people, gives it to her.
She takes it and essentially over the course of I think a few weeks or a month or something,
she gives away all of her money to him, withdraws all of her bank accounts, sells all of her

(05:29):
property, basically ruins her entire life giving money to this guy and then leaves.
And from then on, she is mentally affected and her mind is kind of opened in a way and
connected through this weird parasitic larva and she meets another character who has had
a similar history and it's through their ties that they kind of have to unravel this mystery

(05:50):
of what this is and how to stop it from happening.
And yeah, it's, yeah.
And there's paint.
Yeah.
So, basically there's this weird, the whole movie follows this weird cycle where basically
this drug that this guy uses to take advantage of people grows, like is taken from these

(06:10):
worms that grow near this special flower that only grows near the dead body of these pigs.
And the pigs are made from this guy inserting the worms that were inserted into the people
back into the pigs.
And then he just drowns the pigs and they float down to the river where these flowers
grow.
Like it's the most contrived shit in the entire fucking world.

(06:33):
It's one of those things where it sounds insane when you try to explain the mechanics, but
the way that I think the way they show it and the way you have to kind of figure it
out yourself is more so what makes it engaging for me.
Because it was like a puzzle you're trying to figure out.
But my problem, my biggest problem with this movie is it's very much a movie.
So like, okay, if we look, if we take a look at primer, which I guess you all haven't,

(06:54):
you haven't seen primer.
Yeah, but primer is very much a movie that you're meant to think about and try to piece
everything together to really understand it.
Like, but, but I feel like all of the information you actually need to understand primer is
hidden in the film.
Like there, there's a way to break down that movie and actually understand what happens.
And this movie, it's very much made in a way that you're not supposed to have all the answers.

(07:19):
And to understand this movie is to make that decision yourself what to believe.
And I find that, this is a personal opinion.
I find that to be very, very lazy and lame.
Because I want, I want the answers of the film to be in the film.
I don't want to have to decide what to take from the film based on my own beliefs.
You don't like any ambiguity in film?

(07:41):
I'm not a big fan of it personally.
So what was like, what did you not understand in this?
Well first of all, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp.
Well I understand the actual premise of the movie, but like the, like first of all, the
guy, the, the like pig guy, he, his whole situation made no fucking sense.
It was like, it was literally like, you'd have to make up so many like, like ideas in

(08:03):
your head as to why he's drowning these pigs in the water and like why he's putting these
worms inside of people.
Like he felt like a plot device that I need to decide in my head why he exists and why
he's doing these things.
Well he's not putting the worms into people.
He's taking them out of people.
The other guy's putting them into people.
And putting them into the pigs.
Yeah, the pigs.
Where does the cycle actually start?

(08:23):
Is it?
I think the point is that there is no, it's like a chicken and the egg type thing.
There is no real.
The piglet in the larva.
But that's my point.
The piglet in the larva.
But that's my point though, is like I shouldn't have to tie all these loose ends on my own.
I should, it should be in the movie.
You know, there should be somewhere I can understand this.
I get what you're saying.
I understand because I think it was about halfway, a little past the halfway point,

(08:43):
I was starting to be like, all right, I'm getting really confused and I'm not getting
a lot of answers.
And then I think it was in the last five to 10 minutes when everything kind of like clicked.
I was like, okay, all right, if I can get what you're doing.
Like I don't know.
I think it was fun.
Like to have essentially being sitting there just trying to figure it out.
And also you have that like, I love the mechanic of the pigs will go through something and

(09:05):
then you have the main characters will just be like, I feel like I'm trapped right now.
Like I'm like having a panic attack.
And it's like, cause they're like mentally connected to the larvas that are in the pigs.
It's I think so cool.
Like I think the movie is cool.
Like I think there's a lot of cool elements to this movie.
It's just, it's like, it's, it's that like, cause that, that on a baseline level, just

(09:25):
like movies kind of leaving a lot of ambiguity and things for me to kind of piece together
myself outside of like what's presented to me, that bothers me.
And then also like, I just, I wish the performances were stronger in the film too.
So like, but like it's annoying cause the movie was shot, shot well.
It looked really nice.
Yeah.
But I mean the movie, the movie is really highly reminiscent of a Terrence Malick tree

(09:47):
of life, which I know Nick you've seen that, right?
I haven't seen tree of life, but I've heard a lot of people say that.
And the thing is like tree of life.
I love that's one of my favorite movies actually.
And I really didn't really like this movie that much.
And I think, not really.
And the main difference I think between tree of life and this is that yes, it's still,
it's very, it's very dreamlike.

(10:07):
Like you're getting snapshots of the, of both of their lives and everything of, of,
you know, the specific main characters of each story, but it still feels like tree of
life really gives you an emotional center to care.
There are powerful performances in that movie.
There's powerful moments that make you feel things.
And in this movie, it's like these characters, I mean, they're literally, I guess being mind

(10:29):
controlled, so they're kind of not really in control of their actions.
Right.
I mean, for a lot of it, or at least they're trying to figure out who is controlling their
actions or whatever.
But yeah, I don't know, man.
It was, it, this, this was pretty, it was a slog to get through for me.
I was, I was having a hard time.
I think that's a really good, I think that's a really good example.
Cause like, for me, it like felt like it was, this movie was an attempt for him to make

(10:51):
us kind of like feel something as opposed to like, like have like a, like he had a really
good idea for like a plot of a film, right?
Like he wanted to make us feel something, but I didn't really feel much from it, you
know?
And tree of life does do that, but better.
It also kind of reminded me of like, like a Philip K Dick book or something, like, like
a scanner darkly, but worse.
You know what I mean?

(11:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I could see that.
Yeah.
Scanner, scanner darkly is such, we should talk about that one time, but, um, I mean,
did you really like it, Ethan?
I really liked this.
I, I, yeah, I'm sitting like, I know we're, you haven't done scores yet, but I'm like
an eight out of eight out of 10.
I want to watch it again.
I've seen it twice at this point.
Cause I was like, all right, I get what you're doing.
But then I rewatched it this morning, like rewatch slash listen to it this morning after

(11:36):
I'd already seen it, just to kind of like go into, which is very hard because there's
very little dialogue in this movie.
Uh, yeah, but yeah, no, I really like what it's going for.
I like sure the characters aren't a hundred percent, but I think there's enough there
for me to bite onto.
Like I really liked the detail when they start first meeting up and talking and you just

(11:58):
get that small moment of her pulling out the pills and putting them on the table and being
like, Oh yeah, this is what I'm taking.
Cause my life is like fucked.
And it's like, you can assume that her life has been just completely demolished in the
last few months.
Um, I just like little details like that.
They don't have to bring a bunch of attention to it.
Um, uh, I, I did notice actually there was a specifically for Shane Cruz character, which

(12:20):
I think his name is like Jeff.
It's with, yeah.
Um, I think there was some weird ADR, but I think that also just comes into working
with the low budget that they were given.
Um, I mean, I think it's like entirely self-funded.
I think the movie looked pretty good, but like a big part of the issue for me is like,

(12:41):
because there weren't like, there weren't a lot of dialogue scenes and like what you're
kind of saying.
A lot of it did kind of feel like random B roll like for like large portions of the movie.
It just felt like they were just throwing B roll in there.
Like, and it didn't really, it felt, and it was kind of chopped together in kind of a
weird order too.
So it kind of just felt a little bit aimless and like with just the visual portion of it.

(13:04):
It like, it felt aimless to me, but then it didn't once I kind of had answers.
Like I was like, okay, you're showing me weird stuff.
The only thing I don't really have a definitive answer for that I'm like still unsure of is
the guy running, who was like taking care of the pigs.
I don't really know what the whole sound obsession was of him going around, like creating sounds.

(13:26):
And then I know they link, I know they link that back.
And I also love, I love how they edited that whole thing where he's like making sounds
and then it shows him on the mixer mixing them.
And then that plays into the soundtrack and edits back and forth.
I just, that was so good.
But I don't really know what that was going for other than having it tie back in later
where the characters are recreating the sounds they've been hearing.
So I'm not sure.

(13:47):
That's the one thing I'm unsure of.
This is one of those films where like, I think it shows a lot of promise for like the director.
Like I think he's, I think he's a really solid director.
I just, first of all, he shouldn't have cast himself for that.
Cause I think the actress was actually pretty decent.
I think they were dating.
I think that's why they were, they were both dating.
But she was actually pretty good.
I don't, I don't necessarily think she was bad.
I just think Amy Simons, I think her name is.

(14:08):
Yeah.
If anything, it's the direction for me.
It's the fact that they're both just so monotone throughout the entire film.
It was really, really difficult for me to get invested in either of their stories.
Despite the fact that, like I said, I felt like conceptually it's such a cool thing to
have this guy who's drugging them with this fucking weird larva drug that controls their

(14:31):
mind and then he like drains their bank accounts.
That was really cool.
And then, you know, the cyclical thing about it too, how I guess the larva, you know, you
don't really know where it starts, but the fact that the pigs are involved in it somehow
and they gestates inside the pigs and goes through the water and becomes the orchids.
Like that is cool.
It's just like, it really, it didn't really click for me as a movie altogether.

(14:54):
I will say there are certain visual things that I really liked.
Like how when she's, when you see the worms like crawling through her skin and that's
kind of mirrored by her like flailing around on the bed and her arms are kind of being
worm like.
I thought that was cool.
And they do that like once they're both together in bed too.
There's a lot of cool things like that in the movie.

(15:15):
I liked it.
I didn't, I didn't love it.
I think it was cool.
I'm happy I watched it.
I'm like, it's a good recommendation for sure.
And something worth kind of seeing.
It's very interesting.
That's what I, yeah, that's my biggest takeaway.
Yeah.
And I think, I wish I would have gathered some info on it, but I heard that Shane Carruth
had some weird shit happen to him.
Like he's kind of a piece of shit.

(15:35):
All I know is that the, the actress in this, Amy Simits, I think her name is, I think I
already said it.
Yeah.
Amy Simits, they were dating and in 2018 she got a temporary restraining order for abusive
tendencies.
And then in 2020 it became a permanent restraining order.
But there, and then Shane Carruth has had no comments on such.
So, so he doesn't seem like he'd be a great guy.

(15:57):
And I've also heard he said some like, like just weird shit about the film industry in
general.
I think he's kind of got himself blacklisted.
He's a very indie guy.
Yeah.
He also said, I think it was like, he's seems more just frustrated that like he had funding
for a movie called like the last wave or something.
It was like, or maybe like the big wave.
And it was like Anne Hathaway was going to be in it and some big names, but the funding

(16:21):
kept like falling through and like not getting finalized.
And he was just like pissed off because this guy makes like one movie every decade.
He made this in 2013 and then he made primer in 2006 or seven.
And he's had another movie in the works for forever.
But yeah, I, yeah.
I mean, another interesting character.
It's kind of, this film kind of has like a Donnie Darko syndrome going on where there's

(16:45):
just like, it kind of, it, it, it gets weighed down, bogged down by the weight of its own
mythology that it's trying to create, you know, whereas like, I mean, Nick, you sent
that like photo thing that the cycle in the group chat or whatever.
And that, that was definitely, was that fan made or that was, seemed like it was made
by the production.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah.
So like the Donnie, Donnie Darko also did stuff like that.

(17:07):
And it's like, if you, if you need to sell that kind of stuff or to hand it out in tandem
with it, with your release, like it may be a little bit too much going on in, in the
person.
I think the ambiguity in Donnie Darko is what sells it for me at least.
Like I think, I think like a, if you watch the director's cut where it explains fucking
everything, like that ruins the fucking movie for me, the theatrical cut where every like

(17:29):
actually everything isn't explained.
I think it gives you enough there to kind of like piece yourself, piece it together
yourself more so than this movie does.
But I see what you're talking about.
I mean, Donnie Darko is the, the theatrical cut is still incredibly ambiguous though.
I mean, that's what I'm talking about.
But like the, you mean the director's cut, the director's cut adds a bunch of like explanation

(17:50):
to everything.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I know the director's cut is, is basically, is kind of leaning towards more, more of this
film.
I mean, this film didn't have like the, the cutaways and every, you know, remember the
director's cut, it had all those like, Oh, there was like pages that you had to read
that they would cut in between scenes.
It was, it was a lot, you know, I didn't like that.
It doesn't have that much going on, but it's still a lot.

(18:11):
You know, yeah.
Once you, it's interesting.
Cause like, once I've laid out all the details, like about the actual story structure, it
doesn't seem like that complicated.
It's not super, it's not that complicated, but it also, it, it doesn't make much sense.
And that's my problem.
In like what way?

(18:32):
The entirety of the pig guy makes no sense to me.
Like why is he drowning pigs in the river?
Well, cause he's drowning them because their bodies decay and then it mixes into the water
and then it goes into the roots of the tree and grows flowers.
As far as, as far as what's made available in the story, he has no idea that any of this
is going on.
Oh, I think it's, I assumed he was like a part of this whole like group that, you know,

(18:53):
the people that collect the flowers, then they send that off to the guy that makes the
maggots and then he does the whole thing where he tricks people.
And then the maggots people, all the people, the maggots in them.
I think he's a completely separate third party.
And then all the people with the maggots go, he lures the people with the sounds from his
speakers.
And then he takes out the maggots.
He transplants them into the pig, raises them, they have piglets, he drops the piglets in,

(19:16):
they die.
It's that, that's the cycle.
And I feel like he is a part of that.
Cause once he's done, the cycle breaks, like the people at the very end are like, what
the, what the hell, we don't have any more.
And I don't think the people who gather the things know that he's the cause for that.
I think they're all completely separate.
That's the whole point though.
I don't think so.
Cause they looked, they were like confused, like where the fuck are my blue flowers?
You know, and they're sending the flowers to the, to the guy who makes the worms.

(19:40):
Exactly.
They don't know where they were like, where are the flowers?
Because the other guy, they didn't even know he existed.
He didn't know he was the reason that the flowers existed.
I just interpreted it as like, I don't know, they're all working as like a, like a company
essentially, like a small business that commits fraud.
Wait, do you think it's, is it possible that he's the power of his sick hipster beats or

(20:05):
what's creating the psychoactive properties of these, these larvas?
Hell yeah.
Possibly.
That would be fucking awesome if he was like a hipster pied piper, you know?
That made the story make a little bit more sense to me.
He's leading all the yuppies to their, their demise and their bank accounts being drained.
But our different, but our, like that's the problem.
See, like, I don't think either of us can necessarily be proven wrong on our point by

(20:28):
this film.
Yeah.
I think with, with what's in, what information is available in the movie, either of us could
technically be right.
And that's my problem with, that's my problem with.
I love that.
There's different interpretations.
It's art, man.
We're talking about art here.
You're a singular interpretation kind of guy.
You only like one interpretation.
I want, well, no, I want the person who made a movie to have a vision and I want them to

(20:51):
make that vision come to life.
And I feel like this, he didn't necessarily have a complete vision.
So you wanted to show up at the credits and be like, thank you for watching my listen
up.
Here's what happened.
If you did not take this, you are a idiot.
And I wish you didn't watch the movie actually.
Yeah.
I just, I don't know.

(21:12):
I just, to me it reeks of like not being able to come up with a concrete idea in the writing
phase.
I think it's a solid idea.
What is he really trying to say with it?
Because I mean, it definitely goes for a happy, like vegan ass type of ending where the ultimate,
the moral of the story here is that really what we want, what all the viewers wanted

(21:36):
was just a happy life for all these piglets.
No one wants to see a little, you know, Winnie the Pooh's friends fucking drowning in a stream
in a burlap sack.
So if we can get a PETA type, you know, Pamela Anderson type ending where the pigs are being
taken care of, everyone's joining up at the pig farm because of Walden for some reason

(21:57):
and then everyone's happy.
I mean, what is that?
Is he trying to say something about like, I don't know, taking control of their trauma
or something and like recontextualizing it?
I think it's part of that.
Yeah.
I think it's like free will.
Yeah.
I think it's like how much your life is impacted from external sources and like how much of

(22:19):
like who you are is based on like how other things impact you.
Yeah.
And how I took it.
And since it's Valentine's, it's almost Valentine's Day, it's about power of love.
Wait, so is this movie like marketed as a romance film?
I don't think so.
It is, I think.
But I just saw that there were, I just saw, I was like, they're a couple in the movie

(22:39):
and I saw that it's like a weird sci-fi romance.
Yeah.
I mean, the poster kind of has that vibe where they're both laying in the bathtub and everything.
I mean, so there's an indisputable psychic bond that happens between all of the people
who take the larva, right?
Because that was a cool thing about it when they started, they were actually doing, they

(23:03):
were doing Call Me By Your Name.
Did you hear that?
They were like, Chris, wait, no, I'm Chris.
Remember that?
Yeah.
They were like having the memories where they were just like, that was, I knew that kid
who pushed me down the water slide or whatever and they're like, no, no, no, that was me.
I grew up, I loved, I don't, I think that was so funny.
That was super interesting.
That was when I was starting to be like, what the fuck is happening?
But it made sense once you get to the-

(23:24):
I was waiting for the peach pit to fucking pop out.
I was like, who's busting in a peach?
I want to see if I can, Chalmé bust out into a peach in this movie.
That would, that would, that would make me go from a five to an eight if they had a scene
like that.
Yeah.
I'm like a five and a half on it probably.
I think I like the male maybe a little more than you.

(23:45):
I just, I don't know.
Yeah, it was definitely, it was an interesting watch for sure.
I just, I kept on really asking the movie to like give me a reason to care about the
character, the characters beyond just being, having like a vague level of intrigue and
what all of the plot mechanics are.

(24:08):
And it didn't, it never really gave me that even by, even by the end.
That's fair.
You know, so I was kind of just like, it's okay.
I saw Primer a while ago.
I remember liking that one.
So maybe I'll give that another watch.
Does that have a good emphasis on characters or is that more of like a mechanics based
story?
It's the, the characters don't really matter in Primer that much.

(24:29):
But is it like, would you say Primer is one of those stories where you're like, I don't
need the characters to be strong.
I just want the story to be engaging.
I think there's a lot more intrigue in it.
And I think you're like, I think it like makes you want to understand things more than this
movie.
Okay.
Yeah.
I barely remember it.
I saw it a long time ago.
We gotta talk about Primer.
The early 2000s, right?
It's an old movie.
It's 2006, I think.
Yeah.

(24:49):
I don't remember it that much.
Interesting, interesting detail.
I read, oh, 2004.
I read that he, when Ryan Johnson finished writing Looper, he sent the script to Shane
Carruth because they were both like indie guys.
And Shane Carruth was like, the time travel fucking sucks.

(25:10):
It makes no sense.
In Looper?
In Looper.
And he's like, time travel sucks.
And then Ryan Johnson was like, well, it's too late.
I can't really.
The script's done.
I didn't like Looper very much.
I thought Looper was cool.
I liked Looper.
I thought it was cool, but like, no.
I remember the scene when they're talking, when Bruce Willis is talking to fucking Joseph

(25:32):
Gordon-Levitt in the diner.
That's fucking unironically epic scene when he's like, he's talking to his younger self
and he's like, dude, you're a fucking idiot.
You have no idea.
I would love the chance to talk to my younger self and be like, you're a piece of shit.
You have no idea what's coming, buddy.
Just wait.
I think the concept was cool.

(25:55):
But have y'all seen Ryan Johnson's first movie, Brick, with a-
No, that was with a-
Joseph Gordon-Levitt?
Yeah.
I have not seen it.
That movie fucking, very fucking good.
We've covered on this before, but I'm tired of the Ryan Johnson hate train.
There's a gravy train online where everyone fucking hates on Ryan Johnson for some reason.

(26:20):
I actually got into a fucking argument with someone in our Discord who is, they were so
mad that, remember the part in Knives Out when he's like, the woman's like, Hugh did
this.
They thought that was like the worst thing to ever happen in a movie.
It totally broke the plot mechanics, the logic mechanics or whatever of the movie.

(26:40):
It's kind of goofy, but that's it.
They were like, everyone calls him Ransom the whole time and then she says Hugh.
I'm like, well, she's fucking dying.
She's dying.
She's on her last breath.
She's going to say whatever's quicker.
I didn't personally love that movie, but also I don't hate Ryan Johnson.
I think The Last Jedi is a dog shit, but I don't hate him as a person.

(27:02):
I think he's directed some good Breaking Bad episodes.
I think Brick was good.
I think Looper was serviceable.
Knives Out, for that, it's just like-
Why the fuck did you tell me who the fucking murderer is like 30 minutes into the fucking
movie?
They don't tell you 30 minutes in.
It felt really early.
Yeah, they do.
They tell you.
They solve the murder for you, basically.

(27:26):
Then you find out that there's like Ransom is the ultimate- Spoilers.
Ransom is the kind of ultimate villain of it, but not because he killed the guy.
Oh, I see what you guys are talking about.
With the whole maid that makes up in the morphine.
Yeah.
I liked that because from the beginning I was like, okay, but there's still something
going on.
Then by the time you get to the second part, you're like, okay, there has been some meddling

(27:49):
with shit.
I don't know.
I liked it.
I can see the appeal.
It's more one of those things where I watched it also right after The Last Jedi and I was
just like, oh my God.
Again, I'm just not getting what I expected just to fucking be different.
It just felt annoying.
Dude, Shane Carrew telling Ryan Johnson that the time travel mechanic suck reminds me of
when if I would put out a video and be like, Nick, what do you think of this thumbnail?

(28:11):
He's like, fuck, it sucks, dude.
But I'm just like, it's too late, bro.
It's already up.
Sorry.
I didn't say that, bro.
I never said it sucked.
I just said change the color.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I have a- This is kind of an interesting topic that I've been thinking
about for at least like a week now.

(28:34):
It's the fact that I don't know if we've talked about this privately, but I don't know if
you guys have been given it any thought, but it's pretty interesting phenomenon that I'm
noticing that basically all of the best directors in Hollywood right now have very little to
almost no interest in telling movies that are set in the modern era, like post 2010.

(28:58):
So what I did was I gathered up the filmographies of, what is this, like 10, 11 directors, like
top brass Hollywood directors to just see how many of them are actually telling stories
about the present day.
So I rounded up Scorsese, Tarantino, Eggers, Nolan, Luca Guadagnino, Spielberg, Ridley

(29:19):
Scott, Yorgos Lanthimos, Coen Brothers, PTA, and Denis.
And for their entire post 2010 output, only 85% of the films that they've made are not
set in the present day.
And that kind of coincides with this quote that's been going around from Robert Eggers
where he's like, the idea of having to photograph a car, I mean, he takes it farther because

(29:42):
he doesn't want to even have a fucking car in his movie.
Makes him ill.
Yeah, but like the idea of photographing a cell phone is just death is what he says.
And I think that's kind of where this all stems from, like the concept or the challenge
of depicting the most common mode of communication for millennials and zoomers and basically everybody

(30:03):
nowadays is fucking texting.
And texting is like the most uncinematic action that you can do on screen.
So I mean, I don't know, I'll pose a question to you guys.
Like, why do you think that is?
Why is nobody making, why are all these guys not interested in telling stories about today?
I think it's two things.
One, all these, most of these motherfuckers are old as shit.
That's what I was thinking.

(30:24):
They're old.
And they probably have this like thing in their head where older days are better.
That's one.
Also, I think that I just, I think that if there, a lot of them are probably trying to
base things around like big events that happened in time, like are in a time period of something
happening in time.
And I think having more separation from those events makes it easier, an easier topic to

(30:47):
touch on.
And it's not like something that people are directly living in right now.
And I mean, I definitely don't think texting is very cinematic.
I agree with you there.
I think, I think texts, like, especially whenever they try to like make that shit like show
up on screen, like showing you like the screen on camera, like having the pop up.
I hate that.
I think it's really difficult.
I don't think that, I think these are great directors and I think if they really needed

(31:10):
to make it work somehow, they would find a way around it to make it look cinematic.
So I don't know that it necessarily has to do with avoiding modern times specifically.
I mean, I think it, I think it does.
I mean, it's, it's just like, listen to specific numbers.
Marty, zero out of, out of the six movies he's made since 2010.

(31:32):
None of them have been set in present day.
Tarantino is zero for four, Egger is zero for four.
Nolan's four out of six, but all four of those were, they involved like fantasy plots.
Luca is two out of seven, Spielberg's one out of nine, Ridley Scott, two out of 11,
Yorgo's four out of seven, Coen Brothers zero out of seven, PTA zero out of four.
And Denis has told a lot of present day things, but again, a lot of fantasy stuff, which I

(31:56):
kind of like put that in a separate, a separate category because it's like, I'm thinking about
what like, what is it about the actual world that we live in that to these guys isn't very
interesting to tell stories about?
Like it's kind of depressing to me because I'll get, I did another round of this too,
where I went through a lot of these guys, pre 2009 work and 47% of those films were

(32:20):
set in the present day.
So there's a lot more of, of an opportunity or a desire for them to want to talk about
what's going on around them.
All of these guys are stuck in the past now, which makes me feel like, I don't know, like
the greatest visual storytellers of our time have nothing to say about now.
I think it's a, there's a couple of points like VHS Nick said, they're all older, which

(32:44):
not to say that there's anything wrong with that, except for like someone like Eggers,
I think he's 40.
I mean, I, what was I going to say?
And to think of the, the, the amount of time between you were saying 2010 ish, 2010 to
2024, that's 14 years versus the creation of film in the early 1900s to 2010 is a massive

(33:06):
expanse and I know they're telling films, telling stories about films or telling stories
from beyond, like even before that.
But I don't know, I think just a lot of it is grown up with that.
And I think, I think maybe it's just because it's so new and it is so weird to film someone
with a phone that it's just, maybe it'll just take a little bit to get to that.

(33:27):
I don't know.
Are there many movies that came out in the nineties that had people talking on phone
like tech from that time period?
I mean, Tarantino, his pre 2010 output, six out of those seven movies were present day.
So you can also look at it from, there is also like a simplification of communication

(33:48):
nowadays that makes writing stories a lot less interesting too.
Like we're texting each other constantly.
Everybody's always constantly in communication with each other.
Whereas back in the day, it was a lot harder to just contact people every day.
It was kind of an undertaking.
If you're out and about, you have to go find a pay phone.

(34:10):
You can't just warn somebody about something immediately.
If somebody's in danger, they can't just open their phone and be like, hey, blah, blah,
blah.
So especially in drama, I think it takes a lot of the drama out of it or horror as well,
communication in your fingertips.
Which is why they have like those signal blockers or signal boosters or whatever the fuck.
They'll be like, oh, you're trying to use your cell phone lady.

(34:30):
It's not going to fucking work.
Or you get that line.
How many times in a horror movie have you seen the like, damn it, I've got no service.
Exactly.
I mean, so much about dramatic tension in movies, I think is about who knows, which
character knows what piece of information at what specific time during the movie.
So if you have a device that can technologically let everyone know exactly what's happening

(34:54):
in the movie, some of the tension is going to abate in whatever scene you're trying
to ramp up tension in, which kind of makes it more difficult.
But if they're trying to figure something out, they can just pull up chat GPT to explain
everything for them, you know, and it'll tell them wrong information.
I would like to say there were a couple of people that actually do tend to like telling

(35:17):
stories about the present day, which was David Fincher, who is an older guy, but almost all
of his movies are set in the modern era.
I mean, not Zodiac, but most of them, most of them are set in the present day, which
I thought was interesting.
And then there are like people like Greta.
I thought this was an interesting phenomenon too, that I noticed with Greta Gerwig and
Denis Villeneuve that earlier in their careers, they were doing present day movies.

(35:41):
But then as they got more acclaim and bigger budgets, they started to go back into the
past.
So, like, you know, Greta Gerwig's early films were a lot like HBO's Girls, like that kind
of vibe, like kind of hipster Brooklyn, you know.
It's like Frances Ha, right?
Yeah, Frances Ha, like Girl Against the City kind of movies, you know, which are really

(36:02):
good too.
But as she started to develop as a voice, she was like, oh, I'll do Little Women or I'll
do Lady Bird where that's set.
And now she's doing Narnia.
Is she really?
I forgot.
Yeah, she's doing the new Narnia movies.
For that one specifically, that to me just screams of like, I don't got fucking money,
so it's set in modern day.
And now I'm like, I have a budget.

(36:23):
I'm going to go back and tell a story.
You know, we can do a period piece now.
Whereas like if you were like, hey, Greta Gerwig at the time of Frances Ha or at the
time of Lady Bird was like, can you take this money and go make a period piece?
I mean, I'm sure she could, but it wouldn't be to the level.
And also it helps that Little Women is also a famous story.
But like a lot of that is like, it's kind of the only option for a lot of these creators

(36:44):
is you set it in modern day because you could, because that's your option.
Yeah.
I mean, if you guys were going to set out to make a movie, because you guys are both
filmmakers, you know?
So like if you had all the money in the world, like would setting mean that much to you?
Would it be something you consider when you're out, you know, sitting down to write a script

(37:07):
or would you?
I think it's one of the first things you consider, honestly.
I think it depends.
If you can take a story that's interesting enough and you go, how much of this story's
context will change if it's set in say the seventies or in the early 1900s?
And does it work?
Does it make it worse?
Does it make it better?
I don't know.
I think that's very interesting.
I think also a lot of writers, like they kind of have like an illusion of like what the

(37:31):
story is going to kind of look like in their head.
And that a lot of that is to do with the time and how people look and things like that,
you know?
Yeah.
So is Bong Joon Ho's filmography mostly present day?
I didn't go through his, but it seems like it is.
And then it's modern day stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.

(37:51):
So he's another one that likes modern day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There are definitely exceptions to it and everything, but it's just, it's wild to me.
Like I was very surprised because I, you know, I had the thought and then once I started going
through a lot of the, you know, I try to think of, you know, I left out Bong Joon Ho.
That's kind of a huge miss on my part, but trying to think of directors that most cinephile

(38:13):
type people would think were like A and S tier, you know?
And all.
It's a fun thought process for sure.
I mean, there's just so many different reasons you could probably attribute it to.
And I think that's like, I think it's going to come down to all of those reasons, right?
Like depending on the film.
I have this, there's one quote from Scorsese that's pretty interesting.
This is actually him talking about how he's not really a big fan of new movies that are

(38:37):
coming out, but it sort of relates to what we're talking about a little bit.
He says, there's over-saturation, particularly in our world as it is now, and nothing really
does have a meaning.
Images, for example, are everywhere.
Cinema used to be in a building and even on television you'd see a film or whatever.
I must say a lot of the films that I'm aware of, and I don't see that many new ones over
the past couple of years because I stopped feeling like the images mean anything.

(39:01):
Well, this is kind of an inarticulate quote, sorry.
We're just completely saturated with images that don't mean anything.
Words certainly don't mean anything anymore.
They're twisted and turned.
So where's the meaning?
Where's the truth?
We have to strip away everything.
So I mean, I don't know.
To me, that kind of speaks to the fact that everybody has their own truth now because

(39:27):
we all lead such insular lives.
Another thing, this kind of goes back to the logistics of trying to film smartphones or
film the modern world or anything, but not only is it immersion breaking to remind people
that when you're out at the movies or when you're watching something at home, you don't
want to remind people of another screen that they have to use throughout their daily lives

(39:49):
that they're probably not too stoked about fucking having to look at because everyone's
lives nowadays are just intervals of staring at three different screens that you have, whether
it's in your pocket or your desk or your fucking office or whatever.
I don't think that younger people think that way though.
I think that's something that we maintain because we had a period in our life where
we didn't have that, but I think as younger people are kind of growing up in that world,

(40:13):
I don't think that's something they necessarily think about or think negatively about.
No, I mean, if they didn't think that way, like Touch Grass wouldn't be a meme.
If people, everyone knows that.
People talk about screen time constantly, people know that screens aren't good for you
necessarily.
But that's all coming through Zoomers and things like that.

(40:35):
Those are people that were kind of like the last generation.
We act like it was us as millennials, so it really is them the last generation of people
that kind of had that real childhood.
So I don't want to see over the next 10 years how things shake out and how people feel about
those kind of things.
I mean, I would say there's already a backlash to it now.

(40:58):
They do, I think, kind of whether it's out of a sort of addiction that they have or out
of necessity for work or just interacting.
Like I said, people live insular lives and end up like we've done, honestly, just making
friendships through fucking Discord and YouTube and stuff like that.
I would have never imagined myself having, you guys are like my good friends at this

(41:21):
point and I've never met you.
And to me, that's not something I ever imagined myself doing.
It definitely does feel harder these days to kind of put yourself out there.
The only way I go meet real people is going out to like, I don't even drink, but sometimes
I'll just go to bars and just talk to people just so I can actually have some kind of interaction

(41:44):
with people.
I mean, I 100% agree with you.
I just don't want to put words in younger people's mouths and say that they necessarily feel
the same way.
Well, Ethan's younger.
I'm a Zoomer, technically.
Dude, holy shit.
Yours, I always, I feel like-
I think I'm in the last year of Zoomers, so.
Are you like technically a cusper?

(42:06):
Pretty much, yeah.
So if you had to identify with one of the generations, where would you stick yourself?
Because what is it, Millennials and Zoomers?
That's where I'm stuck between?
What year were you born?
99.
Oh no, so you're full on Zoomer.
You're not a cusper at all.
Cuspers are 96, maybe 97.

(42:26):
Oh, okay, but no, I'm a Zoomer.
I was a 90s kid for five months or whatever.
Only 90s kids remember that.
Even I don't feel like a 90s kid.
I feel like I grew up mostly in the 2000s.
That's what I remember as my childhood, the early 2000s.
I feel like even if I don't feel like I identify with one group or the other as much, I feel

(42:53):
like there's things I caught where I became influenced by things that were popular for
Millennials as well as things that were popular for Zoomers.
It was just kind of a mishmash.
I've never been like, hey, look at this fucking loser.
He's got a Deathly Hallows tattoo.
I think that, and I'm a Millennial.
So if you guys had to pick, we're talking about a lot of directors that like to pick

(43:16):
the past, but if you had to pick a favorite director of yours that you feel really captures
the essence of the post-pandemic era, like the 2020s, who is that for you guys?
That really captures the post-pandemic?
Yeah, like this era, this exact moment that we're in right now.

(43:39):
I didn't mean to say pandemic, anything to do with COVID.
I'm just saying.
Oh, okay.
Just now who is the director?
I always say post-pandemic because my life totally changed in 2020.
So I was always like before, it's like AD and BC for me.
Honestly, I can't, I'm trying to picture movies that came out.
I was going to say, I guess right now I feel like I'm going to say Luca Guadagnino, but

(44:03):
I'm not really confident on that answer.
I don't know if there's been enough time.
What did he make that even captured the era?
What has he done that's set to modern?
I haven't seen Queerwood, I guess.
I mean, it didn't even feel modern though.
Challengers felt like a period.
They use smartphones.
I know, but I feel like all the lighting and everything made it feel like it was set in

(44:23):
the 80s or something to me at least.
Luca perfectly captures the specifically Gen Z urge to bite the fingers off of your new
hot vagabond girlfriend that you met outside, you know?
And bones and all.
It truly captures the male urge to make out with your best friend, your bros.

(44:46):
I mean, honestly, I mean, I don't know.
It's hard for me to think.
I think Lady Bird captured the essence of that era that it was in really well.
Yeah.
But Lady Bird, I mean, yeah, that's the thing with Greta Gerwig is interesting because I
feel like even though she's, I think she's like in her late 30s at this point now, but
she kind of, she feels like a Gen Z storyteller to me almost because I don't like Barbie.

(45:12):
I don't know.
You guys think Barbie was more of a millennial or Gen Z thing.
I feel like it was kind of just a girl thing all over.
I think it was, it was just, it was just one for the girls.
Yeah.
It was a bit in between.
So you were kind of in high school and like that 2010s era Nick too, because you're the
same age as me.
Yeah.
You know what movie, like I feel like perfectly like kind of encapsulates.

(45:34):
Are you going to say Superb Man?
No, not Superb Man.
Okay.
The kind of that feeling of like my like later high school years and there's kind of like
how everybody acted and kind of viewed the world is Booth and Revolt, that Michael Cera
movie.
You ever watch that?
I watched it back in the day.
Yeah.
I don't remember it too well, but when I think of like my high school days, I think of that

(45:55):
movie a lot.
That's where I got the idea for my mustache from Michael Cera.
Was his name Francois or whatever?
The iconic mustache was from that movie.
Oh man.
Believe it or not, Michael Cera inspired my fucking mustache, dude.
Can he even grow a mustache well?
No.
I feel like it'd look weird on his face.
He grows like a chalamet mustache.
Oh no.

(46:15):
It's like a little flavor saver.
I love him.
I think he's hilarious.
I think he's funny too.
Yeah.
That's a terrible mustache.
No offense, Michael.
You ever see the CeraVe commercials he does where he's like, I'm Michael and this is my
cream CeraVe.
Oh man.

(46:35):
I'm making a video.
I guess we can, if y'all have any-
Real quick.
My, unfortunately, I feel like the movie that defined my generation, because everyone was
talking about it in high school, was Pitch Perfect.
Really?
You think so?
I think so.
I don't think that movie's very good.
And I think it's very cringe and of the time if you go back and watch it now.
But that was like, every kid was like, dude, that was so funny.

(46:59):
And that was so sick when they sang acapella.
Yeah, no.
What's funny that you said super bad, because for me, that probably was the movie, or at
least my high school years, it definitely did feel like me and my friends would watch
that movie constantly.
And we thought it was so fucking funny and so cool.
And we emulated moments from it and stuff, all that corny shit you do when you're kids

(47:22):
and you love movies.
But actually, I don't know if you guys are going to feel me on this, but I feel like
randomly, one of the best film series that really captures what it feels like to exist
in the 2020s are the Spider-Verse films, actually.
Because there's so much stimulus in those movies.

(47:46):
Those movies totally just go full bore on the TikTok era.
We're just going to throw like a million fucking things on the screen, but it's still going
to feel artful and new and cool and make you feel something.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's when I know a movie is going to be mega successful, is because if I hear family
members who are under the age of 11 talking about it, they're like, dude, did you see

(48:09):
Spider-Verse?
And I'm like, this is going to be a fucking huge film.
That's honestly a really good example, because I think Phil Lord and Chris Miller, the directors,
are kind of very Gen Z modern day directors as far as their style.
Even the 21 and 22 Jump Street movies, they're very fast paced.
I think they are a good example of directors that kind of fit the modern era.

(48:32):
They didn't direct Spider-Verse.
I think they wrote it.
Oh, really?
I always thought they were the main creative force behind that.
I think they're part of their writing team or something like that, but the director is
Kemp Powers, I think.
This is very much a, what is it called, a fucking Tim Burton's Nightmare Before Christmas

(48:55):
situation.
Oh, like the Henry Selig guy?
Yeah, he directed.
It's Joaquin Dos Santos, Kemp Powers, and Justin K. Thomas are the directors.
Writers are Phil Lord, Chris Miller, and Dave Callahan.
Wait, so one more, before we go on to the thing that Nick wants to talk about, I wanted
to ask you guys something that's sort of related to this, but I feel like we're sort of seeing,

(49:17):
because I think millennial film, millennial culture, so much things about millennial culture
of the 2010s was defined by this sense of ironic detachment.
So much of our music was like, dude, I don't fucking care, like slacker rock and shit like
that, and sort of a resurgence of those Mumblecore movies, like the Jason Duplass stuff was really

(49:38):
big at that time.
I think now, I feel like personally Zoomers are more interested in sincerity and earnestness,
but that might just be my impression.
I think that's absolutely true.
Yeah, I think it's become more cringed and if you're openly sarcastic, like, my life
sucks.

(49:58):
Like, that's super embarrassing.
I don't know.
I think someone just being like, yeah, I'm fucking hot is way more engaging at this point.
I think one of the big jokes whenever we're in high school or fresh out of it is, I'll
just kill myself.
Everybody's just fucking, everybody wants to work it off, and so it's like, dude, come
on.
You're just holding a Ray Dunn mug with a fucking Xbox Live controller.

(50:21):
You're just like, I'm gonna fucking kill myself.
I hate being a millennial.
I'm so fucking sad that JK Rowling broke my heart.
She fucking killed my childhood.
Yeah, it's fucking rough.
Yeah, so what's your thing, Nick?
I guess, so I'm making a video right now.
It's kind of about experimentation in sitcoms and why I think it's important, because I

(50:45):
think the genre is personally, I think the genre is dying out.
But do you all have any connection to any sitcoms growing up that like kind of connected
to you for any reason?
And why is that?
Oh, I have so many sitcoms because like the main thing that I would watch before school,
you know, like getting ready for the bus.
I was one of those weird kids that just like I would take I would get up really early so

(51:07):
I could take a shower and then just like sit in bed and watch like reruns of fucking Fresh
Prince of Bel Air and shit like that, you know?
So I love just having time to myself before school.
So I watched that.
I watched, sorry, Cosby show.
I watched fucking Saved by the Bell.
I watched and then, you know, a lot of the other Nickelodeon stuff.
Yeah, dude.

(51:27):
Oh, that's that 70s show is still probably my favorite.
That 70s show is fucking good.
I watched a lot of that 70s show as a kid.
Yeah.
But my problem with sitcoms, which I watched a fucking shit load of sitcoms too, but like
I don't I don't think as a as a genre, it was very sustainable because like.
What like their show, they're doing the same things over and over.

(51:51):
It's the same situations, different family.
Am I crazy?
I mean, I guess, but that's the genre.
But it keeps working, though.
I feel like, right.
I mean, is it still working?
Like what's the last big sitcom that was like huge?
I think a lot of modern family probably.
Yeah.
I mean, modern family is still super popular.

(52:11):
The sort like the sort of multicam live studio audience sitcom has definitely died to death
for sure.
Yes.
But I think that there were there were also a lot of attempts to revive that.
Like I don't know if you guys remember Lucky Louie.
That was the thing that they were doing that Louis CK did on HBO in the early 2010s.
John Mulaney had a failed sitcom.

(52:33):
Do you remember that?
It was it was kind of like a Seinfeld ripoff that really didn't do so well.
Only last part of the problem, though, is like that they kept making these.
These sitcoms that the only point of the sitcom was basically market this this up and coming
comedian.
They had one for Martin, which Martin was actually pretty good.
They had one.
They had they had one for like every comedian, though, in the early 2000s.

(52:54):
Every single comedian had their own sitcom.
Martin was very funny, I thought.
And Martin was funny.
I don't know.
I think that if you if you take into consideration this is going back a little bit, but Parks
and Rec, the office.
I guess that's a 20.
That's literally 20 years ago now.
So never mind.
But Schitt's Creek Modern Family.
I love you, sir.

(53:15):
And then like, I don't know.
Always Sony is a sitcom, right?
And that also started in like 2004.
Yeah, it's still going.
So just still going strong.
And they got Abbott Elementary and shit.
So my pitch of the video is basically like that, like these weird like weird sitcoms,
like sitcoms that kind of are kind of like outside of the realm of reality are kind of
what keeps sick, what can keep sitcoms alive, which my examples are like more.

(53:40):
There's things like Alf early on.
There's yeah, Mork and Mindy is a good one.
Young Sheldon.
I think I think fucking always Sony, I would consider like a weird sitcom because it's
an entire group of sociopaths that are horrible connection to reality.
Right.
Yeah.
Like that's not they're not a normal family.
Right.
And then we have like Third Rock from the Sun.

(54:01):
We have fucking I had a whole list of them in my fucking video.
But like I think these kind of sitcoms are kind of experiment with like what the actual
said like, I don't know, the actual family dynamic needs to be changed for these to actually
continue going.
Yeah, I could see that.
But I think also another thing is like sitcoms are still very profitable on networks that

(54:24):
people are.
They don't really watch.
Like, I can't tell you how many times I've just seen.
I've been at my parents' house the only time I actually watch cable.
And there's a commercial for some fucking random show that's like the fire guys or like
the firefighters or whatever.
I watched two episodes of this Terry Crews sitcom from like five years ago.

(54:45):
It was one of the worst things I've ever seen in my fucking life.
But apparently it was really popular.
Yeah.
So there's a whole you know, people over 45, 50 that I think they're still you know, they
still got cable.
They're still kicking.
They're watching that shit.
I think there's blue bloods.
Yeah, I think there's a market for it.
And they're still on order as for you.
Yeah.
And also I think that the dichotomy between the multicam sitcom and the single cam sitcom

(55:11):
that there was a big revolution in that.
Like I think probably in the mid 2010s where you know, if they were pitching something
back in the 90s or the 2000s, that would have been a live studio audience and multicam.
They would do the same thing except just make it look more like a prestige drama.
You know, like the problem, the problem with multicam is it requires much, much smarter

(55:33):
writing than single camera.
More talented performers too.
Yeah.
Multicam can still work regardless of what people think.
It's just I don't think first of all, it's not something people are trained anymore.
Nobody reads multicam scripts and like actually learns how to write the format because it's
very, very different.
And for two, I think for neckworn television, I think there's a lot worse writers nowadays

(55:54):
like as a whole.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know if I really buy into that.
I don't think that it's worse writers.
I think maybe, I think it's just the same thing as it always is.
Like studios less willing to take a chance on ideas that we're going to perceive as fresh
and innovative.
Maybe the good writers are out there, but they're not working, you know?

(56:16):
Yeah.
I mean, they're either that or they're not going to get a chance.
It's the same argument people have where they go, oh, movies suck nowadays because all they
do is make remakes and sequels and rebits.
It's like, well, because people are watching them and the studios are like, this is a safe
bet.
So we're going to do that.
So they're going to make some inoffensive, mediocre crap that they can get some mediocre
writer in, underpay them and then there you go.

(56:37):
Yeah.
It's just sad to see because I think sitcoms, even like that 70 show was really smartly
written, had really good actors.
I would love for a show that kind of gives me the same feelings that I got from those
shows back in the day.
I don't think I don't think that's the same thing I can get from like television or from
from movies.
Right.

(56:58):
Like that feeling I got from that 70 show and that connection to those characters and
things like that.
It's not immutable from going to see films as a zoomer.
You know what that sounds like to me?
It sounds like you're fucking old.
It sounds like you got the rose tinted glasses on.
It's not going to happen, buddy.
I like when the old guy would tell him he was going to put a boot up his ass.
That was my favorite part of the show.

(57:18):
I love it when Sheldon would go, Bazinga.
What's the last show that you all feel like you all had like a pretty genuine connection
to the characters and like you really like, you know what I mean?
Like an actual genuine connection to the characters of a television show.
Has to be a sitcom.
Not necessarily a drama, like not like a super dramatic show.
Schitt's Creek.

(57:38):
I mean, Succession is like a like a tragic comedy, you know, so it's sort of like a sitcom
in a way.
It's very funny.
If I had to pick a comedy, though, like a straight up comedy, probably probably girls
actually.
I really I love all the characters and girls.
Girls is pretty solid.
Adam Driver is in that.
Yeah, Adam Driver is in that.

(57:59):
Yeah.
I think mine would be like Silicon Valley.
Oh yeah, dude.
Fucking rules.
Silicon Valley is really good.
And also I feel pretty genuinely connected to the characters of Righteous Gemstones.
That's a modern one that I think is really solid.
And honestly, most of Danny McBride's shows I think are really good.
Wait, so Nick.
Are you specifically missing the multicam vibe, though?

(58:19):
Is that is that what part of your video is?
I think them.
Yeah, I touch on that, too.
But I don't I think sitcoms as a whole, like I think are kind of in a rough spot, even
even non multi even single cam sitcoms.
You know what I do think actually is missing?
Because with a lot of shows, specifically with sitcoms, it was so much easier to make

(58:43):
them at a non sloth pace where what is one of the biggest problems we're having with
so many shows?
We're finishing Stranger Things finally after what, four different presidential terms.
It's absurd.
And then you look at something like an Abbott Elementary, where I think they're on like
what season four or five after four years, like they're able to turn them around so much

(59:08):
more than these.
How much do you think of that is due to the actual writers, the Duffer Brothers or whatever,
like taking their sweet ass time?
I don't I honestly don't know what the problem is.
I think that's just but that's just generally the current standard for these big shows.
They're like at least two years before you get another season for these big, big shows
like Last of Us two years.

(59:31):
We have House of the Dragon.
It's like two years.
I still think it's going to be another network shows still still pump out pretty quick.
I mean, like there's that it's like a new Tim Allen show on right now that I think there's
pumping out seasons pretty fast.
I think the two year thing is most like especially for something like Stranger Things.
It's like a two full.
Probably it's a well, yeah, it's a CG.
Definitely.

(59:51):
It's definitely got harder to schedule that show as the kids are all 50 years old.
Well, no, they're just getting way more famous.
You know, all those all the Stranger Things kids are like the biggest actors of their
age demo.
You know, far as fucking blowing up, dude.
And he can rock out, dude.
Have you heard his band?
This Winona Ryder lady, I think she's going to take it off big, you know, she's really

(01:00:13):
good.
I'm in love with her.
Someone should put her in a Beetlejuice movie.
My wife said she's gives like cigarette mom.
Oh, yeah, totally.
I'm a Stranger Things fan.
Are you guys big Stranger Things fans?
I like Stranger Things.
I really like it.
I have complicated feelings because I think season one was great.
And after season one finished, I was like, OK, I think they're going to do an anthology

(01:00:35):
thing, which I think I remember hearing that that was the original pitch.
They were going to do like a new set of characters in a new thing, but it's all going to be like
80s based sci fi horror.
And then season one was so massive.
They're like, well, let's do a continuation.
And I think season two sucks.
Season three was not as bad.
And then season four, I was like, damn, they fucking found their footing.

(01:00:57):
All they needed was a goddamn villain.
Yeah, a villain who actually speaks.
Yes, and isn't just a big sludge monster.
I think it has its problems, but I think the stuff that you have to compare it to, like
the fucking Goonies type stuff, I think it fits very soundly in that realm and does a
good job.
So like I don't it's one of those things where I'm not going to criticize it because I think

(01:01:20):
it does what it's trying to do very well.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, I think it's.
I love season four.
Season three, I was almost out on.
And literally when season four came back, I was like, am I even going to watch this?
I was like, I didn't.
And that first episode ended.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The fucking Chrissy scene happened.
Yeah.

(01:01:41):
That was what got me back.
I was like, holy shit, dude.
They just fucking murked her so bad.
Yeah.
And really, yeah, really it was it was Vecna for me.
I mean, I think there was some controversy or at least the fans were divided on that.
By the way, sorry to change this up.
Stranger Things fandom is the most annoying fan base online.
Have you guys noticed this?

(01:02:02):
I have never engaged with the Stranger Things.
Yeah, I haven't seen that.
I didn't know there was like a dedicated fandom.
Just because I mean, I've been keeping this from you guys for a while.
I'm a massive Reddit head, so I go on all the subreddits of the shows I like.
And it's just I mean, I'm sure it's because they're young.
Why do you torture yourself?
They're young kids just like they do shipping, you know.
You guys know about shipping?
Oh, yeah.
I know what shipping is.

(01:02:22):
Yes.
My wife wrote fan fiction.
Nigga, are you a big shipper?
I'm not a big shipper.
I don't believe you, dude.
You fucking.
I could see Nick.
Nick's got that.
Nick getting out of like the first season of a movie is like, I just wish the Penguin
and Sofia would get together.
Like I could just see you doing that.
I can see myself doing that in the right show.
Maybe.
They just need to kiss.
Give me some Aaron Taylor Johnson.

(01:02:43):
Nick's just like, he's literally just making like little Valentine's Day cards on Canva
with the Penguin.
He's like, if they cast Aaron Taylor Johnson as Batman, he better kiss Superman.
He'd be a terrible Batman.
I'm not going to lie to you.
Yeah.
He's like five foot two.
I would have never expected to hear you say that.

(01:03:03):
I thought you would like him as Batman.
Honestly, I was just thinking about this.
I think he was my least favorite part of Ness Faratu.
I kept thinking he had a fake accent and then I realized, oh, he's actually British.
Why does he sound so off?
I like him.
I thought he was good.
It was a Robert De Niro situation.
I think Kraven he was pretty bad in, but I mean, whatever.

(01:03:26):
I mean, no one's going to survive a Sony original superhero movie.
Yeah.
I really wish, I wish fucking Matthew Vaughn wasn't so terrified of making a third movie
in a series.
No trilogy he's ever started has been finished.
It pisses me off.
It's just Kingsman and Kick-Ass, right?
Yeah.
Didn't he do Argyle recently?

(01:03:49):
Did you guys see that?
Yeah.
That was supposed to be a series of like five films or something too.
It's about, it's a movie about like keeping a little cat in a backpack or something and
you go on a mission.
It's not actually really about that.
And Henry Cavill's there and he has a terrible haircut.
So listen, it's a movie about keeping a cat in a backpack and you got to go on a mission
to get the cat out of the back.

(01:04:10):
Someone let the cat out of the bag.
So now this British man is Martin Scorsese.
The thing about Matthew Vaughn is like he makes such great stylized films.
Have you all watched Layer Cake before?
No.
Oh my God.
It's so good.
It has Matthew Craig in it or Daniel Craig in it.
Matthew Craig.
But like, oh my God, dude, his movies are so fucking good, man.

(01:04:32):
And they have no substance either.
Like the Kingsman movies are like just completely empty as far as like actual substance to them.
No, he did three.
There's three Kingsman movies.
No, the Kingsman is not.
No.
It's a pretty cool, but that's three, sir.
Can you count?
No, but remember they had the whole thing where like they were supposed to make a third
one with Channing Tatum coming back as the Texan guy and they were going to join forces

(01:04:56):
with Kingsman.
And then they did the King's Speech.
That was the really, that was the prequel prequel.
I didn't see the King's Man, but didn't that have a post credit scene with Hitler?
It was atrociously bad.
It was one of the worst movies I've seen.
Yeah, it was so bad.
There was a post credit scene with Hitler?

(01:05:17):
I read that.
I couldn't stick around if that happened.
A post credit scene like Hitler shows up and they're like, and then it ends.
I don't know that.
I'm like a huge Matthew Vaughn fanboy.
I'll literally like suckle anything he releases, but that movie pissed me off.
Is he like a Guy Ritchie type dude?
He's a very Guy Ritchie type dude, yes.
I think they co-mingled.
He seems to make edgy movies.

(01:05:37):
Like that's kind of his like vibe.
He's one of those directors where whatever movie comes out, they always start off the
trailer going, from the twisted mind of Matthew Vaughn.
He did the X-Men first class movies and stuff.
Yeah, that was good.
That's one of my favorite X-Men movies.
Probably my favorite.
Oh, so that marked the beginning of Bryan Singer not doing those movies anymore?

(01:06:01):
Is that what it was?
Well, he came back because Matthew Vaughn was going to do the follow up to first class,
but then PDF file man came back and said, no, I want to make another one.
And then he just jumped in there.
Has he come back yet or is he still doing-
Bryan PDF file?
No, he's done.
He's not working.
I never know with these guys, bro.

(01:06:23):
What's his name?
Bryan Singer.
American Beauty guy?
What's his name?
Kevin Spacey.
He's coming back.
Kevin Spacey is coming back.
American Beauty is so good, by the way.
Oh, yeah.
Oh my God, Bryan Singer looks like a pedophile.
Oh, dude, now we can talk about Fight Club because American Beauty reminds me of Fight
Club in a way.
Where it doesn't hit as much.

(01:06:47):
I mean, it doesn't.
They're not very similar.
Don't spoil American Beauty because I still haven't seen it.
I won't spoil it, but they're not very similar movies, but they're similar in the way that
they captured the zeitgeist of that time.
I think it was like a year apart, right?
That's true.
It was like late 90s, right, for American Beauty?
Yeah, like the whole paper bag floating.
This isn't a spoiler, Ethan.

(01:07:08):
It's where-
I've seen the scene.
I've seen the scene.
It's where Katy Perry gets the beautiful line from Fireworks from.
Do you ever feel like you're a plastic bag?
That was supposed to be so deep back in the year 2000, and now you watch it and it's like,
why is this guy filming a fucking plastic bag?
I do remember because I think I started the movie and then something came up and I was
not able to finish it, but I got about a half hour through and I was like, oh, Kevin Spacey

(01:07:30):
is a PDF file.
And then I got to the plastic bag scene and I was like, if I was sitting next to this
dude and he sits me down, he's like, look at this video I filmed, and then shows me
a video of a plastic bag, I would just fucking leave.
What happened with Kevin Spacey?
Was it just that they were like, no, he's definitely really creepy, but we don't know

(01:07:51):
that he's actually a PDF file?
I don't know.
No, I think he flipped it out there.
Ethan, you were saying he's a PDF file.
I think he's just a sex pervert.
I'm not sure he's a PDF file.
And sexually assaults people sometimes.
I listened to a thing about what he was doing the other day and it's funny we brought this
up because what he would do is he would find actors, very unknown male actors, and he would

(01:08:18):
be like, I see something in you, kid.
Let's go on a drive or let's go back to my place.
For one of these guys, which I thought was very weird, because Kevin Spacey, his dad
was a Nazi actually.
So I guess because of that, I don't know if his dad was abusive for sure, but he got

(01:08:39):
this kind of complex around it.
So he developed an attraction to like servicemen and stuff like that.
So he would put on Saving Private Ryan and then like jerk off next to some guy he just
picked up and basically bamboozled into thinking he was going to make his career if he like
gave him a blow job or something, like sick cast and power shit like that.

(01:09:01):
What is this?
It's just what happened, bro.
That's where you just pray.
That's where you get on set with Kevin Spacey and you just pray that you're chosen.
You pray and you get that fucking little secret glasses, the filming glasses.
You're like, Kevin Spacey, my man, you better fucking make my career because I don't think
people are going to like this.
Yeah.

(01:09:21):
Kevin Spacey's sexual misconduct allegations in 2017.
American actor Kevin Spacey faced several allegations.
Began after Anthony Rapp alleged that Spacey, while appearing intoxicated, made sexual advances
towards him at a party in 1986 when Rapp was 15 years old and Spacey was 27.
Oh, he's a PDA file.
Fuck.
He's a PDA.
Yeah.
There was actually, I remember the, are you guys familiar with the podcast Weekly Planet?

(01:09:45):
And also part of the Mr. Sunday Movies YouTube channel.
Their podcast, they have one of their Australian friends had a story about Kevin Spacey and
this is before everything had happened with Kevin Spacey.
They made a reference.
They're like, oh, should we tell that Kevin Spacey story?
And they're like, no, let's not do that.
And then after all the allegations came out, they're like, oh, so our friend was like at

(01:10:07):
the airport, met Kevin Spacey.
He was like 19 and like was talking to Kevin Spacey and he's like, oh, Kevin Spacey, I'm
a huge fan.
And Kevin Spacey was like, oh, let me, like they were talking and he like went up to him
and it was like, let me help you with your belt and like pulled his like pants forward
and then like fiddled with his belt and he's like, all right, you're good.
And yeah.
And they're like, anyway, that was the story.

(01:10:28):
Dude.
Yeah.
Pretty gross.
One of the most disgusting things about, I mean, obviously doing all this stuff is horrible
too, but it's, do you guys remember when he?
All of this information first started coming out.
He was one of the first ones after Weinstein to get hit during the first wave of Me Too
stuff.
Yeah.

(01:10:48):
And after all the guys came out were accusing him, he's actually, he's just like, well,
yeah, I'm gay.
So if that makes anyone feel any differently, I mean, take it easy on me.
I'm a gay man.
I've been hiding that for a while.
Sorry if you're homophobic.
Yeah.
Fuck.
He just thought that could get him out of it, you know?
He's so fucked up.
But I will say, I have to admit, I miss him.

(01:11:12):
I miss Kevin Spacey, bro.
He was an amazing actor.
Like here's my thing.
I mean, yeah, I can separate the person from him.
He's good at what he did.
I don't think you can be that good of an actor without being somewhat of a fucking psychopath.
And I think that makes me want, that guy's probably pretty fucking crazy.
He's so genuine and like cool.

(01:11:34):
He's probably kind.
Let's talk to him in personal life.
I'm not saying you have to be an actual terrible person.
I'm just saying you have to have some screws loose possibly.
Yeah.
I want to know what kind of like, what kind of fucking skeletons are in Daniel Day Lewis's
closet, bro.
Is there, I have a question for you guys.

(01:11:55):
Is there one actor or, yeah, let's say actor, but we can expand this to just general celebrity
for artists.
If they came out and they were a horrible person, which would be the most devastating
for you personally?
That's a really good question.
I mean, honestly guys, it happened to me with Louis CK and, yeah, Louis was back in 27,

(01:12:18):
you know, basically ever since I started watching his comedy, I was a major fan of his show,
Louis on FX.
And then when, when all those stories came out in 2017, I was absolutely devastated.
I was like, fuck.
I thought I do.
I still think Louis is a genius.
I think he's the best comedian of all time.
And that was really hard to swallow all that stuff.

(01:12:39):
But I'm not very big on like idolizing people, celebrity warships and things like that.
I didn't idolize him.
I just loved him.
I loved his work.
Well, no, I think, well, there's like one exception for me.
And like, it's like, like, I can't think of a single famous person or anybody like that,
I would like lose my shit if I saw them, except for Danny McBride and Aaron Taylor Johnson,

(01:13:03):
not Aaron Taylor Johnson.
I wouldn't lose my mind if I saw him.
But if I met Danny McBride, I'd fucking shit my pants probably.
So it would really suck if he came out as a bad person.
Yeah.
Oh, actually, if, nevermind.
You go, Ethan.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
I don't want to go.
Okay.
Well, because we said we weren't going to get political, so I don't want to do it.

(01:13:24):
Well, we can if we want to.
I'll just do a quick thing.
If Bernie, if it was Bernie Sanders, I would be very upset.
I'd feel a bit betrayed in the same way.
Yeah, I'd be like, Bernie.
Yeah.
But he's good, dude.
He's been around for so long.
It would have happened by now.
So we're good.
And that was true.
Yeah.
He'll die a legend.

(01:13:44):
Yeah.
Did you hear he got arrested?
Back in the day.
Yeah, it was for good reason.
In a good way.
I remember this.
I had that t-shirt.
For me, honestly, as an actor, it's got to be Willem Dafoe, just because I think he's
so fucking amazing and talented.
And he's like one of those performers that's not afraid to go big and like own it, as well

(01:14:10):
as just doing a subdued performance.
And generally, I'll listen to interviews of that guy just talk about making art.
And I just think he's so incredible.
That would be a devastating one if he came out.
He's basically like, I see him as like a Nicolas Cage, if Nicolas Cage like actually was careful
with the roles he picked.
Yeah.
Well, I think Nicolas Cage is weird, though.

(01:14:30):
Doesn't he have like a really young wife?
Who cares?
No, but like a young, like she was like, they met when she was like 18 or 17 or something.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm talking my ass.
I thought I was saying something about that.
With Willem Dafoe in particular, I was personally surprised he didn't get canceled when he turned
the entire board of Oscorp into skeletons, the World Unity Day Parade.

(01:14:53):
Oh my God, his out.
Am I?
What are you saying?
Dude, she looks.
Look up his wife, bro.
I'm not going to say anything.
Just look around.
Why?
What?
You have to describe it for our audio only listeners.
So his wife is in this photo from a year ago.

(01:15:16):
He was 56.
She was 26.
That's not that bad.
That's how old you are.
That's not that bad.
What is it?
Is it because she's Asian?
She's just she's very traditionally Asian.
In my mind, I was imagining my uncle who got a mail order wife type of deal.
He did?
And I just imagined I just imagined like Nicolas Cage getting a mail order wife.

(01:15:39):
Can you tell us that story?
I don't really know the full story.
He just was just like one day he came and he's like, this is my wife.
She's from the Philippines.
And we're like, how long ago did you meet her?
And he's like, yesterday.
Okay.
You're like, my wife.
She seems cool.
I don't know.

(01:16:00):
She's cool.
She's like speaks English pretty good now and she's chill.
I do think that's an interesting thing that happens in Hollywood specifically just with
like these all these dudes who like Leonardo DiCaprio was probably the biggest culprit
where he has girlfriends that are 18 and then they hit their expiration date at the discrepant

(01:16:20):
age of 25 and then he dumps them and finds another one.
Yeah, I can think about it this way though, right?
Oh no, don't justify this.
I'm going to justify it.
I'm sorry.
Oh, fuck, dude.
So as somebody who has been working in Hollywood since they were very young, they probably
and have had all the money they've ever needed.

(01:16:41):
They have probably had very little to force them to actually grow up into like actual
adult human beings and they're probably very regressed emotionally.
I think they're probably mentally at the same age as these young women they're going after.
Yeah, especially in Leo's case too because you guys remember the whole pussy posse thing

(01:17:02):
with him and Tobey Maguire?
No.
Yeah, they literally called themselves the pussy posse because they were, it was around
the time of Titanic and Spider-Man and they were the young new Hollywood actors.
They call themselves like the new Brat Pack or the pussy posse.
I think they actually ended up calling themselves because they would just go pick up chicks

(01:17:25):
and stuff.
It's very epic behavior.
I don't know.
It's the roof of Wall Street.
Yeah, I could see where you're coming from, Nick, but I don't know.
I don't think that's what it actually is.
I'm not saying it's literally okay.
I think that they're saying that's why you think it happens.
Yeah, I'm not saying they shouldn't just not do that, but I think it's understandable

(01:17:46):
for me.
I get it.
It's so hard being 31 now.
It's so hard for me to even imagine dating someone that's like seven years younger than
me.
I don't know if I could even do that.
Our lives are much, much harder than their lives have been.
And it ages you.

(01:18:07):
Honestly, I think in the last year of my life, I feel like I've lived five years.
I think that's kind of what...
It's not until...
This is way too personal.
It's not literally until this year I've actually dated girls that are older than me.
Literally never in my life have I dated somebody that's not five, six years younger than me.

(01:18:31):
I mean, not always, but whatever.
Yeah, I think because for me, same thing with you, Kuljurnik.
I've driven past a high school and I'm like, are those fucking 12 year olds coming out
of the gate?
They look like babies.
And talking to a high schooler, the one or two times I have in the last three years,

(01:18:53):
I'm like, damn, there is nothing going on up there.
Not to say they're stupid, but their priorities are in a different place in what they want
to talk about.
I don't necessarily agree with it.
I feel like I can understand where they're coming from on it and I wouldn't do the same,
but whatever.

(01:19:14):
I mean, I think so much...
I watched the fall of Diddy thing on HBO.
I don't know if you guys watched that, but...
They turn those things around so goddamn quick.
I know, right?
I was just thinking that too.
But it's just like, I think you get to this place of status and power where you...
All the things that are supposed to make you feel good stop making you feel good and then

(01:19:36):
you just start becoming this vindictive psychotic piece of shit if you're a certain type of
person.
You can only get your pleasure receptors only go off when you're fucking hurting someone.
I would say his behavior in the regard that we're talking about is mildly predatory though.
It's very strange.
Do you ever see those graphs that go around on social media?

(01:19:59):
The fucking the Leo dating graphs where it's like, oh, she turned 26 and then she gets
fucking broken up with.
That's very weird behavior.
Not to put him on the same level as Diddy at all.
I don't think he's doing that, but it's just like...
I don't know.
I think these guys, they achieve the highest echelons of whatever you can fucking achieve

(01:20:21):
in whatever industry you're in and you just start getting a little weird.
You start turning inward and getting angry.
Well, imagine what kind of person you'd be if you got everything you wanted.
If everything I ever wanted just fell right into my lap, I think I would be a lot more
of a narcissistic person.

(01:20:41):
Yeah.
And then you start to mythologize yourself.
You narrativize your life.
It was always meant to be this way.
You build a chosen one myth around yourself.
I read this thing for a while ago that was like, every man in America thinks he's the
chosen one until 21 years old.

(01:21:02):
I mean, I've got some of them, it's older.
21, bro.
I think it's older than that, bro.
It's like 25 and 30 for a lot of fucking sad people.
I think I still have somewhat of that.
That's why you don't like doing.
You're jealous of Paul Atreides.
You're like, it should be me.
I should be the quiz at Tetra.
I think it's any type of truly artistic person has to have these sort of delusional thoughts

(01:21:28):
to some extent.
You have to think that you have some kind of special sauce to you, even if you don't
necessarily have it.
You have to feel like you have it, or else what the fuck is the point of trying?
Yeah, but there's a difference between that.
I'm talking about these people who do make it.
That's why so many celebrities are fucking assholes, because I think a lot of them don't

(01:21:51):
factor luck into the equation of how they got where they were, or luck and connections,
or happenstance, and shit like that.
I think a lot of them, they build up a myth around themselves, and they're like, no, everything
that I got, I worked for, which means all of you are beneath me.
All of you who didn't achieve this status, fuck you.

(01:22:12):
I'm the one who deserves everything.
I think a lot of them are on that tip.
That makes sense.
There's a lot of shitty celebrities that have that attitude.
Who do you think the worst celebrity is?
Harvey Weinstein.
Oh, no.
All right.
You can't do sex perverts or whatever.
Okay, not a horrible person.

(01:22:32):
No sex perverts.
Okay, just someone I just don't like for no reason.
Ryan Reynolds is starting to piss me off with all his goddamn mint mobile ads, and I just
think he's annoying.
Yeah, I could see that.
I know Nick is going to say the Rock.
No, it's too easy of a target.
Fuck, I'm trying to think who really grinds my fucking gears.

(01:22:57):
Mark Wahlberg is annoying as well.
If I was there when 9-11 happened, I could have stopped it.
I fucking hate Ari Aster, dude.
We're never getting him on the podcast.
I listened to the conversation that we had about Midsommar and Hereditary the other day,
and I was like, what the fuck were you thinking during that conversation?

(01:23:19):
You were like, Ari, I swear to God, he thinks this shit is funny.
These movies that are literally the most depressing things that anyone could ever fucking think
of, and you're like, no.
I hate his voice.
He thinks it's funny.
I hate him.
He thinks it's all a big joke.
There's just something about him, the way he writes, the way he directs, the way he
talks that irks the shit out of me.

(01:23:41):
I don't know what it is.
I think he's going to come out as some kind of creep someday.
I'm going to have this big I told you so moment.
I'm just calling it now.
That brings up another point.
Do you think it's possible for someone to think of the fucking weird and horrendous
story beats that this guy thinks of and characters and just be the really disgusting director

(01:24:04):
he is?
Not disgusting as a person or as a creator.
I'm just saying he makes you feel ill a lot with the images he produces.
Do you think it's possible to be that kind of creative and not be fucked up in some way?
I think it is.
I think you have to have seen or experienced things that are not great or you have to have

(01:24:27):
a really sick mind.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know because I've written some horror stories before and I don't think
I'm too much of a psycho.
I mean, from a scale from Ron Weasley to Patrick Bateman, I'm probably like a fucking-

(01:24:48):
I think you've seen some lows, right?
You've talked about your experiences.
I think there's a lot of correlations you can draw to that from that to the feelings
you feel of horror.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't know why I said Ron Weasley to Patrick Bateman.
That was a really weird job.
The least psychotic person in all of fiction.

(01:25:09):
Ron Weasley.
Caillou to Patrick Bateman.
Nick, what are you recommending for us next week, bro?
Wait, real quick.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Nick, I want you to know, do you know anything about Aria Esther's next film?
Eddington, right?
It's Eddington.
It is described as a Western noir ensemble movie set during the COVID-19 pandemic.

(01:25:31):
Oh, sick.
And it's starring Joaquin Phoenix, Emma Stone, Austin Butler, and Pedro Pascal.
Why is he always working with fucking Joaquin, bro?
Because Joaquin, he loves Joaquin, even though Joaquin walks out on movies.
That's actually not true.
It's only one time.
You're like, why is he always working with the most talented actor in the history of
fucking Hollywood?
Why wouldn't you?

(01:25:51):
He's amazing.
He's Joaquin, bro.
I'm telling you, it's blind hatred.
And the day he makes a movie I like, I'm going to be so mad because I'm going to have to
admit it and I'm going to be pissed.
Well, you can say I'm not like the other ones.
Yeah, that's fine.
I know, but I don't want to have to say anything nice about him.
So I'm hoping his next movie sucks.
I think if you watch the strange thing about the Joneses, you'd love that.

(01:26:11):
I talked about this on the podcast about how much I fucking hated it.
Okay, so I am going to be recommending Chungking Express by Wong Kar-Wai.
What?
And it is one of my favorite movies.
What's it called?
And I'm really excited for you all to see it.
Chungking Express.
Chung?
How do you spell it?
It's on HBO Max.

(01:26:31):
Oh, sick.
It's a real movie.
I've been having to rent the past couple of ones.
So that's nice.
This is our AM Max.
Just watch it online.
Did you rent Love and Pop?
Whatever it means.
No.
Huh?
No.
Okay.
There was no way to even rent that.
Yeah, it's not available on anything.
I watched it on YouTube.
This is sort of a romance movie.

(01:26:52):
I would say it's definitely a romance movie.
I wouldn't say it focuses super strong on the love aspect as much as the individual
feelings these people are going through.
But I've seen this movie a couple of times and I really want to watch it again.
And I think you all are going to love it.
Yeah, we should reiterate for the people who are listening, we're doing the romance month.

(01:27:16):
So it's going to be starting off with Upstream Color, then Chungking Express, then Captain
America Brave New World, and then When Harry Met Sally.
So it's all about the love this month in February, guys.
Can't wait to see Harrison Ford's Red Hulk give a big smooch to Captain America.
Mwah.
I am.
All right, boys.
All right.

(01:27:37):
Thank you, everybody, for watching.
If you really enjoyed this episode and you're listening to it on YouTube, please leave us
a like and a comment.
We'd really appreciate it.
Or if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave us a five-star review because
that really helps us out a lot and makes us feel really, really good.
So if you don't want to be spoiled for Chungking Express directed by Wong Kor Wai next episode,

(01:27:58):
then watch it.
And I think that's pretty much it.
Get stucmonized, everybody.
Get stucmonized.
Get stucmonized, everybody.

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