Hate to Interrupt - EP 024 | The Empty Man

In Episode 24 of Hate to Interrupt, we dive into The Empty Man, a film that flew under the radar but has since gained a cult following. At the recommendation of our guest host, Ghoulif, we break down this eerie, atmospheric horror movie, discussing its cryptic storytelling, unsettling atmosphere, and why it deserves more recognition.

Is The Empty Man an underrated gem or an overhyped mystery? We analyze its themes, scares, and what makes it stand out in the modern horror landscape. If you love deep-dive horror discussions, this episode is for you.

Tune in and join us for a creepy, thought-provoking conversation!

• VHSGUY
• Stop Culture
• Ghoulif

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So, despite the fact that Biggie only had two albums out before people started calling

(00:12):
him the goat, Kendrick has had like eight albums out now.
Listen up, I hate to interrupt, but welcome to Hate to Interrupt Episode 24.
I am Ethan from youtube.com slash guluf and I am joined by Nick from Stop Culture.
I'm VHS guy the other Nick.
Yeah, and so today we're going to be talking about a couple things, but starting off with
David Pryor's 2020 cult horror psychological thriller, sort of like a classic now, I guess,

(00:40):
like a modern modern cult classic.
Yeah, it's very much a modern cult classic.
Yeah, The Empty Man, which is actually one of Chris Stuckman's favorite movies of the
new decade.
Did you guys know that?
Oh, God.
Is that true?
I just had a video titled from like three years ago titled The Empty Man Needs a Cult
Following.

(01:00):
That's the only reason I ever watched it because he said it was good.
So it must be and it was so.
I just watched it because Guluf told me to.
I recommended this because I have been hearing about it for ever since it came out really
of just being like, this was a really cool, weird, different horror film that completely

(01:22):
tanked during the pandemic and nobody saw it.
Yeah, but it seems like I've maybe it's just Chris Stuckman manipulating the view counts
and everything, but I feel like a lot of people have been talking about it for the past couple
of years.
Is that not the case?
I've heard little chatters about it, but nothing concrete, you know, like not a lot ever since

(01:47):
I knew that was kind of the only thing.
When I did my little online digging, it seemed like there's a little bit of a it's quite
a bit of people online talking about it.
I mean, I thought this movie was really great.
But before we get into that, does anyone have like a plot synopsis?
I figured you would be the perfect person for a plot synopsis because this movie feels
right up your alley.
I had like a millennial type joke about it.

(02:09):
Do it.
Where I was like, The Empty Man, a 2020 film about my life being empty and sad.
But yeah, that's millennial.
I can try if you want.
Yeah, you can go.
Yeah, you go for it.
All right.
Basically, there's a he's previously a cop.

(02:32):
He's like a private eye.
His daughter goes, yeah, give the give the plot.
So you only spoil anything.
No, no, not spoiling it.
Just start with the prologue though.
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
So his daughter goes missing along and she has a bunch of friends and they go to this
bridge and there's a if you go on a bridge and you blow in a bottle and think about the

(02:53):
Hollow Man, the first day you'll hear him.
The second day you'll see him and the third day he comes and stabs you in the face in
a sauna.
And so he's trying to find his daughter and it turns out there's some mega cult that's
basically like Scientology, but with like no chill.
And yeah, he goes to find his daughter.

(03:15):
I don't know.
When do I spoil?
Do I spoil anything?
I mean, it's basically this dude trying to find his daughter.
Yes, we get work.
This is a full on spoiler.
We just want to get the basic premise.
The fact that it's his daughter is even a spoiler in and of itself, Nick.
You're not supposed to know it's his daughter.
Really?
I feel like I got that right away.
Well they don't say it outright.
I mean they hinted at it like halfway through I think.

(03:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Initially like you think she's a you know, just a daughter of like a family friend that
he has well sort of like a romantic relationship with.
That's pretty obvious.
The daughter part is obvious.
Everything's kept kind of vague in this movie in general.
Like they don't really go into much detail on anything.
Yeah.
It's a very vague type story.

(04:00):
Not quite upstream color levels of vague, but it's approaching that territory.
It's very much, I mean there's a big twist at the end.
I mean, should I just, he's a tulpa.
He's a tulpa.
So he's a thought form manifest.
Which fans of Buddhism and Twin Peaks The Return would be familiar with the concept

(04:21):
of tulpas.
Analog horror.
Is that a thing that comes up in analog horror?
Oh all the time.
It's like I think Greylock is all about, which is a very popular analog horror is all about
tulpas.
Oh okay.
Yeah, that's a cool concept.
I don't understand this creature very much.
So my big-

(04:42):
The empty man?
Yeah, like not the empty man himself, because that makes sense because he's like a manifestation
inside of an actual being, which was the guy at the beginning that fell into the fucking
cave, his body, right?
That makes sense.
There's a creature stuck inside of this guy's body that has somewhere to manifest, right?
But this guy, does he have a body?

(05:03):
Or is he just some thought that's just floating around?
It doesn't make any sense to me.
You're talking about the main character?
The main character, yes.
I took it, once the reveal happened, I kind of talked about this with my brother because
he had seen it a few years ago.
And I took it as like, I mean, she even says near the end, Amanda, she's like, you were
born three days ago, which I took it as we literally created you out of nothing three

(05:27):
days ago.
Like we finally perfected the tulpa that you are and that's what you are.
And we implanted all these memories into you.
Because then you also see when he goes to the cabin and he's going through all those
old VHS tapes that are called Manifestation 11, Manifestation 12.
And it's all their failed tulpa creations, because they're all sitting around a table

(05:48):
like chanting.
And then this horrible thing with like seven fingers on each hand is like, it's part of
its stomachs torn open.
I was like, oh, that's a failed tulpa that they tried to create when they were trying
to create a new empty man.
Yeah, but the whole thing is like, does like, is he what is what is he?
Is he is he just a memory is the whole movie just a memory?

(06:10):
Like it doesn't make any sense.
I mean, I, I, they don't say this outright, but I think you could, you could interpret
the movie that he actually did die with with his wife and his son.
And then she was like, oh, we could, we could create these because she was saying that like
the in between entity, that's like the actual supernatural entity that the empty man channels.

(06:33):
So that entity needs guilt and sorrow for this to be like a successful process for them
to actually be empty.
They need those feelings of guilt and loss and regret or whatever.
So she was like, what if we create this tulpa that believes he actually had all these, these
memories of cheating on his wife?
But what if in real life, he actually did just die that day, you know, in that car accident?

(06:58):
I mean, did you guys think that was a possibility?
I mean, I think, I think they left it so vague that it's like anything could technically
be the, with the case, you know, because he had to have been a real person at some point
though, because she, that is her dad, right?
That's actually her father.
Maybe, is it?
I don't know.
I took it.
Cause then you see when they're at the funeral and I was like, they keep showing photos of

(07:22):
some guy who, and I took it as like, he is taking the place of who that guy was.
He doesn't look like him, but like, I don't know, maybe it was like that.
They implanted, they implanted that guy's memories onto this new body.
Cause I took it as he was created, like what, as soon as we jumped to modern day, he was

(07:42):
created a bit before that, like a few hours before that.
It was just kind of dropped into the story.
No, but no, but so like that guy, he could still be in the story regardless of whether
the tulpa existed for all those years or was just, I mean, the tulpa was definitely created,
but like I'm trying to figure out whether this guy, James Lissamber or whatever was

(08:03):
ever a real person at first.
That was my main, main question.
Like was he, was he the tulpa based off a real guy or was he just created for a specific
purpose?
It seems like he was just created for a specific purpose.
No, but like the, the, the husband that you're seeing in the, uh, you know, in the photos,
you see him in the beginning too.
He's, he's right.

(08:23):
He's right there.
Yeah.
But the thing is all of these things are just memories, right?
Like that they made and it, I, it felt like almost like, like the wife was in on it too.
Like she, like the wife had to have someone to cheat on with because that was, she was,
she was like, what can we stop punishing ourselves?
They both cheated.
Like he, he cheated on his wife.

(08:44):
Uh, you know, I don't know if this is an important part of the cult though.
I think she was just playing out.
I took it as he, they implanted all the, like their relationship into his mind.
This is a really confusing.
See this is, this is, this is exactly like when we were having that discussion the other
day about how I hate ambiguity.

(09:05):
Like this is, this is what I don't like because it doesn't, because it feels so lazy.
Like, like, cause if you think about a movie like the sixth sense or like the whaling,
right?
Like those movies where they have like the big reveal at the end, you're like, Oh, I
fucking get it now.
That's so sick.
But then like a movie like this, I'm like, I don't know what happened.

(09:28):
I mean, well, it's what all you need to know is that this guy was created for a purpose,
whether or not he was created based off a real, like a real person who did once exist
at a time or was just created whole cloth just to serve the purposes of this call.
It doesn't really matter that much.
So I don't think it's like totally ambiguous.
I mean, they do explain exactly what happens.

(09:50):
That's the only question that I have and it could go either way for me.
You know, but the twist makes everything ambiguous.
Like it starts making everything feel either like metaphorical or like, like fictional,
right?
Like him shooting, him shooting the guy at the end, like we don't, I don't even believe
that that actually happened.
Like it starts to make you question everything.

(10:12):
And then I'm like, what was the point of watching this?
Well, I mean, I, I, a lot of that was happening in his own head.
That was like him wrestling with, with the actual supernatural being like the in between
one.
That was happening in his head.
And then I think when he ends up back in the, in the hospital room, like that is actually

(10:32):
real life again.
And then you're seeing that everybody who's working at the hospital was a member of the
cult, right?
I mean, that's kind of what I think.
He's just, he's just, yeah.
He's just a vessel for this.
That's why he's like, so he's an actual body with a spirit of it.
With the empty man in it.
Yeah.
Okay.

(10:52):
No, he is, he is the empty man.
The, the, the empty man, the supernatural being is I think called the in between one
or whatever.
That's like a different thing.
Okay.
They need the vessel to be empty for that spiritual being.
So he is a physical being.
Yeah.
But he's only existed for three days.
He's ex, he's existed just for three days.
Apparently.
No, I got that part.

(11:12):
Okay.
That makes more sense now.
Yeah.
That was the part that was like, I was just like, I don't know.
I mean, but you know, despite anything that happens at the end, I think this movie was
really well done, especially the part that you were alluding to before Ethan, when he
goes to camp elsewhere or whatever.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the main thing I remember from this movie is that scene when he's watching

(11:36):
from afar, like the flames dance up.
And then when you, when he comes back down to earth, like they're all looking at him
and they take a step towards him.
They're like all, you know, walking as this one conglomerated mass.
Like that was really fucking scary.
Yeah.
I do think they, they, this gets into another issue where it's like, I, they have that bit
where they kind of undercut the, the fear with a joke where he's like, uh, no, thanks

(12:00):
or whatever.
And then I was reading some, I was reading some stuff online.
Everybody's like, this movie is so funny.
I'm like, I didn't think it was funny at all.
How are you reading reviews?
That was like the only joke, but I was like, all right, you've ruined the tension.
Um, no, I can go on Reddit and like read some of this shit.
Like everybody's saying the movie is like hilarious, which I don't get at all.
I don't understand that at all.

(12:21):
That was kind of like a, like a Marvel sort of audience stand in type of joke.
I think, I mean, I guess that's kind of what Jordan Peele named his movie after.
Nope.
Like in a scene exactly like that one, you know?
Yeah.
Which I also liked that, that crowd scene where they're mimicking or like stepping towards
him when he steps back, which is basically the exact scene from the prologue.

(12:43):
Um, which, uh, which, which like, can we just talk about the prologue for a second?
Cause like, as we were watching this, as I started it, I was like, all right, okay.
You got the, you know, the cold open and then it just kind of kept going.
Like this was a long ass prologue.
But in my opinion, I think it's the best part of the movie is the first 20 minutes.

(13:04):
Exactly.
I think it's such a perfect horror snapshot of what, like what the premise is because
the whole second half for me really sagged.
I think maybe it felt so disconnected up until like the very, very like last 10 minutes though.
Um, I thought it was, I thought it was really cool.
I definitely, I felt like there was much more of like, uh, an engaging main character to,

(13:29):
to hold onto for the, you know, the actual bulk of the movie.
Like I really did like the, uh, whatever his name, Jason, lasso James or James.
Yeah.
I just, uh, I looked up what that means.
It means the shadow in Spanish.
So that's kind of, that's kind of, that's pretty deep guys.
Actually.
Yeah.
It's really funny.
Did you, uh, did you, whenever y'all first turned on the movie, did y'all like see, cause

(13:49):
they were like, everybody's, everything's obscured in this movie.
Like they love to just block people's faces with either shadows or blur or just weird
shit.
But did y'all think that it was Aaron Paul and Jake Johnson whenever y'all first saw
like the intro characters?
No, they literally, they literally just looked like, like, uh, what are those people that

(14:10):
just dress up as somebody else?
Cosplayers.
Cosplayers.
Yeah.
They just looked like Aaron Paul and Jake Johnson cosplayers.
That was funny.
We got, they got close.
I can see that.
He thought he was going to call the empty man a bitch.
I like Aaron Paul.
Yeah, me too.
I remember, cause when the first character, what is his name?
Like Nick or something.

(14:31):
It was, is it Nick?
Yeah, it's Nick.
The guy that falls in the hole.
Uh, shout out to you guys, uh, representing all the Knicks out there.
Uh, when he falls into that hole and you get to see that like genuinely incredible prop
of like the bone creature.
What the hell do you guys, do you guys think that was another person or do you think that

(14:51):
is the original being, whatever this whole thing is?
I think that's, yeah, that's where this all stems from.
That's like a shrine dedicated to the actual supernatural being.
Do you think that's its body?
Like it's a decayed body?
I mean it could be.
It looked like a pretty tall being.
And it was like, had really bad arthritis and like 20 fingers.

(15:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it could be for sure.
And it had all these like bones, stems coming out of its back.
I don't know.
I will say the green screen effects and like all of the like visuals of that intro scene
were really ugly.
It like, they had really bad haloing.
There was a couple of green screenshots.
I remember being like, yeah.
Of the, of the mountain.
I was just like, oh my God, that looks like a little thing.

(15:33):
And then they took away, they took it away from the like the mountain side.
So I was like, hell yeah.
Did all this stuff that was on your desk just fall off a mountain?
No, my dog just decided to shake.
Oh, okay.
Dammit, dog, we're recording.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I didn't really ever feel like it looked that bad in particular.

(15:54):
I thought, especially for being like a pretty mid-budget movie, I thought this movie actually
looked really good.
No, I think for the most part, it genuinely has like great cinematography, great lighting.
Everything looks visually good.
There was like one or two shots, I think in the beginning that were just like, they did
film on location, but I think there were some they had to do reshoots for or something,

(16:15):
but they just looked a little off to me.
But yeah, no, this movie looked really good.
I think the cinematography was good, but I think they like butchered a lot of this movie
in post-production.
Like they put so much like glow on everything.
And like, did you remember the scene whenever he's talking to the, to his daughter's friend
in the car and they kept just panning, they kept switching to this shot where have him

(16:37):
from outside his car and it's just a big glare on his face.
And I'm just like, you can't see anything.
Why are you choosing this shot?
I don't remember that.
Yeah, I did not notice that.
Oh, it's the cinematographer for the kissing booth, the kissing booth two, the kissing
booth three.
That's all he's known.
No, that would be really funny.

(16:57):
No, he's also done one of the purge movies, one of the Texas chainsaw remakes, man on
the moon from 1999.
What the Jim Carrey one?
Jim Carrey.
Yeah, that was good.
But yeah, no, actually speaking of that scene in particular, I don't know exactly what you're
referring to Nick, but I thought the editing in that scene was really good.

(17:20):
Actually how they show her, the daughter's friend looking out the window and it's shot
in a very eerie way, but you don't actually see anything scary, but it makes you feel
scared just the way it shot until, I don't know, whenever they show the kids.
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Like that, that last, that was sort of a reveal at the end, but it's sort of just tension
building up until then, which I thought was good.

(17:42):
I think they made it super, they made it way too obvious that the daughter was like kind
of like malevolent in that bridge scene.
I don't think so.
I think, oh, I mean, well, yeah, you could definitely tell something was up because she
was being, she was way too into it, but I wouldn't say that gives anything away.
And she was like, well, she was like smiling and stuff and everybody's freaking out on

(18:04):
the, when they're about to run away and stuff.
I don't know.
That's like, kids just like being spooked, Nick.
You don't remember being spooked when you're a kid.
It was a stress.
I was thinking like, well, this girl's like a spook aficionado.
I didn't think that was like necessarily it meant she was evil or a cold.
I was expecting her to be a bad guy.
Nick doesn't like goth girls because they're too scary.

(18:24):
Dude, I, I, okay.
Her fucking Velma ass bowl cut was so bad.
She looked like Will from Stranger Things.
That's the thing that makes you realize she's a bad person before anything else.
It was pretty rough.
I didn't hate this movie though.
It was, I just, I feel like I've seen this movie, but better already.

(18:47):
Like what?
Like literally I would like the whaling.
I would go watch the whaling again over this.
I like how it felt like the first half of this movie felt of kind of paint by numbers.
Like even up to that bridge scene where it's like, Hey guys, let's have a, you know, let's
play around and call the evil boogeyman, the bye bye man.

(19:10):
And then, and then you get into the second or the middle portion, which I'll be honest,
I was struggling.
I was like, this is dragging a bit because it's just kind of turns into him deep diving
into a cult.
And that revolves around a lot of scenes of him looking through filing cabinets and going
through folders and walking through alleyways and going and not really talking.

(19:32):
He does a lot of talking to himself.
Did you guys notice that?
That was kind of annoying.
He kept being like, what the, how'd they get this?
Yeah, whenever he, whenever he drives away from the people chasing him, he's like, what
the hell is that?
Oh my God.
It's like Leon from Resident Evil.
Dude, the one thing that made me laugh, one thing that made me laugh so hard in this movie
was whenever he goes to the cult place and they're like, fill out this questionnaire.

(19:53):
He fills it out and it's like, the sky is actually red because science tells you it's
blue.
And there's like every single thing.
It was like, it was the most absurd.
There was, yeah, it was all conspiracies.
And it's like, I know you're trying to make this like correlation to like some other cult
or something, but like most cults ease you into this shit.
Like this is ridiculous.

(20:14):
Is that what that was?
I didn't even understand it.
It was like a questionnaire.
Yeah.
Like they were, you were supposed to, you could get in if you said all that shit was
true.
Is that what it was?
No, I took it as like, no, it's like if you have, they show all these different options.
Like if you have any doubts or feel any truth towards any of these sentences, mark it down.
And they give you a score or four pages.

(20:36):
Yeah.
And I figured it would be like, they're probably going to, it's like this, it's a cult.
They're probably going to emotionally, mentally tackle these people in a different way, depending
on how they mark up their doc, you know, their, but start with the most extreme shit.
They ease you into it.
And this, there was no easing.
It was like, we're saying a bunch of absurd shit right off the bat.

(20:58):
Yeah.
But that was, that was not even their beliefs really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They were like, do you believe that?
Do you think this is absurd?
And then it's like, Oh, I think the moon landing's fake.
You know, that person's going to have a very different, uh,
Perseverance.
The receptionist looked like she was straight out of Twilight too.
They didn't go right into like Xenu and like spirit cleansing or whatever, like, like,

(21:19):
Scientology or whatever.
Welcome, pray to the empty man.
They don't do that either at Scientology.
Um, well, Scientology, they're basically just like, we're going to help you do well in life.
This is all just little baby life lessons to help you deal with stress.
Yeah.
It's like that.
That's where you start.
That's how, that's how you pay them.
I actually thought the Steven roots and that's his name, right?

(21:41):
That, that actor who is the cult leader, his entire speech, it was really, it was good.
It was really well written.
Like when he went into the Nietzsche quotes and everything, I thought all that stuff was
really, really well done, which makes you realize that this movie is like undoubtedly
a cut above shit, like the bye bye man, even if it makes you feel like it might be going
there in that direction in the beginning, because those movies would never have anything

(22:04):
that could help them.
No, no.
Cause they kind of stop as soon as they get to the junk where it's teens getting slaughtered
by a ghost.
That's kind of all they have to offer.
Whereas this was like, that's what you think we have to offer.
I mean, even in the name itself, the empty man is paralleling slender man, you know,
the bye bye man, the boogey man.
So it's already playing on your expectations in that way.

(22:27):
Yeah.
I mean, did you guys think the cops were involved with the Colt at all?
Were cops in this movie?
Oh, I forgot they were at the very beginning.
Well, he goes right to the cops right after he leaves camp elsewhere.
So either his body was previously a cop or they were in on it.

(22:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
It was like.
Because, yeah, cause how would they have known he was a cop before, unless the Colt told
him all what all his memories were.
That's true.
Yeah.
Which the cop, the main cop dude was Tara Blackter.
Oh, the black dude?
Yeah.

(23:09):
I don't know.
I don't think anyone was.
And the wife.
The wife was bad too.
Everybody else is pretty good.
The wife, she's in a lot of stuff.
I probably have seen her face more in movies than anyone else.
It also was a first time director.
So maybe it was like more.
Well besides Steven Root, Steven Root has been in a lot of stuff, but the way he's the

(23:30):
only recognizable actor.
That was basically like a glorified cameo role.
He was only in that one scene.
But I mean the white, I don't know her name, but she.
His name is Maren Ireland.
She's been in a lot of stuff, right?
She was hamming it up pretty hard in those early scenes she was in.
She was in I am Legend, Hell on High Water, The Irishman, The Boogie Man from 2023.

(23:52):
Oh yeah.
She plays the Irishman's daughter.
That's right.
She plays De Niro's daughter.
For a directorial debut, I would say this movie is pretty solid.
Yeah, this is great.
For your first go at it, you know.
I just don't know if he's going to get a chance to make another one because this thing just
they didn't give it a chance or market it at all and it tanked.

(24:15):
Well, I also, it was through like a big production company.
I was surprised.
It was during the Disney merger, I think.
So Disney, Hulu, Fox or whatever.
They all just dumped it.
It was a Fox movie, I think.
That might be wrong.
Damn.
Well, yeah, it's on Hulu.
I mean, he's also an older guy.
I think he was like 54 now or some shit.
Damn.

(24:35):
That's crazy that you just do this for however long.
You get to make your first movie at 54 and then you just never get to do it again.
Yeah.
It's a rough industry, dude.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Jesus Christ.
I mean, it only had a 16 million dollar budget.
So I mean, I'm sure he'll get another job at some point.
He made a lot of cinematography, I think.

(24:56):
He made a decent movie for not too crazy amount of money.
He seems to direct a lot of making of documentaries like on the DVD, like Blu-ray bundles.
Like he made the Inside, Inside Lewin Davis, which is the making of Inside Lewin Davis.
He directed that.
He directed the how the social network was made.
A bunch of those.
Same with Panic Room.

(25:17):
Oh, so he must have a relationship with Fincher then, right?
Probably, yeah.
He does.
I was looking it up.
That's like because I was looking up what cameras they were using and apparently he
like got a lot of recommendations from Fincher.
It does look very like Zodiac aesthetic.
One thing that bothered me a little bit is like, I guess I will say bother.
It didn't look bad.

(25:37):
I just it's I hate when I notice things that I shouldn't notice because it very much looked
like they like were using filters to try to make it look like they were using old lenses,
but they were very much just shooting on like 8K digital cameras.
And it just looked kind of weird at times.
Well there's a couple of shots in this in this movie that I thought were like exceptionally

(25:58):
impressive.
Like you remember when he's looking at the map and then it starts flipping around and
they do like the drone shot.
Yeah, that was really, really well done.
And then it even just like goes all the way straight down and just into the following
the car.
That was like I was thinking about how that would be planned out.
Yeah, it was super seamless.
It was great.
I don't think the cinematography is bad.
I'm just saying like I think a lot of the stuff that I'm talking about is more so like

(26:20):
stuff they didn't post.
Yeah.
But yeah, overall, I feel like I'm feeling a like a like a seven on this movie.
I thought it was really good.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm in like a six.
I was while I was watching it and I was at the middle point where it was really dragging

(26:41):
before the reveal because this is a movie where I think the reveal recontextualizes
the entire movie and kind of adds layers to it.
I was floating at a five to a six.
I was like not I was like, man, I'm really bummed.
I need something to win me over.
And then the ending recontextualizing everything bumped it to a seven.

(27:03):
And I give it a like on letterbox, which means I liked it.
Yeah, it's okay.
You all weren't you all are crazy high with it.
So I mean, we're not too far off.
I wouldn't blame anyone for saying this is a I gave it a six.
I I just I don't know.
I just wish that the ending hit harder for me.
I saw the twist.

(27:23):
I didn't see the twist coming, but I saw a twist coming and it just didn't hit me very
hard.
Yeah.
Well, there's got to be some some kind of twist coming because you start looking at
the runtime left and you're like, how are they going to wrap this up?
Like nothing makes sense.
Yeah, they have to just like try to try to wrap it up with this weird explanation of
him being a topa, I guess, but I don't know what what what are some other stories of topas

(27:49):
and then that you've seen?
Even because I that's like my favorite sort of horror is to have like somebody somebody
there that's always a staple in your life that actually isn't them.
Like that to me is really scary.
That's not exactly the way it's using this.
Yeah, the only thing I can think of, like I feel like it's just very popular in analog

(28:13):
horror online specifically.
It's called Greylock.
It's like this.
It's actually pretty pretty good.
It's like a 10 episode series on YouTube and they does the entire premise is based around
topas.
Was the Babadook a topa?
No, that's just a representation of grief and sadness.
Yeah.

(28:33):
That's just a regular metaphor.
Oh, wait, this is you guys hear that they they might have.
I heard some some varying reports on this, but they might have identified the who Jack
the Ripper was like a couple of days ago.
Oh, yeah, I did hear about this.
Yeah, there's like some like DNA.
There was like they they've always had a couple of potential perps for who Jack the Ripper

(28:58):
probably was basically since this happened, but they never were able to pin it down on
any specific one.
So I think what they did was they've always had like one piece of evidence that just got
has been kept somewhere and they got people that were descendants of this particular guy.
I think his name was like Aaron Kuzminski.
They got him to to give their DNA and they were able to like come up with a pretty conclusive

(29:22):
match that it was potentially this guy.
But I don't know.
I would with stuff.
This was one hundred and sixty years ago now, basically.
Right.
I think.
Yeah, I think this was like 1880s.
So yeah.
I'm glad now that we know that we can now safely walk out at night, women can know that
it's safe to walk out at night now that they caught Jack the Ripper.

(29:43):
Now they just have to worry about Jack the Ripper's ghost who could potentially be even
more dangerous.
Yeah, it's interesting, too, because it was like I asked my wife about this.
She was in psychology a lot in high school and they talked about Jack the Ripper and
all the theories that people had on exactly like who he might have been.
And the two popular theories were it was either a woman or it was a doctor because they had

(30:08):
such like a detailed knowledge on female anatomy, like internally, because it was always women
were specifically prostitutes were killed by Jack the Ripper.
So it turns out it was very tropey because it was a barber.
Imagine like.

(30:28):
Getting away, like being on your deathbed, knowing you killed all these fucking people
and you just nobody knows.
Like that'd be insane.
Is that your dream?
You're like, I can die happy.
I killed so many.
That's fucking crazy, though, bro.
Like imagine imagine he was like a religious person.
He's like, I can't wait to go to fucking wherever the fuck I'm going, dude.

(30:51):
I mean, that's what Zodiac always talked about was that every person he killed would get
to go with him into the afterlife.
Do you think that's the makeup?
Some weird shit.
I wonder if that's how Benjamin Button felt instead of killing people.
He got away with aging backwards and only letting like probably 15 people in the entire
world know about it.
That's pretty cool.

(31:11):
Do you think that would be better?
Um, how I haven't watched it.
How is he birthed?
Like a full sized person?
No, he's birthed like tiny.
Yeah, tiny, really hilarious.
So he looks like a snail.
Yeah.
But like, you get is a good movie, though, actually, I think it is a good movie.
You get the shitty part out of the way early, you know?

(31:32):
Yeah, but then I mean, the whole movie is about how like there's there's really only
like a 10, 15 year gap where him and Cate Blanchard, who's love of his life, like they
actually line up where it's sort of acceptable for them to date.
Like she can she talks, she likes him as a friend for the first like 20 years of his
life.
But it's only when they start getting into their late 30s and 40s where they sort of

(31:55):
look like they're the same age.
But then they have a kid and she's like, I actually he's actually like, you can't raise
both of us like you can't grow old with me.
I'm becoming a fucking toddler.
You know, so it's going to be so wild.
Yeah, that's one of the Bradley Pittsburgh, right?
Yeah.
Oh, well, guys, speaking of analog horror, there's have you guys heard of the monument

(32:19):
mythos?
Yes, I have not.
I think there's a YouTuber named Wendigoon.
He has a video.
I've been like sitting in my watch list.
It's yeah, that's where I learned about it, too.
But it's basically I don't know where exactly it came from.
But Wendigoon goes into it.
It's just like one of those analog horror things that like the the whole backstory behind
it is through all of America's biggest monuments like Mount Rushmore, Lincoln Monument, Washington

(32:45):
Monument, there's all these like giant monsters living under them.
And they're they, you know, at night when no one's watching, they have to feed on human sacrifices
and stuff.
That's fucking metal as hell.
That's really weird.
It reminds me of like a lethal company or something.
They have like weird edited videos where you can see like snake legs coming out of the
Washington Monument and stuff.

(33:06):
Are these just like those like, like, what are they called where the people just post
shit online and they just make up those stupid stories?
Is that what it is that you're talking about?
Creamy pasta.
Oh, that too.
Yeah, this is just like you've written the stories.
Interesting.
I never got them.
I never understood the like appeal.
You should at least you just listen to Creepcast.
That's a funny podcast.
It's Wendigoon and Papa Meat from Meat Canyon.

(33:28):
They just read shitty ones and good ones.
Yeah, I mean, Creepypasta is kind of I feel like that's not as popular now.
Now it's been replaced by these analog cards.
It's basically like more of a high effort version of it because Creepypasta, that's
where Slender Man came from and stuff like stuff like the Sorter, the empty man is talking
about, you know, where it's like, oh, you know, like the Internet's version of Bloody

(33:53):
Mary, like go in front of the mirror and say Bloody Mary three times.
It's just evolution of that stuff.
You know, it's crazy how like how much content is just created by random people online nowadays.
Like I have friends who literally read like I forget what it's called, like lit something,
but they just literally go on Reddit and like read novels that people are releasing like

(34:13):
every couple of weeks or something.
It's just it's like a like RPG based storytelling stuff.
And it's so weird.
People are like, oh, they're kind of more open to different types of content nowadays.
There's so much stuff like there.
There's 60,000 new songs that get uploaded to Spotify every single day.

(34:35):
I don't I mean, I'm sure it's even more YouTube videos, which, you know, as three of us being
YouTubers, anytime your video even does mildly well, it's it's important to remember that
it's it's cool that out of all that competition, you're as floated to something that resembles
the top.
You know, that's pretty cool.
You know, yeah, yeah, I agree.
It's kind of wild that we never talk about us being YouTubers.

(34:56):
Like that's that's how we all met and how we're doing like what we do most of the time,
but we just never talk about it.
Yeah, let's talk about it.
Because being a YouTuber is really cringe.
I don't think being YouTubers cringe.
Maybe being like certain types of YouTubers can be if I'm if I'm the type of YouTuber
that's sitting there like, what's up, guys, welcome to my video.
We are going to be blowing up a Tesla.

(35:16):
I mean, blowing up a Tesla.
That's kind of sick.
And I'm doing great if I'm blowing up a Tesla.
I don't think being a YouTuber is cringe, but I'm reminded that some people do based
on the reactions that I get in real life when I tell people that I do this.
I think letting people know that you're not a big YouTuber is cringe.
Like being a small YouTuber is cringe.

(35:37):
Well, I mean, I don't even know if it's that.
Like I never I didn't even say either way.
It was like, oh, I have a channel where I do some of this and some of that.
And they're like, I get to see people's eyes wandering away and like wanting to go talk
to someone else.
And this has happened to me like multiple times.
And like, all right.
Really?
Yeah.
People usually are fairly interested in it whenever I mean, I don't really bring it up
to a lot of people, but I do.

(35:57):
I feel like people ask a lot of questions.
I live in Brooklyn.
You have to remember everyone's.
Everybody's all everybody only cares about themselves.
Yeah, everyone.
How can you help me?
Exactly.
I care about you insofar as you can bring them some kind of status or help them in some
way.
That's not really true.
I mean, I've met a lot of nice people here, but a lot of people are that way.

(36:20):
Social climbing fucks.
But I always I mean, that's how it is.
I always forget that I have family that occasionally watches my YouTube videos or whatever.
And then I'll have to be like, oops, just some of the shit I've said, like a lot of
like political stuff where I like disagree with the majority of my family.
I'm like, oh, I forgot they listened to my videos.

(36:41):
So I just called them out.
You get fucking idiots.
You don't get political that often though, do you?
No, occasionally I'll just drop something occasionally and then I'll be like, oh, I
forgot.
Whoops.
I watched your video.
It was great.
I've made like two mentions of me not liking Trump in my videos.
And I don't know, I don't usually talk about politics all that much.

(37:05):
I definitely I have aspirations to do it more eventually, but it's it's kind of it's not
really I don't know.
I feel it's intimidating.
It's easier for me to talk about things that don't matter as much, you know, like not that
not that media doesn't matter, but like politics have way more of a material impact on people's
lives.
So I feel like you have to be one of those egghead type people to really, really comment

(37:27):
on it.
You know, yeah.
I feel like my niche is so small already, like compared to a lot of people that like
I don't want to alienate people more.
And I also don't care what people's beliefs are.
If you have a Nazi in your in your.
Oh, sorry.
I'm not allowed to say that.
If you have an N word in your chat.
No, not that one either.

(37:48):
That's maybe one of those guys that that does a salute in your in your comments being like,
you know what?
I really relate to this guy.
Thanks, buddy.
You're the best.
What are you going to do?
Let's put Nick to the test.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Thanks, buddy.
I support your rights to be a terrible scumbag.
No, that's where that's where I utilize the heart message button and don't reply.

(38:12):
Also, you're platforming these people.
So would heart their messages.
Why?
What do they say?
Wait, what did they say?
They literally said, I'm a proud NAZI and I really agree with all your opinions.
You're great.
Yeah, they would never say that.
But if they said that, I would just theoretically, I would just ignore the message and leave
it there.
I don't know.
Just leave that comment there.

(38:33):
Wow.
Why not?
Well, here's like, here's a good example.
Like you made you made a video comparing Dune and Lord of the Rings.
And like, you probably don't know this, but Nazis really like Lord of the Rings and and
don't like Dune as much because they feel like Dune is a story about emancipating indigenous
people, whereas Lord of the Rings is not by any real, not by virtue of anything that's

(38:58):
actually in the movie.
It's more of the adaptation is like a very white story about, you know, good versus evil
in a Judeo-Christian sense or whatever.
So a lot of Nazi people really, they think of Lord of the Rings, things like Lord of
the Rings and the Northmen stuff like that as like the pinnacle of white culture or whatever.
So you could, you know, with it with no actual intention on your own, you could put something

(39:21):
like that out and have some guy with a username like 1488 Nazi, Kanye guy or whatever.
You like, dude, this was epic as fuck.
Like thank you for supporting the movement.
You know, like, I get those comments sometimes the people that are like, or what do they
say based based video, bro?
I'm just like, all right, cool, dude, or whatever.

(39:41):
I hate this woke shit.
Oh, but like, but like, I, I just don't care.
Like they can take what they want from my videos.
It's not my intention.
So it's like, I'm not going to just sit around and try and correct them all day.
I think, you know, earlier you guys asked like, is it awkward to tell people that you're
a YouTuber or a small YouTuber?
I will always hold credence in the fact that I have never had to tell anybody that I'm

(40:05):
a Star Wars YouTuber.
So that's good.
Cause I think if we're talking politics intersecting with art for some reason, fucking Star Wars
always ends down that path.
Yeah, I think the closest I ever got to something political in my videos was my comedy video.
Yeah.
There were so many comments.
There was a lot of comedy woke.

(40:27):
Yeah.
But it's like, I mean, and to be too, too, too, their credit, I guess it did for a little
bit, but it wasn't like a long-term thing.
Right.
It was like, I wouldn't even say it was that I would say it's a much more complicated issue
that are a much more complicated discussion, which is why they slap on the very simple
vocabulary of going, this is obviously, this is obviously more to it.

(40:50):
And that's, that was kind of the point of my video, but like, but I think it is very
easy to just say, like people are afraid to offend people nowadays.
Yeah.
I mean, that's so true.
I think there's, there's, there's, there's some of that, but at the same time, I think
there's been a huge resurgence of comics that are like, their only thing is that I don't

(41:12):
give a shit.
I'm going to say whatever the fuck I want.
I'm Ben Margera, except I'm a comedian and I'm going to say whatever the fuck I want.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Shane, I think Shane Gillis, he, he's a really interesting comedian to me because
I think if you listen to him unfiltered on his podcast, which I, I'm a fan of his, I
like him, although we don't align politically, but he's definitely more, way, way more conservative

(41:38):
than he actually lets on in his standup.
I don't know if you would agree with that, but like, because like, if you listen to his
standup, he's often like, Oh, my dad's a dumbass Trump supporter.
I w I come home, watch like he's watching Fox news and it's embarrassing to me.
That's like the gist of a lot of his jokes.
But then if you listen to him on his podcast, he's a lot of times like, I kind of actually
like Trump, you know, like I don't, I don't actually know where to place him.

(42:00):
I feel like I met him in the white house and shit.
I mean, I think I, I just, I just don't like care unless, unless you're like going overboard
with it in the sense of like, like, I don't know.
I think if you're trying to like, I think on either side, left or right, if you're a
famous person and you're trying to sway people's political opinions, like the average audience,

(42:22):
like I think you're a piece of shit.
I think that's not your place.
I don't think that you're qualified to be giving the general audience political perspectives
and like trying to sway people's votes in either direction.
I think it's stupid because they're, they're people, they're people who are made, who are
paid to play pretend.
They literally stand in front of people and they're like, okay, pretend to be somebody

(42:44):
else for a couple of minutes.
There are millions of dollars.
Yeah, they're, they're artists.
And first of all, like, I don't like this take when it's like, oh, you, what, what you
need like a political science degree from Harvard or like experience in public service
to like speak on politics.
It affects everyone.
It politics it by definition is the arena of everyone that lives in the country.
So to say that you can't speak on it because what, because I'm not saying you can't speak

(43:07):
on it.
I'm saying I don't take anything that those people say seriously and I don't put any credence
to their political views.
They're also in like, it's, it's the same as like, whenever you're somewhere like, say
I'm in like the middle of fucking Kentucky, like in some podunk ass town, I'm not going
to take the political views of some random person I talked to there.
Seriously.

(43:28):
It's the same, same for if I'm in the middle of LA where everybody is super, super liberal.
I'm not going to take any of their fucking like opinions very seriously either.
There's, there's just so, so many extremes and a lot of people in Hollywood are just
built on those extremes.
I don't like that on each side.
Why is it, why is an opinion more valid because it's not extreme though?
Is it like, does it are the only valid opinions, things that are moderate?

(43:51):
Like you have to be right down to the middle.
A lot of the times when you listen to these, especially like younger celebrities, they
have very, very like imbalanced political takes that don't.
I mean, the thing is when you have extreme problems in a country, sometimes extreme solutions
sound like they make sense, which is why a lot of people liked with that Luigi Mangione
guy did, you know, where they're like, what, how many people have to die indirectly for

(44:16):
through our healthcare system?
I genuinely think there's some actual consequences for this thing.
I genuinely think are like, it's a meme and people don't understand the difference anymore.
It gets lost.
I think it was a joke that people supported him and now people actually support him because
no, I don't think it was funny.
When it happened, people were like, hell yeah.
Yeah, I don't think so.

(44:37):
No, I don't.
I genuinely talked to so many people that were like, like in my real life, not even
internet people, like real people at my work or in person neighbors, there's been like,
do you see what he did?
Pretty good.
See, that's, that's insane.
Do you understand that?
That's insane.
I think that's just like, that's like, there's something wrong with people who think it's

(44:58):
okay.
I don't know.
Right?
I thought it was okay.
I mean, do you think was George Washington a hero?
I don't know enough about George Washington to say, I mean, he led the revolution against
the British that he broke the American colonies free from, from colonialism, from, from the,
you know, taxation, I'm not saying the guy, I'm not saying the guy he killed is a good

(45:20):
guy or he did great things or anything.
George Washington used violence to, to become a hero in the American public's eyes.
And now this guy, I think the only reason people might not, they have a different opinion
of him is because it just happened.
Whereas maybe 200 years from now, people would be like, oh, that guy started something.
He was a revolutionary.

(45:41):
He just killed some sociopathic capitalists.
Like that's all it was.
Like, yeah, it's a symbol.
But you understand like he is probably a pretty unhinged person for doing something like that.
Right?
Like, maybe a lot of the doers in, in, in American history and world history are, are
psychotic in one way or another.
That doesn't mean they didn't have to, they didn't do something that, that started.

(46:03):
I mean, you know, it's way too early to tell what that will start if it will start anything.
I mean, a lot of the thing that I don't appreciate about it is like, I think a lot of it's going
to depend on where the court case goes for sure.
Well, I mean, the thing that I don't appreciate about it is that Luigi now, since he did,
he did that, the conversation is more about him.
I think then what he wanted to maybe incite, which is that's not really what this should

(46:27):
have been.
I think that's kind of unfortunate.
He became, like you said, he became a meme.
He, since he's handsome, he has girls like, you know, wanting to fuck him or whatever.
You know, that's, that's not really what the best case scenario of this, but you have to
expect some of that.
So I don't know.
I just, if I, if some, if somehow the stars aligned and I became somehow famous, I would

(46:51):
never try to sway anybody to bad make it.
I would, sure.
I would, I would push people to be informed and make their own political opinions and
I would push people to vote and do what they think is right.
But I would never tell people what to do because I don't think that's my place.
I don't know.
Because it's like, you don't really generally like talking about your political stances
very often.

(47:12):
So I feel like it would just be kind of that the same thing.
You just wouldn't really talk about it.
Whereas like these people, they're not trying to force people or push someone into a direction
of just stating their political views.
What's his name?
The new Hulk actor, forget his fucking name.
Mark Ruffalo.
Have you heard Mark Ruffalo talk about politics, bro?
I love it.
I love Mark Ruffalo.

(47:33):
It's horrible.
Mark Ruffalo is like a huge supporter of Bernie.
I thought he campaigned for Bernie.
I thought he did a really great job of doing that.
Because again, I just don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
I think if you want to use the social capital that you've gained through your career as
an artist to support causes that you believe in, you're not forcing anybody to do anything.

(47:55):
There's like literally nothing morally important about it.
I mean, I think people in America, like, you know, middle Americans, people like us, like,
it can feel like you're being talked down to.
So I can understand why some people don't like it.
They're like all these fucking Hollywood elites that are trying to tell me what to do all
the time.
You can either listen to them or not.
But when it comes to like the more like weighing the morality of them doing it or not doing

(48:19):
it, I think it's like it's totally on them.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it really.
You know?
I don't know.
I just, it personally rubs me the wrong way.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do it because obviously they should be able to
do whatever the fuck they want.
I feel like it just it makes me respect them less.

(48:39):
I mean, I feel like when things when things are so polarized, when there's so many really
divisive issues in the country, it's almost like why wouldn't you say if you really if
you're out there and you have millions of people listening to you and you feel like
you can make a difference, why not try?
You know?
I don't know.
I feel like it's almost fucked up to not say something about it.

(49:00):
Rather just like let the world burn and be like, oh, well, it's not really my place to
say anything.
I think it was even like Taylor Swift a few years ago.
She got to a point where she was like trying to stay neutral, like not even neutral, just
not give her opinions on it.
Yeah.
But she had so many fans that were just like super far right.
And she's just like, I can't do this anymore.

(49:21):
I'm just going to tell you guys I'm very left.
And I think you guys are psychos.
I'm paraphrasing.
And then she lost a lot of fans.
But I was like, yeah, it would probably eat at you for a while.
Just like I'm, you know, these people think that I'm representing a part of them through
my art.
And when I don't want them to think that.
Yeah.
But I think it doesn't.
I don't know.

(49:42):
I personally wouldn't matter to me like what people take for my shit.
I get I get really fed up with the whole.
I hear a lot of people that are just like, you know, both both extremes are bad.
We need to be somewhere in the middle, guys.
We need to calm down when it's like the less so true.
But when it's like the hard left is like, hey, we need we have a lot of like subgroups

(50:03):
that need rights and we would like free health care because people are poor and dying on
the streets.
And then that's that's that's and then the fucking far right is like, let's kill trans
people.
Let's get rid of minority.
What you're saying is the people who are more in the center.
No, no, not at all.
Not at all.
No.
What do you mean in the center?

(50:24):
I mean, what do you mean?
Yeah, that's like what?
I mean, to like what to actually be in the American center nowadays, you have to like
you have to countenance all those things.
You have to be like, oh, trans people don't have rights anymore.
There's going to be ICE raids throughout every major American city.
And what I guess to be in the center, you have to be like, I just don't really care
about that, whatever.
That's why I feel like the center's position is kind of fucked up at this point, because

(50:47):
it's like you still have to you still have to know.
But people people who are in the center still have that decision.
They can decide the lesser of two evils.
Right.
It's not I'm going to vote for this side no matter what.
It's I'm going to fucking see what works best for me.
Right.
It's just it's I find it at the the statement absurd when people go like, oh, well, I'm

(51:08):
not like very less bring up gay marriage when people are like, I'm in the center.
You know, I'm not for it.
I'm not I'm not against it either.
And I'm like, OK, so if you're not supporting it, then you are against it.
If you're not directly being like, I'm OK with this.
But I don't think that you are.
I don't think most people are like that, though.
I've had someone literally a family member say that to me.
Well, yeah, I mean, I haven't heard that too much.

(51:30):
But I mean, I don't think that's I think whole I think sitting in the center on an issue
is whack.
I agree with you because I think everybody has a stance on something.
But Nick, like the reason why you don't hear that anymore is because there were a whole
lot of people who at the time you might have considered annoying being like, no, we actually
do need gay people to have the right to be able to marry.

(51:51):
And those people were loud enough for a lot for a long enough period of time that eventually
there was a Supreme Court decision that said, OK, I guess we can we can actually do this
now in 2013.
Like fucking Obama, Obama and people like Hillary Clinton, they were on the fence about
this issue.
They were like, oh, you know, it's a states rights thing or I'm not going to really fall
on it one way or another.
It was only after there were enough people like, what the fuck are we doing?

(52:14):
You know, that they were actually given the right to do that.
And it takes a lot of people being kind of annoying about it to to to disrupt the the
flow of daily life enough to to make people realize you have this is heard to make change.
I think we're saying I think we're saying this is similar things.
I think I just didn't understand what you meant where like because obviously everybody

(52:36):
has a stance on something.
Some people just don't want to say it, obviously.
But but yeah, I think I think being open.
The arguments on both sides, both sides, I don't think you should be so dead set on everything
one side has to say, because that's not the case for me.
I obviously think I think we should have a stricter border protocols.
Like I'm more conservative on that side.

(52:57):
You know, my my thing is, it's like, especially in somewhere like America, America is so skewed
to the right that by just saying you're in the center, like you are a conservative, just
because every other country, every other industrial country offers things like like state health
care to its citizens, universal health care.
So if you're if you're going to say that you don't support that, that's a conservative

(53:20):
position in any other country in the world.
So I feel like to actually be on on the left in America, you would have to go way beyond
that.
You would have to talk about the dismantling of capitalism and everything, which which
are most prominent, like leftist figures aren't even saying that.
I mean, Bernie Sanders is really he's a socialist in name in name only in terms of like what

(53:40):
he actually ran on.
He was just he was running on like basic, basic like social like social lives.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And people called him the most radical person in the goddamn world.
Meanwhile, Trump isn't a radical somehow.
I'm definitely more conservative than both of you guys, but I'm definitely not a conservative.
I don't know.
Well, I'm also I'm also I'm also in Texas and y'all are I have I grew up very different

(54:05):
from y'all.
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of conservatives in New Jersey, too.
There's a lot of people who that I grew up with that for some reason would like fly fucking
rebel flags and everything like Confederate flags.
It was so cringe.
I grew up in a tiny ass little hillbilly town.
So yeah, I've had a lot of that, too.

(54:25):
You have no excuse like at least it this argument doesn't really sway me at all when people
from the south do it.
It's like it's our heritage.
If you're from New Jersey, playing that flag, it's like what what the fuck excuse that you
have.
Yeah.
Anyway, I want I wanted to bring this up, too.
You guys notice like I was talking about since we're talking about celebrity worship in a

(54:46):
roundabout way.
I want to talk about you know how anytime a celebrity is like vaguely considered a good
person or they they they do things that like like you know, Keanu Reeves will sometimes
be like when people talk about how amazing the stunts are on something like John Wick,
he'll be like, oh, well, you know, that's actually a lot of that is down to my stunt

(55:08):
my you know, my stunt man.
And he'll name the guy.
And to that, like people in the comments will be like faith in humanity equals restored,
you know, for like just that one comment of the day.
Yeah, it's just like simple things like that that make people think that celebrities are
actually this like so much better than than normal people like like Keanu Reeves, for

(55:29):
example, there are certain celebrities like basic decency and they go, oh, my God, you're
so you're such a kind person.
Yeah, I think a lot of that comes from the like your expectations from celebrities are
so low, I feel like and then when they like actually are a good person, you're like, oh,
my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But to me, it's kind of like, I think people, whether they admit it or not, like they're

(55:52):
just waiting for a celebrity to give them a reason to worship them.
You know what I mean?
I had I was actually tweeted this the other day, but I was I had I was working at a tech
job for a while and I had this guy, he was like a couple of deaths down for me.
He starts crying middle of the day.
He's bawling his eyes out.
I was like, what the hell is going on?

(56:13):
This is a fucking like 25 year old guy.
And I go over and like, man, what's what's going on, dude?
Are you okay?
He's like, Dr. Disrespect just just admitted that he cheated on his wife.
He's just fucking bawling his fucking eyes out because some streamer cheated on his
wife.
Oh, my God.

(56:33):
Actually, now that you bring that up, Coltraneck, do you have a pair of sunglasses?
Um, it's not not anywhere near me.
I feel like if he threw a pair on, I look like Dr. Disrespect.
I don't even know who is that guy.
I don't know, like a Twitch streamer who is also like kind of corny.
I don't know.
He's like some old dude.
He's not the dead rat alarm clock guy, right?

(56:55):
No, that's no, that's asmongold.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, people tell me I look like Charlie, Penguin, Zio or whatever all the time.
Like a more handsome Charlie.
What's up, guys?
Thanks.
Okay.
So let's bring let's bring this back to film.
I have I have a video that I have a video that I'm making right now.
It's about like relatability in film.

(57:15):
And there's obviously like a million reasons people can actually like a movie.
Right.
But I want like but there's only certain movies that really like stick with you.
And you're like, oh, I just love this movie so so much.
Like what is the main reason movies stick with you all?
Is it relatability or something else?
Um, I don't know if it's necessary.

(57:35):
It's yeah, maybe sometimes there are definitely like actually are you know, are transpoting
to conversation.
I was telling you guys like, that's a movie that I can really relate to and has like a
special place in my heart.
So definitely sometimes if it hits on an experience that I feel like is a underrepresented and
be something that I can feel really aligns close to me closely with my own life experience

(57:58):
or whatever, then sometimes I can be like, yeah, like that movie, I would even be able
to overlook some of the faults that I see in it to be like, oh, that's actually a movie
that really means a lot to me.
But I would say that's probably not the majority of films that I have like in my top 100 lists
or whatever.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I'm kind of what would you say?

(58:19):
I would what would y'all say is the most important?
Like what's what's the thing that makes them stick out to you?
Well, let you think go first.
So I don't know if it's relatability because I'm looking at like, I don't know, I'd say
that the films that more feel like they have a personal tie to me emotionally where I have
like I hold them in a special place in my heart is like super basic theme of just like

(58:42):
how like two of them like so everything everywhere all at once and then the Iron Giant, which
are two incredibly sappy films that I love, not in a negative kind of text or connotation.
It is just they've just got a theme about why kindness and like love is the best thing
in the whole goddamn world.
And I that's something that I have a personal connection with.

(59:04):
I can ignore a lot of faults with the movie itself.
And then I have like No Country for Old Men in my top 10, which I don't really have any
personal relatability to it, but I love it.
But I think those first two are relatable.
So the way I broke it down in my script is there's situational relatability, which is
like you actually having specifically been in a situation similar to that movie.
And then there's emotional relatability, which is like you felt a way the movie is portraying,

(59:29):
right?
And then there's aspirational relatability, which is more what I usually feel.
It's like I want to feel that way or I want to go through that situation the character
is going through, right?
Like Rocky?
Yeah, like Rocky or like the Disaster Artist was my other example.
And then there's cultural relatability, which is more like everything everywhere all at
once where like you relate to it on a cultural level.

(59:52):
Like you're like, this is my world, right?
Being brought to screen.
Wait, can you explain why is the Disaster Artist aspirational?
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
I haven't seen it, but why was that?
Like Tommy Wiseau, personal hero of mine.
I mean, kind of honestly, like he had no talent.
He just believed in himself.

(01:00:15):
And everybody was talking shit to him the whole time.
Nobody believed he could do it.
And guess what?
He fucking did it, bro.
That movie is super inspirational to me.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess if you have just a random pool of dark Romanian money in your bank account
to make whatever you want, I guess I could see it just in terms of like perseverance,

(01:00:36):
I guess.
But yeah, yeah.
So hearing you break it down into those three categories like that, I definitely know where
you're coming from.
Is there definitely movies like a Complete Unknown, for instance, that would be like
aspirational relatability, which is watching someone like Bob Dylan become one of the biggest

(01:00:58):
cultural icons of all time.
It's like, you know, I don't even think most people even aspire.
I don't aspire to that, but I think that it's just cool watching somebody do that and to
put yourself in that situation for just an hour and a half or whatever is a cool thing
to see.
So I like that movie on that level.
But yeah, I guess like I was saying before, I don't know if it's relatability that always

(01:01:21):
brings me to a movie.
Sometimes I like movies for a ton of different reasons.
It'll really wow me on a technical level, or there'll be a way that I'll have to like
force myself to relate to it because it's such a, you know, it's such a foreign, not
literally foreign, but like foreign to me, to my lived experience situation that I'll

(01:01:42):
have to it's the job of the movie to make you to put you in those characters situations
regardless of how far they actually are from your own lived experience.
You know what I mean?
So when a movie can do that, I can really appreciate it.
Like, like something like Moonlight for instance, you know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, that's a great one.
I referenced Moonlight in the script too.

(01:02:03):
Yeah, I agree with you.
I think that's part of why I didn't like Dune, right?
Because I think I look for relatability in films much more than most people.
I think the movie just didn't really make me feel anything for most of the characters.
And that was like really understand their sides of things enough.
And that's maybe more my fault based on expectations of what I want from the movie than the movie's

(01:02:27):
fault.
But I completely agree.
We can't get into the Dune conversation again.
We're not going to get into the Dune.
We're not going to save it for Dune Messiah.
We've broken it down so many times.
The wait, wait, Nick, did you like the Dune book series though?
Oh, enough.
I read the first two.
I liked, I liked it.

(01:02:48):
Okay.
You didn't like it for Dune, Dune part three?
No.
I really liked, I really liked, I really liked Lady Jessica in the book.
I think her character was like my favorite in the entire book series.
And it was like, and it's like what kept me interested.
And I think they kind of didn't do enough with her in the movies.

(01:03:10):
I mean, she's really not that big of a part of the second book, you know, Lady Jessica.
Yeah, she's essentially gone for the entire thing.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, I know where you're coming from, Nick.
I think that it's, especially nowadays, I feel like it's something that we, that casting

(01:03:32):
directors and, you know, people that are writing stories, I feel like they're trying to make
the film as relatable as they can, whether it's through casting people that look like
whatever now looks like, you know?
I think of like people like Timothee Chalamet and Zendaya, they look like the aspirational
versions of what people in Gen Z want to be, like to be that cool and that attractive,

(01:03:55):
you know what I mean?
I don't know.
That's probably not really what you're talking about, but I think there's always been like
that kind of aspirational nature to casting, to put people on screen that people want to
see themselves in.
You know what I mean?
I just think I like Timothee Chalamet because I'm a Zoomer.
I think he's a cutie pie.
I like Timothee Chalamet.
Only because I've seen him act well before.

(01:04:17):
That's why I like him.
But then sometimes he's just in things that aren't amazing.
I was never really that big on him until I saw Dune, to be honest with you guys.
I was like, I didn't...
Call Me By Your Name was like his first big, big get, right?
Call Me By Your Name and that movie with him and Steve Carell, like Beautiful Boy or whatever,
that movie was pretty good.

(01:04:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That movie, yeah, that was a good movie.
I just felt like I guess I hadn't seen him showcase the whole ton of range, which again,
I think I've said this before, but it's not the most important thing to me.
I don't need an actor to be extremely transformative for me to really appreciate them.
But I kind of want to see it before I put them in the upper echelon of the other actors

(01:05:04):
in their generation.
You know what I mean?
Like I was willing to put Timothee Chalamet up there until I saw him do Paul Atreides,
which he just went to a completely other level in that movie, I think.
Like those scenes when he's whipping up the Fremen and that...
You remember that speech that he gives?
There's like millions of Fremen around.
Oh yeah.

(01:05:24):
That's such a hype scene.
Yeah, it was incredible.
I mean, he's no Leo.
We'll just say that.
Yeah, definitely.
I think Leo's overrated, honestly, if we're going to have that talk.
You don't remember when he had...
Leo's overrated?
Yeah.
He had dry lips and boogers coming out of his nose when he was eating a fish in The
Revenant and fighting a bear.
Oh, I forgot about The Revenant.
Never mind.
I take it back.

(01:05:45):
Bro, Leo is not over...
I take it back.
He's been killing it since he was like 13 years old.
Like Gilbert Grape?
Yeah, he had...
Gilbert Grape, fucking...
I mean, Titanic was his first big role and he's amazing in Titanic.
That was before Gilbert Grape?
I think it was right after.
Yeah, because I feel like that was the first time I remember seeing him, was Gilbert Grape.

(01:06:08):
Maybe, was he like a legitimate child actor?
Yeah.
He was.
But he's like a teen in that movie, right?
So he was a little kid on screen?
I don't know this.
Well, I think he started acting when he was like nine or maybe a little bit younger, but
I think he might've been in a lot of commercial stuff.
This was another thing I forgot I wanted to mention, but speaking of Leo, and Chalamet

(01:06:31):
actually, how important do you guys think it is for actors to be really attractive,
for them to get work?
Not important.
I don't know how the industry uses it, but for me...
It depends on the type...
No, I'm speaking the industry, for the industry.
You can make it as a supporting actor pretty easily not being attractive, but as a leading

(01:06:53):
man, you kind of got to be, at least in some way, shape, or form, handsome.
I don't think Mark Wahlberg...
I think Mark Wahlberg looks pretty ugly, but he's a leading man.
Mark Wahlberg is 100% handsome.
Are you crazy?
This goes back...
Bad nicknames.
He thinks...
Wait, guys, Nick thinks that Mark Zuckerberg is hot now.
Did you know this?
Yeah, Mark Zuckerberg is more of a bad guy.

(01:07:15):
Why?
Dude, he used to look like a lizard.
Now he looks like a human.
He literally just does this all the time.
He stepped up from lizard to human, and Nick's like, I fucked that guy.
Are you really thinking Mark Wahlberg is ugly?
I don't think so.
Mark Wahlberg, regardless of whether he's actually really handsome now, he was like
a sex symbol in his early 20s.
That's true.

(01:07:35):
If you look at his Calvin Klein photos back in the day, bro...
I think he's just got a weird face.
But think of what leading men...
There's Benedict Cumberbatch that's ugly and a leading man.
He has his own unique look.
But he has so much charisma.
He has so much charisma.
You need to make up with conventional looks with Riz off the charts if you're going to

(01:07:59):
be a leading man.
Do you know any incredibly attractive performers that are terrible actors?
There's a bunch.
That are still getting work constantly and are in good stuff.
That's a good question.
So incredibly attractive performers that are still getting work despite the fact that they

(01:08:19):
suck?
Is that what you said?
Yes.
I mean, there could have been an argument for Lily Rose death until Nosferatu.
The main scar's card.
Bill or Alexander?
Alexander.
Alexander's a horrible actor.
What?
He's bad.
He's a terrible actor.
The Northman.
Northman.
I mean, you guys haven't seen Succession, but he's really good in Succession too.

(01:08:40):
Oh, is he in Succession?
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Maybe he's gotten better, but his entire early career from True Blood to fucking Tarzan was
horrible.
Well, I have a hot take about Sydney Sweeney.
She's not a very good actress.
She's okay.
I don't find her attractive at all, really.
She's in Madame Webb.
And I feel like she has been kind of propped up on the fact that everybody, every man under

(01:09:04):
whatever, 50 in America thinks she's really attractive.
I don't really see it.
She looks like, I've seen millions of prettier girls in person than Sydney Sweeney.
Yeah.
That's kind of my thinking on it.
I like her.
I think she gives a fun performance.
I have watched all of Euphoria and I think she's actually pretty talented.

(01:09:25):
I don't think she's a bad actress.
I don't think she's terrible.
She never did anything to wow me.
I think now she's just going off the strength of Euphoria and kind of propping, whether
it was the roles themselves that propped her up or whipped her up into a sex symbol or
her just being on social media and the things she's done or whatever, but she's definitely

(01:09:45):
become that.
I feel like she, at this point in time, is the number one Gen Z sex symbol, probably.
For white women, yeah.
I'd say Kristen Stewart can make that list of bad actor.
Who compares against her for Gen Z?
Zendaya?
Yeah, but-
Mikey Madison?

(01:10:06):
I don't know.
I don't see people.
I'm judging based off thirst levels that I see of dudes.
That's what it needs to be and the way they're portrayed in media too.
Sydney Sweeney gets up on SNL, her monologue, like, I don't know why all these guys think
I'm attractive, but I'm enjoying it.

(01:10:27):
That's the way her public persona is all about her sex appeal at this point, it feels like.
Know who I fucks with?
Sabrina Carpenter.
I have a few of her songs on my playlist.
I think she's really talented.
We're just going to turn the last 20 minutes into the thirst section of the pod.
Another actor who sucks that's attractive that still gets work is Kristen Stewart.

(01:10:52):
Kristen Stewart's a fucking terrible actress.
She's had a couple of okay roles, but she's got no range.
You guys have seen Twilight, right?
She doesn't have vampire Riz?
You guys have all seen the Twilight movies, right?
Yeah.
Yes, of course.
All of them.
I love them.
I actually like them.
I saw the first one.

(01:11:12):
Somewhat ironically.
You got to watch all of them, Nick.
They're so funny.
They're really funny.
I remember I saw the second or third one where it was Taylor Lautner turning into a Wolverine
or something and I was like, this is gone.
And then I thought the first one was actually really good.
I remember liking that when I was a kid.
Honestly, the first one I can see why people like it.

(01:11:33):
I've rewatched that one.
That one is the best out of all of them because I'm like, I don't think it's good.
I think the acting is weird.
I think the writing is weird.
But I can tell they were trying and then the rest of them is just like slob.
Were they though?
I think so.
I do think it's pretty fucked up that the director, it was like this low budget.

(01:11:56):
They even talked about it.
They're like, we felt like it was kind of an indie film because it was pretty cheap.
And I forgot the director's name.
But she made it and it became this huge success.
And then they took it from her and just gave it to a bunch of white dudes afterwards.
A bunch of white old dudes.
Catherine Hardwick.
That's who it was.
I don't know.

(01:12:17):
I mean, but yeah, Kristen Stewart sucks.
Anyway, back to that.
No, I mean, I didn't see this movie, but didn't she get a really good reception for doing
that Princess Diana movie she did?
Spencer?
Yeah, was that good?
I didn't see that.
I didn't watch it.
I heard she was really good in that movie.
I have not seen that, but I have yet to see her in something where I thought she was better

(01:12:41):
than mediocre.
What's that movie where Mark Zuckerberg plays a stoner that's a CIA agent that gets activated
or an undercover agent that gets activated?
Mark Zuckerberg is actually in it?
No, the guy who plays Mark Zuckerberg.
Oh, Jesse Eisenberg.
Jesse Eisenberg.
Oh, he's in it with Kristen Stewart, right?

(01:13:01):
Yeah, the action movie.
Oh, is it called like, oh, shit, I know this one.
I actually liked that movie.
I don't know what it's called.
But she was pretty good in that because she was just kind of playing a little comedic role.
She wasn't trying so hard.
American Ultra.
American Ultra.
Oh, and I think that was written by Neppo Baby.
That's Max Landis.
That's actually a perfect transition.

(01:13:22):
Do we want to talk about Neppo Babies?
Yeah.
Go ahead and give us the quote we were talking about earlier.
Well, Nick was having a huge defense of Neppo Babies earlier.
I don't know why.
He loves celebrities.
He's celebrity warship.
He's got posts with him all over his wall.
I'm not defending Neppo Babies.
I'm saying it's kind of inevitable.

(01:13:44):
So you might as well just fucking accept it.
Yeah.
What does that mean?
There's nothing you can do about it.
What are you going to do?
Blacklist every child of actors?
Well, I think the only thing that people can do about it is what they have been doing,
like turning the phrase Neppo Baby into a kind of derogatory meme about these people

(01:14:05):
because they, you know, not saying that they haven't worked for anything, but they've worked
so they just by virtue of their...
Yeah.
They haven't had to work nearly as hard.
There's been no struggle really.
Yeah.
Just being giving shit.
The only times I have a problem with it is when they act like it's just as hard.
Like, oh, I changed my name.

(01:14:26):
I don't even talk about my dad.
Like Duncan Jones.
Is that who you're talking about?
Yes.
It's just like, dude, shut the fuck up.
Yeah.
But what's the quote you're talking about?
So there was, well, this is more about the Instagram followers thing.
So they did, I think it was Maya Hawke started talking about this first where she kind of
went into talking about how working with a lot of producers, the way they hire actors

(01:14:52):
is they will have a spreadsheet of all the actors that they're considering in auditions
and next to all their names will just have their Instagram follower counts because they
want them to be able to promote the film to a huge number of their own followers.
And Ethan Hawke even talked about this as well after that quote came out.

(01:15:12):
He's like, they're looking about hiring actors who have not acted before just because they're
a TikTok star or they have a lot of followers or something.
Yeah.
I'll have to find that.
Yeah.
I mean, that's one thing.
I think that's fucking, that sucks.
That's bullshit.
I've also seen that in the music industry too.
Like that guy Oliver Tree was like, my label wouldn't let me put out an album until I reached

(01:15:36):
like two or three million Instagram followers or something.
Like why sign the guy then?
But yeah, to bring it back to the NEPO babies, because my immediate reaction to that was
before I knew all the context, I was immediately just jumping down my own throw.
Like, oh, like she would ever need to fucking worry about that.
Blah, blah, blah.
I mean, Nick was saying that like, yeah, this stuff exists all throughout every facet of

(01:15:57):
industry.
So there's nothing that you can do about it, as he was saying.
But it's like, I feel like it's particularly insidious in Hollywood because the capital
that you have as a famous person is your name.
So if you're born with that name, you can parlay that name into any other industry,
the industry that your family was successful in, but also a new one, like what Maya Hawke's

(01:16:20):
done.
She, because she's famous, because her parents are successful artists, which is also, I don't
know how deep we want to go down this road, but that's also kind of like being given some
kind of like genetic gift because your parents are, you know, that's, I don't know, that's
not really a valuable conversation, but you know what I'm talking about?
I think that is a valuable asset that people don't actually take into account is like,

(01:16:42):
you're kind of probably being taught from a young age in a way that like a lot of people
aren't.
Yeah.
Which kind of is sort of up to my next point is like, I think more the issue is the money
because I think if anybody has millions of dollars and they want to be an actor, you
could technically do it.
You could fund somebody else's movie and be like, look, I want to be the main actor in

(01:17:04):
it.
I'll give you $2 million to make a movie and they'll do it.
I mean, anybody can get their foot in the door in Hollywood just with money.
I don't think being in Hollywood has anything to do with it.
It's more, I mean, if you can act like, yeah, but I mean, that's my thing is like, like
I was like you were alluding to too.
It's like they from a very young age, they're brought up in a household that values artistic

(01:17:27):
pursuits above basically all else because it's two parents that are highly successful
actors or artists operating at the top of their industry.
So that means if that kid even whispers at like, oh, I want to act too.
They're like, all right, we'll put you in front of the best fucking acting coach that
money can buy.
You have also you're growing up in a house with excellent taste.

(01:17:48):
Like you're able to develop your artistic persona just because your parents are so incredibly
supportive financially and emotionally.
I mean, that's, that is way, that's why it's not necessarily bad.
I just pointing out the facts.
It's bad.
You have an advantage.
But that's, that's everything.
Like no matter what we're doing, there's somebody who's going to be at an advantage over us.

(01:18:11):
Like yeah, no, I'm just saying like, but you said that you could just do it with money
and I don't think you necessarily can because like, so have you seen all there's, there's
a huge trend of this, like billionaire sons, fail sons, they call them like that are trying
to get into some kind of artistic pursuit.
But since their parents are like tech people or business people, they're not necessarily

(01:18:33):
brought up in a culture of our artistic talent.
They're, it's a different, it's a entire different ballgame for them.
Like these people like Maya Hawk, they're like formed from the moment they're fucking
able to walk to be artists.
It's different for billionaire kids.
Like, it's not just money.
I completely agree.
I'm just saying like, yeah, there's obviously another, another advantage there, but I'm

(01:18:57):
just saying having money in general allows you to do what you want to do, which to an
extent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To an extent, exactly.
Because have you guys seen these guys, these, these people that like, I forget who it was.
I think it was like maybe Warren Buffett's kid or one of these famous billionaires had
a son that had like the most embarrassing clothing line ever.
Because as, as we're so often reminded, if you watch these shows like Real Housewives

(01:19:21):
or whatever, which my girlfriend watches all the time, but like so often rich people do
not have tastes, you know, like taste is wasted on these people.
Price is what they pay attention to.
Yeah.
But I mean, people that are artists usually do have tastes.
So they're able to shape the tastes of their Nepo baby kids, which gives them an advantage
as well.

(01:19:42):
That being said about Maya Haq, I do think she's actually talented.
I know it's unfair.
You know, she's been giving it a clear advantage, but I do actually think she's very talented.
Same with like people like, like Jaden Smith.
I like, I think he's genuinely a decent musician.
I think he's a genuinely bad actor, but I think he's pretty good at music.
I think he's a decent musician.
I think Willow is better at music than Jaden.

(01:20:04):
She doesn't release very much music though.
Dude, she made the caught a vibe song.
She made the caught a vibe, baby, you know, she has some bangers.
Whip my hair back and forth.
Hold on, wait a minute.
Classic.
I couldn't even name a Jaden Smith song.
90?
Has he had many bangers in his life?
He has quite a few.
Icon.
I don't even know any of that shit.

(01:20:25):
He has the one from Karate Kid reboot with the Justin Bieber collab.
No, Jaden just released some new music like a couple months ago and it was pretty good.
He's a good musician.
You're saying it exists in every industry, but it's like, I don't know.
So imagine some parent owns a fucking plumbing business.
The only thing that gets passed down to that kid is $100,000 if he's lucky and a plumbing

(01:20:49):
business.
But when the name gets passed down to these actors, they can fucking do so much more with
that and we never can escape these kids.
They'll be the next masters of the next generation.
There's levels to this stuff, but that's just part of life.
Nobody's on an even level playing field.

(01:21:11):
Life doesn't exist that way.
Most people have to fight 10 times harder to do the same thing as somebody else.
That's just how it goes.
Yeah, but you're saying there's nothing to be done about it.
I think the thing to do about it is to call it out.
Because now it's-
Yeah, of course you can call it out.
Because maybe I don't think before Nepo Baby became a meme, I don't think anyone

(01:21:33):
was even thinking about this stuff in a negative light.
No, I think they were.
Not to anywhere near the extent of what it is now.
Well, I guess it depends how long back.
We were just talking about him.
What's his fucking name?
Jayden?
The writer.
Oh, Max Landis?
Max Landis.
Max Landis has been getting called out since he first came out with-

(01:21:54):
Bright.
Yeah, not Bright.
Which is an amazing movie.
Chronicle.
Shut up.
He did Chronicle and everybody's been calling him out since then, which I think that was
15 years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah, potentially.
But you have to admit, Nepo Baby is such a bigger deal now though, because of the meme.

(01:22:16):
Because it's got a catchy name to it and because it's got more or less a social media movement
behind it where everyone calls these people out now.
That's kind of all that can be done.
What can be done?
I just don't know how much- I can't really change privilege at this point in this form
where it's like, you know, like you were saying, Nick, it's like, you know, you can turn it

(01:22:37):
into a meme and kind of poke fun at them.
And I'm sure they are seeing it because there was that whole article that came out making
fun of them and that really got to them because there was a bunch of celebrities flocking
to defend them.
But that's about as much as we can do right now.
Just make them aware that everyone knows you guys had privilege to get to your position.

(01:22:58):
I just don't know how much it bothers me because I haven't seen that many instances where like
they're horrible.
Like Colin Hanks, pretty fucking good actor.
Jack Quaid.
Chet Hanks, pretty good fucking- just an amazing person all around.
If we just had more Chet Hanks's in the world, I think we'd be alright.
I love Chet Hanks.
What about John David Washington?
I actually think he's not that great of an actor.

(01:23:20):
I think he's okay.
Is that Denzel Washington's son?
Yeah.
I don't know him.
I liked him in Black Klansmen more than I liked him in-
Oh!
Oh, okay.
I know him.
He was the protagonist.
Yeah, he was not very good.
I felt like he was very underwhelming.
No, he was in that show.
The show at The Rock where he's a football manager.
WWE.
No.

(01:23:41):
Professional wrestling.
But it was really good.
It was really good.
He was good in it.
But I think he's okay.
I just haven't seen many where they're just like egregiously bad.
And I think if they were egregiously bad, they wouldn't be hired on more things.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like we're going to go in circular conversations with it just because there's

(01:24:04):
just always a reason for it just beyond the name, like I was saying before.
They're just given so much access.
The more I talk about it, the more okay I am with it.
At the beginning, I thought I was against it.
Now I'm just like, whatever.
Well, I think it's...
Yeah, you just get exposed to something enough and it's like you're just throwing punches
at ocean waves that are never going to stop coming.

(01:24:25):
There's nothing to really be done about it.
So you can't whip yourself into a frenzy about it.
But it still does.
It does annoy me.
It annoys me when I see people like Maya Hawk just popping up and everything.
Although I do love her dad and her mom.
Well, even somebody like Jack Quaid just popping up at 30 years old just being a known actor.

(01:24:46):
That's annoying.
It's like why?
Yeah.
You know?
Well, Jack...
Cool, if you look a lot like Jack Quaid somehow.
Holy shit.
Now that I think about it.
Oh, thanks.
Dude, Nick is Homelander and you're Huey.
Why is Nick Homelander?
I don't know.
Because I'm evil?
I'm definitely not.
I'm not Homelander.

(01:25:07):
Nick is more Homelander.
Do you guys know the guy that plays Homelander?
He's a New Zealander.
It's how he stands like this.
His show is really good.
His other show, Homelander.
His other show, Homelander Show.
No, not Homelander.
What's the fuck?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know what it's called, but he plays some detective down south or something.

(01:25:27):
No, he's pretending to be a detective, but he's like a bank robber and he's hiding out.
Pretty good.
CSI, The Homelander Chronicles.
It's just Homelander and...
Anthony Starr.
Oh, wait.
No.
Anthony Starr.
Are you talking about Anthony Starr or Carl Urban?
Anthony Starr.
Oh, okay.

(01:25:48):
He actually...
Anthony Starr.
Anthony.
Anthony.
He got into a spat in Brazil or something.
Like a fist fight.
Yeah.
Oh, that's right.
Yeah.
That was pretty intense.
I mean, I'm Homelander.
It's funny.
Did you all see his...
He did those mobile ads for that mobile game.

(01:26:08):
Oh, yeah.
For that game and he's doing his American accent.
I'm playing Last War.
It's actually a real game.
Yeah.
There was a huge controversy, so the developers made a real game based off the fake games
and the ads.
That was a ridiculous little thing to see happen.
The fact that they would ask him, like, do we need you to sound like Homelander?

(01:26:31):
Is that okay?
But anyone who knows him personally is like, why are you doing that?
The fact that he agreed to do it, how much did they pay him?
Probably not a lot.
I'm sure they just gave him...
It probably took him a couple hours for one day and he got paid maybe even like 20 grand.
I don't know, man.
I don't know.
No, dude.
Way more.
I don't know.
It doesn't seem like $20,000 worth of work even.

(01:26:53):
Those games make so much money.
Yeah.
He's getting paid a couple million at least.
That sounds high, but I would say it's definitely more than 20 grand.
All right.
Well, I think the...
He says his name attached to some shitty game.
I think we're wrapping up or we're reaching our end.

(01:27:13):
I think we can all agree, right?
Yeah, you want to give us our special announcement for next week?
Special announcement, we are not continuing with a straight up recommendation from VHS
Nick.
Instead, we are going to be joined by a special guest.
We are going to be joined by the YouTuber, Rendon Lovel.
I don't know if I'm saying that right, but we will ask him next episode.

(01:27:35):
We are going to be watching his movie recommendation, which is going to be Creesha from 2015 directed
by Trey Edward Schultz.
Oh, cool.
If you do not want to be spoiled for Creesha by Trey Edward Schultz from 2015, make sure
to watch it for next episode when we have Rendon on the pod.
If you enjoyed this episode and you're listening to on YouTube, please leave a like, give us

(01:27:57):
a comment, let us know what you think.
If you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a review because
that really helps us out.
As always, get Stuckmanized everybody.
Yeah.
This is a particular Stuckman episode because we got the empty man or at least I knew about
the empty man thanks to him.
Thank you, Chris, for representing me with the empty man.

(01:28:18):
Thank you.
Get Stuckmanized.
We're working our way up.
We're going to get Stuckmanized on here eventually.
We'll get him on here.
We'll get him.
Stuckman, we're coming for you.
Goodbye.