From Refineries to Retirement: Peter Harriman’s Recipe for Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy Leadership

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy. I have with us today someone
who I have known, let's say, my entire life, so.
Because that's accurate. This is my cousin, Peter Herriman.
So he has, he is a leadership consultant coach
right now, but he has been working
at the top levels in the oil and gas

(00:22):
industry for his whole career and was
leading things. And we're going to go into a little bit of what he, what
he did there, living around the world. But I wanted to have
him on because he has a lot of wisdom in terms of leadership because he's
been there and in some ways he's lived the American dream because he
retired at 50 and now can do with the work that he wants to

(00:45):
do when he wants to do it, which is, in, you know, in a way,
that's the American dream. Right. Which I'm, I
imagine that's not necessarily what you set out to do.
No, I never imagined that things would go the way they did 30 years
ago. But happy to share what I've learned
along the way and, and for sure, God's blessed me tremendously,

(01:06):
no doubt about it. And I've been given
some great opportunities and I've made the most of them and very
thankful for that. So I'm just an extremely thankful person at this
stage of my life. Yes. Yeah. And a wonderful person,
too. So tell us a little bit about your work history.
So to give listeners kind of a background on what you did all these years.

(01:30):
Sure. You know, that's a great question, and that's one that
many people ask me often. Right. What's your work background? And did
you have a career plan that you
mapped out and that you followed? And to be honest, the
answer is no, I didn't have a plan. When I finished high school, I really
wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I knew I didn't want to

(01:52):
study something for four years and then not use it or
not enjoy it. And I just, I needed some time to
just really explore and understand what the options were.
And so there was a local community college
nearby where I lived, and it offered a program that essentially
trains people and how to become entry

(02:15):
level technicians at a refinery or a power
plant or a gas processing facility. And I
took that course and completed it. And through that
I was able to get a job as an operator, a
technician with Amoco in southwest Wyoming,
in the small town of Evanston, Wyoming, and went to

(02:37):
work there and took what I had learned in school and learned
a lot more there at that gas processing facility.
A really Big one, worked with some great people and
had a chance to really get a perspective on what
engineering was like because I had a chance to work with engineers at
the facility. And it was the first opportunity

(03:00):
that I had to really visualize and understand and picture what an engineer
does. And I thought, you know, I, I think I could do that
and I could see myself doing that and I saw
the potential that it had and I liked that potential.
And so not long after my wife and I got
married, we moved to Denver, Colorado and I

(03:22):
studied chemical engineering at Colorado School of Mines.
It's a great school. And
graduated and joined BP British
Petroleum and
Amoco and BP merged in 1999. And
so essentially I've worked with BP

(03:44):
Amoco since January of
1994. And once I joined
BP as an engineer, I worked various engineering positions,
some in Wyoming. I had a chance to go work in Egypt and
be based in Cairo, but work out in the Western desert

(04:04):
and help manage, improve
and rebuild facilities out in the Western
desert. That was quite an adventure living in Egypt, which
and I really enjoyed. Then I had a chance to move to
Houston and go work offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.

(04:24):
That's what it was called at the time. I know it's changed names here recently.
It's, it's hard for me to get used to the new name because I worked,
I worked in the Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of America for many, many years.
But I worked as an engineer on a platform
called Mad Dog. It's an offshore floating facility.
I helped get it online, I helped get it

(04:44):
commissioned, started up and online. And
it's an amazing feat of engineering and it was a real privilege to be
part of helping get that brand new facility started up.
And that took about three years of my career. And
then I had a chance to move into an engineering team leader position
with a team that was getting ready to start up another really,

(05:08):
really big facility out in the Gulf of Mexico. In fact,
it's the world's largest offshore floating production
facility called Thunder Horse. And it's
truly, truly a feat of engineering and it
was a tremendous privilege to be part of helping get that facility up and
running online. And

(05:30):
unforgettable, it was just an unforgettable experience being part of that.
I worked there for about three years and then my family and I
moved to Baku, Azerbaijan and
I worked there as an engineering manager
for about three of the four years that we lived there. The last
year I moved into an operations manager role

(05:54):
and I had accountability for three really large
offshore fixed facilities in the
Caspian Sea. So BP is in
Azerbaijan supporting the Azerbaijani government and helping develop
the natural resources that are available that are
needing to be discovered and developed and, and processed

(06:18):
there in Azerbaijan. So that was a fantastic experience
to be part of that culture and, and just be part of
that team and that whole work environment there in
Azerbaijan for about four years. Then we moved
back to Houston and I worked as a, the operations manager for
the Thunder Horse Field and the Gulf of Mexico and

(06:40):
had accountability for all the activity that was taking
place there at the time. It was very, very busy. We
had some major projects in progress, a lot of
drilling activity in progress. And so it was
good to get experience in a significantly
high responsibility role. Right. With a lot of accountability for people

(07:03):
and budget and safety and
regulatory compliance as well. So did that
for about three years and then we were very
blessed to be able to move up to Alaska. And I
worked in Anchorage and was an operations manager
for Prudhoe Bay field. And

(07:25):
Alaska, without a doubt is the greatest place in the world
as far as a place to live. There's no better place.
The, the scenery, the mountains, everything,
everything. Nature is just on a whole nother scale there and
so is Prudhoe Bay. It's an amazing feat of engineering that

(07:45):
was first developed in the early 70s and is still going today.
It's the largest oil field in the western hemisphere
in Alaska. Yeah, that's Prudhoe Bay is way,
way up north on the north coast of Alaska right up against
the Arctic Ocean. And it's,
it warms up a little bit in the summer and gets really, really cold

(08:09):
in the winter. And
yeah, I've been up there when it's 80 below zero
and that's insane. Want to stay inside? You just want to
stay. Anyway, after
that we moved back to Houston. I worked as the
operations director for BP for all of BP's upstream

(08:32):
sector for about two years and then transferred to
Angola where I was accountable for all of
BP's operations in Angola.
And in 2022 was part of helping
form a new independent joint venture called
Azule Energy which essentially combined all

(08:54):
of BP's assets and any or
ENI's assets that they had also
developed in Angola. So ENI is an Italian
based, Italy based energy company and they
had done a lot of work to develop resources offshore in
Angola and BP and ENI made a decision to form an independent

(09:15):
joint venture which started up in 2022.
And I worked as the COO for Azule
Energy up until the point I retired in
February of 2024. So
that's a bit of a summary of my career and
a little bit impressive. Well,

(09:38):
many, many different things. There's a lot of variety in
my career, and I've met just amazing people and just
had endless wonderful
experiences working with great teams and great people all over the world.
Yeah. And I. And, you know, of course, since I've known you this whole time,
I remember back when you graduated high school and, you know, our

(09:59):
mother's talking or however I heard about, you know, Pete isn't going
to college, and we didn't know. You know, it's like, wow, he's not going to
college. It's like, what is he doing? Well, he's not sure what he's gonna do.
And. And I feel like that in and of itself is something
that's. There's people out there that need to hear that. Right. That, you know, you
don't have to know from the time you're in, you know, 5

(10:21):
years old or 10 years old, 18 years old, what you're going to
do with your life. It might take a few steps, and
you took a few steps and figured some stuff out, and
then you started in on the career that really, you
know, you've spent the good part of your working years doing.

(10:41):
Yeah. And, you know, there are people who have a
plan and it's very well mapped out, and. And they do
progress their career and their work life along that plan. But I would
say that's a small minority of people. What I think
is the key to success is just to make the most of every
opportunity that you have here today, right now,

(11:04):
and let that guide your interest and let that guide
what you're good at. Right. What your strengths are and how you can continue
to build those strengths and continue to
build those interests that you have. And typically that will lead
to a place and a role and a career that can
be quite rewarding. It'll open up more opportunities as you go

(11:28):
forward. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that. That
reminds me of some life advice. When you don't know what to do, do the
next obvious thing. Did you ever hear that growing up? Yeah.
And it's actually really true. Yeah, it's very
practical. But I. And what. And you said. What
did you say? Take the advantage of the opportunities that are right in front

(11:49):
of you. Because. Is that kind of what you'd said? I felt like that was
really good and I wanted to highlight it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think so
many people, they. They're desperate for a plan
and they want to map out a career that. That extends out
5, 10, 20 years into the future. But,
you know, to me, the best way to proceed is just to

(12:12):
take advantage, make the most of every task, every
role that you have, every opportunity that you encounter.
And, and, you know, I've,
I've. I've often been asked, you know, what does it take to be
successful at work? Or what does it take to
be successful in your career? And I've got a few things that

(12:35):
I've learned about what the answer is to that question. And,
but that's one of them is to make the most of every opportunity
that you have today in your current role, in your current
situation. Yeah, I love that. And you have
spent your whole life at various points and a lot of points,
living abroad. So I just want to have you tell

(12:58):
a little bit about growing up because you are fluent in Spanish.
Yes. Completely fluent in Spanish and English. And
didn't even in your growing up years live the whole time in the United
States. So tell us about that a little bit. Yeah, you're exactly
right. So I was born in Bolivia, and.
I don't think I knew that. I don't think. Oh, wow.

(13:21):
But I was young then, so I probably forgot that little note. No,
I think you were probably a year, year and a half old when I was.
Yeah. So, yeah, my parents were working
in Bolivia as missionaries when I was born,
and when I was six months old, they transferred with their
organization to Argentina. And

(13:44):
so I grew up in Argentina. And it's a
fantastic country. It's a fantastic culture,
beautiful people. In. In just so many ways,
I was very, very blessed to be able to grow up in that environment,
learn Spanish at the same time as English. We

(14:05):
would speak English at home whenever we were together in the house, and then
whenever I was outside running around with my friends, you know, I just would
speak Spanish. And so I didn't ever take any classes or
anything. I just learned Spanish and English at the same time as a
kid. And, and it just came natural. And
thankfully I've. I've not forgotten it, especially the

(14:27):
accent. That's the most important part.
You know, your vocabulary can get a little bit rusty if you don't use Spanish
for years on end. But what
matters most is the, the accent. You know,
that's. That's the most critical thing. I didn't know

(14:48):
that. So now that's new information to me. Oh, yeah, yeah. Accent
matters, especially in Latin America. You know, you could know where someone
is from almost instantly based on
their accent. Yeah. So what would you, what do you think are the Big
culture differences between Argentina and the US from, from
the years when you were there. Yeah, but you

(15:11):
know. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a really good question, I think.
See, that's a really good question. So in
terms of values,
I think people in Argentina do value
family a lot.

(15:33):
So family means a lot. Family is tight knit.
I do think that in Argentina people take more time to
just enjoy time together and
they're maybe in less of a rush to be busy
and get things done. So the culture may not

(15:55):
be as, you know, hyper productive as we see here in the United States,
but people may enjoy their day
to day life maybe a little bit more just because of the fact that they
do take some time to enjoy the smaller things in life or
the conversations that you may have with people that you know every day.
And it's a little bit slower pace. But

(16:19):
it's, it's a really interesting culture. A lot of European influence in
Argentina combined with a lot of the
native, you know, native South
American cultures, it combined in a really interesting
way in Argentina. So yeah, it's a country
of many cultures and you know, a lot of different traditions and foods

(16:42):
and. But one thing that's for sure a top priority in Argentina
is football. And I'm talking soccer,
right? Yeah, you don't, you don't call it soccer
there. It's, it's football that's real football according
to people in Argentina. And it
is, it's on a whole nother level in terms of the

(17:04):
fanaticism. On a whole nother level, it's as if you took the
NBA, the NHL, the Major League Baseball and NFL
and college football here in the U.S. and combined it into
one. When the national team plays, for
example, in the World cup, which is coming up next year,
it is, it is all in intense.

(17:26):
Yeah. Yes. And, and I think I remember you saying some of
that. And, and when I lived in Atlanta, I went with a friend who
is, you know, grew up in Africa. So she,
she, I don't think she grew up watching soccer, but she, we
went anyway and that place was packed where we went. There's a
huge line around the block and it was for Atlanta, it was really, really

(17:49):
cold out that time too. We had double
winter coats on because we're not used to. But waiting in line to get
in to watch the World Cup. So yeah, you know, you saw a little bit
and it was an international crowd there that was so
it is not caught on yet in the United States. I mean, a little bit,
but not like that. Not quite. Not quite. But, yeah,

(18:11):
I had. I had the privilege of being in Argentina when they won the World
cup for the first time in 1978 and then
also in 1986. And
in both cases, the country just,
you know, for an entire week, just basically shut down to
celebrate and. Yeah. Have big

(18:34):
parades and big celebrations and everything just stopped and
everyone was having a big party for an entire week, you know.
Yeah. Yeah. I just can't even, you know, the
productivity, you know, what you're supposed to do in the United States, it just
can't. Can't even imagine us shutting down for a week. We'd be. We wouldn't
even being enjoying it. We would be in a panic.

(18:57):
I mean, some people would be enjoying it, but I think in
general, our culture doesn't allow that. So. So how old were you when you moved
to the US then? 15 years old. Yeah.
High school. Is that kind of the reason? Yeah. So where we lived
there, there was, you know,
an American certified school all the way up through eighth grade, but beyond that,

(19:21):
there was not anything local. And so my parents were
faced with the choice of either sending my brother and I off to boarding school
in another country or staying together as a family and
living in the US and so I'm really thankful that they chose
to stay together, keep us together as a family. And
we moved to North Dakota, which is quite a contrast to Argentina,

(19:46):
but that's where. That's where mom grew up and
where we had. That was a familiar place. Right. Because of
family and times that we had been there visiting.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, most of the times I've seen you in
life has been in North Dakota. It's definitely a sweet. Most
people have never been there, which is what you kind of realize in the United

(20:08):
States. There's probably a very low population of people that have been to North
Dakota. But it's beautiful and, you know, amazing,
amazing memories in a home that's been in the family now. And now you own
the home that's been in the family for how many years is it,
like, 70 years? It's been in the family for 70 years, right? Yeah.
So our grandfather, he purchased the home in

(20:29):
1955. So. Yeah, that's 70 years
now, isn't it? That's crazy. Isn't that crazy?
I don't think there's probably too many people that can say that they've have a
house in the family for 70 years. So that's. I'm very thankful for that,
for sure. Yeah. So do you Think this, this time in
your early life when you were, you know, did the expat, like, experience

(20:51):
and how that was formative, do you think that made it easier to say yes
to these different roles and adapt easier with all the travel you
did? Absolutely, absolutely. You know, one of the,
it was a tremendous gift to me to be able to grow up in another
culture. Right.
And to learn two languages. But one of the ways

(21:14):
that it was most beneficial is
you had to learn how to relate to people that maybe
didn't think the way you do or have the same habits or
same, you know, values as you
do or traditions. And, and so it
causes you to be open minded, right. To how to relate to people.

(21:37):
And the other good thing about growing up overseas is,
you know, for all my life or most of my life growing up, I
was a minority, right. As opposed to a
majority. And it
caused me to get better and more

(21:57):
capable in the space of getting to know people and relating
and understanding and listening. And those are some things that
really were tremendously valuable to me later when I
worked in Egypt or Azerbaijan or Angola.
Yeah. Just knowing that.
Just, just some basic things like listening well and respecting people

(22:21):
and not treating people differently because
of their job title or their family background or their,
you know, their work history or personal history. You know, treating everyone with,
with value and with respect. That goes a long way. That goes a long
way. That does. The last couple guests that I've had on, we've
literally touched on exactly these things you, you've said about how listening

(22:45):
is, is so key and being respectful of people of
different. Who aren't, who aren't like you. Yeah. Different
culture, different belief system, different values,
whatever it is. So you know that we can all be
respectful. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And,
and, and that's one of the things I've enjoyed the most about

(23:07):
working in different places. Just
learning how people tick. Right. And what is it that
motivates them? What, what is it that they value? And
in the work environment, that's really important to know as a leader. Because
that helps you communicate better. It helps you
bring people together in service of a plan. It helps, it

(23:31):
helps you rally people together in service of solving
problems or improving performance.
Relating in a way that's genuine is
extremely important. If you can't connect in a genuine way, it's going
to be very hard to be successful as a leader, especially in an
overseas environment where you're a foreigner. And,

(23:53):
and maybe people,
their first instinct is not to trust you or fully open
up and, and and so if you
can show yourself to be genuinely caring, it can
go a long way, a long way toward making a difference and being an
impactful, successful leader. Yeah, I heard a story about you.

(24:15):
I'm wondering if you remember this and, and can say more about
it. But, and this is, you know, through our mom's talking, I'm sure. Again,
but it was about how you were in
charge of a group and it might have been in the Gulf of Mexico in
that time frame, I'm not even sure. But you were in charge of a group
of, of guys. I think it was mostly guys who were not work out there

(24:36):
and everyone and came into the, to the meeting and
you go around and, and you wanted them to say something that they did
well that week and they would talk about the things that they did wrong.
Like, you know, and, and you say, let's start over again. You have to say
what you did. Right. Do you remember that or is that accurate?
Well, that's something that, that I tried to do

(24:58):
intentionally as a leader. Right.
I think communication really does matter a lot if you want to be a
successful leader. And
one of the things I tried to do as a leader, not just in one
on one conversations, but also in team meetings or in, you know, a big
setting like a town hall meeting is really

(25:21):
celebrate success and recognize not just what people
did, but more importantly how they did it. Okay.
And you know, there's many people who consistently, day
in, day out, carry out their job really well.
And in fact they do it so well that it's, it's silent running.
Right. They, they keep things

(25:45):
running the way it should be. They follow process, they follow procedure and
they do it so well that it doesn't create a crisis. Often we celebrate
people who come in and resolve a crisis. We celebrate
firefighting. But yeah, what I've
tried to do, and it's really impactful is
recognize people who

(26:07):
are consistently doing work
really well, delivering results, but not just describe what they
do, highlight how they do it. Because when
people hear that recognition of how you work, they tend to want
to copy and paste that in, in, in their work style
too. So I don't know if that

(26:30):
links back to the, the exact example that you gave,
but I've tried to do intentionally. Yeah. And you
know, I don't think, I think what you just said is very brilliant. And I'm
not even sure that I've ever heard anyone in the leadership space
talk about that. I'm really not even sure. A
lot of managers or leaders in business in general get kind

(26:52):
of training on how to speak to people is. I just feel like
that based on what I've seen and what, you know, you hear from people.
It's not about being a bully or is it?
No, no, it's not. And in fact,
I have done everything I possibly can to not

(27:12):
leverage my title. You know, I've had roles where I've
had a lot of seniority, a lot of delegation of authority,
and if I had chosen to, I could have leveraged it and
just told people what to do. But I intentionally never, never
did that. Instead, I tried to focus on

(27:35):
leveraging the power of a plan. And,
you know, that may sound a bit strange, but
most situations that I've run into that are
a mess or underperforming or
where a group of people is demotivated or where

(27:55):
business performance is below
expectations, it is almost
every single time the result of there being no clear
plan that people know about and
can relate to. And it's. It's amazing how
many times throughout my career I've come into these situations that

(28:16):
are very poor, underperforming
people are demotivated, morale is in the tank.
And, you know, the main
reason why is because there's just no plan, right?
Human beings like to rally around a clear
plan that focuses on how to win, right? I don't care if

(28:39):
you're in the military or in sports or in business.
Human beings like to win, and they like being part of a team that wins.
And so if a leader can describe what winning
looks like and path the plan to
get there and can describe how each person on the team
or each team in the organization contributes to that

(29:02):
plan, that will get us to a winning place. People come
together, right? It's amazing what can happen
when you do that as a leader. And that's probably one of the most
leveraging things that have. That's helped me
be a successful leader in my career. And then, you know, once you've defined the

(29:23):
plan, you got to communicate it, right? Where are we? Right.
Where are we on this journey? What have we done?
What's still remaining? What, what's what? What are the priorities going forward?
And recognize people for the progress that's been made so far
and keep people informed, keep people up

(29:43):
to date on our status, right? And so I've
made winning. A big. Theme
in how I communicate and how I
try to lead an organization. Winning is a very, very
motivating thing. And I don't care what culture you're in,
everywhere in the world, people like to be part of A team that wins.

(30:06):
And if you can describe that, people rally around it and
morale goes up, performance goes up, and you end up getting the results that you're
looking for. Yeah, I feel like everything you just said sounds so
simple that I. I just want to make sure any. Everyone listening realizes how
revolutionary if that. At least I feel like this is. And I
honestly hope you write a book on it, because I feel like this world needs

(30:28):
it. But from what I heard you say, you. You have. You.
You define the plan. So if there's a low, you're coming into a situation that
maybe. Maybe you don't know if you're going to get respected just because of your
title. But you're the leader. You have to manage people.
And, you know, so you define the plan. You find
a way to make it actionable. I don't know if you use that word.

(30:50):
And everyone on the team knows what their role is and how they
can be a part of this. And then the plan is defined as how
we win and how we win together as a team. And then you
call attention to people who are just doing a good job at
their job day in and day out. Maybe the Steady Eddie kind of person
that doesn't get recognized normally because they're just going about it

(31:12):
quietly and not making a lot of noise or. Look at me. Is that. Is
that a good summary? That's a really good summary, and
you captured it really, really well. One. One other thing that is
really important in that equation is
I think many leaders overlook the fact that their job description
is to make their team

(31:36):
successful, to enable, to equip, to provide
everything that their team needs to be successful. Right. Your team
is not in service of you being successful. Your team is not in service
of serving you. Your job is to serve them.
And obviously, if. If they win, you're gonna win.
Right. If they're successful, you'll be successful. But

(31:59):
you know, that. That's something that I think a lot of people struggle with.
You know, they. They get into a leadership role and. And they
think it just entitles them to. Yeah.
And to use a mandate and. And to be served.
And that's certainly not the case. I mean, if you want to be
successful quickly and

(32:21):
continuously, the way to do that is to look
at every possible thing that your team needs to be successful and do everything
you possibly can to equip them with what they need.
If it's training, if it's tools, if it's
materials, if it's. Whatever it is,
be aware of what they need to Be successful. Right. Yeah. And

(32:44):
visibly provide it. Because if they see you as someone who
serves them in that way, they'll double down on their efforts even
more. Right. Yeah. I think in some
it's called. That might be called servant leadership. I feel like
you've taken it, defined it, and maybe even, you know, taken it to
a higher level. I don't know that a lot of I've not.

(33:07):
I wish I would have seen more leaders who follow that. I've seen some,
certainly have seen some, but I think for the most part,
leaders are. A lot of them are maybe
don't know how to do the skill set required of
managing on top of the skill set they're required to do to get there in
that role. Or they're, they're. I mean, maybe

(33:30):
they're just, you know, feel a little entitled for whatever reason. I want to take
advantage of that, but it doesn't. Or maybe they haven't learned the
listening skills and to just, you know, I think a lot of times maybe they
just haven't been trained in exactly what it takes to. To
lead people so well. What,
What I've done from as far back as I

(33:52):
can remember, I've. I've intentionally observed
leaders that I admire. Yeah.
And I try to copy and paste what I see them
do, how they work, how they communicate.
And so I've. I've been very intentional about observing.
Right. It may be my boss

(34:16):
or it may be someone who's. Who's not. But I really enjoy.
And I've always been intentional about observing how
someone who's in a leadership position is effective and
successful and engaging. But I've also
observed how people are
not engaging and not successful with

(34:39):
their team. Right. And so it's good to observe those things and copy and paste
the good stuff, the best of what they do and apply it to how you
lead, how you work, how you communicate, but also,
you know, observe how people lead poorly,
make a note of that and be sure to not copy that. Right.

(34:59):
And I think, you know, I've learned. That's probably where I've learned most of
what I'm sharing with you now is just by observing people who are
effective and people who are not and
trying to apply those learnings to how. How I work.
Yeah. And observing is a different form of listening, really, don't you think?

(35:19):
Just like you're looking at body language, maybe, and, and
body language is very telling. It's a. It's a
probably maybe even more important than what the words that come out.
Yep. And I would say that
that is just as valuable, if not more than formal training. I think a lot

(35:39):
of people think that for me to grow as a leader, for me to
be effective as a leader, I need, I need more formal training. And, and to
be honest, it's, it's really good to have that right. There's, there
is truly an endless array of
books you can read about how to be an
effective leader or how to be successful at work. There's a lot of great

(36:01):
training. You know, I went to MIT and
I graduated from MIT's Sloan School of Management.
They had a program that was specific to BP
called Operations Academy. And that was very, very, you know, useful to
get that formal training and kind of see the

(36:21):
reasons for how people think, the
way they do, how they tick the way they do and what works and understand
the reasons why. And that was, that was useful. But
to be honest, just observing leaders in action and
copying and pasting the very best of what they did
was, was probably one of the most effective things I've done. Yeah.

(36:44):
And also just to kind of, just for anyone listening, it's like
you started out as someone, you graduated high school and you weren't sure what you
wanted to do and you have MIT training. So let's just bring those two
things together, you know, and from what I'm hearing, you just
took advantage of the opportunities in front of you.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know,

(37:05):
I think many people are obsessed with
being promoted and obsessed with moving up the ladder and their career.
Obsessed. And I think it's good to be motivated. Right. I think, I think it's
good to want more. I think it's, it's good to want to move into
a position of higher responsibility. But
to me, it's an output versus an input. It's an

(37:28):
output of how you work. It's an output of how you solve problems, Right?
Yeah. It's an output of delivering results.
And
it's not the result of
necessarily working harder. I think a lot of people

(37:48):
think, well, I worked really hard, I tried really hard, but at the end
of the day, all that really matters is results. Right. So it's important to be
a results driven person. A results delivering
person. Yeah. And a problem solver. Problem
solver.
Right. That's why we're all paid. I don't care what industry you're in, I don't

(38:11):
care what, what job you have. If you're
getting paid to do something, you are getting paid to solve a
problem or prevent a problem. Yeah. And so if you do that well, if
You're a good problem solver. It'll go well with you. Yeah, that's, that's
awesome. And I was going to say, I didn't mean to infer that just because
you didn't go to college right away that you are highly intelligent. So you're, you're

(38:32):
highly intelligent and you're a hard worker and you know how to listen well
to people and observe body language and talk to people who aren't like, you
know, the same background as you are. And you took advantage of
everything that was in front of you. So I think it's not one, it's kind
of all those things. Yeah.
So another question would. What, how did you do this when you have,

(38:54):
obviously you're working for a very large corporation that, you know, everyone's heard
of. How do you manage what their company
mandates coming to you are, this is what you have to solve
with the people that you're, that you
have leadership over and getting them on board with
that while kind of like still making sure that they're okay, that their

(39:16):
needs are met. How do you balance the two of those? Sure.
Well, fortunately, I've never been
in a situation where I've had to
compromise anyone's safety
in service of any business objective. I've never,
I've never been in a situation where I've had to

(39:39):
unreasonably ask people to
allocate more time to work than
is. Is reasonable to expect.
You know, there are times where work does get intense. Right. There are periods where,
hey, we, we've, we maybe have a big project that's coming
to its culmination and

(40:03):
finishing well really matters and it's going to take a lot of work. And you
know, folks, we're going to need to, for the next
two months, you know, we need everyone on deck and
you know, we, we can't be having people, you know, going off on
extended vacations during this period of time next year where we're going to have
this really intense period of time. So

(40:24):
I guess
is there a balance that needs to be struck in terms of the
amount of time that an employee commits to work
versus time with family? Absolutely right. That
matters a lot. I think the way to properly
balance that is not to guess or go with a gut feel.

(40:48):
I think the best way to manage that is through a
really structured and well documented performance
review process. So what I've seen work
effectively and what I've leveraged effectively is,
hey, at the beginning of the year, January, sit
down with each member of my team that reports to Me

(41:11):
and not only discuss, but document what
is expected. What, what are, what are your business
objectives for this year? And I
would invest myself tremendously in that process.
Right. Because if we can define what is expected
upfront and early, the individual can then

(41:34):
better manage their work life balance to
not only meet their personal priorities, but also deliver on
business priorities. And I like doing that
early, like in January, say, hey, here are the objectives that we have
for the year. Here are your personal business objectives for the year.
And then meet in the middle of the year and say, how's it going? Right.

(41:56):
And perhaps there's a, you know, maybe there's one
or more business objectives that are suffering because of a personal issue that they're
attending to. You know, maybe their spouse is sick
or one of their kids is dealing, you know, with a crisis, or
maybe one of their parents has cancer and they're, they're needing
to allocate more time. Well, we can adjust, right? We can adjust. But

(42:18):
having a starting point that sets expectations around
what the business needs from an individual early in
the year, it gives them the opportunity to
allocate their time and allocate and balance out their own work
life balance and priorities. Rather
than me coming to them with short or

(42:40):
no notice and say, hey, I need this, I need,
I need you to do this and I need you to allocate all your time
over the next two or three weeks to help with this
crisis. Right. And are there crises? Are there important
things that come up unexpected? Yes, but again, that goes back
to having a good plan. If you have a good plan, you tend to have

(43:02):
fewer crises that need,
that require people to prioritize work over home life
balance. So. And also,
I. Sorry to interrupt you, I would say too, like,
crises that interrupt work life balance. You are talking about an industry that
is probably, if there's a crisis, it is a crisis. It is a

(43:23):
massive crises. And also one where like, you know, the work can
be, you know, by its nature, away from family for several months. So I
think, you know, if, if you're in an industry that, you know, in other
industries, it feels like that could transfer. You know, like you could
instead of just changing the direction every other week because
it's, you know, and a lot of people do that. It's

(43:46):
just like, oh, well, everything is changing so quickly. Well, yes, it is. And
also not, not every other week, it's not changing. So
you could still have a clear path forward with better
communication. So I think
the two things that can really help create, create a proactive
versus A reactive work environment is having a plan.

(44:09):
Yeah. That's well defined and that people understand and can
rally around and then translating that plan
into personal objectives. You know, what.
What are your personal objectives for the
year that support this plan? And if people have those two things,
most people are really good at balancing their work life

(44:32):
priorities themselves. Right. Without
intervention or support. Yeah. Yeah. When
it's just clearly defined and they know it's expected and they can
plan ahead for months and maybe a year in advance. Yeah. That's.
That's great. And of course, you. You
are a. You know, you've made sacrifices for your career

(44:55):
and, you know, those are choices that you make and,
and you can weigh one way or another. But I know, you know, I
imagine. And I. And I know just from different conversations with you that
living abroad, you know, away from family, that's in the States,
was had. It was stressful at some points.

(45:17):
What do you. So you lived in several different countries,
and Azerbaijan was actually the first one
time when you lived there, when you moved to Azerbaijan, it was the first time
I'd heard of that country and it took me. So now I can say
it Azerbaijan, but I just love to hear
a little bit about these countries. Like what? I mean, what was it like living

(45:38):
in Azerbaijan, for example? Sure. Well,
Azerbaijan is a. I didn't say it right. Well,
you were really close. I wasn't going to say anything. Wow. And then you said
it right. Okay. So Azerbaijan is this
small country that's just north of Iran, south of
Russia, right on the Caspian Sea. And

(46:00):
it used to be part of the Soviet Union until the Soviet union
collapsed in 1991. And since
then, it's become its own independent nation. And
I had a chance, the opportunity to live there for four years and get to
know the people and the culture really well. It's a really
pretty country, lots of mountains, it's fun to

(46:24):
explore. Most people live in the capital city of Baku,
and it's a city that's
been changing a lot, you know, so when I first
got there in 2008, it felt like
I'd stepped back in time about 50 years. You get off the plane and
it just. It felt like we had gone back in time

(46:47):
50 years. But so much
has changed there. And it was interesting while we lived there to see just
the drastic and dramatic improvements that were taking place in
the city. And a lot of it
had to do with the funding that was coming through from the oil production
coming out of the Caspian Sea facilities.

(47:12):
And it was fun to Just get to know that culture.
Right. And, you know, travel around the country. Yeah. You know,
it's a country that, you know, when I lived there, had a lot of
unseen, unrealized opportunities, like, you know, the
big mountains, and it would snow in the winter. And I think, man, you know,
this is. This would be great for a ski resort. And, well, guess what? Now

(47:34):
they have a ski resort. Oh, that's cool. And, you know, different
areas where you think, man, this would be. This would be a great place to
have a golf course. And, well, now there's golf courses there,
unlike when I lived there. But so
that's cool. We really enjoyed living there, my family and I. My kids were
in, what was it, third and fourth grade when we

(47:55):
moved there, or second and third grade when we moved there. So they made so
many friends, not just with expat families, but
a lot of Azerbaijani families as well.
And so, I mean, I could. I could go on for a long time about
some of the stories of living and working there,
but it's a really neat place. It's. It's definitely worth visiting and

(48:17):
has a very unique culture. That's awesome. What language do they speak there?
I don't even know Azerbaijani. They do. They have their own language.
Okay. So it's similar to Turkish,
but there's. There's probably enough differences to be unique.
What's interesting about Azerbaijan is every empire that

(48:38):
has dominated the world has come through there, through
that real estate at some point in time. You know, so the Romans were there,
the Babylonians were there, the Greeks were there, and
they all left their. They all left their mark.
And. And, you know, the most recent
empire was the Soviet Union, and it definitely left a mark

(49:01):
on the culture, for sure. It was very notable. Very notable.
Oh, no, I don't know if that was. Would be good.
Well, in some ways, it was really good. I mean,
so let me give you an example. So here in the US
One of the things that we have is a very creative kind of

(49:22):
entrepreneurial culture. Right. And it's one
that. Where most of the time, people don't like
to follow a procedure. Right. If you. If you tell someone, hey,
here's a procedure that you need to follow to carry out this
scope of work. People's first
reaction Most. Most people's first reaction here in the US

(49:45):
Is, yeah, I'll. I'll look at it, but
I think I can figure it out, and I'll do it my way. Right. I
have a better way. Right. Yeah.
Whereas in. In Azerbaijan, it's a very Compliant
culture. Right. And I think it had a lot to do with the Soviet Union.
You, you did what you were told. Right. And if you were given a procedure,

(50:07):
you follow the procedure. And in
an industry that's hazardous,
like industry, following procedure matters. Right. And it's, it's
a, it's an expectation you will follow procedure
and it's there for a reason. And so from that
standpoint, that culture has an advantage. Right.

(50:29):
Compared to, say, a more
creative culture like we have in the US So when I worked in Azerbaijan,
it was neat to see the mix of British
kind of a procedural culture, the
Azerbaijani conformant culture and the American.
Hey, we, there's a better way to do this. Let's, let's be creative.

(50:53):
Let's think of how we could do this better. It was a, it was a
fantastic combination that worked really well and I think as a result, that business
has been very, very successful. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, that's a
really interesting answer. I love it.
And so in Europe, if someone was going to go to there, are they.
It's, it is more in Asia or is it. Well, it's

(51:15):
right in the middle. Right. So if you
asked Azerbaijan what they would prefer, they would, they would love to
be part of the European Union, but that has not yet happened. Okay.
But I think they have a much stronger tie with Europe than
any other continent. Yeah. Yeah, that seems to be what I remember. But
I haven't looked at the map lately, you know, and I have not visited. So

(51:38):
did you, did you do some traveling through Europe? Is there, like, if someone was
like, I really, I want to go to that part of the world.
Recommendations for them? Yes, yes.
Some of the highlights for me. Christmas in Germany.
Oh, Christmas time. If you have a chance to go to
Munich or to tour

(52:00):
Austria at Christmas time, it is
a beautiful, unforgettable thing. They have
Christmas markets everywhere
and it's just so well done and you know, so much history, so much tradition
that we know of here in the US Goes back to
those places. Right? Yeah. So that, that was very fun.

(52:23):
Also.
I, I visited
Normandy in the west coast of France. Okay. And
that is a, that is a life changing experience to go
and see firsthand what took place there on D
Day and the,

(52:48):
the heroic, unbelievable bravery that
it required for that day to be successful for the
Allies and how many people sacrificed their lives. And
that's, that's on full display there. And it's very moving. It's very,
and it's something that I would highly recommend

(53:09):
also. Italy has so much to See there, that's very
historic. Of course, Rome, you
know, the Coliseum, the
Leaning Tower of Pisa.
It's just a fun place to go. I think one of the best ways to
see Europe is by train. You know, it's far

(53:30):
more convenient than renting a car. You can get anywhere on a train.
Yeah. And just walk where you need to go.
And it's, it's very, very friendly, very easy. It's
very visitor friendly and just endless things
to see and do. Of course, we've been to England as well, and
there's just so much history there to visit and experience in London, but

(53:52):
also north of London all the way up through the
English countryside and up into Scotland. It's just
beautiful. Most people don't think of England as a. They think of
London and the big city. But my favorite part of
England is the countryside. It's just unbelievably beautiful.
It really is. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Great answer. And

(54:14):
this, this is from Spain right here. That's my,
that's my big expat experience is living for 14
weeks in Spain in college. But that's fun. That's a fun place.
Yeah, it is. But yeah, for sure that. And I think I did.
I think I traveled on so many trains in that 14 weeks, I don't know
that I ever wanted to set foot on a train again. But

(54:38):
it is just such a different. It's like you don't even realize that if you've
only lived in the United States and, and not traveled outside of the
United States, it really is quite a eye
opening, life changing experience to go to a culture like in
Europe where it's just, you're like, whoa, you know, everything is,
you know, a new building is 350 years old, you know, in some places.

(55:00):
Yeah, yeah. It's incredible. You know, you go to places like Egypt
or Italy and you add on another zero to the
age of history there. Oh, you know, I think here in
the U.S. right. The oldest thing you could maybe go see and visit is the
Alamo, maybe in San Antonio. That's maybe one of the oldest buildings
in North America. And I think it's 3 or

(55:23):
400 years old or something like that. I mean, but if you go to Europe
or even Egypt, you tack on another zero
and more and that's crazy. Tell me about
Egypt. I've not been there and that. I can't imagine how interesting
that probably was there. Yeah.
I would highly recommend for anyone watching this podcast or anyone

(55:45):
listening, go visit Egypt. It is a super
friendly place. And it is safe. It has this,
there's this assumption that many people have that it's a high
risk place to visit. It's not, it's not. It's very safe. People are super friendly.
And if you want to see some of the best, nicest beaches in the

(56:07):
world, Egypt has them on the Red
Sea. Beautiful beaches. They have some of the best
scuba diving that you can find in the world
in a place called Sharm el Sheikh. It's on the southern
peninsula of the Sinai Peninsula.
Okay. And then the history is unbelievable.

(56:30):
You can go on a Nile cruise and stop along the way to
different historic sites, see Pharaoh's
tombs, see these different temples that were built and are still
in extremely great condition.
And of course, the pyramids are
basically engulfed by the city of Cairo, which

(56:52):
I think I checked last time, has 23 million people that live
in Cairo. So it's a huge city, very, very crowded.
And things that used to be on the edge of the city or outside the
city are now just part of it. Like the pyramids, right?
Yeah. You see pictures of the pyramids and you think it's out in the middle
of nowhere. Well, it's, it's, it's in

(57:14):
Cairo. The city proper itself.
Yeah. I wouldn't have known that. Yeah. Wow, that's very interesting.
So you do some travel in that region that you thought was
interesting and worth going to?
Oh, yeah. I mean, going down to
Luxor, that's. It's a city, a small city

(57:37):
south of Cairo. You can
easily fly in there. And that's where they have an
unimaginable number of unbelievable historic
temples and tombs you can go visit.
And I would highly recommend Luxor if you want to see history.

(57:59):
The Egyptian Museum in downtown Cairo is also
mind blowing. They have so many different
mummies that are on display and just
unbelievable artifacts from throughout history that are on display that you can
just see up close. Wow.
But I'd also definitely would go to some of the nice beaches

(58:22):
on the Red Sea. Beautiful beaches.
Yeah. God, I love the beach. You know, you gotta love it. Yes.
Some of the, you live, lived in Africa in a couple places, and then you've
lived in Alaska. So Alaska is your
favorite. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Why? Why? And what,
what, why should people go to Alaska? What should they see?

(58:45):
Nature in Alaska is on a
completely different scale.
The mountains are huge, the wildlife's
huge. Alaska makes you feel
very small. And that, that does something
good for me. I think it does something good for most people that

(59:07):
go visit Alaska. You feel very small.
It also is called the last frontier.
And it's true,
Alaska is so massive and relatively
uninhabited that if you want to go truly, truly
out in the middle of nowhere, you can. And

(59:30):
there's a lot of nowhere up there. But it's so big. I
mean, you could take Texas, California and Montana, it would all fit into Alaska. We
with extra room left over. Wow. And I think Alaska only
has what, 600,000 people for its population.
So I, I love the, I love nature there

(59:51):
and just so many different experiences you can enjoy. You know,
going to see the bears, the moose, fishing,
skiing, hiking, rafting.
If you like outdoors, it is the best. Yeah,
yeah. There's a lot of continents, and I think I'm

(01:00:13):
counting at least four continents. You lived on
my. Is it five? Well, let's see. South America,
North America, Africa,
Asia, technically, Azerbaijan's in Asia. So
we have lived and worked in four. I've visited a few
more, but one place I haven't mentioned

(01:00:35):
that I just think is spectacular
is Cape Town, South Africa. Okay. Yes. And
you went there when you lived in Angola. Yes, by. Right. Yeah. Okay,
so Cape Town's on the very, very southern tip of the
continent of Africa. It's in the country of South Africa,

(01:00:55):
and it is one of the most beautiful cities in the
world. Oh, wow. It's so visitor friendly and there's
just so much to do there. And any,
any chance we had to go visit, we would. And
I think an ideal living arrangement would be to live in Alaska
from May to October and then Cape Town from November to

(01:01:17):
April.
And here you are in Ohio. So. Yeah,
very, it's, you know, that's very, very, very American.
Yeah, right there in the Midwest. So. Yeah. And I know you're,
you're having your adventures and in retirement, you're not, you're

(01:01:37):
not bored yet. No, no, no, I'm not bored at
all. And, you know, I'm enjoying the coaching that I do.
But, you know, the main reason I retired, the main
driver, was I wanted to be able to help take care of my
parents, especially my dad. You know, he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's
in February of 2021.

(01:02:01):
And I was in Angola at the time. And,
you know, the plan was to continue working there, you know,
indefinitely or at least through
the end of this year or even further.
But I just, I just couldn't continue to sort of see his
situation unfold. And I knew I couldn't live with myself

(01:02:23):
if I hadn't stopped.
I didn't want to continue to watch all this unfold long distance seven
time zones away from the opposite side of the world. Yeah. And
so I wanted to be more available. I wanted to be more present,
not just for him, but for mom. And she's doing a great job of

(01:02:44):
caring for him, an excellent job of caring
for him. But there's things that just
need to be done that I can help with, and it's really good to
have that flexibility. Right. To be. To be there
and. And I have no regrets about that whatsoever. And
I. I see them often. I also enjoy

(01:03:08):
volunteering with Samaritan's Purse, and that's been one of the most
rewarding things I've done in retirement. Going to
places where there's been a crisis or a natural disaster, like
North Carolina following the flooding or Tampa,
Florida, following the hurricanes that they had their last fall.

(01:03:30):
I was also in northern Los Angeles earlier this year,
helping with the fire response, you know, and helping
homeowners try to recover things,
items that were of personal value and just.
It's just really satisfying to come alongside people who've been
through and just

(01:03:52):
completely unexpected, unbelievable crisis and help
them. Right. And also to, you know, share the gospel with
them and share the love of God and hope with
them in their time of need. And it's just something that I've
really enjoyed and I'm going to continue to do it. Yeah.
Yeah. And you have you carpenter skills because you learned that

(01:04:14):
from your dad, right? Yeah, yeah.
I've put it to good use. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.
And you have just. And you've always been as, you know, as a family member.
I know. Just someone who's always looking out for people and willing to
sacrifice, you know, for what. What is needed. So. And
of course, not just I appreciate you for that. I think everyone does.

(01:04:38):
Well, it's just a good thing to do, and I get a lot of satisfaction
out of it, so it's certainly not a burden to me at all.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been such
a fun time for me to. Even though I. I know you,
but I don't know you in. In respect for all the. The work that you
do. I honestly hope you at least write one book on leadership.

(01:05:00):
I really do. That's. That's a. That's a good challenge, you
know, and I definitely have a lot of stories that can support
the main themes that I would probably capture in a book.
Yeah. Many, many stories. Yeah. And I think you have a way where you could
present it without people feeling called out too
much. It could be, you know, it would be probably well

(01:05:23):
received and, and well respected, I imagine, too, so. Oh, thank
you very much. I appreciate that. Yeah. Was there anything you want
to kind of add or summarize? I didn't ask a question on.
I can't think of anything. It's been really fun to be part of this and
to have this conversation and, and to
share, you know, about different things that I've

(01:05:46):
learned and that hopefully can be useful. Right. To whoever might
listen to this and, and
yeah, so it's been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed it. I appreciate you
inviting me. I really appreciate you too. And I, and I, I really
appreciate being able to share your wisdom with the world
because I was, you know, we were talking before we hit record on this, and

(01:06:07):
I said, is there a way for people to get a hold of you, or
am I now your agent? Yes, you are now my
agent. So, because, you know, the, the leadership coaching you do is a lot
of referrals. You don't have your necessarily your website or
marketing it or anything like that. So unlike almost most of my guests
who are, I'm like, here's all the ways you can find, you know, Peter Harriman

(01:06:28):
on socials and go to his website. And it's, it's. You really
are enjoying the things you're doing. And I, I'm so
grateful that the world can hear some of this leadership wisdom from you.
And I, I, I love the thought of, of
you sharing it formally in whatever way that comes. So,
great. No, that sounds good. And if, if

(01:06:51):
you or anyone would like to get in touch with me, my email
address is
pdharriman@gmail.com.
Perfect. You're gonna get an email. I love it. Okay. Yeah, here we get
so many emails. No, I'm kidding. At least put out the email.
So, thank you, Pete. I'm gonna call you Pete. And I appreciate you. Love
you. And thank you for all you do for the world, for the family.

(01:07:16):
Thank you, Mary. I really appreciate this. It's been great to be part of
this podcast and I appreciate you inviting me. It's been fun.
Thanks. All right, we'll talk soon. Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks for joining us on Healthy, Happy, Wise Wealthy. If you believe in
stories that inspire and uplift, then please like

(01:07:38):
share and subscribe. And, and if you know someone who should be a guest,
go To Healthyhappywise wealthy.com,
no ands, ifs or buts about it. And also
follow us on socials. The same @healthyhappywisewealthy. Until
next time, you all have a wonderful week. And
keep on keeping on Just

(01:08:06):
keeps on turning I can see Searching
for one escape.

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