July 24, 2025 • 40 mins
🎙️ Welcome to Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy (HHWW)! In this profound and challenging episode, host Mary Meyer sits down with Dr. Davina Longshore of the Cummings Foundation for Behavioral Health to dive deep into topics shaping communities today. Recorded on Juneteenth, this conversation is a heartfelt exploration of bias, behavioral health, community trauma, and the steps we can all take to create more healing, unity, and understanding in our world. Dr. Longshore shares her expertise working with first responders, her upcoming projects tackling intimate partner violence and gun culture, and offers candid advice on confronting our own biases—plus real-world tips for building bridges across communities.
🌟 Topics Covered:
- The link between physical and behavioral health
- The impact of emotional trauma on illness
- Maslow’s hierarchy of needs as a framework for well-being
- The Cummings Foundation’s mission and upcoming initiatives
- Addressing intimate partner violence and gun violence in America
- Bias, racism, and the importance of integration and diversity
- How to have uncomfortable conversations and break down social barriers
- Tangible steps to build healthier, less divided communities
Key takeaways:
- Behavioral and physical health are deeply connected: Emotional well-being is a powerful determinant of physical health outcomes.
- Prevention is key: Dr. Longshore’s model focuses on addressing psychological needs before they manifest as mental health disorders.
- Breaking social barriers is everyone’s job: Healing begins when we connect authentically with those outside our own backgrounds.
- Bias awareness is essential: We all carry biases—recognizing them is the first step to change.
- Diversity fuels growth and compassion: Integrating with people of different backgrounds enriches our own lives and communities.
Some questions I ask:
- How does physical health play into behavioral health?
- What does your preventative model for well-being look like in practice?
- What’s next for the Cummings Foundation for Behavioral Health?
- How are you tackling issues like intimate partner violence and gun culture?
- How can we move beyond our own biases and start meaningful conversations?
- What is the significance of Juneteenth to you?
- How do we move toward true merit-based opportunities?
- What action steps can our listeners take today to build bridges in their own communities?
Learn more about our guest:
- Website: cummingscfbh.org
- Email: info@cummingscfbh.org
Resources List:
- Cummings Foundation for Behavioral Health
- Donate or inquire about bringing programs to your area via the website or email above
- Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
- Reference to breathwork and yoga modalities for emotional regulation
YouTube Chapters: 00:00 Welcome & Episode Introduction
01:19 Understanding Behavioral Health
04:22 Emotional Trauma and Physical Illness
07:10 Dr. Longshore’s Preventative Model
10:02 Cummings Foundation’s Mission & Projects
14:27 Addressing Bias, Racism & Integration
24:56 Breaking Down Communication Barriers
34:05 Moving Towards Community Healing
38:22 Final Words and Call to Action
Don't miss out on this heartfelt and inspiring conversation about breaking down bias, healing trauma, and taking action for a healthier, happier, and more united world. Subscribe for more episodes and be part of the movement for change!
🌟 Connect on Instagram and Facebook @HealthyHappyWiseWealthy
Want to nominate a guest or suggest a topic? Visit healthyhappywisewealthy.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome
to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy, the podcast where we take people who
have lived through some fire and now want to take that light and help
guide others. I am your host, Mary Meyer. I'm so glad you're here.
I want you to step away from today feeling like you
(00:20):
know some things about how to heal, about how to move
forward, about how to create the life that you want to live.
Let's get started. Welcome Back to part two with Dr. Davena
Longshore with the Cummings Foundation for Behavioral Health. I'm excited
for this episode. We're going to talk about biases and how we all
have them. Doesn't matter your, your gender, your age, your
(00:43):
religion, your political affiliation, your skin color. And we are going to
talk about how we can all come together to make our world a better place.
We actually recorded this on Juneteenth even though you all are listening to it
for the first time in July. These conversations are
that can be good for everyone. Everyone is invited to this table.
Welcome and let's get started. I want to just put a
(01:06):
short call to action because if you have, if you'd
like to see programs in your area, in your
precinct, with your police officers, you can email
you about that. And also if you want to donate
towards this because this is a thing that brings a lot of
healing and health and safety to the community and to
(01:29):
the country, you can also donate also,
which is Cummings C U M M I N G
and S S on the end of it and then c
f b h.org
CummingsCFBH..org so I just want to throw
that in there in case someone's listening. That's the way to do it. So
(01:51):
what, tell me how, how does physical health play, play into
behavioral health? Because behavioral health is maybe a word people
aren't as familiar with, but my understanding is kind of a mix
between mental and physical.
So yes, the, the mental, the mind and
the body are connected to each other. So your
(02:14):
emotions that you experience
throughout the day, I'll just use this as an example. They cause you to produce
certain hormones. Your brain produces those hormones. We
know from a basic biology class that the brain is the
powerhouse of the body, right? It is making sure that every
organ system is running. So if the brain
(02:36):
is malfunctioning and not producing the chemical
signals that it needs to produce for your other organ systems
to run properly, then it will cause health issues.
So things like depression are linked to heart
attack, stroke, cancer, metabolic
(02:56):
diseases, diabetes. And people
don't realize it because we've been Taught
go get a physical exam or. And that's
even. Not even to be proactive. Our society is a little.
We act after the fact that, you know, like, let me go get an exam
(03:16):
because my stomach hurts. Instead of being preventative,
but taking care of your mind, your
emotions and the impact that they have on the
brain is also preventative because you can work out
all the time. You can be a bodybuilder, you can eat
vegan or vegetarian, but if you're
(03:39):
hurting emotionally, you will still
get physically ill. Yeah. Yes.
And I've. I've had some guests on the, the show that their, their episodes
are coming out in the next couple weeks. And as an example, both of them
talked about breath work. Right. And. And one of them
yoga, too. So. And those are things I think you've talked about in terms
(04:02):
of like, helping people regulate. Yes. Incorporating those
also. So kind of the whole, the whole gamut. I know
this. The. The stuff you're coming up with, you're not. It's
not, it's not myopic. It's just, it's very.
Feels like you're covering all the bases.
(04:22):
Yes. So what I can say about my model is
it's based on some of our basic
psychological tenants of what humans need to
survive and to be happy. And so in those
models, things like Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
(04:42):
they explain that humans
need things emotionally and physically to
be happy, to thrive, to do their best in life.
So you need to feel like you belong. You need to have food,
you need to have shelter, you need to have security, you need
to have interactions with others. Humans are social
(05:05):
beings. We need each other.
Which also is not a huge thing that's popular right
now. Right. You know, everything's about, I can do
it myself, Right? Not really. Not really.
We're not designed that way. We're social beings, so we need each other.
So the model I created is built off of
(05:28):
all the things that psychology has found out years
ago that humans need to thrive in life. And
then what I did was I looked at those and looked at their connections
between mental disorder, and they're all
connected to depression, anxiety,
personality disorders, schizophrenia.
(05:50):
They're all connected. So I looked at the connections and I
designed a program that's preventative. It
offers interventions that feed those areas
of you that are in need so you never get to the place
of depression or anxiety or a
psychotic disorder. And yes,
(06:12):
believe me, genetics plays a role, but
we know that human behavior is so complex, and it's
a complex interplay between our genetics and our
physical environment. And so what I do is what I can
do. I can't determine who you were born from, but
we can look at your environment, the behaviors,
(06:35):
the things that you're getting and that you're not getting,
and we can play with those things and maneuver those things
so that you don't set off that gene. And
that's linked to depression. Yeah,
that's so powerful. So
(06:57):
what's next for the Cummings foundation for Behavioral Health
and for you, Dr. Longshore, what is kind of like the next
steps of what you're looking to do with the work you're
doing? So with this particular project,
the next steps is we're looking at expanding to several different
agencies. So that is the hope for
(07:19):
next year. What we do on the back end is we do test
this model. We test the program to make sure it's
doing what it's supposed to be doing to see if we do need to tweak
it in some way. So we'll be expanding
to other agencies next year. Another thing we'll be doing
because our desire at the Cummings
(07:41):
foundation is to use behavioral health
to positively change the community at large.
So we're not just focused on police officers, even though
that's our first main project. We want
to help the community. And I know, and people in
my field know from history, when it comes to social change,
(08:04):
psychologists have always been at the cusp of it. Their research
has always been at the cusp of social change. And
so my desire is to put psychologists back in
the rightful place and let the experts
of behavior help lead the
community when it comes to social issues and inform
(08:27):
politicians and policymakers of how
what they're doing is impacting society and the community and what they
can do to make it better. So one of our next
projects is going to be dealing with intimate partner violence,
which is a huge concern right now in the US the numbers
have escalated. You have many women dying at the hands of men
(08:50):
and researchers. The few researchers who are
researching it, they have a call of action. They need more
researchers to help them figure out why this is happening and
what the solution is. And so the Cummings foundation wants to
participate in being a part of the solution. Yeah, that
is a very tough.
(09:11):
That's a very tough one. And I feel like most of us have had if,
you know, as if we haven't experienced it
ourselves, we know someone close to us who's experienced that.
Yeah. And I think that's how the world is right now. And it's very.
It's. It's just gotta stop, like, it's just gotta stop rolling downhill to
(09:31):
the generations to come. I feel that very strongly. Let's, like, what can
we do? We have to do something else to stop this
from being so common, so commonplace.
And it. I think it's been commonplace for a long time in some ways, but,
man, it doesn't. It was. It's got. It's got to stop. There's got to
(09:52):
be ways. So that's. That's exciting to me that you're.
You're working on that also. Yeah, I'm
very excited to work on that. So. Yeah,
and we. I'm sure we could have an entire conversation around that
topic, which we will do another time. Yes.
And there is the. The other one. We're actually working on that. This year,
(10:15):
we had a board member ask us a question.
Why hasn't there been a solution to the gun violence in America?
And so my team and I, we did a major review and we found that
a solution's been given. That's not the problem. The problem
is how Americans view guns.
(10:36):
And so we're doing what we call, like a meta
analysis or a scoping review where we pull
all this data in from all these researchers who've already
answered this question, and then we look at that in American
culture, and we're going to be tying the two together to
show hopefully, that the real issue is
(10:59):
how Americans see weapons and how Americans see
guns and how it's so entrenched in American
culture. And then we're going to be looking at what are the solutions to
that? What are the solutions to moving American
culture from the ideals that cause them
to not want to support laws
(11:21):
that will change who has access
to guns so that we can reduce the gun violence in
America? Yeah, these are just
like, you're just diving in at the very, very deepest end of the pool.
Right? It's like, let's see how many issues
(11:42):
that are super heated and have been going on for a
long time and we can't seem to resolve. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna do
what I can to. To do something about this. And the way you
come at it is so you come at it, I think, with
so much intelligence, research experience
and compassion and a level of understanding, I think,
(12:04):
for everyone involved in the. In the situation.
And because, you know, you were counseling the.
The predators, you know, so, you know, it's like,
those are the ones I want to have no understanding or no understanding and no
compassion for, but, you know, that it's. People are.
We can be a crazy bunch. People
(12:27):
are hurting. And
when I worked in the prison system, that's what
I saw. I mean, it was
sad how many of the inmates were the
victim of sexual violence, the victim of physical
violence at very young ages. They were orphans, they
(12:50):
were poor and homeless.
And so they became a victim of their circumstance.
And at the root of it,
I look at it as this. I was one decision in my life
away from being them because we
(13:10):
had some of the same childhood experiences.
The difference was the one decision that I made that was different
from their decision. And so we're alike.
We're not as different as we think that we are. And
if society at large would begin to see that,
that we are more alike than we are different, it would
(13:33):
heal a lot of things in our community. I think it probably
would. And I also do think this is some of the things that I
have noticed in general about people is sometimes they
refuse to feel.
Not. Not on purpose, but like they want to detach because they're afraid
it could happen to them. So it's easier to go, oh,
(13:56):
you over there. I'm gonna. Gonna. I'm gonna put my hand
you over there. I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you a little
goodwill. But I don't want to
emotionally engage at too much of a level, because it scares
me too much that what you're experiencing is a thing that I
could experience in life. And
(14:18):
that's. That's another. Maybe that's a schema. I don't know what that is, but
it's just. It seems like there is kind of that reaction where
that scares me. And so I'm just going to say, so
sorry. You'll get through.
It's a coping mechanism. Yeah, it's a coping
mechanism. It's a mechanism that people use
(14:41):
to deal with the horrors of the world. And
it's. It's not always beneficial because it
can cause you to not show
empathy for others. I mean, some of the.
One of the most impactful
situations for me was when I resigned
(15:03):
and I was walking through yards, and I had
people. Inmates that people call killers
collapsing to the ground in the middle of the yard. Not in private,
in front of other inmates, crying, I
can't believe you're leaving us. You're the only person in my life
who ever believed in me. Oh.
(15:29):
They are. We're all humans. And
I think that's one of the reasons, too, why I was able to have the
impact that I had, because I understood that I didn't treat
them like I was better than them. I was different from them.
We're humans. And the same needs that I have, you have too.
(15:50):
It doesn't matter if we look alike. I've had
white supremacists in the prison begin to only
want me to treat them. And it was because I
showed them we are alike. And we're more alike
than we are different. And I know you feel like that
idea and that belief was your protection in the world.
(16:12):
I understand it. But you don't have to hate
me because I'm here to help you. I'm not going to harm you.
Yeah. Such a, Such a position of power and
compassion on your part to just, you know, just be.
I don't know. I'm crying through this whole thing.
I am. You can see it. I'm like, you're making me cry,
(16:36):
you know, and I, I have over the years and, you know, I'm a white
person group in all white community. There weren't. There
wasn't. I mean, there was racism, but you didn't know who it was because there
weren't any black people or really people of any other race. So just a
little, little town in the 80s in Iowa. And so you learn
over time as our, as our communities get more integrated. And it was something.
(16:57):
When I moved to the South, I was very much like, I didn't
know. And I think I didn't, you know, you know, I, I only know was
taught the history I was taught. I didn't even know to go look for other
history. I didn't. So, you know, and I still don't know if
I know what to go look for. Sometimes I just. You read something and you're
like, that's insane. Like, I, you know, I had no idea.
(17:18):
But I know when I moved to the south and this is, you know, in
my mid-20s, I'm like, we gotta like, do something
to be integrated. You know, it's, you know, it's
way more black and white in the south where it's, you know,
it's more. Not necessarily 50, 50, but ish. But, you know, we're
more integrated there.
(17:40):
And it took, I,
it took a long time, I feel like, to find a
situation where I felt like I was accepted. You
know, I think there's just. There was such a stereotypes on
maybe both ends, but like, I didn't know the questions to ask. I didn't know
the things to say either, you know, so. And this was actually a
(18:02):
church and for a while. And so I think we're all showing up and just
being polite and not knowing what to do.
And then, you know, I think that what really helped me develop,
really starting to develop. And I'm saying all this for the
sake of, of people who are white, people who really don't. Maybe
they have a black friend. They know that there's this
(18:24):
racism thing that's going on in America. Sometimes it really, you know,
you know, pops out and grabs us like it did in 2020. And
we're just, you know, we don't know what to do. We.
And we haven't even thought about it. We haven't thought about what we haven't thought
about. We haven't known to ask the questions we know to ask,
to think to ask. You don't even know what you know because that history
(18:47):
is. Is far enough removed and are from some of us,
not from all of us. But I think in the north, we're not as. Or
Midwest, where I grew up, we're not as hands in the. We're not as aware,
but we have, we have a responsibility also. So
if, if we don't know if, if we're not integrated with people
(19:07):
of other cultures, so we just have the bias that they're
not going to vote the way we want them to, or they're, they're going to
take our resources or they're going to do whatever it is. Those are, those are
biases. And your life is better
when you learn outside your culture, when you
integrate with people who are not. Don't look like you.
(19:31):
And I think it's all. And it's not just black, white, all the,
all the different cultures that can be here. You will learn things
and it will make your world better. It will make you
more understanding, human. But it's not just that, like, you're gonna,
you're gonna find your people. You're going to realize that
there's people who don't look like you, who didn't grow up where you grew
(19:53):
up, who don't think like you, who don't
believe like you or vote like you, or live where you are the
same age in you, or, you know, if you're a female, they might be male
or vice versa. Like, you're gonna find people that
support you, that love you, that have your back
outside of where you think they're going to be. Right? So
(20:16):
if you, if, if you will take the energy and the time
and it might really take. If it's, if you're as a white person
in a largely white Community, or if you're in a community
that just kind of is. Is. Is together, but
separate, which. And I moved from Atlanta, and you've lived in Atlanta, and
sometimes Atlanta is like that. You know, we're together, but we're separate.
(20:37):
You know, usually you see groups of people, and they're not necessarily racially
mixed. So we have to. But
it's awkward. And so that's one thing. I think it's awkward at
first. It is. Especially if
you just don't say how you feel.
And, I mean, I know, you know, living on the west coast, people are a
(20:59):
little more passive and chill, and they don't. They're not as deep.
But, you know, I'm from the Southeast, and
me, I just say, let's have the conversation. Like, let's just get the
awkwardness over. Over. Let's say how we feel. Let's talk
about it, and then we can work through it. And
I think sometimes, too, people are afraid
(21:22):
to do that. They're afraid to just talk through it. There was
a white male sergeant that I had to work with with
one of the other stations, and it was awkward for me
at first. I mean, he was like, in the black community. We
would look at him and be like, classic. Go hunt a black person. You
know, like, he drove a big truck. He
(21:45):
loved big guns, you know, and he. And
so one of the first things I said to him was that, like, you hunt
black people. And it was a joke. He, like, looked,
and he just burst into tears and laughing.
And that's where the conversation started. And it was hilarious
because people were kind of afraid to get in our conversation because we were just
(22:07):
going back and forth with black and white stereotypes. He's like, why
do black people like Cheesecake Factory? I'm
like, white people don't season their food, you know,
and all the stereotypes he and I
both learned about each other, we were throwing them
out at each other, just getting it
(22:31):
over with and then talking about, well, where do you think the
stereotype came from? Do you agree with it? We just had the
uncomfortable conversation. Yeah. I do
think also sometimes people are just bad at knowing how to get out there and
meet people. I think there's also that in society. So
it's not just like, you just, you know. And we got it. We got to
(22:52):
address that, too, maybe, because we can't get to know each other if we're just
bad at. At knowing how to talk to people. And I just think more people
are. Feel awkward about that than not.
So, you know, sometimes you just Go compliment
their hair. Give. Give them a compliment, you know? You
know, just say. Ask them a question about, you know, you got
(23:14):
your shirt on. Say, that's interesting. Where does that. Where does that
come from? What's. What's that all about? You know, I don't know. Sports
team. You gotta, like. And if you're. If you're next to each other,
ask them questions about, you know, their work and where
they grew up and just. Just start asking some. Just throw out some
questions. Just.
(23:36):
Sometimes the simplest way to disarm people is
just to look them in the eyes and smile.
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And. And that can start a
conversation. I mean, I blame social media
for people's lack of communication skills
these days. And then it was just compounded by
(23:57):
Covid when people were separated from each other.
So people are definitely lacking in
communication skills. And I've had people come to me
just to be coached on that. Like, how do I
talk to people? I'm not dating. I don't know how to introduce
myself to people. I don't know how to start a conversation.
(24:20):
I've had people come to me just for that. Like, can you help
me and teach me how to do that? Yeah. I
almost feel like that's. That makes me go. I feel like that's like a. Multiple
episodes I could do, but it does. It does feel like that. Right. Like,
that's, I think, way before COVID people. I mean, I grew up with people that
were bad. I. Most people
(24:43):
that I know have not been great at that.
I don't know. And I think it was something that is a skill I learned.
I don't think I was great at it either for a long time. So
anyway, that's. That's ideas. Ideas to.
You know, if you just don't talk to anyone, fine. Go start by
talking to someone who looks like you, and then after that, go talk to someone
(25:06):
who doesn't look like you.
Yes. I've been since I went into the psychology
field. I thank my program because they made us take
classes that brought out
our biases and they made us work through them. And
so I've had a habit of always.
(25:28):
Because I know my biases, I intentionally
go interact with the people that I have that
bias against so that I can deconstruct it.
Yeah, that's. And that's. I think that's the example that we should all
follow. Just, you know, whether we have a class on it or not.
Is. There is. You're going to. You don't even know sometimes you have a belief
(25:51):
system until it's threatened or challenged.
Yes.
So,
today is Juneteenth, when we are recording this, but,
you know, we've talked some on race and, you know,
even though people will be not listening to it on this day, is
there anything you want to say about the day and the significance of it?
(26:19):
No one is free until everyone is free.
And no one can do
their best until everyone
has resources and everyone has the same rights and
everyone is being treated the same way.
And while we
(26:41):
feel like we've come so far,
we still have so much further to go.
There's so much inequity
within a capitalistic system. System.
And so I'm thankful today that
(27:02):
I finally met people in
the right places who did
not see my race, did not see my gender,
did not see my sexuality. They saw
my skill. Yeah. And my integrity
and my heart. And they put me in a position
(27:26):
where now I can help other people.
And I'm grateful for it. I'm very
grateful for it. Where I hurt
is knowing that many people won't get the opportunity
that I got because they're Hispanic
(27:46):
or black or. Or Asian or female or
transgender or gay or lesbian.
They won't get. Or disabled. They won't
get the same opportunity because people look at them
for those things, those outside things, instead of
looking inside at who they really are. Do you have any
(28:09):
thoughts on merit based? I know we talked to merit based before. And how.
How do we get there where it's clear, just clearly
the. The best person for the job or the best person for the,
you know, gets it without. Without seeing the
stuff that might cause the bias?
(28:32):
I don't. The only way you're
going to fix that is to fix the people. That. That's the
only way you're going to fix that is to fix the people. And it's sad
because there's recent studies that show things, for example,
that a white male felon is more likely to get a
job than a black male who's never been arrested before.
(28:55):
It's. People
lead with their biases. And the danger of it is people
don't think they have biases. And it's
because there's such a negative stereotype. And
I feel like we throw the word
racist around a little bit too much these days,
(29:18):
and people are going to automatically throw up their guard because that
word has such a negative connotation. And so I've had
conversations with people that I knew had negative biases against
black people. But when I use the word bias.
They're more receptive than if I just said, hey, you're racist. Do you know that?
You know? And so I
(29:42):
A lack of education is always
room for destruction. It's always the route to destruction.
And so when you don't know yourself, when you don't know
your beliefs truly, when you don't know who you are, when you don't know how
you see the world, there's no way you can
correct for your biases at all.
(30:05):
And the only way to fix that is for people to
understand that they have biases and you have to be
intentional about correcting. For me, I grew
up in South Carolina, about 40 minutes away from
the. The slave dogs. My father
helped integrate schools in South Carolina in 81. It
(30:27):
was 81 when they were integrating schools. And when they
integrated them, the wealthier whites
created a private school in my town so they didn't have to go to school
with us. And it left us with the poor whites. And so they
zoned the middle to upper class blacks to go to
school with the poor whites. I had to pass schools to go to school
(30:50):
because they were zoning to make sure poor
whites only at least went to school with middle class, upper class black.
So I grew up going to school being
called the N word. You know, white boys telling me they can't date
me because I'm an N. I grew up with that
stuff. I was interviewing and people thought
(31:12):
my resume belonged to a male because it's science and math on
it. And I would walk in an interview and they would ask me to
multiply because they didn't believe a black woman knew math,
mathematics. So I grew up very
entrenched in you cannot trust white people.
But I became aware of my bias. And so when
(31:34):
I met a white person, I intentionally said, you need
to give them a chance. They're all not bad.
You have to understand your biases. Yeah.
And vice versa, you know, white and black. And
this conversation to me is such a good example
of the way forward as
(31:56):
humanity is to start
talking to each other, to lay down our guard a little
bit. And I think in politics it's
been so much where it's like, all wrong, all wrong.
Right. And that's just how it. I feel like the last
20 years has been more and more like, let's get. Keep each other mad at
(32:18):
each other. Yes. And that keeps us from having
conversations where so many things could probably
be resolved really simply
if we were talking to each other and listening to each other
and not just coming at each other with. You're so
stupid. That's why. So dumb. You're so, you know, you're, you know, whatever.
(32:41):
All the, the, the words that come out then where we're, you know,
calling each other names and, or we're just not going to listen because
you're not doing what I want you to do, you
know, And I want you to do this because this is the way to do
it. And even if you're right and it
is the way to do it, is this person harming you?
(33:03):
Right. Are you going to be harmed by listening? Right. Even if you know
that, you know they're wrong and you know, that's a whole nother thing.
We have our strong beliefs. Is it really harming you
to be kind to someone who doesn't, who
isn't what you think they should be, who isn't doing what you think they should
do? And you know, let's be honest
(33:26):
with ourselves. I do things that I don't think I should be
doing. I don't agree with my own self. So, you know, you know what I'm
saying? Like, we're all like that too. So we all do things we don't think
we should really be doing. So give everyone a little grace.
And just because one person, and
there's. Every demographic has, every demographic, no matter how you look
(33:47):
at it, has people that are going to be, can be harmful
people. And, and I think every demographic has people that are
good, that are good to people, even if they're irritated about it
or what you know, or, or have a bias or they're still going to, in
their nature, do, do good. And this kind
of goes back to what you were saying about
(34:10):
different communities and how polarized they can be.
So this black and white concrete, very concrete
thinking that you see right or left. Right. No, in between.
It comes from a lack of experiencing other cultures and people who
are different from you because that does something to the brain.
When you're able to see differences,
(34:33):
see differences in culture, understand that not everybody
operates the same way that you do, you then
can understand that two opposing things can
both be the truth. An officer
can. Yeah, an officer can be racist but
also have PTSD and a mental health
(34:55):
challenge. Two, two opposing views can
both be true. And I think that's what
we're seeing a lot of now, that people don't understand that,
that we can believe two different things and they both be
accurate. Right, that's, that's true.
And so much in. Right in politics because I, I have, I
(35:18):
listen to both I, in terms of, like, people talking of who are very strong
beliefs on both sides, I, I tend to go, yeah, well, what you're
talking about. I think everyone agrees with what you're talking about. I think everyone agrees
with because, like, you're talking, you're talking about maybe
I want to be able to get a good job that I'm not going to
be excluded from because of how I look. And everyone will go, well, yeah, you
(35:39):
should. And the other side is like, this is about national security and we can't
be threatened by, you know, terrorism, all that
stuff. And I'd be like, I think everyone agrees with that too. Like, you know,
so, like, you're, it's just, you're looking at different things. So.
And that's where the, the talking to each other, it's like, well, yeah,
all these things are commonly
(36:01):
agreed on. Right, right. So. And I
know I, I thought once when I went through a contentious divorce, I know you've
had one. It's like if, if, if that can get
settled legally and that kind of
environment where you're like, there's no way to come to an agreement on this of
any sort because we're so far apart, then what
(36:23):
couldn't be agreed on? Right.
Right. Act like all these issues in the country can't come to some kind of
conclusion. Sure they can. Sure they can. What it takes is
saying it has to come to an agreement and then reasonable people at the
table, you know. Right. And, and not the thought that
in order for me to survive, I have to put another group down, I have
(36:46):
to step on someone else in order for me to get my needs
met. Everyone can get their needs
met. There is a solution where we all can get our
needs met and we don't have to fight each other or harm each other
to get that done. And I think that's what we need. To be looking for.
And that's the only solution in my mind. I don't think there is any other
(37:08):
solution. Yes, the only solution towards peace
is one where everyone can, can have, you know, the,
what they, what they need to just have a peaceful life. Right,
right. You know, to have a peaceful, prosperous life without, you
know, the amount of work that you put in should
be the reward you get back, you know? Yes. If you don't want to go
(37:31):
get a doctorate and three master's degrees. I mean, I don't. So,
you know, like, there's going to be a different.
Maybe I do. Maybe I'll change my mind, but you know what I'm saying? Like,
obviously, then who. Who gets to have the seat at the table? The one
who's done the work. You know, the one who's done. The people who have done
the work in the different areas should be the ones who have the seat at
(37:52):
the table and the voice, so. Right. Agree.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today.
So if you guys want to learn more, I'm gonna say it one more time
for the Cummings foundation, it's C u m m I n g
s and then c
fbh.org CummingsCFBH.org and then you can just email admin@cummingscfbh.org
(38:13):
and Dr. Longshore,
any last words you'd like to share with everybody?
Go talk to someone today who doesn't look like
you, talk like you, doesn't go to the same church as you,
doesn't believe the same thing as you. That's where you can
start to become a different and happier person.
(38:38):
I am in that and saying that. See, people have been saying that forever,
and now I have a doctor who said it.
All right, Dr. Longshore, let's see your. Let's see your shirt. My ancestors
would be proud. Yes, they would. Yes, they would.
Screenshot that.
(39:00):
Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you so much as a human and
I'm just so thankful to have met you and have gotten to work with
you. So thank you for coming on today. Thank you. I
am thankful to have met you, my newest
white friend.
(39:20):
That's awesome. All right, and that concludes
our two part episode with Dr. Davena Longshore with the Cummings foundation for
behavioral health and all of her incredible insights
into our first responders. Stay tuned for more from
Healthy, Happy, Wise Wealthy with new episodes coming every Thursday.
Thanks for joining us on Healthy Happy, Wise Wealthy. If you believe in
(39:44):
stories that inspire and uplift, then please like
share and subscribe. And if you know someone who should be a guest,
go to healthy happy wise wealthy.com
no ands, ifs or buts about it. And also follow
us on social. It's the same Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy until
next time. You all have a wonderful week and
(40:06):
keep on keeping on feeling
like you're stuck in a hurricane because
everything around you just keeps on turning
I can see searching for run escape.
Welcome
to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy, the podcast where we take people who
have lived through some fire and now want to take that light and help
guide others. I am your host, Mary Meyer. I'm so glad you're here.
I want you to step away from today feeling like you
(00:20):
know some things about how to heal, about how to move
forward, about how to create the life that you want to live.
Let's get started. Welcome Back to part two with Dr. Davena
Longshore with the Cummings Foundation for Behavioral Health. I'm excited
for this episode. We're going to talk about biases and how we all
have them. Doesn't matter your, your gender, your age, your
(00:43):
religion, your political affiliation, your skin color. And we are going to
talk about how we can all come together to make our world a better place.
We actually recorded this on Juneteenth even though you all are listening to it
for the first time in July. These conversations are
that can be good for everyone. Everyone is invited to this table.
Welcome and let's get started. I want to just put a
(01:06):
short call to action because if you have, if you'd
like to see programs in your area, in your
precinct, with your police officers, you can email
you about that. And also if you want to donate
towards this because this is a thing that brings a lot of
healing and health and safety to the community and to
(01:29):
the country, you can also donate also,
which is Cummings C U M M I N G
and S S on the end of it and then c
f b h.org
CummingsCFBH..org so I just want to throw
that in there in case someone's listening. That's the way to do it. So
(01:51):
what, tell me how, how does physical health play, play into
behavioral health? Because behavioral health is maybe a word people
aren't as familiar with, but my understanding is kind of a mix
between mental and physical.
So yes, the, the mental, the mind and
the body are connected to each other. So your
(02:14):
emotions that you experience
throughout the day, I'll just use this as an example. They cause you to produce
certain hormones. Your brain produces those hormones. We
know from a basic biology class that the brain is the
powerhouse of the body, right? It is making sure that every
organ system is running. So if the brain
(02:36):
is malfunctioning and not producing the chemical
signals that it needs to produce for your other organ systems
to run properly, then it will cause health issues.
So things like depression are linked to heart
attack, stroke, cancer, metabolic
(02:56):
diseases, diabetes. And people
don't realize it because we've been Taught
go get a physical exam or. And that's
even. Not even to be proactive. Our society is a little.
We act after the fact that, you know, like, let me go get an exam
(03:16):
because my stomach hurts. Instead of being preventative,
but taking care of your mind, your
emotions and the impact that they have on the
brain is also preventative because you can work out
all the time. You can be a bodybuilder, you can eat
vegan or vegetarian, but if you're
(03:39):
hurting emotionally, you will still
get physically ill. Yeah. Yes.
And I've. I've had some guests on the, the show that their, their episodes
are coming out in the next couple weeks. And as an example, both of them
talked about breath work. Right. And. And one of them
yoga, too. So. And those are things I think you've talked about in terms
(04:02):
of like, helping people regulate. Yes. Incorporating those
also. So kind of the whole, the whole gamut. I know
this. The. The stuff you're coming up with, you're not. It's
not, it's not myopic. It's just, it's very.
Feels like you're covering all the bases.
(04:22):
Yes. So what I can say about my model is
it's based on some of our basic
psychological tenants of what humans need to
survive and to be happy. And so in those
models, things like Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
(04:42):
they explain that humans
need things emotionally and physically to
be happy, to thrive, to do their best in life.
So you need to feel like you belong. You need to have food,
you need to have shelter, you need to have security, you need
to have interactions with others. Humans are social
(05:05):
beings. We need each other.
Which also is not a huge thing that's popular right
now. Right. You know, everything's about, I can do
it myself, Right? Not really. Not really.
We're not designed that way. We're social beings, so we need each other.
So the model I created is built off of
(05:28):
all the things that psychology has found out years
ago that humans need to thrive in life. And
then what I did was I looked at those and looked at their connections
between mental disorder, and they're all
connected to depression, anxiety,
personality disorders, schizophrenia.
(05:50):
They're all connected. So I looked at the connections and I
designed a program that's preventative. It
offers interventions that feed those areas
of you that are in need so you never get to the place
of depression or anxiety or a
psychotic disorder. And yes,
(06:12):
believe me, genetics plays a role, but
we know that human behavior is so complex, and it's
a complex interplay between our genetics and our
physical environment. And so what I do is what I can
do. I can't determine who you were born from, but
we can look at your environment, the behaviors,
(06:35):
the things that you're getting and that you're not getting,
and we can play with those things and maneuver those things
so that you don't set off that gene. And
that's linked to depression. Yeah,
that's so powerful. So
(06:57):
what's next for the Cummings foundation for Behavioral Health
and for you, Dr. Longshore, what is kind of like the next
steps of what you're looking to do with the work you're
doing? So with this particular project,
the next steps is we're looking at expanding to several different
agencies. So that is the hope for
(07:19):
next year. What we do on the back end is we do test
this model. We test the program to make sure it's
doing what it's supposed to be doing to see if we do need to tweak
it in some way. So we'll be expanding
to other agencies next year. Another thing we'll be doing
because our desire at the Cummings
(07:41):
foundation is to use behavioral health
to positively change the community at large.
So we're not just focused on police officers, even though
that's our first main project. We want
to help the community. And I know, and people in
my field know from history, when it comes to social change,
(08:04):
psychologists have always been at the cusp of it. Their research
has always been at the cusp of social change. And
so my desire is to put psychologists back in
the rightful place and let the experts
of behavior help lead the
community when it comes to social issues and inform
(08:27):
politicians and policymakers of how
what they're doing is impacting society and the community and what they
can do to make it better. So one of our next
projects is going to be dealing with intimate partner violence,
which is a huge concern right now in the US the numbers
have escalated. You have many women dying at the hands of men
(08:50):
and researchers. The few researchers who are
researching it, they have a call of action. They need more
researchers to help them figure out why this is happening and
what the solution is. And so the Cummings foundation wants to
participate in being a part of the solution. Yeah, that
is a very tough.
(09:11):
That's a very tough one. And I feel like most of us have had if,
you know, as if we haven't experienced it
ourselves, we know someone close to us who's experienced that.
Yeah. And I think that's how the world is right now. And it's very.
It's. It's just gotta stop, like, it's just gotta stop rolling downhill to
(09:31):
the generations to come. I feel that very strongly. Let's, like, what can
we do? We have to do something else to stop this
from being so common, so commonplace.
And it. I think it's been commonplace for a long time in some ways, but,
man, it doesn't. It was. It's got. It's got to stop. There's got to
(09:52):
be ways. So that's. That's exciting to me that you're.
You're working on that also. Yeah, I'm
very excited to work on that. So. Yeah,
and we. I'm sure we could have an entire conversation around that
topic, which we will do another time. Yes.
And there is the. The other one. We're actually working on that. This year,
(10:15):
we had a board member ask us a question.
Why hasn't there been a solution to the gun violence in America?
And so my team and I, we did a major review and we found that
a solution's been given. That's not the problem. The problem
is how Americans view guns.
(10:36):
And so we're doing what we call, like a meta
analysis or a scoping review where we pull
all this data in from all these researchers who've already
answered this question, and then we look at that in American
culture, and we're going to be tying the two together to
show hopefully, that the real issue is
(10:59):
how Americans see weapons and how Americans see
guns and how it's so entrenched in American
culture. And then we're going to be looking at what are the solutions to
that? What are the solutions to moving American
culture from the ideals that cause them
to not want to support laws
(11:21):
that will change who has access
to guns so that we can reduce the gun violence in
America? Yeah, these are just
like, you're just diving in at the very, very deepest end of the pool.
Right? It's like, let's see how many issues
(11:42):
that are super heated and have been going on for a
long time and we can't seem to resolve. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna do
what I can to. To do something about this. And the way you
come at it is so you come at it, I think, with
so much intelligence, research experience
and compassion and a level of understanding, I think,
(12:04):
for everyone involved in the. In the situation.
And because, you know, you were counseling the.
The predators, you know, so, you know, it's like,
those are the ones I want to have no understanding or no understanding and no
compassion for, but, you know, that it's. People are.
We can be a crazy bunch. People
(12:27):
are hurting. And
when I worked in the prison system, that's what
I saw. I mean, it was
sad how many of the inmates were the
victim of sexual violence, the victim of physical
violence at very young ages. They were orphans, they
(12:50):
were poor and homeless.
And so they became a victim of their circumstance.
And at the root of it,
I look at it as this. I was one decision in my life
away from being them because we
(13:10):
had some of the same childhood experiences.
The difference was the one decision that I made that was different
from their decision. And so we're alike.
We're not as different as we think that we are. And
if society at large would begin to see that,
that we are more alike than we are different, it would
(13:33):
heal a lot of things in our community. I think it probably
would. And I also do think this is some of the things that I
have noticed in general about people is sometimes they
refuse to feel.
Not. Not on purpose, but like they want to detach because they're afraid
it could happen to them. So it's easier to go, oh,
(13:56):
you over there. I'm gonna. Gonna. I'm gonna put my hand
you over there. I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you a little
goodwill. But I don't want to
emotionally engage at too much of a level, because it scares
me too much that what you're experiencing is a thing that I
could experience in life. And
(14:18):
that's. That's another. Maybe that's a schema. I don't know what that is, but
it's just. It seems like there is kind of that reaction where
that scares me. And so I'm just going to say, so
sorry. You'll get through.
It's a coping mechanism. Yeah, it's a coping
mechanism. It's a mechanism that people use
(14:41):
to deal with the horrors of the world. And
it's. It's not always beneficial because it
can cause you to not show
empathy for others. I mean, some of the.
One of the most impactful
situations for me was when I resigned
(15:03):
and I was walking through yards, and I had
people. Inmates that people call killers
collapsing to the ground in the middle of the yard. Not in private,
in front of other inmates, crying, I
can't believe you're leaving us. You're the only person in my life
who ever believed in me. Oh.
(15:29):
They are. We're all humans. And
I think that's one of the reasons, too, why I was able to have the
impact that I had, because I understood that I didn't treat
them like I was better than them. I was different from them.
We're humans. And the same needs that I have, you have too.
(15:50):
It doesn't matter if we look alike. I've had
white supremacists in the prison begin to only
want me to treat them. And it was because I
showed them we are alike. And we're more alike
than we are different. And I know you feel like that
idea and that belief was your protection in the world.
(16:12):
I understand it. But you don't have to hate
me because I'm here to help you. I'm not going to harm you.
Yeah. Such a, Such a position of power and
compassion on your part to just, you know, just be.
I don't know. I'm crying through this whole thing.
I am. You can see it. I'm like, you're making me cry,
(16:36):
you know, and I, I have over the years and, you know, I'm a white
person group in all white community. There weren't. There
wasn't. I mean, there was racism, but you didn't know who it was because there
weren't any black people or really people of any other race. So just a
little, little town in the 80s in Iowa. And so you learn
over time as our, as our communities get more integrated. And it was something.
(16:57):
When I moved to the South, I was very much like, I didn't
know. And I think I didn't, you know, you know, I, I only know was
taught the history I was taught. I didn't even know to go look for other
history. I didn't. So, you know, and I still don't know if
I know what to go look for. Sometimes I just. You read something and you're
like, that's insane. Like, I, you know, I had no idea.
(17:18):
But I know when I moved to the south and this is, you know, in
my mid-20s, I'm like, we gotta like, do something
to be integrated. You know, it's, you know, it's
way more black and white in the south where it's, you know,
it's more. Not necessarily 50, 50, but ish. But, you know, we're
more integrated there.
(17:40):
And it took, I,
it took a long time, I feel like, to find a
situation where I felt like I was accepted. You
know, I think there's just. There was such a stereotypes on
maybe both ends, but like, I didn't know the questions to ask. I didn't know
the things to say either, you know, so. And this was actually a
(18:02):
church and for a while. And so I think we're all showing up and just
being polite and not knowing what to do.
And then, you know, I think that what really helped me develop,
really starting to develop. And I'm saying all this for the
sake of, of people who are white, people who really don't. Maybe
they have a black friend. They know that there's this
(18:24):
racism thing that's going on in America. Sometimes it really, you know,
you know, pops out and grabs us like it did in 2020. And
we're just, you know, we don't know what to do. We.
And we haven't even thought about it. We haven't thought about what we haven't thought
about. We haven't known to ask the questions we know to ask,
to think to ask. You don't even know what you know because that history
(18:47):
is. Is far enough removed and are from some of us,
not from all of us. But I think in the north, we're not as. Or
Midwest, where I grew up, we're not as hands in the. We're not as aware,
but we have, we have a responsibility also. So
if, if we don't know if, if we're not integrated with people
(19:07):
of other cultures, so we just have the bias that they're
not going to vote the way we want them to, or they're, they're going to
take our resources or they're going to do whatever it is. Those are, those are
biases. And your life is better
when you learn outside your culture, when you
integrate with people who are not. Don't look like you.
(19:31):
And I think it's all. And it's not just black, white, all the,
all the different cultures that can be here. You will learn things
and it will make your world better. It will make you
more understanding, human. But it's not just that, like, you're gonna,
you're gonna find your people. You're going to realize that
there's people who don't look like you, who didn't grow up where you grew
(19:53):
up, who don't think like you, who don't
believe like you or vote like you, or live where you are the
same age in you, or, you know, if you're a female, they might be male
or vice versa. Like, you're gonna find people that
support you, that love you, that have your back
outside of where you think they're going to be. Right? So
(20:16):
if you, if, if you will take the energy and the time
and it might really take. If it's, if you're as a white person
in a largely white Community, or if you're in a community
that just kind of is. Is. Is together, but
separate, which. And I moved from Atlanta, and you've lived in Atlanta, and
sometimes Atlanta is like that. You know, we're together, but we're separate.
(20:37):
You know, usually you see groups of people, and they're not necessarily racially
mixed. So we have to. But
it's awkward. And so that's one thing. I think it's awkward at
first. It is. Especially if
you just don't say how you feel.
And, I mean, I know, you know, living on the west coast, people are a
(20:59):
little more passive and chill, and they don't. They're not as deep.
But, you know, I'm from the Southeast, and
me, I just say, let's have the conversation. Like, let's just get the
awkwardness over. Over. Let's say how we feel. Let's talk
about it, and then we can work through it. And
I think sometimes, too, people are afraid
(21:22):
to do that. They're afraid to just talk through it. There was
a white male sergeant that I had to work with with
one of the other stations, and it was awkward for me
at first. I mean, he was like, in the black community. We
would look at him and be like, classic. Go hunt a black person. You
know, like, he drove a big truck. He
(21:45):
loved big guns, you know, and he. And
so one of the first things I said to him was that, like, you hunt
black people. And it was a joke. He, like, looked,
and he just burst into tears and laughing.
And that's where the conversation started. And it was hilarious
because people were kind of afraid to get in our conversation because we were just
(22:07):
going back and forth with black and white stereotypes. He's like, why
do black people like Cheesecake Factory? I'm
like, white people don't season their food, you know,
and all the stereotypes he and I
both learned about each other, we were throwing them
out at each other, just getting it
(22:31):
over with and then talking about, well, where do you think the
stereotype came from? Do you agree with it? We just had the
uncomfortable conversation. Yeah. I do
think also sometimes people are just bad at knowing how to get out there and
meet people. I think there's also that in society. So
it's not just like, you just, you know. And we got it. We got to
(22:52):
address that, too, maybe, because we can't get to know each other if we're just
bad at. At knowing how to talk to people. And I just think more people
are. Feel awkward about that than not.
So, you know, sometimes you just Go compliment
their hair. Give. Give them a compliment, you know? You
know, just say. Ask them a question about, you know, you got
(23:14):
your shirt on. Say, that's interesting. Where does that. Where does that
come from? What's. What's that all about? You know, I don't know. Sports
team. You gotta, like. And if you're. If you're next to each other,
ask them questions about, you know, their work and where
they grew up and just. Just start asking some. Just throw out some
questions. Just.
(23:36):
Sometimes the simplest way to disarm people is
just to look them in the eyes and smile.
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And. And that can start a
conversation. I mean, I blame social media
for people's lack of communication skills
these days. And then it was just compounded by
(23:57):
Covid when people were separated from each other.
So people are definitely lacking in
communication skills. And I've had people come to me
just to be coached on that. Like, how do I
talk to people? I'm not dating. I don't know how to introduce
myself to people. I don't know how to start a conversation.
(24:20):
I've had people come to me just for that. Like, can you help
me and teach me how to do that? Yeah. I
almost feel like that's. That makes me go. I feel like that's like a. Multiple
episodes I could do, but it does. It does feel like that. Right. Like,
that's, I think, way before COVID people. I mean, I grew up with people that
were bad. I. Most people
(24:43):
that I know have not been great at that.
I don't know. And I think it was something that is a skill I learned.
I don't think I was great at it either for a long time. So
anyway, that's. That's ideas. Ideas to.
You know, if you just don't talk to anyone, fine. Go start by
talking to someone who looks like you, and then after that, go talk to someone
(25:06):
who doesn't look like you.
Yes. I've been since I went into the psychology
field. I thank my program because they made us take
classes that brought out
our biases and they made us work through them. And
so I've had a habit of always.
(25:28):
Because I know my biases, I intentionally
go interact with the people that I have that
bias against so that I can deconstruct it.
Yeah, that's. And that's. I think that's the example that we should all
follow. Just, you know, whether we have a class on it or not.
Is. There is. You're going to. You don't even know sometimes you have a belief
(25:51):
system until it's threatened or challenged.
Yes.
So,
today is Juneteenth, when we are recording this, but,
you know, we've talked some on race and, you know,
even though people will be not listening to it on this day, is
there anything you want to say about the day and the significance of it?
(26:19):
No one is free until everyone is free.
And no one can do
their best until everyone
has resources and everyone has the same rights and
everyone is being treated the same way.
And while we
(26:41):
feel like we've come so far,
we still have so much further to go.
There's so much inequity
within a capitalistic system. System.
And so I'm thankful today that
(27:02):
I finally met people in
the right places who did
not see my race, did not see my gender,
did not see my sexuality. They saw
my skill. Yeah. And my integrity
and my heart. And they put me in a position
(27:26):
where now I can help other people.
And I'm grateful for it. I'm very
grateful for it. Where I hurt
is knowing that many people won't get the opportunity
that I got because they're Hispanic
(27:46):
or black or. Or Asian or female or
transgender or gay or lesbian.
They won't get. Or disabled. They won't
get the same opportunity because people look at them
for those things, those outside things, instead of
looking inside at who they really are. Do you have any
(28:09):
thoughts on merit based? I know we talked to merit based before. And how.
How do we get there where it's clear, just clearly
the. The best person for the job or the best person for the,
you know, gets it without. Without seeing the
stuff that might cause the bias?
(28:32):
I don't. The only way you're
going to fix that is to fix the people. That. That's the
only way you're going to fix that is to fix the people. And it's sad
because there's recent studies that show things, for example,
that a white male felon is more likely to get a
job than a black male who's never been arrested before.
(28:55):
It's. People
lead with their biases. And the danger of it is people
don't think they have biases. And it's
because there's such a negative stereotype. And
I feel like we throw the word
racist around a little bit too much these days,
(29:18):
and people are going to automatically throw up their guard because that
word has such a negative connotation. And so I've had
conversations with people that I knew had negative biases against
black people. But when I use the word bias.
They're more receptive than if I just said, hey, you're racist. Do you know that?
You know? And so I
(29:42):
A lack of education is always
room for destruction. It's always the route to destruction.
And so when you don't know yourself, when you don't know
your beliefs truly, when you don't know who you are, when you don't know how
you see the world, there's no way you can
correct for your biases at all.
(30:05):
And the only way to fix that is for people to
understand that they have biases and you have to be
intentional about correcting. For me, I grew
up in South Carolina, about 40 minutes away from
the. The slave dogs. My father
helped integrate schools in South Carolina in 81. It
(30:27):
was 81 when they were integrating schools. And when they
integrated them, the wealthier whites
created a private school in my town so they didn't have to go to school
with us. And it left us with the poor whites. And so they
zoned the middle to upper class blacks to go to
school with the poor whites. I had to pass schools to go to school
(30:50):
because they were zoning to make sure poor
whites only at least went to school with middle class, upper class black.
So I grew up going to school being
called the N word. You know, white boys telling me they can't date
me because I'm an N. I grew up with that
stuff. I was interviewing and people thought
(31:12):
my resume belonged to a male because it's science and math on
it. And I would walk in an interview and they would ask me to
multiply because they didn't believe a black woman knew math,
mathematics. So I grew up very
entrenched in you cannot trust white people.
But I became aware of my bias. And so when
(31:34):
I met a white person, I intentionally said, you need
to give them a chance. They're all not bad.
You have to understand your biases. Yeah.
And vice versa, you know, white and black. And
this conversation to me is such a good example
of the way forward as
(31:56):
humanity is to start
talking to each other, to lay down our guard a little
bit. And I think in politics it's
been so much where it's like, all wrong, all wrong.
Right. And that's just how it. I feel like the last
20 years has been more and more like, let's get. Keep each other mad at
(32:18):
each other. Yes. And that keeps us from having
conversations where so many things could probably
be resolved really simply
if we were talking to each other and listening to each other
and not just coming at each other with. You're so
stupid. That's why. So dumb. You're so, you know, you're, you know, whatever.
(32:41):
All the, the, the words that come out then where we're, you know,
calling each other names and, or we're just not going to listen because
you're not doing what I want you to do, you
know, And I want you to do this because this is the way to do
it. And even if you're right and it
is the way to do it, is this person harming you?
(33:03):
Right. Are you going to be harmed by listening? Right. Even if you know
that, you know they're wrong and you know, that's a whole nother thing.
We have our strong beliefs. Is it really harming you
to be kind to someone who doesn't, who
isn't what you think they should be, who isn't doing what you think they should
do? And you know, let's be honest
(33:26):
with ourselves. I do things that I don't think I should be
doing. I don't agree with my own self. So, you know, you know what I'm
saying? Like, we're all like that too. So we all do things we don't think
we should really be doing. So give everyone a little grace.
And just because one person, and
there's. Every demographic has, every demographic, no matter how you look
(33:47):
at it, has people that are going to be, can be harmful
people. And, and I think every demographic has people that are
good, that are good to people, even if they're irritated about it
or what you know, or, or have a bias or they're still going to, in
their nature, do, do good. And this kind
of goes back to what you were saying about
(34:10):
different communities and how polarized they can be.
So this black and white concrete, very concrete
thinking that you see right or left. Right. No, in between.
It comes from a lack of experiencing other cultures and people who
are different from you because that does something to the brain.
When you're able to see differences,
(34:33):
see differences in culture, understand that not everybody
operates the same way that you do, you then
can understand that two opposing things can
both be the truth. An officer
can. Yeah, an officer can be racist but
also have PTSD and a mental health
(34:55):
challenge. Two, two opposing views can
both be true. And I think that's what
we're seeing a lot of now, that people don't understand that,
that we can believe two different things and they both be
accurate. Right, that's, that's true.
And so much in. Right in politics because I, I have, I
(35:18):
listen to both I, in terms of, like, people talking of who are very strong
beliefs on both sides, I, I tend to go, yeah, well, what you're
talking about. I think everyone agrees with what you're talking about. I think everyone agrees
with because, like, you're talking, you're talking about maybe
I want to be able to get a good job that I'm not going to
be excluded from because of how I look. And everyone will go, well, yeah, you
(35:39):
should. And the other side is like, this is about national security and we can't
be threatened by, you know, terrorism, all that
stuff. And I'd be like, I think everyone agrees with that too. Like, you know,
so, like, you're, it's just, you're looking at different things. So.
And that's where the, the talking to each other, it's like, well, yeah,
all these things are commonly
(36:01):
agreed on. Right, right. So. And I
know I, I thought once when I went through a contentious divorce, I know you've
had one. It's like if, if, if that can get
settled legally and that kind of
environment where you're like, there's no way to come to an agreement on this of
any sort because we're so far apart, then what
(36:23):
couldn't be agreed on? Right.
Right. Act like all these issues in the country can't come to some kind of
conclusion. Sure they can. Sure they can. What it takes is
saying it has to come to an agreement and then reasonable people at the
table, you know. Right. And, and not the thought that
in order for me to survive, I have to put another group down, I have
(36:46):
to step on someone else in order for me to get my needs
met. Everyone can get their needs
met. There is a solution where we all can get our
needs met and we don't have to fight each other or harm each other
to get that done. And I think that's what we need. To be looking for.
And that's the only solution in my mind. I don't think there is any other
(37:08):
solution. Yes, the only solution towards peace
is one where everyone can, can have, you know, the,
what they, what they need to just have a peaceful life. Right,
right. You know, to have a peaceful, prosperous life without, you
know, the amount of work that you put in should
be the reward you get back, you know? Yes. If you don't want to go
(37:31):
get a doctorate and three master's degrees. I mean, I don't. So,
you know, like, there's going to be a different.
Maybe I do. Maybe I'll change my mind, but you know what I'm saying? Like,
obviously, then who. Who gets to have the seat at the table? The one
who's done the work. You know, the one who's done. The people who have done
the work in the different areas should be the ones who have the seat at
(37:52):
the table and the voice, so. Right. Agree.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time today.
So if you guys want to learn more, I'm gonna say it one more time
for the Cummings foundation, it's C u m m I n g
s and then c
fbh.org CummingsCFBH.org and then you can just email admin@cummingscfbh.org
(38:13):
and Dr. Longshore,
any last words you'd like to share with everybody?
Go talk to someone today who doesn't look like
you, talk like you, doesn't go to the same church as you,
doesn't believe the same thing as you. That's where you can
start to become a different and happier person.
(38:38):
I am in that and saying that. See, people have been saying that forever,
and now I have a doctor who said it.
All right, Dr. Longshore, let's see your. Let's see your shirt. My ancestors
would be proud. Yes, they would. Yes, they would.
Screenshot that.
(39:00):
Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you so much as a human and
I'm just so thankful to have met you and have gotten to work with
you. So thank you for coming on today. Thank you. I
am thankful to have met you, my newest
white friend.
(39:20):
That's awesome. All right, and that concludes
our two part episode with Dr. Davena Longshore with the Cummings foundation for
behavioral health and all of her incredible insights
into our first responders. Stay tuned for more from
Healthy, Happy, Wise Wealthy with new episodes coming every Thursday.
Thanks for joining us on Healthy Happy, Wise Wealthy. If you believe in
(39:44):
stories that inspire and uplift, then please like
share and subscribe. And if you know someone who should be a guest,
go to healthy happy wise wealthy.com
no ands, ifs or buts about it. And also follow
us on social. It's the same Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy until
next time. You all have a wonderful week and
(40:06):
keep on keeping on feeling
like you're stuck in a hurricane because
everything around you just keeps on turning
I can see searching for run escape.
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