December 4, 2025 • 28 mins
The days around Christmas aren’t supposed to feel like this. We open the door on Arkansas, 1987, and walk through the controlled world of Ronald Gene Simmons—a decorated veteran, a father of seven, and the architect of a family compound where isolation and fear did the heavy lifting long before the violence began. We talk candidly about how coercive control works in plain sight, from cutting off phones and neighbors to turning everyday chores into instruments of obedience.
From the first shots on December 22 to the calculated strangulations of the youngest children, the timeline reveals intent, planning, and a chilling calm that carried through the holiday weekend. Then the violence spills into town: a law office, an oil company, a minimart, a freight terminal. Some victims were connected to old grudges; others were simply in the path of a man who believed he was settling scores. Along the way, we connect the dots between the DHS investigation, a teacher’s report, the daughter forced into secrecy, and a wife saving money to leave. None of it happened in a vacuum.
We also push past shock to talk prevention. Isolation is a tactic, not a personality quirk. When someone says they feel like a prisoner, believe them. Notice the red flags: sudden relocations, surveillance over money, removing communication, and grievance spirals centered on weapons and perceived slights. The courts found Simmons sane; the record shows he was deliberate. That matters for how we read similar situations now—at home, at work, in our communities.
If you care about true crime beyond headlines and want a clearer lens on coercive control, family annihilation, and workplace violence, press play. Then share this episode with someone who needs the language to name what they’re seeing. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: which warning sign stood out to you most?
Source Material:
Daily News, December 13, 2008, The father from hell-New York Daily News, https://www.nydailynews.com/2008/12/13/the-father-from-hell/
Roberts, Adam, December 22, 2022, Ronald Gene Simmons, Arkansas' worst mass murderer, killed 16 people, https://www.4029tv.com/article/ronald-gene-simmons-murders-arkansas/42308596
Holt, Tony, November 6, 2023, The devil of Pope County: America's Worst family massacre, https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/nov/06/trailer-i-the-devil-of-pope-county-americas-worst-family-massacre/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Come with us to Arkansas 1987 as we tell you
(00:06):
about a sixteen-person killingspree.
This is Hold My Sweet Tea.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Jingle jingle.
That sounds kind of dirty, Iguess.
Right.
Look, we're still rolling in thethe holiday spirit.
unknown (01:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Not spirits.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
But um probably should be.
At least then we'd have anexcuse for how silly we are.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
It's good to sometimes have a rant session
before we record because it getsour our juices flowing.
I was about to say.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Makes my face red, my blood's bumping.
Yep.
Yeah.
Ready to talk about somebodyelse's misfortune.
There we go.
There we go.
We had to get ours out first,and then we're like, let's go.
Roll right into someone else'sbad time.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
We're in the first week of creepsness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Talking about creeps.
All the creeps.
Yeah.
You you're I am I am intriguedabout your creep because you
told me a little tiny snippet,and I'm like, oh, what?
Yeah.
You have so many questions.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
So many.
Yeah.
I have so many questions.
I'm the one doing this.
But yeah, so we're gonna uh talkabout a guy who killed 16
people.
It was several days that huggedChristmas.
Okay, that hugged Christmas.
Yes.
Several days that huggedChristmas.
So it starts a little bit beforeand runs after.
(02:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
So he spent his whole holiday vacation slaying
away.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think he dressed up in aSanta Claus suit or Krampus.
Right.
But he's scary enough on hisown, apparently.
So we're gonna chit-chat alittle about Mr.
Ronald Gene Simmons.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Not Gene Simmons from KISS.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
No.
We'll just call him Simmons.
Simmons.
We're not going to talk aboutthe good Gene Simmons.
Right.
Talk about the bad one.
So he's born in 1940 in Chicago.
(03:08):
His dad would die of a strokelike three years later.
And his mom would get remarriedto a man named William Griffin,
who was part of the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers.
So in 1957, when Simmons decideshe's dropping out of school, he
(03:32):
joins the Navy.
unknown (03:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Probably at the behest of his stepdad.
Probably.
Probably like, if you're notgoing to finish school, you need
to join the military.
He gets stationed in Washington,and this is where he meets his
wife.
And we're just going to call herBecky.
Her name was Rebecca, but we'regoing to call her Becky.
(03:57):
Does she have good hair?
Becky with the good hair?
She's Becky with the okay hair.
unknown (04:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
They get married in 1960 in New Mexico.
Well, they're just well,military.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
He leaves the Navy a few yearsafter his marriage and joins the
Air Force.
Okay.
Like, what are we doing?
I don't want to be on a boat.
I'd rather be in the air.
There we go.
I guess.
Which is funny because, youknow, they use naval ships.
(04:27):
Yep.
They land Air Force airplanes.
It's fun times.
But over the next 18 years,Simmons and Becky have seven
kids.
Seven kids.
It's a lot of kids.
Yeah, it's a lot of kids.
I'm like, yikes.
So Simmons actually retires in1979.
(04:52):
And he had several awards thathe had won while during his
service.
He had a bronze star medal, theRepublic of Vietnam gallantry
cross, and the Air Force ribbonfor excellent markmanship.
So he was well decorated.
But they weren't that big, happyfamily you like to talk about
(05:17):
all the time.
Right.
The big family.
Right.
There wasn't any signs that theywere normal in the least.
There were some allegations thatcame about in uh 1981 that
Simmons had been sexuallyabusing his 17-year-old
(05:39):
daughter.
There was even a bigger rumorthat he fathered a child with
this daughter.
That's disgusting.
Which, by the way, wasn't arumor.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
It was true.
I hate hearing about stuff likethat.
It's just why.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Right.
So the Department of HumanServices in New Mexico starts
investigating this.
And when that all happens, hedecides we move in.
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Yeah, let's get out of here so I don't get arrested.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
Mm-hmm.
So they end up getting a bigpiece of land.
And they call it MockingbirdHill in Dover, Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Oh.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
It was very isolated, desolate, like really
rough land.
Isolated is probably not evenreally a great word because they
didn't have any phone.
There's no plumbing.
And the whole place issurrounded by this like
(06:56):
hodgepodgey fence.
Ah, so a compound.
Basically.
Okay.
The final thing his children dobefore Christmas is dig a four
foot deep ditch in the yardbecause he said they needed it
(07:22):
for an outhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
I'm thinking it's not for an outhouse.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
It's not for an outhouse.
It is not at all for anouthouse.
Okay.
So for whatever reason, Simmonsdecides right before Christmas
that I think I'm going to killmy whole family.
unknown (07:47):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
There are speculations that say that they
think that the reason he didthis was because obviously his
daughter with the kid that hefathered.
Not to mention that he, I thinkhe was starting to hear things
like that his wife was gonnadivorce him and leave him.
(08:09):
And I'm gonna say something thatI think is the grossest thing
ever because my grandma used todo it and I hated it.
Wives would call their husbandsdad, like refer to him as dad.
I guess because he's dad totheir kids.
Right.
I don't understand it.
It's not like daddy now.
Right.
(08:29):
Right.
No, this is not what that was.
Right.
So there's reports that say hiswife had actually said, I don't
want to live the rest of my lifewith dad.
I'm a prisoner here, and thekids are too.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Well, I guess it's because in that situation, it's
like he becomes her dad becausehe's like telling her what to
do, and she has no freedoms todo anything.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
So this was like reportedly something she wrote
to her son.
Yeah.
Um, because the older kids hadmoved away from him during all
this.
So there were four young onesthat were still living with him.
Those are the ones that dug theditch.
Oh gosh.
She further said, Every time Ithink of freedom, I want out as
(09:17):
soon as possible.
But obviously she was stuck.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Now, Sheila is the daughter that he's accused of
having a baby with.
Sheila does get married.
So Sheila has a husband whoadopts her daughter, and he
knows who the real daddy is.
Yep.
So this man took this woman onwith this, like with the truth,
(09:46):
y'all.
Yeah.
You know, for all you women whoare scared to tell people about
your baby daddies.
Yeah.
Her baby daddy daddies.
Her baby daddy is also her babygrandpa.
Right.
So yeah, it can't be that bad,girl.
Just tell them.
Right.
He, I think Simmons was like notjust like messing with his kid.
(10:10):
I think like there were women inthe workplace, like when he was
working in a warehouse somewherethat he like kept hitting on.
Like people just he was just adirty old guy.
Yeah.
So y'all don't think he was goodjust because he went to the
military.
When you said military, I waslike, oh.
SPEAKER_01 (10:31):
Yeah.
This usually ends up bad.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Right.
And the fact that he's amarksman was not helpful.
Right.
So on the morning of December22nd, this is where it all
begins.
All right.
Christmas E V.
He shoots his wife and hisoldest son using a 22 caliber
(10:56):
pistol.
He then strangles otherchildren.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
The other children.
So he didn't want to shoot them.
So he he went ahead andstrangled them, which takes a
little while to kill fromstrangulation.
So wow, piece of garbage.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
So he strangles the four kids, all four kids that
are living there.
And he uses the guise of a hey,I got presents for you, early
presents, early presents.
And then attacks them.
And I'm just going, why didthese other children not run?
Right.
Like you can't strangle fourkids at once.
(11:34):
Right.
Why didn't you not run?
They were probably frozen infear.
Like, what is he doing?
Yeah.
And then he didn't just stranglethem, he held them underwater in
a rain barrel to, I guess, makesure they were really dead.
His oldest son and histhree-year-old granddaughter
(11:58):
come.
He shoots the son and hestrangles the three-year-old.
So this is his thing, is he'sshooting the bigger people,
strangling, strangling thelittle ones.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Because they can't fight back.
Right.
So on December 26th, he has hisremaining children and their
some of them have brought theirspouses and their children, you
know, their children becausethey're they do their annual
Christmas visit, staggered asfar as time of arrival goes.
(12:33):
He's making sure they don't allcome at once.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
So he can do the deed and get rid of the bodies.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Then he strangles their 20-month-old son.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
This man's disgusting.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yeah.
He did the exact same thing tohis oldest daughter, Sheila, and
her husband and their child.
His child.
Yeah.
His child.
His granddaughter daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
His last victim of the family was the 21-month-old
grandson Michael.
Seven of his family members hedumped in the backyard, but he
left the rest of them in thehouse, covering their corpses
with coats.
So he just like drapes somestuff over.
Right.
(13:36):
One of them he leaves on thetable, dining room table, and
puts it, puts their bodyunderneath the tablecloth.
Wow, he's a little a lot cuckoo.
He is a lot cuckoo.
So two of the children, the allthe little kids that he
strangled that were not the kidsthat belonged to him in the
house, the itty biddies thatcame his grandchildren.
(14:02):
He put the last one, the20-month-old one, in a trunk of
one abandoned car down thestreet.
He put the other two in adifferent car.
In the trunks of these randoabandoned cars.
What the heck?
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Instead of just burying them all.
Maybe that the was the hole fullat this point or something?
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
I don't know.
I mean, he did toss a bunch ofthem out there, so.
Wow.
He then gets in his own car anddrives to Russellville to pick
up Christmas gifts that he hadordered at Sears.
These are gifts that did notarrive on Christmas because this
is the day after Christmas.
(14:43):
They didn't arrive in time forhim to have them.
And I'm sitting here, why areyou picking this shit up?
You just killed everybody.
Right.
Who are you giving it to?
I don't know.
He's cuckoo.
He then drives to like a taverntype situation, gets him a
drink, but then he goes home andhe watches TV and drinks some
more beer for like the remainderof the weekend.
(15:05):
So these dead bodies justhanging out.
Hanging out.
And so is he.
Yeah.
Just hanging out.
Drinking, watching TV.
Like they're not even there.
Yeah.
So on December 28th, which isnow a Monday, he drives his
son's car into back into town,into Russellville, and he buys a
(15:27):
gun at Walmart.
Brand new gun.
Don't want to use the one I justkilled everybody with.
Right.
Let me get a new one.
He goes to a law firm where heshoots and kills the
receptionist.
Her name's Kathy Kendrick.
Is this somebody that maybe wasmaybe it's somebody who put him
(15:50):
off?
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Aff or after him about the incest?
Maybe so.
Oh who knows?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
We'll see if it's in here.
I can't remember.
Can't remember.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
That was just my thought process.
I'm like, was it just a rando oryeah?
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
He then goes to Taylor Oil Company, where he
shoots two people.
Oh, okay.
So randos.
Russell Taylor, the owner of theSinclair Minimart where he had
worked.
He ended up just being likewounded.
And then there was a fireman andtruck driver, JD Chaffin, who
(16:33):
was actually killed.
He then goes to the Minimartitself where he shoots and
wounds two other people.
He's just on a spree at thispoint.
Okay.
Then he drives to a woodlinemotor freight company and he
shoots his former supervisor inthe head and the chest.
(16:58):
She lives.
Oh wow.
He then holds one of the workersat gunpoint and tells her to
call the police.
He said he tells her, I've cometo do what I wanted to do.
It's all over now.
I've gotten everybody who wantedto hurt me.
(17:21):
So the your theory of thereceptionists at the law may be
true.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
So the your children wanted to hurt you, the babies
wanted to hurt you.
Right.
What?
What is right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like where?
So you just eliminated an entiregeneration.
Yeah.
And then got revenge on otherpeople that you didn't like.
Correct.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (17:47):
So after they arrest him and they go investigate at
the house, and they find 14bodies.
A massacre, yeah.
14 bodies at home.
They send him to the ArkansasState Hospital in Little Rock.
Where they say he's absolutelysane.
Mm-hmm.
(18:08):
Oh yeah.
Take him back.
They also find out during thatwhole investigation that a
friend of his wife said shewasn't indeed saving money to
divorce him and almost hadenough.
When the killings happened.
(18:29):
The freight company supervisorthat he shot in the head in the
chest that lived, she told themthat she had an altercation with
him in the past where he hadyelled at her about pay.
So they argued over his price.
There was a safe deposit boxthat a letter between Simmons
(18:56):
and his daughter Sheila wasfound in.
(19:20):
Yeah, and the whole like duringcourt proceedings, they've like
talked about this letter.
Yeah.
And when they did, Simmons gotup and punched the prosecutor in
the face and tried to take thehandgun from the deputy that was
in there.
Oh so he had to be removed fromthe courtroom.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
So it was a touchy subject for him.
Fuck you, dude.
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
I was like, what?
Yeah.
He does obviously get convictedof 14 counts of capital murder
and he's sentenced to death.
He uh waived all his appeals andwas executed via lethal
injection on June 25th, 1990.
(20:07):
Now he did say, and I think it'seffed up, to those who oppose
the death penalty in myparticular case, anything short
of death would be cruel andunusual punishment.
No, it's probably exactly what Ineeded.
Yeah.
Probably exactly what I needed.
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Exactly.
Don't take the easy way out.
Right.
Why?
It's just straight ridiculous.
Yeah.
The whole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
All of it.
All of it, y'all.
So overall he did kill 16 peoplethough.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
That man cuckoo, but not cuckoo, because he like
planned it all.
He knew what he was doing.
There he can't.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
And obviously, yeah.
It was building for years andyears and years.
Like, I I honestly probablythink he got pissed that she
moved out and got married.
Yeah.
Now the daughter he wasmolesting is gone.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
So, and then he like moved the rest of the family off
grid so he could control them.
Control them and keep them, youknow, away from other people so
they wouldn't talk.
And he probably planned on doingit to another daughter or had
been.
Yeah.
Because it doesn't stop at onein that situation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Yeah.
And I guess the sexual assaultof his daughter Sheila started
when she was 15.
unknown (21:43):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
So it was about the same time, like it was near his
retirement, like he didn't haveanything else to do.
Let me go fill up my kid.
And of course, he calls herlittle princess.
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Gross.
I hate men.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
It was actually one of right.
It was actually one of herteachers in New Mexico that had
suspected what was going on andtold the police.
Yeah.
And she's the I think she's thefirst person who knew that
Sheila was actually pregnant.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
And let me clarify, not all men, just men who are
like that, because there's nothere's no need for that at all.
Yeah.
Like it's just reallyridiculous.
Well, at least her teacher, youknow, said something, and that's
probably why he got angry andmoved them all to Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Because he didn't want to get arrested then just
for that.
So he's like, if I'm gonna goout, I'm gonna go out with a a
bang.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:52):
He actually even got sentenced to death twice.
Because you know, the other two.
Right.
Um, that trial was in May of1988.
And he literally tells thecourt, I want no action that
will delay, deny, defer, ordenounce this very correct and
(23:14):
proper death sentence.
I only ask for what I deserve.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
You deserve to be put in a sack and beaten with
torture torture for years.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Yes.
This is what you deserved.
He uh he actually had like putout, like I said, he waived all
his rights to appeals and stufflike that because he didn't want
to appeal it.
He wanted to die.
And there was a Catholic priestwho tried to get his sentence
overturned.
So he literally sat for like twomore years waiting because of
(23:51):
this holdup.
There was a delay.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
He's like, I'm gonna delay this.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah, and then um, like they said he like literally
spoke to no one, like grew biglong beard, looked even crazier
than he did when he came in, andfinally the Arkansas governor at
the time signed his deathproclamation, so that's why it
(24:17):
finally happened on June 25th,1990.
I don't think he lived longenough.
Yeah, no one claimed his body,so he was buried in a pauper's
grave.
Well, he killed his wholefamily, so nobody could nobody
could, but there were peoplethat still were alive that were
(24:39):
related to him, unfortunately.
Yeah, but they were like, no.
It's very unfortunate that we'rerelated, but nah.
Nah, I don't want it.
So yeah.
16 people at least they didn'tboil heads, right?
Or eat ribs.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
That was for Thanksgiving.
This is Christmas proper.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Right.
It would be more like deck thehalls with intestines.
Right.
Ew.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
But yeah.
Bloody enough.
Bloody enough.
Well, that was gross.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
My thing is like those poor kids, what what
reasoning?
Right.
I mean, did you just go, ohwell, I don't want to leave them
alive because their parents aredead now.
Somebody could have taken careof them.
Jeez.
But yikes.
Poor babies.
SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
And poor kids who dug a whole ash trench for their
own bodies to be thrown in.
Redonk.
Yeah.
Crazy man.
Well, apparently, sane man.
Yeah, sane man, but yeah.
Outraged.
And um, what is that?
(25:51):
Like he's got that twisted wayof thinking, and there's a word
for that.
And I did, I mean, he's not,it's not the word crazy because
he's not irrational.
Irrational, yeah.
Irrational.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
Not on the schizophrenia side, irrational.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
There we are.
Spit it out.
Yeah.
I know someone who's veryrational and likes to give daily
affirmations on social media.
I do too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah.
Patty Salzetta.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
That's right.
And she made our theme music.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
Yep.
She's very rational.
She's probably like shaking herhead every time she hears the
end of one of these and how weshe's like, I gotta listen for
my name.
Oh, there it is.
There it is.
Segway and uh her.
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
It's the best.
Oh, it's funny.
Yeah.
But yeah.
If you guys heard anything aboutthis and want to discuss it a
little bit, we're up fordiscussion.
Yeah, you can always email us athold my sweet tea podcast at
gmail.com.
And we're available on socialmedia.
That's right.
Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,YouTube.
(27:00):
Help our YouTube grow.
Yes.
We're still sitting at 92,y'all.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Still there.
Get your granny on YouTube.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Granny, subscribe.
What am I subscribing to?
Nothing.
Just subscribe.
Don't worry about it.
Just subscribe, Granny.
But we um, you know, I have moreChristmas stuff coming and hold
my sweet tea as always is theDrunken Bee Production.
And you guys stay safe outthere.
Watch out for those Christmasparties.
And just because we'redifferent, doesn't mean you
(27:31):
can't keep different.
Come with us to Arkansas 1987 as we tell you
(00:06):
about a sixteen-person killingspree.
This is Hold My Sweet Tea.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Jingle jingle.
That sounds kind of dirty, Iguess.
Right.
Look, we're still rolling in thethe holiday spirit.
unknown (01:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Not spirits.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
But um probably should be.
At least then we'd have anexcuse for how silly we are.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
It's good to sometimes have a rant session
before we record because it getsour our juices flowing.
I was about to say.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Makes my face red, my blood's bumping.
Yep.
Yeah.
Ready to talk about somebodyelse's misfortune.
There we go.
There we go.
We had to get ours out first,and then we're like, let's go.
Roll right into someone else'sbad time.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
We're in the first week of creepsness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Talking about creeps.
All the creeps.
Yeah.
You you're I am I am intriguedabout your creep because you
told me a little tiny snippet,and I'm like, oh, what?
Yeah.
You have so many questions.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
So many.
Yeah.
I have so many questions.
I'm the one doing this.
But yeah, so we're gonna uh talkabout a guy who killed 16
people.
It was several days that huggedChristmas.
Okay, that hugged Christmas.
Yes.
Several days that huggedChristmas.
So it starts a little bit beforeand runs after.
(02:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
So he spent his whole holiday vacation slaying
away.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think he dressed up in aSanta Claus suit or Krampus.
Right.
But he's scary enough on hisown, apparently.
So we're gonna chit-chat alittle about Mr.
Ronald Gene Simmons.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Not Gene Simmons from KISS.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
No.
We'll just call him Simmons.
Simmons.
We're not going to talk aboutthe good Gene Simmons.
Right.
Talk about the bad one.
So he's born in 1940 in Chicago.
(03:08):
His dad would die of a strokelike three years later.
And his mom would get remarriedto a man named William Griffin,
who was part of the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers.
So in 1957, when Simmons decideshe's dropping out of school, he
(03:32):
joins the Navy.
unknown (03:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Probably at the behest of his stepdad.
Probably.
Probably like, if you're notgoing to finish school, you need
to join the military.
He gets stationed in Washington,and this is where he meets his
wife.
And we're just going to call herBecky.
Her name was Rebecca, but we'regoing to call her Becky.
(03:57):
Does she have good hair?
Becky with the good hair?
She's Becky with the okay hair.
unknown (04:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
They get married in 1960 in New Mexico.
Well, they're just well,military.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
He leaves the Navy a few yearsafter his marriage and joins the
Air Force.
Okay.
Like, what are we doing?
I don't want to be on a boat.
I'd rather be in the air.
There we go.
I guess.
Which is funny because, youknow, they use naval ships.
(04:27):
Yep.
They land Air Force airplanes.
It's fun times.
But over the next 18 years,Simmons and Becky have seven
kids.
Seven kids.
It's a lot of kids.
Yeah, it's a lot of kids.
I'm like, yikes.
So Simmons actually retires in1979.
(04:52):
And he had several awards thathe had won while during his
service.
He had a bronze star medal, theRepublic of Vietnam gallantry
cross, and the Air Force ribbonfor excellent markmanship.
So he was well decorated.
But they weren't that big, happyfamily you like to talk about
(05:17):
all the time.
Right.
The big family.
Right.
There wasn't any signs that theywere normal in the least.
There were some allegations thatcame about in uh 1981 that
Simmons had been sexuallyabusing his 17-year-old
(05:39):
daughter.
There was even a bigger rumorthat he fathered a child with
this daughter.
That's disgusting.
Which, by the way, wasn't arumor.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
It was true.
I hate hearing about stuff likethat.
It's just why.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Right.
So the Department of HumanServices in New Mexico starts
investigating this.
And when that all happens, hedecides we move in.
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Yeah, let's get out of here so I don't get arrested.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
Mm-hmm.
So they end up getting a bigpiece of land.
And they call it MockingbirdHill in Dover, Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Oh.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
It was very isolated, desolate, like really
rough land.
Isolated is probably not evenreally a great word because they
didn't have any phone.
There's no plumbing.
And the whole place issurrounded by this like
(06:56):
hodgepodgey fence.
Ah, so a compound.
Basically.
Okay.
The final thing his children dobefore Christmas is dig a four
foot deep ditch in the yardbecause he said they needed it
(07:22):
for an outhouse.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
I'm thinking it's not for an outhouse.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
It's not for an outhouse.
It is not at all for anouthouse.
Okay.
So for whatever reason, Simmonsdecides right before Christmas
that I think I'm going to killmy whole family.
unknown (07:47):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
There are speculations that say that they
think that the reason he didthis was because obviously his
daughter with the kid that hefathered.
Not to mention that he, I thinkhe was starting to hear things
like that his wife was gonnadivorce him and leave him.
(08:09):
And I'm gonna say something thatI think is the grossest thing
ever because my grandma used todo it and I hated it.
Wives would call their husbandsdad, like refer to him as dad.
I guess because he's dad totheir kids.
Right.
I don't understand it.
It's not like daddy now.
Right.
(08:29):
Right.
No, this is not what that was.
Right.
So there's reports that say hiswife had actually said, I don't
want to live the rest of my lifewith dad.
I'm a prisoner here, and thekids are too.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Well, I guess it's because in that situation, it's
like he becomes her dad becausehe's like telling her what to
do, and she has no freedoms todo anything.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
So this was like reportedly something she wrote
to her son.
Yeah.
Um, because the older kids hadmoved away from him during all
this.
So there were four young onesthat were still living with him.
Those are the ones that dug theditch.
Oh gosh.
She further said, Every time Ithink of freedom, I want out as
(09:17):
soon as possible.
But obviously she was stuck.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Now, Sheila is the daughter that he's accused of
having a baby with.
Sheila does get married.
So Sheila has a husband whoadopts her daughter, and he
knows who the real daddy is.
Yep.
So this man took this woman onwith this, like with the truth,
(09:46):
y'all.
Yeah.
You know, for all you women whoare scared to tell people about
your baby daddies.
Yeah.
Her baby daddy daddies.
Her baby daddy is also her babygrandpa.
Right.
So yeah, it can't be that bad,girl.
Just tell them.
Right.
He, I think Simmons was like notjust like messing with his kid.
(10:10):
I think like there were women inthe workplace, like when he was
working in a warehouse somewherethat he like kept hitting on.
Like people just he was just adirty old guy.
Yeah.
So y'all don't think he was goodjust because he went to the
military.
When you said military, I waslike, oh.
SPEAKER_01 (10:31):
Yeah.
This usually ends up bad.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Right.
And the fact that he's amarksman was not helpful.
Right.
So on the morning of December22nd, this is where it all
begins.
All right.
Christmas E V.
He shoots his wife and hisoldest son using a 22 caliber
(10:56):
pistol.
He then strangles otherchildren.
SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
The other children.
So he didn't want to shoot them.
So he he went ahead andstrangled them, which takes a
little while to kill fromstrangulation.
So wow, piece of garbage.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
So he strangles the four kids, all four kids that
are living there.
And he uses the guise of a hey,I got presents for you, early
presents, early presents.
And then attacks them.
And I'm just going, why didthese other children not run?
Right.
Like you can't strangle fourkids at once.
(11:34):
Right.
Why didn't you not run?
They were probably frozen infear.
Like, what is he doing?
Yeah.
And then he didn't just stranglethem, he held them underwater in
a rain barrel to, I guess, makesure they were really dead.
His oldest son and histhree-year-old granddaughter
(11:58):
come.
He shoots the son and hestrangles the three-year-old.
So this is his thing, is he'sshooting the bigger people,
strangling, strangling thelittle ones.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Because they can't fight back.
Right.
So on December 26th, he has hisremaining children and their
some of them have brought theirspouses and their children, you
know, their children becausethey're they do their annual
Christmas visit, staggered asfar as time of arrival goes.
(12:33):
He's making sure they don't allcome at once.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
So he can do the deed and get rid of the bodies.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Then he strangles their 20-month-old son.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
This man's disgusting.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Yeah.
He did the exact same thing tohis oldest daughter, Sheila, and
her husband and their child.
His child.
Yeah.
His child.
His granddaughter daughter.
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
His last victim of the family was the 21-month-old
grandson Michael.
Seven of his family members hedumped in the backyard, but he
left the rest of them in thehouse, covering their corpses
with coats.
So he just like drapes somestuff over.
Right.
(13:36):
One of them he leaves on thetable, dining room table, and
puts it, puts their bodyunderneath the tablecloth.
Wow, he's a little a lot cuckoo.
He is a lot cuckoo.
So two of the children, the allthe little kids that he
strangled that were not the kidsthat belonged to him in the
house, the itty biddies thatcame his grandchildren.
(14:02):
He put the last one, the20-month-old one, in a trunk of
one abandoned car down thestreet.
He put the other two in adifferent car.
In the trunks of these randoabandoned cars.
What the heck?
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Instead of just burying them all.
Maybe that the was the hole fullat this point or something?
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
I don't know.
I mean, he did toss a bunch ofthem out there, so.
Wow.
He then gets in his own car anddrives to Russellville to pick
up Christmas gifts that he hadordered at Sears.
These are gifts that did notarrive on Christmas because this
is the day after Christmas.
(14:43):
They didn't arrive in time forhim to have them.
And I'm sitting here, why areyou picking this shit up?
You just killed everybody.
Right.
Who are you giving it to?
I don't know.
He's cuckoo.
He then drives to like a taverntype situation, gets him a
drink, but then he goes home andhe watches TV and drinks some
more beer for like the remainderof the weekend.
(15:05):
So these dead bodies justhanging out.
Hanging out.
And so is he.
Yeah.
Just hanging out.
Drinking, watching TV.
Like they're not even there.
Yeah.
So on December 28th, which isnow a Monday, he drives his
son's car into back into town,into Russellville, and he buys a
(15:27):
gun at Walmart.
Brand new gun.
Don't want to use the one I justkilled everybody with.
Right.
Let me get a new one.
He goes to a law firm where heshoots and kills the
receptionist.
Her name's Kathy Kendrick.
Is this somebody that maybe wasmaybe it's somebody who put him
(15:50):
off?
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Aff or after him about the incest?
Maybe so.
Oh who knows?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
We'll see if it's in here.
I can't remember.
Can't remember.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
That was just my thought process.
I'm like, was it just a rando oryeah?
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
He then goes to Taylor Oil Company, where he
shoots two people.
Oh, okay.
So randos.
Russell Taylor, the owner of theSinclair Minimart where he had
worked.
He ended up just being likewounded.
And then there was a fireman andtruck driver, JD Chaffin, who
(16:33):
was actually killed.
He then goes to the Minimartitself where he shoots and
wounds two other people.
He's just on a spree at thispoint.
Okay.
Then he drives to a woodlinemotor freight company and he
shoots his former supervisor inthe head and the chest.
(16:58):
She lives.
Oh wow.
He then holds one of the workersat gunpoint and tells her to
call the police.
He said he tells her, I've cometo do what I wanted to do.
It's all over now.
I've gotten everybody who wantedto hurt me.
(17:21):
So the your theory of thereceptionists at the law may be
true.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
So the your children wanted to hurt you, the babies
wanted to hurt you.
Right.
What?
What is right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like where?
So you just eliminated an entiregeneration.
Yeah.
And then got revenge on otherpeople that you didn't like.
Correct.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (17:47):
So after they arrest him and they go investigate at
the house, and they find 14bodies.
A massacre, yeah.
14 bodies at home.
They send him to the ArkansasState Hospital in Little Rock.
Where they say he's absolutelysane.
Mm-hmm.
(18:08):
Oh yeah.
Take him back.
They also find out during thatwhole investigation that a
friend of his wife said shewasn't indeed saving money to
divorce him and almost hadenough.
When the killings happened.
(18:29):
The freight company supervisorthat he shot in the head in the
chest that lived, she told themthat she had an altercation with
him in the past where he hadyelled at her about pay.
So they argued over his price.
There was a safe deposit boxthat a letter between Simmons
(18:56):
and his daughter Sheila wasfound in.
(19:20):
Yeah, and the whole like duringcourt proceedings, they've like
talked about this letter.
Yeah.
And when they did, Simmons gotup and punched the prosecutor in
the face and tried to take thehandgun from the deputy that was
in there.
Oh so he had to be removed fromthe courtroom.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
So it was a touchy subject for him.
Fuck you, dude.
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
I was like, what?
Yeah.
He does obviously get convictedof 14 counts of capital murder
and he's sentenced to death.
He uh waived all his appeals andwas executed via lethal
injection on June 25th, 1990.
(20:07):
Now he did say, and I think it'seffed up, to those who oppose
the death penalty in myparticular case, anything short
of death would be cruel andunusual punishment.
No, it's probably exactly what Ineeded.
Yeah.
Probably exactly what I needed.
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Exactly.
Don't take the easy way out.
Right.
Why?
It's just straight ridiculous.
Yeah.
The whole thing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
All of it.
All of it, y'all.
So overall he did kill 16 peoplethough.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
That man cuckoo, but not cuckoo, because he like
planned it all.
He knew what he was doing.
There he can't.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
And obviously, yeah.
It was building for years andyears and years.
Like, I I honestly probablythink he got pissed that she
moved out and got married.
Yeah.
Now the daughter he wasmolesting is gone.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
So, and then he like moved the rest of the family off
grid so he could control them.
Control them and keep them, youknow, away from other people so
they wouldn't talk.
And he probably planned on doingit to another daughter or had
been.
Yeah.
Because it doesn't stop at onein that situation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Yeah.
And I guess the sexual assaultof his daughter Sheila started
when she was 15.
unknown (21:43):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
So it was about the same time, like it was near his
retirement, like he didn't haveanything else to do.
Let me go fill up my kid.
And of course, he calls herlittle princess.
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Gross.
I hate men.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
It was actually one of right.
It was actually one of herteachers in New Mexico that had
suspected what was going on andtold the police.
Yeah.
And she's the I think she's thefirst person who knew that
Sheila was actually pregnant.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
And let me clarify, not all men, just men who are
like that, because there's nothere's no need for that at all.
Yeah.
Like it's just reallyridiculous.
Well, at least her teacher, youknow, said something, and that's
probably why he got angry andmoved them all to Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Because he didn't want to get arrested then just
for that.
So he's like, if I'm gonna goout, I'm gonna go out with a a
bang.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:52):
He actually even got sentenced to death twice.
Because you know, the other two.
Right.
Um, that trial was in May of1988.
And he literally tells thecourt, I want no action that
will delay, deny, defer, ordenounce this very correct and
(23:14):
proper death sentence.
I only ask for what I deserve.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
You deserve to be put in a sack and beaten with
torture torture for years.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Yes.
This is what you deserved.
He uh he actually had like putout, like I said, he waived all
his rights to appeals and stufflike that because he didn't want
to appeal it.
He wanted to die.
And there was a Catholic priestwho tried to get his sentence
overturned.
So he literally sat for like twomore years waiting because of
(23:51):
this holdup.
There was a delay.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
He's like, I'm gonna delay this.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah, and then um, like they said he like literally
spoke to no one, like grew biglong beard, looked even crazier
than he did when he came in, andfinally the Arkansas governor at
the time signed his deathproclamation, so that's why it
(24:17):
finally happened on June 25th,1990.
I don't think he lived longenough.
Yeah, no one claimed his body,so he was buried in a pauper's
grave.
Well, he killed his wholefamily, so nobody could nobody
could, but there were peoplethat still were alive that were
(24:39):
related to him, unfortunately.
Yeah, but they were like, no.
It's very unfortunate that we'rerelated, but nah.
Nah, I don't want it.
So yeah.
16 people at least they didn'tboil heads, right?
Or eat ribs.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
That was for Thanksgiving.
This is Christmas proper.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
Right.
It would be more like deck thehalls with intestines.
Right.
Ew.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
But yeah.
Bloody enough.
Bloody enough.
Well, that was gross.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
My thing is like those poor kids, what what
reasoning?
Right.
I mean, did you just go, ohwell, I don't want to leave them
alive because their parents aredead now.
Somebody could have taken careof them.
Jeez.
But yikes.
Poor babies.
SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
And poor kids who dug a whole ash trench for their
own bodies to be thrown in.
Redonk.
Yeah.
Crazy man.
Well, apparently, sane man.
Yeah, sane man, but yeah.
Outraged.
And um, what is that?
(25:51):
Like he's got that twisted wayof thinking, and there's a word
for that.
And I did, I mean, he's not,it's not the word crazy because
he's not irrational.
Irrational, yeah.
Irrational.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
Not on the schizophrenia side, irrational.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
There we are.
Spit it out.
Yeah.
I know someone who's veryrational and likes to give daily
affirmations on social media.
I do too.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah.
Patty Salzetta.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
That's right.
And she made our theme music.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
Yep.
She's very rational.
She's probably like shaking herhead every time she hears the
end of one of these and how weshe's like, I gotta listen for
my name.
Oh, there it is.
There it is.
Segway and uh her.
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
It's the best.
Oh, it's funny.
Yeah.
But yeah.
If you guys heard anything aboutthis and want to discuss it a
little bit, we're up fordiscussion.
Yeah, you can always email us athold my sweet tea podcast at
gmail.com.
And we're available on socialmedia.
That's right.
Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,YouTube.
(27:00):
Help our YouTube grow.
Yes.
We're still sitting at 92,y'all.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
Still there.
Get your granny on YouTube.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Granny, subscribe.
What am I subscribing to?
Nothing.
Just subscribe.
Don't worry about it.
Just subscribe, Granny.
But we um, you know, I have moreChristmas stuff coming and hold
my sweet tea as always is theDrunken Bee Production.
And you guys stay safe outthere.
Watch out for those Christmasparties.
And just because we'redifferent, doesn't mean you
(27:31):
can't keep different.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.