S1 E5: Socialization, Old Friends, and Bunny Ears

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeneve (00:06):
This is Homeschooled, a podcast for the homeschool
skeptics, diehards, the curious,and the discouraged.
I'm your host, Jenève Dubé.

Jenève (00:22):
Uh, okay.
I'm gonna just like, let's jumpin here.
Um, Noah, can you, like, tell usa little bit about yourself?
Everyone's favorite question.
Just

Noah (00:32):
uh, no.
Okay.
So I was born in New York when Iwas about six, moved to Jersey,
homeschooled in both thoseareas, significantly different
experience.
Um, and then homeschooled myentire life in throughout high
school.
And then I went to, uh, college,um, and this was all in Jersey.

(00:53):
And now I'm living out in LApursuing uh, the animation
industry and education.
I'm a teacher.
That's pretty much the quickshort

Jenève (01:02):
That was a good, uh, yeah, that was good.
That was good.
So, hey Josiah, nice to meetyou.

Josiah (01:07):
Great to meet you.

Jenève (01:10):
Yeah, um, tell, tell us about, when you started
homeschooling, like, your familysize too, and like, um, we know
you grew up in Jersey, or ish,around Noah too, and, um, yeah,
but if you could give us alittle recap of your
homeschooling background, that'dbe

Josiah (01:24):
absolutely.
So, New York and New Jersey areso twisted up that it's like I
actually live in New York, eventhough I live close to Noah.

Jenève (01:31):
Oh.

Josiah (01:32):
I grew up in New York.
It was called Rockland County,where I grew

Jenève (01:34):
Oh,

Josiah (01:35):
Um, no, it's fine.
It's But, so, really the reasonthat I was homeschooled in the
first place was because myparents kind of, like,
identified a couple things earlyon that they thought, meant that
I would really like, like,performing and performing arts
and things like that.
Um, and so the thing that theydescribed to me later, obviously

(01:56):
I was like three, was that Iwould play with my toys.
And I wasn't like a little kidin the way that I played with my
toys.
I was like a director of amovie.
Like, I would do one, like, twohour narrative path of the
story, it would stay consistent,and I would, like, stop the
story and adjust things and belike, well, Spider Man and the

(02:19):
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,like, they don't actually know
each other, but they both livein New York.
So then I would, like, createthe whole story in my head and
have them, like,

Noah (02:27):
Gotta

Jenève (02:27):
Oh, whoa.

Josiah (02:28):
climactic, like, start to finish thing that I would do
for, like, two hours at a timeat three years old.
And so, my parents picked up onthat, and they sort of, like,
Obviously you start watchingmovies, you start watching TV
shows, you start watching, like,Barney was the big TV show when
I was a little kid.

Jenève (02:44):
Oh, I was obsessed.

Josiah (02:47):
and it's, it's all kids your age.
It's all, like, six year oldkids on the show.
Um, and so they introduced theidea of acting to me, and I
really latched onto that hard,like, right away.
That just, like, became myidentity.
That's all I wanted to do, wasjust be an actor.
Um, and so by the time we got tokindergarten, I already knew how

(03:09):
to read and write, so they werelike, Well, we'll just hold them
back for a year, and see, like,what this acting obsession turns
into, um, and then maybe we'llsend them to first grade.
And then, when I was five, Iwent on my first audition, um,
and it was in, I think,Englewood, New Jersey.

(03:29):
It was a theater that I don'tthink exists anymore, but I
didn't get it.
I didn't get the part.
And I was devastated, like, ranoff the stage, like, crying,
bawling to my parents.
And I was like, so devastated.
But it didn't,

Jenève (03:44):
like your future is shattered or something, like,
because of

Noah (03:47):
You're like, I can't do this anymore.
I give up on acting.
You're already throwing

Josiah (03:50):
for that day.
And I can specifically remember,because obviously you're little
kids, but I specificallyremember the activities that
they had us doing was just tosay your name with different
emotions.
So they would be like, say yourname like you just won the
lottery.
Say your name like the saddestthing just happened to you.
You know what I mean?
Um, but I didn't get it.

(04:11):
And that just, I don't know, lita spark in me or something where
it didn't put me off to it.
It just made me want to do iteven more.
And so I worked really hard andI went back and I auditioned at
the same theater for anothershow the next year when I was
six and I got it.
And so then they didn't send meto first grade and it just sort

(04:33):
of progressed.
Like they were cool enough tonot like squash my dream or tell
me like, that's not really howlife goes.
They just totally supported meand were like, go for it.
You know,

Jenève (04:45):
That's really cool.
That's awesome.
So wait, but like the that firstlike where you got like
rejected, like you said you weredevastated, but then you like
you kind of did that like morphinto that like fire in you to
try it again?
Or like do you remember thatprocess?
That

Josiah (05:01):
I remember I got a Hot Wheels car later that day.
That was what I remember.

Jenève (05:08):
love That

Josiah (05:10):
I don't, I,

Jenève (05:11):
that's

Noah (05:11):
either you win and you get the part or you lose and you get
a Hot

Josiah (05:14):
have the toy, yeah.

Noah (05:15):
the part.
So it's like sick.
Yeah.

Jenève (05:17):
that makes me think of the, uh, like, the, the
reasoning behind, um, parents,like, homeschooling.
Like, that, even just that storytells me, like, your parents are
really passionate about, like,letting you figure out what you
wanted to do and, like, followwhat you were interested in.
With, does that sound, like, didthat kind of, was that a, um,
sort of, I'm looking for, like,a common thread throughout your

(05:38):
homeschool experience or how didthat play

Josiah (05:42):
Yeah, um, it was sort of, it was sort of unique to
like a lot of the otherhomeschool kids that I would
know and grow up with because myparents didn't have a problem
with school, like they went topublic school their whole life.
It wasn't that they didn't agreewith it, it was more like the
circumstance of wanting topursue acting and wanting to
perform And so, I think thecreativity of that being our

(06:05):
focus sort of did, like, bleedover into even how we did
homeschooling and, like, ourlifestyle and, you know, my mom
would, like, find differentnature, like, she always was
taking us to stuff that wasoutside and, like, where we
would be learning about naturedirectly from it and she always,

(06:26):
like, sort of nurtured thatcreative point of view.
It wasn't just like staring at abook all day.
She was very involved.
She was very creative as aparent teacher,

Jenève (06:37):
I mean, that's kinda like your mom too, Noah, right?

Noah (06:39):
I was thinking, and your mom, like, we have some creative
parents that love to just, uh,do things their own way, I
think.

Jenève (06:48):
Mm.

Noah (06:49):
But Yeah.
my mom is definitely, like, evenI was just telling her the other
day, like, I am doing, like, theart and P.
E.
class on Saturdays, you know?
And, like, that just kind ofhappened because our P.
E.
teacher was like, oh, do youwant me to help out and do,
like, a little art exhibit?
And I was like, ah, this seemsfamiliar,

Jenève (07:03):
Yeah.
Um, so we brought up Moms Um, I,you know, the

Noah (07:14):
of the session of the podcast.

Jenève (07:17):
Yeah, um, I, well, I was just like talking to some of my
friends about the motivations oflike parents to homeschool.
So like we talked about likeyour mom's style of
homeschooling, but I'm curiouslike what both of you guys, like
what your perception of thereason your parents homeschooled
is.
Like maybe the perception youhad when you were a kid, if you

(07:38):
had one, and then like maybe howthat's morphed or what you've
realized or even like if you'vetalked to them about it since
then and like true, you know,truly understood why they chose
to.

Noah (07:50):
My mom always, or like my parents story that they would
tell at like parties orwhatever, um, was just that,
like, my mom wasn't thrilled.
Like she was a teacher in thepublic school in New York and
then she wasn't, when she had myolder sister, uh, she was
debating, like, she wasn't sureif she, she was very protective.
And so she didn't feel like shewanted her kid to go to the

(08:11):
school that she was working at.
Um, like, and my, and she waslike conflicted with that.
Um, um, and then, um, Justbecause, you know, it's one
thing to be a teacher at aschool, but then it's another
thing to have your kid go tothat school because you're not
in control of their interactionswith other kids and like
bullying or whatever like that.
and so the story goes that mydad was like, well, you could

(08:33):
teach it better than they'redoing it at the school.
So why don't you just like teachthem and homeschool them?
And so my dad was actually theone that like, pushed her or
like nudged her into doinghomeschooling.
Um, and then she like took thatand ran with it.
Um, and so that was the, theparty line, but I think, I mean,

(08:54):
I think that's actually prettyaccurate.
And I, and I think she keptgoing with it cause it was nice.
Like she wanted to be veryinvolved in her kids lives.
And, um, and I think that was areally good way to do that and
to.
Be able to be with your kidslike all day and while also
giving them like the propereducation.

Jenève (09:16):
yeah.

Noah (09:16):
Cause she already knew how to do that too.
So she was like, well, I knowhow to do that and I want to be
with my kids.
So

Jenève (09:21):
Yeah, like she has the skills, like, yeah, and the
confidence with that.

Noah (09:25):
And in Jersey, it's even more hands off.
Like, like New York is like,they're way strict, like more
strict.
Like the, you have to submit, Ithink yearly, uh, like, uh,
Standardized

Jenève (09:37):
Like progress reports, or something?
Oh,

Noah (09:39):
or maybe, so I didn't realize this, but like when
they, when our parents startedhomeschooling us, like we, it
wasn't like that long ago thatit was illegal to homeschool
your kids in the U.
S., which is crazy.
Like, I was like, oh, so thatwas kind of like a very like
rebellious or even like hippiething to do.
Um, not that I would identify myparents as like hippies, but

(10:01):
they're definitely likeindependent thinkers.
Um, but yeah, That was what Ihad heard, but then when we
moved to Jersey, Jersey waslike, we don't even care.
Like, you can homeschool yourkids all the way into high
school and you don't have tosend us anything.
So you can really go off therails and then go to college.
But maybe it's changed now whereNew York is.
What would

Jenève (10:20):
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I have to look into

Noah (10:22):
Because you were actually in New York the entire time you
were

Josiah (10:24):
I was, but I wouldn't have been privy to what my
parents were sending to thestate.
Like I wasn't, definitely wasn'tinvolved in any of that, you
know?

Jenève (10:33):
you weren't signing off.

Josiah (10:35):
I was doing my taxes at 12.

Noah (10:38):
going on auditions.
Like I had better things toworry about.
Yeah.

Josiah (10:41):
Um,

Noah (10:44):
But yeah, what was it like, what did your parents tell
you was the reason why theyhomeschooled you and your
sister?

Josiah (10:49):
so my, I have an older sister, yeah, she's three years
older, and she went to schoolfor like two weeks, and yeah,
that's,

Noah (10:58):
I

Jenève (10:59):
Two long and hard

Noah (11:00):
oh sorry, no names.
I think my younger brother wentto school for two weeks too and
was like,

Jenève (11:04):
Oh, Yeah.

Josiah (11:05):
And

Jenève (11:06):
Oh

Josiah (11:06):
it's actually one of my first memories that I have is
like being in a car seat in theback of my dad.
My dad had a red Honda Civicthat only had two doors and it
was from like 1988 or something.
And I can remember being in acar seat looking at the school
that my sister went to for twoweeks.
That was like my first memoryever.
I think that it pretty much tiesback to like my introduction.

(11:28):
Um, My parents homeschooled mebecause they spotted that
passion that I had for acting.
And also because they, like Ithink a lot of homeschool
parents do, they didn't waituntil kindergarten age to start
teaching us that stuff.
So as soon as we could walk andtalk, we were, they were trying

(11:49):
to engage us with shapes and,you know, drawing and writing
and reading and basic stuff likethat.
Um, It's funny, my parentsactually have a picture of me
from when I was like 8 monthsold, standing up.
I like have my hand onsomething, but I'm standing up
on my own.
Um,

Jenève (12:07):
You're like, I got this.
I've got acting to do in acouple years, so, uh, I'm

Josiah (12:13):
speaking of acting, do you want to know what my
favorite toy, my favorite toyever growing up was?
A vacuum that didn't workanymore.
And I would just, all day, Iwould just push it around and
pretend that I was vacuuming.
Like a year and a half.
My parents have videos of mebecause They got a camcorder.
It was the 90s so you could geta big camcorder and

Jenève (12:34):
those cute, like, you put like a VHS in, like, yeah,

Josiah (12:37):
for like 20 minutes but they have, they have videos of
me like it's twice as big as meand I'm like dragging it around
pretending to like vacuum.

Jenève (12:48):
yeah, wow,

Josiah (12:49):
it just spiraled from that, just like the, the
performative side of me.
They were like, we need tonurture this.
We need to let him be himself.
And then, like I said, I alreadyhad the skills that you learn in
kindergarten by the time I wasthat age.
And it just was sort of ajumping off point where, I think
by third grade, we had found thehomeschool group where I met

(13:12):
Noah.
And I was auditioning for thingsconsistently.
I was actually auditioning andbooking things that I got paid
for.
And so my parents were like, whywould we send him to school now?
You know, this is what the paththat he wants to be on, you
know?

Jenève (13:29):
You know what's so, what's so interesting to me is
like, all of us have a big,like, artistic, uh, streak with,
like, through, through all of,like, like Noah was saying,
like, all of our moms are, like,really creative and, like, like,
that valuing, like, just art,period, I think sadly, doesn't
always jive with, like, a highstandard of education.

(13:52):
you're either, like, reallyfocusing on your, like, textbook
stuff, or you're, like, dancingand doing art things.
And I, like, I think it's reallycool, like, and very interesting
that all three of us had parentswho were like, No, this is,
really great and I want it.
Not even that, like, we wannaencourage it and like enable it
more

Noah (14:10):
will say too, like, I think that advanced schools
these days are starting to tapmore into that and the arts and
everything, but it's sointeresting because I think now,
like, even though, like, wetalked about like homeschooling
and like that kind ofprioritizing the arts wasn't
something, like, it's still notreally something that's like
widely,

Jenève (14:29):
Yeah.
So

Noah (14:31):
because it's like, it's just, that's just not how you,
it's not on the SATs.
It's math and like reading andwriting, you know, and so.
But it's interesting becauselike what you were saying is
like the arts is all about selfexpression or like creativity
and like creative problemsolving, which are all skills
that we're realizing and likeare more and more valuable in as
adults, you know?
And then even like what yousaid, Josiah, about like, your

(14:54):
first, I think you said it wasyour first acting audition where
you had to say your name anddifferent emotions, you know?
Like that's, that's like anexercise that's like similar to
ones that we do in the classroomwhere it's like, Having the kids
act out like when I do arttherapy, it's like draw
something that's sad or drawsomething that's angry just to
have them process and name andlike identify all those

(15:14):
different emotions.
So it's like even though thatwasn't the exercise for you is
just to see if you can act thatout.
It's like the arts are soingrained with the social and
emotional element of being a lotof human and like interacting
the human, like the world andeverything.
Um, I think that's what peopleare realizing now is like, oh,
the arts and the emotions andall that stuff, we need to start

(15:37):
to focus on that a little bitmore.
But like, like you showed withthat audition story, it's like,
that's already integrated intothe arts.
So I think like our parents werekind of on the cutting edge of
like where the schools weregoing to start to head
eventually by prioritizing thearts and having us be
homeschooled.

Jenève (15:54):
mm.
Yeah.

Noah (15:55):
just, that's, Yeah.

Jenève (16:01):
I, I went through like phases I think like while I was
being homeschooled and like incollege also of feeling really
proud of that like aspect of myhomeschool experience that I
could explore the, I'm sayingthe, I don't know why the art
sounds pretentious, but I'mlike, I mean like,

Noah (16:21):
At least you're not saying human, like, as many times as
I'm saying human.
I was like, how many times am Igoing to say, like, human
people?
like

Jenève (16:31):
no, but like I, I was really proud of the fact that
like, oh, I got to like, Ireally, I got to take like art
classes and drawing and music.
And, and these were things thatwere encouraged in my family.
Um, and I, I went through somephases, I think it was like in
high school too.
And then a little bit in collegewhere I was like, I wish like I
did a little more math andscience.
I was like, you know, um.

(16:54):
I don't know, what, did you guysfeel like that was really
balanced in your, in your, uh,as far as like curriculum is
concerned of what kinds ofthings you were learning how did
that feel?
Like, considering the fact thatthere was this emphasis on
creativity and self expression.
Mmm.

Noah (17:13):
exempt from math.
And so I was like, oh, I knewit! I was like, thank god, like,
this finally makes sense.
And everybody in the room thatwas like, in that, that was like
the BFA program, the Bachelor ofFine Arts program, everyone
literally cheered.
Like, the person who announcedit was like, yes, you guys can
clap.
Like, you don't have to do anymore math.
And we were all just like,

Jenève (17:31):
Amazing.

Noah (17:32):
yeah, I was like, I was like, man, I should have just
like all those people that werelike, don't doodle your math
books and everything.

Josiah (17:38):
Mm hmm.

Jenève (17:40):
Wow.

Noah (17:40):
Like it paid off.

Josiah (17:41):
Yeah, in my household, I think it was pretty balanced.
My dad was a math teacher whenwe were growing up.
So I Thank you.
Yeah, I was never crazy aboutmath growing up.
I was it didn't like travel overto me, but he was always there
uh with like the right way toexplain everything and he was
naturally good at like teachingso um I kind of,

Noah (18:05):
That's what I was going to ask you.
Did both of your parents likedual teach a lot of the time?

Josiah (18:11):
my dad was just

Jenève (18:11):
My dad, Like

Noah (18:12):
Like somebody has to work, I guess.
Yeah.

Jenève (18:16):
My dad like taught us,

Noah (18:17):
like a lot of the homework projects, but

Jenève (18:19):
yeah,

Noah (18:20):
What did your dad

Jenève (18:22):
on the weekends, he was like, he he got a kick out of
it.
he would like do our likescience textbook with us and he
would call himself Dr.
Brains.
And he would like, he justthought it was hilarious.
And he was like, okay, todaywith Dr.
Brains.
And it was just like, it was afun time.
Like, obviously my dad was likenot a science teacher, but I

(18:44):
mean, you can follow a lot ofthe like curriculum stuff and
you're good.
But, um, I do remember that.
I think of that fondly.
Yeah, or doctor.
Yeah, but um, yeah, there'salways like a little bit of a
Kind of fun, silly element tothat for us, but yeah.
Sorry, Josiah, I think um, I cutyou off earlier you had the math
piece a little bit from yourdad.

(19:05):
Like, he was a resource for you.

Josiah (19:06):
He was somebody that, like, at the end of the day,
like Noah said, it's like he wasout working all day.
But then when he would get home,if anything, problems that I had
with my math textbook, he wasthere to, like, you know, help
me and sort of, like, guide methrough that.
Because I was, math was, like, areal weak point for me.
And it's one of those thingsthat I think a lot of people,

(19:28):
it's It gets internalized as aweak point, and so then they
don't care about it anymore.
They say, oh, well, I don't likemath.
And then they just totallydisregard it from their life.
And I think that was always kindof the fight, was to, for him to
like, try to, you know, convinceyou like, no, you, you're not
bad at math.

(19:49):
Like, nobody's bad at math.
You're just not looking at itthe right way.
You're just not open to learningit the way you need to learn it.

Noah (19:56):
No,

Jenève (19:57):
yeah, totally.
Okay,

Noah (20:01):
is, I remember you telling me that, that he gave you like,
because math is, I've nowlearned after college was like,
it's less about learning the waythat they teach it in school,
but it's like learning the righttrick and giving that to the
students.
And so if you have a teacherthat does that, like, it sounds
like your dad was, that's likecrucial to actually be being
somewhat successful in math.

Josiah (20:19):
Yeah, and you also brought up like preparing like
How homeschooling prepares youfor the world or for like higher
education and I actually endedup going to high school for high
school um so Like it wasn't thatI was falling out of love with
acting.
It actually was a high schoolspecifically for acting So you

(20:41):
would go, you'd do math,science, like your whole day,
and then the last hour, youwould do, uh, like acting
classes, instead of having anelective or something.
Um, And so I ended up doingthat.
And the thing that I wish I had,and I wouldn't say it's a fault
of my parents, but the thingthat I wish that I was more
prepared for was like grades andstandardized testing and things

(21:04):
like that, because it's a verypassive environment, even in the
classes that me and Noah used totake, like you could get a 50 on
every test and they would stillmove you to the next grade.
I mean, they would work morewith you than the other kids and
they would, you know, nurtureyou more.
There wasn't the same standardwhere, like, one test could ruin

(21:26):
your future and your progressionthrough the education system.
So when I got there and all of asudden I realized that I didn't
know how to take tests the waythat everybody else did, that
was a huge hurdle that, I'mgonna be honest, took me all of
high school to figure that out.

Jenève (21:43):
Yeah.
Which is like, that's like awhole, I feel like that's a
whole topic in and of itself.
Like um, like that, that uh,almost, you know.
Smartness gauge being your test.
Like, did you, did you actually,uh, absorb all the information
you needed to, like, prove it tous in this test?
And I think what's so weirdabout test taking is that it's

(22:06):
like such a specific context andit's always like in a way, like
you're timed or you're like,whatever, you're at your desk,
you're like locked in, it's onpaper, you're writing an essay.
Like, it's so, so not how youlearn.
Like in that more creative way.
And, but you have to like spitit out a different way.
It's like so frustrating.

(22:27):
Um, if you can't tell, I was a

Josiah (22:29):
Yeah, exactly.

Jenève (22:30):
I'm pretty, uh, I struggled with that, um, in
college.
Um, it, for me, it was likewriting papers when I felt like
our professor didn't do a goodjob at teaching us the
information was like, Why did Iwrite an entire essay on this?
And my friends were like, oh,yeah, like whatever.
I'll just like BS it.
I'm like, How do you do that?

(22:50):
I just don't like, What doesthat mean?
Um, I can't, I, I don'tunderstand so therefore I can't
produce That was an element of,that's like the dark side of the
test taking stuff is like, letme just like wing it.
How do I, how do I wing it andget by and get through this?
Um, yeah.

Noah (23:12):
it prompts you to just find easy members.
I mean, at least I was thinkinglike what you guys were saying,
like how you perceive yourselfbecause of the test taking
stuff.
And I think I struggled with ittoo, just, but it was like,
because I wanted to like fullyunderstand the concepts.
Otherwise it wouldn't all clicktogether in my mind.
So like, I couldn't just, like,I feel like so much of a test is
like, we're going to quiz you onlike these random facts, like

(23:35):
sporadic, like throughout thelesson, whatever.
But like, I feel like if theywere just like, how well do you
understand this concept, thisone part of it?
Like, I would have crushed that,but because it was like all
these disjointed facts and itwas just like, is the number six
or is it seven?
amoebas or whatever like that.
I was like, I don't really,like, I get the general gist of
it and everything, but, and Iunderstand what's going on, and

(23:58):
I think that was just like youwere saying, like those people
that can just BS it and get bywith a test or an essay I think
they were able to turn off theirbrain brain enough to just
remember like the

Jenève (24:12):
Just so ironic.

Noah (24:13):
whereas like I just have never been able to do that I've
always like but what are all theother levels and everything and
I wanted to fully understand itall and I think that's obviously
like pretty impossible whenyou're juggling like six
different subjects or whateverat the same time

Jenève (24:27):
Mm.

Noah (24:27):
It was like, man, cheating wouldn't make this so much
easier

Josiah (24:29):
Right.
Yeah,

Jenève (24:31):
Yeah.

Noah (24:32):
and not even worrying about trying to learn this
stuff, you know, which is notgreat.
But at least for me, that's howtests made me feel about the
information we were

Jenève (24:40):
mm mm.

Josiah (24:43):
I think college, that's what makes college a little bit
better because, and it'ssomething that's been talked
about all the time, but it'slike the high school system and
the way that high schools arestructured is all based around
the industrial revolution whenyou were preparing people to
work in factories.
And college is not structuredthat way.
College is structured as highereducation to pursue something

(25:05):
not so formal, you know, as likea factory job.
So Like, that was something thatI really benefited from when I
did eventually go to college wasyou weren't graded on taking
notes.
That was something that was hugefor me in high school is they
would subtract from your gradeif they saw you not taking
notes, and the way that my brainworks is if I'm writing down

(25:27):
every single word that a personis saying, I'm not actively
listening, and I still can'twrite down every single word.
So I'm missing, I'm like,writing broken phrases that I'm
not actually listening to andthen I would take the notes home
at night and I would go thisdoesn't mean anything to me like
I don't even know what welearned today and so that was

(25:47):
like when I got to college and Irealized that you could just ask
the professor to email you thepowerpoint like hey can you just
email me the powerpoint fromtoday

Jenève (25:55):
Yeah.

Josiah (25:56):
like

Jenève (25:56):
Yeah.

Josiah (25:57):
was a huge Unlocking that was huge for me and just
like sitting at the front of theclass and like engaging with the
professor and asking Like andmaking the class a conversation
so you remember it.
Um College allows for that in away that I think high school was
a little bit too rigid

Jenève (26:15):
hmm,

Noah (26:15):
Jeneve, did you feel, cause I 100 percent am on the
same page as Josiah with thiswhere like college was like,
this is great.
Cause if we're used to talkingto the teachers, it's because.
All the teachers were like ourfriends moms, you know, and
like, or like our mom.
And so we're just like, yeah,this is somebody I can talk to
or ask them questions andthey're not going to be like,

(26:36):
don't talk to me.
Like, or like, um, did you feellike that in college that you
were able to connect better withthe professors?

Jenève (26:45):
That's a really interesting one because I think
for me, I.
I had a very, um, I mean, Ithink this was more just a
personality thing.
I don't think this was likedrilled into me growing up, but
I was like, there's a hierarchyand my professor's over there
and I am over here.
And, um, there was definitelysome time where I was just like,

(27:06):
I just need to kind of likeyou're describing from high
school Josiah, like I need toget what I get from this and
hope for the best and that's it.
Um, it wasn't until, like, someprofessors that were really
encouraging, like, office hours,like, come and chat or whatever.
And I, I felt, I remember onetime, like, I felt like I was
cheating by, like, talking tothe professor more.

(27:28):
but yeah, I, I didn't, I don'tthink I felt as comfortable with
that right off the bat, but Igot there eventually.
Um, Yeah.
Did you guys, when you went tocollege, what was that
experience like?
I mean, Josiah, I know you wentto high school, so you had a
little bit more of a onboardingexperience, I think.
Like, for me, it was just, okay,going into the, the, education

(27:51):
system, like, let's go.
But, I'm curious what thatexperience was for you both.

Noah (27:57):
Going into college?
Yeah.
Um, uh.
For me, like going to art schoolwas super fun.
Um, I had a good experience,even though I don't think I
necessarily like going to art,getting an art degree is like
getting a degree in whatever Ifeel like.
Cause it's like, people are justlike, they're not like, Oh cool.

(28:19):
You have an art degree.
Great.
Now you can do art.
They're just like, okay, you hada degree.
That's all we really need toknow.
Like they don't really care thatit's in art I would say because
art isn't like.
It doesn't hold any like weightin most fields.
It's not like I was trained inart so I can do it.
Like, um, nor does it, I don'tthink it actually means that you

(28:40):
can do it, but personally, solike I would say, I wouldn't
necessarily recommend art schoolif you're going to, if you have
ways to go to like other artclasses and stuff and find
communities, like you couldeasily do that too.
But I did have a good experiencein it.
It's just a lot of money.
But, um, yeah.
But, uh, like, I don't think itwas worth like how much money

(29:01):
I'm still like paying off forit, you know, but,

Jenève (29:03):
I don't think any of us feel that way, but yeah.

Noah (29:07):
But, um, but you, you know, you're a kid, so you don't
know any better.
So you trust the people that aretelling you what to do.
But, um, but yeah, going intoit, I, I had a cool, I had like
a nice experience cause Iremember like our first art
classes, um, me and all of mystudents in the class, or at
least like the The smallersubgroup of the students in my

(29:29):
class that I ended up becominglike friends with.
And we would go through all theclasses together, I guess each
semester.
Um, we were all like the bestartists in our classes and our
high school groups, but we wereall different artists.
So it was really cool for all ofus to kind of come in thinking
we're like hot And then werealized like, Oh damn, like
you're really good.
And I never would have thoughtto do that.

(29:50):
And then like this other personis doing something really
interesting and that's reallycool.
So it's like, we were all like,all right, so we're all good at
this.
Let's then team up.
And this doesn't have to be likea competition or anything, which
it didn't really feel like mostof the time.
Um,

Jenève (30:05):
Mm.

Noah (30:05):
but I also remember feeling like I was a little bit
more prepared than some of thekids, uh, that were in college
too.
They're like being able tocommunicate with the professors
and like have.
Seeing them as just people thatyou can sit down and do office
hours with and talk to.
I never thought that we werelike equals and we never like

(30:26):
partied with the professors oranything weird like that.
But like, it was just like, Oh,I could talk to you.
I could ask you questions.
I could ask you for help, whichis like a huge thing,

Jenève (30:35):
Like you're a resource to me and I know that and we're
good with that.
Yeah.

Noah (30:39):
yeah.
Um, and that's what you're herefor.
Like you want us to succeed.
So kind of viewing it as that,as opposed to a lot of the kids
that had a tougher time.
They viewed them as like thejudge who was going to be
critical of their work and wasgonna try to be the wall that
prevented them from succeeding,you know?
Um,

Jenève (30:58):
Mm.
hmm.

Noah (30:59):
and also I think I was worried about social stuff, like
a little bit like we had socialinteractions, but I was like,
okay, now this is like the realworld where it's like anybody's,
like anybody could be here.
You know?
It's not like in the protectivebubble that we were in in our
homeschool groups, um, but.
Um, other than like not gettingall the references that of the

(31:22):
movies and TV shows that myparents didn't let us watch,
like, um, I felt like it waslike totally chill.
Like everyone, everyone wasfine.
Um, and I think that almostcomes more from your parents.
Like if they're super social orlike if they're social enough
that they, like, I think you getthat from your parents, like how

(31:43):
to talk to people a lot of.

Jenève (31:44):
Mm.
Hmm.

Noah (31:48):
Um, so yeah, it was, uh, it was a pretty smooth
transition.
Like I felt like, okay, I'm,once I, you know, got settled
in, I think I felt, um, goodabout it.

Jenève (32:00):
How about you, Josiah?

Josiah (32:01):
well for me, like, like I mentioned earlier, it was,
high school was not easy.
You know, I never failed aclass.
I never had to like repeat agrade.
Um, but I really didn't do wellor like reach my full potential
as a student.
And so, I got into a coupleacting schools, um, like musical

(32:21):
theater programs for college.
And I even got a fullscholarship to one.
But I ended up turning it down,because I didn't I don't know
what it was.
It was just, I guess I was burntout.
I had been doing it for so longand it's kind of like these
formative years where you'rekind of changing as a person
anyway at like 17, 18.

(32:42):
And I think I just, yeah, I justwas done for that time and I
just said like I'll go back toschool and I'll learn the other
side of production, you know,like everything about media
production and then I'll comeback into it as like a director
was what I thought I wouldeventually do with my life.
But I didn't get into goodcolleges with good scholarships

(33:05):
because I didn't do well in highschool.
So I got into a couple ofregular good schools, but we
just couldn't afford them like,um, so it's expensive.
So

Jenève (33:15):
So

Josiah (33:15):
I ended up at the local community college and I actually
have like an anecdotal storyabout this because my birthday
is late in the year, so I wasstill 17 on my first day of
college and I went to I go and Iwalk in and I'm already, you
know, not that you shouldn'tspeak poorly about community
college, but I was disappointedto be there, I guess I can say.

Jenève (33:36):
mm

Josiah (33:37):
and I walked in, I went to my English 101 class and I
sat down and I start talking tothe guy next to me.
And we're just like talking,like getting to know each other
a little bit.
And he's like, Oh, you lookyoung.
How old are you?
And I was like, Oh, I'm 17.
And he was like, Oh, what areyou, what are you even doing
here?
And I just explained, I wasabout to turn 18.
And I was like, well, how oldare you?

(33:57):
And he goes, Oh, I'm 24.
And I was like, Oh, like Iobviously I paused for a second,
but I was like, Oh, like, didyou pursue something else?
Did you take a couple of gapyears?
Like, what have you been up to?
And he was like, Oh no, I signup every semester since I
graduated high school, but Ijust can't keep the motivation.
And I end up missing enoughclasses that they just withdraw

(34:18):
me.
I was like, I thought about it.
I was like, for six years, he'sstill in English one.
And what I want to say off thebat is.
I hope that guy is doing thebest and I hope that he's really
happy in life and I wish nothingbut success for him.
But that was a huge moment for,that hit me like a train where I

(34:38):
was just like, I'm not gonna bethe, I'm not gonna be this guy.
I need to figure out like how todo school.
I can't just sit here and bebitter because school is a
little bit harder for me thanother people.
I can't become this and justlose myself because I've given
up on school.
Like, I need to figure this out.
Um, and so, I got reallydetermined, and that's when I

(35:00):
started finding those tricksabout, like, sitting in the
front of the class, asking forthe PowerPoint instead of taking
notes.
And, interestingly enough, isthat my brain, I'm sure that
there was moments where Inoticed it, but my brain
actually didn't calculate untilcollege that I had vision
problems.
So I never even realized that anaspect of school that was hard

(35:22):
for me was literally reading theboard.
And so I had told myself that Ijust didn't like to pay
attention, and paying attentionwas hard for me.
But I went to the eye doctor,just like, you go see every
doctor before you start college.
And he was like, oh yeah, youhave astigmatism.
And he was like doing the eyetest.
And he's like, you should beseeing all this.

(35:43):
And I find that so interestingbecause I never suspected that
for like a second until I wentto that

Jenève (35:49):
Well, cause you're living with that.
You're living with it, right?
So you just think that's how itis.
Wow.

Josiah (35:55):
Yeah.

Noah (35:55):
crazy.
Like the stories that we tellourselves when we're young, like
you really have to, I think,Guide kids in the right
direction because otherwiseyou'll come up with something
like that.
Like I just don't like payingattention It's like no you had a
stigmatism in your eye likeGeez, Yeah.
But that sounds like that guycame at you.
Oh, sorry, like the right timethough

Josiah (36:16):
Mm hmm.

Noah (36:16):
like because you were going into a kind of feeling
like One like I'm burnt out fromall the high school stuff and
then two like I'm not stokedabout being here so it could
have been so easy for you tolike just like Fly below the
radar and barely put in anyeffort, but then seeing that guy
was like, oh cautionary tale.
Damn.

Jenève (36:39):
with your kind of young first audition story where like
you were bummed out and you justlike, like got fired up and just
went all in and like took thatand went in a different
direction with it and made thatpositive for yourself.
Like that's really awesome.

Josiah (36:56):
you.
No,

Noah (37:03):
Jeneve.
Damn.

Jenève (37:06):
I just think that's cool.
I mean, I don't know if this isa personality thing, or, I mean,
it's always a little bit ofboth, right?
The nature and nurture thing.
But, um, I've always felt fairlyconfident, like, self esteem
wise, and it almost sounds likethe stories that you're talking
about, Josiah, too.
It's like you're, You like, wentfor it, and it didn't work out,
went for it, went for it again.
Like, you know, it just kept ongoing, and like, kind of similar

(37:27):
thing with Noah.
It's like, okay, like, I'm notgood at math, whatever.
I'm gonna dive into this artstuff, and then, sweet.
Like, you know, like, just goingfor it, and feeling like, you're
good.
Like, did you guys feel likethat most of your life, or how,
I don't know.
What's your take on that?
No.

Noah (37:49):
story.
You're missing a

Jenève (37:50):
ha Ha ha ha ha

Noah (37:52):
Good

Jenève (37:52):
Yeah.

Josiah (37:53):
that it's a common thing for like actors or artists or
something.
It's like your drive comes fromself loathing and it actually
comes from a certain level ofnegativity and And

Jenève (38:05):
Mm.

Josiah (38:06):
not being okay with failure isn't always, isn't
necessarily a positive thing.
Like, having that drive to makesure that you don't fail, for
me, came from a place of like,you're not good enough, so
figure it out.
It wasn't like, you got this.
It was like, you're not goodenough.
Like, you need to keep taking itto that next level and keep

(38:26):
figuring out a new trick andkeep studying harder.
Until you feel like you're goodenough.
And, I mean, now we're in our30s and I haven't reached that
point.
Like, I still have never lookedin the mirror

Jenève (38:37):
I mean.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
You're good.
You're good.
Ha Ha ha.
Oh man.
Now

Noah (38:47):
Do you talk to yourself a lot in the mirror?

Josiah (38:49):
No.

Jenève (38:50):
You talking to me?

Noah (38:51):
Josiah.
No, well, I was like, I waslike, do you say other things to
yourself in the

Jenève (38:54):
you did make it sound like, you said

Josiah (38:56):
No, I don't.
I talk to myself a lot ingeneral because I live alone and
I've lived alone for like, adecade or something.
And so, I do talk to myself alot, just like, in general.
Um, but it's not in the mirror.
I don't stand in the mirror Andtalk to myself.

Jenève (39:16):
Yeah, Not like, you

Josiah (39:19):
You know, like, like the Joker or something.

Jenève (39:21):
Get better.

Noah (39:22):
get your shit together.

Jenève (39:26):
Oh my god.

Josiah (39:27):
Oh, man.
Mm

Jenève (39:29):
Well, wow.
Like, thanks for being honestabout that, but that's like,
that is so real.
Like, just what, what is theinstigator for that change?
It's like, not always positive,right?
Like, it's like, I have to keepgoing or I have to, I have to
change this up.
Go at it

Josiah (39:45):
hmm.
And It's, I wouldn't say it's ahealthy, like, obviously you
want to do better in life andyou want to take steps in life,
but I, I will say that over thelast maybe like two, three
years, um, I have really triedto put that negativity aside
because it, like, the pessimismand the self loathing, like,

(40:07):
very quickly grows to a pointwhere you can't make any
Mistakes like you

Jenève (40:12):
Mm.

Josiah (40:13):
develop this narrative of, of course.
When something bad would happento me, I would just say, Of
course.
Of course that would happen tome.
Because that, it's me.
And I actually got to thatnegative of a place where I had
to sit down and be like, youneed to change your life, dude.
Like, you're not, you're notdoing good right now.
being too hard on yourself.
And I would say that actuallymaking the decision to do that

(40:37):
and stopping, like, letting goof this, like, pessimistic
artist side of my identity, oflike, you have to hate yourself,
um, has been one of the mostlife changing experiences ever,
because, like, I did, I went tocommunity college, I finished
it, I did really well, Itransferred to a four year
school, I studied mediaproduction like I wanted to, but

(41:02):
I was very caught in thatnegativity, and I really didn't
have much success in my 20sbecause I didn't really go after
things, um, because I was justso locked into, you know, this
negativity, and so it reallywasn't until I said, like, maybe
27, 28, I decide I really needto change my mindset.

(41:23):
And just in those like threeyears, my personal relationships
have better, been better.
Like my romantic relationshipshave been better.
I have a better job.
I have a nicer apartment.
I have two cats now.
Like everything all of a suddenjust changed when I decided that
I wasn't going to be a negativeperson anymore.
It was like karma or something.

(41:45):
Yeah.

Jenève (41:46):
Yeah.
Well, it's so, it's so amazing,like how Your, like, the
thoughts that you think, like,inform your beliefs and informs
your actions, right?
And just how you show up in theworld, and that sounds, it
sounds, from what you're saying,it almost sounds like that
shift, like, when you thoughtdifferently, you behaved
differently, and, like, youattracted different things, you

(42:08):
know, like, and better thingsfor yourself.
So, that's, um, that's amazing.
Good for you.

Josiah (42:12):
you.

Jenève (42:14):
Um, so Noah, do you hate yourself?
Hahaha Um, um,

Noah (42:26):
to hear you talk about that stuff too, because I think,
there was like a period when Iwas in high school where you get
into like the moody highschooler, like the
stereotypical, and I was liketrying to lean into it as an
artist and like draw, you know,like, like, creepy stuff and
like the Dark Knight just cameout so it's like the Joker and
everything So I thought it wasjust cool.
the later years of high schoolin the early years of college

(42:49):
there was some Just likePersonal drama and family drama
and stuff like that.
So that was like rough.
So that kind of put a dark cloudover things but Um Honestly, I
was such a people pleaser thatlike, if somebody threw down a
gauntlet, I, I was not like thecompetitive type.
So somebody who's like, youcan't do that.

(43:10):
I was like, all right, I guess Ican't do that.
I'm just going to do somethingelse.
You know?
Um, I was kind of more, Ilearned at an early age that
being like, go with the flow wasa little bit, uh, was a, I don't
know, was the right choice todo.
That's what I remember beingtaught.
Um,

Jenève (43:27):
like more frictionless, kind of.

Noah (43:29):
yeah.
And there was like four of us,like me and my three siblings.
So, um, digging in your heelsand trying to like fight for
your,

Jenève (43:38):
Does not get you anywhere.

Noah (43:39):
It's like, yeah, it's just not going to always happen.
You know, like we've got fourother, three other people.
With who all want to dig intheir heels too.
And so that doesn't really workout.
And I think I had the oppositeproblem that you had actually.
Like, I think I was like veryhopeful and optimistic and
assumed the best.
And.
the world isn't always likegoing to reciprocate that like

(44:02):
your, your, uh, um, what yourperception or your expectation
of it, you know?
Um, and I think it's led tobeing like let down or hurt or,
or just being manipulated orused And it's taken me a long
time to like not go into asituation, uh, with like the

(44:23):
rose colored glasses thinkingthat, um, everything's going to
go according to plan and workout perfectly and everything
like that.
I had to be like, okay, let'smanage expectations a little
bit.
I'm just not the type.
That if somebody threatens mewith something or or it's like
they're like if you're gonna getexpelled or whatever like that

(44:44):
if you don't pass this test orsomething like I Just shut down
when that happens.
Like I'm just like, all right Itsounds like you don't want me to
pass this thing, you know, likeif you're talking in that
language or so,

Jenève (44:54):
Like this door is shutting.
I'm just going to go findanother one to go through.
Like instead.
Yeah,

Noah (44:59):
stuff I don't think has ever really motivated me like
Trying to, I remember my boxingcoach, I, that one time, like,
he was just like trying to getthe combination right.
And this was like last year.
And I remember thinking, I thinkI even said it to him, but he
was just like, he's like, get itright this time or else I'm
going to make you do like 50pushups or whatever.
And I was like, I'm beinghonest, man.

(45:20):
Like I'm already trying the bestI can.
So you threatening that is justgoing to make me feel like this
is like, like, screw this.
I'm not going to do this.
And you know, like, I was like,I'm not motivated by you
threading me.
Cause I think in general, likeI'm, it's taken me a while to
like be less hopeful.
That sounds super dark, likedepressing.

(45:42):
But like, I've been in general,like, I'm like, I'm going to
show up.
I want to try my best.
And like, I have, like, I'm notgoing to, I want to do a good
job and I want everyone to belike on that same page.
But it's like, then you grow upand then you realize like, Oh, I
go into these places where like,People aren't happy with their
jobs.
So they're kind of likecomplaining a bunch and they're,

(46:03):
they're kind of underminingthings.
And, uh, there's politics andpeople are mad at these people
and stuff.
And it just, things got a lotmore complicated.
And I think I had to realize,um, that for me to succeed, I
had to take that side of theworld into consideration instead
of just getting, shutting downwhen things didn't work out.

(46:24):
Cause I thought they were goingto work out perfectly.

Jenève (46:27):
Well yeah, when you start at the top, it's like you
have nowhere to go but down.
Whereas like, I think Josiah,part of your stuff, it's like
when you're feeling really low,you could shift that and change
it into a positive thingafterwards if you, if you felt
compelled to, right?
Like, yeah, that is, that'sreally interesting.
Both are difficult, you knowwhat I mean?
Both suck in different ways,

Noah (46:48):
Like you just I you expected everything to go wrong
at one point I expectedeverything to go right and both
of those were like nah, that'sactually not true.
Jeneve, where do you fall withall this stuff?

Jenève (46:58):
I mean,

Noah (46:59):
just curious

Jenève (47:01):
uh, yeah, I, I mean, I definitely resonate more with,
uh, like joy from inside out.
Like just like we will just makeit work.
But, you know, what wasinteresting is as I got older, I
realized a lot of the time, um,I, I was either like, I was like
blind.
To the negative stuff.

(47:21):
Which sometimes was good andsometimes didn't help me out
very much.
Um, and actually, this startedhappening in my, like, uh,
college years where I realized,like, people thought that they
couldn't even be sad around me.
Because they were just like,you're not, like, you're You're
just not, you're not gonnacomprehend it, or like, I've

(47:42):
never gone through anythingdifficult before or something,
and I think that, um, thatreally moved me to like, okay, I
need to figure out how to, howto sit in my own negative
emotions sometimes, cause I havethem, you know what I mean?
Like, it's not like they're notthere.
I get like nervous or scared or,uh, Anxious about things, but I

(48:02):
just, the way I showed up in theworld was just always like,
Okay, we're good.
Like, we're pulling it together.
And I think part of that was anoldest sibling syndrome thing.
Like, we'll make it through.
Like, let's go.
Like, this is gonna be a greatday.
Like, let's do this.
Um, Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, andhonestly it wasn't until, um, I

(48:24):
started, like, therapy in my,like, mid twenties, and, uh, my
therapist, like, just let me.
And actually helped me be okaywith being sad for a while and
like not trying to be like, okayWell, let's make it better.
Here's the bright side or here'sthe what like let's just like
think like let's let's make youhappy Cuz that's best case

(48:45):
scenario It was like just likebe you're allowed to be here and
I think that that helped me showup for other people to just even
in daily life like just beinglike You know Emotionally
healthy enough to like let, to,to be open to other people
experiencing that through theirlife and not being like, Duh,
okay, let's go get ice cream,make you feel better.

(49:06):
You know, like something, Ithink that's like how I used to
be, you know.
Um, like, I don't know what todo with this.
Like, let's, um, yeah.
So, yeah, really interesting.
Like, okay, so we're having thiscool conversation about emotions
and processing and learningabout ourselves.
And I'm really curious, like,what that was like.
In your homes like growing up inhomeschooling, like did you feel

(49:29):
like your parents were able tolike help?
I don't know.
This word is weird, but likeshepherd your or guide you and
like that that those emotionalprocesses Um, Um,

Noah (49:41):
a big part of that homeschooling that people don't
consider enough of is like thelines being blurred between
teacher and parent.
Um, I feel like parents want tobe their kid's friend.
And it's like, that's like even,I feel like there's like
teacher.
And then there's the, causethat's like pretty professional,
like a relationship, you know?

(50:02):
I think when you get younger,it's like you have to kind of
adapt to more of the emotionalside, like high schoolers.
It's like, you're not like goingto super comfort them or
anything like that.
But like kindergarten, it'slike, they're like, there's such
a ball of emotions that that's abig part of the job Um, but
anyway, I feel like still as ateacher, we hold some strict
boundaries, you know, withwhat's appropriate and what's

(50:24):
not, and then you got likeparent and then like some
parents even try to push it evenmore to be friends, which is
like, that's kind of pushing ita little bit too far into the
comfort, comfortability, youknow, zone for that relationship
because that's a hard boundaryto delineate.
So I feel like, yeah, to do, togo from like teacher to like

(50:45):
friend,

Jenève (50:46):
The whole spectrum of adult in a kid's life.

Noah (50:49):
Yeah.
I feel like my mom would dothat.
that.
a little bit.
Like she was good at drawing theboundaries and being the
teacher.
Cause that was like so much ofher identity, um, before she had
kids.
Um, and then I think she woulddo the friend part and try to
like play games and have fun andstuff.

(51:10):
But I think that middle groundmight've been harder for her to,
like, it was easier for her tobe black and white and be on the
opposite ends of the spectrum.
Versus like, I think my dad wasa little bit more in the middle
of like being some, a sense oflike comfort and consoling for
the child and doing theemotional stuff.
Whereas my mom was like, wecould either have fun or we can
like work and get stuff done.

(51:31):
But like, my dad was likesomewhere in the middle.
So, but I also know that that'slike, that's why it's helpful.
At least like at my school, wehave two teachers and in most of
the classrooms and like, I'mdefinitely more of the artistic
emotional side and my co teacheris like a little bit more of
like she's got her timers andlike stuck and sticks to the
structure and the and thediscipline element of it which

(51:55):
admittedly like I'm not asnaturally inclined towards
whereas she's less inclinedtowards just being able to sit
down and talk to the kids.
Um, not that either of us arebad at either of those things
but it's just like we have aproclivity towards one or the
other side and I for growing upthat was Yeah, I think that's
kind of how it ended up with myparents, where my dad was a

(52:16):
little bit more on the emotionalside.
My mom was more on thestructured side.

Josiah (52:21):
Hmm.

Jenève (52:22):
Mmm,

Noah (52:23):
What about you, Josiah?

Josiah (52:24):
Well, I don't know.
It's, it's hard.
I don't even know that I'vethought about my opinions on
this, but I think that.
I wouldn't say that I felt likeI was friends with my parents.
I do, I do now that, like, we'reolder and I don't see them as
much, and a lot of ourcommunication is through phone
calls.
I genuinely feel like we'refriends now, but when I was

(52:45):
growing up, they were just myparents.
Like, I don't know, like, grownups are this otherworldly thing
when you're a little kid.
Like, I know I definitely didn'tsee them as a friend.
I saw them as, like,superheroes, you know, and like,
um, like, especially with mydad, like, doing math, like,
watch when you don't understandand you're not really great at

(53:07):
math, and then you watchsomebody that can, like, do it
off the top of their head.
It's like, that's a superhero.
And then he, it was, like, alsoa musician who could, like, pick
up multiple instruments and singand, like, um, so I didn't, I
looked up to them and I really,uh, saw them, like I said, as,
like, superheroes and thisotherworldly, like, thing.

(53:29):
But also it's really importantto note like with the whole
acting thing.
They were also my managers Sothere was like this other weird
relationship, too where theyreally cared about They and they
were really on top of that wholeprocess of like booking
auditions taking me to the thoseauditions getting me prepared
Uh, like I said, my dad was asinger So he like gave us voice

(53:51):
lessons essentially to likeprepare us

Jenève (53:53):
Oh, wow.

Josiah (53:54):
all that.
So it was a whole You Element.
It didn't really feel likefriends.
It felt just like mentors andparents, you know.

Jenève (54:02):
Wow.
That's beautiful.
I feel like, uh, my house had alittle more chaos in it.

Josiah (54:09):
Not that there wasn't chaos,

Jenève (54:11):
I You're

Noah (54:14):
didn't say.
Yeah.
we didn't even talk about how wemet too.

Josiah (54:18):
Yeah,

Jenève (54:19):
yeah! Yeah!

Noah (54:20):
I will say, I was thinking too, I claim to not be
competitive or that I just shutdown when, but it's like when
I'm in this position where Ican't shut down or, and it's
like, that's where it's sofrustrating for me, where like,
I can't just be like, you knowwhat?
I'm just going to remove myselffrom the competition and be
above this, that was, that wasmy experience when I first met

(54:42):
Josiah.
I was what?
Okay, I need to understand,yeah.
explain this more.
I was so competitive of himbecause he came in and which is
crazy too that our likefriendship really formed from
the what was it like fifth gradeto seventh eighth grade and then
you went into high school in NewYork so that was it which is

(55:05):
like looking back on that nowI'm like college kids are kids
but So we were like kid kids,you know, we were in high school
kids.
We were like, yeah, elementaryschool, middle school.
Yeah.

Jenève (55:17):
youths.

Noah (55:18):
and the fact that that was, that's the foundation of
our friendship.
Um, um, Jeneve, we knew eachother more like in high school
too.
Um, but yeah, but a big part ofthe foundation was like that age
when we were

Jenève (55:31):
Wait, so where's the, yeah, but tell me about the
competition part, like, where,where was

Josiah (55:35):
about hating me when you first met me, Noah.

Jenève (55:37):
Yeah!

Josiah (55:37):
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
I already know this story.
I already know

Noah (55:40):
I was going to say, I'm pretty sure we've already, yeah.
Um, no, cause it was, um, uh, Iwould say like, I was always
pretty social.
And so I think that like helpedyou have a lot of friends.
And so in our homeschool group,there were some kids that were
less social.

(56:01):
I'm trying to put this as niceas possible or that were just
like, um, um, So like, and Ialso had the benefit of it, like
my mom taught a bunch of classesand my younger sister was like
in, like she got bumped up alittle bit and I got bumped down
a little bit for our grade.
So we were in a lot of, so wehad, it was like we could tag
team friend groups and stuff.
So if it was like guys and girlskind of mixing, it was easy

(56:23):
because I had a sister that wewere just both of our friends
would kind of mix.
Um, anyway, so I was, I wasloving life, you know,

Jenève (56:32):
You like the life of the party

Noah (56:34):
yeah.

Jenève (56:34):
Like, is that what you, okay, okay.

Noah (56:36):
I mean, that's how I viewed it.
I don't know if everybody elsewould say that, but like, I
thought I was cool shit, uh,with my ponytail and, and all
that stuff.

Josiah (56:47):
Right.

Noah (56:47):
Uh, Anakin was so cool with his ponytail.
Everyone wanted to do that.
Um, but then Josiah comes in andhe's, um, Uh, he, he's, he's
from New York, so that adds somelike, uh, gravitas to it.
You know, some street cred.

Jenève (57:08):
The city.

Noah (57:10):
he's like doing auditions since he was little and
everything.
So he's like already got thiswhole other life, like
established.
He's got managers, your parents.
I mean, yeah, but, uh, um, andthen of course, like, He's
really good at guitar andeverything.
And so he could sing and playguitar too.
And so that's super bad ass,especially like that kind of

(57:30):
tracks into a long time thatholds a lot of, um, appeal.
Anyway, he's like a musician andhe's an actor from New York.
And then also to top it off,he's like a skateboarder and
he's got this cool, like surfer,like blonde hair and everything.
And I was like, Oh man.
I was like, who does this guythink he is blowing on my spot?

(57:51):
And I was just like.
And like, nobody said anythingbad about him.
Like everybody loved him.
Like he was just like, I thoughtI was friendly.
And then he was like even morefriendly.
Like he was funny and likesocial and like could talk, hang
with the older kids.
Cause you hung out with yoursister and like her friends, but

(58:12):
she was your older sister.
So it was like you were coolwith a lot of the older kids in
our community, our group And Iwas just like, Fuck this guy.
Um, I was like, this mother, Iwas like, he is just coming out
of here.
Like, um, and then I don't evenremember the turning point, but
all I do remember, I don't knowif you can speak on that.

(58:34):
Cause I had like, when westarted actually hanging out,
but I just remember I went fromhating, Like, Like, like,
loathing and just being jealous,honestly, like I didn't have
anything to hate.
I was just jealous, you know,and then all of a sudden it like
clicked in my head and I waslike, Oh, I see why everybody
actually likes him.
Cause he's actually a reallycool guy.
And like, he's like a goodfriend and like, he is fun and

(58:55):
he's funny and everything likethat.
And then in my memory, it's justlike, went from one to like, we
were best friends and we werelike inseparable and then we did
everything.
So, um, and then the rest ishistory.
So

Jenève (59:07):
right, Josiah's side.
Let's go.

Noah (59:08):
Yeah.

Josiah (59:10):
I will say that, like, Noah should be an actor because
I had no idea that he felt thatway about me at all.
I did have no idea.
I,

Noah (59:19):
Well, cause that would make me look like an asshole
then.
I would, I would become like thepetty, like mean girl of the
group.
So I was like, I have to becool.
This is what I'm talking about.
Like I couldn't compete.
So I just shut down and like,pretended like, Oh yeah.
He's so funny.
Yeah.

Josiah (59:34):
yeah, I don't remember.
Cause it's like, like, I didn'tperceive myself, of course I
always cared about being funny.
That's one thing that I will sayis like, I definitely inherited
from my parents.
Like, they're hilarious andevery story that they tell is
always the funny, from a funnyperspective.
So I instantly was a class clownanywhere I went, and, but a lot

(59:58):
of, like what Noah was saying, alot of people that fall into
that class clown role, they canbe mean to try to be cool.
And

Noah (01:00:05):
I remember wishing that you were more like that, that
you would do shit like that.
Because I was like, then atleast I could hate him for a
reason, but he's actually reallysweet.
And so like, he's not even

Josiah (01:00:16):
Yeah, there's,

Noah (01:00:17):
cool.
He hangs with the older kids,upperclassmen and everything
like that.
And he's like humble about it.

Josiah (01:00:22):
I just hate bullies.
That's what I never, like, asmuch as, you know, you try to be
funny, and like, as much as youcan be self deprecating towards
yourself, like, it was somethingwe talked about earlier, uh, I
don't even know if we wererecording, but that moment where
you try to say something in agroup of people, and it doesn't
land, and you're totallyrejected.
That, don't laugh, dude, that'sa, that's a devastating moment,

(01:00:45):
that's a devastating Ha ha

Noah (01:00:47):
the thing that didn't land and you guys didn't laugh at it.
You're like, that's just theworst thing to ever happen to
somebody.

Josiah (01:00:54):
ha

Noah (01:00:54):
And I'm just

Jenève (01:00:55):
to you.

Noah (01:00:56):
Yeah.

Josiah (01:00:56):
that is like, when somebody, um, is like trying to,
ha ha, be, You know,condescending, or like trying to
make you feel unfunny, or just,I have no room for bullying, so
that's why I always try to tellmyself, like, to be the
opposite.
So, like, if somebody's talkingto you about their interests,

(01:01:19):
don't tell them that it's dumb.
Like, look them in the eyes,tell them that it's cool.
It might be cool, ask them morequestions about it.
You know, and so, yeah.

Noah (01:01:28):
But you'd make me feel funnier and cooler.
And I was like, God, I want to

Jenève (01:01:38):
I was like, and

Noah (01:01:38):
bad.
Yeah.

Josiah (01:01:39):
It's

Jenève (01:01:40):
I was just going to say, and that's how Josiah won Noah
over, because Noah's like, oh,okay, I'm cool, I'm cool.

Josiah (01:01:46):
Yeah, but

Noah (01:01:48):
And then Jeneve's over here laughing at all my jokes
all the time.
And she's secretly like, it'snot that funny.

Jenève (01:01:53):
Oh my gosh, don't bring that

Noah (01:01:56):
I share that?
No,

Jenève (01:01:57):
Yeah, sure, no, no, you can, you can.
It's,

Noah (01:02:00):
We talk,

Jenève (01:02:01):
but.

Noah (01:02:03):
super, it's like a deep cut, you know?

Jenève (01:02:05):
It is, it is

Noah (01:02:06):
we could cut this later, but, um, Jeneve's reaction,
excuse me, is sometimes moreextreme than she actually feels
or like not even, no, no, noteven that.
she was like, no, I do think.
The things that people say arefunny, but my reaction is like
so Like I laugh so hard and likeIt's like so extreme that they

(01:02:28):
think that they're like so funnyand she's like well I don't
think that you're objectivelyfunny.
I just find it funny personallybut like don't actually

Jenève (01:02:37):
I

Noah (01:02:37):
my laughter as like a pat on the back like you should have
done like

Jenève (01:02:42):
it's terrible.
It's so bad.

Noah (01:02:45):
when people are like, Oh wow, she thinks I'm so like, or
like guys will be like, Oh mygosh, she, she's like totally
digging me and everything likethat.
And she's like, no, like,

Josiah (01:02:52):
that's just how you are,

Noah (01:02:53):
to laugh

Jenève (01:02:54):
I feel like Well, you know what, like, started this is
because I saw a photo of myselflaughing, or a video.
Of like, like laughing in agroup of people and we all were
finding something funny and Ididn't like I thought I found it
same funniness level as theother people in the group, but
i'm like Like i'm just like alot like the and now and then I
realized I was like, oh my goshThis is what, like, people just

(01:03:17):
think, they're like measuringthis reaction, like, Jeneve
thinks this is super funny.
Like, I'm just like, uh, I thinkI, I think I just throw my head
back too much when I laugh iswhat's going on here.
Like, it's just, it's, oh mygosh, yeah.

Noah (01:03:32):
I just realized, I think you guys did meet too.
Cause when you said the headlaughing back, I was like, It,
like, brought me back to some ofthe old pictures of us, and I
think I had a birthday partythat you guys were both at.

Jenève (01:03:44):
That would

Noah (01:03:44):
I sent you the photo of it, Josiah.
The one of us.
Yeah.
I'm gonna try to find it rightnow.

Jenève (01:03:48):
Oh,

Josiah (01:03:49):
picture where, um, somebody's giving me bunny ears
from off camera.
I still don't know.
It's, it's just their arm coming

Jenève (01:03:56):
You don't know who it

Josiah (01:03:57):
I still don't know to this day who that is.

Jenève (01:04:01):
That was like such a thing.
Is that like a kid thing stillto this day?
Like, I don't know.
I always wonder like, has thatlike transcended generations
where it's just like, we'restill like, Yeah, it's like
this, just stuff like, right?
I know, so

Noah (01:04:15):
those Jokes with kids, like, they go through the same
cycles.
Like, right now, all thekindergartners think, like, the
little, like, poop jokes arefunny, and they're like, Oh, Mr.
Poop! Haha! Bird! You know?
And you're just like, That's noteven your name! They think it's
so funny, and then, first grade,it's like, not funny at all
anymore.

Jenève (01:04:33):
Oh my gosh, um, well, okay, well you're

Noah (01:04:36):
were you gonna say?
Yeah.

Jenève (01:04:37):
I mean, I forgot, but that's okay.
Oh, we have to talk about like,Friends.
In homeschooling because I don'tknow about you guys but one of
the like questions I always gotwas like how do you make friends
and it's like this whole thingand and it's it's funny because
even as we're talking I'm notlike Oh my god, Josiah, you had
friends?
Like, that's crazy.

(01:04:58):
How'd you how'd you find them?
Like, Um, I'm just curious,like, how much of a priority
that was to in in your in yourfamily life, and and for your
parents, like, to have you,like, meet people and be in
those situations.

Josiah (01:05:16):
I think that my parents were very proactive about it.
Like the the homeschool groupthat I met Noah in wasn't the
first one that I was in.
Um, they would find all thesecool fun things for us to do.
So there was a homeschool groupbefore that with a whole other
group of kids that I think onlylasted like three, four months
and then Some of us branched offand stayed together and she

(01:05:41):
would just find things for us todo.
Like she found this guy, I stillwish I could find this guy to
this day, but there was a guywho lived on like a nature
reservation.
And there was like a littlewelcome center there with kind
of like a mini museum.
And so for a couple years, thatwas our science classes.
We would just go to this naturereservation and he would teach
us stuff about like biology andthe world and like, We'd go,

(01:06:04):
like, see deer and owls and,like, all these different
things, and we made friendsthrough that.
Like, he had a whole group thatwould come there, like, a little
class, and so that was how Imade my first friends at, like,
five, six.
And then, when I started acting,you're just around other kids
all the time.
Most of them aren'thomeschooled.

(01:06:25):
So I had a very Naturalupbringing when it came to
socializing when it came to Iwasn't really sheltered to just
homeschool kids

Jenève (01:06:34):
yeah, Did you ever feel, like, out of place, like, as a
kid?
Or was that just, like, normal?
Like, were you like, whoa!You're a public, like, you're
experienced meeting a publicschooler or anyone who wasn't
homeschooled.
Was, did you see that in anytype of way?
Or was that

Josiah (01:06:47):
well, I just noticed how much judgment there was towards
homeschooling I it wasn't that Inoticed people being so
different.
I more noticed people beingsurprised that I wasn't weird
and that I wasn't likedifferent, you know?
Um,

Jenève (01:07:05):
hmm.

Josiah (01:07:07):
yeah, like meeting somebody from, like I said, it
happened all the time.
I think the disconnect for mewas when I got to a certain
point, um, like 10, 11, Istarted primarily acting in
things where I was the only kid.
And so it definitely created aweird disconnect for me even
with other students and hangingout with people my age because I

(01:07:29):
was used to acting like an adultall day and just like
Interacting in like a moreserious way with adults all the
time So that was hard for me tolike let myself be a kid when I
was around other kids,

Jenève (01:07:43):
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah, I think like It'sinteresting that you bring up
those different ages like ininteracting with people and
Comfortability with adultsbecause that was something I
just remember even as a kid whenwhen my mom was talking to other
people or telling Them abouthomeschooling or whatever.
They would always say like, oh,I just love that Your kids can
they're like comfortable to talkto whoever like they're just

(01:08:04):
they can communicate with adultsand little kids and like the age
range like was, didn't matter,you know, when it came to just
interacting with people.
Did you feel like you missed outon being a kid ever?

Josiah (01:08:17):
because I don't know if this was, I feel like it's maybe
every generation, but I wasalways obsessed with being
older.
Like, my whole life until I wasprobably 21, it was always about
those milestone ages.
So, I was definitely in a rushto grow up once I got to like
12, 13.
I wanted to be like a teenagerso badly.

(01:08:38):
Um, like, you know?
You just, that's what every TVshow you

Jenève (01:08:42):
Yeah, we all wanted that.

Josiah (01:08:43):
get to like 11, 12, every TV show you watch is about
a kid who's like 16.
And he has all these freedomsand responsibilities and like he
gets to dress the way he wants.
Like all these different thingsthat you're not

Jenève (01:08:54):
Like I want to drive a car and get to like go to my
friend's house by myself.
Like, oh my gosh.
That's so funny.
Yeah.
So you mentioned.
Like, the, like, judgmenttowards, like, being a
homeschooler, Josiah, like,feeling like, oh, like, or, or

(01:09:17):
the surprise of, like, whyaren't you weird?
Um, along those lines, do youbelieve that, like, being
homeschooled means that you'resheltered?
Like, what's your response tothat?

Josiah (01:09:32):
I would say that it can lead to you being more
sheltered.
I know Noah and I 100 percentgrew up with kids that were
purposefully sheltered as muchas possible and purposefully
shown as little of the world andsocializing as possible.
Um, and, Yeah, it's a whole, meand Noah grew up with people

(01:09:55):
that don't even believe indinosaurs.
So it's a whole, not even,that's not a joke.

Jenève (01:10:01):
Yeah.
No, I was like,

Noah (01:10:03):
Like, the stereotype does exist, for sure.
Like, I feel like we've seen theextremes of

Josiah (01:10:08):
it's something, it's not something that people lay on
homeschooling that doesn't existat all.
There are kids that are sociallylacking because they weren't
exposed to that enough.
And so they don't.
know how to have thoseinteractions and they don't
really gain what you're supposedto gain from those interactions,
you know, because they're sosort of like closed off.

(01:10:30):
So I would say it's apossibility.
It's a risk.
But if you are proactive aboutsocializing your kid, they'll be
fine, you know?

Jenève (01:10:40):
Yeah.
And how, like, so some ways Ithink, um, for me, some ways
that my mom did that was similarto what sounds like your mom did
too.
Josiah just like signing you upfor things and finding things to
do, and like just getting outthere, getting outside, like
doing like just.
Just being in the world andgoing and living life, um, but
are there, do you think there'sanything in particular, like,

(01:11:01):
especially when you reminisceabout, like, there's definitely
other people that were moresheltered, like, what would you
say the difference was, like,fundamentally?
With like, how, how were youless sheltered than those other
kids?
Like how did that come to be inyour mind?

Josiah (01:11:16):
Hmm.
Well, my parents weren'tsheltered growing up.
My parents grew up normal lives.
They, you know, starting at like11, 12 years old, they'd go
wander into town and just hangout for the day.
Like, they came from thatgeneration of like, just be back
before it's dark.
Um, you know?

(01:11:37):
And

Jenève (01:11:38):
Yeah, yeah.

Josiah (01:11:39):
So much more.
There was no stranger dangerback then.
It was like, you know, everybodywas just kind of let their kids
out and just said come back whenyou're supposed to so Yeah, I
think,

Jenève (01:11:53):
Noah, do you have any like,

Josiah (01:11:54):
Come back into this conversation,

Jenève (01:11:55):
yeah,

Josiah (01:11:57):
your picture is not, your picture is not going to
change the world, Noah.
If we've met each other before,that's great, but

Noah (01:12:05):
no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's, this is actually going tobe so epic.
can I share my screen to showyou guys?
Cause this is actually freakingamazing.
Like groundbreaking this photo.
Um,

Josiah (01:12:16):
the thumbnail for the

Noah (01:12:17):
yeah.
Okay.
It, no, it literally is.
Okay.
Okay, can you guys see this?

Josiah (01:12:27):
Aw, that's not a picture of us.
Whatcha doing?

Jenève (01:12:29):
adorable.
I

Noah (01:12:32):
building up the suspense.
I'm, I'm, I'm calling back fromlike three year old Josiah
writing a whole story with hisNinja Turtles and Spider Man.
I'm like, this is, we have a, wehave an arc here, right?
So I have my card that whicheverybody you put it on your
back and you write down thethings how you

Jenève (01:12:48):
I

Noah (01:12:48):
the person.
Yeah, you guys were both here atthis party, right?
So I ruined the picture byflipping my card because I
thought it was like cool to dothat, you know, which clearly
I'm the epitome of cool rightover here.
Um, then here's Josiah.

Josiah (01:13:02):
oh.

Noah (01:13:04):
So cool.
Like with this arrow pastels tohoodie and everything.

Josiah (01:13:09):
Zoom in.
I wanna see what people wroteabout me.

Noah (01:13:11):
Yellow hair, weirdo, boy,

Josiah (01:13:15):
you remember

Noah (01:13:15):
guitars,

Jenève (01:13:16):
kid.

Josiah (01:13:17):
you remember what?
you wrote?
Noah?
Which one was yours?

Jenève (01:13:20):
Yeah.
I love that there's boy onthere.
You're just a boy.

Noah (01:13:27):
Do you remember what you wrote, Josiah or Jeneve?

Josiah (01:13:30):
on yours?
No, I didn't even remember thatwe did this

Noah (01:13:35):
I'm trying

Jenève (01:13:35):
I remember, I remember this activity for sure,

Noah (01:13:38):
Do you remember what

Jenève (01:13:39):
yeah, I don't know.
Emo.

Josiah (01:13:43):
Oh God.
I was super emo

Jenève (01:13:46):
I mean, the picture says it all, I think.

Noah (01:13:48):
Was his pinky pink pie pink?
And then they switched it to apink marker halfway through the
last pink.

Josiah (01:13:54):
it's because I had a pink skateboard at the time.

Jenève (01:13:57):
Oh,

Noah (01:13:58):
I feel like I might have wrote friend, because that looks
like the most like myhandwriting, unfortunately.

Josiah (01:14:03):
one?
Pinky Pink.

Noah (01:14:05):
Which, no, the one that says friend.

Josiah (01:14:07):
Oh, okay.
That's sweet.

Jenève (01:14:09):
that's so cute.

Noah (01:14:11):
I don't know what else I would have written.
Okay, so then here's Jeneve's,

Jenève (01:14:13):
Oh no.
Oh no.
Oh

Josiah (01:14:17):
god!

Jenève (01:14:18):
my god!

Josiah (01:14:19):
Let's see what, what did people

Noah (01:14:20):
Somebody wrote seasy?
Did they mean sassy?
Somebody wrote cool, awesomesinger.
Uh, wait, nice, great friend,

Josiah (01:14:28):
CZ.

Noah (01:14:29):
bird girl.
Why were you bird girl?

Josiah (01:14:31):
Bird girl.

Jenève (01:14:32):
saying?
Oh, Bird Girl was from because Iwas in, um, an off Broadway
performance of Seussical Jr.
And the bird girl was one ofthe, um, I'm wearing that
Seussical shirt.
I think that's why someone wrotethat.
Cause, like, it was related tothat show.

Noah (01:14:49):
did somebody write, does this say laughs?

Jenève (01:14:52):
Pfft,

Noah (01:14:53):
That would be so funny.
All right.
So.

Josiah (01:14:57):
it says

Jenève (01:14:58):
I like that.

Josiah (01:14:59):
I feel like it says cats.

Jenève (01:15:02):
Yeah.

Noah (01:15:03):
Past?

Jenève (01:15:04):
This is

Josiah (01:15:04):
Oh

Noah (01:15:05):
Yeah.
Okay.
So we got Josiah, me and you,right?
So then here's the picture,

Jenève (01:15:11):
Do we need a drumroll?

Noah (01:15:13):
Yeah, okay, here it is.
You guys are sitting right nextto each other.
There's

Jenève (01:15:16):
Oh my gosh.

Josiah (01:15:18):
Oh wow.

Noah (01:15:20):
Yeah,

Jenève (01:15:21):
god.

Noah (01:15:22):
you guys are chilling, right?
Not interacting at all, right?
Okay, look at this last photo.
This last photo is the photothat I sent to Josiah that he
has in his apartment right now.
Um, look who's freaking doingbunny ears.
It's you, Jeneve!

Jenève (01:15:37):
Oh my god! This is epic! Oh my god!

Noah (01:15:48):
Josiah mentioned that like an hour ago.

Jenève (01:15:51):
Wow!

Noah (01:15:51):
yeah, somebody's doing bunny ears.
Is

Jenève (01:15:52):
Full circle!

Josiah (01:15:54):
is something that I've thought about for 20 years.
Oh my God.
Not 20 years because I only gotthe picture like five years ago,
but that is crazy.

Jenève (01:16:02):
me!

Noah (01:16:02):
with all of us

Josiah (01:16:03):
Oh my

Noah (01:16:04):
This is Jeneve's head.
But look at your cutout so hecould never have known.

Josiah (01:16:08):
I never would have known.

Jenève (01:16:11):
Wow.
Guys, I feel like this is one ofthose shows, like the Unsolved
Mysteries, like, but it wassolved, so.
Wow.

Josiah (01:16:22):
That actually is very cool.

Jenève (01:16:23):
Epic.
That was,

Josiah (01:16:25):
That was worth the five minutes, Noah.
Sorry.

Noah (01:16:27):
was I know.

Jenève (01:16:30):
Yeah,

Noah (01:16:30):
No, I

Jenève (01:16:31):
while we were getting into like, religion and
education.

Noah (01:16:33):
long.
Yeah.
But I was like, Oh my God, it'sher hand.
And you said that.
Yeah.
Oh my God.

Jenève (01:16:40):
That's how your eyes are like getting bigger as you're
like

Noah (01:16:46):
I think, I think I realized it when Josiah said
something about my parents.
And I think he was like, Oh, didI say something offensive about
your parents?
Cause I was like, But I wasn'tlistening at all.

Jenève (01:16:59):
That is amazing.
Wow.

Noah (01:17:03):
Oh, so now it's just I and we confirmed.
Is it still in your apartment?

Josiah (01:17:06):
I still have that picture.

Noah (01:17:07):
Yeah, so you have a picture of all three of us in
your

Josiah (01:17:10):
There we

Jenève (01:17:10):
Wow.

Noah (01:17:12):
hand doing bunny ears.
And

Josiah (01:17:21):
That's great, because I,

Noah (01:17:22):
now we're doing a podcast together.
We got to do a before and afterpicture.

Josiah (01:17:26):
don't remember that day that well, for some reason.
I have a really good memory, butI don't.

Jenève (01:17:31):
I think your, your hood was too like.
Yeah,

Josiah (01:17:35):
I think I was too cool.

Jenève (01:17:38):
you're like, I don't want people to know I'm here.
So

Noah (01:17:41):
yeah,

Josiah (01:17:41):
was super obsessed with having my bangs like halfway
down my eyes.

Jenève (01:17:47):
like, right.
So that you're like eyelids liftthem up when they,

Josiah (01:17:51):
But I never did that thing so

Noah (01:17:53):
yeah,

Jenève (01:17:54):
that's good.
Yeah.
Nice.

Noah (01:17:55):
god.

Jenève (01:17:58):
Wow.
man.

Noah (01:18:00):
Okay.
What were you guys

Jenève (01:18:01):
and reel it in.
like, no, you can probably speakon this a little bit better, but
I feel like the posture forlearning is so much better if
you have an open mind.
Yeah.
And if you're not like shuttingthings off because you're like,
nope, that doesn't match up withlike what I know.
And that particular version offaith based education, where

(01:18:22):
it's like, I'm only going totell you about what we believe
in, doesn't Jive with let memake sure my kids like learn The
most they can or in the best waythey can or be in the best like
educational environment aspossible is really fascinating

(01:18:44):
to me because I think a bigadvantage of homeschooling that
could be an advantage is thatyou get to like, you get to
explore.
You get to let your kids exploreAnd you can adapt your
curriculum to your kids,depending on what state you're
in and all that stuff, but like,that freedom and that, like,
being able to encourage andenable curiosity is such, in my

(01:19:06):
opinion, a wonderful thing abouthomeschooling.
And that doesn't, that doesn'tmatch with, with the, with that,
like, kind of rigid, faith basedside, so.
Yeah, I have a hard timereconciling that sometimes.

Noah (01:19:20):
No,

Jenève (01:19:20):
I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

Noah (01:19:23):
like, I think you, what you were saying, like really, I
think that's like basic, likeI'm trying, uh, what you were
talking about being curious andbeing open minded and everything
and how that affects learning.
I, as you were talking about it,I was like, that kind of
summarizes the entire struggleof like teaching kindergarten,
which is the age I'm teachingright now, is like, all they

(01:19:44):
have to do is just be open todoing the thing.
we're not teaching them any likephilosophical or theological
things, like we're just teachingthem the alphabet.
But like, it's, it's their, Mindthat is like, this is hard.
I can't do this.
This is different.
I don't want to do this.
This is this.
I don't want to, it's like,they're just judging the things
that we're asking them to do.
And if you're just like, sure,I'm going to try this.

(01:20:07):
and there's studies that showthat like, when your brain is
playing, you learn like it's,your brain is more receptive to
new information when it'senjoying the process of it, you
know?
So, so much.

Jenève (01:20:20):
Mm.

Noah (01:20:21):
Uh, the focus is like making this an enjoyable
process, like doing fun videos,making it like an activity,
showing them a schedule.
And we have like a little rollerskate that shows them the
schedule and goes across thebottom of the floor, like on
the, uh, of our timeline of theday, like the activities.
it's all just to kind of likeease them into the learning
because if the brain isresistant to different things or

(01:20:43):
new things, It's just, nope,shuts down.
It's like a steel wall you can'tget through.
And so that is kind of like thewhole struggle.
And so when it comes to likereligion if you're censoring
information so that peoplearen't getting the whole story,
you're not teaching them to beopen minded or to be receptive
to new information.
You're just teaching them thisis the one right thing.

(01:21:04):
And.
You're kind of not practicingwhat you're preaching.
Like you're telling them to beopen minded to the information
that you want them to learn, butnot any other information, you
know?
There's like a great quote inTed Lasso when he was saying the
difference between like bulliesand like people that are able to
be emotionally mature are theones that are, it's like, you
could either be curious orjudgmental.

(01:21:25):
And he was like, his bullies,they thought they knew who he
was.
And so they judged him and theywere like, we're going to treat
you this way, basically.
Whereas he was taught to just becurious.
Be like, why is the bully doingthat?
Like, why, like, why are they inpain that they need to inflict,
like, like to ask questions andto be open minded.
Um, and so now one of myfavorite qualities in people is

(01:21:50):
people that are like curious andjust inquisitive.
Um, but I, I, do you see whysome parents are a little bit
cagey with that stuff too,because when you let in things,
you let in things that sometimesaren't ideal, or sometimes they
go against or challenge what youbelieve in everything, and I
think people like to feel safeand secure, so.

(01:22:13):
It makes sense, but ultimately,I'm like, I, especially with
like my artist brain, I'm like,like we, my artist brain is
like, has I've learned in likedoing, being creative and stuff.
It's like, it's all about justthrowing it all out onto the
table.
Let's look at it all and thenpick what works.
But if you're like in abrainstorming session and you're
like, well, that's a stupididea.
That's dumb.

(01:22:33):
Like that won't work because ofX, Y, Z.
It's just like, nobody's goingto want to throw out any more
new ideas.
But if you're just like, okay,let's see.
What if?
It's like, I mean, you guys knowfrom acting, right?
Like the yes and, It leads todiscovery as opposed to just
saying

Jenève (01:22:49):
Dead ends, like, yeah.
Mm.
Mm.
so some people homeschool for,you know, purely religious
reasons.
Some people are homeschoolingbecause they just want to show
you every, as much of the worldas they can.
Um, can you guys think of anyoneelse that you met or that you
knew or that you've heard of, oflike kind of motivations for

(01:23:10):
homeschooling

Josiah (01:23:11):
think that it's some, it's like demographics that
we've already kind of brushedon.
You know, I think that there'speople that really homeschool to
take away that free thinkingcreativity and to sort of like
streamline their kid to be,think exactly what they want
them to think and grow up to beexactly who they want them to

(01:23:33):
be.
And so that's one type ofhomeschooling that definitely
happens.
Um, and it's not necessarilytied to religion or one
religion.
that's the parents themselves.
Um, but I think that what you'llfind is, again, something that
we've brushed on is parentsseeing, uh, a possibility of

(01:23:57):
freedom and of like a more of anopen environment to express
yourself and sort of Learn theway you learn.
And this is something that wediscussed about my years in
college and high school is like,I don't learn the way that
somebody would stereotypicallytell you to learn, everybody
would tell you write down asmuch as you can.

(01:24:17):
Um, like, and

Jenève (01:24:21):
And that wasn't

Josiah (01:24:21):
no, it, it, it sort of held me back in a way.
And, but I had that mindset frombeing homeschooled of like, You
know, like, MacGyver.
Like, I'm gonna figure out, evenif I have to put together these
parts that don't evennecessarily fit, I'm gonna
figure it out.
How I learn, and how I can dowell.

(01:24:43):
Um, and I think that that's whatmost parents would hope their
kids take away fromhomeschooling, is an ability to
think freely and to innovate,you know?

Jenève (01:24:57):
Yeah.
That's really well put.
Mm.
Mm.

Josiah (01:25:02):
What about you, Noah?

Noah (01:25:04):
yeah, I think, I think, uh, some parents just are trying
to shelter their kids and somepeople just do it because they
want to travel.
Like we actually almostrecommend that to one of my
students because the parentslike to travel a lot.
And so it's like, yeah, thatwould work better for
homeschooling because taking akid out of the classroom and
then into the classroom forthree days and then going back,
like that's just going to throwoff their whole, um, rhythm.

(01:25:28):
And so that those people, like,even if they're not great
homeschooling parents, likethat's still probably better
than being in a classroom for afew days and then like falling
behind and everything likethat's, you know, um,

Jenève (01:25:42):
never thought of that one.
That's interesting.

Noah (01:25:44):
yeah, there's also a lot of like really cool, like remote
learning too now.
out school is like a reallygood, like one that my cousin
teaches on where people likehomeschooling now looks a lot
different where, um, You couldhomeschool your kids, have co
ops where you meet with peoplein person, but then also have
specialists all across thecountry teaching a remote, like

(01:26:06):
a virtual class to your kids.
So you could get like theseexperts more than just the
people in your neighborhood,which is really cool.
On top of, like, the reason thatwe already said, like, my mom
ended up, like, I think as shegrew as, like, a homeschooling
teacher, she was able to adapt,um, the curriculum that I was
doing for my needs, you know?

(01:26:27):
So, like, she just had me do alot more art stuff, because she
knew that I, like, was drawn tothat.
Um, and That was really cool,because you can then pivot more,
whereas in a school you reallydon't get to choose what your
kid is learning, like aside frommaybe high school where you get
to pick some classes.

Jenève (01:26:45):
Mm.

Noah (01:26:47):
So I think that worked out well for me, because they also
have done studies where it'slike, if your kid is struggling
in one subject and excelling inanother subject, and you have
the option to sign them up for asummer school program, It's way
healthier or help more helpfulfor them to sign up for the one
that they're already good at andhave them like excel

Jenève (01:27:05):
That's so counterintuitive, but.

Noah (01:27:08):
Yeah.
because honestly, they'reprobably gonna end up just hate
learning in general If you signthem up for the one that they
don't like and force that forcethat on them, I think as we
learn more about childhooddevelopment we We're realizing
that Raising a kid is not like aone size fits all and educating
a kid is definitely not.
And

Jenève (01:27:26):
Mm.

Noah (01:27:28):
ultimately it's like, you have to see how the kid is
responding in this situation,whether or not you want to do
homeschool or not homeschool andsee what might be the best fit
for them.
But it might be different fromeach of your kids.
Like me and my siblings all havedifferent perspectives on how
much we liked homeschooling andit definitely makes things more
complicated, more complicated.
Because you can't just use aformula, but I don't know, this

(01:27:52):
is an, I mean, the way I teach,I'm like very big on that, where
it's like each kid, especiallyeach artist is individual and
unique and has their ownartistic voice.
And so that's something that'snever been seen by the world
before.
So I think our job as teachersis to help encourage them to be

(01:28:12):
The best version of, them,because if you make them the
best version of somebody elsethey're not really going to
excel.

Jenève (01:28:19):
Mm.

Noah (01:28:20):
I think people in general thrive when they feel like
they're able to be.
fully themself.
Um, so I think homeschoolingallows for a lot of that, which
is great.
But yeah, there's also kids thatlike thrive in like public
school.

Jenève (01:28:37):
yeah, Yeah.
100%.
I, and what's interesting aboutwhat you just said, it's like
that, that, um, kind of mindsetand like the, experience of a
kid, like the psychologicalelement and like what you were
talking about earlier, Josiah,about math and being like
getting to this place whereyou're like, I don't like math.
And if you're in that headspace,it's just like, it just makes it

(01:28:58):
that much harder to, tounderstand it.
Right.
Um, I know we've been talkingfor a while, so I want to, I
want to like wrap up with, uh,if you had, like, if you could
give any advice to, like, a kidcurrently being homeschooled or
a parent, what advice would yougive?
And you can take a minute.

(01:29:19):
We don't need to, like, yeah.

Noah (01:29:23):
Ah, don't worry about it.
You're not going to remember anyof it anyway.
Even the cool birthday partiesthat you went to.

Josiah (01:29:28):
How dare you?
You just used your advice totake a shot at me.

Noah (01:29:33):
to be, no, No, a real piece of advice for a
homeschooler kid, honestly, Iwould say, like, be curious and
explore, and genuinely, like,don't take it so seriously,
because I think the older youget, the more you try to, hold

(01:29:56):
on to that, you know, cause Ithink it's easy to lose that
side and get serious into like,well, wait Where is my church?
Like I think that's all a lot ofparents think about that, too
It's like they're like they'rethinking like I want to bring my
kid to this kindergarten becausethis will lead to this future
and then this Will lead to thatand blah blah blah, Like, I had
to fly across the country torealize that I wanted to be a

(01:30:16):
teacher, which is like, it wasright under my nose the entire
time.
just be open to whatever, likebe open to the experience that
you're in, um, and always kindof, I guess, be looking to what
your gut or your instincts aretelling you, like pulling you
towards, you know, because

Jenève (01:30:32):
mm.

Noah (01:30:33):
when I did things because I thought this was going to help
my future, you know, or like, Ithought this is strategic or
anything like that.
Um, you end up basing thosethings off of hypothetical
things of like, this issomething that happened in the
past, or this is something thatI think I'll want in the future.
You know, like I want thiscareer in the future, so I'm
going to start to set up my lifelike this.
But it's like in the moment,right?

(01:30:55):
What is your interest?
Like right now, what is, what,what is kind of calling to you
and, um, what seems

Jenève (01:31:01):
Like, focus on the now?
instead of, like, being consumedby the what ifs kind of thing.

Noah (01:31:08):
Yeah.
I remember I wanted to work withkids when I was in Jersey, but I
always thought that like, Oh,you're like a college guy.
And like, people assume that I'mthis person.
So I'm just not going to go inthat circle because that, that,
People be like, wait, why is hegoing over there?
You know, kind of like all theseother things.
And if I really just listened tolike what I was being drawn to,
you know, and what I enjoyeddoing, I probably would have

(01:31:30):
found that earlier.
But it took me like, you know,the whole path took me to figure
that out.
But, um,

Jenève (01:31:37):
discovery.
Yeah.

Noah (01:31:38):
I don't know.
I feel like I'm blabbing.
I'm going back

Jenève (01:31:40):
That's okay.
You can blab.
This is a, it's a podcast.
It's a blab, that's a blab safezone.

Noah (01:31:45):
Blab safe zone.
I love it.

Jenève (01:31:49):
but like, I, I understand what you're saying.
There was definitely likehomeschool families like that
that I knew that were just like,I would say even fearful of like
the, like the have to get intocollege thing.
And just like, ah, like, andeverything like led up to that.
And it does totally like takeaway from the experience of,
that education.
And I'm like, what do you like,what are you enjoying?
What are you interested in?

(01:32:09):
And like, dig in.
Like, do that.
don't get so consumed withwhat's next.
Which is, I think, a life lessonin general That I'm still trying
to figure out, right?

Noah (01:32:21):
Yeah,

Jenève (01:32:22):
Yeah.

Noah (01:32:22):
better summary.
Josiah, what would you say?
What's your advice?
Is

Josiah (01:32:28):
the most important thing that you can do is to be curious
and be passionate and take youropportunity.
And run with it because you'renot sitting in a classroom for
an entire day.
Like it's being homeschooled isthe equivalent to like working
from home.

(01:32:48):
Instead of going into an office.
Nobody's gonna deny that it'sbetter.
Nobody's debating that.
You know what I mean?
Everybody agrees that it's moreproductive to have your work
done at home.
Um, and so just think about itlike that.
It's an opportunity for you toget everything that you need to
get.
To get all the academics, youknow, If your, your parents are

(01:33:11):
putting you out there socially,you'll get that social
experience, but you also havemore time on your hands.
You have more comfort in yourlife by not having that
structure.
You really have it made ifyou're a kid that's homeschooled
right now.
And if you want to go to school,that's cool too.
I did that, you know, and I'llsay that I really valued the

(01:33:32):
social life that I had when Iwent to public school.
It was a positive change.
Um, at the end of the day, youhave a huge opportunity if
you're homeschooled right now,and if you're a parent thinking
about homeschooling your kid,the most important thing that I
can say is let them lead waymore than you're probably

(01:33:56):
expecting to.
I know you're the parent and youwant to know best, but let your
child lead and, you know, justtry to be perceptive to them and
build a plan for them.
around them and sort of let thembe their personality and their
learning style.
Let that be what informs how youteach them, not like a book you

(01:34:19):
read, you know, cause there'sjust no one right path.
And the parent has an amazingopportunity.
You have the opportunity to letthis child become whoever they
are and also make sure that theyhave a proper academic standing
and.
So that's what I would say islike, realize what a beautiful,
like amazing, unique opportunityyou have in your hands and run

(01:34:44):
with that.
Like run with it and enjoy yourlife.
Enjoy the ride because you'redoing something special that a
lot of people don't get to do.
Yes.

Jenève (01:34:58):
Yeah.
Um, so good.
So good.
I'm just grateful to have beenable to do this with you guys.
thank you Josiah and Noah forbeing really vulnerable and
honest on here, um, about yourexperience and your thoughts on
this stuff.
I mean, there's some heavytopics in, in homeschooling and,
um, I think hearing thesedifferent perspectives really

(01:35:20):
helps other people understandthat full picture of what
homeschooling can be and what itdoesn't have to be and, and all
of that.
So, um, thanks.

Noah (01:35:28):
for having us on.
This is, I think this will bereally Yeah.
Helpful,

Josiah (01:35:32):
This is definitely unique and cool.

Noah (01:35:35):
hear

Jenève (01:35:35):
thanks

Jeneve (01:35:37):
Hey, thanks for listening.
If you found this episodehelpful or inspiring or not, I'd
love to hear about it.
Email me at thehomeschooledpodat gmail.
com.
Are you interested in being aguest?
Let's chat.
Apply today at www.
solo.
to forward slash homeschooled tocomplete a quick online

(01:35:58):
application.
Have a great day, don't forgetto drink your water, and I'll
talk to you soon.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}S1 E5: Socialization, Old Friends, and Bunny Ears

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

S1 E5: Socialization, Old Friends, and Bunny Ears

Cold Case Files: Miami