October 11, 2024 • 56 mins
As we are pushing through the podcast, and having a blast doing it, we are also pushing our own work as well! First up is Book 1 in Doc's new series, "The Outside World"! Available on Amazon and Kindle!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Alright, welcome to Heist. I'm Bradly Hackworth joined by Jonathan Ems.
(00:06):
Ordinarily consider, like we consider him a writer because of film and television, the things that he has aspired to. However,
today he is an author and that's what we're going to be covering.
Now, I know you gave me a little heat on this in the past that an author and writer is the same thing.
I challenge you to bring up one example
(00:27):
of someone who authored a movie.
Of someone who authored a movie? Okay.
Just anytime that there's been a trailer, they kick it out. Not written by, authored by.
Okay. I mean, sure, if we're talking like, you know, the WGA Union rules, sure.
(00:47):
We'll see that's what that's kind of what I'm saying. There is a difference between a writer and an author.
And today we're covering the author aspect. The book is
Werewolves of Landfall, which is book one of the Outside World series.
Doc, why don't you give us a little bit of a rundown over what the world's like?
Well, this is a kind of a slow burn series.
(01:11):
The idea is is that we are watching a series of events unfold in which magic returns to the real world.
And the folks that are caught up on that.
And the first few books in the series are the build up to that.
And I'm taking the sort of worldview opinion on this one, how I'm doing it is that
(01:32):
there is an event that is going to release magic onto the world.
But because it travels both backwards and forwards through time,
we see the effects of it starting to build up even before the event happens.
And that's what we are seeing sort of kick off the start of events in this series, is that
there are traces, tiny, tiny bits of strange occurrences, kind of X-Files type stuff happening
(01:58):
that build up to this inevitable event that takes place in the future.
Which speaking of X-Files like genre, this book follows the main character of Carl,
who is an FBI agent who gets sent to landfall.
(02:18):
And he was, if I'm saying this correctly, anti-terrorism task force.
That's where he came from?
Yeah, he was an anti-terrorism task force member.
And I started writing this during the time in which the president at the time was actively defunding
anti-terrorism task forces in our various law enforcement agencies
(02:46):
because all the stats were coming out that the white supremacists were the biggest threat to America.
And some of them in our administrative branch thought that was a good thing.
So they decided to just sort of hamstring those guys.
So is that why... is it a spoiler to talk about the kinds of enemies that are in this book?
(03:09):
No, not really. At least I hope not.
Because we do wind up with some Nazis that Carl actually does go up against.
There's also a little picture, I mean obviously the title of the book, Werewolves of Landfall,
you're gonna run into a furry person.
Right. And no, because like I said, magic hasn't quite come back yet.
(03:32):
These are the starts of that.
What this is a little bit more of a throwback to is kind of, like I said, it's X-Files-ish in a way to start off with.
In which case, like the early episodes of the TV show, The X-Files,
there was a lot of it leaving up in the air of was this really aliens or is Molder just crazy?
And that was kind of one of the things I appreciated about the show in the early days is that they kind of left it up to that,
(03:59):
the viewer's decision for the first like half of the first season.
Well, the answer to both of those questions is yes.
Right, exactly. Yes. And I think it's not a spoiler to say that will be the answer to both questions in this series as well.
And yeah, and I just realized how much of the X-Files is influencing me on this and I didn't even realize that.
(04:22):
Right now I'm writing a book that is heavily inspired by Journey to the West.
Okay, there you go. Yeah.
We've talked about this before. Avatar is Dances with Wolves with blue people.
No, that's true. Yeah. I mean, you kind of run into your inspiration and it happens.
Hey, on our show, we've covered a really, really, really great version of Little Red Riding Hood.
(04:45):
This is just how we do our art, you know. Debatable. I liked it. I liked it. I had fun with it.
Very debatable whether that's a great version of Red Riding Hood. I would argue that version.
I will give you I will give you like that is a personal thing. Okay.
Now, when Carl heads to landfall, he first starts getting introduced and he has some breadcrumbs that are dropped ahead of time.
(05:13):
Now, where you're saying the book has elements where it takes place in the future, in the present and in the past while these things are happening.
Is that part of the past and is Carl going to be part of the past or is the storytelling going to remain linear?
The storytelling is going to remain mostly linear. There will be, you know, every once in a while, there might be some flashbacks here and there.
(05:37):
There are some characters that I've introduced that I haven't fully explained yet.
So they're they're eventually going to have their story told in the form of like maybe a one chapter flashback here and there.
Is that going to be Osric and Isaac?
Or are they going to get their own books too? Because I know the follow up to this one. This book follows Carl. The follow up to this book, book two, follows a new another character that is introduced in this book.
(06:04):
Heather, can you tell us a little bit about her?
Heather is going to be the very, very linchpin member of the story.
She's essentially, well, Carl kind of is our classic antihero, you know, even though he's an FBI agent, he's a very jaded gruff FBI agent who doesn't want to get involved in any of this weirdo shit.
So he's kind of an antihero in that regard. Heather is the hero.
(06:28):
She's the one who dives headfirst into this weird shit because she she wants to be the person who helps everybody out.
And so that's kind of like I'm trying to create this ensemble cast here where, yeah, everyone's going to, you know, there's almost like not quite an Avenger set up, but basically kind of that same idea where you have your team central set of heroes and then they all have kind of their own adventures off to a side and then come back for the big stuff together.
(06:55):
Things like that. That's kind of the whole idea here.
I know because of the era that we're in, everything is the Avengers. I mean, that's that's that is how a team comes together.
That is right. That predates Marvel and DC by centuries. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Like that's it's it's good team dynamics is good character dynamics for this sort of stuff.
(07:16):
Can you tell us a little bit about Isaac and Osric? Isaac and Osric. They are side characters in this book.
And they're and they're a couple of weirdos. That's that's kind of their whole thing.
And I drop a few hints in this book as to their origins, but it's not not fully explained yet, but I don't think it's much of a spoiler to explain it outright.
(07:37):
They are effectively referred to as twins, even though they're not technically twins. They are half brothers with the same father, two different mothers, but they were born within a week of each other.
And so people kind of kind of half acidly refer to them as so is that kind of is that going to turn into one of those they were born during the winter like a winter solstice orgy or something like that?
(08:03):
They were conceived that way. No, their dad's just a philandering prick. That's basically what it comes down to.
I mean, they have right. But that's that's kind of a lot of their motivation, too, is they both have pretty severe daddy issues and they both would have been absolute vagabond criminal.
(08:24):
Like they would have been scum of the earth if not for the fact that they met Heather and she sets them straight and they become heroes instead.
That's kind of their story. And that's that's what we're going to find out about them over the course of the story.
So when do or when are along the series, is there going to be a book that focuses on them together as the main characters or just just Isaac and Osric?
(08:49):
Not not a whole book. There's going to be, you know, in the second book, there's a lot of chapters that are focusing on just them working together.
You know, but as far as like them just being a team, the two of them in a book, no, they they kind of they have such opposing personalities without Heather to basically direct them.
(09:13):
They can't really work with each other. They they are they are brothers in that regard.
I mean, that does sound like a lot of fun to write. Right. Yeah.
They they kind of they love each other, but they also kind of hate each other. And if they don't have mom around to keep them in line, then they're going to misbehave.
And so that's kind of how it goes.
And but I there will be like trade offs like there might be books where it's Osric and Carl and trade offs where it's Isaac and Carl.
(09:44):
And maybe and there's, you know, maybe a book where Heather is on her own, which is going to be a tough one because she's not on her own in Book 2.
No, it's it's it's Heather. It's Heather and Isaac and Osric are the central of Book 2 is the is the idea there kind of explaining their dynamic of the three of them.
(10:07):
But yeah, it's a bit so that it's up in the air. You know, I have the general idea of how this story ends and a lot of the main main beats of how it's going to go.
But when I get down to like, OK, exactly how is this going to be presented? I'm kind of taking it one book at a time.
In fact, I'm why I haven't started Book 5 just yet, because I'm still working out. OK, what next?
(10:33):
You know, on this one, which does bring up a good point. There are four books that have been released so far in this series.
Today, we're only covering Book 1 and The Werewolves of Landfall.
So when you were writing this book, was there a specific message that you had in mind as you were putting the story together or yes, as it as it put together?
(10:56):
Was there a message that came out at you?
No, I did go in with a specific message and it had to do with.
Wow, I didn't realize I was going to get this deep. So I have been OK.
So I have been contemplating since the since the pandemic started and I've been spending a lot of very meditative, quiet time alone of my own thoughts.
(11:23):
I have been exploring my own sense of morality.
It basically came from an argument I have with my father, who's a very religious person, and he kind of came at me with one of those usual like, if you don't have God in your life, then how do you even know what's right and wrong?
So I kind of was forced me to sort of sit there and think about that. Like, where do I get my morality from?
(11:48):
And I basically kind of in my head formulated these three tenets of of base morality.
And I decided that the first three books was going to be examples of those moralities going wrong.
The first one, so what are Doc's versions of Asmof's rules?
(12:09):
Community, diversity and curiosity.
Basically, the idea of community of not those are three pretty strong pillars when you look at them.
Yep. And that's actually was the driving force between the three books are are three sets of villains are in Book One, anti-diversity in Book Two, their anti-curiosity.
(12:32):
And in Book Three, they are anti-community.
And that's what makes them the villains. And it is going to be the fact that they don't have those things.
Big question is what is the difference between community and diversity?
That is a really good question.
In your story.
Yeah. It's a there.
(12:54):
Diversity being that of acceptance and and community being that of support.
So there is a difference between being OK with someone who lives next door to you versus being there for them when they need help.
Those are two different things. And that is the that is the main separation.
While you were writing it, was there anything that jumped out at you that became one of your favorite moments of the book?
(13:21):
Yes. And that would be in when they're OK.
This is a little because I know you guys probably haven't read this book yet.
I've read it. So I'm having a conversation that I want to have.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
This is a little bit of a spoiler, but there is a part in the book where, yes, eventually our heroes do in fact break into and invade a small Nazi stronghold while it is while it is empty.
(13:48):
And they are and they are basically hunkering down and they are discovered and they basically lock themselves in.
So they're in a Nazi and a secret Nazi neo-Nazi base.
They've locked themselves in and they're being surrounded by the Nazis that this base belongs to.
And our heroes decide to shit talk them relentlessly.
(14:11):
They are looking down the barrel of a Nazi gun and they decide to do nothing but insult them.
Like, I don't think I have written better banter than this.
You know, that was a fun scene. I had I had a lot of fun with that.
And just to inform a little piece here, I'm going to be doing the voices for I am recording the audiobook currently and going through and performing some of like that scene because that is a few chapters ahead of where I'm at now.
(14:43):
But I when I was reading it, I practiced a little bit trying to figure out what kind of delivery, what kind of, you know, shmarmy-ness Carl has in that moment.
That is a fun scene. I really like I'm going to give you credit on that one.
I did enjoy the hell out of writing that. Yeah. Yep.
And that's I think that was one of the things to be distracted.
(15:04):
And I really wish that I wasn't looking at this is one of those only times that since we have started this show that I wish that I was looking at the camera instead of the screen because I keep getting like a side glimpse of the cover of your book.
Like tricks my brain into thinking there's a picture of me on the screen.
That is that is funny. Yes. And we talked about this when I sent you the copy of the book. You were like, what the fuck, dude, is this supposed to be me? And I'm like, no, honestly, I when I, you know, bought that that cover from a small design company and I all the only instructions I gave them was the main character is an FBI agent.
(15:44):
That was literally the only thing I say it said that looks like a manlier version of me. Right. Yeah. And that was the image that they that they put forth that they're like, this is your guy. And yeah, it was pretty funny.
And I don't know why that didn't like occur to me. Like I should ask Brad to do the the the audio book right then because he's on the cover already.
(16:06):
But I do remember going like, that kind of looks like Brad. All right. Especially because I mean, the whole time, like almost every modeling gig I had, they had me in a black and white tux.
Oh, so that might be you for all you know. Oh, no, that is definitely not me. That doesn't. No, no, no, no. But like, like I most of the gigs that I got for like modeling and stuff like that was just because I look good in a suit and they would put me next to a woman who was like and we were playing like husband and wife.
(16:38):
Oh, sure. Yeah.
So take away the gun. I have like 30 photo shoots of me looking like that, which has those. Yeah, that did crack me up a little bit. And it, like I said, right now, it's just really distracting because like, I know I have the right photo up.
But every once in a while, I'm like, why is there a picture of me in the peripheral on my screen that should not be there? Right.
(17:01):
Now, I do want to talk about the cover just a little bit more. Sure. Yeah. Because of how inaccurate I feel it is. Okay. Oh, yeah. Because when I read the book, I feel like Carl should look more like you than look like me. Yeah.
Because like the first paragraph that you have him described, he is like you have him described as somebody that people would like very non assuming FBI agent. Right. Yes. Yeah. That's his whole thing.
(17:29):
He's very much a melt into the background type of guy. That's kind of his whole his whole stick. He's not a he's not an authoritarian. He's an expert. That's the thing that we kind of establish. He's he's not just an FBI agent. He's a special agent. He has degrees and PhDs.
He's there as an expert, not as you know, an enforcer. And so his whole thing is that yeah, is that he's not he's not Jason Bourne. He's kind of he's kind of a molder is the idea he's seen. Yeah, you aren't split. You aren't supposed to see him coming.
(17:59):
You know, yeah. And and I thought of that too. And that was actually something I do have a writer's group on Facebook that I that I kind of, you know, discuss some of this stuff with. And the consensus from the you know, there are other indie writers, basically people who don't get published through through the big, you know, the big publishing houses were all we're all a bunch of, you know, indie self published people. The consensus was is that your cover sells your book.
(18:28):
Your cover sells your book. Worry about you don't don't worry about the accuracy of it. Worry about whether or not people are going to look at and go, do I want to read that? And so in that regard, you kind of got a Hollywood your book, your book cover a little bit.
While I was tracking down your cover so I could build the scene for the show, I wound up looking at a lot of other book covers because I just scrolled down and I saw just dozens of other ones. And oh my god, they are all way so much busier than I remember, like, book covers being when I was younger.
(19:06):
And is that like, are they get so I wanted to ask, like, have you noticed, are they getting more elaborate with the covers as time goes on?
There's an ebb and flow. I think that in the same way that if you take a look at the history of movie posters, there are trends. It's the same thing with book covers. And that's also why you know every like five years or so, you know, if there's a book that's still kind of like kind of popular, they will republish it with a new cover that fits the latest trend. And so that's
(19:39):
Yeah, because I know we you and I have had this conversation off camera about book covers and what that because I like the more simple, like there's a there's a book that I read in high school. It was called the Joker or the smoker, something like that. And the cover had two like drama masks on it.
(20:02):
Okay, title and such little information from what was on the cover brought me a million miles of intrigue beyond what I see now. Right. Yeah. Like I look at it and go. And it feel like I know the story already. It's kind of like when you see like a preview for a movie that gives too much information.
(20:23):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm more drawn to the books that have just like one letter on the cover. And there are a few like that there are some I've noticed some of my contemporaries in my book, some of them. They have like a logo picked out, you know, usually like, like take your your Hogwarts school type thing and they'll basically just have the
(20:46):
logo of the of that, you know, school or university or secret organization or whatever. That's the front of the that's the front of the book. And that's it. And if it's a series of books, then the only difference is like the background color.
You know, it looks like all the covers look exactly the same except the ones primarily read the next one's primarily blue and so on down the line. I do kind of like that. Yeah.
(21:08):
I considered that I decided against it at the last second. Basically, I wanted to go with people because this is more than anything. This is a character piece. Right. Like that to go to go back to, you know, my the X files. Like I said, there's a lot of X files influencing this.
I'm going to tell you a secret that I have never said in public before and it's probably going to get me, you know, canceled. But I kind of hated the X files.
(21:32):
But I want to get you can say, man, like, okay, why didn't you like the X files though? Like, because relatively speaking, it was.
Okay, here's the thing. What I loved about the X files and is the reason why I did in fact watch every episode was because of Mulder and Scully. They were excellent characters, very well written, great chemistry, well performed by the actors.
(21:58):
I was watching the show for them. Everything else about the show was so fucking pedantic and lame. I just I could barely stand it. But I sat through all seven seasons of that fucking show just for those two.
I think I watched maybe five episodes my entire childhood. It didn't grab me. Okay. And I mean, I was younger. But at the same time, I had a lot of friends who really loved the show. So that's not exactly a good excuse.
(22:27):
But yeah, that's the kind of the approach I take. And I felt like the series is about the characters more than any of the actual events or the stories. It's about the only episode of X files that I've really ever loved was not an episode of X files.
You know what I'm talking about?
(22:48):
Can you guess based off of that little information?
The crossover with cops.
Oh, right. I remember that one. That was pretty clever. So it was pretty clever. That was wildly hilarious. And like, like people talk about like Deadpool being like the ultimate meta. I'm sorry. That might be the most meta joke that has ever been done on TV.
(23:16):
It was pretty good. It was pretty clever. I think it's probably one of their more because they never even they never even admitted that it was a joke. They went the right the whole episode go and nobody broke character. It was awesome. Yeah.
So okay, I've been very, very vague about this. There's an episode of cops where Mulder and Scully come over and they have a crossover where they're like looking for a werewolf that the cops were supposedly supposedly chasing. Right. Yeah. And they literally did it exactly like an episode of cops. And it was so much fun. Yeah. Back to this.
(23:48):
What like, let's see. So we talked about your inspirations being what was happening in real world politics as you sat down and got in on this. Little bit in there. Yeah. Well, as the series progressed, were there any other real world politics that actually played into the other four books or the other three books that have been released so far?
Not that specifically. No. I mean, there was a lot of this comes from going back about 15 years.
(24:23):
These are ideas that you've had rolling around for a while.
Right. Yeah. Some of it even based on real life stuff, you know, like, they're the, you know, the premise of book two is something that actually happened to me. You know, that's really, yeah.
It's it's really, really like, you know, flowered up and turned into a bigger deal than it was in real life, of course. But like that was basically is the writers like, cool. Yeah. Nobody. Nobody died in the real life version. I'll say that much.
(25:00):
That's good. Yeah. But I haven't read book two yet. I'm still trying to I'm still doing the performance on book one before I move over to the second one. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, that was the thing is like when that happened even way back then, like I was thinking to myself like this could be a movie, you know, and then as I thought about it, I was like, oh, and we can go this direction, this direction. And then it became like a whole thing in my head. And there was a part of me that really thought that like, if I ever made it as a TV writer, this would be
(25:30):
like my series, this would be my supernatural would be this series. And since that never happened, I was, you know, I was like, all right, I guess I'll I'll turn it into novels instead. And so that's, you know, so here we are. Realistically, I think, for people who are trying to break into it, I think the way to go is actually to make the novels first, get some following and everything like that, because studios, they don't want to take chances. No, that's true. Yeah, nobody only want they only want to cast.
(26:00):
People who already have that come with an audience and they like they want to make stuff that already has an audience with. Yeah, yeah, people, people are always complaining like, oh, there's no new ideas in Hollywood anymore. Like, it's a shame. And it's not really a shame. It was a deliberate choice. They the studio executives have gotten together and went, all right, so we all agree no new ideas, right, right. Okay, great. Yeah, that and that's where we are now, you know, because it's, you know, a new ideas are risk and they're as much as I want as much as it does.
(26:30):
It sounds fun to agree with that. Everything everywhere all at once was not like that is not okay. I mean, you got me there. Swiss Army man. Like, there are some. Right. They are. But they're mostly like a 24 movies. Right. That's true. And to end what helped, I think, every everywhere, everything everywhere was the fact that what was it that Daniels had did just before that.
(27:00):
That was a big hit. I'm trying to remember what it was. Blanking, but and then but then you throw in Michelle Yeoh in there like they had their own name power to bring up to bring that up.
And so that was that was where the studios wouldn't take a risk on them was that, okay, these are people who have made us money before. We'll go ahead and let the idea slide. Very happy that they brought Kehoe Klon. Oh, yeah.
(27:23):
And for it like the the what are we calling it? The Quina sauce. I had not heard that before, but I love it. Yeah, I hadn't heard it either, but it is fun to say. And it was it's a hard comeback. He's suddenly everywhere. Good for him. Like, oh, my God. Yeah, the there was a story that came out. They were talking about doing a Goonies reunion.
(27:48):
Oh, my God, that would be so expensive. Every single one of them has become an A-lister now. Yeah, there's not.
Yeah. Corey.
A-lister.
I'm okay. Maybe he's not an A-lister now. I'm sorry, man. I don't think anybody under 25 years old has any idea who he is unless they happen to listen to a podcast that he shows up on.
(28:15):
You're probably right.
Like, that's the sad part, though, is everybody else. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, that was the thing is Corey, he burned up a lot faster. He got he got so much more famous, so much faster than the rest of them. That was, you know, his candle went out early. I think it's the case there.
I know that, but even to this day, I still do not understand his fame, even back then. I don't really get it because I look at all the other actors from like back then, back in that time and all this. I'm a lot more entertained by them than I was him.
(28:52):
I'm trying to think. What was the big special thing about Feldman that had everybody had him in so many things?
To my knowledge, based on the conversations that I was having with people of my own age, of my own age group and of the same kind of tastes in film and stuff like that, my understanding his draw was that he was a stone cold hottie.
(29:16):
That was that was the that was the phrase that I kept hearing coming up as people talked about him.
The girls that I hung out with and yes, I did hang out with girls growing up.
They all thought that.
(29:36):
And they all they all thought that basically it was the Corey's it was it was it was the pairing Corey Feldman and Corey Haim together was literally like.
You know, all a movie needed ever and every every girl that I knew would see that movie forever.
That was basically the like I see like footage of like Drew Barrymore wildly crushing on him and all this.
(30:01):
And I'm just like, I just sit there as confused as I could possibly be because I'm just like, wow, man, that that look is because I know what he turned into.
And it's painting everything.
Well, it's it's also that that look he was rocking that sort of like that dark hair mane thing he had going on with that in that kind of just sort of like Jersey grin with it.
(30:23):
That became very, very commonplace because of him.
He was he was kind of the first one to rock it, made it popular.
Everyone started rocking it.
And now probably by the time you're coming up, you're thinking, I don't get it.
Everyone looks like this. So that might be that I mean, that that honestly might be.
Well, OK, fair enough.
(30:44):
We'll reach out to Corey Feldman and see if he wants to play the role of Carl.
That's OK. That would that would be pretty good.
Actually, I think he would fit it quite well.
But yeah, I thought you were going with let's let's call Corey Feldman, see if he wants to come on the podcast and explain himself.
What the hell makes you think you were so popular back then, Mr.
(31:04):
Hot Stuff? Explain.
What what was your draw of all of all people?
I know there are people now that I don't really get, though, either.
But that's just the thing. Like I like my taste is not the general public's taste.
Like who I who I think is like the most beautiful people in the world.
(31:28):
No, they don't they don't get they're not the ones who actually get the wild acclaim.
I totally get what you're saying there. Yeah.
Like we both have epic crushes on Felicia Day.
Mm hmm. No, that's true. Yeah.
Why is she not considered a list?
That is a really good question.
Hilarious, dedicated, motivated, charming.
(31:51):
She she alone has kept a lot of nerd culture alive.
True. Yeah, no, that's that's right. Yeah.
No, but she is not considered a lister.
Doesn't make sense.
But if you and I were in charge, she would be.
Of of all the people that ate it on Supernatural,
she's the one that everyone is unanimously angry about.
(32:14):
Oh, Charlie. Yeah.
Oh, my God. Like like like.
They like I mean, they they're like they cleaned house on that show
like every other season where literally everyone but the Winchesters dies.
And everyone's just like, oh, I like that.
They're like, yeah, they're doing things nobody's ever done.
Like you kick it over to CW. Right. Yeah, exactly.
(32:38):
Yeah, it is not good to date or date Sam.
But pushing back through here,
when you actually do run the gambit and try to figure out
who are the actors that you would like to play these characters,
(32:58):
because you said that you put this together in mind of a TV show.
Right. Yeah. Who's the cast?
Who's your dream cast for this show?
Well, I mean, I did have that in mind a few times, but it always kind of like
that was the thing is like, I do kind of see these folks in a set age.
And I don't want to sit here and go like, ah, so and so is too old
to play this character.
That's a very Hollywood thing to do, except that, yeah, most of the people
(33:22):
I had in mind when I first came up with this are too old to play the character
now because characters are supposed to be in their 20s and 40s.
And now all those people are in their 40s and 60s.
So that's not going to work.
You know?
But I mean, yeah, now that you've said
Corey Feldman for for Carl, I'm actually on board with that.
(33:42):
I can totally don't make me regret talking to you.
Don't don't make me regret using words. Come on.
Come on. You think Corey Feldman, who he is today with his deaf leopard,
want to be looking ass is going to be able to walk on set and actually deliver?
No, probably not. I could I.
I guess it would be like if who he was back in the in the 80s and 90s
(34:05):
as prime, if you just aged that up a little bit, it would have been a lot better.
Yeah, who he is now isn't quite the right fit.
You're right.
Like, I'm sorry to knock the guy like that, but he has kind of become
a little bit of a goofball, and I cannot tell if that is intentional.
A character he's putting if he's having fun with it,
or if the dude actually believes that he's one of the top rockers of our generation.
(34:30):
I don't think he actually believes that, no.
The way he talks.
I don't know, man.
That's why it's like, I it's kind of it's kind of rough.
But OK, all right.
So Carl Corey Feldman.
Actually, I don't I honestly don't know.
I mean, that's kind of the thing is that you could just have Osric Chow be Osric.
(34:52):
Well, that would be a little on the nose.
Yes, it was fun about it.
That's why back when I was back when I was pushing
and like reaching out for gigs and everything like that,
if there was a character named Brad, I auditioned for it every time.
I know how to be a Brad.
That's.
I don't know.
What do you see as Heather?
(35:14):
As Heather.
See, I mean, like.
A younger, more mature, more mature.
Regina King probably would have been perfect.
OK, so yeah, you're talking casting this literally 30 years ago then.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
I think and part of it is, is I when I did.
What about Gina Torres?
(35:35):
Gina Torres.
Look her up.
OK, but I mean, the thing is, is that also when I did start writing it,
you know, in book format, I did kind of want to deliberately
keep that out of my mind because I wanted the, you know, I was still very angry.
I had a cast about like allowing the reader to paint the scene
(35:56):
as much as you have.
And I know it's what you wanted to do.
And I know that there are a lot of other authors that do it.
Sorry, what was the name you told me? Look up again.
I forgot Gina Torres.
Gina Torres. Oh, oh, I know her. Yes.
She also would. Yeah.
30 years ago also would have been perfect for it. Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I think I have.
(36:17):
I think I have like the right kind of persona.
Yeah. That you're that you want Heather to be, which
I'm still trying to workshop this out with him because I'm still trying
to figure out her voice for the book,
which you said Scarlett Johansson in what movie is what you kind of saw.
Ghost World. Ghost World.
Yeah. And yeah, not Scarlett Johansson's voice,
(36:38):
but specifically the voice that she has for that character.
She's got a that character has a very peculiar way of speaking.
That was kind of one of those.
I think that was the first movie I ever saw Johansson in.
And that was one of the things that made her stand out to me
was the peculiar way of speaking she had there.
I honestly thought that that was that was how she talked.
It wasn't until like the next thing I saw her and that I was like,
(36:59):
oh, she doesn't actually talk like that, you know?
And so, yeah.
So how many books do you think the series is going to go out to?
I know you've said
a certain number at one point, but I'm curious if it's still depending on.
I mean, depending on a lot, partially having to do with how well it sells.
And whether or not I want to keep working on it or start something else.
(37:22):
Partially on if I really think the story is is working the way it's going.
My thinking is somewhere between 16 to 20 books.
Yeah, I remember you saying that you had an idea of about 21 books, which
good damn.
And how like are you looking for an average length for these books?
Or are they just going to be what they're going to be?
(37:43):
They're going to be what they're going to be probably going to.
Yeah, they're going to be what they're going to be.
And in fact, book four ended up being quite a bit longer than I intended.
And that was one of the reasons why I needed to recover for so long
after finishing it was because I was like, oh, my God, what the hell did I just write?
Which with the outside world.
How magical is this place going to be?
(38:06):
And how much is the world going to remain as the world is?
More specifically, is magic only going to be
going to be in landfall or is the world itself going to change?
The world itself is going to change.
OK. And that's kind of where I'm kind of toying with things
(38:28):
is how much of the world do I want my main characters to be responsible for?
Because there are only four of them and they are only human.
Yeah, that's kind of one of those like that.
You know, that's I'm going to get to that.
But yes, it is going to.
The states are going to keep but you're only going to keep it down to these four.
Like expanding allies, things like that.
(38:50):
Yeah, there will be expanding allies.
In fact, I introduce one of the one of the future allies
is introduced in Book Three and another one in Book Four.
And these are people who like nobody from Book One.
Nobody from Book One comes back except for Carl. Yeah.
I thought I thought for sure that Burgess was going to come back.
(39:11):
He'll get mentioned here and there, but I haven't had any plans for him
beyond, you know, beyond what happened in Book One. Yeah.
OK. He might. He might, actually, because there's.
Actually, I really like that.
Burgess, I really like him. Yeah.
I totally forgot Tunder from Book One.
He actually is quite reoccurring.
(39:33):
I forgot about him for a second, and I could see from his future.
I could actually see Burgess and him get tussling at some point.
So Burgess might come back.
OK. Yeah.
That is nice, though, because the voice that I chose for Burgess,
it is one of my favorite voices, but it does take it out of me.
(39:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what happens when you do three chapters in a day, man,
especially with that voice.
And I am I am using the cabbie.
Yeah, I love that voice so damn much, too.
I remember when I when I first heard it, I did tell you
I was like, hey, just so you know, and I heard you do Burgess.
So I was like, just so you know, this guy is in a lot of this book.
(40:16):
Are you sure you want to do that voice?
And you were like, no, I got it.
Well, and that's the thing.
I do. I just can't talk the next day.
I have to strategically plan out when I do that character.
So that character isn't like a huge recurring character in the series.
That's not going to be too bad.
(40:36):
Beyond that, beyond everything else that we have covered,
is there anything specific
that you want your reader to know going into the book?
What I would want them to know is that it is a slow burn.
You know, the the the main action, the main crux of this story
takes a while to happen books in, you know.
(40:57):
So if you're someone who likes to jump right into the action,
this is probably isn't going to be your kind of story.
This is a slow build.
And it is a character piece.
There are, you know, I know the the the rule of storytelling is show.
Don't tell.
I do a lot of tell don't show in the series
because it's about the interactions of the characters with each other
(41:20):
as they're they're going through this experience,
sometimes even saying this is what happened to me, you know,
and this is how I feel about it while it was happening,
explaining it to to each other.
That's the important part of the story.
And so that's what you're going into.
This is it. This is more character studies and is more about the relationships
and the dynamics between the characters instead of what is actually happening
(41:42):
in the world. Exactly. Yes.
Like like that's that's nice, though.
I mean, that because of a lot of what we are getting now,
it's all giant stakes, huge sky beams.
The world is right.
And the universe is going to end like all this stuff.
It is nice to just jump in on some interpersonal
(42:03):
interpersonal connected stories.
Mm hmm.
Then that was kind of my that was kind of my goal here is I did want to
show the importance of like, yeah, it doesn't have to be the end of the world
for it to be a good story.
It can just be your friend is your friend is having a bad day.
That can be a really, really good story if you do it right.
(42:24):
And really, I did.
You have another story that I am very, very much.
The woman with the dead husband.
Doc, this is a story that literally happened to you in your real life.
Oh, right. That one. Right. Right.
No, no. He was her fiance.
Not. Yeah. No, no. I remember you.
(42:46):
All right. Yeah.
I remember talking about that with you. Yeah. Yeah.
And you were I remember you were so mad at me that I hadn't written that already.
And I was like, OK, but that's the best thing is start crying
over thinking about a story you were just told about.
It's too good of a story to just let sit.
(43:08):
Yeah. Seriously, you're just kind of disrespecting yourself
as a creator by not doing something with that.
And I have been considering what to do about that.
How how to storeify that.
Do I want to put do I want it to be a book, a screenplay?
Do I want it to be have a part of another book, like put it in a book
(43:29):
and put it in someone's back story?
I've been kind of pondering around that a little bit.
And I think and I think I've I've kind of settled on what I'm going to do with it.
But I'm not 100 percent sure.
And it is very much a back burner thing because I have already loaded myself up.
Like, I think that might be like we were just talking before the show
about how I've kind of been in a bit of a creative paralysis.
(43:53):
And I think part of it has to do with the fact that I have given myself
too many expectations.
I have book six or book five of the of the outside world.
I planned, right?
No, not yet. Oh, that's that's the thing.
It's like I know.
Other book that you went to go.
You wound up writing like four chapters on accident.
(44:13):
Well, yeah, well, I wrote the outline on accident.
Oh, that's what it was.
Yeah. And it was OK.
And this this is a little inside baseball, folks.
So, OK, Brad, do you remember when we were back in Portland
and one of the first projects you and I started working on together
was the one right after that self portrait?
(44:36):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Oh, so what a script.
Thank you.
But yeah, I kind of, you know, first thing Brad and I ever worked on together
kind of bit me with the bug of wanting to try to be a filmmaker again
after giving up on it for a couple of years.
And so I wrote a screenplay specifically for Brad
(44:59):
for him and I and a couple of our of our other friends to work on.
And yeah, and Brad has never missed an opportunity
to compliment me on how much he loved that script.
And I appreciate that.
There is a character in that script that is also loosely based off myself.
And but in that the contents of the context of that script,
(45:22):
that guy actually is a successful writer as opposed to myself.
And what he's most famous for is a story, a book
he wrote about his own life called The Shoe Tree Fables.
Brad, I wrote the outline to The Shoe Tree Fables.
That's what I did. That's what I did.
That's what that accident. Yes.
Oh, my God. I accidentally.
(45:43):
Specifically for like three people.
Yeah, I accidentally wrote the outline to The Shoe Tree Fables.
So, yeah, that's that's awesome, though. I hope so.
Eventually, yeah.
But what like what?
Because I remember, oh, my God, I need to go back and reread Self-Portrait again.
Because he actually talked a little bit about The Shoe Tree Fables.
(46:05):
A little bit.
Like you already you've known what that story is for a long time, haven't you?
Well, yeah, like I said, it was I mean, in the same case of with
with the character in the in the in the script where he's like, it's based on my own life.
And, you know, that's why I don't write anymore,
because now my life is not worth writing about.
Like and that's the thing is like the shoot.
The even this new version, this real version, The Shoe Tree Fables is again
(46:28):
kind of based on my life in the same way that that character was based on me.
It's that sort of like continuation.
You know, it's taking what happens in Self-Portrait.
Let's just hope that that doesn't actually happen to me. Right.
Again, I'm not a magician. Oh, my God.
I became a photographer after that.
(46:51):
And the third person that that that that that you wrote that about became a painter after that.
Really, did she?
She did not. I did not know that.
She sat down at the house like you remember the the house that we had was on like 52nd
or something like that that you guys all lived at 51st or something.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She would go over and she would paint with the other on
(47:12):
like the other person who lived in that house all the time.
Literally every character that you wrote in that book, weirdly, we all went on to become those characters.
I spent four years as a photographer after after you wrote after you wrote a screenplay
where I became a photographer.
The other person was not a good like artist and they got pretty good at it.
(47:35):
That is, I apparently I think you're writing really weird super power.
People don't know tomorrow's edition.
That's way too old.
That is that is that is a deep cut.
That is a deep cut. Yeah.
I'm a little embarrassed that I remember that.
I like that movie, though.
I don't think I show show show.
(47:57):
Yeah, it was a TV show. Yeah, I never I don't think I ever even saw it.
I just remember seeing the ads for it.
I don't know.
I don't think I ever even saw it. I just remember seeing the ads for it while it was on.
But yeah.
Maybe it was a movie that got adapted into a TV show because I remember because I remember
watching one.
OK, so either I watched one episode or the movie and I thought it was awesome.
(48:20):
Well, remember back then pilot episodes were sometimes double sized episodes.
So it might have been it might have been a TV movie type thing.
It would have been a two hour first episode, probably.
That is fair.
That is fair.
I could see that. So we've got a few more because we're only going to try to keep this
down to about an hour.
OK, do you have any final thoughts that you have for what people should?
(48:47):
How did you have any final thoughts?
Do I have any final thoughts?
I mean, I don't know.
It's I've been I've been in.
I've been having trouble with this since the beginning, ever since I came out with these
books and I've had, you know, and since I'm indie and I don't have a publishing house
out there selling them for me, I got to sell them myself and all of the.
(49:11):
Is indie pendant, not in and.
Yeah.
You didn't hear how that sounded.
Did you like no, I'm indie and.
Oh, I did not hear that at all.
Wow.
I just I just wanted to.
That would have been that.
That would have been embarrassing. Yes.
(49:34):
But the.
All of the advice that I get when it comes to how to sell your independently published
stuff, they always start with, you know, identify who your target audience is.
And I can't for the life of me figure out who that is.
Like, I have no clue.
I wrote these books for myself and I don't even know who I am.
(49:58):
So like, that's the trouble I'm having.
I can see.
So I don't I don't want to sit here and go read the book.
You'll love it.
I don't know.
It'll it's a matter of taste.
This is very, very much a matter of taste.
If you like, if you like book, if you, if you two, if you two or someone who watched
the entirety of the X-Files, even though you kind of hated it, then yeah, this is the book for you.
(50:23):
So.
So here's the thing, like I said, I haven't finished performing the book yet for the audiobook,
but I have read it a couple of times.
I enjoyed it.
I am kind of a prick when it comes to stories and such.
I have picked up other friends books and I have put them down after reading the first
(50:47):
page because I'm just like, that is, I do not want to lie to somebody that I care about.
And I would rather tell them that I didn't get that.
I didn't read the book instead of telling them good job when all I want to do is yell at them.
Like I never had that problem with you.
I picked up the book.
I read it.
(51:09):
Cause I tried to bust through it to cast the characters with my own voices.
And then I wound up reading it.
That doesn't usually happen.
So the book caught me.
It wrote me in.
That fricking Nazi scene.
I laughed my ass off as I was going through that because I'm like,
I had that like moment of disbelief.
I'm like, this wouldn't fucking happen.
I'm having fun with it.
(51:30):
I don't even give a shit.
Like it was fun.
It's a fun read.
It gives you a perspective on a main character that realistically,
we have all had characters who look like me jam down our throats because
I'm the only like heroes are only allowed to be like the white guys with full hair and square jaws.
(51:54):
Right.
This is a hero of the real world.
Somebody who is intelligent, somebody who is doing their paperwork, who is paying attention,
who was just like got their nose to the grindstone and they are going after it.
I think like, even though this is a story about magic,
I feel like this one is actually more realistic than a lot of the books that I've read recently.
(52:17):
Thank you.
Just because the main character is a realistic character, the way he finds out information,
it doesn't happen upon him.
He actually seeks out the right person and then winds up getting the answer because he knew who
to ask. That is a well thought out story that has been, well, it just, it lands.
(52:43):
Well, thank you.
I swear folks, we're not doing this just so Brad can tell me how awesome I am.
I've actually tried to get him to stop, I swear, but I do appreciate it anyway.
I mean, it is what it is. It is a good read. It's an enjoyable read. I have had some of my friends
(53:03):
pick it up and they've read it. They enjoy it. And I don't know if they've went to drop the reviews,
but they have told me that they enjoyed it. They've told me some of their favorite parts.
I got a couple of cousins that Heather is both of their favorite character.
Oh, nice.
So I know book two is going to be a lot of fun for them.
(53:25):
And it has my recommendation. Keep in mind, don't go from Game of Thrones to the outside world.
Oh, for sure. For sure.
It's not the same type of thing. It's not the same type of world. The pain that you get from the
outside world, I haven't really felt any of the pain yet, but I'm guessing that's coming.
(53:46):
Yep. The hardcore stuff starts happening and maybe next book, maybe the one after, but yeah.
No, the intrigue right away going into the book from the prologue where you lined up meeting
what is going to be some of the epic villains of the story. It caught me right away. And if
(54:08):
it catches you on the prologue, I think that it is just a good way to go. It's what we all want to do
and we'll all pull it off.
Right. Yeah. Yep.
All right. So that's going to bring a close to our first bonus episode. I'm going to have a link
in the description for where you can find the book. You can also find the book on the website.
(54:29):
And for where you can find the book, you can also find the book on Amazon. But when the channel
actually does reach monetization, one of the very first things that we're going to list on the
channel for our audience to be able to buy is going to be Doc's entire series.
Yes. Signed copies, of course. But yeah, for now it's available on Amazon. You can buy it in print.
(54:53):
You can get it as a Kindle download. And if you are a Kindle Unlimited subscriber, the first three
books are available for free on Kindle Unlimited. The first three, really? Yes. Wow. Because I
feel that's here's the thing. When I discover a new TV series, I try to give it the first
(55:14):
three episodes before I decide if I want to continue with it. And even though a book is
way more than an episode, I kind of feel like I wanted to do the same thing. So I'm the book.
The first three are available for free on Kindle Unlimited. Then you can decide if you actually
want to invest extra money on it after that. And I promise it will, you know, be more than
(55:37):
than just like the first half of the series, there will be more to invest in.
Fair enough. All right. So that is going to be the Outside World Book One,
Werewolves of Landfall, written by Jonathan Enns. Our co-host, otherwise goes by Doc.
Hello, fellow humans. All right. And that's going to bring a close to our first bonus episode.
(56:00):
And we will see you later this week because season two is coming back.
Alright, welcome to Heist. I'm Bradly Hackworth joined by Jonathan Ems.
(00:06):
Ordinarily consider, like we consider him a writer because of film and television, the things that he has aspired to. However,
today he is an author and that's what we're going to be covering.
Now, I know you gave me a little heat on this in the past that an author and writer is the same thing.
I challenge you to bring up one example
(00:27):
of someone who authored a movie.
Of someone who authored a movie? Okay.
Just anytime that there's been a trailer, they kick it out. Not written by, authored by.
Okay. I mean, sure, if we're talking like, you know, the WGA Union rules, sure.
(00:47):
We'll see that's what that's kind of what I'm saying. There is a difference between a writer and an author.
And today we're covering the author aspect. The book is
Werewolves of Landfall, which is book one of the Outside World series.
Doc, why don't you give us a little bit of a rundown over what the world's like?
Well, this is a kind of a slow burn series.
(01:11):
The idea is is that we are watching a series of events unfold in which magic returns to the real world.
And the folks that are caught up on that.
And the first few books in the series are the build up to that.
And I'm taking the sort of worldview opinion on this one, how I'm doing it is that
(01:32):
there is an event that is going to release magic onto the world.
But because it travels both backwards and forwards through time,
we see the effects of it starting to build up even before the event happens.
And that's what we are seeing sort of kick off the start of events in this series, is that
there are traces, tiny, tiny bits of strange occurrences, kind of X-Files type stuff happening
(01:58):
that build up to this inevitable event that takes place in the future.
Which speaking of X-Files like genre, this book follows the main character of Carl,
who is an FBI agent who gets sent to landfall.
(02:18):
And he was, if I'm saying this correctly, anti-terrorism task force.
That's where he came from?
Yeah, he was an anti-terrorism task force member.
And I started writing this during the time in which the president at the time was actively defunding
anti-terrorism task forces in our various law enforcement agencies
(02:46):
because all the stats were coming out that the white supremacists were the biggest threat to America.
And some of them in our administrative branch thought that was a good thing.
So they decided to just sort of hamstring those guys.
So is that why... is it a spoiler to talk about the kinds of enemies that are in this book?
(03:09):
No, not really. At least I hope not.
Because we do wind up with some Nazis that Carl actually does go up against.
There's also a little picture, I mean obviously the title of the book, Werewolves of Landfall,
you're gonna run into a furry person.
Right. And no, because like I said, magic hasn't quite come back yet.
(03:32):
These are the starts of that.
What this is a little bit more of a throwback to is kind of, like I said, it's X-Files-ish in a way to start off with.
In which case, like the early episodes of the TV show, The X-Files,
there was a lot of it leaving up in the air of was this really aliens or is Molder just crazy?
And that was kind of one of the things I appreciated about the show in the early days is that they kind of left it up to that,
(03:59):
the viewer's decision for the first like half of the first season.
Well, the answer to both of those questions is yes.
Right, exactly. Yes. And I think it's not a spoiler to say that will be the answer to both questions in this series as well.
And yeah, and I just realized how much of the X-Files is influencing me on this and I didn't even realize that.
(04:22):
Right now I'm writing a book that is heavily inspired by Journey to the West.
Okay, there you go. Yeah.
We've talked about this before. Avatar is Dances with Wolves with blue people.
No, that's true. Yeah. I mean, you kind of run into your inspiration and it happens.
Hey, on our show, we've covered a really, really, really great version of Little Red Riding Hood.
(04:45):
This is just how we do our art, you know. Debatable. I liked it. I liked it. I had fun with it.
Very debatable whether that's a great version of Red Riding Hood. I would argue that version.
I will give you I will give you like that is a personal thing. Okay.
Now, when Carl heads to landfall, he first starts getting introduced and he has some breadcrumbs that are dropped ahead of time.
(05:13):
Now, where you're saying the book has elements where it takes place in the future, in the present and in the past while these things are happening.
Is that part of the past and is Carl going to be part of the past or is the storytelling going to remain linear?
The storytelling is going to remain mostly linear. There will be, you know, every once in a while, there might be some flashbacks here and there.
(05:37):
There are some characters that I've introduced that I haven't fully explained yet.
So they're they're eventually going to have their story told in the form of like maybe a one chapter flashback here and there.
Is that going to be Osric and Isaac?
Or are they going to get their own books too? Because I know the follow up to this one. This book follows Carl. The follow up to this book, book two, follows a new another character that is introduced in this book.
(06:04):
Heather, can you tell us a little bit about her?
Heather is going to be the very, very linchpin member of the story.
She's essentially, well, Carl kind of is our classic antihero, you know, even though he's an FBI agent, he's a very jaded gruff FBI agent who doesn't want to get involved in any of this weirdo shit.
So he's kind of an antihero in that regard. Heather is the hero.
(06:28):
She's the one who dives headfirst into this weird shit because she she wants to be the person who helps everybody out.
And so that's kind of like I'm trying to create this ensemble cast here where, yeah, everyone's going to, you know, there's almost like not quite an Avenger set up, but basically kind of that same idea where you have your team central set of heroes and then they all have kind of their own adventures off to a side and then come back for the big stuff together.
(06:55):
Things like that. That's kind of the whole idea here.
I know because of the era that we're in, everything is the Avengers. I mean, that's that's that is how a team comes together.
That is right. That predates Marvel and DC by centuries. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Like that's it's it's good team dynamics is good character dynamics for this sort of stuff.
(07:16):
Can you tell us a little bit about Isaac and Osric? Isaac and Osric. They are side characters in this book.
And they're and they're a couple of weirdos. That's that's kind of their whole thing.
And I drop a few hints in this book as to their origins, but it's not not fully explained yet, but I don't think it's much of a spoiler to explain it outright.
(07:37):
They are effectively referred to as twins, even though they're not technically twins. They are half brothers with the same father, two different mothers, but they were born within a week of each other.
And so people kind of kind of half acidly refer to them as so is that kind of is that going to turn into one of those they were born during the winter like a winter solstice orgy or something like that?
(08:03):
They were conceived that way. No, their dad's just a philandering prick. That's basically what it comes down to.
I mean, they have right. But that's that's kind of a lot of their motivation, too, is they both have pretty severe daddy issues and they both would have been absolute vagabond criminal.
(08:24):
Like they would have been scum of the earth if not for the fact that they met Heather and she sets them straight and they become heroes instead.
That's kind of their story. And that's that's what we're going to find out about them over the course of the story.
So when do or when are along the series, is there going to be a book that focuses on them together as the main characters or just just Isaac and Osric?
(08:49):
Not not a whole book. There's going to be, you know, in the second book, there's a lot of chapters that are focusing on just them working together.
You know, but as far as like them just being a team, the two of them in a book, no, they they kind of they have such opposing personalities without Heather to basically direct them.
(09:13):
They can't really work with each other. They they are they are brothers in that regard.
I mean, that does sound like a lot of fun to write. Right. Yeah.
They they kind of they love each other, but they also kind of hate each other. And if they don't have mom around to keep them in line, then they're going to misbehave.
And so that's kind of how it goes.
And but I there will be like trade offs like there might be books where it's Osric and Carl and trade offs where it's Isaac and Carl.
(09:44):
And maybe and there's, you know, maybe a book where Heather is on her own, which is going to be a tough one because she's not on her own in Book 2.
No, it's it's it's Heather. It's Heather and Isaac and Osric are the central of Book 2 is the is the idea there kind of explaining their dynamic of the three of them.
(10:07):
But yeah, it's a bit so that it's up in the air. You know, I have the general idea of how this story ends and a lot of the main main beats of how it's going to go.
But when I get down to like, OK, exactly how is this going to be presented? I'm kind of taking it one book at a time.
In fact, I'm why I haven't started Book 5 just yet, because I'm still working out. OK, what next?
(10:33):
You know, on this one, which does bring up a good point. There are four books that have been released so far in this series.
Today, we're only covering Book 1 and The Werewolves of Landfall.
So when you were writing this book, was there a specific message that you had in mind as you were putting the story together or yes, as it as it put together?
(10:56):
Was there a message that came out at you?
No, I did go in with a specific message and it had to do with.
Wow, I didn't realize I was going to get this deep. So I have been OK.
So I have been contemplating since the since the pandemic started and I've been spending a lot of very meditative, quiet time alone of my own thoughts.
(11:23):
I have been exploring my own sense of morality.
It basically came from an argument I have with my father, who's a very religious person, and he kind of came at me with one of those usual like, if you don't have God in your life, then how do you even know what's right and wrong?
So I kind of was forced me to sort of sit there and think about that. Like, where do I get my morality from?
(11:48):
And I basically kind of in my head formulated these three tenets of of base morality.
And I decided that the first three books was going to be examples of those moralities going wrong.
The first one, so what are Doc's versions of Asmof's rules?
(12:09):
Community, diversity and curiosity.
Basically, the idea of community of not those are three pretty strong pillars when you look at them.
Yep. And that's actually was the driving force between the three books are are three sets of villains are in Book One, anti-diversity in Book Two, their anti-curiosity.
(12:32):
And in Book Three, they are anti-community.
And that's what makes them the villains. And it is going to be the fact that they don't have those things.
Big question is what is the difference between community and diversity?
That is a really good question.
In your story.
Yeah. It's a there.
(12:54):
Diversity being that of acceptance and and community being that of support.
So there is a difference between being OK with someone who lives next door to you versus being there for them when they need help.
Those are two different things. And that is the that is the main separation.
While you were writing it, was there anything that jumped out at you that became one of your favorite moments of the book?
(13:21):
Yes. And that would be in when they're OK.
This is a little because I know you guys probably haven't read this book yet.
I've read it. So I'm having a conversation that I want to have.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
This is a little bit of a spoiler, but there is a part in the book where, yes, eventually our heroes do in fact break into and invade a small Nazi stronghold while it is while it is empty.
(13:48):
And they are and they are basically hunkering down and they are discovered and they basically lock themselves in.
So they're in a Nazi and a secret Nazi neo-Nazi base.
They've locked themselves in and they're being surrounded by the Nazis that this base belongs to.
And our heroes decide to shit talk them relentlessly.
(14:11):
They are looking down the barrel of a Nazi gun and they decide to do nothing but insult them.
Like, I don't think I have written better banter than this.
You know, that was a fun scene. I had I had a lot of fun with that.
And just to inform a little piece here, I'm going to be doing the voices for I am recording the audiobook currently and going through and performing some of like that scene because that is a few chapters ahead of where I'm at now.
(14:43):
But I when I was reading it, I practiced a little bit trying to figure out what kind of delivery, what kind of, you know, shmarmy-ness Carl has in that moment.
That is a fun scene. I really like I'm going to give you credit on that one.
I did enjoy the hell out of writing that. Yeah. Yep.
And that's I think that was one of the things to be distracted.
(15:04):
And I really wish that I wasn't looking at this is one of those only times that since we have started this show that I wish that I was looking at the camera instead of the screen because I keep getting like a side glimpse of the cover of your book.
Like tricks my brain into thinking there's a picture of me on the screen.
That is that is funny. Yes. And we talked about this when I sent you the copy of the book. You were like, what the fuck, dude, is this supposed to be me? And I'm like, no, honestly, I when I, you know, bought that that cover from a small design company and I all the only instructions I gave them was the main character is an FBI agent.
(15:44):
That was literally the only thing I say it said that looks like a manlier version of me. Right. Yeah. And that was the image that they that they put forth that they're like, this is your guy. And yeah, it was pretty funny.
And I don't know why that didn't like occur to me. Like I should ask Brad to do the the the audio book right then because he's on the cover already.
(16:06):
But I do remember going like, that kind of looks like Brad. All right. Especially because I mean, the whole time, like almost every modeling gig I had, they had me in a black and white tux.
Oh, so that might be you for all you know. Oh, no, that is definitely not me. That doesn't. No, no, no, no. But like, like I most of the gigs that I got for like modeling and stuff like that was just because I look good in a suit and they would put me next to a woman who was like and we were playing like husband and wife.
(16:38):
Oh, sure. Yeah.
So take away the gun. I have like 30 photo shoots of me looking like that, which has those. Yeah, that did crack me up a little bit. And it, like I said, right now, it's just really distracting because like, I know I have the right photo up.
But every once in a while, I'm like, why is there a picture of me in the peripheral on my screen that should not be there? Right.
(17:01):
Now, I do want to talk about the cover just a little bit more. Sure. Yeah. Because of how inaccurate I feel it is. Okay. Oh, yeah. Because when I read the book, I feel like Carl should look more like you than look like me. Yeah.
Because like the first paragraph that you have him described, he is like you have him described as somebody that people would like very non assuming FBI agent. Right. Yes. Yeah. That's his whole thing.
(17:29):
He's very much a melt into the background type of guy. That's kind of his whole his whole stick. He's not a he's not an authoritarian. He's an expert. That's the thing that we kind of establish. He's he's not just an FBI agent. He's a special agent. He has degrees and PhDs.
He's there as an expert, not as you know, an enforcer. And so his whole thing is that yeah, is that he's not he's not Jason Bourne. He's kind of he's kind of a molder is the idea he's seen. Yeah, you aren't split. You aren't supposed to see him coming.
(17:59):
You know, yeah. And and I thought of that too. And that was actually something I do have a writer's group on Facebook that I that I kind of, you know, discuss some of this stuff with. And the consensus from the you know, there are other indie writers, basically people who don't get published through through the big, you know, the big publishing houses were all we're all a bunch of, you know, indie self published people. The consensus was is that your cover sells your book.
(18:28):
Your cover sells your book. Worry about you don't don't worry about the accuracy of it. Worry about whether or not people are going to look at and go, do I want to read that? And so in that regard, you kind of got a Hollywood your book, your book cover a little bit.
While I was tracking down your cover so I could build the scene for the show, I wound up looking at a lot of other book covers because I just scrolled down and I saw just dozens of other ones. And oh my god, they are all way so much busier than I remember, like, book covers being when I was younger.
(19:06):
And is that like, are they get so I wanted to ask, like, have you noticed, are they getting more elaborate with the covers as time goes on?
There's an ebb and flow. I think that in the same way that if you take a look at the history of movie posters, there are trends. It's the same thing with book covers. And that's also why you know every like five years or so, you know, if there's a book that's still kind of like kind of popular, they will republish it with a new cover that fits the latest trend. And so that's
(19:39):
Yeah, because I know we you and I have had this conversation off camera about book covers and what that because I like the more simple, like there's a there's a book that I read in high school. It was called the Joker or the smoker, something like that. And the cover had two like drama masks on it.
(20:02):
Okay, title and such little information from what was on the cover brought me a million miles of intrigue beyond what I see now. Right. Yeah. Like I look at it and go. And it feel like I know the story already. It's kind of like when you see like a preview for a movie that gives too much information.
(20:23):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm more drawn to the books that have just like one letter on the cover. And there are a few like that there are some I've noticed some of my contemporaries in my book, some of them. They have like a logo picked out, you know, usually like, like take your your Hogwarts school type thing and they'll basically just have the
(20:46):
logo of the of that, you know, school or university or secret organization or whatever. That's the front of the that's the front of the book. And that's it. And if it's a series of books, then the only difference is like the background color.
You know, it looks like all the covers look exactly the same except the ones primarily read the next one's primarily blue and so on down the line. I do kind of like that. Yeah.
(21:08):
I considered that I decided against it at the last second. Basically, I wanted to go with people because this is more than anything. This is a character piece. Right. Like that to go to go back to, you know, my the X files. Like I said, there's a lot of X files influencing this.
I'm going to tell you a secret that I have never said in public before and it's probably going to get me, you know, canceled. But I kind of hated the X files.
(21:32):
But I want to get you can say, man, like, okay, why didn't you like the X files though? Like, because relatively speaking, it was.
Okay, here's the thing. What I loved about the X files and is the reason why I did in fact watch every episode was because of Mulder and Scully. They were excellent characters, very well written, great chemistry, well performed by the actors.
(21:58):
I was watching the show for them. Everything else about the show was so fucking pedantic and lame. I just I could barely stand it. But I sat through all seven seasons of that fucking show just for those two.
I think I watched maybe five episodes my entire childhood. It didn't grab me. Okay. And I mean, I was younger. But at the same time, I had a lot of friends who really loved the show. So that's not exactly a good excuse.
(22:27):
But yeah, that's the kind of the approach I take. And I felt like the series is about the characters more than any of the actual events or the stories. It's about the only episode of X files that I've really ever loved was not an episode of X files.
You know what I'm talking about?
(22:48):
Can you guess based off of that little information?
The crossover with cops.
Oh, right. I remember that one. That was pretty clever. So it was pretty clever. That was wildly hilarious. And like, like people talk about like Deadpool being like the ultimate meta. I'm sorry. That might be the most meta joke that has ever been done on TV.
(23:16):
It was pretty good. It was pretty clever. I think it's probably one of their more because they never even they never even admitted that it was a joke. They went the right the whole episode go and nobody broke character. It was awesome. Yeah.
So okay, I've been very, very vague about this. There's an episode of cops where Mulder and Scully come over and they have a crossover where they're like looking for a werewolf that the cops were supposedly supposedly chasing. Right. Yeah. And they literally did it exactly like an episode of cops. And it was so much fun. Yeah. Back to this.
(23:48):
What like, let's see. So we talked about your inspirations being what was happening in real world politics as you sat down and got in on this. Little bit in there. Yeah. Well, as the series progressed, were there any other real world politics that actually played into the other four books or the other three books that have been released so far?
Not that specifically. No. I mean, there was a lot of this comes from going back about 15 years.
(24:23):
These are ideas that you've had rolling around for a while.
Right. Yeah. Some of it even based on real life stuff, you know, like, they're the, you know, the premise of book two is something that actually happened to me. You know, that's really, yeah.
It's it's really, really like, you know, flowered up and turned into a bigger deal than it was in real life, of course. But like that was basically is the writers like, cool. Yeah. Nobody. Nobody died in the real life version. I'll say that much.
(25:00):
That's good. Yeah. But I haven't read book two yet. I'm still trying to I'm still doing the performance on book one before I move over to the second one. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, that was the thing is like when that happened even way back then, like I was thinking to myself like this could be a movie, you know, and then as I thought about it, I was like, oh, and we can go this direction, this direction. And then it became like a whole thing in my head. And there was a part of me that really thought that like, if I ever made it as a TV writer, this would be
(25:30):
like my series, this would be my supernatural would be this series. And since that never happened, I was, you know, I was like, all right, I guess I'll I'll turn it into novels instead. And so that's, you know, so here we are. Realistically, I think, for people who are trying to break into it, I think the way to go is actually to make the novels first, get some following and everything like that, because studios, they don't want to take chances. No, that's true. Yeah, nobody only want they only want to cast.
(26:00):
People who already have that come with an audience and they like they want to make stuff that already has an audience with. Yeah, yeah, people, people are always complaining like, oh, there's no new ideas in Hollywood anymore. Like, it's a shame. And it's not really a shame. It was a deliberate choice. They the studio executives have gotten together and went, all right, so we all agree no new ideas, right, right. Okay, great. Yeah, that and that's where we are now, you know, because it's, you know, a new ideas are risk and they're as much as I want as much as it does.
(26:30):
It sounds fun to agree with that. Everything everywhere all at once was not like that is not okay. I mean, you got me there. Swiss Army man. Like, there are some. Right. They are. But they're mostly like a 24 movies. Right. That's true. And to end what helped, I think, every everywhere, everything everywhere was the fact that what was it that Daniels had did just before that.
(27:00):
That was a big hit. I'm trying to remember what it was. Blanking, but and then but then you throw in Michelle Yeoh in there like they had their own name power to bring up to bring that up.
And so that was that was where the studios wouldn't take a risk on them was that, okay, these are people who have made us money before. We'll go ahead and let the idea slide. Very happy that they brought Kehoe Klon. Oh, yeah.
(27:23):
And for it like the the what are we calling it? The Quina sauce. I had not heard that before, but I love it. Yeah, I hadn't heard it either, but it is fun to say. And it was it's a hard comeback. He's suddenly everywhere. Good for him. Like, oh, my God. Yeah, the there was a story that came out. They were talking about doing a Goonies reunion.
(27:48):
Oh, my God, that would be so expensive. Every single one of them has become an A-lister now. Yeah, there's not.
Yeah. Corey.
A-lister.
I'm okay. Maybe he's not an A-lister now. I'm sorry, man. I don't think anybody under 25 years old has any idea who he is unless they happen to listen to a podcast that he shows up on.
(28:15):
You're probably right.
Like, that's the sad part, though, is everybody else. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, that was the thing is Corey, he burned up a lot faster. He got he got so much more famous, so much faster than the rest of them. That was, you know, his candle went out early. I think it's the case there.
I know that, but even to this day, I still do not understand his fame, even back then. I don't really get it because I look at all the other actors from like back then, back in that time and all this. I'm a lot more entertained by them than I was him.
(28:52):
I'm trying to think. What was the big special thing about Feldman that had everybody had him in so many things?
To my knowledge, based on the conversations that I was having with people of my own age, of my own age group and of the same kind of tastes in film and stuff like that, my understanding his draw was that he was a stone cold hottie.
(29:16):
That was that was the that was the phrase that I kept hearing coming up as people talked about him.
The girls that I hung out with and yes, I did hang out with girls growing up.
They all thought that.
(29:36):
And they all they all thought that basically it was the Corey's it was it was it was the pairing Corey Feldman and Corey Haim together was literally like.
You know, all a movie needed ever and every every girl that I knew would see that movie forever.
That was basically the like I see like footage of like Drew Barrymore wildly crushing on him and all this.
(30:01):
And I'm just like, I just sit there as confused as I could possibly be because I'm just like, wow, man, that that look is because I know what he turned into.
And it's painting everything.
Well, it's it's also that that look he was rocking that sort of like that dark hair mane thing he had going on with that in that kind of just sort of like Jersey grin with it.
(30:23):
That became very, very commonplace because of him.
He was he was kind of the first one to rock it, made it popular.
Everyone started rocking it.
And now probably by the time you're coming up, you're thinking, I don't get it.
Everyone looks like this. So that might be that I mean, that that honestly might be.
Well, OK, fair enough.
(30:44):
We'll reach out to Corey Feldman and see if he wants to play the role of Carl.
That's OK. That would that would be pretty good.
Actually, I think he would fit it quite well.
But yeah, I thought you were going with let's let's call Corey Feldman, see if he wants to come on the podcast and explain himself.
What the hell makes you think you were so popular back then, Mr.
(31:04):
Hot Stuff? Explain.
What what was your draw of all of all people?
I know there are people now that I don't really get, though, either.
But that's just the thing. Like I like my taste is not the general public's taste.
Like who I who I think is like the most beautiful people in the world.
(31:28):
No, they don't they don't get they're not the ones who actually get the wild acclaim.
I totally get what you're saying there. Yeah.
Like we both have epic crushes on Felicia Day.
Mm hmm. No, that's true. Yeah.
Why is she not considered a list?
That is a really good question.
Hilarious, dedicated, motivated, charming.
(31:51):
She she alone has kept a lot of nerd culture alive.
True. Yeah, no, that's that's right. Yeah.
No, but she is not considered a lister.
Doesn't make sense.
But if you and I were in charge, she would be.
Of of all the people that ate it on Supernatural,
she's the one that everyone is unanimously angry about.
(32:14):
Oh, Charlie. Yeah.
Oh, my God. Like like like.
They like I mean, they they're like they cleaned house on that show
like every other season where literally everyone but the Winchesters dies.
And everyone's just like, oh, I like that.
They're like, yeah, they're doing things nobody's ever done.
Like you kick it over to CW. Right. Yeah, exactly.
(32:38):
Yeah, it is not good to date or date Sam.
But pushing back through here,
when you actually do run the gambit and try to figure out
who are the actors that you would like to play these characters,
(32:58):
because you said that you put this together in mind of a TV show.
Right. Yeah. Who's the cast?
Who's your dream cast for this show?
Well, I mean, I did have that in mind a few times, but it always kind of like
that was the thing is like, I do kind of see these folks in a set age.
And I don't want to sit here and go like, ah, so and so is too old
to play this character.
That's a very Hollywood thing to do, except that, yeah, most of the people
(33:22):
I had in mind when I first came up with this are too old to play the character
now because characters are supposed to be in their 20s and 40s.
And now all those people are in their 40s and 60s.
So that's not going to work.
You know?
But I mean, yeah, now that you've said
Corey Feldman for for Carl, I'm actually on board with that.
(33:42):
I can totally don't make me regret talking to you.
Don't don't make me regret using words. Come on.
Come on. You think Corey Feldman, who he is today with his deaf leopard,
want to be looking ass is going to be able to walk on set and actually deliver?
No, probably not. I could I.
I guess it would be like if who he was back in the in the 80s and 90s
(34:05):
as prime, if you just aged that up a little bit, it would have been a lot better.
Yeah, who he is now isn't quite the right fit.
You're right.
Like, I'm sorry to knock the guy like that, but he has kind of become
a little bit of a goofball, and I cannot tell if that is intentional.
A character he's putting if he's having fun with it,
or if the dude actually believes that he's one of the top rockers of our generation.
(34:30):
I don't think he actually believes that, no.
The way he talks.
I don't know, man.
That's why it's like, I it's kind of it's kind of rough.
But OK, all right.
So Carl Corey Feldman.
Actually, I don't I honestly don't know.
I mean, that's kind of the thing is that you could just have Osric Chow be Osric.
(34:52):
Well, that would be a little on the nose.
Yes, it was fun about it.
That's why back when I was back when I was pushing
and like reaching out for gigs and everything like that,
if there was a character named Brad, I auditioned for it every time.
I know how to be a Brad.
That's.
I don't know.
What do you see as Heather?
(35:14):
As Heather.
See, I mean, like.
A younger, more mature, more mature.
Regina King probably would have been perfect.
OK, so yeah, you're talking casting this literally 30 years ago then.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
I think and part of it is, is I when I did.
What about Gina Torres?
(35:35):
Gina Torres.
Look her up.
OK, but I mean, the thing is, is that also when I did start writing it,
you know, in book format, I did kind of want to deliberately
keep that out of my mind because I wanted the, you know, I was still very angry.
I had a cast about like allowing the reader to paint the scene
(35:56):
as much as you have.
And I know it's what you wanted to do.
And I know that there are a lot of other authors that do it.
Sorry, what was the name you told me? Look up again.
I forgot Gina Torres.
Gina Torres. Oh, oh, I know her. Yes.
She also would. Yeah.
30 years ago also would have been perfect for it. Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I think I have.
(36:17):
I think I have like the right kind of persona.
Yeah. That you're that you want Heather to be, which
I'm still trying to workshop this out with him because I'm still trying
to figure out her voice for the book,
which you said Scarlett Johansson in what movie is what you kind of saw.
Ghost World. Ghost World.
Yeah. And yeah, not Scarlett Johansson's voice,
(36:38):
but specifically the voice that she has for that character.
She's got a that character has a very peculiar way of speaking.
That was kind of one of those.
I think that was the first movie I ever saw Johansson in.
And that was one of the things that made her stand out to me
was the peculiar way of speaking she had there.
I honestly thought that that was that was how she talked.
It wasn't until like the next thing I saw her and that I was like,
(36:59):
oh, she doesn't actually talk like that, you know?
And so, yeah.
So how many books do you think the series is going to go out to?
I know you've said
a certain number at one point, but I'm curious if it's still depending on.
I mean, depending on a lot, partially having to do with how well it sells.
And whether or not I want to keep working on it or start something else.
(37:22):
Partially on if I really think the story is is working the way it's going.
My thinking is somewhere between 16 to 20 books.
Yeah, I remember you saying that you had an idea of about 21 books, which
good damn.
And how like are you looking for an average length for these books?
Or are they just going to be what they're going to be?
(37:43):
They're going to be what they're going to be probably going to.
Yeah, they're going to be what they're going to be.
And in fact, book four ended up being quite a bit longer than I intended.
And that was one of the reasons why I needed to recover for so long
after finishing it was because I was like, oh, my God, what the hell did I just write?
Which with the outside world.
How magical is this place going to be?
(38:06):
And how much is the world going to remain as the world is?
More specifically, is magic only going to be
going to be in landfall or is the world itself going to change?
The world itself is going to change.
OK. And that's kind of where I'm kind of toying with things
(38:28):
is how much of the world do I want my main characters to be responsible for?
Because there are only four of them and they are only human.
Yeah, that's kind of one of those like that.
You know, that's I'm going to get to that.
But yes, it is going to.
The states are going to keep but you're only going to keep it down to these four.
Like expanding allies, things like that.
(38:50):
Yeah, there will be expanding allies.
In fact, I introduce one of the one of the future allies
is introduced in Book Three and another one in Book Four.
And these are people who like nobody from Book One.
Nobody from Book One comes back except for Carl. Yeah.
I thought I thought for sure that Burgess was going to come back.
(39:11):
He'll get mentioned here and there, but I haven't had any plans for him
beyond, you know, beyond what happened in Book One. Yeah.
OK. He might. He might, actually, because there's.
Actually, I really like that.
Burgess, I really like him. Yeah.
I totally forgot Tunder from Book One.
He actually is quite reoccurring.
(39:33):
I forgot about him for a second, and I could see from his future.
I could actually see Burgess and him get tussling at some point.
So Burgess might come back.
OK. Yeah.
That is nice, though, because the voice that I chose for Burgess,
it is one of my favorite voices, but it does take it out of me.
(39:54):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's what happens when you do three chapters in a day, man,
especially with that voice.
And I am I am using the cabbie.
Yeah, I love that voice so damn much, too.
I remember when I when I first heard it, I did tell you
I was like, hey, just so you know, and I heard you do Burgess.
So I was like, just so you know, this guy is in a lot of this book.
(40:16):
Are you sure you want to do that voice?
And you were like, no, I got it.
Well, and that's the thing.
I do. I just can't talk the next day.
I have to strategically plan out when I do that character.
So that character isn't like a huge recurring character in the series.
That's not going to be too bad.
(40:36):
Beyond that, beyond everything else that we have covered,
is there anything specific
that you want your reader to know going into the book?
What I would want them to know is that it is a slow burn.
You know, the the the main action, the main crux of this story
takes a while to happen books in, you know.
(40:57):
So if you're someone who likes to jump right into the action,
this is probably isn't going to be your kind of story.
This is a slow build.
And it is a character piece.
There are, you know, I know the the the rule of storytelling is show.
Don't tell.
I do a lot of tell don't show in the series
because it's about the interactions of the characters with each other
(41:20):
as they're they're going through this experience,
sometimes even saying this is what happened to me, you know,
and this is how I feel about it while it was happening,
explaining it to to each other.
That's the important part of the story.
And so that's what you're going into.
This is it. This is more character studies and is more about the relationships
and the dynamics between the characters instead of what is actually happening
(41:42):
in the world. Exactly. Yes.
Like like that's that's nice, though.
I mean, that because of a lot of what we are getting now,
it's all giant stakes, huge sky beams.
The world is right.
And the universe is going to end like all this stuff.
It is nice to just jump in on some interpersonal
(42:03):
interpersonal connected stories.
Mm hmm.
Then that was kind of my that was kind of my goal here is I did want to
show the importance of like, yeah, it doesn't have to be the end of the world
for it to be a good story.
It can just be your friend is your friend is having a bad day.
That can be a really, really good story if you do it right.
(42:24):
And really, I did.
You have another story that I am very, very much.
The woman with the dead husband.
Doc, this is a story that literally happened to you in your real life.
Oh, right. That one. Right. Right.
No, no. He was her fiance.
Not. Yeah. No, no. I remember you.
(42:46):
All right. Yeah.
I remember talking about that with you. Yeah. Yeah.
And you were I remember you were so mad at me that I hadn't written that already.
And I was like, OK, but that's the best thing is start crying
over thinking about a story you were just told about.
It's too good of a story to just let sit.
(43:08):
Yeah. Seriously, you're just kind of disrespecting yourself
as a creator by not doing something with that.
And I have been considering what to do about that.
How how to storeify that.
Do I want to put do I want it to be a book, a screenplay?
Do I want it to be have a part of another book, like put it in a book
(43:29):
and put it in someone's back story?
I've been kind of pondering around that a little bit.
And I think and I think I've I've kind of settled on what I'm going to do with it.
But I'm not 100 percent sure.
And it is very much a back burner thing because I have already loaded myself up.
Like, I think that might be like we were just talking before the show
about how I've kind of been in a bit of a creative paralysis.
(43:53):
And I think part of it has to do with the fact that I have given myself
too many expectations.
I have book six or book five of the of the outside world.
I planned, right?
No, not yet. Oh, that's that's the thing.
It's like I know.
Other book that you went to go.
You wound up writing like four chapters on accident.
(44:13):
Well, yeah, well, I wrote the outline on accident.
Oh, that's what it was.
Yeah. And it was OK.
And this this is a little inside baseball, folks.
So, OK, Brad, do you remember when we were back in Portland
and one of the first projects you and I started working on together
was the one right after that self portrait?
(44:36):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Oh, so what a script.
Thank you.
But yeah, I kind of, you know, first thing Brad and I ever worked on together
kind of bit me with the bug of wanting to try to be a filmmaker again
after giving up on it for a couple of years.
And so I wrote a screenplay specifically for Brad
(44:59):
for him and I and a couple of our of our other friends to work on.
And yeah, and Brad has never missed an opportunity
to compliment me on how much he loved that script.
And I appreciate that.
There is a character in that script that is also loosely based off myself.
And but in that the contents of the context of that script,
(45:22):
that guy actually is a successful writer as opposed to myself.
And what he's most famous for is a story, a book
he wrote about his own life called The Shoe Tree Fables.
Brad, I wrote the outline to The Shoe Tree Fables.
That's what I did. That's what I did.
That's what that accident. Yes.
Oh, my God. I accidentally.
(45:43):
Specifically for like three people.
Yeah, I accidentally wrote the outline to The Shoe Tree Fables.
So, yeah, that's that's awesome, though. I hope so.
Eventually, yeah.
But what like what?
Because I remember, oh, my God, I need to go back and reread Self-Portrait again.
Because he actually talked a little bit about The Shoe Tree Fables.
(46:05):
A little bit.
Like you already you've known what that story is for a long time, haven't you?
Well, yeah, like I said, it was I mean, in the same case of with
with the character in the in the in the script where he's like, it's based on my own life.
And, you know, that's why I don't write anymore,
because now my life is not worth writing about.
Like and that's the thing is like the shoot.
The even this new version, this real version, The Shoe Tree Fables is again
(46:28):
kind of based on my life in the same way that that character was based on me.
It's that sort of like continuation.
You know, it's taking what happens in Self-Portrait.
Let's just hope that that doesn't actually happen to me. Right.
Again, I'm not a magician. Oh, my God.
I became a photographer after that.
(46:51):
And the third person that that that that that you wrote that about became a painter after that.
Really, did she?
She did not. I did not know that.
She sat down at the house like you remember the the house that we had was on like 52nd
or something like that that you guys all lived at 51st or something.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She would go over and she would paint with the other on
(47:12):
like the other person who lived in that house all the time.
Literally every character that you wrote in that book, weirdly, we all went on to become those characters.
I spent four years as a photographer after after you wrote after you wrote a screenplay
where I became a photographer.
The other person was not a good like artist and they got pretty good at it.
(47:35):
That is, I apparently I think you're writing really weird super power.
People don't know tomorrow's edition.
That's way too old.
That is that is that is a deep cut.
That is a deep cut. Yeah.
I'm a little embarrassed that I remember that.
I like that movie, though.
I don't think I show show show.
(47:57):
Yeah, it was a TV show. Yeah, I never I don't think I ever even saw it.
I just remember seeing the ads for it.
I don't know.
I don't think I ever even saw it. I just remember seeing the ads for it while it was on.
But yeah.
Maybe it was a movie that got adapted into a TV show because I remember because I remember
watching one.
OK, so either I watched one episode or the movie and I thought it was awesome.
(48:20):
Well, remember back then pilot episodes were sometimes double sized episodes.
So it might have been it might have been a TV movie type thing.
It would have been a two hour first episode, probably.
That is fair.
That is fair.
I could see that. So we've got a few more because we're only going to try to keep this
down to about an hour.
OK, do you have any final thoughts that you have for what people should?
(48:47):
How did you have any final thoughts?
Do I have any final thoughts?
I mean, I don't know.
It's I've been I've been in.
I've been having trouble with this since the beginning, ever since I came out with these
books and I've had, you know, and since I'm indie and I don't have a publishing house
out there selling them for me, I got to sell them myself and all of the.
(49:11):
Is indie pendant, not in and.
Yeah.
You didn't hear how that sounded.
Did you like no, I'm indie and.
Oh, I did not hear that at all.
Wow.
I just I just wanted to.
That would have been that.
That would have been embarrassing. Yes.
(49:34):
But the.
All of the advice that I get when it comes to how to sell your independently published
stuff, they always start with, you know, identify who your target audience is.
And I can't for the life of me figure out who that is.
Like, I have no clue.
I wrote these books for myself and I don't even know who I am.
(49:58):
So like, that's the trouble I'm having.
I can see.
So I don't I don't want to sit here and go read the book.
You'll love it.
I don't know.
It'll it's a matter of taste.
This is very, very much a matter of taste.
If you like, if you like book, if you, if you two, if you two or someone who watched
the entirety of the X-Files, even though you kind of hated it, then yeah, this is the book for you.
(50:23):
So.
So here's the thing, like I said, I haven't finished performing the book yet for the audiobook,
but I have read it a couple of times.
I enjoyed it.
I am kind of a prick when it comes to stories and such.
I have picked up other friends books and I have put them down after reading the first
(50:47):
page because I'm just like, that is, I do not want to lie to somebody that I care about.
And I would rather tell them that I didn't get that.
I didn't read the book instead of telling them good job when all I want to do is yell at them.
Like I never had that problem with you.
I picked up the book.
I read it.
(51:09):
Cause I tried to bust through it to cast the characters with my own voices.
And then I wound up reading it.
That doesn't usually happen.
So the book caught me.
It wrote me in.
That fricking Nazi scene.
I laughed my ass off as I was going through that because I'm like,
I had that like moment of disbelief.
I'm like, this wouldn't fucking happen.
I'm having fun with it.
(51:30):
I don't even give a shit.
Like it was fun.
It's a fun read.
It gives you a perspective on a main character that realistically,
we have all had characters who look like me jam down our throats because
I'm the only like heroes are only allowed to be like the white guys with full hair and square jaws.
(51:54):
Right.
This is a hero of the real world.
Somebody who is intelligent, somebody who is doing their paperwork, who is paying attention,
who was just like got their nose to the grindstone and they are going after it.
I think like, even though this is a story about magic,
I feel like this one is actually more realistic than a lot of the books that I've read recently.
(52:17):
Thank you.
Just because the main character is a realistic character, the way he finds out information,
it doesn't happen upon him.
He actually seeks out the right person and then winds up getting the answer because he knew who
to ask. That is a well thought out story that has been, well, it just, it lands.
(52:43):
Well, thank you.
I swear folks, we're not doing this just so Brad can tell me how awesome I am.
I've actually tried to get him to stop, I swear, but I do appreciate it anyway.
I mean, it is what it is. It is a good read. It's an enjoyable read. I have had some of my friends
(53:03):
pick it up and they've read it. They enjoy it. And I don't know if they've went to drop the reviews,
but they have told me that they enjoyed it. They've told me some of their favorite parts.
I got a couple of cousins that Heather is both of their favorite character.
Oh, nice.
So I know book two is going to be a lot of fun for them.
(53:25):
And it has my recommendation. Keep in mind, don't go from Game of Thrones to the outside world.
Oh, for sure. For sure.
It's not the same type of thing. It's not the same type of world. The pain that you get from the
outside world, I haven't really felt any of the pain yet, but I'm guessing that's coming.
(53:46):
Yep. The hardcore stuff starts happening and maybe next book, maybe the one after, but yeah.
No, the intrigue right away going into the book from the prologue where you lined up meeting
what is going to be some of the epic villains of the story. It caught me right away. And if
(54:08):
it catches you on the prologue, I think that it is just a good way to go. It's what we all want to do
and we'll all pull it off.
Right. Yeah. Yep.
All right. So that's going to bring a close to our first bonus episode. I'm going to have a link
in the description for where you can find the book. You can also find the book on the website.
(54:29):
And for where you can find the book, you can also find the book on Amazon. But when the channel
actually does reach monetization, one of the very first things that we're going to list on the
channel for our audience to be able to buy is going to be Doc's entire series.
Yes. Signed copies, of course. But yeah, for now it's available on Amazon. You can buy it in print.
(54:53):
You can get it as a Kindle download. And if you are a Kindle Unlimited subscriber, the first three
books are available for free on Kindle Unlimited. The first three, really? Yes. Wow. Because I
feel that's here's the thing. When I discover a new TV series, I try to give it the first
(55:14):
three episodes before I decide if I want to continue with it. And even though a book is
way more than an episode, I kind of feel like I wanted to do the same thing. So I'm the book.
The first three are available for free on Kindle Unlimited. Then you can decide if you actually
want to invest extra money on it after that. And I promise it will, you know, be more than
(55:37):
than just like the first half of the series, there will be more to invest in.
Fair enough. All right. So that is going to be the Outside World Book One,
Werewolves of Landfall, written by Jonathan Enns. Our co-host, otherwise goes by Doc.
Hello, fellow humans. All right. And that's going to bring a close to our first bonus episode.
(56:00):
And we will see you later this week because season two is coming back.
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